/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/09/30/#ubuntu-devel.txt

mathiazmdz: hm..well - purging the eucalyptus* packages doesn't work00:06
mathiazmdz: it gets stuck on Removing eucalyptus-common00:07
mathiazmdz: processes look like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/281724/00:07
mathiazmdz: http://paste.ubuntu.com/281725/ <- better00:08
mathiazmdz: hm - it worked - after 10 mn00:11
slangasekkirkland, mathiaz: updated server ISO posted00:19
mathiazmdz: hm - on package reinstalltion everything works as expected00:22
mathiazmdz: clusters, sd and walruses are all registered and correctly listed00:22
kirklandslangasek: thanks, i'm grabbing00:39
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
TheMusoDoes anybody happen to know of any particular cdimage mirror/machine that is not loaded with downloads? i.e is there a machine I could use to sync images a little quicker?01:41
slangasekblink, is cdimage being flooded already?01:41
TheMusoWell it feels slower for me compared to even a week ago.01:43
TheMusoAnd this is after syncing once every day or two.01:43
kirklandnurmi: ping, when you come back around01:46
kirklandnurmi: i think i found a problem with node registration01:46
kirklandnurmi: i want to sanity check this patch01:46
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
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=== robert_ancell_ is now known as robert_ancell
mathiazkirkland: did you file a bug for booting from a degraded raid1 array not working in karmic?02:40
kirklandmathiaz: Bug 42704802:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 427048 in grub2 "grub2 needs to install the bootloader to each disk in a RAID1 array providing /boot" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42704802:40
mathiazkirkland: ok02:41
mathiazkirkland: and how do I boot the system once I'm in the initramfs shell?02:41
kirklandmathiaz: boot from the first disk02:42
kirklandmathiaz: that should work02:42
mathiazkirkland: yes - it works - it drops to a initramfs shell since one of the disk is missing02:42
kirklandmathiaz: you should get a prompt asking you if you want to boot from the degraded raid02:46
mathiazkirkland: I may have missed that prompt (which times out IIRC)02:46
mathiazkirkland: booting with bootdegraded=true on the kernel command line still fails though02:47
mathiazkirkland: http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/degraded_raid1.png02:48
kirklandmathiaz: that sucks02:49
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
kirklandanyone else here besides keybuk can help debug a hard upstart problem?03:57
slangasekkirkland: one other than the one I already worked on and declared it to be an upstart bug? :)04:04
kirklandslangasek: nope, same one04:04
=== Whoopie_ is now known as Whoopie
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
TheMusoc05:57
pittiGood morning06:57
al-maisanGood morning06:58
pittislangasek: art-pkg is a member of ubuntu-desktop, which is a member of ubuntu-core-dev, so yes; these branches are meant to match the archive; kwwii tends to not use UNRELEASED, so it might be that the branch is ahead06:59
slangasekpitti: okie-day06:59
dholbachgood morning07:08
mdkemorning07:09
nixternalgood morning dholbach07:13
dholbachhey mdke, hey nixternal!07:14
mdke:)07:16
YokoZarI'm trying to trace a nautilus crash but I keep getting (no debugging symbols found)...done.  even though I have nautilus-dbg installed07:42
mdkepitti: how does UNRELEASED work?07:43
mdkeperhaps we should use that in the ubuntu-docs branches07:44
pittimdke: when you do changes to a package, you always keep the target as "UNRELEASED" (not karmic); this shows everyone looking at the branch that the next change will be documented in the same changelog record, and that the package needs uploading07:52
pittimdke: when you upload, you do "dch -r" (changes UNRELEASED to "karmic"), and "debcommit -r" (commits that change and tags it with the version number)07:52
pittimdke: so when you see a branch with "karmic", you know it's uploaded and you need to start a new changelog entry07:53
* pitti pats "DEBCHANGE_RELEASE_HEURISTIC=changelog" in ~/.descripts07:53
pitti^ this causes "dch" to automatically start a new entry if the target is not UNRELEASED07:53
YokoZarpitti: relatedly, dch --create will also use UNRELEASED07:55
* hyperair uses C-c C-v in emacs07:56
hyperairno more debchange for me. heheh07:56
mdkepitti: ah, that's very useful to know, thanks07:59
pittihyperair: that opens a new buffer with debian/changelog, and calls dch?08:00
hyperairpitti: no it doesn't. it just adds a new changelog entry on top08:00
pittiah08:00
hyperairif there was anything i used dch for, it was for automatically generating -- line08:00
hyperairthe one with the timestamp08:01
hyperairbut that was when i used vim08:01
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
* pitti starts the karmic upgrade of his wife's computer and gets the asbestos pants08:19
StevenKpitti: With, or without permission? :-P08:20
pittiwith :)08:20
pittibut if it breaks, I still have to fix it, of course08:20
mvowehhh08:22
mvogood luck!08:23
pittimvo: if update-manager breaks, I'll blame you :)08:23
* mvo hiddes08:23
mvopitti: the desktop upgrade tests look good but I did not test as much this time :/08:23
mvo(as in previous cycles)08:24
robert_ancell_Can someone explain this to me, if I look on http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gdm/log/daemon/gdm-display.c at the last change it shows modifications to gdm_display_real_get_timed_login_details() but if I look at the master version the changes arent there (http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gdm/tree/daemon/gdm-display.c). ???08:36
=== robert_ancell_ is now known as robert_ancell
alexmurray@robert_ancell: works for me - the change removed the FIXME comment and the comment isn't there from what I can see in the second link you posted08:48
robert_ancellalexmurray, what about the branch "if (usernamep != NULL && *usernamep != NULL) {"08:49
alexmurrayI can't see that in the diff for the commit..08:50
alexmurraythats in gdm-slave.c08:51
robert_ancellalexmurray, ah, thanks.  I knew I was going mad :)08:51
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
dholbachcjwatson, james_w: just FYI: ubuntu-reviews@ was created09:35
dholbachI don't know how we could route merge proposals and stuff that way09:35
YokoZarIf I'm splitting a package should I wait for the child to be out of the new queue before uploading the parent version that depends on it?09:37
MacSlowdidrocks, ping09:38
slytherinYokoZar: yes09:40
didrocksMacSlow: pong09:43
MacSlowdidrocks, greetings09:43
slytherinif I have uploaded a bug fix revision for a package which is waiting in 'unapproved' queue, when is it like to get approved? after beta?09:44
MacSlowdidrocks, do you have any idea how to work-around https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/anjuta/+bug/438792 until there's proper fix? (trying to downgrade anjuta atm)09:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 438792 in anjuta "segfault in symbol_db_engine_file_exists()" [High,New]09:45
slytherintseliot: Are you handling -ati driver packages currently?09:45
tseliotslytherin: yes, I am09:46
didrocksMacSlow: yeah, seb128 ping me about this one. It was working when testing it in an unclean box. So, I'm preparing a new version just now, but I don't have a box to test before tonight09:46
slytherintseliot: is the problem described in the bug likely to be caused by bad driver - bug 42280709:47
ubottuLaunchpad bug 422807 in moovida "No icons on home screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42280709:47
tseliotlet me check09:47
MacSlowdidrocks, ah cool that you're on it already. For the time being I'll stick to the downgraded version (hope that works out as planned). Thanks!09:47
didrocksMacSlow: can you tell me about the downgrade result? I guess libgdl is maybe guilty09:48
tseliotslytherin: are you using Karmic? What card are you using?09:49
slytherintseliot: Yes I am using karmic. The card is Radeon 7000. The reason I suspect it is driver problem is because I get garbled display in notify-osd notifications as well.09:50
MacSlowdidrocks, seems to have worked... sofar. No segfault for using anjuta_2%3a2.27.5.0-0ubuntu2_amd64.deb and anjuta-common_2%3a2.27.5.0-0ubuntu2_all.deb09:50
tseliotslytherin: I think I have a bug report about radeon 7000 and notify already09:51
slytherintseliot: can you please tell me bug number when you find it? I will see if I can add more info to it.09:51
tseliotslytherin: I'll put the final release of mesa in a PPA. That might help09:51
didrocksMacSlow: thanks for the feedback09:52
slytherintseliot: That will be great. I can test it anytime this week.09:52
* tseliot looks for the bug report09:53
tseliotslytherin: bug #42929509:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 429295 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "OSD showing corruption on ATI graphics" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42929509:58
mvoRiddell: do you have a opinion what to do in app-install-data with applications available for both kde3 and kde4 - should we just display both (that is what is done now) or should there be some cleanup for karmic-final?09:59
slytherintseliot: Right. Same behaviour on my PC.10:00
tseliotslytherin: it looks similar to bug #41600110:01
ubottuLaunchpad bug 416001 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "Notification and similar dialogs are displaying corrupted after update on Karmic" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/41600110:01
tselioteven though the corruption is orange in the 2nd case10:01
tseliot(it might depend on the background colour)10:02
slytherinI don'r remember what is colour of the corruption in my case. But the behaviour is same for notify-osd.10:02
=== Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_
tseliotok10:12
* hyperair stabs nm-connection-editor10:21
hyperairaccept my settings already damnit!10:22
hyperairwhat the hell's wrong with this thing?!10:22
Riddellmvo: got examples of kde 3 and 4 apps? there shouldn't be too many10:28
mvoRiddell: kspread , kxsldbg, koffice, klinkstatus, mailody, kimagemaeditor, klpato - that seems to be aobut it10:30
cjwatsonpitti: did you upgrade lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/usplash/ubuntu?10:35
cjwatsonas in bzr upgrade10:36
pitticjwatson: yes, I did; did it break?10:36
pitti(it still has the backup)10:36
pittibzr complained that it couldn't push there10:36
* pitti recently upgraded his local branches to 2a10:36
cjwatsonthat's ok, I just wanted to know. bzr gets upset about mixed 2a and non-2a branches so it just means I have to upgrade too10:37
cjwatson(I have a local non-2a repository in the directory above my usplash checkout, which I'm upgrading now)10:37
cjwatsonbetter now10:37
tkamppeterpitti, hi10:38
pittihey tkamppeter10:38
pittitkamppeter: FYI, I fixed the raw printer usb device permissions in udev trunk, so that lsusb will work again10:38
cjwatsonI'm thinking that usplash really needs options to daemonise itself and write a pidfile10:38
