[00:00] <JontheEchidna> not much has gone on in bzr since when he committed the jaunty stuff to 4.3 I don't think
[00:00] <Riddell> nothing has
[00:04] <a|wen> Riddell: i get a systemsettings crash every time i try to edit a printer ... dunno if it is just me; but could maybe be due to the new cups, so something needs some updating
[00:07] <Quintasan> gnight
[00:08] <JontheEchidna> good night
[00:11] <nixternal> Riddell: TerminateServer=True in /etc/kde4/kdm/kdmrc allows you to log out
[00:11] <nixternal> it is commented out currently
[00:11] <Riddell> !
[00:12] <JontheEchidna> it's been like that since 4.0
[00:12] <Riddell> a|wen: unlikely to be just you, do report the backtrace on bugs.kde.org
[00:12] <JontheEchidna> I think it might be working around the problem rather than solving it, but if it's the only way
[00:13] <Riddell> mm, right
[00:13] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: you havn't been able to log out since 4.0?
[00:13] <JontheEchidna> ancient nvidia drivers have had an x crash since 4.0
[00:13] <JontheEchidna> it was working for a bit in karmic
[00:13] <JontheEchidna> and I have no clue how since I was on intel
[00:14] <JontheEchidna> but I do know that terminateserver has been set to false, and some people can log out sucessfully with it that way
[00:15] <a|wen> JontheEchidna: what is the problem we're trying to solve?
[00:15] <JontheEchidna> making log out work for everybody. If this is the only way then I'd go with it even if it is a workaround
[00:16] <a|wen> Riddell: okay, i'll try to get some backtraces and report them
[00:16] <JontheEchidna> probably terminating the server instead of reusing it makes things a bit slower, but it's better than not being able to log out
[00:16] <a|wen> oh ... has worked fine for me all the time; graphic card dependant?
[00:17] <JontheEchidna> seems so
[00:17] <JontheEchidna> intel is affected, as well as ancient nvidia
[00:17]  * a|wen is on (in most other regards crappy) ati
[00:18] <JontheEchidna> for TerminateServer:
[00:18] <JontheEchidna> 1455	Comment:
[00:18] <JontheEchidna> 1456	 Restart instead of resetting the local &X-Server; after session exit.
[00:18] <JontheEchidna> 1457	 Use it if the server leaks memory etc.
[00:19] <a|wen> as long as it doesn't gives problems for others, i think it is an okay solution ... kdm seems to restart pretty fast anyway, compared to a few releases ago
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> 1458	Description:
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> 1459	 Whether &kdm; should restart the local &X-Server; after session exit instead
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> 1460	 of resetting it. Use this if the &X-Server; leaks memory or crashes the system
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> 1461	 on reset attempts.
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> looks like we need to use this if there are known X crashes... ha
[00:20] <JontheEchidna> like we could ever expect there not to be X crashes
[00:20] <a|wen> doesn't x restart itself if it detects a crash; i thought it did
[00:20] <JontheEchidna> one must assume there is a silly reason for it not doing so during a logout
[00:21] <JontheEchidna> maybe ksmserver detects such things
[00:22] <JontheEchidna> maybe not, but if they coded a forced restart of X there must be some stupid reason
[00:23] <a|wen> are you sure it actually crashes and not just stalls ;)
[00:23] <a|wen> "legacy" ... i'm pretty sure the auto-restart on crash in the x-server is a somewhat new addition
[00:23] <JontheEchidna> the crash on logout for intel drivers is fixed, but for some reason X doesn't restart unless you force it to
[00:24] <nixternal> heh, ARch is using our notifications :)
[00:25] <a|wen> nixternal: the ayatana ones?
[00:25] <JontheEchidna> but ayatana is the spawn of the devil!
[00:25] <JontheEchidna> and arch is the holiest of binary distributions
[00:25] <JontheEchidna> :P
[00:26] <nixternal> a|wen: yes
[00:26] <a|wen> :P
[00:26] <nixternal> http://chakra-project.org/code/index.php/view/packages:/core/kdebase-workspace/backport_fdo_notifications.patch
[00:26] <JontheEchidna> If Arch fanbois are hardcore... I don't want to encounter Chakra fans
[00:26] <a|wen> i actually find them very nice!
[00:26] <nixternal> even has agateau's name written all over it :)
[00:33] <JontheEchidna> eh, maybe it's not fair to generalize about distro fanboys
[00:33] <JontheEchidna> But if Arch users think they're elite... and then Chakra is an even eliter version of Arch....
[00:34] <nixternal> we only have a few more patches than opensuse does in kdebase-workspace..the rest we are like even...why do people say we ruin the experience by patching so much?
