[15:56]  * james_w waves
[15:57] <evand> hiya
[15:58]  * mterry waits until #startmeeting
[16:00] <cjwatson> hi
[16:01] <james_w> what's the main airport for Dallas?
[16:01] <james_w> Fort Worth?
[16:01] <robbiew> hello
[16:01] <robbiew> DFW
[16:01] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is robbiew.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02]  * robbiew apologizes for no agenda...up past 4am working on xsplash bug :/
[16:02] <Keybuk> robbiew: congrats on the bug fix ;)
[16:02] <mterry> hello all
[16:03]  * robbiew has to keep is "street cred" with the developers from time to time ;)
[16:04] <cjwatson> ehlo
[16:04] <highvoltage> helo
[16:04] <robbiew> ok
[16:05] <robbiew> is slangasek off today?
[16:05]  * robbiew should probably know that :/
[16:06] <cjwatson> he was around earlier ...
[16:06] <robbiew> so what do we have scheduled for Beta release?
[16:06] <robbiew> anything slip out?
[16:06] <robbiew> feature wise
[16:06] <cjwatson> let's see, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:06] <doko__> hi
[16:07] <mterry> I think technically my 'oem-config improvements' spec slipped, but that was expected.  remaining work should be deferred
[16:07] <robbiew> eh...I don't count that ;)
[16:07] <cjwatson> boot performance; archive reorg; deb/rsync; kerneloops; oem-config; wubi updates
[16:07] <robbiew> I think BootPerf can be considered done
[16:07] <cjwatson> deb/rsync and wubi updates were deferred
[16:07] <robbiew> just fixing bugs now
[16:07] <robbiew> kerneloops is done
[16:07] <cjwatson> major change expected from archive reorg this cycle is done though we're still working on ongoing changes
[16:08] <robbiew> nice
[16:08] <Keybuk> I'm quite pleased with the SSD boot performance
[16:08] <cjwatson> mvo: more-robust-python-packaging, we should settle the status of that task on releasestatus/karmic one way or another
[16:08] <cjwatson> I think everything else is as out of the way as it's supposed to be
[16:09] <mvo> cjwatson: its partly done, party defered, I would lean toward defered
[16:09] <robbiew> james_w: are you expecting anymore progress with regard to Dist Dev or Daily Builds?
[16:09] <robbiew> or are we "done" for this cycle
[16:09]  * slangasek holds the network wires together with one hand and waves with the other
[16:09] <james_w> hopefully
[16:09] <robbiew> heh
[16:09] <james_w> nothing in the archive though
[16:09] <Keybuk> slangasek: I feel your pain
[16:10] <highvoltage> slangasek: isn't that what teeth are for?
[16:10] <robbiew> Keybuk: is the  Packaging and Upgrade Policy for Upstart stuff done?
[16:10] <Keybuk> robbiew: no
[16:10] <robbiew> will it be for 9.10 :P
[16:10] <Keybuk> probably not ;)
[16:10] <Keybuk> because it'd be changed again by 10.04 :P
[16:11] <robbiew> heh
[16:11] <robbiew> ok...will defer
[16:11] <robbiew> [ACTION] robbiew to defer Packaging and Upgrade Policy for Upstart
[16:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to defer Packaging and Upgrade Policy for Upstart
[16:12] <robbiew> and where are we at with bug 432089
[16:13] <robbiew> Keybuk: ^
[16:13] <Keybuk> deferred
[16:14] <Keybuk> cf. my comment there
[16:14] <cjwatson> well, deferred though substantially improved, right ...
[16:14] <cjwatson> (door)
[16:14] <Keybuk> the deadline scheduler change does certainly improve it
[16:14] <Keybuk> amongst other things
[16:14] <Keybuk> the real problem is that HDD performance optimisation is *hard*
[16:14] <Keybuk> sreadahead is "at least as good" as readahead-list on HDD
[16:14] <Keybuk> though I wouldn't use the word "good" there
[16:15] <robbiew> okay
[16:15] <robbiew> my main fear was regressing people with HDDs
[16:15] <robbiew> if we can say we haven't done that...then I'm okay
[16:15] <Keybuk> I've not seen any evidence that it's worse
[16:16] <robbiew> yeah...there's the usual "stories" of people claiming slowness
[16:16] <robbiew> but without bootcharts to back it up...nothing we can do
[16:17] <Keybuk> indeed
[16:17] <Keybuk> and yes, jaunty boots faster
[16:17] <Keybuk> but jaunty did not have couch potato based fat bastard db
[16:17] <robbiew> lol
[16:17] <robbiew> I thought they were fixing that
[16:17] <robbiew> slangasek: did you get any late fixes around couch?
