[00:49] <Ahmuck_Sr> ace_suares: u around ?
[01:12] <Ahmuck_Sr> is aptitude installed by default on an ubuntu system?
[02:01] <Ahmuck_Sr> got a question.  i need to move back to 8.10 or 9.04 fresh.  i need to migrate users without data loss
[02:04] <Ahmuck_Sr> i'd be moving from 32 bit to 64 bit
[05:17] <hidox> hola
[05:18] <hidox> is this channel engish or spanish ?
[05:31] <HedgeMage> hidox: English, though a few here speak other languages.
[05:32] <hidox> do you talk spanish ?
[05:33] <HedgeMage> Not unless you want to talk about apples or how many children are on the playground (I've started to learn, but my vocabulary is very limited)
[05:35] <hidox> are you learning   spanish ?
[05:35] <HedgeMage> Yes.
[05:35] <hidox> talk !
[05:35] <HedgeMage> Como esta usted?
[05:36] <hidox> bien ,gracias
[05:36] <HedgeMage> :)
[05:37] <hidox> if  I were a friend  you must say      como estas tu ?
[05:38] <hidox> my english is very bad !
[05:39] <hidox> talk !!
[05:40] <HedgeMage> muy bien :)
[05:41] <HedgeMage> (My Spanish is very very bad... I have only been learning for a few days.)
[05:41] <hidox> como estas tu ?
[05:41] <hidox> who are you ?
[05:41] <hidox> excuse
[05:41] <hidox> how are you ?
[05:44] <HedgeMage> Was my answer (very good) worded correctly?
[05:44] <HedgeMage> (by the way, #ubuntu-es can help with most ubuntu things in Spanish)
[05:47] <hidox> ok , I know it !
[05:48] <HedgeMage> :)
[05:48] <hidox> your answer was right
[05:49] <hidox> what do you like  learn  now ?
[05:49] <HedgeMage> How do I say "I'm sleepy" ?
[05:49] <hidox> say me a sentence  a i explain you how to create it !
[05:50] <hidox> in spanish    I have dream
[05:50] <hidox> you must say
[05:50] <hidox>  tengo sueño
[05:51] <hidox> :)
[05:51] <HedgeMage> :)
[05:51] <hidox> or tengo mucho sueño
[05:51] <hidox> much
[05:52] <hidox> or  I wznt to sleep
[05:52] <hidox> or  I want to sleep
[05:52] <hidox> quiero dormir (sleep)
[05:53] <hidox> my friend , why are you in this channel ?
[05:54] <HedgeMage> I do some volunteer work with open source software and education.
[05:54] <HedgeMage> this channel is about Ubuntu's education project :)
[05:56] <hidox> I like  it
[05:58] <hidox> I use now  max  do you know it ?
[05:59] <hidox> do you know MAX  ?
[05:59] <hidox> ?
[06:00] <hidox> HedgeMage
[06:00] <HedgeMage> I am back
[06:00] <hidox> ok
[06:00] <hidox> did you read ?
[06:00] <HedgeMage> Yes, I do not know what max you are talking about
[06:01] <HedgeMage> but...
[06:01] <HedgeMage> Quiero dormir
[06:01] <HedgeMage> and I am going to bed :)
[06:01] <hidox> jajajaj
[06:01] <HedgeMage> Good night :)
[06:01] <hidox> ( laughting !! )
[06:01] <hidox> max  is a recopilation in spanish
[06:02] <HedgeMage> Ahh, I did not know that.
[06:02] <HedgeMage> I hope to see you again.  Good night. :)
[06:02] <hidox> about a lot of  eduactional proyect
[06:02] <hidox> uuuuuuuuuuuuu
[06:03] <hidox> any  want talk about education ??
[06:03] <hidox> i love education
[06:04] <hidox> helo  any talk  about education
[07:38] <Balsaq> when you upgarde ubuntu 810 to 904 (doing it) do you lose your sound and stuff?
[07:56] <Balsaq> thanks ubottu went there and read it but didnt see anything
[07:57] <Balsaq> as i am installing 904 over my 810 people are telling me to expect sound issues...
[12:09] <Balsaq> can i re-install ubuntu 8.10 (have the disc) even though i have upgrade to the newer version 9.04? was told i can't go back now and the 9,04 slowed me down..apparantly my old dell like 8.10 better
[12:10] <alkisg> Balsaq: why don't you try debugging the problem first?
[12:11] <alkisg> I don't think you can downgrade, you'd have to reinstall AFAIK.
[12:11] <Balsaq> afaik?
