[12:43] <WilliamHerry> 1
[16:00] <dpm> so, welcome all to this translations meeting!
[16:00] <dpm> #startmeeting
[16:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is dpm.
[16:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:00] <adiroiban> hi
[16:00] <dpm> who's there? o/
[16:00] <kelemengabor> hi all
[16:00] <czajkowski> aloha
[16:00] <happyaron> hi
[16:01] <dpm> hiya adiroiban, kelemengabor, cjwatson, happyaron!
[16:01] <dpm> czajkowski, I meant, not Colin :)
[16:01] <dpm> so, shall we get started with the first topic?
[16:02] <adiroiban> sure
[16:02] <dpm> Adi, it is yours
[16:02] <dpm> [TOPIC] Decide templates prioirty and order in the Ubuntu Templates list
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Decide templates prioirty and order in the Ubuntu Templates list
[16:04] <adiroiban> well.
[16:04] <adiroiban> I think you all know the wikipage
[16:04] <adiroiban> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/TemplatesPriority
[16:04] <adiroiban> any comments regarding the categories ?
[16:04] <adiroiban> shall we have new ones, or remove some of them
[16:04] <adiroiban> ?
[16:05] <dpm> adiroiban, are you talking about the categories for prioritisation?
[16:05] <adiroiban> yes
[16:05] <dpm> I think we could add UNR, for example
[16:06] <adiroiban> ok. where ?
[16:06] <adiroiban> 3 ?
[16:06] <adiroiban> I was thinking to consider UNR at cat 2 - Ubuntu specific stuff
[16:07] <dpm> adiroiban, I'd just put it anywhere in the list for now. I think we should talk whether we want to 'mix' templates of different distros (ubuntu, kubuntu, unr) or give Ubuntu priority
[16:07] <dpm> What do you guys think?
[16:08] <adiroiban> for UNR . Since we don't have to many packages I think we can put them at cat 2 - Ubunte specific
[16:08] <kelemengabor> I think it would be better to handle Ubuntu/Kubuntu separately
[16:09] <adiroiban> I'm an Ubuntu user so I would say to have Ubuntu+UNR in the first place... and the Kubuntu / Xubuntu / Edubuntu
[16:09] <adiroiban> then
[16:09] <dpm> I'm also up for having u
[16:09] <dpm> Ubuntu first, due to a bigger user base
[16:10] <dpm> so at least the ones we're here seem to agree on that
[16:10]  * Riddell disagrees
[16:10] <adiroiban> Any opinion from Kubuntu users?
[16:10] <adiroiban> :)
[16:10] <dpm> ;)
[16:10] <adiroiban> why?
[16:11] <Riddell> it would probably be best to have a list of prority templates for each variant, Ubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Server, Kubuntu etc
[16:12] <Riddell> adiroiban: why?  "I'm an Ubuntu user" isn't a good rationale for this
[16:12] <adiroiban> I would not add Ubuntu Server in the equation
[16:12] <adiroiban> since most of the apps are CLI
[16:12] <dpm> Riddell, yes, but one of those variants should go on top
[16:12] <dpm> we've got only one list
[16:13] <adiroiban> Riddell: :) I agree, I will also go with Ubuntu due to a bigger user base
[16:14] <Riddell> dpm: well whatever, it would be nice to have a way for people to see "have I done the most important templates in Xubuntu"
[16:14] <Riddell> adiroiban: "Ubuntu" is confusing terminology here, "Ubuntu Desktop" is more clear for the desktop edition
[16:15] <dpm> Riddell, yes, we can prioritise per variant, that's not a problem. The question is whether we put all variant's templates one after another or whether we mix them
[16:17] <dpm> i.e. a) first all Ubuntu Desktop templates (prioritised), then Kubuntu templates (prioritised), or b) Higher priority Ubuntu templates, higher prio Kubuntu, less prio Ubuntu... etc
[16:17] <Riddell> may as well bring some order to it
[16:18] <Riddell> although I'd fear people having the attitude of "I use Ubuntu so I'll ignore this batch of Kubuntu ones"
[16:18] <adiroiban> :)
[16:19] <dpm> What I can do for a start is to provide a list of all templates per variant (desktop, unr, kubuntu)
[16:20] <dpm> i.e. those in the default installs, like the one I sent to the list yesterday or the day before
[16:20] <adiroiban> those list are very noisy
[16:20] <adiroiban> lists
[16:20] <dpm> noisy?
