[00:06] <seb128> hum
[00:07] <seb128> Amaranth, you probably means 9.10 in your blog post about plans for compiz?
[00:07] <Amaranth> seb128: No, old posts flooded it
[00:07] <seb128> oh ok
[00:07] <Amaranth> seb128: some of them are two years old, I don't blog much
[00:07] <Amaranth> Although sadly everything on that list is still not done
[00:07] <Amaranth> ENOTIME
[00:07] <seb128> ok, I was not sure if that was a blog error on a title one ;-)
[00:08] <Amaranth> I switched to movabletype and apparently even though it saved the ids for the posts in the import having a new feed URL made planet think they were new
[00:15] <robert_ancell> seb128, hey seb
[00:15] <seb128> hello robert_ancell
[00:15] <seb128> how are you?
[00:15] <robert_ancell> seb128, good, you're up late!
[00:16] <seb128> yes, I did some late debugging sessions and manage to shift my sleep cycle a bit again
[00:16] <seb128> it happens almost every cycle ;-)
[00:17] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - patch attached to bug 404924 now. i don't know if you're in sponsoring mood or if you want to wait until after beta ;)
[00:17] <robert_ancell> :) how is the cycle going for you?  It seems pretty stable
[00:17] <seb128> ie look at some issue until late, oversleep the next day, don't feel tired in the evening so go back to the computer at 11pm and start over again
[00:18] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - that's what i'm like every day
[00:18] <chrisccoulson> i could have fallen asleep at 2pm at work today
[00:18] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I will do sponsoring tomorrow, it's all beta frozen anyway
[00:18] <chrisccoulson> but by the time i get home, i'm not tired any more
[00:18] <seb128> robert_ancell, karmic seems in a good shape to me, what do you think?
[00:18] <seb128> https://edge.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=12698
[00:19] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah I haven't seen any major bugs to work on so been working on pushing patches upstream mostly
[00:19] <seb128> I've added some bugs to the list
[00:19] <seb128> urg
[00:19] <robert_ancell> all of those I look at seem to be worked on
[00:19] <seb128> bug #431953
[00:19] <seb128> bug #274915
[00:19] <seb128> bug #427118
[00:20] <seb128> robert_ancell, ^ you can look at those if you want
[00:20] <robert_ancell> ok, i'll take 437682 too
[00:20] <seb128> or the gdm keyboard selection issues
[00:20] <robert_ancell> bug 437682
[00:20] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - isn't bug 431953 reported upstream too?
[00:20] <seb128> robert_ancell, just add a comment or assign the bug to you if you start on it
[00:20] <chrisccoulson> i'm sure i saw a   bugzilla report on that
[00:20] <seb128> so we don't duplicate tasks
[00:20] <seb128> chrisccoulson, there is one about mirror making it crash
[00:20] <robert_ancell> yup, will do
[00:20] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
[00:21] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - thats the same issue isn't it?
[00:21] <seb128> chrisccoulson, bug #428351
[00:21] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh indeed
[00:21] <chrisccoulson> heh, yeah, they're the same ;)
[00:21] <seb128> the mirror one was not reported using apport so I didn't match the titles
[00:22] <chrisccoulson> we could just revert the commit that introduced that change. i'm not sure what issue the commit was trying to fix
[00:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you know what commit did that?
[00:23] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i can see where it crashes, and i can see the change that causes it
[00:23] <chrisccoulson> just looking for the git commit now though
[00:23] <seb128> ah good
[00:23] <seb128> I didn't look at the issue out of trying to get it crashing there
[00:23] <seb128> but it works fine on real install and kvm one
[00:24] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i can't get it to crash either
[00:24] <chrisccoulson> -ENOTENOUGHSCREENS
[00:24] <seb128> robert_ancell, you are welcome to look to bugs too to spot extra issues to milestone for karmic ;-)
[00:25] <seb128> I will keep doing that in the next days so you can watch the list daily too
[00:25] <robert_ancell> will keep an eye out :)
[00:25] <seb128> robert_ancell, also you can work on the recent 2.28.1 updates
[00:25] <seb128> ie the totem ones, and resync on debian maybe too
[00:25] <robert_ancell> oh were there some today?
[00:25] <seb128> we will get GNOME 2.28.1 in karmic so that's good to upload after beta
[00:26] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gnome-control-center/commit/?id=dc62815db2ea56cdb7ee6ca8b0953ef6e2774963
[00:26] <chrisccoulson> that's the one
[00:26] <seb128> chrisccoulson, could you add a comment on the bugs about that?
[00:26] <chrisccoulson> yeah, can do
[00:27] <seb128> chrisccoulson, the comment is clear on what it does though and it's useful
[00:27] <seb128> the preferred xrandr mode is not always the higher resolution one
[00:27] <chrisccoulson> yeah, makes sense
[00:28] <robert_ancell> seb128, do you know why people are releasing 2.28.1 versions? They're not due for 3 weeks
[00:28] <chrisccoulson> i might try and look at that then
[00:28] <seb128> lool opened a bug some time ago about that, the xrandr command line was not picking the same modes as g-s-d
[00:28] <chrisccoulson> i just wish i could recreate these crashes here ;)
[00:29] <seb128> robert_ancell, not really, I expect there was enough changes in git that the maintainer wanted to ship those so they get in distros and tested
[00:31] <chrisccoulson> i'll try and look at some more of the milestoned bugs tomorrow then
[00:31] <chrisccoulson> if robert_ancell hasn't fixed them all overnight ;)
[00:31] <seb128> I will try to add extra ones there ;-)
[00:32] <robert_ancell> err, I'll try...
[00:32] <seb128> robert_ancell, also the design guys who like to get no user selected in gdm by default
[00:32] <seb128> robert_ancell, see bug #410337
[00:33] <seb128> Amaranth started looked at it
[00:33] <seb128> if you are bored and want to give it a try, check with Amaranth first to not dup work though
[00:33] <seb128> robert_ancell, and the autologin issue is on your list too
[00:34] <seb128> I think that should be enough for you to have a busy day ;-)
[00:34] <robert_ancell> yeah, I looked into that yesterday. it looks tricky
[00:34] <seb128> I'm sure you wish you didn't ask for tasks now ;-)
[00:34] <robert_ancell> yeah, go to bed before you suggest any more please ;)
[00:34] <seb128> lol
[00:36] <chrisccoulson> the totem crash will probably keep you busy for a long time
[00:36] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: that gdm thing is infuriating, let me tell you
[00:36] <Amaranth> 95% of the work is going to be figuring out wtf is going on
[00:37] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, I find 95% of the work with GDM is constantly having to log out to test it :)_
[00:37] <seb128> I think we should just add a button otherwise which does the same than enter
[00:38] <seb128> robert_ancell, start your session using startx and run gdm by hand from there
[00:38] <seb128> robert_ancell, so you don't have to close your user session
[00:38] <Amaranth> seb128: But if you add a button should clicking once on the list select the item?
[00:38] <seb128> Amaranth, don't change the list behaviour
[00:38] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: Oh and you have to only have one user on your system to test it
[00:38] <robert_ancell> we shouldn't need a button
[00:38] <seb128> the complain they have is that it's not obvious what to do
[00:38] <Amaranth> no but the button may be easier
[00:38] <rickspencer3> *sigh*
[00:39] <seb128> doh, rick is back
[00:39] <Amaranth> Otherwise you have to figure out where the heck gdm is selecting that first entry
[00:39] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, I've been around that code, I'll have a look if you want
[00:39] <Amaranth> I thought it was the obvious call to select_if_only_one_user or whatever but no...
[00:39] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, did you see the bug report regarding gdm flashing on auto login?
[00:39] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: funny, I said the same thing before I wasted two hours :)
[00:40] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yeah, looked at it yesterday, seems tricky
[00:40] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, :)
[00:40] <robert_ancell> true
[00:40] <seb128> rickspencer3, btw remember that I told you that users seem confused by the pulseaudio new behaviour
[00:40] <rickspencer3> aaaah
[00:40] <rickspencer3> seb128, what came of that?
[00:41] <seb128> "    + 0090-disable-flat-volumes.patch: Many people seem uncomfortable
[00:41] <seb128>       with PA's new default volume adjustment routine, so disable it
[00:41] <seb128>       in favour of the existing behaviour known in previous Ubuntu"
[00:41] <rickspencer3> I would say it's too late
[00:41] <rickspencer3> that sounds very destabelizing
[00:41] <seb128> rickspencer3, Daniel did undo the behaviour
[00:41] <rickspencer3> ok
[00:41] <seb128> rickspencer3, that was one week ago, to let to object
[00:41] <rickspencer3> it's in the beta?
[00:41] <seb128> yers
[00:41] <seb128> yes
[00:41] <rickspencer3> okay ...
[00:41] <seb128> let -> late
[00:41] <rickspencer3> in general, we are shipping what is in the beta
[00:41]  * TheMuso reads backscroll re audio.
[00:42] <seb128> TheMuso, there is no real scrollback, I was just mentioning to rick some days ago that I wanted to check user feedback concerning flat volume
[00:42] <seb128> TheMuso, since we got quite some confused users bugs during the cycle
[00:42] <TheMuso> Ok
[00:42] <seb128> but seems daniel has been faster and changing the behaviour already
[00:43] <seb128> so it's all good
[00:43] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, this flashing GDM is more important than the new button on GDM
[00:43] <rickspencer3> imnsho
[00:43] <robert_ancell> ns>
[00:43] <robert_ancell> ns?
[00:43] <robert_ancell> not-so
[00:44] <rickspencer3> "not so"
[00:44] <seb128> ;-)
[00:44] <TheMuso> But eventually I think we will want flat volume, once uplse has a better handle on audio hardware/software, but I feel Daniel is in a better position to comment on that.
[00:44] <Amaranth> rickspencer3: does that mean I won't be able to get a bugfix only git snapshot of compiz? :)
[00:44] <rickspencer3> well, if we aren
[00:44] <rickspencer3> t updating to bugfix only git snapshots of X ;)
[00:45] <Amaranth> yeah but this is seriously bugfix only, not "we're rewrite this bit to fix a bug" :P
[00:46] <Amaranth> it goal is still to get an 0.8.4 final out soon so 0.8.3 stuff is purely fixing crashes and really bad issues like windows flying off the screen when you lower your screen resolution (projectors, anyone?)
[00:46] <Amaranth> err, the goal
[00:48] <TheMuso> So. Shall we do the eastern edition of the meeting?
[00:50] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, yes
[00:50] <robert_ancell> ready
[00:50] <rickspencer3> but now I only have 10 minutes :(
[00:50] <robert_ancell> lightning meeting
[00:50] <rickspencer3> let's cut the chase, I can follow up on the specific issues later with you guys
[00:51] <rickspencer3> essentially, what changes are coming to Karmic after beta?
[00:51] <rickspencer3> 1. Updated Compiz
[00:51]  * rickspencer3 quakes a little
[00:52] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, Amaranth - rather than just updating compiz, can we cherry pick specific patches for known bugs?
[00:52] <rickspencer3> would that decrease the risk of regressions
[00:52] <Amaranth> rickspencer3: all the changes are patches for known bugs
[00:52] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, any changes coming to pulse or accessability?
[00:52] <Amaranth> rickspencer3: upstream is reading launchpad and fixing the bugs there
[00:52] <rickspencer3> Amaranth, when will it be uploaded?
