[01:37] Madpilot, welcome [01:37] hi Zachk18 [01:42] so....been around long? [01:44] a long time, actually, just not active in docs the last few years [01:44] I helped to the massive rewrite of the 6.06 Dapper help files, then kind of drifted out of docwork [01:49] these days I'm so far out of the loop I basically loiter here out of habit :) === Zachk18 is now known as Sub_Zero === Sub_Zero is now known as Zachk18 === sc2 is now known as starcraftman [18:43] hello * [18:46] hello [18:46] welcome [19:01] Hi, as an Ubuntu translator, I noticed the presence of the Ubuntu Server Guide as a translatable package [19:01] I have a question regarding this: where are translated versions of this guide to be found? [19:03] Zachk18, cumulus007 I have a question, I'm from Bogota, Colombia, I'm interesting to be part of the oficial documentation team, [19:04] i like to translate the oficial documetatino to spanish, this is possible ? [19:04] hollman, I'm sorry, I can't help you with that, I'm a translator [19:04] You will have to contact the Spanish translation team, which can be found on Launchpad [19:05] and i can't help except point you in the right direction [19:05] which is where you already [19:06] 4 exapmple [19:06] we have https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Postfix [19:07] is possible translate this ? where can i put my contributions ? [19:07] hollman, if you are looking to join the doc team go here. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Zachk18 plenty of links to get you started [19:08] hollman, that is a community documenation wiki page [19:08] hollman, it can be translated, but anybody can update the page at any time, unlike the system docs [19:08] hollman, I don't know where the spanish team keeps wiki documentation [19:10] Rocket2DMn, so, I have to be part of the oficial documentation wiki ? [19:10] hollman, no, it depends on what you want to translate [19:11] unfortunately I don't know much about doing translations on Launchpad, but the ones on LP would be for official system docs and other programs [19:11] Rocket2DMn, I want to translate the officia documentation wiki to spanish [19:11] anything at https://help.ubuntu.com/community is part of the Community Doc wiki, which anybody can edit [19:12] hollman, system docs are made available in html format at https://help.ubuntu.com/ (note there is no /community) - this isn't a wiki area [19:12] Rocket2DMn, ok, but where can i put mi traslation ? for example in spanish [19:13] hollman, let me see if i can find the resource for you [19:13] here we go - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation [19:13] Rocket2DMn, , thank you very much [19:13] no problem [19:15] hello [19:15] how is everyone doing [19:15] dhillon-v10, good [19:15] dhillon-v10, welcome [19:15] a new person, nice meeting you :) [19:16] dhillon-v10, meaning i'm new or you are...cause i'm not [19:16] me... sorry about that [19:16] dhillon-v10, it's cool [19:17] I was actually waiting for phil, he was going to help me in writing a doc. can you help, I to focus better on my audience [19:17] sure [19:19] alright, so I am writing on gnome-display-appearance and do you me to send you the file [19:19] is this a doc or program [19:19] a doc. [19:19] ok [19:19] a link to the doc page workd [19:20] alright I am sending the file [19:22] did you get the file, I don't think you have started downloading the file [19:22] dhillon-v10, i haven't started it yet [19:23] alright :) [19:23] it timed out :( I will send again just a sec. [19:25] i can't accept that [19:25] won't let me [19:26] I will upload it somewhere just a sec. [19:28] how about this: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=41603ece246aa8cec79b87b207592a1ce04e75f6e8ebb871 [19:30] I hope it works this time [19:33] got it. needs some work though [19:33] a lot of work, but I don't know which direction to proceed in [19:34] well sentence structure is always a good way to start [19:34] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuWithFirebirdDatabase that's a doc i'm working on...look at that for an example [19:34] bbiab [19:35] don't worry about that I was just writing something so I can get a baseline established I didn't really care about the structure [19:35] hi dhillon-v10 and Zachk18 - I think Phil had specific feedback for dhillon-v10 regarding the actual content and focusing on the end-user. [19:35] Zachk18 there is a lot more to good documentation than sentence structure and word choice. [19:35] thanks for taking my side ;) [19:36] dhillon-v10, I haven't looked at your documentation, but if Phil's suggestion was to identify your audience, maybe start out by writing some Personas? [19:36] http://www.usability.gov is a U.S. usability website [19:37] Usability is totally focused on identifying the target audience. In technical documentation, we also test usability of the document and define a target audience. [19:37] he was going to help me out today, but the problem is this: if I make it too basic it doesn't cover the main issues and if too complicated people would get confused... [19:37] dhillon-v10 Well, a trend I see with new doc folks is to focus too much on the "icing" or the easy to fix stuff. The core stuff is often overlooked ;) [19:38] dhillon-v10 exactly the connundrum :) I can look at your doc and give some suggestions [19:38] Usually the way I work around this is to write up a few personas [19:38] please do, http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=41603ece246aa8cec79b87b207592a1ce04e75f6e8ebb871 [19:38] Personas are fictional profiles of typical people who will use your documenation [19:39] You create a "character" or set of "characters" and then write to them. It's just a writing tool that helps you to focus your documentation. [19:39] phil gave me ideas on writing personas and also some examples but I am still a bit confused about *what* exactly to focus on [19:39] do you want me to give you some sample questions I found regarding display [19:41] OK that makes sense. Usually I search the