[00:17] <claydoh> ScottK: any particular tidbits to change/add to the release notes?
[00:18] <claydoh> I'll update the netbook section, update the screenshot
[00:54] <ScottK> Thanks.
[00:54] <ScottK> Urgh.  Gone.
[00:57] <neversfelde> mhh, I never got in touch with cdbs simple patchsys before. Is it enough to do a cdbs-edit-patch <patchname> to add a new patch? Build log says, that the new patch succeeded.
[01:00] <seele> hmm.. did i get pinged?
[01:00] <seele> oh, seele_ did
[01:05] <ScottK> neversfelde: That's all it takes.  You can add <oldpatch> after that if you want to apply it after another existing patch.
[01:08] <neversfelde> I am trying to port a patch from quilt ot simple-patchsys. idid not work and a second try causes FTBS. I guess I should have a sleep and look at it tomotrrow a second time :). Thanks ScottK for your help.
[01:28] <nixternal> talk about a brainfart, I sat here staring at the d-i trying to remember how to install sid :)
[01:34]  * neversfelde switched to ubuntu, even for server
[01:34] <neversfelde> and is still not sleeping^^
[02:38] <ScottK> Relevant for the k3b discussion: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2009/09/why-distributions-shouldnt-ship-development-versions/#comment-5991
[03:23] <usr> Hello
[03:23] <usr> About Alpha software and Kubuntu 9.10...
[03:24] <usr> - About Kaffeine for KDE 4: I don't test it, but SMPlayer is a good
[03:24] <usr> alternative at now (better than VLC, in my opinion). As VLC, it doesn't have
[03:24] <usr> the best integration with KDE, but it has the same integration as the
[03:24] <usr> calculator application that is included in Kubuntu: SpeedCrunch.
[03:24] <usr> Other option is offer the stable version of Kaffeine (KDE 3 version),
[03:24] <usr> because Dragon Player is too simple (moreover, also sometimes it has
[03:24] <usr> difficulty walking and backward through the videos, but SMPlayer works
[03:24] <usr> seamlessly with any video (and Kaffeine for KDE 3 also, of course).
[03:24] <usr> - About K3b for KDE 4: It isn't ready. Please use KDE 3 version. The diary
[03:24] <usr> use must be the primordial reason for any O.S. and K3b for KDE 4 isn't a
[03:24] <usr> diary use application.
[03:24] <usr> - About SpeedCrunch: KCal has a better integration with KDE, SpedCrunch is
[03:24] <usr> "Qt only", so, like another user says, I also prefer KCalc.
[03:24] <usr> ...another option is to use Brasero (the GTK+ libraries are already in the CD
[03:24] <usr> for OO.org) instead of K3b (leaving K3b-kde3 in the repositories, of
[03:24] <usr> course); to avoid overloading the CD with KDE 3 libraries.
[03:25] <usr> For the future (and present): In the stable versions of the distro, use always stable versions of the applications. Let the other versions to the beta testers, not for end users who just want to use the computer.
[03:25] <usr> Thanks for listening.
[03:35] <JontheEchidna> ...diary use application?
[03:39] <JontheEchidna> whoa, openoffice does drag gtk on to the CD
[03:39] <JontheEchidna> via openoffice.org-core
[03:51] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: hrmm, that is interesting then
[03:52] <nixternal> usr's idea about brasero might be an option since they are already there
[03:52] <nixternal> that's sad about k3b though, as it used to be one of the top apps for everyone, no matter their DE people were using it big time
[03:56] <JontheEchidna> brasero'd bring in a buncha gnome stuff even if libgtk is already installed
[03:59] <yuriy> well, if we have to have gtk, i think nm-applet would be nice. but I think something is broken if OO is pulling it in.
[04:00] <JontheEchidna> ^that would also bring in a lot of gnome stuff :(
[04:00] <JontheEchidna> 2.3 MB archive files which are 24 MB installed. Dunno which figure matters most for the isos
[04:02] <ScottK> Gnome != Gtk
[04:03] <ScottK> Is k3b so bad as it is?
[04:03] <JontheEchidna> not that I've seen, actually
[04:03] <ScottK> If Mandriva is shipping it and that's where the upstream works, that's a decent sign.
[04:04] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: you sure, without recommends?
[04:04] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: recommends get pulled onto the CDs
[04:04] <ScottK> Yep
[04:04] <yuriy> oh it does depend on keyring anyways. nvm.
[04:05] <JontheEchidna> upstream does call it alpha, despite what markus says: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/K3b?content=9875
[04:05] <ScottK> yuriy: The new knm is working pretty well for me.
[04:05] <yuriy> ScottK: does it list wireless networks in the menu?
[04:07] <yuriy> bug 433460
[04:08] <ScottK> Let me go look (not at that box)
[04:08] <yuriy> knm seems to occasionally work, but the interface always feels like it doesn't do anything (clicking things in the menu, other than manage connections)
[04:10] <yuriy> as for kaffeine, if it's not stable (which is a shame, i'd like to have it in) I think we should stick to dragonplayer
[04:12] <ScottK> I didn't have any problems with it, but I didn't use it a lot either.
[04:13] <yuriy> I use it regularly and basically it works. occasionally it would be nice to have a playlist and it does have some trouble seeking.
[04:14] <ScottK> Which is "it"?
[04:14] <claydoh> kaffeine gets my vote, dragon can't ff/rewind well
[04:15] <JontheEchidna> Of the few crashes that ever were reported against dragon player, I don't believe there were ever any duplicates. This one for Kaffeine has 3 (bug 422183)
[04:15] <ScottK> claydoh: I need to add some words on "this is just a tech preview, full KDE Netbook in KDE 4.4" in the netbook section.
