[00:00] <Xgates> yofel does it need to have Modaliases for the Broadcom 802.11 Linux STA driver installed?
[00:00] <Arv3n> bjsnider, so.. my monitor's going bad? :S
[00:00] <Amaranth> yofel: Nope, the package works fine here (macbook)
[00:00] <bjsnider> Arv3n, it was probably always like that
[00:00] <Amaranth> oh, wrong thing
[00:00] <Arv3n> no, it actually wasnt even like this on alpha 6
[00:00] <Amaranth> hehe
[00:00] <Arv3n> bjsnider, alpha 6 worked fine. beta doesnt.
[00:01] <Xgates> Amaranth: you're running a macbook pro?
[00:01]  * Amaranth stabs nvidia
[00:01] <Amaranth> Xgates: nah, MacBook4,1
[00:01] <Amaranth> No nvidia for me!
[00:01]  * Amaranth dances
[00:01] <penguin42> Amaranth: Compiz does seem to work on my 945G
[00:01] <Xgates> ahh ok but you also have the broadcom 4322 wireless on it?
[00:01] <bjsnider> Amaranth, doesn't that have the 9400 m chip?
[00:01] <Amaranth> Xgates: 02:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4328 802.11a/b/g/n (rev 03)
[00:02] <Amaranth> bjsnider: Nope, that's the MacBook5,1
[00:02] <Xgates> ok I have 4322
[00:02] <Amaranth> bjsnider: I have the last one before nvidia
[00:02] <Xgates> Amaranth: did you also install ---> Modaliases for the Broadcom 802.11 Linux STA driver ?
[00:02] <bjsnider> well, you'd better buy the 5,1
[00:02] <methril_home> anyone have any advice to check an SSD ext3 fs?
[00:02] <beck-and-call> Are there any known regressions involving Intel graphics on Karmic?  I just upgraded to the beta release, and suddenly Xorg is eating all the CPU it can get its hands on.
[00:02] <Amaranth> bjsnider: Nope, my next laptop won't be a mac because they switched to nvidia
[00:02] <penguin42> beck-and-call: Seems OK to me on a 945G intel
[00:03] <Amaranth> beck-and-call: Yes, reboot a couple times
[00:03] <NoelJB> Amaranth, what's wrong with nvidia?  don't you want good graphics?
[00:03] <yofel> Amaranth: I don't have any issues with my nvidia cards here
[00:03] <Xgates> Amaranth: did you also install ---> Modaliases for the Broadcom 802.11 Linux STA driver ?
[00:03] <Amaranth> race condition between the loading of intel_agp and i915
[00:03] <DexterF> hi
[00:03] <Arv3n> Amaranth, i just noticed in top i get 100% cpu usage as well with Xorg.. and a bad resolution.
[00:03] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: Ugh.
[00:03] <Amaranth> NoelJB, yofel: I work on compiz. I see all the nvidia stupidity
[00:03] <bjsnider> Amaranth, why do you hate good graphics?
[00:03] <yofel> Amaranth: oh yeah, true ^^
[00:03] <Amaranth> We recently hit a bug in the nvidia driver I reported 3 years ago
[00:04] <yofel> lol
[00:04] <Amaranth> One that is easy to reproduce and a rather bad problem
[00:04] <penguin42> Amaranth: I am seeing one odd thing, and I'm not sure if it's compiz - but the text in the tabs on my gnome terminals and on the menus isn't antialiased any more
[00:04] <maxflax> NoelJB - well I figured out that it is detecting that my wifi is turned off by the kill switch which its not - but I don't know how to fix that
[00:04] <bjsnider> yeah, there are no bugs in the radeon/fglrx/intel drivers
[00:04] <Xgates> Amaranth: if it's not to much trouble can you please answer my question ? :)
[00:04] <penguin42> no, make that menu bar
[00:04] <DexterF> hi
[00:04] <NoelJB> maxflax, I'd have to check, but I believe that is reported to nm/mm.
[00:04] <Amaranth> bjsnider: Are there "your system looks exploded" bugs from 3 years ago in those drivers?
[00:04] <yofel> hi DexterF
[00:04] <Amaranth> bjsnider: Those drivers also don't make compiz crash on exit
[00:05] <DexterF> are there kde3 packages and installation/upgrade instructions for 9.10 yet?
[00:05] <Amaranth> bjsnider: And they don't screw up when you run out of VRAM
[00:05] <bjsnider> don't they?
[00:05] <rrva> penguin42: i have ctrl-w problems
[00:05] <Xgates> hello am I still in the channel anyone see me?
[00:05] <yofel> DexterF: not in the ubuntu repositories, maybe somebody has a ppa for it?
[00:05] <Amaranth> bjsnider: nvidia now has the buggiest drivers for linux
[00:05] <yofel> Xgates: yep ;)
[00:05] <penguin42> Xgates: Nope, can't see you
[00:05] <DexterF> ppwhat?
[00:05] <rrva> penguin42: also with chromium latest ppa, and alt-left also double-fires
[00:05] <penguin42> rrva: Hmm OK, I wonder where those bugs are supposed to be reported?
[00:06] <DexterF> Amaranth: how's that?
[00:06] <maxflax> NoelJB - ok, tried the rfkill command and that says that the Wireless land is Hard blocket = Yes
[00:06] <bjsnider> Amaranth, that's completely absurd
[00:06] <Xgates> ok I thought maybe I disconnected I GUESS Amaranth is just ignoring me :(
[00:06] <KDM> Hey guys
[00:06] <Amaranth> Xgates: I don't have an answer
[00:06] <Amaranth> Xgates: I installed karmic alpha 5 and clicked a button and my wireless worked
[00:06] <yofel> hi KDM
[00:06] <KDM> My Karmic Koala beta isn't showing any packages in Synaptic except ones that are already installed
[00:06] <maxflax> NoelJB - So if I can disable that rfkill detection I can get my wifi up and running again hopefully
[00:06] <KDM> does anyone know how to fix this?
[00:07] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: Am I going to need to reboot several times every time I notice Xorg eating 100% CPU, or is this one-time-only?  And is there anything I can do to force correct loading order?
[00:07] <Xgates> Amaranth: you're not on the beta right now?
[00:07] <iceroot> KDM: #ubuntu+1
[00:07] <Amaranth> Xgates: I am
[00:07] <rrva> penguin42: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/list ?
[00:07] <yofel> KDM: did you make sure in software sources that you don't only have the cd enabled?
[00:07] <yofel> iceroot: this IS ubuntu+1
[00:07] <Amaranth> Xgates: I've been upgrading since I did a clean install at alpha 5 time (redid my partitioning)
[00:07] <GENT> will the final karmic koala  be useing the Linux 2.6.21 kernel ?
[00:07] <Amaranth> GENT: yes
[00:07] <bjsnider> GENT, no
[00:07] <Xgates> Amaranth: ok can you please open Synaptic and type 'Broadcom' and tell if you see 'Modaliases for the Broadcom 802.11 Linux STA' installed?
[00:07] <Amaranth> err, 2.6.31
[00:07] <yofel> GENT: 2.6.31 yes
[00:07] <KDM> only CD enabled? O_o
[00:07] <iceroot> yofel: :( i was wndering about that many karmic questions... i am sorry, though i am at #ubuntu
[00:08] <NoelJB> maxflax, Oh!  I wonder if your device is blacklisted for some reason!
[00:08] <Amaranth> Xgates: The -modaliases files are broadcom, nvidia, and fglrx are all installed by default
[00:08] <Xgates> ok thank
[00:08] <Xgates> s
[00:08] <Amaranth> Xgates: I just remember that :P
[00:08] <GENT> so this will be included right ? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=651&num=1
[00:08] <Xgates> well let me reboot this thing and see if I can get wireless going
[00:09] <NoelJB> maxflax, which wireless chip do you have?  I seem to recall seeing something being blacklisted in a recent changelog.
[00:09] <bjsnider> GENT, it already _is_ included
[00:09] <yofel> KDM: only thing I can think of where that would happen
[00:09] <Amaranth> GENT: Since a couple years ago, yes.
[00:09] <penguin42> rrva: OK, I'll report it on there
[00:09] <maxflax> NoelJB - Intel .. must check modell
[00:09] <Amaranth> GENT: We've had that since feisty or gutsy
[00:10] <GENT> oh ok
[00:10] <Amaranth> beck-and-call: Every time it happens
[00:10] <GENT> nice to know that we are ahead of the game
[00:10] <Amaranth> GENT: Are you kidding? Every distro has had that for 2 years
[00:11] <KDM> I cant believe it was as simple as the boxes not being checked T_T
[00:11] <rrva> penguin42: test alt-left, alt-right
[00:11] <methril_home> any other utility for checking SDD drives?
[00:11] <KDM> thank you
[00:11] <methril_home> only fsck?
[00:11] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: Is the F/OSS (or Catalyst) R[6,7]xx code ready for use yet?  I have switchable graphics, and I could just use that instead?
[00:11] <penguin42> rrva: Hmm it seems odd as well
[00:11] <maxflax> NoelJB - Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 4965 AG or AGN
[00:11] <rrva> le
[00:11] <yofel> KDM: np, I'm curious though how that happened...
[00:11] <GENT> Amaranth, sorry im sill new here :3
[00:11] <maxflax> NoelJB - is what lspci says anyway
[00:12] <Amaranth> beck-and-call: We have a catalyst driver for karmic
[00:12] <rrva> penguin42: yes, it Ã*might* skiput not always
[00:12] <Amaranth> beck-and-call: The intel bug should be fixed before final, can't really say when beyond that though
[00:12] <Amaranth> People keep reporting that bug against compiz though
[00:12] <penguin42> rrva: Also backspace is doing something odd
[00:12] <beck-and-call> methril_home: If you mean SSD, no, there's nothing else, unless you are or know an engineer who can speak directly to your SSD's controller.
[00:12] <Amaranth> They don't notice their CPU at 100% trying to keep up with Xorg, they just notice their cube went away
[00:12] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: *Should* I use the AMD core instead?
[00:13] <NoelJB> maxflax, I have Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 4965 AG or AGN [Kedron] Network Connection [8086:4230] (rev 61)
[00:13] <Amaranth> beck-and-call: Well, it'll use more power
[00:13] <NoelJB> And it is working.
[00:13] <shentino> woohoo
[00:13] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: I'll live.  One maxed core is already throwing huge amounts of heat.
[00:13]  * shentino is now on karmic beta
[00:13] <adz21c> hi, amarok-common 2.2.0-0ubuntu1 seems to be missing. Anyone know where I can get it?
[00:13] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: And even mostly-working 3D code should beat the snot out of an Intel 3D decelerator.
[00:13] <thiebaude> beck-and-call, im using amd dual core
[00:14] <NoelJB> maxflax, I run rfkill list and everything is "no"
[00:14] <maxflax> NoelJB - looks like my card.. got an Dell laptop
[00:14] <methril_home> beck-and-call, i'm an engineer, i only need datasheets ;)
[00:15] <penguin42> rrva: Issue 23756
[00:15] <maxflax> NoelJB - very strange.. the wifi is up and I can use apps like kismet to scan for APs .. but rfkill says Blocked
[00:15] <ActionParsnip> adz21c: amd64 or i686?
[00:15] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: I just want to be clear on whether the AMD case is overall better for performance and bugginess, whether the radeon driver is working for > R6xx cores, if I should use the Cat drivers instead, and if so which package I should be force-installing for Cat. :D
[00:16] <Amaranth> adz21c: mirror broken/out-of-date probably
[00:16] <beck-and-call> thiebaude: Not that AMD.  The side of the AMD house that makes GPU cores.  They still call themselves "ATi" occasionally.
[00:16] <thiebaude> beck-and-call, ahh ok my bad,lol
[00:16] <maxflax> NoelJB - But what I have done is changes in BIOS how the kill switch work.. I set it to only control the blutooth
[00:16] <adz21c> ActionParsnip: amd64. Amaranth: I checked on packages.ubuntu.com and it can't seem to find it either
[00:17] <NoelJB> maxflax, does that work now?
[00:17] <Amaranth> beck-and-call: The r600 is going to be faster, the radeon driver only has (awesome) 2D acceleration, we have a catalyst driver from AMD just for Ubuntu that works in karmic
[00:17] <maxflax> NoelJB - Blutooth works when i set the switch to on..
[00:17] <Amaranth> !info amarok-common
[00:17] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: Okay, sounds like Cat is the best bet, then.  Package name?  Do I need to pull it from a PPA somewhere, or... ?
[00:18] <Amaranth> beck-and-call: fglrx-installer
[00:18] <NoelJB> maxflax, when did you make that BIOS change?
[00:18] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: Thansk.
[00:18] <beck-and-call> Er, thanks, even.
[00:18] <Amaranth> adz21c: Ok, seems to be out of date
[00:18] <maxflax> long ago, worked for me in Jaunty
[00:18] <NoelJB> maxflax, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/278008
[00:18] <Amaranth> adz21c: I would think it would be a part of the same package as amarok but perhaps not. In that case it may still be building. Try again in a couple hours.
[00:18] <NoelJB> apparently, some systems DEFAULT to rfkill!  you need the switch to ENABLE the radio.
[00:19] <maxflax> NoelJB - Can't I just disable the rfkill check.. I like not always having blutooth running
[00:20] <ActionParsnip> adz21c: looks like its not made yet: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8047329
[00:20] <beck-and-call> Dropping off to see what happens when I switch GPUs in firmware setup...
[00:21] <adz21c> ActionParsnip: Ok thanks :-) guess I will have to be patient
[00:21] <Amaranth> adz21c: Seems to be a broken package, amarok and amarok-common are from the same source package so should have shown up at the same time
[00:22] <ActionParsnip> adz21c: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amarok/2:2.2.0-0ubuntu1/+build/1271831
[00:22] <adz21c> Amaranth: thats what I thought
[00:23] <Amaranth> adz21c: Seems they dropped amarok-common from the packaging...
[00:23] <adz21c> ActionParsnip: that doesn't seem to list -common? did they forget to remove the dependency?
[00:23]  * Amaranth heads to the grocery store
[00:23] <ActionParsnip> not sure. I think its a case of sit and wait or compile your own.
[00:24] <NoelJB> maxflax, try putting that BIOS setting back, and we can talk about bluetooth afterwards.
[00:24] <Freeaqingme> I'm not sure how I did it, but I just managed to install it. Though it was complaining first about that package missing
[00:24] <Freeaqingme> (I definitely didn't compile it)
[00:25] <maxflax>  NoelJB - ok.. rebooting to change setting
[00:25] <yofel> adz21c: just checked the source, amarok-common wasn't removed from the package, no idea where it is though. failed to build maybe
[00:26] <penguin42> yofel: Has it's name changed? Is it now an amarok2 something?
[00:26] <Freeaqingme> nope, it's amarok amarok-common and amarok-utils
[00:27] <IdleOne> need help figuring out why my karmic install freezes when I try to start any application, where can I look for errors? on 8.10 live cd now
[00:27] <penguin42> IdleOne: dmesg is a good start
[00:27] <adz21c> yofel: surely if -common failed to build it wouldn't include the associated packages that are dependant on it into the repo
[00:27] <penguin42> IdleOne: But then if it's completely frozen that will be hard - see if you can ctrl-alt-f1 to switch to a console to do that, also note things like if capslock works
[00:28] <IdleOne> penguin42,  ctrl-alt-f1 does not work. no keybord or mouse response at all
[00:29] <penguin42> IdleOne: It'll be hard then to track it down I guess; you could try alt-sysrq-t and then alt-sysrq-s and then look in /var/log/messages after reboot to see if there's anything useful
[00:29] <yofel> adz21c: I can't find amarok-common on the lp build page, but the debian/control file of amarok still has it, so maybe something in the packaging got broken
[00:29] <yofel> I'll try to rebuild it here
[00:31] <IdleOne> penguin42, so what your telling me is to look for something in logs? what logs? I don't see any /var/log/messages
[00:32] <penguin42> IdleOne: Really? I have one
[00:32] <IdleOne> penguin42, scratch that
[00:32] <penguin42> IdleOne: But also the alt-sysrq-t should output a dump of all the current processes at the point you hit it to the log - now if it's 100% dead that won't help, but alt-sysrq sometimes gets stuff when all else is dead
[00:36] <Xgates> ok wireless is working, I guess the update fixed whatever was going on....

[00:36] <Xgates> ok now sound that's not working and it should
[00:37] <IdleOne> guess it doesn't help at all that I have no idea what I am looking for
[00:37] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: ok
[00:37] <maxflax> NoelJB - got it to work doing but not by changing in bios.
[00:37] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, the burning problem could be from the software ?
[00:37] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: First of all before I say some stuff,  I am going to ask you this,  why do you want to do the beta?
[00:38] <tbone> [18:35] <tbone> anyone know where kdm gets launched from
[00:38] <tbone> [18:35] <tbone> like where in what script?
[00:38]  * penguin42 would expect /etc/init.d/kdm ?
[00:38] <maxflax> NoelJB - I turned the computer off and turned the switch on, then I booted and now it sees my wifi and rfkill says not blocked
[00:38] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, because I believe I want to discover its new features + testing it, both way I have two pcs so i dont have important data on my 2nd one
[00:39] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: to be honest there isn't realy anything major as such to test in 9.10
[00:39] <Black_Phantom> i see
[00:39] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: the main reason for you to have 9.10 though I think would be this :)
[00:39] <sebsebseb> Ext4
[00:39] <Black_Phantom> lol no dont wrry i dont have data in perabytes lol
[00:39] <maxflax> NoelJB - So this means that I have to boot the computer with the switch on and when boot and done I can turn the switch off because now it doesn't effect
[00:40] <sebsebseb> since it has a proper kernel for it and that, so  it's nice and stable and default,  unlike with 9.04 where it didn't have a proper kernel for it,  and  it wasn't perfectly stable and  optional
[00:40] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: no me either, but
[00:40] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: with / in Ext4  get much faster boot up, shut down, and disk checking after 23 or so boots
[00:40] <tbone> penguin42: yeah you are correct
[00:40] <Black_Phantom> aha i see
[00:40] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: well I assume that's with /boot in there as well
[00:40] <NoelJB> maxflax, if you boot with it on, it doesn't recognize?  You have to boot with it off and toggle it?  Sounds like the bug I showed you, which was supposed to have been fixed.
[00:41] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: so if you were to upgrade from hardy where you got Ext3 I assume?
[00:41] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, am facing problems burning the cd
[00:41] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, yes
[00:41] <NoelJB> maxflax, oh, sorry. mis-read it.
[00:41] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: you would have to go through 8.10,  and then 9.04
[00:41] <Black_Phantom> yeah thats what am doing
[00:41] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: and then if you want Ext4 you would have to convert your Ext3 file system
[00:41] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: ,but then you might not get full proper Ext4 as well
[00:41] <Black_Phantom> why ?
[00:41] <sebsebseb> ,because the conversion might not be good enough
[00:41] <Xgates> ok Karmic is using alsa 1.0.20 are there any plan to use 1.0.21? Because the Intel HDA that is also a part of Nvidia that is on the latest macbook pros doesn't work ---->  'lspci' -- Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP79 High Definition Audio (rev b1)
[00:41] <Xgates>                                     
[00:42] <sebsebseb> I am not sure how good the conversion really is
[00:42] <Xgates> ooops sorry on that guys
[00:42] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: might as well clean install
[00:42] <NoelJB> maxflax, boot with it on, and you can put a command in  /etc/rc.local to turn off your bluetooth
[00:42] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: quicker
[00:42] <Black_Phantom> my plan was to install the beta, then upgrade it to the release when its released
[00:42] <maxflax> NoelJB - what command do I put in rc.local?
[00:42] <Black_Phantom> yeah I understand sebsebseb , but I told u am facing problems burning the cd
[00:42] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: that will probably be ok, but even with a beta, something could go wrong, resulting with people having a reason to clean install the final
[00:42] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: What kind of problems?
[00:43] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, while burning all of a sudden an error happens
[00:43] <Xgates> Please tell me the Ubuntu team can get alsa-1.0.21 going when it's final
[00:43] <NoelJB> maxflax, what happens if you do rfkill block bluetooth ?
[00:43] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: What's the error?
[00:43] <tbone> Ok so i need some advice on my box only does not make into kdm,  xorg.0.log xf86OpenConsole: VT_WAITACTIVE failed: Interrupted system call
[00:43] <Black_Phantom> and I was using PowerISO on Windows
[00:43] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: Also did you md5sum  your ISO, I guess not
[00:43] <Black_Phantom> some long code
[00:43] <sebsebseb> md5sum
[00:43] <sebsebseb> check the ISO
[00:43] <sebsebseb> make sure it's a good download
[00:43] <sebsebseb> DId you do this? No?
[00:43] <Black_Phantom> i think its downloaded 100%
[00:43] <NoelJB> maxflax, for my system, I toggle it differently, but that's platform specific.
[00:44] <maxflax> NoelJB - well, I have just now turned the switch to off.. and the blutooth is now off but the wifi is still upp
[00:44] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: 99% of the time the ISO will download fine, but not always, hence why you can check the ISO to make sure it's a good download
[00:44] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, how can I md5sum ?
[00:44] <tbone> Xgates that a negative
[00:44] <Xgates> snd_hda_intel is the problem
[00:44] <NoelJB> maxflax, with my thinkpad, I can change it in /proc/acpi/ibm/bluetooth
[00:44] <sebsebseb> really  they should make it more clear on the Ubuntu website,  on  the download page and that, that people should md5sum  or sha1sum  the ISO's before burning to CD, to make sure they are a good download
[00:44] <tbone> but i have it installed with script
[00:45] <sebsebseb> !md5sum |  Black_Phantom
[00:45] <maxflax> NoelJB - this mean that I have to boot with the switch on and efter boot is done I can put it to off and wifi is up and blutooth down
[00:45] <NoelJB> maxflax, interesting.  if I change MY switch, it WILL turn both of the radios off.
