[00:00] not much has gone on in bzr since when he committed the jaunty stuff to 4.3 I don't think [00:00] nothing has [00:04] Riddell: i get a systemsettings crash every time i try to edit a printer ... dunno if it is just me; but could maybe be due to the new cups, so something needs some updating [00:07] gnight [00:08] good night [00:11] Riddell: TerminateServer=True in /etc/kde4/kdm/kdmrc allows you to log out [00:11] it is commented out currently [00:11] ! [00:12] it's been like that since 4.0 [00:12] a|wen: unlikely to be just you, do report the backtrace on bugs.kde.org [00:12] I think it might be working around the problem rather than solving it, but if it's the only way [00:13] mm, right [00:13] JontheEchidna: you havn't been able to log out since 4.0? [00:13] ancient nvidia drivers have had an x crash since 4.0 [00:13] it was working for a bit in karmic [00:13] and I have no clue how since I was on intel [00:14] but I do know that terminateserver has been set to false, and some people can log out sucessfully with it that way [00:15] JontheEchidna: what is the problem we're trying to solve? [00:15] making log out work for everybody. If this is the only way then I'd go with it even if it is a workaround [00:16] Riddell: okay, i'll try to get some backtraces and report them [00:16] probably terminating the server instead of reusing it makes things a bit slower, but it's better than not being able to log out [00:16] oh ... has worked fine for me all the time; graphic card dependant? [00:17] seems so [00:17] intel is affected, as well as ancient nvidia [00:17] * a|wen is on (in most other regards crappy) ati [00:18] for TerminateServer: [00:18] 1455 Comment: [00:18] 1456 Restart instead of resetting the local &X-Server; after session exit. [00:18] 1457 Use it if the server leaks memory etc. [00:19] as long as it doesn't gives problems for others, i think it is an okay solution ... kdm seems to restart pretty fast anyway, compared to a few releases ago [00:19] 1458 Description: [00:19] 1459 Whether &kdm; should restart the local &X-Server; after session exit instead [00:19] 1460 of resetting it. Use this if the &X-Server; leaks memory or crashes the system [00:19] 1461 on reset attempts. [00:19] looks like we need to use this if there are known X crashes... ha [00:20] like we could ever expect there not to be X crashes [00:20] doesn't x restart itself if it detects a crash; i thought it did [00:20] one must assume there is a silly reason for it not doing so during a logout [00:21] maybe ksmserver detects such things [00:22] maybe not, but if they coded a forced restart of X there must be some stupid reason [00:23] are you sure it actually crashes and not just stalls ;) [00:23] "legacy" ... i'm pretty sure the auto-restart on crash in the x-server is a somewhat new addition [00:23] the crash on logout for intel drivers is fixed, but for some reason X doesn't restart unless you force it to [00:24] heh, ARch is using our notifications :) [00:25] nixternal: the ayatana ones? [00:25] but ayatana is the spawn of the devil! [00:25] and arch is the holiest of binary distributions [00:25] :P [00:26] a|wen: yes [00:26] :P [00:26] http://chakra-project.org/code/index.php/view/packages:/core/kdebase-workspace/backport_fdo_notifications.patch [00:26] If Arch fanbois are hardcore... I don't want to encounter Chakra fans [00:26] i actually find them very nice! [00:26] even has agateau's name written all over it :) [00:33] eh, maybe it's not fair to generalize about distro fanboys [00:33] But if Arch users think they're elite... and then Chakra is an even eliter version of Arch.... [00:34] we only have a few more patches than opensuse does in kdebase-workspace..the rest we are like even...why do people say we ruin the experience by patching so much? [00:34] it does seem that the Chakra project is pretty sane though on their patches [00:34] nixternal: TerminateServer doesn't sound like a good thing for switching users though [00:35] they have cherry picked the patches between Kubuntu, Debian, and openSUSE from what I can see just in kdebase-workspace [00:35] ScottK: I have no clue, it allows me to log out [00:35] I don't think the KDM issue is related to kdebase-workspace patches at all [00:35] OK [00:35] I build a patcheless kdebase-workspace and I still