[04:16] <ScottK> yuriy: The KNM thing is a design change.  You click on connect to another network to get the list.
[04:16] <ScottK> I'll write in the bug.
[04:16] <claydoh> ScottK: yes, I think I will also get or borrow a newer screenshot
[04:16] <claydoh> ScottK: looks nice
[04:16] <JontheEchidna> The on in ScottK/s blog looks nice
[04:16] <ScottK> claydoh: See my last post on planet for a current one.
[04:16] <yuriy> ScottK: yes i discovered that today. after not noticing it for weeks. major usability issue IMO
[04:17] <claydoh> ScottK: :)
[04:17] <yuriy> ScottK: I expected "connect to other network" to be for hidden ssids
[04:18] <ScottK> yuriy: Then you expect wrong ....
[04:23] <JontheEchidna> Having gtk means that we can make gtk2-engines-qtcurve depend on {shlib:Depends} again
[04:24] <JontheEchidna> and then sync, once debian updates
[04:25] <JontheEchidna> then we won't have to worry about uploading a new qtcurve every week all through the first half of the dev cycle
[04:26] <yuriy> ScottK: the applet is there on a laptop so you can connect to the network, whereever you are.  Available networks should be right there.  If you have to go through some dialogs to even see the network it's done wrong, and the applet is almost useless.  I find any interface that forces you to "set up" a network, other than as part of the connection process after you click on it (i.e. encryption key)
[04:26] <yuriy> Windows Vista is the worst at this, btw, but KDE4 versions of KNM have been pretty bad as well
[04:27] <yuriy> however, if it'll actually see and connect to encrypted networks, i'm happy with it for now
[04:27] <ScottK> yuriy: I agree, but "I don't agree with the design" is a different kind of issue than "incomplete crap that crashes all the time".
[04:28] <ScottK> yuriy: I'm connected using it through wpa right now.
[04:28] <yuriy> ScottK: didn't say crashes, I said "major usability problem"
[04:30] <yuriy> ScottK: oh and "it" above was dragonplayer
[04:30] <ScottK> Right, OK.
[04:31] <ScottK> I'd say we used Dragon player so far in Intrepid/Jaunty and so we ought to stick with it until we have a solid reason to move.
[04:31] <ScottK> Kaffeine being "back" would be a good reason, but it seems they didn't quite get there.
[04:31] <ScottK> People will bitch either way, so we just need to make our best decision.
[04:31] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: BTW, thanks for bringing this up.  It's a good discussion to have.
[04:32] <ScottK> In the meantime, bluetooth is still FUBAR on KDE.
[04:32] <JontheEchidna> It looks like it needed discussed, too. I was surprised how fast people were responding
[04:35]  * yuriy wonders what bluetooth is supposed to do that's been so FUBAR, considering his mouse has been working the whole time except for a couple weeks of Intrepid
[04:36] <ScottK> yuriy: Well that's something.  We may get file transfer back after beta.
[04:43] <yuriy> hmm I think i'm going to try to go to half of UDS. what do you think, first 3 days or last 3?
[04:49] <ScottK> First 3.
[04:50] <yuriy> I think most of the discussion was packed into the first 3 days last time
[04:51] <yuriy> so that does seem like a good choice
[05:15] <yuriy> ok I *think* I applied. FF is stuck in some crazy loop between lp and summit.ubuntu.com
[05:17] <ScottK> yuriy: That's normal.  Just ping jcastro and ask him to check.
[05:17] <ScottK> "normal" as in it's a known bug
[05:28] <rgreening_> yeah, there was an oauth bug
[05:28] <rgreening_> I had the same issue yuriy
[05:29] <rgreening_> ScottK: yeah, definately Dragon Player for now. I think it's important we cut back on the "appearance" of Kubuntu being Alpha quality..
[05:30] <rgreening_> I've been updating https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuLucidSpecs getting it ready...
[05:31] <rgreening_> I'd like to be more prepared for UDS this time around. Last time we were all last minute with specs and hence lots of scheduling overlap
[05:32] <yuriy> rgreening_: I think we need an artwork spec
[05:33] <rgreening_> yuriy: go for it :)
[05:34] <rgreening_> make a blueprint, and make kubuntu-members the assignee so we can edit/update it
[05:35] <rgreening_> yuriy: then add the blueprint to https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuLucidSpecs
[05:35] <rgreening_> dont forget to set the sprint to UDS-L
[05:36] <rgreening_> and add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-L/Discussions also
[05:36] <rgreening_> :)
[05:39] <ScottK> rgreening_: Please add something about review all our patches and get them upstreamed, drop them, or have a very good reason why.
[05:48] <rgreening_> ScottK: I added a note to the packaging placeholder so I remember to add it to the spec when we write it.
[06:13] <Quintasan> Riddell: lol, dunno if they can do that but if we don't provide dooble with the modules mentioned in dooble.cc then it's not under GPL-2
[06:44] <jussi01> mornign all
[06:55] <nixternal> morning jussi01
[06:59] <jussi01> gday nixternal
[07:00]  * jussi01 wonders if theres any more info he can add to his bug to make it easier to fix... anyone want to look at bug 438556 ?
[07:02] <nixternal> is it a loud tick?
[07:06] <jussi01> nixternal: about mid volume I guess, certainly not I have to listen carefully to hear it, but quite pronounced.
[07:08] <nixternal> i get a very faint knocking sound that I hear on my desktop from time-to-time...sounds like a series of quiet pops
[07:09] <jussi01> nixternal: hrm, min is a sort of pop.