[12:12] <alkisg> As Far As I Know
[12:12] <Balsaq> total an complete newbie here
[12:12] <Balsaq> old 1998 dell
[12:12] <Balsaq> just killed w98 a few days ago loved the 810 seemed to be made for this old puter
[12:14] <Balsaq> i suppose there is a way to do an uninstall right? then do a clean 8.10
[12:14] <Balsaq> how do i debug?
[12:14] <alkisg> Not really... you just select "format" when reinstalling 8.10
[12:15] <alkisg> Well, what's the exact difference in performance?
[12:15] <alkisg> Graphics card drivers?
[12:16] <Balsaq> hard too say just slower didnt time it..maybe i should shut er down and timeit..took 3min 30 sec to boot from off to the net with 810 which is low but it was fast on the net once i got there
[12:16] <alkisg> What are the client specs? I.e. cpu, ram, graphics card model, network speed?
[12:17] <Balsaq> plus when i shut down 9.04 does this weird thing with  atimer..indicating they wnt me to wait or something
[12:17] <Balsaq> 400mgz pII mmx technology 768sdram pc133 10g HD 8mb ati
[12:18] <alkisg> Do you have ldm_directx=true in lts.conf?
[12:18] <Balsaq> dell dimension xps r400 from 1998
[12:18] <Balsaq> listen i dont know anyhting about that
[12:18] <alkisg> OK, try that:
[12:18] <Balsaq> direct x was in here with windows used to test with it
[12:18] <alkisg> gksu gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
[12:18] <alkisg> That will open an (empty) file
[12:19] <alkisg> Put there the following 2 lines:
[12:19] <Balsaq> but it never detected anything wrong so i asuumed it was a toy
[12:19] <alkisg> [Default]
[12:19] <alkisg> LDM_DIRECTX=True
[12:19] <alkisg> Then save the file and reboot the client, and time it to see if it got faster.
[12:19] <alkisg> LDM_DIRECTX doesn't have anything to do with windows directx
[12:20] <alkisg> It specifies that you don't want encryption in your client <=> server connection, so that's faster.
[12:20] <alkisg> (but more insecure)
[12:20] <Balsaq> wow
[12:20] <alkisg> See the ltsp docs for more information on the theory: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
[12:20] <Balsaq> insecure from what?
[12:21] <Balsaq> malware
[12:21] <alkisg> From a person eavesdropping in your local network
[12:21] <alkisg> No, not from malware
[12:21] <Balsaq> hmmm wonder what you mean...someone watching me?
[12:21] <alkisg> Read the docs, they say it better than me
[12:22] <Balsaq> is the speed solution easily reversible
[12:22] <alkisg> For such old clients, it helps a *lot*. Try it and see.
[12:22] <Balsaq> wow
[12:23] <Balsaq> i dont do anything that i would care if someone eavesdropped...unless they can cause me problems
[12:24] <Balsaq> now when i type this in where do i type it in my http: or what in DOS?
[12:24] <alkisg> No, press Alt+F2 in your server, a dialog will pop up
[12:24] <alkisg> Type it there.
[12:25] <Balsaq> now when i did the ubuntu 810 a few days ago i completely wiped w98 if that makes any difference
[12:26] <Balsaq> and by server you mean what?
[12:26] <Balsaq> we have servers at work but not at home to my knowledge
[12:26] <alkisg> Woah
[12:26] <alkisg> Sorry I guess I misunderstood you from the beggining
[12:27] <alkisg> You're talking about a single PC, right?
[12:27] <Balsaq> or will the alt thing suddenly get me inthere for all these commands to work
[12:27] <Balsaq> yes one pc desktop
[12:27] <alkisg> Balsaq: ok ignore *everything* I said, I was talking about something completely different
[12:28] <Balsaq> k
[12:28] <alkisg> I thought you were talking about LTSP, which is a method to use such old clients in a server <=> client environment
[12:28] <alkisg> I never imagined that you ran ubuntu standalone in such an old client... :)
[12:28] <Balsaq> what i want is too either debug slow performance which may be tough on an old dell or reinstall8.10 if possible i dont like 9.04
[12:29] <Balsaq> i also noticed my slowdown started before 9.04 upgrade...it started after i took 349 updates
[12:29] <alkisg> OK, if you put the CD and tell it to use all the disk, it'll delete all the old data
[12:30] <Balsaq> so i can put the 8.10 version in ther again even though i have now done the 9,04 upgrade
[12:30] <alkisg> Yes, but it will *delete* all your hard disk contents
[12:30] <Balsaq> i dont care i have nothing inthere i only use this puter as an internet runner
[12:31] <alkisg> OK then go ahead...
