Zachk18Madpilot, welcome01:37
Madpilothi Zachk1801:37
Zachk18so....been around long?01:42
Madpilota long time, actually, just not active in docs the last few years01:44
MadpilotI helped to the massive rewrite of the 6.06 Dapper help files, then kind of drifted out of docwork01:44
Madpilotthese days I'm so far out of the loop I basically loiter here out of habit :)01:49
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hollmanhello *18:43
cumulus007Hi, as an Ubuntu translator, I noticed the presence of the Ubuntu Server Guide as a translatable package19:01
cumulus007I have a question regarding this: where are translated versions of this guide to be found?19:01
hollmanZachk18, cumulus007 I have a question, I'm from Bogota, Colombia, I'm interesting to be part of the oficial documentation team,19:03
hollmani like to translate the oficial documetatino to spanish, this is possible ?19:04
cumulus007hollman, I'm sorry, I can't help you with that, I'm a translator19:04
cumulus007You will have to contact the Spanish translation team, which can be found on Launchpad19:04
Zachk18and i can't help except point you in the right direction19:05
Zachk18which is where you already19:05
hollman4 exapmple19:06
hollmanwe have https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Postfix19:06
hollmanis possible translate this ? where can i put my contributions ?19:07
Zachk18hollman, if you are looking to join the doc team go here. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Zachk18 plenty of links to get you started19:07
Rocket2DMnhollman, that is a community documenation wiki page19:08
Rocket2DMnhollman, it can be translated, but anybody can update the page at any time, unlike the system docs19:08
Rocket2DMnhollman, I don't know where the spanish team keeps wiki documentation19:08
hollmanRocket2DMn, so, I have to be part of the oficial documentation wiki ?19:10
Rocket2DMnhollman, no, it depends on what you want to translate19:10
Rocket2DMnunfortunately I don't know much about doing translations on Launchpad, but the ones on LP would be for official system docs and other programs19:11
hollmanRocket2DMn, I want to translate the officia documentation wiki to spanish19:11
Rocket2DMnanything at  https://help.ubuntu.com/community is part of the Community Doc wiki, which anybody can edit19:11
Rocket2DMnhollman, system docs are made available in html format at https://help.ubuntu.com/ (note there is no /community) - this isn't a wiki area19:12
hollmanRocket2DMn, ok, but where can i put mi traslation ? for example in spanish19:12
Rocket2DMnhollman, let me see if i can find the resource for you19:13
Rocket2DMnhere we go - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation19:13
hollmanRocket2DMn, , thank you very much19:13
Rocket2DMnno problem19:13
dhillon-v10how is everyone doing19:15
Zachk18dhillon-v10, good19:15
Zachk18dhillon-v10, welcome19:15
dhillon-v10<Zachk18> a new person, nice meeting you :)19:15
Zachk18dhillon-v10, meaning i'm new or you are...cause i'm not19:16
dhillon-v10<Zachk18> me... sorry about that19:16
Zachk18dhillon-v10, it's cool19:16
dhillon-v10<Zachk18> I was actually waiting for phil, he was going to help me in writing a doc. can you help, I to focus better on my audience19:17
dhillon-v10alright, so I am writing on gnome-display-appearance and do you me to send you the file19:19
Zachk18is this a doc or program19:19
dhillon-v10a doc.19:19
Zachk18a link to the doc page workd19:19
dhillon-v10alright I am sending the file19:20
dhillon-v10<Zachk18> did you get the file, I don't think you have started downloading the file19:22
Zachk18dhillon-v10, i haven't started it yet19:22
dhillon-v10<Zachk18> alright :)19:23
dhillon-v10<Zachk18> it timed out :( I will send again just a sec.19:23
Zachk18i can't accept that19:25
Zachk18won't let me19:25
dhillon-v10<Zachk18> I will upload it somewhere just a sec.19:26
dhillon-v10how about this: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=41603ece246aa8cec79b87b207592a1ce04e75f6e8ebb87119:28
dhillon-v10<Zachk18> I hope it works this time19:30
Zachk18got it. needs some work though19:33
dhillon-v10a lot of work, but I don't know which direction to proceed in19:33
Zachk18well sentence structure is always a good way to start19:34
Zachk18https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuWithFirebirdDatabase that's a doc i'm working on...look at that for an example19:34
