[00:01] <cowbud> i.e. you don't have this do you want to install it.
[00:36] <creative1412> guys what happend to the keying
[00:37] <creative1412> 10min ago i did an update and ubuntu almost dead
[00:37] <creative1412> i got to a shell to encribe the home dir :S
[00:51] <pwnguin> crap happens
[00:52] <DanaG> argh, can't tab-complete paths with spaces!
[00:53] <pwnguin> http://rss.sciam.com/sciam/60secsciencepodcast <-- does this podcast work on anyone else's rhythmbox?
[00:54] <pwnguin> i had someone on answers.lp.net claim it did, but i think they're smoking something -- they tried to blame it on codecs
[00:55] <Nattgew> pwnguin: it adds it but the tracks fail to download
[00:56] <pwnguin> okay, that's what i get.
[01:01] <pwnguin> Nattgew: if you like, https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/83874
[01:03] <Nattgew> thanks
[01:09] <pwnguin> 19:09:12) [0x8f0c408] [download_file_info_cb] rb-podcast-manager.c:735: file info query failed: HTTP Client Error: Forbidden
[01:23] <urthmover> does anyone else have strange adobe flash stuff happening ...like being unable to fast forward a youtube video and buttons on the embedded player not functioning?
[01:23] <urthmover> I'm using karmic 64bit  and the libflash*.so  flash 10a I believe
[01:24] <CarlFK> is this why my display is 800x600?  (==) No monitor specified for screen "Builtin Default trident Screen 0".;         Using a default monitor configuration.
[01:25] <drs305> urthmover: I just went to youtube and all the buttons worked fine for me. Alpha 10, 64-bit
[01:26] <urthmover> hmm odd drs305
[01:26] <urthmover> drs305: I'm on Alpha 10 64bit as well
[01:26] <urthmover> and just cleaned up and reinstall the flash.so
[01:27] <DanaG> weird... Wine now claims to have openal support... but I sure don't see it.
[01:28] <DanaG> I Wine rightmark3dsoundbench, and it doesn't list any OpenAL devices at all!
[01:37] <CarlFK> (--) TRIDENT(0): TFT Panel 1024x768 found
[01:38] <CarlFK> TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1024x768" (hsync out of range)
[01:38] <pwnguin> alpha 10?
[01:38] <pwnguin> did i miss something?
[01:39] <CarlFK> today's daily
[01:40] <XVampireX> Hi
[01:41] <drs305> pwnguin: No, we were discussing Flash. hehe
[01:42]  * Twigathy arghs c_c
[01:42] <Twigathy> apparently grub2 doesn't like the "nfsroot" option in a kernel line?!
[01:42] <XVampireX> Can anyone please help me with this?: http://pastebin.ca/1580835
[01:43] <XVampireX> I'm trying to upgrade to karmic koala
[01:44] <XVampireX> Any chance of help?
[01:45] <tormod> CarlFK, the fallback values for the sync ranges are very conservative, that's why you get 800x600. Older defaults were more generous and let 1024x768 through. There is no EDID, I presume? File a bug please.
[01:45] <XVampireX> Nevermind, Aptitude (shell) helped me
[01:49] <XVampireX> hmm, apt-get install what? :P
[01:59] <DanaG> argh, the Ubuntu wine 1.1.30 package doesn't have  openal support.
[02:00] <pwnguin> it also doesn't have libstc++ 5
[02:00] <pwnguin> adios, UT
[02:07] <kklimonda> libstdc++ is such a pita.. :/
[02:23] <DBO> anyone here running karmic latest wanna help confirm a bug
[02:23] <DBO> its relatively easy
[02:24] <wastrel> i have koala
[02:25] <DBO> install inotail
[02:25] <DBO> and do
[02:25] <DBO> inotail -f ~/.gtk-bookmarks
[02:25] <DBO> and add a new bookmark in nautilus
[02:25] <DBO> does inotail see the change
[02:27] <wastrel> the answer is no
[02:27] <wastrel> and yet when i cat the file, the bookmark is there
[02:28] <wastrel> and now i have inotail hogging disk space on my computer :]
[02:28] <DanaG> hmm, is it appending to the file, or completely rewriting it?
[02:28] <DanaG> It's possible the file itself is replaced, and inotail is referring to the old file that no longer exists.
[02:28] <DBO> its probably completely rewriting it
[02:28] <wastrel> that sounds like something nautilus would do
[02:29] <DBO> which makes it not a bug but hugely annoying
[02:29] <DBO> GIO does it
[02:30] <DBO> DanaG, thanks for pointing that out
[02:44] <kklimonda> huh, anyone else hear a lot of "popping" from speakers lately?
[02:44] <thiebaude> kklimonda, not mine
[02:45] <thiebaude> just upgraded 1 hr ago
[02:48] <kklimonda> dtchen: how can I debug a "pop" sound (I can't describe it in a better way) I get?
[02:49] <kklimonda> dtchen:  I'm not sure if it's related to power_save=10 in any way but I haven't heard it a week ago so it's a new issue (for me at least)
[02:49] <bjsnider> he appears tobe away from his computer
[02:49] <kklimonda> as always lately ;/
[03:28] <dk> hello people
[03:28] <dk> i have the bug with agpgart
[03:28] <dk> any idea about?
[03:29] <Amaranth> DKcross: You mean the one where you end up with no 2D/3D acceleration in xorg?
[03:35] <oldude67> hey, i just did a update and safe-upgrade and it is trying to get rid of all my gnome desktop,now is that normal or what..i aborted the upgrade.
[03:37] <Nattgew> oldude67: what do you mean by gettintg rid of the gnome desktop? what exactly is it trying to remove?
[03:37] <oldude67> hold on ill paste bin it.
[03:37] <DKcross> Amaranth: yes
[03:38] <DKcross> Amaranth:  any idea?
[03:38] <oldude67> http://pastebin.com/m15fbb1c1
[03:38] <Amaranth> DKcross: I know a workaround but not a fix
[03:39] <DKcross> Amaranth: oh you are of develop team?
[03:40] <Amaranth> DKcross: More desktop than kernel though :)
[03:40] <Nattgew> oldude67: it looks like you have some KDE installed... that may be why it's trying to remove Gnome stuff. But it's not removing Gnome entirely, just some programs. You can go back and install them after the upgrade if you need them.
[03:40] <DKcross> Amaranth: ok, thanks for your support man
[03:41] <Amaranth> DKcross: You don't want the workaround?
[03:41] <Amaranth> oldude67: I wouldn't
[03:41] <oldude67> Nattgew, well i dont actually use the gnome desktop just a lot of programs from gnome so i just installed the whole desktop.
[03:41] <johnrobertt> can anyone tell me what kernel karmic is currently running?
[03:41] <oldude67> Amaranth, im not going to.
[03:42] <Amaranth> Oh, I see
[03:42] <Nattgew> johnrobertt: 2.6.13-11
[03:42] <Nattgew> I mean 31
[03:42] <Amaranth> oldude67: Those are getting removed because you removed ubuntu-desktop
[03:42] <DKcross> Amaranth: how?
[03:42] <johnrobertt> thanks Nattgew
[03:42] <oldude67> Amaranth, i never removed any desktops.
[03:42] <Amaranth> oldude67: So aptitude sees that nothing depends on them and wants to remove them for you
[03:42] <johnrobertt> cool, 31 has the support I need
[03:42] <johnrobertt> :)
[03:43] <oldude67> the only thing i did is add the lxde desktop cause of low amount of memory.
[03:43] <Amaranth> DKcross: edit /etc/initramfs-tools/modules and add intel_agp then another line with i915
[03:43] <Amaranth> oldude67: If you use lxde but GNOME and KDE programs you don't save any memory
[03:44] <oldude67> well actually i only use a couple and not all the time, they dont run constant.
[03:44] <Amaranth> DKcross: Then update-initramfs -u
[03:44] <Amaranth> DKcross: that one needs sudo
[03:44] <oldude67> so when computer is idle it only uses about 60 meg of ram.
[03:44] <Amaranth> oldude67: Do you use Firefox?
[03:45] <oldude67> Amaranth, no i usually use opera.
[03:45] <Amaranth> ok then
[03:45] <Amaranth> oldude67: You clearly don't need our help, you seem to know what you're doing :)
[03:45] <Amaranth> (plus I only support GNOME users)
[03:46] <oldude67> Amaranth, if i had enough ram i would probably use gnome. maybe next week when i get paid again.
[03:46] <Amaranth> oldude67: Do you use compiz with LXDE?
[03:47] <oldude67> Amaranth, nope it would really bog down the system i only have 591 megs of ram installed after video.
[03:48] <Amaranth> oldude67: Compiz doesn't use RAM, it uses Video RAM
[03:48] <oldude67> Amaranth, my video is onboard intel.
[03:48] <Amaranth> And how much of that it uses depends on your GPU, driver, and how many windows you use
[03:48] <Amaranth> oldude67: Ok so compiz shouldn't use much video RAM either
[03:49] <DKcross> Amaranth: ok and now?
[03:49] <Amaranth> DKcross: reboot
[03:49] <oldude67> Amaranth, i havent tried it now that they installed a new driver for me in the updates i got the other day.
[03:49] <DKcross> i cant start gnome.. u know.
[03:49] <DKcross> Amaranth: ok,
[03:50] <DKcross> Amaranth: if i add the module intel-agp gnome start
[03:50] <Amaranth> DKcross: heh
[03:50] <DKcross> but without 2d and 3d
[03:50] <oldude67> i turned on compiz and desktop affects...ill see if it makes a difference.
[03:50] <DKcross> Amaranth:  you know?
[03:51] <Amaranth> DKcross: Yeah, you need to unload intel_agp and i915 then load them again in the right order
[03:52] <Amaranth> DKcross: which is why you need to reboot
[03:52] <DKcross> yes i add th inte-agp to backlist and remove from modules
[03:52] <DKcross> i will restart wait
[03:54] <oldude67> Amaranth, so why would it want to delete the gnome settings if i never tried to remove any of the desktops i have installed?
[03:55] <Amaranth> oldude67: the {u} means nothing depends on them
[03:55] <Amaranth> oldude67: So an upgrade must have removed ubuntu-desktop
[03:55] <oldude67> i see , ok thanks
[03:57] <webbb82_> the ubuntu one synch daemon is killing my system preformance , on system monitor it says 99% cpu  and its not doing snything
[03:58] <dk__> Amaranth:  sorry but nothing
[03:58] <Amaranth> dk__: no idea then
[03:58] <spirit-sight> can evolotion be removed with out effecting other programs?
[03:58] <DKcross> but you have this bug?
[03:58] <webbb82_> anyo ne els notice that ubuntu one synch daemon is hogging all the resoures
[03:59] <Amaranth> DKcross: Apparently I don't have the same bug, no
[03:59] <Nattgew> webbb82_: I had a lot of problems with that
[03:59] <webbb82_> Nattgew: what did u do about it
[04:00] <Nattgew> webbb82_: uninstalled it   ;)
[04:00] <DKcross> i cant understand this bug
[04:00] <DKcross> :) why agpgart fail..
[04:00] <DKcross> Amaranth:  sorry but, u know what is apparmor?
[04:00] <webbb82_> would it be sudo rm ubuntu-one
[04:01] <Nattgew> webbb82_: I did a sudo aptitude purge ubuntuone-client
[04:01] <DKcross> i have other bug, with apparmor and firefox
[04:02] <Amaranth> DKcross: Yeah, apparmor is a security framework like selinux
[04:02] <Amaranth> DKcross: That's not a bug, it's intentionally not loading the firefox one because it slows down the boot
[04:02] <Nattgew> webbb82_: but you reminded me I've intended to try it out again, so I'm installing now...
[04:02] <DKcross> ok i understand i know a bit of SElinux
[04:02] <DKcross> ohh ok Amaranth thanks, now i know
[04:02] <webbb82_> maybe i have a old version
[04:05] <DKcross> Amaranth: i have acer aspire one, i rember that have intel g945
[04:06] <Amaranth> DKcross: gm965 here, that might be it
[04:06] <DKcross> you have the same?
[04:07] <DKcross> ah ok
[04:07] <DKcross> gm 965
[04:07] <oldude67> DKcross, i have the same video, what seems to be happening?
[04:08] <DKcross> sorry i cant understand, my english is like baby :\ .. what do you mean?
[04:08] <DKcross> oldude67: ?
[04:08] <DKcross> you have the same, but the other?
[04:08] <oldude67> DKcross, im running the same video card as you, what is the problem?
[04:08] <DKcross> ah ok
[04:09] <DKcross> well... i cant start the video, between  start and gnome is the problem
[04:09] <DKcross> with the module agpgart
[04:10] <oldude67> hold on a sec and let me see if i can find the fix i used that i added to grub.
[04:10] <Amaranth> probably nomodeset
[04:10] <DKcross> the problem is the grub?
[04:11] <DKcross> i cant update the grub and  one more time write update-initrams
[04:12] <DKcross> ready
[04:12] <leftyfb> so I have karmic installed on a machine at work. Starting on Friday after some updates the grub splash was just a single b&w ubuntu logo in the middle of a black background then it went right to gdm. This looked really nice. This weekend I installed karmic on a desktop and laptop at home but neither show that but do show a bunch of txt on the screen while booting , then to gdm. Any ideas?
[04:13] <oldude67> DKcross, take a look at this post. it might help. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1221654
[04:13] <DKcross> oldude67:  i cant, i dont have server x running
[04:13] <DKcross> :{
[04:14] <Amaranth> leftyfb: usplash is disabled unless you use encrypted disks (because then usplash has to ask for the password)
[04:14] <Amaranth> leftyfb: The idea is for X/gdm to start fast enough to not need usplash anymore although this is not really happening
[04:14] <leftyfb> Amaranth: I don't have an encrypted disk at work
[04:15] <leftyfb> the usplash is much nicer than the cryptic txt on the screen during boot. Most people would think something was wrong
[04:15] <hifi> I did, actually
[04:15] <DKcross> for me karmic is more slow that jaunty
[04:16] <hifi> I was pretty sure something was broken when I saw upstart booting stuff instead of eye candy
[04:16] <DKcross> but I'm not sure if because i have bugs with intel
[04:17] <hifi> so, should upgrade from jaunty to karmic work?
[04:17] <Amaranth> DKcross: It's slower in general to boot
[04:17] <webbb82_> any luck with ubuntu one  mine still is eating all my cpu
[04:17] <Amaranth> DKcross: Unless you have an SSD
[04:17] <arand> Does anyone here know if it's possible to force reinstalltion of libc6 on a seriously broken system using a chroot (seems like dpkg is in a state os mess as well) so could you somehow use the dpkg on the "host" system?
[04:17] <Amaranth> webbb82_: just kill it
[04:17] <mjbrooks> Amaranth, it's a nice idea in theory, but recent updates have slowed my boot from ~0:30 to ~!:10
[04:17] <Amaranth> leftyfb: I imagine usplash will be back on by RC
[04:17] <leftyfb> Amaranth: how do I enable it? It's already installed by default
[04:17] <Amaranth> mjbrooks: Don't go by what bootchart says, it is hacked to run 45 seconds after gdm starts
[04:18] <Amaranth> leftyfb: I forget
[04:18] <mjbrooks> Amaranth, I'm not, I'm counting it
[04:18] <DKcross> well... but is more slow that jaunty
[04:19] <hifi> here goes nothing, from jaunty to karmic
[04:28] <cowbud> you shall DIE
[04:30] <hifi> I shall?
[04:31] <cowbud> eh probably not
[04:32] <maddhat> is there really a significant boot time decreast noticed in karmic?
[04:32] <hifi> I hope my desktop wont freeze during upgrade
[04:32] <hifi> it has a bad habit to do so with synaptics/update manager
[04:33] <cowbud> maddhat: do you boot constantly?
[04:35] <maddhat> cowbud: ya.. on my laptop
[04:35] <spirit-sight> I get a error of apparm /disabled: fire-fox 3.5 or something like this when I boot, is this suppose to be there and if not how do I fix the issue
[04:36] <cowbud> maddhat: sleep doesn't work?
[04:36] <spirit-sight> some thing about profile
[04:36] <DKcross> spirit-sight: me too, but Amaranth  say, this is not bug is normal..
[04:37] <spirit-sight> my other question is why does Grub take as long as the system to boot ?
[04:37] <DKcross> me too!:o spirit-sight  what is your computer, i have acer aspire one
[04:38] <spirit-sight> from the time it says loading grub to the menu it takes as long as from hiting the option to the time it brings the desktop up
[04:38] <spirit-sight> HP
[04:38] <maddhat> cowbud: sometimes, but sleep can be annoying because half the time wifi wont kick back on and even doing it manually takes about 20 seconds to work its magic. so sometimes i prefer rebooting. got an answer to the original question?
[04:39] <DKcross> spirit-sight: i think that is more slow that jaunty
[04:40] <Amaranth> maddhat: My boot time doubled in karmic
[04:40] <maddhat> Amaranth: darn :-/
[04:40] <Amaranth> Jaunty would get to X (end of the boot) in 15-17 second while Karmic will get to X in the same amount of time but is still booting at that point so gdm shows up later
[04:40] <DKcross> i think that karmic boot two times
[04:41] <Amaranth> and the total boot time is like 30 seconds
[04:41] <webbb82> ok i need some advice im useing cairo dock and when i log out and then back in cairo dock will start but it is invisable i can right click onn it to get the menu but i have to close it the reopen to see it
[04:41] <maddhat> Amaranth: i see. what hardware is that on?
[04:41] <DKcross> for me xsplashy is the problem:S
[04:42] <Amaranth> maddhat: Macbook4,1
[04:48] <Nattgew> can I install grub to a hard drive I'm running from or do I have to do it from a livecd?
[04:49] <pwnguin> it would probably be wise to have a rescue disc around
[04:52] <Nattgew> well I have two installations of karmic on two partitions... and grub looks at the grub.cfg on the wrong partition...
[04:54] <dtchen> kklimonda: depends when you hear the pop
[04:56] <kklimonda> dtchen: few seconds after I stop playing music, then again, again and again when I start playing again.. the pops in between are irregular and may be that something just plays some silent/non-existent sound
[04:57] <Nattgew> is there any way to change which partition grub looks to for its config?
[04:58] <kklimonda> dtchen: yes, yay me and my awesome audio triaging skills ;}
[04:58] <kklimonda> i seriously feel like an idiot when it comes to audio on linux..
[05:00] <dtchen> kklimonda: ok, so it's probably power_save=10
[05:01] <dtchen> kklimonda: try: sudo alsa force-unload && sudo modprobe snd-hda-intel power_save=0
[05:01] <dtchen> kklimonda: which codec? (head -6 /proc/asound/card*/codec*
[05:01] <dtchen> Codec: Conexant CX20561 (Hermosa)
[05:02] <dtchen> well, without the stray paste line
[05:02] <kklimonda> Codec: Analog Devices AD1984
[05:04] <dtchen> ah, ok. yeah, i have that one queued
[05:04] <kklimonda> ok, thanks
[05:04] <dtchen> unfortunately some codecs have worse documentation...
[05:04] <kklimonda> :)
[05:04] <dtchen> are you no 32-bit or 64-bit?
[05:04] <dtchen> on*, rather
[05:05] <kklimonda> 32
[05:05] <dtchen> ok, that's easier to build since i've already got half the kernel built
[05:06] <test34> how can I see the error messages generated from empathy? if I start it from the console, it gets automatically started in the background and doesn't show anything
[05:14] <DKcross> Amaranth,  hello
[05:14] <DKcross> the bug is with other kernel
[05:37] <cdm10> i noticed that the authorizations manager doesn't seem to be listing everything it should... is it just me?
[05:37] <DanaG> oh yeah, stupid broken go7007 driver... it'
[05:38] <DanaG> it's blocking the vanilla-kernel auto-builds.
[05:38] <DanaG> s/lock/reak/
[05:38] <DanaG> er, technically, "s/loc/rea/ would do it, too.  =P
[05:38] <DanaG> block -> break
[05:38] <cdm10> heh
[05:39] <DanaG> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/daily/current/BUILD.LOG
[05:46] <pwnguin> huh. apparently liferea supports xslt natively
[05:49] <Dr_Willis> Howdy all.
[05:50] <Dr_Willis> I think i might of noticed somthing odd with the 'flash drives not auto mounting issue' ive been having..   I just want to ask you that DONT have an issue.. 'when you remove your flash drive, do you use the Unmount or Eject Menu item?
[05:56] <bullgard4> How can I deinstall all games?
[05:56] <Dr_Willis> fire up package manager and start looking/removing I guess.
[05:57] <Dr_Willis> I wish the package manager system had a bigger/better 'tagging type support feature'
[06:10] <pwnguin> debtags?
[06:12] <test34> darthanubis, are you a bot?
[06:13] <hifi> wat, karmic tells me my hard drive is failing
[06:14] <hifi> "DISK FAILURE IS IMMINIENT"
[06:14] <test34> bullgard4, use synaptic and click "Games and Amusement", sort by install state and uncheck all installed games
[06:14] <cdm10> sweet, karmic monitors SMART?
[06:14] <hifi> seems so
[06:14] <cdm10> hifi: in all seriousness, though, that sucks... how old is your drive?
[06:14] <hifi> SMART data tells me my Reallocated Sector Count is *high*
[06:14] <test34> hifi, good luck
[06:15] <hifi> it's a maxtor, thats perfectly normal ;)
[06:15] <hifi> threshold is 63, current count is 636, ouch
[06:17] <hifi> but the good thing is the upgrade went well from jaunty to karmic
[06:17] <hifi> but I also think my boot time doubled
[06:22] <bullgard4> test34: Very good! --  Thank you very much for your help.
[06:23] <bullgard4> hifi: My boot time did not double. It rather became less.
[06:23] <cwillu_at_work> hifi, um
[06:23] <hifi> first boot after upgrade could take longer?
[06:23] <cwillu_at_work> hifi, I would strongly suggest leaving your computer turned off until you can buy a new harddrive, and then backing everything up to that drive
[06:24] <cwillu_at_work> hifi, it could take longer, or it could just be taking longer because of read retries due to the reallocated sectors
[06:24] <hifi> no worries, this is not my main desktop
[06:24] <test34> good tip cwillu...
[06:24] <hifi> I run synergy client and urxvt on it
[06:25] <cwillu_at_work> well, as long as we can trust you to prefix any bug reports with "my drive is known to be failing, but..."
[06:25] <cwillu_at_work> hifi, take a look at xpra
[06:25] <cwillu_at_work> not a synergy replacement, but if you do networked applications at all, it'll be interesting
[06:25] <cwillu_at_work> it's basically screen for x apps
[06:26] <hifi> kind of cool
[06:27] <hifi> btw. I suppose there are no automagic tool in karmic to "move" your system to a new drive?
[06:27] <cdm10> dd :)
[06:27] <hifi> that wouldn't work with different drive geometries that well :p
[06:27] <test34> cwillu_at_work, does it do the same as ssh -X
[06:28] <cdm10> hifi: geometries? come on, we're in the 21st century :)
[06:28] <cdm10> hifi: I dd, then use parted to resize the partitions to fill the new drive.
[06:28] <cwillu_at_work> test34, it works with ssh -X, in a better way :)
[06:28] <cwillu_at_work> i.e., it survives disconnects
[06:28] <cwillu_at_work> ... and x restarts
[06:29] <test34> cool
[06:29] <cwillu_at_work> i.e., you can start xchat in xpra, and then when the irssi people starting going all 'omg, I can use screen', you can slap them down
[06:29] <hifi> cdm10: what if the target drive is somewhat smaller
[06:29] <bullgard4> This is a newly bought computer. Has the procedure to install initramfs changed compared to Hardy?
[06:29] <cdm10> hifi: resize the partition before dding
[06:29] <Tronic> hifi: You should compare normalized value to threshold. If normalized value is lower than threshold, you are in trouble.
[06:29] <test34> hehe cwillu
[06:30] <Tronic> The last value displayed is the raw value (e.g. sector count).
[06:31] <cwillu_at_work> hifi, if the new drive is bigger than the original, a simple dd if=/dev/old of=/dev/new bs=65536 will work fine
[06:31] <cwillu_at_work> you can resize the partition later
[06:31] <cdm10> cwillu_at_work: apparently the new one is smaller... so I told him to resize first, then dd it.
[06:31] <cwillu_at_work> alternatively, if you keep all your personal data in your home directory, a fresh install + backing up your home directory will suffice to bring your settings across
[06:31] <cwillu_at_work> yep
[06:31] <cwillu_at_work> well
[06:31] <cwillu_at_work> no
[06:31] <cwillu_at_work> NO
[06:32] <cdm10> cwillu_at_work: will that blow something up?
[06:32] <cwillu_at_work> you just suggest he resize a disk that's known to be faulty!? :p
[06:32] <cdm10> shit, good point.
[06:32] <cdm10> forgot about that element of the problem.
[06:32] <cwillu_at_work> just make the new filesystem, and then use rsync -vax to backup the whole thing
[06:32] <cwillu_at_work> you'll need to install grub as well, but that's fairly straightforward
[06:32] <hifi> http://hifi.iki.fi/karmic-smart.png thats like, bad
[06:32] <cwillu_at_work> and then you'll have the exact same system, with all the hd capacity :)
[06:33] <cdm10> hifi: ...ouch. like, a lot.
[06:33] <cwillu_at_work> hifi, ^ read the above stuff :p
[06:33] <hifi> don't sweat too much, I have no sensitive data on this drive nor do I care too much
[06:33] <Jordan_U> hifi: Partimage is probably what you want
[06:33] <DanaG> My boot time DID seem to increase after the upstart changes.
[06:33] <DanaG> A whole lotta' thrashing going on.
[06:33] <Jordan_U> hifi: That way you don't have to resize first
[06:33] <DanaG> High disk usage, low throughput.
[06:34] <cdm10> DanaG: perhaps a fresh install would treat you better?
[06:34] <Dr_Willis> They still havent fixed that 'Disk Failure is innmnent' warning yet?
[06:34] <DanaG> I'd have to re-customize all my stuff I've customized.
[06:34] <cdm10> DanaG: oh no :)
[06:34] <DanaG> actually, read the scrollback... this guy's drive really does seem to be failing.
[06:34] <cdm10> DanaG: how much is your system customized byond your home folder?
[06:34] <hifi> Dr_Willis: fixed?
