| Zachk18 | Madpilot, welcome | 01:37 |
|---|---|---|
| Madpilot | hi Zachk18 | 01:37 |
| Zachk18 | so....been around long? | 01:42 |
| Madpilot | a long time, actually, just not active in docs the last few years | 01:44 |
| Madpilot | I helped to the massive rewrite of the 6.06 Dapper help files, then kind of drifted out of docwork | 01:44 |
| Madpilot | these days I'm so far out of the loop I basically loiter here out of habit :) | 01:49 |
| === Zachk18 is now known as Sub_Zero | ||
| === Sub_Zero is now known as Zachk18 | ||
| === sc2 is now known as starcraftman | ||
| hollman | hello * | 18:43 |
| Zachk18 | hello | 18:46 |
| Zachk18 | welcome | 18:46 |
| cumulus007 | Hi, as an Ubuntu translator, I noticed the presence of the Ubuntu Server Guide as a translatable package | 19:01 |
| cumulus007 | I have a question regarding this: where are translated versions of this guide to be found? | 19:01 |
| hollman | Zachk18, cumulus007 I have a question, I'm from Bogota, Colombia, I'm interesting to be part of the oficial documentation team, | 19:03 |
| hollman | i like to translate the oficial documetatino to spanish, this is possible ? | 19:04 |
| cumulus007 | hollman, I'm sorry, I can't help you with that, I'm a translator | 19:04 |
| cumulus007 | You will have to contact the Spanish translation team, which can be found on Launchpad | 19:04 |
| Zachk18 | and i can't help except point you in the right direction | 19:05 |
| Zachk18 | which is where you already | 19:05 |
| hollman | 4 exapmple | 19:06 |
| hollman | we have https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Postfix | 19:06 |
| hollman | is possible translate this ? where can i put my contributions ? | 19:07 |
| Zachk18 | hollman, if you are looking to join the doc team go here. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Zachk18 plenty of links to get you started | 19:07 |
| Rocket2DMn | hollman, that is a community documenation wiki page | 19:08 |
| Rocket2DMn | hollman, it can be translated, but anybody can update the page at any time, unlike the system docs | 19:08 |
| Rocket2DMn | hollman, I don't know where the spanish team keeps wiki documentation | 19:08 |
| hollman | Rocket2DMn, so, I have to be part of the oficial documentation wiki ? | 19:10 |
| Rocket2DMn | hollman, no, it depends on what you want to translate | 19:10 |
| Rocket2DMn | unfortunately I don't know much about doing translations on Launchpad, but the ones on LP would be for official system docs and other programs | 19:11 |
| hollman | Rocket2DMn, I want to translate the officia documentation wiki to spanish | 19:11 |
| Rocket2DMn | anything at https://help.ubuntu.com/community is part of the Community Doc wiki, which anybody can edit | 19:11 |
| Rocket2DMn | hollman, system docs are made available in html format at https://help.ubuntu.com/ (note there is no /community) - this isn't a wiki area | 19:12 |
| hollman | Rocket2DMn, ok, but where can i put mi traslation ? for example in spanish | 19:12 |
| Rocket2DMn | hollman, let me see if i can find the resource for you | 19:13 |
| Rocket2DMn | here we go - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation | 19:13 |
| hollman | Rocket2DMn, , thank you very much | 19:13 |
| Rocket2DMn | no problem | 19:13 |
| dhillon-v10 | hello | 19:15 |
| dhillon-v10 | how is everyone doing | 19:15 |
| Zachk18 | dhillon-v10, good | 19:15 |
| Zachk18 | dhillon-v10, welcome | 19:15 |
| dhillon-v10 | <Zachk18> a new person, nice meeting you :) | 19:15 |
| Zachk18 | dhillon-v10, meaning i'm new or you are...cause i'm not | 19:16 |
| dhillon-v10 | <Zachk18> me... sorry about that | 19:16 |
| Zachk18 | dhillon-v10, it's cool | 19:16 |
| dhillon-v10 | <Zachk18> I was actually waiting for phil, he was going to help me in writing a doc. can you help, I to focus better on my audience | 19:17 |
