[00:20] <TheMuso> /c/c
[02:49] <TheMuso> pitti: Test/demo plan added for gnome-speech replacement. Please let me know if this needs to be fleshed out more.
[04:47] <Amaranth> mac_v: someone fixed my bluetooth icon for me on the forums, they made it into a gray bluetooth symbol with no circle or anything around it
[04:47] <Amaranth> just the symbol
[05:16] <Omen20> hi, could someone help me understand /dev better? I was wondering how u know which is what drive
[05:18] <Omen20> I see sda and sda1 and so forth and im not sure which is my 160GB SATA drive
[05:28] <mac_v> Amaranth: do you have the link...? i change the icons to the monochrome one ,but the menu is picking it up
[05:28] <Amaranth> mac_v: oh, he just modified my screenshot
[05:29] <mac_v> ;p
[05:29] <Amaranth> mac_v: yeah, the bluetooth applet uses the same icons everything
[05:29] <Amaranth> err, everywhere
[05:29] <Amaranth> but I think this icon will still work in the menu too if it is done like the screenshot
[05:29] <mac_v> yeah , so i just made a *black*tooth icon ;)
[05:29] <Amaranth> It's just the bluetooth symbol but gray
[05:29] <Amaranth> right, like that
[05:29] <Amaranth> no background, etc, just the symbol
[05:33] <mac_v> damn i had a monochrome icon but its not usable ... we are using gnome-bluetooth , right?
[05:33] <Amaranth> right
[05:34] <Amaranth> mac_v: I think the hicolor pack I sent you contained my lame version on the icon
[05:34] <Amaranth> I just loaded all the sizes up in gimp and desaturated :P
[05:34] <mac_v> right now  , that is what is possible ;) ... i desaturated the icon
[05:35] <mac_v> could it be patched? ;) bluetooth is the only *system* app which is for now causing a problem :/
[05:36] <Amaranth> mac_v: you could probably patch gnome-bluetooth to use a different icon, sure
[05:36] <Amaranth> mac_v: iirc with the way the icon naming rules work if you named it gnome-bluetooth-panel it would fall back to gnome-bluetooth automatically in themes that didn't provide the new icon
[05:37] <mac_v> an better label would be "bluetooth-active" and using the icon from the status folder,
[05:38] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[05:39] <mac_v> ;p
[06:04] <mac_v> Amaranth: who is the manitainer of gnome-bluetooth?
[06:05] <Amaranth> mac_v: ebassi, iirc
[06:05] <Omen20> hi, is anyone running a SSD on their system?
[06:07] <mac_v> thanks
[06:18] <hyperair> does anyone know if sreadahead has been fixed yet?
[06:21] <Amaranth> mac_v: Does the battery icon gain color when it drops to a critical level?
[06:21]  * Amaranth checks icons
[06:21] <mac_v> it is supposed to
[06:21] <mac_v> Amaranth: does it not change?
[06:22] <Amaranth> I don't know, I was just being lazy and asked instead of looking :P
[06:22] <mac_v> ;p
[06:22] <mac_v> only for the 20% it is red
[06:23] <Amaranth> I see
[07:15] <pitti> Good morning
[07:15] <al-maisan> Good morning pitti
[07:15] <pitti> mac_v: hi
[07:15] <Amaranth> morning
[07:16] <pitti> TheMuso: test/demo plan> thank you!
[07:16] <pitti> hey al-maisan
[07:16] <mac_v> pitti: : morning
[07:16]  * pitti proudly wears the blue Taekwondo belt now \o/
[07:16] <al-maisan> pitti: oh wow, congratulations :)
[07:17]  * mac_v will now be a bit careful with pitti ;)
[07:21] <rugby471> pitti: how was the grading?
[07:22] <pitti> al-maisan: thanks!
[07:23] <pitti> rugby471: most of it went pretty well, I practiced a lot before; I just was a bit scared about the board breaking test, since I never did that before
[07:23] <pitti> but it went through at first try
[07:23] <rugby471> pitti: hehe congrats
[07:23] <pitti> so, 7 student grades done, 3 to go :)
[07:24]  * Amaranth remembers to not make pitti mad
[07:25] <pitti> lol
[07:25] <didrocks> it will be easier for pitti to make his opinion "stronger" at next sprint :)
[07:25] <Amaranth> He'll start swearing in german at me and the next thing I know I'll be looking up at the sky :P
[07:26]  * pitti still rubs his sore legs and neck
[07:27] <pitti> 7 hours training isn't exactly what I'm used to :)
[07:27] <didrocks> hum, I imagine :/
[07:29]  * Amaranth wants to know how much of mvo's mail over the weekend was from me doing triage :)
[07:30] <didrocks> Amaranth: and how many survive spamming process too ;)
[07:31] <Amaranth> compiz bug count broke the 400 and 350 levels in the same day
[07:31] <Amaranth> then I went and moved all still relevant bugs from the other compiz-related packages to compiz so they're easier to keep track over so it went back up to 367 or so
[07:32] <Amaranth> should get back down below 350 by release though
[08:02] <Amaranth> mvo: sorry about the mail spam :P
[08:05] <mvo> hey Amaranth - the compiz mailing list spam mails?
[08:06] <Amaranth> mvo: no, the large number of mails from launchpad for bug changes :P
[08:07] <mvo> Amaranth: oh, heh :) I have no dared to open my bugmail folder this morning yet ;)
[08:07] <mvo> did you do another huge triage round on the weekend?
[08:09] <Amaranth> mvo: Yeah, passed 400 and 350 the same day
[08:09] <mvo> woah!
[08:09]  * mvo hugs Amaranth
[08:10] <Amaranth> back up above 350 though because I also went through all the plugin pack and such bugs and moved still relevant ones to compiz
[08:10] <Amaranth> people were filing bugs about scale to compiz-fusion-bcop :/
[08:11] <mac_v> hi mvo  , the search icon not being displayed > Bug #437431 , check out comment 5
[08:12] <mvo> mac_v: thanks, I check it out
[08:32] <pitti> bonjour vuntz
[08:43] <asac> hi
[08:44] <asac> hmm. seems we need to demote ephy-extensions or promote ephy-webkit
[08:46] <seb128> good morning there
[08:46] <pitti> hey seb128
[08:46] <seb128> hey pitti!
[08:46] <seb128> how are you?
[08:47] <seb128> did you have a good weekend?
[08:47] <pitti> seb128: indeed I had; Taekwondo camp on Saturday, and belt examinations; I have the blue belt now :)
[08:47] <seb128> waouh
[08:48] <seb128> congrats ;-)
[08:48] <pitti> merci
[08:51] <asac> hi seb128
[08:51] <asac> 09:44 < asac> hmm. seems we need to demote ephy-extensions or promote ephy-webkit
[08:51] <asac> what do you think?
[08:51] <seb128> demote
[08:51] <seb128> and "why"?
[08:51] <seb128> I've epiphany-webkit installed without those
[08:52] <asac> seb128: ephy-etensions is dep wait
[08:53] <didrocks> hey seb128, asac
[08:53] <seb128> lut didrocks
[08:53] <asac> hi didrocks
[08:53] <seb128> asac, on what?
[08:53] <asac> seb128: on epiphany-webkit-dev
[08:54] <asac> seb128: e.g. extensions is in main
[08:54] <asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/epiphany-extensions/2.27.92-0ubuntu1
[08:54] <seb128> ok, makes sense, I don't care either way
[08:54] <seb128> demote epiphany-webkit that will make easier to work on it
[08:54] <asac> need a bug or can just demote?
[08:54] <seb128> and -e-e
[08:55] <seb128> ask pitti
[08:55] <seb128> I'm not going to touch anything during the freeze
[08:55] <asac> ephy-webkit is universe ... just -extensions is main
[08:55] <asac> k
[08:55] <seb128> I don't want to break DVD builds
[08:55] <asac> pitti: ^^
[08:55] <asac> not sure if that might have any impact
[08:57] <asac> hmm something removed my emacs :/
[08:57] <seb128> did you see that debian did the transition too now?
[08:57] <seb128> but they did it differently
[08:57] <seb128> brb, getting coffee
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> good morning everybody
[09:00] <asac> sure. they did the reshuffeling
[09:01] <asac> makes mroe sense, but doing that downstream would have been even more risky
[09:01] <didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson
[09:02] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks, how are you?
[09:02] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: fine, thanks, but a too short week-end ;) and you?
[09:03] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[09:03] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm good thanks. i agree, the weekend was too short ;)
[09:03] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti!
[09:04] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[09:04] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[09:06] <chrisccoulson> did you have a good weekend?