[00:53] <Amaranth> rickspencer3: I don't have upload rights so mvo usually makes the snapshots
[00:53] <Amaranth> rickspencer3: Want to talk to upstream to see about an 0.8.4 release again too
[00:53] <rickspencer3> ok, I think I should defer to pitti and the release process
[00:53] <rickspencer3> apply for an exception, etc...
[00:53] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, does that make sense?
[00:54] <robert_ancell> based on what I know, yes.  Amaranth is more of an expert here
[00:54] <robert_ancell> or do you mean regarding release process?  We'll just push the changes into the BZR branch then ask for the exception before uploading
[00:55] <rickspencer3> well, pitti is the tech lead *and* he's on the release team, so I would suggest following up with him
[00:55] <Amaranth> will do
[00:55] <rickspencer3> but if it is truly a release that is a set of Karmic specific patches, seems likely that we would take it
[00:55] <robert_ancell> so mvo or Amaranth or I can make the proposed update.  We ask for the exception as part of the upload process
[00:56] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: One patch that fixes a crash for pulse, and fixing issues with gdm accessible login and any last minute fixes needed for the installer+accessibility/live cd integratino. They are on my testing agenda for the next couple of days during CD image testing, and friday.
[00:56] <rickspencer3> yeah, I think you log a bug and subscribe tehe releast team or something
[00:56] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, great
[00:56] <rickspencer3> those sound like bug fixes and not too risky
[00:57] <robert_ancell> So, open a bug "update to 0.8.4". Note it needs an exception. Ping pitti, once exception approved subscribe main-sponsors
[00:57] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, note that TheMuso if working on GDM accessability, a good reason not to change the UI now
[00:57] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I *think* so, but not 100% certain
[00:57] <rickspencer3> sorry, I am so lame
[00:57] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: It will likely be more along the lines of getting it working, not so much getting around, but I will test for that as well.
[00:57] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, that is how we did the previous snapshots
[00:57] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, great
[00:57] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: oh and possibly some fixes for speech-dispatcher to fix an alsa output code crash, and hopeful optimizations for pulse use, but that doesn't look likely.
[00:58] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, I will ping you before we upload any GDM changes so you can review
[00:58] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, are you saying that GDM is not accessible atm?
[00:58] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: What I am saying is that users cannot successfully enable gdm accessibility, due to files etc not being in place correctly.
[00:59] <TheMuso> This was brought to my attention in the last few days so I need to get it fixed.
[00:59] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, is that tracked somewhere?
[00:59] <rickspencer3> ok, so no changes to GDM, it's all configuration?
[00:59] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Probably no changes to gdm, but not sure at this point.
[00:59] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: No bugs yet, but I intend to file one once I know whats going on.
[00:59] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, ok, please subscribe me when you open
[00:59] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Sure.
[00:59] <rickspencer3> This is why I am asking that we minimize changes to very important ones
[01:00] <rickspencer3> I don't want us putting lipstick on a pig while there are serious issues not being addressed

[01:00] <TheMuso> heh
[01:00] <rickspencer3> ok, I have to run to a call
[01:01] <TheMuso> ok
[01:01] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, are you going to be working on the gdm flashing bug today?
[01:01] <robert_ancell> later
[01:01] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yes
[01:01] <rickspencer3> do you guys need anything from me? any questions, or blocking issues?
[01:01] <robert_ancell> no
[01:01] <TheMuso> nope
[01:01] <rickspencer3> k
[01:02] <rickspencer3> you guys rock
[01:02] <rickspencer3> we are on the path to a really sweet release
[01:02] <seb128> rickspencer3, can I go to bed now? ;-)
[01:02] <rickspencer3> thanks for all you guys do
[01:02] <rickspencer3> seb128, lol
[01:02] <TheMuso> thanks
[01:02] <rickspencer3> was I keeping you up?
[01:02] <seb128> nothing ;-)
[01:02] <seb128> I'm about to go ;-)
[01:03] <seb128> I just wanted to see an eastern edition meeting since I was around
[01:04] <rickspencer3> seb128, they are usually much more oragnized
[01:05] <seb128> yeahyeah
[01:05] <rickspencer3> heh
[01:05] <rickspencer3> g'nigh seb128
[01:05] <seb128> 'night ;-)
[01:05] <chrisccoulson> good night seb128
[01:15] <TheMuso> /c/c
[01:15] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: When gdm runs, does it load apps that have a desktop file in /etc/xdg/autostart?
[01:15] <TheMuso> I know gnome-session does, but am not sure about gdm.
[01:16] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, not sure.  I does run a gnome-session though I think?
[01:16] <robert_ancell> It does
[01:18] <chrisccoulson> TheMuso - it runs autostart files from a different folder
[01:18] <chrisccoulson> i'll try and find it
[01:18] <chrisccoulson> /usr/share/gdm/autostart/LoginWindow
[01:18] <chrisccoulson> gdm passes that as an argument to gnome-session
[01:18] <chrisccoulson> and it loads the session from there
[01:21] <TheMuso> chrisccoulson: I knew about that one, just waqsn't sure whether etc/xdg/autostart was also used, thanks.
[01:21] <chrisccoulson> TheMuso - no, it's not used
[01:22] <TheMuso> Ok thanks.
[01:43] <ArneGoetje> asac: what broken country code langpack?
[01:59] <ccheney> rickspencer3: hi :)
[01:59] <ccheney> rickspencer3: closed today on my house
[02:00] <rickspencer3> ccheney, congrats
[02:00] <rickspencer3> a long time coming
[02:00] <ccheney> yea been trying to get a new place for ~ 2.5 months now, heh
[02:00] <ccheney> moving tomorrow and thursday and hopefully back to work on friday
[02:11] <jcastro>  hey, are we totally jettisoning HAL for karmic?
[02:11] <jcastro> or will there be a fallback thing for apps that haven't moved to devicekit?
[02:51] <rickspencer3-afk> jcastro, I believe the halectomy will not be complete for Karmic
[02:51] <rickspencer3-afk> but pitti would have all kinds of details
[02:52] <rickspencer3-afk> there is a wiki page somewhere with the progress
[05:17] <albasheers1> how to check video ram size
[05:18] <albasheers1> anybody here
[05:34] <mac_v> tedg: hi , regarding Bug #436724  , fix committed in the sense , greying out the option?
[05:35] <tedg> mac_v: Correct.  It's in trunk.
[05:35] <mac_v> tedg: could you atleast provide a gconf setting?
[05:35] <mac_v> to revert this?
[05:35] <mac_v> waiting for 6 months to get this fixed :(
[05:36] <tedg> mac_v: The Lucid archives will open sooner than that ;)
[05:36] <mac_v> tedg: but what about the regualar users?
[05:37] <mac_v> those who dont use beta
[05:37] <mac_v> or alpha
[05:37] <tedg> The ones that accidentally lock their screen but don't know their passwords?  Those regular users?  They'll be safe.
[05:38] <mac_v> ;p the rest of the ones who want the option
[05:38] <mac_v> ?
[05:39] <tedg> Making it a gconf key doesn't help regular users either.  The solution that helps regular users is putting it in the appropriate control panel.  But it's too late for that for Karmic.
[05:40] <mac_v> tedg: i'm not saying this is the best solution. what mpt suggested is the right way to do it... but since it is not possible for now , we could do it using gconf
[05:40] <mac_v> then for lucid get it fixed properly
[05:41] <mac_v> we already have one option here > /apps/indicator-session
[05:41] <mac_v> adding another option for this lock screen would be nice ;)
[05:42] <mac_v> have it disabled by default ,and if users want it back they can select it from there
[05:42] <tedg> I'm not dead set against it, but it probably won't make my priority list.
[05:43] <tedg> I feel like it's in a safe place now, not ideal, but safe.  So it's okay to wait for Lucid on making it ideal.
[05:44] <tedg> But, no matter what, it's past my bedtime :)
[05:44] <tedg> 'night folks!
[05:44] <mac_v> tedg: nite
[06:51] <didrocks> Good morning
[06:53] <didrocks> TheMuso: hey o/ you're probably already aware with this kind of issue but for laptop with more than one speaker (for instance, a bass bummer), the new pulseaudio device doesn't seem to allow to set up it right (ie: main volume--, PCM++ <- noisy sound, LFE++ <- too low ;)). I have to use alsamixer bump touching again the volume scratch those values.
[06:58] <al-maisan> Good morning
[06:58] <didrocks> hey al-maisan
[06:59] <al-maisan> hello didrocks :)
[06:59] <pitti> Good morning
[07:00] <pitti> jcastro: we need to keep hal in the default install for karmic since X still needs it for input devices
[07:01] <pitti> jcastro: I'm quite positive that we can drop it from the default install in lucid; however, we'll keep the package around, there are still lots of software which uses it
[07:01] <didrocks> hey pitti
[07:02]  * kenvandine needs to start going to bed before pitti gets up
[07:02] <pitti> kenvandine: hehe, sleep well :)
[07:02] <kenvandine> hehe
[07:02] <kenvandine> time to crash, good night!
[07:18] <TheMuso> didrocks: I am somewhat aware of similar, however you're better off talking to dtchen, as he has a better understanding of that suff than I do.
[07:19] <didrocks> TheMuso: ok, thanks a lot, I'll forward my request/question :)
[07:20] <didrocks> dtchen: ^ (about my request to TheMuso, 15 lines above)
[09:06] <seb128> hello there
[09:07] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128
[09:07] <seb128> dpm, hey, do you think you could contact translators about some ubuntu strings to translate they might not notice otherwise?
[09:07] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> yeah, good thanks. and you?
[09:08] <seb128> tired but good
[09:08] <pitti> hey seb128
[09:08] <seb128> I stayed way to late, I was about to go to bed at 1:45am when people pinged me about xsplash on unr
[09:08] <pitti> good morning chrisccoulson
[09:09] <seb128> I crashed at 2:30am, dunno if people managed to fix that during the night
[09:09] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:09] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you too?
[09:09] <seb128> mvo, update-manager asking 2 passwords, one for install and one for upgrade ... known issue?
[09:09] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - you had quite a late night then ;)
[09:09] <seb128> yeah
[09:09] <seb128> and I woke up at 8am today
[09:09] <chrisccoulson> i bet you're looking forward to the weekend to catch up on sleep
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> heh, i woke up at 755 this morning, and i have to be at work for 8am;)
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> i never arrive on time though
[09:10] <seb128> I managed to get breakfast outside and go look for some shopping
[09:11] <seb128> hey njpatel
[09:12] <seb128> dpm, wb
[09:12] <seb128> dpm, did you read my question before?
[09:12] <dpm> :)
[09:12] <dpm> I saw it
[09:12] <seb128> ok, cool
[09:12] <dpm> yeah, let me know which strings or src pkgs
[09:12] <njpatel> seb128: hey hey
[09:14] <seb128> dpm, empathy "Use message indicators"
[09:14] <didrocks> hey seb128 o/
[09:16] <dpm> seb128: ok, I'll let them know. Any other ones?
[09:16] <seb128> dpm, looking, there is some evolution ones too
[09:16] <mvo> seb128: yes
[09:17] <mvo> seb128: could you still please file a bug against aptdaemon?