[16:17] <robbiew> for beta?
[16:17] <james_w> system daemon, or per-user?
[16:19] <james_w> I believe the default install no longer starts the former
[16:19] <slangasek> robbiew: there were some uploads, but they arrived late in the beta freeze with nothing I could see that was beta-critical
[16:20] <slangasek> (in fact, the one bug report that was being tracked was a non-bug)
[16:20] <robbiew> nice
[16:20] <robbiew> ok
[16:20] <james_w> the previous upload was the one that was supposed to fix that
[16:20] <slangasek> so those are in the queue and will be released post-beta
[16:20] <robbiew> james_w: so I shouldn't see couchdb start at all? or does it start after user-login?
[16:21] <james_w> robbiew: it will start in your session if something uses it
[16:21]  * slangasek nods
[16:21] <james_w> but perhaps the fix for the system daemon was incomplete
[16:22] <robbiew> hmmm
[16:23] <slangasek> "perhaps"?
[16:23]  * Keybuk hasn't looked in the last week
[16:24] <james_w> just hypothesising, I believe the system daemon shouldn't start on the beta images
[16:24] <Keybuk> it doesn
[16:24] <Keybuk> argh US keyboard
[16:24] <Keybuk> it doesn't look like it started on this
[16:25] <robbiew> ok
[16:26] <robbiew> cjwatson: so are we looking better for the cloud installer stuff
[16:26]  * robbiew backs away to avoid a swing by cjwatson :P
[16:27] <cjwatson> there are some startup race difficulties at the moment, which ttx and kirkland are working
[16:27] <cjwatson> and Keybuk commented on a short while ago in #ubuntu-devel
[16:27] <cjwatson> the installer as such seems to be largely OK no
[16:27] <cjwatson> w
[16:28] <cjwatson> it's eucalyptus itself and its startup that are busted
[16:28] <robbiew> right...I saw that, thanks
[16:28] <Keybuk> yeah, and the eucalyptus scripts are doing strange things that I don't even know the behaviour of ;)
[16:29] <cjwatson> what was strange about eucalyptus-cloud BTW?
[16:29] <cjwatson> just the timeout?
[16:29] <Keybuk> it uses a post-start script
[16:29] <cjwatson> I already suggested to mdz that that should use respawn limit
[16:29] <Keybuk> without any main process, etc.
[16:29] <Keybuk> I'm not even sure that works
[16:29] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I commented on that yesterday, and ion immediately said it worked
[16:29] <cjwatson> or was supposed to
[16:29] <Keybuk> and I'm certainly not sure of upstart's behaviour when it exits ;)
[16:29] <cjwatson> now, he might have been wrong, I didn't check further after that
[16:30] <Keybuk> since there are bugs in RECENT upstart history which resulted in a kernel panic when using post-start, it's not very well tested code <g>
[16:30] <cjwatson> hah
[16:30] <Keybuk> why is it post-start anyway?
[16:30] <cjwatson> poke ion for me, then ;)
[16:30] <Keybuk> I couldn't find any reason why it shouldn't be pre-start
[16:31] <Keybuk> in fact, if you don't have a main process, there really isn't much difference between pre-start and post-start
[16:31] <cjwatson> I don't know of a good reason for that, no
[16:31] <cjwatson> mdz just said "it worked for me" when I asked about it
[16:31] <Keybuk> :D
[16:32] <Keybuk> I guess I need someone to explain to me what they're trying to do
[16:32] <kirkland> Keybuk: cjwatson: if it helps, i have the precise order that the scripts should run, according to nurmi
[16:33] <Keybuk> kirkland: that would help
[16:33] <robbiew> ok...I don't have anything else
[16:33] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News?
[16:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  Good News?
[16:34]  * robbiew can still use gdb :P
[16:34] <Keybuk> I inadvertently tested the GRUB2 menu on recovery feature
[16:34] <Keybuk> and it worked
[16:34] <liw> my home file server's 8 hard disks and SATA controller haven't totally failed yet!
[16:34] <Keybuk> "oh, that's odd, I got the GRUB menu ... ah, it failed to boot"
[16:34] <robbiew> heh
[16:34] <cjwatson> Keybuk: (might be nice if it told you why it was showing the grub menu, but I haven't figured out how yet ...)