[09:08] <seb128> yes, too short
[09:09] <seb128> and I've noticed I had 336 bug emails since saturday
[09:09] <seb128> shrug
[09:09] <chrisccoulson> heh, yeah, i know that feeling (about the weekend being too short) ;)
[09:09] <seb128> I will spend another monday morning reading those
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that doesn't sound fun!
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> i don't get quite that many ;)
[09:14] <pitti> kwwii: what's the current state of gdm artwork?
[09:14] <mvo> seb128: good morning - do you have any idea about #437354 - might this be a side effect of the special handling in gnome-menus
[09:15] <seb128> hey mvo
[09:15] <seb128> looking
[09:16] <seb128> mvo, did he upgrade gnome-menus too?
[09:16] <seb128> if he did maybe the menu update didn't get triggered, would be worth trying a session restart
[09:17] <asac> bug 437354
[09:17] <asac> hmm
[09:17] <asac> whats the idea?
[09:17] <mvo> seb128: I will ask, I was just puzzled because in the screenshot both store and center are displayed in the top level
[09:17] <asac> yesterday i couldnt find the software-store ... then found it in system
[09:17] <asac> thats not the right place?
[09:18] <mvo> seb128: and that should only happen when the menu has a include-line for software-center, no?
[09:18] <seb128> mvo, he could have user edited the menu and have a .local copy with software-store
[09:18] <mvo> asac: the idea is that the name store vanishes entirely
[09:18] <seb128> asac, there is no software-store, it has been renamed
[09:18] <asac> back to -center?
[09:19] <mvo> seb128: oh, that makes sense, I will ask - that is stored in .local/share/applications ?
[09:19] <seb128> back?
[09:19] <mvo> it was app-center -> software-store -> software-center
[09:19] <asac> i thought it was called -center at some point
[09:19] <mvo> so lets see what it will become next ;)
[09:19] <asac> right ;)
[09:19] <seb128> mvo, rather .config/menus
[09:19] <asac> i am happy its not store
[09:19] <mvo> dholbach had this idea of "brown carpet"
[09:19] <asac> now we have to get rid of departments ;)
[09:20] <mvo> ++
[09:20] <asac> so for me its also still called software store in menu
[09:20] <asac> currently upgrading, but there is no upgrade for software-store
[09:21] <asac> sorry. scratch that
[09:21] <seb128> asac, it has been renamed, do you have a software-center?
[09:21] <asac> all fine
[09:21] <mvo> hm, -meta upload missing?
[09:21] <asac> i am getting the update now
[09:22] <\sh> hmmm...why is empathy just gone from the indicator applet since last week after some updates in karmic?
[09:23] <\sh> hmm...totally gone from the system it seems
[09:25] <pitti> hm, works here
[09:26] <seb128> here too
[09:26] <\sh> it's just disappeared last week I wonder why...
[09:26] <\sh> checking dpkg log or whatever give me this info
[09:27] <seb128> hate hate firefox
[09:27] <seb128> greasemonkey doesn't work again
[09:28] <seb128> and the restart button doesn't restart it
[09:28] <Amaranth> seb128: want my modified scripts for chromium? :)
[09:28] <seb128> and it fails to uninstall the installed greasemonkey
[09:29] <seb128> asac, could you help? I've some 360 emails from the weekend to triage and I can't do that without greasemonkey or it will take the day
[09:30] <kwwii> pitti: the artwork is done
[09:30] <kwwii> pitti: I am workong on some bug fixes and tweaks for the human theme, that's about it
[09:31] <kwwii> pitti: and I should be done with later today after my sons surgery
[09:31] <pitti> I'd like to integrate it RSN, it gets really late for beta; IIRC David/Cody were working on them?
[09:31] <pitti> kwwii: son> uh, good luck! *crossing fingers*
[09:32] <kwwii> pitti: dbarth said he was working on it...he should know more
[09:32] <kwwii> pitti: thanks :)
[09:38] <seb128> asac, don't bother I solved it now
[09:39] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - would you mind taking a look at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/gnome-python-extras/with-gda-module before I push it to ubuntu-desktop (if you get the chance)?
[09:39] <asac> seb128: the epiphany-extensions works
[09:39] <asac> its just not built;)
[09:39] <chrisccoulson> (i need to rebase it again on the latest version, as I see there was an upload just now)
[09:39] <seb128> will do but not this morning it's not even 11am and I feel under pressure already
[09:39] <seb128> zillion emails, bugs, pings, etc
[09:40] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks, now worries:)
[09:40] <chrisccoulson> s/now/no
[09:40] <seb128> thanks for the work on it ;-)
[09:43] <vuntz> pitti: guten tag
[09:43] <seb128> hey vuntz
[09:44] <seb128> it has been a while, how are you?
[10:02] <chrisccoulson> has anyone noticed that their screensaver never activates when idle now?
[10:02] <chrisccoulson> (or is that just me?)
[10:03] <seb128> I don't use screensaver on idle there
[10:03] <seb128> so I didn't notice
[10:03] <seb128> I often idle on TV but let IRC on screen to see pings etc
[10:04] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i'll have to look at it a bit more when i get home
[10:06] <vuntz> seb128: yeah, was away in the wild
[10:06] <andreasn> wild france?
[10:14] <seb128> pitti, I've uploaded a new xdg-user-dirs with the Download to Downloads rename from upstream + updated translations from it which we didn't have with the distro change
[10:18] <andreasn> mpt, I never got a reply if you knew someone who could hack up the -symbolic thing
[10:18] <mpt> andreasn, sorry, I didn't see you ask that
[10:18] <mpt> andreasn, I don't know.
[10:18] <andreasn> I think I wrote it in a e-mail as a response to your e-mail
[10:19] <andreasn> or, hm, did you get that? I recall having some smtp-issues while I tried to send that
[10:19]  * seb128 hates apport-collect
[10:19] <mvo> glatzor: hey! I want to attack bug #422585 now - unless you are currently looking into it?
[10:19] <seb128> or maybe launchpad
[10:19] <seb128> but having 26 bug emails and new comments on a bug by apport-collect run is ridiculous
[10:25] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, it's pretty bad when that happens. it should just roll them all in to one mail
[10:25] <mvo> glatzor: I will put the fixes into my mvo branch for now
[10:27] <slomo> seb128: any gstreamer related problems already? :)
[10:30] <seb128> hey slomo, no, no bug report following the change apparently ;-)
[10:31] <slomo> seb128: interesting :)
[10:31] <slomo> seb128: maybe nobody tests the beta? :P
[10:33] <seb128> slomo, oh, people will test beta this week for sure ;-)
[10:34] <slomo> seb128: ok, thanks anyway :) good to hear that i didn't introduce too obvious regressions :) did you see that patches in the bugreport? they're not really important, only take them if you're bored (or if one of the issues happens... very unlikely)
[10:35] <seb128> slomo, that will probably wait for after beta now
[10:37] <slomo> seb128: ok :)
[11:10] <mpt> andreasn, just found your message
[11:43] <asac> seb128: would it make sense to do a SRU for bug 262723 at some point? where the changes packaging related? or was it related to upstream fixes
[11:44] <seb128> asac, I think the change is that we have a trigger to update icon caches now
[11:44] <seb128> not sure
[11:44] <seb128> but that's a change in packaging tools iirc
[11:44] <seb128> not trivial for a backport
[11:45] <asac> ok
[12:29] <seb128> pitti, I've been trying to debug the indicator session crash with ted until 3am some days ago
[12:29] <seb128> it's an assert on dbus init
[12:29] <seb128> ted said he doesn't get how it can break there
[12:29] <seb128> and apport refuses to report the bug
[12:29] <pitti> uh
[12:29] <seb128> assertion without message
[12:30] <pitti> bug 436181 has all of it, thoug
[12:30] <seb128> pitti, "it" being?
[12:30] <seb128> the crash is on "    if (!org_freedesktop_DBus_request_name(bus_proxy, INDICATOR_USERS_DBUS_NAME, 0, &nameret, &error)) {" IIRC
[12:30] <pitti> stack trace, etc.
[12:30] <seb128> or rather that's the call failing
[12:31] <pitti> wrt. the "apport doesn't report" part
[12:31] <c_korn> seb128: hello. did my stacktrace help somehow ? I do not know if it is releated to this bug because before apport failed to get a stacktrace. I wondered why suddenly there was a stacktrace.
[12:31] <seb128> pitti, it's not an apport crash bug
[12:31] <pitti> seb128: I know, but we have all the info that apport would collect there
[12:31] <seb128> pitti, right
[12:31] <pitti> seb128: is it started late enough for the session d-bus to run already?
