/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/09/30/#launchpad.txt

KIAazehi, I'm trying to set up automatic translation import, but I can't get it to work.01:05
KIAazeWhat is the "domain" mentioned here?: https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/ImportingFromBazaarBranches01:05
KIAazeis it from bzr branch lp:domain ?01:06
KIAazealso, is the first import automatic or does it need to be reviewed? How long does it take?01:07
wgrantKIAaze: 'domain' in the translations context normally refers to a gettext domain.01:11
wgrantI think it should be automatic.01:12
KIAazeok, do you know how I can find out the domain used?01:13
KIAazeI have .pot files automatically created by gambas01:13
wgrantI think the .po files should normally be in a directory named the same as the domain, but I don't really know.01:14
KIAazehow would launchpad know the domain to use anyway when searching for .pot files?01:14
Methshmmm, 2 hours since merge req and still no diff, is something broken?01:45
spmMeths: can you give me a name/link/whatever to identify the req in question?02:05
Methsspm: https://code.launchpad.net/~j-corwin/openlp/presentations/+merge/1262502:06
dionesHi02:32
dionesI cant figure out how to install a package from a launchpad apt02:32
dioneseven after reading the guide02:32
mrooney|wdiones: which version of Ubuntu are you running?02:34
dionesjaunty02:35
spmMeths: I can clearly see it's not working for you; but the scripts in Q are (apparently...) working fine. I'll have to grab one of the relevant devs atm, and they're all afk for now.02:35
Methsspm: Thanks, off to bed anyway so no rush.  One thought, he may have changed a binary so if it tries to diff that it may cause problems, not sure how launchpad filters binaries.02:37
spmthat's a darn good question actually. no idea... :-)02:37
wgrantMeths, spm: Binaries do crash that script right now, I believe.02:38
wgrantThere's a bug on that.02:39
spmirritatingly then, it's not letting me know it's crashed. :-(02:39
Methsoops, do we just wait for the fix or is there a workaround?02:39
wgrantspm: Not sure how far it crashes.02:40
wgrantBug 43632502:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 436325 in launchpad-code "Diffstat generation chokes on binaries (and others)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43632502:41
Methsah, thanks for the info02:42
spmMeths: I suspect we'll have to wait for the fix :-(02:42
KIAaze@ diones: at what part are you stuck? What guide are you following?02:44
MethsYep, I assume the comments and approvals are unaffected so people could look through the commits instead and it could still get merged.02:44
dionesKIAaze: ah nevermind found the solution02:45
KIAazeok :)02:45
dionesthanks btw02:45
shawn_GASP lessons isnt loading for me03:26
RenatoSilvafrom https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/LicensingFAQ:03:51
RenatoSilvaCan I select a packaged translation from some other template? Yes, however, it is up to you to check licensing compatibility. For example, you should not reuse nontrivial translations from a GPL module in a BSD-licensed project without asking the author for permission.03:52
RenatoSilvaWhy not, aren't translations of the GPL project under BSD?03:52
lifelesswhy would they be?03:53
RenatoSilva because the translation is used in LP03:53
RenatoSilvasorry, LP is used for thanslation03:54
RenatoSilvaas the FAQ stands, if you use LP for translating, that part of your code (the *.po and *.pot) are licensed under BSD03:54
lifelessthat FAQ talks about projects that are GPL, not *GPL and using LP for their translations*03:54
RenatoSilvait's confusing, am I missing something on that FAQ?03:55
lifelessRenatoSilva: its under the heading 'Can I select a packaged translation from some other template?'03:56
lifelessthat means 'from outside launchpad'03:56
RenatoSilvathis is a pretty clearer: https://help.launchpad.net/TermsofUse03:56
RenatoSilvaI'm sorry I'm confused03:57
lifelesscan you explain your confusion03:58
RenatoSilvamy software is GLP, and so it is its translation, dot. BSD? What?03:59
lifeless*If* you use launchpad for translations, you are making an exception to your GPL to allow your translations to be BSD04:00
lifelessas the terms of use say.04:00
RenatoSilvait's not there, can't find it04:01