[00:45] <Xgates> tbone: why not? support in alsa-1.0.21 is much better and compiling alsa is cake, I mean we are talking like a whole 10 mins to make a package
[00:45] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, whats better pidgin or empathy ?
[00:46] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: I still like Pidgin and last time I tried empathy it wasn't that good, however  empathy does replace Pidgin and Ekiga  in 9.10  for clean installs, but of course Pidgin can also be installed
[00:46] <tbone> i don't know why, thats what i've read somewhere.
[00:46] <maxflax> NoelJB - I have config the switch in BIOS to only control blutooth and not wifi.. I can set it to control both but and thats the default setting
[00:46] <tbone> and seems to be looking that way seen as they still using 1.20
[00:47] <NoelJB> maxflax, glad we have your WIFI working again
[00:48] <maxflax> NoelJB - jupp, annoying thou that I have to remember to put the switch to on before booting
[00:48] <Xgates> ok I thought maybe some of the Ubuntu dev team hung out here
[00:48] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: imgburn is good in Windows for burning the contents of an ISO to CD
[00:48] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, about md5sum, in the ubuntu hashes i think theres no a hash for the beta cd
[00:48] <Xgates> where can I give some input to try and get them to put it in?
[00:48] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: there is you just got to know where to get it from
[00:48] <maxflax> NoelJB - Hopefully it will be fixed in NM later on.. thanks for the help anyway :)
[00:48] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, aha thanks
[00:49] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: yeah so the program you check the md5sum in gives you a code, and you check it to the ones Ubuntu/Canonical provide
[00:49] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: and they need to be the same, and if they are that's a good download
[00:49] <maxflax> NoelJB - Almost dropped NM and installed wicd.. but only almost :D
[00:50] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, alright thanks man
[00:50] <NoelJB> maxflax, not really an NM issue.  possibly a driver or BIOS issue, but NM is being told that the radio IS off.
[00:51] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, btw can I use a CD-RW to install 9.10 ?
[00:51] <IdleOne> Black_Phantom, yes
[00:51] <maxflax> NoelJB - well it worked before in Jaunty.. stopped working in Karmic
[00:51] <Black_Phantom> good
[00:51] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: it's probably better to use a CD R though
[00:51] <maxflax> NoelJB - So must be a driver thing or something then..
[00:52] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: Now I have some odd lag between 2xclick-to-maximize and the actual animation, but otherwise things are much improve (including temperatures).  Thanks!
[00:52] <beck-and-call> Er, much improved.
[00:52] <tbone> how can you tell the order in which the things in init.d get booted?
[00:52] <maxflax> NoelJB - Even thou I've putted the switch to off and blutooth is gone.. it says in rflist that blutooth is not blocked. Feels like a driver problem very much!
[00:53] <thiebaude> beck-and-call, he went to the store, i dont know if he's back yet
[00:53] <Black_Phantom> ok thanks for your help sebsebseb , I have to leave now
[00:53] <thiebaude> lol
[00:53] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: hang on
[00:53] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: did you get on the page on Ubuntu.com  where the md5sum code is that you compare to?
[00:53] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, yes I did
[00:53] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: which one?
[00:53] <beck-and-call> thiebaude: Thanks for the tip.
[00:53] <yofel> tbone: look in /etc/rcX.d/ but with upstart being used more and more you should look at the dependencies of the /etc/init/ scripts
[00:53] <thiebaude> beck-and-call, np
[00:54] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM
[00:54] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: no
[00:54] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: the page that provides the code that you compare  to
[00:54] <Black_Phantom> UbuntuHash
[00:54] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: the code with the code your ISO is meant to have,  about to give you that
[00:54] <Black_Phantom> its provided there
[00:54] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: for the beta?
[00:54] <thiebaude> beck-and-call, i cant believe 9.10 is stable for me with compiz too
[00:54] <Blizzerand> Hello there , I started upgrading to karmic with main server . But when I found it was slow I changed back to another server . Will this cause any trouble
[00:54] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes
[00:55] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, Theres no code for the 9.10 beta
[00:55] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: yes  exactly
[00:56] <cdr700> Does anyone know how to change panel font colours in karmic?
[00:56] <AlienX> anyone know if there's some weird issue with user groups and pulse where a normal user can't change the default input in padevchooser?
[00:56] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: ,but here there is http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/MD5SUMS
[00:56] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, I believe the code will be available when its released then ? its not available now
[00:56] <Black_Phantom> oh i see
[00:57] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: it is available now on the link I just gave, make sure that when you check your ISO that you get that code, and  if so  your ISO is fine
[00:57] <yofel> adz21c: amarok builds fine here, I guess the -common package was to be build on i386 or armel (which both failed)
[00:57] <Black_Phantom> thanks again sebsebseb
[00:57] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: also burning a CD a bit slower can help
[00:57] <yofel> adz21c: either wait for it to get fixed or build the package yourself
[00:57] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: np and enjoy Karmic
[00:58] <Black_Phantom> :)
[00:59] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: ,but you might not :D
[00:59] <cdr700> Anyone?
[00:59] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: probably will though
[01:00] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, I will have no problems with that, thats the concept of testing afterall
[01:01] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: when you install, having a seperate /home can be useful by the way
[01:01] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, you mean to back up data ?
[01:01] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: I mean to make future re installs or  even distro hoping much easier
[01:02] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, oh i see
[01:02] <mikejet> When the user's term type does not support colors, "ls -al --color=auto" should not output vt100 color escape sequences.  You can see them with "dircolors -p".
[01:02] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, but i guess in that way the storage will be limited for the /home partition
[01:02] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: so you can keep data and  program user data easilley when doing that stuff
[01:02] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: well you give /  like  10GB or 12GB  and  big seperate home, and some swap space I guess
[01:03] <sebsebseb> !home |  Black_Phantom
[01:03] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: easier doing it when installing then to an install, well I have never done it to an install
[01:04] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, I think i will do this when I install 9.10 because of the ext4
[01:04] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: 9.10 will do Ext4 by default :)  ,but it will still also put everything into  / by default hmm
[01:04] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: ,but you can manualley set up a seperate /home
[01:04] <Black_Phantom> yes I will do that sebsebseb
[01:05] <ninjah> Wireless doesn't work on my Inspiron 1525. Did an update and even installed the b43 module. Any suggestions
[01:05] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, did you test it btw ?
[01:05] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: test what?
[01:05] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, 9.10
[01:05] <yofel> ninjah: which wireless card? (run lspci in a terminal)
[01:05] <AlienX> anyone know why gnome users and groups settings doesn't show anything but root and my user? Doesn't show all the system groups anymore :(
[01:05] <cdr700> Does anyone know how to change panel font colours in karmic??
[01:05] <ninjah> yofel: Broadcom Corporation BCM4312 802.11b/g (rev 01)
[01:05] <adz21c> yofel: ok thanks for your assistance
[01:06] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: yes got rid of 9.04 on this computer, and did a clean install and been doing Karmic since alpha 4 on here
[01:06] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, hows the booting speed ? is it alot better as its spoken
[01:06] <yofel> ninjah: look into the restricted drivers, and install 'bcmwl-kernel-source' if you don't find anything there
[01:06] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: it's Ext4 that speeds things up,  I  used 9.04 with Ext4 also :)
[01:06] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, do you get a blank screen at startup?
[01:07] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: in fact the other computer still has 9.04 on it and with Ext4
[01:07] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, i see
[01:07] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: probably keep 9.04 on that one,  and then upgrade through 9.10 to 10.04 when it's time
[01:07] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: startup has  not always worked properly
[01:08] <Black_Phantom> am wondering how 20.04 will be lol
[01:08] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, yep, only until it gets to the login prompt
[01:08] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: at the moment there seems to be an issue,   and it's not loading up stuff properly, a little flashing thing on the screen, and yeah,  but  turn the computer off, and  on again, and  it boots up
[01:08] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: plus I have some other minor issues regarding boot up,  left from alpha  or whatever
[01:09] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, some other ppl have the same problem also, but its no show-stopper
[01:09] <thiebaude> compiz even works great
[01:09] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: still a good idea to do a clean install when the final is out realy though
[01:10] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, yea, when its time i'll have the 9.10 through ship-it
[01:10] <ninjah> yofel: installing bcmw-kernel-source now
[01:11] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, it will be neat installing java and flash from software center
[01:11] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: uh  centre :)
[01:11] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: silly American spellings
[01:11] <thiebaude> haha
[01:12] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: software centre is nice, but nothing major,  add/remove is good enough really,   and  installing  with commands is :)
[01:13] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: plus if I want graphical  to install stuff, well  synaptic
[01:13] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: or remove stuff or whatever
[01:13] <mikejet> This produces crazy output: export TERM=dumb ; eval `dircolors` ; ls -color=auto -al
[01:13] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, yep, i do synaptic whenever i do a new install java, flash,etc,
[01:13] <mikejet> This produces crazy output: export TERM=dumb ; eval `dircolors` ; ls --color=auto -al
[01:14] <thiebaude> but i do use medibuntu
[01:15] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: it's not needed for those
[01:16] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: Flash and Java from the normal repo
[01:17] <slacker_nl> mikejet: not for me
[01:17] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, i use it for w32 codecs
[01:17] <mikejet> slacker_nl, Is there any color displayed, or is it entirely monochrome output?
[01:17] <slacker_nl> mikejet: colors
[01:17] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: oh ok
[01:18] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, do you use compiz?
[01:18] <mikejet> slacker_nl, That's the bug. /bin/ls should notice that your "dumb" termtype cannot display colors. This is wrong output on every term type that does use the same vt100 color escape sequences.
[01:19] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: no,  well default effects  that Ubuntu comes with well  sure since it's enabled by default  I guess, but then I don't notice, and probably end up disabling them
[01:19] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: in the past I have, but it seems I coudn't get loads of the effects on here, or simpalley I didn't know how to configure the advanced settings manager, so I would
[01:19] <mikejet> slacker_nl, "/usr/bin/infocmp" says whether your termtype supports color. /bin/ls should honor that.
[01:19] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: plus compiz can cause problems with certain programs
[01:20] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: some people like using Compiz to impress Windows users, so that they give Linux a try
[01:20] <slacker_nl> mikejet: it even supports colors for my ps1
[01:20] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, i understand that
[01:21] <slacker_nl> anyways
[01:21] <slacker_nl> i'm off to bed, 2:21 am already
[01:21] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: So that they give a Linux distro a try, would be more exact above
[01:21] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: since Linux is just the kernel
[01:24] <virtuald> some program started leaking memory and chewed up my swap
[01:25] <virtuald> so i had to ssh in to do something about it
[01:25] <virtuald> i killed it from my phone but i couldn't see the process name because my phone screen is too small for top
[01:25] <virtuald> now swapoff takes forever
[01:38] <Xgates> say when I run 'debuild' I'm getting ---> dpkg-buildpackage: error: fakeroot debian/rules clean gave error exit status 2 - Is there a problem in the rules for  kdist_clean: clean?
[01:39] <yofel> Xgates: what package?
[01:39] <Xgates> alsa-driver I'm compiling
[01:39] <yofel> Xgates: do you have all build dependencies?
[01:40] <Xgates> I ran ---> apt-get install build-essential dh-make debhelper devscripts
[01:40] <yofel> Xgates: that might not be enough, run 'apt-get build-dep <pkgname>'
[01:41] <yofel> with sudo that is
[01:41] <Xgates> sorry you lost me run that for what?
[01:41] <yofel> Xgates: apt-get build-dep will install the build dependencies for a package that are defined in it's control file
[01:42] <yofel> Xgates: if you want to rebuild a package from source you'll need those
[01:42] <Xgates> ok I'm trying to compile alsa-driver which Ubuntu calls alsa-base, so you saying run this as --- apt-get build-dep alsa-base?
[01:43] <yofel> Xgates: yes
[01:43] <Xgates> ahhh ok wasn't quite sure what you were saying
[01:44] <Xgates> ok I ran it and I just ran debuild and I'm still getting the same msg:
[01:44] <Xgates> dpkg-buildpackage: error: fakeroot debian/rules clean gave error exit status 2
[01:45] <yofel> Xgates: ok, can you pastebin the debuild output please?
[01:46] <Xgates> ok this is why it's crapping ---->  make[1]: *** No rule to make target `distclean'.  Stop.
[01:47] <Gika> hello
[01:47] <yofel> Xgates: can you pastebin the output? if I just try to rebuild the package without mods it builds fine here
[01:47] <yofel> hi Gika
[01:47] <Gika> i have a problem... xsplash doesn't load. i get grub, some ugly text and then the login screen
[01:48] <Gika> there's some text when i shutdown too
[01:48] <Xgates> yofel: http://pastebin.com/m32e86652
[01:50] <Gika> (xsplash is installed of course)
[01:51] <yofel> Gika: you're not the only one with that, don't know the solution though (if there is one at the moment)
[01:51] <blakamin> Gika... the login screen is part of xsplash IIRC. that sounds like a normal karmic boot at this stage
[01:52] <Gika> shouldn't there be the white ubuntu logo in the middle of the screen instead of text? (text like services starting)
[01:52] <Gika> like when i boot from the cd
[01:53] <blakamin> not at the moment.. usplash is disabled and this is only a beta
[01:54] <Gika> oh, ok...
[01:55] <yofel> Xgates: you're trying to build the driver from the alsa homepage? Did you add a debian directory from somewhere?
[01:56] <Gika> also, i've had issues with the upgrading-- at the end of the upgrade it told me something like "your sistem could not be upgraded" (though it works fine now)
[01:56] <Xgates> yofel: yeah alsa-driver from homepage, debian direc? This is the /path I have --- /home/sar/Misc/Drivers/alsadriver-1.0.21/
[01:57] <Pretto> the sound applet only works with pulseaudio?
[01:57] <yofel> Xgates: without a debian directory that contains the dpkg control files you can't use debuild, you'll have to build and install it by hand (./configure && make   etc...)
[01:58] <yofel> Pretto: the gnome one yes, it only supports PA now
[01:59] <Pretto> yofel, PA is consuming all of my cpu here, how can i install another sound applet that works with esound?
[02:00] <yofel> Pretto: no idea, if you have issues with PA you might want to ask dtchen when he's around
[02:01] <tbone>  kdm is in my init.d but does anyone know what rc directory links to this file, cuz i think maybe mine got deleted
[02:01] <yofel> tbone: ?
[02:01] <Pretto> yofel, i've tried the #pulseaudio, but no luck
[02:01] <yofel> kdm doesn't start on boot for you?
[02:02] <yofel> Pretto: well, I'm really no audio guy, so you'll have to wait for somebody else to answer you
[02:02] <Xgates> yofel: ok, well I'm reading this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
[02:02] <tbone> yofel
[02:02] <Xgates> didn't see it mention a deb direc
[02:02] <tbone> no it doesnt
[02:02] <Pretto> yofel, thank you anyway
[02:04] <tbone> yofel: yeah it started acting up after updates today, i can manuelly start kdm, but its not loading automatically so i am just trying to figure out how all this works
[02:04] <yofel> tbone: ok... the old way was to have kdm in rc2.d but now it seems to only use upstart
[02:04] <yofel> tbone: there relevant file would be /etc/init/kdm.conf
[02:04] <yofel> I'm looking at it too
[02:04] <yofel> (using kdm too, haven't rebooted today yet though)
[02:06] <yofel> tbone: did you start kdm by running the executable or by running 'sudo start kdm' or 'sudo service kdm start' ?
[02:06] <tbone> yofel: i thought the way kdm would start is  /etc/init.d/kdm being symbolic linked from one of the rc. directerorys
[02:07] <tbone> yofel i just type kdm
[02:07] <yofel> tbone: that was the old and now deprecated sysvinit way
[02:07] <tbone> are sudo kdm
[02:07] <yofel> tbone: ok, can you try to start is as a daemon like I said? That's how it's supposed to start on boot
[02:07] <tbone> ok so there is no more links from the rc
[02:08] <tbone> ok i will try
[02:08] <tbone> 1 min
[02:08] <yofel> truth to be told I'm not sure as well how upstart works...
[02:08] <Xgates> yofel: according to another README this is all its says --->  http://pastebin.com/m11fcaff3
[02:10] <yofel> Xgates: what you might want to do is create an emtpy folder and run 'apt-get source alsa-base' in there to get the .20 source, take a look at the debian folder in there (the packaging seems to be rather complicated)
[02:14] <Xgates> yofel: but I'm not compiling the .20 source so I don't get that
[02:14] <Veinor>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames
[02:15] <Veinor> What's the deal with 6.10?
[02:15] <thiebaude> Veinor, by that comment?
[02:16] <yofel> Xgates: well, if you want the .21 source installed the debian way, looking  at the packaging of .20 is a good point to start. Why do you want do a package though?
[02:17] <Veinor> The one about crackpipes.
[02:17] <Xgates> .20 doesn't work
[02:20] <Xgates> yofel: well I removed the old direcs did it all over again with new direcs and when I run dh I'm not getting a /debian path
[02:20] <Xgates> hmmm
[02:20] <yofel> Xgates: well, you should get yourself some assistence though if you want to tinker with the modules. But did you really read the README and INSTALL files for the .21 source? You don't need to package it to test it
[02:21] <Xgates> I'm not testing it I know it works I just wanted to make a pack so I didn't have to keep compiling it by hand was all
[02:22] <Xgates> ok I started this all over and it's not making the debian direc
[02:23] <Elone> anyone know how to install vmware workstation 6.5.3 ~ its installer stop working @ 62% ~
[02:24] <darthanubis> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/mountall/+bug/432620
[02:24] <Xgates> ok got it to go now sheesh...
[02:24] <Xgates> at least making a /debian direc
[02:27] <Xgates> yofel: question what is a debian directory?
[02:27] <Xgates> this still isn't working
[02:27] <Xgates> according to the Ubuntu wiki all I need is a /path that has <name><version>
[02:28] <yofel> Xgates: it contains the files that tell dpkg what it's supposed to do, as well as the dependencies and changlog files for a package
[02:28] <Xgates> I thought you get this from running dh_make
[02:29] <yofel> Xgates: tbh the wiki page is at most sufficient for very simple packages
[02:29] <yofel> Xgates: haven't read it for ages and I usually only modiy packages so I'm not sure
[02:30] <Amaranth> Xgates: What are you trying to package?
[02:30] <yofel> Xgates: I'm just trying to re-package it using the .20 package as a base
[02:31] <Xgates> well according to the error this is just one thing I can see ----> No rule to make target `distclean
[02:31] <Gika> anyone knows why popup notifications appear not on the top left but slightly beloww?
[02:31] <Xgates> the rule distclean/clean is the problem is all
[02:31] <yofel> Amaranth: a new alsa-driver version, but I don't think he'll make it
[02:31] <Amaranth> Gika: So you can still see the close button for a window
[02:31] <Xgates> Amaranth: alsa-driver-1.0.21
[02:32] <Amaranth> Xgates: grab the source package for the version we have, copy the debian/ dir over, edit debian/changelog to bump the version
[02:32] <yofel> Xgates: you really should just leave it alone or wait for it to get packaged in debian/unstable and rebuild it from there then
[02:32] <Amaranth> actually there is a way to get the updated version automagically
[02:33]  * Amaranth tries to remember the command
[02:33] <yofel> you mean dch -i
[02:33] <Amaranth> no
[02:34] <Amaranth> I mean a program that uses debian/watch from the current package to download the new version and set it up to build
[02:34] <yofel> hm, don't remember it too
[02:34] <Gika> Amaranth: so it's meant to behave that way... but it's really ugly, is there a way to revert it like the way it was in 9.04?
[02:35] <yofel> copying the debian folder over at least doesn't work out of the box, need to remove the patch files first...
[02:35] <Amaranth> Gika: nope
[02:36] <Xgates> Amaranth: ---> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/DebianWatch  ??
[02:37] <DKcross> hello people
[02:37] <DKcross> i think that i have a bug kernel
[02:37] <thiebaude> DKcross, hi
[02:39] <DKcross> thiebaude,
[02:39] <DKcross> amazing for your welcome!
[02:40] <Amaranth> Xgates: That gave me the hint I needed :)
[02:40] <thiebaude> DKcross, what part of ubuntu do you work on?
[02:40] <Amaranth> ah, but we have no alsa-driver package
[02:40] <Amaranth> That's just in the kernel
[02:40] <Xgates> what sucks on that Wiki is by the way they do it you don't know what URL to use to grab something from
[02:40] <Xgates> :(
[02:41] <Amaranth> So you can't make a new package for it anyway, it'll conflict with the kernel
[02:41] <DKcross> thiebaude, why..
[02:41] <thiebaude> just wondering
[02:41] <DKcross> thiebaude,  well.. I'm not ubuntu developer.
[02:41] <thiebaude> ok
[02:42] <DanaG> oh  yeah, if you want an ALSA 1.0.20, you can try linuxant's packages (that build the modules for you).
[02:42] <DanaG> The original intent is for their modem drivers... but it happens to be a convenient way to install ALSA.
[02:42] <DKcross> thiebaude, yes..
[02:42] <DanaG> They don't have 1.0.21, though -- and karmic is already 1.0.20.
[02:42] <DKcross> well i have problems, i'm not sure, i think is the kernel bug
[02:42] <DKcross> 0000:01:00.0: BAR 6: no parent found for of device any idea about this message?