[09:18] <seb128> dpm, evolution
[09:18] <seb128> "When displaying messages:"
[09:18] <seb128> "For deleted mail:"
[09:18] <seb128> dpm, that's the ones I spotted while doing beta testing
[09:19] <seb128> dpm, the thing is that those are distro changes in software translated in GNOME
[09:19] <seb128> I know the french translators will not look to GNOME software on rosetta usually
[09:19] <seb128> since they want to get the work done upstream for those
[09:19] <seb128> other teams probably do the same
[09:20] <seb128> so it would be good to just let them know they have those few to do on rosetta for ubuntu
[09:20] <seb128> dpm, thanks
[09:20] <seb128> mvo, sure
[09:20] <seb128> mvo, bug #437094 in fact
[09:20] <seb128> mvo, bug #437094 in fact
[09:20] <seb128> ups
[09:21] <mvo> cool, thanks
[09:24] <dpm> seb128: yeah, announcing new strings to translate in the ubuntu-translators ML usually gets a good response. Do you think it might be possible to find out the strings changed/added in the distro in some sort of automated way and create something like a report I could then send to the list?
[09:24] <seb128> dpm, not easily I would say
[09:25] <dpm> ok, thanks
[09:30] <seb128> mvo, is there any way to make ie common crashers in update-manager be on your rader?
[09:30] <seb128> radar
[09:30] <mvo> seb128: which one is this?
[09:30] <seb128> mvo, bug #435838 has several duplicate
[09:31] <seb128> mvo, sorry I've been looking to the update-manager bug list for the password thing and I'm cleaning now ;-)
[09:32] <mvo> seb128: heh :) thanks. I have a look, I though it was a dup of another one (releated to syslog not being availabe) but this seems to be a different one
[09:33] <seb128> mvo, you might want to fix bug #436428 too for karmic
[09:33] <mvo> seb128: yeah, this one is on my list as well
[09:33] <seb128> bug #436159 in fact
[09:33] <seb128> I dup the other one
[09:34] <mvo> I'm considering moving back to synaptic as the u-m backend for karmic and do the switch aptdaemon for u-m in lucid
[09:34] <seb128> mvo, ok, I've annoyed you enough for today, I go triage my packages now ;-)
[09:36] <mvo> seb128: not at all, I'm thankful for you help with the triage
[09:36]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[09:38] <seb128> didrocks, do you know about bug #438792?
[09:38] <seb128> didrocks, do you know about bug #438792?
[09:38] <seb128> ups
[09:42] <didrocks> seb128: hum no, it was working on my box. As I cleaned it few days ago, I can give some test on it
[09:43] <seb128> didrocks, ok, thanks
[09:43] <Amaranth> morning
[09:43] <seb128> the 2.28 update might fix it
[09:43] <seb128> hey Amaranth
[09:49] <didrocks> seb128: huats is on the update from a long time already... do I try it?
[09:50] <seb128> didrocks, yes
[09:50] <didrocks> maybe I didn't installed properly the new gdl version when I tested it. Dunno what happened :/
[09:52] <seb128> didrocks, the valgrind log seems to indicate an anjuta issue
[09:52] <didrocks> seb128: it was just a rebuild for new libgdl version
[09:52] <didrocks> so a symbol mismatched
[09:53] <didrocks> strange that it crashed in /usr/lib/anjuta/libanjuta-symbol-db.so
[09:57] <mpt> mvo, if danilo helped me today with the work to make software-center help pages translatable, would that be mergable after beta? Or is post-beta only for things more critical than that?
[09:57] <mvo> mpt: I think we need to ask slangasek for this, I personally would say its ok as its very low risk of regression, but it will add a lot of strings to the template again
[09:58] <mvo> mpt: I think it only makes sense if we can ship updates via langpacks, not sure this is currently possible with po4a (I assume this is what is going to be used?)
[09:59] <mpt> mvo, I don't know what's going to be used, it's all magic to me at the moment
[10:03] <Amaranth> bug 439096 makes me really sad :(
[10:03] <mvo> Amaranth: *urgh* what video cards?
[10:03] <Amaranth> mvo: nvidia of course
[10:04] <Amaranth> it ran out of memory
[10:04] <chrisccoulson1> Amaranth - i thought that was an old issue, fixed now?
[10:04] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson1: apparently not
[10:04] <Amaranth> oh, this guy has a 6600
[10:04] <Amaranth> so legacy driver, probably doesn't have that fix
[10:04] <mvo> *sigh*
[10:04] <chrisccoulson1> if he's using a legacy driver, then it won't have the fix
[10:05] <Amaranth> no, he is using 185
[10:05] <chrisccoulson1> but the latest drivers should work with that card shouldn't they?
[10:05] <Amaranth> maybe they just didn't fix it for older cards
[10:05] <chrisccoulson1> he's using the latest driver
[10:05] <chrisccoulson1> i hate nvidia
[10:05] <Amaranth> +1
[10:07] <Amaranth> apparently 64MB VRAM isn't enough
[10:16] <mac_v> dobey: i'v added the U1 icons but rejected the merge , since *most* of the icons had to be redone
[10:21] <chrisccoulson1> Amaranth - yeah, I don't know if 64MB is enough or not - my card has 512MB ;)
[10:21] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson1: I believe I originally set it to 128 or 256
[10:22] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson1: can you pastebin the output of `nvidia-settings -q all`?
[10:22] <Amaranth> need to see what I should be asking this guy
[10:22] <chrisccoulson1> Amaranth - i can't at the moment, as I'm at work
[10:23] <Amaranth> ah
[10:23]  * Amaranth checks #compiz
[10:23] <chrisccoulson1> heh, i probably should be doing some work really
[10:23] <chrisccoulson1> it's more interesting on here though ;)
[10:28] <hyperair> is there something wrong with network-manager? it won't allow me to set a static ip
[10:28] <hyperair> such a pain
[10:28] <hyperair> where does networkmanager store its config files anyway
[10:30] <pitti> TheMuso: hm, in 9 cases out of 10 my speakers are set to mute after boot; is that known?
[11:05]  * hyperair pokes asac 
[11:09] <asac> hyperair: in gconf or in /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections
[11:09] <hyperair> asac: i see. well anyway nm-connection-editor segfaults when trying to create a wired connection with static ip
[11:10] <hyperair> that's when it's marked available to all users
[11:10] <hyperair> when it's not, the setting just doesn't enter gconf
[11:11] <asac> let me test
[11:14] <asac> yes. the ipv4 settings have a problem as it seems. but i cannot reproduce the crash
[11:15] <mat_t> Hi all
[11:15] <mat_t> pitti: do you know if this bug is on anyone's radar? https://bugs.launchpad.net/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/418703
[11:16] <pitti> mat_t: if it's not assigned, then not
[11:16] <pitti> tseliot: ^ is it on your's?
[11:16]  * tseliot has a look at the bug report
[11:18] <tseliot> mat_t: do you have a screenshot of the problem?
[11:19] <tseliot> or, even better, a video?
[11:19] <mat_t> tseliot: not really, it would rather have to be a video
[11:19] <mat_t> :)
[11:19] <mat_t> I can try and capture it
[11:19] <tseliot> great
[11:19] <mat_t> cool, let me try :)
[11:21] <tseliot> pitti: our discussion on X will have to be postponed as I can't access freedesktop (and the source, etc.)
[11:21] <pitti> tseliot: I know, I also tried to reach cgit this morning
[11:21] <tseliot> ok
[11:24] <Amaranth> I actually starting messing with my modem and router yesterday because I thought not getting to freedesktop.org meant my connection was messed up :P
[11:25] <Amaranth> Someone must have linked to cgit from osnews or slashdot or something
[11:35] <mpt> Can anyone give me some examples offhand of applications that have both a GTK and a Qt version in the Ubuntu repositories? Qalculate is one
[11:37] <james_w> jockey?
[11:37] <mpt> that's another good example
[11:39] <mpt> GDebi is another
[11:42] <mat_t> tseliot: attached the video
[11:44] <chrisccoulson> pah, bug 376145 is really depressing now
[11:44] <mat_t> tseliot: thoughts?
[11:46] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ogra reopened it, still happening on arm
[11:46] <pitti> but a pain to reproduce now, I don't know anyone else whom it happens for..
[11:46] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm not sure the bug ever really went away tbh, do you think this is another oddity with dbus activation?
[11:46] <chrisccoulson> the trace certainly suggests that
[11:46] <pitti> chrisccoulson: most probably, yes
[11:47] <chrisccoulson> i'm starting to think we should patch gdu to call org.freedesktop.DBus.StartServiceByName on devicekit-disks, and wait for it to appear on the bus before doing anything else
[11:47] <chrisccoulson> as a workaround;)
[11:48] <pitti> we could, but it still sounds wrong; if there's a general problem with d-bus activation, it'll hit other things as well
[11:48] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's true
[11:49] <pitti> perhaps we shuold add a sleep 5 to the activation code
[11:49] <pitti> to see whether that reproduces the issue
[11:49] <hyperair> asac: well, if it get's fixed, maybe the crash will as well. hopefully
[11:49] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, that's probably a good starting point
[11:50] <chrisccoulson> that's what i did with system-tools-backends
[11:50] <tseliot> mat_t: maybe this patch can help: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/intel-gfx/2009-May/002433.html
[11:51] <pitti> tseliot: nice
[11:52] <tseliot> pitti, mat_t: I think I can put it in a PPA for testing
[11:52] <Amaranth> seb128: I've got someone saying metacity has the same problem with polkit dialogs
[11:53] <Amaranth> Which would explain why I can't find anything in the metacity source code that would handle this case
[11:54] <mat_t> tseliot: great, let's try that
[11:55] <tseliot> ok
[11:56] <cassidy> seb128, hey. Would be good to sync https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-gabble/+bug/439266
[11:57] <seb128> cassidy, we are frozen for alpha
[11:57] <asac> hyperair: i dont see the crash for some reason. which applet package version?
[11:57] <cassidy> seb128, but packages can still be updated after the alpha release, right ?
[11:57] <seb128> cassidy, yes, but they need a feature freeze exception
[11:58] <cassidy> even for bug fixes release?
[11:58] <seb128> no
[11:58] <cassidy> this is a bug fix release :)
[11:58] <seb128> can you open a bug or ping me again after freeze?
[11:58] <cassidy> 0.8.x is stable
[11:58] <seb128> I can't sync now it would bypass the freeze queue
[11:58] <cassidy> bug is opened, I'll reping you later
[11:58] <seb128> and I will probably have forgotten next week
[11:59] <seb128> ok thanks
[12:00] <seb128> brb
[12:01] <hyperair> asac: 0.8~a~git.20090923t220421.1ac8ffd-0ubuntu4
[12:01] <seb128> cassidy, can you give me the bug number?
[12:01] <seb128> just for reference
[12:01] <pitti> seb128: you can upload, it'll just stay in the queue
[12:01] <cassidy> seb128,  439266
[12:02] <pitti> but fix only doesn't need FFE by definition, yes (but still the changes should be reasonable, of couse)
[12:02] <seb128> pitti, it's a sync, I was not sure if that would bypass the queue
[12:02] <pitti> seb128: oh, that will
[12:02] <seb128> ok, so I wont "upload" ;-)
[12:03] <seb128> cassidy, thanks
[12:03] <asac> hyperair: kk
[12:03] <asac> hyperair: and libnm-glib2 is also latest?
[12:04] <hyperair> asac: just upgraded.