[00:34] <nixternal> it does seem that the Chakra project is pretty sane though on their patches
[00:34] <ScottK> nixternal: TerminateServer doesn't sound like a good thing for switching users though
[00:35] <nixternal> they have cherry picked the patches between Kubuntu, Debian, and openSUSE from what I can see just in kdebase-workspace
[00:35] <nixternal> ScottK: I have no clue, it allows me to log out
[00:35] <nixternal> I don't think the KDM issue is related to kdebase-workspace patches at all
[00:35] <ScottK> OK
[00:35] <nixternal> I build a patcheless kdebase-workspace and I still couldn't log out
[00:35] <JontheEchidna> I have a theory. We (hope that we) have a lot of users. With more users there is a higher chance of things going wrong, leading to a higher chance of people complaining from distro X. Complainers find each other on the internet and congregate. The more complainers that are found, the more certain they are that Kubuntu is the source of their problems, even if it is an upstream issue
[00:36] <ScottK> Sounds reasonable.
[00:36] <JontheEchidna> They try distro Y where by chance the issue does not occur, and hate distro X for life
[00:36] <ScottK> Thanks to opensuse 10.1 there is a zero percent chance of me using opensuse ever again
[00:36] <nixternal> well, I think we need to reaproach our patches for Lucid...it seems a bit crazy to have 43 patches just for kdebase-workspace
[00:37] <ScottK> This is in line with your theory JontheEchidna.
[00:37] <ScottK> nixternal: Agreed.
[00:37] <JontheEchidna> Less patches is definitely a good idea
[00:37] <JontheEchidna> If we could separate them out into debian, kubuntu and upstream cherrypick folders that would be awesome
[00:37] <nixternal> well, I was thinking, just for fun, that I would package up kdecore stuff w/o patches and then benchmark to see
[00:37] <nixternal> that way there we would at least have a base to compare against
[00:37] <JontheEchidna> That sort of thing has worked out great for the konversation package
[00:41] <JontheEchidna> we could use glxgears for a benchmark! :P
[00:42] <Sput> hmmm... Gentoo is still waiting for libindicate to lose its unnecessary gtk-build-time deps, after that we'll package it as well for people to try out :)
[00:43]  * Sput is sorta curious to figure out what agateau did to his Quassel
[00:43] <nixternal> probably the same thing with kopete...I get these nudges or people adding me, and the popup goes away before I can do anything, and then I go to kopete and there is nothing there
[00:44] <JontheEchidna> I see at least 3 patches in kdebase-runtime that could be upstreamed
[00:46] <JontheEchidna> the 6 fdo notifications patches are merged upstream, except for the discard actions patch
[00:51] <ScottK> And we don't enable that one by default.
[00:52] <Riddell> Sput: seriously?  gentoo is waiting for a build time dep change?  they really have a funny idea about users
[00:53] <Sput> Riddell: dragging in half of gnome for a lib that doesn't depend on gnome is not acceptable
[00:53] <Riddell> for developers!
[00:53] <Sput> Riddell: we're a source-based distro
[00:53] <Sput> so we can't just ship the binaries :)
[00:54] <Sput> so build-time deps actually matter for our users
[00:54] <JontheEchidna> don't all Gentoo users have quad core machines with 4 GB of RAM and 1TB hard drives?
[00:54] <JontheEchidna> (I joke)
[00:54] <Sput> yes, but that doesn't mean that all Gentoo users want to have half of gNOme installed :)
[00:55]  * Sput "fondly" remembers installing gNOme's nm-applet to configure networkmanager when knm wasn't ready yet, and having to install 83 packages for a tray applet
[00:56] <JontheEchidna> Oo
[00:56] <Sput> at least those were runtime deps :)
[00:57] <Sput> but build-time deps that are unnecessary (at least that's what agataeu told me, they're just required by the buildsys) won't pass through our QA
[00:58] <JontheEchidna> what are they using? GAutotools?
[00:58] <Sput> I have no idea, haven't looked at it myself
[00:58] <JontheEchidna> I would be very afraid if such a thing existed
[00:58] <Sput> prolly some unneeded autocrap checks
[00:58] <nixternal> have we been updating bzr at all for the core packages? I just ran a bzr pull on all of the directories and there were no updates..I don't remember doing an update recently to pull in changes
[00:59] <JontheEchidna> yeah, bzr is still in use
[00:59] <JontheEchidna> which package?
[00:59] <nixternal> I must of...heh, they are all udpated
[00:59] <nixternal> weird
[00:59] <JontheEchidna> :)
[01:00] <Sput> let's just say, if Canonical wants to have their inidicator stuff tried more widespread, they need to work on deployment and build system :)
[01:01] <Sput> afaik agateau opened a bug to that respect, so here's hoping they fix it soonish
[01:02]  * nixternal goes out to eat
[01:05]  * JontheEchidna lets kdebase-runtime continue to build and goes off to play some video games
[01:28]  * Sput rebuilds his KDE as well
[01:29] <Sput> four days is an eternity in KDE world.
[03:26] <nixternal> do we have a list of "MUST FIX NOW BUGS!"?
[03:27] <ScottK> IIRC the KDM one is one of the biggest, but let me find the  list.