[16:20] <adiroiban> a lot of CLI apps
[16:20] <dpm> it's a subset of a bigger list we've got in Launchpad
[16:21] <dpm> we can remove the CLI apps from the list
[16:21] <adiroiban> for Ubuntu we can go with GNOME templates + Ubuntu Specific + some other one manualy selected
[16:21] <adiroiban> and maybe we can do the same for Kubuntu
[16:22] <dpm> yes, I agree, but you still need somewhere you can get an overview of the templates
[16:22] <adiroiban> we can get the GNOME templates from here: http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/ro/gnome-2-28/ui/
[16:22] <adiroiban> we can use the wiki for updating such a list
[16:23] <dpm> hmm, yes, but I've got two concerns with that a) you have to look at them and update them manually
[16:23] <dpm> b) it might list modules which are not installed by default
[16:23] <dpm> it doesn't contain
[16:23] <dpm> things like f-spot
[16:23] <dpm> or tomboy
[16:24] <dpm> since they're not official gnome modules
[16:24] <adiroiban> yes. they will be manualy added in the list
[16:24] <ArneGoetje> FYI: I've talked with Jeroen during the last UDS in Barcelona about this template grouping. The Rosetta team didn't have time yet to implement it and I will poke about it next week during the LP Translations sprint.
[16:24] <adiroiban> just like the other Ubuntu/Kubuntu specific packates
[16:24] <happyaron> dpm, http://l10n.gnome.org/modules , but may need some work then
[16:25] <adiroiban> the list of all modules is also noisy as there are many obsolete modules
[16:26]  * happyaron I have to say, yup
[16:26] <dpm> adiroiban, which ones are obsolete? If they are, we should disable them in LP
[16:26] <dpm> oh I see
[16:26] <adiroiban> I was talking about the gnome modules
[16:26] <dpm> you meant the GNOME one
[16:26] <adiroiban> yep
[16:26] <dpm> yup :)
[16:27] <dpm> well, it seems these are the two main points
[16:28] <dpm> 1) Do we mix templates or do we list them peioritised one variant after another?
[16:28] <dpm> prioritised
[16:28] <dpm> 2) Categories
[16:28] <dpm> of prioritisation
[16:28] <dpm> and perhaps 3)
[16:29] <dpm> How do we set priorities? Variants list? Manual wiki?
[16:30] <adiroiban> for setting priorities: we can start with a bath update (with some help from Rosetta devs) and then have a wiki, subscribe to changes and do manual updates
[16:30] <adiroiban> also if Rosetta dev are to busy I can dedicate my time to set the priorities for all templates
[16:31] <dpm> adiroiban, I think it might be best to do a batch set, it's 1600 templates! :)
[16:31] <dpm> the plan seems good to me though
[16:31] <adiroiban> well I hope we will only have a maximum of 500 templates to set
[16:32] <adiroiban> and the other one will not be changed
[16:32] <adiroiban> also I can create a curl based script for making those changes using the web interface
[16:32] <dpm> if you can do that, sounds good to me
[16:33] <adiroiban> it's not hard to do some post request from the command line
[16:33] <adiroiban> as my accont has the required template update permissions
[16:33] <dpm> ok
[16:34] <adiroiban> going back to our major problem
[16:34] <dpm> so 3) seems sorted. Shall we do a call for feedback on points 1) and 2) on the ML?
[16:34] <adiroiban> since we don't have to many templates in UNR i think we can mix them with Ubuntu Desktop
[16:35] <dpm> ok, yes
[16:35] <adiroiban> since Xubuntu in not in main , those templates are not in Rosetta
[16:35] <dpm> that's right, we're only looking at the (desktop, kubuntu, unr) variants
[16:36] <adiroiban> and we have to decide if we should also mix Ubuntu (mostly GNOME) and Kubuntu (moslty KDE) templates
[16:36] <dpm> or desktop + kubuntu, if we mix unr with desktop
[16:37] <dpm> I'd go for not mixing them, and if we do, only mix those which are specific to the distro
[16:37] <ArneGoetje> dpm, adiroiban: my idea in my talks with jtv was to use debtags for classification and add a combobox in Rosetta to choose which template group to display. Then the templates for that group are filtered and displayed by priority.
