[15:59]  * marjo waves
[16:00] <ttx> o/
[16:00]  * apw zones in
[16:01]  * kees waves
[16:01] <apw> anyone got a copy of the agenda, mine seems to be missing
[16:01]  * robbiew does the robot
[16:01] <lool> (I dont have much network and wont stay long anyway)
[16:01]  * slangasek waves
[16:01]  * asac__ waves
[16:01]  * apw asks slangasek for a copy of the agenda
[16:01] <ScottK> \o
[16:01] <slangasek> sorry, beta work precluded me being able to prepare an agenda in advance
[16:02] <ogra> yo
[16:02] <apw> oh
[16:02] <robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-10-02
[16:02] <slangasek> oh hey
[16:02] <njpatel> hey
[16:02] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is slangasek.
[16:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-10-02
[16:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-10-02
[16:02] <slangasek> robbiew: thank you :)
[16:04] <slangasek> [TOPIC] actions from previous meetings
[16:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  actions from previous meetings
[16:04] <slangasek>   * cr3 to ensure that the QA team collects and processes feedback about the filebug redirect change
[16:04] <slangasek>   * cr3, marjo to follow through on netbooks missing from the hw certification lab
[16:04] <slangasek>   * davmor2 to work with ttx on creating a test plan for eucalyptus
[16:05] <slangasek>   * pitti to ensure that we have test plans/release notes for all specs
[16:05] <slangasek>   * lool to ask humanity upstream to prepare a colour revert for bug #430277 ('''Update Below''')
[16:05] <slangasek>    * Design team requested that we try to include the work from latest Humanity upstream tree which consists of:
[16:05] <slangasek>     * updated notification area icons, darker, so that they display nicely on the desktop
[16:05] <slangasek>     * new Humanity-Dark theme which is Humanity with lighter black and white notification area icons to display nicely under UNR
[16:05] <slangasek>    If we want this (release team and desktop team should decide too), Loic plans to put the new theme in the same binary package and update the UNR gconf settings in desktop-switcher and unr-default-settings.  This is still tracked in LP #430277.  The Humanity-Dark theme should "Inherit:" the Humanity theme so the new icons should make a minor difference in binary package size / CD size.
[16:05] <slangasek>   * slangasek to get linux-ec2 into main for beta ('''Done''')
[16:05] <slangasek>   * zul to get new ec2-init sorted today
[16:05] <slangasek>   * smoser to test vmbuilder patch to use germinate ('''Done''')
[16:05] <slangasek>   * slangasek to follow up with the kernel team wrt ARM, EC2 kernel
[16:05] <slangasek> refreshes for beta (done, uploaded over the weekend)
[16:05] <slangasek> marjo: cr3 mentioned to me yesterday that there was only one netbook still missing from the cert lab?
[16:05] <marjo> Several changes have been made to the wiki page which users are
[16:05] <davmor2> slangasek: I worked with ttx and will again on monday to update
[16:05] <marjo> redirected to in an effort to address issues raised.  The QA team is
[16:05] <marjo> also actively monitoring the internet for feedback and issues regarding
[16:05] <marjo> the redirect.  We have also been monitoring newly reported bugs to see
[16:05] <marjo> the effect redirection has had.
[16:06] <cr3> slangasek: the netbook has arrived yesterday afternoon and it's been successfully tested
[16:06] <marjo> slangasek: i was going to cover that later
[16:06] <marjo> but, what cr3 said.
[16:06] <slangasek> cr3: that's the one mathiaz had to hand though, right?  So we've had a test of the hardware, but that unit's not staying in the cert lab?
[16:07] <slangasek> pitti not here to comment on test plans
[16:07] <asac__> slangasek: pitti said he followed up by mail on his spec/work-item action ... so thats done.
[16:07] <cr3> slangasek: that was the original plan, but the permanent netbook arrived when mathiaz was actually in the office handing over his own netbook :)
[16:07] <slangasek> asac__: ok, thanks
[16:07] <slangasek> cr3: ah, heh
[16:08] <slangasek> zul: ec2-init is "sorted", I guess?  I don't remember the details of that - was that about main inclusion?
[16:08] <ttx> slangasek: yes
[16:09] <ttx> that was about sponsoring changes
[16:09] <slangasek> lool: if you don't have much time, should we take up the Humanity discussion later?
[16:09] <slangasek> ttx: ok, good
[16:09] <slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
[16:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
[16:10] <marjo> Karmic Beta Test Report
[16:10] <marjo> 2009-10-02
[16:10] <marjo> == Test Coverage ==
[16:10] <marjo> Image Test Coverage = 100%
[16:10] <marjo> Test Case Test Coverage = 99%
[16:10] <marjo> Alpha 6 Test Coverage = 58%
[16:10] <marjo> [16:10] <marjo> Kubuntu DVD i386 - Ubiquity OEM
[16:10] <marjo> Kubuntu Netbook i386 - Wubi
[16:10] <marjo> [16:10] <marjo> 15 Test Failures
[16:10] <marjo> Failure Rate = 15/194 = 8%
[16:10] <marjo> Alpha 6 Test Failure Rate = 15%
[16:11] <marjo> Testers ran out of time on two untested, otherwise we would have hit 100%!
[16:11] <marjo> == Bugs summary ==
[16:11] <marjo> [16:11] <marjo> 38 bugs unfixed
[16:11] <marjo> Critical - 0
[16:11] <marjo> High - 11
[16:11] <marjo> Medium - 8
[16:11] <marjo> Low - 4
[16:11] <marjo> Undecided - 15
[16:11] <marjo> [16:11] <marjo> 11 bugs fixed
[16:11] <marjo> Critical - 1
[16:11] <marjo> High - 7
[16:11] <marjo> Low - 1
[16:11] <marjo> Undecided - 2
[16:12] <marjo> BTW, a detailed test report will be available by email
[16:12] <marjo> any questions, so far?
[16:13] <slangasek> will we still be able to get coverage of those 2 remaining test cases?  even though beta is out, it would be good to get the feedback in advance of final
[16:13] <marjo> slangasek: yes, will work w/ davmor2 & jdridell
[16:13] <slangasek> ok, great
[16:14] <davmor2> I can kill em
[16:14] <davmor2> wubi will most likely fail
[16:14] <marjo> anything else, otherwise the emailed test report will be very detailed
[16:14]  * slangasek notes that the "failure rate" is a bit misleading, since for most of those tests we also had (sometimes multiple) successful test results
[16:15] <slangasek> marjo: I think that's good, thanks
[16:15] <ScottK> Particularly in the case of the Kubuntu Netbook Wubi test, since that's never worked.
[16:15] <marjo> scottk: point taken
[16:15] <ogra> ScottK, juet because you didnt try it on armel yet :P
[16:15] <slangasek> ScottK: should wubi be removed from the KNE image for final?
[16:15] <ogra> *just
[16:16] <ScottK> slangasek: I suspect it will work now.
[16:16] <ScottK> It just needs to be tested.
[16:16] <slangasek> oh
[16:16] <cjwatson> well, as well as the rest of wubi anyway
[16:16] <slangasek> ok
[16:16] <ScottK> Exactly.
[16:16] <ScottK> AFAIK this is the first milestone where we got wubi to work at all.
[16:17] <ScottK> There were some Alpha 3 KNE specific issues, that I think got resolved and it'd be nice to know for sure.
[16:17] <slangasek> given the difficulties in getting wubi working this cycle, I think we need to not wait until the RC to re-test it
[16:17] <ScottK> Agreed.
[16:17] <ScottK> Unfortunately, I can't test it, so someone else will need to volunteer.
[16:17] <slangasek> marjo, cjwatson, davmor2: would it be possible for you guys to coordinate some ongoing testing of wubi with the dailies between now and RC?
[16:18] <davmor2> I was going to
[16:18] <marjo> slangasek: yes, will work with them and ara, too
[16:18] <slangasek> [ACTION] marjo, davmor2 to coordinate ongoing testing of wubi with the dailies between now and RC
[16:18] <MootBot> ACTION received:  marjo, davmor2 to coordinate ongoing testing of wubi with the dailies between now and RC
[16:18] <cjwatson> yep
[16:18] <cjwatson> some possible fixes were in the post-beta queue that just got flushed
[16:18]  * slangasek nods
[16:19] <slangasek> shall we move on to hw testing?
[16:19] <marjo> slangasek: i didn't see that on the agenda
[16:20] <slangasek> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
[16:20] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
[16:20] <marjo> let me look quickly
[16:20] <slangasek> marjo: true... it ought to be a standing item, but in any case the status looks pretty good
[16:20] <marjo>  Laptops:
[16:20] <marjo>         passed:   26 (84%)      failed:    1 ( 3%)      untested:  4 (13%)
[16:20] <marjo>         Servers:
[16:20] <marjo>         passed:   42 (88%)      failed:    0 ( 0%)      untested:  6 (12%)
[16:20] <marjo>         Desktops:
[16:20] <marjo>         passed:   10 (100%)     failed:    0 (  0%)     untested:  0 (  0%)
[16:20] <lool> slangasek: Sorry dropped off the net
[16:20] <marjo> there's the summary
[16:21] <marjo> yes, it's looking good
[16:21] <slangasek> that failure also predates beta (2009-09-17)
[16:21] <fader_> slangasek: My bad -- I retested with the beta but forgot to update the date
[16:21] <marjo> all have bugs and/or RT tickets associated with them
[16:21] <fader_> I'll fix that now
[16:21] <slangasek> fader_: still a failure?
[16:21] <fader_> It's the same bug though
[16:21] <fader_> Yep
[16:21] <marjo> fader is tracking all
[16:22] <slangasek> marjo, fader_: thanks for staying on top of this
[16:22] <marjo> slangasek: welcome
[16:23] <slangasek> marjo: any other concerns from you guys regarding QA for release?
[16:23] <marjo> need to keep on top of outstanding unfixed bugs
[16:23] <marjo> as detailed in the Beta Test Report
[16:23] <mdz> marjo: how are we doing on regressions?
[16:24] <marjo> mdz: last time brian and I ran report,
[16:24] <marjo> it looks like there were over 115 regression potentials vs. same time last release
[16:25] <mdz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/regression/regression_tracker.html
[16:25] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/regression/regression_tracker.html
[16:25] <slangasek> marjo: 115 /more/ compared to last time?
[16:25] <mdz> we seem to have quite a few bugs marked as regressions but not triaged
[16:25] <cjwatson> there are 117 now, can't believe we only had 2 this time last release :)
[16:26] <marjo> slangasek: no, 50+ vs. 115+, therefore more than doubled
[16:26] <slangasek> ok
[16:26] <marjo> need to do more analysis; not obvious why
[16:27] <slangasek> yes, some more triaging of that list is needed; I'll do some today / next week, is there someone on QA who can help with this?
[16:27] <apw> perhaps we have more testers
[16:27] <slangasek> I wonder if it isn't partly more widespread adoption of the tags
[16:27] <marjo> slangasek: yes, bdmurray can help out
[16:27] <slangasek> (I know /I/ tagged more regressions this cycle than last
[16:27] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek and bdmurray to garden the regression-potential bugs
[16:27] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek and bdmurray to garden the regression-potential bugs
[16:28] <marjo> i think it's a combination of more testing & more diligent bug reporting, but don't want to jump to conclusions
[16:28] <marjo> thanks for the action item
[16:29] <davmor2> slangasek: I can run trough them in my smoke testing and see if they are still valid for you too.
[16:31] <slangasek> davmor2: the regressions?  I think those are going to be spread out, so would be best handled by dedicated testing
[16:31] <davmor2> np's
[16:31] <slangasek> anything else on QA?
[16:32] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
[16:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
[16:32] <slangasek> marjo, cr3, fader_: thanks
[16:32] <asac__> so pitti is not here, but he prepared a report
[16:32] <asac__> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:32] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:32] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:32] <asac__> on the RC bug front it look ok from what i see
[16:33] <asac__> for triaged ones the modem-manager PUK one is currently in progress upstream
[16:33] <asac__> empathy bug is making progress according to kenvandine
[16:33] <asac__> for the needs understanding bugs kenvandine also said he had some ideas on the empathy crash
[16:34] <asac__> i will remove the firefox XID one from release team radar
[16:35] <asac__> the critical battery action not triggered bug is assigned to pitti, so i think it will make progress soon
[16:35] <asac__> on the networking one i have something about ath9k that scares me a bit.
