Rocket2DMnuh oh, do we have system documentation on grub2?01:11
Rocket2DMnfor karmic that is01:11
pmatulisdoes the documentation project touch man pages?02:19
Rocket2DMnpmatulis, not usually, those are typically the domain of the package it applies to02:23
pmatulisputtering around here for the first time, first file i checked does not validate.  (ubuntu-docs/serverguide/C/clustering.xml)   can someone quickly say what is wrong with line 52?02:45
Rocket2DMnpmatulis, are you working on that file?02:46
pmatulisRocket2DMn: i did make a trivial correction.  not line 52 however02:46
Rocket2DMnpmatulis, the problem is that you are validating directly on that file, you should be validating on serverguide/C/serverguide.xml02:48
pmatulisRocket2DMn: ah ok02:48
pmatulisRocket2DMn: got it, thanks02:49
Rocket2DMnsure thing02:49
pmatulisRocket2DMn: i'm going through the motions for the first time, is making a patch for a very trivial update acceptable?02:55
Rocket2DMnfor the development branch, sure03:00
Rocket2DMnString Freeze is in a few days, so any patches need to be in before then03:00
pmatulisare you saying that after SF, the online serverguide, for instance, can no longer be changed?03:02
Rocket2DMnpmatulis, after string freeze, you need an exception to change something03:05
j1mchi seidos03:10
seidosj1mc: I'd like to join a team03:11
j1mcseidos: cool - what team would you like to join?03:11
seidosj1mc: I was thinking the one that I could do the most good in.  I was thinking marketing and/or documentation, though I'm open to other options03:12
j1mcok... sounds good.03:12
seidosj1mc: what team(s) are you member of?03:13
j1mcdo you know what you might want to document, or are you not sure?03:13
j1mcwhat ideas did you have in mind?03:13
Zachk18welcome seidos03:14
seidosideas re: documentation, I don't really have much in that regard03:14
seidosZachk18: greetings03:14
Zachk18seidos, so you like documentation?03:14
seidosdocumentation is great :)03:14
Zachk18ok do you have a wiki page made?03:14
Zachk18also do you have a launchpad account and have you signed the COC03:15
j1mcseidos: do you use ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, or another flavor of ubuntu?03:15
seidoshmmm let's see, I'm on launchpad03:15
Zachk18j1mc, you got this? if so i'm gonna check the unanswered posts on the forums03:16
seidosI use ubuntu03:16
seidosI do have a page on launchpad, but not sure what the url is off hand03:16
seidosand ubuntu server03:16
Zachk18seidos, have you signed the Code of Conduct?03:16
seidosZachk18: no on the CoC03:16
Zachk18ok well you should do that and also join the #ubuntu-beginners channel and ask for help with setting up a wiki page03:17
seidosall right03:17
seidosmaybe a document for how to join an ubuntu team03:17
j1mcZachk18: those sound like good tips... good ways to start.03:17
Zachk18j1mc, i try03:18
Zachk18seidos, were you asking for a page to go to? or suggesting a new page you would like to make03:18
j1mcseidos: do you have any kind of special experience thus far, or are you more just getting started?03:18
seidosZachk18: when?03:19
Zachk18j1mc, good question03:19
Zachk18seidos, when what03:19
seidosj1mc: special experience?03:19
Zachk18seidos, he meant do you have anything your especially good at or some field that you have more experience in than others03:20
j1mcseidos: like, do you know a lot about a certain linux-related topic or language, or are you just getting started?03:20
seidosnot really03:20
seidosI'm not particularly good at anything.03:20
Zachk18seidos, then you need a mentor03:20
Zachk18seidos, how old are you03:20
seidosbut I suppose I may find it difficult to quantify my skills03:20
seidosare you speaking particularly about linux?03:21
seidoscorrection, we speaking03:21
seidosZachk18: I'm 3003:21
missaugustinaHi seidos, welcome!03:22
Zachk18seidos, ok...well you should request a mentor from the BT team03:22
seidoshi missaugustina03:22
j1mcseidos: here is some info for you: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/03:22