[16:34] <mterry> Ah, is that why I've been given the grub menu?  :)
[16:34] <mterry> I thought the timeout got removed somehow
[16:35] <cjwatson> I think I nailed about 75% of the remaining clock handling bugs in the installer
[16:35] <Keybuk> yeah
[16:35] <cjwatson> this is your weekly dose of extremely qualified good news
[16:35] <Keybuk> sadly the reason I failed to boot was one of the other 25% :)
[16:35] <cjwatson> Keybuk: hmm?
[16:35] <Keybuk> I actually, genuinely, think there might be another ext4 bug here
[16:35] <Keybuk> it doesn't look like it updates the last mount time timestamp when you *unmount*
[16:36] <Keybuk> so if you boot with a fast clock
[16:36] <mvo> I managed to spend time on something other than softtware-center last week
[16:36] <Keybuk> and ntpdate fixes it
[16:36] <cjwatson> I also have plans to actively compare NTP with the hardware clock + timezone, and try to guess better
[16:36] <Keybuk> then on shutdown we fix the hardware clock to be right
[16:36] <robbiew> mvo: \o/
[16:36] <Keybuk> but unmounting the ext4 filesystem doesn't fix that
[16:36] <Keybuk> so you reboot with a mount time in the future
[16:36] <cjwatson> but ext4 is bug-free!
[16:36] <cjwatson> ahem
[16:36] <kirkland> Keybuk: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/282246/
[16:37] <Amaranth> mvo: now you can help with compiz stuff instead ;)
[16:37] <slangasek> good news: I can almost make nfs-common start via upstart
[16:37] <slangasek> stopping is another matter
[16:37] <mterry> heh
[16:37] <mvo> Amaranth: heh :)
[16:37] <robbiew> Amaranth: uh...no
[16:38] <Keybuk> kirkland: right
[16:38] <Keybuk> if they're supposed to run in series, these conf files won't do that :p
[16:38] <Keybuk> slangasek: hmm?
[16:38] <slangasek> Keybuk: I was prodding at bug #431248... did you not get my voicemail? :)
[16:39] <Keybuk> I don't have voicemail?
[16:39]  * Keybuk turned it off
[16:39] <slangasek> oh cool
[16:39] <james_w> kayak.co.uk makes looking for flights significantly less painful
[16:39] <Keybuk> the trick to those is to break nfs-common into lots of different conf files
[16:39] <Keybuk> thus /etc/init/rpc.statd.conf
[16:39] <slangasek> too bad the message isn't turned off, inviting me to leave one :P
[16:39] <Keybuk> etc.
[16:39] <slangasek> Keybuk: yes, I'm aware
[16:39] <slangasek> :)
[16:39] <slangasek> it's slow going though, to keep my eyes from bleeding too much
[16:40] <slangasek> (from the existing nfs-common code)
[16:40] <kirkland> Keybuk: well, theoretically some of these can run in parallel, but the euca guys aren't comfortable with that; they've long trusted their series of init scripts
[16:40] <robbiew> okay...I think we're done.  Don't forget to setup your travel for the release sprint (if you are attending) and UDS
[16:40] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[16:40] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:40.
[16:40] <liw> slangasek, ifyou turn off your monitor, your eyes will bleed less
[16:40] <slangasek> thanks
[16:40] <Keybuk> kirkland: OOI, why was this converted to Upstart?
[16:41] <james_w> thanks all
[16:41] <liw> muchas gracias
[16:41] <mvo> thanks
[16:41] <kirkland> Keybuk: i expected to convert to upstart for Lucid, mdz decided to do it immediately
[16:41] <mterry> ta
[16:42] <kirkland> Keybuk: i'm not positive of his rationale, but i suspect it's something along the lines of "those init scripts were an absolute mess"
[16:42] <kirkland> Keybuk: and that we thought we could enforce the dependencies better using upstart
[17:59]  * fader_ waves.
[18:00] <marjo> #startmeeting
[18:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is marjo.
[18:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:00] <marjo> Hi folks!
[18:00] <marjo> QA Team Meeting Agenda
[18:00] <davmor2> hello
[18:00] <marjo> Agenda:
[18:00] <marjo>     * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[18:00] <marjo>     * Bugday highlights -- bdmurray (Brian Murray)
[18:00] <pedro_> hola!
[18:00] <marjo> Are there any new topics you want to add to the agenda?
[18:01] <sbeattie> *cough* beta testing *cough*
[18:01] <marjo> ah, but of course!