[16:37] <adiroiban> my first idea was to mix them, but to have some manualy define exception so that for example nautilus or dolphin could be listed in the top of the list
[16:38] <adiroiban> like here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/TemplatesPriority#Templates%20with%20a%20high%20user%20visiblity
[16:39] <adiroiban> the only problem with manual defined priority list is that we should find someone willing to dedicate the required time to creat the list.
[16:40] <adiroiban> I can help with the Ubuntu top priority packages
[16:40] <adiroiban> Riddell: do you think we can find someone from Kubuntu willing to help with this issue?
[16:41] <Riddell> I can do a crude version easily  enough (and I don't think there's any reliable  way  to do anything better)
[16:41] <adiroiban> ok
[16:41] <dpm> Riddell, that would be a good start, though
[16:41] <adiroiban> so we should have the top 50 temples for Ubuntu and top 50 for Kubuntu
[16:41] <adiroiban> or 100
[16:42] <adiroiban> the idea is to have the most important templates / the visible to 95% of users
[16:43] <adiroiban> Riddell: feel free to add them in the wiki and send them via email
[16:43] <adiroiban> since we don't have to many participant at this meeting
[16:43] <adiroiban> we can try to get some feedback via ubuntu-translators ML
[16:43] <adiroiban> in order to see if we should mix them or not
[16:44] <dpm> yes, I agree
[16:44] <happyaron> pro
[16:45] <dpm> does anyone want to send an e-mail to the ML to ask feedback on that? Otherwise I can do it
[16:45] <adiroiban> I can do it
[16:46] <adiroiban> any other comments regarding those categories ?
[16:46] <dpm> [ACTION] adiroiban to send e-mail to the ubuntu-translators ML to ask for feedback on whether to mix desktop/kubuntu templates or not
[16:46] <MootBot> ACTION received:  adiroiban to send e-mail to the ubuntu-translators ML to ask for feedback on whether to mix desktop/kubuntu templates or not
[16:47] <adiroiban> should we add or remove some of them ? is the order ok ?
[16:47] <dpm> IMO they look good (good work Adi), although I would perhaps not put the bootloader at the top
[16:48] <adiroiban> those are the first text from a live cd
[16:48] <dpm> the question is whether most of the users install K/Ubuntu or simply use it
[16:49] <dpm> i.e. someone else installed it
[16:49] <adiroiban> yep. but I think we should have them translated as a top priority
[16:49] <adiroiban> since a full review of the system will also include the install process
[16:50] <adiroiban> also I think that we have many users that just try the livecd
[16:50] <adiroiban> without installing it
[16:51] <adiroiban> and the bootloader contains the language switcher and the „Try Ubuntu without any changes on the computer”
[16:51] <dpm> ok, that's a good point.
[16:51]  * happyaron agree with Adi
[16:52] <dpm> but still, there's d-i and ubiquity which people using Ubuntu in a e.g. library or school will never see
[16:52] <dpm> anyway, I don't have a problem with them being on top
[16:52] <dpm> I'm just mentioning it
[16:53] <dpm> they are just a few packages, so it can be refined afterwards if we want to anyway
[16:53] <adiroiban> dpm: you are also right... most of the non-technical users will not use d-i
[16:53] <kelemengabor> dpm: if your admin is unable to install Ubuntu because the installer is not translated, you won't even see the other parts :P
[16:53] <adiroiban> :p
[16:53] <dpm> hehehe
[16:53] <kelemengabor> so I think it's important too
[16:53] <happyaron> :)
[16:54] <dpm> so, it's 3 against one, you get it on top, then :P
[16:54] <adiroiban> :D
[16:54] <dpm> so, now we come to the point where we have to decide whether we want to continue the meeting for longer than the planned hour :)
[16:55] <adiroiban> we should postpone  the ubuntu docs part
[16:55] <adiroiban> and make a common ubuntu-docs and ubuntu-translators meeting
[16:55] <adiroiban> i have just added it in the agenda as a reminder
[16:55] <dpm> ok, sounds good to me
[16:56] <dpm> thanks Adi
[16:56] <adiroiban> I know kelemengabor is keen to see help.ubuntu.com translated :)
[16:56] <kelemengabor> sure!