[06:35] <Dr_Willis> hifi:  ive had it warn on drives with no errors.
[06:35] <DanaG> hmm, some HAL FDI files, some Xorg tweaks, dnsmasq, and stuff.
[06:35] <Dr_Willis> but yours actually might BE a warning toheed.
[06:35] <cdm10> does the disk failure warning pop up automatically or do you have to view in palimpsest?
[06:35] <Dr_Willis> it tends tobe a little too alarmist
[06:35] <Jordan_U> cdm10: Automatically
[06:35] <hifi> cdm10: the icon is automagic
[06:35] <cdm10> nice.
[06:35] <cdm10> although could scare the crap out of people unnecessarily
[06:36] <Dr_Willis> i dont even have that icon any more... not sure how it vanished or is restarted
[06:36] <cdm10> didn't Google do some big study on drive failure and discover that SMART was pretty much useless?
[06:36] <Dr_Willis> cdm10:  thats what i got from the google study also
[06:36] <DanaG> worst. name. ever.  google for define:palimpsest.
[06:36] <Dr_Willis> of coruse when ya got 10000+ drives  you can afford to replace ones that get flagged as  suspect..
[06:36] <Teclys> what's the quickest way to update from alpha 3 to alpha 6?
[06:37] <cdm10> Teclys: run automatic updates?
[06:37] <cdm10> i mean... not to say that self-diagnosis is completely useless... but apparently SMART doesn't do it too well.
[06:37] <Jordan_U> DanaG: I don't see the problem, it's not apt but it's not GIMP :)
[06:37] <Teclys> cdm10 is that just apt-get update?
[06:37] <Dr_Willis> I have more issues with cd/dvd/burners then i do with hard drives....
[06:38] <cdm10> Teclys: no. it isn't.
[06:38] <Dr_Willis> Those things just dont seem to last/work well any more for me
[06:38] <cdm10> Teclys: run the Update Manager in System>Administration
[06:38] <DanaG> It's "Erased Parchment".
[06:38]  * DanaG installs gnome-disk-utility
[06:38] <cdm10> Teclys: if for some reason you don't have a GUI, I'll tell you the command.
[06:38] <Teclys> ahh there we go, thank you
[06:38]  * DanaG hits alt-f2 and tries to run...
[06:38] <DanaG> gnome-disk-utility.
[06:38] <DanaG> What?  It doesn't exist?
[06:38] <DanaG> Didn't I just install it?
[06:38] <Teclys> be right back
[06:38] <DanaG> =P
[06:39] <Dr_Willis> its not here either DanaG
[06:39] <DanaG> that's because it's not really gnome-disk-utility.  It's an erased parchment.
[06:39] <DanaG> I literally had to dpkg --listfiles gnome-disk-utility, to find out the danged executable name.
[06:40] <Dr_Willis> and what is the executable name?
[06:41] <draconis> has anyone used "getlibs"? there has got to be a way to tack on dependency resolution to that
[06:42] <cwillu_at_work> draconis, what's the context?
[06:43] <draconis> well, I'm trying to install a 32-bit application. one that has "soft" dependencies
[06:43] <cdm10> is anyone else experiencing constant indicator-session crashes?
[06:43] <draconis> don't even mention ia32-apt-get. it's so broken it's not funny (even on Jaunty)
[06:45] <DanaG> Dr_Willis: the exectuable name is "palimpsest".
[06:46] <draconis> cwillu_at_work: apparently there was supposed to be some new multilibs support in Karmic. but that would have held the release back
[06:46] <cwillu_at_work> draconis, might find a ppa with the support then
[06:46] <Amaranth> There is no PPA afaik
[06:46] <cwillu_at_work> really?
[06:46] <Amaranth> It requires dpkg and apt changes
[06:46] <cwillu_at_work> what's the project name?
[06:46] <draconis> ehhhh? you can't support multilib with a package
[06:47] <Teclys> cdm10, there was some problem with update-manager so i reinstalled it and now everything is working. thank you
[06:47] <cdm10> Teclys: alright.
[06:47] <draconis> Amaranth: it also requires repository changes, which won't happen due to Debian not adding support for half a decade
[06:47] <Amaranth> Trying to find the spec now
[06:48] <Amaranth> draconis: no repo changes iirc
[06:48] <draconis> oh, then you mean I could tack it on myself?
[06:48] <Amaranth> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiarchSpec
[06:48] <draconis> IIRC, that's dead
[06:49] <Amaranth> draconis: No, just delayed
[06:49] <Amaranth> draconis: It was the one planned for karmic
[06:49] <draconis> well, I have seen delayed support in Debian (it never did happen)
[06:50] <draconis> notice the control fields, and the filesystem layout. that would require changes to ALL packages
[06:50] <Amaranth> but not all at once
[06:50] <draconis> Amaranth: any idea if this will get added to Ubuntu+2/+3/+4?
[06:51] <draconis> or is there no timeframe
[06:51] <Amaranth> the spec was explicitly designed to _not_ require a flag day
[06:51] <draconis> oh, good
[06:51] <Amaranth> draconis: The initial plan was to have enough of it implemented to get rid of ia32-libs in time for karmic but didn't make it so I suspect we'll have it in lucid or lucid+1
[06:52] <draconis> I mean, as the years go by less and less people even need to run 32-bit apps
[06:53] <Amaranth> draconis: someone will probably always need it
[06:53] <draconis> the armel cross-compiling stuff might still be useful, but I'm not aware that's a big Ubuntu priority
[06:53] <Amaranth> draconis: and with this spec as long as we have x86 releases we have amd64 multiarch pretty much for free
[06:54] <draconis> yeah, true
[06:54] <Amaranth> draconis: ubuntu is getting big into arm
[06:54] <cdm10> is it just me or is the firefox 3.5 icon in karmic somehow uglier than the old firefox 3.0 icon?
[06:54] <cdm10> i mean, it's the same design, but there's SOME issue with how it's being drawn that I can't put my finger on.
[06:55] <draconis> I haven't seen any popular ARM netbooks, unfortunately
[06:55] <Dr_Willis> They exist ? ie not seen an ARMnetbooks yet
[06:56] <Dr_Willis> I did see some web site that had some arm type portables but i lost the URL.
[06:57] <Amaranth> cdm10: That's the new upstream icon
[06:57] <cdm10> Amaranth: ...why is it uglier?
[06:57] <Amaranth> Dr_Willis: you can buy the touchbook
[06:57] <Amaranth> cdm10: They made it shinier
[06:57] <Amaranth> cdm10: and more 3D
[06:57] <cdm10> Amaranth: but there's some drawing issue.
[06:57] <Amaranth> cdm10: It looks _awesome_ at larger sizes
[06:57] <Amaranth> cdm10: screenshot
[06:57] <cdm10> one sec
[06:58] <Dr_Willis> for the4 cost/size/battery life  of some of theese new netbooks ive seen..  its almost cheaper to just get a small laptop.
[06:58] <cdm10> bug 436410
[06:58] <cdm10> Amaranth: there ya go
[06:58] <Amaranth> cdm10: pretty sure that's just the design
[06:59] <cdm10> Amaranth: you don't think something looks a bit off about it?
[06:59] <Dr_Willis> now what if the reply is ' err... its the same image ' :)
[06:59] <Amaranth> cdm10: I think the firefox lost some weight and got a coat of varnish
[07:00] <cdm10> :-/ okay. somehow it looks less sharp.
[07:00] <Amaranth> cdm10: That's because they took some of the detail out of the tail and made it shiny so the details that are there are hard to see at small sizes
[07:00] <cdm10> ok.
[07:00] <Dr_Willis> lets see.. yes. My one drive is flagged as  'DIsk has many bad sectors' but how many is many?
[07:00] <Amaranth> cdm10: it's optimized for sitting on your desktop or in your dock (windows and OS X)
[07:00] <cdm10> aha. yeah, not so great as a tiny panel icon.
[07:05] <cdm10> Amaranth: what's the procedure for withdrawing my report? mark as invalid?
[07:05] <Amaranth> cdm10: yeah
[07:07] <Dr_Willis> Grr.. netbook keeps looseing wireless connection.. then when it connects its at 100%
[07:08] <Dr_Willis> and its right  above the router. in the uppstairs room
[07:14] <Jordan_U> Dr_Willis: Directional antenna or interference?
[07:15] <hifi> software store was renamed to software center?
[07:15] <Jordan_U> Dr_Willis: Right above the router with a high gain antenna is a bad place to be
[07:17] <Dr_Willis> Jordan_U:  well above about 8 ft and to the left about 4
[07:17] <Dr_Willis> then it shoes 100%   then it stops... then it comes back
[07:17] <Dr_Willis> Moved the thing downstairs and it still dident reconnect.. so i got out the wire cable :) heck with wireless
[07:18] <Dr_Willis> One of these days i need tomove the wireless ruter upstairs.. but thats too much hassle for now
[07:25] <DBO> dtchen, are you here?
[07:39] <bullgard4> In Hardy there was a folder /usr/share/doc/linux-doc-2.6.24/Documentation/ . Where is the equivalent folder in Karmic?
[07:48] <tgpraveen> !info libtheora
[07:48] <tgpraveen> !info theora
[07:49] <tgpraveen> !info lintheora-1
[07:49] <tgpraveen> :-(
[07:49] <bullgard4> !info Documentation
[08:03] <Adapter> moin catweazle
[08:04] <catweazle> moin Adapter
[08:04]  * Blizzerand__ yawns
[08:07] <Blizzerand__> Don't tak me wrong but I feel much comfortable with Add/remove programs that using Ubuntu Store . Ubuntu Store gives an old look lol
[08:10] <Dr_Willis> I foumnd the add/remove to be annoying..
[08:11] <Dr_Willis> Thjeres a Ubuntu Store? where? :) i must have overlooked it
[08:11] <catweazle> Software Center
[08:11] <catweazle> renamed;)
[08:11] <Dr_Willis> 'Ubuntu software store' there it is. :)
[08:12] <Blizzerand__> catweazle : But I find it named Ubuntu Software Store in Alpha 6
[08:13] <catweazle> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-store/+bug/436648
[08:13] <eagles0513875> strangeness prevails in karmic
[08:14] <Blizzerand__> Of all my experiences with linux I've tried Add/Remove programs only once . I'm always with the terminal .
[08:16] <ripps> Blizzerand__: I spend about 60% of my time in the linux terminal, so I never used those graphical apt tools, but It's nice to have something to show my parents how easy it is to use.
[08:19] <Blizzerand__> ripps : those gui's are damn slow ,even Synaptic . I consider myself as a fast typist (lol :D) and decided to use the terminal . In fedora its much more easy as you only have to type yum instead of sudo apt-get
[08:19] <pwnguin> it would be nice to have screenshots
[08:20] <Machtin> sudo apti<tab> isn't too long i guess.
[08:20] <bullgard4> When starting Karmic, in the last (white) line appears a circular light blue symbol (applet) showing a man with outstreched arms. What information is this symbol to convey?
[08:21] <ripps> Blizzerand__: y'know, you can add aliases to your .bashrc. I use apt-upate as an alias for `sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude safe-upgrade && sudo aptitude dist-upgrade`
[08:21] <pwnguin> bullgard4: that you're using kubuntu?
[08:21] <bullgard4> pwnguin: No, I am using GNOME.
[08:27] <ripps> bullgard4: you talking about the gdm login screen, I think that might be the accessiblilty options
[08:28] <ripps> light blue is common color to signify handicap help
[08:28] <bullgard4> ripps: What is the associated program or DEB program package?
[08:28] <ripps> bullgard4: a number of applications... why?
[08:29] <bullgard4> ripps: Because I'd like to learn more about this feature of an Ubuntu Karmic computer.
[08:30] <ripps> it's probably related to at-spi, but I'm not really sure
[08:35] <manshoon> Just built a new computer and installed alpha 6 but periodically (every few hours or so) the whole system locks up and I have to do a hard reboot.  How can I find out whether its the kernel or the hardware messing up?
[08:35] <manshoon> I so far have not found anything in the logs, but I dont dig through the alot so Im not sure what Im looking for
[08:36] <manshoon> its an intel i5 quad core. so this would be the 64-bit version, although i do have the 32 libs installed
[08:41] <blueglasses> mornin'
[08:41] <blueglasses> I'm running karmic, and some of the repos failed, like virtualbox, boxee, and .... let me check
[08:42] <Dr_Willis> !find virtualbox
[08:42] <Dr_Willis> !info virtualbox-ose
[08:42] <Dr_Willis> be sure 'universe' repo is enabled
[08:44] <blueglasses> I think its enabled, but maybe its wrong, I think I have the ppa for sun or something
[08:45] <blueglasses> dropbox repos also dont work
[08:45] <blueglasses> !find dropbox
[08:45] <Dr_Willis> ppa's  and other repos may or may not be updated for Karmic
[08:46] <Dr_Willis> i would stick with the official ubuntu repos only at this time
[08:46] <blueglasses> shoud I upgrade to lynx? lol I just wanted to use Quickly
[08:46] <blueglasses> !quickly
[08:46] <blueglasses> !find  quickly
[08:47] <blueglasses> !find quickly
[08:48] <blueglasses> apparmor tels-me its disabling firefox at boot, is this normal?
[08:49] <Amaranth> blueglasses: It's not disabling firefox
[08:49] <Amaranth> blueglasses: It's telling you the firefox profile for apparmor is disabled
[08:49] <blueglasses> exactly
[08:49] <Amaranth> Because it slows the boot way down
[08:50] <blueglasses> but jaunty also had the apparmor (for 3.0) ...
[08:50] <blueglasses> and has a quick boot
[08:51] <Amaranth> Yes, it was broken
[08:51] <Amaranth> the 3.5 one, I mean
[08:51] <Amaranth> It's not something you should file a bug for
[08:55] <blueglasses> ok
[08:56] <blueglasses> will karmic be realeased or witll repos go directly to lucid?
[08:56] <blueglasses> *will
[08:59] <mjbrooks> blueglasses, huh?
[09:00] <gosia> hi, i have a problem, i updated to karmic yestarday and now i cannot see login box after restart
[09:00] <gosia> im using kubuntu
[09:00] <gosia> so there should be kdm login screen
[09:01] <gosia> and i can only see text mode
[09:01] <gosia> i can login and startx
[09:01] <gosia> and everything is ok
[09:01] <mjbrooks> ah
[09:01] <gosia> but what do i have o do to make kdm running every time
[09:01] <Dr_Willis> Im not even sure what apparmour even does
[09:01] <Dr_Willis> !apparmor
[09:01] <mjbrooks> gosia, log on
[09:01] <gosia> mjbrooks i did
[09:02] <mjbrooks> gosia, edit /etc/init/kdm.conf
[09:02] <blueglasses> apparmor sets permitions to apps
[09:02] <mjbrooks> gosia, sudo nano /etc/init/kdm.conf
[09:02] <blueglasses> like chroot?
[09:02] <gosia> mjbrooks it is empty
[09:03] <gosia> ok it is not
[09:03] <mjbrooks> gosia, good
[09:03] <mjbrooks> whew
[09:03] <mjbrooks> gosia, on line 16... at the end, where it says "/usr/sbin/kdm"
[09:04] <mjbrooks> gosia, change that to "/usr/bin/kdm"
[09:04] <mjbrooks> gosia, save your changes and reboot
[09:04] <gosia> ok should i chceck now?
[09:04] <gosia> ok lets give it a try
[09:04] <gosia> thanks in advance
[09:04] <mjbrooks> gosia, welcome
[09:05] <eagles0513875> humm this is strange
[09:05] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, you're strange  ;P~
[09:05] <eagles0513875> O_O
[09:05]  * Dr_Willis reads up on apparmour
[09:05] <eagles0513875> no kde is working again but haging on login
[09:05] <mjbrooks> o_O
[09:05] <eagles0513875> nm its working
[09:05] <Dr_Willis> its not like 'chroot' its a different way :) it can aparently do similer tasks.
[09:06] <blueglasses> yep, but it starts at boot
[09:06] <Dr_Willis> it can do a Jailbash it seems -> http://bodhizazen.net/aa-profiles/bodhizazen/ubuntu-9.10/usr.local.bin.jailbash
[09:06] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, I hate logon hags.... they're atrocious
[09:06] <eagles0513875> ya but normally sometimes when i remove .kde it fixes it
[09:06] <eagles0513875> well in this case
[09:06] <Dr_Willis> Intro to apparmor http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1008906
[09:06] <eagles0513875> a simple vm reset ficed it
[09:07] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, what are you doing in that thing to cause so much trouble?!
[09:07] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: its the normal updates that cause me the trouble
[09:07] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, stop updating!!'
[09:07] <Amaranth> Dr_Willis: Think SELinux but for mortals
[09:08] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: i use my vm to test updates prior to updating my laptop
[09:08] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, find a nice quiet spot in the update cycle and leave well enough alone!!!  lol
[09:08] <eagles0513875> lol
[09:08] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: i dont care i like to fix stuff and if necessary file bugs to help fix and improve the next release
[09:08] <Dr_Willis> seems like an apparmor rule for wine - may be a good thing. :) but that may be a lttle harder to do
[09:08] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, pre-testing for a test system is silly
[09:09] <blueglasses> anyone: is it possible to run moblin on virtualbox with a intel E5200? I cant make it work
[09:09] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, grab those bugs by the horns blind like a man!
[09:09] <Amaranth> blueglasses: You need OpenGL
[09:09] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: i need to get my programming skills up to snuff and fix things meself lol
[09:09] <Dr_Willis> I recall there being some info on moblin and vmware on the moblim pages
[09:09] <blueglasses> I have openGL, I think,... it complains about processor capabilities
[09:10]  * mjbrooks rebeer... bah, better make that a single malt!
[09:11] <blueglasses> I guess E5200 is not a good virtualization processor... :(
[09:12] <eagles0513875> blueglasses: check your bios there is a feature in them that enables virtualization support
[09:12] <eagles0513875> make sure that is enabled
[09:12] <blueglasses> i think its enabled by default
[09:12] <Dr_Willis> I would CHECK
[09:12] <blueglasses> ok
[09:13] <Dr_Willis> because no mater if you think its 'default'or not.. :) you dont KNOW.
[09:13] <blueglasses> reboot needed :P brb
[09:15] <gosia> mjbrooks - that helped, thx a lot
[09:15] <gosia> on emore issue
[09:15] <bullgard4> [IBM-Thinkpad T43, Ubuntu Karmic] If I close the lid and re-open it, the screen will be dark. How to analyze this? I did Alt+SysRq+E, Alt+SysRq+U, (a flickering screen image appeared), Alt+SysRq+I (a centered frozen cursor appears on a black background) and rebooted. I cannot see an error message in dmesg. What
[09:15] <eagles0513875> bullgard4: if that is a bug already filed you would need more information
[09:16] <gosia> i have no usplash only text on black screen - that while powering up my laptop, when i switch it off, everything is ok - i can see nice kubuntu usplash
[09:16] <bullgard4> eagles0513875: Why do you use an if clause?
[09:16] <eagles0513875> bullgard4: i dont know if you are linking that from already filed bug or not
[09:17] <bullgard4> eagles0513875: I am not linking anything at the moment. My question was: "How to analyze this?"
[09:18] <eagles0513875> bullgard4: im not sure how one would ot be honest
[09:18] <ytco92> hello
[09:18] <bullgard4> eagles0513875: What do you mean by "ot"?
[09:18] <eagles0513875> to
[09:19] <bullgard4> eagles0513875: Ah, ok. --  Thank you for commenting.
[09:19] <eagles0513875> bullgard4: the only thing i have noticed
[09:20] <eagles0513875> in regards to a bug like that is there is something odd with x or something as i have some interesting issues with kde sometimes the login screen loads sometimes im dropped down to a tty console
[09:20] <eagles0513875> its hard to pinpoint to be honest
[09:20] <eagles0513875> ill be back
[09:24] <ripps> okay... I removed software-store, but I still have it's icons in Applications and Administration
[09:32] <mjbrooks> I find it odd that in KDE, many times when I open a program it's location in the task bar gets inserted before applications that were launched well before it
[09:33] <blueglasses> Dr_Willis, virtualization technology doesn't show on my bios, I'm using an Asus P5N73AM, maybe I need a bios upgrade?
[09:34] <Dr_Willis> i doubt if a bios upgrade would do much. Could be a feature they just decided to not enable.
[09:34] <Dr_Willis> to save a fes $
[09:35] <blueglasses> I can run win7 on virtualbox thow
[09:36] <blueglasses> its one of the cheaper processors
[09:36] <blueglasses> but fast :)
[09:37] <blueglasses> my board manual says the board has that option, but it doesnt show
[09:38] <blueglasses> I have C1 disabled on bios, does it has anything to do with virtual capabilities?
[09:39] <blueglasses> systeminfo says the processor has this flags supported fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm xsave lahf_lm
[09:41] <mjbrooks> I will not be tempted by updates.... I will not be tempted by updates.... I will not be tempted by updates.... I will not be tempted by updates....
[09:41]  * Dr_Willis sneaks into mjbrooks 's machine and does a dist-upgrade
[09:41] <mjbrooks> aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh
[09:42] <mjbrooks> lol
[09:44] <mjbrooks> Dr_Willis, at the speed and latency comcast has been giving me lately, if it breaks anything I'll be able to upgrade to Lucid Alpha 3 5 minutes after it finishes
[09:45] <mjbrooks> though I'm starting to wonder if there isn't something going on with the network stack
[09:47] <mjbrooks> I'm lucky if I'm somewhere in the 100-200kb/s on Karmic, but at the very same time I can pull a download on another device at 2-3Mb/s
[09:48] <mjbrooks> 3374B/s right now... sigh
[09:50] <blueglasses> I have an issue with usb device on boot (karmic) is this normal?
[09:51] <mjbrooks> depends on the "issue"
[09:51] <blueglasses> i think its a "cant connect to device" issue
[09:52] <blueglasses> I'll check the log
[09:53] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, what did you break now?
[09:53]  * mjbrooks pre-emptive stike!
[09:54]  * mjbrooks strike even
[09:55] <eagles0513875> nothing its still working
[09:56] <blueglasses> whats rtkit deamon?
[09:56] <blueglasses> !rtkit
[09:56] <eagles0513875> blueglasses: did you find that virtualization feature in ur bios
[09:56] <eagles0513875> !info rtkit
[09:56] <blueglasses> !find rtkit
[09:56] <eagles0513875> blueglasses:  see above bro
[09:56] <blueglasses> nope
[09:57] <blueglasses> my board has it, but does not show
[09:57] <eagles0513875> it should blueglasses just not sure where cuz i know mine does and on this custom built desktop i enabled it
[09:57] <eagles0513875> even had it enabled on my  hp tablet which i know has it
[09:57] <eagles0513875> you just have to go section by section
[09:58] <blueglasses> eagles0513875, i have c1, cpu multiplier...
[09:58] <eagles0513875> thats not what you want
[09:58] <blueglasses> limit cpuid
[09:59] <eagles0513875> blueglasses: i think its called virtualization or something
[09:59] <blueglasses> on the board manual its called virtualization technology
[10:00] <blueglasses> but it doesnt show
[10:00] <blueglasses> I have a E5200...
[10:00] <blueglasses> board is P5N73AM (asus)
[10:05] <blueglasses> stupid question: when my nick is wrote by someone on this channel text goes red, is this private msg or just highlight (using xchat)
[10:05] <Dr_Willis> Its your irc client Highlighting it blueglasses
[10:05] <Dr_Willis> a private message normally opens up a new window
[10:05] <blueglasses> ok thanks, i just dont wanna be offtopic :D
[10:06] <catweazle> blueglasses: cat /proc/cpuinfo
[10:06] <Dr_Willis> blueglasses:  check the xchat help docs/menu item  and xchat homepage.
[10:07]  * eagles0513875 starts doing some dev work
[10:07] <catweazle> you don't need virtualisation with virtualbox instead you wish to boot a 64bit OS on an installed 32bit OS
[10:07] <eagles0513875> catweazle: i believe that enabled helps the cpu better manage proc and memory usage
[10:07] <catweazle> no you need virtualisation with XEN for example
[10:07] <blueglasses> catweazle, shall i paste it on pastebin?
[10:08] <catweazle> no why?
[10:08] <catweazle> the E5200 can't do virtualisation
[10:08] <blueglasses> shall i paste it here?
[10:08] <eagles0513875> catweazle: can the q9550
[10:08] <catweazle> yes eagles0513875
[10:08] <blueglasses> so I should upgrade to a q9550?
[10:08] <blueglasses> lol
[10:09] <catweazle> why
[10:09] <blueglasses> i want to run moblin on a virtualbox env
[10:09] <blueglasses> to test it
[10:09] <blueglasses> and check it up
[10:09] <eagles0513875> heheh blueglasses you would be fine with or without it
[10:09] <catweazle> the new 6000er from intel can and so the 8000er and all quads
[10:10] <catweazle> and also all X2 and X4 from AMD
[10:10] <blueglasses> I dont have a netbook, i wonder if it works on a asus A1000, old pc, being monocore and all
[10:11] <blueglasses> yes, but the e5200 can be easly oc'ed to 3 ghz...
[10:13] <blueglasses> and this one is cheap, it cost me 50 euros
[10:13] <blueglasses> sorry for my bad english
[10:14] <blueglasses> eagles0513875, it wont start... i used a moblin image, and it shows the word moblin, nothing further
[10:15] <blueglasses> eagles0513875, it complains about processor capabilities on virtualbox, i cheked the flags for it from virtualbox software
[10:15] <eagles0513875> blueglasses: what are you trying to use for virtualization
[10:15] <eagles0513875> humm sounds like ur missing some kernel stuff for vbox
[10:16] <blueglasses> i can run windows 7 inside virtualbox, easy (i use it for skype lol )
[10:16] <blueglasses> since there is no skype version for karmic
[10:19] <eagles0513875> Deathvalley122: you sneaky bugger
[10:19] <Deathvalley122> lol
[10:19] <eagles0513875> blueglasses: there is a linux version of skype you get it from the skype website
[10:19] <Dr_Willis> and some times it eve4n works!
[10:20] <blueglasses> but it has old files lol
[10:20] <eagles0513875> it does work
[10:20] <Dr_Willis> if it works.. it works...
