[07:22] <EruditeHermit> hey
[08:44] <asac> hi
[09:44] <EruditeHermit> hi
[09:45] <asac> hi EruditeHermit
[09:45] <EruditeHermit> asac, hi
[09:46] <EruditeHermit> asac, you wouldn't happen to know if there is a ppa for gnash 0.8.6 would you?
[09:46] <EruditeHermit> can't find one by googling
[09:47] <asac> EruditeHermit: nope. usually gnash folks talked to me about release etc. they didnt this time so i didnt do it yet
[09:47] <EruditeHermit> ah
[09:47] <EruditeHermit> will it end up in karmic do you think?
[09:47] <EruditeHermit> or will it miss it
[09:47] <asac> pretty sure...yes
[09:47] <EruditeHermit> cool
[09:47] <EruditeHermit> have you played around with it at all?
[09:48] <asac> not yet ;)
[09:48] <asac> lp:~gnash/gnash/ubuntu
[09:49] <EruditeHermit> hmm
[09:49] <EruditeHermit> what does that mean?
[09:50] <asac> that it needs to be done there ;)
[09:50] <EruditeHermit> lp is launchpad?
[09:50] <asac> yes
[09:50] <EruditeHermit> ~gnash/gnash/ubuntu is a ppa?
[09:50] <asac> bzr branch lp:~gnash/gnash/ubuntu
[09:51] <EruditeHermit> ah, I have to read up on bazaar
[09:51] <EruditeHermit> well, nice to know
[09:52] <EruditeHermit> when do you think you'll get around to it?
[09:52] <asac> this week
[09:52] <EruditeHermit> cool
[09:52] <EruditeHermit> i'll check back friday or saturday I guess
[09:52] <EruditeHermit> thanks for the info and for packaging it
[09:53] <asac> sure
[09:53] <asac> np
[09:53] <asac> feel free to bug me in the middle for the week again
[09:56] <asac> jdstrand: for the cherry pick about not enabling upgraders aa
[09:56] <asac> jdstrand: is that version test accurate enough?
[09:57] <asac> if dpkg --compare-versions "$2" lt 3.5.2+nobinonly-0ubuntu3 || echo "$2" | egrep -q '(9.04|8.10|8.04)' ; then
[09:58] <asac> most users will have $2 = ""
[09:58] <asac> hmm
[09:58] <asac> thta seems to trigger the first dpkg
[10:09] <EruditeHermit> asac, ok i'll check in mid week
[10:09] <asac> tzhx
[10:09] <EruditeHermit> gnight for now
[10:09] <EruditeHermit> good day to you in europe
[11:35] <asac> kenvandine: uploaded bindwood
[11:35] <asac> kenvandine: please bug the RMs if you want to get that in
[11:40] <fta> asac, google complained about bug 262723 introducing a 200ms+ regression (chromium startup time) on hardy when gtk theme is enabled. could we fix that in hardy onward?
[11:41] <fta> see #9
[11:43] <asac> asking seb
[11:46] <asac> commented
[11:46] <asac> based on -desktop
[12:06] <fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/276601/
[12:16] <asac> well... on the other side its about 200ms ;)
[12:31] <jdstrand> asac: if $2 is "", then "" is less than 3.5.2+nobinonly-0ubuntu3, which will disable the profile (as intended)
[12:41] <asac> jdstrand: already uploaded ;)
[12:47] <fta> asac, because of that, they are not enabling the gtk themes by default
[12:48] <fta> asac, and 200ms is just the value i have on the top of my head, maybe it's worse, i need to check
[12:49] <asac> they said 200ms in the bug
[12:50] <asac> cyphermox: about the connman merge request
[12:50] <asac> cyphermox: i think we should not do the copy of scripts/connman to debian/...
[12:50] <asac> afaik we already install it to the right places, right?
[12:50] <asac> i think we should use --onlyscripts
[12:51] <asac> for dh_installinit ... maybe check if that works
[12:57] <mac_v> asac: lol , you removed the heart ;)
[12:58] <mac_v> nm is now not showing love :(
[13:03] <asac> hehe
[13:08] <cyphermox> asac: got it, but I could only start to look at that wednesday :/
[13:08] <cyphermox> I'll be on vacation starting wednesday, until then I have a new datacenter to bring up live ;)
[13:08] <asac> ok
[13:08] <asac> that should be soon enough
[13:11] <fta> asac, *sigh* that's just one more bug that makes them think we don't care about older distros, even LTS :P
[13:21] <dpm> asac: we've got a translation template for xulrunner not associated with any distro at https://translations.launchpad.net/xulrunner/1.9.1/+pots/xulrunner. What's that? Shall I disable it?