| Zachk18 | sure | 19:17 |
| dhillon-v10 | alright, so I am writing on gnome-display-appearance and do you me to send you the file | 19:19 |
| Zachk18 | is this a doc or program | 19:19 |
| dhillon-v10 | a doc. | 19:19 |
| Zachk18 | ok | 19:19 |
| Zachk18 | a link to the doc page workd | 19:19 |
| dhillon-v10 | alright I am sending the file | 19:20 |
| dhillon-v10 | <Zachk18> did you get the file, I don't think you have started downloading the file | 19:22 |
| Zachk18 | dhillon-v10, i haven't started it yet | 19:22 |
| dhillon-v10 | <Zachk18> alright :) | 19:23 |
| dhillon-v10 | <Zachk18> it timed out :( I will send again just a sec. | 19:23 |
| Zachk18 | i can't accept that | 19:25 |
| Zachk18 | won't let me | 19:25 |
| dhillon-v10 | <Zachk18> I will upload it somewhere just a sec. | 19:26 |
| dhillon-v10 | how about this: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=41603ece246aa8cec79b87b207592a1ce04e75f6e8ebb871 | 19:28 |
| dhillon-v10 | <Zachk18> I hope it works this time | 19:30 |
| Zachk18 | got it. needs some work though | 19:33 |
| dhillon-v10 | a lot of work, but I don't know which direction to proceed in | 19:33 |
| Zachk18 | well sentence structure is always a good way to start | 19:34 |
| Zachk18 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuWithFirebirdDatabase that's a doc i'm working on...look at that for an example | 19:34 |
| Zachk18 | bbiab | 19:34 |
| dhillon-v10 | don't worry about that I was just writing something so I can get a baseline established I didn't really care about the structure | 19:35 |
| missaugustina | hi dhillon-v10 and Zachk18 - I think Phil had specific feedback for dhillon-v10 regarding the actual content and focusing on the end-user. | 19:35 |
| missaugustina | Zachk18 there is a lot more to good documentation than sentence structure and word choice. | 19:35 |
| dhillon-v10 | <missaugustina> thanks for taking my side ;) | 19:35 |
| missaugustina | dhillon-v10, I haven't looked at your documentation, but if Phil's suggestion was to identify your audience, maybe start out by writing some Personas? | 19:36 |
| missaugustina | http://www.usability.gov is a U.S. usability website | 19:36 |
| missaugustina | Usability is totally focused on identifying the target audience. In technical documentation, we also test usability of the document and define a target audience. | 19:37 |
| dhillon-v10 | <missaugustina> he was going to help me out today, but the problem is this: if I make it too basic it doesn't cover the main issues and if too complicated people would get confused... | 19:37 |
| missaugustina | dhillon-v10 Well, a trend I see with new doc folks is to focus too much on the "icing" or the easy to fix stuff. The core stuff is often overlooked ;) | 19:37 |
| missaugustina | dhillon-v10 exactly the connundrum :) I can look at your doc and give some suggestions | 19:38 |
| missaugustina | Usually the way I work around this is to write up a few personas | 19:38 |
| dhillon-v10 | please do, http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=41603ece246aa8cec79b87b207592a1ce04e75f6e8ebb871 | 19:38 |
| missaugustina | Personas are fictional profiles of typical people who will use your documenation | 19:38 |
| missaugustina | You create a "character" or set of "characters" and then write to them. It's just a writing tool that helps you to focus your documentation. | 19:39 |
| dhillon-v10 | <missaugustina> phil gave me ideas on writing personas and also some examples but I am still a bit confused about *what* exactly to focus on | 19:39 |
| dhillon-v10 | do you want me to give you some sample questions I found regarding display | 19:39 |
| missaugustina | OK that makes sense. Usually I search the forums for common questions | 19:41 |
| missaugustina | Sure! | 19:41 |
| missaugustina | i just downloaded your doc and I'm looking at it. | 19:41 |