[07:09] <jussi01> mine
[07:10] <jussi01> same as when you plug a mike in or touch a speaker wire
[07:11] <nixternal> ya, don't think that is phonon honestly, as it happens on my gnome desktop as well... dtchen told me what it was once-upon-a-time
[07:12] <nixternal> that is the same type of noice I am hearing, but it isn't all that loud...usually it happens when I am doing nothing with the desktop, or at least that is when I notice it
[07:13] <jussi01> nixternal: hrm, right. well whatever it is it needs fixing... maybe I need to bug dtchen and find out what it is
[07:13] <nixternal> hehe, no doubt
[07:13] <nixternal> it has been around, at least for me, jaunty and karmic
[07:13] <jussi01> nixternal: this happens when a sound is about to be played. like when the interface is opened.
[07:13] <nixternal> can't remember before then
[07:13] <jussi01> mine only came on karmic upgrade
[07:15] <nixternal> hrmm, might be something different then
[07:15] <jussi01> perhaps. either way, a dtchen opinion would come in handy here.
[07:16] <jussi01> nixternal: curiousity, are you using same HW as me?
[07:16] <nixternal> all intel for me
[07:17] <nixternal> why can't arora tab complete urls like every other browser? it is so damn annoying
[07:17] <nixternal> otherwise I like using the browser, but that one little thing annoys me
[07:55] <nixternal> why does the power want to go out at almost 02:00? silly chicago
[07:55] <nixternal> g'nite all, see ya in a few hours
[08:05] <jussi01> nini nixternal
[09:26] <ach> Riddell: my wireless problem: 'normal' wpa/psk works, but a wpa/psk, where a cisco AP decides due to MAC address to which VLAN a device belongs it does not work.   I've stopped knetworkmanger, started nm-applet and I was connected immediately.   As soon as I have time I'll try a fresh user setup with knetworkmanager ...
[09:35]  * neversfelde thinks about difficult questions for Riddell :)
[09:40] <davmor2> neversfelde: that easy that is, what is the question to the answer of deep thoughts  answer to life the universe and everything :)
[09:41] <neversfelde> hehe
[10:30] <agateau> ScottK: ScottK-desktop: the lack of indicator config ui in Quassel is probably due to the package lacking a build dependency on libindicate-qt-dev
[10:31] <Riddell> ach: ug, sounds complex
[10:32] <Riddell> ach: probably best to ask wstephenson
[10:32] <ach> Riddell: it's same IP everywhere in the Institut
[10:33] <ach> Riddell: ok, I'll try with fresh user first, then with Will
[11:28] <ScottK> agateau: OK.  We should have another rc tomorrow, I'll add that then.
[11:28] <agateau> ScottK: ok
[11:29] <ScottK> Riddell: I thought at the last meeting we decided not to enable the indicator stuff by default in KDE apps, but I found it enabled in Kmail after upgrade?
[11:57] <neversfelde> I am afraid, that the rename normalize to normalize-audio patch for k3b from debian is not working, neither for debian nor for karmic
[11:57] <neversfelde> probably a problam with k3b itself, because it does not help to set the path manually, too
[12:00] <neversfelde> that's really not good, because you cannot burn a proper audio cd with karmic
[13:09] <Riddell> neversfelde: I thought I'd made audio CDs in k3b in karmic
[13:10] <neversfelde> Riddell: yes, it works, but without normalizing the volume of the tracks
[13:10] <Riddell> ScottK: I said at the time I thought it a silly cludge of a setup
[13:11] <Riddell> man every time kdebase-workspace compiles I get 100 e-mails from rosetta
[13:13] <neversfelde> hehe, these mails are really annoying
[13:15] <Riddell> maybe rosetta could get a message indicator plugin instead :)
[13:20] <ScottK> Riddell: I know you didn't agree with it, but it's what the community decided.
[13:22] <Quintasan> hiho
[13:24] <ghostcube> hullu :)
[13:42] <dpm> Riddell: I read random comments about problems with translations yesterday in here. I couldn't test them yesterday, since my Kubuntu install got somehow broken after some updates. What's their status?
[13:42] <dpm> and hi, btw :)
[13:44] <neversfelde> hi dpm
[13:44] <dpm> hey neversfelde
[13:44] <neversfelde> I have mixture of german and english here after the last upgrade of langauge packs, but I cannot reproduce it with another computer
[13:45] <neversfelde> another user has confirmed, that there are problems
[13:47] <dpm> neversfelde: in which programs do you have a mixture?
[13:49] <neversfelde> dpm: all KDE applications are english and sometimes german, firefox and Quassel are german
[13:50] <ScottK> Quassel doesn't use language packs except for a very few places.
[13:50] <neversfelde> dolphin is german, systemsettings is english
[13:51] <neversfelde> and the computer without problems is a fresh install
[13:53] <ScottK> And the one with problems was upgraded from Jaunty?
[13:55] <neversfelde> ScottK: it has grub2, so I think I installed karmic here, but that is a few month ago
[13:55] <hunger> karmic works well for me. All mayor things work, even though my setup is a bit off the norm:-)
[13:56] <ScottK> neversfelde: What happens if you purge and reinstall kdebase-workspace?
[13:57] <hunger> The kdm screen sucks at 1024x600 pixels, since it has black bars on both sides, that is the only annoyance I ran into.
[13:59] <neversfelde> I'll try it
[14:12] <rgreening> What are we doing about the broken kpackagekit?
[14:12] <ScottK> neversfelde: I told you wrong, you need to purge/reinstall systemsettings
[14:12] <ScottK> rgreening: What options do we have?
[14:17] <rgreening> fixing it
[14:18] <neversfelde> ScottK: too late, I purged kdebase-workspace*, let's see if it helps :)
[14:18] <rgreening> who knows the most about kpackagekit?
[14:18] <ScottK> OK
[14:18] <ScottK> rgreening: What's to know.  It's broken by design for Debian packages and is unlikely to ever work well.