[16:56] <dpm> :)
[16:57] <kelemengabor> sugo.ubuntu.hu is working nicely, help.u.c should have that love too
[16:57] <adiroiban> is there any meeting at 16 UTC?
[16:57] <adiroiban> kelemengabor as far as I know we will not have multilanguage support in h.u.c
[16:57] <dpm> no, it seems there isn't
[16:58] <dpm> a meeting
[16:58] <adiroiban> rather we will help loco teams to set up their own help pages
[16:58] <adiroiban> and help wiki
[16:58] <adiroiban> and suport forums
[17:00] <kelemengabor> well, that's another good option
[17:00] <adiroiban> next topic/feedback: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations
[17:01] <dpm> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Translations project feedback
[17:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Translations project feedback
[17:01] <adiroiban> do you think we are doing the right thing by grouping all bugs under ubuntu-translations project, or is just a waste of time ?
[17:02] <dpm> adiroiban, I think it's useful to a) get an overview of translations bugs and b) be able to subscribe to bug mail, BUT...
[17:02] <dpm> we should do a better job at triaging the bugs
[17:03] <dpm> some of them are only added to the u-t project and are not followed up
[17:03] <dpm> so perhaps
[17:03] <dpm> we should organise translation hug days for triaging
[17:04] <dpm> or adopting translation bugs :)
[17:04] <ArneGoetje> dpm: maybe we should clarify what we use the available bug states for
[17:04] <ArneGoetje> dpm: like currently we only use New, Invalid and Fix Released. :)
[17:04] <dpm> ArneGoetje, yes, you are right, we should document the process a bit, even for ourselves :)
[17:04] <kelemengabor> bug days are a good idea
[17:05] <dpm> the Kubuntu translations day a while back was very useful in fixing or identifying i18n bugs
[17:05] <dpm> so perhaps we could do the same for Ubuntu
[17:06] <kelemengabor> I'd participate :)
[17:06] <dpm> cool
[17:07] <dpm> going back to what ArneGoetje was saying, also maybe people should be encouraged to assign bugs in the ubuntu-translations project to themselves
[17:07] <dpm> even if they can't fix them, they could take care of tracking them
[17:07] <dpm> and pestering the relevant devs :P
[17:07] <adiroiban> that should be the actual solution
[17:08] <ArneGoetje> +1. Then we also know about who is working on which bugs
[17:08] <adiroiban> but I don't know if we could find the required force to drive those changes/action/work
[17:09] <dpm> well, we have to start somewhere :) And I think it is already a big improvement to the wiki page we had before, so again, good job on starting the project!
[17:11] <dpm> we should start a page documenting the ubuntu-translations project
[17:11] <dpm> Maybe with a section under "Policies" in the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/ page
[17:11] <dpm> on how to report translation bugs
[17:11] <dpm> and the workflow
[17:13] <happyaron> dpm, +1 from me
[17:13] <adiroiban> ok. so basicaly we are on the right track... but we need to work harde :p
[17:13] <adiroiban> harder
[17:13] <dpm> :)
[17:14] <adiroiban> ok
[17:14] <adiroiban> I think it's enough for today
[17:15] <adiroiban> I will try to arrange a common ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-translators meeting
[17:15] <adiroiban> and see how if the collaboration between those teams is ok
[17:15] <dpm> we could perhaps have a short round of Q+A, if you like, or leave it here. What do you guys say?
[17:15] <adiroiban> or where we can improve
[17:17] <adiroiban> it looks like we don't need the q+a part
[17:17] <dpm> ok, sounds good to me
[17:18] <dpm> so guys, thanks a lot for your participation
[17:18] <adiroiban> thanks
[17:18] <dpm> see you around!
[17:19]  * dpm claps
[17:19] <dpm> #endmeeting
[17:19] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:19.
[17:19] <adiroiban> #ubuntu-translators more precisly
[22:55] <forumsmatthew> I'm here, too
[22:55] <Technoviking> afternoon
[22:55] <ubuntugeek> hello
[22:55] <bapoumba> 'evening Technoviking !