[10:20] <blueglasses> it does
[10:20] <Dr_Willis> many people have issues getting their Mics to work
[10:20] <blueglasses> i used it before
[10:20] <eagles0513875> my built in laptop mic didnt though but the cam did
[10:20] <eagles0513875> Dr_Willis: hehe exactly
[10:21] <Dr_Willis> it took me a little twidling to get my mic working.. and i had to plug it into  the Front audio in port. instead of the back.. butit worked
[10:22] <blueglasses> my problem on skype linux is not mic, its breaking dependencies
[10:22] <blueglasses> and webcam, but thats because i have an old webcam
[10:24] <eagles0513875> strange
[10:24] <ytco92> hello
[10:24] <eagles0513875> !hi | ytco92
[10:24] <ytco92> lol :)
[10:25] <ytco92> i can't print today... :(
[10:25] <ytco92> i have an Epson Stylus DX7400, and it used to work since i installed karmic. With some updates, it doesn't work anymore today
[10:27] <blueglasses> eagles0513875, why strange?
[10:27] <eagles0513875> normally the older hardware has better support then newer hardware
[10:28] <blueglasses> not on this case, its a creative 1030 model webcam
[10:29] <blueglasses> it works on linux using a "wrong" driver
[10:30] <blueglasses> wich causes some issues, like no image on skype (black screen)
[10:30] <eagles0513875> O_o
[10:30] <eagles0513875> strange
[10:31] <blueglasses> i could only use it using amsn i think (cant remmember if it was that or kopete)
[10:32] <eagles0513875> not sure
[10:32] <blueglasses> let me try it on this new processor, i never did, i think..
[10:36] <blueglasses> it actually works fine with cheese
[10:37] <ytco92> noone?
[10:38] <eagles0513875> patience ytco92 if anyone knows they will answer
[10:38] <ytco92> ok...
[10:39] <zniavre> hello
[10:39] <zniavre> does gdebi work on your karmic installation ?
[10:40] <zniavre> dpkg -i * works  but gdebi does not
[10:40] <ytco92> same here :)
[10:43] <zniavre> ha nice to hear (i always believe my installation is wrong)
[10:43] <zniavre> thank you
[10:46] <blueglasses> how can i tell if i installed the 32 or 64 bits version of ubuntu, and, can i change from one to another without re-installing?
[10:50] <yofel> blueglasses: run 'uname -m' in a terminal
[10:51] <yofel> but to change it you'll have to reinstall the system
[10:51] <catfish> hey guys
[10:51] <catfish> i just tried karmic
[10:51] <blueglasses> yofel, i686
[10:51] <blueglasses> is it 64?
[10:51] <catfish> it worked fine but after an bigger update, it won't boot up anymore
[10:52] <catfish> grup cannot find the root dev since i did the update
[10:52] <yofel> blueglasses: i686 is 32-bit
[10:52] <yofel> zniavre, ytco92: do you by change have bug 388953
[10:53] <blueglasses> yofel, is it possible to istall 64 bits on a intel e5200 cpu?
[10:54] <eagles0513875> blueglasses: all of todays intel processors are both 64bit and 32bit capable
[10:54] <blueglasses> (its a dual core)
[10:54] <blueglasses> ok so i installed the wrong version :S
[10:56] <eagles0513875> what version did u install blueglasses
[10:58] <catfish> guys, is the boot problem mentioned by me known to you?
[10:59] <oldude67> catfish, which release did you install?
[10:59] <catfish> alpha6 x64
[11:00] <eagles0513875> catfish: im on x64 alpha 6 on a vm as well as duel boot and havent had any problems like that
[11:00] <catfish> hmm
[11:00] <catfish> maybe caused by my hw raid
[11:00] <eagles0513875> catfish: did you do a clean install or upgrade
[11:00] <eagles0513875> catfish: its possible
[11:01] <catfish> but it worked well on at first
[11:01] <eagles0513875> catfish: its up and down
[11:01] <oldude67> catfish, verp possible.
[11:01] <eagles0513875> karmic dont wanna get fixed without a fight :P
[11:06] <catfish> eagles0513875, i was able to mount and chroot to my root partition
[11:06] <eagles0513875> :) #
[11:07] <catfish> so i can't be an problem with the hw-raid, right?
[11:07] <catfish> i wil check my grup-conf now
[11:08] <blueglasses> eagles0513875, i installed jaunty i366 probably
[11:09] <eagles0513875> blueglasses: upgrading is nice but also has issues like your probably using grub instead of grub2 which is now the default as well ask ext4 but im still not sure as to a solution
[11:09] <eagles0513875> catfish: also check the logs too
[11:10] <blueglasses> ...
[11:11] <blueglasses> Linux quark 2.6.31-10-generic #35-Ubuntu SMP Tue Sep 22 17:33:42 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux
[11:12] <blueglasses> what iso should i use/download with karmic? (whasnt it to be released on the 24 or something?)
[11:13] <blueglasses> or should i simply compile quickly? I just upgraded to karmic to be able to use quickly
[11:13] <roffe> is it the thought to replace synaptic and add/remove with the software center?
[11:13] <rsk> blueglasses: i dont get the question really
[11:13] <blueglasses> there is no quickly binaries for jaunty
[11:14] <rsk> what's quickly binaries
[11:14] <blueglasses> !info quickly
[11:14] <rsk> ok
[11:15] <rsk> so what's the problem?
[11:15] <blueglasses> i wanted to start developing something and i thought it would be nice to use quickly. I was using jaunty, I upgraded to karmic.
[11:16] <blueglasses> but then again, I need to use virtualization: i want moblin in a virtual machine using virtualbox, to test it
[11:17] <rsk> ok getting there, so what's the issue?
[11:17] <Dr_Willis> I had issues with Moblin wheni plaed with it yesterday
[11:17] <rsk> what issues
[11:17] <rsk> :p
[11:17] <blueglasses> so my processor is not a good one for virtualization, but I manage to run windows 7 inside a virtual machine, so i guess just  cant install dual core clients on a 32 bit host
[11:17] <rsk> dualcore is fine on 32bit
[11:18] <rsk> your guess is wrong
[11:18] <blueglasses> the trouble was: system complains about my procesor when installing moblin on a virtual machine (its 64 bits) and I currently have i586
[11:19] <Ubunux> hello
[11:19] <yofel> yes, you can't run a x64 virtual machine on a x86 host
[11:19] <yofel> but isn't there a x86 version of moblin?
[11:19] <yofel> hi Ubunux
[11:19] <catfish> eagles0513875, grup claims that /dev/sde5 doesn't exist but it is there and mountable within busybox
[11:20] <blueglasses> not on the repos yofel
[11:20] <catfish> and my root file system is there as well
[11:20] <blueglasses> at least i didnt saw one
[11:20] <eagles0513875> catfish: not sure as to the issue with grub
[11:21] <blueglasses> i'm trying to determine if i should (and if i can) reinstall ubuntu 64 version on a e5200 so i dont have issues
[11:21] <blueglasses> and then install virtualbox, moblin iso, and compile quickly instead
[11:22] <rsk> you can do that
[11:23] <blueglasses> there should be a package for medibuntu repos autoinstall with all options enabled lol so i didnt had to configure it all again
[11:23] <blueglasses> !info virtualbox
[11:23] <blueglasses> also virtualbox should be on karmic repos
[11:24] <yofel> !info virtualbox-ose
[11:24] <yofel> blueglasses: it's there
[11:24] <ytco92> yofel, yes i think that is the bug
[11:25] <Amaranth> blueglasses: kvm for the win?
[11:25] <yofel> ytco92: I notified the person in charge 2 days ago, haven't heard from him after that
[11:25] <blueglasses> kvm?
[11:25] <blueglasses> is it better?
[11:26] <yofel> I guess it's time to ping him again
[11:26] <ytco92> yofel, i don't know, the bug is on launchpad so he knows about it...
[11:26] <yofel> well
[11:26] <Amaranth> blueglasses: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM
[11:26] <Amaranth> blueglasses: I think so, it's built right into the kernel
[11:27] <yofel> it should be a quick fix since the patch he applied is missing in the newer version
[11:27] <Amaranth> blueglasses: and has better OpenGL support once you setup VMGL
[11:27] <Dr_Willis> !info kvm
[11:27] <Amaranth> yofel: what's the problem?
[11:28] <Amaranth> Dr_Willis: it's a kernel module and a qemu fork
[11:28] <Amaranth> although the kvm and qemu guys are merging
[11:28] <yofel> Amaranth: gdebi-gtk is broken again, I pinged mvo 2 days ago, but haven't heard from him since then
[11:28] <Dr_Willis> ok - last i played with qemu - it .. err.. dident work too good. :)
[11:28] <Amaranth> so qemu will work standalone, with kvm, and with kqemu
[11:28] <Amaranth> yofel: He is crazy busy
[11:29] <Amaranth> yofel: He handles dpkg, apt, software-center, and uploads compiz stuff for me :)
[11:29] <Dr_Willis> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/virtualization.html
[11:29] <yofel> ok, then I'll give him some more time :)
[11:30] <blueglasses> Amaranth, ok i will give it a try :-)
[11:31] <blueglasses> does it have nice wizards like virtualbox?
[11:39] <blueglasses> where can i download latest karmic iso 64 for a intel e5200?
[11:40] <blueglasses> or... should i stick with jaunty? will I be able to compile quickly?
[11:40] <om26er> i cannot use any application that requires internet unless i open it from terminal using sudo
[11:40] <Dr_Willis> theres daily builds at the build site
[11:40] <AlanBell> just tried an update/upgrade and dist-upgrade but ubuntu-desktop is being held back. How do I force it to upgrade?
[11:40] <blueglasses> !buidsite
[11:40] <blueglasses> !buid
[11:40] <AlanBell> !buildsite
[11:41] <Dr_Willis> i always just google for 'ubuntu daily build'
[11:41] <om26er> cdimage.ubuntu.com
[11:41] <AlanBell> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[11:41] <blueglasses> AlanBell,  sudo apt-get autoclean ?
[11:41] <jonathonf> AlanBell: are you doing an update-manager -d to upgrade or just a normal update?
[11:42] <blueglasses> AlanBell,  sudo apt-get autoremove (also) ?
[11:42] <om26er> i cannot use any application that use internet unless i start it using sudo
[11:42] <AlanBell> blueglasses: that deleted a few things, but it is still held
[11:42] <jonathonf> if it's a normal update check synaptic to see which packages are being help back after you do a "mark all upgrades"
[11:42] <yofel> !daily | blueglasses
[11:42] <yofel> that's the one ;)
[11:43] <AlanBell> jonathonf: just a normal update, from the command line
[11:43] <blueglasses> :-) thanks yofel
[11:43] <AlanBell> om26er: even ping?
[11:44] <eagles0513875> i think i need to compile alsa from source :(
[11:44] <eagles0513875> have no sound on me duelboot
[11:44] <blueglasses> AlanBell, just sudo apt-get update and also check your sources
[11:44] <om26er> AlanBell: exactly
[11:45] <AlanBell> blueglasses: I did that. What am I checking for in sources. I just have standard repos plus parter repos turned on
[11:45] <om26er> AlanBell: do u know what to do?
[11:46] <om26er> AlanBell: i cannot ping without sudo
[11:46] <AlanBell> om26er: erm, not really
[11:46] <om26er> any 1 else
[11:46] <blueglasses> AlanBell, try a restart
[11:46] <blueglasses> it worked for me
[11:47] <AlanBell> blueglasses: now that is just something *other* operating systems do :-(
[11:47] <blueglasses> AlanBell, did you apt-get upgrade also?
[11:48] <AlanBell> blueglasses: yes, I updated, upgraded, dist-upgraded, update-manager -d and all still hold back ubuntu-desktop
[11:49] <blueglasses> AlanBell, kernel and also some of the conf might have changed, so you should restart
[11:49] <AlanBell> ok, will do in a bit
[11:49] <blueglasses> hey guys, help me here with AlanBell, I'm not an expert :P
[11:50] <AlanBell> oooh I see an "install font" button on the font viewer!
[11:50] <Amaranth> AlanBell: yeah, for like a year now :P
[11:51] <AlanBell> Amaranth: so why don't I see it on my fully updated jaunty box?
[11:51] <blueglasses> whats the iBus preferences btw?
[11:51] <blueglasses> !ibus
[11:51] <blueglasses> !info ibus
[11:51] <Amaranth> AlanBell: could have sworn that landed in 2.25.1 but maybe it was 2.27.1
[11:52] <om26er> do any know that in the live cd of today the 27th both empathy and pidgin were out of the box together
[11:52] <Amaranth> om26er: packaging bug
[11:52] <Amaranth> got broken late friday then of course everyone who could fix it is gone for the weekend :P
[11:52] <om26er> Amaranth: you sure or just guessing
[11:53] <Amaranth> om26er: 100% sure
[11:53] <Amaranth> If I had upload permissions for main it would be fixed already
[11:55] <blueglasses> time for a bath and go vote, see you later and thanks for everything
[11:55] <om26er> will anybody like to comment on my problem: cannot use internet withoud sudo
[11:56] <blueglasses> 0__O
[11:56] <Amaranth> Raphi974: try `update-manager -c -d`
[11:56] <dns53> what problems you having om26er?
[11:57] <om26er> dns53: cannot use any internet app unless run it from terminal using sudo
[11:57] <Amaranth> om26er: using network manager to connect?
[11:58] <om26er> Amaranth: yes
[11:58] <AlanBell> om26er: wired or wireless?
[11:58] <om26er> AlanBell: wireless
[11:58] <Amaranth> om26er: what happens when you run `ping google.com`?
[11:59] <om26er> Amaranth: unknown host without sudo
[11:59] <Dr_Willis> try it by ip?
[12:00] <Araneidae> dns lookup requires root?  I can't imagine how that can be ... unless /etc/resolv.conf isn't world readable
[12:00] <AlanBell> om26er: sounds like a DNS resolution when not root problem  then - very odd
[12:00] <Raphi974> Amaranth, it works ^^
[12:00] <AlanBell> ls -l /etc/resolv.conf
[12:00] <Araneidae> and cat it for good measure
[12:01] <Dr_Willis>  google.com (74.125.45.100)
[12:01] <Amaranth> should be 644
[12:01] <Dr_Willis> Hmm.. works via ip - but not name.
[12:01] <AlanBell> rebooted, still can't upgrade ubuntu-desktop.
[12:01] <Dr_Willis> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 131 2009-09-26 08:16 /etc/resolv.conf
[12:01] <om26er> Dr_Willis: yes ip ping
[12:02] <Araneidae> There's another dns configure file in /etc, can't remember it offhand
[12:02] <AlanBell> tried aptitude, it tells me ubuntu-desktop could be upgraded to 1.171, but it is being held at version 1.170
[12:03] <Araneidae> What about /etc/nsswitch.conf ?
[12:03] <AlanBell> press i a few times and it says Unable to find a reason to install ubuntu-desktop
[12:03] <AlanBell> I guess it is harmless, just a bit irritating that I don't understand it.
[12:03] <yofel> om26er: so, what are your resolv.conf permissions?
[12:04] <Amaranth> AlanBell: you most likely need a dist-upgrade as it swaps software-store for software-center
[12:05] <om26er> yofel: root
[12:05] <AlanBell> Amaranth: dist-upgrade does nothing, still holds it back.
[12:05] <Araneidae> om26er, and the rest?
[12:05] <Araneidae> ie: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root
[12:05] <AlanBell> om26er: do ls -l /etc/resolv.conf
[12:07] <James147> AlanBell: try running aptitude why-not (or why) ubuntu-desktop
[12:07] <om26er> AlanBell: did it but did not work
[12:07] <yofel> om26er: sudo ls -l /etc/resolv.conf ?
[12:08] <Araneidae> and ls -ld /etc  !
[12:08] <Ubunux> AlanBell: deinstall software-store, install software-center, after that you are able to upgrade ubuntu-desktop
[12:08] <om26er> yofel: sudo did not work either
[12:08] <Araneidae> What does `ls -ld /etc` report ?
[12:08] <Amaranth> om26er: ping opens /etc/resolv.conf /etc/nsswitch.conf /etc/host.conf and /etc/hosts
[12:09] <Amaranth> also if you strace ping it fails to ping anything :P
[12:09] <scizzo-> Amaranth: is there a brainstorm channel for ubuntu on freenode?
[12:09] <vega> does 9.10 still support old style init scripts, ie. if i have a custom script will it work as usual after upgradeto 9.10 ?
[12:09] <Amaranth> scizzo-: Not that I know of
[12:09] <Amaranth> vega: Yes, it'll just start after everything that has been converted to upstart
[12:09] <scizzo-> Amaranth: ooo ok thanks
[12:09] <vega> Amaranth: ok thanks
[12:10] <scizzo-> I really do hope that gnome-commander will get more highlight in the future of ubuntu and linux....its got so much potential....
[12:10] <om26er> nothing happeded
[12:10] <om26er> happened
[12:11] <Bauldrick> hey - can someone help me
[12:11] <yofel> om26er: ls -ld /etc ?
[12:11] <Amaranth> Bauldrick: Not if you don't ask a question :)
[12:11] <dns53> Bauldrick you do not need to ask permission here
[12:11] <vega> Bauldrick: probably no, as you dno't specify your problem
[12:11] <yofel> It can't be that /nothing/ happens
[12:11] <Bauldrick> got your attention though :)
[12:11] <Araneidae> yofel, om26er, quite
[12:12] <roffe> is it the thought to replace synaptic and add/remove with the software center?
[12:12] <Amaranth> roffe: Eventually
[12:12] <Amaranth> roffe: For this release it only replaces add/remove
[12:12]  * Araneidae is wondering what the record is for the interval between suggesting a command and getting a successful response (on IRC, that is)
[12:12] <dns53> roffe i have heard 2/3 releases it will combine add remove, updates, synaptic etc
[12:13] <Amaranth> roffe: The plans for lucid and lucid+1 are for it to replace gdebi, update-manager, synaptic, and software-sources
[12:13] <roffe> Amaranth, Great, because I don't think it can replace synaptic at this state
[12:13] <Amaranth> roffe: Of course not, it can only install GUI apps :)
[12:13] <Bauldrick> I have never been able to load 2.6.31 kernel in karmic and recently my touchpad broke, that i cant fix. trying to install a fresh alpha6  i get same problem not being able to load 2.6.31 kernel
[12:13] <om26er> nothing worked but chown worked here
[12:13] <Bauldrick> off of disk
[12:13] <Amaranth> Bauldrick: What is the error?
[12:14] <yofel> om26er: could you *please* tell us what you're doing? ls -ld /etc should give you the permissions for the /etc folder
[12:14] <om26er> sudo chown username /etc/resolv.cong
[12:14] <Amaranth> om26er: Unless you don't have read access to / that command will output something
[12:14] <Amaranth> om26er: don't do that
[12:14] <Araneidae> omg @om26er
[12:14] <Bauldrick> udev error, something like "udevd 873 cant read SYMLINK{unique} in lib/udev/50-defaul-rules
[12:14] <Amaranth> om26er: /etc/resolv.conf should be chown root:root and chmod 644
[12:15] <Bauldrick> Amaranth: ^^
[12:15] <Amaranth> Bauldrick: That's a warning, not an error
[12:15] <Amaranth> Bauldrick: Does pressing ctrl-alt-f7 do anything? Some people are booting to a non-active VT
[12:15] <Bauldrick> its sits there and wont load the disk any further
[12:15] <Amaranth> Bauldrick: Also try ctrl-alt-f1
[12:15] <Amaranth> It may just be done booting
[12:16] <Bauldrick> i think that always gave me no initramfs
[12:17] <Amaranth> Bauldrick: You may also want to try a daily iso as there have been some boot fixes since the last alpha
[12:17] <Araneidae> Wow.  I wonder what happened to om26er's machine
[12:18] <i2v8an> does grub 2 safe to install on a semi-production machine yet?
[12:18] <i2v8an> is*
[12:18] <diverse_izzue> i2v8an, i would say yes, no problems here
[12:18] <i2v8an> that is if there are other os's involved too
[12:19] <diverse_izzue> i2v8an, no clue in that case... only ubuntu here
[12:19] <i2v8an> darn.. I really need to get a backup machine
[12:19] <i2v8an> lol
[12:20] <i2v8an> with that much said is there any documentation explaining how the new conf file in grub 2 works that is recommended?
[12:20] <yofel> !grub2 | i2v8an
[12:21] <i2v8an> thanks
[12:27] <Dr_Willis> then theres the grub homepage
[12:28] <Dr_Willis> but im not sure how much of ubuntu's grub 2 configs is 'ubuntu specific'
[12:28] <i2v8an> would it be?
[12:29] <i2v8an> if any bit ubuntu specific?
[12:29] <Dr_Willis> For example the use of /etc/default/grub  - may be a ubuntu specific config used by the ubuntu tools to configure grub2
[12:29] <i2v8an> ah yes
[12:30] <i2v8an> I'll have to defect of a day to fedora to find that out
[12:30] <i2v8an> for a day*
[12:30] <Dr_Willis> if they are even using grub2
[12:31] <Dr_Willis> Ive not noticed if any other disrtos are using it yet or not
[12:31] <i2v8an> I just looked it up
[12:31] <Dr_Willis> http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub-2.en.html
[12:31] <i2v8an> if anything fedora would be using grub 3 yesterday
[12:32] <i2v8an> well the official grub site doesn't have so much as far as docs
[12:32] <i2v8an> but yeah fedora 12 isn't going to have it
[12:32] <i2v8an> you're right
[12:33] <i2v8an> this sure adds a new twist to my linux experience
[12:34] <Spike1506> so what exactly is new in grub2? does it has any advantages over grub1?
[12:34] <Dr_Willis> http://grub.enbug.org/Manual
[12:34] <Dr_Willis> 'complete rewrite from the ground up'
[12:34] <Dr_Willis> GRUB 2 is derived from PUPA which was a research project to investigate the next generation of GRUB. GRUB 2 has been rewritten from scratch to clean up everything for modularity and portability.
[12:35] <Amaranth> i2v8an: grub2 config is very debian/ubuntu specific afaik
[12:35] <i2v8an> nice
[12:35] <Dr_Willis> GRUB 2 targets at the following goals
[12:35] <Dr_Willis> see   http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub-2.en.html
[12:35] <Amaranth> i2v8an: you don't modify the config file, you modify variables in /etc/default/grub to alter the running of the stock scripts that build the config file and write your own scripts to do anything extra beyond that
[12:35] <Dr_Willis> Portability for various architectures.  <-- no more diffrent bootloaders for macs,pc,arm,whatever....
[12:36] <Amaranth> The config file itself is completely autogenerated from these scripts
[12:36] <Dr_Willis> * Rescue mode saves unbootable cases. Stage 1.5 was eliminated.                <---- thats handy :)
[12:36] <Dr_Willis> 'future plans for grub 2' - MUCH improved themeing/config/gfx support.
[12:37] <penguin42> Dr_Willis: I'm suspicious if other architectures will pick it up that readily - things like ARM have whole sets of firmware like redboot burned into a lot of flash
[12:37] <Spike1506> ty
[12:37] <robin0800> Amaranth: you must run update-grub if you change /etc/default/grub
[12:37] <penguin42> Dr_Willis: Although maybe if these new ARM netbooks everyone keeps talking about happen then maybe it will
[12:37] <Amaranth> robin0800: I know...
[12:38] <Dr_Willis> so far from what i read.. grub 2 supports  intel, ppc, and EFI
[12:38] <Dr_Willis> Not sure how ARM fits in :)
[12:39] <Dr_Willis> when and if the arm netbooks get here
[12:39] <Amaranth> arm netbooks will probably use something custom
[12:39] <i2v8an> so how effective is update-grub2 at finding all operating systems?
[12:39] <Amaranth> i2v8an: It recently started finding OS X
[12:39] <Dr_Willis> i2v8an:  its worked here for me...
[12:40] <Dr_Willis> /etc/grub.d$ cat 30_os-prober
[12:40] <Dr_Willis> check in there. :) it seems like its a fancy script that does the detection.. not actually 'grub'
[12:40] <Dr_Willis> Unless im miss-reading
[12:41] <Dr_Willis> oh wait - the emay be a os-prober command
[12:42] <i2v8an> has anyone installed today's snapshot on a production (or recently rendered non-production) machine?
[12:42] <Dr_Willis> hurd|*)
[12:42] <Dr_Willis>       echo "  ${LONGNAME} is not yet supported by grub-mkconfig." >&2
[12:42] <Dr_Willis> it seems 'hurd' is not yet supported.. :)
[12:42] <rsk> 8)
[12:43] <rsk> hurd is more dead than UT3 on linux
[12:43] <rsk> or duke nukem forever
[12:43] <Dr_Willis> How about Minix!
[12:43] <Dr_Willis> :)
[12:43] <Dr_Willis> CP/M
[12:43] <dns53> hurd does actually exist at least and you can get it
[12:44] <penguin42> last time I tried it still needed Linux to install it
[12:44] <Dr_Willis> that GNU/Linux ! :)
[12:44] <virtuald> last time i tried Hurd it didn't boot
[12:48] <Araneidae> I wonder if this works: http://uwhug.org.uk/index.pl?QEmu_Installation_Guide  Going to give it a try
[12:49] <roffe> so... when will Linux conquer the world?
[12:50] <i2v8an> well at this rate...  judging by distrowatch.com....
[12:50] <i2v8an> we've been slacking off lately and the numbers all around seem to be falling a little.
[12:51] <Araneidae> Oh well, failure at the first hurdle: ftp.gnuab.org doesn't resolve
[12:51] <dns53> roffe by conquer the world you mean....
[12:51] <roffe> that's a bummer
[12:51] <roffe> dns53, when we will shoot laser at enemies etc
[12:52] <i2v8an> or everyone finally found the distro they want
[12:52] <yofel> roffe: if you want to complain, then complain in bug 1 - not here ;)
[12:52] <roffe> haha, I'll sure file it as a bug!
[12:52] <i2v8an> that would be an interesting bug
[12:53] <yofel> it *is* an interesting bug :P
[12:53] <yofel> and why timeout o.O - bug 1
[12:53] <i2v8an> ah that bug
[12:54] <i2v8an> didn't look it up
[12:54] <Araneidae> Hurd: http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd/status.html -- think I'll pass!
[12:55] <dirkraeder> Hi, I want to change GDM's theme on my Karmic installation but the usual dialog has disappeared. Which file do I have to edit?