[12:31] <mpt> mvo, hi :-)
[12:32] <seb128> c_korn, out of the fact that you spammed me with 26 emails from the apport-collect which is really annoying, let me look
[12:32] <mpt> mvo, have you requested that all the software-store bug reports be moved over?
[12:33] <seb128> pitti, not sure, but ted said that should not be an issue
[12:33] <pitti> davidbarth: bonjour! can you please give me a heads-up about the gdm artwork status?
[12:33] <c_korn> seb128: yes, sorry about that. I thought multiple changes are collected in one mail. but it is not so with attachments. will upload a tarball next time. sorry :/
[12:33] <seb128> pitti,
[12:33] <seb128> "	if (proxy == NULL) {
[12:33] <seb128> 		/* If we don't have DBus, let's stay in the idle loop */
[12:33] <seb128> 		return TRUE;
[12:33] <seb128> 	}
[12:33] <seb128> 	if (!org_freedesktop_DBus_start_service_by_name (proxy, INDICATOR_SESSION_DBUS_NAME, 0, &returnval, &error)) {
[12:34] <seb128> 		g_error("Unable to send message to DBus to start service: %s", error != NULL ? error->message : "(NULL error)" );"
[12:34] <seb128>  
[12:34] <seb128> pitti, that's the code
[12:34] <seb128> pitti, it has thise "if we don't have dbus stay in idle"
[12:34] <seb128> and its this gerror
[12:35] <pitti> curious, why does software need to call this in the first place? isn't this already done automatically with a .service file?
[12:35] <seb128> I don't know enough about dbus to reply to that
[12:36] <pitti> ok
[12:36] <seb128> let's wait for ted and discuss with him
[12:37] <seb128> pitti, btw can you accept my gtk+ and xdg-user-dirs uploads?
[12:37] <pitti> the latter already done
[12:37] <pitti> will do gtk+ in a minute
[12:38] <seb128> thanks
[12:39] <seb128> pitti, about the indicator-session one it's annoying for beta since it freezes gnome-panel for a while during the apport run and you can't use anything during this time
[12:39] <seb128> you also get the "applet crashed, do you want to reload"
[12:39] <pitti> right
[12:39] <pitti> if we can fix it for beta, would be great
[12:40] <pitti> but it's not a blocker, so I milestoned it for final for now
[12:40] <mvo> mpt: not yet, I asked only for rename
[12:41] <seb128> pitti, ok, thanks
[12:41] <mvo> glatzor: I pushed a lp:~mvo/aptdaemon/allow-unauthenticated banch - could you please have a look and merge to trunk if you like it?
[12:49] <asac> seb128: some themes seem to have icon caches in hardy: http://paste.ubuntu.com/276601/
[12:50] <seb128> asac, indeed but "gnome" is not a theme, it's a dir where whatever application can install icons
[12:50] <seb128> asac, ie you can't rely on the icon cache to be uptodate without updating all the packages installing icons there
[12:50] <seb128> asac, ie you can't rely on the icon cache to be uptodate without updating all the packages installing icons there
[12:51] <seb128> ie, if gnome-icon-theme was updating the cache any software installing an icon there after that would be broken if it doesn't update the cache
[12:51] <asac> true
[12:51] <seb128> that's not the case for self contained themes
[12:51] <asac> thx for clarifying
[12:51] <asac> yeah
[12:51] <seb128> human-icon-theme could probably be fixed though
[12:53] <mpt> mvo, ok, I'll "ask" another "question" for it
[12:58] <glatzor> mvo, hello. sorry I am currently moving.
[12:58] <glatzor> mvo, so I cannot review and merge it this week
[12:58] <glatzor> mvo, I am now shutting down my old internet connection
[12:58] <mvo> glatzor: ok, no problem - do you mind if I put it in for beta as distro patches?
[12:58] <mvo> glatzor: *wehh* bye glatzor!
[12:59] <glatzor> mvo, this is absoulte ok
[12:59] <mvo> cool, thanks
[12:59] <glatzor> mvo, could you also merge the recent uploads into the ubuntu-karmic branch?
[12:59] <glatzor> mvo, this way I could help on the packaging better
[12:59] <glatzor> mvo, so see you in some days!
[13:00] <seb128> urg
[13:00] <seb128> james_w, did you grant the ffe on bug #437059 or just synced in middle of the discussion?
[13:01] <mvo> glatzor: sure
[13:01] <mvo> glatzor: see you
[13:01] <james_w> urgh, sorry, mis-synced that
[13:01] <seb128> james_w, that's ok, keep it, it looks ok
[13:01] <seb128> james_w, I just acked the request
[13:01] <james_w> thanks
[13:01] <seb128> james_w, I opened the bug to do that when I noticed it was closed ;-)
[13:02] <mvo> glatzor: hm, the branch (ubuntu-karmic) should be in sync
[13:05] <seb128> chrisccoulson, the g-p-e change, debian only added a python-gda binary, any need to split this one in ubuntu?
[13:06] <seb128> chrisccoulson, otherwise looks ok from a quick glance
[13:09] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - did debian do this change already?
[13:09] <seb128> chrisccoulson, this weekend apparently
[13:09] <chrisccoulson> ah, i must have missed that one then
[13:10] <chrisccoulson> i can merge the changes from debian instead
[13:10] <chrisccoulson> i thought debian would have done the split, seeing as they're trying to get rid of the python-gnome2-extras binary anyway
[13:10] <chrisccoulson> and pygda has its own pkg-config file, which makes it easy to split
[13:12] <seb128> chrisccoulson, they did split it but only with python-gda, anyway copying what they did would be nice, thanks
[14:01] <lool> mvo: Got my mail on software-center?
[14:06] <mvo> lool: yes, sorry that I have no acted on it yet
[14:06] <lool> mvo: Oh no it's fine
[14:06] <lool> mvo: Just checking it didn't get lost
[14:20] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[14:24] <pitti> hey rickspencer3, good morning
[14:29] <seb128> hey tedg
[14:31] <tedg> Good morning seb128!
[14:31] <rickspencer3> hi guys
[14:31] <rickspencer3> using empathy on my netbook, it's acting just a tad wonky
[14:32] <seb128> rickspencer3, tedg: did you guys have a good weekend?
[14:32] <kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
[14:32] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3, morning tedg
[14:32] <tedg> kenvandine: Do you know why Empathy puts that black line in the notification area?
[14:32] <kenvandine> ?
[14:32] <rickspencer3> hi didrocks, hi kenvandine, tedg
[14:32] <tedg> seb128: Yes, mostly got silly stuff done, but it's done! :)
[14:32] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: it imported my pidgin accounts, was a bit confusing, and then crashed :(
[14:32] <seb128> ;-)
[14:32] <rickspencer3> seems ok now
[14:32]  * kenvandine did too much work around the house
[14:32] <tedg> didrocks: Good mornign!
[14:33] <seb128> tedg, speaking about silly stuff the bug we debugged until late the other day has been marked karmic blocker
[14:33] <seb128> tedg, seems to happen on liveCD at every boot
[14:33] <kenvandine> ewww
[14:33] <seb128> the one about the session indicator crashing on dbus assertion
[14:33] <Zdra> tedg, I aslo noticed that black line in notification area
[14:34] <Zdra> it is because of kenvandine indicator patch probably, I don't have that issue with upstream empathy
[14:34] <kenvandine> Zdra, i bet it is related to how we don't show the icon
[14:34] <tedg> seb128: :(  Okay.
[14:34] <kenvandine> tedg, please file a bug :)
[14:34] <kenvandine> should be an easy fix
[14:34] <tedg> Zdra: I'm guessing it's because the icons is being hidden and not the status area container?
[14:34] <seb128> kenvandine, there is some bugs about that already I think
[14:35] <kenvandine> seb128, about the line? i haven't seen one
[14:35] <seb128> tedg, pitti was wondering why you don't rely on the .service to dbus active things too
[14:35] <Zdra> I noticed that the fast user switch applet's presence icon gets confused sometimes with hidden state
[14:35] <Zdra> but at least now it shows presence and not always offline :D
[14:36] <pitti> hey tedg
[14:36] <kenvandine> Zdra, indeed :)
[14:36] <tedg> seb128: I am using the service file, I'm just requesting that it start.  We need it to send us signals of changes.