[22:55] <jdong> hello, all :)
[22:56] <bapoumba> hey forumsmatthew & ubuntugeek
[22:56] <ubuntugeek> Hi
[22:56] <forumsmatthew> greetings
[22:58] <Amaranth> FC meeting?
[22:59] <ubuntugeek> Yes
[22:59] <bapoumba> Amaranth, yep
[22:59] <ubuntugeek> Shall we get this party started..
[22:59] <forumsmatthew> ready when you are
[22:59] <ubuntugeek> I'm ready, so pretty light agenda today.
[22:59] <ubuntugeek> Let's talk about the forums upgrade.
[23:00] <forumsmatthew> Have you looked at the strides made by phpBB lately?
[23:00] <ubuntugeek> Yes!
[23:00] <ubuntugeek> I think we need to start fresh by removing these forums and putting up a new fresh forum with phpbb
[23:01] <ubuntugeek> start over, clean slate
[23:01] <forumsmatthew> it would satisfy the "hey, this isn't open source" crowd
[23:01] <bapoumba> W00t !
[23:01] <ubuntugeek> True it would
[23:01] <jdong> yeah, that definitely sounds nice :)
[23:02] <forumsmatthew> you guys take all the fun out of trolling. ;)
[23:02] <ubuntugeek> boo
[23:02] <jdong> we need to port over the IE6-like error pages though ;-)
[23:02] <bapoumba> Experts we have become
[23:02] <forumsmatthew> lol
[23:02] <ubuntugeek> Anyways, we are a few revisions behind on our forum software patches so I would like to schedule a downtime to put those patches in.
[23:03] <forumsmatthew> when would be good for you?
[23:03] <ubuntugeek> we are looking at about 20 minutes of downtime. I'm thinking tomorrow morning around 8am EST.
[23:03] <Technoviking> I think any time would be fine except during the glocal jam and 9.10 release day
[23:03] <ubuntugeek> Right
[23:04] <forumsmatthew> that should work. We could put up an announcement today and leave it up until we're done
[23:04] <forumsmatthew> minimize the freak outs
[23:04] <jdong> announcement definitely needed
[23:04] <ubuntugeek> Yep, agreed. I'll take care of that after the meeting.
[23:04] <bapoumba> +1
[23:04] <jdong> we are probably seeing higher traffic due to the beta already
[23:04] <Technoviking> only 10000:)
[23:04] <forumsmatthew> yeah, it's not too bad atm
[23:06] <forumsmatthew> any other thoughts or business?
[23:06] <ubuntugeek> Traffic is pretty on par with last month
[23:06] <jono> Technoviking, :)
[23:07] <Technoviking> There was talk in the mailing of restricting sigs for naughty and new users
[23:07] <ubuntugeek> Yes.. that will be interesting to implement
[23:07] <Technoviking> is it possible without templete voodoo?
[23:08] <ubuntugeek> Yeah, just more complex voodoo in the backend.. but very doable.
[23:08] <forumsmatthew> I can think of a couple of ways (new user group with auto advance after X posts, like we do with the user title bit)
[23:08] <forumsmatthew> my way would require less hacking, but wouldn't be as fun
[23:08] <ubuntugeek> The question is how many posts before we promote the user?
[23:08] <ubuntugeek> to have the ability to use sig's
[23:08] <bapoumba> 15 was discussed I think
[23:09] <Technoviking> I say betwen 10-25, just enough to bore the spammers
[23:09] <jdong> I'd say something like the order of 15-25 is reasonable
[23:09] <ubuntugeek> How about 25 and be a member for 7 days
[23:09] <forumsmatthew> I would say 10 should be enough
[23:09] <jdong> 10 and a week sounds good to me
[23:09] <forumsmatthew> we could also limit those new accounts to posting in non-cafe locations
[23:09] <Technoviking> jdong: +1
[23:09] <forumsmatthew> jdong: +1
[23:09] <bapoumba> +1
[23:10] <ubuntugeek> -1
[23:10] <forumsmatthew> re: non-cafe. Just to make the "I'm going to troll by creating a duplicate account thing" a bit harder
[23:10] <ubuntugeek> we need more then 10 people
[23:10] <jcastro> hi guys
[23:10] <forumsmatthew> okay
[23:11] <forumsmatthew> hey, jcastro . welcome
[23:11] <jcastro> sorry I am late, I thought this was next week for some reason
[23:11] <bapoumba> 25 ubuntugeek ?