couldn't log out [00:35] I have a theory. We (hope that we) have a lot of users. With more users there is a higher chance of things going wrong, leading to a higher chance of people complaining from distro X. Complainers find each other on the internet and congregate. The more complainers that are found, the more certain they are that Kubuntu is the source of their problems, even if it is an upstream issue [00:36] Sounds reasonable. [00:36] They try distro Y where by chance the issue does not occur, and hate distro X for life [00:36] Thanks to opensuse 10.1 there is a zero percent chance of me using opensuse ever again [00:36] well, I think we need to reaproach our patches for Lucid...it seems a bit crazy to have 43 patches just for kdebase-workspace [00:37] This is in line with your theory JontheEchidna. [00:37] nixternal: Agreed. [00:37] Less patches is definitely a good idea [00:37] If we could separate them out into debian, kubuntu and upstream cherrypick folders that would be awesome [00:37] well, I was thinking, just for fun, that I would package up kdecore stuff w/o patches and then benchmark to see [00:37] that way there we would at least have a base to compare against [00:37] That sort of thing has worked out great for the konversation package [00:41] we could use glxgears for a benchmark! :P [00:42] hmmm... Gentoo is still waiting for libindicate to lose its unnecessary gtk-build-time deps, after that we'll package it as well for people to try out :) [00:43] * Sput is sorta curious to figure out what agateau did to his Quassel [00:43] probably the same thing with kopete...I get these nudges or people adding me, and the popup goes away before I can do anything, and then I go to kopete and there is nothing there [00:44] I see at least 3 patches in kdebase-runtime that could be upstreamed [00:46] the 6 fdo notifications patches are merged upstream, except for the discard actions patch [00:51] And we don't enable that one by default. [00:52] Sput: seriously? gentoo is waiting for a build time dep change? they really have a funny idea about users [00:53] Riddell: dragging in half of gnome for a lib that doesn't depend on gnome is not acceptable [00:53] for developers! [00:53] Riddell: we're a source-based distro [00:53] so we can't just ship the binaries :) [00:54] so build-time deps actually matter for our users [00:54] don't all Gentoo users have quad core machines with 4 GB of RAM and 1TB hard drives? [00:54] (I joke) [00:54] yes, but that doesn't mean that all Gentoo users want to have half of gNOme installed :) [00:55] * Sput "fondly" remembers installing gNOme's nm-applet to configure networkmanager when knm wasn't ready yet, and having to install 83 packages for a tray applet [00:56] Oo [00:56] at least those were runtime deps :) [00:57] but build-time deps that are unnecessary (at least that's what agataeu told me, they're just required by the buildsys) won't pass through our QA [00:58] what are they using? GAutotools? [00:58] I have no idea, haven't looked at it myself [00:58] I would be very afraid if such a thing existed [00:58] prolly some unneeded autocrap checks [00:58] have we been updating bzr at all for the core packages? I just ran a bzr pull on all of the directories and there were no updates..I don't remember doing an update recently to pull in changes [00:59] yeah, bzr is still in use [00:59] which package? [00:59] I must of...heh, they are all udpated [00:59] weird [00:59] :) [01:00] let's just say, if Canonical wants to have their inidicator stuff tried more widespread, they need to work on deployment and build system :) [01:01] afaik agateau opened a bug to that respect, so here's hoping they fix it soonish [01:02] * nixternal goes out to eat [01:05] * JontheEchidna lets kdebase-runtime continue to build and goes off to play some video games [01:28] * Sput rebuilds his KDE as well [01:29] four days is an eternity in KDE world. === Guest77758 is now known as Pici [03:26] do we have a list of "MUST FIX NOW BUGS!"