[03:29] <ScottK> nixternal: We got KDM plus OOo save dialog and then:
[03:29] <ScottK> Some kcontrol modules missing translations
[03:29] <ScottK> KDM/ksmserver hangs on logout
[03:29] <ScottK> KPacakgeKit broken probably due to policykit crash
[03:38] <nixternal> hrmm
[03:39] <nixternal> the KDM one is tricky
[03:41] <nixternal> since I am looking at the KDM stuff, I am going to go through the kdebase-workspace list
[03:45] <nixternal> are we honoring bugs in LP that deal with our PPA?
[03:46]  * nixternal fix releases it anyways
[04:10] <ScottK> If it's a real bug, sure
[04:11] <nixternal> I don't even remember what it was anymore, but I know I wasn't having that problem :)
[04:13]  * ScottK just spent some time looking at what Google had to say about Kubuntu Netbook.  It was all pretty good.
[04:18] <nixternal> stupid ass freenode
[04:24] <ScottK> That's pretty redundant.
[04:41] <rgreening> hey all
[04:41] <rgreening> just finished watchin SG-U on space :)
[04:41] <nixternal> wasabi foolio
[04:41] <rgreening> hehe
[04:41] <rgreening> kmail just crashed.. grr.
[04:42] <nixternal> hahaha
[04:42] <nixternal> mutt is running like a champ
[04:46]  * nixternal is being an ass and asking questions in bug reports and setting them to incomplete (59 days!)
[04:46] <nixternal> ;)
[05:28] <JontheEchidna> man... you rock nixternal. you should be an ass more often ;-)
[05:29] <JontheEchidna> by the way, the ksnapshot bug was fixed the 30th and made it in to 4.3.2
[05:29] <JontheEchidna> see ya'll tomorrow
[05:30] <nixternal> oh rock on
[05:30] <nixternal> g'nite
[05:31] <nixternal> i didn't figure it got backported in a day, KDE rocks!
[07:34] <Quintasan> hiho
[07:57] <markey> wow, giant updates today in karmic :)
[07:57] <markey> 230 MB
[08:04] <markey> is there any way to disable Apport completely?
[08:04] <markey> it comes up a lot, and I really don't need it
[08:06] <Quintasan> how come I need to run kbluetooth using sudo?
[08:07] <nixternal> hey, KDM...if you have one user, the user list doesn't show, but if you add another user, then the list shows...I am guessing this is expect behavior but I am not positive...anyone know?
[08:12] <markey> I've already set enabled=0
[08:13] <markey> in /etc/default/apport
[08:13] <markey> doesn't really help
[08:13] <markey> kdesudo comes up all the time for apport
[08:14] <nixternal> heh, same for everybody...hopefully it will be fixed soon as it is a bit of a mess
[09:17] <nixternal> kdebase-workspace cleaned up a bit...I am going to bed now
[09:17] <nixternal> g'nite
[10:45] <ulysses__> greetings, Can I have a question? so, yesterday was a meeting, nad some battle, for example kaffeine vs. dragon player
[10:45] <ulysses__> which video player was the winner?
[11:18] <a|wen> ulysses__: dragon player for karmic ... though kaffeine will be on the dvd as well (iirc)
[11:18] <ulysses__> a|wen: thanks
[14:37] <allee-k> KarmicUpgrades misses:  how to upgrade jaunty -> karmic without X (broken jaunty Xserver)  :(
[14:40] <a|wen> allee-k: do-release-upgrade should be the console way of doing upgrades
[14:50] <allee-k> a|wen: thx
[14:54] <allee-k> grbml. This laptop has black humor :(  now after dozends of tries and reboots, now that I know how-to-without-X, the Xserver started after rebooting :(
[15:05] <a|wen> hehe, never meddle with technology
[15:17] <ScottK> Clearly we need to make using the beta release sound more scary.
[15:18] <ScottK> Updates are wayyyy to slow
[15:23] <Nightrose> hehe
[15:24] <Nightrose> anyone working on getting amarok 2.2 final into karmic?
[15:25] <jussi01> grrr, why does pulse keep getting installed. pulse is of the devil...
[15:26] <ScottK> jussi01: aptitude why pulseaudio
[15:26] <jussi01> !info amarok karmic
[15:26] <ScottK> That's the one thing I use aptitude for
[15:28] <jussi01> ScottK: ahh. thanks. thats very cool.
[15:28] <jussi01> but puse is still evil...
[15:28] <ScottK> Back (hopefully) in a bit.  Need to reboot the server the core is on for a new kernel.
[15:28] <jussi01> pulse
[15:28] <jussi01> ScottK: see you soon
[15:36] <jussi01> ScottK: welcome back
[15:37] <ScottK> Thanks
[15:37] <jussi01> ScottK: you may want to put your nickserv pass as your server pass though, then you are identified before joining channels.
[15:37]  * ScottK keeps meaning to do that.
[15:38] <jussi01> ScottK: btw, I got around the whole phonon mess.... by using the cmake flag to not build with phonon... not ideal, but works.
[15:39] <ScottK> I'm not sure what was causing that as the quassel package builds fine without change
[15:41] <Quintasan> Riddelll: ping
[16:56] <Riddelll> hi Quintasan
[16:57] <Quintasan> Riddelll: I have recived the email regarding dooble, however I dunno what yayc is and how I'm supposed to include it :/
[17:14] <freinhard> hi!