[02:42] <Amaranth> DKcross: should be harmless
[02:42] <Xgates> Amaranth: from what I see the pkg 'alsa-base' is the driver support not the kernel, so then I should be able to compile without a problem
[02:43] <Amaranth> Xgates: but alsa-base isn't the kernel modules
[02:43] <Xgates> Amaranth: if you figure out this debian/watch thing please let me know
[02:43] <Xgates> Amaranth: I just want the drivers
[02:43] <DKcross> Amaranth,  but, the start process is very slow
[02:43] <Amaranth> That's the package we file sound bugs against because we couldn't put the apport hooks in the kernel package but that's not where the modules are
[02:43] <Amaranth> Xgates: drivers == modules
[02:44] <yofel> well, I'm off to bed, gn8 all
[02:44] <Amaranth> DKcross: Not because of that
[02:44] <DKcross> Amaranth,  yes
[02:44] <DKcross> the message stay about 6 seconds or more
[02:44] <Xgates> Amaranth: ok I thought you were talking about something different, WELL alsa-base says it's the drivers/modules
[02:44] <Xgates> so what are you getting at?
[02:44] <Amaranth> Why do people assume the last line they see is the one causing slow downs?
[02:44] <DKcross> any idea about?
[02:45] <Amaranth> DKcross: Most of the boot is silent so more things are happening you just can't see them
[02:45] <DKcross> Amaranth,  sorry, but i have the problem and,. when the ubuntu start the message show about 6 seconds
[02:45] <Amaranth> DKcross: That's because it's starting more things
[02:45] <DKcross> no really
[02:45] <Amaranth> No really
[02:46] <DKcross> nop
[02:46] <Amaranth> Linus himself said so :P
[02:46] <kevin009> is it just me, or does Karmic use much less ram than the older versions did? i'm at about 170 megs instead of 270 on older versions
[02:46] <thiebaude> lol
[02:46] <DKcross> this message is after the boot process
[02:46] <aliendude5300> Hi again... I'm having trouble with an old XUbuntu system of mine, after installing updates it can no longer boot. It would appear that /dev/pts is broken.
[02:46] <Amaranth> DKcross: So you see this message in gdm?
[02:46] <Xgates> Amaranth: if alsa-base are only sound mods then why does it say it will remove ubuntu-desktop?
[02:46] <DKcross> no man, is after
[02:46] <Amaranth> Xgates: Because it provides other useful things
[02:47] <Amaranth> DKcross: Ok, don't listen to me, waste your time figuring out how that message can slow things down
[02:47] <Xgates> Amaranth: that's crazy the sound mods should only be that and if there needs to be other added features they should be kept seperate
[02:47] <Amaranth> DKcross: The only 'fix' for that message is going back to 2.6.30 or upgrading to the latest upstream kernel git
[02:47] <aliendude5300> In addition to that for some reason I'm having trouble mounting my digital camera via USB on this machine so I can transfer a picture of the error I get
[02:47] <Xgates> this complicates thing....
[02:47] <aliendude5300> :/
[02:48] <DKcross> Amaranth,  i cant understand you man..
[02:48] <DanaG> gneight?  nice.
[02:48] <DanaG> "gn8" is what I'm commenting on.
[02:48] <DKcross> i can see that isn't a friendly message
[02:49] <aliendude5300> Hmm... this just isn't my day... lsusb shows that my camera is connected but I can't get it to mount :/
[02:49] <aliendude5300> Bus 001 Device 008: ID 07b4:0109 Olympus Optical Co., Ltd C-370Z/D-535Z/X-450
[02:50] <Amaranth> DKcross: How do you know that message is causing your boot to stall?
[02:50] <aliendude5300> any ideas?
[02:50] <Amaranth> DKcross: What proof do you have?
[02:50] <DKcross> because is after the boot process
[02:50] <DKcross> and this problem include that dont show the usplash
[02:50] <Amaranth> After the boot process you see GDM so no more messages
[02:51] <Amaranth> usplash isn't supposed to be showing
[02:51] <DKcross> sorry for my english wait
[02:51] <DKcross> sorry
[02:51] <DKcross> is before, lol!
[02:51]  * aliendude5300 feels hopeless right now :(
[02:51] <DKcross> change all "after" word for before
[02:52] <Amaranth> DKcross: Before the boot process is gdm :)
[02:52] <NoelJB> Elone, I haven't checked 6.5.3 against Karmic, but 6.5.2 needed patches for the modules to compile against the kernel.
[02:52] <Xgates> Amaranth: is there a way to force an install, as in this case removing alsa-base and then installing the ubuntu-dekstop back in without it?
[02:52] <Amaranth> DKcross: That message appears while drivers are being loaded
[02:52] <Amaranth> DKcross: But the rest of the boot is silent so you wouldn't notice other things still happening
[02:53] <Amaranth> Xgates: Not without breaking dpkg to the point it wouldn't install anything else until you fixed it
[02:53] <DKcross> ok, listen... or read... first start Grub. ok
[02:53] <DKcross> next i selected ubuntu and show this problem...
[02:53] <Amaranth> DKcross: sudo aptitude install bootchart
[02:53] <aliendude5300> In addition to what I already said, on the broken machine, it seems my filesystem (/dev/sda1) is mounted read only.
[02:53] <Amaranth> Then reboot
[02:53] <Amaranth> Then you can tell for sure
[02:53] <DKcross> ok
[02:53] <DKcross> Amaranth, thanks
[02:53] <myk_robinson> hey. Trying karmic on a laptop i just replaced a screen on, it gives me a warning on bootup about the battery capacity. What utility is it using to check the battery, and how can i run it manually after attempting to "refresh" the battery by draining and filling a couple of times?
[02:53] <Xgates> Amaranth: I thought there was a feature to simply install without a dependancy
[02:54] <Amaranth> Xgates: You can force it but it'll wedge dpkg until you resolve the dependency
[02:55] <Amaranth> Xgates: Why do you need the new alsa anyway? Soundblaster X-Fi?
[02:55] <Xgates> In a package like this such as Alsa it shouldn't be linked to anything, it's absurd to do this
[02:55] <Xgates> no this is a macbook
[02:55] <Xgates> intel/nvidia hda
[02:55] <Amaranth> Xgates: It should work then
[02:55] <Amaranth> Xgates: Are you not getting the third speaker?
[02:55] <Xgates> 3rd speaker?
[02:56] <Amaranth> macbooks include a woofer
[02:56] <Amaranth> that's why sound on a macbook actually sounds good
[02:56] <Amaranth> Ubuntu couldn't use the third speaker until karmic
[02:57] <NoelJB> Amaranth, ah, is that why.  I thought it was the Harman Kardon speakers.
[02:57] <aliendude5300> sigh...
[02:57] <Xgates> ok this makes no sense, if you uninstall alsa-base it takes away ubuntu-desktop, BUT if you go to install it again in Synaptic it doesn't put ubuntu-desktop back
[02:57] <Xgates> hehe
[02:58] <Amaranth> that's expected
[02:58] <Amaranth> If you install something it doesn't install all the things that depend on it
[02:58] <Xgates> well if it's a dependancy why is that expected then?
[02:58] <Amaranth> Otherwise installing libc6 would install everything in the archive :P
[02:59] <Amaranth> Xgates: You've got the dependencies reversed, ubuntu-desktop depends on alsa-base
[02:59] <Amaranth> So if you install ubuntu-desktop it'll install alsa-base but if you install alsa-base it won't install ubuntu-desktop
[02:59] <Amaranth> Because alsa-base doesn't depend on ubuntu-desktop
[03:00] <Xgates> regardless of where the deps are there should be none alsa should be left alone to be removed
[03:01] <Amaranth> Xgates: And we consider alsa-base to be important to a desktop install
[03:01] <Amaranth> ubuntu-desktop is "the stuff we want in a default install of Ubuntu"
[03:01] <NoelJB> Amaranth, I don't think that people get how the dependencies work.
[03:01] <Amaranth> You can remove ubuntu-desktop without harming anything
[03:01] <Amaranth> you just won't get shiny new stuff we pull into the desktop automatically
[03:02] <Xgates> Amaranth: I'm talking only about sound drivers and support sure it's important but the package should be made to stand on it's own and link the deps in another way
[03:02] <Xgates> sound support should be interchangeable
[03:03] <Amaranth> *facepalm*
[03:03] <Amaranth> Let me try again.
[03:03] <Amaranth> ubuntu-desktop is the stuff we consider important
[03:03] <Amaranth> You are free to remove it and ignore our suggestion
[03:03] <tbone> sudo start kdm, doesn't start kdm
[03:03] <Xgates> I don't even know what ubuntu-desktop is
[03:04] <Xgates> Ubuntu packages online I read didn't say much
[03:04] <NoelJB> Xgates, ubuntu-desktop is essentially nothing but a meta (fake) package that depends on all the things that Ubuntu considers part of a desktop install.
[03:04] <NoelJB> so if you install nothing other than ubuntu-desktop, you'll get everything else.
[03:05] <NoelJB> think of it as the root of a dependency tree.
[03:05] <tbone> so any ideas on why kdm all of a suden stop loading
[03:06] <tbone> i can manuelly load it from command line
[03:07] <Amaranth> tbone: If you alt-f7 is it there?
[03:07] <NoelJB> tbone, no clue, but FWIW, I updated a Kubuntu 9.10 VM today, and everything still works.  So it does work here.
[03:07] <Amaranth> tbone: There was something about it not changing the vt but actually loading
[03:07] <arand> Xgates: Since you should be able to do "apt-get install ubuntu-desktop ubuntu" And get a pretty much complete ubuntu system, having the sound support in there is vital
[03:07] <tbone> hmm i didn't check that hold on
[03:08] <NoelJB> Amaranth, I thought that was fixed.
[03:08] <Amaranth> NoelJB: I thought so too
[03:08] <arand> Xgates: correction "apt-get install ubuntu-desktop ubuntu-standard"
[03:08] <Amaranth> I thought intel_agp loading after i915 was fixed too but two people have filed bugs against compiz for it today so...
[03:08] <tbone> I tried alf-f7 jst blank screen
[03:09] <tbone> its like kdm just isn't getting excuted
[03:09] <tbone> this my first time trying to figure out the boot sequence
[03:09] <tbone> i don't get how kdm gets loaded
[03:10] <tbone> by ubuntu by default
[03:10] <Amaranth> tbone: /etc/init/kdm.conf
[03:10] <Xgates> NoelJB: ok but if Ubuntu wants to evolve it should understand that 'flexibility' needs to be an important part of the process of development, afterall we are talking about an OpenSource platform and when Ubuntu does something like this then you are locking people into more of a proprietary state and unfortunately alot of bigger distros are doing this, becacuse they think that if you are using my distro why do you need anything else.
[03:10] <Xgates>    
[03:10] <Amaranth> Xgates: *whoosh*
[03:11] <tbone> kdm is symbolically linked to /lib/init/upstart-job
[03:11] <Amaranth> tbone: That seems broken
[03:11] <NoelJB> Xgates, there is plenty of flexibility.
[03:11] <NoelJB> Amaranth, since you work on compiz, just out of curiosity, do you know why dragging in the workspace selector is broken in Ubuntu and works in Fedora?
[03:11] <Amaranth> NoelJB: It only works with workspaces, limitation of the applet
[03:11] <NoelJB> Amaranth, its a long-standing nit, so this isn't a rant, just a question.  :-)
[03:12] <Amaranth> NoelJB: I can't imagine Fedora using compiz with workspaces though, it's completely broken like that
[03:12] <Xgates> NoelJB: not if you can't simply uninstall alsa, this is hardly flexiable
[03:12] <Amaranth> Xgates: Let me try again.
[03:12] <Amaranth> Xgates: You don't need to have ubuntu-desktop installed.
[03:12] <Xgates> Amaranth: I got it already
[03:12] <Amaranth> Xgates: It does not need to be installed for your system to work.
[03:12] <NoelJB> Amaranth, Can you elaborate?  I don't know of anything different in that respect between my Fedora 11 install and my Ubuntu ones.
[03:13] <Xgates> Amaranth: I want it installed I don't want alsa-base whichever way you look at it this should be doable that's all I'm saying
[03:13] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Ok, workspaces is the wrong word, sorry.
[03:13] <Amaranth> Xgates: I want a pony.
[03:13] <NoelJB> LOL@Travis
[03:13] <Amaranth> Xgates: You want the thing installed that says we want you to have alsa-base but you don't want alsa-base.
[03:13] <NoelJB> Xgates, you CAN uninstall ALSA.
[03:14] <NoelJB> Xgates, but anything that DEPENDS on Alsa will also want to come out.
[03:14] <Xgates> Amaranth: ok let's back up for a second, doing things an Ubuntu way is one thing, making your own applications, pkg management, etc... but talking a program and locking it into the system, well I hope you can see what I'm trying to get at
[03:14] <Amaranth> NoelJB: There are two ways of implementing workspaces in X11, Virtual Desktops and Viewports. Virtual Desktops are what everyone else uses, Viewports are what compiz uses. You can only do things like expo and cube with viewports.
[03:14] <Xgates> alsa-base for whatever it's suppose to be should only be sound support and nothing more
[03:15] <Amaranth> Xgates: You can remove alsa-base
[03:15] <Amaranth> Xgates: You aren't forced to have it
[03:15] <Xgates> Amaranth: how long have you been using Linux?
[03:15] <Amaranth> Xgates: 2002 or so
[03:15] <Amaranth> Xgates: Been an Ubuntu developer since 2005
[03:16] <Xgates> ok so pretty long, the point I'm trying to make that you miss is that a program like Alsa in the Linux world has never been dependant on anything or the other way around
[03:16] <Xgates> that's all I'm trying to say
[03:16] <Xgates> and to do so is not really the Linux way
[03:16] <Amaranth> Xgates: You don't have to have alsa-base installed.
[03:16] <tbone> Amaranth:  yeah i can't tell there's nothing that appears to be oviously wrong in /etd/init/kdm.conf
[03:17] <Xgates> Amaranth: right, BUT ubuntu-desktop gets ripped out that I want to keep that's the problem we are discussing is it not?
[03:17] <tbone> oops: am looking on my good system
[03:17] <Amaranth> tbone: One thing I remember some talk about: It's going to try to load kdm from either /usr/bin/kdm or /usr/sbin/kdm, make sure it matches where kdm is actually located
[03:17] <Amaranth> Xgates: You don't need to have ubuntu-desktop installed either.
[03:17] <JanC> ubuntu-desktop is a meta-package...
[03:17] <Amaranth> Xgates: ubuntu-desktop is the things we want you to have installed as a part of an ubuntu-desktop
[03:17] <musikgoat1> seems like this argument is going in circles
[03:18] <Amaranth> Xgates: But if you want to change things you are free to remove it
[03:18] <NoelJB> Xgates, see the PM I just sent you.
[03:18] <Xgates> Real simple ---> I want ubuntu-desktop I don't want asla-base :)
[03:18] <tbone> Amaranth: thanks
[03:18] <NoelJB> You can purge alsa-base if you want.
[03:18] <Amaranth> It is because Xgates wants to have his cake and eat it too
[03:18] <Amaranth> And I want a pony.
[03:18] <Amaranth> And a working nvidia driver.
[03:18]  * musikgoat1 gives Amaranth a pony
[03:18] <Amaranth> All of these things are impossible.
[03:18] <NoelJB> Xgates, you can't have both, because ubuntu-desktop specifically exists to include things like alsa-base.  it is an explicit statement that you WILL have certain packages, and you don't want that.
[03:18]  * musikgoat1 gives Xgates a ubuntu-desktop sans alsa-base 
[03:19] <Xgates> Amaranth: no I'm just trying to make a basic fundamental point here about the principles of a Linux system :)
[03:19] <Amaranth> Xgates: So you want the package that is "the things we want you to have installed" but you don't want the things we want you to have installed.
[03:19] <Amaranth> Xgates: So you see how silly this is?
[03:19] <NoelJB> Xgates, you can create xgates-desktop from the ubuntu-desktop source, removing alsa-base, and have your own standard desktop.
[03:19]  * NoelJB has a working nvidia driver (mostly :-p)
[03:20] <arand> Xgates: you could always repackage ubuntu-desktop not to depend on that package, I'm guessing you just edit the ./desktop-i386 file, repackage it and off you go ;)
[03:20] <Xgates> ok let's start here,  WHY does ubuntu-desk depend on alsa?
[03:20] <JanC> because that's a sane choice
[03:20] <NoelJB> because ubuntu-desktop is nothing more than a bill of goods that UBUNTU wants on a desktop!
[03:20] <Amaranth> Xgates: Because we want you to have it installed because it is sane to have it in a desktop.
[03:20] <arand> Xgates: because all normal users want sound, ubuntu-desktop is meant for ALL normal users.
[03:20] <NoelJB> That is its entire purpose.
[03:21] <Amaranth> Xgates: Maybe it'll make more sense this way: ubuntu-desktop is used to build the CDs
[03:21] <JanC> if you are insane, feel free to drop ubuntu-desktop  ;-)
[03:21] <Xgates> ok cool nothing more then what Ubuntu wants ok ok, so why not allow flexibility in that so if someone wants to make a change they can take something out and make an update or compile their own in without messing with this?
[03:21] <Amaranth> Xgates: The CD builder pulls in ubuntu-desktop and everything it depends on
[03:21] <Xgates> there is no way to do this>
[03:21] <Xgates> ?
[03:21] <NoelJB> Xgates, realize this: the ubuntu-desktop package has no content (other than a readme)!  It is nothing more than a LIST OF PACKAGES.
[03:22] <Amaranth> Xgates: Because then you aren't running the desktop how we want it to be so ubuntu-desktop doesn't match your system anymore
[03:22] <Xgates> well there must be a way to have this flexibility
[03:22] <Xgates> Ubuntu should look at this
[03:22] <Amaranth> There is: remove ubuntu-desktop
[03:22] <arand> Xgates: it's in fact rather simple to repackage it...
[03:22] <JanC> Xgates: you can compile your own replacements, just learn how apt/dpkg work
[03:22] <Amaranth> Xgates: We aren't going to look at it because you are acting rather foolish.
[03:23] <musikgoat1> Xgates: how about you look at all the packages ubuntu-desktop consists of,  and install all such packages except for alsa-base?
[03:23] <Xgates> I don't mean to allow everything if we want to use this word, just make allowances where they help not hinder
[03:23] <Amaranth> You are asking for an impossible situation
[03:23] <mercutio22> so... its not possible to customize the login screen anylonger?
[03:23] <Amaranth> Xgates: Just uninstall ubuntu-desktop and stop talking about it
[03:23] <Amaranth> Xgates: You don't want to run the desktop the way we have designed it so it doesn't fit you
[03:23] <Xgates> Amaranth: let's not get into flames ok let's try to be adults cause I am one a married man with kids ok TRY to SEE what it is I'm trying to make you see ok for the sake of possibly learning something OK?
[03:23] <Xgates> :)
[03:24] <Amaranth> *headdesk*
[03:24] <Amaranth> *headdesk*
[03:24] <Amaranth> *headdesk*
[03:24] <Xgates> Does Ubuntu want to improve?
[03:24] <Xgates> sure it does...
[03:24] <NoelJB> Xgates, and what (bad) thing would happen if you do what we tell you, and you remove ubuntu-desktop?
[03:24] <Xgates> NoelJB: ok my bad I thought it would break things....
[03:24] <Amaranth> Xgates: This whole discussion started with us telling you it wouldn't
[03:25] <Xgates> ok I'm sorry I missed that...
[03:25] <JanC> ;)
[03:25] <NoelJB> Xgates, no, that's what I keep telling you.  ubuntu-desktop is literally nothing more than a bill of materials (packages) to install by default.
[03:25] <JanC> "better late than never"  ;-)
[03:25] <Xgates> that i got it's a pack list...
[03:26] <NoelJB> yes, so if you remove it, you still have the packages that it installed, and they stay.
[03:26] <mercutio22> a metapackage
[03:26] <webbb82> in karmic beta everytime i open xchat i have to retype in my nick name and what room i want to goto shouldnt it remember or save this info
[03:26] <NoelJB> and if you really want, you can build your own xgates-desktop from ubuntu-desktop, and just remove alsa-base from the list of packages.
[03:26] <NoelJB> webbb82, yes, and it does for me.
[03:26] <gogereaver> webbb82: yes but you gotta add it
[03:27] <gogereaver> webbb82: been a long time sence i sued it
[03:27] <gogereaver> used
[03:27] <Xgates> NoelJB: so at what point would it be ok to remove so that you are staying at the pkg level that Ubuntu suggests? After like installing and doing an update and then you remove it?
[03:27] <webbb82> gogereaver, what app do u  use
[03:27] <gogereaver> webbb82: used to be pidgin but now the new one
[03:28] <gogereaver> webbb82: both support irc
[03:28] <mercutio22> I wanna change the gdm greeter. How do I do it?
[03:28] <NoelJB> Xgates, all of the other packages already installed will be updated whenever they are updated.  the only thing that you would not see would be if ubuntu decides to add new toys to the standard list of packages, but you can always add them yourself.
[03:28] <Amaranth> Xgates: The only time you'll want ubuntu-desktop installed is when upgrading to lucid
[03:29] <JanC> Xgates: after a release, the list of wanted packages won't change
[03:29] <gogereaver> i wonder why they replaceed pidgin
[03:29] <Amaranth> gogereaver: empathy integrates better
[03:29] <Xgates> so you're saying during an update is the only time you want to put it back?