[14:18] <asac> dpm: yes. please delete
[14:19] <dpm> ok, done
[14:24] <asac> thx
[14:41] <mac_v> asac: hey , what icon do you think ad-hoc can express better?
[14:41] <mac_v> can be*
[14:42] <asac> mac_v: i didnt open the bug ;)
[14:42] <asac> i just said that its not useless
[14:42] <mac_v> yeah , i know but getting an idea from you ;)
[14:42] <asac> i think the current one is o.k (not better)
[14:42] <asac> it tries to tell users that this AP is not a normal AP, but form a computer
[14:42] <asac> problem is that noone will understand that
[14:42] <mac_v> the hi-color one was even worse , it was just a monitor :(
[14:43] <asac> so if there are ideas how to make something that scares users that would be good
[14:43] <asac> yeah i know
[14:43] <mac_v> a skull \o/
[14:43] <mac_v> ;p
[14:43] <asac> mac_v: i didnt actually refer to the human icon
[14:43] <asac> i meant: "its understood that the upstream icon isnt grewat" ;)
[14:43] <asac> mac_v: a hot potato ;)
[14:44] <mac_v> asac: i understood
[14:44] <asac> or a hot computer ;)
[14:44] <asac> "you might burn yourself"
[14:44] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[15:30] <mac_v> asac: lol! you wanted a tall tower for wwan and i used it and this happens ;) > http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32598429/ad-hoc.png
[15:31] <asac> i had the lock in mind ;)
[15:31] <asac> so yeah. seems thats an unfortunatey approach
[15:31] <mac_v> hm, so i have to do a differnt tower ;)
[15:32] <asac> mac_v: do you know the upstream one?
[15:32] <asac> i like it ;)
[15:32] <mac_v> what upstream one?
[15:32] <asac> doing something similar using the greyscale approach should be possible
[15:32] <asac> mac_v: the hicolor
[15:33] <asac> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/22x22/apps/nm-device-wwan.png
[15:33] <mac_v> oh , like that , but you said that the wwan will also get the signal indicators soon ,
[15:33] <asac> yes. there are signal rings
[15:33] <mac_v> so in anticipation i did this ;)
[15:33] <asac> kiwii did something for that
[15:33] <asac> let me check what he sent me a few days ago
[15:34] <asac> http://people.canonical.com/~asac/tmp/NetworkManagerIcons.tar.gz
[15:34] <asac> mac_v: ^^
[15:34] <asac> there is signal strength ... and also technology (letters) overlays
[15:35] <asac> like U (umts), E (edge), H, G
[15:35] <mac_v> asac: nice , i get forbidden ;p
[15:35] <mac_v> that link is only for canonical folks
[15:35] <asac> really?
[15:36] <asac> nah
[15:36] <asac> normally it just works
[15:36] <asac> one sec
[15:36] <asac> try agin
[15:36] <asac> mac_v: ^^
[15:36] <asac> so the green ones are signal strength 100, 75, 50, 25 and the orange/red one is 00
[15:36] <mac_v> yeah ,works now :)
[15:39] <mac_v> hmm, that would not work when an overlay icon is used for greyscale icons :( , the H G E stuff is not a problem
[15:39] <mac_v> asac: hm...  i could have the signals only on one side ;)
[15:40] <mac_v> so then the overlay lock wont cover it
[15:42] <mac_v> asac: so how are the labels for the wwan supposed  , for the signal strengths... or you still have to discuss it ;)
[15:42] <asac> still have to discuss
[15:42] <mac_v> :)
[15:42] <asac> i would think its nm-device-wwan-signal-100 etc.
[15:42] <asac> like you suggested
[15:44] <ejat> asac: previously my broadband work .. but a few day lately it wont work :(
[15:44] <ejat> huawei e106e
[15:44]  * ejat now in wvdial mode :(
[15:45] <asac> ejat: did it break right after karmic upgrade or just a few days ago=?
[15:46] <ejat> a few day ..
[15:46] <ejat> previously it work fine ..
[15:46] <asac> ejat: try to downgrade modem-manager please
[15:46] <asac> to version before
[15:47] <ejat> but .. ive try my dad huawei .. it seems work .. so now i didnt know how to differentiate/trace :(
[15:48] <ejat> and sometimes .. if i execute : lsusb
[15:48] <ejat> its hang ..
[15:48] <ejat> after plugging the modem usb stick
[15:49] <ejat> is there any daily build after 20090923 ?