[12:57] <roffe> there's a distro called Ubuntu Christian edition... odd people
[12:57] <i2v8an> would it be the same as 9.04?
[12:57] <i2v8an> there has to be if there's a muslim edition
[12:57] <roffe> yikes!
[12:57] <roffe> where's the atheist edition?
[12:59] <i2v8an> maybe that's where you come in. here's a start for you - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD
[12:59] <i2v8an> you can actually make your own distro cd this way
[12:59] <i2v8an> i've done it myself quite a few times already just for my own uses
[12:59] <Dai> roffe: there's a satanic edition!
[13:00] <i2v8an> is anyone here familiar with kubuntu netbook remix?
[13:15] <salty-horse> hi. during upgrade, I encountered dependency problems with cdargs and and gtk-doc-tools on emacsen-common. under what launchpad package should I report it? log: http://pastebin.com/m2f0b4488
[13:17] <salty-horse> also, lots of package use a deprecated dpkg flag: --print-installation-architecture instead of --print-architecture -- should I report that too?
[13:17] <Dr_Willis> somedays i feel depercated
[13:17] <Traveler456> hi there
[13:17] <Traveler456> can smb help a newvie plz
[13:18] <Dr_Willis> !ask
[13:18] <jamieleshaw> Hello, there is an update in Karmic Koala but it's lcoked, why is that?
[13:19] <Dr_Willis> i am now getting the 'ubuntu-desktop' held back :)
[13:20] <Traveler456> ok how do i open files in kubuntu shell as root? i used 'su' but it denied access. 'su root' doesnt work. i am sure i got the right pw
[13:20] <Dr_Willis> use sudo
[13:20] <jamieleshaw> That's the exact same one as me ;)
[13:20] <rsk> Traveler456: use gksudo
[13:20] <rsk> or sudo
[13:20] <Traveler456> ok ill try. cu after reboot. thx
[13:20] <Dr_Willis> and if you are such a beginner to ubuntu that you dont know the basics like that.. you MIGHT not be wanting to use 9.10  since it could break and have other issues at any time
[13:20] <jamieleshaw> !sudo
[13:21] <Dr_Willis> !su
[13:21] <rsk> !root
[13:21] <Traveler456> i use somthing like version 8
[13:21] <Dr_Willis> in short - ubuntu rarely uses 'su'
[13:21] <rsk> Traveler456: then this is the wrong channel, go to #ubuntu
[13:22] <yofel> Traveler456: #kubuntu in your case
[13:22] <Dr_Willis> running the file managers as root.. is a very very bad habbit. :)
[13:22] <jamieleshaw> Dr_Willis: on another note i founf a nice ubuntu look
[13:23] <Dr_Willis> itss best tolearn to do root type tasks via the shell. or  a specific file manager  like mc :)
[13:24] <jamieleshaw> Dr_Willis: Take a look at http://jamieleshaw.co.cc/UbuntuLookixS.png
[13:24] <jamieleshaw> that's my koala
[13:27] <Dr_Willis> I hate docks and the cube. :)
[13:27] <Dr_Willis> dont care for 'dark black' themes either. ;p
[13:27] <Dr_Willis> you need xxx cube caps! :)
[13:28] <jamieleshaw> I like the dock, but what i really like is default look
[13:29] <jamieleshaw> To be honest I only like basic compiz
[13:31] <Bauldrick> I still cant load 2.6.31.x kernel on this laptop from karmic installed on it, I cant even reinstall alpha6 from disk - I'm having to use 2.6.28
[13:33] <jamieleshaw> i'm off, bye doctor willis
[13:39] <penguin42> Bauldrick: What happens if you try the 2.6.31.x kernel?
[13:41] <Bauldrick> just sits there after udev warning - udevd, something like "udevd 873 cant read SYMLINK{unique} in lib/udev/50-defaul-rules
[13:41] <Bauldrick> f1 - f7 does nothing
[13:41] <ArcticAzure> hello
[13:42] <Dr_Willis> ˙sǝɯıʇ ʇɐ uʍop ǝpısdn ǝlʇʇıl ɐ sı ɔıɯɹɐʞ
[13:42] <ArcticAzure> hi
[13:42] <penguin42> Bauldrick: I think lots of people saw the SYMLINK{unique} error but didn't stop us booting
[13:42] <Dr_Willis> I see that error.. and still boots
[13:43] <ArcticAzure> So is it true that karmic will stop working if I install it?
[13:43] <Bauldrick> doesn't boot for me off hdd fully up-to-date or alpha6 off disk
[13:43] <penguin42> Bauldrick: Have you got a bug filed?
[13:44] <Bauldrick> penguin42: not currently, whats causing it
[13:44] <ArcticAzure> I love karmic because it has all the graphical issues 9.04 had fixed! I can actually watch flash videos full screen with no lag, and I can run opengl applications with compiz turned on ^_^
[13:44] <penguin42> Bauldrick: It would be best to file a bug (probably against linux) and put dmesg and lspci from the boot that does work
[13:45] <Dr_Willis> ArcticAzure:  and some people cant even boot it. :)
[13:45] <SandGorgon> I'm having wine and ia32-libs problems in 2.6.31 kernel - anyone else having the same thing ?
[13:45] <penguin42> Bauldrick: Is there anything about your machine that's unusual?
[13:46] <ArcticAzure> Will karmic have customizable login window enabled when it's released?
[13:47] <Bauldrick> penguin42: not really to my knowledge (limited ;) ) - my other problem is that when i boot in 2.6.28 all my toolbars are screwed up (whats the command for printscreen? i could show it)
[13:48] <penguin42> Bauldrick: I'd try booting the 2.6.31 but at grub edit off the 'quiet' and 'splash' bits of the command and see what the last thing it prints is
[13:49] <Bauldrick> I think is it to do with HAL, has that taken over everything in xorg.conf
[13:49] <penguin42> I think HAL does a lot less if anything now
[13:50] <Bauldrick> xorg.conf said hal had taken over my touchpad, thats now broken
[13:51] <penguin42> well one thing at a time; I'd get the kernel sorted first
[13:53] <Bauldrick> penguin42: I'm indeed, off to try that
[13:53] <ArcticAzure> So does karmic have a timer that breaks the system once the timer's over? Ubottu said that it WILL break. So I'm guessing that something makes it stop working somehow.
[13:55] <penguin42> ArcticAzure: You mean a watchdog?
[13:56] <ali1234> ArcticAzure: that statement is just CYA from the developers
[13:56] <SandGorgon> does one need to recompile ia32-libs if one is building a custom kernel ?
[13:56] <anselm> How does it come that in matroska videos embedded pictures are not used any longer to create thumbnails
[13:56] <penguin42> SandGorgon: No
[13:56] <spirit-sight> how do I start Gnome-shell
[13:57] <SandGorgon> penguin42, hmm.. because i'm getting random crashes in wine ever since my 2.6.31 kernel
[13:57] <Dr_Willis> i get thumbnails in my .mkv videos here in the gnome file manager
[13:58] <penguin42> SandGorgon: I doubt it's the ia32 libs
[13:58] <SandGorgon> penguin42, all right
[13:59] <anselm> Dr_Willis: Yes normal thumbnails but if you have artwork (covers) included it should use that instead (in Jaunty it worked that way)
[13:59] <ArcticAzure> the onlyest only problem I have is.... that applications that run on jack sound don't play sound and that's it
[13:59] <Dr_Willis> cant say taht ive evver noticed  that feature then
[13:59] <Dr_Willis> ive never figuredf out how these videos thumbnails are determined
[14:00] <ArcticAzure> Karmic also seems to have fixed the horrid tearing in video and games
[14:01] <anselm> Dr_Willis: you can add covers to mkv files with mkvmerge
[14:01] <Bauldrick> penguin42: it hangs after BEGIN :mounting root filesytem
[14:01] <Bauldrick> BEGIN: Running /scripts/local-top
[14:03] <Bauldrick> which is something todo with initramfs?
[14:05] <penguin42> erm I think it's in there
[14:05] <penguin42> Bauldrick: Normal SATA disc?
[14:05] <spirit-sight> does anyone know how to start the gnome-shell in the ubuntu 9.10
[14:06] <Bauldrick> this is an older laptop, PATA?
[14:07] <anselm> spirit-sight: run in the terminal gnome-shell --replace  to kill the running metacity control+c  in the same terminal brings metacity back
[14:07] <penguin42> Bauldrick: Nod, nothing too unusual then
[14:08] <penguin42> Bauldrick: Do you have a mix of USB stuff plugged in?
[14:08] <Dr_Willis> what is the 'gnome-shell' anyway?
[14:08] <spirit-sight> thanks
[14:08] <Bauldrick> penguin42: currently only usb mouse (as update broke touchpad), but have tried it without, no different
[14:09] <tgpraveen> Dr_Willis: google it. it's a gnome 3
[14:09] <tgpraveen> UI change . lots of screenshots to be found
[14:10] <penguin42> Bauldrick: It's probably best to bug report it - unles speople know it's breaking for people it's even less likely to get fixed
[14:11] <bullgard4> I notice that the editor in mc in Karmic is no longer mc's own editor but nano. Can you tell me why Ubuntu has changed this default editor?
[14:11] <Bauldrick> penguin42: alright, cheers - against linux you suggest?
[14:12] <penguin42> Bauldrick: If it's a driver problem and it's hanging that would be my guess
[14:12] <Dr_Willis> bullgard4:  it seems to be mcedit here.
[14:12] <bullgard4> Dr_Willis: Ah!
[14:15] <ArcticAzure> hello
[14:16] <Dr_Willis> moooos
[14:16] <ArcticAzure> If I were to install karmic, would I be able to update to the release version without having to reinstall ubuntu and everything?
[14:17] <Dr_Willis> thats how ubuntu works ArcticAzure
[14:17] <xguru> ArcticAzure: yes
[14:17] <ArcticAzure> yay
[14:17] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[14:17] <ArcticAzure> And it won't be a dirty update would it?
[14:18] <xguru> only if it is previously dirty....
[14:18] <ArcticAzure> Like leaving old stuff behind
[14:18] <ArcticAzure> outdated things
[14:18] <Dr_Willis> i figure every update is a dirty onw :)
[14:18] <Dr_Willis> one
[14:18] <xguru> ArcticAzure: no it shouldn't and you can always cleanup manually :)
[14:19] <Dr_Willis> I testout the beta.alphas and then do a clean reformat/reinstall about a week or 2 after its released..
[14:19] <Dr_Willis> just seems to work a little better that way
[14:19] <BluesKaj> you can use autoclean to get rid of unneeded stuff
[14:20] <ArcticAzure> would it be best to update with upgrade-manager -d or should I just use the iso image?
[14:20] <Dr_Willis> any iso at this time is proberly a little out of date anyway :)
[14:20] <Dr_Willis> so i doubt if it matters much
[14:20] <xguru> upgrade-manager -d
[14:21] <ArcticAzure> does ext4 work properly? I've been hearing about problems it has.
[14:21] <Dr_Willis> ive not had any issues with ext4
[14:21] <xguru> works fine for me as well
[14:22] <Dr_Willis> not heard of any others in here even MENTION ext4 problems
[14:22] <ArcticAzure> awesome
[14:22] <Dr_Willis> Lots of other issues.. but no ext4 that i recall
[14:22] <penguin42> not for a few months; maybe 2 months ago it was falling on it's arse quite regularly
[14:23] <test34> I'll start using ext4 in a few years
[14:23] <penguin42> test34: Yeh
[14:23] <ArcticAzure> I might update to ext4 then, i think ext3 can be updated to ext4
[14:24] <Dr_Willis> i dident think you gained much by doint that
[14:25] <ArcticAzure> so it doesn't have better performance?
[14:25] <vart> ArcticAzure: It can be, but only newly created files benefit from ext4 features, old file are not
[14:27] <Dr_Willis> so when doing a new install.. use ext4
[14:27] <penguin42> I think even on ext3 on karmic it can use some of the features to mean that it's a bit faster in a backward compatible form
[14:28] <test34> 54tresDUR
[14:28] <test34> ooop
[14:28] <penguin42> now we just have to figure out what that's the password to
[14:30] <test34> it already has been changed ;)
[14:33] <CE2> hi, are there known problems with networkmanager in 9.10alpha6?
[14:34] <CE2> it seems I don't have any "networkmanager" process started on my system
[14:34] <CE2> and knetworkmanager doesn't display any available networks :-/
[14:34] <ActionParsnip> ArcticAzure: you also dont get the full ext4 benefits with a converted fs
[14:34] <ChogyDan> CE2: have you tried iwlist scanning?
[14:35] <CE2> yes, works perfectly
[14:35] <CE2> it seems networkmanager itself isn't running
[14:35] <CE2> when I try /etc/init.d/network-manager start it tells me it has been converted to an upstart job
[14:35] <roffe> CE2, my wireless didn't work a couple of days ago, but I could update it with my ethernet
[14:36] <ActionParsnip> CE2: use bum to check the service is configured to run
[14:36] <ActionParsnip> CE2: i had ths yesterday. I had to boot to live cd to update networkmanager tothen copy the debs to the internal disk to reinstall :(
[14:36] <CE2> but "start network-manager" says "start: Rejected send message, 1 matched ....."
[14:37] <CE2> would it work to update through ethernet?
[14:37] <CE2> are the packages in the repos working?
[14:38] <CE2> after all, i am quite shocked about the low quality of ubuntu's alpha releases.
[14:38] <CE2> Fedora is way more experimental, but I had less troubles
[14:38] <CE2> however, I guess Kubuntu is better suited for my girlfriend
[14:39] <ActionParsnip> CE2: its alpha, what do you expect
[14:39] <CE2> well, I am on fedora-rawhide which isn't even alpha ;)
[14:39] <CE2> but it starts superfast, I really enjoy that :)
[14:40] <CE2> great work
[14:40] <ActionParsnip> the alpha works 100% here sine alpha2
[14:40] <ActionParsnip> since
[14:40] <CE2> i thought you had to tinker with networkmanager too?
[14:41] <ArcticAzure> the alpha seems to work very nice for me except for lmms/ardour/other jack based sound applications
[14:41] <spirit-sight> is there a gnome-shell room IRC
[14:42] <ActionParsnip> CE2: no real biggy, i use static IP so i use interfaces file usually. I'm just testing networkmanager
[14:42] <CE2> ok ;)
[14:42] <ActionParsnip> makes the system boot faster as you dont have to load the app, start the service or wait for dhcp
[14:42] <penguin42> nm is being a pita for me, I'm having to manually select the setting that used to be the default
[14:43] <ArcticAzure> i might even get rid of my windows partition if wine gets good enough
[14:45] <ActionParsnip> ArcticAzure: what do you run in wine?
[14:45] <ArcticAzure> games
[14:46] <Dr_Willis> truely 'critical' applications
[14:46] <Dr_Willis> :)
[14:46] <eagles0513875> ArcticAzure: what version of wine are you on ?
[14:46] <ali1234> wine isn't reliable enough for truely critical applications. i have to run those in virtualbox
[14:46] <eagles0513875> i have see the latest dev version of wine actually fix some bugs that the stable version doesnt
[14:46] <ArcticAzure> the latest one
[14:46] <ActionParsnip> ArcticAzure: from the wine repo?
[14:46] <ArcticAzure> yeah
[14:46] <ActionParsnip> nice
[14:46] <eagles0513875> the latest stable version or dev version ArcticAzure
[14:46] <ArcticAzure> dev version
[14:46] <ActionParsnip> could shell ouyt for cedega or crossover office
[14:47] <ArcticAzure> i tried running half life 2 and garry's mod and portal but they run really slow and look bad, and braid won't even start
[14:48] <Dr_Willis> Hmm. Braid works hwere in wine
[14:50] <ActionParsnip> ArcticAzure: there are tonnes of guide for HL2, seems to run excelently. appdb shows platinumm rating: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=2890
[14:50]  * Crashbit ¡ıɥ
[14:50] <ActionParsnip> ArcticAzure: you have to edit the wine registry a little
[14:51] <ArcticAzure> it's probably just my video card
[14:51] <ArcticAzure> it ran okay on windows, with some slowdowns in places
[14:52] <ActionParsnip> platinum rating is pretty much perfect
[14:53] <ActionParsnip> could just play quake live :D
[14:53]  * ArcticAzure prys his old video card chip out with a screwdriver and superglues a stolen better video card and cries because it doesn't work
[14:55] <ArcticAzure> well, i bet wine will work better in karmic since everything else seems to
[15:02] <Dr_Willis> i can get aobut 80% of the games i try worki8ng in wine
[15:07] <BluesKaj> interesting , someone told me most games are written in unix and layered for windows . is this true?
[15:07] <penguin42> BluesKaj: I doubt it
[15:09] <SandGorgon_> has anyone gotten Broadcom wl.ko working with 2.6.31 kernel ?
[15:10] <BluesKaj> <---not a gamer so itreally doesn't matter personally
[15:10] <Dr_Willis> g@mer
[15:12] <BluesKaj> SandGorgon_, laptop ?
[15:12] <SandGorgon_> BluesKaj, yup.. i'm getting a problem with "module_layout" in my dmesg while modprobe
[15:13] <diverse_izzue> Can somebody try if Totem plays dvd's for them? It used to for me, now i simply get a "Could not read from resource" error.
[15:14] <ActionParsnip> diverse_izzue: do you have libdvdcss2 instaled?
[15:16] <diverse_izzue> eek, pretty embarrassing, forgot that after reinstalling. i'll try that
[15:16] <darkham> do you are on time for the 29 oct. with a working network manager?
[15:17] <ActionParsnip> diverse_izzue: its on the medibuntu rep
[15:17] <ActionParsnip> o
[15:17] <BluesKaj> SandGorgon_, some kernel modules were stripped in the last few updates and replaced overnight , dunno if your broadcom driver is one of them
[15:17] <SandGorgon_> BluesKaj, all right..
[15:23] <diverse_izzue> I have libdvdcss2 installed now, but Totem still hangs when i try to play a dvd. can someone please try if that happens for them, too?
[15:24] <ActionParsnip> diverse_izzue: does it play in other players?
[15:24] <diverse_izzue> ActionParsnip, i'll try, but have to restart, right now i cannot even open my cd tray :-(
[15:25] <BluesKaj> diverse_izzue, Totem isn't the most reliable player around , dragonplayer or VLC are more up to date and reliable IMO
[15:25] <BluesKaj> oh well
[15:25] <ActionParsnip> BluesKaj: all players use the same common plugins so if one can play it usually the others can
[15:26] <BluesKaj> yeah, but some player don't handle the plugins as well as some others
[15:26] <BluesKaj> players
[15:27] <Dr_Willis> i find totem rather... pathic.. :)
[15:33] <diverse_izzue> vlc fails as well, i have a feeling something could be wrong with libdvdnav?
[15:33] <diverse_izzue> in fact if i tick "without menus" in vlc, it starts playing
[15:34] <dns53> gnome-shell does not come with a menu entry in gdm, should it ? should i file a bug?
[15:35] <Ubunux> bye
[15:42] <ActionParsnip> dns53: sure, you can also use alacarte to add one if you wish
[15:54] <dv-> Hello. Anyone else experiencing Xorg and evince using lots of ram in the alpha?
[15:55] <Dr_Willis> diverse_izzue:  mount the dvd so you can access the files. then try the play directory feature in vlc/other players
[15:56] <Dr_Willis> or just use dvd::rip and rip the thing to avi :)
[15:56] <diverse_izzue> Dr_Willis, you're not helping :-)
[15:57] <diverse_izzue> if somebody could please just check whether their karmic box plays a DVD?
[15:57] <Dr_Willis> i pertty mych only pop in a dvd long enough to rip it
[15:57] <Dr_Willis> I dont even have any dvd videos handy
[15:57] <diverse_izzue> that's ok, there are 278 people on this channel...
[15:58] <Dr_Willis> run the players from a terminal, see what their error messages say exactly? might be a clue
[16:01] <karbak> The keyboard shortcuts dialog seems to be missing the shortcut for the "run application" dialog .. can't change it from the default Alt-F2 any more.
[16:03] <gabspeck> hello everyone
[16:03] <gabspeck> so, I was giving empathy a try, and it suprised me that it cannot even block contacts...
[16:07] <virtuald> and people always see me as offline
[16:11] <arand> Well, pidgin is returning it seems...
[16:12] <musikgoat> *has returned
[16:14] <ActionParsnip> pidgin rocks
[16:14] <gabspeck> i can see some potential in empathy, but it isn't mature enough yet...
[16:14] <leftyfb> carrier is better
[16:15] <gabspeck> carrier?
[16:15] <leftyfb> carrier is the fork of pidgin which puts back features that the arrogant pidgin devs remove
[16:15] <gabspeck> like?
[16:16] <leftyfb> http://funpidgin.sourceforge.net/content/features
[16:17] <leftyfb> my biggest reason is the protocol icons
[16:17] <leftyfb> i prefer to see what service someone is signed onto instead of a useless green orb
[16:18] <leftyfb> that feature is in every multiprotocol im client out there including gaim/pidgin until a certain point
[16:18] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: is that such a crucial thing?
[16:18] <leftyfb> for me, yes
[16:19] <leftyfb> and just because a feature isn't "crucial" doesn't mean it needs to be removed
[16:19] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: its abstracted away as its not important, you can contact them using a common interface
[16:19] <gabspeck> the pidgin version shipped with karmic has removed this feature?
[16:19] <ActionParsnip> i dont see why its a thing but i guess its different tastes
[16:19] <leftyfb> ActionParsnip: you sound like one of the close-minded pidgin devs
[16:19] <gabspeck> cause i still have protocol icons in jaunty..
[16:19] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: i like abstraction, thats all
[16:19] <leftyfb> gabspeck: no, you have icons to the right
[16:20] <leftyfb> adding them in addition to is a hack work-around and just adds clutter
[16:20] <arand> Hmm, seems like No pidgin after all: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin/+bug/437109
[16:21] <leftyfb> ActionParsnip: that's fine, that's called a preference. Which is why this feature should be a preference to turn on and off. I'm even fine with it being off by default. But don't take the choice away from me.
[16:21] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: agreed
[16:21] <dv-> huh. GNOME is all about taking choice away from you :p
[16:21] <leftyfb> dv-: which is why i'm seeing it fade slowly away as my preferred dm
[16:22] <leftyfb> if I wanted choices taken away from me, i'd use windows
[16:22] <leftyfb> or mac
[16:23] <leftyfb> Don't know why dumbing things down to no features seems to be the popular choice among devs these daysd
[16:23] <gabspeck> I used to be a faithful Kubuntu user until I got fed up with all the bugs and weird crashes
[16:23] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: http://merwin.bespin.org/pidgin/#Download ;)
[16:23] <leftyfb> guess it's easier to optimize your code by removing everything under the sun than to actually learn how to code properly
[16:24] <gabspeck> most of the time I don't feel gnome takes choice away
[16:24] <dv-> yeah it's fine most of the time
[16:24] <leftyfb> ActionParsnip: that's not the only feature being put back into pidgin by way of the carrier project .. but thanks. I'm pretty sure that's the code they used to put that one feature back in.
[16:25] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: just showing its poissible, but i see yuor point
[16:25] <leftyfb> "here, go make your own" seems to be the answer from those devs a lot of the time as well
[16:26] <leftyfb> or "submit a bug report" to which they'll just ignore/close/disagree with based on their own close-minded opinion on what users want
[16:27] <gabspeck> wait a minute, these blog posts are from 2007, and right now I'm looking at my contact list with all its pretty protocol icons... how come ?
[16:27] <leftyfb> gabspeck: you see protocol icons to the right of your buddies
[16:28] <gabspeck> oh
[16:28] <dv-> My problem with ubuntu is that while it works most of the time, when it doesn't I have no idea what to do about it. When I was running OpenBSD everything was pretty clear and simple and well documented, but in Ubuntu there's just layer upon layer upon layer of crap and no one knows how it's all supposed to fit together
[16:28] <leftyfb> added in addition to the pointless green orbs on the left
[16:28] <leftyfb> adding clutter and a lame "compromise"
[16:28] <wastrel> ubuntu
[16:28] <gabspeck> heh
[16:28] <gabspeck> well that's fine for me..
[16:29] <penguin42> dv-: Figuring out how all the *kit's and things go to gether is very hard - and it seems to be quite cliquey to find out the details
[16:29] <gabspeck> my main reason to use protocol icons is for e.g., some contacts use the same e-mail address for multiple networks, like a gmail.com account for both MSN and Google Talk
[16:30] <dv-> e.g. when I'm copying files to usb disks, it will often stop with "0 seconds remaining" for ten or more minutes. No idea what to do about it
[16:30] <gabspeck> dv-: how good is OpenBSD these days? haven't tried it in a while
[16:30] <dv-> when I log in, the Xorg resolution is set randomly and I have to correct it every time
[16:30] <dv-> etc
[16:30] <wastrel> i don't care about protocol icons because i only use aim
[16:31] <dv-> gabspeck: I stopped using it with 3.4 when I bought a modern computer :/
[16:31] <dv-> but I have fond memories of it
[16:31] <gabspeck> ooh
[16:31] <gabspeck> I mistook it for FreeBSD, the friendly BSD distro
[16:32] <gabspeck> *intended to be friendly
[16:32] <dv-> I thought OpenBSD was a bit friendlier, really
[16:33] <gabspeck> but you used it with GNOME ?
[16:33] <dv-> nope. I used ion2
[16:34] <BWARG> im having trouble with mysql
[16:34] <musikgoat> BWARG: see, told you :)
[16:34] <BWARG> its saying its installed
[16:34] <BWARG> but its saying its not
[16:34] <BWARG> giving this error "ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)
[16:34] <BWARG> "
[16:34] <ActionParsnip> pcbsd is good too
[16:35] <BWARG> i tried rolling back
[16:35] <BWARG> i tried deleting the .debs in /var/cache/apt/
[16:35] <BWARG> its not installing it
[16:36] <joaopinto> BWARG, you really don't seem to have the know-how advised for someone using an alpha release
[16:37] <joaopinto> BWARG, that error message tells you it was unable to connect, which is not the same as not being installed
[16:37] <joaopinto> have you checked that mysql is running ?
[16:37] <BWARG> yes
[16:37] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: do you have a ppa for carrier. I'll give it a shot
[16:37] <BWARG> it fails to start
[16:37] <thiebaude> hi everyone
[16:37] <joaopinto> BWARG, have you checked the log ?