[12:04] <hyperair> it wasn't before, i suppose
[12:04] <asac> hyperair: maybe some crashes go away now?
[12:06] <tseliot> pitti, mat_t: xserver-xorg-video-intel (2:2.8.1-1ubuntu2~xtesting2) is in my PPA. You will have to grab the deb package manually when it's built: https://launchpad.net/~albertomilone/+archive/x-testing/
[12:06] <mat_t> tseliot: awesome, thanks!
[12:06] <tseliot> mat_t: let me know how it goes
[12:06] <hyperair> asac: lemme try
[12:06] <mat_t> tseliot: will do
[12:07] <tseliot> thanks
[12:07] <hyperair> asac: still segfault
[12:07]  * Amaranth waits patiently for debs with backlight support :)
[12:08] <asac> hyperair: thats the "gtk_label_set.." crash?
[12:08] <hyperair> Amaranth: your backlight not working either?
[12:08] <Amaranth> hyperair: stuck on 100%
[12:08] <hyperair> asac: yes it is
[12:09] <asac> hyperair: can you install -dbgsym packages for network-manager-gnome and check?
[12:09] <Amaranth> hyperair: unless I turn KMS off
[12:09] <asac> ah
[12:09] <hyperair> Amaranth: that sucks. does xbacklight work?
[12:09] <hyperair> asac: i saw gtk_label_set somewhere up the backtrace
[12:10] <Amaranth> hyperair: no because that isn't implemented yet :)
[12:10] <Amaranth> hyperair: well it is but we don't have it
[12:10] <hyperair> O_o
[12:10] <hyperair> but xbacklight works for me..
[12:10] <Amaranth> hyperair: because your panel itself supports it
[12:10] <hyperair> ah
[12:11] <Amaranth> hyperair: for some panels the intel driver has to change a register
[12:11] <hyperair> i see..
[12:11] <hyperair> what a pain.
[12:11] <Amaranth> this only recently got ported to the KMS code and exported in such a way for xbacklight to use it
[12:12] <hyperair> i see.
[12:12] <hyperair> hmm i suppose my backlight buttons are a similar case (except that they haven't been ported yet)
[12:13] <Amaranth> nah, your buttons just need to be hooked up so gpm can call xbacklight
[12:13] <Amaranth> for me the buttons always work but in KMS mode gpm can't do anything with them
[12:15] <hyperair> my buttons work without KMS
[12:15] <hyperair> some acpi event or something that doesn't come through when KMS is enabled
[12:20] <tseliot> mat_t: the package is ready
[12:20] <mvo> asac: oh, you got a gtk_label_set crash? I have something similar in gdebi (pygtk)
[12:26] <mat_t> tseliot: great, will try it in a sec
[12:51] <TheMuso> pitti: afaik dtchen knows about it and is looking into it.
[13:26] <mat_t> tseliot: got the package, but can't install - apparently I've got a newer version already
[13:29] <tseliot> mat_t: try with dpkg -i
[13:32] <istaz> kenvandine: seb128: hi! if you are not going to use telepathy-butterfly 0.5.1, you should probably at least backport this patch : http://git.collabora.co.uk/?p=telepathy-butterfly.git;a=commitdiff;h=21fac708ea2ac6a76df77921cc252cad7521a500 otherwhise the status will always be "hidden" on MSN
[13:33] <pitti> TheMuso: thanks
[13:33] <seb128> istaz, thanks
[13:36] <seb128> doh, telepathy-butterfly is crash land
[13:38] <istaz> seb128: it seem apport show crash dialog on certain error even if telepathy-butterfly doesn't crash
[13:38] <chrisccoulson> acording to my girlfriend, empathy in general is crash land right now. she's been whining at me this morning saying it keeps crashing for her
[13:38] <istaz> and the papyon libs we use generate a lot of error
[13:38] <mat_t> tseliot: what would be the exact command? (you're talking to a terminal-agnostic here ;)
[13:39] <seb128> istaz, right, it report bugs about any python error
[13:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did she sent a crash using apport?
[13:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, all the crash could be one issue easy to fix
[13:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, what protocols is she using?
[13:40] <tseliot> mat_t: "cd path_to_the_dir_with_the_deb_package" then type: "sudo dpkg -i xserver-xorg-video-intel_2.8.1-1ubuntu2~xtesting2_i386.deb"
[13:40] <istaz> seb128: if you aren't going to use the webcam the support of butterfly I wonder if it wouldn't be better to use telepathy-haze for karmic as it is more relaible and less-crashy
[13:40] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i keep trying to get her to send a crash report, but she just pesters me instead
[13:40] <chrisccoulson> she's using MSN and also facebook (through telepathy-haze)
[13:40] <seb128> istaz, ok, thanks for the hint
[13:40] <seb128> pitti, ^
[13:40] <istaz> but it would make the migration harder once you decide to use butterfly as the user would have to recreate their account
[13:41] <seb128> hum
[13:41] <pitti> bad news
[13:41] <mat_t> tseliot: thanks! :)
[13:41] <tseliot> :-)
[13:47] <mat_t> pitti: this bug does seem to be fixed now https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/61237
[13:48] <Amaranth> I've solved the polkit problem and I didn't even have to patch compiz
[13:48] <Amaranth> !(class=Polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1)
[13:48] <Amaranth> Yes, I'm cheating
[13:48] <mat_t> pitti: can you confirm that?
[13:49] <pitti> mat_t: producing a test directory here..
[13:50] <mat_t> pitti: I couldn't reproduce it anymore
[13:51] <pitti> mat_t: I can
[13:51] <mat_t> tseliot: nope, that didn't help :(
[13:51] <pitti> the list view is completely taken by the folder list
[13:51] <mat_t> pitti: what are the steps?
[13:51] <pitti> there is no space to drop a new file into the folder list without hitting a dir
[13:51] <pitti> mat_t: I did it like this:
[13:51] <pitti> mkdir /tmp/test
[13:51] <pitti> cd /tmp/test
[13:51] <tseliot> mat_t: ok, I'll look for something else when freedesktop in online again
[13:51] <pitti> for i in `seq 150`; do mkdir dir$i; done
[13:51] <seb128> pitti, what are you talking about?
[13:51] <pitti> open /tmp/test in nautilus
[13:52] <mat_t> tseliot: ok, thanks!
[13:52] <pitti> ctrl+2 to select list view
[13:52] <pitti> seb128: bug 61237
[13:52] <seb128> pitti, you are working on fixing it?
[13:52] <seb128> pitti, btw the setting look weird
[13:52] <seb128> it's easy to workaround, doesn't affect the default view (icons)
[13:52] <pitti> seb128: no, mat_t asked me whether I can reproduce
[13:53] <seb128> and there since warty
[13:53] <pitti> yes, nothing that concerns me
[13:53] <pitti> you can go up a folder and drop it there
[13:53] <pitti> or change view
[13:53] <Zdra> chrisccoulson, real crash? or just apport pretending butterfly crash but in fact it's just python exception it catched and everything is continuing happily?
[13:53] <pitti> it's not immediately clear how to fix it
[13:53] <pitti> you'd have to keep some portion of the window empty just for that
[13:53] <chrisccoulson> Zdra - i don't know until I get home
[13:53] <seb128> well as usual, bugs which are there since warty and annoying have not been fixed for a reason
[13:54] <pitti> *nod*
[13:54] <chrisccoulson> (or until I can persuade her to actually submit a crash reprot)
[13:54] <mat_t> pitti: ok, let me try that
[13:55] <seb128> mat_t, well just open any dir where you have enough files or dirs to need to scroll vertically
[13:55] <seb128> mat_t, and use the list view too
[13:56] <seb128> brb
[13:58] <mat_t> seb128: pitti: yeah, I don't see any issues
[13:58] <seb128> what do you mean?
[13:59] <mat_t> pitti: I'm in the list view, got 10 empty subfolders and am dragging a file between them (and their parent folder) without any problems
[13:59] <seb128> the issue is that you don't have an empty space to click to start a selection
[13:59] <seb128> or to dnd something to the current directory
[13:59] <Amaranth> seb128: bug 436852 is fixed :)
[13:59] <seb128> Amaranth, excellent ;-)
[14:00] <Amaranth> ugly hack but it works
[14:00] <mat_t> seb128: do you mean emtpy space for selecting multiple folders/files?
[14:00] <seb128> yes
[14:00] <mat_t> aaah
[14:00] <seb128> or drop dropping something
[14:00] <mat_t> I see now
[14:00] <seb128> or for dropping something
[14:00] <Amaranth> Now polkit authenticate windows can always steal focus but that's close enough to how metacity works that it isn't important
[14:00] <mat_t> yes, so it is an issue still - really annoying indeed
[14:00] <seb128> you can't drop a file anywhere in the viewed dir
[14:03] <mat_t> seb128: one solution would be to only be able to drop into sub-dir when you hover over the dir icon
[14:03] <seb128> right
[14:04] <seb128> that's not how the list widget works though and would require not trivial hacking probably
[14:04] <seb128> ie creating a custom widget for nautilus rather than using the gtk one
[14:05] <mat_t> seb128: right
[14:06] <mat_t> seb128: we should keep it as critical papercut (even though it's not a papercut), so that it doesn't fall off the radar
[14:06] <andreasn> mpt, ping
[14:06] <mat_t> seb128: we'll work on proposing a solution for Lucid
[14:06] <seb128> you handle your hundredpapercut settings as you want
[14:06] <seb128> ok
[14:06] <seb128> I guess suggesting a change will be easy
[14:06] <seb128> what will not be easy is to find somebody to do the changes
[14:07] <seb128> as it's probably too much work for an hundredpapercut
[14:07] <mat_t> seb128: exactly, but we should start from a good solution
[14:07] <seb128> ie a custom widget would be at least one day of work for somebody knowing what he's doing
[14:07] <mat_t> that's not too bad
[14:08] <seb128> well, knowing that we often have difficulties to find one hour to work on a bug
[14:08] <seb128> and that we don't have people knowing well nautilus
[14:08] <seb128> I think it will be likely that we will have difficulties to find somebody for that, but it's worth a try yes
[14:09] <mpt> Amaranth, is that change one that should be reverted after <https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=596260> is fixed (or before, for anyone testing the fix)?
[14:09] <Amaranth> mpt: yes
[14:09] <Amaranth> mpt: It won't hurt to leave it in if you're testing the fix but we won't need it anymore
[14:09] <mpt> Amaranth, maybe you could put that in the bug report for anyone trying to test it?
[14:10] <mpt> Amaranth, i.e. specify exactly how to revert the workaround before testing it
[14:11] <Amaranth> mpt: Is there a launchpad bug for that upstream one?
[14:11] <mpt> Amaranth, bug 433851
[14:13] <Amaranth> i'll just link them all up
[14:14] <Amaranth> actually, no
[14:19] <mpt> thanks Amaranth
[14:24] <didrocks>     - gdb: Fix link of test program
[14:24] <didrocks>     - sourceview: Report error when location is > 0 for markers
[14:24] <didrocks>     - terminal: Terminal does not work
[14:24] <didrocks> oupsss, sorry, wrong paste :/
[14:25]  * didrocks hate putty and right click
[14:27] <seb128> chrisccoulson, didn't you said you had a g-s-d change to get sponsored? you didn't put it in bzr?
