[09:13] <eagles0513875> morning asac
[10:57] <asac> hi
[11:14] <asac> eagles0513875: not sure if you managed to get past it, but if you have modifications you need to commit them before you can push
[11:15] <asac> but i am sure i already said that a few times ;)
[11:35] <asac> kenvandine: gwibber locked my whole desktop focus wise ;) ... and no .... not sure how that works
[11:36] <asac> kenvandine: only thing i know was that the UI thread of gwibber was dead too
[11:36] <asac> kenvandine: do you know if i can send some signal to python process so it spits out the current thread dump?
[11:36] <asac> i know thats possible in java ;)
[11:37]  * asac would think any decent interpreter/VM system would have that
[11:57] <asac> kenvandine: antoher good thing would be to make gwibber dbus interface introspectable ;) ... i cannot see much in d-feet atm
[12:01]  * asac wonders if there is any chance that tbird 3 will not consume gigabytes of mem for final
[12:01] <asac> 1512m 863m  27m R   85 43.0  13:57.45 thunderbird-bin
[12:01] <asac> and i didnt even open a single mail yet ;)
[12:02] <asac> just downloads and indexes mails atm
[13:01] <asac> _Tsk_: hey. is the mem consumption of shredder considered a (fixable) issue?
[13:02] <asac> on this 2G system i had to stop everything but tbird 3 to use it without swapping
[13:03] <asac> any hint where that mem gets lost? in the indexer?
[13:03] <asac> or are you relying on "memory pressure" ... which isnt implemented on linux?
[13:32] <bdrung> asac: what do you think of av`s idea to use a uploaders.mk for the moz-ext-team?
[13:34] <asac> how would that work?
[13:34] <asac> bdrung: ?
[13:34] <asac> ${uploaders} ?
[13:35]  * asac wonders if that works when producing sources?
[13:36] <bdrung> asac: look at e.g. brasero
[13:36] <bdrung> asac: there is a control.in file containing "Uploaders: @GNOME_TEAM@"
[13:39] <asac> please no control.in
[13:39] <asac> rather adding folks manually
[13:40] <_Tsk_> asac:  it should
[13:40] <asac> but i will think about it. so far we have you as uploader and andrea. not sure how many more we will get ;)
[13:40] <_Tsk_> specially if gloda is involved
[13:41] <asac> _Tsk_: what should?
[13:41] <asac> get fixed?
[13:41] <asac> or indexer is the culprit?
[13:41] <_Tsk_> we should use so much memry like we do sometime while indexing
[13:41] <asac> heh ... now: "indexing 888.... of 887 ... (106% complete) ;)
[13:42] <asac> _Tsk_: so tbird as mem requirement (minimum 2gb, recommended 4gb)?
[13:42] <asac> has
[13:43] <_Tsk_> no absolutely not. Just since two weeks gloda starts inedxing and that consumes memory - once indexes it gets down to lower values and if it doesn't then file a bug
[13:43] <asac> _Tsk_: right. but it practically mean that tbird 3 will not be usable on any system < 2gb
[13:43] <asac> why does the indexer takes so much space?
[13:44] <asac> imo there should be potential if its really the indexer
[13:44] <_Tsk_> I don't know
[13:44] <asac> but will check ... once it has finished i will restart
[13:44] <_Tsk_> k
[13:46] <asac> 108% complete ;)
[13:46] <asac> seems it doesnt like that i didnt sync my mails for ages ;)
[14:36] <mac_v> asac: hei , got a min
[14:37] <mac_v> why is the edit connections > wired and the DSL tab using the icon from device  , while the wireless and the broadband are using icons from status
[14:37] <mac_v> *devices folder  .... *status folder
[14:40] <asac> mac_v: we use nm- icons ... theme ships links for some and maybe not for others
[14:41] <asac> there is some best-approach tweakage in the theme ... dont ask me what the current status is ;)
[14:41] <mac_v> asac:  the stuff is messed up :(... the nm- icons are not used for wired connections :(
[14:42] <mac_v> it is used for wireless only
[14:42] <asac> let me check in code
[14:42] <mac_v> let me explain the problem
[14:42] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/278750/
[14:42] <asac> thats what is loaded in code
[14:43] <asac> if the icon used does not have nm- ... prefix
[14:43] <asac> then there is a link shipped in theme or something
[14:43] <asac> so you wont see it in strace
[14:44] <mac_v> asac: ok , , what icon is used in the edit connections?