? [03:27] IIRC the KDM one is one of the biggest, but let me find the list. [03:29] nixternal: We got KDM plus OOo save dialog and then: [03:29] Some kcontrol modules missing translations [03:29] KDM/ksmserver hangs on logout [03:29] KPacakgeKit broken probably due to policykit crash [03:38] hrmm [03:39] the KDM one is tricky [03:41] since I am looking at the KDM stuff, I am going to go through the kdebase-workspace list [03:45] are we honoring bugs in LP that deal with our PPA? [03:46] * nixternal fix releases it anyways [04:10] If it's a real bug, sure [04:11] I don't even remember what it was anymore, but I know I wasn't having that problem :) [04:13] * ScottK just spent some time looking at what Google had to say about Kubuntu Netbook. It was all pretty good. [04:18] stupid ass freenode [04:24] That's pretty redundant. [04:41] hey all [04:41] just finished watchin SG-U on space :) [04:41] wasabi foolio [04:41] hehe [04:41] kmail just crashed.. grr. [04:42] hahaha [04:42] mutt is running like a champ [04:46] * nixternal is being an ass and asking questions in bug reports and setting them to incomplete (59 days!) [04:46] ;) [05:28] man... you rock nixternal. you should be an ass more often ;-) [05:29] by the way, the ksnapshot bug was fixed the 30th and made it in to 4.3.2 [05:29] see ya'll tomorrow [05:30] oh rock on [05:30] g'nite [05:31] i didn't figure it got backported in a day, KDE rocks! === m4v_ is now known as m4v === Quintasan1 is now known as Quintasan [07:34] hiho [07:57] wow, giant updates today in karmic :) [07:57] 230 MB [08:04] is there any way to disable Apport completely? [08:04] it comes up a lot, and I really don't need it [08:06] how come I need to run kbluetooth using sudo? [08:07] hey, KDM...if you have one user, the user list doesn't show, but if you add another user, then the list shows...I am guessing this is expect behavior but I am not positive...anyone know? [08:12] I've already set enabled=0 [08:13] in /etc/default/apport [08:13] doesn't really help [08:13] kdesudo comes up all the time for apport [08:14] heh, same for everybody...hopefully it will be fixed soon as it is a bit of a mess === mkjeldahl is now known as kjeldahl [09:17] kdebase-workspace cleaned up a bit...I am going to bed now [09:17] g'nite === kjeldahl is now known as kjeldahl_ [10:45] greetings, Can I have a question? so, yesterday was a meeting, nad some battle, for example kaffeine vs. dragon player [10:45] which video player was the winner? [11:18] ulysses__: dragon player for karmic ... though kaffeine will be on the dvd as well (iirc) [11:18] a|wen: thanks === sebasje is now known as sebas === ryanakca changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Beta! http://www.kubuntu.org/news/9.10-beta | Feature and UI Freeze in effect | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo | We need paperKuts! https://launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts [14:37] KarmicUpgrades misses: how to upgrade jaunty -> karmic without X (broken jaunty Xserver) :( [14:40] allee-k: do-release-upgrade should be the console way of doing upgrades [14:50] a|wen: thx [14:54] grbml. This laptop has black humor :( now after dozends of tries and reboots, now that I know how-to-without-X, the Xserver started after rebooting :( [15:05] hehe, never meddle with technology [15:17] Clearly we need to make using the beta release sound more scary. [15:18] Updates are wayyyy to slow [15:23] hehe [15:24] anyone working on getting amarok 2.2 final into karmic? [15:25] grrr, why does pulse keep getting installed. pulse is of the devil... [15:26] jussi01: aptitude why pulseaudio [15:26] !info amarok karmic [15:26] That's the one thing I use aptitude for [15:26] amarok (source: amarok): easy to use media player based on the KDE 4 technology platform. In component main, is optional. Version 2:2.1.90-0ubuntu1 (karmic), package size 7293 kB, installed size 19808 kB [15:28] ScottK: ahh. thanks. thats very cool. [15:28] but puse is still evil... [15:28] Back (hopefully) in a bit. Need to reboot the server the core is on for a new kernel. [15:28] pulse [15:28] ScottK: see you soon [15:36] ScottK: welcome back [15:37] Thanks [15:37] ScottK: you may want to put your nickserv pass as your server pass though, then you are identified before joining channels. [15:37] * ScottK keeps meaning to do that. [15:38] ScottK: btw, I got around the whole phonon mess.... by using the cmake flag to not build with phonon... not ideal, but works. [15:39] I'm not sure what was causing that as the quassel package builds fine without change [15:41] Riddelll: ping === toma is