[14:19] <rgreening> thats helpful... and totally not what I asked!
[14:19] <rgreening> geez
[14:20]  * rgreening wonders why I bother to try
[14:21] <Riddell> dpm: seems mostly fine on a new install, some kcontrol modules don't have translations is the only thing I can see.  neversfelde said upgrades have issues and I plan to test that today
[14:21] <ScottK> rgreening: I have no idea what particular aspect of it's brokenness is bothering you at the moment.
[14:22] <dpm> sounds good, thanks for the info Riddell and neversfelde
[14:22] <hunger> What do I need to do to reset kdm to its defaults? Remove ~root/.kde or will that break something?
[14:22] <neversfelde> ScottK: there is no difference after purging the packages, still a mixture. Systemsettings is english, too.
[14:23] <hunger> kdm does not come up again after logging out if using non-standard settings.
[14:23] <Riddell> these DVDs take ages to install
[14:23] <ScottK> neversfelde: OK.  The we need to work better to understand it.
[14:25] <Riddell> hunger: that's a problem no matter what settings you have
[14:25] <Riddell> it's a priority issue although I'm not sure where to start looking at it
[14:27] <hunger> It had not noticed with the default screen... but maybe I was just not logging out for a while:-)
[14:27] <ScottK> Speaking of systemsettings, why is it in the section "Settings"?  i thought we were trying to get rid of that one.
[14:27]  * hunger keeps looking for it under "System".
[14:28] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^^ Do you know which is correct?
[14:29] <Riddell> ScottK: I seem to mind we thought having it in three places in kickoff was overkill
[14:29] <Riddell> dunno if it can be removed without it also disappearing from krunner
[14:29] <Nightrose> neversfelde: "after the release" meaning after beta release?
[14:29] <ScottK> It shows up under systems on netbook for some reason.
[14:29] <neversfelde> Nightrose: yes, I think so
[14:29] <ScottK> y
[14:30] <ScottK> y
[14:30] <Nightrose> ok can someone make sure?
[14:30] <neversfelde> Riddell: amarok 2.2 will go in after beta release?
[14:30] <hunger> Could someone please update /usr/share/kde4/apps/kdm/themes/oxygen-air/oxygen-air.xml to set the width of the background to 100% instead of scaled? THat makes the black bars go away on a netbook.
[14:30] <Riddell> neversfelde: yep
[14:30] <Nightrose> k thx
[14:30] <neversfelde> Nightrose: :)
[14:30] <neversfelde> hunger: I can confirm this and for oxygen kdm it is ok, only oxygen-air has that problem
[14:31] <hunger> neversfelde: THe black bars issue?
[14:31] <neversfelde> hunger: yes
[14:31] <Riddell> hunger: do you know if that has been fixed upstream? or if they are aware?
[14:31] <Riddell> hi dendrobates, nice to have you hanging around the channel
[14:31] <hunger> Riddell: No idea. That is what I did to deuglyfy kdm :-)
[14:32] <dendrobates> Riddell: thanks.
[14:32] <hunger> Riddell: The image is scaled everywhere else but in kdm. Even in the image that pops up just before/during kdm starts.
[14:33]  * ScottK has seen this too
[14:34] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: ossi coded a new aspect ratio for kdm that takes care of the problem. But that was for trunk
[14:35] <JontheEchidna> the 100% workaround fixes the garbage on either side of the kdm theme for widescreens, but stretches it for normal screens
[14:35] <JontheEchidna> the thought being that a little stretching looks better than garbage
[14:35] <ScottK> Sounds reasonable.
[14:35] <JontheEchidna> anyway, ossi said that the aspect ratio might be backported after testing, but I don't think anything has happened
[14:36] <hunger> JontheEchidna: The image is displayed stratched like that 1) before kdm actually shows its ui, 2) during kde startup, 3) on the default desktop.
[14:36] <ScottK> Anyone tried network manager 0.8~a~git.20090923t064445.b20cef2-0ubuntu2 yet?
[14:36] <hunger> JontheEchidna: So people should be used to that:-)
[14:38] <rgreening> neversfelde: I'll see if I can get k3b to work. do you have that patch handy you were referring to?
[14:39] <neversfelde> rgreening: do you need the debian one or the patch that I created for our package?
[14:39] <neversfelde> or both? :)
[14:39] <rgreening> both
[14:39] <neversfelde> via mail?
[14:39] <rgreening> neversfelde: e-mail them to me
[14:39] <rgreening> ya
[14:39] <rgreening> ty
[14:39] <neversfelde> k
[14:42] <neversfelde> rgreening: on the way
[14:43] <rgreening> k
[14:47] <rgreening> neversfelde: is there any difference between the two patches? I dont seem to see any code differences
[14:47] <neversfelde> rgreening: no, debian uses quilt and we cdbs simple patch system, I was not sure, so I recreated the patch
[14:48] <rgreening> ah. ok, a patch is a patch.. so it should work under any patchsys in general...
[14:48] <rgreening> neversfelde: let me try building local...
[14:50] <rgreening> neversfelde: I just created a symlink to normalize and it works
[14:50] <rgreening> ie it finds the app
[14:52] <JontheEchidna> Agh, why does apport think everything started by kdeinit4 is kdeinit4?
[14:53] <Hatl> hi! i updated my kubuntu to 9.10. now i have the following error: http://pastebin.com/m25361f7b any suggestions?
[14:54] <ScottK> Hatl: Ask in #ubuntu+1
[14:55] <neversfelde> rgreening: mhh, I tried it two times
[14:55] <rgreening> lol
[14:56] <rgreening> neversfelde: let me build with the patch and see if I can get it working that way...