lifelesshttps://help.launchpad.net/Translations/LicensingFAQ "require that translations submitted in Launchpad licensed using the BSD licence. "04:02
RenatoSilvaAs far as I can understand, the work done inside LP will be BSD, right? But these translations made in LP that are BSD will --come back to the code-- (through branch export + merge) and therefore will become GPL anyway. This is my confusion04:02
RenatoSilva(00:02:21) lifeless: https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/LicensingFAQ "require that translations submitted in Launchpad licensed using the BSD licence. " ---> this quote is not on the  FAQ either04:03
lifelessRenatoSilva: they will still be BSD; but you can combine BSD work into GPL work04:04
lifelessRenatoSilva: its on the top of the FAQ04:04
RenatoSilvalifeless: without any change to the licensing terms of the software04:05
RenatoSilva?04:05
lifelessthats right; if I create something that is BSD, and you create something that is GPL, you can incorporate my thing04:05
lifelessyou can't change my thing to be GPL; but you can incorporate it04:06
RenatoSilvaweird!04:06
lifelesscopyright is weird04:06
lifelessits a totally articial construction; open source software is a hack on top of this.04:06
RenatoSilvayou can't change my thing to be GPL; but you can incorporate it ---> but that's what I do when I incorporate BSD stuff don't? How would one distinguish between BSD and GPL stuff when I don't give any notice about it? I just say the whole software is GPL?04:07
lifelessit would be nice to say that the translations are BSD04:08
RenatoSilvait would be nice??? :D04:08
lifelessin a strict sense its not needed, because the GPL includes all the requirements of the BSD04:08
RenatoSilvabut GPL restricts BSD and therefore BSD translations04:09
RenatoSilvaif you translate 1000 strings, they are BSD in LP, but when you import these 1000 items into the project code, which is GPL, then these 1000 translations become GPL and become restricted and cannot be used as BSD anymore.04:11
lifelessno04:11
lifelessthey don't change, they are still BSD; but you can include them because BSD is compatible with GPL04:12
RenatoSilvaIf "import inot the code" means auto export to a output branch, then merge it with the trunk that is the input branch, then that means that what was BSD before now is GPL even inside LP04:12
lifelessif you aren't permitting LP to use the pot as BSD then you can't use launchpad translations04:12
lifelesstahts what the FAQ and terms of use say04:13
RenatoSilvalifeless: when I include them and the user downloads the software, he'll see only the GPL note. He won't know that there is BSD stuff there. And he could accuse me of doing that with evil intentions.04:14
lifeless13:07 < lifeless> it would be nice to say that the translations are BSD04:15
lifeless13:07 < lifeless> in a strict sense its not needed, because the GPL includes all the04:15
lifeless                  requirements of the BSD04:15
RenatoSilvaso it seems to me that it's not a matter of being nice, but that you should change the license of your software to GLP + BSD04:15
RenatoSilvalifeless: I'm sorry if I'm unclear04:15
lifelessI'm not sure if you are asking me if you should do that, seeking legal advice, or something else04:16
lifelessI'm not a lawyer: I can't give legal advice.04:16
RenatoSilvalifeless: if you omit the BSD note, you're hiding this info from the public. People don't know by just looking at your source code offline (outside of LP), that there is BSD stuff mixed together. I think people could say this is evil, because you're restricting the BSD stuff to GPL. For example, Imagine you don't even know LP exists, but you get the sofwtare.zip and extracts the source code. You want to create a proprietary app an04:23
lifelessRenatoSilva: you're allowed to take BSD and use it completely privately: Microsoft do this with BSD code, and so do Apple.04:24
lifelessRenatoSilva: your comment cut off at "proprietary app an"04:24
RenatoSilvaYou want to create a proprietary app and use the translations made in that source code. But you say "oh this software is GPL, can't use the translations", then other says: "No, part or all translations are BSD becasue they were made in LP", then you say "why didn't the programmer tell me this?".04:24