[14:36] <seb128> kenvandine, bug #434316 for example
[14:36] <tedg> Zdra: Well, we're justing using libempathy, so if it's wrong you should blame those Empathy guys ;)
[14:36] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm
[14:36] <dobey> pitti: care to look at the branch in bug #434884 ? :)
[14:36] <seb128> kenvandine, not sure if that's a gtk issue or update-notifier has the same issue or if it's wrongly assigned
[14:36] <pitti> tedg: hm, I didn't see that function call being used elsewhere; out of interest, why is it necessary?
[14:37] <pitti> dobey: heh, next one in my mail box incidentally :)
[14:37] <chrisccoulson> i assigned bug 434316 to update-notifier because i see the black bar when i log in sometimes, and before i open empathy
[14:37] <dobey> pitti: yay :)
[14:37] <Zdra> tedg, ah... I though it was using MC5 directly :p
[14:37] <tedg> pitti: It starts the process.  I guess we could just call a function on it, but at least from what I've read that seems to be the way you're supposed to start a process.
[14:37] <pitti> dobey: oh, why can't you land changes in trunk?
[14:38] <tedg> Zdra: Tried that, gave up and used libempathy. :)
[14:38] <dobey> pitti: we don't have separate stable branches yet
[14:38] <Zdra> tedg, is that python code?
[14:38] <Zdra> tedg, or C api?
[14:38] <dobey> pitti: so if it lands in trunk, it's going to end up in karmic
[14:38] <tedg> Zdra: C
[14:38] <pitti> tedg: seems I didn't stumble over this documentation then; in my own projects I just call the actual d-bus methods and let d-bus worry about activation
[14:39] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i've seen that fail on the first call before
[14:39] <pitti> dobey: so, what does the branch change?
[14:39] <tedg> pitti: Hmm, interesting.  I wonder if that function is buggy, and no one uses it, so no one has noticed before :-/
[14:39] <chrisccoulson> eg, currently users-admin sometimes fails the first time you open it, even though system-tools-backends gets activated
[14:40] <chrisccoulson> and then it works the second time you run it
[14:40] <chrisccoulson> and i've seen it with other stuff i've worked on as well
[14:40] <kenvandine> seb128, ok i am pretty sure that is empathy causing it not update-notifier
[14:40] <kenvandine> it happens when you get an incoming message
[14:40] <pitti> tedg, chrisccoulson: interesting; so this rather sounds like a proper d-bus bug then
[14:40] <kenvandine> just starting empathy doesn't put the line up there
[14:41]  * kenvandine is going to be in that part of the patch today and will look
[14:41] <dobey> pitti: a lot. splits the prefs UI into a separate program in $bindir, adds another launcher for System->Preferences to only launch the prefs UI, and opens the prefs UI if the client is already running and you run it again. and it adds the necessary little bit of dbus methods so that the prefs UI can signal the applet for changes
[14:42] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i think that was also the underlying issue in bug 376145 too
[14:42] <pitti> dobey: does it drop the Apps -> Internet -> Ubuntu One menu entry?
[14:42] <dobey> no
[14:42] <pitti> chrisccoulson: likely
[14:42] <tedg> seb128: kenvandine: pitti: So what's the criteria for stuff between beta freeze and beta release?  Crashers only, right?  I've got a fix for the messaging menu icons, it's pretty trivial, but I'm guessing it'll have to wait.
[14:42] <pitti> dobey: but that one doesn't do anything..
[14:43] <dobey> yes it does. it starts the applet, and takes you through the whole initial process of signing up/etc...
[14:43] <dobey> one minute
[14:43] <pitti> tedg: not "crashers only", but only changes which have a very low regression potential
[14:43] <pitti> dobey: I don't see a reason why this and prefs can't be covered with one menu entry
[14:43] <pitti> otherwise one of them is always useless
[14:44] <pitti> if you didn't activate U1, then the Apps->Internet one doesn't make sense
[14:44] <pitti> and if you did, it starts automatically and it doesn't make sense either
[14:45] <kenvandine> pitti, yeah i said the same thing... it belongs in prefs and the one in the internet menu is useless :)
[14:45] <tedg> pitti: I of course think it's perfect :)  Here is the change  http://ur1.ca/cjpq  If you guys want it all make a release as it's in the auto* stuff.
[14:46] <pitti> tedg: that looks like a build-time only change?
[14:46] <pitti> tedg: oh, apparenlty not
[14:46] <pitti> tedg: yes, it looks fine to me
[14:47] <tedg> pitti: It installs the icons in the right place.
[14:47] <pitti> tedg: indeed, this was a regression
[14:47] <pitti> you don't see new messages coming in at all any more now
[14:47] <pitti> tedg: thanks for fixing
[14:48] <tedg> pitti: Yeah, at least for me I didn't notice until the humanity icon theme change -- I imagine a bunch of others were in the same situation :)
[14:49] <seb128> mvo, how busy are you? would want to look at the vte stable update which fixes reset crashing g-t and some other issues too?
[14:49] <Amaranth> mvo: so far a new git snapshot of compiz plus fixes in bzr will fix 11 bugs, might hit 20 before we can make another upload :)
[14:49] <seb128> mvo, I'm always reluctant to touch vte in case it would break some of your packaging tools magic ;-)
[14:50] <mvo> seb128: its already broken :( there is a bug in gdebi that looks a lot like a vte problem to me
[14:50] <seb128> mvo, want to look at the update in case it fixes it ? ;-)
[14:51] <seb128> mvo, http://download.gnome.org/sources/vte/0.22/vte-0.22.1.tar.gz
[14:51] <seb128> mvo, it's probably trivial packaging wise, ie dch and build
[14:54] <dobey> sigh
[14:55] <mvo> seb128: ok, I have a look
[14:55] <seb128> mvo, thanks
[14:55] <dobey> pitti, kenvandine: there's no other way to do the initial set up right now, and removing the internet entry is a LOT more infrastructure work
[14:56] <pitti> dobey: but you are just adding a new prefs entry? this would certainly also configure whether or not to run it (now|on startup)?
[14:56] <dobey> it doesn't configure when it gets run
[14:57] <kenvandine> pitti, that is the infrastructure changes dobey was talking about
[14:57] <dobey> kenvandine: no, the infrastructure changes are we have a web site with instructions that tell people to go to Applications->Internet->Ubuntu One, also
[14:57] <pitti> but ubuntuone-client-applet.desktop does nothing else than starting the applet
[14:58] <pitti> which can certainly be done by the prefs .desktop or prefs application as well?
[14:58] <dobey> it doesn't make sense for the prefs app to start the applet
[14:58] <kenvandine> dobey, website can be changed..
[14:58] <pitti> and even worse
[14:58] <kenvandine> dobey, why?
[14:58] <pitti> the menu entry in apps starts more instances of ubuntuone-client-applet
[14:58] <dobey> kenvandine: yes, but it's not just landing a branch and we're done and everything is happy, it's a lot of work
[14:59] <dobey> pitti: no it doesn't
[14:59]  * kenvandine still doesn't think u1 is an application you run... it is a service your desktop uses
[14:59] <pitti> it doesn't make sense to have more than one, and there's no visual feedback
[14:59] <dobey> pitti: it's uniquified via dbus
[14:59] <pitti> martin    1880  0.2  1.5 278928 31332 ?        Sl   10:40   0:47 /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/ubuntuone-client-applet
[14:59] <dobey> and yes there's currently no visual feedback (which this obviously changes)
[14:59] <pitti> martin   20406 28.0  0.9 182152 18564 ?        R    15:58   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/ubuntuone-client-applet
[15:00] <pitti> ah, it seems to go away after a bit
[15:00] <dobey> well yes, it starts and pokes dbus and then exits
[15:00] <dobey> and prints out "Already running"
[15:00] <dobey> (on stdout)
[15:01] <pitti> so, as long as its unconfigured it shouldn't start
[15:01] <pitti> and if you configure/enable it, it should just start with the session
[15:01] <pitti> I still fail to see when users ever need to run that apps->internet thing
[15:02] <dobey> phone...
[15:02] <pitti> dobey: (for the record, the other chagnes in that branch are approved, see bug update)
[15:04] <dobey> pitti: running the applet from apps internet is how the user goes through the whole process of signing up for ubuntu one and associating the computer with their account
[15:06] <pitti> dobey: so, for beta this is something we can live with and document, but isn't there any way the startup cuold be done by the prefs applet by final?
[15:06] <pitti> it'd be a shame to spoil the U1 experience by weird UI bugs like this
[15:06] <dobey> going to preferences to start an app doesn't make sense to me
[15:06] <pitti> it's not an app...
[15:06] <pitti> it's a service like tracker or gnome-settings-daemon
[15:07] <dobey> then why is gwibber in Applications->Internet?
