/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/09/30/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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* james_w waves15:56
evandhiya15:57
* mterry waits until #startmeeting15:58
cjwatsonhi16:00
james_wwhat's the main airport for Dallas?16:01
james_wFort Worth?16:01
robbiewhello16:01
robbiewDFW16:01
robbiew#startmeeting16:01
MootBotMeeting started at 10:01. The chair is robbiew.16:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:01
* robbiew apologizes for no agenda...up past 4am working on xsplash bug :/16:02
Keybukrobbiew: congrats on the bug fix ;)16:02
mterryhello all16:02
* robbiew has to keep is "street cred" with the developers from time to time ;)16:03
cjwatsonehlo16:04
highvoltagehelo16:04
robbiewok16:04
robbiewis slangasek off today?16:05
* robbiew should probably know that :/16:05
cjwatsonhe was around earlier ...16:06
robbiewso what do we have scheduled for Beta release?16:06
robbiewanything slip out?16:06
robbiewfeature wise16:06
cjwatsonlet's see, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic16:06
doko__hi16:06
mterryI think technically my 'oem-config improvements' spec slipped, but that was expected.  remaining work should be deferred16:07
robbieweh...I don't count that ;)16:07
cjwatsonboot performance; archive reorg; deb/rsync; kerneloops; oem-config; wubi updates16:07
robbiewI think BootPerf can be considered done16:07
cjwatsondeb/rsync and wubi updates were deferred16:07
robbiewjust fixing bugs now16:07
robbiewkerneloops is done16:07
cjwatsonmajor change expected from archive reorg this cycle is done though we're still working on ongoing changes16:07
robbiewnice16:08
KeybukI'm quite pleased with the SSD boot performance16:08
cjwatsonmvo: more-robust-python-packaging, we should settle the status of that task on releasestatus/karmic one way or another16:08
cjwatsonI think everything else is as out of the way as it's supposed to be16:08
mvocjwatson: its partly done, party defered, I would lean toward defered16:09
robbiewjames_w: are you expecting anymore progress with regard to Dist Dev or Daily Builds?16:09
robbiewor are we "done" for this cycle16:09
* slangasek holds the network wires together with one hand and waves with the other16:09
james_whopefully16:09
robbiewheh16:09
james_wnothing in the archive though16:09
Keybukslangasek: I feel your pain16:09
highvoltageslangasek: isn't that what teeth are for?16:10
robbiewKeybuk: is the  Packaging and Upgrade Policy for Upstart stuff done?16:10
Keybukrobbiew: no16:10
robbiewwill it be for 9.10 :P16:10
Keybukprobably not ;)16:10
Keybukbecause it'd be changed again by 10.04 :P16:10
robbiewheh16:11
robbiewok...will defer16:11
robbiew[ACTION] robbiew to defer Packaging and Upgrade Policy for Upstart16:11
MootBotACTION received:  robbiew to defer Packaging and Upgrade Policy for Upstart16:11
robbiewand where are we at with bug 43208916:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 432089 in sreadahead "performs poorly on slow HDD" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43208916:12
robbiewKeybuk: ^16:13
Keybukdeferred16:13
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Keybukcf. my comment there16:14
cjwatsonwell, deferred though substantially improved, right ...16:14
cjwatson(door)16:14
Keybukthe deadline scheduler change does certainly improve it16:14
Keybukamongst other things16:14
Keybukthe real problem is that HDD performance optimisation is *hard*16:14
Keybuksreadahead is "at least as good" as readahead-list on HDD16:14
Keybukthough I wouldn't use the word "good" there16:14
robbiewokay16:15
robbiewmy main fear was regressing people with HDDs16:15
robbiewif we can say we haven't done that...then I'm okay16:15
KeybukI've not seen any evidence that it's worse16:15
robbiewyeah...there's the usual "stories" of people claiming slowness16:16
robbiewbut without bootcharts to back it up...nothing we can do16:16
Keybukindeed16:17
Keybukand yes, jaunty boots faster16:17