[14:27] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - it's a libxklavier change
[14:27] <seb128> oh
[14:27] <chrisccoulson> and it's just attached to the bug report for now, as it's not in bzr
[14:27] <seb128> ok, makes sense
[14:27] <chrisccoulson> but i could put it there ;)
[14:27] <seb128> sorry for the noise ;-)
[14:27] <chrisccoulson> that's ok:)
[14:27] <seb128> don't bother
[14:28] <seb128> libxklavier is likely syncable on debian quite often
[14:28] <seb128> so having a bzr would rather give extra work
[14:28] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's true
[14:28] <chrisccoulson> i should probably send our current patches to debian actually, seeing as there hasn't been a new release for a little while
[14:29] <seb128> would be nice indeed
[14:29] <Laney> seb128: did we break tomboy translations too?
[14:29] <seb128> Laney, looking to the build log one sec
[14:30] <seb128> Laney, yes
[14:30] <Laney> urgh
[14:30] <seb128> Laney, thanks for spotting this one ;-)
[14:30] <Laney> abstraction urgently required
[14:30] <seb128> people not moving to other rules system for no good reason required ;-)
[14:32] <Laney> :(
[14:33] <seb128> but troll aside you are right
[14:33] <seb128> do you think you could do the same change for tomboy?
[14:33] <Laney> yes
[14:33] <seb128> do you want a bug + patch for that one too?
[14:33] <Laney> i didnt see your first bug
[14:34] <Laney> will someone merge tomboy? It's currently 0ubuntu1
[14:34] <seb128> Laney, debian bug #549019
[14:34] <Laney> ah thanks my mailbox just hadnt refreshed it yet
[14:34] <seb128> Laney, not that I know about, you are welcome to work on that if you want
[14:35] <Laney> i'll try
[14:35] <seb128> thanks
[14:35] <Laney> seb128: don't we need to clean *.pot too?
[14:35] <seb128> Laney, I couldn't try since f-spot clean target is busted
[14:36] <Laney> hm
[14:36] <seb128> doing a second debuild breaks with things which can't be diffed there
[14:36] <Laney> autoreconf in build sucks
[14:36] <seb128> but yeah, you might want to add a -rm po/f-spot.pot
[14:36] <seb128> to the clean
[14:36] <Laney> sure
[14:48] <dobey> mac_v: cool, thanks
[14:49] <seb128> Laney, hum, did you say that you will do the same changes to tomboy without the need to open a bug or do you want one?
[14:50] <Laney> seb128: I'll remember to do it at the same time
[14:50] <seb128> Laney, thanks!
[14:50] <Laney> i'll do it today if i get some of this report written
[14:55] <seb128> pitti, what iso is the current one? did we have new desktop ones today?
[14:55] <pitti> seb128: tracker is up to date; no, not today
[14:56] <pitti> 29.2 is still current
[14:56] <seb128> pitti, ok, good, I though you were discussing tracker issues before
[14:56] <seb128> so I figured I would ask
[14:56] <pitti> and testing is pretty much done, so this will be _the_ beta image with 99% probability
[14:56] <pitti> yes, some troubles with server
[14:57] <seb128> pitti, ok, good, so I can queue uploads for after beta now ;-)
[14:57] <pitti> yes, you can do that anyway
[14:57] <pitti> I'm already doing that since yesterday
[14:57] <seb128> pitti, I was just trying version conflicts in case we need a small gdm change for example
[15:02] <seb128> chrisccoulson, dunno if you have seen but mclasen added a patch on the upstream mirror crash bug
[15:02] <kwwii> erm, beta != release candidate, or?
[15:03] <seb128> yes
[15:03] <mclasen> seb128: was tired of waiting for you to fix it :-)
[15:03] <seb128> rc is in some 3 weeks
[15:03] <kwwii> seb128: sweet, thanks
[15:03] <seb128> mclasen, ;-)
[15:03] <seb128> mclasen, thanks!
[15:04] <seb128> asac, is that normal that firefox displays a dialog to say that 3 addons have been added on first start?
[15:04] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i hadn't noticed yet, as i've not checked my mails
[15:04] <chrisccoulson> mclasen - thanks ;)
[15:04] <asac> seb128: screen plz
[15:07] <seb128> asac, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/ubuntu.png
[15:07] <asac> yes
[15:07] <seb128> asac, it's what I get when starting firefox in a fresh kvm boot on the beta iso
[15:07] <asac> why is that not expected?
[15:08] <asac> it tells you that three new addons are installed
[15:08] <seb128> asac, well, I fail to see how this dialog is useful on the first start
[15:08] <seb128> I didn't ask it to install anything
[15:08] <asac> so you know that you have those extensions installed?
[15:08] <seb128> it's rather confusing, I clicked on the ubiquity "show karmic notes"
[15:08] <seb128> and I get that dialog
[15:08] <asac> hmm
[15:08] <asac> i will think about it and discuss upstream
[15:08] <seb128> thanks
[15:09] <seb128> I mean it's probably fine to display when you install something new
[15:09] <seb128> but on a stock install it's weird to get a dialog saying new things are installed when you just start what is installed
[15:09] <seb128> especially if you open an url and not firefox standalone
[15:11] <seb128> hey rickspencer3, feeling better?
[15:11] <rickspencer3> hi seb128
[15:11] <rickspencer3> shrug
[15:11] <kenvandine> hey rickspencer3!
[15:11] <didrocks> good morning rickspencer3
[15:11] <rickspencer3> hi KenEdwards
[15:12] <rickspencer3> oops
[15:12] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, hope it isn't h1n1 :)
[15:12] <didrocks> and kenvandine ;)
[15:12] <rickspencer3> stupid xchat tab completion
[15:12] <rickspencer3> hi kenvandine and didrocks
[15:12] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, seems like cold, not flu
[15:12] <rickspencer3> no fever and such
[15:12] <kenvandine> i am leaving in 30m to take my daughter to the dr again, her cough is getting much worse and the nurse wants her to come in
[15:12] <rickspencer3> :(
[15:12] <kenvandine> 6 days into this h1n1 thing
[15:12] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, sorry to hear this
[15:12] <kenvandine> it hasn't been bad until last night
[15:13] <rickspencer3> sounds aweful
[15:13] <kenvandine> now her cough is aweful
[15:13] <kenvandine> still has a mild fever, which is expected for 7 to 10 days
[15:13] <kenvandine> and the cough is normal too, but not expect to get much worse 6 days in
[15:13] <kenvandine> we'll see...
[15:15] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I'm sure she'll fine
[15:15] <kenvandine> yeah... an excuse for them to get us to pay for another office visit :)
[15:15] <bratsche> robbiew: Dude, thanks for finding that solution!
[15:15]  * kenvandine is such a skeptic when it comes to doctors
[15:15] <bratsche> robbiew: I owe you a beer or something. :)
[15:16] <robbiew> bratsche: heh
[15:17] <seb128> hum
[15:17] <seb128> is "usplash stays on screen when rebooting from the livecd" a known issue?
[15:18] <seb128> it used to display a message saying that you can remove the CD and reboot I think or press enter
[15:18] <seb128> but there is only the ubuntu logo now
[15:19] <Keybuk> so, if I add a keyboard shortcut to start gnome-terminal
[15:19] <Keybuk> that terminal has a working directory of /
[15:19] <Keybuk> and cannot use the ssh agent
[15:20] <Amaranth> win
[15:22] <pitti> asac, seb128: epiphany isn't sorted out yet:
[15:22] <pitti> o epiphany-extensions: epiphany-extensions
[15:22] <pitti>    [Reverse-Recommends: epiphany-gecko]
[15:22] <pitti> -gecko is still in main, and pulls in -extensions and -webkit
[15:22] <jcastro> pitti: ok thanks (wrt. hal), I saw that banshee was TODO and upstream was wondering if we were just going to drop it totally
[15:22] <jcastro> pitti: (whew!)
[15:22] <pitti> jcastro: as long as it has a Depends: hal, we won't
[15:23] <hyperair> jcastro: what's this about banshee?
[15:23] <jcastro> hyperair: gabaug was wondering if karmic was totally dropping hal
[15:23] <hyperair> aah.
[15:23] <hyperair> i see
[15:23] <pitti> jcastro: I don't expect to drop hal in the next two years, it'll bitrot in universe for a while, I guess
[15:24] <pitti> nobody (including me) is really interested in fixing it any more
[15:24] <KenEdwards> rickspencer3, what's up?
[15:24] <jcastro> pitti: yeah for a minute there I was concerned that we were and we collectively forgot to tell upstreams.
[15:24] <rickspencer3> KenEdwards, sorry, I meant to ping kenvandine
[15:24] <rickspencer3> thanks for getting back though
[15:24] <jcastro> pitti: but it's ok, I no longer fear death.
[15:24] <KenEdwards> rickspencer3, np
[15:25] <asac> pitti: -browser source needs to be removedß
[15:25] <asac> ?
[15:25] <asac> or you want me to add a transitional package for -gecko too?
[15:26] <seb128> asac, should we follow debian and use epiphany-browser source?
[15:26] <seb128> asac, they build the 2.28 gecko version from it now
[15:26] <pitti> jcastro: bugs about it should be filed upstream already
[15:27] <pitti> asac: well, we could drop teh recommmends to suggests (or entirely) and keep -gecko in main, or drop -gecko, too, I don't know
[15:27] <jcastro> pitti: yeah, I just need to find it and link it in /Halsectomy, thanks for the info I'll pass it along
[15:28] <pitti> seb128: hm, -gecko is built by e-source already?
[15:28] <asac> we can also follow debian now
[15:28] <asac> pitti: gecko is gone. thats the idea
[15:29] <asac> so we can remove it entirely
[15:30] <asac> and when lucid starts we can sync epiphany-browser from debian
[15:30] <asac> seb128: they build the gecko version?
[15:30] <asac> anyway call
[15:30] <seb128> asac, no, epiphany-browser 2.28 building webkit
[15:31] <asac> yes thats what i thought
[15:31] <pitti> asac: so we should demote -gecko?
[15:31] <seb128> ie we could sync that one from unstable and clean the webkit source
[15:31] <asac> pitti: remove epiphany-browser source + binaries
[15:31] <asac> thats superseeded for us by -webkit
[15:31] <asac> _or_ sync from debian
[15:31] <seb128> any reason to not to it the other way around?
[15:31] <asac> but i would like to check that after call first
[15:32] <seb128> I would rather sync from debian and demote the source
[15:32] <asac> seb128: no reason. just that i need to check that first ;)
[15:32] <seb128> ok
[15:32] <Amaranth> assuming we get new snapshots of compiz things the new upload will fix 14 bugs so far :)
[15:33] <pitti> ./ubuntu.karmic/dvd: * epiphany-browser
[15:33] <pitti> ./ubuntu.karmic/dvd: * epiphany-extensions
[15:33] <pitti> ^ those are the current seeds
[15:33] <asac> pitti: i removed them ... no?
[15:33] <pitti> asac: no, they are in ubuntu.karmic/dvd, edubuntu.karmic/ship-addon, and edubuntu.karmic/supported
[15:36] <Amaranth> Keybuk: mine always opens to ~/Projects/ubuntu-packages/build-area so I have a feeling I know what is going on here
[15:37] <Keybuk> this is with metacity
[15:37] <Keybuk> not compiz
[15:37] <Amaranth> oh
[15:51] <pitti> seb128: where was your compiled list of "would be nice to fix for karmic" bugs?