cjwatsonthis business with backgrounding usplash in the initramfs script is racy10:38
tkamppeterpitti, I have patched the CUPS usb backend to support both usblp and libusb, including tolerating the URIs of method B when printing via method A.10:39
mvopitti: how is the release upgrade going?10:40
tkamppeterpitti, what change did you exactly do on the usb device permissions? Simply made them world-readable?10:48
tkamppeterpitti, here is the patch: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/282020/10:50
tkamppeterpitti, it has the following functionality:10:50
tkamppeterpitti: It uses both libusb and usblp for discovery, I have done some fixes that at least the make/model part of the URIs is the same, extra info in the libusb URIs which can only be obtained via libusb I leave in the URIs.10:52
tkamppeterpitti: For printing at first usblp is tried and if the device is not found libusb. If the device is not found there, too, the procedure is repeated after 5 seconds.10:53
tkamppeterWhen printing the device is identified by matching the queue's URI with the discobvered URIs. I have modified this matching that libusb-generated URIs can be matched against usblp-generated ones and vice versa.10:55
tkamppeterpitti: This allows loading and unloading the usblp kernel module between queue setup and printing or between print jobs in general. It also should make queue set up with Jaunty work under Karmic's CUPS, both with blacklisted usblp or usblp being loaded normally.10:57
slytherinare we still processing package removals in sync with Debian?11:01
cjwatsonnot in general, request ones you need11:02
cjwatsoncontinuing to process package removals after ceasing to process automatic syncs is a recipe for stuff going wrong :)11:02
slytherincjwatson: Ok. I want vecmath1.2 to be removed, but before that cdk needs to be synced. There is already a sync bug for cdk, no bug for vecmath1.2 removal.11:04
pittimvo: just finished, mostly ok; I have a short list of issues11:04
slytherincjwatson: The bug for cdk sync is bug #438525.11:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 438525 in cdk "Sync cdk 1:1.0.2-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43852511:05
cjwatsonslytherin: um, sorry, request -> in a bug report please - we won't be doing much extraneous archive admin until after beta11:05
slytherincjwatson: Ok. I will file bug for vecmath1.2 removal after cdk is synced.11:05
cjwatsonand I certainly won't in general process archive admin requests on IRC since that gets us into a world of pain :)11:05
pitticjwatson: on jaunty->karmic ugprade is it expected to stay with grub 1?11:05
cjwatsonyes11:05
sladencjwatson: FWIW, I haven't seen usplash during boot for a couple of weeks11:06
sladencjwatson: should it still be there (instead of the scrolling text)11:06
cjwatsonsladen: correct11:06
cjwatsonit was intentionally turned off; the intention is to get X up fast enough that we don't need it11:06
cjwatsonusplash actually slows that down11:07
cjwatsonso we use usplash only when it's needed (e.g. interaction like cryptsetup, known slow boot scenarios, etc.)11:07
pittimvo: biggest problem is that the cleanup stage removes all the language-support stuff (gimp and OO.o help and translations, etc.)11:07
pittimvo: we dropped language-support-translations-* in favor of a language-selector approach11:07
cjwatsonif you want it on your system, put USPLASH=y in /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf11:07
pittibut the upgrade removes all of them11:07
sladencjwatson: I try to stick with the defaults, however four variants text scroll (font change, mode change, font change (again)) does look crap (total of 30.0 seconds spent in text mode)11:11
cjwatsonyou're aware that you're looking at a work in progress11:11
sladencjwatson: I'd prefer a timer, and then fire up usplash after ~3 seconds.  A netbook will have got past that stage by then, hopefully11:12
cjwatsontalk to Keybuk11:12
cjwatson(when he's around)11:12
slytherinsladen: look at the positive side. You get to see error messages at boot time (if any) that you won't see otherwise unless you checked dmesg log. :-)11:13
ograsladen, echo "USPLASH=y" | sudo tee -a /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/mysplash && sudo update-initramfs -u11:13
cjwatsonany display of messages on the console by default before X starts is a bug, and I'd hope we can fix all that for final11:14
ograheh, you havent seen imx51 :P11:14
cjwatsonfor x86 anyway11:14
ograbut i hope that too11:14
ryanakcacjwatson: /query ?11:14
cjwatsonryanakca: if you want to /query me, just do so, don't ask11:14
ogracjwatson, what will be done about fsck then ?11:15
cjwatsonogra: I *think* that if fsck needs to do anything non-trivial then we need to start up usplash for it11:15
cjwatsonbut Keybuk may have other thoughts11:15
StevenKAs well as prompting for things like mount passphrases?11:16
cjwatsonI believe that's already done11:16
cjwatsonif you use cryptsetup then that's supposed to cause the USPLASH option to be turned on when generating the initramfs11:16
pittitkamppeter: dev permissions> yes, 0664 now11:16
cjwatsonwell, at least for /, it may not be hooked up for other things yet11:16
pittitkamppeter: nice! great work11:18
tkamppeterpitti, I am going to upload it to BZR.11:18
pittitkamppeter: did you already propose that to Mike? it seems to be much better than having to decide at compile tie11:18
pittitkamppeter: then we'll drop the blacklisting again, right?11:18
tkamppeterpitti, not yet.11:18
tkamppeterpitti, I have prepared the commit, I will commit now, then you can drop the blacklisting.11:19
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
ograhrm11:19
tkamppeterpitti, committed.11:20
ogramat_t, the xsplash image is loaded dynamically and based on the name, right ? i'll do some tests if other formats change anything wrt "tree rings" once i'm done with my beta install tests11:59
mvopitti: language-support> hm, that stuff is not in the "translations" section? stuff from that section is not removed (or should not get removed)12:02
mvopitti: I'm curious about the other issues too12:03
mat_togra: great, thanks!12:03
pittimvo: no, it's in doc (gimp-help-de, openoffice.org-help-de) or editors (openoffice.org-l10n-de) or whatnot12:03
mat_togra: not sure how it's loaded, probably best to ask bratsche12:04
pittimvo: there are some difficulties with fvwm and xsplash (not upgrade specific, and not supported)12:04
ogramat_t, though i doubt i can easily change jpeg to svg12:04
pittimvo: the other main issue was that DNS hangs/times out for 10 seconds12:04
pittiI first got that in karmic some months ago12:04
ograbut i'll try png and whatever else comes to my mind12:04
pittiit doesn't happen with jaunty, does happen with karmic, on the same router/ethernet12:04
mat_togra: you could just create a simple svg with a gradient I guess12:04
pittibut nobody else seems to have this problem12:04
pittiI already played around with nssswitch, no change (to rule out avahi stuff)12:05
ogramat_t, oh, indeed, i thought you wanted me to use the jpeg as base12:05
mat_togra: I can create one if that would help12:05
ogranah, i know my way around inkscape :)12:05
mat_t:)12:05
mvopitti: hm, I look into the translation stuff today and add some transition code12:05
pittimvo: so for upgrade specific stuff, the translation stuff was the main issue12:05
pittimvo: ArneGoetje wrote a script to display missing packages for a language; perhaps this can be modified also to show required packages (even if they are still installed)12:06
pittiwithout language-selector code it's not really easy to tell which are translation related12:06
mvopitti: yeah, I think it needs to include some code from the karmic l-s to ensure that it does the right thing12:07
pittimvo: the script is in the l-s tree now, but I guess it needs some tweaks to be useful for this case12:07
pittimvo: I'll file a bug to track and discuss this12:07
mvopitti: thanks12:07
pittimvo: the other option would be to collect the l-s-translations-* dependencies beforehand and substract them from the cleanup list?12:09
pittiwell, I'll elaborate in the bug12:09
mvopitti: that would work as well12:12
pittidone in bug 43929612:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 439296 in update-manager "jaunty->karmic upgrade removes former language-support-translations-* dependencies" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43929612:15
pittitkamppeter: thanks; I removed the blacklisting (also on upgrade) and fixed the changelog; building now, will upload to sid later12:35
joaopintosox is not installable, because libgsm1 is not available, is this a temporary building problem or should I file a bug report ?12:41
joaopintohum, sox is in universe, better ask on motu :P12:43
tkamppeterpitti, thanks. Now the only thing is that USB printing will more or less continue the old way: A printer is plugged and usblp automatically loaded. Then all printing goes automatically through usblp. This way all legacy add-ons (foo2zjs firmware load, escputil without print queue, libinklevel, ...) and also several manufacturer backends will continue working, but on the other side printers will not get accessed in libusb mode making us12:48
tkamppetere of the advantages of libusb-based access.12:48
tkamppeterpitti, at least a program can detach a printer from the kernel module now (like HPLIP) and a queue based on the usb CUPS backend stays working.12:51
=== Pici` is now known as Pici
mdzkirkland, did your localhost->lan IP change fix the registration issue?13:06
seb128hum bug #43931613:11
ubottuLaunchpad bug 439316 in gdm "GDM won't start, hangs in upstart on "emit starting-dm"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43931613:11
ograhmm, if i select an encrypted homedir during install i get usplash ?13:22
ograeven though it doesnt ask me anything ?13:23
cjwatsonKeybuk: ^- bug 439316 - did I break something when I added that?13:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 439316 in gdm "GDM won't start, hangs in upstart on "emit starting-dm"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43931613:27
cjwatsonthat "start: Unknown job: S04kdm" bit is a bit suspicious too, I wonder what's causing that13:27
cjwatsonleftover rc.d symlink to something that's now an upstart job?13:28
didrocksMacSlow: seb128 confirmed that he doesn't have anjuta crashing either. I pinged upstream about the issue but nobody's present today. I'll still update anjuta to 2.28.0 as the work is done :-)13:28
ogramat_t, hmm, opening the existing xsplash wallpaper in gimp pops up a message about an embedded color profile ... could that be our issue ?13:33
mat_togra: I'd be surprised if it was13:34
mat_togra: app that does not deal with profiles would simply disregard it13:35
mat_togra: I can give you a version without the profile if you have time to test it13:36
ScottKmvo: I didn't see where you got an answer to your kde3/4 question.  My opinion would be show them both.  In all those cases the KDE3 versions are generally preferred because the KDE4 versions have maturity issues, but there will be people who want the KDE4 one anyway.13:37