[14:44] <mac_v> the wired tab
[14:44] <mac_v> and for dsl
[14:45] <mac_v> we need to fix those for humanity and I'm really stupmed :(
[14:45] <mac_v> stumped*
[14:45] <asac> find /usr/share/icons/Humanity/ | grep nm- | pastebinit
[14:45] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/278752/
[14:46] <mac_v> asac: hehe , i know the icons .. i did them ;p
[14:46] <mac_v> i dont know which icon is used in the tab :(
[14:46] <mac_v> it shows a wrong icons , we want to make it use a color icon ,
[14:47] <asac>         ICON_LOAD(list->wired_icon, "nm-device-wired"); ICON_LOAD(list->wireless_icon, "nm-device-wireless"); ICON_LOAD(list->wwan_icon, "nm-device-wwan"); ICON_LOAD(list->vpn_icon, "nm-vpn-standalone-lock"); ICON_LOAD(list->unknown_icon, "nm-no-connection");
[14:47] <asac> sorry
[14:47] <asac> let me paste
[14:47] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/278756/
[14:47] <asac> those are the ones in the connection-editor
[14:48] <asac> mac_v: so the standalone lock
[14:48] <asac> /usr/share/icons/Humanity/apps/24/nm-vpn-standalone-lock.svg
[14:48] <asac> /usr/share/icons/Humanity/apps/22/nm-vpn-standalone-lock.svg
[14:48] <asac> for the VPN tab
[14:48] <mac_v> thats no probs
[14:48] <asac> well. thats currently the same as the wired
[14:48] <mac_v> the wired and the DSL are using a wrong icon :(
[14:48] <asac> please make that look different
[14:49] <asac> the wired is nm-device-wired
[14:49] <asac> mac_v: what i con are you seeing?
[14:49] <asac> what do you expect?
[14:49] <mac_v> let me get you a screenshot
[14:49] <asac> kiwii fixed it to be not the pacman ghost anymore ;)
[14:49] <mac_v> asac: well we are not using human now ;p
[14:49] <mac_v> as default
[14:50] <asac> anyway ... would be precious if you also add the lock to the bottom right for vpn
[14:50] <asac> like it was before ;)
[14:50] <mac_v> asac: just corrected the vpn bug :)
[14:50] <asac> great
[14:50] <asac> please get me screen
[14:50] <mac_v> but lock is now above... i dont use vpn :(
[14:50] <mac_v> nor a wired connection :(
[14:51] <asac> so for me /usr/share/icons/Humanity/status/22/nm-device-wired.svg and /usr/share/icons/Humanity/devices/22/nm-device-wired.svg are identical
[14:51] <asac> mac_v: please put the lock to the lower right
[14:51] <asac> thats how its overlayed
[14:51] <asac> by nm
[14:52] <mac_v> asac: could you pull from and test it> $bzr branch lp:humanity
[14:52] <asac> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/22x22/apps/nm-vpn-lock.png
[14:52] <mac_v> yeah noticed that
[14:52] <asac> no ;) ... today is weekend ;) and i am about to go out for afternoon action ;)
[14:52] <mac_v> ;p
[14:52] <asac> so ... i see /usr/share/icons/Humanity/status/22/nm-device-wired.svg /usr/share/icons/Humanity/devices/22/nm-device-wired.svg
[14:53] <asac> for wired
[14:53] <asac> in the tray and in the editor
[14:53] <mac_v> asac: can we make the tray and the tab use different icons PLS
[14:53] <mac_v> the UX team wants greyscale
[14:53] <mac_v> icons
[14:53] <asac> unsure
[14:54] <mac_v> but this same greyscale icon is used in the Tab... thats the whole problem
[14:54] <asac> which icon should be used instead?