Keybukbut jaunty did not have couch potato based fat bastard db16:17
robbiewlol16:17
robbiewI thought they were fixing that16:17
robbiewslangasek: did you get any late fixes around couch?16:17
robbiewfor beta?16:17
james_wsystem daemon, or per-user?16:17
james_wI believe the default install no longer starts the former16:19
slangasekrobbiew: there were some uploads, but they arrived late in the beta freeze with nothing I could see that was beta-critical16:19
slangasek(in fact, the one bug report that was being tracked was a non-bug)16:20
robbiewnice16:20
robbiewok16:20
james_wthe previous upload was the one that was supposed to fix that16:20
slangasekso those are in the queue and will be released post-beta16:20
robbiewjames_w: so I shouldn't see couchdb start at all? or does it start after user-login?16:20
james_wrobbiew: it will start in your session if something uses it16:21
* slangasek nods16:21
james_wbut perhaps the fix for the system daemon was incomplete16:21
robbiewhmmm16:22
slangasek"perhaps"?16:23
* Keybuk hasn't looked in the last week16:23
james_wjust hypothesising, I believe the system daemon shouldn't start on the beta images16:24
Keybukit doesn16:24
Keybukargh US keyboard16:24
Keybukit doesn't look like it started on this16:24
robbiewok16:25
robbiewcjwatson: so are we looking better for the cloud installer stuff16:26
* robbiew backs away to avoid a swing by cjwatson :P16:26
cjwatsonthere are some startup race difficulties at the moment, which ttx and kirkland are working16:27
cjwatsonand Keybuk commented on a short while ago in #ubuntu-devel16:27
cjwatsonthe installer as such seems to be largely OK no16:27
cjwatsonw16:27
cjwatsonit's eucalyptus itself and its startup that are busted16:28
robbiewright...I saw that, thanks16:28
Keybukyeah, and the eucalyptus scripts are doing strange things that I don't even know the behaviour of ;)16:28
cjwatsonwhat was strange about eucalyptus-cloud BTW?16:29
cjwatsonjust the timeout?16:29
Keybukit uses a post-start script16:29
cjwatsonI already suggested to mdz that that should use respawn limit16:29
Keybukwithout any main process, etc.16:29
KeybukI'm not even sure that works16:29
cjwatsonKeybuk: I commented on that yesterday, and ion immediately said it worked16:29
cjwatsonor was supposed to16:29
Keybukand I'm certainly not sure of upstart's behaviour when it exits ;)16:29
cjwatsonnow, he might have been wrong, I didn't check further after that16:29
Keybuksince there are bugs in RECENT upstart history which resulted in a kernel panic when using post-start, it's not very well tested code <g>16:30
cjwatsonhah16:30
Keybukwhy is it post-start anyway?16:30
cjwatsonpoke ion for me, then ;)16:30
KeybukI couldn't find any reason why it shouldn't be pre-start16:30
Keybukin fact, if you don't have a main process, there really isn't much difference between pre-start and post-start16:31
cjwatsonI don't know of a good reason for that, no16:31
cjwatsonmdz just said "it worked for me" when I asked about it16:31
Keybuk:D16:31
KeybukI guess I need someone to explain to me what they're trying to do16:32
kirklandKeybuk: cjwatson: if it helps, i have the precise order that the scripts should run, according to nurmi16:32
Keybukkirkland: that would help16:33
robbiewok...I don't have anything else16:33
robbiew[TOPIC] Good News?16:33
MootBotNew Topic:  Good News?16:33
* robbiew can still use gdb :P16:34
KeybukI inadvertently tested the GRUB2 menu on recovery feature16:34
Keybukand it worked16:34
liwmy home file server's 8 hard disks and SATA controller haven't totally failed yet!16:34
Keybuk"oh, that's odd, I got the GRUB menu ... ah, it failed to boot"16:34
robbiewheh16:34
cjwatsonKeybuk: (might be nice if it told you why it was showing the grub menu, but I haven't figured out how yet ...)16:34
mterryAh, is that why I've been given the grub menu?  :)16:34
mterryI thought the timeout got removed somehow16:34
cjwatsonI think I nailed about 75% of the remaining clock handling bugs in the installer16:35