[16:37] <BWARG> yes
[16:37] <BWARG> http://pastebin.com/m3df2d170
[16:38] <BWARG> mysqld.sock doesnt exist
[16:38] <leftyfb> ActionParsnip: unfortunately, no. There's only the 2.5.5-1 .deb from the website. I built 2.5.7 from source as it was my only option.
[16:39] <ActionParsnip> seems to only be 32bit
[16:40] <ActionParsnip> i'll compile
[16:43] <BWARG> ?
[16:44] <joaopinto> BWARG, I am going to update my karmic vm to check if there is an issue with mysqld
[16:45] <eagles0513875> joaopinto: fyi im noticing that results vary from a vm to an actual install
[16:45] <eagles0513875> joaopinto: bugs in my vm arent the same as those on a physical machine
[16:46] <joaopinto> eagles0513875, right, when we are talking about hw related bugs, which is not the case
[16:47] <eagles0513875> im just saying even software for me seems to be different as well
[16:50] <joaopinto> eagles0513875, there are rare bugs which are hard to reproduce between difference installations regardless of being VM or physical, as for common software bugs, a VM should be as valid as a real physical system, unless there is the VM is buggy
[16:51] <Komischung> hi
[16:51] <eagles0513875> joaopinto: agreed
[16:52] <Komischung> aptitude wont reconfigure "rsyslog" correctly, so i tryed to remove the package -> http://nopaste.org/p/aNFE1nsRm
[16:52] <joaopinto> Komischung, lang=C command
[16:52] <penguin42> vm's normally work OK, they do tend to end up testing a more restricted set of 'hardware' though
[16:52] <joaopinto> to get it in english
[16:54] <leftyfb> anyone know how to get usplash enabled?
[16:55] <Komischung> joaopinto, the output is still in german
[16:56] <yofel> Komischung: LANG=C command
[16:56] <joaopinto> ah, sudo
[16:56] <joaopinto> you need sudo -E to keep the LANG var
[16:56] <Komischung> im root ^^
[16:57] <joaopinto> ok, so, LANG=C command should work
[16:57] <yofel> Komischung: you could als try to ask in #ubuntu-de+1 ;)
[16:57] <yofel> s/als/also
[16:57] <Komischung> ;)
[16:57] <joaopinto> LANG=C apt-get remove package
[16:58] <joaopinto> BWARG, when you mean mysql stopped working, was after upgrading from jaunty to karmic ?
[16:59] <yofel> Komischung: why did you abort dpkg? Did it take too long?
[16:59] <BWARG> dpkg aborted itself
[16:59] <BWARG> it worked untill yesterday
[16:59] <BWARG> i have no idea why it didnt
[16:59] <Komischung> yofel, yes
[16:59] <BWARG> i updated yesterday thats the only thing i cn think of
[17:00] <BWARG> i just updated again though and it still doesnt work
[17:00] <yofel> hm.... lemme check what the scripts do
[17:00] <Komischung> well, i cant remove the rsyslog.deb file from /var/cache/apt/
[17:00] <Komischung> no such file...
[17:00] <BWARG> i tried to roll back and it didnt want to
[17:00] <joaopinto> Komischung, that will not help you, cache is not used during a package removal
[17:00] <Komischung> but thats strange isnt it
[17:01] <darkham> network manager will work the 29 october?
[17:01] <joaopinto> darkham, network manager was working the last time I  have checked
[17:01] <Komischung> and what about the pre-removal-script and stuff like that?
[17:01] <joaopinto> Komischung, if that .de error ir a removal script error, you want to remove from /var/lib/dpkg/info/
[17:02] <darkham> joaopinto: :) ... it can't save a manual network
[17:02] <joaopinto> I mean, just the package you want
[17:02] <joaopinto> darkham, have you searched for the bug report about it ?
[17:02] <darkham> joaopinto: i'm using today's daily build and i can't set a manual in any way
[17:03] <darkham> joaopinto: i deleted the existing one and i create a new, nt nothing
[17:03] <joaopinto> i will check once my vm update finishes :P
[17:03] <darkham> the only work is dhcp
[17:03] <joaopinto> when you mean it doesn't work, it doesn't save your changes ?
[17:04] <BWARG> i didnt use it untill i got updated from jaunty
[17:04] <BWARG> how would i roll back from karmic?
[17:04] <Komischung> so how to remove the deb file anyway?
[17:05] <leftyfb> BWARG: you don't
[17:06] <Komischung> ...i try to boot with an live-cd...
[17:06] <yofel> Komischung: what happens when you run 'sudo stop rsyslog' ?
[17:07] <Komischung> well its not installed....unkown job...
[17:09] <yofel> Komischung: tried to reinstall it?
[17:09] <Komischung> yes same problem
[17:10] <Komischung> maybe a damaged deb-file
[17:10] <yofel> then make a backup and then delete /var/lib/dpkg/info/rsyslog.prerm
[17:10] <yofel> then try again
[17:11] <joaopinto> BWARG, you can't rollback from a release upgrade, only reinstalling
[17:11] <Komischung> i deleted all rsyslog-files there
[17:11] <Komischung> but i cant remove the deb file
[17:11] <Komischung> i think there the problem
[17:11] <BWARG> *starts migrating all files to backup partition*
[17:12] <joaopinto> BWARG, Karmis is for testing, not for productive use
[17:12] <BWARG> well i figured you dont have many people trying to make a home server on it so any problems i have would be interesting to the dev team
[17:13] <joaopinto> it is interesting, if you can affford to break the server :)
[17:13] <joaopinto> right now instead of rolling back you should be filling a bug report :)
[17:13] <yofel> Komischung: then run 'echo \#\!/bin/sh > rsyslog.prerm && chmod +x rsyslog.prerm' in /var/lib/dpkg/info/ as root, then try again
[17:13] <leftyfb> and then wait around to get it fixed to help them decide if the fix works
[17:13] <BWARG> im fairly decent at file carving so im not too afraid of breaking the system unrecoverably
[17:14] <Blizzerand> Is there any possible way of installing karmic without any media ( CD , USB drive) and now in as a virtual machine .
[17:14] <BWARG> an .iso file?
[17:14] <leftyfb> Blizzerand: PXE/network
[17:14] <BWARG> wait ... on a virtual machine or THEOUGH a VM?
[17:14] <leftyfb> that's how I install everything
[17:14] <joaopinto> Blizzerand, it depends on the VM tecnhology that you use, vbox and vmware allow you to use an iso file
[17:16] <yofel> Blizzerand: if you use kvm you could use 'ubuntu-vm-builder'
[17:16] <Blizzerand> joaopinto : I believe  you didn't get my question . I meant not in a virtual environment but in my hard drive
[17:16] <joaopinto> oh, you mentioned "virtual machine"
[17:16] <penguin42> Blizzerand: What's your computer currently running?
[17:16] <BWARG> you use the update
[17:17] <Blizzerand> penguin42 : Lol why do you ask
[17:18] <penguin42> Blizzerand: Well it would be very different if it was Windows or if it was Jaunty or Plan/9
[17:18] <Blizzerand> penguin42 : I am not running Jsunty but another Linux distro . But its dual booted with jaunty
[17:19] <Blizzerand> !kvm
[17:19] <BWARG> boot up jaunty and use the update
[17:19] <Blizzerand> yofel : I am not interested in virtualization
[17:21] <penguin42> Blizzerand: So just update your jaunty - run sudo update-manager -d   and it should let you do it - now, remember it's still Alhpa and it might break horribly
[17:21] <coz_> hey guys...are there any major issues  in karmic so far?  such as  applications not working  ie  compiz  ..cairo dock   easystroke  etc... I bi passed gutzy because it was  not worth the effort at the time... so I guess I am asking if karmic is going to be another gutsy?
[17:21] <amortvigil> hi
[17:21] <penguin42> coz_: Mostly it's OK; there are some stuff for some people
[17:21] <AlanBell> coz_: well it is looking pretty good at the moment
[17:22] <coz_> ok cool... any major issues with particular applications reported  yet?
[17:22] <AlanBell> depends on your hardware more than applications
[17:22] <amortvigil> coz_:  there was an x problem
[17:22] <Blizzerand_> BWARG : Will things break if I update ,even from a pure jaunty install
[17:22] <coz_> amortvigil,   has that been solved/
[17:22] <amortvigil> think so
[17:23] <BWARG> i dont know...they didnt for me
[17:23] <coz_> mm
[17:23] <BWARG> at least until i started doing things to it
[17:23] <penguin42> apps mostly look ok; there seem to be a random set of network manager bugs (normal), a random set of sound problems (normal), and there isn't much of an interface for configuring gdm at the moment
[17:23] <amortvigil> coz_:  i believe it did
[17:23] <AlanBell> coz_: I have an issue on an intel card with a 2048 wide monitor with compiz
[17:23] <BWARG> yeah at the start i had a prob with pulse audiop
[17:23] <coz_> AlanBell,   any solutions or workarounds  offered for that?
[17:23] <penguin42> AlanBell: Is it a single monitor you have?
[17:23] <BWARG> you just restart the service
[17:23] <AlanBell> but another xorg-server-intel landed today so I need to retest
[17:24] <coz_> AlanBell,  ok
[17:24] <AlanBell> penguin42: yup 2048x1152
[17:24] <BWARG> lol nice
[17:24] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: hey man, compiling carrier is fun. Did you have an error with the generated make file?
[17:24] <penguin42> AlanBell: Fun resolution
[17:24] <AlanBell> samsung syncmaster 2343BW
[17:24] <BWARG> tiny icons much?
[17:24] <leftyfb> ActionParsnip: need to run autoconfig first
[17:24] <penguin42> AlanBell: Yeh I believe it's getting fairly common on the 23"
[17:25] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: yeah i ran autogen and finally got configure to roll
[17:25] <BWARG> someone in the area is giving away a 53" tv
[17:25] <leftyfb> sorry, autogen :)
[17:25] <leftyfb> been a while
[17:25] <BWARG> cause the psu is broken on it
[17:25] <penguin42> AlanBell: There used to be a thing on some Intel's that they could only do 3D on 2048 horizontal accross or less
[17:25] <BWARG> im so going to use that as my monitor
[17:25] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: but I'm getting: Makefile:977: *** missing separator. Stop.
[17:25] <leftyfb> odd
[17:25] <penguin42> BWARG: Fun
[17:25] <AlanBell> penguin42: yes, that is the max texture size, but it works on Jaunty (although maximised windows have a white title bar)
[17:25] <coz_> BWARG,  sounds  big  you will have to sit across the room from the monitor lol
[17:26] <BWARG> games will be so fun to play
[17:26] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: i'm gonna hit autogen again
[17:26] <coz_> BWARG, my nephew bought an Aquos  36"  for his system   all I can say is   wow !
[17:26] <penguin42> AlanBell: Fun - I run a 1920x1080 as an external
[17:27] <coz_> BWARG, my guess is ..however... the resolution is going to suck on that
[17:27] <penguin42> AlanBell: And an internal that I logically put underneath it so I don't have >2048
[17:27] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: uits going now
[17:27] <ActionParsnip> very strange
[17:27] <BWARG> its supposed to be 720p
[17:28] <coz_> BWARG,   you are still going to have a  problem with resolution     but it should look cool
[17:28] <BWARG> youd have to be one really lazy person to give away a tv that large because the psu is broken
[17:29] <BWARG> you could ebay the parts for more than the cost of the tv
[17:29] <coz_> for sure
[17:33] <ali1234> BWARG: great, i'll start my new business buying new TVs and then selling them for scrap on ebay
[17:33] <BWARG> buy cars they sell more
[17:33] <penguin42> BWARG: It's amazing how much stuff is scrapped that's trivially repairable
[17:33] <BWARG> i sold parts off my old 323 for more than i paid for it
[17:34] <BWARG> cause alot of the parts are no longer made
[17:34] <penguin42> BWARG: Of course it's entirely possible that what he didn't tell you was that he dropped it and ran over it and then the PSU stopped working
[17:34] <BWARG> lol in that case ill take it and retrieve the flyback and scrap the rest
[17:35] <penguin42> BWARG: If it's 53" it won't be CRT surely?
[17:35] <ali1234> flyback? in a flatscreen? lol
[17:35] <BWARG> hmmm he said it was really deep
[17:35] <BWARG> *looks at post*
[17:35] <ali1234> it's projection though
[17:35] <ali1234> *then
[17:36] <penguin42> oh, if it's a projection then you may as well throw it
[17:36] <BWARG> yeah on second thought im not grabbing that it wont fit through the door
[17:36] <ali1234> the don't make 53" CRTs... not for TVs anyway
[17:36] <BWARG> lol its not worth it
[17:36] <BWARG> thers no pic
[17:44] <duffydack> sound is still an abortion I see
[17:46] <tgpraveen> duffydack: :( many people have had it much better than earlier releases
[17:46] <tgpraveen> duffydack: u having this prob since karmic only?
[17:46] <duffydack> sound has been perfect with every release
[17:47] <ActionParsnip> carrier installed
[17:47] <duffydack> I always wondered how people had so many issues with sound, till now.. I`m one of em.  its completely different that jaunty, the mixer (or lack of) doesnt work properly.
[17:48] <ActionParsnip> duffydack: never had a sound issue with linux personally
[17:49] <duffydack> neither have I till now
[17:49] <duffydack> Have to stick with jaunty if this is how it is now
[17:51] <amortvigil> has anyone come across some 1's after the update?
[17:52] <ActionParsnip> 1s?
[17:52] <penguin42> where?
[17:52] <amortvigil> lol in the dutch ubuntu channle is this gey asking for help lol "11leuk  na1 upgrade nu iedere kee1r een 1chten"
[17:52] <duffydack> its only a laptop (well a inspiron 9100 so more like desktop replacement) but the speakers are pretty decent and it has subwoofer and with a winamp presets in xmms music is really nice, but now with this new sound utility which is very basic to me, depending what output i choose the volume is very loud at a very low setting, and adjusting the volume affects the pcm channel to a point and then the more I raise it another channel star
[17:52] <duffydack> ts to be adjusted.
[17:53] <amortvigil> his update is generating 1's all the time lol
[17:53] <duffydack> I can use alsamixer to get levels ok, but as soon as touch the volume in gnome it blows my head off, and breaks what I set..  really no use at all.
[17:55] <EntropikOne> installing nvidia drivers in 9.10 with 9800GT results in no screens found
[17:55] <EntropikOne> can anyone help?
[17:57] <ActionParsnip> EntropikOne: try these: http://www.ubuntugeek.com/howto-install-nvidia-190-25-beta-drivers-in-ubuntu-jauntyintrepidhardy.html
[17:57] <zicada> anyone been able to get KMS working with r700 ?
[17:57] <EntropikOne> ActionParsnip: will do, i'll be back with results
[18:02] <joaopinto> can someone check a bug on software center ?
[18:02] <DanaG> hah, dialog box layout fail: http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/Screenshot-Applying%20changes-1.png
[18:02] <DanaG> oh, and for some reason, apt-listchanges runs twice every time I upgrade packages.
[18:03] <c_korn> does anyone else have this problem with ubuntu software center in a non-virtual installation of karmic ? http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/25829/screenshot_001_QG22Eu.png you need to scroll down and up the page
[18:03] <yofel> joaopinto: fire away
[18:04] <AlanBell> is there a new GDM theme in the pipeline?
[18:04] <wastrel> what's ubuntu software center
[18:04] <c_korn> walmis: it is currently called ubuntu software store. but I think it will be renamed
[18:04] <bullgard4> "The author of gnome-power-manager has removed the "suspend" and "hibernate" actions from clicking on the icon in the tool bar." (See Launchpad bug #385445). How should I now suspend or hibernate my Ubuntu Karmic computer?
[18:05] <wastrel> when i hit my power button i get the pop up with all the choices
[18:05] <joaopinto> yofel, look at pidgins info on softwara center, make the window small so that you get a vertical scrollbar
[18:06] <bullgard4> wastrel: What is you gnome-power-manager version?
[18:06] <joaopinto> scroll down and up, the pidgin icon should be broken
[18:06] <wastrel> 2.28.0-0ubuntu1
[18:07] <joaopinto> yofel, let me know the result
[18:07] <wastrel> joaopinto: yes i'm seeing that too
[18:07] <yofel> joaopinto: yup, pixel garbage
[18:07] <joaopinto> ok, reporting it, tks
[18:07] <wastrel> joaopinto: if i click inside the window it redraws properly
[18:08] <joaopinto> yup, the scroll action is missing a redraw
[18:08] <bullgard4> wastrel: Ah, mine too! That is new to me.  --  Thank you for your help.
[18:09] <amortvigil> what will change for now till beta ?
[18:10] <duffydack> someone wanna see my desktop recording to show you the sound channels all messed up when adjusting volume?  I want sound like I have in jaunty :(
[18:12] <diverse_izzue> bullgard4, system-> shut down... or just close the lid
[18:13] <bullgard4> diverse_izzue: GNOME > System does not show a menu item "Shut down". What do you mean?
[18:14] <diverse_izzue> bullgard4, mine does... weird
[18:14] <diverse_izzue> oh...
[18:14] <diverse_izzue> sorry
[18:14] <diverse_izzue> you have this status applet thingie on the right end of your panel?
[18:14] <diverse_izzue> if tha'ts active, then the system menu doesn't show the shutdown item
[18:15] <diverse_izzue> but maybe this thing on the right does?
[18:16] <yofel> this thing == fast-user-switch-applet
[18:16] <bullgard4> diverse_izzue: Yes I do. And clicking on it, I find the menu items 'Suspend' and 'Hibernate'.  --  This is what I was looking for.  --  Thank you.
[18:17] <diverse_izzue> yofel, thanks :-)
[18:17] <diverse_izzue> bullgard4, sure
[18:28] <duffydack> http://www.duffydack.karoo.net/out.ogv (10meg)  can someone take a look at my desktop recording regarding sound levels,
[18:28] <duffydack> maybe someone elses is the same..
[18:38] <arvind_khadri> hi, how do i copy a file from a ssh-server onto my machine?
[18:42] <penguin42> arvind_khadri: scp
[18:42] <penguin42> arvind_khadri: scp username@ssh-server:pathtofile filenamehere
[18:43] <AlanBell> arvind_khadri: places-connect to server, service type ssh
[18:44] <penguin42> yeh that also works
[18:44] <arvind_khadri> thanks got it :)
[18:47] <penguin42> can someone tell me what /var/run/pm-utils/pm-suspend/storage/parameters says for them?
[18:51] <penguin42> anyone?
[18:55] <AlanBell> --quirk-no-chvt
[18:56] <penguin42> hmm mine also has --quirk-vga-mode-3  I wonder where it gets that from
[18:57]  * penguin42 goes to get food
[19:09] <arvind_khadri> why doesnt transmission work?its not downloading at all...
[19:09] <arvind_khadri> rather its pretty slow in finding peers..
[19:10] <ankur> Hi, did anyone had any luck booting to 9.10 alpha 6 version using USB?
[19:10] <mauri> dolphin is not albe to mount ntfs partitions
[19:10] <jbuncher> arvind_khadri, do you have the relevant ports forwarded?
[19:11] <arvind_khadri> jbuncher, port forwarding is for incoming, right?
[19:11] <CrocoJet> new ubuntu (9.10) came with kernel 2.6.32 ?
[19:11] <jbuncher> arvind_khadri, not sure
[19:11] <jbuncher> CrocoJet, should be .31
[19:11] <CrocoJet> ok
[19:12] <ankur> I had a problem booting from USB, I was encountering the error /dev/sr0: no medium found
[19:12] <mauri> using thunderbird is not possibile to send email? is it an already knew bug?
[19:13] <yofel> CrocoJet: definitely 2.6.31
[19:13] <jbuncher> mauri, you're encountering that in karmic
[19:13] <jbuncher> ?
[19:14] <mauri> jbuncher: yes
[19:14] <jbuncher> mauri:  I haven't encountered that, are you sure you have your settings correct?  I was able to send mail in thunderbird as of Friday.
[19:14] <mauri> jbuncher: i'm trying to change outgoing servers
[19:15] <mauri> jbuncher: but it is still the same
[19:16] <mauri> jbuncher: two of three server stried were down. Now it works
[19:16] <jbuncher> mauri:  hang on, I'll reboot to karmic and see if I have the same issue.
[19:17] <jbuncher> mauri:  ok then.
[19:17] <mauri> jbuncher: just now im albe to send email, thanks
[19:17] <mauri> jbuncher: i've have a 2 little problem with dolphin
[19:18] <robin0800> I see they have now fixed the ALT F2 problem happy days
[19:18] <mauri> jbuncher: it is not albe to mount ntfs partitions
[19:19] <virtuelv> is the current status still that theyr
[19:19] <jbuncher> mauri:  sorry, I don't really use kde at all, so I don't know much about troubleshooting dolphin.
[19:19] <virtuelv> that GMA500 is going to be missing?
[19:19] <mauri> jbuncher: ok thanks
[19:20] <robin0800> mauri: why not try #kubuntu or #kde channels
[19:20] <yofel> robin0800: this channel is #kubuntu+1 too
[19:21] <robin0800> yofel: But dolphin is a kde application
[19:22] <mauri> robin0800: I didn't konw if it could be karmic problems or kde 4.3.1
[19:22] <yofel> robin0800: yes, and nautilus is a gnome app and we still help people with nautilus probs in here
[19:23] <robin0800> yofel: There's not much choice if you install ubuntu you get gnome
[19:23] <yofel> mauri: any error when klicking on the ntfs drive
[19:23] <yofel> robin0800: yes, and you get kde if you install kubuntu
[19:24] <mauri> yofel: sorry can you repeat
[19:24] <yofel> and kubuntu karmic support is given HERE
[19:25] <yofel> mauri: how do you try to open the drive? By clicking on the symbol in PLACES
[19:25] <yofel> ?
[19:27] <DanaG> hah, dialog box layout fail: http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/Screenshot-Applying%20changes-1.png
[19:27] <mauri> yofel: I always use dolphin to mount device. Yes simply clikking on the icon. How can I send you a jpg descibed the error appeared
[19:28] <yofel> mauri: maybe bug 395079 ?
[19:29] <mauri> yofel: thank you very much
[19:30] <robin0800> any idea why ubuntu desktop update has been held back whats it waiting for?
[19:31] <jbuncher> robin0800, it wants to remove the ubuntu software store, and replace it with ubuntu software center
[19:31] <jbuncher> robin0800, go ahead and install it through synaptic, it works fine
[19:31] <jbuncher> looks like they just renamed the package
[19:31] <robin0800> jbuncher: So software centre not ready?
[19:32] <jbuncher> robin0800:  It's ready, it's just that since it wants to *remove* a package, by default it won't let the upgrade go through in the "update manager" application.  It will work fine in synaptic.
[19:33] <robin0800> jbuncher: Not with safe-upgrade
[19:34] <jbuncher> robin0800:  that's because safe-upgrade defaults to not removing any packages, I believe.  Just force it through and it should be fine, I already did.  The "software center" is just the software store renamed, works fine.
[19:38] <Adapter> hi catweazle caillean
[19:40] <ryancr> how do you change the gdm login screen?
[19:41] <KnifeySpooney> I upgraded Ubuntu to Karmic and now my desktop effects are disabled (gfx card: Intel 946gz)
[19:42] <KnifeySpooney> help?
[19:42] <amortvigil> KnifeySpooney: yes that true, karmic has AI
[19:42] <KnifeySpooney> AI?
[19:42] <zniavre> ryancr, edit this file > gedit /usr/share/gconf/defaults/16_ubuntu-artwork
[19:42] <amortvigil> if it thinks your pc is to slow it will disable things
[19:42] <DanaG> no, that's not correct.
[19:43] <amortvigil> arteficial intellegence
[19:43] <zniavre> ryancr, and then : sudo update-gconf-defaults
[19:43] <KnifeySpooney> Oh
[19:43] <KnifeySpooney> I have 1GB of ram and the desktop effects ran pretty well on Jaunty
[19:43] <DanaG> no, don't change the defaults.... that's wrong!
[19:43] <DanaG> change the gdm user's settings.
[19:43] <KnifeySpooney> not stellar speed but it was alright
[19:43] <DanaG> Lemme' dig up how.
[19:43] <amortvigil> KnifeySpooney: i am joking
[19:43] <KnifeySpooney> oh :p
[19:43] <KnifeySpooney> it's hard to tell when ubuntu's bein updated so much
[19:43] <zniavre> ryancr,  you should point to a gtkrc theme (default is HumanLogin) from usr/share/themes
[19:44] <amortvigil> KnifeySpooney: i think its because of the upgrade try reinstall your driver
[19:44] <DanaG> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=8014635&postcount=500
[19:44] <KnifeySpooney> Ah, reinstall
[19:44] <KnifeySpooney> thanks
[19:44] <KnifeySpooney> i'll check back
[19:44] <ActionParsnip> yo yo yo
[19:44] <DanaG> THAT is the correct way to change the gdm user's settings.
[19:45] <zniavre> i hope it will be easier later but at the moment it's the only way i found (from artwork team)
[19:46] <ryancr> DanaG: that doesn't give me any options for changing the appearance of gdm
[19:46] <ryancr> zniavre: i do see anything about a gtkrc theme in that file
[19:46] <ryancr> or gdm for that matter
[19:46] <DanaG> weird... it works fine for me!
[19:46] <DanaG> Does it not open gnome-appearance-properties?
[19:47] <ryancr> yes
[19:47] <DanaG> weird.  It opens fine for me.
[19:47] <ryancr> but there are no gdm appearance settings for me
[19:47] <DanaG> What do you mean?
[19:47] <ryancr> just the regular.. background/icons/effects tabs
[19:47] <DanaG> That's exactly what it's supposed to open.
[19:47] <DanaG> But, it's the settings of the GDM user.
[19:48] <DanaG> So, it'll change what applies when at the login screen.
[19:48] <zniavre> > /desktop/gnome/interface/gtk_theme      HumanLogin     > you do not see this line ?
[19:49] <ryancr> ok so that changes the background image of gdm but how do i get the new dark background/multiuser gdm?
[19:49] <DanaG> Go to "Customize".
[19:49] <zniavre> sorry the forum must be right (but it work for me)
[19:49] <DanaG> It's not a listed theme.
[19:49] <DanaG> It has a "controls" part, and a metacity theme.
[19:49] <DanaG> It just doesn't have a metatheme that refers to the two.