ograi'm done with beta image tests for now, so i have time to look into xsplash13:37
slacker_nlanyone else having troubles with the keyserver, unable to upload my key, keeps timing out13:38
Keybukcjwatson: reading13:39
Keybuk(sorry, bit lagged, my laptop is a bit screwed so just trying to get set up on another)13:39
Keybukon the bright side, this means I'm actually doing CD testing ;)13:39
slacker_nllol13:40
Keybukcjwatson: what did you change?13:40
mvoScottK: ok, thanks. that is fine with me, its a bit ugly in the U Icurrently because the only difference in the description is the package name13:40
pittihey Keybuk, welcome back13:40
cjwatsonKeybuk: I upstartified usplash so that we could actually reliably make it go away when gdm starts13:40
Keybukcjwatson: oh, I had some packages for that13:41
cjwatsonthis included making gdm emit a starting-dm event13:41
Keybukwhy not just use "starting gdm" ?13:41
cjwatsonor starting kdm or ... besides, I couldn't find a way to make that work with "text"13:41
Keybukfair point13:41
KeybukI'll need to look at what you did13:41
Keybukand compare it with what I was doing13:42
cjwatsonthe thing that seems to be hanging is the initctl emit, but presumably that blocks until all the stuff hung off that event has finished13:42
Keybukexactly13:42
Keybukwhich is what you want13:42
cjwatsonyeah13:42
cjwatsonI don't see anything in the usplash job I added that could block indefinitely13:42
cjwatsonhmm, unless it's the usplash_write13:43
Keybukonce I'm back up, I'll take a look13:43
cjwatsonthat might block if nothing's on the other end of the fifo13:43
Keybukdid you write the pid of usplash from the initramfs to /dev/.initramfs/usplash.pid ?13:43
cjwatsonyes13:43
Keybukneat :p13:43
cjwatsonthat's a lovely upstart hack BTW13:43
Keybukyes, I thought so13:43
Keybukit's great because it means you can put all the "start on" stuff in the actual job13:44
Keybukso without-initramfs works too13:44
cjwatsonor, in this case, we can actually stop usplash on "stop"13:44
Keybukright13:44
cjwatsonyeah, I didn't do start stuff for this - I probably ought to have done13:44
KeybukI did start for the shutdown case13:44
cjwatsonI figured it wasn't the end of the world if without-initramfs didn't have usplash for the moment13:44
cjwatsonoh, I made that a separate job because I found that less confusing13:44
cjwatsonI fully expected you to tear it apart when you got back though :-) My bits do seem to work for a respectable number of people, but there's obviously the odd case where they don't13:46
cjwatsonit may be that the only reliable fix is to fix usplash's main loop so that we can just send it SIGTERM13:46
ogramat_t, ok, testing an svg i ran into something intresting ... apparently xsplash is not using the 1024x768 picture on my 1024x768 screen ...13:46
cjwatsonI had to nobble that in a really nasty way for the time being13:46
Keybukoh13:46
KeybukI didn't commit the SIGTERM patch? :)13:46
cjwatsonnot so I noticed; the main loop is still a horrible bodge13:47
cjwatsonneeds to be a proper select loop13:47
ogramat_t, i see the tree rings on the svg as well though, but that might be caused by scaling the image actually13:47
cjwatsondoing it in the current loop didn't seem possible in a non-racy way13:47
cjwatson(may actually need to be pselect)13:47
ScottKmvo: I agree about the ugliness, it's just that the ones that have both KDE3 and KDE4 versions have both for a good reason, so there's no way to really pick which to show.13:47
Keybukoh, I didn't bother about that13:48
mvoScottK: yeah, its a tiny amount, for the next cycle I think I will try to come up with some generic way to annotate if two names are identical13:48
KeybukI just changed "for (;;)" to "while (! exit_loop)"13:48
cjwatsonand if usplash just gets SIGTERM/SIGKILLed without cleaning up properly, then you get stuck at a console with no way to get out13:49
Keybukthen select() returns -EINTR13:49
Keybukand all is fine13:49
cjwatsonat least that's what happened to me13:49
mat_togra: did you create a new svg?13:49
Keybukit looks the same as a timeout then13:49
cjwatsonsorry, stuck at the splash screen13:49
mvompt: actually - what do you think about adding the packagename behind the app name if there are multiple apps with the same name (happens e.g. for System Monitor - gnome-system-monitor and ksysguard) and also for kspread (kde3, kde4 version)13:49
ogramat_t, yup ...13:49
ograand it apparently uses 1280x1024 on a 1024x768 framebuffer13:50
mat_togra: ok, so there's nothing wrong with the image then13:50
mptmvo, in brackets, that makes sense13:50
mptmvo, e.g. "System Monitor (ksysguard)"13:51
cjwatsonKeybuk: BTW, spotted a fun gotcha while using the initramfs import hack - totally doesn't work if your job doesn't have a main process defined :)13:51
cjwatsonhence my "exec true" hack for the time being13:51
Keybukright, indeed it deliberately checks for that ;)13:51
Keybukoh13:51
Keybukwhy do you have an "exec true"?13:51
Keybukwhy not just have *usplash* as the main process?13:52
Keybukthen "status usplash" returns its pid and stuff13:52
cjwatsonthat would be more correct, but I was up against beta CD rolling13:52
cjwatsonI think status usplash does work13:52
* Keybuk would have just left usplash off ;)13:52
ogramat_t, nope, gdm now uses the bg image too and it displays it just fine during boot ... which for me results in a "tree rings on, rings off, rings on, rings off, yay i see the desktop" effect13:52
cjwatsonI thought about that, but it's damnably ugly on live CDs13:52
Keybukworking > ugly13:53
cjwatsonand we already force it on for cryptsetup13:53
cjwatsondo we not?13:53
Keybuktrue13:53
cjwatsonso had to make it go away somehow13:53
mptmvo, also, danilo just showed me how to generate a .pot file from the help .xml file. When would be a good time to go over that with you?13:54
ubuntu0ath1What does staging drive mean ? I am talking about the rt2860 module and when will it become normal?13:55
cjwatsonin fact, FWIW, I don't think there's any way that 'exec true' could break 'status usplash', unless upstart is wrong :) by definition, if it's imported a running job from the initramfs, it shouldn't start it again13:56
cjwatsonand certainly it gets stopped correctly, which was what I was mainly concentrating on13:56
cjwatsonwell, modulo this weird bug13:57
mvompt: well, it needs to be done in both ways and we clarify if we can ship that via a update, otherwise I think its not that useful13:58
mvompt: re multiple apps with the name name> I have a look at the code to see what can be done13:58
cjwatsonKeybuk: if you have that SIGTERM patch handy, I can probably run with it13:59
cjwatsonthough probably leave it the way it is for beta now13:59
Keybukif things are working for you, I'd leave it alone13:59
* Keybuk would only break it again13:59
cjwatsonwell, we know they aren't working for everyone, and I'm not actually *happy* with the current state14:00
mptmvo, ok, I reported bug 439353 with the details14:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 439353 in software-center "Help file isn't localizable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43935314:06
mat_togra: right, not  a great experience then14:08
ograyup14:08
ograi'm looking at the xsplash code now to find out what kind of rednering it does14:08
mat_togra: cool14:08
mat_togra: keep in touch with Cody, he's assigned to the bug I think atm14:09
ograi'll report everything i can figure out there14:09
mat_tgreat14:09
pittitkamppeter: tested it on my wife's computer, works fine again (was pretty broken before)14:11
mvompt: thanks14:23
tkamppeterpitti, CUPS usb patch is submitted upstream now: http://www.cups.org/str.php?L335714:27
pittitkamppeter: nice, thanks14:27
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
mvompt: I commited the multiple apps detection, that should be good enough for karmic, I think we could consider writing a "adopt app-install-data" position for someone (or a team) who has fun going over the apps in app-iinstall-data and checking what is appropriate, what is duplicated, what has a bad description etc14:39
mptmvo, I've just been discussing with bigjools and sinzui on the Launchpad team how to make that metadata user-editable14:40
mptso that package maintainers can say "ooh, I like that description better" -> ( Merge )14:40
Keybukpitti: usplash 40 ... did you upload yet?14:45
=== robbiew-afk is now known as robbiew
pittiKeybuk: yes, it's in the queue; but we can just upload another one, or I reject that one and we un-tag14:47
Keybukpitti: it's ok - have some patches but we can do a .4114:48
pittisounds good; I just wanted to fire & forget14:48
pittiso if it's not for beta, .41 seems easier14:48
cgreganAnybody out there have a sec to talk about start-up applications and Gnome-do?14:50
Hatlhi! i updated my kubuntu to 9.10. now i have the following error: http://pastebin.com/m25361f7b any suggestions?14:53
kirklandmdz: it certainly caused the messages in all 3 of the registration logs to say "SUCCESS: ...successfully registered"14:58
kirklandttx: yo14:58
kirklandttx: i'm back from running now, syncing the .2 iso's14:58
ttxkirkland: hey.14:58
kirklandttx: can you quickly bring me up to speed?14:58
ttxthe .2 is -0ubuntu1214:58
ttxthe one with the /var/run fix14:58
kirklandttx: and dropped the localhost fix?14:59
slytherincgregan: gnome-do is in universe repository. #ubuntu-motu is he ideal channel to discuss it.14:59
ttxWe need to revert the chages and upload a 0ubuntu14 that is code-equivalent to 0ubuntu1214:59
ttxthen take our time to understand what went wrong with 0ubuntu1314:59
ttxexcept the unlucky number.14:59
ttxkirkland: its -0ubuntu12. With all its known issues.15:00
ttxso We document manual registration for beta15:00
cgreganthanks slytherin15:00
kirklandttx: what does manual registration look like?15:00
ttxkirkland: sorry for the total reversion but given how many people can actually test the whole process we don't have enough time left now15:00
slytherinHatl: Bug directx on #ubuntu-motu15:01
ttxkirkland: http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/ServerECluster15:01
ttxkirkland: yes, I know, it's troubling.15:01
ttxkirkland: especially since I ran those commands to try to "fix" 0ubuntu13 and it was still failing.15:01
kirklandttx: so IPADDRESSOFTHECLUSTER is the real IP, not "localhost" and not "127.0.0.1"15:02
ttxkirkland: the NC seemed stuck on 127.0.0.1 no matter how much effort I put into it to make him forget it15:02
ttxyes.15:02
kirklandttx: that bothers me15:02
kirklandttx: that's precisely the change i made in the code15:03
ttxkirkland: yes, it's exactly what you do.15:03
kirklandttx: which i think is a good, necessary change15:03
ttxkirkland: I couldn't make it work. It fails to start an instance on the NC15:03
ttxfor some very weird reason, I'm sure15:03
ttxkirkland: do you have a full UEC setup at your disposal now ?15:04
ttxkirkland: oe tat you can test the instance run on ?15:04
ttxs/oe tat/one on which/15:04
kirklandttx: i will shortly15:04
kirklandttx: i suppose i need the .1 iso?15:05