[16:35] <asac__> bug 439723
[16:35] <ScottK> For 438445, we've decided to go back to the upstream approach.  The current patch (even if it was working consitently OK) is socially very problematic with upstream (we asked, they said don't do it that way, and then we did anyway).
[16:36] <cjwatson> do you think bug 428920 might be a desktop issue? it looks like an X failure to me
[16:36] <asac__> seems like we are having regressions for old ath9k chips ... but i am currently trying to understand how common those are
[16:37] <asac__> cjwatson: hmmm ... not sure. i will check with tseliot
[16:37] <cjwatson> thanks
[16:37] <Riddell> Kubuntu?
[16:38] <cjwatson> it wasn't clear from the log, there's just "Backtrace:" at the end but no actual backtrace :)
[16:38] <asac__> Riddell: yes. please comment on the kubuntu status
[16:38] <cjwatson> but that made me suspicious
[16:38] <Riddell> Kubuntu Beta was in reasonable beta quality shape
[16:38] <Riddell> the issues on my radar for final are..
[16:38] <Riddell>  * Some kcontrol modules missing translations
[16:38] <Riddell>  * KDM/ksmserver hangs on logout
[16:38] <Riddell>  * KPacakgeKit broken probably due to policykit crash
[16:38] <Riddell>  * "tech-preview" warning to be added to kubuntu netbook ubiquity
[16:38] <Riddell>  * microblog applet broken
[16:38] <Riddell> I need to find the bugs for those and make sure  they're milestoned
[16:39] <Riddell> but I'm optimistic it's all do-able for final
[16:39] <slangasek> [ACTION] Riddell to find bugs for kubuntu release issues and make sure they're milestoned
[16:39] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Riddell to find bugs for kubuntu release issues and make sure they're milestoned
[16:39] <slangasek> :)
[16:40] <Riddell> oh and  upgrade from hardy
[16:40] <Riddell> mvo  needs  to do something to make that possible
[16:40] <Riddell> which he says  should  be fine
[16:42]  * Riddell done
[16:42] <slangasek> probably not critical for karmic, as long as the upgrade path is sorted in time for Lucid?
[16:42] <ScottK> slangasek: It is critical for karmic
[16:42] <slangasek> (otherwise, folks can go hardy->jaunty->karmic)
[16:42] <slangasek> oh?
[16:42] <slangasek> ok then
[16:42] <Riddell> well Kubuntu Hardy is just about to lose support
[16:42] <ScottK> Hardy Kubuntu is EOL
[16:42] <slangasek> I thought there was a working upgrade path already via jaunty
[16:43] <Riddell> there is that but well, karmic is infinately better than jaunty, it connects  to networks for one thing
[16:43] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to look at possible Kubuntu-only EOL announcement for 8.04
[16:43] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to look at possible Kubuntu-only EOL announcement for 8.04
[16:43] <slangasek> Riddell: mm, right
[16:43] <slangasek> ok
[16:43] <slangasek> anything else on the desktop?
[16:43] <davidbarth> DX?
[16:44] <asac__> go ahead
[16:44] <slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Tem
[16:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  DX Tem
[16:44] <slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
[16:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
[16:44] <davidbarth> The summary is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
[16:44] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
[16:44] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
[16:44] <davidbarth> in particular for the detail of the updated packages, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicWeeklyReleases (thanks kenvandine)
[16:44] <davidbarth> of note this week
[16:44] <davidbarth> notify-osd 0.9.23 bug fix release; warning: that release triggers a temporary regression with a gpm patch that is still queued for karmic
[16:45] <davidbarth> # bug fix releases of libindicate, indicator-messages and indicator-session (crasher - #436181 in particular)
[16:45] <davidbarth> # dbusmenu: nasty ordering bug (#430904) in the works, planned for next week
[16:45] <davidbarth> reverted indicator-session to not show the user list sub-menu because of a regression in gdm (#438720)
[16:45] <davidbarth> new xsplash fixing a release blocker (#439059)  (thanks robbiew and all those who helped narrow down the issue)
[16:46]  * ogra noticed also a commit that fixes the horribly distroted graphics on 16bpp for xsplash :)
[16:47] <davidbarth> we have a couple of milestoned bugs that we're on; still some crashers
[16:47] <davidbarth> and yes, a fix for the 16bpp bug ;)
[16:48] <davidbarth> questions?
[16:49] <slangasek> none here
[16:49] <asac__> davidbarth: do you need help on the gpm patch that is still queued? does that need some work or sponsoring?
[16:49] <slangasek> anyone else?
[16:50] <davidbarth> asac__: yes, if you can speed that up, that will limit the temp. regression; that's really minor though
[16:50] <asac__> ok. lets talk after meeting in -desktop
[16:50] <davidbarth> asac__: ok
[16:50] <slangasek> [ACTION] asac__ to follow up on notify-osd/gpm regression
[16:50] <MootBot> ACTION received:  asac__ to follow up on notify-osd/gpm regression
[16:51] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
[16:51] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
[16:51] <slangasek> asac__, davidbarth: thanks
[16:51] <ogra> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:51] <ogra> -
[16:51] <ogra>  * UNR: icons were discussed with upstream, upstream wants some additional changes to the themes (more details in the report above and in Loïcs mail exchange with release and desktop team)
[16:51] <ogra>  * moblin: still unstable, work going on, more merges
[16:51] <ogra>  * armel:
[16:51] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:51] <ogra>    - various new kernel bugs showed up on imx51 during beta testing
[16:51] <ogra>    - dove images went through beta fine
[16:51] <ogra>    - openoffice breakage seems to be actually toolchain breakage, being fixed by doko atm
[16:53] <slangasek> icons> I understand that lool is under some significant pressure to accept a new upstream drop of the humanity package
[16:53] <ogra> right, thats how i understood his mail
[16:53] <slangasek> just as a reminder, the artwork freeze is in effect - we should not be taking batch drops of new themes that aren't related to specific bugfixes at this point in the cycle
[16:54] <doko_> ogra: I still doubt it ... but the upcoming upload works around it
[16:54] <ogra> yeah, i should have written "being worked on" :) instead of "fixed"
[16:54] <Amaranth> The new icons are also needed to have a good experience with the Dust theme (which is currently broken because it tries to use Human)
[16:55] <slangasek> even the suggestion of bundling the new dark theme in the existing binary package is problematic, given that the existing theme is a 1.6MB package
[16:55] <ogra> yeah, its graphics ...
[16:55] <ogra> usually not small
[16:56] <slangasek> Amaranth: I understand, but we need to find a solution that's consistent with where we are in the release cycle and doesn't introduce significant risk of regressing for release
[16:56] <Amaranth> (new icons are 30K when compressed with bzip2)
[16:57] <ogra> it replaces all notification area icons as i understand it
[16:57] <slangasek> I'll follow up with lool about this on Monday, but I just wanted to make sure the release manager's position on this was clear that this needs to go through the proper freeze procedures, since lool seems to be quite uncomfortable with what's being proposed
[16:57] <Amaranth> Right, it replaces the current monochrome notification area icons with lighter versions
[16:58] <ogra> slangasek, he also asked to possibly note opinions on the bug
[16:59] <slangasek> ogra: as for armel - a number of kernel bugs that had been milestoned to beta for armel got deferred to final; I wasn't overly bothered at doing this given our current target audience for armel, but is there anything blocking us on getting these fixed with time to spare for final?
[17:00] <slangasek> kernel freeze is coming soon
[17:00] <doko_> slangasek: I may be able to free 1.7MB (gzip compressed) on the CDs
[17:00] <ogra> well, some have patches that arent getting ,merged and a package upload for imx51 is pending i was told ... as well that amit is on holiday next week
[17:01] <slangasek> doko_: thanks - as usual, will take everything we can get :)
[17:01] <ogra> slangasek, i agree, its very close and i'd really like to see more progress especially for imx51 ...
[17:01] <slangasek> Amaranth: uncompressed size also matters in the case of liveCDs, btw - but it's good to know these shouldn't have a serious impact on ISO size; if you could add that information to the bug, that would be helpful
[17:01] <slangasek> ogra: "aren't getting merged" - why not?
[17:02] <Amaranth> Will do
[17:02] <ogra> pleanty of these bugs are open since quite some time
[17:02] <slangasek> disagreements about correctness?  lack of time?
[17:02] <ogra> the latter is my suspicion
[17:02] <ogra> the fix  for missing sound support is there since two weeks or so
[17:02] <slangasek> that's bug #420447?
[17:02] <apw> ogra, if you can summarise what is pending that would help, we have a heap of bugs over hear
[17:03] <ogra> apw, thats what my report does :)
[17:03] <ogra> right, this one definately has a patch ... not sexy but will at least give us sound support
[17:04] <ogra> my prob is that i couldnt test a single audio app for the whole release yet
[17:04] <ogra> which very likely will produce subsequent bugs once i can
[17:05] <apw> sounds like kernel and ogra need to interlock more directly, as 'in my report' isn't getting them onto my radar
[17:05] <slangasek> ogra: could I ask you to send apw a summary by email of the items you believe currently have merges outstanding for kernel?
[17:05] <apw> yeah that would help me a lot
[17:05] <ogra> yes
[17:06] <ogra> apw, i'll contact you on monday
[17:06] <apw> ogra, probabally to the kernel-team list would be good, cc: me too so i don't miss it
[17:06] <apw> sounds good
[17:06] <slangasek> [ACTION] ogra to email apw the list of armel kernel bugs for which merges are outstanding
[17:06] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to email apw the list of armel kernel bugs for which merges are outstanding
[17:06] <ogra> apw, also, is there someone taking amits role wrt imx51 during his holiday ?
[17:06] <ogra> given the freeze is so near and we have so many opens ?
[17:07] <apw> ogra, i am not sure who, but someone must be looking over it
[17:07] <apw> after it ... get the info to the list and i'll bounce on people to find out who is going to look after it
[17:07] <ogra> i dont mean outstanding merges but the open bugs
[17:08] <slangasek> apw: separately, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.searchtext=linux-fsl-imx51&milestone=12698 should be on the radar of someone on the kernel team for final
[17:08] <apw> ogra, how big is the audience for this platform?  imx51 ?
[17:09] <ogra> apw, no idea, how does that matter ?
[17:09] <ogra> its an arch we commited to
[17:09] <ogra> and i expect that it is supported as well as the others
[17:09] <apw> for prioritising reasons, we arn't likely to close every bug, so we need to know where to put our effort
[17:10] <ogra> out of 19 bugs being tagged armel atm 10 are imx51 kernel bugs
[17:10] <ogra> indeed, i dont expect all bugs to get closed
[17:10] <ogra> as i dont expect all bugs being closed on my i386 laptop
[17:10] <apw> so knowng how big a slice of our affected userbase they are helps us prioritise them in with our others
[17:11] <slangasek> apw: I think at this point you should have all the information needed to track the outstanding issues, correct?  So informed decisions about delivery/deferral can be made offline?
[17:11] <ogra> right, no need to exted the meeting with this
[17:11] <apw> indeed so
[17:11] <ogra> *extend
[17:12] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
[17:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
[17:13] <apw> ..
[17:13] <apw> Overall kernel team status is summarised at the URL below, including the bugs called out in the agenda.  We seem to be seeing the start of the flow of bugs resulting from wider beta testing:
[17:13] <apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[17:13] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[17:13] <apw> We have started receiving and integrating 2.6.31.x stable updates, some 90 patches in the first batch with another 120 or so in .2 due around now.  Futher work has been committed to work round some recurring brightness issues.  As have a number of i915 updates for new hardware.
[17:13] <apw> All of the items which impact the distro release schedule remain basically complete, the arm branches are now up to date and basically working, bugs being worked as normal, integration is deemed complete there.  We continue to focus on regression-potential bugs, including focusing this weeks bug day on new bugs.