dhillon-v10don't worry about that I was just writing something so I can get a baseline established I didn't really care about the structure19:35
missaugustinahi dhillon-v10 and Zachk18 - I think Phil had specific feedback for dhillon-v10 regarding the actual content and focusing on the end-user.19:35
missaugustinaZachk18 there is a lot more to good documentation than sentence structure and word choice.19:35
dhillon-v10<missaugustina> thanks for taking my side ;)19:35
missaugustinadhillon-v10, I haven't looked at your documentation, but if Phil's suggestion was to identify your audience, maybe start out by writing some Personas?19:36
missaugustinahttp://www.usability.gov is a U.S. usability website19:36
missaugustinaUsability is totally focused on identifying the target audience. In technical documentation, we also test usability of the document and define a target audience.19:37
dhillon-v10<missaugustina> he was going to help me out today, but the problem is this: if I make it too basic it doesn't cover the main issues and if too complicated people would get confused...19:37
missaugustinadhillon-v10 Well, a trend I see with new doc folks is to focus too much on the "icing" or the easy to fix stuff. The core stuff is often overlooked ;)19:37
missaugustinadhillon-v10 exactly the connundrum :) I can look at your doc and give some suggestions19:38
missaugustinaUsually the way I work around this is to write up a few personas19:38
dhillon-v10please do, http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=41603ece246aa8cec79b87b207592a1ce04e75f6e8ebb87119:38
missaugustinaPersonas are fictional profiles of typical people who will use your documenation19:38
missaugustinaYou create a "character" or set of "characters" and then write to them. It's just a writing tool that helps you to focus your documentation.19:39
dhillon-v10<missaugustina> phil gave me ideas on writing personas and also some examples but I am still a bit confused about *what* exactly to focus on19:39
dhillon-v10do you want me to  give you some sample questions I found regarding display19:39
missaugustinaOK that makes sense. Usually I search the forums for common questions19:41
missaugustinai just downloaded your doc and I'm looking at it.19:41
dhillon-v10just a sec.19:42
missaugustinaI just skimmed it, but I have some suggestions for better addressing your audience. :)19:42
missaugustinaFirst off, with system documentation, we're writing to the most inexperienced user19:42
missaugustinaDo not assume that the user knows what a graphics card is, for instance19:42
dhillon-v10most commonly people are asking about setting up dual monitoring, the guide for that is about 5 pages, how should I go about including that in19:42
Zachk18missaugustina, where did you download his doc from? the website he posted it to?19:43
missaugustinaDefine everything. It's better to start at that level and then you can remove things if it seems to basic19:43
missaugustinaZachk18, yes19:43
Zachk18missaugustina, ok jut wondering19:43
dhillon-v10<missaugustina> but still it is quite hard for me to condense 5 page information in 2 paragraphs, don't you think so19:44
missaugustinadhillon-v10: Did they say it needs to be 2 paragraphs?19:44
missaugustinadhillon-v10: I would consider sub-sections19:44
missaugustinaBreak things up into steps and then each section represents one step of the procedure19:44
dhillon-v10<missaugustina> not really, I see where you are getting at :)19:44
missaugustinaStart out with an outline.19:45
missaugustina1. What is Dual Monitor19:45
dhillon-v10this makes more sense, because now the front page, will be only a few paragraphs and the rest could be a bit long19:45
dhillon-v10you are smart19:45
missaugustina2. Setting up Dual Monitor with a supported Graphics Card19:46
missaugustinaAnd you can break that down however it makes sense.19:47
missaugustinaBite-sized chunks :)19:47
dhillon-v10alright, so that would be the first step then19:47
dhillon-v10but what about the graphics card issue19:47
missaugustinaThen a third  section to address common graphics card issues19:47
dhillon-v10oh, never mind19:47
missaugustina3. Common Issues with Dual Monitor19:47
missaugustinaSomething like that19:48
missaugustinaSo that would be one section -- Dual Monitors19:48
missaugustinaThe overall doc would be Gnome Display or whatever the title is of the application19:48