[03:29] <gogereaver> eh
[03:29] <Amaranth> gogereaver: you can use it to play games multiplayer
[03:29] <Amaranth> Xgates: right
[03:29] <gogereaver> eh
[03:29] <Amaranth> gogereaver: banshee can also use it to do music sharing
[03:29] <NoelJB> gogereaver, because of the programming FRAMEWORK in the replacement, and because pidgin didn't have voice chat at the time the decision was made.  At least, as I understand it.
[03:30] <gogereaver> pidgin has always had voice for years
[03:30] <JanC> and update-manager will re-add ubuntu-desktop automaticly during a version upgrade ;)
[03:30] <gogereaver> its a addon
[03:30] <Xgates> Amaranth: ok so for alsa that would want to throw it back in, then you'll have to remove it again after every update correct?
[03:30] <Xgates> oh simply running the update-manager will put it back in automatically?
[03:31] <Xgates> the ubuntu-desktop that is?
[03:31] <NoelJB> gogereaver, maybe it was video.  <<shrug>> The discussions are on the web.
[03:31] <NoelJB> Xgates, apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[03:31] <NoelJB> Xgates, of course, that would install alsa-base again :-)
[03:31] <gogereaver> oh the project died
[03:31] <gogereaver> http://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/GSoC2008/VoiceAndVideo
[03:31] <Xgates> right that's what I'm saying so everytime you do an update you'll have to remove it
[03:32] <Xgates> ok got it thanks SORRY for the confusion :)
[03:32] <gogereaver> used farsite
[03:32] <Xgates> bbl
[03:32] <Amaranth> Xgates: Yes, update-manager installs ubuntu-desktop before doing a distribution upgrade
[03:32] <NoelJB> Xgates, every 6 months :-)
[03:32] <Xgates> ok
[03:32] <gogereaver> http://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/vv
[03:32] <gogereaver> updated
[03:33] <Forza4Life> where can i get the iso for karmic?
[03:33] <gogereaver> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/beta
[03:34] <JanC> gogereaver: the main advantage of empathy is telepathy, which means every application can use the IM connections (including games & office collaboration software)
[03:34] <gogereaver> eh
[03:34] <JanC> and now I'm off to sleep
[03:35] <NoelJB> that would be the programming framework I mentioned earlier.
[03:35] <gogereaver> most people just use skype
[03:35] <gogereaver> well i can always install it i guess
[03:35] <webbb82> the empathy irc chat window sucks compared to the pidgin one  , the empathy window doesnt even say the number of people in the room over the name list
[03:36] <gogereaver> hehe yea
[03:36] <JanC> tell me how you can use skype to edit one document with a group of people?
[03:36] <gogereaver> pidgin real irc windows
[03:36] <gogereaver> that one i can even pass standerd commands
[03:36] <DKcross> Amaranth,  ok, ready but i cant understand the pic
[03:36] <DKcross> can you help me please Amaranth
 I use skype, xchat, and pidgin (for the rest), myself.
[03:36] <webbb82> ya   what is another good one to try ,  does skype have irc
[03:37] <gogereaver> oh using the netmetting framework are they
[03:37] <DKcross> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nuestraspics/3979024266/sizes/o/
[03:37] <NoelJB> JanC, oh, do we finally have a collaborative editor to compete with subetha?  :-)
[03:37] <gogereaver> and gotoextress can do that
[03:37] <Amaranth> DKcross: Like I said, no stalls
[03:37] <Amaranth> DKcross: It's just working on loading all the drivers and other stuff
[03:39] <DKcross> what can do ? . is a kernel bug check Amaranth http://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/32238/
[03:39] <NoelJB> Ah: "Telepathy is used for text chat and other features in Empathy, to provide multiplayer support in various GNOME games, and to enable collaborative editing in the AbiWord word processor."
[03:39] <Amaranth> DKcross: You get xsplash at about 20 seconds, seems to be about average from what I've seen
[03:39] <Amaranth> DKcross: You don't have a bug, you have a slow hard drive
[03:39] <NoelJB> http://www.collabora.co.uk/projects/telepathy/
[03:39] <DKcross> Amaranth,  with jaunty start about 30 secods
[03:39] <gogereaver> just seems like a feature i would never use
[03:39] <DKcross> with karmic about 1:40
[03:39] <Amaranth> DKcross: And X starts in 20 seconds
[03:39] <gogereaver> just as easy to vnc
[03:40] <Amaranth> DKcross: bootchart lies
[03:40] <NoelJB> gogereaver, so install pidgin.
[03:40] <Amaranth> DKcross: Instead of stopping when the boot stops it runs another 45 seconds so it can chart the desktop loading too
[03:40] <gogereaver> i said that lol
[03:40] <Amaranth> DKcross: You just have to look at when it finished loading stuff and see when that was, the time it reports is completely wrong now
[03:41] <Amaranth> DKcross: On my system jaunty booted in 15 seconds and I get X in about 15 seconds
[03:41] <webbb82> hey if i install or update telepathy will that fix empathy
[03:41] <Amaranth> DKcross: Which somewhat matches what you are seeing, X starts about as fast as the system booted before
[03:41] <webbb82> what is telepathy anyhow
[03:41] <gogereaver> he posted a link
[03:41] <Amaranth> webbb82: If telepathy isn't installed empathy isn't either
[03:41] <DKcross> Amaranth,  but i cant understand
[03:42] <webbb82> oh
[03:42] <Amaranth> DKcross: karmic boots slower
[03:42] <gogereaver> kermic does not
[03:42] <Amaranth> DKcross: Unless you do a clean install of it
[03:42] <DKcross> my hard driver isnt slow... because i have other  Distros
[03:42] <gogereaver> yea i did that
[03:42] <gogereaver> 10 seconds flat
[03:42] <DKcross> jaunty an lenny is more fast
[03:42] <gogereaver> hell no
[03:43] <gogereaver> kermic flys
[03:43] <Amaranth> DKcross: There is no bug here, your boot is only 3-5 seconds different from mine
[03:43] <Amaranth> gogereaver: Only if you do a clean install :)
[03:43] <gogereaver> :)
[03:43] <Amaranth> gogereaver: 7200rpm HD?
[03:43] <gogereaver> ssd
[03:43] <DKcross> i have a clean install too
[03:43] <gogereaver> a slow ssd
[03:43] <Amaranth> DKcross: Clean install as of the beta release?
[03:43] <gogereaver> and i still get a fast boot
[03:43] <DKcross> yes
[03:43] <Amaranth> gogereaver: jcastro gets a 4 second boot
[03:43] <Amaranth> I'm going to steal his laptop
[03:43] <gogereaver> nice
[03:43] <iflema> also depending on the programs u install it can slow.... a clean load fucking flys
[03:43] <DKcross> i am in karmic from alpha 4
[03:44] <Amaranth> !ohmy | iflema
[03:44] <gogereaver> i get 10 seconds on a slow ssd
[03:44] <DKcross> but i was installing even
[03:44] <webbb82> what will the files Telepathy Development packages  do
[03:44] <Amaranth> DKcross: If you've been upgrading since alpha 4 that is why your boot is slower
[03:44] <DKcross> nos..
[03:44] <DKcross> Amaranth,  please, understand me
[03:44] <gogereaver> sence i dont count the time to take my bios to start
[03:44] <gogereaver> i count from grub
[03:44] <DKcross> i was clean installing in alpha 4, alpha 5, alpha 6.beta
[03:45] <DKcross> even change
[03:45] <Amaranth> DKcross: In that case I don't know what to tell you
[03:45] <Amaranth> DKcross: There is no spot in there were your boot stalls, it just takes a long time
[03:45] <gogereaver> if you got a slow hdd that might be slowing things down
[03:46] <iflema> !sorry
[03:46] <Amaranth> DKcross: "Before my patch, we silently didn't allocate the BARs.  Now we print a message."
[03:46] <iflema> lol
[03:46] <Amaranth> DKcross: So this "problem" was always there, it just didn't give a message before
[03:46] <iflema> sorry all.... but im not really
[03:46] <gogereaver> have you seen the test animated boot splash people are working on
[03:46] <iflema> lol
[03:47] <gogereaver> custom themes for 9.10 are gonna be crazy
[03:48] <gogereaver> dint fell to bad 9.04 took forever to boot off my ssd
[03:49] <gogereaver> only in the beta did they fix that
[03:51] <webbb821> ok one last question but this one is buggin me  i filled out a bug report about empathy a few weeks ago and i keep getting thes emails with all the info from my bug report from differant people but every email is the same
[03:52] <DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/
[03:52] <DKcross> Amaranth,  well thanks for your help
[03:52] <DanaG> there's all my bootcharts; it takes rather too long for my liking.
[03:52] <Amaranth> DanaG: Some painful disk thrashing there
[03:52] <DanaG> Yeah.  I'm not sure why.
[03:53] <Amaranth> (the green line is always on the bottom)
[03:53] <Amaranth> Terribly seek times and little on disk cache?
[03:53] <DanaG> The drive itself is pretty fast -- linear reads are about 70-80 megabytes per second.
[03:53] <webbb821> i need to inastaLL telepathy-butterfly 0.5.1 in order to fix empathy where can i get 0.5.1
[03:53] <DanaG> ST9250421AS
[03:54] <DanaG> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148364
[03:54] <gogereaver> wow thats it
[03:54] <DanaG> interesting... I may wanna' stick my old Hitachi 7K200-200 back in the thing.
[03:54] <Amaranth> hmm, my last bootchart is from the 30th
[03:54] <gogereaver> even my slow ssd can do 500mb easy
[03:54] <Amaranth> DanaG: seek time is 4.17ms
[03:54] <gogereaver> ok maybe 250mb
[03:54] <Amaranth> Should be pretty good
[03:55] <gogereaver> if its thrasiing that normaly means a memery issue
[03:55] <Amaranth> gogereaver: Not on boot
[03:55] <gogereaver> being its using x at boot now maybe
[03:56] <Amaranth> On boot it's thrashing because it's trying to load about 2GB of stuff from what appears to be a fragmented disk
[03:56] <Amaranth> 205 updates!
[03:56] <gogereaver>  is that posable
[03:56] <Amaranth> oh, they flushed the queue
[03:56] <DanaG> hmm, would re-customizing a fresh install give me a fast boot again?
[03:56] <gogereaver> i thought linux did a good job of not fragmenting
[03:56] <Amaranth> gogereaver: Only if you keep the disk less than 80% full
[03:57] <Amaranth> get over 80% and it starts fragmenting pretty bad
[03:57] <Amaranth> get over 90% and it's over
[03:57] <gogereaver> oh
[03:57] <DanaG> ah, mine's been to 99% full before; now it's better.
[03:57] <DanaG> Perhaps that's why.
[03:57] <Amaranth> DanaG: Massive fragmentation
[03:57] <DanaG> Root is currently 89% full.
[03:57] <DanaG> And home is 96% full.
[03:57] <Amaranth> DanaG: _Massive_ fragmentation
[03:57] <gogereaver> there you have it
[03:57] <DanaG> ah.
[03:58] <gogereaver> that means spaw is at the sloest point
[03:58] <Amaranth> Think FAT32 after 6 months of heavy use fragmented
[03:58] <gogereaver> swap
[03:58] <Amaranth> No, swap is a separate partition
[03:58] <gogereaver> yea but if he made it on a near full disk
[03:58] <gogereaver> its gonna be at the end
[03:58] <DanaG> hmm, I may want to offload the partition (that is, copy it elsewhere), and then wipe and restore.
[03:58] <DanaG> I do have backups.
[03:58] <Amaranth> What that actually means is every sector you need to read to load a file is a seek
[03:59] <Amaranth> DanaG: If you copy it all somewhere else you can "defrag" but copying it back
[03:59] <Amaranth> s/but/by/
[03:59] <Amaranth> wipe the disk first, of course
[03:59] <DanaG> yeah.  And make the partitions bigger.  I'll have to lose my directly-bootable Jaunty partition, though -- will offload it elsewhere.
[04:00] <Amaranth> eh, who needs jaunty?
[04:00] <gogereaver> or put in your other hdd
[04:00] <DKcross> Amaranth,  is a bug? see http://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/32238/
[04:00] <gogereaver> use it
[04:00] <Amaranth> DKcross: It's a bug that has been there for some time
[04:00] <Amaranth> DKcross: It was only noticed because it prints a message now
[04:00] <DKcross> i was this problem with jaunty, when i compile my  kernel xx.31
[04:01] <Amaranth> DKcross: Yes
[04:01] <webbb821> i  need to install telepathy-butterfly from the terminal whats the command fdor that
[04:01] <Amaranth> DKcross: But the problem exists in the jaunty kernel too, it just doesn't print a message for it
[04:01] <DKcross> Amaranth, ok, but what is the problem with my usplash?
[04:01] <DKcross> i thinks is about this
[04:01] <Amaranth> DKcross: usplash has been disabled
[04:01] <Amaranth> No one gets usplash anymore
[04:01] <webbb821> i already have the deb file but  getdeb isnt working so i need to istall the deb threw the terminal
[04:02] <gogereaver> yea they use x as there splash screen now
[04:02] <DKcross> mm mmm nop.. today install karmic in more five computers
[04:02] <gogereaver> and i aruldy forgot what they call it
[04:02] <DKcross> first start usplash, next xsplash
[04:02] <DKcross> next gdm
[04:02] <DKcross> next xsplash
[04:02] <Amaranth> DKcross: You only see usplash if you have an encrypted partition or it needs to do a fsck on the disk
[04:03] <Amaranth> If you see it any other time that is a bug, you should not be seeing usplash any more
[04:03] <gogereaver> hehe xsplash is alot more powerfull
[04:03] <gogereaver> have 3d right off the start
[04:03] <gogereaver> gonna be some fancy custom ones
[04:04] <Amaranth> What I find amusing is that when someone brought up the idea of an X-based splash before they were told "if X is started I'm showing a login screen"
[04:04] <Amaranth> gah
[04:05] <Amaranth> libwebkit-1.0-2-dbg is 117MB :/
[04:05] <gogereaver> lol who said x would = login screen
[04:05] <gogereaver> guess they never herd of xinit
[04:05] <Amaranth> gogereaver: The guy that wrote usplash
[04:05] <Amaranth> err, upstart
[04:05] <gogereaver> or level  run mode
[04:05] <Amaranth> The guy who wrote upstart
[04:06] <gogereaver> level 5
[04:06] <Amaranth> gogereaver: No no, he meant in the Ubuntu boot process
[04:06] <gogereaver> i knoe
[04:06] <Amaranth> If we're far enough along in the boot to start X he wanted it to be showing gdm
[04:06] <Amaranth> And it does but gdm now takes so long to start it needs a splash screen
[04:06] <Amaranth> That's the real reason for xsplash
[04:06] <gogereaver> well they just streamlined it
[04:06] <gogereaver> it still does
[04:07] <Amaranth> If gdm still started faster we'd just show gdm
[04:07] <Amaranth> but gdm is now a full gnome session
[04:07] <Amaranth> gnome-session, gnome-panel, metacity, etc
[04:07] <gogereaver> no idea why he thought that
[04:07] <DKcross> any here is testing karmic with Acer Aspire One?
[04:08] <Amaranth> gogereaver: Because he knows what he is talking about?
[04:08] <gogereaver> xinit it then start gdm
[04:08] <gogereaver> probly what they du
[04:08] <Amaranth> *facepalm*
[04:08] <gogereaver> do
[04:08] <Amaranth> No
[04:08] <Amaranth> gdm is a gnome session now
[04:08] <Amaranth> xsplash is started by gnome-session when gdm starts loading
[04:08] <gogereaver> well whatever order
[04:09] <Amaranth> gogereaver: Just stop
[04:09] <gogereaver> so xsplash is a prelaoder
[04:09] <gogereaver> makes sence
[04:09] <Amaranth> I don't want to explain the entire boot process or argue with someone else
[04:09] <Amaranth> If that's what you think then fine
[04:10] <Amaranth> When a momma grub2 and a daddy initramfs love each other very much... the system boots
[04:10] <DanaG> hmm, if gdm used compiz, would the real compiz then load faster?
[04:10] <Amaranth> DanaG: Sure, but gdm would load slower
[04:10] <Amaranth> gdm would be the one to pull the compiz xml files into the disk cache
[04:11] <DanaG> ah, and it would affect all users, not just those with compiz enabled.
[04:11] <Amaranth> DanaG: The gdm gnome session isn't reused for the user, it quits and a new gnome-session is started for the user
[04:12] <Amaranth> So gnome-panel and etc all have to load again
[04:12] <Amaranth> They load a little faster because they're in the disk cache though
[04:12] <webbb821> is there anyway to get ctrl alt backspace to work in karmic
[04:12] <gogereaver> sounds ineffencent
[04:13] <gogereaver> load it all one time
[04:13] <Amaranth> gogereaver: That's why we're probably scrapping it for lucid
[04:13] <Amaranth> Dunno exactly what the plans there are but it apparently involved a very customized gdm
[04:13] <DanaG> how can I tell my fragmentation?  the fibmap.pl doesn't stop at filesystem boundaries.
[04:13] <gogereaver> heh ununtu 10
[04:13] <DanaG> karmic-root: clean, 385459/786864 files, 2680431/3146724 blocks (check after next mount)
[04:13] <Amaranth> gogereaver: You can't load it all only once, the gdm versions are running as the gdm user
[04:14] <Amaranth> DanaG: If your partitions are that full the fragmentation is "omg kill me"
[04:14] <gogereaver> wouldent it just be a matter or switching out users
[04:15] <gogereaver> rather then a reload
[04:15] <Amaranth> You can't do that
[04:15] <gogereaver> yet
[04:15] <DanaG> Hmm, if once I remake the partitions, I do just cp -a, then will it defrag the stuff?
[04:16] <Amaranth> gogereaver: Sure lets rewrite the way the way the system works entirely to get something less secure just to save a couple seconds
[04:16] <gogereaver> lol
[04:16] <gogereaver> you jusy said lucid
[04:16] <Amaranth> But it wouldn't actually save anything since users have their own configuration
[04:16] <gogereaver> would be more effcent
[04:16] <Amaranth> gogereaver: Except in this case system means kernel
[04:17] <Amaranth> DanaG: Yeah, when you cp them back over it'll write them in order
[04:17] <Amaranth> DanaG: Using extents too :)
[04:17] <DanaG> hmm, on the backup drive itself, is there any use converting ext3 to ext4?
[04:17] <gogereaver> k going to sleep enjoy
[04:18] <Amaranth> DanaG: Probably not
[04:21] <bullgard4> "As part of our boot performance work, we have now transitioned to Upstart. If you are testing on your primary machine, we strongly suggest having an Ubuntu 9.10 LiveCD available, or creating an Alpha 5 USB startup disk before doing an upgrade." <- What is a USB startup disk?
[04:21] <DanaG> ugh, copying ntfs-3g to ntfs-3g is going dog-slow.
[04:21] <DanaG> 3 megabytes per second.
[04:21] <DanaG> And it's bogging down the rest of the system.
[04:21] <arand> bullgard4: from th system admin menu...
[04:22] <bullgard4> arand: I do not understand your answer. Can you elaborate.
[04:22] <arand> bullgard4: or just run usb-creator... it's just a livecd... on a shtick
[04:23] <Amaranth> d?????????  ? ?    ?        ?                ? .gvfs
[04:23] <Amaranth> This...seems broken
[04:23] <Amaranth> /var/log/gdm/.gvfs is so locked down root can't even see it
[04:23] <arand> bullgard4: system menu, administration, usb startup disk creator
[04:24] <DanaG> that's not locked-down; that's just broken.
[04:24] <DanaG> transport endpoint disconnected, or something.
[04:24] <Amaranth> $ sudo chown root:root /var/lib/gdm/.gvfs
[04:24] <Amaranth> chown: cannot access `/var/lib/gdm/.gvfs': Permission denied
[04:24] <arand> Amaranth: currupted file, fsck-time?
[04:24] <Amaranth> Or apparmor
[04:24] <DanaG> check "mount".
[04:24] <Amaranth> gvfs-fuse-daemon on /var/lib/gdm/.gvfs type fuse.gvfs-fuse-daemon (rw,nosuid,nodev,user=gdm)
[04:24] <bullgard4> arand: Ah. Now I got what you mean. - Thank you.
[04:25] <DanaG> 2.8 megabytes per second -- ntfs-3g fail.
[04:25]  * Amaranth knows what to do
[04:25] <Amaranth> $ sudo -u gdm chown root:root /var/lib/gdm/.gvfs
[04:25] <Amaranth> chown: changing ownership of `/var/lib/gdm/.gvfs': Function not implemented
[04:25]  * Amaranth giggles
[04:25] <DanaG> It seriously takes less time to reboot to windows, copy the files, and then reboot back to Linux, than it does to copy in Linux.
[04:26] <DanaG> That is, for big files.
[04:26] <Amaranth> DanaG: It's faster in OS X, I think
[04:26] <Amaranth> and it's using MacFUSE and ntfs-3g
[04:27] <Amaranth> Wow, I can't change the permissions on this directory at all
[04:27] <Amaranth> Even with sudo -u gdm
[04:27] <Amaranth> It just silently fails
[04:28] <XiXaQ> have anyone tried xdmcp in karmic yet?
[04:29] <Chazz> So, I'm guessing there's no support for Karmic?
[04:30] <mattwj2002> hi everyone
[04:30] <mattwj2002> :D
[04:30] <mattwj2002> I can't wait until the new version of Ubuntu comes out
[04:30] <WIGGMPk> Chazz what exactly do you mean no support?
[04:30]  * mattwj2002 dances
[04:30] <darthanubis> !hi | mattwj2002
[04:31] <Chazz> as in, no 'crap i broke something' support
[04:31] <WIGGMPk> Chazz would you expect it? its not a stable release
[04:31] <arand> Chazz: We're all volounteers..