Zachk18if i was a master i would take you on03:22
seidosZachk18: what is BT?03:22
Zachk18Beginners Team03:22
seidosthank you03:22
missaugustinaI don't think age has anything to do with anything :) Thanks for your interest in the team!03:22
Zachk18missaugustina, i asked because of the ynu group03:22
missaugustinaSeidos, there are some great starting places for getting involved with the Doc team03:23
seidoswhatever works :)03:23
missaugustinaThis is a list of current tasks - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks03:23
missaugustinaIt's not totally up to date but it's a good starting point03:23
Zachk18well just start with the different teams and see what you think you might fit in with best...there is always a place for somebody03:23
missaugustinaOn that page is a link to bugs in the documentation03:23
j1mcmissaugustina is right. :) there are lots of resources.03:24
j1mchere's some info on some of the documentation related teams and what they work on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Organization03:24
missaugustinaA great way to get started with the doc team is to look at the list of bugs and see if there's something you'd like to work on.03:24
Zachk18seidos, if you would like to see some links go here to my page.... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Zachk1803:25
missaugustinaSometimes there are really simple things like simple copy editing. Other times there are opportunities for bigger projects.03:25
seidos~missaugustina: I worked on a bug a little while ago that was listed on launchpad.03:25
missaugustinaYou should also scan the archives of the doc team mailing list and see if any projects are being discussed that look interesting to you.03:25
missaugustinaAwesome! Was it a doc team bug or for another team?03:26
seidoshow do you organize all the pages?03:26
seidosthat people send you?03:26
seidosyou being anyone :)03:26
missaugustinaIn the doc team there are two different sets of documentation.03:26
missaugustinaSystem docs and the Wiki03:26
seidosmissaugustina: it was a bug listed for an atheros wifi problem03:26
seidosmissaugustina: system docs?03:26
missaugustinaThe system docs are what you see in the Gnome helper application.03:27
* seidos clicks system and looks for docs :)03:27
missaugustinaSo if you go to Ubuntu help that's what we do :)03:27
ubot4Factoid 'gnomehelper' not found03:27
ubot4Factoid 'yelp' not found03:27
ubot4Hi! I'm #ubuntu-doc's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots03:27
missaugustinaUbuntu Help Center?03:27
ubot4Factoid 'ubuntu-help' not found03:27
ubot4Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Windows7 lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, and help on the MIRC client too! <nixternal> I LOVE MIRC!!!03:28
missaugustinaGo to System > Help and Support03:28
seidosI never use that03:28
missaugustinaThat's the system docs :)03:28
missaugustinaInformation on the wiki docs is here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Wiki03:29
seidosoh yeah, I did update a how to03:29
missaugustinaThe pages that are submitted to the System Docs are submitted through a version control system called Bazaar03:30
seidosfor setting up netboot/pxe03:30
missaugustinaThe pages submitted to the Wiki are managed by the wiki engine, MoinMoin03:30
seidosI just changed gutsy to hardy03:30
missaugustinaAre  you using a netbook?03:30
missaugustinaI am too!03:30
seidosI am not03:30
seidosmissaugustina: you are too what?03:30
missaugustinaOh I thought you were using a netbook03:30
seidosmissaugustina: why?03:31
missaugustinaNevermind, you updated a how to on the wiki?03:31
seidosmissaugustina: yeah03:31
seidosI changed one word03:31
missaugustinaOk well that's a start :)03:32
seidossomeone mentioned mentorship03:32
missaugustinaIf that's the kind of stuff you are interested in doing more of, then the Doc team is the place for you :)03:32
missaugustinaIt's kind of informal.03:32
missaugustinaBasically just pick something that you want to work on and ask the list for help.03:32