[19:49] <DanaG> er, top-level theme.
[19:50] <SandGorgon> I have a modversions issue - however my module version is the same as kernel modversion (http://paste.ubuntu.com/279818/) - could somebody tell me why I'm having "disagrees about version of symbol" errors
[19:50] <ryancr> ah ok, is it "humanlogin' i assume?
[19:50] <DanaG> Yeah, should be.
[19:50] <ryancr> great thank you
[19:50] <DanaG> oh, and to get rid of the accessibility thing that appears and won't go away:
[19:51] <DanaG> click on it to open the dialog, then alt-f2, "xkill", and click the window with accessibility settings.
[19:51] <ryancr> heh great thanks was wondering that
[19:51] <DanaG> grr, great, now I have a local copy of it.
[19:51] <DanaG> Apparently that's for "allow keyboard shortcuts to toggle accessibility"
[19:52] <ryancr> now selecting the controls in the customize window will change the login look but will it change the background too, I only ask because i don't see the gdm background in the background tab
[19:53] <DanaG> ah, you may have to browse manually to it.
[19:53] <DanaG> "add" -- on the backgrounds tab.
[19:53] <ryancr> ok cool
[19:53] <DanaG>  /usr/share/images/xsplash/
[19:54] <ryancr> perfect thanks.. going to test it out
[19:57] <KnifeySpooney> amort: I completely uninstalled xserver-xorg-video-intel and xserver-xorg-video-all then installed, and still nothing
[20:00] <JamesB192> I have a Dell Inspiron 1501 and some update in the last week switched of the GUI. Is this something known about that will go away with text-mode update?
[20:00] <ryancr> DanaG: thanks that worked great
[20:01] <DanaG> It is rather silly that the xsplash doesn't take the gdm wallpaper, or vice versa, automatically.
[20:01] <CyberZet> JamesB192: You have upgraded your kernel to 2.6.31.11 ?
[20:01] <ryancr> yeah
[20:01] <CyberZet> JamesB192: If so, that's one of the main problems
[20:02] <kristian42> For a long time I had this problem where my postscript printer would only print 8 pages. Then it went away with most of jaunty jackalope. But it seems like it just came back with the most recent packages for karmic. Anyone know if there's a fix or issue for this ?
[20:02] <JamesB192> Yes, I have a kernel of that version.
[20:03] <CyberZet> JamesB192: I encounter the same problem, with kernel version 2.6.31-11, right now I don't have time to debug it myself so I currently use 2.6.31-10 , which works just fine.
[20:04] <KnifeySpooney> I upgraded to 9.10 from Jaunty and now my desktop effects can't be enabled
[20:04] <JamesB192> OK. what'd probably be useless would be to set X up to pipe syslog messages to my other box. gotta dig up those man pages.
[20:05] <KnifeySpooney> I'm using an intel 946 gfx card and i have the xserver-xorg-video-intel package installed
[20:05] <KnifeySpooney> reinstalled the package and no dice
[20:06] <KnifeySpooney> anybody know how to fix this?
[20:06] <DanaG> Actually, I think there's a way to remotely syslog stuff, a proper way.
[20:08]  * JamesB192 goes into nomeclature fascist mode, 'you mean a Intel 945 graphics chip for your northbridge?'
[20:08] <scaine> Has anyone got autofs running on their Karmic build?
[20:08] <JamesB192> I haven't got a clue actually.
[20:08] <scaine> Specifically, using autofs to mount their smb shares automatically?
[20:10] <BluesKaj> EntropikOne, JamesB192 , I installed after autofs setting up NFS , but it's not working
[20:10] <KnifeySpooney> James: Uhh, not sure. I'm not too sure the specifics of my card but it's built into my computer, and it's called by lspci: Intel Corporation 82946GZ/GL Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02)
[20:11] <BluesKaj> oops sorry wrong name , scaine yes but it's not wqorking'
[20:13] <scaine> BluesKaj : apparently there's a fix for smbclient, but I'm still seeing all my shares as read-only when autofs mounts them...
[20:13] <scaine> BluesKaj : But if you're using for NFS, it's probably unrelated to your issue.
[20:14] <amortvigil> what is the real benefit of karmic against jaunty?
[20:15] <Tekno> amortvigil: http://ubuntumanual.org/posts/247/10-things-new-about-ubuntu-karmic-koala-worth-taking-note-of
[20:15] <IdleOne> karmic will have Telepathy ( going to read our minds )
[20:15] <BluesKaj> scaine, yeah , i thought i could use autofs to automount the network shares but no luck there
[20:15] <KnifeySpooney> I upgraded to 9.10 from Jaunty and now my desktop effects can't be enabled
[20:16] <KnifeySpooney> I'm using an intel 946 gfx card and i have reinstalled the xserver-xorg-video-intel package
[20:16] <KnifeySpooney> Still doesn't work, any thoughts on why?
[20:17] <anselm> KnifeySpooney: do you have all compiz packages installed
[20:18] <KnifeySpooney> as far as i know, the desktop effects were working before I upgraded from jaunty
[20:18] <KnifeySpooney> it seems like compiz is working.. my keyboard shortcuts that work through compiz are still working
[20:19] <dupondje> how can I request a new upstream version into Karmic ?
[20:19] <dupondje> or is it to late already ?
[20:20] <joshposh> When Karmic boots, it starts the usual terminal session in the text console, but not GDM. I have to manually ALT+F7 to switch to x-org. Only after that the x-server start normally. Why is that so and how to fix it?
[20:22] <BluesKaj> joshposh, have you updated today ?
[20:22] <yofel> KnifeySpooney: any errors in Xorg.0.log?
[20:22] <joshposh> BluesKaj: no. today the updates seem broken
[20:22] <KnifeySpooney> Yeah, a few
[20:22] <JamesB192> I blame kernel 2.6.31-11 partially 8-)
[20:23] <KnifeySpooney> here's my thread with Xorg.0.log and xorg.conf: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8015880
[20:25] <BluesKaj> joshposh, the stripped kernel modules that caused the login probs in yesterday's updates have been replaced and fixed in today's updates..well mostly anyway
[20:25] <scaine> Blueskaj : Well, I use autofs on my Jaunty laptop and it works a treat.  But on Karmic, that smbclient bug is killing it.
[20:26] <joshposh> BluesKaj: ok, thank you
[20:26] <AlanBell> dupondje: new version of what?
[20:27] <BluesKaj> scaine, my karmic laptop is running very slow with NFS , but haven't updated yet
[20:27] <yofel> KnifeySpooney: do you really have something like card0 in /dev/dri/ ?
[20:28] <KnifeySpooney> yofel: I ran $ sudo ls /dev/dri and got cannot access /dev/dri: No such file or directory
[20:28] <KnifeySpooney> But i have /dev/card0
[20:28] <yofel> not good...
[20:28] <scaine> Blueskaj : Yeah, I think I saw a thread about slow NFS performance on ubuntuforums...
[20:29] <BluesKaj> scaine, ok , I'm gonna update the laptop now ...
[20:30] <funkyHat> Has the user switcher applet just changed completely, or am I loading the wrong applet?
[20:30] <dupondje> AlanBell: SynCE
[20:31] <yofel> KnifeySpooney: hm... udev bug maybe? I don't have /dev/card0 here, so maybe it ended up at the wrong place
[20:31] <KnifeySpooney> should I try copying it or moving it over to /dev/dri?
[20:31] <billybigrigger> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[20:31] <billybigrigger>   erlang-base-hipe: Conflicts: erlang-base but 1:13.b.1-dfsg-2 is installed.
[20:31] <billybigrigger>   erlang-base: Conflicts: erlang-base-hipe but 1:13.b.1-dfsg-2 is to be installed
[20:32] <billybigrigger> anyone else get that dependancy problem within the last couple of days? or just me?
[20:32] <billybigrigger> haven't been around much in the last couple of weeks so i don't know if this is common
[20:32] <yofel> billybigrigger: just you
[20:32] <billybigrigger> yofel, thanks :P
[20:33] <KnifeySpooney> yofel: I dont know much about udev (dunno what it is), is there a way to reinstall it?
[20:33] <billybigrigger> Description: Erlang/OTP virtual machine and base applications
[20:33] <yofel> KnifeySpooney: I don't know too much about udev too, I only know that all files in /dev are generated by udev on boot
[20:33] <billybigrigger> never heard of this, has anyone else?
[20:34] <yofel> billybigrigger: I have erlang-base installed here, but not erlang-base-hipe
[20:34] <billybigrigger> looks to be a part of the meta package ubuntu-desktop
[20:35] <billybigrigger> i can't aptitude safe-upgrade because of this dependancy problem :(
[20:35] <yofel> billybigrigger: are both actually installed or just one of them?
[20:35] <ryancr> So I was trying out empathy.. but it doesn't seem to work with the message indicator applet or have the adium themes
[20:35] <billybigrigger> just erlang-base is installed, hipe isnt
[20:36] <ryancr> About says  2.28.0
[20:36] <ryancr> is there something else I need to install?
[20:36] <KnifeySpooney> yofel: I think my issue may be with Ubuntu-X, i'll do some looking around
[20:37] <yofel> KnifeySpooney: maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/IntelPerformance#Problem:%20/dev/dri/card0%20is%20missing
[20:37] <billybigrigger> yofel, should i purge erlang-base?
[20:38] <yofel> billybigrigger: maybe run aptitude in interactive mode and check what tries to install erlang-base-hipe?
[20:40] <billybigrigger> interactive mode?
[20:40] <billybigrigger> :P can't see anything about that option
[20:41] <yofel> billybigrigger: how about you just type 'sudo aptitude' and see what you get :P
[20:41] <billybigrigger> yofel, learn something new everyday, never seen this before haha
[20:42] <KnifeySpooney> yofel: I think i found it, going to reboot and see if it works - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdrm/+bug/430876
[20:42]  * yofel wonders why everybody thinks that aptitude == apt-get while it's aptitude >> apt-get *sigh*
[20:42] <guntbert> billybigrigger: I resolved it by removing one of them with aptitude
[20:42] <IdleOne> billybigrigger: aptitude why package I think will do it
[20:43] <billybigrigger> i A couchdb        Depend erlang-base (>= 1:13.b.1-dfsg) | erlang-base-hipe (>= 1
[20:43] <billybigrigger>                    s      :13.b.1-dfsg)
[20:44] <yofel> that should only install one of them...
[20:45] <DanaG> hipe?  what's that?
[20:47] <billybigrigger> ok this is starting to get annoying :P
[20:47] <billybigrigger> purged both, aptitude still won't safe-upgrade
[20:47]  * cwillu pounces BUGabundo 
[20:48] <billybigrigger> same error message, so i installed erlang-base-hipe, and erlang-base, and still same error
[20:57] <joshposh_> Hi channel, Karmic doesnt boot to x-org, it only boots to an ordinary text console. I have to manually switch to the seventh console by ALT+F7. After that, GDM starts normally. Btw, I have the latest updates installed. Why does Karmic not boot normally?
[20:58] <ActionParsnip> joshposh_: is it a new install?
[21:00] <joshposh_> ActionParsnip: I installed 2 weeks ago
[21:01] <ActionParsnip> joshposh_: did you verify the ISO you downloaded? Did you verify the CD once first booted to?
[21:01] <joshposh_> at first it worked normally, then after some upgrade it got broken. I use autologin btw.
[21:02] <cwillu> does it work if you turn off autologin?
[21:02] <ActionParsnip> joshposh_: what happened just before it started failing
[21:03] <joshposh_> ActionParsnip: I did not verify the CD. I dont think this is necessary since it worked before the updates. I cant remember the date when it started to fail.
[21:03] <joshposh_> cwillu: good question. I will try that.
[21:04] <ActionParsnip> joshposh_: true, yuo should always verify the cd though, bad CDs make bad installs
[21:05] <joshposh_> yes. I'm off to some reboot now.
[21:07] <JamesB192> my Karmic Kubuntu complained of a missing dev node /dev/fb0 or some such when it did that. 'startx' worked though.
[21:08] <ActionParsnip> !karmic | JamesB192
[21:08] <ActionParsnip> oops
[21:08] <Rods_Tiger> Karmic Ubuntu Netbook Remix doesn't work according to the instructions for making a usb drive on OS X - it's incapable of booting, and it misses each time, simply going through to the internal SSD on the netbook. The previous 9.04 UNR didn't have this problem with USB drives.
[21:08] <ActionParsnip> my bad
[21:08] <ActionParsnip> need coffee
[21:08] <ActionParsnip> JamesB192: if you can get the exact device, i'll see what i can find
[21:08] <joshposh_> Still having the same problem. Turning off autologin didnt work
[21:09] <KnifeySpooney> My upgrade from jaunty to karmic left the /dev/dri folder missing, and card0 (which should be in /dev/dri/card0) is in /dev/
[21:09] <JamesB192> 1,3,7-trimethylxantine, oh what it does to me...
[21:10] <ActionParsnip> KnifeySpooney: does a symlink make it ok?
[21:11] <JamesB192> '(EE) open /dev/fb0: No such file or directory' is what I found in the log from a little under 7 hours in the future.'
[21:12]  * JamesB192 blinks, 'my computer is prescient. or I need to set up the clock right.'
[21:12] <cwillu> JamesB192, pastebin the entire log
[21:13] <cwillu> apt-get install pastebinit; pastebinit /var/log/dmesg
[21:13] <KnifeySpooney> ActionParsnip: I made one, i'll try checking by restarting X
[21:13] <ActionParsnip> JamesB192: seems common
[21:14] <ActionParsnip> JamesB192: i'll let yuo know what i find
[21:14] <DanaG> JamesB192: looks like time-zone issues.
[21:14] <ActionParsnip> JamesB192: someone got it fixed with: sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[21:14] <DanaG> I've had "last time is in the future" stuff... where it'll be calling UTC, PDT, or vice versa.
[21:15] <JamesB192> where is the option to change the local machines hw clock to/from UTC/local?
[21:16] <ActionParsnip> JamesB192: are you using a SiS VGA card?
[21:16] <cwillu> JamesB192, hwclock has options to do that, and /etc/default/... has the system settings relevant to the task
[21:17] <JamesB192> most (all) machine converting from windows will be local timed hwcock.
[21:17] <ActionParsnip> lol @ hwcocl
[21:17] <JamesB192> No, my video chip is an ATI northbridge.
[21:17] <ActionParsnip> ok cool, theres a bug with the same error but for sis
[21:18] <JamesB192> /var/log/kdm.log -> http://pastebin.com/f133459c2
[21:19] <dupondje> jaiks :(
[21:19] <cwillu> ActionParsnip, smells like a udev change
[21:19] <dupondje> huge queue on Karmic PPA builders :(
[21:19] <cwillu> JamesB192, /var/log/dmesg?
[21:19] <JamesB192> dmesg -> http://pastebin.com/f64bee9ad
[21:20] <Rods_Tiger> has anyone anywhere managed to actually make a working USB drive with Karmic UNR on, using OS X?
[21:20] <ActionParsnip> cwillu: kinda
[21:21] <DanaG> hmm, is it possible to netboot an ubuntu livecd?
[21:21] <DanaG> that is, boot from tftp?
[21:21] <ActionParsnip> Rods_Tiger: mac os has the dd command
[21:21] <cwillu> DanaG, not out of the box afaik, that would be quite useful though
[21:21] <ActionParsnip> Rods_Tiger: just dd it over like in ubuntu
[21:21] <DanaG> yeah, especially with gigabit ethernet.  =þ
[21:21] <KnifeySpooney> ActionParsnip: Thanks! A symbolic link at /dev/dri/card0 worked. Now how do I set udev to do this correctly on boot?
[21:21] <DanaG> I can set up a tftp server, but I'd need a compatible disk.
[21:21] <DanaG> er, image.
[21:22] <ActionParsnip> KnifeySpooney: erm, does the link not stay after reboot?
[21:22] <KnifeySpooney> Oh
[21:22] <KnifeySpooney> I don't know
[21:22] <Rods_Tiger> yes I know it has the dd command, it had the dd command when I was doing it with 9.04 USB drives, but now, using the same procedure, it doesn't work with 9.10 USB drives.
[21:22] <KnifeySpooney> haven't used a symlink before :p
[21:22] <cwillu> DanaG, the live cd would need to be configured to use nfs, which I think doesn't play well with the rest of the setup or something along those lines
[21:22] <KnifeySpooney> I'll reboot and see
[21:22] <ActionParsnip> KnifeySpooney: submit a bug too :D
[21:22] <cwillu> DanaG, there was discussion on the mailing list a few years back discussing the issues, I don't have the link handy though
[21:22] <DanaG> hmm, no way to just load it all into memory all at once?
[21:22] <DanaG> hmm, can you at least tftp-boot the full alternate cd?
[21:23] <cwillu> heh, tftp doesn't have error detection afaik :)
[21:23] <vistakiller> anyone knows where kmail storage settings expect .kmail?
[21:23] <cwillu> not sure I'd want to see what happens tftp'ing 700mb :)
[21:24] <yofel> ActionParsnip: nothing you change in /dev survives a reboot since it's a tmpfs and it's contents are generated by udev
[21:24] <Rods_Tiger> I suspect that nobody anywhere in the world has successfully made a working Karmic UNR USB drive - it simply doesn't work anymore, using exactly the same instructions that used to with 9.04
[21:24] <ActionParsnip> yofel: i see, i wasnt aware. Learned something new today
[21:24] <Rods_Tiger> the netbook simply whizzes past it, failing to stop and boot from it
[21:25] <cwillu> Rods_Tiger, do you know for a fact that the netbook will boot from that particular usb stick?  (not every machine will boot from every usb stick)
[21:25] <ActionParsnip> Rods_Tiger: check your bios can boot usb
[21:25] <Rods_Tiger> well, it was doing it perfectly fine from a 9.04 one the other day
[21:25] <cwillu> with the same stick?
[21:25] <Rods_Tiger> what on earth? did the BIOS suddenly get changed somehow?
[21:26] <Rods_Tiger> of course same stick
[21:26] <cwillu> could be, just check it :p
[21:26] <Rods_Tiger> I'm using the boot menu
[21:26] <cwillu> and it doesn't show up I'm guessing
[21:26] <Rods_Tiger> look, you can find all sorts of peripheral reasons that this is happening, or you can just accept that the 9.10 UNR doesn't work and the 9.04 did
[21:26] <Rods_Tiger> nothing else has changed
[21:27] <Rods_Tiger> same netbook, same Mac, same USB drive, same process, different file
[21:27] <tsoncul> Rods_Tiger: I have a working karmic UNR USB disk
[21:27] <cwillu> Rods_Tiger, look, you could make up all sorts of excuses why were shouldn't be thorough this one time, or you could just accept the fact that we don't jump to conclusions, and the faster you give answers with less attitude, the quicker you'll get actual help
[21:27] <Rods_Tiger> made on OS X?
[21:27] <tsoncul> Rods_Tiger: Win XP
[21:27] <ActionParsnip> Rods_Tiger: did you verify the file was ok with md5 check?
[21:27] <Rods_Tiger> then that's irrelevant - I'm talking about OS X
[21:27] <cwillu> Rods_Tiger, here I am looking through bug reports with your symptoms, and I'm really tempted to just go do laundry instead
[21:28] <tsoncul> cwillu: I'm waiting for the dryer to get emptied.
[21:28] <Rods_Tiger> so what do I do?
[21:28] <cwillu> tsoncul, as am I :p
[21:29] <tsoncul> Rods_Tiger: Anyway, I had a problem at first because I didn't format the flashdrive first
[21:29] <tsoncul> Rods_Tiger: Might be worth a try
[21:29] <Rods_Tiger> I've done that
[21:29] <ActionParsnip> Rods_Tiger: if the image is bad it may have corruption in the bootable bit of the image
[21:29] <Rods_Tiger> I've downloaded it many times, just to be sure
[21:29] <tsoncul> Do an MD5 check
[21:29] <vistakiller> anyone else have this bug to kmail? http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161044
[21:30] <ActionParsnip> Rods_Tiger: it could be corrupt every time. you need to check
[21:30] <Rods_Tiger> could be
[21:30] <aliendude5300> How come I can't select certain packages for update even though they are listed?
[21:31] <tsoncul> aliendude: Their dependencies might not have made it to the archives yet
[21:31] <cwillu> aliendude5300, means they're dependant on other packages that can't be updated for whatever reason;  if it offers to do a 'partial update' when you click update, then let it do it
[21:31] <aliendude5300> In particular -- epiphany-browser, mysql-server, mysql-server-5.0, and ubuntu-desktop...
[21:31] <aliendude5300> No partial update offered.
[21:31] <tsoncul> ubuntu-desktop is on queue for me too
[21:31] <cwillu> okay, just wait a day and do it again
[21:32] <aliendude5300> tsoncul, cwillu: how can I check what dependencies the packages have?
[21:32] <tsoncul> sudo apt-cache --help
[21:32] <aliendude5300> They have been like that for several weeks now.
[21:32] <tsoncul> I can't remember the option now
[21:32] <KnifeySpooney> I think it has to do with /dev/dri not being a directory unless I make it one.. then the directory doesn't appear after reboot
[21:32] <yofel> apt-cache depends <package>
[21:33] <aliendude5300> dylan@DYLANTAYLOR-PC:~$ sudo apt-cache depends mysql-server
[21:33] <aliendude5300> mysql-server
[21:33] <aliendude5300>   Depends: mysql-server-5.1
[21:33] <tsoncul> yofel: thanks.
[21:33] <yofel> KnifeySpooney: give me a moment to write something up
[21:33] <aliendude5300> dylan@DYLANTAYLOR-PC:~$ sudo apt-cache depends mysql-server-5.0
[21:33] <aliendude5300> mysql-server-5.0
[21:33] <aliendude5300>   Depends: mysql-client-5.0
[21:33] <aliendude5300>   Depends: libdbi-perl
[21:33] <KnifeySpooney> yofel: Ok thanks
[21:33] <aliendude5300>   Depends: perl
[21:33] <aliendude5300>   Depends: libc6
[21:33] <aliendude5300>   Depends: libgcc1
[21:33] <aliendude5300>   Depends: libmysqlclient15off
[21:33] <aliendude5300>   Depends: libncurses5
[21:33] <aliendude5300>   Depends: libreadline5
[21:33] <aliendude5300>   Depends: libstdc++6
[21:33] <aliendude5300>   Depends: zlib1g
[21:33] <aliendude5300>  |Depends: debconf
[21:33] <aliendude5300>   Depends: <debconf-2.0>
[21:33] <aliendude5300>     cdebconf
[21:33] <aliendude5300>     debconf
[21:33] <aliendude5300>   Depends: psmisc
[21:34] <aliendude5300>   Depends: passwd
[21:34] <aliendude5300>   Depends: lsb-base
[21:34] <aliendude5300>   Depends: mysql-server-core-5.0
[21:34] <aliendude5300>   PreDepends: mysql-common
[21:34] <aliendude5300>   PreDepends: adduser
[21:34] <Crashbit> aliendude5300: ?¿
[21:34] <aliendude5300>   PreDepends: debconf
[21:34] <aliendude5300>   Suggests: tinyca
[21:34] <aliendude5300>   Suggests: mailx
[21:34] <aliendude5300>     bsd-mailx
[21:34] <aliendude5300>     heirloom-mailx
[21:34] <aliendude5300>     mailutils
[21:34] <aliendude5300>   Suggests: mysql-doc-5.0
[21:34] <ActionParsnip> aliendude5300: use pastebin
[21:34] <aliendude5300>   Recommends: libhtml-template-perl
[21:34] <aliendude5300>   Conflicts: mysql-server
[21:34] <aliendude5300>   Replaces: <mysql-enterprise-server-5.0>
[21:34] <aliendude5300>   Replaces: mysql-server
[21:34] <aliendude5300> hmm...
[21:34] <aliendude5300> mysql-server-5.0 conflicts with mysql-server.
[21:34] <aliendude5300> mysql-server requires mysql-server5.1 not 5.0
[21:34] <ActionParsnip> !paste | aliendude5300
[21:34] <aliendude5300> sorry :/ didnt realize how many lines I was copying until I pasted it...
[21:34] <Flakeparadigm> Hello
[21:35] <aliendude5300> What
[21:35] <JamesB192> just out of curiousity when was the last change to udev or its accompanying init scripts?
[21:35] <aliendude5300> oops sent that to the wrong channel :/
[21:35] <cwillu> Rods_Tiger, is it only the unr that doesn't work?
[21:36] <tsoncul> aliendude: There was some chatter a couple of days ago about mysql. As far as I can remember, they're waiting for some updates on dependencies, and there is a problem somewhere
[21:36] <tsoncul> aliendude: I did'n pay too much attention at the time, sorry.
[21:36] <Flakeparadigm> With the Nvidia drivers I am able to use composting, but I cannot configure multiple displays. The Nvidia control panel requires xorg.conf (Which no longer exists) and the KDE settings manager doesn't recognize a second montor.
[21:36] <Flakeparadigm> what should I do to get the second monitor to work?
[21:37] <tsoncul> aliendude: It'll probably update when the dependencies are also updated.
[21:37] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, you need to use an xorg.conf; nvidia-settings can write a useable one
[21:37] <aliendude5300> When will the changes that are supposed to make Ubuntu boot in 10 seconds be applied? It takes like 30 seconds now... :/
[21:37] <Jordan_U> Flakeparadigm: You can create an xorg.conf, it's still used if it exists
[21:37] <aliendude5300> Also, what
[21:37] <aliendude5300> What's the progress on xsplash
[21:37]  * aliendude5300 can't type today :(
[21:38] <KnifeySpooney> I thought they wanted 10-second times by Lucid
[21:38] <cwillu> aliendude5300, 10 seconds is a target, not a known set of updates that merely have to be applied
[21:38] <Jordan_U> aliendude5300: It's not a single group of changes, it's a process. The 10 second goal is for 10.04
[21:38] <KnifeySpooney> and the 10 second goal IIRC is for a netbook running remix?
[21:39] <arand> and the 10s is only for a specific model, which sopposedly should be a good average..
[21:39] <Flakeparadigm> Jordan_U and cwillu Ok,thanks
[21:39] <aliendude5300> I've noticed an increase of boot time on my Core i7 machine, and a decrease on my Intel Core2 Quad Machine...