[12:31] <alkisg> ...put the CD in the drive and boot from it
[12:31] <Balsaq> only thing i loaded was flash and i can do  that again...of course passwords etc...but nothing else
[12:32] <Balsaq> weird others say no can do...oh well you seem pretty advanced
[12:32] <Balsaq> it took 6 hours the 1st time so ill do it later
[12:32] <alkisg> OK
[12:32] <Balsaq> been up all night with the 904 and upgrades
[12:32] <alkisg> ...and you installed edubuntu in that?
[12:32] <Balsaq> i am so glad to know icanget tiback thank you
[12:33] <alkisg> How come you got here instead of #ubuntu?
[12:33] <Balsaq> the 810 went in all my sound worked it ram faster than w98 ran 11 years ago
[12:34] <Balsaq> just curious, what di you think i was asking before?
[12:34] <alkisg> Well, you are in the #edubuntu channel
[12:34] <alkisg> ...and you're asking a question which should be asked in #ubuntu...
[12:35] <Balsaq> i know but they were flying all over h*ll in the other ones and i couldnt get a word in edge wise
[12:35] <alkisg> (02:28:11 μμ) alkisg: I thought you were talking about LTSP, which is a method to use such old clients in a server <=> client environment
[12:35] <alkisg> Balsaq: well, you should start with "My question is not edubuntu related" so that we better understood what you wanted...
[12:35] <Balsaq> the people in there were telling me some pretty weird stuff tonight some even pulling my leg and not telling me until  i suffered for awhile
[12:36] <Balsaq> i figured the educators wouldnt play games with newbies
[12:36] <alkisg> Most people here *are not* educators...
[12:37] <alkisg> ...they either administer or develop edubuntu... us teachers are a minority here :)
[12:38] <Balsaq> sorry if i interupted, i have was told all the buntus are the same with minor adjustment and that i can make any work like the others
[12:38] <alkisg> Yes, but each channel is focused on specific questions...
[12:38] <ogra> general ubuntu support belongs to #ubuntu though
[12:39] <alkisg> Never mind, no problem, just specify the subject a little better next time
[12:39] <Balsaq> thank you my question is answered i really appreciate it
[12:39] <alkisg> Good luck :)
[13:59] <LaserJock> highvoltage, stgraber: I'm here
[14:00] <highvoltage> LaserJock: stgraber e-mailed to say that he'll be around in another hour or so from now
[14:00] <LaserJock> fine
[14:00] <highvoltage> LaserJock: are you in the same timezone as him? if so it will be at 10am or so
[14:01] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I am, yes
[14:51] <stgraber> hello
[14:54] <sbalneav> Morning all
[14:54] <mhall119|work> morning
[14:54] <stgraber> LaserJock, highvoltage: ping
[14:55] <LaserJock> hi
[15:00] <highvoltage> stgraber: pong
[15:08] <highvoltage> LaserJock?
[16:59] <lfaraone> Hi, I created all my students with adduser, and none of them show up when connected in the tthin client manager.
[17:02] <alkisg> lfaraone: and the other users do show up? compare 2 such users with: id username
[17:03] <lfaraone> alkisg: actually, no users show up.
[17:03] <lfaraone> alkisg: it seems to be bug 373100.
[17:04] <lfaraone> alkisg: (which I just confirmeda and prioritized). There's a patch attached, but for some reason it hasn't been sponsored.
[17:04] <alkisg> lfaraone: tcm is kind of abandoned, either try tcm-ng (search for that in launchpad) or use italc...
[17:04] <lfaraone> (the patch fixed my problem)
[17:05] <lfaraone> alkisg: Okay. I'd rather use italc, since it's in the Jaunty repositories.
[17:05] <alkisg> OK.
[17:06] <lfaraone> alkisg: Is it better to put it in the chroot, or to run it on the server? The wikipage doesn't ist any downsides of putting it on the chroot...
[17:07] <alkisg> It's much easier to just put it in the server
[17:07] <alkisg> The downside is that you only see the clients after they log in
[17:07] <alkisg> So you can't e.g. use remote power on
[17:09] <lfaraone> alkisg: okay, but that's something we can do with WOL anyway, right?
[17:09] <alkisg> Sure.
[17:10] <alkisg> I think you are also able to shut them down, which you also could do with other means...
[17:24] <lfaraone> alkisg: hm. how else can we remotely shut down clients? It'd be useful to power off the lab after the last class of the day....
[17:25] <lfaraone> the ping of death!
[17:25] <lfaraone> alkisg: hm. how else can we remotely shut down clients? It'd be useful to power off the lab after the last class of the day....