Keybukyeah16:35
cjwatsonthis is your weekly dose of extremely qualified good news16:35
Keybuksadly the reason I failed to boot was one of the other 25% :)16:35
cjwatsonKeybuk: hmm?16:35
KeybukI actually, genuinely, think there might be another ext4 bug here16:35
Keybukit doesn't look like it updates the last mount time timestamp when you *unmount*16:35
Keybukso if you boot with a fast clock16:36
mvoI managed to spend time on something other than softtware-center last week16:36
Keybukand ntpdate fixes it16:36
cjwatsonI also have plans to actively compare NTP with the hardware clock + timezone, and try to guess better16:36
Keybukthen on shutdown we fix the hardware clock to be right16:36
robbiewmvo: \o/16:36
Keybukbut unmounting the ext4 filesystem doesn't fix that16:36
Keybukso you reboot with a mount time in the future16:36
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cjwatsonbut ext4 is bug-free!16:36
cjwatsonahem16:36
kirklandKeybuk: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/282246/16:36
Amaranthmvo: now you can help with compiz stuff instead ;)16:37
slangasekgood news: I can almost make nfs-common start via upstart16:37
slangasekstopping is another matter16:37
mterryheh16:37
mvoAmaranth: heh :)16:37
robbiewAmaranth: uh...no16:37
Keybukkirkland: right16:38
Keybukif they're supposed to run in series, these conf files won't do that :p16:38
Keybukslangasek: hmm?16:38
slangasekKeybuk: I was prodding at bug #431248... did you not get my voicemail? :)16:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 431248 in portmap "NFS not mounted" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43124816:38
KeybukI don't have voicemail?16:39
* Keybuk turned it off16:39
slangasekoh cool16:39
james_wkayak.co.uk makes looking for flights significantly less painful16:39
Keybukthe trick to those is to break nfs-common into lots of different conf files16:39
Keybukthus /etc/init/rpc.statd.conf16:39
slangasektoo bad the message isn't turned off, inviting me to leave one :P16:39
Keybuketc.16:39
slangasekKeybuk: yes, I'm aware16:39
slangasek:)16:39
slangasekit's slow going though, to keep my eyes from bleeding too much16:39
slangasek(from the existing nfs-common code)16:40
kirklandKeybuk: well, theoretically some of these can run in parallel, but the euca guys aren't comfortable with that; they've long trusted their series of init scripts16:40
robbiewokay...I think we're done.  Don't forget to setup your travel for the release sprint (if you are attending) and UDS16:40
robbiew#endmeeting16:40
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:40.16:40
liwslangasek, ifyou turn off your monitor, your eyes will bleed less16:40
slangasekthanks16:40
Keybukkirkland: OOI, why was this converted to Upstart?16:40
james_wthanks all16:41
liwmuchas gracias16:41
mvothanks16:41
kirklandKeybuk: i expected to convert to upstart for Lucid, mdz decided to do it immediately16:41
mterryta16:41
kirklandKeybuk: i'm not positive of his rationale, but i suspect it's something along the lines of "those init scripts were an absolute mess"16:42
kirklandKeybuk: and that we thought we could enforce the dependencies better using upstart16:42
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* fader_ waves.17:59
marjo#startmeeting18:00
MootBotMeeting started at 12:00. The chair is marjo.18:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:00
marjoHi folks!18:00
marjoQA Team Meeting Agenda18:00
davmor2hello18:00
marjoAgenda:18:00
marjo    * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)18:00
marjo    * Bugday highlights -- bdmurray (Brian Murray)18:00
pedro_hola!18:00
marjoAre there any new topics you want to add to the agenda?18:00
sbeattie*cough* beta testing *cough*18:01
marjoah, but of course!18:01
davmor2just don't mention wubi18:01
marjoouch18:01
fader_Wubi?  Never heard of it O:-)18:02
pedro_heh18:02
marjo#topic SRU Testing - sbeattie18:02
marjo[TOPIC] SRU Testing18:02
MootBotNew Topic:  SRU Testing18:02