[17:15] <freinhard> distupgrade failed with "ERROR SystemError from cache.commit(): installArchives() failed" in /var/log/dist-upgrade/main.log
[17:16] <freinhard> /var/log/dpkg.log doesn't show any recent actions, so i guess nothing has been installed yet
[17:21] <Riddelll> Quintasan: I think ignore it
[17:21] <freinhard> as i close the message box that i should run dpkg --configure -a i get notified that the system upgrade was successfull but there were some errors. i guess that's plain sarcasm ;)
[17:22] <Riddelll> Quintasan: oh read now, well  if he's changing to GPL that's more interesting
[17:26] <Riddelll> Quintasan: just say you don't know  what it  is and there's no package of it  so that's not  possible
[17:26] <Riddelll> no point going even more out of  our way for  him
[18:01] <freinhard> hooray, FIXME in apt.cache.Cache *grr*
[18:01] <ScottK> Anyone having trouble with enabling compositing today?
[18:02] <ScottK> My mini 10v won't do desktop effects anymore
[18:04] <freinhard> i'd love to try, but can't upgrade.
[18:05] <ScottK> ;-)
[18:08] <freinhard> btw, what happened to the code.launchpad.net inteface? looks awful...
[18:12] <ScottK> freinhard: The usual thing when Launchpad developers decide to improve tings.
[18:13] <ScottK> Restarting the system didn't help either ...
[18:14] <freinhard> must be a serius problem. bugs that don't get fixed by rebooting are tough ones ;)
[18:15] <ScottK> For the moment, I'm going to suspect nixternal's kdm logout work around.
[18:20] <ScottK> In other news, it's really annoying to have a 6 hour battery life when you want to test the low power suspend warning.  Anyone know a manual way to trigger that?
[18:20] <ScottK> Bingo.
[18:21] <ScottK> nixternal: If I use your kdm work around I lose compositing.
[18:23] <nixternal> really?
[18:23] <nixternal> I don't
[18:23] <ScottK> This is on my mini 10v
[18:23] <nixternal> ScottK: you should be able to trigger the suspend using qdbus
[18:23] <ScottK> I just re-enabled the work around and am rebooting.
[18:24] <ScottK> We'll see.
[18:24] <ScottK> nixternal: Any suggestions on how (qdbus)?
[18:24] <ScottK> Weird.
[18:25] <freinhard> anyone round who's a bit deepter into python-apt? documentation isn't really verbose and i'd like to know how to get error messages from a PackageManager
[18:26] <freinhard> ...PkgManager
[18:49] <ScottK> nixternal: I can't replicate the compositing loss anymore, so unless proven otherwise, I'll assume it was something else
[19:03] <nixternal> hehe
[19:04] <nixternal> I take it the amarok upload is quite broken? I haven't looked, but I see it is held back on my amd64 machines and not even available for x86
[19:05] <nixternal> stupid LP. I get one of those ajaxy popups saying "An error was encountered" with just an "OK" button...I know GNOME likes to dumb down their error messages, but that is going a bit to far :p
[19:05] <apachelogger> funky
[19:05] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: getting unk to not eat mem is going to be tricky
[19:06] <apachelogger> no clue what I did yesterday but I am back to 31 MiB :S
[19:06] <apachelogger> oh, I borked my branch
[19:07] <freinhard> nixternal: better some error popup than just nothing like python-apt's apt.cache.Cache.commit
[19:09] <apachelogger> anyway
[19:09] <apachelogger> garbage collection ought to be fun
[19:13] <apachelogger> nixternal: can a pyobject destroy itself?
[19:16] <nixternal> when the app closes of course :p
[19:16] <nixternal> need more context for this one :)
[19:16] <nixternal> trying to remember if PyObject.Destroy() is still valid or not...been quite some time, probably the last time I read my Python In A Nutshell book :p
[19:17] <apachelogger> well
[19:19] <apachelogger> say I have an object foo, that triggers a knotification, foo exists until the user reacts to the knotification... so once the user triggered some action, foo should do whatever is necessary for that action and then destroy itself
[19:20] <apachelogger> self will only recreate the foo object if its name is not yet occupied (i.e. there is no notification waiting for user reaction)
[19:21] <apachelogger> in order to not have foo tell self that it is now ready to be destroyed, foo should just do it itself
[19:23] <nixternal> are you using like 'self.foo = KNotification.event(blah blah lbah)' in a function?
[19:23] <apachelogger> aye
[19:23] <nixternal> self.foo used anywhere else other than that function?
[19:23] <apachelogger> well, technically KNotification.event is done by foo
[19:23] <apachelogger> nixternal: no
[19:24] <nixternal> I need to see the code..I think I just confused myself
[19:24] <apachelogger> lol
[19:24] <nixternal> I am pretty sure I just confused myself :)  I just woke up dude..I was up until 03:30 hacking on some bugs :)
[19:26] <apachelogger> nixternal: http://paste.ubuntu.com/284806/
[19:28] <nixternal> once self.rebooter.show() is completed, it is dead
[19:28] <nixternal> that is unless of course there is something funky in def rebooter():
[19:28] <apachelogger> how so?