[14:54] <mac_v> just a sec
[14:54] <asac> mac_v: please use the tower approach for wwan
[14:55] <mac_v> i didnt understand
[14:55] <asac> maybe make the left tower higher and show a signal or something ;)
[14:55] <asac> or look at the tower used by NM
[14:55] <asac> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/22x22/apps/nm-device-wwan.png
[14:56] <mac_v> ah.. ;)
[14:56] <asac> but check with kiwii who did some work on that
[14:56] <mac_v> sure, that icon is in the TODO list...
[14:56] <asac> he gave me different tower icons for expressing signal strength which i am trying to get upstream
[14:56] <asac> mac_v: if you do that remember that you need the same signal steps that wireless has
[14:56] <asac> full, 75, 50, 25 and 00
[14:57] <mac_v> asac: rigth now i have assigned both wireless and wwan the same icon... a monitor with a wireless signal
[14:57] <asac> that monitor looked more like a station to me
[14:57] <asac> ;)
[14:58] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[14:58] <asac> which made me think that we just need to make it bigger for the wwan one
[14:58] <asac> so users see: its WIDE area Wireless
[14:58] <asac> but not my decision
[14:58] <asac> i am only caring about upstream icons ;)
[14:58] <mac_v> :)
[14:59] <mac_v> asac: could you change the panel to use > network-wired.svg
[14:59] <mac_v> instead of device
[14:59] <asac> do you agree that a heart is good for emblem-favorite? shouldnt that be the practical standard used by firefox, gmail etc. -> a star?
[14:59] <asac> for me its more like emblem-love
[15:00] <mac_v> asac: changed ;)
[15:00] <asac> mac_v: that will mean we get endless diff to upstream
[15:00] <asac> mac_v: the star?
[15:00] <mac_v> that was added by another member of the team , now i'v changed
[15:00] <mac_v> yeah
[15:00] <asac> cool
[15:00] <asac> now convince gnome to do the same
[15:00] <asac> where is that supposed to be filed?
[15:00] <asac> ;)
[15:00] <mac_v> andreason
[15:01] <asac> http://identi.ca/notice/10771731
[15:01] <asac> mac_v: cool. so maybe having those hearts in nm applet for a day helped ;)
[15:01] <mac_v> yeah.... we changed mainly because they appeared there ;)
[15:02] <mac_v> BTW it uses a very large icons :/
[15:02] <mac_v> it could be smaller
[15:02] <asac> i dont think that we want different icons for applet and connection-editor ... users already have a hard time to understand what those mean
[15:02] <asac> and keeping them in sync everywhere can only avoid confusion
[15:03] <asac> for instance: they wonder all the time what that icon on the tray means ... they open "configure network" and then they see the same icon with a name next to it on the tab
[15:03] <mac_v> asac: the problem is all the "device" icons are now used in the editor... but for wireless and broadband... the icon labels dont have device
[15:03] <mac_v> so it would be better if we used the icon without the device label in the panel too
[15:03] <asac> mac_v: not no sure what you mean
[15:04] <mac_v> wireless use nm-signal-*
[15:04] <asac> thats just signal. yes
[15:04] <mac_v> same with vpn nm-vpn-*
[15:04] <asac> i dont see the benefit of renaming everything to nm-wired etc.
[15:04] <asac> at least not for you
[15:04] <mac_v> asac: its not for me :)
[15:04] <asac> it doesnt change the fact that theicons in tray should be the same used in the connection editor tab
[15:04] <asac> you == for your problem
[15:05] <asac> so if i look in the connection editor i see all the icons that would be used in tray (minus vpn bug)
[15:06] <mac_v> asac: hmm....  the only problem is now , the icons on the panel are greyscale... but would that suite the tabs?