ttxkirkland: at this point we need to revert the changes and upload a ubuntu14 so that people that upgrade after beta don't run into 1315:05
ttxkirkland: 20090930.1 = 1315:05
ttxkirkland: 20090930.2 = 1215:06
ttxI really was hoping that 13 would cure it all, it seemed very reasonable and conservative15:06
kirklandwhat a mess15:06
ttxkirkland: I hope its not a glitch in my test env, but since I'm the only one to test it from A to Z, we don't really have a choice15:07
=== bjf-afk is now known as bjf
=== Keybuk_ is now known as Keybuk
Keybukkirkland: I hear you've been casting aspersions on Upstart? :)15:33
ograKeybuk, hey ... is there a way i could make a udev rule inject a property into /sys/devices/virtual/net/eth0 ?15:35
Keybukogra: no.15:35
ogra:(15:35
Keybukogra: actually, what do you mean "inject a property" ?15:35
ograbug 43868715:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 438687 in network-manager "FEC driver does not set "DRIVER" property in udev which makes network-manager fail" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43868715:35
Keybukif DRIVER is not set, it means that the driver isn't bound to the device15:35
ograNM doesnt like our NIC driver because it doesnt expose "DRIVER"15:35
ograwell, it works fine15:36
ograits just NM that doesnt recognize it because of that15:36
* Keybuk thought DRIVER was set by the pci subsystem15:36
ograthere is no pci subsystem :)15:36
ograwell, no visible one15:36
Keybukoh, fix your stupid architecture then <g>15:36
ograpfft15:36
liwthe totem BBC plugin is only useful for people in the UK, right?15:37
ogramost arm arches dont expose the PCI bus, even if they have one15:37
Keybukso fix that15:37
ograliw, there are some free stations you cen get in other countries15:37
Keybukor fix whatever subsystem you do use15:37
ograKeybuk, can i broow your soldering iron ?15:37
Keybukif your kernel isn't setting DRIVER, that's a kernel bug15:38
ograits not visibly exposed by the HW15:38
Keybukso?15:38
Keybukvisibly exposed doesn't make a difference15:38
KeybukDRIVER is set by a subsystem to indicate the subsystem driver being used15:38
ograso how should i invent a virtual PCI bus then15:38
Keybukyou're being deliberately stupid, right?15:38
ograwell, thats different on a SoC15:38
Keybukyou still have kernel drivers15:39
Keybukand you still have kernel subsystems15:39
ograright, but often no subsystems at all ...15:39
Keybukyou have subsystems15:39
Keybukeven it15:39
Keybukeven if the subsystem is "arm"15:39
ograthe drivers often dont use the subsystems which makes merging the patches so hard15:39
Keybukthey have to15:39
Keybukyou can't have a driver outside of a subsystem15:39
ograright, might be arm15:40
MacSlowpopey, ping15:40
ograor in case of that board mxc15:40
popeyMacSlow: pong15:40
Keybukexactly15:40
Keybukso fix that subsystem to expose DRIVER15:40
pittiliw: well, people from other nations might watch it, too; why?15:40
ogranot the driver itself then ?15:40
pittiliw: but I guess it's very UK centric indeed15:40
MacSlowpopey, hey Alan... can you revisit https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/notify-osd/+bug/334863 again... this should not happen anymore.15:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 334863 in notify-osd "notification are partially off-screen on res change" [Medium,Confirmed]15:40
Keybukogra: no, the way driver core works is that most of this stuff is subsystem owned15:40
popeyMacSlow: sure15:41
ograKeybuk, ok15:41
MacSlowpopey, cool thanks15:41
Keybukotherwise you'd have to fix every driver15:41
liwpitti, just curious, #42131815:41
ograwell, thats what freescale likes to do apparently :)15:41
pittiliw: oh, is it the bbc plugin which causes the totem crash?15:41
ograby working around as many subsystems as they can15:41
liwpitti, there is crash if bbc is only plugin enabled; disabling it removes crash15:42
pittiliw: this one is stupidly hard to track down apparently (seb128 and robert_ancell already beat on it for hours)15:42
liwthe proper fix is to stop using threads, but that's a bit of a non-intrusive change15:42
Keybukogra: you're going to find that there are increasingly more things that expect the kernel to work a particular way15:42
ograKeybuk, in any case thats amitk country ... i was just looking for a quickfix through faking something via udev15:42
Keybukso hacked around or buggy drivers are going to simply not work15:42
=== abms1116 is now known as abms1116|brb
seb128liw, the bbc code didn't change at all since jaunty and that used to not crash15:43
ograyes, i know, i use that hardware every day and discover issues every day :)15:43
liwseb128, that doesn't mean it isn't buggy15:43
seb128liw, right, it's just weird that it started crashing where it was not beofre15:43
Keybukwe have a hard enough problem making the things that work right work ;)15:44
liwseb128, I've become convinced that any Python code that uses threads is inherently buggy; perhaps this just didn't happen to show earlier...15:44
liwseb128, but it might be something in totem itself that just gets hit by the bbc plugin15:44
ograKeybuk, dont tell me ... :)15:44
pittiseb128, liw: we also have new compiler options in karmic, etc., don't we?15:45
liwpitti, yes; also, new kernel, and new libc, and ... anything might affect this15:46
liwhm, epiphany has changed the default home page from what I had configured earlier to http://www.debian.org15:46
seb128that's probably the switch to epiphany-webkit default15:47
liwright15:47
liw(it's still impolite of it)15:47
seb128yeah, not discussing that there is a bug there15:48
Amaranthdoko__: for bug 300948 isn't the fix to just add compiz to the check? current it checks for metacity or kwin, right?15:49
ubottuLaunchpad bug 300948 in openjdk-6 "openjdk : SystemTray.isSupported() bug" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30094815:49
slytherinseb128: Hi. totem-plugins-extra depends on a obsolete package (coherence), the package has been renamed to python-coherence. Should I file a bug about this or will you fix it in next upload (whenever it happens).15:51
seb128slytherin, look if there is a bug open an file one if that's not the case15:52
seb128it will be easier to track this way15:52
liwhmm, totem-python-module.c calls PyEval_SaveThread but not PyEval_InitThreads, I wonder if that's a problem15:53
slytherinseb128: ok15:53
liwoh, the thread module calls is automatically, never mind15:54
pittiliw: hang on, is it using gtk with threads?15:56
liwpitti, totem uses gtk, the bbc plugin uses python threads, at least15:56
pittiliw: I use threads in apport, and I noticed that Qt spectacularly fails if you have qt code in more than one thread15:56
pittiI didn't quite get those crashes in apport-gtk, but still gtk is not thread safe15:57
pittiif it works, it's sheer luck15:57
liwindeed15:57
pittibefore I actually used two mainloops in two threads15:57
pittinow I cleaned it up using some IPC to only have one main loop15:57
MacSlowpopey, btw... on which GPU/driver combo is this LP: #334863?15:57
liwand indeed, the bbc plugin uses _both_ threads and gtk15:58
doko__Amaranth: yes, somebody has to either dig out the upstream patch, or patch our jdk build15:59
Amaranthdoko__: I don't think I have enough RAM to build openjdk :P16:00
doko__Amaranth: swap space is cheap ;p16:01
cjwatsonliw: the intention was that the bbc plugin would be useful outside the UK too, although with a restricted range of content16:02
* ogra offers some nbd swapspace to Amaranth 16:02
slytherinAre alternate CD images for ports architectures likely to be recreated for beta? The images for powerpc and ia64 are oversized.16:03
kirklandKeybuk: potentially; mathiaz investigated that more deeply while i looked for other solutions16:03
ograunlikely unless someone fixes them16:03
kirklandKeybuk: any chance you can sanity check our eucalyptus upstart configuration?16:03
ograsomeone being community16:04
kirklandKeybuk: one thing I don't understand is that there are several that we need to run in series, and it seems they're executing in parallel16:04
kirklandKeybuk: which is causing non-deterministic behavior16:04
cjwatsonslytherin: do they actually build at the moment? I saw some build failures ...16:05
Keybukkirkland: if you tell me what packages to look at16:05
liwhm, I see the same problem with the BBC plugin on jaunty16:05
kirklandKeybuk: bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/eucalyptus/ubuntu16:06
kirklandKeybuk: they're all in the debian directory16:06
slytherincjwatson: they were built last on 29th September which is same as non-ports arch. - http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ports/daily/current/16:07
cjwatsonslytherin: ok, somebody in the community will have to fix the oversizedness then, as ogra says16:09
cjwatson(or tell us what to do)16:09
slytherincjwatson: Any hints where to look for root cause?16:10
Keybukkirkland: wow, messy16:11
KeybukI suspect you need "task" in some of them16:11
cjwatsonslytherin: not really, you just have to plug through the package list and work out what's unnecessary16:11
slytherinhmm16:11
Keybuke.g. eucalyptus-cc-publication looks more tasky to me16:11
Keybukas does eucalyptus-cc-registration16:12
Keybukeucalyptus-cloud is just freaky16:12
Keybukno idea why that's done the way it is16:12
Keybuknot even entirely sure that *works* :p16:12
Keybukeucalyptus-sc-registration looks tasky16:12
Keybukeucalyptus-walrus-registration looks freaky16:13
Keybukas does eucalyptus-walrus16:13
=== marjomercado is now known as marjo
highvoltagewow.16:16
crescendoIs there a place I can see the reasons for package inclusion decisions in each release of Ubuntu?  For example, I'd like to see why xchat-gnome was chosen over xchat.16:17
popeyMacSlow: intel16:19
MacSlowpopey, ok16:19
seb128crescendo, how chosen? it's not installed by default16:21
crescendoseb128: Err, I suppose that package is a bad example, but xchat-gnome is now the only on in the "supported" repos, but xchat is not.  There are other packages that I'm interested in.16:22
seb128I don't think there is one summary for those16:22
crescendoseb128: mainly, to discern the differences between package distributions and come to a decision on which package I should use personally16:23
seb128it's often mailing list or uds discussions ie blueprints16:23
crescendoseb128: have a link, or is it non-centralized?16:23
seb128as said there is not one location for those16:23
seb128it depends of the software16:23
crescendoOi. Who manages the Ubuntu repos?  Maybe I could start there16:23
seb128it's usually discussed by the group of people concerned16:23
directhexor irc meeting logs16:23
seb128ie ubuntu-desktop for desktop choices16:24
slytherincjwatson: Is there any way to create a local image so that I can compare it with the official one to check what is causing problem?16:24
cjwatsonslytherin: that's a lot of work and not actually very helpful in this kind of case, IME16:24
seb128crescendo, the discussions come usually from teams working on those16:24
seb128ie xchat-gnome is an #ubuntu-desktop topic16:24