[17:13] <apw> (modulo the discussion here on imx51 status)
[17:14] <apw> ..
[17:16] <davmor2> slangasek: 1 test left
[17:16] <slangasek> 395358> fwiw, that summary is wrong, the hotkey should not be handled by the kernel as a "hw kill" at all...
[17:18] <apw> slangasek, though the key is connected to the HW at the acpi level and is making your bluetooth appear and dissappear at the hardware level, right?
[17:18] <slangasek> apw: "another 120 or so" - how well do these things seem to be converging?
[17:18] <slangasek> apw: no, it's connected to the HW *by the kernel*
[17:18] <slangasek> apw: this hotkey never does *anything* in ACPI; this is entirely a kernel regression that it's now toggling everything
[17:18] <slangasek> sorry if that wasn't clear
[17:19] <apw> i thought it was toggling everything by toggling the sw rfkill and in parallel the hw rfkill was toggling in the right sequence at least as evidenced for bluetooth
[17:19] <apw> leading to bad overall semantics
[17:19] <slangasek> that's entirely new behavior in karmic
[17:20] <apw> right as sw kill didn't exist at all
[17:20] <apw> before karmic ...
[17:20] <slangasek> I believe the kernel is force-detaching the device; it's not done by ACPI
[17:20] <slangasek> anyway, we can discuss that offline
[17:20] <apw> ack
[17:20] <slangasek> now, as for merging the stable patches
[17:20] <slangasek> 120 patches - how soon are these going to land in karmic?
[17:20] <slangasek> kernel freeze is 2 weeks away
[17:21] <slangasek> and we'll want to leave room for fixing regressions that turn up...
[17:21] <apw> i am expecting them by weds next week, as they have appeared in the commit emails for stable
[17:21] <apw> they could be sooner.  it is l ikley that is the last of the stable updates we can get in before freeze
[17:22] <slangasek> ok; if they slip past next Wednesday, I think we'll want to discuss whether it makes sense to upload them before release, or defer .2 as an SRU
[17:22] <apw> slangasek, ACK
[17:22] <slangasek> anyone have anything else to discuss on kernel?
[17:23] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
[17:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
[17:23] <slangasek> apw: thanks
[17:23] <slangasek> ttx: hi
[17:23] <ttx> hey
[17:24] <ttx> updated status at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:24] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:24] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:24] <ttx> We are also looking at the packages /other/ than Eucalyptus
[17:24] <ttx> to see if there wouldn't be good candidates that we missed sight of
[17:25] <slangasek> that's good :)
[17:25] <ttx> we also expect more people to test server now that it's beta
[17:25] <ttx> even if traditionally server doesn't get tested that much before release
[17:25]  * slangasek nods
[17:26] <ttx> we should push some public calls to encourage people to do testing server now
[17:26] <slangasek> is there a particular forum where you think that will be effective, other than the places where beta has already been announced?
[17:26] <slangasek> or do you think an explicit call for server testing to the same channels is what's needed?
[17:26] <ttx> I think we (team) need to blog about it, so that it shows on server aggregators
[17:27] <slangasek> ok
[17:27] <ttx> On the release management front...
[17:27] <ttx> beta still showed some weakness on the UEC/EC2 release automation
[17:27] <ttx> that smoser will work to cover.
[17:28] <ttx> we might need to do some dry runs
[17:28] <ttx> with the release team cooperation
[17:28] <slangasek> yes, I would like to work with smoser to get publishing integrated as much as possible with the existing cdimage script suite
[17:29] <ttx> now that we ahve a reasonably working UEC stack we'll also call for testers on that side
[17:29] <ttx> "test it, its easier than it sounds"
[17:29] <ttx> the hardware requirement is the major blocker to that.
[17:29] <slangasek> that should help us avoid any fat-fingering at publishing time, as well as getting us prettiness like file descriptions in the index
[17:29] <ttx> yes. Beta should have been the opportunity to do that, but we were late
[17:29] <smoser> slangasek, ttx we've got lots of work to do there. the uec stuff shouldn't be hard, but the ec2 just needs some work.
[17:30] <smoser> it was ec2 that i fat fingered
[17:30] <ttx> that's why I suggest some dry runs now.
[17:30] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek and smoser to coordinate dry-runs of UEC/EC2 publishing next week, in advance of RC
[17:30] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek and smoser to coordinate dry-runs of UEC/EC2 publishing next week, in advance of RC
[17:31] <ttx> That's about it on our side... questions, comments, additions ?
[17:31] <slangasek> not from me
[17:31] <ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-ec2-release-process needs to be retargeted
[17:32] <ttx> but I don't have the power to do so
[17:32] <ttx> it should be considered completed when automation is ready.
[17:33] <ttx> that's all from me.
[17:33] <slangasek> retargeted
[17:33] <ttx> I knew you could do that :)
[17:33] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
[17:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
[17:33] <slangasek> ttx: thanks :)
[17:33] <jdstrand> o/
[17:33] <slangasek> jdstrand: hi
[17:33] <jdstrand> hi
[17:33]  * ttx disappears
[17:34] <jdstrand> so this week, now that we have a release meeting under our belt, we created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:34] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:34] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:34] <ttx> jdstrand: copycat
[17:34] <jdstrand> ttx: :P
[17:34]  * ScottK notes he really enjoyed downloading an OOo security update on the same day the beta was released.
[17:34] <jdstrand> we are in bug fixing mode and have 4 bugs
[17:35] <jdstrand> ScottK: that was a nive touch eh? I had to be careful about not ying up the buildds too
[17:35] <jdstrand> bug #434084
[17:35] <jdstrand> nothing new to report (no feedback from community maintainers yet, but will continue to follow-up)
[17:35] <jdstrand> bug #437854
[17:35] <jdstrand> apparmor profile denies access to alsa (have patch, will be in next upload)
[17:35] <jdstrand> bug #438165
[17:36] <jdstrand> apparmor profiles are never deleted (have patch, will be in next upload)
[17:36] <jdstrand> bug #439726
[17:36] <jdstrand> kees is working on it
[17:36]  * slangasek nods
[17:36] <jdstrand> on our radar, but a kernel bug is bug #427948
[17:36] <jdstrand> I'm told the kernel team should have a fix before freeze
[17:37] <jdstrand> other than what is in the wiki, I don't have anything else to report
[17:37] <slangasek> sounds good
[17:37] <slangasek> anyone else have any questions for security?
[17:38] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
[17:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
[17:38] <slangasek> jdstrand: thanks!
[17:38] <slangasek> cjwatson: hi
[17:38] <jdstrand> slangasek: sure thing!
[17:39] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic mostly up to date (we so need to move over to a format more like the desktop team's, but for lucid ...)
[17:39] <cjwatson> significant bug reduction from last meeting; I think we're down to a fairly manageable range again, and boot is definitely settling
[17:39] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[17:39] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[17:39] <cjwatson> still some problems with fsck timestamp problems, which boil down to a combination of (a) interaction between NTP and filesystem timestamps not being updated on umount (b) hardware clock mis-setting in d-i (hopefully not ubiquity though), and a few remaining boot corner cases
[17:39] <cjwatson> various boot/shutdown tidiness issues, which we'll attack incrementally but we need to consider them strictly less important than actual failures to boot; real polish here will be for lucid; Scott and I are working on some usplash improvements between us, too
[17:39] <cjwatson> Wubi worked in some cases for beta, but the system seems quite unstable. We discovered that the syncio option went missing from ntfs-3g in a merge a while back, so we'll see if it gets more stable once we have a build with that restored
[17:39] <cjwatson> (end, sorry this is kind of brief)
[17:41] <slangasek> when we're 10 minutes over, brevity is nothing to apologize for ;)
[17:41] <slangasek> any questions for Foundations?
[17:42] <cjwatson> I understand we're under some pressure to make the boot tidy, which is why I included an explicit statement there that boot failures do need to take precedence
[17:42] <cjwatson> but we'll do what we can
[17:43] <slangasek> seems we're down to 3 known boot failure bugs currently
[17:43] <slangasek> so if anyone is seeing boot failures that don't fit those descriptions... please make sure they get filed/escalated
[17:43] <slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
[17:43] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
[17:43] <slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
[17:43] <slangasek> ScottK: hi
[17:43] <ScottK> o/
[17:44]  * sistpoty|work waves
[17:44] <ScottK> FTBFS is still my major concern
[17:44] <slangasek> sistpoty|work: hi as well :)
[17:44] <sistpoty|work> *nod*
[17:44] <ScottK> I few people are contributing fixes, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to the problem.
[17:44] <ScottK> FFe processing is going reasonably well.
[17:44] <slangasek> [LINK] http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html
[17:44] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html
[17:44] <sistpoty|work> slangasek: can you post something to u-d-a about FTBFS with your next post?
[17:44] <ScottK> I think we finished clutter transition duing the beta freeze.
[17:45] <ScottK> Maven is a mess and needs some focus to get it in sync.
[17:45] <slangasek> sistpoty|work: I think it warrants a dedicated post, rather than waiting for my next one; maybe you would like to draft something?
[17:45] <ScottK> There is some end user complaining, but no one has stood up to do it.
[17:45] <sistpoty|work> slangasek: sure, can do... I'll send you the draft once I have one ;)
[17:46] <sistpoty|work> (or paste it somewhere)
[17:46] <slangasek> sistpoty|work: sounds good, thanks
[17:46] <ScottK> Other than that, things seem to be in reasonably good shape.
[17:46] <ScottK> I've been remiss in having the discussion with the rest of the team on final freeze timing for universe.
[17:46] <ScottK> I guess that's more urgen now.
[17:47] <ScottK> ... urgent ...
[17:47] <ScottK> That's all I have
[17:47]  * sistpoty|work doesn't have anything to add
[17:47] <slangasek> anyone else have questions on MOTU?
[17:47] <slangasek> ScottK, sistpoty|work: thanks, guys
[17:48] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[17:48] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[17:48] <sistpoty|work> thanks slangasek
[17:48] <slangasek> I have one note here
[17:48] <slangasek> win 21
[17:48]  * ScottK guesses that isn't it.
[17:48] <slangasek> no :)
[17:48] <slangasek> lamont has said he's going to be pushing new karmic chroot tarballs out over the weekend
[17:48] <slangasek> so expect some slight delays to builds during that period (but hopefully nothing more disruptive than that )
[17:50] <slangasek> anything else? <gavel in the air>
[17:50] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[17:50] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:50.
[17:50] <slangasek> thanks, all!
[17:59] <highvoltage> *beep*
[18:00]  * stgraber waves
[18:00] <highvoltage> hi stgraber, LaserJock, alkisg
[18:00] <alkisg> Hi all!
[18:02] <LaserJock> who's going to chair today?
[18:02] <alkisg> ^^^ :)
[18:04] <alkisg> ace_suares won't be here today
[18:04]  * highvoltage seconds LaserJock for chair
[18:05] <LaserJock> #startmeeting
[18:05] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:05. The chair is LaserJock.
[18:05] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:05] <LaserJock> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Meeting
[18:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Meeting
[18:05] <LaserJock> ^^ our agenda
[18:06] <LaserJock> let's get a list of attendees before be begin, raise your hand if you're here for the Edubuntu Meeting
[18:06] <LaserJock> o/
[18:06] <alkisg> o/
[18:06] <dinda> o/
[18:06] <highvoltage> \o.
[18:06]  * stgraber waves again
[18:07] <LaserJock> ok, so I see we have all 3 Edubuntu Council members in attendance and have a quorum, very nice
[18:08] <LaserJock> I think I will insert the EC agenda items first to make sure they get handled
[18:08] <LaserJock> who all is here applying for Edubuntu Membership today ....
[18:09] <alkisg> o/ ! :)
[18:09] <LaserJock> ok
[18:09] <LaserJock> [TOPIC] alkisg Edubuntu Membership application
[18:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  alkisg Edubuntu Membership application
[18:10] <highvoltage> alkisg: do you have a wiki page up with your nomination details?