[18:01] <davmor2> just don't mention wubi
[18:01] <marjo> ouch
[18:02] <fader_> Wubi?  Never heard of it O:-)
[18:02] <pedro_> heh
[18:02] <marjo> #topic SRU Testing - sbeattie
[18:02] <marjo> [TOPIC] SRU Testing
[18:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU Testing
[18:02] <sbeattie> SRU Activity for the past week (since 2009-09-16):
[18:02] <sbeattie> * Jaunty: 5 new packages in -proposed (apport, dbconfig-common, language-packs, net-snmp, pythonmagick) and 8 packages pushed to -updates (apport, dbconfig-common, firefox-3.5, gitosis, kdenetwork, linux, opencity, xulrunner-1.9.1)
[18:02] <sbeattie> * Intrepid: 1 new package in -proposed (net-snmp) and no packages pushed to -updates
[18:02] <sbeattie> * Hardy: 1 new package in -proposed (net-snmp) and 1 package pushed to -updates (linux-ubuntu-modules)
[18:02] <sbeattie> * Dapper: no changes this week
[18:03] <sbeattie> sorry, since 2009-09-23
[18:03] <sbeattie> Thanks to Alok Kataria, A. Karl Kornel, Pascal DANEK, stgraber, and Jeremy Wilkins for testing SRU packages this week.
[18:04] <marjo> sbeattie: anything else?
[18:04] <sbeattie> That's it for SRUs this week.
[18:04] <marjo> thx
[18:05] <marjo> [TOPIC] Bugday highlights -- bdmurray
[18:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bugday highlights -- bdmurray
[18:05] <bdmurray> I think that agenda item is stale / left-over from last week's meeting.
[18:05] <marjo> oops, sorry
[18:05] <bdmurray> No problem, I should have looked at it in advance too.
[18:05] <marjo> ara: are you able to give Beta status?
[18:06] <marjo> [TOPIC] Karmic Beta Testing Status
[18:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Beta Testing Status
[18:06] <ara> yes, the server is a bit slow now, as it has been respun a couple of times due to a UEC bug
[18:06] <ara> but the rest is looking good
[18:06] <marjo> Yeah!
[18:07] <ara> we shouldn't expect (finger x'ed) another respin
[18:07] <ara> but we do need help in testing the untested test cases
[18:07] <ara> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build//inprogress
[18:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build//inprogress
[18:07] <marjo> ara: is it true only moblin remix is untested!?
[18:07] <ara> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/untested
[18:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/untested
[18:07] <ara> marjo, no, wrong link
[18:08] <ara> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/inprogress
[18:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/inprogress
[18:08] <ara> those two
[18:08] <marjo> ah, got it!
[18:08] <fader_> FYI I'm pulling down the kubuntu DVD now and will start on some of those tests shortly
[18:08] <fader_> *amd64
[18:08] <marjo> Folks: Can anyone on the meeting help out?
[18:08]  * pedro_ starts to sync ubuntu studio i386
[18:09] <cr3> marjo: I'll make sure automated testing is poised for tomorrow
[18:09] <marjo> fader, pedro, cr3: thx!
[18:09] <fader_> ^^ And I plan to head into Lexington tomorrow to hit the netbooks there :)
[18:09]  * sbeattie is working on xubuntu and ubuntu-server upgrade tests
[18:09] <davmor2> I'm about to have tea then kill the last of the ubuntu alternate tests.  Then kill edubuntu then whatever is left
[18:09] <marjo> looking forward to good beta test coverage
[18:10] <marjo> sbeattie, fader: thx
[18:10] <marjo> davmor2: great!
[18:10] <marjo> any ideas on how to get upgrade coverage?
[18:11] <sbeattie> that's what I'm working on
[18:11] <marjo> thx!
[18:11] <davmor2> marjo: edubuntu is being respun to kill sbeatties bug
[18:11] <davmor2> looks like it was just a seed issue
[18:12] <marjo> davmor2: yes, as you suspected
[18:12] <marjo> or hoped for
[18:12]  * Riddell hugs fader_ 
[18:12] <marjo> ara: if everyone does what they just said, what would be left uncovered?
[18:12] <fader_> :D
[18:13] <ara> well, upgrades needs more people, I guess
[18:13] <marjo> sbeattie: how much of the upgades list can you cover?