seidosI want to do everything, but I have to start somewhere03:32
missaugustinaOr get on IRC03:32
seidosall right, thank you for your time03:33
missaugustinaAre there any subject areas you're particularly interested in?03:33
seidosI get the feeling I'm taking you away from something03:33
seidoswhat about yourself?03:33
seidosI'm particularly interested in results03:34
missaugustinaThe current projects I'm working on are on my wiki page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AugustinaBlair/03:34
missaugustinaWell if you're interested in Xorg/Gnome, definitely post to the ubuntu-doc list if you want to help out with those docs.03:35
missaugustinaPhil Bull is also on the Gnome Doc team and might have some suggestions :)03:35
seidosI need to read everything y'all gave me03:35
missaugustinaOK, well enjoy! And feel free to hop on IRC or ping the mailing list if you have any questions.03:36
seidosI'm always on03:37
seidosthank you03:37
XDevHaldmdke: You around?04:08
XDevHaldAnyone available?04:16
Rocket2DMnI'm sure mdke is asleep, what can I do for ya XDevHald ?04:18
j1mchi Rocket2DMn04:18
Rocket2DMnhey j1mc , how you doing04:18
j1mcgood thx :)04:18
XDevHaldHey Rocket, just need some guidance on what needs to be done. I've been in this project 3 years ago, but need an update of what needs to be worked on.04:18
Rocket2DMnj1mc, watching my Trojans beat up on washington state04:19
Rocket2DMnXDevHald, well bugs are tracked here - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs04:19
Rocket2DMnXDevHald, string freeze is Oct1, so anything that gets done on system docs needs to be in before then04:19
XDevHaldAh the Karmic release04:20
Rocket2DMnXDevHald, also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks04:20
Rocket2DMnyeah XDevHald , Karmic is fast approaching04:21
XDevHaldLookin forward to it04:21
Rocket2DMnXDevHald, if you want to jump into something right away, I just filed a bug a bit ago for getting Grub2 documentation written04:21
Rocket2DMnbug 43744604:21
ubot4Launchpad bug 437446 in ubuntu-docs "Need documentation on Grub2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43744604:21
XDevHaldOk, I'm Steven04:22
Rocket2DMngood to meet you steven04:22
XDevHaldThis was talked about earlier today for Grub2 not being in documentation for Karmic. (You as well)04:23
Rocket2DMnand welcome back :)04:23
Rocket2DMnXDevHald, was it really?  I didn't catch that discussion04:23
XDevHaldThanks. Glad to be back 3 years later04:23
XDevHaldYeah, one sec04:23
XDevHaldNevermind, chat broke off...04:24
XDevHaldHat xChat04:24
Rocket2DMnlol, yeah we had some discussions in here earlier today, guess I missed that one04:25
XDevHaldHehe sorry.04:25
Rocket2DMnwhat was the summary of the discussion?  Did they recognize that we dont have any grub2 documentation?04:25
XDevHaldone sec wife is talking04:25
XDevHaldWife is trying to get me to have another baby in 5 years, she's crazy...04:26
XDevHaldAnywho, sorry went off topic. The discussion was about implementing the documentation for full release on Karmic with Grub2 provided, it didn't go into extent for the full documentary and that was when it cut me off.04:28
Rocket2DMnwell I think there just needs to be mention of it where there is currently documentation on grub04:28
Rocket2DMnif nothing else, link to documentation somewhere else04:28
Rocket2DMnjust cant expect beginners to know the difference between grub and grub2, so pointing out that there is a difference and that they are modified differently is important04:29
XDevHaldI'm reading the document for this on Grub2 and the difference is there, but not recommended for beginners.04:29
Rocket2DMnright, but grub2 will be stnadard on new installs of Karmic, so it needs to be there04:30
XDevHaldAh ok, didn't know that part.04:30
XDevHaldThought this was an option for Karmic upgrading.04:31
Rocket2DMnyeah hav ea look at http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha604:31
Rocket2DMnpeople who upgrade will keep their pre-existing bootloader04:31