RenatoSilvabut how to identify which msgids/strs are BSD and which are not (those imported into LP but never changed there)?04:25
RenatoSilvayou just can't identify! thus in pratice the tranlsations are all GPL04:26
RenatoSilvaI was thinking that I *should* made the software GPL + BSD, but it seems you mean that no one will care about this restriction04:28
RenatoSilvaI think I've got it now04:28
RenatoSilvaI just disagree (or don't understand) that BSD stuff is still BSD even after you imported LP results into the code. I think they --become-- GPL in that source, because BSD allows it04:31
ScottKRenatoSilva: That are still BSD, it just isn't very practical to pick those bits out.04:32
RenatoSilvaScottK: but as I said in the example how would one be aware of that?04:33
ScottKRIght, so in many cases it's a distinction without a difference.04:34
RenatoSilvaScottK: if you say all the content is GPL but in fact it's not (it's part GPL, part BSD) then you're lying about your sotware license04:34
ScottKNot at all.  I'm saying it's distributable under the GPL and that's true.  It may also be distributable under other terms.04:35
RenatoSilvaScottK: but I should specify all the other terms. If I don't specify, then it's strictly GPL04:38
ScottKThere's no requirement to list all the options.04:40
RenatoSilvaScottK: otherwise you could get the translation part that you know it is BSD because "a LP friend told you that" and insert it into your proprietary app. However in the download package you don't mention BSD, so what's your argument for copying the work as it was BSD when your downloaded package doesn't stand that? Would you just say "because someone told me it is"?04:40
ScottKMany people license software dual licensed commercial for paying customers and GPL for FOSS.04:40
ScottKYou'd need more than that.04:41
RenatoSilvaYou can't copy04:41
RenatoSilvaOutside of GPL terms04:41
ScottKUnless you get it from somewhere else that gives you BSD terms.04:42
RenatoSilvabecause the package doesn't mention other terms, it restricts you tor gpl04:42
ScottKIf that's all you  have, yes.04:42
ScottKBSD people get torked about this all the time with Linux kernel people borrow BSD code and modify it unders GPL and they can't take it  back.04:42
ScottKNot particualrly friendly, but there's no legal obstacle.04:43
RenatoSilvayes, you can't turn GPL into BSD, that's my point. When you import LP tanslations into GPL-only code, I do think you're restricting the work to GPL. The work is BSD in LP but not in the source code (trunk, download packages etc). You can reuse translations from LP under BSD, but you can't reuse the --same-- translations from the source code whcih is GPL-only. The same translations are GPL in one place (because BSD can be GPL'd), a04:48
RenatoSilvaAnd the big problem is that when you import back your translations to LP, you're trying to change GPL into BSD which is illegal, that's what's so weird to get :)04:49
RenatoSilvaI'm sorry guys if I'm annoying :( I just wanted to understand it :(04:49
RenatoSilvaso it seems to me that anything containing those *.po(t) files --should-- declare they're BSD04:52
RenatoSilvawhich woiuld include any download package, project properites, license notes inside teh code etc04:53
RenatoSilva"All translations imported from sources external to Launchpad are owned by the translator that created them. In general, these translations are licensed under the same terms as the software for which they are a translation."04:55
lifelessI think you should file a bug about that04:56
RenatoSilvafor example GPL. When you download a po, not all the strings were necessarily translated at Launchpad. As the quote notes, part of this po or the whole po may be work done externally and imported into LP, therefore you're downloading a po that is partially or totally GPL, as it was totally BSD. The solution would be dowloading a partial po that was not imported but made in LP, therefore fully BSD. But this would require to know th05:02
RenatoSilvaI think an easier solution would be just to share translations among projects with the same license. So the translations could be anything you like, but you'd only get suggestions from translations under the same license05:04
RenatoSilvaif you want to use GPL translations, then you'll get suggestions from GPL projects, and so forth05:04