[15:52] <[reed]> asac: http://twitter.com/asacasa/status/4439008841 -- I read that as "fart too much"
[15:53] <ejat> i saw at lp build 20090926
[15:54] <ejat> build fail :)
[15:57] <asac> haha
[16:26] <asac> bdmurray: hola. can you add my bugmail account "asacbug" to bugcontrol ... seems my catch all account doesnt catch all the crashes (yet)
[16:27] <asac> bdmurray: actually i changed my mind ;) ... dont add me there ;)
[16:29] <asac> jdstrand: would you mind to process network-manger-openconnect on your next archive day? i got a FFe from motu-release, but seems no archive admin ever processed it
[16:29] <asac> its the same packaging as all the other vpn plugins
[16:30] <jdstrand> asac: I've made a note of it. my next day is Friday though
[16:33] <asac> thx
[16:33] <asac> thats good
[17:47] <eagles0513875> hey asac
[17:48] <eagles0513875> av`: pmed me wiht a new channel is that where we taking the discussion now asac
[18:00] <asac> yeah. i wont go in that channel ;)
[18:00] <asac> i already told him long ago ;)
[18:02] <eagles0513875> whats that for any way
[18:27] <eagles0513875> asac: ill stay where ever u r lol
[18:34] <asac> eagles0513875: feel free to go there. might even be helpful. its just that i cannot be in more channels ;)
[18:35] <eagles0513875> i cant either to be honest im already in alot of channels and majority being ubuntu or kubuntu related
[18:53] <ejat> asac: what is the diff between normal package n -nmt* ?
[18:53] <ejat> for network-manager-gnome?
[18:55] <ejat> trying to downgrade it ..
[19:08] <av`> eagles0513875, asac can't coz he can't add new channels on startup I guess
[19:09] <av`> eagles0513875, sad to hear stuff like: "i cant either to be honest im already in alot of channels and majority being ubuntu or kubuntu related"
[19:10] <av`> do whatever you like ;)
[19:27] <asac> jdstrand:  Sep 26 16:56:03 ubuntu NetworkManager: <info>  Activation (eth0) Stage 4 of 5 (IP6 Configure Get) started...
[19:27] <asac>  Sep 26 16:56:03 ubuntu NetworkManager: <info>  Activation (eth0) Stage 4 of 5 (IP6 Configure Get) complete.
[19:27] <asac>  Sep 26 16:56:03 ubuntu kernel: [   58.945323] ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): eth0: link is not ready
[19:27] <asac>  Sep 26 16:56:03 ubuntu kernel: [   58.945442] ADDRCONF(NETDEV_CHANGE): eth0: link becomes ready
[19:27] <asac>  Sep 26 16:56:03 ubuntu kernel: [   59.429977] type=1503 audit(1253984163.451:11): operation="open" pid=1829 parent=1663 profile="/sbin/dhclient3" requested_mask="r::" denied_mask="r::" fsuid=0 ouid=0 name="/rofs/etc/ld.so.cache"
[19:27] <asac>  Sep 26 16:56:14 ubuntu kernel: [   59.430013] type=1503 audit(1253984163.451:12): operation="open" pid=1829 parent=1663 profile="/sbin/dhclient3" requested_mask="r::" denied_mask="r::" fsuid=0 ouid=0 name="/rofs/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc-2.10.1.so"
[19:27] <asac>  Sep 26 16:56:14 ubuntu kernel: [   59.430718] type=1503 audit(1253984163.451:13): operation="open" pid=1829 parent=1663 profile="/sbin/dhclient3" requested_mask="r::" denied_mask="r::" fsuid=0 ouid=0 name="/rofs/lib/libc-2.10.1.so"
[19:27] <asac>  Sep 26 16:56:14 ubuntu kernel: [   60.053562] Adding 3911788k swap on /dev/sdb6.  Priority:-1 extents:1 across:3911788k
[19:28] <asac> isnt that fixed in apparmor?
[19:28] <asac> err in dhclient apparmor policy
[19:28] <asac> eagles0513875: ~nmt is daily
[19:30] <jdstrand> asac: apparmor shouldn't be enabled in the installer, cause the paths are all wrong
[19:30] <jdstrand> asac: that is fallout from apparmor moving to initramfs, and kees should have uploaded a fix for it
[19:30] <jdstrand> asac: I'm not sure of the status of that fix wrt current CD images. you might ask him
[19:31] <asac> err. so atm you cannot get dhcp network working?
[19:31] <asac> will that be fixed for beta
[19:31] <asac> or can i stop my life instantly?