[15:06] <asac> well. thats the consequence imo.
[15:06] <mac_v> thats  , the problem
[15:06] <asac> same icons
[15:06] <mac_v> exactly!
[15:06] <asac> and as i said thats a feature
[15:07] <mac_v> if the icons are differnt labels , we could make color ones for those
[15:07] <mac_v> but similar to the panel
[15:08] <asac> code base wise that means that you have to duplicate all icons for try and editor
[15:08] <mac_v> asac: the icon already exists... not a new icon
[15:08] <mac_v> it is just not used :(
[15:08] <asac> it means the icons are decoupled
[15:08] <asac> so themeres can mess this up arbitrarily
[15:09] <mac_v> asac: just because others might mess it up... do we not do this :(
[15:09] <asac> yes. but code base would be special cased just because we want a greyscale thing in the tray
[15:10] <asac> but i will think about it.
[15:10] <mac_v> asac: actually the code base is wrong... :( .. pls consider it
[15:10] <asac> all this needs to be done upstream too if its done
[15:11] <asac> code base isnt really wrong. you cannot say that all apps should use different icons
[15:11] <asac> for instance
[15:11] <asac> or if you use the same icon at different places you should use differnt names
[15:11] <asac> just because some themer might want to change a icon you ment to be the same everywhere to be different at some places
[15:11] <asac> feels a bit like a lack of gtk theme feature
[15:12] <asac> like: remapping icon names for certain widgets
[15:12] <mac_v> why i said wrong is .... the editor using nm-device-* is correct... but the tray should not do that , only for the wired , if it is doing so , it should do same for all tray icons
[15:12] <asac> i know that you want it to use different icons
[15:12] <asac> but i dont understand the reasoning
[15:13] <asac> why shouldnt it use nm-device icons if it displays the main device status there?
[15:14] <mac_v> the reason is > the wired label is not consistent with the labels in the tray , it could have just been a symlink to the device icon
[15:14] <asac> i dont understand what that means
[15:14] <mac_v> hmm...
[15:15] <bdrung> asac: ${uploaders} would probably not work
[15:15] <asac> how is it not consistent? the one in tray is nm-device-wired. the -signal icons are special and should have been named nm-device-wifi-signal... or something
[15:15] <asac> but that wouldnt help you
[15:15] <asac> as the icons used are still the same everywhere
[15:17] <mac_v> when we label icons... all icons of the same location have the same name , but different appends.. so it makes life easy for all... when one icon uses a different label it is the odd one out
[15:18] <mac_v> asac: so the tray icon for wired should hav been "nm-device-wired-active"
[15:19] <mac_v> and for the disconnected it should have been "nm-device-wired-disconnected"
[15:19] <asac> there is no disconnected icon
[15:19] <asac> we only have device icons
[15:19] <asac> and no-connection
[15:20] <asac> and a few signal strength for wifi
[15:20] <asac> those should be renamed as i already said
[15:20] <asac> to nm-device-wifi-signal-xxx
[15:20] <asac> but i understand what you mean ... i think
[15:20] <mac_v> yeah... but now wireless has its own discaooected icons
[15:20] <asac> and i think i might be able to at least make a point upstream now
[15:21] <asac> mac_v: right. thats atm just accidentially ;)
[15:21] <asac> i mean: the purpose was not to have different icons for tray and editor
[15:21] <mac_v> the network.. uses a huge load of icons :(
[15:21] <asac> but just to have signal icons ;)
[15:22] <asac> but i think i can argue upstream that the tray is not a simple device icon
[15:22] <asac> but rather a device icon with status indication
[15:22] <mac_v> \o/
[15:22] <mac_v> that would be great
[15:22] <asac> especially now that we will land different signal strength for wwan
[15:22] <asac> i can try to use that as a vehicle to clean this model up
[15:22] <mac_v> ;)
[15:23] <asac> cannot promiss it of course :)
[15:23] <mac_v> asac: when will this clean up be discussed ?