[14:56] <neversfelde> rgreening: would be great
[14:57] <rgreening> neversfelde: do you have any issues with kpackagekit failing to complete install?
[14:58] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: not kde4libs anymore?
[14:59] <neversfelde> rgreening: haven't used it for ages, I can test it. Shall I install a package or when does the error occur?
[14:59] <neversfelde> btw symlink works now, do not know what happened :)
[14:59] <rgreening> neversfelde: yeah, run refresh and apply updates...
[14:59] <rgreening> haha
[14:59] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: plasma-desktop is started on startup by kdeinit4. Now apport sees all plasma-desktop crashes as kdeinit4 crashes and files them against kde4libs
[15:00] <JontheEchidna> I wonder if the package detection mechanism has changed, since this only started happening in karmic...
[15:00] <rgreening> neversfelde: and if you get it to misbehave, can you try and see if you can find out why :) like strace or gdb on it..
[15:08] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: yeah I noticed that a couple weeks ago. i thought nixternal was looking at that but i may be wrong. I don't really know how the detection works, other than that it has something to do with the PID and that it does indeed work correctly if you start the app from a terminal
[15:08] <rgreening> neversfelde: debian patch applies cleanly and its building now
[15:09] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: when you don't start it from a terminal, something started by kdeinit4 (e.g. plasma-desktop) starts it, and becomes a child process of kdeinit4
[15:12] <neversfelde> rgreening: kpackagekit failed, I have to go to a meeting now and will have a closer look at it this evening
[15:12] <rgreening> k
[15:13] <neversfelde> mhh, it produced an error, but the update was done
[15:14] <rgreening> agateau: indicator does not indicate (i.e. no * on the mail icon when there are new messages)
[15:14] <rgreening> neversfelde: sudo apt-get update from command line now
[15:15] <rgreening> you likely have a busted dpkg-configure
[15:15] <rgreening> it leaves it half-installed/configured
[15:15] <agateau> rgreening: it is by design: to avoid getting the * always on because there is an unread message
[15:16] <rgreening> agateau: so, how do I know I have message?
[15:16] <rgreening> now it's totally useless without indication?
[15:16] <rgreening> lol
[15:16] <JontheEchidna> so it went from not being able to be notified only if you have unread messages, to not being able to be notified totally?
[15:17] <agateau> rgreening: I am not satisfied either,
[15:17] <agateau> but it is better than "spamming" the *
[15:19] <JontheEchidna> maybe the * should be reset after you open the indicator popupapplet?
[15:19] <JontheEchidna> anyway, bbl
[15:19] <ScottK> agateau: I'm testing your suspend to disk diaglogue.  It's only giving me 5 seconds.  I thought we wanted to make it longer, not shorter?
[15:20] <agateau> ScottK: it is supposed to be 30 secs by default
[15:20] <agateau> did you change the config?
[15:20] <ScottK> agateau: OK.  I didn't change anything and only got 5.
[15:20] <ScottK> Did it twice.
[15:21] <agateau> strange
[15:21] <ScottK> I didn't replicate it appearing on resume though.  That only happened once so far.
[15:21] <agateau> ScottK: does it says 5 secs in the ui as well?
[15:21] <ScottK> Yes.  It says 5 and counts down.  I didn't let it actually suspend,
[15:21] <ScottK> I could try that.
[15:22] <rgreening> agateau: is it possibly to only set the * when a new message arives and if someone clicks it, reset to no * and then if a new message arrives it adds the *. That would be more consistant.
[15:23] <rgreening> always * or always no * does nothing
[15:23] <agateau> ScottK: I mean, in the configuration ui
[15:24] <agateau> rgreening: I need to check if it's possible, but I am afraid it's not
[15:27] <ScottK> agateau: Oh.  I'll look.  It did suspend and froze on suspend, so I have to recover the box first
[15:28] <agateau> ok
[15:28] <ScottK> agateau: Currently the indicator is a lot less informative than the kmail icon until you click on it.
[15:28] <agateau> ScottK: true
[15:28] <ScottK> I think the information you get on click would be a more useful tooltip than how many apps are running
[15:28] <rgreening> agateau: hmm... well, the code did recognize the fact a message is there. Should be able to add a Persistant Class var that detects whether new message exists or something...
[15:29] <agateau> rgreening: true, but the application is not aware that the indicator menu just opened
[15:30] <rgreening> no, but the indicator should be aware of what it is seeing, no?
[15:30] <rgreening> like, "I was just opened" so "turn off the *". ANd the indicator should have some way to know that an app has updated/changed...
[15:31] <ScottK> agateau: I got the laptop with the short suspend back.  Where is the config U/I?
[15:31] <agateau> ScottK: left click the battery plasmoid,
[15:31] <agateau> click "more..."
[15:31] <ScottK> agateau: It says 5 seconds
[15:32] <agateau> Can you click the "Defaults" button?
[15:33] <ScottK> agateau: No.  It's greyed out.
[15:33] <agateau> ScottK: oh
[15:33] <rgreening> mine shows 30 seconds here
[15:33] <agateau> Might be worth checking if a) patch has been applied b) there is no config file for powerdevil in kubuntu-desktop-settings
[15:34] <ScottK> My box I installed fresh has 30.  The upgraded one is the problem
[15:34] <ScottK> Checking
[15:34] <rgreening> ScottK: is that from a live session
[15:34] <rgreening> ah
[15:34] <ScottK> No, installed system upgraded from Jaunty on Tuesday
[15:34] <rgreening> I have an upgraded system and it shows 30
[15:35] <rgreening> mine is upgraded from jaunty to alpha1 and then subsequent updates
[15:35] <freinhard> does 9.10 ship a working fglrx driver yet?