[21:39] <Jordan_U> KnifeySpooney: I think it's for a specific netbook running standard Ubuntu, not UNR
[21:39] <aliendude5300> The increase on the Core i7 is HUGE. It used to boot in like 15 seconds now it takes 30-45
[21:39] <arand> It's meant for intel atom+SSD Hd
[21:39] <KnifeySpooney> ah
[21:39] <Jordan_U> Flakeparadigm: np
[21:40] <cwillu> aliendude5300, check your /etc/init/ and make sure there's no jobs that you thought you disabled that have appeared there
[21:40]  * cwillu picks a piece of glass out of his foot, and wipes the blood off the floor :(
[21:40] <KnifeySpooney> yofel: i have to run for now, thanks for the help so far
[21:40] <cwillu> owwie
[21:40] <Flakeparadigm> JordanI get a "Failure to parse existing X configuration" after "touch /etc/X11/xorg.conf"
[21:41] <Flakeparadigm> Jordan_U^
[21:41] <arand> I don't know if there's anything more planned for xsplash, but I sure hope the is, since atm the switch xsplash-facebrowser-xsplash-desktop is _very_ ugly.
[21:41] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, have you run nvidia-settings yet?
[21:41] <aliendude5300> On the Core2 Quad machine, here is my /etc/init folder: http://pastebay.com/57571
[21:42] <aliendude5300> I'll have to get on the other machine to check that...
[21:42] <Flakeparadigm> cwillu: yes
[21:42] <arand> Also the fact that it has no progress bar makes it look really crude...
[21:42] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, run nvidia-settings, go to "X Server Display Configuration", get things working, and then do "Save to X Configuration File", and save the file somewhere.  Then sudo cp /home/flake/thatFile /etc/X11/xorg.conf and reboot
[21:43] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, get multiple monitors working from inside that tool first though
[21:43] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, you'll need to set "Configuration" to "TwinView"
[21:45] <aliendude5300> What file contains messages that appear when a system starts up? I think it was something like dmesg
[21:45] <cwillu> aliendude5300, /var/log/dmesg contains what "dmesg" spat out during boot
[21:45] <aliendude5300> Theres some error on my Core i7 Machine that says something like unsupported bios, please report.
[21:45] <aliendude5300> I have my Core i7 machine on now... Im gonna VNC into that and get that file...
[21:46] <Flakeparadigm> cwillu: How do I save it in a custom location?
[21:46] <cwillu> aliendude5300, ugh, vnc? :p  get ssh on there and then just use sftp:// in nautilus :p
[21:46]  * aliendude5300 loves the "Hosts nearby" feature of the default Remote desktop viewer
[21:46] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, why would you want to?
[21:46] <ActionParsnip> aliendude5300: why not ssh, you can pastebni the file and copy the url
[21:46] <ActionParsnip> aliendude5300: much slicker
[21:46]  * aliendude5300 has no idea how to get SSH working and I'd assume it's harder than VNC
[21:47] <cwillu> it's not harder than vnc, and its actually secure
[21:47] <ActionParsnip> aliendude5300: sudo apt-get install openssh-server
[21:47] <ActionParsnip> done
[21:47] <JamesB192> only if you want transperant X forwarding.
[21:47] <ActionParsnip> aliendude5300: then to connect: ssh user@server
[21:47] <aliendude5300> on host machine or guest?
[21:47] <cwillu> well, make sure you've got good passwords, or use certificates instead (which is one config change to disable password logons, and one command to create the certificate)
[21:47] <guntbert> aliendude5300: was that something like : piix4_smbus 0000:00:07.0: SMBus base address uninitialized - upgrade BIOS or use force_addr=0xaddr ?
[21:47] <Flakeparadigm> cwillu: It doesn't save anywhere when I click "Save to X Configuration File" because it fails to parse the existing file.
[21:48] <JamesB192> oh wait, you just have to edit one file.
[21:48] <ActionParsnip> aliendude5300: ssh user@server    on the client
[21:48] <ActionParsnip> JamesB192: x forwarding is default enabled on openssh-server
[21:48] <aliendude5300> installing server using VNC now...
[21:48] <aliendude5300> then gonna try to connect
[21:48] <ActionParsnip> aliendude5300: you can also forward X apps to systems using ssh -X user@server
[21:48] <JamesB192> I guess I'm wrong then.
[21:48] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, save it to a different file
[21:49] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, and don't "merge with existing file"
[21:49] <aliendude5300> what do you mean forward X apps? Like firefox windows? 0.o
[21:49] <aliendude5300> That's sweet
[21:49] <Flakeparadigm> cwillu: So like I asked, how do I save it to a different file then?
[21:49] <ActionParsnip> aliendude5300: yes, the app runs on the remote system but s displayed on the client system
[21:49] <ActionParsnip> is*
[21:50] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, you click "save to x config file", and then pick a different file name in the window that pops up?
[21:50] <aliendude5300> holy crap that's awesome!
[21:50] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, you have to be in "X Server Display Configuration"
[21:50] <aliendude5300> now how do I access the files on the other machine in Nautilus?
[21:50] <cwillu> aliendude5300, if you're familiar with screen, then "xpra" will also be useful to you (basically lets you disconnect windows and reconnect them on different machines)
[21:51] <ActionParsnip> aliendude5300: you can use filesharing with samba etc
[21:51] <cwillu> aliendude5300, address bar:  "sftp://user@ip-or-hostname.local/"
[21:51] <JamesB192> it works great with putty and xming on windows as the client end too.
[21:51] <cwillu> ActionParsnip, if he's got ssh, he can just go to an sftp address
[21:51] <Flakeparadigm> cwillu: that's where I am. When I click "Save to X Configuration File" it gives me the error, and I don't know how to save anywhere else.
[21:51] <ActionParsnip> aliendude5300: you can also run gedit on the remote system and read the files on the system too
[21:51] <aliendude5300> Can I use openssh-server to become the user on the other machine through nautilus file browser?
[21:51] <ActionParsnip> cwillu: that too
[21:51] <ActionParsnip> aliendude5300: sure you can
[21:52] <ActionParsnip> aliendude5300: ssh makes vnc look like a useless slow POS
[21:52] <aliendude5300> $ gedit /var/log/dmesg
[21:52] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, that's odd; which version of nvidia-settings do you have installed?
[21:52] <aliendude5300> (gedit:5741): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:
[21:52] <aliendude5300> ehh...?
[21:52] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, dpkg-query --status nvidia-settings|grep Version
[21:53] <ActionParsnip> aliendude5300: did yu connect with -X
[21:53] <aliendude5300> oh... thats it.
[21:53] <cwillu> aliendude5300, wait
[21:53] <cwillu> wait
[21:53] <JamesB192> yeah, but some users gots to get their GUI.
[21:53] <aliendude5300> omfg is that using my gedit or the the one installed remotely?
[21:53] <Flakeparadigm> cwillu: 180.25-0 (The latest I assume?)
[21:53] <cwillu> aliendude5300, just go to the file in nautilus;  gedit (and pretty much all other gnome apps) can access files over ssh natively via gvfs
[21:53] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, 180.25-0ubuntu1 is what I'm running
[21:54] <ActionParsnip> aliendude5300: on the remote, if you launched it from the ssh session
[21:54] <cwillu> aliendude5300, that'll be faster
[21:54] <[em]matrix>  why doesn't the wireless network connect app for the alpha 6 kubuntu autodetect the encryption type. I mean, what if i don't know the specific type, wpa-personal, wpa-blah blah, wpa-etc, i mean, it is like a guessing game and it will only work if i set the right one.
[21:54] <ActionParsnip> aliendude5300: try opening  a file and analyse the files available
[21:54] <aliendude5300> http://pastebay.com/57572 <-- thats my dmesg on the Core i7 Machine.
[21:54] <Flakeparadigm> cwillu: I had to remove the xorg.conf I made originally
[21:54] <aliendude5300> [   28.418693] acerhdf: Acer Aspire One Fan driver, v.0.5.16
[21:54] <aliendude5300> [   28.418696] acerhdf: unknown (unsupported) BIOS version Gateway/FX6800-01e/R01-A1  , please report, aborting!
[21:55] <aliendude5300> that's the line that says to report it.
[21:55] <aliendude5300> so what should I do?
[21:56] <aliendude5300> I have a launchpad account... should I make a new error on the package acerhdf?
[21:56] <JamesB192> not auto load drivers for the wrong hardware?
[21:56] <lika> hi guys, i bought a new sony laptop, installed kubuntu karmic, and skype on it. mic doesn't work on skype. I turned on all the mixer options. can anyone help?
[21:56] <cwillu> aliendude5300, seems reasonable :)
[21:57] <Flakeparadigm> cwillu: It's all up and working now. Thanks
[21:57] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, \o/
[21:57] <cwillu> aliendude5300, "ubuntu-bug linux" would be a good start (I don't think acerhdf has a separate package, but I could be wrong, in which case it'd be "ubuntu-bug acerhdf-source" or whatever)
[21:57] <cwillu> aliendude5300, ... in a terminal
[21:58] <aliendude5300> What the hell? When I try to report a bug I get taken to a page explaining how to report using apport :/
[21:58] <aliendude5300> How do I turn that off?
[21:58] <cwillu> aliendude5300, ubuntu-bug
[21:59] <Trewas> aliendude5300: that bug has been reported several times already, and is apparently harmless
[21:59] <cwillu> we're discouraging the direct use of launchpad for many classes of bugs, because it just results in a back and forth to get all the required logs uploaded, which ubuntu-bug <package> does automatically
[22:00] <wastrel> woo nice one X just crashed
[22:00] <DanaG> mmmyeah, slow boot... sucks.
[22:03] <nemo> AAAAGH Pulseaudio sucks so very very much
[22:03] <nemo> I have to kill it and restart it 2 out of 3 times before starting a DVD
[22:03] <cwillu> well, no, it really doesn't :p
[22:03] <nemo> otherwise I get stutters
[22:03] <nemo> then there is the freezing on closing totem
[22:03] <nemo> the lockups in wesnoth and hedgewars
[22:03] <nemo> the screwing up of my channels
[22:03] <nemo> the lame ass new interface
[22:03] <cwillu> have you customized any of the pulseaudio config files?
[22:03] <nemo> HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT
[22:03] <nemo> cwillu: tried
[22:03] <aliendude5300> reported that: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/437836
[22:03] <cwillu> nemo, undo those changes
[22:03] <nemo> oh well. back to the dvd in the lameass audio system
[22:03] <nemo> cwillu: those were reverted long ago
[22:04] <nemo> god
[22:04] <nemo> just because a few people need bluetooth or something
[22:04] <nemo> we have to suffer release after release of something that is so not ready for primetime
[22:04] <nemo> just embarassing
[22:04] <nemo> and I'm just keeping it to support people who are suffering through pulseaudio that I know
[22:04] <Flakeparadigm> cwillu: Ok, now my composting isn't working. It says that the required x extensions (XComposite and XDamage) are not available.
[22:04] <nemo> or for hedgewars dev
[22:04]  * nemo sobs
[22:04] <nemo> back to dvd
[22:04] <Flakeparadigm> any ideas?
[22:04] <aliendude5300> Can anyone tell me how to disable redirection permanently upon clicking Report a bug in launchpad?
[22:04] <cwillu> nemo, you do realize that you're actually in the minority?  that it actually works flawlessly for the vast majority of people?
[22:05] <cwillu> aliendude5300, did you read my comment above?
[22:05] <cwillu> aliendude5300, it's a launchpad change
[22:05] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, one sec, let me check my settings
[22:05] <aliendude5300> can it be disabled?
[22:05] <Flakeparadigm> cwillu: Thanks
[22:06] <aliendude5300> I hate it :/
[22:06] <cwillu> aliendude5300, can you disable it?  not that I know of; the way the website works has been changed
[22:06] <cwillu> aliendude5300, is there some reason you can't use ubuntu-bug?
[22:06] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, pastebin your xorg.conf as it is now
[22:06] <aliendude5300> how do I use ubuntu-bug?
[22:06] <cwillu> aliendude5300, ...
[22:06] <cwillu> scroll up, read the instructions I told you :p
[22:07] <aliendude5300> oh...
[22:07]  * aliendude5300 *facepalm*
[22:07] <aliendude5300> I still liked the old launchpad SO MUCH better...
[22:07] <cwillu> that's nice
[22:08] <cwillu> you realize how many bugs just stayed at "incomplete" because required logs never got attached?
[22:08] <aliendude5300> For example, feature requests can't be submitted without appending unnecessary logs any more...
[22:09] <cwillu> that's also nice :p
[22:09]  * cwillu suggests taking this conversation to #launchpad
[22:09] <ryancr> is there an app (installed by default) that will play a source from line-in
[22:09] <cwillu> in the mean time... :p
[22:09] <penguin42> cwillu: Can I ask what do I do in the case of a fail to boot/fail to install bug or where I don't know which package it is?
[22:09] <ryancr> soundrecorder will record line -in but just play it directly
[22:09] <aliendude5300> :(
[22:10] <Flakeparadigm> cwillu: http://pastebin.ca/1581843
[22:10] <DanaG> weird... when I rebooted, after xsplash went away, it showed me the contents of my desktop from before the shutdown.
[22:11] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, did you use twinview or xinerama in nvidia-config?
[22:11] <Flakeparadigm> cwillu: xinerama
[22:12] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, so you missed the part when I said you need to use "twinview"? :;p
[22:12] <DanaG> IT also takes an annoyingly long time to boot.
[22:12] <Flakeparadigm> cwillu: I've used twinview and I don't think there is anything more annoying. haha
[22:12] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, eh?
[22:12] <DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/EliteBook-karmic-20090927-3.png
[22:13] <cwillu> and so you use xinerama, which is the exact same thing minus support for acceleration? :;p
[22:13] <aliendude5300> DanaG: how did you generate that image?
[22:13] <DanaG> bootchart.
[22:13] <DanaG> !info bootchart
[22:13] <Flakeparadigm> cwillu: My acceleration was cut when I tried twinview, before going to xinerama. In jaunty it works fine with xinerama :P
[22:15] <Flakeparadigm> And it's not the exact same thing ;) twinview screws up a bucnh of things like maximizing windows. Maximize something in twinview and it will go across all monitors.
[22:15] <DanaG> any tips for speeding up boot?
[22:15] <aliendude5300> hrmm...
[22:15] <aliendude5300> Parsing /var/log/bootchart
[22:15] <DanaG> It's taking way, way longer than it did in Jaunty.
[22:15] <aliendude5300> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 0
[22:15] <aliendude5300> 	at org.bootchart.Main.render(Unknown Source)
[22:15] <aliendude5300> 	at org.bootchart.Main.main(Unknown Source)
[22:15] <aliendude5300> not working for me :(
[22:16] <DanaG> You have to reboot with it installed, to get a chart.
[22:16] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, no it won't, unless nvidia's internal xinerama-compatible api isn't loaded, which it isn't unless twinview was enabled when x started via xorg.conf
[22:16] <Twigathy> Flakeparadigm: I can maximise windows just fine to one screen using twinview...
[22:16] <Flakeparadigm> weird. I've tried before several times. Let me see again
[22:16] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, tip:  when I tell you to do something with out using any weasel words, you'd wise to do what I say :)
[22:17] <DanaG> weasel words?
[22:17] <aliendude5300> where would that chart be saved?
[22:17] <cwillu> DanaG, "I'm not sure, but I think..."
[22:17] <DanaG> /var/log/bootchart/
[22:17] <DanaG> it's a directory.
[22:17] <Flakeparadigm> cwillu: I was going off of issues I've had before.
[22:17] <DanaG> As far as I'm concerned, sreadahead is a miserable failure.
[22:18] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, http://pastebin.com/f5dc2f704 is my xorg.conf here (on jaunty), I can get you the working karmic config file as well if you like
[22:18] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, http://pastebin.com/f2ce14ced is karmic
[22:18] <bucky> cwillu you mean like the ones in apt-cache show nvidia-180-libvdpau
[22:18] <cwillu> bucky, I'm sorry?
[22:19] <Flakeparadigm> cwillu: everything is ok now. Things have changed since I last set up any configurations. Composting worked in xinerama at one time? oh well
[22:19] <bucky> cwillu nvidia's internal xinerama-compatible api ?
[22:19] <Flakeparadigm> thanks
[22:19] <cwillu> Flakeparadigm, it never did, but it might have been silently disabled at one time
[22:20] <cwillu> bucky, twinview (and mergedfb in the radeon world) contains a compatible implementation of the xinerama api so that maximization onto single screens works properly; always has as far as I can remember
[22:20] <bucky> ic
[22:20] <cwillu> bucky, it's internal to the standard nvidia driver
[22:20] <KnifeySpooney> Does anybody else get icons under the System menu in Karmic?
[22:21] <aliendude5300> too bad you can't turn a computer on remotely :/ That would make SSH/VNC much more practical...
[22:22] <cwillu> DanaG, you don't have a bootchart from before the updates do you?
[22:22] <aliendude5300> would save so much electricity too
[22:22] <lika> how can I install a new theme. for example thnkpnk.tar.gz
[22:22] <DanaG> hmm, when were the init updates?
[22:22] <cwillu> DanaG, less than a month ago :p
[22:22] <cwillu> (not sure)
[22:23] <DanaG> I have some from.... argh, what month is 7?  Damn Caesars, coming around and messing up the month numbering.
[22:23] <DanaG> Ah, July.
[22:23] <DanaG> (Julius Caesar and Augustus Caesar.)
[22:23] <JamesB192> aliendude5300: some of them you can. I forget the details though.
[22:23] <aliendude5300> How do I copy a file from a remote machine to my machine over SSH?
[22:23] <DanaG> scp
[22:24] <DanaG> scp host:path localpath
[22:24] <cwillu> DanaG, it's 9
[22:24] <cwillu> DanaG, okay, let me see it :)
[22:24] <JamesB192> I do remember that I has a minimum hardware requirement and involves the sending of a single ethernet packet.
[22:25] <DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/EliteBook-karmic-20090703-1.png
[22:25] <DanaG> that's a while ago.
[22:26] <DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/EliteBook-karmic-20090801-1.png
[22:27] <ranslate> help
[22:27] <pwnguin> and thats with an fsck
[22:27] <ranslate> is ubuntu nicw?
[22:27] <ranslate> nice
[22:27] <Twigathy> http://twigathy.com/corona-karmic-20090719-1.png <-- I prefer my disk throughput here ;)
[22:27] <ranslate> all sofware works in ubuntu or no
[22:27] <DanaG> Granted, that fsck was one of a tiny, nonused boot partition.
[22:27] <ryancr> does empathy work with adium themes and message-indicator applet?
[22:28] <JamesB192> aliendude5300: I think it was WoL --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake-on-LAN
[22:28] <DanaG> Why is my boot so horribly long?
[22:28] <cwillu> god you're whiny today
[22:28] <pwnguin> because your throughput is crap
[22:28] <diverse_izzue> ryancr, yes and yes
[22:29] <DanaG> hmm, but there's a whole lotta' thrashin' going on.
[22:29] <pwnguin> thrashing == crap throughput
[22:29] <DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/EliteBook-karmic-20090922-1.png
[22:29] <ryancr> diverse_izzue: hmm, I ask because mine does not ;(
[22:29] <DanaG> s/but //
[22:30] <DanaG> Is that before, or after?
[22:30] <KnifeySpooney> For some reason, when I upgraded from Jaunty to Karmic, my /dev/dri/card0 has been moved to /dev/card0, and the /dev/dri/ directory does not exist. Help?
[22:30] <Twigathy> DanaG: it's a bit crazy that you get boots twice as long and I don't have a local disk
[22:30] <pwnguin> its because you dont have local disk
[22:30] <diverse_izzue> ryancr, installing adium themes cannot be done via GUI yet, you have to put them ~/.local/share/adium/message-styles
[22:30] <cwillu> Twigathy, network disk can be blazingly fast if it's coming from ram
[22:30] <pwnguin> crazy ntfs mounts
[22:30] <diverse_izzue> then they become available through the settings dialogue
[22:30] <DanaG> oh, and that 9/22 one is with sreadahead and readahead disabled.
[22:31] <cwillu> DanaG, have you done any io tuning previously that you recall?
[22:31] <DanaG> s/and/or/
[22:31] <DanaG> I don't think so.
[22:31] <ryancr> diverse_izzue: ill try that thanks
[22:31] <pwnguin> DanaG: when was the last time you did a profile run?
[22:31] <cwillu> DanaG, single drive
[22:31] <cwillu> ?
[22:31] <penguin42> KnifeySpooney: I could swear there was someone else who had that - anything else weird about your /dev ? e.g. do you have /dev/pts ?
[22:31] <DanaG> hmm, oddly enough, even on Jaunty, doing a profile made it load too many files -- and actually lengthened the boot.
[22:32] <DanaG> And now sreadahead ("for ssds") has replaced readahead.
[22:32] <DanaG> s/ssd/SSD/
[22:32] <cwillu> DanaG, can you pastebin your fstb?
[22:32] <cwillu> fstab rather
[22:32] <KnifeySpooney> penguin42: Yes, typing 'ls /dev/pts' outputs '0'
[22:32] <aliendude5300> http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7559/familykarmic200909271.png <== WAAY too slow
[22:32] <DanaG> http://pastebin.com/f232a0163
[22:32] <cwillu> thanks
[22:33] <Twigathy> 2 minutes on an i7! O_O
[22:33] <virtuald> danag: are you saying i shouldn't use sreadahead as i don't have an ssd?
[22:33] <pwnguin> aliendude5300: fahcore_78.exe?
[22:33] <DanaG> You can't NOT use it... because now ubuntu-desktop depends on it.
[22:33] <Pad> wtf? Oo
[22:33] <jrgp> I just upgraded to karmic from jaunty and on boot it hangs on "starting init crypto disks"
[22:33] <DanaG> that's folding@home, a Mono thingy.
[22:33] <aliendude5300> .exe?!? that doesnt sound good?
[22:33] <DanaG> yeah, the exe confused me, too.
[22:33] <DanaG> =þ
[22:33] <jrgp> aliendude5300: mono apps always end in .exe
[22:34] <aliendude5300> ... thats annoying
[22:34] <pwnguin> well that will do it
[22:34] <DanaG> oh yeah, I do have data=journal.  I forgot about that.
[22:34] <aliendude5300> reminds me of windblows
[22:34] <DanaG> =þ
[22:34] <DanaG> But all the old ones were the same, with data=journal.
[22:34] <cwillu> DanaG, but is that a recent change?
[22:34] <pwnguin> aliendude5300: you realize that folding@home is starving the rest of boot?
[22:35] <aliendude5300> Anyways, I don't get why my system took 125 seconds to boot on a Core i7 when it takes 10 sec on a freakin Intel Atom Netbook CPU
[22:35] <ryancr> diverse_izzue: great that works.. any thoughts on why empathy doesn't seem to register with message-initicator applet
[22:35] <pwnguin> aliendude5300: you might replace it with a startup script to make folding@home wait 60 second before starting
[22:35] <penguin42> aliendude5300: That's a bit of a difference!
[22:35] <virtuald> aliendude5300: .exe is a nail in the eye reminding you who owns .NET
[22:35]  * aliendude5300 hates .NET
[22:35] <cwillu> DanaG, can you set your root drive to ordered rather than full journalling just for a test?
[22:36] <aliendude5300> mono shouldnt be installed by defauly
[22:36] <penguin42> aliendude5300: Now, to be fair are you running exactly the same thing on your i7 machine and your atom?
[22:36] <aliendude5300> default*
[22:36] <cwillu> DanaG, wondering if it might be more extensive syncing
[22:36] <DanaG> sure.  I just need to dig up the tune2fs flags.  =P
[22:36] <cwillu> DanaG, -o journal_data_ordered
[22:36] <pwnguin> DanaG: it's probably poor layout of your files, internally and together. readahead should do better than that.
[22:36] <aliendude5300> Not my Atom machine... someone said something about Ubuntu meeting a 10 sec goal on an Intel Atom.
[22:37] <aliendude5300> Not sure what the Atom was running.
[22:37] <keldin> copyed my ubuntu 904 into another folder and started the upgrade to 910 failed the alt-f2 upgrade process didnt work, go message that the copy wouldn't be stable so I just deleted, I thought this was releaseing in a week shouldn't this be more stable for upgrade to work?
[22:37] <aliendude5300> Although I do have an Intel Atom Eee Machine running Windows XP... sorry guys :/
[22:37] <penguin42> aliendude5300: I suspect the atom number was for the moblin/ubuntu remix but I don't honestly know
[22:37] <pwnguin> DanaG: there's shell scripts that will parse the readashead list and rewrite the files to hint ext4 to lay them out together
[22:37] <cwillu> DanaG, you may also gain some benefits by tweaking or changing the default io scheduler
[22:37] <jrgp> I just upgraded to karmic from jaunty and on boot it hangs on "starting init crypto disks". does anyone know a work around?
[22:37] <DanaG> I think the significant increase came mostly from the new boot.
[22:37] <aliendude5300> I just think 2 min to boot is way too long for 2009
[22:38] <penguin42> jrgp: What did you have crypted?
[22:38] <pwnguin> DanaG: one check is to try filefrag on the files in /etc/readahead or whatever the file is now
[22:38] <Nattgew> keldin: beta is in a week... final is in a month
[22:38] <penguin42> aliendude5300: Agreed, especially for an i7
[22:38] <DanaG> There is no more /etc/readahead.
[22:38] <keldin> nattgew: thanks for the timeline
[22:38] <pwnguin> aliendude5300: keep in mind that the ten second goal is for the LTS, not karmic
[22:38] <jrgp> penguin42: knowingly nothing. just the ~/.Private folder
[22:39] <aliendude5300> i7 is supposed to be the best right? The PC that I'm talking about was the VERY best PC available at BestBuy when I bought it... it should not take 2 min to boot
[22:39] <jrgp> and my home is on a separate drive; could that be why?
[22:39] <pwnguin> aliendude5300: and you're basically done by 85s
[22:39] <DanaG> oh, and /etc/init.d/rc has concurrency=none
[22:39] <aliendude5300> Especially with i7 and an ATI Radeon 4850HD card
[22:39] <pwnguin> the bootchart waits for the system to idle, and folding@home intentionally doesn't idle
[22:39] <penguin42> jrgp: Curious - I don't know, but if you could boot it off a live CD I'd go and check /etc/crypttab on your filesystem
[22:40] <jrgp> hmm
[22:40] <cwillu> somebody should inform DanaG that concurrency=none is irrelevant under upstart;  it's not an upstart setting
[22:41] <aliendude5300> How do I change F@H to wait 3 min after power on to start so I can get accurate results?