[15:51] <seb128> pitti, https://edge.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=12698
[15:51] <pitti> seb128: splendid, merci
[15:52] <seb128> you're welcome
[15:52] <seb128> pitti, feel free to add things there
[15:53] <seb128> it's just assignee = desktop-bugs + milestone karmic
[15:53] <superm1> pitti, while you are seeding, i noticed a couple of days ago from a dvd install that both pidgin and empathy were installed on the DVDs
[15:53] <seb128> ups
[15:53] <seb128> superm1, that was a mistake in pidgin recommends
[15:53] <seb128> no?
[15:53] <seb128> ie, is that still an issue?
[15:54] <seb128> libpurple did recommend pidgin-libnotify by mistake
[15:54] <pitti> seb128: I added the link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[15:54] <seb128> ok thanks
[15:54] <superm1> looks like it's not an issue with the latest DVD indeed seb128
[15:55] <tseliot> pitti: would it be ok if I added lpia to the arch of nvidia 180 in Karmic? (OEM request)
[15:55] <Amaranth> I was telling people about that one all weekend
[15:55] <pitti> tseliot: sure, why not?
[15:55] <Amaranth> They kept saying "yay, pidgin is back!" and I had to kill their dreams :P
[15:55] <tseliot> pitti: ok, good
[15:56] <rickspencer3> tseliot, what's up with "B43 patches"?
[15:56] <rickspencer3> is Yingying asking us to add in major new functions?
[15:56] <tseliot> rickspencer3: freedesktop is down and I can't access the code without it
[15:56] <Amaranth> That's a new chip...
[15:57] <tseliot> rickspencer3: but in general, no, it's nothing that can cause regressions of any kind
[15:57] <rickspencer3> how can that be?
[15:57] <pitti> hey rickspencer3
[15:57] <rickspencer3> hi pitti
[15:58] <Amaranth> rickspencer3: well, I guess it's the difference between those people getting vesa and getting a potentially buggy intel
[15:58] <Amaranth> But again freedesktop is down so I can't check
[15:58] <seb128> the milestoned listed is in topic now
[15:59] <rickspencer3> Amaranth, tseliot so the new code can only impact users who have a certain chipset?
[15:59] <Amaranth> Right
[15:59] <Amaranth> Well, from what I remember
[16:00] <tseliot> rickspencer3: yes, as Amaranth said
[16:01] <tseliot> rickspencer3: it should be just a bunch of new ids, furthermore we already have support for that chipset in the kernel
[16:01] <rickspencer3> tseliot, ok
[16:02] <Amaranth> I thought there was a little bit more to it than ids
[16:08] <tseliot> Amaranth: it should be (I haven't seen the code yet) just a matter of adding the id in libdrm, mesa and intel
[16:26] <rodrigo_> pitti, kenvandine: I've just nominated bug #435904 for karmic, can you accept the nomination?
[16:26] <rodrigo_> pitti, kenvandine: also, I've got this other bug #415297, which affects 2 packages, should I do the 'affects distro' twice, once for each package?
[16:27] <bratsche> popey: Did you test this monitor change I added to xsplash and find it doesn't work on TwinView?
[16:27] <bratsche> popey: It seemed to work for me.
[16:27] <popey> bratsche: i did, this morning
[16:28] <popey> bratsche: are you using twinview?
[16:28] <bratsche> popey: Yes, I used the nvidia utility to setup your screen and it offers to let you use different screens or to use TwinView, so I set it to TwinView.
[16:29] <bratsche> popey: It failed to write an xorg file so I don't actually have it setup to start into TwinView, so I'm not sure how xsplash looks when you login.. but when I run it from a terminal it now only displays on monitor #0.
[16:29] <popey> it is stretched across both screens when i boot bratsche
[16:29] <bratsche> Did you build from bzr trunk?
[16:30] <popey> get nvida settings to put xorg.conf in your home then copy it to /etc/X11 or run nvidia-settings under sudo
[16:30] <bratsche> Okay.
[16:31] <pitti> rodrigo_: karmic task accepted; so it should be "fix committed" if you have a package ready for upload?
[16:32] <bratsche> When I click "Save to X Configuration File" (even running sudo as I am now) it pops up an error dialog that says, "Failed to parse existing X config file /etc/X11/xorg.conf" then it crashes.
[16:32] <pitti> rodrigo_: two tasks> yes, please
[16:32] <rodrigo_> pitti: see the branch, it's ready to submit
[16:32] <rodrigo_> pitti: the tomboy branch linked to the bug
[16:32] <pitti> rodrigo_: right, thanks; it's in the sponsoring queue, we'll handle it from there
[16:32] <rodrigo_> pitti: ok, 2 task-ing now :)
[16:32] <bratsche> popey: If you run it from the command line is it showing across both screens?
[16:32] <popey> run what?
[16:33] <bratsche> popey, xsplash
[16:33] <popey> will test
[16:33] <bratsche> configure --with-user=gdm ; make ; sudo -u gdm ./src/xsplash
[16:34] <rodrigo_> pitti: ok, bug #415297 done and nominated, is it ok like this?
[16:34] <rodrigo_> pitti: if it, please accept the nomination
[16:35] <rodrigo_> pitti: the 2 branches in 'Development' status are the ones containing the package changes
[16:36] <popey> bratsche: tested by running "sudo xsplash" and it spans both screens
[16:39] <pitti> rodrigo_: ack'ed
[16:39] <rodrigo_> pitti: cool, thanks!
[16:39] <popey> bratsche: ah, new xsplash, will test again
[16:39] <bratsche> popey: Yeah, need to build from bzr trunk.
[16:40] <bratsche> lp:xsplash
[16:40] <popey> grabbing now
[16:44] <popey> bratsche: using trunk i get a white box on the screen, top left, not an xsplash as I'd expect
[16:45] <bratsche> Eh, somehow it's not loading the images then.
[16:46] <bratsche> Did you configure --with-user=gdm and run xsplash as sudo -u gdm?
[16:46]  * popey starts again
[16:47] <popey> there is no configure, so run autogen.sh yes?
[16:47] <bratsche> Yes.
[16:47] <bratsche> ./autogen.sh --with-user=gdm
[16:47] <popey> ah, didnt do that
[16:48] <popey> same result
[16:48] <bratsche> Eh, I don't know what's up then.
[16:50] <bratsche> popey: Anyway, when I run it locally with TwinView it runs on only one monitor now.  I think it's fixed. :)
[16:50] <popey> bratsche: http://popey.com/~alan/xsplash.png
[16:51] <bratsche> Broken link
[16:51] <popey> f5
[16:52] <bratsche> Yeah, for some reason it's not finding the images.
[16:52]  * popey shrugs
[16:56] <bratsche> popey: http://www.gnome.org/~bratsche/dsc_0378.jpg
[16:57] <bratsche> Wow, I really need to dust off the desk behind those monitors.  That looks horrible. :)
[17:04] <popey> :)
[17:05] <popey> got the xorg.conf handy for that machine bratsche ?
[17:05] <bratsche> popey: I never saved the TwinView into xorg, I only set it for this session using the nvidia utility.
[17:05] <bratsche> If you have a xorg.conf I can drop in, please send it.
[17:08] <bratsche> popey: xdpyinfo shows screen #0 as being 3200x1200 though, so I'm pretty sure it's configured right.
[17:08] <bratsche> And there is no screen #1
[17:09] <bratsche> I think TwinView exposes itself using XINERAMA, so that's how gtk+ is getting the geometry from it.
[17:12] <rugby471> mpt: just finished listening to your interview, I never knew you were South African :-)
[17:12] <mpt> wat
[17:13] <rugby471> popey: ^ BTW great episode as always :-)
[17:13] <mpt> rugby471, that's a coincidence, neither did I :-P
[17:13] <rugby471> mpt: huh?
[17:13] <rugby471> mpt: aren't you?
[17:14] <mpt> rugby471, New Zealander
[17:14] <rugby471> mpt: jeez I am stinking at accents :-(
[17:14] <rugby471> mpt: then again form my point of view, it's english with another accent... :-)
[17:14] <mpt> rugby471, don't feel bad. My fellow NZers always used to ask me "What part of the UK are you from?" Then when I finally got to the UK, someone asked me: "Are you French?"
[17:16] <rugby471> mpt: haha
[17:21] <popey> rugby471: thanks :)
[17:22] <popey> bratsche: my xorg.conf is on the bug report iirc
[17:34] <hyperair> hmm, xsplash update. do we get newer artwork? =O
[17:53] <bratsche> popey: Oh I see you did.  Hang on and I'll try it out.
[17:53] <bratsche> Thanks.
[17:54] <pitti> wohoo! http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.xorg.devel/2108
[17:54] <pitti> seems we can actually get rid of hal in early lucid \o/
[18:01] <bratsche> popey: Oh, I bet I know why it's not finding the images.. probably need to configure with --prefix=/usr
[18:01] <bratsche> popey: But anyway, tested with your xorg.conf modified for my monitors and logging into the desktop was fine.  For some reason gdm session was still stretched across both monitors though.
[18:02] <bratsche> Oh wait, that's not an xsplash bug in the gdm session.
[18:03] <bratsche> That's just that it's stretching the background instead of tiling it.
[18:06] <chrisccoulson> fantastic, nearly the weekend!
[18:08] <bratsche> It's noon on Wednesday where I live.  I can't tell which weekend I feel closer to.. the last one, or the next one.
[18:08] <rugby471> mac_v: https://bugs.launchpad.net/humanity/+bug/438843 just assigned it to humanity
[18:08] <chrisccoulson> bratsche - wednesday evening here ;)
[18:09] <chrisccoulson> i class weekends as starting at lunchtime on friday, which is when i finish work
[18:09] <popey> bratsche: yeah, i didnt mention that gdm is fine on the primary screen, its just xsplash that is stretched
[18:09] <chrisccoulson> so, 3 days down, 1.5 to go:)
[18:09] <bratsche> popey: Yeah I know.. it just confused me when I was testing it now.  But anyway, I think it's all good now.  If you want to rebuild and test, try adding --prefix=/usr when you run autogen.sh
[18:10] <mac_v> rugby471: ;)
[18:10] <rugby471> mac_v: hehe sorry more work for you and daniel :-)
[18:11] <mac_v> rugby471: just now , i was thinking almost all bugs are cleared and i could rest ... ;p
[18:11] <rugby471> mac_v: hehe
[18:22] <c_korn> is this what the indicator-session is supposed to look like ? http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/26137/screenshot_001_9yNYt3.png
[18:26] <mac_v> rugby471: why isnt software store falling back to the gnome inherits? and instead using wrong icon
[18:26] <mac_v> it maybe a SS bug
[18:26] <chrisccoulson> pitti - is there any way to tell apport to submit a crash report when it thinks that it doesn't have an assertion message?
[18:26] <mac_v> *software center ;)
[18:27] <chrisccoulson> my girlfriend has been having empathy crash a lot today, and the trace in the crash report has enough of the assertion message there to be useful
[18:27] <chrisccoulson> "free() invalid pointer"
[18:27] <pitti> chrisccoulson: try this: try to send the crash, get the lecture, edit the .crash file to drop UnreportableReason, and then ubuntu-bug /var/crash/foo.crash
[18:28] <chrisccoulson> pitti - can i just edit the crash report in a text editor?