[19:29] <apachelogger> dude
[19:29] <nixternal> KNotification.event destroys itself upon closing (at least I thought)
[19:29] <apachelogger> you are talking about apacheloggercode :P
[19:29] <apachelogger> all about it is funky
[19:29] <nixternal> lol
[19:29] <apachelogger> http://paste.ubuntu.com/284808/
[19:30] <apachelogger> do ignore and hide should all call close or something, that leads to the object being destroyed
[19:31] <nixternal> correct
[19:32] <apachelogger> hm
[19:33] <apachelogger> nixternal: I wonder what happens if they do it via Qt
[19:33] <nixternal> ahh, dude you just helped me figure out my problem with configGroup...damn QVariant(True)...that has been killing me :)
[19:33]  * apachelogger tries deleteLater
[19:33] <apachelogger> nixternal: actually it is all pythons fault :P
[19:33] <apachelogger> IIRC in ruby you will not have to do type conversion
[19:33] <apachelogger> possibly rubyqt does this by default or something
[19:33] <nixternal> right, and I wasn't doing type conversion
[19:34] <apachelogger> I see
[19:34] <nixternal> I followed someone elses example which was evil to begin with
[19:34] <apachelogger> only follow apacheloggercode :P
[19:34] <nixternal> the great thing about Python is you don't have to know wtf you are doing and you can still write a python app :p
[19:34] <apachelogger> and run into bugs
[19:34] <nixternal> only if you are a GNOME dev :p
[19:35] <apachelogger> who would know that self.connect(self.kn, SIGNAL("action1Activated"), self.__do) does not work because the () for the signal are missing
[19:35] <nixternal> I need the old kdm script for /etc/init.d/
[19:35] <nixternal> I want to make sure this KDM issue isn't related to upstart
[19:35] <ScottK> Should be on Launchpad
[19:35]  * nixternal does bzr diff to find out
[19:35] <ScottK> that too
[19:36] <nixternal> bzr revert -r182
[19:36] <nixternal> woohoo
[19:36] <nixternal> got it :)
[19:38] <apachelogger>     self.deleteLater()
[19:38] <apachelogger> RuntimeError: underlying C/C++ object has been deleted
[19:38] <apachelogger> bah
[19:39]  * ScottK is really glad he got that fiber optic connection to the house so he can download Ubuntu updates at a blazing 100kB/s.
[19:42]  * ryanakca grins
[19:42] <ScottK> Ohhh.  Missed a zero.  Now 10.4.
[19:43] <nixternal> lol
[19:43] <nixternal> dude, I have fiber too, and I am getting 45.5 right now
[19:43] <ScottK> Yeah, I'm back up in the 40s now too.
[19:44] <ScottK> Too bad it couldn't have been predicted that lots of people would download the betas so they could have planned ahead for more bandwidth.
[19:45]  * apachelogger does not know what to do :(
[19:45] <nixternal> apachelogger: don't be sad, I don't know what to do everyday :)
[19:46] <apachelogger> I mean to destroy the object :P
[19:46]  * ScottK hands apachelogger a baseball bat.
[19:47] <apachelogger> I suppose the only solution is to emit a signal connected to the parent which triggers parent to unset the object name, thus enabling the automatic garbage collector to search and destroy
[19:47] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I did some tests, importing specific things didn't make a difference at all
[19:47] <apachelogger> yeah
[19:48] <apachelogger> cant hurt either
[19:49] <apachelogger> something is weird anyway
[19:49] <apachelogger> sometimes the mem usage drops sometimes it does not
[19:49] <ScottK> Please don't break the printing.  Right now printer setup on Kubuntu is far superior to what my wife gets on Max OS X and I'd like to not mess that up.
[19:49]  * apachelogger is breaking update notification :P
[19:50] <ScottK> Ah, OK.  That's pretty broken as it is.
[19:52] <nixternal> bug 440076 - can anyone try to see if they can reproduce this? I can switch to the modern system windeco w/o any problems
[19:52] <apachelogger> hm
[19:53] <apachelogger> interesting that self.children() in unk does only list the kdirwatches
[19:53] <nixternal> well, with KDM, I can confirm that the old way with /etc/init.d/kdm doesn't log out either
[19:54] <nixternal> and that is with a patchless install of kdebase-workspace
[19:54] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: yeah, I observed u-n-kde go down from 10.6 MB to 8.x MB last night
[19:54] <JontheEchidna> shared mem went from 18 to like 5
[19:54] <JontheEchidna> twas weird
[19:54] <apachelogger> well
[19:55] <apachelogger> if children would actually list all the qobject children :P
[19:55] <apachelogger> ...
[19:58] <ScottK> Time to see if the server will reboot into karmic.  Hopefully back soon.