now known as toma_ [16:56] hi Quintasan [16:57] Riddelll: I have recived the email regarding dooble, however I dunno what yayc is and how I'm supposed to include it :/ === divaor2 is now known as divaor [17:14] hi! [17:15] distupgrade failed with "ERROR SystemError from cache.commit(): installArchives() failed" in /var/log/dist-upgrade/main.log [17:16] /var/log/dpkg.log doesn't show any recent actions, so i guess nothing has been installed yet [17:21] Quintasan: I think ignore it [17:21] as i close the message box that i should run dpkg --configure -a i get notified that the system upgrade was successfull but there were some errors. i guess that's plain sarcasm ;) [17:22] Quintasan: oh read now, well if he's changing to GPL that's more interesting [17:26] Quintasan: just say you don't know what it is and there's no package of it so that's not possible [17:26] no point going even more out of our way for him [18:01] hooray, FIXME in apt.cache.Cache *grr* [18:01] Anyone having trouble with enabling compositing today? [18:02] My mini 10v won't do desktop effects anymore [18:04] i'd love to try, but can't upgrade. [18:05] ;-) [18:08] btw, what happened to the code.launchpad.net inteface? looks awful... [18:12] freinhard: The usual thing when Launchpad developers decide to improve tings. [18:13] Restarting the system didn't help either ... [18:14] must be a serius problem. bugs that don't get fixed by rebooting are tough ones ;) [18:15] For the moment, I'm going to suspect nixternal's kdm logout work around. [18:20] In other news, it's really annoying to have a 6 hour battery life when you want to test the low power suspend warning. Anyone know a manual way to trigger that? [18:20] Bingo. [18:21] nixternal: If I use your kdm work around I lose compositing. [18:23] really? [18:23] I don't [18:23] This is on my mini 10v [18:23] ScottK: you should be able to trigger the suspend using qdbus [18:23] I just re-enabled the work around and am rebooting. [18:24] We'll see. [18:24] nixternal: Any suggestions on how (qdbus)? [18:24] Weird. [18:25] anyone round who's a bit deepter into python-apt? documentation isn't really verbose and i'd like to know how to get error messages from a PackageManager [18:26] ...PkgManager === toma_ is now known as toma [18:49] nixternal: I can't replicate the compositing loss anymore, so unless proven otherwise, I'll assume it was something else [19:03] hehe [19:04] I take it the amarok upload is quite broken? I haven't looked, but I see it is held back on my amd64 machines and not even available for x86 [19:05] stupid LP. I get one of those ajaxy popups saying "An error was encountered" with just an "OK" button...I know GNOME likes to dumb down their error messages, but that is going a bit to far :p [19:05] funky [19:05] JontheEchidna: getting unk to not eat mem is going to be tricky [19:06] no clue what I did yesterday but I am back to 31 MiB :S [19:06] oh, I borked my branch [19:07] nixternal: better some error popup than just nothing like python-apt's apt.cache.Cache.commit [19:09] anyway [19:09] garbage collection ought to be fun [19:13] nixternal: can a pyobject destroy itself? [19:16] when the app closes of course :p [19:16] need more context for this one :) [19:16] trying to remember if PyObject.Destroy() is still valid or not...been quite some time, probably the last time I read my Python In A Nutshell book :p [19:17] well === dendro-a` is now known as dendrobates [19:19] say I have an object foo, that triggers a knotification, foo exists until the user reacts to the knotification... so once the user triggered some action, foo should do whatever is necessary for that action and then destroy itself [19:20] self will only recreate the foo object if its name is not yet occupied (i.e. there is no notification waiting for user reaction) [19:21] in order to not have foo tell self that it is now ready to be destroyed, foo should just do it itself [19:23] are you using like 'self.foo = KNotification.event(blah blah lbah)' in a function? [19:23] aye [19:23] self.foo used anywhere else other than that function? [19:23] well, technically KNotification.event is done by foo [19:23] nixternal: no [19:24] I need to see the code..I think I just confused myself [19:24] lol [19:24] I am pretty sure I just confused myself :) I just woke