spmRenatoSilva: without wanting to bog down in an argument. The copyright owner CAN turn GPL into BSD. That's possibly the key factor you're missing.05:05
RenatoSilvaspm: I think the major problem I see is when you translate strings in LP that are therefore BSD, and you export it to a bzr i18n-out branch,and you merge it into trunk. It's not clear what is the license of the content of branches though. As my project is GPL, one could say that so they are the branches. So trunk contains BSD work converted into GPL. But usually trunk is the input for rosetta.05:15
RenatoSilvaspm: After merging (or further changes, not sure), rosetta will import the work that was originally done on it. But theorically you could not import that work and make it BSD becasue it was GPL'd by rosetta export. Or one could stand that branch licenses are the ones from the project, except for all po(t) files that are BSD. Well, I don't know.05:15
spmRenatoSilva: I am failing to see your problem. One of my GPL'd projects includes a source code function straight from OpenBSD. ie I deliberately distribute the openbsd .c & .h files with my project. Where's the beef? Translations are no different. Just blobs of creativity/activity.05:18
RenatoSilvaspm: (about the copytright) the onwer can change licenses, but it shoud do it. My download package does not mention BSD, therefore you can't reuse translations --from that package--, because I didn't published that package as GPL + BSD.05:19
spmthen you have a bug in how your package is explained. I have a section that describes every bit of the package and what licenses they follow. You should do the same. Problem goes away and becomes a non-issue.05:21
RenatoSilvaspm: your project notes all the licenses though, right? I mean, the openbsd files are not inheriting GPL because of the lack of a note like "these files here are in another license XYZ"05:21
spivRenatoSilva: isn't that what spm just said?05:22
RenatoSilvayes, but I was writing it before he answered :)05:23
spivAh.05:23
RenatoSilva"If and when we allow proprietary projects to use Launchpad for translation, they will get the same translation suggestions as anyone else. Those may include translations you entered (and conversely, those projects' translations may be included in the suggestions you receive as well)."05:37
RenatoSilvaI think this suggests that the --whole-- po(t) files become BSD when imported into LP, even if it's GPL or proprietary!05:38
spivCopyright isn't intrinsically a per-file concept.05:38
RenatoSilvaand that branch licenses may not be just the one declared in project properties05:39
RenatoSilvawell it may, as long as it's the copyright onwer who's importing GPL/proprietary pos into LP05:40
RenatoSilvathe copyright ower does not convert from GPL to BSD in my example, it gives the pos to LP under another license terms :)05:41
spmRenatoSilva: I guess we've failed to answer your questions to your satisfaction. Can you summarise your key issues and lodge them as a Question against LP Translations? They've been thru this stuff with a fine tooth comb and I have the fullest confidence they'll be able to answer your concerns satisfactoryly.05:43
spiv"convert from GPL to BSD" isn't something that can happen.  A copyright owner may choose to distribute a work with different licensing terms than they have distributed it in the past.  Some licences allow non-copyright holders to redistribute a work with different terms to the ones granted by the license they received it under.05:43
RenatoSilvaso when rosetta does an auto import, it's getting the pos under BSD terms, whatever the original licence was (the one submitting the pos are supposed to have the power of changing licenses -- the copyright owners)05:43
spivI'm not a lawyer etc, but precision in language seems pretty important to have a useful conversation about this stuff.05:44
spivspm's suggestion is a good one.05:45
RenatoSilvaspiv: yes that's what I mean, there's no GPL -> BSD, it's the owner changing the license :) (as spm said I was missing this point)05:45
RenatoSilvaspm: I'm sorry! I was just dumping my conclusions, sorry05:47
spmnp05:49