[20:03] <apachelogger> hm
[20:03] <apachelogger> that is actually fun :D
[20:03] <apachelogger> nixternal: running rebootEvent(self).show() will make the object die as soon as the main loop leaves the object scope
[20:04] <apachelogger> one would expect qsignals to ensure the object does not die prematurely
[20:04] <freinhard> maybe that applys for qt-c++ but pyqt is always a bit different
[20:05] <apachelogger> easier to create buggy apps with IMHO
[20:09] <freinhard> pyside to the rescue ;)
[20:09] <apachelogger> hm
[20:09] <apachelogger> this is insane
[20:09] <apachelogger> I del the parents object reference
[20:09] <ScottK> That was a relatively painless upgrade.  Only one high bug filed.
[20:09] <apachelogger> yet the object does not get garbaged
[20:09] <apachelogger> PITA
[20:25]  * Quintasan is back
[20:27] <Quintasan> Riddelll: omfg, this guy is so persistent -.-
[20:29] <apachelogger> funz
[20:30] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: the gnome notifier is actually written in c :D
[20:30] <JontheEchidna> they must have realized python was no fun too
[20:30] <apachelogger> possibly
[20:30] <apachelogger> anyway
[20:31] <apachelogger> rebootEvent implements event :)
[20:31] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: the design should be fully portable to cpp really
[20:32] <apachelogger> although, I think currently it looks more like ruby than python :S
[20:32] <JontheEchidna> you don't see very many tutorials for unglamourous things like kded modules, but I suppose it shouldn't be too hard
[20:32] <apachelogger> take a look at some simple one's code
[20:32] <apachelogger> same goes for KCM really
[20:32] <JontheEchidna> we should change the suse free space one to use knotifications
[20:32] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: that went upstream
[20:32] <JontheEchidna> then use that experience to code an update-helper-kde
[20:32] <apachelogger> AFAIK
[20:32] <JontheEchidna> oh, it did? awesome
[20:33] <JontheEchidna> hmm.. notification-helper-kde?
[20:33] <apachelogger> dunno
[20:33] <apachelogger> doesnt matter at this point
[20:33] <apachelogger> much more important
[20:33] <apachelogger> rant
[20:33] <JontheEchidna> the name is the least important part, yeah
[20:33] <apachelogger> imports dbus bindings, yet calls qdbus
[20:33] <apachelogger> that is like buying apples to eat a banana :P
[20:34] <apachelogger> btw
[20:34] <apachelogger> is there some faster way to write self.var?
[20:35] <JontheEchidna> lulz = self.var, then use that locally maybe?
[20:35] <apachelogger> I suppose self.var is like @var in ruby (i.e. scoped to the class)
[20:35] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: that is lame
[20:35] <apachelogger> ruby > python
[20:35] <apachelogger> :P
[20:35] <apachelogger> the more I do python the more I must stress that fact
[20:36] <JontheEchidna> btw, what's the syntax for batgetorig'ing one package?
[20:36] <apachelogger> betgetorig packagename
[20:36] <apachelogger> I guess
[20:36] <JontheEchidna> batgetorig kdepimlibs didn't work
[20:36] <apachelogger> hm
[20:37] <JontheEchidna> batgetorig [ package | extragear | extragear/package ]
[20:37] <JontheEchidna> /usr/bin/batgetorig:57: undefined method `include?' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError)
[20:37] <apachelogger> eh
[20:38] <Quintasan> archives suck today
[20:39] <apachelogger> if pkg.include?("extragear")
[20:40] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: weird code
[20:40] <apachelogger> who made that code Oo
[20:41] <JontheEchidna> maybe it became sentient and started maintaining itself?
[20:41] <apachelogger> something like that
[20:41] <apachelogger> oh it might have been a premature "fix" in my not-so-much-avail-time
[20:42] <JontheEchidna> at the least batgetorigrc can serve as a reminder to the scp syntax + ftp url
[20:42] <ScottK> Premature is not good.
[20:43] <apachelogger> well
[20:43] <apachelogger> anyway syntax is flawed
[20:43] <apachelogger> if $*[0] != nil
[20:43] <apachelogger>     puts("batgetorig [ package | extragear | extragear/package ]")
[20:43] <apachelogger> that way the following elif will never be processed if any arg is given
[20:43] <apachelogger> and the followings are actually responsible for treating the arg...
[20:44] <apachelogger> chicken-egg problem I suppose :P
[20:44] <apachelogger> easy to fix though
[20:45] <apachelogger> dont have bzr installed though
[20:45] <Quintasan> I thought we don't use these now :P
[20:45] <apachelogger> dont care to right now either
[20:46] <apachelogger> oh well unk is annoying the shit out of me
[20:46] <apachelogger> I shall stop poking that
[20:48] <Quintasan> urgh, high-leve ruby code
[20:48] <Quintasan> +l
[20:52] <apachelogger> Quintasan: actually it is not high-level :P
[20:52] <apachelogger> more like lower class medium
[20:52] <apachelogger> to keep it slick :P
[20:53] <Quintasan> oh well, I have found why's guide in pdf so I can resume learning
[20:53] <apachelogger> hehe
[21:20] <JontheEchidna> any core-dev around that can sponsor bug 441633?
[21:32] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I'll have a look.