[23:11] <bodhi_zazen> 'lo all =)
[23:11] <forumsmatthew> I'm okay with 25. any higher seems excessive
[23:11] <bapoumba> hey bodhi_zazen
[23:11] <forumsmatthew> hi, bodhi
[23:11] <jdong> yeah I think 25 is as high as I'd like to go...
[23:11] <bodhi_zazen> sorry I am late
[23:11] <jdong> I've been at forums before that used 25 posts for posting IMG links
[23:12] <Technoviking> same here
[23:12] <jdong> and users tended to find that excessive
[23:13] <Technoviking> jcastro: we are just finishing one thing and then we can chat with you
[23:13] <Technoviking> so 25 and one week
[23:14] <jdong> Technoviking: +1
[23:14] <bapoumba> okay
[23:14] <forumsmatthew> yeah, I'm okay with 25 posts / 7days. +1
[23:14] <Technoviking> If we get many complaint about the limit we can revitist
[23:14] <Technoviking> revisit
[23:14] <Technoviking> :)
[23:14] <ubuntugeek> 10 posts is easy for a spammer
[23:14] <forumsmatthew> good point
[23:15] <jdong> I still have a feeling that 7 days is hard for them :)
[23:15] <jdong> but either way, we can fine-tune the parameters later on
[23:15] <jdong> having the framework there is most important
[23:15] <ubuntugeek> yep
[23:15] <ubuntugeek> +1
[23:15] <forumsmatthew> any thoughts about the "limited to non-cafe posts" idea? good/bad/not worth implementing?
[23:16] <bodhi_zazen> I would -1 that
[23:16] <bapoumba> well was that not 25 posts in support area ?
[23:16] <ubuntugeek> I that would incite a riot :)
[23:16] <jdong> hmm I'm initially -1
[23:16] <bodhi_zazen> either we have a cafe or we do not
[23:16] <jdong> 25 support posts is quite a lot
[23:16] <ubuntugeek> Since cafe posts don't count anways
[23:16] <jdong> we don't want to be suggesting that new users should try hard to post 25 things in the support areas
[23:16] <forumsmatthew> that's reasonable
[23:16] <Technoviking> forumsmatthew: I like it, I think we need a user group for people who get naughty in the cafe, but still allow access to the tech areas
[23:17] <bodhi_zazen> I think moderation should be with a "light touch" as topics in the cafe are controversial and we do not want to appear biased
[23:17] <forumsmatthew> topics in the cafe shouldn't be controversial
[23:17] <bapoumba> can we prevent one member to post in one specific thread ?
[23:17] <forumsmatthew> that was what the now-failed backyard was for
[23:17] <ubuntugeek> bap: permissions are on a category level
[23:17] <bodhi_zazen> lol
[23:18] <bapoumba> ubuntugeek, ok
[23:18] <ubuntugeek> Shall we discuss items with jcastro now
[23:18] <forumsmatthew> I'm convinced we don't need this. However, since it had been brought up in the staff forum and we had not had an opportunity to discuss it, I thought we should
[23:19] <forumsmatthew> yep
[23:19] <jcastro> hi everyone! Thanks for having me.
[23:19] <ubuntugeek>  /wave
[23:19] <jdong> our pleasure
[23:19] <forumsmatthew> hi
[23:19] <bapoumba> hello jcastro
[23:19] <jcastro> So what I would like to do is collect a set of concerns/ideas/whatever from you for things the community team can help you with
[23:19] <Technoviking> hey Jorge
[23:20] <jcastro> so basically, what can the community team do in the 10.04 cycle for you
[23:20]  * jcastro waves back
[23:20] <bapoumba> jcastro, do you have specific ideas ?
[23:20] <jdong> well I guess admittedly I'm not very familiar with what the Community Team does
[23:21] <ubuntugeek> Jdong: me either
[23:21] <jcastro> well, so for example lately I've been monitoring the karmic forums
[23:21] <jcastro> and helping getting calls for testing out.