[17:26] <alkisg> Something with a cron job, some support for this has been put in ltsp-upstream recently - I don't remember any details, though...
[17:26] <alkisg> And of course you could use ssh
[17:27] <alkisg> It's also been discussed in some list, but I don't remember if it was the edubuntu or the ltsp-discuss one
[17:29] <alkisg> brb
[17:34] <lfaraone> alkisg: thanks. (I have to be going too)
[17:34] <alkisg> bye!
[18:58] <mhall119|work> hey, is Edubuntu working with Mirus Innovations?
[19:00] <sbalneav> Not AFAIK
[19:01] <alkisg> sbalneav, good sbalneav, when are you going to present us a lecture about LDAP here in #edubuntu? :)
[19:01] <alkisg> We promise we'll be a good audience!
[19:02] <sbalneav> What would you like to know?
[19:03] <sbalneav> I only know about OpenLDAP, I don't know anything about Active Directory.
[19:03] <alkisg> A "simple" example on how to setup LDAP so that I can have centralized user accounts in a school
[19:03] <alkisg> Assume that all PCs run edubuntu
[19:03] <mhall119|work> sbalneav: they're selling Intel Classmate PC's running Edubuntu on target.com and sears.com
[19:03] <sbalneav> OK, well, that's pretty simple then.
[19:04] <sbalneav> Well, here's how I do it.  Keep in mind I'm still running 8.04 OpenLDAP, there's been some new goodies in the newer openldap versions I'm not completely up to speed on yet but...
[19:04] <alkisg> sbalneav: I've read this one: https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/serverguide/C/openldap-server.html
[19:05] <alkisg> ...that *didn't* sound like a simple thing to do! :(
[19:05] <sbalneav> 1) Create your OpenLDAP server, and you'll want two OU (Org Units): users & groups
[19:05]  * alkisg is stretching his ears
[19:05] <sbalneav> 2) Install libpam-ldap, and libnss-db
[19:06] <sbalneav> Also, nss-updatedb
[19:07] <sbalneav> I don't use nss-ldap, since it puts too much of a load on the LDAP server, over our slow WAN
[19:07] <sbalneav> I create a :
[19:07] <sbalneav> /etc/auth-client-config/profile.d/legalaid-ldap-auth-config
[19:08] <sbalneav> file, that contains (I'll spam the channel, apologies...)
[19:08] <sbalneav> [legalaid_ldap]
[19:08] <sbalneav> nss_passwd=passwd: compat db
[19:08] <sbalneav> nss_group=group: compat db
[19:08] <sbalneav> nss_shadow=shadow: compat ldap
[19:08] <sbalneav> pam_auth=auth       optional     pam_group.so auth       sufficient   pam_ldap.so auth       required     pam_unix.so nullok_secure use_first_pass
[19:08] <sbalneav> pam_account=account    sufficient   pam_ldap.so account    required     pam_unix.so
[19:08] <sbalneav> pam_password=password   sufficient   pam_ldap.so password   required     pam_unix.so try_first_pass
[19:08] <sbalneav> pam_session=session    required     pam_unix.so session    required     pam_mkhomedir.so skel=/etc/skel/ session    optional     pam_ldap.so session    optional     pam_foreground.so
[19:08] <sbalneav> EOF
[19:08] <sbalneav> whoops, ditch the eof at the end.
[19:08] <alkisg> OK
[19:08] <sbalneav> Then, I can apply the auth config with:
[19:08] <sbalneav> auth-client-config -a -p legalaid_ldap
[19:09] <sbalneav> then, I set up a simple cron job that fires up:
[19:09] <sbalneav> nss_updatedb ldap
[19:09] <sbalneav> every 10 minutes or so.
[19:10] <sbalneav> This copies all the ldap info down to local BerkelyDB files that libnss-db uses
[19:10] <sbalneav> that way useid and groupid lookups for things like ls -al don't generate any LDAP queries.
[19:10]  * alkisg reminds sbalneav that he said: "(09:03:44 μμ) sbalneav: OK, well, that's pretty simple then." :D
[19:11] <sbalneav> Well, it *is* pretty simple, for LDAP :)
[19:11] <sbalneav> LDAP's a complicated topic :)
[19:11] <sbalneav> Mine
[19:11] <sbalneav> Mine's about the SIMPLEST complicated ldap setup you can have.
[19:11] <sbalneav> :)
[19:11] <sbalneav> Oh, and:
[19:11] <alkisg> I wonder if it would be simpler to just use nfs-mounted /etc/passwd :P
[19:12] <sbalneav> Well, you could do that with:
[19:12] <sbalneav> No, that's only nss :(
[19:13] <sbalneav> I don't think there's a pam module that handles that.