[21:32] <JontheEchidna> thanks
[21:32] <nixternal> 100kB/s!!!! \o/
[21:32] <nixternal> I just saw over 200!!!
[21:32] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: How throughly have you tested this?
[21:32] <nixternal> 2 hours to sync my image
[21:33] <JontheEchidna> I've not had too much chance to test it very long since I posted it as soon as I made packages
[21:33] <ScottK> OK.  I'll have a look.  Let me know if you run into problems.
[21:33] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Would you be able to look at updating xz-utils?
[21:34] <ScottK> The one we have has a bad file corrupution bug.
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, I could do that.
[21:34] <ScottK> Thanks.
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> ouch, data loss ftl
[21:34] <ScottK> And it's not like we care about lzma or anything.
[21:53] <yuriy> sad, no other kubuntu users at MIT's bug jam
[21:54] <nixternal> it will be like that for me tomorrow at the Chicago Jam
[21:54] <ScottK> We are few, but we are strong
[21:54] <nixternal> though I usually just backhand the ones who try to talk trash
[21:55] <ScottK> One of the interesting things I learned in Barcelona (last UDS) is that Canonical employees are supposed to use Ubuntu so that they are so to say eating their own dogfood.  Using Kubuntu counts for dogfooding.  Using Xubuntu or one of the other non-main derivatives does not.
[21:56] <ScottK> So a fair number of Canonicla people use Kubuntu.
[21:56] <yuriy> strong ... fine print: graphical package management not included
[21:57] <ScottK> It's there.  Just doesn't work very well.
[21:57] <dtchen> it's pretty much impossible for me to dogfood
[21:58] <dtchen> i don't have nearly all the hardware my code touches
[21:58] <ScottK> ;-)
[21:58] <yuriy> this is really weird, I can't get to bugs.kde.org, even though everyone else can. kind of hard to do anything useful like this.
[22:02] <yuriy> oh damn guest wireless.
[22:11] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Any reason I shouldn't go ahead an upload this Konversation?
[22:13] <yuriy> anyone else getting duplicate systray icons?
[22:14] <ScottK> yuriy: Do you have two systrays stacked on top of each other?
[22:14]  * ScottK has had that before.
[22:14] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: none that I can think of
[22:14] <ScottK> OK
[22:14] <yuriy> ScottK: nope, but interesting theory
[22:15] <yuriy> what does the apport /var/crash monitoring for Ubuntu?
[22:15] <JontheEchidna> I have an interesting build failure with xz-utils. It fails at the start when it's running debuild clean: http://paste.ubuntu.com/284925/
[22:15] <JontheEchidna> any magic I have to run before debuilding?
[22:16] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.
[22:16] <dtchen> mmm, autotool-fu
[22:16]  * JontheEchidna lacks autotool-fu
[22:16] <dtchen> so, at the very least, that's stuff from autoconf and automake
[22:16] <JontheEchidna> more like, fu autotool
[22:16] <dtchen> well, yes, that, too
[22:17] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: There are some interesting comments in debian/changelog about manual config, but I didn't get a chance to look into it.
[22:17]  * ScottK is lacking in the auto deparment too.
[22:19] <dtchen> i don't know the preferred approach for that package in particular, but that's really:
[22:19] <dtchen> intltoolize --force --copy
[22:19] <dtchen> libtoolize --force --copy --automake
[22:19] <dtchen> automake --gnu --add-missing --force --copy
[22:19] <yuriy> what u-n-k does for crash reporting looks rather weird to me and I don't understand why it would work. I want to look at what the ubuntu thing does
[22:19] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: bzr updated too.
[22:20] <dtchen> some of the flags may not be desirable; again, i'm unfamiliar with that specific source packae
[22:21] <JontheEchidna> ERROR: 'IT_PROG_INTLTOOL' must appear in configure.ac for intltool to work.
[22:22] <JontheEchidna> this package might be out of the realm of my capabilities
[22:26] <ScottK> Might be a good learning experience.
[22:26] <ScottK> I'd try skipping inltoolize and move on to libtoolize.
[22:27] <JontheEchidna> all 3 of those gave the same error
[22:28] <JontheEchidna> I am gaining a greater appreciation of cmake from this experience
[22:28] <nixternal> cmake > *
[22:30] <yuriy> MI looks pretty broken to me
[22:30] <JontheEchidna> we just got a bug report about kmail not showing up in it after the latest updates
[22:31] <JontheEchidna> bug 441729
[22:31] <yuriy> kopete is showing up but when a message comes in it just flashes and goes away
[22:31] <yuriy> nothing in the indicator popup except the kopete icon
[22:31] <yuriy> this might be because i have queue messages off in kopete
[22:32] <yuriy> every time i give kopete a try i have to change a bunch of things like that, the default settings are awful
[22:32] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: It was default on before by mistake.  The last upload changed the default to off (as it should have been all along).  If they manually turn it on, it should work.
[22:32] <JontheEchidna> oh, ok
[22:34] <Quintasan> wut, current buffer in vim == opened file?
[22:35] <dtchen> JontheEchidna: source package location?