[23:22] <jcastro> jdong: ok so basically, there's me to do upstream relations, daniel does internal developer stuff, and david does translations
[23:22] <jdong> jcastro: upstream, as in upstream with respect to Ubuntu?
[23:22] <jcastro> so is there any areas in the forums where you feel we could improve interaction with other parts of the project for example?
[23:23] <jcastro> jdong: yes, so like, Debian, GNOME, etc.
[23:23] <bapoumba> we have a devlink forum that is not much used by devs
[23:23] <jdong> gotcha
[23:23] <jcastro> bapoumba: yeah, I was just thinking that
[23:23] <bapoumba> :)
[23:23] <jdong> improving communications between us and the developers is definitely a big TODO area
[23:23] <jcastro> bapoumba: but lately I think 23meg and I have just been posting the calls for help directly in the karmic forum
[23:23] <Amaranth> jdong: I try :)
[23:23] <jcastro> which I think works better anyway
[23:23] <jdong> I still get the feelings that a good chunk of the developer community are generally disinterested in looking at the forums :)
[23:24] <jdong> (or use it as a running gag)
[23:24] <bapoumba> jcastro, yes
[23:24] <jdong> Amaranth: I do too ;-)
[23:24] <Technoviking> jdong been better in release cycle
[23:24] <ScottK> +1 on being disinterested in looking at forums.
[23:24] <bapoumba> jcastro, is there still a need for the devlink forum ?
[23:25] <jcastro> yeah but do you really need/want all the developers reading the forums? What would that accomplish?
[23:25] <jcastro> I think getting feedback from forum users to developers is more than enough
[23:25] <jcastro> bapoumba: I am not sure. Maybe?
[23:25] <jdong> jcastro: well we're primarily interested in getting information (useful) from the forums to the developers, and vice-versa
[23:25] <bapoumba> jcastro, I'm just asking
[23:25] <bapoumba> jcastro, many threads get created there and get moved to other forums
[23:25] <jdong> I don't blame the devs; the forums tend to have a poor signal to noise ratio
[23:26] <jdong> that is only naturally when you have a large freely-posting community
[23:26] <jdong> natural*
[23:26] <jcastro> bapoumba: well, for me personally I think posting directly to the dev forum at the time gets more eyes on like calls for help and stuff
[23:27] <bapoumba> jcastro, okay :)
[23:27] <Amaranth> Wasn't there a forum team that was supposed to pass along interesting ideas and problems people were having to developers?
[23:27] <Amaranth> And/or encourage and help with writing bug reports
[23:27] <jcastro> IMO that's happening
[23:27] <jcastro> I've seen people start a topic, discuss, and then go file a bug and link it back
[23:28] <bapoumba> Amaranth, I think branstorm took over the flux of ideas
[23:28] <bodhi_zazen> I find filing bug reports frustrating =)
[23:28] <bapoumba> *brainstorms
[23:28] <jcastro> yeah but you can't get certain vibes from brainstorm
[23:28] <jcastro> for example the 348573945 page thread on the software store wouldn't have happened on brainstorm
[23:29] <Technoviking> bodhi_zazen: ubuntu_bug <package name> FTW!!!
[23:29] <bodhi_zazen> It may be my fault, but it does not seem the communication on bug reports is very good
[23:29] <forumsmatthew> it depends on the bug, the maintainer, and the quality of info left
[23:29] <ScottK> jcastro: Getting forum complaints turned into bugs is a very good thing.
[23:29] <bapoumba> bodhi_zazen, like on forums, depends on who handles the thread
[23:30] <jdong> well the bugtracker is not the place for free conversation
[23:30] <jdong> which is a good thing (tm)
[23:30] <jcastro> ScottK: I think that's happening decently. 23meg seems to be pretty good at whipping long threads into proper reports
[23:30] <ScottK> That's good to hear.
[23:30] <bapoumba> ScottK, jcastro many forums people do that (report bugs and link back)
[23:30] <jcastro> bapoumba: I think that's good
[23:31] <jcastro> ok, so that's actionable, I can put "encourage people to use the forums to discuss bug reports"
[23:31] <ScottK> That's a much more effecient way to communicate problems to developers than getting developers to look at bugs.