[18:28] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, it's just RFC822
[18:28] <chrisccoulson> thanks, i'll do that then
[18:28] <pitti> (untested, beware)
[18:28] <chrisccoulson> it might already be reported, it's a crash in the indicator patch
[18:34] <pitti> I'm off for Taekwondo; cu tomorrow!
[18:35] <chrisccoulson> have fun pitti
[18:35] <chrisccoulson> editing the crash file works btw;)
[18:35] <chrisccoulson> i got my girlfriend to submit her first crash report now
[18:52] <hyperair> meh. why does nautilus show my LVM2 physical volume as one of the mountable volumes when there are no more mountable volumes? (everything's in fstab)
[18:56] <rugby471> mac_v: don't know actually.. I shall have a look
[18:58] <seb128> dinner time, bbl
[19:45] <tedg> c_korn: No, there are a couple of menu reordering bugs.  Switching to the async startup made things unhappy :(
[19:45] <tedg> c_korn: And unpredictable.
[19:47] <kenvandine> tedg, oh... did that make the menu ordering bug worse?
[19:47] <tedg> kenvandine: Yes. :-/
[19:48] <tedg> But, it needs to be fixed no mater what.  It was better than the live CD crashing :)
[19:48] <kenvandine> sad panda
[19:48] <kenvandine> yeah :)
[19:48] <kenvandine> in time for tomorrow's release?
[19:48]  * kenvandine hides under a rock
[19:48] <tedg> kenvandine: Working on it now.  I won't commit to that until I have it fixed ;)
[19:49]  * kenvandine will continue to nag
[19:51] <tedg> I'd expect nothing else  ;)
[19:55] <tgpraveen> kenvandine: did the sound theme needed for empathy to have sound notifications make it in for empathy?
[19:55] <kenvandine> i don't know, never really looked into that
[19:55] <kenvandine> i know it rings when i get a call
[19:55] <kenvandine> :)
[19:58] <tgpraveen> yeah incoming sound has been there since long.hmm there used to be a bug
[19:58]  * tgpraveen hunts 
[20:11] <Amaranth> "/usr/bin/gtk-window-decorator: symbol lookup error: /usr/bin/gtk-window-decorator: undefined symbol: decor_blend_border_picture"
[20:11] <Amaranth> *headdesk*
[20:12] <Amaranth> This guy has the right version of gtk-window-decorator and libdecoration0 and doesn't have any other copies of these around (like /usr/local) but still this seemingly impossible failure
[20:13] <hyperair> try strace it
[20:13] <Amaranth> Yeah, that's what I'm having him try now
[20:13] <Amaranth> We've already been through package versions, ldd, whereis, and reinstalling packages
[20:14] <Amaranth> I'm about to have him run strings on the library just so I can prove the symbol is there :P
[20:15] <hyperair> try nm -D
[20:15] <hyperair> brb. testing grub
[20:27] <mac_v> tedg: i-a stopped changing icon when mail arrives in evolution , is this a known bug?
[20:28] <tedg> mac_v: No, but a few people have said that the messaging menu isn't changing today.  I wonder if there's an icon issue.  It works great for me.
[20:28] <tedg> mac_v: If you run the indicator-message-service in a terminal it should print out text when it changes.
[20:30] <mac_v> tedg: it says command not found ???
[20:30] <tedg> mac_v: /usr/lib/indicator-messages/indicator-messages-service
[20:30] <mac_v> ** ERROR **: Unable to get name
[20:30] <mac_v> aborting...
[20:30] <mac_v> Aborted (core dumped)
[20:31] <tedg> mac_v: You'll need to kill the running one.  There can't be two :)
[20:31] <mac_v> tedg: incoming bug ;)
[20:31] <hyperair> is there a way to tell networkmanager which connection to use for the default route?
[20:31] <mac_v> argh!
[20:31] <hyperair> it's using my LAN cable which is directly connected to another computer instead of my wifi connection
[20:34] <mac_v> tedg: i killed it and started it , now my menu has nothing! it is empty and there is not drop down menu :/
[20:34] <mac_v> is no*
[20:35] <tedg> mac_v: Yeah, it doesn't detect the restarting.  If you want the menu as well you'll have to kill indicator-applet and reload it.
[20:35] <tedg> mac_v: There is a bug for that :)
[20:35] <mac_v> tedg: argh! you should have warned me.. i lost all my launchers :(
[20:35] <tedg> Lost?
[20:36] <mac_v> hehe , i was launching thunderbird , xchat from there ;)
[20:36] <tedg> Oh, they should still come back.
[20:36] <mac_v> they are now missing from /usr/share/indicators/messages/applications :(
[20:37] <tedg> Oh, I don't know why the files would be deleted, that'd be odd.
[20:37] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm stuck on bug 388250 now - there isn't enough information there and the reporters don't seem to be that interested in my request for a backtrace
[20:37] <tedg> But you should put them in ~/.config/indicators/messages/applications
[20:37] <mac_v> oh!  , new location :)
[20:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, try a gentle ping? I think milan is an active GNOME hacker
[20:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, he said he got the apport crash bug he filed which is duplicate using --sync
[20:38] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - unfortunately, milan's issue was a separate one
[20:38] <seb128> oh ok
[20:38] <chrisccoulson> his was the xklavier crash
[20:39] <seb128> can you proper sort the duplicates?
[20:39] <chrisccoulson> the X call that triggers this issue doesn't match the call in the current backtrace, which means the error happened earlier on
[20:39] <seb128> if the duplicates or the libxklavier issue and only one user get this one no need to milestone the bug
[20:39] <seb128> or -> are
[20:40] <seb128> ie don't bother if that's only one non responsive user
[20:40] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i can check that. i think the retracer duplicated most of these though
[20:40] <seb128> retracer do matching on some functions only
[20:40] <seb128> so it could be confused in some corner cases
[20:43] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i've seen that. i'm wondering whether it's possible for the retracer to not duplicate these X error crashes. sometimes it might be possible to get different issues with similar backtraces, due to the asynchronous nature of X
[20:44] <seb128> everything it's possible, it's only a matter of coding ;-)
[20:44] <seb128> the retracer code is basically apport's one
[20:44] <seb128> check with pitti or open a bug on apport
[20:45] <seb128> it's probably easy to not autodup or special case the crashes starting by something
[20:45] <chrisccoulson> yeah, maybe i'll mention it tomorrow
[20:51] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: We have a similar problem with compiz. If compiz state gets corrupted somehow it'll usually end up making it to eventLoop again then dying so the stack trace looks the same no matter who caused it (plugin, driver, or core)
[20:51] <Amaranth> Hmm, I guess 'we' is just me :P
[20:52] <Amaranth> luckily those are rare and all apparently fixed at this point
[21:13] <Laney> anyone else get a black box in their notification area?
[21:13] <Laney> probably where nm would be
[21:19] <Laney> seb128: changes in git now
[21:19] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[21:19] <Laney> dunno how urgently people will sponsor such a change though
[21:20] <Laney> could apply hassle to directhex
[21:21] <seb128> Laney, I did upload the f-spot change to ubuntu today
[21:21] <Laney> cool
[21:21] <seb128> I will sync whenever somebody does sponsor in debian
[21:21] <Laney> you could do the same for tomboy
[21:21] <Laney> we arent in sync there anyway so its not so urgent
[21:21] <seb128> yes, I will do it nobody does the rebasing on debian
[21:22] <Laney> i'll try and look it after -2
[21:25] <joaopinto> hi
[21:26] <joaopinto> seb128, I was told that eventually you would be able to help me
[21:26] <joaopinto> https://bugs.launchpad.net/telepathy-butterfly/+bug/432558
[21:27] <seb128> joaopinto, hi, subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors
[21:27] <joaopinto> ok, it's critical, msn accounts with UTF-8 data will not be able to login
[21:28] <seb128> could you add a diff to the bug and subscribe sponsors?
[21:28] <joaopinto> grrr, the bug is reported on the wrong package
[21:28] <joaopinto> the diff is on the upstream link, it's  a one line diff
[21:29] <seb128> still could you add it to the bug?
[21:29] <Laney> if you ask someone to sponsor its nice to have a proper diff ready
[21:29] <seb128> so we are sure it's listed on the bug with patches to sponsor
[21:30] <joaopinto> ok
[21:33] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - hi, sorry, i went for dinner. yeah, i suppose there could be many instances where different issues might cause similar backtraces. so perhaps special-casing some instances to not duplicate them is not all that practical really
[21:34] <Keybuk> chrisccoulson: how *dare* you eat when there's bugs to be fixed!
[21:34] <chrisccoulson> Keybuk - i know, i must be slacking a bit ;)
[21:35] <chrisccoulson> i might even go to sleep at some point later!
[21:36] <joaopinto> I am unable to add the affects to relation to the correct package. I will file a new bug for python-papyon
[21:38] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i had a look at the duplicates of bug 388250. it's not really possible to decide if they were correctly marked as duplicates, as the attachments have been deleted and the trace is truncated too far to be useful ;)
[21:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, just try pinging on the bug and see if somebody replies ;-)
[21:39] <chrisccoulson> i've just added a comment
[21:39] <chrisccoulson> i've asked for someone to get a xtrace log too, but that might be a bit ambitious ;)
[21:41] <joaopinto> grr, a new crash on butterfly now that I can login :P
[21:41] <istaz> joaopinto: what is the crash now?
[21:42] <joaopinto> istaz, well, crash as in apport report, this one is "natural", NotImplementedError :)
[21:43] <istaz> joaopinto: this one : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/papyon/+bug/194494 ?
[21:43] <joaopinto> no, different function
[21:45] <joaopinto> hum, i get that one also
[21:45] <istaz> on what function was you first one
[21:46] <istaz> yeah that one I really don't understand what's causing it, that function should be implemented iirc
[21:47] <joaopinto> let me try to reproduce it
[21:47] <joaopinto> lost the stack trace, it's something about invite
[21:48] <Yan> hi!
[21:51] <istaz> joaopinto: it would be nice if you could reproduce it and get a trace
[21:51] <Yan> any developers here?
[21:53] <diverse_izzue> joaopinto, i think it's the bug where it crashes on receiving messages that were sent to you while offline.
[21:54] <joaopinto> diverse_izzue, don't think so, it's happening randomly
[21:54] <diverse_izzue> uh, the one istaz mentioned actually...
[21:54] <diverse_izzue> hmm
[21:54] <diverse_izzue> not directly after login?
[21:54] <joaopinto> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-butterfly/+bug/439634
[21:55] <joaopinto> ContactInviteError.NOT_AVAILABLE
[21:58] <seb128> istaz, do you watch the telepathy-butterfly bug list on launchpad?
[21:58] <seb128> istaz, do you have access to private bugs there?
[22:09] <joaopinto> is the webcam icon on empathy expected to work and provide an indication that the person has a webcam available ?