[18:10] <alkisg> I've put some short cv info on my ubuntu wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlkisGeorgopoulos
[18:10] <LaserJock> excellent
[18:11] <LaserJock> alkisg: what wiki pages on UbuntuLTSP are you particularly proud of?
[18:12] <alkisg> Here's one: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
[18:12] <alkisg> I'm mostly proud because that option, i.e. easily booting LTSP in an environment with an existing, external DHCP server wasn't available before,
[18:13] <alkisg> so I tried to ask for help from the dnsmasq & gpxe developers, and they implemented this, and now many schools use that method
[18:14] <alkisg> Another one is a method to boot ltsp from a PC that already has windows installed, and no boot from lan option: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/grubgpxe
[18:14] <LaserJock> alkisg: how long have you been contributing directly to Edubuntu (user support, helping plan, scripts, wiki, etc.)?
[18:15] <alkisg> I've first used edubuntu 2 years ago, so I didn't have much time to contribute.
[18:15] <alkisg> The first 6 months I was mostly learning, unable to contribute. After that I'm mostly in #ltsp and in #edubuntu helping wherever I can.
[18:16] <alkisg> Like I say in the wiki page, $ grep alkisg .purple/logs/irc/alkisg@irc.freenode.net/#ltsp.chat/* | wc -l
[18:16] <alkisg>  17960
[18:16] <LaserJock> highvoltage, stgraber : any questions from you?
[18:16] <alkisg> ==> that's a lot of chatting :D
[18:16] <stgraber> nope, I know him quite well mainly on #ltsp, so it's all good for me
[18:16] <highvoltage> alkisg: if you could change anything in edubuntu, what would be the first thing(s) you'd change?
[18:17] <alkisg> highvoltage: Difficult question. I think that now that LTSP has moved to the alternate CD (ok it's back now in the DVD, but not the main focus of edubuntu anymore), that I'd try to make it easier for the teacher to setup a lab using edubuntu.
[18:18] <alkisg> I.e. LDAP/NFS "installers" or some other method (sshfs?) for classroom/account management
[18:18] <highvoltage> alkisg: I'm quite interested in the greek spin that you're planning on
[18:18] <highvoltage> alkisg: are there any features you're planning for it that won't be in Edubuntu?
[18:18] <alkisg> I know what greek schools need, as I'm in constant touch with many many Greek teachers.
[18:18] <highvoltage> alkisg: and if so, will you assist in getting those features into edubuntu over the long term?
[18:19] <alkisg> So I'd like to make a remix that would make it very easy for them to install a lab
[18:19] <alkisg> There are some greek edu apps that I'd put there, which won't be of any interest to the edubuntu community
[18:20] <alkisg> Other than that, any installers / scripts etc I'm going to make, I'll try to make them as upstream projects, with greek being only a translation
[18:20] <LaserJock> alkisg: also, when you're done with highvoltage's question, roughly how many schools/kids are using Edubuntu/Ubuntu LTSP in Greece?
[18:21] <alkisg> LaserJock: it's really difficult to turn people here to using FLOSS. E.g. they use the trial versions of winzip/winrar and if you tell them that 7zip does the same thing without the annoying popups, they ignore you
[18:21] <alkisg> So it'll take a lot of effort to switch many of them. I'd estimate that about 50 Greek schools now use Ubuntu with or without LTSP
[18:21] <alkisg> Multiply that with about 100-200 students...
[18:22] <LaserJock> k, glad to see it getting a toe-hold
[18:22] <alkisg> But we made some good progress; e.g. I've set  up a repository with about 10 Gb of greek educational software
[18:22] <LaserJock> [VOTE] Edubuntu Membership for alkisg
[18:22] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Edubuntu Membership for alkisg.
[18:22] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[18:22] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[18:22] <alkisg> ...and now with a "sudo apt-get install gymnasio" they can install all of it
[18:23] <alkisg> So I'm hoping that with the remix, many more will be interested in switching to FLOSS.
[18:23] <LaserJock> +1
[18:23] <MootBot> +1 received from LaserJock. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[18:23] <stgraber> +1 for a very good work on documentation, beta test and work on scripts for both LTSP and iTalc
[18:23] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[18:24] <highvoltage> I'm saying +1 because he stuck with us through some tough times, he's in touch with real life schools out there, he has some good plans for the future and he's good to have around
[18:24] <highvoltage> (on top of the other reasons, of course)
[18:24] <highvoltage> oh
[18:24] <highvoltage> +1
[18:24] <MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[18:24] <LaserJock> do I need to end a vote? if so, how?
[18:25] <stgraber> LaserJock: #endvote ? (just a guess)
[18:25] <LaserJock> #endvote
[18:25]  * LaserJock thinks that didn't help
[18:25] <stgraber> hmm, or not ;)
[18:25] <stgraber> look in your pms
[18:25] <stgraber> sometimes the bot send you a private message with some instructions
[18:25] <LaserJock> it just says please vote
[18:26] <highvoltage> [ENDVOTE]
[18:26] <LaserJock> [ENDVOTE]
[18:26] <stgraber> [endvote]
[18:26] <MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
[18:26] <LaserJock> heh
[18:26] <highvoltage> interesting.
[18:26] <alkisg> Thank you all! I strongly believe you won't be disappointed. :)
[18:26] <LaserJock> alkisg: now get to work!
[18:26] <alkisg> (I'll be around for the next 30 years or so to prove it :))
[18:27] <highvoltage> alkisg: welcome as an officially recognised Ubuntu contributor!
[18:27] <stgraber> alkisg: enjoy your @ubuntu.com and @edubuntu.org ;)
[18:27] <alkisg> Heh, nice! :)
[18:27] <highvoltage> we have to remember to report this to the CC too
[18:27] <LaserJock> [TOPIC] cleaning out the ~edubuntu-members membership requests
[18:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  cleaning out the ~edubuntu-members membership requests
[18:28] <LaserJock> we have a ton of membership requests sitting there
[18:28]  * stgraber has got to go reboot a server, will be back in a minute
[18:28] <LaserJock> what should we do about them?
[18:28] <highvoltage> some people have confused ~edubuntu-members with "the ubuntu team"
[18:29] <highvoltage> so when someome wanted to join edubuntu as a contributor, they requested a join there
[18:29] <highvoltage> there's a number of people that haven't ever added their name to an agenda or gave us any kind of ping
[18:29] <highvoltage> perhaps just reject them and add a link that explains ubuntu membership and the process for applying?
[18:30] <LaserJock> one of the reasons I wanted to get ownership of the team from the CC is to change the team so that people can't join
[18:30] <LaserJock> I mean, not apply through LP
[18:30] <LaserJock> they'd have to be added by the EC
[18:30] <highvoltage> that makes sense. a member can be added after they have applied successfully
[18:31] <LaserJock> the plus side is we don't get a bunch of people who have no relation to Edubuntu on there
[18:31] <LaserJock> the minus side is people we *do* want can't just hit the button to be on the list for the next EC meeting
[18:31] <LaserJock> they'd have to put themselves on the agenda most likely
[18:31] <highvoltage> LaserJock: but that never worked anyway
[18:32] <highvoltage> LaserJock: if someone doesn't add their name on the agenda or doesn't show on the meeting, nothings going to happen anyway
[18:32] <LaserJock> right
[18:33] <dinda> how many people are we talking about?
[18:33] <LaserJock> we have 31 proposed members
[18:33] <LaserJock> there are only 10 *in* the team :-)
[18:33] <dinda> it seems like since the overall membership shifted from the CC to various councils, the numbers of folks applying has dwindled - or rather been manageable due to the various teams
[18:34] <dinda> doesn't seem much different from the other council processes, to add one's name to the meeting agenda
[18:34] <highvoltage> yep.
[18:35]  * stgraber is back
[18:35] <LaserJock> ok, so what if we 1) sent an email out to edubuntu-devel/edubuntu-users that we're going to purge the list and explain the process 2) purge the proposed 3) make the text of ~edubuntu-members clear for people who do want to apply
[18:36] <stgraber> sounds good (just finished reading the backlog)
[18:36] <LaserJock> 4) we should have an open team where people who just want to be fans or begin contributing can join
[18:36] <nubae> hi folks... sorry to come late...
[18:36] <highvoltage> yep, perhaps just include CC on step 1
[18:36] <LaserJock> nubae: great to see you!
[18:36] <nubae> ditto :-)
[18:36] <dinda> sounds like a good plan
[18:36] <highvoltage> (sorry if I'm a bit pedantic on that atm, it's just so that we keep them in the loop about membership stuff)
[18:36] <alkisg> Hey nubae
[18:37] <LaserJock> ok, so who wants to do what on that list?
[18:37] <LaserJock> I can do 1 and 3
[18:37] <nubae> url? sorry if asking for the umpteenth time :-/
[18:37] <LaserJock> nubae: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Meeting but we're a bit OT at the moment
[18:37] <dinda> what does purging entail?  a council person going into LP and rejecting all?
[18:37] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I can do 1 2 or 3. si I'll go with 2 then
[18:38] <LaserJock> dinda: with a nice message, yeah
[18:38] <LaserJock> actually 4 we should wait on and do with the LP team cleanup
[18:38] <LaserJock> agreed?
[18:38] <dinda> LaserJock: indeed :)  "Bad news - you 've been rejected!  Good news - we have new process!"
[18:38] <highvoltage> yep
[18:39] <highvoltage> dinda: it's really pretty much the same process as always
[18:39] <highvoltage> dinda: we never approved any members purely on an LP application
[18:39] <highvoltage> dinda: the changes is really just so that people don't accidentally half-way apply
[18:40] <LaserJock> or at least not letting people shot themselves in the foot
[18:40] <dinda> it is confusing, when there are several LP groups; like the doc team, each with a different level of contributors and some just wanna be contributors looking for mentoring
[18:40] <nubae> I'd like to quickly see how what I'm doing at work might fit into something usable also for edubuntu...
[18:41] <LaserJock> [ACTION] LaserJock to email edubuntu-{devel,users} and CC that we will be purging the proposed ~edubuntu-members LP applications
[18:41] <highvoltage> dinda: yep, it is a bit.
[18:41] <MootBot> ACTION received:  LaserJock to email edubuntu-{devel,users} and CC that we will be purging the proposed ~edubuntu-members LP applications
[18:41] <nubae> so when u have a moment, I'll talk about it a bit...
[18:41] <LaserJock> [ACTION] highvoltage to do the purging, with a nice message explaining how to correctly apply
[18:41] <MootBot> ACTION received:  highvoltage to do the purging, with a nice message explaining how to correctly apply
[18:42] <LaserJock> [ACTION] general Edubuntu contributor/fan open LP team should be created/re-purposed during LP team cleanup
[18:42] <MootBot> ACTION received:  general Edubuntu contributor/fan open LP team should be created/re-purposed during LP team cleanup
[18:42] <LaserJock> any other EC business?
[18:42] <stgraber> ok, I have a broken RAID controler on a production system, I'll just kick off a reinstall and be back in two minutes
[18:42] <stgraber> sorry for that
[18:43] <highvoltage> LaserJock: nothing that need attention right now
[18:43] <LaserJock> OK
[18:43] <highvoltage> (and my dinner is getting cold :p)
[18:43] <alkisg> :)
[18:43] <LaserJock> should we let nubae start while stgraber is away?
[18:44] <nubae> he can read the backlog
[18:44] <highvoltage> yep
[18:44] <LaserJock> [TOPIC] report from nubae
[18:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  report from nubae
[18:44] <nubae> ok, well basically at work we are creating what we are calling a resource manager
[18:45] <nubae> It is basically a method whereby a teacher might create xmpp groups (MUCs generally)
[18:45] <nubae> and students would see these from a little applet on their systems, and join the corresponding group
[18:46] <nubae> basically we are using the underlying telepathy framework to communicate with these apps using dbus python bindings
[18:46] <nubae> tell me if this gets too technical and/or needs explanation
[18:47] <nubae> The idea is that by a teacher creating these groups, he can attachn xmpp based resources to them
[18:47] <highvoltage> nope, please continue
[18:47] <stgraber> I'm back
[18:47] <nubae> for example, enable chat, enable group based streaming (vino, vinagre)
[18:47] <nubae> enable italc
[18:48] <nubae> jclic... etc
[18:48] <nubae> so its a way for students to get access to any group based applications, and a teacher to manage the membership to these
[18:48] <nubae> does that make sense so far?