[15:07] <pitti> it has an app window and interaction, much like empathy?
[15:07] <pitti> (Disclaimer: I don't use/know gwibber, but I saw a screenshot)
[15:08] <dobey> but it gets started at log-in after i set it up, and the main window is mostly hidden
[15:08] <pitti> dobey: if U1 would pop up a main window like emphaty or gwibber when you select apps->internet->U1, that would make sense
[15:08] <dobey> as i understand it, the majority of interaction with it for karmic is to be through the messaging indicator no?
[15:08] <pitti> no, you need the actual app windows
[15:08] <dobey> pitti: it does
[15:09] <pitti> you can't read/write messages through the indicator
[15:09] <pitti> dobey: no, it doesn't
[15:09] <pitti> not always, anyway
[15:09] <pitti> if I select it here, it just does nothing
[15:09] <dobey> pitti: yes it does. the first time, it opens firefox, and in this branch, it opens the prefs.
[15:09] <kenvandine> dobey, that would have been true if DX was able to finish the session integration stuff
[15:09] <dobey> kenvandine: oh ok.
[15:10] <kenvandine> dobey, but for now you can't do much with it without a real client
[15:10] <kenvandine> but u1 is really a service, not an app
[15:11] <dobey> we don't have time to completely redesign the UI for karmic
[15:11] <pitti> we don't need to
[15:11] <pitti> we just need to change the prefs applet to start the service for you once, after you configured it?
[15:12] <dobey> you're confusing preferences with setup. they aren't the same thing
[15:12] <pitti> I know
[15:12] <pitti> but if it's not running, it'd show the thing that now appears in apps->internet
[15:12] <dobey> what would?
[15:12] <pitti> and if it's running, it would show the prefs instead
[15:13] <dobey> now you're confusing me
[15:13] <pitti> what> system -> prefs -> u1
[15:13] <dobey> why should opening a preferences dialog start a browser?
[15:13]  * pitti gives up
[15:13] <dobey> wouldn't that seem a bit off?
[15:14] <pitti> why should the other menu entry do?
[15:14] <dobey> if you opened a prefs dialog, and then all of a sudden a firefox window opened up ?
[15:14] <pitti> why have two menu entries if one will always be useless and confusing?
[15:14] <dobey> it's not useless and confusing
[15:15] <pitti> a non-working menu entry makes sense to you?
[15:16] <dobey> it's not non-working
[15:16] <kenvandine> dobey, why doesn't gwibber need to open a browser window to auth facebook?
[15:16] <kenvandine> same thing
[15:16] <pitti> it doesn't do anything for everyone who set up U1 before
[15:16] <pitti> but well, I already said that like 10 times
[15:16] <kenvandine> s/doesn't/does
[15:17] <dobey> pitti: YES IT DOES
[15:17] <kenvandine> the menu under internet is completely useless after the initial setup
[15:17] <Amaranth> kenvandine: Doesn't it just show it in the embedded webkit?
[15:17] <dobey> pitti: read the code in the branch linked on that bug!
[15:17] <kenvandine> Amaranth, well yes it does
[15:17] <kenvandine> :)
[15:17] <kenvandine> but it opens a window and does something
[15:17] <kenvandine> same ting
[15:17] <kenvandine> thing
[15:18] <kenvandine> in fact, u1 could open an embedded webkit window to do the auth
[15:18] <dobey> nevermind
[15:18] <kenvandine> but that could be the first thing you do in the preferences dialog
[15:18] <dobey> kenvandine: feel free to write the patch in the next 30 minutes then
[15:18] <kenvandine> :)
[15:18] <kenvandine> i am not saying that is important :)
[15:19] <kenvandine> but it would be nice to be able to axe the launcher under internet
[15:19] <dobey> and we can't just embed webkit
[15:19] <dobey> that defeats the entire purpose of the user having a preferred web browsesr
[15:19] <kenvandine> surely it is easy to determine if you haven't authenticated with u1 when opening the prefs dialog and spawn a browser
[15:20] <kenvandine> dobey, they would never know it is a browser
[15:20] <dobey> it's not that easy
[15:20] <dobey> kenvandine: yes they would
[15:20] <dobey> kenvandine: authentication for u1 doesn't exactly work like it does on facebook
[15:20] <Amaranth> kenvandine: If you did that I'd have to login to launchpad again :/
[15:20] <kenvandine> hehe
[15:21] <kenvandine> dobey, i know the embedded browser bit isn't reasonable for right now
[15:21] <kenvandine> but
[15:21] <dobey> it isn't reasonable ever
[15:21] <kenvandine> determining if you have configured your account before, and if not doing what the launcher does now seems simeple
[15:21] <pitti> dobey: #434884 doesn't tell anything about changing the behaviour of apps->internet->u1 *shrug*
[15:22] <dobey> pitti: look at the end of the changes to ubuntuone-client-applet
[15:25] <pitti> dobey: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Edobey/ubuntuone-client/accessible-prefs/revision/222 ? that just seems to change bin/ubuntuone-client-applet to open the now-external prefs app?
[15:25] <dobey> pitti: yes, like i said. it opens the prefs app if you run the client when it's already running
[15:26]  * Amaranth wonders why his ISP hates launchpad
[15:26] <pitti> right, which is also done with system -> prefs -> u1
[15:27] <dpm> mvo: re: bug 438077 is there anything particular in how the translation template for update-manager is created? It seems that the latest template was imported correctly last week -> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/update-manager/+imports?field.filter_status=all&field.filter_extension=pot so I can't quite understand what the reporter means by "not up to date"
[15:32]  * dobey gives up. too frustrated already.
[15:34] <dobey> ugh, after beta? :(
[15:41] <dobey> so what kind of exceptions are we going to need to be able to fix bugs after beta now?
[15:41] <Laney> goes back to FF
[15:42] <mvo> dpm: I have a look
[15:43] <dpm> mvo: thanks, (it's the same question being asked on ubuntu-devel)
[15:44] <dobey> pitti: so basically, there's no way i can get this, or the icons in, for beta?
[15:50] <pitti> dobey: the new prefs thing is approved
[15:50] <pitti> and the second menu entry can be sorted out after beta
[15:51] <pitti> if we can get the package today, it can make beta
[15:55] <dobey> ok
[16:02] <hggdh> seb128: I published the libpst and an updated Evolution on my PPA. Seems to work. Do you want the debdiff for Evo?
[16:02] <hggdh> and good morning
[16:02] <hggdh> :-)
[16:06] <james_w> hggdh: your libpst update seems to have broken libpst-dev
[16:06] <james_w> could you take a look please?
[16:07] <Laney> oh, crap
[16:08] <hggdh> james_w: it did break it, and I gave Laney an update
[16:08] <Laney> I was supposed to sponsor something for that wasn't I
[16:08]  * Laney runs
[16:08] <hggdh> Laney: ;-)
[16:08]  * Laney runs so fast
[16:08] <Laney> can I have the diff again? :(
[16:08]  * hggdh begs Laney's pardon
[16:08] <hggdh> Laney: people.ubuntu.com/public_html/libpst_0.6.41-0ubuntu2.diff.gz
[16:09] <Laney> public_html?!
[16:09] <dobey> heh
[16:09] <hggdh> Laney, don't ask me. I just followed orders...
[16:09] <Laney> I mean, click that link...
[16:09] <Laney> ;)
[16:10] <Laney> you want /~hggdh2/
[16:10] <hggdh> Laney, http://people.ubuntu.com/~hggdh2/
[16:12] <hggdh> the problems with copy & paste are shown visibly, I guess :-(
[16:13] <Laney> never mind
[16:14] <Laney> building
[16:16] <hggdh> Laney, thank you, and sorry for the error on the first try
[16:17] <Laney> oh, I made an error too didn't I?
[16:17] <Laney> I never renamed the -dev.install file
[16:17] <Laney> :)
[16:18] <Laney> uploaded
[16:18] <Laney> btw, you only need a diff.gz for new upstream releases - a debdiff here would have been fine
[16:19] <hggdh> Laney, thank you.
[16:19]  * hggdh learns
[16:20] <Laney> also please be more verbose in your changelogs :)
[16:21] <seb128> hggdh, hey, yes please add those on the bug
[16:21] <hggdh> Laney, I really thought I was more verbose
[16:22] <Laney> hggdh: I try to say where, what, why for each change
[16:22] <Laney> although that much detail is not always needed
[16:27] <lool> pitti: Is there an easy way for end users of an OEM image to change the project to which apport is reporting bugs to?
[16:27] <lool> Or ubuntu-bug in fact
[16:29] <hggdh> Laney, will do.