dhillon-v10alright thanks for help, I will modify this doc. and can you privately send me your email address if you don't mind, I can send you the doc. when completed19:48
dhillon-v10for review19:48
missaugustinaYou divide it into chapters, Chapter 1. Dual Monitor, Chapter 2. Monitor Resolution, Chapter 3. Xorg.conf or something like that19:49
missaugustinaYeah no problem19:49
missaugustinaFirst step though, I would write out personas.19:49
dhillon-v10thank you very much for help19:49
missaugustinaSecond step, write an  outline of what each section is and what it will cover19:49
missaugustinaDo that at the high level first, then you can move your writing into the appropriate section19:50
dhillon-v10alright, so this would be like a guide rather than a page long document, I was just looking for that19:50
missaugustinaIf you are more comfortable with doing writing and not sure about outline, I can help you figure out the outline19:50
missaugustinayeah, is this going to be in the system docs or wiki?19:50
dhillon-v10please go on :)19:50
dhillon-v10system docs19:51
missaugustinaExcellent! Yes, then do an outline. Look at the networking section to get ideas of how complicated sections have been organized19:51
missaugustinaI just submitted usb-creator and I have a copy on my wiki page if you want to see how I organized that19:52
dhillon-v10that's another good idea, I will look at that19:52
missaugustinaNote that the wiki doc isn't the exact same as what was submitted to the docs (mdke and i did additional edits)19:52
dhillon-v10I see now the networking section is organized just as you said :)19:53
missaugustinaWith the usb-creator I didn't define "personas" but defined "use cases"19:54
missaugustinaThat application is pretty focused and  straightforward19:54
missaugustinaUse Cases are the functionality you would expect a person to perform with the application19:55
dhillon-v10so, the use cases are the personas, I have seen those a lot in other wikis just didn't know what they were19:55
missaugustinaIt comes from Software Engineering19:55
missaugustinaUse Cases are defined functionality at a high level19:55
dhillon-v10well a bit like personas I meant to say19:55
missaugustinaPersonas are profiles of typical users19:55
missaugustinaNope, not at all like personas :)19:55
dhillon-v10okay, never mind :)19:55
dhillon-v10I understand now19:55
missaugustinaPersonas might mention what use cases the person might use19:55
dhillon-v10a bit, I will make the outline and email it to you probably tomorrow19:56
missaugustinaPersonas describe the user, the use case describes the functionality19:56
missaugustinaTake your time :) thanks for contributing :)19:56
dhillon-v10thank you very much for helping me, this is exactly what I was looking for : I wish I was just as smart :)19:57
missaugustinaLOL its not about being smart.19:57
missaugustinaJust about getting the education/training/experience :)19:57
missaugustinaI've been working in the tech industry for 10+ years.19:57
dhillon-v10well that could be true, I am in high school so that's probably why19:58
missaugustinaUse Cases and other terms like that come from Software Engineering which would be covered in a software engineering course.19:58
missaugustinaPersonas come from usability which would be covered in a Usability or User Interace Design course.19:59
missaugustinaIf you were studying anything computer related in college :)19:59
dhillon-v10that makes sense too, when I go to college I will probably learn those19:59
missaugustinaYep, if it's a good program. And you'll hear them if you work in the industry... a lot. :D19:59
missaugustinaAnyways good luck and feel free to email me your stuff. I'm more than happy to help you out. Thanks!20:00
dhillon-v10alright, thanks again, and bye20:00
hollmanTodos cordialmente invitados a charla de reporte de bugs y traducciones al proyecto Ubuntu en #ubuntu-classroom-es20:32
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mdkeevening all21:48
missaugustinaGood evening mdke21:54
ZachieKmdke, hey21:58
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mdkeGwaihir: wow, usb-creator already translated into Italian, impressive!22:29
mdkeand spanish22:29
Gwaihirthe global jam works!22:29
mdkeyeah, definitely22:30
Gwaihirheading to be... ciao!22:33

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