[18:49] <stgraber> sure, probably doesn't only apply to schools, I can see quite a lot of corporate use for that as well
[18:49] <LaserJock> so essentially you're running the classroom over telephathy?
[18:49] <nubae> We want to use a jabber server to do the majority of traffic routing, though there is fallback mechanism to salut
[18:49] <nubae> LaserJock, yes, I guess u could say that :-)
[18:49] <highvoltage> I know one corporate who paid millions for a commercial system like that that integrates with AD
[18:50] <nubae> The future is to attach any telepathy based app to the resource manager and enable/disable memberhsip to it
[18:50] <nubae> Yeah, telepathy is amazingly cool like that, in that it ties into the whole communications system of the desktop
[18:50] <nubae> be it kde or gnome, or things like Sugar
[18:50] <dinda> highvoltage: exactly, that is definitely something we could use in training classrooms
[18:50] <alkisg> Can the teacher forcefully include a student? Or the students have to join themselves?
[18:51] <LaserJock> nubae: so the teacher can easily create/edit these groups and their memebrship?
[18:51] <nubae> now, what we do is essentially communicate with mission control to do the majority of these tasks
[18:51] <nubae> LaserJock, yes there are 2 parts to it, a "xmpp resource manager" (for lack of a better label)
[18:53] <nubae> which the teacher launches, then can create groups, based on multi user chatrooms
[18:53] <nubae> these MUCs can then have tubes launched in them to enable collaboration
[18:54] <nubae> I'm trying to keep the technoical details out of it, but its hard to seperate at this stage... but to really simplify it... 2 apps, the teacher's resource manager to create groups and manage permissions to apps
[18:54] <nubae> and the students app, which grabs available groups (think of them as classrooms or subjects)
[18:55] <nubae> and allows membership to them
[18:55] <LaserJock> very cool stuff
[18:55] <nubae> the teacher sees the students joining groups
[18:55] <LaserJock> it would be nice to see something like that make it into Edubuntu 10.04
[18:55] <nubae> and can thereby be sure the right people are in the right groups, etc
[18:56] <nubae> well... this is a pretty serious project at work right now, and we've got a good 4 people working on it
[18:56] <nubae> We hopefully dont need to touch any C, and can do most of it with python via dbus bindings
[18:56] <LaserJock> we'd obviously need the telepathy bits and probably a jabber server
[18:57] <nubae> which is what telepathy is advertised as enabling (btw... for those interested, try apt-get install telepathy-inspector, great tool to see how all this works)
[18:57] <nubae> yes, one needs telepathy, especially mission control installed
[18:57] <nubae> telepathy-gabble and telepathy-salut
[18:57] <nubae> ejabberd preferrably
[18:57] <LaserJock> nubae: if you could get together 1) a list of software we'd need and 2) when the time comes (if it's not there yet) some tarballs or something of the apps
[18:58] <nubae> and then the 2 apps we are creating, as well as any apps that work with telepathy as recommended
[18:58] <alkisg> I imagine that many other apps could also utilize a group management framework like this... good work nubae! :)
[18:58] <LaserJock> indeed
[18:58] <nubae> Yeah, most likely we'll create a launchpad page and manage it that way
[18:59] <nubae> so hopefully we can easily move from PPA to wherever
[18:59] <LaserJock> yeah
[18:59] <LaserJock> keep us posted
[18:59] <LaserJock> we're almost out of time here
[18:59] <nubae> yeah, so if anyone is interested in this, please contact me
[18:59] <LaserJock> I'm not sure if there's another meeting or not
[18:59] <nubae> sorry for taking up the time :-/
[18:59] <LaserJock> do we have any other pressing issues?
[19:00] <LaserJock> nubae: no, not at all
[19:00] <highvoltage> np nubae, thanks for sharing :)
[19:00] <LaserJock> nubae: that's really exciting stuff
[19:00] <LaserJock> the last thing I wanted to point out is we have Edubuntu 9.10 Beta DVD's available
[19:00] <highvoltage> LaserJock: oh awesome. who did the testing?
[19:00] <LaserJock> [LINK] http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/9.10/beta/
[19:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/9.10/beta/
[19:01] <LaserJock> highvoltage: davmor2 !
[19:01] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I felt quite terrible today when I saw all the other announcements and just assumed there wasn't an ubuntu one
[19:01] <nubae> ah nice... lets go take a look :-)
[19:01] <highvoltage> LaserJock: well davmore2 ftw!
[19:01] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I guess we should also make some noise about that then
[19:01] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I added an Edubuntu section to the Ubuntu release announcement
[19:01] <LaserJock> yeah, make noise!
[19:01] <highvoltage> LaserJock: thanks!
[19:01] <LaserJock> and especially try to get some testing done
[19:02] <LaserJock> this is sort of our last chance to get rid of show stoppers in the installer, etc.
[19:02] <LaserJock> OK, so with that
[19:02] <nubae> was gonna ask, what needs testing on the dvd?
[19:02] <LaserJock> sort of everything
[19:03] <LaserJock> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/3148 has some links to test cases
[19:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/3148 has some links to test cases
[19:03] <LaserJock> they're pretty generic
[19:04] <LaserJock> I just basically want to make sure people can 1) install standalone Edubuntu from Live session 2) Install standalone from text installer 3) Install LTSP from text installer
[19:04] <nubae> ok, i'll spend some time over the weekend taking a look, where should we post any feedback?
[19:04] <LaserJock> for actual bugs you can file them
[19:04] <nubae> yeah, but more general, non bugs
[19:04] <sbeattie> LaserJock: davmor2's testing this week found that (2) didn't happen; you got ubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-server
[19:04] <LaserJock> for general feedback (or if you don't want to fight with LP) send them to edubuntu-devel
[19:05] <nubae> ok cool
[19:05]  * highvoltage has to go
[19:05] <LaserJock> sbeattie: yeah, I saw that, I spent some time trying to figure out how those tasks are set
[19:05] <LaserJock> I need to talk to cjwatson maybe about it but I didn't want to bother him during Beta
[19:05] <highvoltage> thanks everyone, and goodbye from me!
[19:05] <LaserJock> #endmeeting
[19:05] <alkisg> Bye highvoltage, and thanks.
[19:05] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:05.
[19:05] <nubae> btw... is there any artwork still needed?
[19:06] <LaserJock> nubae: we can always use it, and there's plenty of room
[19:06] <nubae> Remember I did a whole bunch of artwork a while back... dunno if its appropriate
[19:06]  * nubae waves to highvoltage 
[19:06] <LaserJock> nubae: I can say it'll make it on the DVD this round (I have to figure out how to do artwork packaging) but if we have it we can get it on 10.04 which is an LTS
[19:07] <LaserJock> OK everybody. Good meeting!
[19:07] <LaserJock> Now let's go out there and rock the education world! ;-)
[19:07] <nubae> ok, cool, perhaps I can work on some icons for then that fits with that...
[19:07] <LaserJock> nubae: that's be way cool
[19:07] <LaserJock> nubae: icons are a bit of a problem in general
[19:07] <nubae> ok how so... lets take this to #edubuntu
[19:08] <alkisg> Goodbye all!
[19:44] <genii>  ~15 mins to Kubuntu mtg?
[19:44] <Quintasan> genii: yes
[19:45] <genii> Quintasan: OK, thanks
[19:52] <cjwatson> LaserJock: I already fixed the last of edubuntu-desktop-gnome
[19:52] <cjwatson> s/last/lack/
[19:52] <cjwatson> LaserJock: or think I did anyway
[20:00] <ScottK> o/
[20:00] <JontheEchidna> \o
[20:00] <Riddell> good evening friends
[20:00] <Riddell> how are we feeling tonight?
[20:00] <nixternal> hola
[20:01] <yuriy> hi all
[20:01] <Nightrose> o/
[20:01] <Lure> hello all
[20:01] <Riddell> anyone here for membership ce soir?
[20:02]  * Lure may need to reapply when I contribute some more ;-)
[20:02] <rgreening> afternoon :)
[20:02] <Quintasan> \o
[20:02] <Riddell> how are  we doing  for council members?
[20:02]  * sistpoty waves
[20:02]  * ulysses__ later will apply for membership
[20:02] <Riddell> apachelogger?
[20:02] <apachelogger> ahoy
[20:02]  * JontheEchidna tells apachelogger to stop looking at pycode
[20:02] <Riddell> rgreening? Nightrose?
[20:02] <apachelogger> yeah, just drowned in kate windows :D
[20:03] <Nightrose> hehe :)
[20:03]  * rgreening waves
[20:03] <Nightrose> *here
[20:03] <Riddell> agenda is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[20:03] <Riddell> looks long but hopefully won't be so bad
[20:03] <Riddell> rgreening: has the first item
[20:03] <Riddell> "Discuss top bugs to quash"
[20:03] <rgreening> Yeah, so I was wondering how we are all doing on bugs?
[20:03] <Riddell> my list on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus says..
[20:03] <Riddell> Some kcontrol modules missing translations
[20:03] <Riddell> KDM/ksmserver hangs on logout
[20:03] <Riddell> KPacakgeKit broken probably due to policykit crash
[20:03] <Riddell> "tech-preview" warning to be added to kubuntu netbook ubiquity
[20:03] <Riddell> microblog applet broken
[20:03] <Riddell> hardy upgrade needs to be enabled in DistUpgrade tool
[20:04] <Riddell> although I'm not organised  enough to have looked up the bug  numbers
[20:04] <Lure> Riddell: kdm does not start for me - "sudo kdm stop" is workaround - is this known
[20:04] <sistpoty> oh crap, looks like I've scheduled a motu-meeting at the same time as the kubuntu meeting... so anyone here for the motu-meeting, let's defer it
[20:04] <rgreening> anyone else have bugs to add as top priorities?
[20:04]  * Lure has other problems with upstart though
[20:05] <JontheEchidna> I know why KPackageKit lacks translation. The .mo in language-pack-* is camelcased while kpackagekit expects all lower case
[20:05] <apachelogger> -.-
[20:05] <james_w> what's the number for the kpackagekit/polkit bug?
[20:05] <Riddell> Lure: someone else was complaining it didn't work  earlier today, there's a lot of crap in the init script we can throw away
[20:05] <JontheEchidna> james_w: I'll get them
[20:05] <Lure> Riddell: ok, will look for bug, otherwise report it
[20:06] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: that makes sense
[20:06] <JontheEchidna> the thing that doesn't make sense is why it is broken in the first place :(
[20:06] <nixternal> Riddell: ya, re: KDM, I will make sure a new kdm.conf gets in the 4.3.2 builds, so if anyone is building kdebase-workspace let me know so I can get you the new upstart script
[20:06] <Riddell> Lure: better if  you could remove parts of /etc/inti/kdm.conf until it  works
[20:06] <JontheEchidna> bug 436748 for polkit
[20:06] <Riddell> nixternal: what are  you changing?
[20:06] <Lure> Riddell: will look into this
[20:06] <JontheEchidna> most probably leading to bug 438279
[20:07] <Riddell> any other critical beasties?
[20:08] <JontheEchidna> those system-config-printer-kde ones I mentioned earlier
[20:08] <Riddell> yep got those
[20:08] <JontheEchidna> cool
[20:08] <nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/files/kdm.conf  <- Riddell
[20:08] <nixternal> getting rid of the stuff that isn't necessary right now
[20:08] <james_w> JontheEchidna: you didn't answer my question on the packagekit bug
[20:09] <Riddell> nixternal: you can put that into bzr then
[20:09] <james_w> JontheEchidna: I don't think that polkit bug is the cause of the packagekit one
[20:09] <nixternal> removing all of that does a couple of things:  1) it doesn't break anything that isn't already broken, and 2) is makes starting up faster
[20:09]  * JontheEchidna looks
[20:09] <bigbrovar> .