[16:31] <Laney> james_w: ^^, libpst should now be in the queue (don't know if you need it)
[16:31] <james_w> nope
[16:31] <james_w> just wanted it fixed :-)
[16:31] <james_w> thanks all
[16:31] <Laney> no worries hombre
[16:32] <Laney> I should get a better todo list than my short-term memory
[16:33] <hggdh> Laney: is this, then, good, or should I expand the changelog entries? http://pastebin.com/f67cfd080
[16:34] <Laney> hggdh: Seems like the second item is also part of the first but looks good to me
[16:36] <hggdh> well, yes, but you told me to be explicit, and I *did* change them ;-)
[16:43] <d6g> could anyone please tell me whom i should talk to if i'd like to suggest a patch to gnome-bluetooth? who is the ubuntu maintainer?
[16:43] <d6g> its about this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/humanity-icon-theme/+bug/437162
[16:52] <seb128> d6g, you can subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors
[16:52] <seb128> d6g, or try talking to asac there
[16:52] <hggdh> question re. bug 313579: should the new libpst be backported to Hardy?
[16:52] <Laney> if it works, feel free to request the backport
[16:53] <d6g> seb128: roger
[16:53] <seb128> hggdh, no
[16:53] <seb128> oh "backported" in the sense of "ubuntu-backport"? no opinion
[16:53] <seb128> it's not really a new version compared to hardy, rather a different codebase no?
[16:54] <hggdh> well, it is both a new version and a different codebase
[16:54] <asac> d6g: you can talk to me
[16:54] <asac> when you have something
[16:54] <hggdh> and 0.5.3 will not do the trick for all Outlook 2003+ PSTs
[16:56] <d6g> asac: its about the bluetooth applet should use an different icon for the the system tray, so the humanity theme can use grayscaled icon there and avoid affecting the menu entry
[16:56] <asac> aha
[16:56] <asac> so its a common problem ;)
[16:56] <d6g> mac_v thinks maybe ubuntu provides a patch instead of waiting for upstream
[16:56] <asac> i was also asked to duplicate icons for try vs. dialogs for nm
[16:57] <asac> d6g: maintaining this without upstream consent would mean endless merging
[16:58] <asac> i will check that at the same time
[16:58] <d6g> i see, actually its just 1 line in notify.c
[17:26] <rugby471> mvo: are you here?
[17:26] <mvo> rugby471: yes, for some more minutes at last (I will have to leave in ~30min or so)
[17:27] <rugby471> mvo: cool regrading bug 437204
[17:27] <rugby471> *regarding
[17:27] <rugby471> the bug is there becuase we have put the installed emblem in the hicolor/*/emblems folders
[17:28] <rugby471> I am going to move it to /usr/share/software-center/icons/*/emblems
[17:28] <rugby471> mvo: ^ do you agree?
[17:30] <mvo> yes
[17:30] <mvo> thats fine
[17:30] <mvo> if it fixes the bug
[17:30] <mvo> :)
[17:32] <rugby471> mvo: it is just you are a lot more experienced than me at the conventions of gnome desktop apps :-)
[17:32] <rugby471> mvo: hopefully I can fix two other bugs as well :-)
[17:32] <rugby471> mvo: one more question
[17:33] <rugby471> mvo: it seems we cannot have both a resize grippy in software-store and centered status bar text
[17:33] <rugby471> mvo: which do we want (I vote resize grippy, it is usability as opposed to aesthetics)
[17:33] <rugby471> ?
[17:34] <mvo> rugby471: I have not found a way to easy set a GtkStatusbar to miggle alignment
[17:35] <mvo> but maybe its enough to put it into a Gtkalignment, I have not really digged deep
[17:35] <rugby471> mvo: yeah that is the problem, there is no generic resize grippy widget and no way to center the statusbar text
[17:35] <mvo> rugby471: but I agree, its anoying. if we can not have both (for now) then I think mpt need to make a call what he considers more important
[17:35] <rugby471> mvo: okay
[17:35] <mvo> rugby471: ok, that matches what I found
[17:35] <mvo> (or not found :)
[17:36] <rugby471> mvo: hehe
[17:36] <rugby471> mvo: hehe I have 12 conflict with latest merge :-(
[17:40] <mvo> seb128: I commited the 0.22.1 changes for vte, but I have not uploaded yet as it does not fix my gdebi problem
[17:47] <pitti> lool: sorry, missed your ping earlier; in fact there is, you can ship a custom crashdb configuration
[17:48] <pitti> lool: I thought OEM images would already do that, I discussed that with QA last cycle
[17:49] <pitti> lool: you need to ship a file like /etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/ubuntuone-client-crashdb.conf
[17:50] <pitti> lool: and in the package hook, set report['CrashDB'] = 'mydbname'
[17:50] <pitti> lool: you can do that conditionally, look at /usr/share/apport/package-hooks/source_ubuntuone-client.py for an example
[17:53] <seb128> mvo, ok
[17:56] <rugby471> mvo: how does setup.py move the icons to the correct places (ie. how can I override it for the emblems?)
[17:57] <rugby471> mvo: if I put the emblems stuff in the data_files part will they get moved correctly?
[17:57] <mvo> rugby471: python-disturils-extra
[17:59] <davidbarth> pitti: good tag pitti; checking with bratsche for that
[18:00] <lool> pitti: that uses the corresponding launchpad project?
[18:00] <lool> pitti: I love you so much
[18:00] <pitti> lool: yes, the one that you specify in the crash db .conf (project = 'foo')
[18:00]  * pitti hugs lool
[18:02] <bratsche> pitti: Hi
[18:02] <pitti> hey bratsche, how are you?
[18:03] <bratsche> pitti: I'm supposed to talk to you about setting the gdm style.. I got it setup here locally, and wanted to see if my solution sounds okay to you.
[18:03] <pitti> sure
[18:04] <pitti> we need to get that in today, really
[18:04] <pitti> or after beta (which isn't the end of the world, but well..)
[18:04] <bratsche> pitti: My solution was to modify /usr/share/gdm/autostart/LoginWindow/metacity.desktop and gdm-simple-greeter.desktop to change their Exec lines to some .sh file that does this:
[18:04] <bratsche> GTK2_RC_FILES=/usr/share/themes/HumanLogin/gtk-2.0/gtkrc metacity
[18:05] <bratsche> or GTK2_RC_FILES=/usr/share/themes/HumanLogin/gtk-2.0/gtkrc /usr/lib/gdm/gdm-simple-greeter
[18:05] <pitti> hmm
[18:06] <pitti> bratsche: can't the theme pacakage just install /var/lib/gdm/.gtkrc ?
[18:06] <pitti> (or wherever the default path in $HOME is)
[18:06] <mclasen> bratsche: why not set /desktop/gnome/interface/gtk-theme ? thats how it is supposed to work, at least...
[18:06] <mclasen> in gdms gconf db, or course
[18:06] <bratsche> pitti: I thought kwwii or someone said that's not working anymore?
[18:06] <pitti> bratsche: we can set gconf values for the 'gdm' user in the postinst, too
[18:06] <seb128> +1 for setting gconf keys in the gdm user config
[18:07] <bratsche> pitti: Oh we can?  Becaues davidbarth also wants us to change the desktop background for the gdm user and I wasn't sure how to do that.
[18:07] <seb128> or copying a .gtkrc is the gdm user dir but that might be taken over by g-s-d and gconf keys
[18:07] <pitti> bratsche: but for stuff which needs config files and not gconf, we could just install them into gdm's home dir (/var/lib/gdm)
[18:07] <seb128> pitti, there is no such things
[18:07] <seb128> background, theme etc are gconf keys as for the desktop config
[18:07] <pitti> bratsche: btw, you don't need a shell script wrapper; you could just Exec=env foo=BAR program
[18:07] <seb128> that's a normal gnome-session running
[18:07] <pitti> seb128: right, so I'd guess
[18:07] <pitti> and we can just call gconftool for the gdm user in postinst and set them
[18:08] <seb128> pitti, yes
[18:08] <bratsche> Where is gdm user's gconf stored?
[18:08] <seb128> that's what I suggested on the channel some days ago
[18:08] <seb128> bratsche, /var/lib/gdm
[18:08] <pitti> bratsche: I thought I already said that to kwwii ("just give us the background and the gconf keys we should change")
[18:09] <bratsche> pitti: Oh, okay.. then somewhere along the way we lost communication.  So davidbarth wants the background image set to the same one as xsplash's background.
[18:09] <bratsche> Let me find the key for the background..