[15:35] <rgreening> so, it appears an upgrade from jaunty issue
[15:35] <rgreening> some default hanging aroung then needs to be removed/updated.
[15:36] <ScottK> Doesn't look like we ship anything in k-d-s
[15:36] <ScottK> agateau: I guess call it weird and move on.
[15:37] <agateau> ScottK: sounds good to me :)
[15:37] <agateau> rgreening: I can make it work this way,
[15:37] <ScottK> agateau: Another point for you: I gave up on my experiment with ayatana notifications yesterday after I had a Konsole window up, got a notification, and was totally unable to read it.
[15:37] <agateau> it would be interesting to get seele opinion on this
[15:37] <ScottK> Which?
[15:37] <rgreening> my q
[15:37] <rgreening> :)
[15:38] <agateau> ScottK: rgreening suggestion
[15:38] <agateau> ScottK: did you move the mouse over the notification?
[15:38] <rgreening> agateau: feel free.
[15:38] <seele> rgreening: what was your suggestion?
[15:38] <ScottK> agateau: No.
[15:38] <agateau> ScottK: would have turned it transparent
[15:38] <ScottK> If I have to mouse over it to read it, that's broken by design
[15:39] <rgreening> fxing the indicator to show * when new items and remove * when user opens it (i.e. its not new anymore)
[15:39] <agateau> ScottK: sorry, you mean you could not read the notification or the konsole?
[15:39] <ScottK> agateau: I could not read the notification
[15:39] <ScottK> It was black on black.
[15:39] <agateau> ScottK: oh, different problem
[15:39] <agateau> ScottK: notifications should look like Plasma tooltips,
[15:40] <agateau> ScottK: do tooltips look different on your machine?
[15:40] <agateau> ScottK: and which Plasma theme do you use?
[15:40] <ScottK> Default.
[15:40] <ScottK> I just turned it back on.  Please give me a ping.
[15:40] <Quintasan> http://imagebin.ca/view/8dh-ehW.html <-- hmm, how should I deal with this?
[15:40] <agateau> ScottK: ping
[15:41] <seele> i thought old messages were removed after viewing?
[15:41] <ScottK> agateau: Looked like a regular plasma tooltip that time
[15:41] <ScottK> I'll try it some more
[15:41] <agateau> ScottK: ok
[15:42] <agateau> seele: the thing is, an indicator can decide whether it wants to "draw attention"
[15:42] <agateau> which means show the "*" on the icon
[15:42] <rgreening> yeah, it doesn't right now...
[15:42] <rgreening> so I never know if there are new items
[15:42] <agateau> right now KMail creates indicators for each folder with unread messages
[15:43] <agateau> but does not mark them as "draw attention", because it would mean the "*" would be there as long as there are new messages
[15:43] <agateau> err s/new/unread/
[15:43] <agateau> rgreening proposal is to have kmail set the "draw attention" flag,
[15:43] <agateau> but make the "*" go away when you click the icon
[15:44] <agateau> which would change the "*" meaning from "there is an indicator which requires attention",
[15:44] <rgreening> yeah :) If I peeked, then I know there are messages and they are no longer new indications
[15:44] <agateau> to "there is a new indicator in the menu since last time you opened it"
[15:44]  * rgreening likes that
[15:47] <Quintasan> Bug #395079 looks like regression :/
[15:47] <seele> ok? i hardly understand what they are doing with the design now so do whatever you think will help you
[15:47] <agateau> :)
[15:47] <agateau> After writing it down, I think it makes sense
[15:48] <agateau> I am a bit worried about having a difference in behavior with the GNOME version,
[15:48] <agateau> but I guess they can catch up :)
[15:49] <yuriy> agateau: are you sure that's not what the gnome version does? it should probably follow that, but it seemed like they had that stuff designed out
[15:49] <agateau> yuriy: I must confess I would need to check
[15:49] <agateau> I assumed it worked differently
[15:55] <rgreening> neversfelde: found the problem. the patch is not 100% correct.
[15:56] <freinhard> how do i get the kde frontend for do-release-upgrade?
[15:58] <freinhard> tried "do-release-upgrade -d -f kde"
[15:58] <JontheEchidna> update-notifier-kde -d I think
[15:59] <Riddell> yep
[15:59] <Riddell> I need to check on the documentation for that today
[16:02] <seele> so i'm uber confused about this UDS thing, afaik it hasnt even been announced?
[16:02] <rgreening> Riddell: I think I have k3b normalize issue resolved... will need you to upload in a bit if it tests out fine
[16:07] <freinhard> after u-n-k disables third party software sources, it mentions synaptic to re-enable them. somehow confusing for kubuntu users that have never seen synaptic ;)
[16:08] <freinhard> the updatemanager doesn't disable sources in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ ?
[16:09] <rgreening> should ref software-properties-kde
[16:09] <rgreening> which edits that dir in a gui...
[16:10] <ScottK> seele: I think everyone agrees it was not properly announced, so they are being flexible about the application deadline.
[16:11] <seele> ScottK: the location hasnt even been announced
[16:11] <seele> doesnt matter to me but it does matter for getting other kubunteros there
[16:11] <ScottK> seele: It was announced in a video to ALF.  It's in Dallas, TX.
[16:11] <seele> oh gee, that's really accessible
[16:12] <ScottK> No kidding
[16:12] <seele> why dont they just start picking people again, the application process is a farce
[16:12] <ScottK> Same video that announced "Lucid Lynx"
[16:22] <yuriy> seele: I think they were going for "You saw Mountain View, you saw Boston, now time for real gun-toting America"
[16:47] <freinhard> i'm somehow confused about bzr. branched update-manager, patched one file, commited, and did bzr push lp:~freinhard/update-manager/<branch-name>
[16:48] <freinhard> something wrong about that? just got confused by the traffic bzr push causes
[16:54] <Riddell> freinhard: that should work, you can look in launchpad if it has appeared there
[16:54] <Riddell> it'll only work if you have ssh keys setup in launchpad of course
[16:55] <freinhard> did, but upload >20MB of traffic for a 4line patch? that's odd...