[20:09] <ScottK> Riddell: On the "don't give it to grandma" warning, shtylman gave me a pointer, so I think I can take care of that after I get the text coordinated with upstream.
[20:10] <Riddell> ScottK: yeah he said it was just a  text file that has to appear somewhere
[20:10] <ScottK> Riddell: Yep.
[20:10] <rgreening> cool
[20:10] <rgreening> I assume it needs localization?
[20:10] <ScottK> No, too late for that.
[20:10] <Riddell> that's an issue
[20:10] <rgreening> oh well...
[20:11] <ScottK> I don't see it as an issue as we don't actually have translators anyway
[20:11] <rgreening> it is a "preview" :)
[20:11] <Riddell> I'll get those bugs milestoned if they're not  alrady
[20:11] <Riddell> and assign them to nixternal
[20:11] <nixternal> Riddell: kdm.conf in bzr now...whoever does the kdebase-workspace build, remember to add it to changelog
[20:11] <nixternal> heh
[20:12] <Riddell> you  know you want them :)
[20:12] <Riddell> next topic?
[20:12] <nixternal> what bugs am I getting?
[20:12] <rgreening> Dragon vs Kaffiene
[20:12] <Riddell> epic battle No 1
[20:12] <Riddell> Kaffeine works great for me
[20:12] <Nightrose> *lol*
[20:12] <nixternal> ditto
[20:12] <rgreening> So, I think we are prob in agreement to go with Dragon?
[20:12] <Riddell> how bad is the startup bug?
[20:12] <ScottK> I think that we ought to be sure before we change.
[20:13] <nixternal> though I don't use it as insanely as others might though
[20:13] <ScottK> i.e. tie goes to what we currently have
[20:13] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: it received 3 duplicate reports at launchpad
[20:13] <rgreening> I've experience random crashes with kaff
[20:13]  * Quintasan install mplayer-nogui +smplayer
[20:13] <JontheEchidna> which for an application crash is somewhat common, compared to the volume we get for other crashes
[20:14] <nixternal> yikes, I just got twitter spammed big time
[20:14] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: can we ask them if the new ver
[20:14] <rgreening> any other people have comments or experience with kaffiene?
[20:14] <nixternal> k, I will be afk for 5 minutes..dogs gotta go outside..brb
[20:14] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: can we ask them if the new version  I  just uploaded fixes it?
[20:14]  * ScottK didn't use it much, but hasn't had problems.
[20:14]  * apachelogger either
[20:14] <rgreening> Im thinking perception wise, we may want to default back to dragon...
[20:15] <rgreening> kaffiene is still there for those to test/install...
[20:15] <rgreening> We are getting some flack for the "alpha-ness" of our apps... going with dragon could be a win in that area at least
[20:16] <rgreening> any thoughts regarding that?
[20:17] <ScottK> Riddell: I need to run out for ~30 minutes.  Would you please move the Quassel/Konvi battle later in the meeting?
[20:17]  * apachelogger agrees completely
[20:17] <apachelogger> better save than sorry
[20:17] <apachelogger> IMHO
[20:17] <Riddell> ScottK: ok
[20:17]  * ScottK too
[20:17] <apachelogger> we can ask for feedback on kaffeine
[20:17] <Riddell> move kaffeine to DVD then?
[20:17] <rgreening> Riddell: I believe thats the best
[20:17] <apachelogger> aye
[20:18] <rgreening> and Dragon as default
[20:18] <rgreening> on both
[20:18] <rgreening> at least we save face somewhat :)
[20:18] <Riddell> nixternal: do you know how late changes like this affect docs, including jjesse (is he doing the book still?)
[20:19] <nixternal> Riddell: we can't change docs anymore...the freeze is in effect
[20:19] <Quintasan> :|
[20:19] <Nightrose> ...
[20:19] <JontheEchidna> bah
[20:19] <Riddell> .. waits for netsplit to fix itself..
[20:19] <JontheEchidna> ...and let's give it up for netsplits
[20:20] <Riddell> welcome back netsplitters
[20:20] <JontheEchidna> ooh... docs still list kaffeine as being default, don't they
[20:20] <rgreening> heh
[20:20] <Riddell> nixternal: got an opinion on changing an app now from a docs view?
[20:21] <nixternal> changing kaffeine with dragon right?
[20:21] <JontheEchidna> I guess that's the downside of deciding things around beta time v.v
[20:21] <Riddell> nixternal: yes
[20:21] <nixternal> rock on, it is good
[20:21] <nixternal> we have Dragon in the docs already
[20:21] <rgreening> haha
[20:21] <JontheEchidna> nice
[20:21] <rgreening> bonus
[20:22] <rgreening> :)
[20:22] <Riddell> ok we'll do that, we should contact kaffeine upstream about this bug though
[20:22] <Nightrose> next battle?
[20:22] <Riddell> epic battle No 3, K3b 3 vs k3b 4
[20:22] <nixternal> dragon was default in jaunty right? that's probably why it never got changed :)
[20:22] <JontheEchidna> nixternal: yea
[20:22] <nixternal> groovy
[20:22] <JontheEchidna> k3b'll probably be less epic
[20:22] <bigbrovar> nods
[20:22] <nixternal> I use k3b4 and don't have probs, then again I am not doing anything crazy once again
[20:22] <Riddell> my impression is that k3b 3 is bitrotting
[20:23] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: did you want to introduce k3b or shall I?
[20:23] <nixternal> I know the little horn at the end gets cut off, but other than that, nothing
[20:23] <Riddell> so it's not going  to be any better
[20:23] <Riddell> nixternal: isn't that deliberate?  it was a bloody stupid sound
[20:23] <nixternal> haha, I liked it :)
[20:23] <JontheEchidna> mostly it seems ok, but I think we should still be wary about it's alpha status
[20:23] <Riddell> both suse and mandriva are using k3b 4
[20:23] <Quintasan> I had no problems with k3b kde4. Won't putting kde3 be a place eater?
[20:24] <Riddell> Quintasan: yes it will
[20:24] <nixternal> it seems from all of the comments, nobody is bashing k3b
[20:24] <JontheEchidna> ok, so k3b kde4 is probably the best anybody can do for now
[20:24] <nixternal> seems it is translations, network mangler...
[20:24] <rgreening> sry.. back
[20:24]  * apachelogger notes that k3b kde4 is about 30% translated to german
[20:24] <Riddell> it's just yet  another bit of kde 4 porting pain, let's not do kde 5 any time soon
[20:24]  * apachelogger also notes that since translations are on the bash, k3b kde4 is not helping
[20:24] <nixternal> apachelogger: like that matters, it will get broken in LP anyways :p
[20:24] <rgreening> I have tested k3b extensively. all seems fine to me.
[20:25] <Quintasan> nixternal: lol
[20:25] <apachelogger> nixternal: wells, only by 20%, so it still would be more than twice as translated :P
[20:25] <nixternal> hehe
[20:25] <rgreening> so, we stick with K3B kde4
[20:26] <JontheEchidna> the only thing I'm worried about is the dead upstream and translations
[20:26] <JontheEchidna> *things *are
[20:26] <Riddell> mandriva is upstream and it just gets done as they have  resources
[20:27] <rgreening> well, I fixed one issue with normalize. Im sure we could handle more issues as they come up
[20:27] <rgreening> I dont mind being the goto for k3b :0
[20:27] <Riddell> it was also pointed out that most of the issues come from wodin not the frontend that is k3b
[20:27] <JontheEchidna> this is true. I hate wodim with a vengance
[20:27] <JontheEchidna> wodim probably owes me a dollar in blank CDs
[20:28] <Riddell> ok "kopete-facebook inclusion"
[20:28] <Riddell> I think this has to go
[20:28] <Quintasan> Riddell: we get to translate k3b via LP or I need to contact upstream?
[20:28] <apachelogger> buggy as hell
[20:28] <Nightrose> :(
[20:28] <JontheEchidna> yeah, kopete-facebook is nice but is too unstable
[20:28] <Nightrose> ohnoes
[20:28] <rgreening> did we deal with the IRC issue yet Riddell
[20:28] <apachelogger> crashes kopete at times
[20:28] <apachelogger> always at quitting
[20:28] <Riddell> which is a shame, but it doesn't work and the trunk  doesn't make things any better
[20:28] <JontheEchidna> it should go
[20:28]  * Nightrose sobs a little
[20:28] <Riddell> rgreening: ScottK asked for it later
[20:29] <rgreening> right
[20:29] <rgreening> my bad
[20:29] <Riddell> someone needs to start a "Facebook follow  up on  your promise for an XMPP interface" group on facebook
[20:29] <rgreening> Facebook plugin is nice, but crashy. agreed. move to DVD and not instal by default
[20:29] <Nightrose> Riddell: i'm sure there is one ;-)
[20:29] <Riddell> "kubuntu-dev team and archive reorg"
[20:30] <Riddell> I created a ~kubuntu-dev team and hopefully  tech board will approve it soon for the Kubuntu part of archive reorg
[20:30] <Riddell> so members can be approved to upload Kubuntu stuff
[20:30] <Lure> Riddell: will this cover universe/kde/qt stuff?
[20:30] <rgreening> cool. Does this cover all Qt/KDE?
[20:31] <nixternal> yes
[20:31] <JontheEchidna> what about qt/kde apps listed in other package categories (I think a few are in the sound section)
[20:31] <Riddell> I've actually no  idea how the list is  defined
[20:31] <Riddell> cjwatson?
[20:31] <maco> so the way it works is ~kubuntu-dev approves people for ~kubuntu-ninjas?
[20:31] <maco> because cjwatson setup the ACLs for ~kubuntu-ninjas
[20:31] <nixternal> hrmm
[20:31] <Riddell> err, that's not right
[20:31] <JontheEchidna> kubuntu-ninjas is basically just a private ppa
[20:31] <nixternal> not at all
[20:32] <maco> oh dear
[20:32] <nixternal> ACLs should be for ~kubuntu-dev
[20:32] <Riddell> ~kubuntu-ninjas is whoever wants to help out  with KDE packaging, ~kubuntu-dev is the uploaders
[20:32] <apachelogger> aye
[20:32] <Riddell> currently ~kubuntu-dev has the ~ubuntu-core-dev  people who are into KDE in it
[20:32] <Riddell> the question is how do we add people  to  ~kubuntu-dev
[20:33] <Riddell> and  ScottK's suggestion  is have existing ~kubuntu-dev members approve them
[20:33] <rgreening> draw straws?
[20:33] <rgreening> :)
[20:33] <nixternal> I would say have a core and non-core
[20:33] <nixternal> though...I don't think we need to (right now?)
[20:33] <nixternal> I say we create a team, or a group of members, who can be trusted to do developer applications
[20:33] <Riddell> nixternal: there's just one list, cjwatson will know how it's defined
[20:34] <rgreening> Riddell: I would agree that we should be able to have ~kubuntu-dev members approve
[20:34] <nixternal> a team of 3, with the KC with the final yay/nay?
[20:34] <nixternal> kind of like MC does for core-dev
[20:35] <Riddell> I don't think it needs another team, everyone in ~kubuntu-dev can decide
[20:35] <apachelogger> KC is not a developer council
[20:35] <nixternal> Riddell: ya, that works, with the kc being the final say so
[20:35] <Riddell> we  can  review that  if  it gets too big but that's not a  problem for the moment
[20:35] <Lure> Riddell: I would suggest formal request on kubuntu-devel mailing list + 2 ACK required from existing members
[20:35] <apachelogger> nixternal: technically the KC can consist of no developers at all?
[20:35] <rgreening> heh. we will need to write up the policies surrounding this.
[20:35] <apachelogger> so non-developers would decided who becomes a developer?
[20:35] <rgreening> as we develop them..
[20:35] <nixternal> also, should we move all of the core stuff over to ~kubuntu-dev instead of ~kubuntu-members?