[18:10] <bratsche> For the theme the one we want is /usr/share/themes/HumanLogin/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
[18:11] <bratsche> And the key is /desktop/gnome/interface/gtk-theme (thanks mclasen!)
[18:11] <bratsche> pitti: You want me to email you these?
[18:12] <seb128> bratsche, use the bug for those?
[18:12] <seb128> I will do some sponsoring later
[18:12] <pitti> bratsche: please put them into a bug report; I need to leave soon for Taekwondo, and still need to sponsor something for kenvandine, so I won't get around to doing that one today any more
[18:12] <seb128> but for now I need to go for sport and dinner
[18:12] <bratsche> pitti: Cool, have fun.
[18:12] <seb128> I can have a look maybe later
[18:12] <pitti> bratsche: can you please subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors, me, and seb128?
[18:12] <bratsche> seb128: Thanks dude, it'll be waiting for you when you get back. :)
[18:12] <bratsche> pitti: Will do.  Thanks!
[18:13] <pitti> great
[18:14] <mat_t> seb128: hey
[18:15] <seb128> mat_t, hey and bye I'm already late for sport and dinner
[18:15] <seb128> mat_t, anything I can help you with or should look at later?
[18:15] <bratsche> eek, Launchpad is blowing up on me when I try to file this bug.
[18:15] <seb128> bratsche, isn't there a bug you opened friday about that already?
[18:15] <mat_t> seb128: we need to sort out couple of icons for gdm
[18:15] <mat_t> seb128: we can do it tomorrow though, have a good evening!
[18:16] <mat_t> :P)
[18:16] <seb128> mat_t, ok, I need to go sorry but catch with me tomorrow or later or let bratche know
[18:16] <seb128> I will be back in some hours
[18:16] <seb128> thanks, you too
[18:16] <mat_t> ok, see you!
[18:16] <bratsche> Oh yeah, you're right.
[18:16] <seb128> bratsche, good ;-)
[18:17] <seb128> bye there
[18:41] <pitti> good night everyone, cu tomorrow
[18:52] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i just rebuilt system-tools-backends with a sleep(5) in between starting and grabbing the dbus name. with this, users-admin fails on every first run, even though s-t-b is activated
[18:52] <chrisccoulson> suggesting that dbus activation is inherently racy
[18:52] <chrisccoulson> (i know you've already disappeared for the evening) ;)
[19:12] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm, in the case of system-tools-backends, activation "fails" because it daemonize's before claiming the name on the bus
[19:15] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I don't see what this spawn an error (daemonizing before registering to dbus)
[19:16] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - if you run something like "dbus-send --system --dest='org.freedesktop.DBus' --print-reply --type=method_call /org/freedesktop/DBus org.freedesktop.DBus.StartServiceByName string:"org.freedesktop.SystemToolsBackends" uint32:0"
[19:16] <chrisccoulson> then it returns with this error:
[19:16] <chrisccoulson> "Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Spawn.ChildExited: Launch helper exited with unknown return code 0"
[19:17] <chrisccoulson> this happens because the spawned process exits when it daemonizes
[19:17] <chrisccoulson> tricking dbus in to thinking that activation failed
[19:17] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: does the indicator-session's lock screen option work for you?
[19:17] <mac_v> since a couple of days , it stopped working here :(
[19:17] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - yes that works
[19:17] <chrisccoulson> is gnome-screensaver running in your session?
[19:18] <mac_v> yup , the screensaver is running
[19:18] <mac_v> also the screensaver activates , only this option form indicator session doesnt work :/
[19:20] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh ok, you mean when the process is launched by dbus
[19:25] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - yeah, that's what i meant ;)
[19:25] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - do you use autologin?
[19:25] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: yes
[19:25] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: make sense then :)
[19:25] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - that's why it doesn't work
[19:25] <mac_v> aw :(
[19:25] <chrisccoulson> if (gdm_auto_login) {
[19:26] <chrisccoulson> g_debug("\tGDM set to autologin, blocking lock");
[19:26] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[19:26] <mac_v> what! why!
[19:26] <chrisccoulson> probably in case you have no password to unlock it again
[19:27] <mac_v> no fair :(
[19:27] <mac_v> my  gpm doesnt work! properly and locking was my best option
[19:27] <mac_v> and not thats gone too!
[19:28] <chrisccoulson> right, so i now understand why dbus activation fails for users-admin and system-tools-backends
[19:28] <chrisccoulson> although, i don't know what relevance that has to anyone else having issues with activation
[19:28] <chrisccoulson> probably none!
[19:29] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: can i file a bug...? i almost always lock screen when i move aways from the system...
[19:29] <mac_v> away*
[19:29] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - you don't need to ask me if you can file a bug ;)
[19:29] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: i meant , would it be fixed or is it futile ;)
[19:29] <chrisccoulson> i don't know
[19:29] <chrisccoulson> only tedg knows that ;)
[19:30] <mac_v> grr.... tedg  ;p
[19:31] <tedg> chrisccoulson: mac_v: We were probably over zealous with that, I'm not sure what the right answer is though.
[19:31] <mac_v> tedg: surely... *very*
[19:31] <chrisccoulson> me neither, i don't use autologin ;)
[19:32] <mac_v> tedg: filing a bug... hope it doesnt turn out like the always show indicator bug ;)
[19:32] <chrisccoulson> if you're using autologin, is there any point in  locking the screen?
[19:32] <tedg> The problem is that there is a pretty huge set of people with autologin where "Lock Screen" is roughly like "force power down computer" because that's what they're going to end up doing.
[19:33] <tedg> chrisccoulson: That too!
[19:33] <tedg> Rebooting solves the "unlocking" problem with autologin.
[19:33] <chrisccoulson> tedg - perhaps the "lock screen" option should be hidden from the menu in this case?
[19:33] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: why not? why do i have to choose.? my system is always running 24/7
[19:33] <mac_v> so when i'm away i lock screen
[19:34] <chrisccoulson> i don't know what the answer is either really ;)
[19:34] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: ohno!
[19:34] <tedg> chrisccoulson: That's what I'm thinking.
[19:34] <mac_v> tedg: pls! no
[19:34] <mac_v> why does the solution to a problem always have to be removing the option :/
[19:34] <tedg> If it's up 24/7 turning off autologin shouldn't be an issue :)
[19:35] <mac_v> you guys are making me cry :(
[19:35] <tedg> It seems like there is a usecase for turning off the screen though.  I'm curious if it shouldn't migrate from "Lock Screen" to "Turn off display"
[19:35] <tedg> (better wording though)
[19:36] <mac_v> first ... the only once auto-login , now no lock on auto-login,
[19:36]  * mac_v life getting hard
[19:36] <mac_v> harder*
[19:37] <chrisccoulson> tedg - in my case, "Lock Screen" only locks my screen - the display never goes off here
[19:38] <tedg> chrisccoulson: Hmm, yeah.  I was thinking about that, but "Erase Desktop" seemed like a really bad idea ;)
[19:38] <chrisccoulson> haha, yeah, i think that would upset a few people ;)
[19:38] <mac_v> lol erase;p
[19:40] <mac_v> tedg: seriously... how many people have forgotten the password?
[19:40] <mac_v> it is used for most of the root priv
[19:40] <tedg> Everyone who doesn't have it written under their mousepad ;)
[19:41] <mac_v> lol! thats why have an easy password ;)
[19:41] <tedg> I'm not advocating getting rid of passwords, but I think especially people who are using things like UNR don't know them.
[19:41] <mac_v> tedg: then do it for UNR... why me = ubunutu
[19:42] <mac_v> ;p
[19:45] <mac_v> tedg: also , now the session list has all the names of the users.. but when selecting it behaves like the new session menu only...
[19:46] <mac_v> ie: selecting the different user , takes me to the login screen
[19:46] <mac_v> tedg: rather than preselecting the selected user and prompting for password
[19:47] <tedg> mac_v: Yes, we haven't figured out how to select a username in the new-gdm yet :(
[19:47] <tedg> mac_v: It may be another feature dropped in gdm-2.
[19:47]  * tedg is really not loving the new gdm.
[19:48] <mac_v> oh... no one is loving it either ;)
[19:48] <mac_v> almost every day there are 2 people asking where is the customization options for the gdm on u+1
[19:50] <tedg> Yup.  I was hoping it wouldn't be in Karmic, but eh.
[19:54] <mac_v> tedg: solution: by default , turn off the lock screen option when user has installed the system and selected autologin during install. and present the option in the login screen menu for re-selecting the lock screen option?