[04:32] <DanaG> 2 megabytes per second!  woot.
[04:32] <DanaG> woot as in fail.
[04:32] <DKcross> i cant see the usplash whe ubuntu is booting
[04:32] <DKcross> only see  process
[04:33] <durt> Chazz, this is the channel to ask about KK
[04:33] <Chazz> durt, ya.
[04:33] <mattwj2002> I am going to try 9.10 in vmware
[04:33] <mattwj2002> :)
[04:33] <mattwj2002> 9.10 beta I mean :)
[04:33] <arand> DKcross: yea, i haven't had usplash on boot for ages, works on shutdown though...
[04:34] <DKcross> arand,  but in other computers
[04:34] <DKcross> first start usplash like this
[04:34] <bjsnider> usplash has been deprecated in favour of xsplash
[04:35] <DKcross> arand, http://news.softpedia.com/images/extra/LINUX/large/ubuntu910usplash-large_010.jpg
[04:35] <mattwj2002> bjsnider what is the different between usplash and xsplash?
[04:35] <DanaG> ugh, it's been saying "8 minutes left" for 8 minutes or so.
[04:35] <DKcross> yes bjsnider  but. both are working in other computers
[04:35] <DKcross> mattwj2002,  xsplash works with X
[04:35] <bjsnider> xsplash is actually starting the x server before starting your session, during boot
[04:36] <mattwj2002> oh okay
[04:36] <mattwj2002> :)
[04:36] <NoelJB> coincidentally, I'm currently defragging two xfs volumes.  ext4 is NOT in my future until bug 321528 is marked Fix Released.
[04:36] <Amaranth> DKcross: You're not supposed to see usplash
[04:36] <Amaranth> DKcross: Come on, I've told you this
[04:36] <DanaG> 01 3456789AaBbCcDdEeFfGgHhIiJjKkLlMmNnOoPpQqRrSsTtUuVvWwXxYyZz
[04:36] <DanaG> argh, slashexec loses stuff.
[04:36] <Amaranth> DKcross: When you don't believe the developers you should probably find a different distro
[04:36] <DanaG> Linux EliteBook  .6.31-11-generic #38-Ubuntu SMP Fri Oct   11:06:40 UTC  009 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[04:36] <bjsnider> NoelJB, i'd go with ext4 over xfs. defragmentation is irrelevant
[04:37] <WIGGMPk> Amarath thats not really necessary
[04:37] <arand> Amaranth: so the white ubuntu logo is only supposed to be present on shutdown (that's not usplash then?)
[04:37] <DanaG> Not when your partition is as massively fragmented as mine is.
[04:37] <WIGGMPk> Amaranth: thats not really necessary
[04:37] <bjsnider> ext4 doesn't fragment
[04:37] <DanaG> try my bootcharts...
[04:37] <bjsnider> it preallocates
[04:37] <Amaranth> arand: Right, it should be visible on shutdown (and yes, that's usplash)
[04:37] <DKcross> Amaranth,  do you have any distro?
[04:37] <DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts
[04:37] <DanaG> yes, it's been up to 90% full, and higher.
[04:37] <DKcross> if you are developer ok, but what is you power?
[04:38] <NoelJB> bjsnider, my performance figures beg to differ with you (at least on xfs and defrag).  And keep in mind that my avg file size for the files I care about is > 10GB.
[04:38] <Amaranth> bjsnider: All filesystems fragment
[04:38] <DKcross> respect please.. i have any problems in my computer with karmic i'm not lier
[04:38] <bjsnider> yeah, but that's not what i mean
[04:38] <DanaG> ata5: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x4000000 action 0xe frozen
[04:38] <Amaranth> DKcross: But you're not listening to me either
[04:38] <Amaranth> DKcross: Do you want me to find you the changelog entry?
[04:39] <bjsnider> NoelJB, have you ever tried to delete a file that big on an xfs drive?
[04:39] <DKcross> Amaranth,  nop
[04:39] <DKcross> but, i haver other five HP desktop computer
[04:39] <DKcross> and today installed karmic
[04:39] <NoelJB> bjsnider, of course.  did several of them today.
[04:39] <DKcross> and in this case
[04:40] <bjsnider> NoelJB, it took forever and chewed up a bunch of cpu power
[04:40] <DKcross> they are booting firts with usplash, next, xsplash, next gdm, and next xsplash
[04:40] <NoelJB> bjsnider, not here.  would be interesting to know why our experiences differ.
[04:40] <DKcross> first screen is <Amaranth> DKcross: When you don't believe the developers you should probably find a different distro
[04:40] <DKcross> ups
[04:40] <DKcross> Amaranth,  first http://news.softpedia.com/images/extra/LINUX/large/ubuntu910usplash-large_010.jpg
[04:40] <NoelJB> bjsnider, I do most of my work in VMware.  I have many very large vmdk files, and performance for that sort of file is the most important.
[04:41] <bjsnider> xfs has known problems with deleting large files
[04:41] <DanaG> I get text-mode, xsplash, gdm, xsplash, gdmwall, mywall
[04:41] <Amaranth> DKcross: http://pastie.org/640987
[04:41] <DanaG> so yeah, it goes back to gdm wallpaper for a moment before showing my wallpaper.
[04:41] <Amaranth> DKcross: That's a screenshot from shutdown
[04:42] <bjsnider> DanaG, that's exactly what i get here
[04:42] <DKcross> Amaranth, please, respect to me, i only have problems, I'm not dummie ok?
[04:42] <Amaranth> DKcross: Your problem is not the fact that usplash doesn't start. This is what I'm trying to tell you.
[04:43] <DKcross> I'm not here lying
[04:43] <bjsnider> DanaG, how fast does your boot happen from text mode to the finished desktop?
[04:44] <DanaG> Mine takes a long time.. check my bootcharts.
[04:44] <DanaG> Count "nautilus running" as usable desktop.
[04:44] <bjsnider> yeah, that's fine
[04:45] <Amaranth> DKcross: You're here saying something is broken that isn't supposed to work.
[04:45] <WRdHat_> aqui
[04:45] <WRdHat_> q ondas aki stoy
[04:45] <DKcross> are two things diferents
[04:45] <bjsnider> Amaranth, maybe he means xsplash
[04:45] <DKcross> WRdHat_,  english
[04:46] <WRdHat_> sorry
[04:47] <DKcross> Amaranth,  ok, this my friend  WRdHat_  , in his computer works like... first usplash, second xsplash, login screen and other time xsplash
[04:47] <WIGGMPk> I know this is for support.. but anyone have a take on upgrading to beta now?
[04:47] <DKcross> i'm not lying here..
[04:47] <Amaranth> DKcross: But you aren't listening either
[04:47] <Amaranth> DKcross: It is his system that is malfunctioning, not yours
[04:48] <DKcross> Amaranth, first a black screen...with ubuntu logo rigth?
[04:48] <Amaranth> no
[04:48] <NoelJB> DKcross, for those of us who haven't been following your problem(s), can you summarize?
[04:48] <Amaranth> It should be a black screen, some text, then the logo with the progress bar
[04:48] <Amaranth> NoelJB: He thinks a line printed by the kernel is slowing his system down and that his system is broken because usplash isn't starting
[04:49] <DKcross> Amaranth, ok, but are two things diferents!
[04:49] <Amaranth> NoelJB: But the warning printed by the kernel is for a problem that existed in jaunty too, the kernel just didn't warn about it
[04:49] <WRdHat_> 	 I get my first black screen
[04:49] <Amaranth> NoelJB: And since we're trying to get rid of all that text other things happen but don't say anything so it looks like it stalled on that line
[04:50] <WRdHat_> then the second load screen where the bar
[04:50] <NoelJB> Amaranth, ah.  I don't have splash on my boot.  just quiet.  I like seeing the messages scroll by and see what is happening.
[04:50] <Amaranth> WRdHat_: Does the black screen have a white ubuntu logo on it?
[04:50] <DKcross> NoelJB, well are two problems .. first "bar 06"
[04:50] <NoelJB> and the code hasn't been working to show me the messages on the splash display.
[04:50] <WRdHat_> yes
[04:51] <Amaranth> WRdHat_: You have cryptsetup installed
[04:51] <Amaranth> Problem solved
[04:51] <Amaranth> DKcross: Install cryptsetup, it'll fix all your problems
[04:51] <DKcross> Amaranth, ?
[04:51] <WRdHat_> the first screen is the black
[04:51] <Amaranth> cryptsetup installs the trigger that makes usplash come up on boot even if you don't use it for encrypted partitions
[04:52] <WRdHat_> i should install cryptsetup??
[04:52] <DKcross> but, i cant belive then.. if i say no?
[04:52] <NoelJB> Amaranth, is that being installed by default now?  I see that on a VM to which I had done a fresh install.
[04:52] <Amaranth> NoelJB: I don't think so
[04:52] <Amaranth> Maybe they fixed cryptsetup to not do that anymore :)
[04:52] <bjsnider> if it's automatic why doesn't the other guy have it
[04:52] <DKcross> Amaranth,  good idea, but i think this not solution
[04:52] <Amaranth> DKcross: It'll give you usplash
[04:53] <Amaranth> DKcross: But the bar 6 thing is NOTABUG
[04:53] <DKcross> is  not import for me
[04:53] <Amaranth> jaunty had the same "problem" it just didn't tell you about it
[04:53] <DKcross> the usplash
[04:53] <DKcross> but is a problem
[04:53] <DKcross> i think is good report this bug
[04:53] <Amaranth> Your boot being slower than jaunty is unfortunate but so is mine so no sympathy from me
[04:53] <WRdHat_> the usplash is the problem??
[04:53] <DKcross> or if you think or you say, this no bug ok
[04:53] <arand> Amaranth: usplash has simply been deemed redundant in the boot speed race? There will be a period of black screen instead until xsplash fires up?
[04:54] <Amaranth> arand: Right, we're trying to get xsplash to start ASAP
[04:54] <Amaranth> arand: Ideally almost instantly on a SSD and after a couple seconds on HDD
[04:54] <gsevil> after update to 9.10, my screen resolution is only 1024x768, someone help me pls
[04:54] <NoelJB> Amaranth, I thought that starting xsplash early required kvm
[04:55] <Amaranth> KMS
[04:55] <bjsnider> gsevil, which graphics card?
[04:55] <NoelJB> yes, thanks.  :-)
[04:55] <Amaranth> And yes, KMS does help shave a couple seconds off because X doesn't have to set the mode
[04:55] <gsevil> bjsnider: ati 200m
[04:55] <arand> Amaranth: ok, I always assumed that the
[04:55] <NoelJB> Amaranth, any idea if/when KMS will be nvidia supported?
[04:55] <bjsnider> kms is a different driver. xsplash uses the actual graphics driver
[04:55] <Amaranth> Right now the kernel is setting a silly mode then X is setting the right one which wastes time
[04:55] <gsevil> bjsnider: ati express 1100
[04:55] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Never, they'd have to open source their driver to add support for it
[04:55] <bjsnider> NoelJB, not unless nouveau creates a kms driver
[04:56] <bjsnider> wait, they did
[04:56] <NoelJB> bjsnider, I have little expectation for nouveau.
[04:56] <bjsnider> use the nouveau driver and you'll have kms
[04:56] <gsevil> bjsnider: here is my xorg log http://paste.ubuntu.com/285135/
[04:56] <bjsnider> nouveau is in decent shape
[04:56] <NoelJB> I'd rather that my system worked properly than shave a few seconds off a boot.
[04:56] <arand> Amaranth: ok, I've read quite a bit about it, but still hadn't understood that the white logo was meant just for shutdown :)
[04:57] <NoelJB> bjsnider, too bad we can't use nouveau at boot, and switch to the real driver.
[04:57] <bjsnider> gsevil, Radeon Xpress 200M
[04:58] <bjsnider> NoelJB, someday nouveau will be the preferred nvidia driver
[04:59] <NoelJB> bjsnider, before the Rio Olympics?
[04:59] <Amaranth> NoelJB: I'm thinking Ubuntu 10.10 :)
[04:59] <gsevil> bjsnider: yes, it is, and in xorg log, there is no VESA mode for 1280x800, what's the problem
[04:59] <NoelJB> z\
[04:59] <NoelJB> a
[04:59] <NoelJB> z
 fat fingers
[05:00] <bjsnider> gsevil, it looks like you're using the vesa driver. try switching to the radeon driver
[05:00] <bjsnider> NoelJB, yes, i'd say before then
[05:00] <NoelJB> Amaranth, so a year from now.  and do you expect it to be better than the real driver by then, or just acceptable?
[05:01] <bjsnider> everything falls into place when they get the gallium work done
[05:01] <DanaG> Right now, on old hardware at least, nouveau is better than nvidia... by "old hardware" I mean gf4mx.
[05:01] <Amaranth> NoelJB: I'm pretty sure it'll blow the nvidia driver away for 2D (just like the ati driver does vs fglrx)
[05:01] <DanaG> nvidia binary: *segfault* *segfault* *segfault* *segfault* *segfault*
[05:01] <gsevil> bjsnider: is radeon driver open source too, 'cause since 9.04 ati did't support my graphic card anymore
[05:01] <Amaranth> NoelJB: I doubt 3D will ever get past 80% of the performance of the nvidia driver
[05:01] <bjsnider> actually nouveau is already very good on everything except 3d
[05:01] <DanaG> And suspend-to-RAM.
[05:01] <WRdHat_> ???
[05:01] <bjsnider> ok, you sghould never do that
[05:01] <Amaranth> bjsnider: Yeah, it already blows the nvidia driver away for 2D :)
[05:02] <NoelJB> Without suspend-to-RAM it is a non-starter for mem.
[05:02] <NoelJB> s/mem/me/
[05:02] <WRdHat_> exactly
[05:02] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Well mjg59 is supposed to be working on that...
[05:02] <Amaranth> NoelJB: And KMS helps
[05:02] <bjsnider> unless i had ECC ram, i wouldn't suspend to it
[05:02] <NoelJB> Well, I have a lot of respect for Matt :-)
[05:03] <bjsnider> NoelJB, try the fedora live nouveau testing image that was released a few weeks ago. it's cool
[05:03] <NoelJB> Amaranth, but since compiz leverages 3D, doesn't that make nouveau less than ideal for compiz?
[05:04] <DanaG> hmm, last time I tried compiz on a self-built nouveau on the 4MX... it actually worked..... until a new window opened, and it crashed.
[05:04] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Yeah but compiz also doesn't need much performance
[05:04] <DanaG> But in the absence of new windows, it worked.
[05:04] <NoelJB> DanaG, yes, but we're talking a year or two from now.
[05:04] <Amaranth> See, they're getting close :)
[05:04] <DanaG> No pixel shaders, though -- that's nvidia's pathetic-ness.
[05:04] <DanaG> Because apparently 1+1=4.  MX.
[05:04] <DanaG> (that is, the 4 MX is really a 2.)
[05:04] <bjsnider> gallium will fix the 3d problems eventually
[05:04] <durt> hey folks, any one else lose uhf on a philips saa713x tuner card with recent updates?
[05:05] <NoelJB> By the time 2011 rolls around, who knows what I'll have for a GPU.  :-)
[05:05]  * DanaG plans to stick with ATI.
[05:05] <DanaG> At least fglrx lets you use xrandr.
[05:05] <DKcross> NoelJB,  i have this problem, i know this a past problem, but you know what is a really problem ? http://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/32238/
[05:06] <DanaG> I plug in an HDMI display, it automatically, instantly switches to clone mode at the right resolution for the thing.
[05:06] <DKcross> before start karmic shows like 20 seconds or more,
[05:06] <NoelJB> DKcross, isn't that the one that everyone's been saying is meaningless?  I see several of those at boot time.  Doesn't appear to affect performance.
[05:06] <DKcross> next karmic boot, for 5 - 9 seconds
[05:07] <NoelJB> actually, no.  I see something similar.
[05:07] <Amaranth> DanaG: Heck not even intel is going that for me
[05:07] <DanaG> mmm, a new low for ntfs-3g: 655 kilobytes per second.
[05:08] <DanaG> SATA should never, ever be that slow.
[05:08] <Amaranth> DanaG: I have to open up gnome-display-properties then it automatically extends my desktop
[05:08] <NoelJB> the new message that I see since the upstart changes is that /dev/null is missing.  seems that something is trying to use it before it exists.
[05:08] <DanaG> hmm, check in gconf... there are some plugins not enabled by default.
[05:08] <bjsnider> DanaG, it doesn't dot hat in windows, switch to clone mode automatically like that
[05:08] <Amaranth> DanaG: iirc gnome-settings-daemon also sets up a hotkey for this
[05:08] <DanaG> apps/gnome-settings-daemon/
[05:08] <DanaG> hmm, Vista does that for me, even on nvidia.  Or rather, switches to clone, and then asks you what you want.
[05:09] <NoelJB> DanaG, huh?  I can use xrandr.  What can't?
[05:09] <bjsnider> the second you plug it in?
[05:09] <gsevil> bjsnider: thanks, i use radeon driver and it's work well
[05:09] <DanaG> Or about 1-2 seconds later.
[05:09] <bjsnider> NoelJB, you cannot rotate the screen
[05:09] <DanaG> Close enough to be subjectively not slow.
[05:09] <bjsnider> they haven't added xrandr 1.2 support yet
[05:09] <NoelJB> bjsnider, oh, ok.  I sometimes use it for resolution change.
[05:09] <Amaranth> DanaG: Every plugin is enabled for me except xrdb (which you really don't want)
[05:09] <DanaG> what's xrdb?
[05:10] <Amaranth> DanaG: It reads your GTK+ theme settings and generates some config plain old xlib apps use to set their colors
[05:10] <Amaranth> DanaG: But to do so it uses cpp (C preprocessor) which is a bit... slow
[05:11] <DanaG> oh yeah, by the way, I'm on fglrx.
[05:11] <Amaranth> DanaG: So unless you plan on using xcdroast any time soon you don't need it :)
[05:11] <DanaG> or xterm (Xilinx tools won't use gnome-terminal), since non-dpi-scaled text is tiny.
[05:11] <DanaG> But I just edited the .Xresource file myself.
[05:11] <bjsnider> NoelJB, nvidia is mainly concerned with their workstation customers, and what the needs of those people are. so you'll find the drivers work particularly well for those types of workloads and tasks
[05:12] <Moc> switch to empathy seem a bad idea so far, too many issues with it
[05:12] <bjsnider> it's never possible to satisfy a linux enthusiast
[05:12] <Amaranth> Yeah, nvidia is wicked fast and stable for 3D modeling and CUDA
[05:12] <Moc> also, vlc playback doesn't disable screen saver
[05:12] <Amaranth> But they do the least work possible for desktop use cases
[05:12] <NoelJB> Moc, so install pidgin  :-)
[05:12] <bjsnider> Amaranth, see last message for why
[05:13] <Amaranth> bjsnider: I know why, was just explaining the different use cases a bit more
[05:13] <Moc> NoelJB: Too much trouble, it already with 9.04 ;)
[05:13] <Moc> with more user, empathy might be on for 10.04
[05:13] <NoelJB> Moc, so if you don't want pidgin, why knock empathy?
[05:14] <Moc> NoelJB: because Im having issues with empathy rightnow, Im not against it, just say it not ready
[05:15] <arand> Moc: I'm guessing you wouldn't want to put in new an relatively untested apps in an LTS hmm?
[05:15] <Moc> and I got a gdb process hang now after empthy crashed
[05:15] <Moc> 9.10 is not LTS I hope ?
[05:15] <NoelJB> no, 10.04 is LTS
[05:15] <bjsnider> it isn't
[05:16] <Moc> ha k fiouf
[05:16] <arand> Moc: nope, but 10.04 is supposed to be..
[05:16] <Moc> by 10.04 those issues might be fixed
[05:16] <mattwj2002> I can't wait until Gnome 3.0
[05:16] <mattwj2002> :D
[05:16] <arand> hence it's probably better to stick in empathy now rtather than later...
[05:17] <Moc> yep, but it why I'll stick to 9.04 for the moment.  I use ubuntu 17h/24h
[05:17] <arand> I have a vague fear that gnome3 will be my que to find another DE, for a couple of release cycles...
[05:18] <NoelJB> Moc, good luck.  jaunty has never worked for me.  kernel traps all too often.  karmic has been stabler from the first alpha than jaunty.  I keep testing to see if it ever gets fixed, but nope.
[05:19] <Moc> 9.04 been stable since... april ;)
[05:19] <mattwj2002> ubuntu 9.04 has been kind of buggy for me
[05:19] <mattwj2002> I am upgrading to it right now
[05:19] <NoelJB> mattwj2002, why, since karmic is almost ready for release?
[05:19] <Amaranth> mattwj2002: 3.0 won't be in 10.04 and the only new part is gnome-shell
[05:19] <arand> Yea, solid, although 9.04 has started to kernel panic form me on shurdown, for some reason or other
[05:20] <Moc> Maybe Im just used to the issues and learn to live with it
[05:20] <Amaranth> mattwj2002: But you can't use compiz with gnome-shell...
[05:20] <chris_> what is the easiest way to update 9.04 to 9.1
[05:20] <mattwj2002> I am upgrading to 9.04 because I want to try the newest pidgin
[05:20] <mattwj2002> it has voice and video function
[05:20] <Moc> I do have kernel panic when someone get near my computer with an evil Apple USB product... but except that it fine
[05:20] <mattwj2002> :)
[05:20] <NoelJB> arand, I wonder if you have one of the newer issues I saw.  I have to turn my WIFI radio off (kill switch) and then shutdown jaunty.  If I do that, it prevents that particular kernel trap.