RenatoSilvaspm: I'm sorry but maybe the LP docs need to be clarified. As I said, you change the license to BSD, but when you read other parts of docs you think that's not how it works (e.g. "All translations imported from sources external to Launchpad are owned by the translator that created them. In general, these translations are licensed under the same terms as the software for which they are a translation." --> this made me think that th05:51
RenatoSilvabut ok this ^ was my last msg, won't annoy you anymore.... thanks so much!05:51
RenatoSilvathank you, good night05:53
spivGood night.05:54
al-maisanGood morning06:58
joaopintogood morning09:57
joaopintoApport retrace service classified one of my bugs as duplicated and linked to an original bug which I don't have access to09:58
joaopintohow do I remove the duplicate status ?09:58
noodles775joaopinto: click on the Mark as duplicate and remove the bug number.09:59
joaopintook, tks09:59
noodles775(it's an optional field).09:59
noodles775np09:59
joaopintohum, Mark as duplicate is not available10:00
noodles775joaopinto: sorry, what's the bug?10:00
joaopintoops, its the "Duplicate of" field, done it10:01
noodles775Great.10:01
wgrantjoaopinto: Why would you remove the duplicate marker just because of that?10:02
wgrantapport is generally right.10:02
joaopintowgrant, because 1) I can't confirm that is a duplicate 2) I am unable to follow up the bug handling, which is the entire purpose of reporting a bug10:02
wgrantjoaopinto: With apport it's different. Trust apport. It is usually right. The original should be publicised eventually.10:03
wgrantPlus if it's a duplicate, you are not necessarily required.10:03
joaopintowgrant, Is not the bug that needs me, I am the one needing the bug fixed10:04
joaopintoapport maybe right, that does not help me :)10:05
wgrantA triager will make the bug public eventually.10:05
wgrantYou're just making everything harder by unmarking it.10:05
joaopintowgrant, it's a serious bug, i can't login into msn using empathy, your statements use the "will make", "is usually", that is all very uncertain to me, are you in contact with the person that will triage the bug, or that just a guess ?10:07
joaopintofrom my perspective, I have a bug, I have reported, I was informed that it maybe already been report, but I have no information if the initial report is beeing worked or not10:09
joaopintoif the initial bug report gets public I will handle my own record and set it as duplicate10:12
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lamalexHey eveyone, launchpad doesn't appear to be taking my strings from bzr?14:54
lamalexcan anyone help me figure out why14:54
beunolamalex, what do you mean taking your strings?14:56
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lamalexbeuno: it's not importing my translations14:59
lamalexi have it set to do a bzr import15:00
lamalexwhat does it look for when doing the import?15:01
lamalexAh, does the .pot need to be in bzr?15:04
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lamalexbeuno: ?15:08
beunolamalex, I don't know much about translations, but henninge, jtv, danilos and dpm do15:09
jtvlamalex: do you have a url for the release series in question?15:09
jtvlamalex: and yes, you do need a template otherwise not much importing is going to happen.  :)15:10
lamalexjtv: ah, mine is autogenerated. I don't know why I'd assume that lp would autogenit for me..15:20
jtvlamalex: we're hoping to support that at some point, but even then it's going to be "most common cases" only.15:20
lamalexgotcha15:21
lamalexok, so I pushed my .pot to bzr. How long should it take to import?15:21
beunojtv, danilos, jml, at some point we need to figure out how to make this whole thing easier15:22
beunoeveryone gets lost in translations15:22
jtvlamalex: hopefully within the hour15:23
lamalexbeuno: it seems like a lot of magic15:24
jmlbeuno, heh, yes15:24
beunolamalex, it is, and we need people to know how it works  ;)15:24
beunomagicians are so 18th century15:24
beunojml, I fell in love with your headphones15:25
=== Ursinha changed the topic of #launchpad to: Code hosting offline 10.00-10.30 UTC 1st Oct -- http://is.gd/3MyHY | Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: Ursinha | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
VK7HSEHey I know I live under a rock, but are bug reports no longer possible via the web interface? because when clicking on the "report a bug" (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zlib/+filebug) you get redirected to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs is this normal now?15:58