up dude..I was up until 03:30 hacking on some bugs :) [19:26] nixternal: http://paste.ubuntu.com/284806/ [19:28] once self.rebooter.show() is completed, it is dead [19:28] that is unless of course there is something funky in def rebooter(): [19:28] how so? [19:29] dude [19:29] KNotification.event destroys itself upon closing (at least I thought) [19:29] you are talking about apacheloggercode :P [19:29] all about it is funky [19:29] lol [19:29] http://paste.ubuntu.com/284808/ [19:30] do ignore and hide should all call close or something, that leads to the object being destroyed [19:31] correct [19:32] hm [19:33] nixternal: I wonder what happens if they do it via Qt [19:33] ahh, dude you just helped me figure out my problem with configGroup...damn QVariant(True)...that has been killing me :) [19:33] * apachelogger tries deleteLater [19:33] nixternal: actually it is all pythons fault :P [19:33] IIRC in ruby you will not have to do type conversion [19:33] possibly rubyqt does this by default or something [19:33] right, and I wasn't doing type conversion [19:34] I see [19:34] I followed someone elses example which was evil to begin with [19:34] only follow apacheloggercode :P [19:34] the great thing about Python is you don't have to know wtf you are doing and you can still write a python app :p [19:34] and run into bugs [19:34] only if you are a GNOME dev :p [19:35] who would know that self.connect(self.kn, SIGNAL("action1Activated"), self.__do) does not work because the () for the signal are missing [19:35] I need the old kdm script for /etc/init.d/ [19:35] I want to make sure this KDM issue isn't related to upstart [19:35] Should be on Launchpad [19:35] * nixternal does bzr diff to find out [19:35] that too [19:36] bzr revert -r182 [19:36] woohoo [19:36] got it :) [19:38] self.deleteLater() [19:38] RuntimeError: underlying C/C++ object has been deleted [19:38] bah [19:39] * ScottK is really glad he got that fiber optic connection to the house so he can download Ubuntu updates at a blazing 100kB/s. [19:42] * ryanakca grins [19:42] Ohhh. Missed a zero. Now 10.4. [19:43] lol [19:43] dude, I have fiber too, and I am getting 45.5 right now [19:43] Yeah, I'm back up in the 40s now too. [19:44] Too bad it couldn't have been predicted that lots of people would download the betas so they could have planned ahead for more bandwidth. [19:45] * apachelogger does not know what to do :( [19:45] apachelogger: don't be sad, I don't know what to do everyday :) [19:46] I mean to destroy the object :P [19:46] * ScottK hands apachelogger a baseball bat. [19:47] I suppose the only solution is to emit a signal connected to the parent which triggers parent to unset the object name, thus enabling the automatic garbage collector to search and destroy [19:47] apachelogger: I did some tests, importing specific things didn't make a difference at all [19:47] yeah [19:48] cant hurt either [19:49] something is weird anyway [19:49] sometimes the mem usage drops sometimes it does not [19:49] Please don't break the printing. Right now printer setup on Kubuntu is far superior to what my wife gets on Max OS X and I'd like to not mess that up. [19:49] * apachelogger is breaking update notification :P [19:50] Ah, OK. That's pretty broken as it is. [19:52] bug 440076 - can anyone try to see if they can reproduce this? I can switch to the modern system windeco w/o any problems [19:52] Bug 440076 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/440076 is private [19:52] hm [19:53] interesting that self.children() in unk does only list the kdirwatches [19:53] well, with KDM, I can confirm that the old way with /etc/init.d/kdm doesn't log out either [19:54] and that is with a patchless install of kdebase-workspace [19:54] apachelogger: yeah, I observed u-n-kde go down from 10.6 MB to 8.x MB last night [19:54] shared mem went from 18 to like 5 [19:54] twas weird [19:54] well [19:55] if children would actually list all the qobject children :P [19:55] ... [19:58] Time to see if the server will reboot into karmic. Hopefully back soon. [20:03] hm [20:03] that is actually fun :D [20:03] nixternal: running rebootEvent(self).show() will make the object die as soon as the main loop leaves the object scope [20:04] one would expect qsignals to ensure the object does not die prematurely [20:04] maybe that applys for qt-c++ but pyqt is always a bit different [20:05] easier to create buggy apps with IMHO [20:09] pyside to the rescue ;) [20:09] hm [20:09] this is insane [20:09] I del the parents object reference [20:09] That was a relatively painless upgrade. Only one high bug filed. [20:09] yet the object does not get garbaged [20:09] PITA [20:25] * Quintasan is back [20:27] Riddelll: omfg, this guy is so persistent -.