[05:21] <Amaranth> Moc: Sorry, I guess I should remove the code that checks the Vendor ID and panics if it finds apple
[05:21]  * DanaG will NEVAIRE give up compiz.
[05:21]  * NoelJB LOL @ Amaranth 
[05:21] <Amaranth> DanaG: Right on
[05:21]  * Amaranth hugs DanaG
[05:21] <mattwj2002> hehe
[05:22] <Moc> Amaranth: I actually dont mind... maybe just replace with a 10second fake kernel panic instead would do fine
[05:22] <mattwj2002> at least you didn't keep in the code that does a sudo rm -rf / if it found Vendor ID of apple
[05:22] <mattwj2002> ;)
[05:22] <NoelJB> Amaranth, so 10.10 before Gnome 3 and compiz?
[05:22] <chu_> Jaunty doesn't support my acpi readings out of the box (Jaunty on 2.6.30 here), but hopefully Karmic will - I'm thinking of upgrading to 9.10 beta .. I have a separate /home partition (though, I also have a 500gb hdd here if backing up would still be wisest move), does anyone ave any documentation on doing an update? This is my only computer, so I'll probably have to write stuff down (just in case somethng goes bad)
[05:22] <arand> NoelJB: intriguing, I'll try that, I've just set up the framebuffer so I'll be albe to have a peek at the shutdown messages and/or panics
[05:22] <Moc> I disable compiz now... I like the effect, but is too slow with multiple windows open..
[05:23] <mattwj2002> so 9.10 will have the gnome-shell?
[05:23] <DanaG> I use dream/sidekick open close for regular windows, vacuum for menus, and lamp for minimize/unminimize.
[05:23] <bjsnider> DanaG, you'll give up compiz for mutter
[05:23] <XiXaQ> why am I being forwarded to help.ubuntu.com when I try to file a bug on karmic?
[05:23] <Amaranth> NoelJB: In 10.10 it'll be a fight between Gnome 3.0 and compiz
[05:23] <DanaG> No, mutter's animations sucked last time I tried it.
[05:24] <bjsnider> mattwj2002, it does have gnome-shell
[05:24] <DanaG> Shrink to the middle even on minimize... makes no sense.
[05:24] <mattwj2002> sweet
[05:24] <mattwj2002> :D
[05:24] <DanaG> Minimizing should NOT be the same as closing!
[05:24] <Amaranth> bjsnider: Sure, let's replace compiz with something slower and buggier
[05:24] <NoelJB> Amaranth, I was assuming that the goal is to have Gnome 3.0 work with compiz.  No?
[05:24] <Amaranth> NoelJB: No
[05:24] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Upstream is shutting us out completely
[05:24] <DanaG> That's bull.
[05:24] <NoelJB> Amaranth, why?!?!
[05:25] <NoelJB> That seems rather nasty.
[05:25]  * Dr_Willis liked Metisse.
[05:25] <DanaG> I've always been taught that tying stuff that should be separate, together too tightly, is bad coding style.
[05:25] <bjsnider> mutter replaces compiz
[05:25] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Because they believe the only way to provide a good interface is to merge the window manager and the panel
[05:25] <Amaranth> NoelJB: What they really mean is the only way to do their worthless sidebar UI is to merge the two
[05:25] <bjsnider> very much like apple
[05:26] <DanaG> Oh, and I could click the "Applications" button about 20 times before it actually finished the animation.
[05:26] <DanaG> Yeah, you can't replace Apple's WM, period.
[05:26] <Amaranth> bjsnider: mutter is slower and buggier than compiz and you have to use javascript to write plugins for it :P
 Like I give a rat's behind about their sidebar?
[05:26] <Amaranth> bjsnider: and it requires 3D which is why we probably won't have gnome-shell in Ubuntu
[05:26] <Moc> I ratter go back to windows than use macosx
[05:26] <DanaG> Same here!
[05:26] <Amaranth> Not in the default install anyway
[05:26] <Amaranth> OS X is pretty nice, actually
[05:26] <bjsnider> i have no problem with it because i use a driver that provides 3d
[05:27] <DanaG> hey, try to resize the upper-left side of a window.
[05:27] <DanaG> Oh wait, you can't.
[05:27] <DanaG> oh, and press home and end keys.... nope, they don't work.
[05:27] <Moc> Amaranth: It force the user to do it 1 way...  I rarely see mac user with different interface
[05:27] <bjsnider> Amaranth, are you mark shuttleworth?
[05:27] <Moc> I want my file/edit/... in my windows.
[05:27] <Amaranth> bjsnider: No...
[05:27] <bjsnider> praising osx like you are...
[05:27] <Moc> so when I work with multiple screen, I don't need to switch screen to acces my options
[05:28] <NoelJB> bjsnider, you do realize that you can query people's IDs, don't you?
[05:28] <Amaranth> bjsnider: He started praising OS X after I sent him my resume praising it ;)
[05:28] <bjsnider> i was trying to make a joke
[05:28] <NoelJB> bjsnider, ah, ok
[05:28] <DanaG> at least in firefox and safari address bar, and such.
[05:28] <Dr_Willis> Its all been downhill since C64 Geos. :P
[05:28] <Amaranth> bjsnider: Literally, I sent him my CV with a little bit about OS X in the cover letter then the next day he says almost the same thing in an interview :P
[05:29] <Amaranth> At that point I thought I had the job for sure...
[05:29] <bjsnider> Amaranth, you must have made an impression because he's been using every new distro as an opportunity to introduce some new feature that osx has
[05:30] <bjsnider> this time around it's fast boot times
[05:30] <Amaranth> bjsnider: I believe I said OS X users were willing to ignore a lot of the many problems of OS X because it looks good
[05:30] <Moc> One thing that I like, is the default theme have the console in black/grey output, like the icon representing it ;)
[05:30] <bjsnider> oh, i see. how deft
[05:31] <bjsnider> the apple slaves i know can't see any flaws
[05:31] <Moc> s/I like/I would like/g
[05:31] <DanaG> oh, and on my mom's iMac, Safari always always always resets itself to 4x6 photo paper setting.
[05:31] <Amaranth> bjsnider: But stretched out to a paragraph or two
[05:31] <DanaG> Every damn time you go to print.
[05:31] <DanaG> I just have her use Firefox instead.
[05:31] <Amaranth> DanaG: Every app in OS X does that
[05:31] <DanaG> No, Safari was even worse...
[05:31] <Moc> I have issues with printing in 9.04 that enveloppe were print in the wrong direction
[05:31] <Amaranth> DanaG: My grandpa couldn't print photos for 18 months because I couldn't figure out how to change it back to 4x6 borderless on the photo tray
[05:31] <DanaG> I'd create a Letter profile set to Letter paper, and then choose that profile.... and it would still say "4x6 photo".
[05:32] <DanaG> I wish there were a Photoshop Elements for Linux... honestly, it would work far better, judging from the troubles we've had.
[05:32] <Moc> anyway, there is alot of little stuff that could make ubuntu cleaner for me, and my accounting lady who I force ubuntu uppon her ;)
[05:32] <Amaranth> Moc: papercuts project
[05:32] <Amaranth> 100 every release
[05:33] <Moc> Amaranth: Im too lazy to fill out bug reports, and when I do, they get look at months latter ;)
[05:33] <DanaG> OOh, 65535 Bytes per second.
[05:33] <DanaG> NTFS-3G really does suck.
[05:34] <Moc> I now I either just complaint in irc channels and hope someone is borred and want to fix it, I try to fix it myself or I endure the issue ;)
[05:34] <bjsnider> note to self: "DanaG doesn't dig ntfs-3g"
[05:34] <arand> Hmm, I think like they should do a "Fyfty mortal wounds" project as well...
[05:34] <DanaG> It's taking literally hours to copy a file that should've taken 1/2 hour, tops.
[05:34] <arand> *Fifty.
[05:35] <Moc> It like for ubuntu server, I wanted to switch all my infrastructure to it, but it seem the gcc compiler mod and gdb mod are bad and not recommended for server use.
[05:35]  * DanaG votes to replace all of the gnome devs' cars with all exactly the same model of car.
[05:35] <DanaG> See, you don't need choice!
[05:35] <omegamormegil> I just installed the Karmic UNR beta and I get stuck in an endless reboot loop when the computer tries to boot.  I didn't see a bug report.  Anybody else hear of this problem?
[05:35] <NoelJB> DanaG, perhaps, but NTFS is the only file system we have that supports > 2GB files and can be exchanged with another OS.
[05:35] <bjsnider> DanaG, you could always use the k desktop environment
[05:36] <NoelJB> DanaG, how big is this file?  I copy 50GB in less time than that.
[05:36] <arand> DanaG: And make their carparks designed so you end up parking on top of others...
[05:36] <DanaG> 5.9 gigs.
[05:36] <bjsnider> NoelJB, ext3 is supported with a driver in windows
[05:36] <Moc> Also it weird, I'm trying to work with evolution (and will probably not continue try it), and I just notice the cancel icon is used for delete... weird
[05:36] <NoelJB> bjsnider, oh, yeah.  great.  I'll remember that when I'm in a meeting and need to provide files.  ;-)
[05:36] <DanaG> oh, and now Apple has their own HFS+ driver for Windows.
[05:37] <DanaG> But Linux won't do hfs+ journaling.
[05:37] <bjsnider> hfs+  is horrible
[05:37] <bjsnider> all apple users hate it
[05:37] <Moc> I don't hear much love for it neither
[05:37] <chris_> will amarok work on 9.1? it is giving me an error
[05:38] <dtchen> for those of you dist-upgrading right now, be aware of bug 441936
[05:38] <Amaranth> chris_: Try again monday
[05:38] <chris_> what is happening then?
[05:38] <NoelJB> is there an HFS+ file system driver for us?
[05:38] <DanaG> well, when SATA is being slower than a serial port..... yeah, that's failure.
[05:39] <arand> DanaG: Although it can be argued that Gnome's way of doing things is liek ensuring that every car has a steering wheel, and not a joystick/arowwkeys/mouse/footsense -control :)
[05:39] <DanaG> And all the knobs and gauges in exactly the same place, too.
[05:39] <DanaG> That's the problem.
[05:39]  * Moc back to his PBX work
[05:40] <arand> Since rather than putting all the knobs and gauges in the same place... they just remove them.
[05:40] <arand> Getting late, starting to rant, good night.
[05:47] <webbb82> there must have jjust been a big update i already installed the karmiic beta and it just  did 174 new updates
[05:49] <vigo_> webbb82: I think there was, I am on Karmic Development and just checked, got a bunch.
[05:51] <vigo_> I thought that NM was being replaced , but am uncertain as to when or why.
[05:52] <Xgates> say I'm reading this for Karmic and Macbook pro:
[05:52] <Xgates> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro5-5/Karmic?highlight=%28%28MacBookPro5-5|Karmic%29%29
[05:53] <ryanprior> So... I tried Karmic, and my wireless and sound don't work. :-(
[05:53] <Xgates> under the Keyboard Functions section it says pommed doesn't recognize Macbook Po 5,5 yet and to install the nvidia source and glk 190, what the heck is glk 190?
[05:53] <ryanprior> (they work on Ubuntu 8.10, my current distro)
[05:55] <vigo> Xgates: That is also in Jaunty.
[05:56] <Xgates> what is this glk 190 I can't find this to install
[05:58] <Xgates> on that URL I posted in the keyboard functions section it says this:
[05:58] <Xgates> (after installing nvidia_bl_dkms) F1/F2, dimming the LCD brightness (need to install nvidia kernel source and glk 190) pommed doesn't recognize Macbook Po 5,5 yet.
[05:59] <vigo> Xgates: Are you using jaunty in /etc/apt/sources.list?
[05:59] <Voss> ryan, do your wireless and sound work in jaunty?
[06:01] <httpdss> hi, im having problems with my existing user after upgrade from jaunty. after entering password, gnome starts to load and after 2 or 3 seconds hundreds of nautilus windows start to open. i created a new user and this problem cant be reproduced with the new user. to solve this i have to switch to tty1 and do "killall nautilus" until it says "no process running" ... strange... anybody having same issue ? or have an idea on how to solve it ?
[06:01] <Xgates> for the mactel ppa I added these in:
[06:01] <Xgates> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/mactel-support/ubuntu jaunty main
[06:01] <Xgates> deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/mactel-support/ubuntu jaunty main
[06:01] <vigo> Xgates: That is what I just sorta understood from that.
[06:02] <Xgates> vigo you said ----> <vigo> Xgates: Are you using jaunty in /etc/apt/sources.list?
[06:02] <Xgates> I said ---> for the mactel ppa I added these in:
[06:02] <Xgates> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/mactel-support/ubuntu jaunty main deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/mactel-support/ubuntu jaunty main
[06:03] <Xgates> second line --- deb-src....
[06:03] <vigo> Xgates: Yes, on the Karmic site/page it said use the jaunty in sources, one moment, trying to locate it again.
[06:03] <DanaG> aah, 15 megabytes per second... that'll actually mean the transfer will actually finish.
[06:04] <Xgates> vigo: ---> Package Support for Intel Macs
[06:04] <Xgates> I did that :)
[06:04] <Xgates> Install the modules from the MactelSupportTeam/PPA. Use jaunty in your /etc/apt/sources.list because the karmic PPA for Mactel is rather empty as of yet, and the Jaunty packages seem to work fine:
[06:04] <Xgates> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/mactel-support/ubuntu jaunty main
[06:04] <Xgates> deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/mactel-support/ubuntu jaunty main
[06:05] <Xgates> vigo: I did that already :)
[06:05] <Dr_Willis> httpdss:  you could try cleaning out most of the problem users gnome settings.. one may be causing the issue.. sunce a NEW user has no issues.
[06:05] <Dr_Willis> httpdss:  but  be carefull you dont remove settings they want to keep
[06:05] <Xgates> vigo: SCROLL down to ---->  Keyboard Functions
[06:05] <Xgates> vigo: (after installing nvidia_bl_dkms) F1/F2, dimming the LCD brightness (need to install nvidia kernel source and glk 190) pommed doesn't recognize Macbook Po 5,5 yet.
[06:06] <Xgates> vigo: WHAT is glk 190 ? That's my question :)
[06:06] <vigo> Xgates: Ok, still looking, doc gave me some pain pills for my hands, so am a little slow at using peripherals.
[06:07] <Xgates> lol
[06:07] <Xgates> vigo: no worries I just want to know what the heck his glk 190 is to install cause I see no pkg named this anywher
[06:07] <Xgates> anywhere...
[06:07] <Xgates> his/this glk....
[06:09] <httpdss> Dr_Willis, which could be the folder to delete in order to reset gnome settings ?? i've checked on .xsession-errors and i can see all the spwned nautilus sessions, but no clue on who's the source :S
[06:09] <Dr_Willis> httpdss:  theres several of them.  .gnome*  .gtk*
[06:09] <Dr_Willis> httpdss:   someof them proberly have naitulus dirs. I just tend to clean them ALL out.. but im carefull to save my transmission 'settings'
[06:10] <Dr_Willis> thats the only program i got thats got any settings i worry about.
[06:10] <httpdss> ;)
[06:10] <Dr_Willis> I saw some url on resetting the gnome settings.. on Del.ici.ous once
[06:11] <httpdss> Dr_Willis, hmm i use dropbox and if those settings are removed im fried :P
[06:11] <Dr_Willis> http://linuxfud.wordpress.com/2007/02/14/how-to-reset-ubuntugnome-settings-to-defaults-without-re-installing/
[06:11] <Dr_Willis> Never used dropbox. no idea on it.
[06:12] <httpdss> thx 4 link !
[06:12] <Dr_Willis> backup the dirs you alter.clean..  I guess.. then restore the settings files later
[06:12] <Dr_Willis> all that url does is say delete these 5 dirs.... a little extreme. :)
[06:12] <Dr_Willis> not a very well done artical. :)
[06:15] <httpdss> hehehe, yes very extremist approach! i'll move them to some folder and see what happens
[06:15] <Dr_Willis> wow.. i just got a 'this pc chouls be scanned with our antivirus software' popup.....
[06:15] <Dr_Willis> http://computer-antivirus06.com/scan1/?pid=71&engine=pHTyzjjuNDQzLjE1OC4yMDAmdGltZT0xMjUyNMkNPAhM
[06:15] <Dr_Willis> gotta love fake virus alls.
[06:16] <Xgates> I think I got it --->    glk    Matrix Orbital GLK graphical LCD displays
[06:16] <Xgates>  
[06:17] <vigo> Xgates: Did you see this one? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MactelSupportTeam/CommunityHelpPages
[06:17] <NoelJB> Xgates, you sure you don't mean glx?
[06:18] <NoelJB> Xgates, nvidia-glx-190
[06:18] <Xgates> NoelJB: Well I guess it's a typo then:
[06:18] <Xgates> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro5-5/Karmic?highlight=%28%28MacBookPro5-5|Karmic%29%29
[06:19] <Xgates>  Keyboard Functions
[06:19] <vigo> I kept getting all sorta off the wall stuff using GLK
[06:19] <Xgates> (after installing nvidia_bl_dkms) F1/F2, dimming the LCD brightness (need to install nvidia kernel source and glk 190) pommed doesn't recognize Macbook Po 5,5 yet.
[06:20] <Xgates> vigo: where did you find this GLK pkg?
[06:20] <Xgates> what name is it listed as?
[06:20] <vigo> Xgates: I looked at the MacTel things. learned alot.
[06:20] <DanaG> hmm, isn't policykit supposed to allow "remember authorization"?
[06:21] <DanaG> And isn't the gnome policykit thingy supposed to show devicekit stuff?
[06:21] <Xgates> NoelJB: so you think that's a typo, it's suppose to read glx-190?
[06:21] <DanaG> For me, it does neither.
[06:22] <vigo> I found a GLK mercedes benz, those are sweet looking cars.
[06:24] <vigo> Somone on this forum stated that 9.10 worked OTB, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1245957
[06:24] <NoelJB> Xgates, seems so, from context.
[06:24] <Xgates> NoelJB: the thing is there is no glx-190 Nvidia isn't that high in versions there is only 180
[06:24] <NoelJB> Xgates, but bjsnider's PPA is where you'd get that.  ubuntu doesn't ship that version yet.
[06:25] <NoelJB> https://launchpad.net/~nvidia-vdpau/+archive/ppa
[06:26] <vigo> Thank you NoelJB: I closed that by mistake.
[06:26] <NoelJB> vigo, closed what?
[06:27] <vigo> That launchpad window.
[06:27] <Xgates> NoelJB: oh I thought all we needed was the Jaunty for MactelSupportTeam/PPA in the sources.list
[06:27] <Xgates> that's all the Wiki says
[06:27] <Xgates> hmm
[06:29] <NoelJB> Xgates, <<shrug>> I don't have a MacBook.   And, FWIW, there is a new 190.36 driver, but Brandon hasn't put it in the PPA yet.
[06:30] <Xgates> NoelJB: I'm just saying what the Wiki says is all, which doesn't mention any of this, that's all, out of date wiki :(
[06:30] <Xgates> I guess he wrote and then forgets to add the driver hehe
[06:31] <vigo> Funny stuff
[06:32] <Xgates> this ppa:nvidia-vdpau/ppa  to your system's Software Sources, Karmic is doing something different then /etc/apt/sources.list?
[06:33] <NoelJB> I still do them the same way as always.
[06:34] <Xgates> but is Karmic implementing a new method?
[06:34] <NoelJB> no clue.  haven't tried it.  seems something geared for newbies.
[06:34] <Xgates> according to that site you just add in --->  ppa:nvidia-vdpau/ppa
[06:34] <NoelJB> I don't like modifying sources.list.  I add per source files to sources.list.d/
[06:35] <Xgates> oh so Karmic is going to have a simpler method for adding in
[06:35] <bullgard4> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/beta: "Please open bugs with the tag "ubuntu-boot-experience" on any messages you see flashed after grub loads and before the new Ubuntu Splash screen (xsplash) displays." is awkward English. Can you explain in plain English what is meant?
[06:36] <Xgates> NoelJB: oh my bad the GUI 'Software Sources
[06:36] <Xgates> LOL
[06:36]  * Xgates bangs head
[06:38] <yoota> how do i upgrade?
[06:39] <gsevil> how can I config upstart? after use bum (boot up manager) my ubuntu 9.10 crash after disk check, but when I boot to recovery mode, then resume, it boot normal, but I have to run startx to get to GUI
[06:39] <yoota> do i change /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades
[06:39] <yoota>  ???
[06:39] <yoota> or apt-get dist-upgrade ?
[06:40] <hifi> !upgrade
[06:41] <Dr_Willis> bullgard4:   'you see scrolling  after grub'.......   is a little clearer
[06:41] <hifi> !upgrade karmic
[06:41] <hifi> !karmic
[06:41] <hifi> hm, my ubottu-fu is low
[06:41] <hifi> I'm quite certain ubottu knows how to upgrade from jaunty to karmic
[06:41] <Dr_Willis> and i see several messages after grub. befor xsplash :) proberly 8-10 of them
[06:41] <Dr_Willis> !upgrade
[06:42] <Volkodav> where is the menu.lst in new grub ?
[06:42] <Dr_Willis> Volkodav:  grub2 uses a radically different config systel
[06:42] <Dr_Willis> !grub2
[06:42] <NoelJB> grub.cfg
[06:42] <Volkodav> hmm
[06:42] <Dr_Willis> You edit /etc/default/grub and /etc/grub.d files i recall
[06:42] <Volkodav> can't open it
[06:42] <Dr_Willis> you dont edit /boot/gryb/grub.cfg
[06:42] <NoelJB> and I don't know that grub2 is RFPT, although cj will disagree, I'm sure.