Rocket2DMnfresh installs will use grub204:31
XDevHaldHere's the deal though, this upgrade for Alpha 6 knocks out the bootloader for dualboot if you have more than one OS correct?04:32
Rocket2DMnum, not that i've heard04:32
Rocket2DMnis that true?04:32
XDevHaldOk, let me show you.04:32
Rocket2DMnit may be that during development it does04:33
* XDevHald nods his head very strongly04:33
Rocket2DMnduring stable release, grub2 should only be installed if you do a fresh install of karmic (that includes if you are dual booting)04:33
XDevHaldSounds good.04:33
Rocket2DMnif I've misunderstood the intention, by all means correct me04:33
XDevHaldWhen installing Ubuntu from Alpha 6 in a dual-boot configuration with another operating system, such as Windows Vista, the grub2 configuration will not present an option to boot to the other OS. Investigation of this issue is ongoing. (430141)04:34
ubot4Launchpad bug 430141 in ubiquity "Vista is not showing up in grub2" [High,Fix released]04:34
XDevHaldI think you already knew this one.04:34
Rocket2DMnah ok04:34
Rocket2DMni havent tested with a dual boot, but i think i heard that.  Looks like it was fixed though04:34
XDevHaldI hope so, cause this is keeping me from grabbing alpha 6 with XP on dualboot04:35
Rocket2DMnIf you get a daily build, it should be OK i think04:35
XDevHaldOk. With the Nvidia drivers, has this been touched for Xorg? The 2.6.x.-31-generic is not compatible for some reason.04:36
XDevHaldPulls up a black screen with the back end showing scroll lines.04:37
Rocket2DMnI'm not sure, restricted drivers always seem to be a problem in dev testing.  my testing laptop uses open source radeon drivers04:37
XDevHaldI'll stick with 9.04 for now.04:39
XDevHald<Rocket2DMn> XDevHald, if you want to jump into something right away, I just filed a bug a bit ago for getting Grub2 documentation written04:41
XDevHald<Rocket2DMn> bug 43744604:41
ubot4Launchpad bug 437446 in ubuntu-docs "Need documentation on Grub2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43744604:41
XDevHaldHow do you want this documented?04:41
Rocket2DMnXDevHald, i listed xml files that i saw reference to grub in04:42
Rocket2DMnI would think that anywhere it talks about configuring grub, there should be mention of grub2 as well04:42
Rocket2DMnSince we're so close to string freeze, I don't think it needs to be advanced.  It would be cool to have documentation mirroring what exists for grub, but if that's not feasible, then just a mention and a link to external documentaiton would be ok04:43
Rocket2DMnI think we could probably make a Community Docs page for it.  For now it can redirect to the team wiki page i gave in the bug04:44
Rocket2DMnI know some people who can populate the page with some basic info though04:44
Rocket2DMnwe can put a wiki page here - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub204:45
Rocket2DMnand redirect it to the team wiki until it gets real info on it04:46
Rocket2DMnI'll do that now04:46
Rocket2DMnok, the redirect is in place04:47
XDevHaldI am currently pulling Alpha 6 from the release distro repo for testing, and leaving the generic -15 from 2.6.x so it doesn't pull me under. This way I can do some testing with grub204:49
XDevHaldWith the wiki page, I'll do as you requested and start on it tomorrow morning.04:49
Rocket2DMnsounds good XDevHald , thanks for contributing!04:50
XDevHaldAnytime bro. My head is fried from today and if you as if this went over my head, it didn't I am just cooked.04:50
Rocket2DMnunderstood, take it easy dude04:51
XDevHaldYou too.04:51
=== ShadowChild is now known as lukjad007
LaserJockI need some wiki help15:35
LaserJockI'm trying to get a full list of Edubuntu wiki pages, but the CategoryEdubuntu page only lists some I think15:36
LaserJockis there some way to get Edubuntu/*15:36
Rocket2DMnLaserJock, have a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TitleIndex#idxE16:11
XDevHaldRocket2dMn: Give me a few mins and I'll work on that wiki discussion from last night on Grub2.17:06