maxbVK7HSE: apparently. there is widespread gnashing of teeth16:02
maxbYou can append ?no-redirect to the url16:02
UrsinhaVK7HSE, what maxb said :)16:02
VK7HSEAhh! not an issue just got me a tad confused when I was going in circles! ;)16:02
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liwI can't edit the description of https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/421318, I get ""Entity-body was not a well-formed JSON document."16:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 421318 in totem "totem crashed with SIGABRT in __kernel_vsyscall()" [High,Triaged]16:21
Ursinhaliw, this is bug 42392416:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 423924 in malone "Entity-body was not a well-formed JSON document when updating bug description" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42392416:25
Ursinhaliw, happened to me, and insisting made it go away :/16:25
liwgood, then it's known, thanks16:26
CarlFKhttps://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu  click 'Report a bug" takes me to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs   "you can file one via Launchpad." which takes me back to https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu16:32
CarlFKI turned off edge, same thing16:32
idnarCarlFK: doesn't that help page give a different URL to use?16:33
CarlFK hggdh in #u-bugs is not having this problem16:33
idnarhttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Filing%20bugs%20at%20Launchpad.net16:33
CarlFKidnar: yes16:33
idnarhmm, okay, then I don't know16:34
idnarif I visit http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/PACKAGENAME/+filebug?no-redirect then I don't get redirected16:34
CarlFKit is doing a redirect or something... trying to figure out if FF will show me those16:34
hggdhI can confirm that I get sent to +filebug on Edge.16:34
UrsinhaCarlFK, you can append ?no-redirect to the url16:35
CarlFKhttp://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+filebug?no-redirect16:35
CarlFKthat;s jsut for me... stand by...16:36
CarlFKthis is looking good16:36
UrsinhaCarlFK, yes, the ubuntu process to file a bug changed, so you have to append the no-redirect for it to go to lp16:36
Ursinhait's explained in the page you are redirected to :)16:36
hggdhUrsinha: I did not have the no-redirect...16:42
Ursinhahggdh, what do you mean?16:44
hggdhwhen I was checking CarlFK statement, I clicked on "report a bug", and got sent directly to +filebug16:44
hggdhthis was on edge16:45
hggdhstill happening :-)16:46
hggdhUrsinha: ^^16:47
Ursinhahggdh, in this case I'll have to check16:48
hggdhperhaps membership in some group makes a difference? Or cache?16:49
ScottKhggdh: Ubuntu bug squad (or whatever it's called now) doesn't get the redirect.16:49
ScottKThe assumption is you'll know if you should use the web U/I or ubuntu-bug16:50
hggdhScottK: ah, there it is. Thank you.16:50
Ursinhathanks ScottK16:51
ScottKYou're welcome16:51
CarlFKhggdh: Ursinha - thanks.  was making me dizzy16:52
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jkakarIs it intentional that there's no obvious way, on the milestone page, to tell if the milestone is active or not?18:24
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mahfouzi cannot updates bug reports at the moment18:54
mahfouzis it possible that there is a bug in the new functionality18:55
Ursinhamahfouz, I think you hit bug 42392419:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 423924 in malone "Entity-body was not a well-formed JSON document when updating bug description" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42392419:03
Ursinhais that what's happening to you?19:04
mahfouzyes, it's like in the png posted19:04
mahfouzthanks for pointing me19:05
mahfouzI will mark as affected19:05
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Ursinhathanks for letting usknow mahfouz19:07
Ursinha*us know19:07
jeromeghello19:09
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jeromegI would like to "unsuscribe" from Launchpad, how can I do thatN19:10
jeromeg?19:10
Ursinhajeromeg, if you're not using your account anymore, at the bottom of your profile page you have the "Deactivate your account" link19:11
jeromegmmm, can't find it here19:12