[22:41] <pwnguin> aliendude5300: you know bash?
[22:41] <aliendude5300> a bit...
[22:41] <pwnguin> find the start script that's starting f@h
[22:41] <cwillu> just put a "sleep 3m" at the start of its launcher
[22:41] <aliendude5300> I know a LOT of commands though
[22:41] <aliendude5300> would that be in /etc/init.d?
[22:42] <pwnguin> im guessing its a user thing
[22:42] <aliendude5300> or is it a cron job or something?
[22:42] <KnifeySpooney> penguin42: Do you know much about the /dev/card0 issue?
[22:42] <pwnguin> is f@h even an ubuntu package?
[22:43] <penguin42> KnifeySpooney: No, it works for me
[22:43] <aliendude5300> Is xsplash enabled by default on the newest Karmic Builds?
[22:43] <cwillu> yes
[22:44] <jrgp> penguin42: there is nothing in my /etc/crypttab file
[22:44] <aliendude5300> I was wondering why I still see dmesg info instead of a graphical loader...
[22:44] <SandGorgon> anyone have a broadcom wireless working on a 2.6.31 kernel ?
[22:44] <cwillu> aliendude5300, the first message you see is probably an error or a warning of some sort?
[22:44] <aliendude5300> I have the splash option enabled in GRUB...
[22:44] <aliendude5300> I posted my dmesg earlier, I'll get you the link.
[22:44] <aliendude5300> http://pastebay.com/57572
[22:45] <Nattgew> SandGorgon: yes...
[22:46] <Nattgew> 0b:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4312 802.11b/g (rev 01)
[22:46] <SandGorgon> Nattgew, which card? are u using b43-fwcutter?  my driver loads but doesnt work
[22:46] <yofel> KnifeySpooney: hey, didn't notice when you got back ^^, could try the following as a Workaround (!): add lines 18 and 19 in your /etc/init/gdm.conf . (If you're using Gnome/XFCE)
[22:46] <yofel> KnifeySpooney: http://yofel.pastebin.com/f11b47565
[22:46] <KnifeySpooney> awesome, I'll try that. Thanks
[22:46] <Nattgew> SandGorgon: I think it depends on your card... I'm using bcmwl-kernel-source and bcmwl-modaliases
[22:47] <SandGorgon> Nattgew, which is ur card ?
[22:47] <Nattgew> SandGorgon: 0b:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4312 802.11b/g (rev 01)
[22:48] <pwnguin> aliendude5300: also, the 10sec boot goal doesn't include media tomb or samba. or virtualbox, or dkms.
[22:48] <penguin42> pwnguin: dkms should only happen on upgrade so shouldn't be too big an issue
[22:49] <pwnguin> you might bitch about landscape though
[22:49] <SandGorgon> Nattgew, same as mine.. whew... i have a custom kernel and have not been able to get it working
[22:49] <DanaG> nope, not much difference.
[22:50] <cwillu> DanaG, note that concurrency=none is irrelevant under upstart;  it's not an upstart setting, and so will only affect rc.d jobs
[22:50] <Nattgew> SandGorgon: for some reason it was pretty smooth to get working on my Ubuntu install (at alpha 4) but I installed Kubuntu from alpha 6 and I haven't gotten to see any networks...
[22:50] <cwillu> DanaG, okay
[22:50] <DanaG> oddly enough, in this one, sreadahead didn't appear at all!
[22:51] <SandGorgon> Nattgew, u didnt build ur own kernel , did u?
[22:51] <pwnguin> if you ran profile, it won't
[22:51] <Nattgew> SandGorgon: nope
[22:51] <aliendude5300> Hmm... I just wish it was possible to get more boot performance without sacrificing those services...
[22:51] <aliendude5300> I want to get into the GUI faster.
[22:51] <aliendude5300> But then I can wait for the services to load...
[22:51] <DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/EliteBook-karmic-20090927-4.png
[22:51] <pwnguin> you can use the same sleep trick
[22:52] <nemo> cwillu: lol
[22:52] <nemo> cwillu: hilarious
[22:52] <nemo> vast majority of people
[22:52] <nemo> except for those w/ intel cards
[22:52] <nemo> or nvidia
[22:52] <nemo> or those bugs on bugzilla
[22:52] <nemo> or rants on facebook
[22:52] <pwnguin> replace the script with a "sleep 3m+ some random value, then call the original script"
[22:52] <cwillu> nemo, people who have things working don't rant or post bugs
[22:52] <nemo> cwillu: fact is, ubuntu took something that works, and replaced it with something that works less well
[22:52] <aliendude5300> What does the new xsplash that will be used in the beta look like? Any pics available?
[22:52] <nemo> cwillu: of the 5 people I support, on 6 computers
[22:52] <nemo> cwillu: 4 of them have had pulseaudio issues
[22:52] <nemo> but I guess we're just unlucky
[22:53] <cwillu> nemo, or there's a common fault
[22:53] <nemo> cwillu: completely different hardware
[22:53] <nemo> clean installs
[22:53] <DanaG> oh yeah, and my bootchart is all jumbled, too.
[22:53] <nemo> cwillu: but sure. blame the users/HW
[22:53] <cwillu> (same tech support)
[22:53] <nemo> cwillu: I saw were you were going with that dude
[22:53] <nemo> cwillu: that's why I said blame the users/HW
[22:53] <nemo> cwillu: fact is I barely touch their configurations.  and fact is ubuntu took things that worked
[22:53] <nemo> and replaced them with something that worked less well
[22:54] <DanaG> yeah, such as sreadahead.
[22:54] <nemo> cwillu: yes it added new features, but those new features are useless for the majority of people
[22:54] <cwillu> I'm not blaming the users/hw, I'm blaming you.  As it happens, I spend a couple hours on a regular basis fixing people's sound who got bad advice to remove pulseaudio
[22:54] <nemo> cwillu: pulseaudio should have been only recommended for some cases
[22:54] <nemo> cwillu: I'm a user dude
[22:54] <nemo> cwillu: and I haven't removed pulseaudio off anyone's system
[22:54] <nemo> cwillu: and do tell me what I could have done to screw up their system. I'm just commiserating when things crash
[22:54] <nemo> or stutter
[22:54] <nemo> or freeze up
[22:54] <nemo> or suck up 100% of CPU
[22:54] <penguin42> DanaG: I'm curious about the very lengthy mount.ntfs at 16..32s and the firmware.sh which seems to take 4-5s
[22:54] <Nattgew> nemo: I agree... there are some nice things (finally in Karmic), but it's caused a lot of issues
[22:54] <nemo> and the pulseaudio guys blame it on bugs w/ HW and drivers and this and that
[22:55] <nemo> and it may be completely true, but the fact is they have to deal with it
[22:55] <nemo> pulseaudio simply isn't as reliable yet
[22:55] <nemo> and the rest of us have to put up with it
[22:55] <nemo> its just depressing
[22:55] <cwillu> nemo, and the drivers have been getting fixed, because the people maintaining the drivers have agreed that stuff was broken
[22:55] <nemo> pulseaudio should only have been recommended for people with specific use cases
[22:55] <nemo> such as bluetooth or network sound
[22:55] <nemo> and ONCE that stuff was fixed
[22:55] <DanaG> hmm, that partition is ~150GB, about 99% full right now.
[22:55] <nemo> rolled out to general public
[22:55] <cwillu> as it happens, one of the really useful features that people tend to like is the ability to set application volumes
[22:55] <nemo> cwillu: blaming the HW/drivers/users as pulseaudio folks do is just sad
[22:56] <DanaG> Oh, flat volumes are the only thing I really, really really hate in PulseAudio.
[22:56] <nemo> cwillu: and in exchange I get virtually nonexistent volume control;
[22:56] <cwillu> nemo, when the driver is at fault, what are they supposed to do?
[22:56] <nemo> cwillu: fix it in a non-mainstream branch
[22:56] <nemo> cwillu: like I said, it may be the most awesome sound architecutre ever
[22:56] <nemo> it simply was not ready to be ubuntu default
[22:56] <penguin42> cwillu: For a lot of people pulse has been a nightmare; it's a hell of a lot better than it was say 6 months ago - but frankly for many it's been a disaster, and I realise some of it is driver problems but pulse has pushed the drivers further than anything previously and perhaps they weren't ready for that
[22:57] <nemo> it isn't like you can explain to everyone and their grandmother that the fault isn't pulseaudio, it is them or the HW or interaction w/ SDL or nvidia or whatever
[22:57] <nemo> once this stuff stabilises, then it should have been rolled out
[22:57] <pwnguin> you know, its not like audio wasn't a disaster before pulse
[22:57] <cwillu> penguin42, I'm well aware of that.  But saying it's 90% of users is simply ignorant of statistics:  the only people you hear from are the people with troubles, and the only tech support people you hear from are the folks who got a bad run
[22:57] <pwnguin> "did you check alsaconf for muted channels?"
[22:57] <penguin42> nemo: To also be fair the other way I know people on machines without pulse where audio is sucking - probably due to drivers
[22:57] <nemo> fine. we all just have rotten luck
[22:57] <nemo> penguin42: I've run into that too, to be sure
[22:57] <cwillu> yay for anthropics
[22:58] <nemo> penguin42: is just less frequent. and many times there's something easy I can solve
[22:58] <nemo> penguin42: like HW locking
[22:58]  * cwillu recommends quantum suicide :)
[22:58] <KnifeySpooney> yofel: I just used lines 18 and 19 of your workaround and it still doesn't seem to work
[22:58] <nemo> penguin42: pulseaudio issues I can't even really touch. so I don't. no matter what cwillu suggests about my fixes
[22:58] <KnifeySpooney> it created the /dev/dri directory correctly, but it didn't link card0
[22:58] <nemo> penguin42: only reason I'm still on pulseaudio on this computer is so I can catalog the ways it fails for users of hedgewars
[22:58] <penguin42> cwillu: The pulse guys seem rather ambivilant about helping ubuntu users, and users do end up just feeling like they're getting tossed between pulse/driver/distro hell
[22:59] <nemo> penguin42: hell. the only reason I hacked in an option to not initialise sound system in 0.9.10 of hedgewars was for ubuntu users with pulseaudio
[22:59] <cwillu> penguin42, the initial rollout was horrid, I have lots of sympathy for maintainers when packagers go against their recommended practices
[22:59] <nemo> that way they may not have sound but at least the game doesn't crash/lock up/suck up 100% of CPU
[22:59] <judgen> Howdy, where can i find a package of xdialog for karmic?
[23:00] <nemo> anyway. ranting made me feel better, but it still shouldn'tve been default. that was just a major fail on Ubuntu's part - I suspect some pulseaudio advocates pushed it
[23:00] <cwillu> penguin42, but this with me saying that most people don't actually have problems (which is true)
[23:00] <nemo> even if only 10% of users are having problems that's about 9.5% too many
[23:00] <cwillu> fair enough
[23:00] <penguin42> cwillu: I hear what you are saying about most people being OK but that's not my experience of talking to friends and colleagues, and there seem to be problems on intel hardware rather than anything obscure
[23:01] <DanaG> hmm, I can't figure out what to do next about my boot.
[23:01] <pwnguin> calling intel hda "hardware" is obscuring the problem
[23:01] <nemo> pwnguin: well. yes
[23:01] <penguin42> pwnguin: Please expand?
[23:01] <nemo> software audio drivers
[23:01] <nemo> like winmodems
[23:01] <pwnguin> most of hda is software
[23:01] <nemo> or the hardware "raid" my new computer came with
[23:01] <nemo> that only works in windows
[23:01] <cwillu> DanaG, I was going to suggest a different io elevator as a boot option, but more as another datapoint, I don't expect it to actually fix anythign :/
[23:02] <nemo> but still. those audio cards are in huge numbers of computers
[23:02] <penguin42> pwnguin: What is there to do in software for audio at the lowest level?
[23:02] <nemo> intel is a big platform
[23:02] <DanaG> Yeah, the thing that changed were mostly init script behavior.
[23:02] <cwillu> DanaG, elevator=deadline or elevator=noop
[23:02] <pwnguin> penguin42: decode compressed signals
[23:02] <pwnguin> route signal to outputs
[23:02] <cwillu> DanaG, yes, but I strongly suspect that it's exposing issues rather than being directly to blame
[23:02] <KnifeySpooney> since I upgraded to Karmic, the old logout button at the top has disappeared, and so did the thing that said my username next to it
[23:02] <KnifeySpooney> I tried adding it back to panel but I can't find it
[23:03] <pwnguin> if you were insane, you could output sound on the mic jack of my laptop
[23:03] <cwillu> pwnguin, surround sound :p
[23:03] <penguin42> pwnguin: I'm used to old style sound cards where everything was software - I don't know that any more has moved that way - I know with the Intel stuff there are issues to do with what is wired to what output/input is very much down to the whim of the board designer
[23:03] <djdarkman> Hello, I have a built in USB webcam, that seems to only work ocasionally, is there a way I could disconnect it from the kernel and reconnect it like I was physically doing that?
[23:03] <pwnguin> penguin42: hda "solves" that by letting software configure it
[23:04] <pwnguin> except, now you need to know how the hardware is hooked up, and determine what the hardware is
[23:04] <penguin42> KnifeySpooney: indicator-applet-session may be what you want
[23:04] <cwillu> well, userspace is a better place for that sort of thing, makes figuring things out easier than requiring a kernel recompile :p
[23:04] <penguin42> pwnguin: Sure
[23:04] <penguin42> my sound problems have mostly been pops and clicks that came in around intrepid time and I've never been fully able to get rid of
[23:05] <pwnguin> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jldugger/2356939298/sizes/l/
[23:05] <nemo> maybe pulseaudio could have been an option prompt after install. esp if bluetooth snd was detected.
[23:05] <nemo> s/could have been/should be as soon as possible/
[23:05] <pwnguin> actually, i had to fix a resume bug
[23:05] <pwnguin> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jldugger/2356939930/
[23:05] <penguin42> nemo: Pulse does solve some things - I mean with karmic possibly for the first time ever I've had sound played from Flash AND my music player at the same time
[23:05] <cwillu> nah, it's more important to have a good way forward than to avoid making improvements and fixing long-standing issues in the name of maintaining existing support
[23:05] <pwnguin> the main tric here was to rewrite the boot set with tar
[23:05] <Jordan_U> nemo: I don't think Ubuntu is ever going to prompt users about things like the audio subsystem during a default install.
[23:06] <Ian_> anyone else with ubuntu-desktop kept back?
[23:06] <cwillu> Ian_, yep, give it another day
[23:06] <Ian_> kk
[23:06] <pwnguin> it'd be kinda neat to visualize the disk layout of a boot profile
[23:07] <pwnguin> but i think canonical's assuming SSD with a constant seek
[23:07] <penguin42> DanaG: I'd love to know why dkms appears to have taken about 5s on there - you'd hope it really shouldn't if it was already build
[23:07] <joaopinto> penguin42, I can do that with jaunty
[23:07] <penguin42> joaopinto: Yeh well you're lucky! Still, that's pulse letting you do that
[23:08] <cwillu> penguin42, so they finally got asound.conf configured right by default :)
[23:08] <nemo> penguin42: I've had that before, even w/ intel cards
[23:08] <KnifeySpooney> penguin42: Thanks, I guess Karmic uninstalled it or something odd happened.. either way I reinstalled and looks great.
[23:08] <penguin42> cwillu: Maybe, it might be the 32bit stuff that got fixed
[23:08] <nemo> penguin42: flash improved their integration, and, well. depends on what packages you installed too
[23:08] <aliendude5300> Anyone know how to adjust the volume for JUST the rear audio channels?
[23:08] <andresmh> does gnumeric have a channel?
[23:08] <nemo> Jordan_U: I was thinking more after default install
[23:09] <nemo> Jordan_U: they do leave the install thin and light, but there are prompts after. for graphic cards for example.
[23:09] <Jordan_U> nemo: Same likelyhood of ever happening
[23:09] <nemo> Jordan_U: could put it in some sound dialog
[23:09] <pwnguin> i need to install grub2 / bootchart my laptop
[23:09] <nemo> in that case, let folks find out about things that support their bluetooth on their own I guess
[23:10] <Jordan_U> nemo: If the graphics card drivers were distributable they wouldn't prompt you to enable them. It's a choice out of neccessity
[23:10] <nemo> ahh well. this is all to make me feel better, is obvious the only way this will be solved is pulseaudio slowly getting more reliable.
[23:10] <nemo> no point in my going on about it.
[23:10] <nemo> hm. I think I'll update, and test SDL/openal in hedgewars again
[23:10] <nemo> maybe it doesn't lock up anymore :)
[23:11] <nemo> with one of the two
[23:11] <penguin42> On those boot charts is it the thing slightly above the bar that's the name?
[23:11] <aliendude5300> My USB drive keeps unmounting itself :/ I think it's because Ubuntu is having errors reading it... what should I do?
[23:11] <penguin42> aliendude5300: I'd dmesg and see if you can see the errors
[23:11] <Jordan_U> aliendude5300: Look in dmesg for any errors
[23:13] <Jordan_U> aliendude5300: You can also use errors=remount-ro ( don't remember the exact syntax ) so it just remounts read only instead of unmounting completely on errors
[23:13] <DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/EliteBook-karmic-20090927-6.png
[23:14] <DanaG> hmm, that's with just rebooting (no elevator=)
[23:14] <aliendude5300> Jordan_U: I wanted to fix the problem though... must be a problem with my devices file system (FAT32)
[23:14] <aliendude5300> I tried fsck with automatic repairing on the whole thing but it didn't improve much
[23:14] <aliendude5300> I even tried enabling checking for bad sectors
[23:14] <Jordan_U> aliendude5300: It's probably a bad flash drive, I've had a lot of cheap flash drives die on me
[23:15] <arand> ...There flies dear pidgin again.
[23:15] <aliendude5300> It's not a flash drive. It's a 250GB USB Mechanical Hard Disk
[23:15] <KnifeySpooney> How do I set the time to update with an NTP server? I could have sworn it was by using the time panel applet but I can't find it
[23:15] <aliendude5300> Not sure if SATA or PSATA...
[23:15] <Jordan_U> aliendude5300: And one that was silently corrupting untill I started testing btrfs on it and saw csum errors
[23:16] <DanaG> hmm, so now my slow boot has me so boggled.
[23:16] <aliendude5300> It has 46GB free space... shouldn't be unmounting due to the disk being full.
[23:17] <Jordan_U> aliendude5300: running out of space isn't considered an "error" that would force an unmount
[23:17] <penguin42> DanaG: Your NTFS mount has taken like a 3rd of the time
[23:17] <penguin42> DanaG: Oh hang on - there's another chunk later on
[23:17] <aliendude5300> http://pastebay.com/57587 <== dmesg after plugging in the USB drive to it unmounting forcefully
[23:18] <DanaG> hmm, usb errors... perhaps the enclosure is the thing that's failing?
[23:18] <penguin42> aliendude5300: Well the good thing is it doesn't actually say medium errors; as DanaG says USB errors - is it a powered drive?
[23:19] <aliendude5300> Whats Error -71? Seeing that one a lot...
[23:19] <aliendude5300> Yeah... it's powered by an AC adaptor.
[23:19] <aliendude5300> not VIA usb.
[23:19] <DanaG> hmm, could it be a dodgy cable?
[23:19] <cwillu> DanaG, are you booting off a usb hd enclosure?
[23:19] <penguin42> aliendude5300: Hmm so it has it's own AC adapter - not the normal problem of not enough power then
[23:19] <DanaG> Nope, my drive is SATA.
[23:19] <cwillu> oh, misunderstood that :p
[23:20] <DanaG> argh, what happened to the SMART attributes graph?
[23:20] <aliendude5300> I think its a corrupted filesystem or something.. but all my files are still there.
[23:21] <cwillu> DanaG, I wonder what gnome-panel is doing for ~17 seconds
[23:21] <Jordan_U> aliendude5300: It's not (just) a file system problem
[23:21] <aliendude5300> I can't remount it once it's unmounted... I have to turn it off on the back, unplug it from the PC, wait 10 seconds or so, and plug it back in, then turn the switch back on...
[23:21] <aliendude5300> All the files seem to be there.
[23:22] <cwillu> DanaG, coincides with mount.ntfs
[23:22] <cwillu> oops, nvm, it doesn't
[23:22] <aliendude5300> The drive is made by a company called Fantom.
[23:22] <Jordan_U> aliendude5300: There are errors reading from the device, at a lower layer than the file system ( which is also causing file system errors )
[23:22] <aliendude5300> What should I do to fix this?
[23:22] <aliendude5300> :/
[23:23] <aliendude5300> Was working fine a week or 2 ago
[23:23] <KnifeySpooney> yofel: You there?
[23:23] <Jordan_U> aliendude5300: See what it's smart diagnostics say ( in palimpsest )
[23:23] <cwillu> aliendude5300, if you can use the drive directly (esata, or internally), you'll be able to check smart disk
[23:23] <cwillu> most usb enclosures don't expose smart though
[23:24] <aliendude5300> Doesn't show up in palimpsest
[23:24] <aliendude5300> :/
[23:24] <cwillu> yep
[23:24] <cwillu> usb drives won't
[23:24] <aliendude5300> Sec... gonna try powering off again
[23:24] <cwillu> aliendude5300, ^^^
[23:24] <aliendude5300> I saw that.... but it wasnt mounted anyways...
[23:24] <Jordan_U> cwillu: I could have sworn I had checked smart diagnostics on an external USB enclosure
[23:25] <aliendude5300> So worth a try
[23:25] <cwillu> Jordan_U, I'm not saying they don't exist, but very very few bother implementing it
[23:25] <cwillu> they just act as a dumb mass storage device
[23:25] <aliendude5300> I'd open the thing up but it uses those annoying chinese screws or whatever :/
[23:25] <cwillu> does it have an esata port on the enclosure?
[23:25] <cwillu> that would work (being a mostly direct connection to the drive)
[23:25] <Jordan_U> cwillu: It also couldn't be done before devicekit disks, and so before karmic
[23:26] <penguin42> dumb being about the right description of most USB<->ata bridges
[23:26] <aliendude5300> It shows up but SMART isn't available.
[23:26] <yofel> KnifeySpooney: yes
[23:27] <KnifeySpooney> yofel: I tried lines 18/19 of your workaround and it worked fine up to linking the file
[23:27] <KnifeySpooney> It created the directory but the link wasn't created
[23:27] <aliendude5300> No eSATA port.
[23:27] <aliendude5300> Just USB.
[23:27] <DanaG> ironic thing on my usb/fw400/esata drive:
[23:27] <DanaG> it won't do SMART over eSATA; only over USB.
[23:28] <cwillu> heh
[23:28] <Dai> DanaG: as long as it's not LaCie *grumbles*
[23:29] <aliendude5300> Don't ever buy a drive from Fantom, this thing works terribly :/
[23:30] <aliendude5300> It was made in 2004 though...
[23:30] <aliendude5300> might be better now
[23:30] <Jordan_U> aliendude5300: Do you have another enclosure?
[23:30] <aliendude5300> no...
[23:31] <Jordan_U> aliendude5300: Another USB cable?
[23:31] <aliendude5300> These problems started occuring after I deleted old files from the drive.
[23:31] <aliendude5300> I have MANY usb cables... I could try that...
[23:32] <penguin42> aliendude5300: Another appropriate PSU might also be worth a go
[23:32] <aliendude5300> It uses a kind of PSU I've never seen on another type of device... dont have another one :/
[23:32] <yofel> KnifeySpooney: ok, if you run   [ -e /dev/card0 ] && sudo ln -s /dev/card0 /dev/dri/card0    right now in a terminal, is the link created?
[23:33] <cwillu> DanaG, have you noticed that udevd is waiting a good 10 seconds before any of its subprocesses kick in?
[23:33] <KnifeySpooney> yofel: Yes
[23:34] <cwillu> DanaG, as opposed to 20090801-1, where the subprocesses start immediately
[23:36] <Jordan_U> Is there any way that you could let the udev from the initramfs persist through the switch to the real root?
[23:36] <cwillu> DanaG, try elevator=deadline, I'm interested in seeing if it shortens the udev hangup there at all
[23:37] <cwillu> (you'll have to do it on kernel boot line)
[23:37] <DanaG> will do in a bit.
[23:38] <cwillu> DanaG, k, pm me if you don't mind, I tend to miss in-channel comments, and I'm heading off for lunch and work right away
[23:43] <yofel> KnifeySpooney: next try: http://yofel.pastebin.com/f7844d7c
[23:44] <test34> anyone got the microsoft vx-1000 webcam working?
[23:48] <test34> I get lots of error like this: "libv4lconvert: Error decompressing JPEG: fill_nbits error: need 3 more bits" and a green output
[23:50] <DanaG> okay, gonna' try reboot now.
[23:50] <penguin42> test34: 001 do ?
[23:51] <test34> penguin42: 001 do?
[23:51] <penguin42> test34: Well you said you needed 3 more bits
[23:51] <test34> heh
[23:52] <billybigrigger> test34, i have one
[23:52] <billybigrigger> hasn't worked at all during the 2.6.31 kernel development
[23:52] <billybigrigger> test34, good luck getting it going though, if you do, you should ping me :P
[23:53] <test34> billybigrigger, ok.. I've read that some people got it to work by recompiling the kernel but they dont say what option they changed
[23:53] <billybigrigger> i have compiled in all v4l/v4l2 devices and gspca modules, still nothing
[23:53] <penguin42> can anyone tell me what they have in /etc/pm/sleep.d please?
[23:54] <test34> they used http://kcheck.sourceforge.net/
[23:54] <test34> penguin: 10_unattended-upgrades-hibernate  99laptop-mode  action_wpa
[23:55] <test34> billybigrigger, is your videocard a nvidia?
[23:55] <billybigrigger> yes
[23:55] <test34> some said it worked by disabling the proprietary driver, I will try that
[23:56] <DanaG> cwillu: http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/EliteBook-karmic-20090927-7.png  -- not really siginficantly different.
[23:56] <XDevHald> billybigrigger: What type of NVidia are you running?
[23:57] <test34> reboot...
[23:57] <DanaG> 5 seconds.