Rocket2DMnXDevHald, groovy17:07
Rocket2DMnyou can post a patch on the bug and somebody with privileges will commit it if they approve17:07
XDevHaldSounds good.17:09
j1mchey all: check out a working draft of the xubuntu-docs start page: http://emonk.fi/open/xubuntu/9.10/Documentation/Startpage/xubuntu-index.html17:54
j1mcthis is the lead-in page before you actually get to the system docs.17:54
j1mcit won't be up on xubuntu.org, but is included as part of the system docs.17:55
Rocket2DMnmdke, I posted a patch for the bug report about firewall documentation.  I was hoping to get bodhi's approval before I posted it, but real life concerns have kept him away19:01
cameron_Hello, does anyone know if it's possible to include js in the wiki to redirect different ubuntu variants based off of user agents?19:35
Flannelcameron_: I don't believe so19:39
cameron_Flannel, that's what I thought, because of security concerns, but it was worth a try. Thasnks!19:39
mdkeRocket2DMn: fine, I'll have a look at some stage21:10
j1mchi all21:11
jjessehello :)21:11
j1mchey jjesse :)21:11
mdkehey chaps21:12
jjessehey j1mc and mdke21:12
j1mci'm so excited about the updates for the xubuntu docs start page.21:12
j1mcpasi lallihano is a genius21:12
mdkelooks good21:12
Rocket2DMnj1mc, that page looks nice21:13
j1mcyeah.  the IRC link to the Xubuntu chan brings up the Freenode web chat with a random "xubuntuweb-XXX" username, too.21:15
j1mcand brings them right into #xubuntu21:15
j1mcand the links to the doc sections will display in 1, 2, or 3 columns depending on the user's screen resolution.21:15
j1mcso it will still work ok for small screens21:16
j1mche did all of that in about half a day.21:16
j1mcok, i'll be quiet now. :)21:17
mdkeimpressive stuff :)21:22
mdkeRocket2DMn: is there any point keeping firestarter in the section if it is no longer updated? I'd tend just to recommend gufw22:51
Rocket2DMnmdke, it is still in the repositories23:13
Rocket2DMnI thought it best to not take out existing documentation if it wasn't in the way, it should be OK to provide options23:13
mdkeRocket2DMn: ok, I'm going to overrule you there, sorry :p23:15
mdkebodhi.zazen made a good case for removing it in the bug too23:15
Rocket2DMnyou want me to adjust the patch?23:16
mdkeno thanks, I've committed it already23:16
mdkei have one further question though23:16
Rocket2DMndid you take it out then?23:16
mdkeyes, I committed your patch and then did some changes afterwards23:16
mdkeright at the beginning, is it worth trying to explain whether and when people will need a firewall? like "if you connect to the internet using a router, you will not normally need a firewall because the router provides a firewall automatically?"23:17
mdkebad language, but you get the point23:17
mdkeRocket2DMn: what do you think?23:19
Rocket2DMngive me a moment, I'm trying to organize my thoughts on that question23:19
Rocket2DMnIt depends on what you think the knowledge level is of people using that documentation I guess23:20
Rocket2DMnWould you also explain how to check your router's configuration?23:20
mdkequite a few might not know what a router is23:20
Rocket2DMnyeah, you're suddenly talking about hardware in software documentation23:21
mdkebut reading it as it is now, they might also think "omg I need a firewall immediately", when they don't23:21
mdkeit can't hurt, I suppose23:21
Rocket2DMnThe point is valid, and may be good for expanding on firewall documentation.  I know bodhi would have a field day with that23:21
mdkeI might try and find a way to mention it23:21
Rocket2DMnHe could write a book on dealing witjh firewalls, intrusion detection, security, etc23:21
Rocket2DMnBut yeah, if you want to start down that path, we can23:22
Rocket2DMnThe patch I gave was intended to be something quick to get in before string freeze23:22
mdkeI would only add a sentence at most, I think23:22
mdkelemme see23:23
Rocket2DMnhmm, the thing is that linux is locked down by default, so installing a firewall configuration app (like gufw) is actually opening ports rather than blocking them23:24