mahfouzhttps://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/4719:19
jeromegok, got it19:19
jeromegthank you19:19
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slaytonI'm hosting a project with and I performed my initial bzr push to launchpad a few days ago and noticed this morning that there is a section of a file that needs to be removd20:32
slaytonhow can I go about getting rid of an old commit from the history of the code?20:32
slayton*with launchpad20:32
Ursinhaslayton, well, I guess removing the branch would do what you want20:37
Ursinharockstar, ^20:38
rockstarslayton, well, you'll probably want to delete the branch from launchpad first.20:38
rockstarslayton, I'm assuming it's a file that has a password or something confidential in it?20:38
slaytonsomething like that20:40
slaytonhow do I delete a branch from launchpad20:40
Ursinhaslayton, when you're in the branch, there's the "Delete branch" option in the right portlet21:05
Ursinhain the branch page in Launchpad, I mean21:05
slaytonok thanks21:10
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jkakarsinzui: Before I file a bug, is this expected behaviour: I'm a driver in the landscape-project project group, and landscape and landscape-client projects, by way of being a member of the landscape team.23:05
jkakarsinzui: If I navigate an open milestone via the project group I have no means to edit it (to close it in this case).23:06
sinzuihmm23:06
jkakarsinzui: But if I get to the same milestone via one of the projects I'm able to do so.23:06
jkakarsinzui: It's not too big a deal for me right now, given that I can easily change my navigation behaviour, but one place it causes problems is in launchpadlib-based scripts.23:06
sinzuiprojectgroup milestones are virtual23:07
sinzuijkakar: They are created for the view based on the name string and the product it is pared with. They are only usable for presenting reports23:07
jkakarsinzui: The script we use to mark all bugs as 'Fix Released' and close a milestone operates on the project group, not individual projects.  All of a sudden, after the recent rollout we're getting a 500 error when the scripts tried to deactivate the milestone.23:07
sinzuijkakar: I can send you the script I use to do that23:08
jkakarsinzui: I *think* this behaviour worked before the rollout, but I could be mistaken, I know there's been some changes to our script recently.23:08
* sinzui looks23:08
sinzuijkakar: projectgroup milestones have never been in the database23:08
jkakarsinzui: That would be appreciated, thanks.23:08
jkakarsinzui: Okay.  So, do you think this is a bug?  It *feels* like a bug from a user experience point of view, but I can understand if the model doesn't necessarily explicitly provide project group milestones.23:09
sinzuino it is by design.23:09
jkakarsinzui: Okay, then I'll file a bug. :)23:09
sinzuijkakar: consider this...23:09
sinzuithe milestone names are a set create from all sub projects. we do not know if those milestones *are* the same. we are guessing.23:10
jkakarsinzui: Ah, I see.23:10
jkakarsinzui: So, I guess there's no way to "create a milestone" for a project group, either?23:10
sinzuijkakar: This nasty approach is also what prevents two series in a project to have the same milestone name. We are forcing projects to have unique milestones to improve our chances of guessing.23:12
jkakarsinzui: Okay, well I guess I won't file a bug, but will just mention that this is surprising and a bit suboptimal as far as user experience goes.23:12
sinzuijkakar: We all want that feature. It would be like carpetbombing all projects by creating series and milestones to accomplish its goal.23:12
jkakarsinzui: I think adding a comment on the project group view of a milestone that says "Edit this milestone for _project A_, _project B_ and _project C_" could help, with _project A_, etc. being links to the edit page.23:13
sinzuijkakar: We want to do, but we need to do it gracefully.23:13
sinzuijkakar: indeed that is a bug and one that we can fix this release.23:13
jkakarsinzui: Yeah, makes sense.  I'd rather live without it a bit longer while waiting for the graceful solution than doing something hasty that will make things more confusing. :)23:13
jkakarsinzui: Thanks for explaining the rationale behind the behaviour.23:14

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