[20:35] <ryanakca> nixternal: I'm not too familiar with the archive reorganization, but I'd say split core / non-core, take me for example, you can probably trust my packaging for a simple app that isn't used very much, but a big complicated app used my many people, you wouldn't want me touching it (and I wouldn't want to either ;) )
[20:36] <Riddell> actually ~developer-membership-board would have the final say so
[20:36] <Quintasan> +1 on what ryanakca said
[20:36]  * Lure is confused now - what will happen with existing motu/core-dev?
[20:36] <nixternal> apachelogger: no, ~kubuntu-dev members could recommend to the KC...I trust non-devs to trust those in ~kubuntu-dev
[20:36] <apachelogger> nixternal: that makes contribution more difficult
[20:37] <nixternal> Lure: it will vanish
[20:37] <ryanakca> For the logs - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveReorganisation
[20:37] <maco> ryanakca: you can of course choose not to touch packages you're uncomfortable with
[20:37] <apachelogger> nixternal: yeah, but considering the KC can consist of non-devs what would they base their decsision on?
[20:37] <nixternal> apachelogger: how so? MOTU and Core Dev don't make it more difficult
[20:37] <Lure> nixternal: understand, but I though migration will be done somehow
[20:37] <apachelogger> kubuntu-dev can decided on their own then as well :P
[20:37] <Riddell> nixternal: no reason not to keep the bzr open, we will review stuff before it's uploaded
[20:37] <nixternal> apachelogger: the approval or disapproval of the ~kubuntu-dev members
[20:37]  * rgreening agrees with maco and apachelogger
[20:37] <apachelogger> nixternal: because the devs would have to merge
[20:38] <ryanakca> maco: I can, but what's to prevent someone else from touching packages they aren't comfortable with? imho, having access to core packages is effectively like having root access on *everybody's* box, where as universe packages, you've been warned, they aren't supported, install at your own risk.
[20:38] <apachelogger> nixternal: I do not think that I will merge every change from Quintasan just because he might not yet be equiped with the access control for uploads
[20:38] <Lure> ryanakca: I agree with maco that for start we should just base it on trust that people will do only stuff that they feel confortable with
[20:38]  * ryanakca nods
[20:38] <apachelogger> nixternal: while I can turst that any member of kubuntu-dev is capable of reviewing a bzr log
[20:38] <nixternal> apachelogger: for something like that, then we can Quintasan ACL approval per app
[20:39] <nixternal> we don't have to give access to every app
[20:39] <apachelogger> nixternal: that does not affect the branch, does it?
[20:39] <Quintasan> ACL?
[20:39] <nixternal> no
[20:39] <apachelogger> well
[20:39] <apachelogger> that is my point :P
[20:39] <apachelogger> branches should stay in kubuntu-members
[20:39] <maco> ryanakca: the point of the archive reorg is to change from core/non-core to having access to only packages you're involved wtih. though whether kubuntu should be split up into more pieces like parts of ubuntu desktop are is another question
[20:39] <nixternal> Quintasan: access control list
[20:39] <ryanakca> ah, ok
[20:39] <apachelogger> at least until the whole ubuntu branch stuff takes off and we upload ACL can match push ACL
[20:40] <apachelogger> -we
[20:40] <nixternal> I think in the mean time we can put this off for further discussion, as I don't think it hampers the release of 9.10 at all
[20:40] <rgreening> kubuntu is small enough that more than one group is too much...
[20:40] <rgreening> KISS is a great principle :)
[20:40] <maco> rgreening: thats what i thought
[20:40] <ryanakca> :)
[20:40] <JontheEchidna> +1 defer to later
[20:40] <rgreening> what JontheEchidna said +1
[20:40] <rgreening> :)
[20:41]  * ryanakca nods, for later here too :)
[20:41] <nixternal> rgreening: KISS doesn't scale well :p
[20:41] <rgreening> no scale here to worry about...
[20:41] <Nightrose> we don't really have scaling problems right now ;-)
[20:41] <rgreening> xactly
[20:41] <rgreening> :)
[20:41] <nixternal> forget about the future then!
[20:41] <rgreening> lol
[20:42] <nixternal> that's why twitter has issues, they only thought a few people would use, not millions
[20:42] <rgreening> next topic? Package updates
[20:42]  * Nightrose misses amarok in the list ;-()
[20:42] <rgreening> K3b fix for normalize - done
[20:42] <JontheEchidna> arora, kdepim, kdebluetooth have been uploaded
[20:42] <nixternal> 4.3.2?
[20:42] <rgreening> a new arora fix is coming 0.10.1 tonight/tomorrow....
[20:42] <JontheEchidna> 4.3.2 is being worked on by our crack team of ninjas
[20:43] <nixternal> why an upload of kdepim right now then?
[20:43] <Riddell> changes from agateau
[20:43] <JontheEchidna> because kontact crashes on startup if you have a search folder
[20:43] <rgreening> there's a serious SSL authentication issue - it fails on some sites. icefox says he has it fixed and will release a poiunt rel tonight
[20:43] <Lure> we are two releases behind with kipi-plugins and new digikam beta planned for this week
[20:44] <Lure> problem is that kipi-plugins in debian depends on debhelper 7.3.16 - anyboady know why it is needed
[20:44]  * Lure does not follow all debhelper changes
[20:44] <Riddell> I'd expect modax knows
[20:44] <JontheEchidna> I don't think we would have to merge, would we?
[20:44] <rgreening> Lure: try building with the ubuntu ver..
[20:45] <Lure> rgreening: will probably find some time over weekend to look into this
[20:45] <JontheEchidna> so it looks like we have updates under control
[20:45] <Riddell> Lure: will you be able to file  the FFe  requests?
[20:45] <Lure> Riddell: will do, but will need core-dev support with them
[20:46] <Riddell> Lure: ping me with that
[20:46] <rgreening> Lure: excellent
[20:46] <Lure> Riddell: for digikam will ask for all versions up-to release candidate
[20:46] <Riddell> (of course I may reject it, no promises!)
[20:46] <rgreening> hah
[20:46] <Lure> Riddell: I know that you can be hard!
[20:46] <Lure> ;-)
[20:46]  * rgreening bows to our leader
[20:46] <Riddell> yuriy has an item
[20:47] <rgreening> Riddell: before we move to that...
[20:47] <rgreening> Qt/KDE
[20:47] <rgreening> Did you find out if qt 4.5.3 is ok for KDE 4.3.x
[20:47] <Riddell> rgreening: what about them?
[20:47] <rgreening> see above
[20:47] <rgreening> :)
[20:47] <Riddell> rgreening: I asked on  release-team, no replies yet.  there's no reason why it shouldn't be
[20:48] <rgreening> ok. Im good then
[20:48] <yuriy> ok, what do we want to do with crash handling after release?
[20:48] <Riddell> I vote for Dr Konqi
[20:48] <JontheEchidna> please, let's use dr. konqi
[20:48]  * Nightrose too
[20:48] <Riddell> we should have purged our
[20:48] <Lure> +1
[20:48] <nixternal> oh man
[20:48] <apachelogger> the doctor
[20:49] <JontheEchidna> ...is in
[20:49] <Riddell> we should have purged our crashes by then (in theory) so what's  left is upstreams
[20:49] <Riddell> and silently crashing is for weird desktops
[20:49] <nixternal> "in theory" :)
[20:49] <rgreening> the Dr. :)
[20:49] <yuriy> i'm not big on silently crashing either
[20:49] <Riddell> yuriy: at UDS  we did discuss the  option  of  having  apport on for some apps after release
[20:49] <yuriy> that would be possible, but would take some work
[20:49] <Nightrose> an dr konqui is actually decent and useful for upstream \o/
[20:49] <Riddell> which would make sense for some  of  our own ones
[20:50] <rgreening> like k3b
[20:50] <yuriy> can anybody think of specific things we would want that for?
[20:50] <rgreening> ha
[20:50] <rgreening> usb-creator-kde
[20:50] <JontheEchidna> using dr konqi just makes all upstream crashes languish here until I find the time to upstream them
[20:50] <Riddell> yuriy: update-notifier-kde,  ubiquity, usb-creator-kde, anything which uses pykde really  :)
[20:50] <JontheEchidna> apport
[20:50] <JontheEchidna> not dr konqi
[20:50] <JontheEchidna> using apport just makes all upstream crashes languish here until I find the time to upstream them
[20:51]  * ScottK is back
[20:51] <JontheEchidna> \o
[20:51] <yuriy> Riddell: none of those would have any crash handler?
[20:51] <Riddell> yuriy: no, just python backtraces  on the command line if you're lucky
[20:52] <yuriy> yeah i think hooks for those would be nice
[20:52] <JontheEchidna> python support for dr. konqi'd be sweet
[20:52] <Riddell> yuriy: can you ask pitti how easy it would be  to have apport kept on for only those?
[20:52] <yuriy> nixternal: have you looked at how to do that at all?
[20:52] <yuriy> Riddell: I will
[20:52] <nixternal> hooks are fairly easy and straight forward
[20:52] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: file a bug ;)
[20:53] <Riddell> next item?
[20:53] <Riddell> Quintasan has an item about ibus, scary
[20:53] <Quintasan> hah, not really
[20:54] <Quintasan> I have noticed japanse/chinese input was broken since KDE 4
[20:54] <rgreening> lol
[20:54] <JontheEchidna> too bad the kimpanel widget doesn't support ibus :(
[20:54] <Quintasan> Now I have tested ibus along with anthy and it works
[20:55] <Riddell> well I believe Qt has an ibus input method so if you have ibus working it should be ok
[20:55] <Riddell> but there's no working KDE frontend for it
[20:55] <Riddell> kimpanel doesn't support the current ibus version and upstream never got back to me so has likely fallen  off the internet
[20:55] <JontheEchidna> :(
[20:55] <Quintasan> I got it to work very easily
[20:56] <Riddell> Quintasan: which?
[20:56] <ScottK> On the list of stuff that needs updating, there's a new xz-utils release that fixes a file corruption bug.
[20:56] <ScottK> (sorry, wasn't here for that part)
[20:56] <Quintasan> Riddell: install ibus-anthy and run ibus-setup and add your desired input method
[20:56] <Riddell> Quintasan: but with the gnome frontend presumably?
[20:56] <Quintasan> the problem is all of KDE apps have XIM as default IM selected
[20:57] <Riddell> Quintasan: selected where?
[20:57] <Quintasan> Riddell: right click on input box and Select Input Method
[20:57] <Riddell> hmm, where did that come from
[20:58] <Riddell> so does something need changed in Qt to use ibus?
[20:58] <apachelogger> we need to set Qt to use ibus by default
[20:58] <Quintasan> ibus-setup looks like KDE app with out k-d-s so users wont even notice :P
[20:58] <apachelogger> because I think that IM stuff is coming from Qt, isnt it?
[20:59] <Riddell> I wonder where  that is set
[20:59] <rgreening> almost out of time...
[20:59] <Riddell> Quintasan: fancy seeing if you can find out where that is set?
[20:59] <rgreening> though I dont think anything else is scheduled after us
[20:59] <JontheEchidna> don't we have another hour?
[21:00] <rgreening> nm
[21:00] <Quintasan> Riddell: I will look into it, I have tried export QT_IM_MODULE=ibus but it didn't help
[21:00] <rgreening> I was thinking we had 1 hr... not 2 haha
[21:00] <rgreening> my bad
[21:00] <Riddell> Quintasan: I'll ask some Qt people too,  or maybe ArneGoetje as an idea
[21:00]  * rgreening is used to 1 hr meetings
[21:00] <JontheEchidna> this is a supermeeting
[21:00] <Quintasan> also I have a question, shouldn't mplayerthumbs depend on mplayer OR mplayer-nogui?
[21:01] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: probably
[21:01] <Quintasan> AFAIK it works for KDE apps and mplayer package pulls gnome frontend
[21:01] <Riddell> quite probably, debdiffs always good
[21:01] <JontheEchidna> I'll fix that when I update it for KDE 4.3.2
[21:01] <Riddell> sorted
[21:01] <Riddell> epic battle No 3 time?