[16:59]  * txwikinger_work likes Dallas
[17:00]  * txwikinger_work wonders why every time he upgrades KDE the weather widgets stop working
[17:01]  * freinhard stopped wondering why anything stops working when he upgrades anything ;)
[17:02]  * txwikinger_work thinks when he stops wondering he will not use it anymore
[17:14] <rgreening> freinhard: because it uploaded a new branch for you to work from presumably unlinked from the original
[17:14] <rgreening> not just the patch diff
[17:15] <rgreening> neversfelde: ok, so the debian patch was half-complete
[17:15] <rgreening> neversfelde: the config entry stuff needed to be updated to normalize-audio as well.
[17:15] <ScottK> rgreening: Please be sure to send them back the fixed one
[17:16] <rgreening> ScottK: yep
[17:16] <rgreening> ScottK: already attempted to work with original patch writer. he said no time...
[17:16] <rgreening> ScottK: so I'll just file a regular bug with the patch
[17:16] <rgreening> and hope someone actually deals with it :)
[17:16] <ScottK> Sounds good
[17:18] <freinhard> rgreening: how could i avoid that?
[17:18] <rgreening> Riddell: do we need ot have a bug kikoff session/meeting to go over some important bugs we need to quash for Karmic? JontheEchidna, you probably have a great handle on the bugs... care ot make a list...
[17:18] <rgreening> freinhard: well, now its updated it will only post the actual change going forward
[17:19] <rgreening> freinhard: you made a new branch.. so it was to be expected
[17:19] <rgreening> freinhard: did you mean to branch or did you intend to put the changes back to the original tree?
[17:20] <freinhard> rgreening: nope, just wondering why i do have to upload a copy of lp:update-manager. bzr knows that i branched lp:update-manager and knows what i commited. so using the already present lp:update-manager revision i branched and applying the changes would have been much easier.
[17:21] <freinhard> (much easier=a lot less traffic)
[17:23] <Riddell> rgreening: we should probably have a meeting early next week yes
[17:23] <Riddell> or friday even if possible
[17:23] <Riddell> rgreening: care to do the timesheet thing?
[17:28] <rgreening> Riddell: sure... do you mean propose a time via the online meeting at http://doodle.com?
[17:28] <Riddell> that's the one
[17:29] <rgreening> ok, do we have a kubuntu userid or just create one of my own
[17:29] <rgreening> Riddell: ^
[17:30] <Riddell> it's never needed a user id
[17:30] <Riddell> or maybe it does for setting up a thing, I would have just used a personal account
[17:31] <rgreening> kk. will do. Send out a mail shortly.
[17:31] <rgreening> Riddell: how do we book #ubuntu-meeting as well?
[17:31] <Riddell> ask nixternal to add to calendar?
[17:34] <rgreening> ok
[17:46] <rgreening> Riddell: sent
[17:50] <seele> rgreening: what time zone did you propose?
[17:50] <seele> i have 1am 3am 5am for New York
[17:52] <ScottK> rgreening doesn't sleep much.  His snoring keeps him awake
[17:53] <rgreening> hmm.. should have been America/St_Johns
[17:53] <rgreening> Im GMT -3:30
[17:54] <rgreening> oh crap.. I chose AM not PM
[17:54] <rgreening> 1 sec
[17:55] <JontheEchidna> lol
[17:55] <rgreening> seele: try it now
[17:55] <Riddell> surely Canadians use a 24 hour clock?
[17:57] <rgreening> Riddell: lol. I forgot to type PM and it assumed a 24HR clock and adjusted to AM. oops
[17:58] <rgreening> all correct now.
[18:02] <yuriy> rgreening: no evenings?
[18:02] <rgreening> heh
[18:03] <rgreening> hmm.... I can add a couple more....
[18:03] <rgreening> I based on seele's last one
[18:06] <rgreening> yuriy: done
[18:17] <rgreening> ScottK, JontheEchidna, Nightrose, seele: I added some new times on request... so, you may wish to review. ty
[18:17] <Nightrose> k
[18:17] <ScottK> rgreening: I did.  I can't make any of the new one.
[18:17]  * ScottK also forgot to log in, so can't edit anyway
[18:17] <rgreening> lol
[18:17] <seele> rgreening: how do you edit?
[18:17] <seele> yeah i can't edit mine either
[18:17] <rgreening> np. I can del it if you want?
[18:18] <rgreening> seele, ScottK want me ot del the entry?
[18:18] <seele> rgreening: sure
[18:18] <rgreening> so you can readd
[18:18] <ScottK> rgreening: Fine
[18:18] <rgreening> k
[18:18] <rgreening> 1 sec
[18:18] <rgreening> seele: done
[18:19] <rgreening> ScottK: done
[18:19] <rgreening> ok. no more changes :)
[18:19] <rgreening> haha
[18:34] <Riddell> neversfelde: translations working fine for me after upgrade (French), what was broken for you?
[19:11] <rgreening> neversfelde: wow this k3b normalize issue is stupid. hahah
[19:11] <rgreening> neversfelde: I think I have finally got it.
[19:11] <rgreening> stupid binary name changes
[19:32] <apachelogger> nixternal, Nightrose, JontheEchidna: need to do skype meeting I think
[19:33]  * JontheEchidna looks around for a mic
[19:33] <Nightrose> apachelogger: i'd love to but right now is quite bad for me
[19:33] <Nightrose> can you do it without me?