Rocket2DMnif you wanted to add something, perhaps something along the lines of: "Most routers have hardware firewalls built in, so if you use one on your home network, the chances are that you don't need to configure a software firewall unless you are planning to open ports"23:26
mdkein that case, the section kinda has the wrong premise23:27
mdkein the sense that it looks like something you can do to keep your computer safe23:27
mdkewhereas actually it will help you make it less safe ;)23:28
mdkeok, I'm going to change the section title back to your version then23:28
Rocket2DMnwhat had you changed it to?23:28
mdke"Set up a firewall"23:29
mdke(the previous title)23:29
mdkeso Ubuntu automatically blocks access by default?23:29
Rocket2DMnit should, I could nmap my alpha6 install to see what happens23:30
Rocket2DMn`lsof -i -n -P` doesnt show anything23:31
Rocket2DMnwell there are some open ports it looks like23:32
mdkeso do programs like vino or openssh or whatever open the ports up?23:32
Rocket2DMnseems to have aborted, let me try from the othe rlaptop23:33
Rocket2DMnhmm, same thing23:34
mdkewhat do you think of this as a first para23:34
mdke <para>Ubuntu automatically protects your computer from unauthorized access by people on the Internet or your network. Certain programs or services which use the Internet may require you to relax this rule in order for them to work. To do so, you can set up a <emphasis>firewall</emphasis>. If you use a router to connect to the Internet, you may already have a firewall enabled in that router. This section deals with setting up a firewall on Ubuntu.</para23:35
Rocket2DMnThat looks pretty good.  Do we want to point out that the hardware firewall ina router protects your LAN against the outside world, but not specifically your machine?  There could still be threats from inside your network, like if a windows machine on it has been compromised23:37
mdkeI'll see if I can get something in23:39
mdkebut I think we're saying that Ubuntu automatically protects against such threats in the first sentence23:41
Rocket2DMnYeah, but that is a pretty bold statement.23:42
Rocket2DMnOut of the box, Ubuntu isn't perfect on security23:42
mdkeperhaps we shouldn't say it then23:42
mdkeok, let's try again :)23:43
mdke <para>You may wish to install a firewall to protect your computer against unauthorized access by people on the Internet or your network. Firewalls block connections to your computer from unknown sources, which helps to prevent security breaches. If you use a router to connect to the Internet, you may already have a firewall enabled in that router which regulates connections from the Internet to your network. This section deals with setting up a firewal23:44
Rocket2DMnThat sounds better I think.  The only thing that caught my eye was "enabled in that router"23:46
Rocket2DMnI don't have a suggested change off the top of my head, so I think that should work fine23:47
mdkeIf you use a router to connect to the Internet, the router may already have a firewall configured which regulates connections from the Internet to your network.23:48
mdkeok, good to go23:49
mdkethank very much for your work on that, it's great to have that section updated23:49
Rocket2DMnNo problem, bodhi provided the original text and I went from there.  Thanks for your feedback as well, I think the section is better off now than it was just with my patch23:50
Rocket2DMnXDevHald, did you get around to writing anything for grub2 today?23:52
XDevHaldAhem... Yes.. never install it without properly filing full path commands for complete use before rebooting. (My apologies but my day has the best of me)23:53
XDevHaldP.S that is from personal experience.23:54
XDevHaldJust a summary will do of what you're looking for to be added and it can be done.23:55
Rocket2DMnI think the section about dual booting needs mention of it23:59
Rocket2DMnit has a pretty detailed section about using Grub23:59

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