seb128the rational for this one is that it's using GNOME infrastructures, cleaner ui, etc16:25
cjwatsonthe ubuntu-archive team manages the Ubuntu repositories, but we don't as a general rule take executive decisions on what to include or what not to include - we're an operational team16:25
slytherincjwatson: I wondered why we shipped both 32 bit and 64 bit kernels but that doesn't seem to have caused problem before this.16:25
cjwatsonas seb128 says, executive decisions are up to the teams with most direct knowledge16:25
cjwatsonslytherin: we have to, but it certainly puts more pressure on powerpc16:25
cjwatsonslytherin: there's no one kernel that boots on both powerpc32/64, although the userspace is the same16:26
crescendo@cjwatson: is there a log kept anywhere as to who made what changes?16:26
cjwatsoncrescendo: there's the seeds, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.karmic et al16:26
cjwatsoncrescendo: that's not everything, but it sounds closest to what you want16:26
cjwatsonalso .../platform.karmic16:27
crescendoaha, this is perfect. I have enough to chew on for a while now, thanks16:27
cjwatsonalso http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement16:28
cjwatsonand the germinate(1) manual page for the technical structure involved there16:28
=== abms1116|brb is now known as abms1116
MacSlowpopey, I can verify LP: #334863 to be fixed with the latest notiy-osd 0.9.22 under Karmic16:32
cjwatsonslytherin: ia64 would be a different problem, presumably, since I'm fairly sure it only has one kernel these days16:34
slytherincjwatson: I found one problem but that may not explain oversize. It just explains the uninstallability of many packages (http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ports/daily/current/report.html). Older synaptic version (ubuntu4 instead of ubuntu5).16:35
=== zul_ is now known as zul
cjwatsonslytherin: is the package out of date in the archive too?16:37
cjwatsonapparently not, presumably it was just slow to build16:37
cjwatsonslangasek: ok if I trigger a new ports/alternate build?16:38
slytherincjwatson: No. Looks like the ports images were built long before non-ports images. Hence this inconsistency.16:38
slangasekcjwatson: go for it16:38
cjwatsonslytherin: not unusual16:38
cjwatson</earworm>16:39
slytherincjwatson: may be the cron job time modified and not reverted later.16:40
slangasekKeybuk: hmm, I was just going to call the job 'statd' actually; do you have a preference for 'rpc.statd'?16:41
cjwatsonslytherin: no, they're normally at different times16:41
* slangasek thinks the latter is ugly :)16:41
cjwatsonslytherin: they're intentionally independent cron jobs16:41
slytherincjwatson: That's all for now. I will take another look later for more analysis.16:42
Keybukslangasek: no preference16:45
=== ian_brasil_afk is now known as ian_brasil
slangasekKeybuk: ok.  so, one outstanding corner case with the nfs-common stuff: pre-upstart, it was possible to have a system work reliably with /usr on an NFSv3 filesystem and /home on NFSv4 w/ gss; now, our choices are to wait for "FHS" (including /home) before starting gssd, or to assume /usr is local - any thoughts on that?16:48
slangasekI think I'm going to go with "assume /usr is local", but it doesn't feel correct to me :)16:49
slangasekconveniently, if /usr is on NFSv3, we don't /need/ rpc.gssd or rpc.idmapd, so it also doesn't hurt if they fail to start16:50
KeybukI'm not sure I'm following16:51
Keybukwhy doesn't it work?16:51
slangasekKeybuk: rpc.gssd and rpc.idmapd are in /usr/sbin16:51
Keybukok, so why can't you have them "start on filesystem" ?16:51
slangasekto properly ensure /usr is available, we should start on filesystem16:51
slangasekwhich precludes using NFSv4 for mounting /home16:51
slangaseksince 'filesystem' doesn't get signaled unless /home is mounted16:52
Keybukwhy does it preclude it?16:52
slangasek"since 'filesystem' doesn't get signaled unless /home is mounted" - that's true, isn't it?  I know I saw bugs about that16:53
Keybukyes16:53
Keybukbut why does it preclude it?16:53
Keybukif rpc.statd and rpc.nfsd are on /16:53
slangasekif you want /home to be an NFSv4 mount?16:53
Keybukthey are started on local-filesystems16:53
slangasekyou need idmapd (and possibly gssd) to do the NFSv4 mount16:54
Keybukoh, I see what you mean16:54
Keybukthere's no event for "I have some of the filesystem but not /home"16:54
slangasekright16:54
Keybukif we need that, we could add that ;)16:54
slangasekI think it'd be a good thing to have16:54
slangasekin the meantime, I'll wire it to use 'local-filesystems', I think that's closest16:55
Keybuk*nods*16:55
Keybukkirkland: ignoring the "wow, I didn't know you could do that" and "I don't even know why you would want to do that" pieces of the scripts17:05
Keybukhttp://people.canonical.com/~scott/eucalyptus.png17:05
Keybuk^ that's how I think Upstart will run those17:05
Keybukif the aim is not to run things in parallel, fail appears to have happened <g>17:06
kirklandKeybuk: :-)17:07
Keybukkirkland: what about that graph strikes you as wrong?17:07
Keybukwithout deeper understanding, I can't tell whether that's what's intended or not17:07
kirklandKeybuk: well that's cool17:08
Keybukthere are up to 5 parallel paths17:08
kirklandKeybuk: let me check with euca-guys17:08
KeybukI should so write a Perl script to do that17:09
Keybukin fact, I'm going to!17:10
cjwatsonKeybuk: point of information: e8s ;-)17:12
cjwatson"point of arithmetic", perhaps17:12
LaneyKeybuk: hey, that util-linux/udev bug (by-uuid symlinks pointing to block devices instead of mdadm partitions) seems fixed, is that right?17:13
Laneyhttp://dpaste.com/100429/17:13
slangasekcjwatson: hah, you took the time to count? :)17:14
DarxusI need a karmic live cd containing a package that went into the archive today to test a bug fix.  How do I get that?17:15
cjwatsonslangasek: my subconscious mind does it for me for words under about 12 letters, I think17:15
DarxusLooks like my best option may be to wait for the next time this file is rebuilt?  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/karmic-desktop-i386.iso17:17
Keybukcjwatson: see, I can'17:19
Keybukcjwatson: see, I can't even figure out how many letters there are in that word!17:19
KeybukLaney: it should be fixed17:19
* ogra hands Keybuk a keyb-uk :)17:20
cjwatsonchrisccoulson: offhand, do you have any idea what happened to the syncio option in ntfs-3g, that we used to carry as an Ubuntu patch?17:21
LaneyKeybuk: good stuff17:21
Laneythanks17:21
chrisccoulsoncjwatson - i'm not sure about that17:21
cjwatsonDarxus: if there isn't anything new enough in that location, then waiting (unfortunately until after beta) is probably your best option, yes17:21
chrisccoulsoni don't remember removing any patches17:21
cjwatsonchrisccoulson: I'm speculating whether it might be the cause of Wubi instability we're seeing17:21
Darxuscjwatson: After beta?17:22
cjwatsonDarxus: yes, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule17:22
cjwatsonDarxus: what fix, out of interest?17:22
Darxuscjwatson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-utils/+bug/41093317:22
ubottuLaunchpad bug 410933 in alsa-utils "No sound in fresh jaunty install until disabling "external amplifier"" [Low,Incomplete]17:22
DarxusSound doesn't work by default on some hardware.17:23
Darxuscjwatson: Oh, beta is tomorrow?  Why is that unfortunate?17:23
DarxusJust because it would've been better to get the fix in before beta?17:23
cjwatsonDarxus: um, so17:24
cjwatsonDarxus: nobody claimed in that bug that any particular fix had gone into the archive17:24
slangasekDarxus: there haven't been any alsa-utils changes accepted into the archive that aren't on that CD17:24
cjwatsonDarxus: Daniel just asked you to test with the most current thing17:24
DarxusAhh, thanks.17:24
DarxusI can do that.17:24
DarxusThe bug will still be there though :P17:24
chrisccoulsoncjwatson - from a first glance, it looks like it might have been dropped off during a merge17:24
cjwatsonchrisccoulson: that's what it looked like to me; I was wondering if there was a reason you knew about, as the merger17:25
DarxusI'm going to grab the iso I previously mentioned then....17:25
cjwatsonof course wubi passes it in such a way that I'm pretty sure it won't actually make it to mount17:25
cjwatsonbut ANYWAY, I can fix that bit17:25
chrisccoulsoncjwatson - no, i don't remember dropping it off deliberately.17:25
DarxusThe fact that, at least briefly, the status was changed to "Fix Committed" was confusing.17:26
chrisccoulsonbut that was sometime last cycle17:26
slangasekDarxus: how do you know the bug will still be there?  The only information on the bug report is about jaunty, not karmic17:26
cjwatsonchrisccoulson: ok, thanks; I'll look at restoring it, so that at least we can eliminate that as a cause17:26
Darxusslangasek: I'm just being pessimistic.17:27
kirklandKeybuk: would you mind making a once-over pass across our upstart scripts, and making some suggestions?17:28
kirklandKeybuk: sounds like you took a quick look and saw somethings that were non-standard17:28
cjwatsonchrisccoulson: we're seeing various symptoms, but at least one of them is consistent with stuff just not being synced to disk, hence this hunch17:29
Darxuscjwatson: Could you clarify why you said that being after beta would be unfortunate?17:30
cjwatsonDarxus: it's irrelevant now, since you're not actually waiting for a fix that's in the archive; but if you had been, it would presumably be unfortunate for you that you would have needed to wait17:31
cjwatsonDarxus: FWIW Fix Committed never means fix-in-the-archive, in any case - that's Fix Released17:32
Darxuscjwatson: Why would I have needed to wait?  Isn't beta tomorrow?17:33
cjwatsonys17:33
cjwatsonyes17:33
cjwatsonbut quite possibly late tomorrow17:33
Darxuscjwatson: I'm not that impatient :)  Thanks for the clarification.17:34
seb128cjwatson, in what templates are the ubiquity translations usually?17:44
seb128cjwatson, ie the bootloader option screen17:44
cjwatsonseb128: which screen exactly? what's the text17:45
seb128cjwatson, "Install boot loader" for example17:45
seb128the whole screen is not translated in french there which seems weird17:45
cjwatsonthat *is* odd, that string is translated in the source17:46
cjwatsonubiquity/ubiquity-debconf, BTW17:46
cjwatsonI think the dialogs just aren't translated17:48
cjwatsonseb128: please file a bug on ubiquity about this specific thing17:49
seb128cjwatson, ok, thanks17:49
Keybukkirkland: didn't I just do that?17:49
Keybukthey look absolutely crazy to me17:50
Keybuklike even just the first one17:50
Keybukyou have a pre-start script to pick up options and write them to a file that the exec line picks up?17:50
KeybukWHY?!17:50
Keybuk  script17:51
Keybuk          . /etc/eucalyptus/eucalyptus.conf17:51
Keybuk          exec avahi-publish -s $(hostname) _eucalyptus._tcp $CC_PORT txtvers=1 protovers=1.5.0 type=cluster\17:51
Keybuk  end script17:51
Keybuketc.17:51
KeybukI'm entirely unsure why you need a post-start script, and can't just make apache daemonise17:52
Keybuk(I don't think it detaches until it's listening, no?)17:52