[23:31] <jcastro> so perhaps we can keep the discussion in the forums, and then people can selectively put the good stuff in the report
[23:31] <jcastro> as opposed to having a bug report with lolcats on it.
[23:32] <bapoumba> we keep the lolcats ^^
[23:32] <ScottK> Sounds good.
[23:32] <Technoviking> jcastro: +1, will pull back and forth debate from LP, and keeo bug report cleaner for the dev
[23:32] <Amaranth> jcastro: But bug reports with 400 comments are so easy to read!
[23:32] <jcastro> ok, what else?
[23:33] <Technoviking> Amaranth: and War and Peace is light reading:)
[23:33]  * Amaranth found an awesome patch for Xorg lost in such a bug report today, is a bit bitter
[23:33] <jcastro> I think self-policing has gotten a ton better
[23:34] <jcastro> I see people asking if someone has filed a  bug and linking to it
[23:34] <Technoviking> ubuntugeek: Will we need server resources during the next cycle, before the release o Ubuntu 10.04 LTS?
[23:34] <jcastro> and also people asking to confirm someone's NEW bug, which I think is good
[23:35] <Technoviking> jcastro: What can the forums do during the Gobal Jam,(should have thought of this sooner, sorry)
[23:35] <Technoviking> s/gobal/global
[23:35] <ubuntugeek> technoviking: I think we'll be ok, since we resolved the slave crashing things have been pretty smooth. We
[23:35] <jcastro> Technoviking: I don't know, I should have thought of it sooner too
[23:35] <jcastro> Technoviking: I guess the local teams can use it to link up with people close to them
[23:36] <jcastro> I think global jam is more irc-ish and more real-life interaction
[23:36] <Technoviking> We could create a prefix for the karmic forum (UGJ) for people post, ask for bug confirmation,etc...
[23:37] <jcastro> that could work
[23:37] <forumsmatthew> I'm really sorry, all. I have to go.
[23:37] <jcastro> I'll take an item to do more forum interaction for the global jam
[23:37] <Technoviking> I will atleast create a stick/announement for it tonight
[23:37] <forumsmatthew> thanks to jcastro and everyone for being here!
[23:37] <jcastro> thanks forumsmatthew@
[23:37] <ubuntugeek> Yep thanks all
[23:37] <bapoumba> bye forumsmatthew
[23:37] <jcastro> anything else?
[23:37] <bodhi_zazen> bye forumsmatthew
[23:37] <Technoviking> I can't think of anything
[23:38] <jcastro> ok, so in that case, just feel free to ping me throughout the cycle if you need anything
[23:38] <jcastro> my email is jorge at ubuntu.com
[23:38] <ubuntugeek> Sounds good jorge
[23:38] <jdong> we'll definitely be in contact as ideas come up
[23:38] <jcastro> brutal.
[23:38] <Technoviking> thanks
[23:38] <jdong> look forward to working with your team
[23:38] <jcastro> omgpinkponies
[23:39] <ubuntugeek> :P
[23:39] <maco> jcastro: no you cannot have a pony
[23:39] <jcastro> <-- not yours
[23:39] <Technoviking> Ubuntu Pink Ponies for 13.x would be awesome
[23:40] <maco> is this the FC?
[23:40] <ubuntugeek> Does anyone have any other topics to discuss?
[23:40] <Technoviking> nope
[23:40] <bodhi_zazen> no
[23:40] <Technoviking> hiya maco
[23:40] <ubuntugeek> Great, thanks for coming everyone.
[23:40] <bapoumba> not from me
[23:41] <jdong> all set here
[23:42] <Technoviking> later all
[23:42] <ubuntugeek> Until next month then. See you all later
[23:42] <bapoumba> bye !
[23:42] <jdong> bye!
[23:42] <Joeb454> hello and bye to everyone then :)
[23:42] <Joeb454> I forgot :(
[23:43] <ubuntugeek> Its ok Joe
[23:43] <bapoumba> hey Joeb454 :)
[23:46] <Joeb454> thanks ubuntugeek :)
[23:46] <Joeb454> and hey bapoumba
[23:47] <Joeb454> I've read up anyway, so I have a vague idea of what was discussed