sbeattieSRU Activity for the past week (since 2009-09-16):18:02
sbeattie* Jaunty: 5 new packages in -proposed (apport, dbconfig-common, language-packs, net-snmp, pythonmagick) and 8 packages pushed to -updates (apport, dbconfig-common, firefox-3.5, gitosis, kdenetwork, linux, opencity, xulrunner-1.9.1)18:02
sbeattie* Intrepid: 1 new package in -proposed (net-snmp) and no packages pushed to -updates18:02
sbeattie* Hardy: 1 new package in -proposed (net-snmp) and 1 package pushed to -updates (linux-ubuntu-modules)18:02
sbeattie* Dapper: no changes this week18:02
sbeattiesorry, since 2009-09-2318:03
sbeattieThanks to Alok Kataria, A. Karl Kornel, Pascal DANEK, stgraber, and Jeremy Wilkins for testing SRU packages this week.18:03
marjosbeattie: anything else?18:04
sbeattieThat's it for SRUs this week.18:04
marjothx18:04
marjo[TOPIC] Bugday highlights -- bdmurray18:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Bugday highlights -- bdmurray18:05
bdmurrayI think that agenda item is stale / left-over from last week's meeting.18:05
marjooops, sorry18:05
bdmurrayNo problem, I should have looked at it in advance too.18:05
marjoara: are you able to give Beta status?18:05
marjo[TOPIC] Karmic Beta Testing Status18:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Karmic Beta Testing Status18:06
arayes, the server is a bit slow now, as it has been respun a couple of times due to a UEC bug18:06
arabut the rest is looking good18:06
marjoYeah!18:06
arawe shouldn't expect (finger x'ed) another respin18:07
arabut we do need help in testing the untested test cases18:07
arahttp://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build//inprogress18:07
MootBotLINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build//inprogress18:07
marjoara: is it true only moblin remix is untested!?18:07
arahttp://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/untested18:07
MootBotLINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/untested18:07
aramarjo, no, wrong link18:07
arahttp://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/inprogress18:08
MootBotLINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/inprogress18:08
arathose two18:08
marjoah, got it!18:08
fader_FYI I'm pulling down the kubuntu DVD now and will start on some of those tests shortly18:08
fader_*amd6418:08
marjoFolks: Can anyone on the meeting help out?18:08
* pedro_ starts to sync ubuntu studio i38618:08
cr3marjo: I'll make sure automated testing is poised for tomorrow18:09
marjofader, pedro, cr3: thx!18:09
fader_^^ And I plan to head into Lexington tomorrow to hit the netbooks there :)18:09
* sbeattie is working on xubuntu and ubuntu-server upgrade tests18:09
davmor2I'm about to have tea then kill the last of the ubuntu alternate tests.  Then kill edubuntu then whatever is left18:09
marjolooking forward to good beta test coverage18:09
marjosbeattie, fader: thx18:10
marjodavmor2: great!18:10
marjoany ideas on how to get upgrade coverage?18:10
sbeattiethat's what I'm working on18:11
marjothx!18:11
davmor2marjo: edubuntu is being respun to kill sbeatties bug18:11
davmor2looks like it was just a seed issue18:11
marjodavmor2: yes, as you suspected18:12
marjoor hoped for18:12
* Riddell hugs fader_ 18:12
marjoara: if everyone does what they just said, what would be left uncovered?18:12
fader_:D18:12
arawell, upgrades needs more people, I guess18:13
marjosbeattie: how much of the upgades list can you cover?18:13
marjodownload info Upgrade Edubuntu amd64 (20090929)  0/1  18:14
marjodownload info Upgrade Edubuntu i386 (20090929) 0/1 18:14
marjodownload info Upgrade Kubuntu amd64 (20090929) 0/1 18:14
marjodownload info Upgrade Ubuntu Server amd64 (20090930) 0/1 18:14
marjodownload info Upgrade Xubuntu amd64 (20090929) 0/1 18:14
marjodownload info Upgrade Xubuntu i386 (20090929) 0/118:14
aramarjo, and also, when edubuntu is done, we need to retest18:14
sbeattiemarjo: I'm working on 3 of those 6 right now, will move to other 3 when I'm finished with these.18:14