[21:02] <JontheEchidna> IRC battle time
[21:02] <Riddell> we have  two good  candidates I think
[21:02] <Riddell> so whatever the  choice the users  should  be winners
[21:02] <Riddell> myself I use  irssi so  I don't have too  much  of  an  opinion
[21:03] <rgreening> Is konversation still alpha or beta or rc?
[21:03] <Riddell> but Konversation  has the most  mindshare
[21:03] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: final release next week
[21:03] <rgreening> cool
[21:03] <Riddell> rgreening: it's being released in line with our schedule
[21:03] <apachelogger> poor users always get irc forced onto them :(
[21:03] <Quintasan> I like Quassel for client-server build but it lacks scripting :/
[21:03] <rgreening> I've gotten quite used to quassel haha
[21:03] <Riddell> Quintasan: client-server  isn't  what's on the CD so that's not a factor
[21:03] <rgreening> to me it only matters if it's stable and lacking bugs
[21:04] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/QuasselvsKonvi shows more  red for  Quassel
[21:04] <rgreening> quassel has no bugs affecting me ... I cant speak to konversation
[21:04] <apachelogger> well
[21:04] <apachelogger> the page is biased
[21:04]  * Lure likes nick colors in konversation, but misses history from quassel ;-)
[21:04] <apachelogger> big time
[21:04] <Nightrose> Riddell: last i checked that list it wasn't too accurate
[21:04] <Nightrose> yea
[21:04]  * rgreening looks
[21:04] <ScottK> Riddell: Keep in mind that was written by someone who wanted Konversation.
[21:04] <JontheEchidna> :3
[21:05] <ScottK> The only conclusion you can draw from that page is that Quassel is not Koversation.
[21:05] <ScottK> Quassel has really matured in this cycle and I would like to keep it.
[21:05] <Quintasan> I prefer scripting so I'd like to have Konverastion
[21:05] <JontheEchidna> Quassel lacks accessible help documentation as well as bi-directional text support
[21:06] <apachelogger> so
[21:06] <apachelogger> is the documentation up-to-date in konvi
[21:06] <apachelogger> and is it translated
[21:06] <JontheEchidna> yes
[21:06] <apachelogger> if not then its all the same really
[21:06] <rgreening> Im on the fence. I loved konvi before quassel and now I love quassel
[21:06] <ScottK> Quassel also lacks the 'feature' of using language packs for translations, so it's translations work.
[21:07] <apachelogger> ehm
[21:07] <JontheEchidna> Documentation has been kept up to date upstream, and has official KDE translation support
[21:07] <apachelogger> that is a feature for quassel really
[21:07] <ScottK> Right, KDE translation support means we lose out
[21:07] <JontheEchidna> At least in Spanish, Quassel's translations are somewhat...lacking
[21:07] <rgreening> anyone else on the fence or have a strong reason one way or the other?
[21:08]  * apachelogger thinks the user will not care either way :P
[21:08] <Nightrose> i like quassel and have not tried the kde 4 version of konversation so...
[21:08] <rgreening> nixternal: what do our docs say? quassel or konversation ?
[21:08] <ScottK> I like the way notificatons are integrated into Quasell.  I think it's way better than just the icon blinking at me.
[21:08] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: the blinkign tray is not on by default, and KNotifications can easily be implemented in k-d-s
[21:08] <apachelogger> agreed
[21:08]  * ScottK did try Konversation KDE4 for a bit, and it felt a bit stale.
[21:08] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Yeah, but even if it's on, it's not as fancy as what Quassel has.
[21:09] <nixternal> quassel
[21:09] <JontheEchidna> spanish isn't even listed as an available translation in quassel :(
[21:09] <apachelogger> general note: apparently quassel is all in all occupying less space than konvi
[21:09] <ScottK> If you've been highlighted multiple times, now you can keep clicking on the tray icon and it'll cycle through the channels until you hit the one you want
[21:09] <rgreening> I think the majority of people using IRC will choose the client they like anyway. Our job is to provide something that works well for the majority and looks great doing it.
[21:09] <JontheEchidna> quassel occupies less space because it lacks docs
[21:09] <apachelogger> for consideration of CD real estate that is
[21:09] <rgreening> +1 for quassel (never thoufght Id say that)
[21:10] <JontheEchidna> chosing quassel is a negative for documentation and translation
[21:10] <ScottK> It is a positive for consistency.
[21:10] <apachelogger> we chose k3b kde 4
[21:10] <apachelogger> that is as negative for translations :P
[21:10] <ScottK> I disagree about translation, BTW.
[21:10]  * apachelogger notes that one should not start to argue about translations with apachelogger
[21:11]  * ScottK thinks he is on apachelogger's side on this one
[21:11]  * ScottK hopes so
[21:11] <Nightrose> vote? (everyone seems to have given their arguments)
[21:11] <apachelogger> TBH I dont think that the user will care
[21:11] <JontheEchidna> why is not having spanish a good thing for quassel?
[21:12] <ScottK> The translations Quassel has are at least presented reliably.
[21:12] <apachelogger> either way Kubuntu will again be partially untranslated
[21:12] <JontheEchidna> it seems that chosing KDE's official IRC client would be a no-brainer for a KDE distribution
[21:12] <apachelogger> and either way they will get a working IRC client
[21:12] <JontheEchidna> rather than choosing one with tacked-on KDE integration and sub-par translations and documentation
[21:12] <apachelogger> either way they will, as always, largely not read documentation
[21:13] <apachelogger> either way they will install their preferred client anyway
[21:13] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Konversation is not KDE's official IRC client
[21:13] <apachelogger> considering they are using IRC enough to have a preferred client
[21:13]  * Nightrose doesn't think quassel's kde integration is tacked on
[21:13] <Nightrose> it is rather good here
[21:14]  * apachelogger does not think that any sensible argument can be made for either of those apps for karmic :S
[21:14] <Riddell> I can't think of a way to decide other than a council vote
[21:14] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: BTW, Sput just told me he'd love to add any translations that people provide.
[21:14]  * ScottK neither
[21:14] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: that's fine. But I don't have any. Konversatoin does though
[21:14]  * rgreening thinks he can convince wife to xlate quassel for pt and es
[21:14] <rgreening> :)
[21:14] <Riddell> I'm +1 for konversation due to notable non-KDE mindshare
[21:15] <ScottK> Excellent.
[21:15] <JontheEchidna> Quassel lacks much of the UI consistency that KDE apps have, mainly in the categories of menubar layout and system tray context menus
[21:15] <ScottK> Who else is around on the council?
[21:15]  * Lure thinks if there is not many good arguments to change, we should keep the same program as in previous release
[21:15] <Riddell> JontheEchidna, rgreening, Nightrose, apachelogger
[21:15] <apachelogger> hm
[21:15]  * Lure hates often changes to default programs
[21:15] <JontheEchidna> +1 Konversation
[21:15] <rgreening> +1 for quassel ...
[21:15] <apachelogger> I must agree with Lure
[21:15] <apachelogger> +1 quassel
[21:15] <rgreening> 2-2
[21:15] <Riddell> Nightrose: pressure
[21:15] <JontheEchidna> we only changed to quassel because konversation wasn't ready yet
[21:16]  * Nightrose is +1 for quassel on grounds of translation and latest improvements
[21:16] <ScottK> BTW, the layout of Quassel's systray context menu is identical to the KNM one
[21:16] <ScottK> So if Quassel isn't KDE like, neither is that
[21:16] <Riddell> well, it's a decision
[21:16] <Nightrose> and having it in jaunty
[21:16] <Lure> JontheEchidna: agreed, but changing back should also have good reasoning
[21:17] <JontheEchidna> Lure: Konversation has better translation and documentatoin support
[21:17] <JontheEchidna> officially backed by KDE
[21:17] <rgreening> that battle went the full 3 rounds in a title fight.
[21:17]  * Nightrose is relieved - i thought we'd end up cuddling all night
[21:18] <JontheEchidna> I don't but the argument that we should just give up on konversation jsut because we'll have partially translated stuff elsewhere in kubuntu :/
[21:18] <Nightrose> ;-)
[21:18] <nixternal> switching to konvi breaks all kinds of freezes fyi
[21:18]  * Quintasan can adapt to almost every IRC client so he doesn't care very much bout this
[21:18] <Riddell> any other business?
[21:18] <nixternal> Feature Freeze, User Interface Freeze, and in a way Documentation String Freeze
[21:19] <nixternal> yes
[21:19] <apachelogger> nixternal: we agreed to postpone the decision, so nvm
[21:19] <JontheEchidna> then why did we say we'd decide at beta time in the first place?
[21:19] <nixternal> I will be gone from Oct. 15 until the 15th of November
[21:19]  * apachelogger will create a nixternal bot for that time frame
[21:19] <nixternal> cycling my butt off, so I will miss the release of Karmic but will be back to kick off Lucid
[21:19] <Riddell> we'll  need to  delay the release!
[21:19] <nixternal> apachelogger: a bot that does nothing, is that useful?
[21:20] <apachelogger> does nothing and throw random word combinations at random times
[21:20] <apachelogger> just like the real one :D
[21:20] <Lure> Riddell: that might help in getting digikam 1.0/final in ;-)
[21:20] <nixternal> I will be back Nov. 12
[21:20] <nixternal> though I am sure I will be useless for a few days afterwards...almost 30 days of cycling straight
[21:21]  * Quintasan wonders if he got sponsorship
[21:21]  * apachelogger notes that no one proposed a release delay when he went to pursue geriatric care :P
[21:21] <Riddell> we skipped over the ~kubuntu-dev decision, I'd like to suggest ~kubuntu-dev can approve new uploaders for itself in some suitably open manor (posting to  kubuntu-devel probably)
[21:21] <ScottK> +1
[21:21] <apachelogger> +1
[21:21] <Nightrose> sounds good
[21:21] <ScottK> I do think the council needs to vote on this
[21:21]  * apachelogger either
[21:22] <Riddell> it's only for kubuntu packages to main as far as I know, universe is still through MC
[21:22] <nixternal> shouldn't that be a KC vote?
[21:22] <nixternal> I support whatever the KC decides (usually) :)
[21:22] <rgreening> +1
[21:22] <Lure> Riddell: I think requests should be done on mailing list and some minimal time for discussion (one week)
[21:22] <Riddell> Lure: makes sense
[21:22] <Lure> and agree that KC should approve the process first
[21:22] <apachelogger> we are doing right now :P
[21:23] <ScottK> nixternal: Can you write us up something that looks a lot like the MOTU process?
[21:23] <rgreening> 3 +'s
[21:23] <ScottK> (cjwatson said that would be easy to get approved by the TB/BMD)
[21:23] <ScottK> BMD/DMB
[21:24] <nixternal> yes
[21:24] <JontheEchidna> +1
[21:24]  * Lure needs to learn these new acronyms ;-)
[21:24] <ScottK> Developer Membership Board
[21:24] <nixternal> I need to run for a bit...I will be back in a bit...if you plan stuff for me, highlight me and let me know so I can add it to my todo list..and don't be vague where you have me scheduled to fix a bazillion bugs either :)
[21:24] <Lure> ScottK: thanks
[21:24] <ScottK> Currently it's coincident with the Tech Board membership, but that may change
[21:24] <nixternal> bbiab
[21:25] <ScottK> nixternal: Fix a bazillion -1
[21:25] <Riddell> any other any other business?
[21:25] <rgreening> not here
[21:26] <Riddell> then enjoy your weekend
[21:26] <Nightrose> not here either
[21:26]  * rgreening notes that I am hungry though
[21:26] <Nightrose> o/
[21:26] <Quintasan> \o
[21:26]  * ScottK notes rgreening hungry is not news
[21:26]  * apachelogger demands shorter meetings 
[21:26] <rgreening> lol
[21:26] <Riddell> try not to spend it all infront of a laptop
[21:26]  * rgreening notes ScottKneeds ot bring my coat to UDS
[21:27] <ScottK> That's true
[21:27] <apachelogger> out of fun you might want to write a spec for that :)
[21:28] <JontheEchidna> then assign it to nixternal!
[21:28] <JontheEchidna> since he loves getting specs assigned to him
[21:28] <apachelogger> so he told us
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> so I guess this meeting's over?