[06:42] <Volkodav> ok
[06:42] <Volkodav> thanks
[06:42] <Dr_Willis> you DONT edit /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[06:43] <Dr_Willis> :)
[06:43] <Volkodav> I got it Dr_Willis
[06:43] <NoelJB> Dr_Willis, you do if it is a dedicated grub partition.
[06:43] <NoelJB> which I have.
[06:43] <bullgard4> Dr_Willis: Even using your hint, I do not understand this sentence. Can you re-word it completely, pleas?
[06:43] <NoelJB> but still grub 1 because I don't trust grub 2 (it's blown up on me during upgrades)
[06:43] <bullgard4> s/pleas/please/
[06:44] <hifi> and is it addressed that fsck can't be skipped or the progress seen in karmic at the moment?
[06:44] <yoota> so with grub2 you cant have seperate boot partition?
[06:44] <yoota> seems like should still go in /boot and have a symlink from /etc
[06:44] <Dr_Willis> Hmmm grub.cfg can be (and will be) overwrittten anytime a kernbel gets changes/updated . if you want to customize it - customize the things in /etc/grub.d
[06:44] <NoelJB> yoota, you can, as far as I know.
[06:44] <hifi> yoota: do-release-upgrade -d
[06:44] <yoota> NoelJB, then config is not read at boot?
[06:45] <yoota> hifi, didn't work
[06:45] <yoota> "no release found"
[06:45] <hifi> you did pass the -d parameter?
[06:45] <yoota> yeah
[06:45] <NoelJB> yoota, I'd have to find the writeup on it.  there is one.
[06:45] <hifi> your mirrors are bad
[06:45] <hifi> or just not following karmic
[06:45] <mac_v> yoota: check the software sources
[06:45] <yoota> mirror.anl.gov
[06:46] <Dr_Willis> on any messages you see after grub loads  and befor the Ubuntu Xsplash screen displays.      (is pretty clear, no need for  extra words like scrolling, or flashing)
[06:46] <yoota> great fast mirror
[06:46] <yoota> is apt-get dist-upgrade supported?
[06:46] <hifi> yoota: no, do-release-upgrade is the correct way
[06:47] <mac_v> yoota: check software sources  , updates tab > Release upgrade ... what option you have selected
[06:47] <hifi> dist-upgrading will result in a broken system
[06:47] <cwillu> yoota, "apt-get dist-upgrade" was never the way to update to ubuntu+, if that's what you're asking
[06:48] <yoota> cause do-release-upgrade always fs with your sources
[06:48] <cwillu> yoota, we're talking about upgrading from jaunty, right?
[06:48] <yoota> yeah
[06:48] <cwillu> your sources need to be modified regardless then
[06:48] <yoota> yeah but i can do that
[06:48] <yoota> already did do it
[06:49] <cwillu> so, you went ahead and guessed that things worked the same way under a new release?  That's so cute!
[06:49] <cwillu> I mean, it's true in this case, but it's in no way guarenteed
[06:49] <cwillu> to say nothing of other major changes that require updates to be applied in a particular order (which do-release-upgrade handles)
[06:50] <hifi> revert your sources back to jaunty and then do do-release-upgrade -d
[06:50] <hifi> after you apt-get update
[06:50] <hifi> should work?
[06:50] <cwillu> yoota, and put your customized source lists into /etc/apt/sources.list.d/, which will prevent them from getting mucked with
[06:51] <cwillu> rather than editing sources.list directly
[06:51] <cwillu> yoota, (and feel free to @lart me in #ubuntu-offtopic, because that was probably over the line on my part :p)
[06:52] <yoota> ?
[06:52] <yoota> its very on topic
[06:52] <cwillu> no, I meant my patronizing comments
[06:52] <yoota> cwillu, umm, you just change jaunty to karmic
[06:53] <cwillu> yoota, do you have other repositories listed in sources.list?
[06:53] <yoota> yes
[06:53] <yoota> i removed them
[06:53] <cwillu> they should be in separate files in /etc/sources.list.d/
[06:53] <yoota> no
[06:53] <Xgates> thanks guys
[06:53] <yoota> i will reedit after it f's with them
[06:53] <Xgates> later
[06:53] <vigo> Xgates: Did you look at this page? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MactelSupportTeam I forgot which Mac you are using, is a full list linked off of that.
[06:54] <cwillu> yoota, suit yourself, we're only trying to make sure things work for you
[06:55] <yoota> i never downloaded some openoffice upgrades
[06:55] <yoota> so i will see
[06:58] <Volkodav> hmm - I just installed Karmic next to Jaunty with grub going to sdb (where both of them are) and it boots in Jaunty's old grub
[06:59] <yoota> no need to chainload
[06:59] <edgy> Hi, where is in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ the add bug link?!!
[06:59] <yoota> grub legacy is fine
[06:59] <Volkodav> looks like it did not overwrite it though
[06:59] <cwillu> edgy, what package is your bug in?
[06:59] <yoota> is ubuntu the first to go to grub 2?
[06:59] <cwillu> yes
[06:59] <edgy> cwillu: udev
[06:59] <cwillu> edgy, in a terminal, run:  ubuntu-bug udev
[06:59] <Volkodav> So I can add Karmic to legacy grub ?
[07:00] <cwillu> Volkodav, only if you didn't use ext4 for karmic
[07:00] <Volkodav> I did
[07:00] <Volkodav> I have ext4 on both
[07:00] <cwillu> or if you have a separate boot partition that's ext3
[07:00] <Volkodav> no
[07:00] <cwillu> legacy grub can't read ext4 (modulo some particular cases that only work by accident)
[07:00] <Volkodav> should I spin Live CD and reinstall grub again ?
[07:01] <edgy> cwillu: thanks I am trying it now, so there is no way to report a bug if I am not in front of a linux box?
[07:01] <Volkodav> well I have ext4 that boots Jaunty with legace grub though
[07:01] <cwillu> probably;  I read up on grub when I need it, and promptly forget everything once its working again :p
[07:01] <Volkodav> same here
[07:01] <yoota> its fairly simple
[07:02] <Volkodav> but this new one is a bit different
[07:02] <yoota> but grub 2 is differnt
[07:02] <yoota> grub 2 has no stage 1.5
[07:02] <cwillu> edgy, I'm not sure how they're handling that sort of case;  the idea is to force the use of ubuntu-bug to make sure all relevant details are included in the first place, rather than chasing after bug submitters just to get the damn logs attached :p
[07:02] <NoelJB> edgy, they removed it.  they are trying to encourage/force you to use ubuntu-bug
[07:02] <Volkodav> well I'll try to add Karmic intry to legace and see what happens
[07:02] <yoota> booting on x86 is a mess cause the MBR is only 1 block, 512 bytes
[07:02] <yoota> the best one IMHO is freebsd's boot0
[07:03] <yoota> cause it fits fully on that MBR
[07:03] <edgy> cwillu, NoelJB: I thinks its a good idea actually
[07:03] <NoelJB> edgy, there IS a magic link, still.  just not as easy to get to.  entirely intentional.  there was a bug report on LP about it.
[07:03] <cwillu> edgy, me too, but it's annoying for these forts of edge cases :)
[07:03] <cwillu> s/forts/sorts/
[07:03] <yoota> still says no new release
[07:03] <Dr_Willis> Flash sound working yesterday.. not today.. someone recall the extra flash package to perhaps get sound working.
[07:04] <yoota> any way i can see what it is doing
[07:04] <NoelJB> Dr_Willis, still working for me.  I was just listening to some youtube vids.
[07:04] <Volkodav> hmm - I can't find where the default entry is in this new grub
[07:04] <cwillu> yoota, "do-release-upgrade -d"?
[07:04] <Dr_Willis> Yea on youtube now.. no sound.. Unless its system wide..  I did hear the gdm sound however.
[07:04] <yoota> for jaunty i upgraded through the CD
[07:05] <yoota> cause the cd didn't ditch me out like the do-release-upgrade did
[07:05] <NoelJB> Dr_Willis, which flash?  I gave up on 32bit silly flash ages ago, and install 64 bit proper flash from Adobe directly.
[07:05] <Dr_Willis> Hmm.. Looks like streamtuner still dosetn see shoutcast's proper 'old web site' url
[07:05] <Dr_Willis> NoelJB:  whatever one was in ubuntu-restricted-extras
[07:05] <cwillu> Dr_Willis, NoelJB++
[07:05] <NoelJB> that would be 32 bit silly flash
[07:06] <cwillu> Dr_Willis, 64bit flash isn't packaged in the repos yet, although there may be a ppa
[07:06] <cwillu> Dr_Willis, I generally just uninstall flash, and cp libflashplayer.so /usr/lib/firefox-addons/plugins/
[07:06] <cwillu> from the 64bit alpha tar from adobe labs
[07:07] <NoelJB> cwillu, +1
[07:08] <Dr_Willis> i recall why i normally just  watch videos i get from otuer places.. and rarely bother with flash now. :)
[07:08] <NoelJB> http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html
[07:08] <cwillu> https://launchpad.net/~sevenmachines/+archive/flash has the 64bit flash
[07:08] <Dr_Willis> seems like half the sites 'break' the flash player inlinux with how they do comercials injected into the videos
[07:09] <Volkodav> Can someone paste their menu entry for grub ? I can't find it in /etc/grub.d
[07:09] <Volkodav> all scripts
[07:09] <Dr_Willis> if you upgraded - you would be using grub1, not grub2
[07:10] <NoelJB> Dr_Willis, do you know of any way to INSTALL karmic and still keep grub 1?
[07:10] <Volkodav> I installed it next to jauntu on a separate partiton
[07:10] <Dr_Willis> Hmm
[07:10] <Dr_Willis> NoelJB:  no idea. never tried/worried/looked into it
[07:10] <Volkodav> and at reboot I get legace grub
[07:10] <Dr_Willis> Having deeper issues here then just flash it seems.. i play a normal avi video and it plays for 5 sec.. then stops,
[07:10] <NoelJB> Dr_Willis, I want to do a clean re-install, but I want to do it with ext3 and grub 1.
[07:11] <Dr_Willis> NoelJB:  you can set it to use ext3 in the insaller if you want. No idea on grub.
[07:12] <NoelJB> no worries.  at some point I'll get with cj and move everything to grub2, but I'd really like to see grub2 stop self-immolating first.
[07:12] <Dr_Willis> ive not had any issues with grub2 at all.
[07:12] <Dr_Willis> it did add all the os's on thos external usb hard drive i had plugged in :) which was a neat trick.. not what i wanted..but handy
[07:13] <Guest70826> Anyone here?
[07:13] <NoelJB> Dr_Willis, I had one today.  I upgraded one of the karmic images, and afterwards ran into the invalid environment entries bug.  had to restore the backup and re-do the upgrade.  I think that it might have been an update order issue, because I forced a specific order the 2nd time.
[07:13] <dns53> Guest70826 usually is
[07:14] <Guest70826> haha
[07:14] <Volkodav> so where is the default entry? it must be in 10 section
[07:14] <NoelJB> Dr_Willis, this: http://www.overclock.net/amd-general/582951-invalid-equiptment-block-ubuntu.html
[07:15] <Gekz> I had installed 9.04 and updated to 9.10. b43 was working
[07:16] <Gekz> I decided sound had fucked up
[07:16] <Gekz> did a clean install of 9.10
[07:16] <Gekz> now I can't get b43 to work
[07:16] <Gekz> :<
[07:16] <Gekz> google to hell
[07:16] <Gekz> it's not exactly helpful at all
[07:16] <NoelJB> !ohmy | gekz
[07:16] <mercutio22> I am not getting sound notifications in empathy either
[07:16] <Gekz> googled*
[07:17] <Gekz> so what can I do
[07:17] <mercutio22> Gekz: You get no audio at all?
[07:19] <Gekz> mercutio22, what does this have to do with audio
[07:19] <Gekz> b43 is broadcom wireless
[07:19] <NoelJB> http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43
[07:19] <Gekz> NoelJB, ... what do you think I've already done
[07:19] <Gekz> I dont come to IRC first
[07:19] <Gekz> lol
[07:19] <Gekz> that page doesn't help me
[07:19] <Gekz> it's for when ti works
[07:19] <Gekz> not when it doesn't.
[07:20] <NoelJB> That was for mercutio22, not you :-)
[07:20] <Volkodav> well it looks like my grub.cfg is entirely empty
[07:20] <cwillu> b43 requires firmware that isn't installed by default, but which will continue to work across release upgrades.  If you've freshly installed, you'll have to acquire that firmware
[07:20] <Dr_Willis> You have to  chante the permissions onit - in order to even view it i belive.. for grub.cfg
[07:21] <Dr_Willis> sudo cat /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[07:21] <cwillu> Dr_Willis, it's world-readable
[07:21] <Dr_Willis> my user couldent read it here the other day when i tried
[07:21] <cwillu> Dr_Willis, it's not _writable_ by root by default though
[07:22] <cwillu> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 2585 2009-08-17 17:57 /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[07:22] <Gekz> cwillu, ... dah
[07:22] <Gekz> I already have the firmware
[07:22] <Gekz> I have it set up in a manner that it should work
[07:22] <Gekz> but it simply is not
[07:22] <cwillu> Gekz, set it up as in did it by hand?
[07:22] <Gekz> I have installed the backports modules
[07:22] <Gekz> will reboot and see
[07:22] <Gekz> no, b43-fwcutter.
[07:22] <cwillu> ...
[07:22] <cwillu> yes, reboot mid conversation
[07:24]  * cwillu slaps Gekz with a cod
[07:24] <Gekz> yep
[07:25] <Gekz> backports fixed it
[07:25] <Gekz> evidently my card isnt supported until 2.6.32
[07:25] <Gekz> and before it must have been using dkms
[07:25] <Gekz> to recompile it on the fly or something odd
[07:25] <Volkodav> hmm - now it shows as all os recognised and root is pointed to the right disc and partition - but it still boots on legace grub though
[07:26] <Volkodav> I will try to reboot again
[07:26] <Volkodav> see what happens
[07:26] <Dr_Willis> well bbl.
[07:30] <Volkodav> hmm - same shit
[07:30] <Volkodav> it sists a bit longer at bios boot and then still gets to legace grub
[07:31] <bullgard4> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/beta: "Please open bugs with the tag "ubuntu-boot-experience" on any messages you see flashed after grub loads and before the new Ubuntu Splash screen (xsplash) displays." is awkward English. Can you explain in plain English what is meant?
[07:40] <RONSTA1> hello folks
[07:41] <RONSTA1> is anyone having issues booting the new 64bit beta?
[07:41] <yoota> RONSTA1, that would be due to the grub2
[07:42] <RONSTA1> no prob
[07:42] <yoota> which is a big change
[07:42] <yoota> you should file a bug against it
[07:42] <RONSTA1> yeah ive noticed so far
[07:42] <yoota> once the rough edged get worked out grub2 will be a big step forward
[07:42] <yoota> *edges
[07:42] <RONSTA1> i have also an alternate cd.  and when installing it on a raid stripped system when grub 2 gets about to install it stops at 16%
[07:43] <yoota> ummm install?
[07:43] <yoota> this is only early boot
[07:43] <RONSTA1> thanks for the response yoota
[07:43] <yoota> and i dont think it apply from the cd, which boots with iso-linux
[07:43] <yoota> only post-install
[07:43] <RONSTA1> k
[07:43] <yoota> and booting then from HD
[07:43] <yoota> so thats probably differn't issue
[07:44] <RONSTA1> i also created a live usb with the 9.10 beta 64 bit and 32bit
[07:44] <RONSTA1> they dont boot
[07:44] <RONSTA1> very strange i get dropped to the initramfs box
[07:44] <yoota> oh usb uses grub2
[07:44] <yoota> file a bug against that
[07:44] <yoota> with detail from your hardware
[07:45] <yoota> including lspci -nvvv
[07:45] <RONSTA1> saying that mounting  /dev on /root/dev failed
[07:45] <yoota> run lspci -nvvv as root
[07:45] <yoota> and include results
[07:45] <yoota> along with description
[07:45] <RONSTA1> thats the prob i cant even run any of those commands
[07:45] <yoota> with another distro
[07:46] <yoota> but on same machine
[07:46] <yoota> boot problems are very hardware oriented
[07:46] <RONSTA1> i mean all other ones work fine
[07:46] <yoota> ok
[07:46] <yoota> then note that in bug report
[07:46] <yoota> not here
[07:47] <RONSTA1> no prob
[07:47] <RONSTA1> i dont know man but 9.10
[07:47] <RONSTA1> aint looking too polished at this stage
[07:48] <rsk> it's still beta
[07:49] <RONSTA1> i mean as far as looks go
[07:49] <RONSTA1> couldve sbeen way better
[07:49] <RONSTA1> MR>NOOB did some really nice boot stuff
[07:51] <yoota> so much for helpful people
[07:58] <frybye> !lag
[08:00] <frybye> so wher's all the dialoge re Karmic - still in bed...?
[08:01] <rsk> ?
[08:01] <frybye> just seems to be a bit quiet here - i was not sure if the system was up and running actually... ;=)
[08:02] <downhiller> hi
[08:02] <rsk> i want the same drugs you are taking
[08:02] <downhiller> i always had the problen that firefox was on linux sluggish compared to the windows version
[08:02] <frybye> Hi - so what do you folks think of the beta so far.. I have it running in a vbox and seems to work pretty good...
[08:02] <downhiller> gnome always seemed to be a bit sluggish, with or without compiz, compared to he windows xp GUI
[08:03] <downhiller> is it possbile that the whole desktop and firefox are going to be faster with the gnome shell or gnome 3?
[08:03] <frybye> you got the right grafic drivers installed...?
[08:03] <rsk> it's possible
[08:03] <downhiller> frybye: yes, alwyys the newest nvidia drivers
[08:03] <rsk> but newer verions of software are usually slower, so don't have any high hopes
[08:04] <frybye> in the vbox I cant do that of course.. but have run 9.04 installed direct on this pc previously and it seemed pretty good...
[08:04] <downhiller> rsk: seriously ? :(
[08:04] <rsk> seriously
[08:04] <frybye> hmmm.. what is this "indicator messages service" that crashes all the time?
[08:04] <frybye> after I said how good it was working hehehe
[08:05] <frybye> cant be all that important - whatever it is - ;=)
[08:06] <robin0800> frybye: I don't know but it seems to crash with knotify for me so I foiled a bug report
[08:07] <frybye> on the other hand - even when h-ware manuf. do publish a linux driver - it tends to be a bit of an afterthought and one suspects they don't put anything like the same effort into it as for windows...
[08:07] <Berzerker> Is there a way to enable power management options? 9.10 UNR
[08:08] <Berzerker> all my options are grayed out
[08:08] <robin0800> frybye: knotify is a kde thing so perhaps not tested?
[08:08] <frybye> robin - well done pal - I must admit that I tend to file bugs myself when it is something that is really getting in my way... not the best community spirit perhaps... :(
[08:09] <frybye> Berzerker: are you in a virt. machine?
[08:09] <Berzerker> no
[08:09] <frybye> hmmm..
[08:09] <Berzerker> and....my keyboard shortcuts just broke
[08:09] <Berzerker> not displayingany
[08:09] <Berzerker> displaying any*
[08:10] <Berzerker> brb
[08:10] <frybye> sorry... I am no linux/ubuntu guru - perhaps somebody else can help...
[08:12] <frybye> I am off for now - c u folks later.. bye..
[08:14] <Berzerker> that was actually my problem
[08:14] <Berzerker> the two were related
[08:14] <Berzerker> the service that controlled settings apparently crashed, a restart fixed it
[08:29] <Qwell> Is there a version of Ubuntu for OCD folks, where the theme doesn't change on upgrade?
[08:31] <nanomad> Qwell, just use a custom theme and it will stay like that forever ;)
[08:31] <rsk> No.
[08:31] <Qwell> It was a custom theme.
[08:32] <nanomad> Qwell, so, what did change?
[08:32] <Qwell> The theme.
[08:32] <nanomad> background colors? Metacity theme? Fonts? What part?
[08:32] <Qwell> The entire theme...  it switched it to something else
[08:33] <nanomad> Qwell, what were you using before?
[08:33] <Qwell> a custom theme
[08:33] <nanomad> name?
[08:35] <Qwell> no clue.  is that really relevant?
[08:35] <nanomad> Qwell, well, maybe it used parts of the theme that got updated (like human controls, window borders or icons).
[08:36] <nanomad> Qwell, you should file a bug indeed. It is a very nasty thing.
[08:36] <musikgoat1> interesting apt-get autoremove removed pidgin,  i thought ubuntu decided that would be the default IM client for karmic
[08:36] <musikgoat1> and dkms
[08:37] <nanomad> musikgoat1, where did you read that?
[08:37] <franta> musikgoat1: I think that empathy is now default
[08:38] <musikgoat1> franta: alpha6 pulled back in pidgin, and I was reading that they decided that empathy wasn't ready to be the default IM client
[08:38] <musikgoat1> maybe that was wrong
[08:38] <nanomad> musikgoat1, that was a packaging error
[08:39] <musikgoat1> ahh
[08:39] <franta> Does anyone know if it is somehow possible to boot Karmic from external USB HDD? I can't get it working :(
[08:41] <nanomad> franta, did you try using the tool for usb sticks?