[19:34] <apachelogger> not right now I meant :P
[19:34] <apachelogger> though we could, in theory ;)
[19:34] <Nightrose> heh ok
[19:34] <Nightrose> well then friday or weekend is good for me
[19:34] <Nightrose> release tomorrow
[19:34]  * apachelogger is going to graz tomorrow anyway
[19:35] <apachelogger> that being said, my lecture schedule gives me the creeps
[19:37] <Nightrose> hehe
[19:52] <rgreening> Riddell: I added a patch to fix normalize in k3b. I uploaded to lp:~roderick-greening to build/test. I'm reasonably certain this will fix. Fee free to test when it builds and then upload the fix
[19:52] <rgreening> Riddell: I'm still waiting for it to build on my system here...
[19:58] <sgh> Hi
[19:59] <sgh> Are you guys aware of the splash screen during karmic boot is disabled.
[20:04] <rgreening> sgh: its intentional
[20:05] <rgreening> newer fast boot, so one less program to load... the idea is to get X loaded faster
[20:06] <Riddell> jussi01: this may appeal to your humour http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9plgi/this_is_the_icon_kde_uses_to_tell_me_im_connected/
[20:07] <rgreening> heh
[20:08] <rgreening> yeah, funny how connected show something which is not yet connected
[20:09] <rgreening> so, by that logic, not-connected it would be plugged in. Guess the designer worked for "You can't do that on television" and made it during the opposite sketch :P
[20:09] <Riddell> a plugged in cable is pretty hard to recognise
[20:10] <rgreening> true... and animating the connection would be pornographic
[20:10]  * rgreening hides
[20:11] <ScottK> Riddell: Are you going to take care of uploading agateau's kdepim update?
[20:11] <Riddell> ScottK: should do yes, after beta
[20:12] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks.  One less thing for me to be grumpy about.
[20:13] <rgreening> Riddell: k3b works with normalize now. care to take from my PPA (lp:~roderick-greening) and upload?
[20:13] <rgreening> I just tested and it correctly detects it now.
[20:14] <Riddell> rgreening: we're in beta freeze just now
[20:14] <rgreening> Riddell: yeah.. after.. is ok
[20:14] <rgreening> :)
[20:20] <Sput> somehow, that icon is used for "disconnected" in my knm
[20:20] <Sput> as it should be :)
[20:22] <Sput> mh, should check tomorrow when I'm wired again what happens then
[20:38] <ScottK> Riddell: No reason not to upload and put it in queue now.
[20:40] <Riddell> except I'm doing other things :)
[20:40] <ScottK> Fair enough
[20:41] <Riddell> I wonder if I should try and get any of the plasma netbook guys to UDS
[20:42] <ScottK> That'd be nice.
[20:54] <davmor2> Riddell: goto #ubuntu-testing looks like dvd might have an issue :)
[21:47] <nixternal> Riddell: fyi: anyone can add to the calendar on the fridge now :)
[21:47] <nixternal> though I always have to read the help on how to do it
[21:57] <Riddell> how does this read?   https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KarmicUpgrades/Kubuntu
[22:11] <seele> Riddell: how oftern will there be broken packages?
[22:12] <davmor2> Riddell: shouldn't it just read NO! DON'T DO IT! ;)
[22:19] <yuriy> Riddell: for the first command, the text doesn't match the screenshot
[22:21] <yuriy> lol a coffee... go to school or work while 9.10 is downloaded and installed
[22:21] <yuriy> Riddell: oh and it says 9.04 there instead of 9.10
[22:22] <yuriy> Riddell: also at the top
[22:30] <ScottK> Last time I upgraded on release day it took ~12 hours.
[22:30] <Monika|K> 0o
[22:30] <Monika|K> was that on a cellphone connection?
[22:30] <Monika|K> Riddell it reads well, but the formatting is very mixed
[22:31] <Monika|K> for example first the command is bold, second it is in fixed width font
[22:31] <davmor2> Monika|K: The clue is on release day
[22:31] <Monika|K> first Alt-F2, bold, then Alt+F2 in italics
[22:32] <ScottK> Monika|K: No.  Just a very busy day at the data center
[22:36] <Riddell> seele: you mean during upgrades?  hard to tell until people upgrade, hopefully never but my flatmate says he's never had a successful upgrade (although he uses a different desktop)
[22:40] <seele> neither have i for that matter :(
[22:40]  * ScottK almost always has successful upgrades.
[22:40] <Monika|K> I have never had a broken update
[22:41] <Monika|K> only aft4er the upgrade to Edgy I had no sound and couldn't figure it out, so I reinstalled
[22:41] <seele> my stuff always breaks
[22:41] <ScottK> Right, but that's one of your special powers.
[22:41] <freinhard> 9.04->10 doesn't install grub2 yet?
[22:41] <ScottK> Reasonably certain it won't.
[22:46]  * Riddell updates adept in hardy to offer upgrade to karmic
[22:51] <claydoh> Riddell: will there be a help page for hardy-karmic upgrades?
[22:52] <claydoh> ala https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JauntyUpgrades/Kubuntu/8.04
[22:52] <Riddell> claydoh: yes but I need to make hardy upgrades possible first
[22:53] <Riddell> thus my /me from some moments ago
[22:54] <claydoh> ok, i can fire up a vm and install hardy for some screenshots  if necessary as I imagine we can copy the jaunty page for this, and just update the relevant images
[22:55] <Riddell> claydoh: I'll let you know when I get packages then
[22:56] <claydoh> Riddell: ok
[23:53] <claydoh> ScottK: I need a better or updated blurb about the netbook edition