| dhillon-v10 | just a sec. | 19:42 |
| missaugustina | I just skimmed it, but I have some suggestions for better addressing your audience. :) | 19:42 |
| missaugustina | First off, with system documentation, we're writing to the most inexperienced user | 19:42 |
| missaugustina | Do not assume that the user knows what a graphics card is, for instance | 19:42 |
| dhillon-v10 | most commonly people are asking about setting up dual monitoring, the guide for that is about 5 pages, how should I go about including that in | 19:42 |
| Zachk18 | missaugustina, where did you download his doc from? the website he posted it to? | 19:43 |
| missaugustina | Define everything. It's better to start at that level and then you can remove things if it seems to basic | 19:43 |
| missaugustina | Zachk18, yes | 19:43 |
| Zachk18 | missaugustina, ok jut wondering | 19:43 |
| dhillon-v10 | <missaugustina> but still it is quite hard for me to condense 5 page information in 2 paragraphs, don't you think so | 19:44 |
| missaugustina | dhillon-v10: Did they say it needs to be 2 paragraphs? | 19:44 |
| missaugustina | dhillon-v10: I would consider sub-sections | 19:44 |
| missaugustina | Break things up into steps and then each section represents one step of the procedure | 19:44 |
| dhillon-v10 | <missaugustina> not really, I see where you are getting at :) | 19:44 |
| missaugustina | Start out with an outline. | 19:45 |
| missaugustina | 1. What is Dual Monitor | 19:45 |
| dhillon-v10 | this makes more sense, because now the front page, will be only a few paragraphs and the rest could be a bit long | 19:45 |
| dhillon-v10 | you are smart | 19:45 |
| missaugustina | 2. Setting up Dual Monitor with a supported Graphics Card | 19:46 |
| missaugustina | And you can break that down however it makes sense. | 19:47 |
| missaugustina | Bite-sized chunks :) | 19:47 |
| dhillon-v10 | alright, so that would be the first step then | 19:47 |
| dhillon-v10 | but what about the graphics card issue | 19:47 |
| missaugustina | Then a third section to address common graphics card issues | 19:47 |
| dhillon-v10 | oh, never mind | 19:47 |
| missaugustina | 3. Common Issues with Dual Monitor | 19:47 |
| missaugustina | Something like that | 19:48 |
| missaugustina | So that would be one section -- Dual Monitors | 19:48 |
| missaugustina | The overall doc would be Gnome Display or whatever the title is of the application | 19:48 |
| dhillon-v10 | alright thanks for help, I will modify this doc. and can you privately send me your email address if you don't mind, I can send you the doc. when completed | 19:48 |
| dhillon-v10 | for review | 19:48 |
| missaugustina | You divide it into chapters, Chapter 1. Dual Monitor, Chapter 2. Monitor Resolution, Chapter 3. Xorg.conf or something like that | 19:49 |
| missaugustina | Yeah no problem | 19:49 |
| missaugustina | First step though, I would write out personas. | 19:49 |
| dhillon-v10 | thank you very much for help | 19:49 |
| missaugustina | Second step, write an outline of what each section is and what it will cover | 19:49 |
| missaugustina | Do that at the high level first, then you can move your writing into the appropriate section | 19:50 |
| dhillon-v10 | alright, so this would be like a guide rather than a page long document, I was just looking for that | 19:50 |
| missaugustina | If you are more comfortable with doing writing and not sure about outline, I can help you figure out the outline | 19:50 |
| missaugustina | yeah, is this going to be in the system docs or wiki? | 19:50 |
| dhillon-v10 | please go on :) | 19:50 |
| dhillon-v10 | system docs | 19:51 |
| missaugustina | Excellent! Yes, then do an outline. Look at the networking section to get ideas of how complicated sections have been organized | 19:51 |