Keybukthere are scripts that only seem to exist to poll17:52
cjwatsonI think we do need to poll, there's a gap between eucalyptus listening on the port and actually working, AIUI17:53
mathiazKeybuk: ^^ yes17:53
Keybukso yes, I'm afraid of reviewing these in case17:53
Keybuk a) they eat me17:53
Keybuk b) it somehow results in me getting some kind of responsibility to fix them17:53
slangasekone of those is polling apache; is that actually needed?17:53
macohaha17:54
kirklandKeybuk: alrighty, thanks17:54
kirklandKeybuk: can you tell me how to figure out what this means:17:54
kirklandSep 30 11:45:40 cluster init: job_process_handler: Ignored event 1 (0) for process 84417:54
mathiazslangasek: well - apache2 is started with axis, which needs to deploy jar files17:55
mathiazslangasek: IIUC polling is necessary to know when the java services are actually operational17:56
Keybukkirkland: it means that process 844 exited17:56
=== rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk
Keybukand that Upstart didn't know about process 84417:56
Keybukwell17:56
Keybuk*maybe* didn17:57
Keybuk't know about it17:57
Keybukdepends whether you see a message on the following line17:57
mathiazkirkland: are you still tracking down why the cc-registration job isn't started by upstart?17:57
Keybukwell17:57
Keybukthat could be because of the wacky way in which e8s cloud is written17:58
kirklandmathiaz: yes, nurmi and i are looking at that right now17:58
kirklandmathiaz: we're walking the verbose syslog line by line17:58
Keybukkirkland: may I see it?17:58
kirklandKeybuk: http://pastebin.com/f10933e1917:59
kirklandKeybuk: basically, the eucalyptus-walrus-registration *is* running17:59
kirklandKeybuk: but eucalyptus-cc-registration and eucalyptus-sc-registration *are not*17:59
kirklandKeybuk: we're trying to get to the bottom of why18:00
mathiazkirkland: in my testing sc-registration will run once cc-registration has run18:00
mathiazkirkland: I tested it by doing: sudo start eucalyptus-cc-registration18:01
mathiazkirkland: that run both the cc and the sc registration jobs18:01
Keybukmaybe they timed out?18:03
Keybukif you comment out the "start on" in the dbus-reconnect.conf, do they work?18:03
Keybuk(eventually)18:03
kirklandKeybuk: checking18:04
Keybuke8s-cloud isn't started18:04
Keybukits post-start is still running18:04
cjwatsonseb128: confirmed that it's busted for ubiquity dialogs in general18:05
Keybukah, right18:05
Keybukit finishes after dbus-reconnect18:05
Keybukyou hit *that* bug ;)18:05
* Keybuk bets that disabling that job will make it work for you18:06
Riddellmvo: the dist-upgrade tool still doesn't have the kbluetooth4 fix in it?18:11
seb128cjwatson, it's weird, the dialog is displayed if I run ubiquity again18:11
seb128displayed -> translated18:11
kirklandKeybuk: disabling which job?18:13
kirklandKeybuk: dbus-reconnect?18:13
Keybukeys18:14
kirklandKeybuk: how do i disable a job properly?18:14
Keybukjust comment out the "start on" line18:14
cjwatsonseb128: yep, that makes sense from the bug18:17
cjwatsonseb128: no need to file it if you haven't already, I'm fixing it now18:17
cjwatsonthe bug is in the thing that translates widgets on the fly after you change the language on the first screen18:17
seb128cjwatson, ok, no I didn't yet I was busy on something else, I just looked if there was one filed and I didn't find one18:17
seb128cjwatson, ah ok, thanks for the quick fixing ;-)18:18
cjwatsonsomebody on the translators list was complaining about something that sounded similar18:18
cjwatsonthere we go, much better. just need to check Kubuntu too18:21
dpmcjwatson, seb128: I think what was mentioned on the translators list was a problem with the slideshow, not with bootloader; bug 43071918:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 430719 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu "Slideshow is empty" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43071918:21
cjwatsondpm: not that, the stuff Timo Jyrinki was asking about18:22
dpmcjwatson: ah, ok, sorry, I was following the wrong conversation18:23
cjwatsonhe mentioned the partition create/edit dialogs not being translated, iirc, which is the same bug as seb128's18:23
dpmah, yes, thanks18:24
cjwatsonseb128: fix committed, thanks again18:31
avbguys, seems update-initramfs has an issue. update-initramfs -u -k all doesnt pack usplash for me because its not processing framebuffer hook.18:32
kirklandKeybuk: commenting out dbus-reconnect did seem to help quite a bit18:32
kirklandKeybuk: what bug number is that, so that we can track it?18:33
avbit has OPTIONS=USPLASH there and seems i dont have this option defined somewhere. I was upgrating from jaunty to karmic with apt-get18:33
cjwatsonavb: usplash isn't included by default any more except in certain situations. Put USPLASH=y in /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf if you want to force it on18:33
cjwatsonthis is an intentional change documented in the changelog18:33
Riddellcjwatson: what needs checked in kubuntu?18:34
avbcjwatson: how is splash screen ought to work now?18:34
avbcjwatson: thing is that im not getting splash at all. or it was designed like this?18:34
avbanother thing will release include 2.28.1 or it will be released with 2.28.0?18:36
cjwatsonRiddell: nothing, I checked it18:36
cjwatsonavb: the intent is to get to xsplash as quickly as possible; running usplash slows that down18:36
avbi see18:36
Riddellok, thanks, for whatever it was :)18:36
cjwatsonavb: it's not quite all as neat as intended yet18:36
cjwatsonRiddell: translation bug that was only in the GTK frontend18:36
avb:) i agree18:37
avbthing is that gnome-display-properties has a bug with mirroring displays with a different resolution. and it will be fixed only in 2.28.118:37
cjwatsonwe've always included gnome point releases18:37
cjwatsonfor some value of "always" anyway18:37
avbnow if you going to mirror 2 displays with diff resolutions, it will crash application18:37
avbthere is a patch in bugzilla, so i wonder if its needed to be backported18:38
cjwatson18:37 <cjwatson> we've always included gnome point releases18:38
avbyeh. okay18:38
avbthanks18:38
Keybukkirkland: it's more of a meta-bug18:46
keesjames_w: where are the distro-tracking bzr trees again?18:48
james_wcode.launchpad.net/ubuntu18:48
keesjames_w: ah-ha, thanks!18:48
james_wwith +source and /karmic/ etc. as usual18:48
james_wsometimes things are where you would expect :-)18:49
keeslp:ubuntu/$release/$source/$release ?18:49
mathiazkees: lp:ubuntu/karmic/openldap18:52
james_wwhere "karmic" can be any suite18:55
james_we.g. jaunty-security18:55
james_wif there was nothing uploaded to said suite then you will get "not a branch"18:56
seb128cjwatson, thanks for fixing the issue ;-)18:56
=== abms1116 is now known as abms1116|off-for
kirklandKeybuk: is it tracked in launchpad?18:57
Keybukkirkland: no18:57
Keybukunless you count a spec/18:58
Keybukhttps://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/upstart/+spec/states18:58
mvoRiddell: no, its still in the queue but its upload18:58
mvoRiddell: you mean the kbluetooth -> kbluetooth4 fix, right?18:58
Keybukthough that18:59
Keybukthough that's a _very_ old draft ;)18:59
=== abms1116|off-for is now known as abms1116
keesjames_w: aaah, cool19:02
james_whaven't quite worked out the best way to say "latest in any pocket of series X" yet though19:02
mathiazjames_w: lp:ubuntu/jaunty-latest/srcpkg ?19:03
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
mathiazkirkland: IIRC once you've aggreed to boot a degraded raid array, subsequent reboots should'd ask whether to boot from a degraded array - it should be automatic?19:10
kirklandmathiaz: if you agreed in debconf, that's true19:11
mathiazkirkland: ah - in debconf19:11
kirklandmathiaz: if you mean in the initramfs, that's true for your "current degraded event"19:11
mathiazkirkland: I aggreed in the initramfs - the first time19:11
kirklandmathiaz: right, you only get that question in initramfs when mdadm detects that the raid has just become degraded19:12
kirklandmathiaz: if you tell mdadm to boot it, then it says "okay, cool, so now you expect this raid to be degraded, i won't ask you again"19:12
mathiazkirkland: ok - so on the next reboots, it shouldn't ask?19:12
mathiazkirkland: ok - that's not happening then19:12
mathiazkirkland: I'm still asked what I wanna do19:13
kirklandmathiaz: right; until you re-add the disk, and the raid is sync'd again19:13
kirklandmathiaz: and you're not creating new degraded events in between boots?19:13
mathiazkirkland: hm wait - now it works as expected19:13
kirklandmathiaz: right, the logic is slightly complicated19:14
mathiazkirkland: hm - missing drives aren't supposed to be automatically added to a degraded raid array, right?19:20
Keybukkirkland: can you file an ubuntu bug specifically about the dbus issue?19:20
Keybukthere's a trivial fix for that I can do after beta19:21
slangasekKeybuk: wrt sreadahead profiling automatically on boot - is there no need to have a "default" profile for the liveCD itself?19:32
Keybukslangasek: did we ever use readahead on the live cd?19:33
Keybukdunno ;)19:33
slangasekit's installed in the livefs19:33
Keybukthat probably means that sreadahead profiles the live cd right now? :)19:34
slangasekbut only on "first boot", so it doesn't help? :)19:34
slangasekanyway, if the answer is that this isn't worth the effort, that's fine19:35
Keybukthe problem was generating one for every single image19:35
Keybukotherwise you end up with kubuntu using a ubuntu profile19:35
Keybukand they whine19:35
slangasekah19:36
davmor2Keybuk: no surely a whine profile would install windows ;)19:36
slangasekKeybuk: I'm trying to work through the fact that upstart 'restart' doesn't have the same semantics as policy requires for init scripts... the only thing causing performance problems on boot is the /etc/rc*.d/ symlinks, right?  So if we don't have /those/, then an upstart-job symlink in /etc/init.d doesn't hurt; so we could arguably use the same invoke-rc.d handling for maintainer scripts in dh_installinit if we added those symlinks?19:47
slangasek(reducing the debhelper delta, making it easier to get certain packages to dtrt - such as nfs-common, which needs to use restart-after-upgrade)19:48
Keybukbut then what happens when we *do* what the right semantics?19:49
Keybuke.g. from debhelper19:49
AmaranthI thought apparmor loading got moved into initramfs19:50
slangasekwell, that's a policy change that hasn't been worked through yet19:50
slangasekbut currently, we silently ignore all failures to start jobs19:50
* Amaranth still has an init script running for it too19:50
Keybuksure, there's bugs here and work items19:50
Keybukthat's the side effect of developing things as we go ;)19:50
slangasekand the reason restart-on-upgrade breaks for nfs-common is that the postinst snippet does "restart" if [ -n "$2" ] - so you can't use that when /upgrading/ from a pre-upstart version19:51
Keybukso that should be start19:51
Keybuk?19:51
slangasekit should be start when upgrading from pre-upstart, yes19:52
slangasekand restart otherwise19:52