[19:31] <jdstrand> asac: I thought it was fixed. you might want to ask kees in #ubuntu-devel if it isn't fixed for you now
[19:31] <asac> jdstrand: what was the bug?
[19:32] <jdstrand> apparmor (2.3.1+1403-0ubuntu22) karmic; urgency=low
[19:32] <jdstrand> * Do not run AppArmor on the LiveCD, again (LP: #131976).
[19:32] <asac> jdstrand: so what are users that installed like this supposed to do?
[19:32] <jdstrand> asac: what version of apparmor do you have in your cd image?
[19:32] <asac> remove everything from /etc/apparmor/... ?
[19:33] <jdstrand> asac: sudo /etc/init.d/apparmor stop
[19:33] <asac> jdstrand: but thats just temporary
[19:33] <asac> isnt it?
[19:33] <jdstrand> asac: it isn't a problem after reboot.
[19:33] <asac> or are you saying its only on livecd?
[19:33] <asac> not on install?
[19:33] <jdstrand> /rofs/lib/libc-2.10.1.so
[19:33] <jdstrand> that is a live cd install path ^
[19:33] <jdstrand> */rofs/*
[19:34] <asac> kk
[19:43] <asac> bug 417719
[19:56] <asac> mac_v: have a link to the new icon?
[19:56] <mac_v> asac: just a sec
[19:56] <asac> thx
[19:57] <mac_v> asac: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/nm-adhoc.svg
[19:59] <mac_v> i was talking to mat , and he says that icon can be a separate icon too :( , and not use the device icon , but instead an icon which signifies a security warning
[19:59] <asac> i like that adhoc thing
[20:00] <asac> i will check with upstream what to do in general
[20:00] <asac> its not purely security
[20:00] <asac> partly
[20:00] <asac> and partly its that its really special
[20:00] <mac_v> i agree , but have the device icon doesnt signify anything to the user
[20:00] <mac_v> having*
[20:01] <asac> as you the one you made is ok
[20:01] <asac> attention ... signal is from computer ;)
[20:01] <mac_v> :)
[20:01] <asac> hmm
[20:01] <asac> maybe even a head or something
[20:01] <asac> so you see its something run by individuals
[20:01] <asac> though there are also printers with adhoc networks etc.
[20:02] <mac_v> asac: like this >  http://www.iconfinder.net/icondetails/15216/128/?q=thief
[20:02] <asac> heh
[20:02] <asac> no. i meant more a small head behind the monitor
[20:02] <asac> so you see that thing is owned by a person (in most cases)
[20:02] <asac> but the thief is nice too ;)
[20:02] <mac_v> oh....but either way the device icon used there is a problem
[20:03] <asac> well. thats the other bug ;)
[20:03] <asac> if that icon is used for status at least
[20:03]  * mac_v feels nm is too buggy.  ;p 
[20:03] <mac_v> atleast regarding icons ;)
[20:04] <asac> welll. its really about minimizing duplication i am sure
[20:04] <asac> similar to gnome-bluetooth
[20:04] <asac> noone would think about using differnt icons for differnt locations
[20:04] <mac_v> if its using the *notification* area , it needs to be a different label...
[20:05] <mac_v> rather than just an icon of the app
[20:05] <mac_v> it should notify something
[20:05] <asac> who says that?
[20:05] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[20:05] <mac_v> asac: what is the use of just having the app icon displayed?
[20:06] <asac> if it matches what you want to display thats natural
[20:06] <asac> and noone complained in the past - so doesnt feel that odd ;)
[20:06] <mac_v> no cared for UI , thats the main issue
[20:06] <mac_v> devs just did what they felt ;)
[20:07] <mac_v> asac: like for the ad-hoc... why is the icon needed there? if it convey useful information
[20:08] <asac> you cannot educate users about any details
[20:08] <asac> only thing you can tell them is that its special
[20:08] <asac> and then provide doc somewhere etc.