| missaugustina | I just submitted usb-creator and I have a copy on my wiki page if you want to see how I organized that | 19:52 |
| dhillon-v10 | that's another good idea, I will look at that | 19:52 |
| missaugustina | Note that the wiki doc isn't the exact same as what was submitted to the docs (mdke and i did additional edits) | 19:52 |
| dhillon-v10 | I see now the networking section is organized just as you said :) | 19:53 |
| missaugustina | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AugustinaBlair/MakeUsbStartupDraft | 19:53 |
| missaugustina | With the usb-creator I didn't define "personas" but defined "use cases" | 19:54 |
| missaugustina | That application is pretty focused and straightforward | 19:54 |
| missaugustina | Use Cases are the functionality you would expect a person to perform with the application | 19:55 |
| dhillon-v10 | so, the use cases are the personas, I have seen those a lot in other wikis just didn't know what they were | 19:55 |
| missaugustina | It comes from Software Engineering | 19:55 |
| missaugustina | No | 19:55 |
| missaugustina | Use Cases are defined functionality at a high level | 19:55 |
| dhillon-v10 | well a bit like personas I meant to say | 19:55 |
| missaugustina | Personas are profiles of typical users | 19:55 |
| missaugustina | Nope, not at all like personas :) | 19:55 |
| dhillon-v10 | okay, never mind :) | 19:55 |
| dhillon-v10 | I understand now | 19:55 |
| missaugustina | Personas might mention what use cases the person might use | 19:55 |
| dhillon-v10 | a bit, I will make the outline and email it to you probably tomorrow | 19:56 |
| missaugustina | Personas describe the user, the use case describes the functionality | 19:56 |
| missaugustina | Take your time :) thanks for contributing :) | 19:56 |
| dhillon-v10 | thank you very much for helping me, this is exactly what I was looking for : I wish I was just as smart :) | 19:57 |
| missaugustina | LOL its not about being smart. | 19:57 |
| missaugustina | Just about getting the education/training/experience :) | 19:57 |
| missaugustina | I've been working in the tech industry for 10+ years. | 19:57 |
| dhillon-v10 | well that could be true, I am in high school so that's probably why | 19:58 |
| missaugustina | Use Cases and other terms like that come from Software Engineering which would be covered in a software engineering course. | 19:58 |
| missaugustina | Personas come from usability which would be covered in a Usability or User Interace Design course. | 19:59 |
| missaugustina | If you were studying anything computer related in college :) | 19:59 |
| dhillon-v10 | that makes sense too, when I go to college I will probably learn those | 19:59 |
| missaugustina | Yep, if it's a good program. And you'll hear them if you work in the industry... a lot. :D | 19:59 |
| missaugustina | Anyways good luck and feel free to email me your stuff. I'm more than happy to help you out. Thanks! | 20:00 |
| dhillon-v10 | alright, thanks again, and bye | 20:00 |
| hollman | Todos cordialmente invitados a charla de reporte de bugs y traducciones al proyecto Ubuntu en #ubuntu-classroom-es | 20:32 |
| === Zachk18 is now known as Zach | ||
| === Zach is now known as Guest42604 | ||
| === Guest42604 is now known as Zachie | ||
| === Zachie is now known as ZachieK | ||
| === Zachk18 is now known as ZachieK | ||
| mdke | evening all | 21:48 |
| missaugustina | Good evening mdke | 21:54 |
| ZachieK | mdke, hey | 21:58 |
| === ZachieK is now known as Zachk18 | ||
| === hollman_ is now known as hollman | ||
| mdke | Gwaihir: wow, usb-creator already translated into Italian, impressive! | 22:29 |
| mdke | and spanish | 22:29 |
| Gwaihir | :) | 22:29 |
| Gwaihir | the global jam works! | 22:29 |
| mdke | yeah, definitely | 22:30 |
| Gwaihir | heading to be... ciao! | 22:33 |
| Gwaihir | s/be/bed | 22:33 |
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