slangasekbut the preceding debhelper snippet would have dtrt with "restart" anyway, by design19:52
slangasek(for values of "dtrt" including "start the service on upgrade if it wasn't previously started", which is the behavior currently expected based on policy)19:53
Keybukit would have also started the service if it wasn't already running19:53
Keybukwhich is broken by design19:53
Keybukafter all, half the bonus of designing a new init system is that you get to design a new policy at the same time19:54
Keybukand fix problems with the old19:54
Keybukit seems backward to tie ourselves to the old policy with the new init system19:54
Keybukespecially the old policy isn't compatible with it19:54
slangasekbroken, perhaps; but known and consistent, and I'm not convinced that the new isn't also broken in ways that haven't been identified yet19:55
Keybukthe point is that if we figure out ways in which the new is broken, we fix them ;)19:55
slangasekand "can't use restart-on-upgrade for existing packages" isn't broken enough?19:56
slangasekor do you have some other way to fix this?19:56
slangasekhaving to write dozens of lines of postinst code by hand irks me19:56
KeybukI can't think of a way off hand to fix it19:57
Keybukbut it's something we should figure out19:57
Keybukotherwise you're in a strange state where the old sysv service is still running19:57
Keybukbut has no init.d script or rc0.d symlink to bring it down on shutdown19:57
slangaseknah, I already wrote the code to stop the job by hand too19:57
Keybukthis was why we talked about using invoke-rc.d for maintainer scripts that aren't upstart-only though right?19:57
Keybukas a temporary measure19:58
slangasekwell, that's exactly what I was proposing19:58
Keybuksince the non-upstart-only ones have symlinks in /etc/init.d19:58
Keybukoh19:58
Keybuk;)19:58
Keybukright, I didn't have any objections to that19:58
slangasekwell, ok, not exactly - I'm also wondering if upstart-only shouldn't also provide the symlink in /etc/init.d and use invoke-rc.d in the maintainer script19:59
Keybukmy objection has only ever been to things that didn't exist as init scripts before19:59
slangasekright, ok19:59
Keybukbecause those are going to be written with upstart in mind19:59
Keybukso it's proper that they obey upstarty semantics19:59
slangaseknfs-common has a pre-existing init script, but splits to 4 upstart jobs... so there's no good fit19:59
Keybukif it never existed in the sysv world, it's confusing to expect it to behave that way20:00
slangasekanyway, --restart-after-upgrade --upstart-only is also broken for any package which adds a new upstart job20:00
Keybukis it?20:01
=== korn_ is now known as c_korn
Keybukit won't result in it being started20:01
Keybukbut it should also not result in it failing20:01
slangasekyes, that's broken :)20:01
Keybukwhich is correct behaviour20:01
Keybukno, it's correct behaviour20:01
slangasekit's "correct" behavior because you've specified this is what it will do, but I don't believe that's actually the behavior anyone wants20:01
Keybukreally?  one of the biggest complaints I ever hear about Debian init script policy is that if you stop a service, it gets started again by apt-get upgrade20:02
slangasekyes, I'm talking about a *new* upstart job20:02
slangasekadded to an existing package, and it needs to get started on upgrade20:02
Keybukthen it wouldn't use restart? :)20:02
Keybukit'd use ordinary postinst scripts20:02
slangasekif you're using --restart-on-upgrade --upstart-only, it would call restart and ignore the failure20:03
Keybukrestart-after-upgrade itself is a workaround for brokenness in initscripts20:03
Keybukupstart will have quite different behaviours for this stuff20:04
KeybukI'm quite happy to work out what those should be in a way that makes sense though :)20:04
Keybukhowever if someone hands me a copy of Debian Policy as the "right" way, I shall burn it20:04
Keybuk...and them :p20:04
slangasekif we don't use restart-after-upgrade, then we're calling "start", which doesn't restart the job if already running, right?20:04
Keybukslangasek: right20:04
slangasekI'm flame-retardant :P20:04
Keybukbut then restart doesn't do what you think either :p20:04
slangasekKeybuk: so what ensures that we re-exec the newly-installed binary?20:05
Keybukstop && start20:05
slangasekKeybuk: so the current init script snippets don't do that, either20:05
Keybukrestart doesn't reload the *.conf file20:05
Keybukit restarts the service with the configuration it currently has20:05
Keybukone assumes after an upgrade that will have changed20:05
slangasekso to get sensible package behavior (after upgrade, the right binary is running with the right config), we have to call stop && start, and that's not happening today20:06
Keybukstop ; start has the benefit of starting the service ;)20:06
Keybuk(if it wasn't already running)20:07
slangasekso that's what --restart-after-upgrade should actually be calling20:07
Keybukit does start sysadmin-stopped services20:07
Keybukbut so does stop-in-prerm/start-in-postinst which most packages still do20:07
Keybukthis is better fixed with the "mark for upgrade" functionality20:07
slangasekis that available yet? :)20:07
Keybuklol, no20:07
slangasekthen I think it's important to fix the debhelper snippets to give behavior consistent with what we expect of sysvinit-using services on upgrade20:08
Keybukso stop ; start is probably right for that case20:08
Keybuksure, not disagreeing :)20:08
Keybuk(you can tell when I disagree because I don't suggest workarounds :p)20:17
mathiazslangasek: I'd like to document bug 427048 for Beta - is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/TechnicalOverview#Known%20issues the right place?20:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 427048 in grub2 "grub2 needs to install the bootloader to each disk in a RAID1 array providing /boot" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42704820:19
slangasekmathiaz: yes, please!20:20
mathiazkirkland: is there a workaround for bug 427048?20:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 427048 in grub2 "grub2 needs to install the bootloader to each disk in a RAID1 array providing /boot" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42704820:24
kirklandmathiaz: manually install to each disk in the array20:24
mathiazkirkland: how do you do that? grub-install /dev/sdb?20:24
kirklandmathiaz: up20:25
kirklandyup20:25
Keybukif we put the boot loader in the partition instead of the mbr ...20:26
Keybuk</age old whine of mine>20:26
kirklandttx: ping21:01
kirklandttx: how much disk space do you have on your cluster machine?21:02
ttxkirkland: 160Gb21:03
kirklandttx: okay21:03
ttx-6 swap21:03
kirklandttx: and on your node?21:04
ttxnode is 300Gb -6swap21:04
kirklandk21:04
ttxkirkland: how is it going ? did you reproduce it when starting an instance ?21:05
slacker_nlanyone familiar with apprt, i cannot find the ubuntu-bug file in there21:05
kirklandttx: so the localhost/ipaddr change is "good", that results in successful walrus, sc, and cc registration *every* time21:05
kirklandttx: i wasn't able to reproduce the situation you had, where you had to restart the cloud21:06
kirklandttx: i just waited a few minutes, and everything was registered, and available just fine21:06
kirklandttx: i just tried to run an instance21:06
kirklandttx: that failed, but it's because I filled up my small hard disk (32G SSD)21:06
kirklandttx: so i'm starting over, with a bigger disk21:06
ttxkirkland: did you check if the nc got polled ?21:07
ttxnc.log should show stuff every 8 sec or so21:07
ttxwithout a restart it never gets polled21:07
ttx(at least in my case)21:07
kirklandttx: yes, nc polling is working like a champ21:08
kirklandttx: no restart21:08
ttxbeh21:08
ttxdid Dan confirm that it should not be needed ?21:09
=== fabrice_sp__ is now known as fabrice_sp
ttx(he always added it on his own testlogs)21:09
kirklandttx: he said he was surprised that i didn't have to restart21:09
kirklandttx: he says they have a fix upstream that we need to take to fix that21:10
ttxkirkland: hm, I always had to as well.21:10
ttxyou should be able to confirm with your next run21:10
ttxkirkland: did you test from ISO install or from package install ?21:11
kirklandttx: iso, purged 12, installed 1321:12
ttxkirkland: I was wondering if that would not introduce a difference, the fact that you don't start up things during the iso install/postinsts21:12
ttxkirkland: maybe it's possible to fake an ISO run by rebundling it21:15
kirklandttx: mdz did that a few times, with much error and great pain, last week21:15
ttxkirkland: what we could do...21:16
ttxkirkland: test that 13 is alright, test that installing beta (with workaround) + upgrading to 13 is alright21:17
ttxreleasing with what we have21:17
ttxand then validate daily ISOs starting beta+121:17
ttxbeta would be 12, users would upgrade to 13, and then we can take time to make sure daily ISOs with 13 are ok21:18
Keybukbzr: ERROR: 77afdcdf611d88cf3e8b0806fd04c56c.tix is not an index of type <class 'bzrlib.btree_index.BTreeGraphIndex'>.21:18
KeybukW. T. F.21:18
ttxkirkland: how does that sound ?21:19
kirklandttx: that's what i've liked all along21:20
kirklandttx: i think 13 is the direction we need to go21:20
kirklandttx: though there are still bugs to be fixed21:20
ttxkirkland: I'm concerned by the difference we experience in testing though21:21
ttx(wrt the need to restart)21:21
kirklandi'm going to leave my test env in my dmz for now21:21
kirklandif you'd like to ssh in and watch along, let me know21:21
kirklandi'll drop your ssh key on those boxes21:21
kirklandttx: nurmi and i are on it now21:21
ttxplease do the full run with 13, up to running instances. Ideally by setting up 12 with workaround first, then upgrade to 1321:23
ttxif that works, we know we can leave 13 in21:23
ttxI'll validate that as well tomorrow morning21:23
ttxkirkland: what did you exactly do on the node side ?21:24
kirklandttx: on the node side?21:24
kirklandttx: i install byobu, and tail -f a bunch of log files21:25
kirklandttx: daz it21:25
ttxkirkland: on the nc, you also installed 12, purged, and installed 13 ?21:25
kirklandttx: yes21:25
ttxplease also validate the beta+upgrade scenario on that side21:26
ttx(I don't think it would change anything, but...)21:26
kirklandttx: okay, i'll do that21:26
kirklandttx: i'm reinstalling my cloud now21:26
ttxkirkland: welcome to the club21:26
kirklandttx: how much longer are you around?21:26
ttxa few minutes21:26
ttxkirkland: please summarize your findings at the end in an email, saying that keeping 13 is apparently non-harmless for users to upgarde to, and allows to have dailies to debug the rest21:28
ttx(of course if you manage to make it fully work in a 12 + manual reg + upgrade to 13 scenario :)21:28
ttxI wish I had Dan in my box in my morning.21:29
kirklandttx: yikes21:31
kirklandttx: okay, will do21:35
* ttx shuts down21:46
cjwatsonKeybuk: for a long time we weren't putting it in a partition largely through inertia; but one problem that's become evident relatively recently is that if you put it in a partition boot record then you generally have to use blocklists, i.e. grub has to remember the location of all the blocks comprising what used to be called its stage1.5 (fs handling, etc.)21:48