forums for common questions [19:41] Sure! [19:41] i just downloaded your doc and I'm looking at it. [19:42] just a sec. [19:42] I just skimmed it, but I have some suggestions for better addressing your audience. :) [19:42] First off, with system documentation, we're writing to the most inexperienced user [19:42] Do not assume that the user knows what a graphics card is, for instance [19:42] most commonly people are asking about setting up dual monitoring, the guide for that is about 5 pages, how should I go about including that in [19:43] missaugustina, where did you download his doc from? the website he posted it to? [19:43] Define everything. It's better to start at that level and then you can remove things if it seems to basic [19:43] Zachk18, yes [19:43] missaugustina, ok jut wondering [19:44] but still it is quite hard for me to condense 5 page information in 2 paragraphs, don't you think so [19:44] dhillon-v10: Did they say it needs to be 2 paragraphs? [19:44] dhillon-v10: I would consider sub-sections [19:44] Break things up into steps and then each section represents one step of the procedure [19:44] not really, I see where you are getting at :) [19:45] Start out with an outline. [19:45] 1. What is Dual Monitor [19:45] this makes more sense, because now the front page, will be only a few paragraphs and the rest could be a bit long [19:45] you are smart [19:46] 2. Setting up Dual Monitor with a supported Graphics Card [19:47] And you can break that down however it makes sense. [19:47] Bite-sized chunks :) [19:47] alright, so that would be the first step then [19:47] but what about the graphics card issue [19:47] Then a third section to address common graphics card issues [19:47] oh, never mind [19:47] 3. Common Issues with Dual Monitor [19:48] Something like that [19:48] So that would be one section -- Dual Monitors [19:48] The overall doc would be Gnome Display or whatever the title is of the application [19:48] alright thanks for help, I will modify this doc. and can you privately send me your email address if you don't mind, I can send you the doc. when completed [19:48] for review [19:49] You divide it into chapters, Chapter 1. Dual Monitor, Chapter 2. Monitor Resolution, Chapter 3. Xorg.conf or something like that [19:49] Yeah no problem [19:49] First step though, I would write out personas. [19:49] thank you very much for help [19:49] Second step, write an outline of what each section is and what it will cover [19:50] Do that at the high level first, then you can move your writing into the appropriate section [19:50] alright, so this would be like a guide rather than a page long document, I was just looking for that [19:50] If you are more comfortable with doing writing and not sure about outline, I can help you figure out the outline [19:50] yeah, is this going to be in the system docs or wiki? [19:50] please go on :) [19:51] system docs [19:51] Excellent! Yes, then do an outline. Look at the networking section to get ideas of how complicated sections have been organized [19:52] I just submitted usb-creator and I have a copy on my wiki page if you want to see how I organized that [19:52] that's another good idea, I will look at that [19:52] Note that the wiki doc isn't the exact same as what was submitted to the docs (mdke and i did additional edits) [19:53] I see now the networking section is organized just as you said :) [19:53] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AugustinaBlair/MakeUsbStartupDraft [19:54] With the usb-creator I didn't define "personas" but defined "use cases" [19:54] That application is pretty focused and straightforward [19:55] Use Cases are the functionality you would expect a person to perform with the application [19:55] so, the use cases are the personas, I have seen those a lot in other wikis just didn't know what they were [19:55] It comes from Software Engineering [19:55] No [19:55] Use Cases are defined functionality at a high level [19:55] well a bit like personas I meant to say [19:55] Personas are profiles of typical users [19:55] Nope, not at all like personas :) [19:55] okay, never mind :) [19:55] I understand now [19:55] Personas might mention what use cases the person might use [19:56] a bit, I will make the outline and email it to you probably tomorrow [19:56] Personas describe the user, the use case describes the functionality [19:56] Take your time :) thanks for contributing :) [19:57] thank you very much for helping me, this is exactly what I was looking for : I wish I was just as smart :) [19:57] LOL its not about being smart. [19:57] Just about getting the education/training/experience :) [19:57] I've been working in the tech industry for 10+ years. [19:58] well that could be true, I am in high school so that's probably why [19:58] Use Cases and other terms like that come from Software Engineering which would be covered in a software engineering course. [19:59] Personas come from usability which would be covered in a Usability or User Interace Design course. [19:59] If you were studying anything computer related in college :) [19:59] that makes sense too, when I go to college I will probably learn those [19:59] Yep, if it's a good program. And you'll hear them if you work in the industry... a lot. :D [20:00] Anyways good luck and feel free to email me your stuff. I'm more than happy to help you out. Thanks! [20:00] alright, thanks again, and bye [20:32] Todos cordialmente invitados a charla de reporte de bugs y traducciones al proyecto Ubuntu en #ubuntu-classroom-es === Zachk18 is now known as Zach === Zach is now known as Guest42604 === Guest42604 is now known as Zachie === Zachie is now known as ZachieK === Zachk18 is now known as ZachieK [21:48] evening all [21:54] Good evening mdke [21:58] mdke, hey === ZachieK is now known as Zachk18 === hollman_ is now known as hollman [22:29] Gwaihir: wow, usb-creator already translated into Italian, impressive! [22:29] and spanish [22:29] :) [22:29] the global jam works! [22:30] yeah, definitely [22:33] heading to be... ciao! [22:33] s/be/bed