[22:13] <istaz> seb128: I'm subscribed to them but I can't see the private bugs no
[22:14] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i can recreate the gvfs-gdu-volume-monitor crash, by inserting a "sleep (5)" in devicekit-disks-daemon before grabbing the dbus service
[22:14] <chrisccoulson> not sure what that proves yet though ;)
[22:14] <james_w> yay chrisccoulson
[22:15] <seb128> t's proving there is a race there ;-)
[22:15] <chrisccoulson> i think so
[22:18] <chrisccoulson> ah
[22:19] <chrisccoulson> in my case, it appears that dbus_g_proxy_call times out before devicekit-disks-daemon is ready
[22:19] <chrisccoulson> which then makes everything go horribly wrong in gdu, and crash
[22:19] <chrisccoulson> which means the default timeout is pretty short
[22:20] <chrisccoulson> i suppose that it is quite feasible that some people would experience this timeout normally when a lot of things are loading at the start of their session
[22:21] <Keybuk> 15s
[22:21] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, it seems to be quicker than 15 seconds here
[22:21] <chrisccoulson> i only put a 5 second sleep in dk-disks, and it times out before then
[22:22] <Laney> does empathy try to reconnect to msn if signed on elsewhere?
[22:23] <Laney> keep getting signed out
[22:23] <seb128> istaz, ok, I will try to open some of the crashers
[22:24] <james_w> would a minimal reproducer help?
[22:25] <istaz> seb128: thanks
[22:25] <istaz> seb128: could apport be configured to make the distinction between real crasher and error only in bug report?
[22:26] <seb128> how would you make the difference between those in a programmatic way?
[22:26] <chrisccoulson> Keybuk - does _DBUS_DEFAULT_TIMEOUT_VALUE in the dbus source define the default timeout for calls?
[22:27] <Keybuk> yes
[22:27] <chrisccoulson> thats currently (25 * 1000) ms
[22:27] <Keybuk> 25s then ;)
[22:27] <chrisccoulson> yeah
[22:27]  * Keybuk thought it was 15
[22:27] <chrisccoulson> so i'm confused now
[22:27] <james_w> it's actually "parser->limits.activation_timeout = 25000; /* 25 seconds */" for activation I think
[22:27] <james_w> but still...
[22:28] <james_w> it's overridden (twice) in our config for the session bus
[22:31] <james_w> chrisccoulson: do you know if you get "exited with status 0" in this case?
[22:31] <chrisccoulson> from the activated devicekit-disks-daemon?
[22:32] <james_w> in the error that g-d-u gets back?
[22:32] <james_w> does it print the error to stderr/.xsession-errors?
[22:33] <chrisccoulson> gdu doesn't get an error back. the error is that the pending call times out waiting for devicekit-disks-daemon to appear:
[22:33] <chrisccoulson> "Couldn't call GetAll() to get properties for /: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include......."
[22:34] <james_w> oh yeah
[22:34] <chrisccoulson> so there's 2 issues here:
[22:34] <chrisccoulson> 1) the timeout is too small for some reason
[22:34] <chrisccoulson> 2) gvfs doesn't handle this correctly
[22:35] <chrisccoulson> 2) is probably quite easily fixable
[22:36] <chrisccoulson> pitti^^^ you might be interested in the scrollback tomorrow morning ;)
[22:36] <james_w> which timeout?
[22:37] <james_w> if the activation timeout is hit then the call will error
[22:37] <chrisccoulson> is there an activation timeout too?
[22:37] <james_w> yeah
[22:37] <james_w> which is also 25 seconds
[22:37] <james_w> and as 5 << 25 I'm guessing it's not hit
[22:37] <chrisccoulson> i'm definately not getting anywhere near 25s ;)
[22:38] <chrisccoulson> i'm probably seeing 3.5
[22:38] <james_w> though as 25 = 25, the call will probably timeout before the activation
[22:39] <james_w> so, what we are seeing is that if d-d is slow to grab the bus name, either due to system load at startup, or because of a sleep, the call times out
[22:40] <james_w> does d-d daemonise?
[22:40] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's basically what we're seeing
[22:40] <chrisccoulson> no d-d doesn't daemonize
[22:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you gnome-python-extras change, not sure we should drop python-gnome2-extras now
[22:41] <seb128> $ apt-cache rdepends python-gnome2-extras | sort | uniq | wc -l
[22:41] <seb128> 37
[22:41] <chrisccoulson> urgh, yeah
[22:41] <chrisccoulson> that's probably not such a good idea then
[22:41] <seb128> admitted half of the list is noise
[22:41] <chrisccoulson> i could just make it a metapackage that pulls in all the other packages for now
[22:41] <james_w> so with your sleep the command still doesn't return until it has grabbed the bus name?
[22:42] <seb128> rdepends lists the conflicts etc so all the binaries there
[22:42] <chrisccoulson> james_w - yeah, the command doesn't return until then.
[22:42] <chrisccoulson> if i use dbus-send to start it, then that doesn't return until it appears on the bus either
[22:42] <chrisccoulson> and that doesn't time out
[22:43] <james_w> weird
[22:43] <chrisccoulson> so maybe gvfs does something funny
[22:43] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you could let it as it is now
[22:43] <seb128> chrisccoulson, it's mostly some example and the depends
[22:43] <seb128> but seems we could easily clean the rdepends list too
[22:43] <seb128> let's see after beta for this one
[22:43] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i don't mind
[22:54] <pitti> chrisccoulson: X error duplication> can you please open a bug and subscribe me? (just passing by before to bed, to check for OMGkittensdie)
[22:55] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti - i can do that
[22:55] <chrisccoulson> you've seen the scrollback then ;)
[22:56] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yep, I did; I knew that the timeout was something like 20 seconds, so I found it weird to believe that DK-disks would take that long to start..
[22:56] <chrisccoulson> james_w - i just ran gdb on gvfs-gdu-volume-monitor, and break on dbus_connection_send_with_reply, and the call which times out and makes it crash has "timeout_milliseconds=-1"
[22:56] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it doesn't take that long to start
[22:56] <james_w> I believe that means default
[22:56] <chrisccoulson> but it's timing out too soon for some reason
[22:57] <pitti> chrisccoulson: so you think something sets the timeout much shorter for activation? 3 or 4 seconds sounds plausible to time out, especially at session startup, when everything drowns in IO
[22:57] <chrisccoulson> james_w - yeah, that's default. so gvfs isn't doing anything wierd for the timeout
[22:57] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm not sure yet why the timeout is so short
[22:57] <chrisccoulson> but at least we sort-of know whats going on now:)
[22:58] <james_w> so the activation timeout is started from the first caller to request activation of a particular name
[22:58] <james_w> so if there are multiple things asking for d-d then the last will see the activation timeout much quicker
[22:58] <james_w> however, you still should get an "activation failed" error
[22:58] <pitti> ok, seems to be quiet, so off to bed
[22:58] <james_w> night pitti
[22:58] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm not seeing that
[22:58] <pitti> james_w, chrisccoulson, thanks for debugging this!
[22:58] <chrisccoulson> good night pitti
[22:59] <chrisccoulson> heh, no worries. i like doing this stuff ;)
[23:00] <chrisccoulson> anyway, i have to disappear for a bit. i need to prepare all my stuff for work in the morning
[23:00] <james_w> when I turn up tomorrow and complain that devicekit-disks isn't starting, please remind me that I hacked the service file to launch it from a non-standard location
[23:00] <james_w> I know I'll forget that
[23:04] <chrisccoulson> james_w - you might need to remind me to remind you ;)
[23:05] <james_w> I've reproduced as you suggest
[23:05] <istaz> 23:28 < seb128> how would you make the difference between those in a programmatic way? << simply check if the process still exist or has returned?
[23:05] <james_w> sleep(5) gives the same symptoms
[23:09] <james_w> upping the timeout of the GetAll call means that it doesn't timeout
[23:09] <james_w> perhaps unsurprisingly
[23:10] <chrisccoulson> james_w - yeah, that makes sense
[23:10] <Keybuk> seb128_: gdm seems to be unconditionally starting the greeter
[23:10] <Keybuk> even with auto-login
[23:11] <seb128_> Keybuk, it's fixed in bzr and in the karmic queue
[23:11] <james_w> altering the timeout in the call now to see if it can be narrowed down
[23:14] <james_w> so, a 10ms timeout causes it to... timeout
[23:14]  * james_w reads the documentation of the function and * 1000
[23:14] <chrisccoulson> heh, 10ms is quite tight ;)
[23:15] <chrisccoulson> aaaargh, my mouse is really annoying me now
[23:15] <chrisccoulson> it keeps giving me multiple events when i click on things
[23:16] <james_w> 20s still gives a timeout
[23:16] <james_w> and in a lot less that 20s
[23:16] <chrisccoulson> so you're actually explicitly passing a 20s timeout to dbus_g_proxy_call_with_timeout?
[23:16] <seb128_> istaz, try talking to pitti tomorrow about that or open an apport bug, that has probably been discussed before though
[23:16] <chrisccoulson> and it's timing out in less than 20s?
[23:17] <james_w> I'm using dbus_g_proxy_set_default_timeout
[23:18] <james_w> which I'm assuming is equivalent
[23:18] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. that basically does the same thing though
[23:18] <james_w> (I'm using gdu-notification-daemon, not gvfs)
[23:18] <james_w> 50s doesn't timeout
[23:18] <istaz> seb128_: is this just enabled for testing or will it also be in the stable version?
[23:19] <seb128_> istaz, it's only on by default in unstable versions
[23:19] <istaz> ok
[23:19] <seb128_> istaz, we will turn it off before karmic again
[23:19] <seb128_> stable version give too many duplicates and crashes about outdated versions we don't work really on
[23:20] <seb128_> and they annoy users too
[23:20] <james_w> yep, 20s callout times out in ~5s, 30s timeout doesn't at all
[23:21] <james_w> split the difference -> 25s -> activation timeout
[23:29] <james_w> wth?
[23:32] <james_w> somewhere around 20.15 seconds there is a change in behaviour
[23:33] <james_w> anything less than that and it fails ~100% of the time
[23:33] <james_w> anything more and it succeeds ~100% of the time
[23:33] <james_w> with the successes getting the response in ~as long as the failures get the timeout back
[23:34] <james_w> all with the sleep(5) in there
[23:36] <chrisccoulson> the timeout is something that happens client-side isn't it? (ie, it's not a timeout in dbus-daemon is it)?
[23:39] <james_w> yeah
[23:44] <istaz> hum strange sometime launchpad find the papyon project, sometime it doesnt
[23:45] <chrisccoulson> james_w - do you think it's an issue with not yet being in the main loop when adding the timeout?
[23:45] <james_w> interesting
[23:46] <james_w>  * Blocks until a pending call times out or gets a reply.
[23:46] <james_w>  *
[23:46] <james_w>  * Does not re-enter the main loop or run filter/path-registered
[23:46] <james_w>  * callbacks. The reply to the message will not be seen by
[23:46] <james_w>  * filter callbacks.
[23:46] <james_w> I had just read that comment when you mentioned the main loop
[23:47] <james_w> but in general there shouldn't be a problem with setting timeouts before entering the main loop
[23:47] <chrisccoulson> heh, yeah. i was trying to follow through the dbus code, and thought that the timeout probably requires you to already be in the mainloop. but i'm not sure what happens when you enter it after already setting some timeouts
[23:48] <chrisccoulson> a quick way to test that would be to move all the initialization to a callback registered with g_idle_add
[23:49] <james_w> yeah
[23:49] <james_w> a dbus log during this would be quite interesting
[23:49] <james_w> a pain to get though
[23:49] <james_w> and all the dbus traffic on boot would be a *lot* :-)
[23:49] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i've tried to capture stuff like that before
[23:52] <james_w> I can't seem to break on anything in the dbus daemon
[23:53] <chrisccoulson> i've not tried to do that yet;)