Keybukwhy?  it shouldn't make any difference21:48
cjwatsonKeybuk: because most filesystem types don't leave significant enough space for a boot loader21:48
Keybukyou have the same number of bytes as you do in the MBR no?21:49
cjwatsonno, not true21:49
Keybukah21:49
cjwatsonif you put it in the MBR, there's normally 32KB or so space after it where the bootloader can be embedded21:49
cjwatsonwhich isn't used by any filesystem21:49
Keybuksee, this is why we should just have a small FAT partition at the front of the disk, with all kernels and bootloaders and initramfses and stuff on them21:49
Keybukthen you can write a trivially tiny bootloader to pick one21:49
Keybuksomeone should write a standard that requires that21:50
cjwatsonso, today, putting it in a filesystem means that more or less random filesystem changes (e.g. defragmentation in the case of ext4) can cause you to have to reinstall grub21:50
Keybukand then fail to get any OS developer or OEM to actually embrace it21:50
Keybukexcept Apple21:50
cjwatsonshame the EFI standard is a right pain in other areas really ...21:50
cjwatsonBIOS designed by committee, hooray21:50
cjwatsonor BIOS with big long method names for everything21:50
cjwatsonGPT is really the only good bit of it, and you don't need EFI for GPT21:50
Keybukaye, *sigh*21:51
bluefoxicywhatthe friggin hell?22:01
bluefoxicyplugging in a wire is fatal22:01
bluefoxicyokay.22:01
bluefoxicythat's retarded.22:01
bluefoxicyokay22:03
bluefoxicythere's actually a bug for this.22:03
mdzkirkland, how goes it?22:04
bluefoxicyokay what do i do about a "Fix Released" bug that's still a bug?  Remove "Fix Released" and see who gets pissed off?22:05
kirklandmdz: testing again22:05
bluefoxicy(double-bug because the "Fix" is idiotic, and the person who marked it as "Fix Released" made note of this explicitly)22:05
kirklandmdz: i got to the point where i deployed an image last time around22:06
kirklandmdz: and my 32GB disk filled up22:06
kirklandmdz: so i've done a hardware swap-a-roo22:06
* kirkland realizes he should note that in the test wiki22:06
mdzkirkland, filled 32GB, really? that's surprising22:06
* bluefoxicy unmarks #278485 and sees who bitches.22:07
kirklandmdz: image was 10GB unzipped22:07
mdzkirkland, what consensus did you and ttx come to with regard to the registration problems?  he said he could reproduce a problem, but it worked for you22:07
kirklandmdz: i'm making sure that upgrading to my ubuntu13 doesn't break things in nasty ways22:07
kirklandmdz: so far it's not; it's succeeding in auto registering the components22:07
kirklandmdz: i'm trying to get back to the point where i reproduce ttx's failure to deploy the image22:08
bluefoxicyuh  huh.22:08
bluefoxicyIt doesn't work because nm crashes.22:09
Keybukkirkland: just uploaded an upstart & dbus package to ubuntu-boot PPA ... appreciate some testing22:10
kirklandKeybuk: okay22:11
kirklandmdz: unfortunately, i'm at the part that takes a *really* long time22:11
kirklandmdz: image preparation takes 20+ minutes22:12
kirklandKeybuk: to fix the dbus-reconnect problem?22:13
Keybukyup22:13
kirklandmdz: up to step 5 on http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/ServerEConfig is working like a champ22:13
kirklandmdz: with auto registration, etc.22:14
kirklandmdz: step 6 is about a 45 minute process22:14
=== nxvl_ is now known as nxvl
=== cprov is now known as cprov-afk
bluefoxicy--- SIGSEGV (Segmentation fault) @ 0 (0) ---22:27
bluefoxicyand apport refuses to report it22:27
slangasekwhy does apport refuse?22:32
bluefoxicyit said I had outdated libraries22:33
bluefoxicyso I ran apt-get update/upgrade22:33
bluefoxicyit doesn't bother telling me stuff crashed anymore22:33
bluefoxicyi.e. "This crashed because it's out of date" and when I update it it doesn't care anymore because it's already decided it's out of date.22:33
slangasekdid it crash again while you were up-to-date?22:34
bluefoxicyyes22:34
ScottKMy favorites are the crashes during the process of updating that can't be reported because you are out of date22:34
kirklandmdz: arg22:46
kirklandmdz: i think i'm confirming ttx's "instance don't run" bug22:47
kirklandtroubleshooting now22:47
kirklandmdz: i notice that you didn't upstart the eucalyptus-nc job... any reason why?22:47
=== robbiew is now known as robbiew-afk
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
slangasekKeybuk: hrm, you stomped on my upstart changes in the bzr repo23:18
KeybukI did?23:18
Keybukbzr has totally fucked up that repo23:18
Keybukso it's entirely possible that your changes were never committed23:18
slangasekok23:18
* slangasek re-pushes23:18
=== mathiaz_ is now known as mathiaz
Keybukyou can't even branch it via the smart-server right now23:19
slangasekah, yay23:19
Keybukwhat's your local revno?23:19
Keybuk(pre-merge)23:19
slangasek122423:19
Keybukright, so your change never made it into lp23:20
slangasekit's let me push without warnings23:20
Keybukyeah it does23:20
slangasekthat's interesting, I see linear history here that shows your change on top of mine :)23:20
Keybukon top?23:20
slangasekdo you get my changes w/ bzr pull?23:20
Keybukthat's weird23:20
Keybukbzr pull from you duplicates your change twice into the log23:20
lifelessadd nosmart+23:21
slangasekyeah, the "telinit q" change shows up as a descendent of my last commit23:21
lifelessor prefix rather23:21
slangaseknosmart+bzr+ssh?23:21
Keybuklifeless: your revision control system is making me cry23:21
lifelessslangasek: yes; bug filed on it this morning23:21
lifelessKeybuk: I'm sorry!23:21
Keybuk;)23:21
Keybukit's ok23:23
KeybukI'm sure it's really an Upstart bug23:23
Keybukeverything else is ;)23:23
lifeless:)23:23
slangasekKeybuk: oh, another case broken by dh_installinit not providing /etc/init.d/ symlinks for native jobs - third-party packages that rely on restarting services for key library upgrades using invoke-rc.d...23:27
Keybukhow does that break?23:27
Keybukif they weren't there before, they won't be looking for them23:27
mdzkirkland, I couldn't test -nc at all, I left it alone23:27
slangasekKeybuk: oh right23:27
slangasekKeybuk: just breaks my brain then, nothing to see here23:27
Keybuk:D23:27
kirklandmdz: i'm still fighting it23:30
kirklandmdz: RESERVATION     r-39720716      admin   default23:30
kirklandINSTANCE        i-38A7070E      emi-D5871527    192.168.0.250   172.19.1.2      pending         mykey   0       m1.xlarge23:30
kirkland2009-09-30T22:27:50.269Z        canyonedge      eki-8F0A139D    eri-E64F14E823:30
kirklandmdz: i can make the reservation23:30
mdzkirkland, but the instance never starts up?23:30
kirklandmdz: and I can see the nc trying to spin it up23:30
kirklandmdz: i waited 30 minutes last time23:30
kirklandmdz: no good23:30
slangasekKeybuk: so wrt portmap / nfs-common... what's the correct stop policy to be setting here?23:32
slangasekis there a particular teardown upstart job for unmounting remote filesystems that we should use?23:33
slangasek(and is there not a way to express "always start this job first when I've asked to start that job", that's honored for sysadmin-started jobs?)23:34
Keybukno & no23:38
Keybukbut we can invent one ;)23:38
slangasekKeybuk: mmk :)23:38
slangasekKeybuk: yet another question... I have a task that is a dependency of other jobs, but it really should only be run *if* those other jobs are being started... :)23:38
Keybukthat's quite easy23:39
slangasekI could just run it twice in each job, I guess, but I was trying to remove that duplication23:39
Keybukstart on starting23:39
Keybukstop on stopped23:39
slangasekoh23:39
Keybuka service can insert itself as the dependency of another service that way23:39
Keybuke.g.23:39
Keybukbunny:23:39
slangasekok, cool23:39
Keybuk  start on starting pie23:40
Keybuk  stop on stopped pie23:40
Keybukthen23:40
Keybukstart pie23:40
Keybukwill first start bunny, wait for bunny to be started, and then start pie23:40
Keybuklikewise if you stop pie, once pie has stopped, bunny would be stopped23:40
cjwatsonwhich indeed is more or less how usplash does it23:42
cjwatsonexcept with that custom event23:42
Keybukright23:42
Keybukit might be nice to get those custom events hardwired into upstart in some interesting way23:42
Keybukso you don't have to jump through hoops23:42
cjwatsonmaybe. OTOH it's a good demonstration of custom events? :)23:42
cjwatsonor is that not what you meant?23:42
KeybukI mean making it easy to add custom events to jobs that effectively replace things like starting23:43
Keybukadding information23:43
Keybuk"provides" I guess is what I mean23:43
cjwatsonoh, this reminds me, in the usplash-down job I couldn't find a way to tell what runlevel it's in when it notices gdm being stopped, short of actually calling runlevel23:44
cjwatsonI wanted to distinguish "somebody ran 'stop gdm'" from "system shutdown", but there was no RUNLEVEL key in the stopped environment23:44
cjwatsonwas I missing something obvious?23:44
Keybukdo you do stop on runlevel?23:46
cjwatsonno, 'start on (stopped gdm or stopped kdm or stopped xdm)'23:46
cjwatson(dunno why I bothered to include xdm there)23:46
cjwatsonit does explicitly need to stop after X has handed the console back at the moment, I believe23:47
cjwatsonI'm pretty sure just stop on runlevel would break racily23:47
cjwatsoncertainly, pre-upstart, running usplash_down before gdm stop broke23:47
=== |Baby| is now known as Baby
slangasekKeybuk: oh argh, 'status' returns a pid when the job is stopped?  how unintuitive23:55
* slangasek thinks upstart-job is completely broken right now, then23:56
=== bjf is now known as bjf-afk
Keybukslangasek: varies23:56
Keybukcjwatson: right, so you have no $RUNLEVEL environment because none of that infers a runlevel ;)23:57
Keybukslangasek: if the job is being stopped, but isn't yet stopped, it'll still return a pid23:57
Keybukie. the pid is still in ps23:57
Keybukif the job has a post-stop script, it'll return that pid too23:57
slangasekKeybuk: oh, then I found an upstart bug ;)23:57
Keybukit does tell you in detail which pid it's returning23:57
Keybukin a machine-parseable form23:57
Keybukslangasek: oh?23:57
slangasekKeybuk: the pid it's returned isn't there23:58
slangasekgssd stop/killed, process 2058223:58
slangasek$ ps 2058223:58
slangasek  PID TTY      STAT   TIME COMMAND23:58
slangasek$23:58
Keybukand it's stuck in that state?23:58
Keybukare you using "export fork" or "export daemon" ?23:58
Keybukerr, expect23:58
slangasekexpect fork23:58
Keybukok, that's odd then23:59
Keybukusually daemon can produce that particular bug23:59
slangasek(what's the difference between the two?)23:59
Keybukexpect fork expects one fork()23:59
slangasekyeah, it's stuck in that state, can't start it with start23:59
Keybukexpect daemon expects two23:59
Keybukslangasek: weird, that implies that upstart didn't get the SIGCHLD23:59
Keybukdon't suppose you can replicate that with initctl log-priority debug set?23:59

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