[15:23] <asac> but i am a bit optimistic
[15:23] <mac_v> ;)
[15:24] <mac_v> ie: >could it land before karmic?
[15:24] <asac> once i start working on the signal strength for wwan
[15:24] <asac> thats hopefully during beta freeze already
[15:24] <asac> yes ... so if i can convince him then i assume it would land
[15:24] <asac> before
[15:24] <asac> but time is not really long before release
[15:24] <mac_v> yeah :(
[15:24] <asac> and the more i start doing lengthy discussions the less time we have to fix real bugs
[15:24] <asac> like modem regressions etc.
[15:24] <mac_v> asac: could we make the change in our end... for now ;)
[15:25] <mac_v> if dicsussions dont go well ;)
[15:25] <asac> i wont do that if there is no chance of landing it upstream.
[15:25] <asac> but first we have to hear the arguments
[15:25] <asac> i wouldnt be too pessimistic
[15:25] <asac> in case discssion shows that he is in general for this cleanup then we can prepatch it
[15:26] <mac_v> :) that would be nice
[15:28] <mac_v> asac: thanks for considering this....
[15:28] <asac> sorry for being so slow ;)
[15:28] <asac> understanding your point
[15:29] <mac_v> nah.. i find it hard to type my ideas ;p
[15:29] <mac_v> ideas/point
[15:30] <asac> mac_v: so expect that there will be use for nm-device-wwan-active (for modems that dont have signal feature) and nm-device-wwan-signal-xx
[15:30] <asac> e.g. dont get busted if suddenly the wwan icon needs signal strength
[15:30] <mac_v> sure thats no prob
[15:31] <asac> mac_v: the greyscale wifi signal strength has imo too tiny bars ... did you consider to make them one point bigger?
[15:31] <asac> its not really easy to recognize the strenght
[15:31] <mac_v> asac: yeah , but that didnt turn out well :/ ... also the colors are now corrected to make them dark
[15:32] <mac_v> the problem was , we never expected Ubuntu to use Humanity as the default theme...
[15:32] <mac_v> and UNR wanted the icons light
[15:32] <mac_v> so hence the icons were light
[15:32] <mac_v> now we are making 2 themes ;)
[15:32] <asac> prob is that we wanted to make the icons for no active APs insensitive like: http://people.canonical.com/~asac/nm08-applet/nm08-wifi-connected-final.png
[15:33] <asac> but thats hardly recognizable with the new icons
[15:33] <asac> so i had patch that sensitive part out
[15:33] <asac> (thats an old screenshot ... so dont take everything for granted)
[15:33] <mac_v> asac: its not prob... you could have mentioned it earlier ;)
[15:33] <asac> well.
[15:33] <mac_v> or even now if you want a new icon is not a prob
[15:33] <asac> thats landing as we speak ;)
[15:34] <asac> i dont want a new icon, but rather one that is recognizable if its set to "insensitive" in gtk
[15:34] <mac_v> ah
[15:34] <asac> if thats too hard ... then i can try to get that out of upstream
[15:36] <asac> anyway. i am out now again ... but was good to talk about ... so see you monday
[15:36] <mac_v> asac: bye .. ;) thanks again
[16:04] <BUGabundo> hey guys
[16:05] <BUGabundo> asac: I agree with you ! the heart sucks :)
[16:08] <BUGabundo> asac: fta: I also solved most of my FF 3.7 probs and crashs
[16:08] <BUGabundo> darn hard too
[16:08] <BUGabundo> stupid Xmarks add on
[16:08] <BUGabundo> it would only crash FF *after* it tried to login to their servers
[16:08] <BUGabundo> that's why it was to hard to track down
[16:32] <mac__v> BUGabundo: heart will be fixed soon ;)
[16:32] <BUGabundo> YAY
[17:16] <BUGabundo> bbl. now time to have some fun :P #nortweeters