[20:08] <asac> in some cases it shouldnt be needed
[20:08] <asac> actually in most cases
[20:08] <asac> but there are things where you need users to know about something
[20:09] <mac_v> i agree , you cannot educate , but if the goal of displaying the ad-hoc in the menu was to say , oh be a little wary of this... then just displaying the ad-hoc icon is not signifying it to the user
[20:09] <asac> as i said. there are various aspects why its special
[20:09] <asac> security risk is one of them
[20:09] <mac_v> yup
[20:10] <asac> what it tells you is: this is a net provided by device
[20:10] <asac> and nothing you usually want to connect to
[20:10] <mac_v> thats the problem... but not all users know what the device icon is
[20:10] <mac_v> like the ethernet icon in human
[20:11] <asac> no. but there is no solution. you can only provide hints ;)
[20:11] <asac> you cannot write "Ad-Hoc" ... nobody wil understand that
[20:11] <asac> so for users that have no clue you display a meaningless icon
[20:12] <mac_v> but you can add the symbol signifying "open network + security risk"
[20:12] <asac> those users will be totally confused anyway by anything and will not care
[20:12] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[20:12] <asac> then you have users that know what that means and those need a tooltip or something
[20:12] <mac_v> yeah... but the thief icon is easily recognizable , right ;)
[20:12] <mac_v> not saying to use it
[20:12] <asac> i think for the user the most important message is: "this network will not bring you to internet if you dont know that"
[20:13] <mac_v> but just that we can come up with better metaphors
[20:13] <asac> and the other message is: "this is a ad-hoc network"
[20:13] <asac> so maybe it needs two icons
[20:13] <mac_v> humm,,, that maybe better
[20:14] <asac> i think it should be something that signals "this is a dead end and something personal"
[20:14] <mac_v> BTW is the favorite icon coming back ? :)
[20:14] <asac> no
[20:14] <mac_v> great :)
[20:14] <asac> i dont see it coming at least in karmic
[20:15] <mac_v> as mysteriously as it came it went away ;p
[20:15] <asac> thats if you work with upstreams.
[20:15] <asac> its a great achievement that we got what we got ;)
[20:15] <mac_v> ;)
[20:15] <asac> nm guy is a fedora/redhat guy
[20:16] <asac> so he couldnt care less ;)
[20:16] <mac_v> what happened to the conman?
[20:16] <asac> typo ;)
[20:16] <mac_v> lol
[20:16] <asac> it was a conjob ;)
[20:17] <asac> well. it was massively pushed
[20:17] <asac> but feature wise its still behind
[20:17] <asac> and there is no gnome applet atm
[20:17] <asac> only mutter
[20:17] <asac> carrick
[20:18] <mac_v> hmm.. way dont doesnt canonical fork it ?
[20:18] <asac> fork what?
[20:18] <mac_v> why doesnt canonical fork it ?
[20:18] <mac_v> nm
[20:18] <asac> fork what ;)
[20:18] <asac> nm?
[20:18] <mac_v> yeah
[20:18] <asac> imo that would be the wrong approach
[20:19] <mac_v> hehe ;) but when they dont listen... ;p
[20:19] <asac> you can fork and be alone
[20:19] <asac> or fork and regularly merge
[20:19] <asac> listen to what?
[20:19] <mac_v> fork and regular merge will be nice...
[20:19] <asac> its healthy to have discussions
[20:19] <asac> the NM guy is quite a machine. would be stupid
[20:19] <mac_v>  <asac> nm guy is a fedora/redhat guy  <asac> so he couldnt care less ;)
[20:20] <asac> you cannot merge regularly
[20:20] <asac> he cares
[20:20] <asac> but only because of hard work in the past
[20:20] <mac_v> oh... ok..
[20:20] <asac> also ubuntu never really contributed
[20:20] <asac> directly
[20:20] <mac_v> i thought he doesnt listen
[20:21] <asac> he listens
[20:21] <asac> but he often has a different approach
[20:21] <asac> you cannot demand something
[20:21] <mac_v> yeah
[20:23] <mac_v> oh , i still havent check the icons used by firefox! , remember i told you i'd give you a list
[20:24] <mac_v> i should make that list , once stuff clears out a bit
[20:24] <mac_v> with humanity
[20:32] <asac> yeah
[20:32] <asac> that would be good
[21:27] <fta> kenvandine, is there a workaround for gwibber unreadable with dark themes?
[22:12] <av`> asac, if you don't want another channel I can connect the commit bot here
[22:12] <av`> what do you think?
[22:22] <kenvandine> fta, not yet... it is just that gwibber theme
[22:22] <kenvandine> the work around would be to use default or compact
[22:22] <kenvandine> not gilouche
[22:37] <fta> kenvandine, i just see gilouche in the list
[22:37] <kenvandine> you should have 3
[22:39] <fta> hm, gwibber just froze
[22:39] <BUGabundo> usuall
[22:39] <BUGabundo> I'm still on 1.2
[22:39] <fta> is it supposed to do that after an upgrade?
[22:40] <fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/280738/
[22:40] <fta> kenvandine, ^^, and I still have 1 theme after a restart :(