[22:35] <dtchen> may as well take a break from hacking up sound/pci/hda/*
[22:35] <JontheEchidna> dtchen: zx-utils, apt-get source'd from the archive
[22:35] <JontheEchidna> new upstream release that fixes a corruption bug
[22:35] <ScottK> Then drop a new tarball on top of it
[22:35] <yuriy> ScottK: looks like still default on for kopete
[22:36] <ScottK> Is bug then.
[22:36] <dtchen> err, xz-utils?
[22:36] <dtchen> right.
[22:36] <JontheEchidna> does it really matter if the plugin is on by default if there is no indicator on the desktop by default?
[22:36] <nixternal> maco: that lady in the video you just linked to, the one who was in front of the AT&T banner, that was my old boss Pam!!!
[22:36] <maco> hahahah awesome
[22:36] <nixternal> I hated her with a passion, but it is cool to see she is in the video
[22:37] <yuriy> looks like update-notifier is hardcoded to apport-gtk. so i wonder why i'm bothering.
[22:37] <nixternal> i run into her at the gym every now and then and she still tries to preach to me :)
[22:38] <nixternal> awesome unix hacker, horrible boss
[22:39] <nixternal> I said "Vista and Windows 7" in a recent tweet, and now I have had 28 people who are MS nutbags start following me
[22:39] <Quintasan> nixternal: that's Twitter for you :D
[22:40] <nixternal> someone bragging that "love word 2007" has more hits on google than "hate word 2007"
[22:40] <JontheEchidna> maybe nixternal just naturally attracts tech drama?
[22:40] <Quintasan> drama magnet :D
[22:40] <dtchen> JontheEchidna: i think you're onto something
[22:40] <nixternal> so I did "hate office 2007" vs. "hate openoffice", and openoffice won with just a few thousand hits where the office 2007 one had almost 200,000 hits :)
[22:41] <dtchen> JontheEchidna: am i supposed to grabbing a new upstream version?
[22:41] <JontheEchidna> dtchen: wget http://tukaani.org/xz/xz-4.999.9beta.tar.gz
[22:41] <dtchen> ah, that's better.
[22:41] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: There is an indicator on the desktop by default.
[22:42] <JontheEchidna> ooh
[22:42] <ScottK> Not for upgrades, just for new installs.
[22:43] <ScottK> Present, but not doing anything was the compromise.
[22:43] <dtchen> jeez, no debian/ in 4.999.9beta?
[22:44] <JontheEchidna> that's the pure upstream tarball
[22:45] <dtchen> yeah, i'm just bitter with uupdate
[22:45] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: are you going to UDS?
[22:45] <yuriy> oh guess you have school right
[22:45] <JontheEchidna> yeah :(
[22:46] <ScottK> What he has is misplaced priorities
[22:47] <dtchen> no, that's maco.
[22:47] <dtchen> cough.
[22:47] <maco> what i do?
[22:48] <maco> oh yeah im going to school instead of UDS too
[22:48] <maco> also: what sort of icon would be appropriate for a mips assembly emulator?
[22:48] <dtchen> you kinda need to if you want to pass
[22:48] <maco> dtchen: that too
[22:49] <maco> like, how does one represent an emulator? this package doesnt have a .desktop so im adding one but it doesnt have an icon either so im gonna make one but...bwahh?
[22:49] <dtchen> an icon that has MIPS ASM in it.
[22:49] <dtchen> be creative; use that noggin'!
[22:50] <maco> oh. crud! otsukimi started 20 minutes ago. dang!
[22:51] <nixternal> maco: don't feel bad, I am going on a bike trip instead of UDS :)
[22:54] <dtchen> yeah, i'm going to work instead of UDS
[22:54] <dtchen> not that i have a choice in this particular deployment
[22:56]  * Quintasan want's to go to UDS but he is in queue for sponsorship
[22:56] <Quintasan> -'
[22:58] <dtchen> JontheEchidna: you just need to run autoconf && autoheader && automake --gnu --add-missing --force --copy
[22:58] <dtchen> JontheEchidna: then do the debuild foo
[22:59] <JontheEchidna> cool, thanks
[23:02] <dtchen> np
[23:05] <JontheEchidna> still fails in pbuilder after running those then debuilding :(
[23:05]  * yuriy wants a magical instant kdelibs builder
[23:06] <JontheEchidna> then pbuilding the resulting source package
[23:06] <yuriy> i should remember to keep my work computer on over the weekend and put a pbuilder on there
[23:16] <ScottK> I should remember to switch back to KDE notifications before trying out the low battery suspend notification.
[23:24] <ScottK> OK, notifcation is back and the timer is 30 seconds, unfortunately the notification itself is only 5 sseconds.
[23:27] <yuriy> is there a way to change that?
[23:29] <nixternal> yes, I would like to know how to do that, especially for kopete notifications that come and go so fast that I don't even know what happened
[23:31] <ScottK> In theory
[23:31]  * ScottK looks around
[23:58] <yuriy> what do I need to do to set up userconfig for translations?
[23:58] <yuriy> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/userconfig says no templates available