[19:54] <mac_v> s/login screen menu/ login screen preferences window
[19:56] <tedg> mac_v: I guess I'm unsure of what problem that solves.  I mean, there is still the security issue of having autologin.  And it still leaves the problem of someone unfamiliar with their password because they don't typically use it.
[19:56] <ColonelC81> Hi anyone know where i can download Metaflac ???
[20:09] <dobey> google knows all
[21:06] <mac_v> tedg: an other ugly effect of inhibiting lock screen... the screensaver does not release immediately  , i have to wait until the screen fades fully into the screensaver to release it, this is when auto login is selected , but when i un-select auto login things work fine
[21:07] <tedg> mac_v: I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.
[21:11] <kwwii> seb128, lool: new improved icons! seb128 there is an update to the humanity theme which fixes at least one known bug. lool, there is now a dark theme version for UNR
[21:12] <kwwii> seb128, lool: mac_v knows all the details :)
[21:14] <mac_v> ;)
[21:16] <mac_v> tedg: when auto-login is selected > in a few mins on idle , the gpm kicks in , slowly fading out desktop into the screensaver. during this fade if i move the pointer , the screensaver does *not* inhibit... but i have to wait until the screensaver has started working. now when i move the pointer the svreensaver inhibits...
[21:17] <mac_v> but when auto-login is not selected , i dont have this problem. even during the fade the screensaver inhibits
[21:17] <tedg> mac_v: I would have to say that is very unrelated to indicator-session :)
[21:17] <tedg> mac_v: That's probably a gnome-screensaver bug of some sort.
[21:18] <mac_v> tedg: it started happening only recently....maybe not due to indicator session... but i blame you ;p ... anything  to revert to the old behavior
[21:18] <tedg> heh
[21:22] <tedg> mac_v: bug 436724
[21:23] <mac_v> ah crap! , i was typing a huge letter ! pleading to revert it back
[21:23] <mac_v> a huge bug report*
[21:25] <ccheney> rickspencer3: ok i think this time i really have a firm date, we will be moving on thursday, barring any more stupidity ;-)
[21:25] <rickspencer3> ccheney, k
[21:25] <rickspencer3> ccheney, did you need me to do something wrt confirming employment or similar?
[21:25] <ccheney> rickspencer3: no they needed HR to do it and so i was able to get jane to call them
[21:25] <rickspencer3> k
[21:26]  * ccheney will file the day off once he has real confirmation from the moving company
[21:40] <seb128> didrocks, Laney, chrisccoulson: did one of you let gdm as it is in karmic and would like to test a command for me?
[21:40] <seb128> ie didn't try to tweak the background image
[21:41] <Laney> yes
[21:41] <didrocks> seb128: I can
[21:41] <seb128> sudo -u gdm gconftool --set /desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename --type string /usr/share/images/xsplash/bg_2560x1600.jpg
[21:41] <seb128> sudo -u gdm gconftool --set /desktop/gnome/interface/gtk-theme --type string HumanLogin
[21:41] <seb128> and open the gdm login screen
[21:41] <seb128> using the fusa applet "new session" for example
[21:41] <didrocks> hum, fusa crashed today for me
[21:41] <seb128> let me know if you have an image sort of matching the xsplash one
[21:41] <didrocks> upgrading first so
[21:42] <seb128> didrocks, you can use system, logout
[21:42] <seb128> the upstream dialog has a "switch user" too
[21:42] <didrocks> seb128: ok, I was thinking you explicitely needs me to use fusa
[21:42] <seb128> no, I was just giving a way to display the gdm screen
[21:42] <seb128> you can logout if you want too
[21:42] <seb128> ;-)
[21:42] <didrocks> never!!! ;)
[21:42] <chrisccoulson> yay! empathy crashed for me
[21:43] <chrisccoulson> and i accidentally erased the conversation history too ;)
[21:43] <Laney> I'm not even logged in
[21:43] <Laney> perfic'
[21:43] <chrisccoulson> what were those commands again?:)
[21:43] <seb128> sudo -u gdm gconftool --set /desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename --type string /usr/share/images/xsplash/bg_2560x1600.jpg
[21:43] <seb128>  sudo -u gdm gconftool --set /desktop/gnome/interface/gtk-theme --type string HumanLogin
[21:43] <Laney> seb128: looks different
[21:43] <Laney> ie like xsplash
[21:43] <seb128> chrisccoulson, waouh, using empathy to do IRC? I'm impressed
[21:43] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - bug 413116 is fixed upstream btw. want to wait for a 2.28.1 tarball, or include the patch before then?
[21:44] <didrocks> seb128: it works
[21:44] <Laney> I don't see how to change session type etc though
[21:44] <didrocks> seb128: like xsplash one
[21:44] <seb128> didrocks, Laney: thanks
[21:44] <seb128> that's the intent
[21:44] <seb128> rickspencer3, bratsche: ^
[21:44] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm using empathy now. i thought i should use the default client really
[21:44] <didrocks> great, it was quite odd to get the theme background :)
[21:44] <chrisccoulson> it's quite painful though ;)
[21:44] <Laney> how am I supposed to change session then?
[21:44] <seb128> chrisccoulson, we can wait for next tarball or after beta in any case
[21:44] <seb128> Laney, it should be displayed after selecting an user?
[21:45] <bratsche> seb128: We're not getting the gdm theme change itself though.. only the background.  The theme should be black or almost black.
[21:45] <Laney> oh eys
[21:45] <Laney> sorry
[21:45] <Laney> oh, just found a bug :)
[21:45] <seb128> oh?
[21:46] <Laney> Click the a11y icon, close it, enter doesn't switch to entering password
[21:46] <Laney> just does nothing
[21:46] <chrisccoulson> i got the nice pretty background now
[21:46] <Laney> someone confirm?
[21:46] <bratsche> seb128: Oh, that should be "gtk_theme" not "gtk-theme"
[21:47] <rickspencer3> Laney, you mean after doing that you can't type?
[21:47] <didrocks> Laney: I confirm this behavior, you have to cancel then and click again on your username
[21:47] <rickspencer3> I just tried it and that's what happened to me
[21:47]  * rickspencer3 same as didrocks 
[21:47] <Laney> yeah, that's right
[21:47] <Laney> I didn't try to type, just press enter to be able to type my password
[21:47] <Laney> and it looks even more different with gtk_theme ;)
[21:48] <chrisccoulson> heh, yeah, i get the black theme now as well
[21:48] <rickspencer3> wow, that is really black
[21:49] <Laney> has anyone not changed those settings and can repro the bug?
[21:49] <chrisccoulson> it's a little bit too much ;)
[21:49]  * Laney is reporting it
[21:50] <chrisccoulson> Laney - that's already reported somewhere i think
[21:50] <chrisccoulson> i've seen it either on LP or bugzilla
[21:51] <seb128> What is the different between Human and HumanLogin?
[21:51] <seb128> I don't see it ;-)
[21:51] <chrisccoulson> heh. i can't see either - it's like someone turned the lights out with HumanLogin
[21:51] <didrocks> seb128: where are the gdm user gconf key stored so? :)
[21:52] <chrisccoulson> Laney - bug 421214
[21:52] <seb128> didrocks, in the gdm user directory?
[21:52] <seb128> didrocks, /var/lib/gdm
[21:52] <chrisccoulson> is the same issue you're having
[21:52] <didrocks> seb128: next time, I'll have a look at /etc/passwd before asking you stupid questions :)
[21:53] <didrocks> seb128: didn't know that gdm user was having a home directory...
[21:53] <seb128> didrocks, were would you store the gconf config without that? ;-)
[21:53] <chrisccoulson> who's gdm? ;)
[21:53] <Laney> chrisccoulson: good shout
[21:53] <didrocks> seb128: that's why I was asking this myself :)
[21:54] <seb128> chrisccoulson, the friend would give you access to your user account ;-)
[21:54] <chrisccoulson> i don't know what i would do without him ;)
[21:56] <huats> seb128: I really like the way you have dealed with the gconf dependency for gucharmap :)
[21:57] <seb128> huats, ;-)
[22:03] <didrocks> well, enough for today, have a good evening/night everybody!
[22:05] <seb128> 'nigh didrocks
[22:15] <chrisccoulson> debugging gnome-keyring-daemon is a pain
[22:18] <ccheney> wow my new computer pulls 230w at the wall at full load
[22:19] <ccheney> a lot more efficient than my old system though it was ~ 150w but much slower
[22:28] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - if i terminate gnome-keyring-daemon manually, then it exits straight away
[22:28] <chrisccoulson> that's really helpful ;)
[22:28] <seb128> right
[22:28] <dobey> hrmm