marjosbeattie: nice!18:15
fader_sbeattie: Out of curiosity, do you have images of previous installs handy that you might be able to share?18:15
fader_E.g. put on a server somewhere?18:15
fader_(I'm assuming you're using virtualization for the upgrade testing)18:15
sbeattiefader_: not... easily. my outbound bandwidth is pretty slow.18:15
fader_sbeattie: Okay, I thought that might be the case but it didn't hurt to ask :)18:16
marjoara: any ideas for edubuntu DVD amd64? i don't see a subscriber to it18:16
fader_marjo: I will grab that one if nobody else does by the time I finish the kubuntu DVD18:17
marjofader_: thx!18:17
arafader_, nice18:17
marjoso, does that mean all is covered?!18:18
marjothat would be great, after edubuntu is respun18:18
marjoall: can you please go ahead and subscribe so that the subscription summary is updated?18:19
marjothx18:19
arafor RC it will be nice to have more people on the platform team testing18:20
fader_marjo: FYI, the subscriptions go past the immediate testing run and indicate that you're interested in testing every new spin of an image.  I don't mind testing any of them but it might be a good idea to try to find people who use Edubuntu regularly to help test it, for example18:20
marjoara: i agree; let's work on that18:20
fader_I do try to grab images that haven't been tested even if I'm not subscribed18:20
marjofader_ : oic18:20
arafader_, yes, I think that's what most of us do18:21
fader_ara: Indeed, I didn't mean to imply that it was just me ;)18:21
arafader_, I know :D18:21
cr3aren't people on the platform team busy frantically fixing bugs, or are there so few bugs that they really have spare cycles for testing?18:21
marjofader_ : yes, that's one of the things ara is working on - recruiting regular testers18:21
marjocr3: the idea is to get more coverage by folks who know and use the product well18:22
aracr3, one test case per person per milestone is achievable, I think18:22
marjobut in general, the more the better and merrier18:22
aracr3, we are about 80 people in the platform team18:23
cr3marjo: I would suspect that the coverage you speak of is already done before pushing a new package to the repository18:24
marjocr3: you're right, but I'm thinking more of "test coverage" as in hitting all the cases called out in the iso tracker18:25
cr3ara: will we be assigning specific cases to members of the platform team or will they pick cases according to their expertise?18:25
cr3ara: nevermind, "iso tracker" comment by marjo answers my question :)18:25
aracr3, I think that the pick what's untested in the iso tracker is a good strategy18:26
marjocurrently there are 7 red bugs showing18:26
marjoaccording to davmor2, https://bugs.launchpad.net/wubi/+bug/439279 is being worked18:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 439279 in wubi "There seems to be some instability with the installer" [Undecided,New]18:27
marjodavmor2: sorry, i had to mention wubi18:28
marjoany new status on the other 6?18:28
arahttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/431206 is already milestoned by the mobile team18:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 431206 in Ubuntu Karmic "partman-uboot needs to exist for check script for supporting manual partitioning" [Undecided,New]18:29
marjook, folks, anything else on Beta?18:30
marjoimho, it's looking pretty good, no?18:31
marjoany other topics for today?18:31
marjook, if nothing else, i propose we adjourn18:32
marjothx to all and good luck for Beta release!18:32
marjo#endmeeting18:32
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:32.18:32
fader_Thanks everyone18:32
pedro_thanks18:33
katuHi, I have a question about the upcoming jams. I'm a programmer and ubuntu user, but haven't done any particularly ubuntu-specific work - is there anything it would be useful to do to prepare for the jam and increase the odds I can do something useful there?18:49
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