[18:14] <marjo> download info Upgrade Edubuntu amd64 (20090929)  	0/1  	
[18:14] <marjo> download info Upgrade Edubuntu i386 (20090929) 	0/1 	
[18:14] <marjo> download info Upgrade Kubuntu amd64 (20090929) 	0/1 	
[18:14] <marjo> download info Upgrade Ubuntu Server amd64 (20090930) 	0/1 	
[18:14] <marjo> download info Upgrade Xubuntu amd64 (20090929) 	0/1 	
[18:14] <marjo> download info Upgrade Xubuntu i386 (20090929) 	0/1
[18:14] <ara> marjo, and also, when edubuntu is done, we need to retest
[18:14] <sbeattie> marjo: I'm working on 3 of those 6 right now, will move to other 3 when I'm finished with these.
[18:15] <marjo> sbeattie: nice!
[18:15] <fader_> sbeattie: Out of curiosity, do you have images of previous installs handy that you might be able to share?
[18:15] <fader_> E.g. put on a server somewhere?
[18:15] <fader_> (I'm assuming you're using virtualization for the upgrade testing)
[18:15] <sbeattie> fader_: not... easily. my outbound bandwidth is pretty slow.
[18:16] <fader_> sbeattie: Okay, I thought that might be the case but it didn't hurt to ask :)
[18:16] <marjo> ara: any ideas for edubuntu DVD amd64? i don't see a subscriber to it
[18:17] <fader_> marjo: I will grab that one if nobody else does by the time I finish the kubuntu DVD
[18:17] <marjo> fader_: thx!
[18:17] <ara> fader_, nice
[18:18] <marjo> so, does that mean all is covered?!
[18:18] <marjo> that would be great, after edubuntu is respun
[18:19] <marjo> all: can you please go ahead and subscribe so that the subscription summary is updated?
[18:19] <marjo> thx
[18:20] <ara> for RC it will be nice to have more people on the platform team testing
[18:20] <fader_> marjo: FYI, the subscriptions go past the immediate testing run and indicate that you're interested in testing every new spin of an image.  I don't mind testing any of them but it might be a good idea to try to find people who use Edubuntu regularly to help test it, for example
[18:20] <marjo> ara: i agree; let's work on that
[18:20] <fader_> I do try to grab images that haven't been tested even if I'm not subscribed
[18:20] <marjo> fader_ : oic
[18:21] <ara> fader_, yes, I think that's what most of us do
[18:21] <fader_> ara: Indeed, I didn't mean to imply that it was just me ;)
[18:21] <ara> fader_, I know :D
[18:21] <cr3> aren't people on the platform team busy frantically fixing bugs, or are there so few bugs that they really have spare cycles for testing?
[18:21] <marjo> fader_ : yes, that's one of the things ara is working on - recruiting regular testers
[18:22] <marjo> cr3: the idea is to get more coverage by folks who know and use the product well
[18:22] <ara> cr3, one test case per person per milestone is achievable, I think
[18:22] <marjo> but in general, the more the better and merrier
[18:23] <ara> cr3, we are about 80 people in the platform team
[18:24] <cr3> marjo: I would suspect that the coverage you speak of is already done before pushing a new package to the repository
[18:25] <marjo> cr3: you're right, but I'm thinking more of "test coverage" as in hitting all the cases called out in the iso tracker
[18:25] <cr3> ara: will we be assigning specific cases to members of the platform team or will they pick cases according to their expertise?
[18:25] <cr3> ara: nevermind, "iso tracker" comment by marjo answers my question :)
[18:26] <ara> cr3, I think that the pick what's untested in the iso tracker is a good strategy
[18:26] <marjo> currently there are 7 red bugs showing
[18:27] <marjo> according to davmor2, https://bugs.launchpad.net/wubi/+bug/439279 is being worked
[18:28] <marjo> davmor2: sorry, i had to mention wubi
[18:28] <marjo> any new status on the other 6?
[18:29] <ara> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/431206 is already milestoned by the mobile team
[18:30] <marjo> ok, folks, anything else on Beta?
[18:31] <marjo> imho, it's looking pretty good, no?
[18:31] <marjo> any other topics for today?
[18:32] <marjo> ok, if nothing else, i propose we adjourn
[18:32] <marjo> thx to all and good luck for Beta release!
[18:32] <marjo> #endmeeting
[18:32] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:32.
[18:32] <fader_> Thanks everyone
[18:33] <pedro_> thanks
[18:49] <katu> Hi, I have a question about the upcoming jams. I'm a programmer and ubuntu user, but haven't done any particularly ubuntu-specific work - is there anything it would be useful to do to prepare for the jam and increase the odds I can do something useful there?