[19:13] <sbalneav> one sec, lemme look
[19:13] <alkisg> Hmmm and to actually insert new users, I need to import ldif files?
[19:15] <sbalneav> ah
[19:15] <sbalneav> libpam-pwdfile
[19:16] <alkisg> Whassat?
[19:16] <sbalneav> and libnss-extrausers
[19:17] <sbalneav> Description: PAM module allowing authentication via an /etc/passwd-like file This PAM module lets you use an arbitrarily-named text file similar in structure to /etc/passwd to authenticate users. Both DES and MD5 hashed passwords are supported.
[19:17] <alkisg> Just saw it!!! Sounds ****sweeeeeet*** :)
[19:18] <sbalneav> it may, or may not do what you want.
[19:18] <alkisg> ...even if shadow is shared over NFS, I wouldn't care :)
[19:18] <sbalneav> I'd have to look at the source, one sec...
[19:18] <alkisg> ...and libnss-extrausers sounds even better
[19:19] <alkisg> ...as it would allow me to work with the PCs even when the local network is down
[19:20] <sbalneav> Well, you'd have to copy the server's pwd and group file periodically
[19:21] <sbalneav> in order for that to happen.
[19:21] <sbalneav> if you're going after an nfs mounted /etc/passwd and /etc/group, and nfs is down: bad luck.
[19:21] <alkisg> Or just share it with nfs
[19:21] <alkisg> Ah
[19:21] <alkisg> Ouch
[19:22] <sbalneav> Another bit of bad luck.  libpam-pwdfile DOESN'T support shadow.
[19:22] <alkisg> If I'm going to copy stuff, I might as well copy the whole /etc/passwd... I don't need secondary files
[19:22] <sbalneav> it expects the encrypted password to be in the passwd file.
[19:22] <sbalneav> However, it wouldn't be too hard to fix that, since it's C.
[19:23] <alkisg> sbalneav: do you think that NIS would be a better choice for my needs?
[19:24] <sbalneav> Well, NIS it DOA
[19:24] <alkisg> Dah
[19:24] <sbalneav> It's still around as "legacy" but I don't think anyone's actively maintaining it anymore.
[19:24] <sbalneav> So.
[19:24] <sbalneav> You can:
[19:25] <sbalneav> 1) Set up LDAP infrastructure.
[19:25] <sbalneav> 2) Use a modified simple libpam-pwfile.
[19:26] <sbalneav> If you'd like, I could spend some time creating a modified "shared password/shadow" libpam module.
[19:26] <alkisg> sbalneav, if I used LDAP, could I *somehow* logon locally (with guest users or something) if the network was down?
[19:26] <sbalneav> Sure.
[19:27] <sbalneav> If LDAP's down, you just "fall through" the pam call chain to the local /etc/passwd, /etc/shadow.
[19:27] <alkisg> That sounds robust... and, do you think that a standard LDAP installation could be scripted, for both the server and the clients?
[19:28] <sbalneav> I have a "package" I've created (years ago) that creates a "legalaid-ldap-client" deb.
[19:28] <alkisg> I guess that's the correct way to go then.
[19:28] <alkisg> Thanks **a lot** man
[19:28] <sbalneav> install the deb, and it sets up the client for authentication against our LDAP server.
[19:29] <sbalneav> If you'd like, I could expurgate the deb, and send you a "sanitized" version of it.
[19:29] <alkisg> Would you mind mailing me the package, just to see what steps I need to do to make something similar?
[19:29] <alkisg> I'd appreciate that
[19:29] <sbalneav> Great minds think alike, fools seldom differ :)
[19:29] <sbalneav> Email?
[19:29] <alkisg> ...but don't take too much time sanitizing it, just remove any sensitive data
[19:29] <alkisg> Heh
[19:29] <alkisg> alkisg at gmail
[19:30] <sbalneav> k
[19:30] <sbalneav> two shakes:
[19:31] <highvoltage> good evening
[19:32] <alkisg> Hi highvoltage
[19:32] <highvoltage> how are things alkisg?
[19:32]  * alkisg struggles with italc, ldap, clusterssh and linux in general... :-/
[19:33] <alkisg> ...so, everything's fine! :D
[19:33] <alkisg> How are you?
[19:38] <sbalneav> alkisg: OK
[19:38] <sbalneav> sent
[19:39]  * alkisg owes 3.5 beers + 1 tsipouro to sbalneav :D