- [20:29] funz [20:30] JontheEchidna: the gnome notifier is actually written in c :D [20:30] they must have realized python was no fun too [20:30] possibly [20:30] anyway === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [20:31] rebootEvent implements event :) [20:31] JontheEchidna: the design should be fully portable to cpp really [20:32] although, I think currently it looks more like ruby than python :S [20:32] you don't see very many tutorials for unglamourous things like kded modules, but I suppose it shouldn't be too hard [20:32] take a look at some simple one's code [20:32] same goes for KCM really [20:32] we should change the suse free space one to use knotifications [20:32] JontheEchidna: that went upstream [20:32] then use that experience to code an update-helper-kde [20:32] AFAIK [20:32] oh, it did? awesome [20:33] hmm.. notification-helper-kde? [20:33] dunno [20:33] doesnt matter at this point [20:33] much more important [20:33] rant [20:33] the name is the least important part, yeah [20:33] imports dbus bindings, yet calls qdbus [20:33] that is like buying apples to eat a banana :P [20:34] btw [20:34] is there some faster way to write self.var? [20:35] lulz = self.var, then use that locally maybe? [20:35] I suppose self.var is like @var in ruby (i.e. scoped to the class) [20:35] JontheEchidna: that is lame [20:35] ruby > python [20:35] :P [20:35] the more I do python the more I must stress that fact [20:36] btw, what's the syntax for batgetorig'ing one package? [20:36] betgetorig packagename [20:36] I guess [20:36] batgetorig kdepimlibs didn't work [20:36] hm [20:37] batgetorig [ package | extragear | extragear/package ] [20:37] /usr/bin/batgetorig:57: undefined method `include?' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError) [20:37] eh [20:38] archives suck today [20:39] if pkg.include?("extragear") [20:40] JontheEchidna: weird code [20:40] who made that code Oo [20:41] maybe it became sentient and started maintaining itself? [20:41] something like that [20:41] oh it might have been a premature "fix" in my not-so-much-avail-time [20:42] at the least batgetorigrc can serve as a reminder to the scp syntax + ftp url [20:42] Premature is not good. [20:43] well [20:43] anyway syntax is flawed [20:43] if $*[0] != nil [20:43] puts("batgetorig [ package | extragear | extragear/package ]") [20:43] that way the following elif will never be processed if any arg is given [20:43] and the followings are actually responsible for treating the arg... [20:44] chicken-egg problem I suppose :P [20:44] easy to fix though [20:45] dont have bzr installed though [20:45] I thought we don't use these now :P [20:45] dont care to right now either [20:46] oh well unk is annoying the shit out of me [20:46] I shall stop poking that [20:48] urgh, high-leve ruby code [20:48] +l [20:52] Quintasan: actually it is not high-level :P [20:52] more like lower class medium [20:52] to keep it slick :P [20:53] oh well, I have found why's guide in pdf so I can resume learning [20:53] hehe [21:20] any core-dev around that can sponsor bug 441633? [21:20] Launchpad bug 441633 in konversation "New upstream release candidate (Konversation 1.2 RC1)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/441633 [21:32] JontheEchidna: I'll have a look. [21:32] thanks [21:32] 100kB/s!!!! \o/ [21:32] I just saw over 200!!! [21:32] JontheEchidna: How throughly have you tested this? [21:32] 2 hours to sync my image [21:33] I've not had too much chance to test it very long since I posted it as soon as I made packages [21:33] OK. I'll have a look. Let me know if you run into problems. [21:33] JontheEchidna: Would you be able to look at updating xz-utils? [21:34] The one we have has a bad file corrupution bug. [21:34] Yeah, I could do that. [21:34] Thanks. [21:34] ouch, data loss ftl [21:34] And it's not like we care about lzma or anything. [21:53]