[08:41] <nanomad> franta, also, see: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1272142
[08:41] <nanomad> maybe you should check if a bug exists in launchpad
[08:42] <franta> nanomad: I think, that you are talking about something else... I boot from liveCD and install it do HDD that is conneced to USB...than it should work as if it was normally installed
[08:43] <nanomad> franta, where did you install the bootloader?
[08:43] <franta> of course
[08:43] <nanomad> but WHERE?
[08:43] <Dr_Willis> franta:   some times the grub settings get confused with usb drives..  it may install to what it thinks is 'hd1' but when it boots from the usb. the usb driv can be come 'hd0'
[08:43] <franta> well to /dev/sdb
[08:44] <nanomad> when do you have errors? at grub? or after?
[08:44] <franta> it goes to grub menu than it starts to boot
[08:44] <nanomad> so you see kernel messages?
[08:45] <franta> nanomad: it can't find the root
[08:45] <franta> it is defined by UID
[08:45] <nanomad> what happens if you replace UID with the correct drive name?
[08:45] <franta> when I virtually connect that disk to virtual machine in virtual box (it looks for it as if it is connected to sata) it boots just fine
[08:46] <nanomad> can you post grub's boot string?
[08:46] <franta> nanomad: grub supports tab completition, but all it can see is /dev/sdax
[08:47] <nanomad> franta, try manually placing /dev/sdbx
[08:47] <robin0800> franta:  use blkid to find the uuid and put that in fstab
[08:47] <franta> nanomad: that doesn't work
[08:47] <nanomad> franta, do what robin said then
[08:48] <franta> robin0800: but if i connect the drive to sata, it boots
[08:48] <franta> if I put it to usb enclosure, and then try to boot it, grub cannot see that disk
[08:49] <Qwell> what happened to the volume control applet? O.o
[08:49] <franta> I think that problem is somewhere else
[08:49] <robin0800> franta: you may also use disk utilty but fstab is bound to work IMHO
[08:49] <franta> I'll try to get that bootstring...but it will be a little complicated since I'm on 8.04
[08:50] <franta> robin0800: but grub should see that disk as /dev/sdb
[08:50] <franta> and it doesnt
[08:51] <robin0800> franta: Can your computer boot from usb?
[08:51] <franta> yes
[08:51] <franta> thats how I was alpha testing jaunty
[08:51] <Dr_Willis> this is using grub 1 or grub2 ?
[08:52] <franta> both
[08:52] <Dr_Willis> grub2 Does enumerate the drives differently then grub1
[08:52] <robin0800> franta: Grub will only work i think if there is a fstab entry
[08:52] <franta> I chrooted in to the fresh installation and replaced grub2 with grub legacy
[08:52] <Dr_Willis> and when booting a usb drive it might be seen as sda because its the one being booted. (ive seen some machines do this)
[08:53] <franta> Dr_Willis: it's not, I have 4 partitions on sda and 3 on sdb so I can distiguish them
[08:53] <robin0800> Dr_Willis: Thats why they have switched to UUID for grub 2
[08:53] <Dr_Willis> franta:   check from the grub command line, if its hd0, or hd1 that has that stuff
[08:54] <franta> there is set root=(hd0,3)
[08:54] <Dr_Willis> Ive not tried setting up a external usb via grub2 yet. i did notice that 'update-grub'  fir grub2 Did see/add entries for my exteranal usb hard drives here
[08:55] <Dr_Willis> franta:  yea - be care full with the hd0,3 in grub2 it differs slightly then in grub1. i Think i read where partitions start at 1, not 0
[08:55] <franta> but it should work with grub legacy then...?
[08:55] <franta> Dr_Willis: strange thing is that, when I connect that drive to virtual machine it boots just fine
[08:56] <Dr_Willis> for grub1 - i tend to put grub1 on the usb drive and tell the bios to boot that drive.
[08:56] <franta> Dr_Willis: thats what Im trying to do...
[08:56] <franta> but it doesn't work...
[08:57] <robin0800> Dr_Willis: My fstab see how it sayes the hd0 netc but uses uuid http://paste.ubuntu.com/285241/
[08:57] <Dr_Willis> fstab wouldent affect the booting  part of grub i think.
[08:57] <Qwell> How should I be adjusting volume now?  alsamixer is an option obviously, but...
[08:58] <Dr_Willis> Qwell:  theres not a little speaker/mixer in the top right hand corner?
[08:58] <Qwell> The new applet only lets you adjust PCM.  You can't open the mixer anymore
[08:58] <robin0800> Qwell: the loudspeaker icon
[08:58] <franta> well this may be a little different since I am using kubuntu, but it goes to the splashscreen the bar is going right and left for a while and then it drops to initramfs and says that it couldn't wait for root and when I try to locate /dev/sdb file it's not there
[08:58] <franta> 09:57 < Dr_Willis> fstab wouldent affect the booting  part of grub i think.
[08:58] <robin0800> Qwell: alsamixer
[08:59] <Qwell> alsamixer isn't exactly viable
[08:59] <Dr_Willis> i install the pav* tools
[08:59] <franta> Dr_Willis: that's what I think...
[08:59] <robin0800> Qwell: in a terminal
[08:59] <franta> probably something left out when compiling grub
[09:00] <Dr_Willis> franta:  for grub1 - ive taken the entries  and made extra copies  with the hd#'s diffrent, and just tried them all befor.
[09:00] <Qwell> robin0800: I'm not going to tell my grandmother to open a terminal and mess with alsamixer :)
[09:00] <Dr_Willis> Thres an alsamixer with x gui
[09:00] <Dr_Willis> !info gnome-alsamixer
[09:01] <Dr_Willis> !info alsamixergui
[09:01] <Qwell> surely there something that is installed by default
[09:01] <franta> Dr_Willis: but grub normally sees the drives and is able to tab complete their names like /dev/sda or so
[09:02] <franta> it can see /dev/sda but /dev/sdb (usb disk) not
[09:02] <Dr_Willis> franta:  grub dosent use  'sda' type nameing.. it uses 'hd#,#'
[09:02] <franta> but when you set root like root=something you use /dev/sdx, right?
[09:02] <Dr_Willis> Heh - alsamixergui here only has 1 slider for my volumes anyway. :
[09:03] <Dr_Willis> franta:  yes. thats how Linux names the drives..  not grub.
[09:03] <Dr_Willis> gnome-alsamixer has all sorts of little sliders.. wee. :)
[09:03] <franta> so it's in the kernel?
[09:04] <Dr_Willis> franta:  no idea. Im not clear on whaat you have tried/not tried. could be you still have some quirky grub config issue
[09:04] <franta> Dr_Willis: I have just booted that disk in virtualbox
[09:04]  * Dr_Willis notices gnome-alsamixer has a slider for 'beep' :) thats diffrent
[09:04] <bullgard4> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/beta: "Please open bugs with the tag "ubuntu-boot-experience" on any messages you see flashed after grub loads and before the new Ubuntu Splash screen (xsplash) displays." is awkward English. Can you explain in plain English what is meant?
[09:05] <Dr_Willis> bullgard4:  remove the word 'flashed'
[09:05] <Dr_Willis> bullgard4:  and i see about 30 messages  befor xsplash. :)
[09:05] <mac_v> bullgard: it means : before the graphical xslpash [wallpaper_throbber] is displayed... some users are noticing text
[09:05] <mac_v> splash*
[09:06] <Dr_Willis> bullgard4:  grub -> messages -> xsplash
[09:06] <Dr_Willis> they want to know the messages...
[09:06] <mac_v> bullgard: are you using dual boot? [2 different OS]
[09:07] <mac_v> only then grub will be displayed [else hidden]
[09:07] <bullgard4> mac_v: Why do you want to know this? First answer my question. Then I will answer your question.
[09:08] <mac_v> bullgard: *they* want to know it because that text should not be displayed
[09:09]  * Dr_Willis finds the    http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/beta: "Please open bugs  ... rather clear
[09:09] <mac_v> bullgard: xsplash should hide those messages too , but is not , and since they cant test every hardware in the world *they* are asking you to report bugs *if* you notice the text
[09:09]  * mac_v too , finds the wording clear enough
[09:10] <Dr_Willis> wich is going tobe hard to repport.. becuase the text flashes by real fast.
[09:10] <Dr_Willis> I see somthing aobut an acerfanhd or somting. (must be a netbook module) and  somthing aobut OHCI (usb devices)
[09:10] <mac_v> Dr_Willis: the acerfnhd , should be solved , now
[09:11] <mac_v> the last update has fixed it for me
[09:13] <stefg> i can acknowlaedge that. acerhdf (fan control for Acer Aspire One) was fixed
[09:13] <Dr_Willis> mac_v:  well i just saw it on this box. .and i  installed/updated/upgraded/rebooted about..  (well rightbefor i got here) 30 min ago
[09:15] <mac_v> Dr_Willis: did you get the kernel update ? 31-11.38 ? that fixes this issue... or is atleast supposed to [fixed for me]
[09:16] <mac_v> you can also see the bug number in the changelog for the kernel
[09:17] <Qwell> what should usability issues be reported against?  using ubuntu-bug is a bit silly..
[09:18]  * bullgard4 finds that messages as this: " [10:09] Dr_Willis	finds the http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/beta: "Please open bugs ... rather clear" are not helpful.
[09:19] <mac_v> Qwell: usability issues as in... ?
[09:19] <Qwell> as in issues with usability?
[09:19] <mac_v> lol , what is the issue?
[09:19] <mac_v> in which app
[09:19] <bullgard4> mac_v: Thank you.
[09:20] <Qwell> mac_v: You tell me.  Which app changed my desktop theme?  Which app provided volume control and is now gone?
[09:20] <mac_v> wow.. guys are quite an angry bunch today ;)
[09:21] <Qwell> Which app is turning my mouse cursor into an arrow when clicking on a text entry field?
[09:21] <mac_v> Qwell: the human theme? it was changed
[09:22] <mac_v> Qwell: each of the complaints need to be filed in the respective app/package ... for theme > human theme , for volume control > pulseaudio [not sure about this]
[09:22] <Qwell> I don't use pulse
[09:22] <mac_v> Qwell: ubunutu or kubuntu?
[09:22] <Qwell> ubuntu
[09:23] <mac_v> Qwell: then pulseaudio *must* be installed
[09:23] <Qwell> I disabled it
[09:24]  * Dr_Willis wonders if bullgard4  got enough of an answer to his  questions.
[09:25] <Qwell> mac_v: and "human theme" isn't a valid package
[09:30] <ilPisano> hi i just upgraded to karmic and network don't work. I tracked the problem to a dns problem. I have a router and when system go up resolv.conf is blank. with sudo dhclient eth0 connection goes up and in resolv.conf go 192.168.0.1 (router ip). Any ideas or solution?
[09:32] <Dr_Willis> so it works after that?
[09:32] <ilPisano> every time i start i must give the command
[09:32] <Dr_Willis> thats  odd.
[09:32] <ilPisano> and i can't explain that to my wife :)
[09:33] <Dr_Willis> as a 'cheat' you could put the command in rc.local :)
[09:33] <Dr_Willis> that you shouldent have todo that
[09:33] <Dr_Willis> this is wired? wireless? dsl? cable modem?
[09:33] <Umeaboy> Anybody interested in trying to open a Javascript-site for me? I think Firefox is lying to me.
[09:33] <ilPisano> wired
[09:33] <ilPisano> ihave a simple router
[09:33] <ilPisano> with dhcp
[09:34] <cwillu> Umeaboy, no
[09:34] <Dr_Willis> I got 3 nameserer entries in my   resolv.conf file
[09:35] <ilPisano> lucky u :)
[09:35] <Dr_Willis> 2 of them are from the OpenDNS service
[09:35] <cwillu> Dr_Willis, that's normal if you're going straight into an upstream provider, on a big site, or if your router is configured to pass through your isp's dns rather than using the router's built-in dns
[09:35] <Dr_Willis> last one is the routers 192.168.1.1
[09:36] <ilPisano> where can i tell network manager i want specify other dns?
[09:37] <Dr_Willis> right click on the network manager icon at top right. its in there somewhere i see it here.
[09:37] <cwillu> ilPisano, edit connections -> new connection -> ipv4 -> automatic (dhcp addresses only)
[09:37] <Dr_Willis> yea i just saw that  address only.. thats a new thing  in 9.10? i dont recall seeing that befor
[09:37] <cwillu> ideally you should be able to edit the existing connection, but that seems to be broken on my machine right now
[09:37] <ilPisano> but then i can use that new connection by dafault?
[09:38] <cwillu> Dr_Willis, since 9.04 at least
[09:39] <Umeaboy> What happens if you go to the following location in Firefox: http://files.elbilsnytt.com/geolocation/#
[09:39] <Umeaboy> ?
[09:39] <Umeaboy> Never mind the language of the site, but does it work?
[09:42] <cwillu> (javascript are enabled if you see this) Geolocation work with Safari, IE8 (With google gears), Google Chrome and Firefox 3.5. Want to try it, press this link
[09:43] <cwillu> "files.elbilsnytt.com wants to know my location"
[09:43] <cwillu> doesn't download anything though
[09:44] <ubuntu0ath1> Does anyone else have a problem with their microphone not working ?
[09:46] <Umeaboy> cwillu: What happened when you clicked that link?
[09:46] <Umeaboy> Nothing happened for me.
[09:46] <SUPEROGT> Hi, i've installed 9.10 and looks good, with some minor issues, but one thing is bothering me is that i can't use my madwifi drivers. I blacklisted ath5k and ath9k, patched and compiled but nothing. I do that usualli on 9.04 without problems even on kernel updates. Any idea about this ?
[09:47] <Umeaboy> SUPEROGT: Well, you're more than welcome to report the issue.
[09:48] <robin0800> SUPEROGT: perhaps you don't need it?
[09:48] <SUPEROGT> Umeaboy: ok i'll do it, thanks.
[09:48] <SUPEROGT> robin0800: actually i need it.
[09:50] <SUPEROGT> robin0800: at first, ath5k don't works for me, it don't connect to my router, second i study electronic engineering and i'm doing some security audits on wireless networks at school. And PhD don't believe me WEP is insecure unless i give them their WEP key. :/
[09:52] <rsk> um aircrak dosen't work with athx* ?
[09:53] <Dr_Willis> Hmm. anyone else notice that 'crash report detected' icon always seems  tobe there? this is a clean install. ive not seen any crashes.. and its tehre. :)
[09:53] <SUPEROGT> i guess not, that drivers don't even work for a normal connection.
[09:55] <einand> anyone running Keramic and Firefox 3.5 here?
[09:56] <Dr_Willis> err 3.5.3 is the default    so Yes. :)
[09:57] <einand> Dr_Willis: can you please go to files.elbilsnytt.com/geolocation/ press the link then accept to share location and tell me if it works
[09:57] <einand> http://files.elbilsnytt.com/geolocation/
[09:58] <Dr_Willis> seems to work here.
[09:58] <einand> tnx
[09:58] <Dr_Willis> Harwood Heights, IL 60706, USA
[09:58] <Dr_Willis> but thats not where IM at. ::)
[09:58] <einand> ;)
[09:59] <bullgard4> I commanded Windows Selector to move Firefox 3.5.3 to another workspace. Now my computer is frozen. Only I can move the mouse cursor. But clicking on any button has no effect. Ctrl+Alt+F1 has no effect. How to proceed?
[09:59] <ubuntu0ath1>  Does anyone else have a problem with their microphone not working ?
[09:59] <Dr_Willis> alt-ctrl-sysreq-k will force X to restart. (but thats extreme)
[10:00] <rsk> einand: it does work
[10:00] <rsk> but reports wrong location
[10:00] <bullgard4> ubuntu0ath1: No.
[10:00] <cwillu_clone> so, how does one get the grub menu to show up now that we've disabled the timeout by default in preference to holding down shift (which doesn't work on many computers, such as mine)?
[10:01] <einand> rsk: thats not my foult. Connet a gps if you want it to mer exakt ;)
[10:01] <dandavies> MOrning - just downloaded and installed the latest Beta on my HP mininote 2133 using USB install.  Display all looks fine and the ethernet connection works ok, but it won't automatically find the WLAN card.  Interestingly I ran the LiveCD on the box first and after a couple minutes it offered to use the proprietary broadcom drivers.  The fresh install though doesn't seem to pick up the card.  Any ideas?
[10:01] <mac_v> cwillu_clone: it used to work with escfor me , now that doenst work either  :/
[10:01] <robin0800> cwillu_clone: /etc/default /grub
[10:02] <einand> more
[10:02] <cwillu_clone> robin0800, eh?
[10:02] <Dr_Willis> cwillu_clone:  i think i read in the forums where you have to comment out   somthing in  the /etc/default/grub line. theres some bug where it dosent get  set to not hide properly in some cases
[10:03] <mac_v> robin0800: from there you can only edit the grub.cfg settings not waht cwillu_clone asked
[10:03] <Dr_Willis> #GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT=0
[10:03] <mac_v> what*
[10:03] <cwillu_clone> so, there's no way to do it without magically knowing that I'm going to have this problem first :p
[10:04] <cwillu_clone> aka, I can't boot into the system to edit that now, so I guess I'll open up the case to plug in another drive
[10:04] <mac_v> cwillu_clone: as a workaround , i used the timeout=1
[10:04] <Dr_Willis> i got a 10 sec time out here by default
[10:04]  * Dr_Willis bets grub2 will be a faq when this gets released
[10:05] <_21h_> after upgrade to 910 i see some bugs. if switch desktop resolution to 1280x1024 all icons and wallpaper hiding, but if i made 1024x768 all works fine. anybody knows how ti fix this?
[10:05] <mac_v> Dr_Willis: it already is ;) ever since grub2  , everyday there is someone asking something about it
[10:06] <Dr_Willis> im slowly getting my grub-2-fu mojo going
[10:06] <cwillu_clone> mac_v, incidently, I've been on grub2 since 8.10
[10:06] <mac_v> oh o.0
[10:06] <cwillu_clone> this is new-ubuntu created behaviour :)
[10:06] <mac_v> lol ... guess Ubuntu loves breaking stuff ;p
[10:06] <Dr_Willis> part of 'grub2' issues are not grub2.. but 'ubuntus config system toconfigure grub2' :) i think
[10:07] <cwillu_clone> allows them to save a second (the previous 'true' default when the delay was 0 seconds) on their race to a 10 second boot, at the cost of, well, this.
[10:07] <cwillu_clone> okay, here's another question:
[10:07] <Dr_Willis> Muuusstt sssavve 10 sec!
[10:07] <cwillu_clone> what's the mknod line to make /dev/sda5?
[10:07] <Dr_Willis> boot faster! more More!
[10:07] <cwillu_clone> Dr_Willis, 1 second :p
[10:08] <topyli> do we know how to adjust the FSB speed on an eeepc 701?
[10:08] <Yondering> anyone know if/when intel gma500 graphics will be supported fully?  Seems to be a bit off on my netbook..
[10:08] <cwillu_clone> it always had a 1 second delay to read escape key, even if the menu delay was set to 0 seconds
[10:08] <Dr_Willis> I got a machine that takes like 30 + sec just for grub to get to a grub menu.. still not sure why...
[10:10] <chu_> Hey guys, is there any documentation I can read as far as backing-up, saving currently installed programs etc. in preperation for a clean update?
[10:12] <mac_v> chu_: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=6870536#post6870536
[10:12] <mac_v> i find that post the most easiest...
[10:13] <chu_> cheers mac_v
[10:15] <cwillu_clone> okay, mknod /dev/sdb1 8 19; mount /dev/sdb1 /root; mount --bind ...; chroot /root; killall udevd; udevd; seems to get me almost working :)
[10:15] <cwillu_clone> oh crap, no job control
[10:15]  * cwillu_clone reboots again
[10:15] <einand> Tnx everyone
[10:17] <bigmack83> im trying out karmic on my laptop (HP pavillion dv7) and the graphics driver wont seem to activate. when i first installed it hung on the downloading of the driver and eventually stopped with no errors. after trying to activate again it just states :looking for drivers" for about a second and stops and does nothing. card is: ATI Radeon HD 3200
[10:18] <rsk> bigmack83: report bug to launchpad
[10:19] <bigmack83> rsk, yea i had thought of that but i wanted to try here first to see if anyone was familiar with it and knew of a way i could try and get it activated.
[10:20] <Yondering> is anyone else testing the 9.10 netbook remix on the 11.6" acer aspire one?
[10:20] <bullgard4> I run Windows Selector to move Firefox 3.5.3 to another workspace. Now my computer is frozen. Only I could move the mouse cursor. But clicking on any button has no effect. Ctrl+Alt+F1 has no effect. Alt+SysRq+K produced a black display screen. What "project" or package should I attribute to my Launchpad bug report? What log schould I attach?
[10:21] <Prohibited> torrenting Karmic now :)
[10:22] <rsk> bullgard4: i only think you can get logs with a seriell console cable
[10:22] <Prohibited> 101 peers
[10:23] <bullgard4> rsk: No. I can obtain logs from for example /var/log/syslog.
[10:24] <Severity1> Prohibited, can you give me link for karmic beta torrent?
[10:24] <Severity1> my direct download is taking forever :)
[10:25] <cwillu_clone> bullgard4, that's a crashed video chip
[10:25] <cwillu_clone> bullgard4, what video chipset are you on?
[10:25] <cwillu_clone> (mouse cursor is implemented in different hardware, so you'll see a moving cursor, but you can't interact with anything)
[10:26] <bullgard4> cwillu_clone: Wait some minutes please. I need to boot it.
[10:26] <cwillu_clone> bullgard4, you don't know what kind of video card you have?
[10:26] <cwillu_clone> i.e., the brand even?
[10:27] <Severity1> found it :)
[10:27] <bullgard4> cwillu_clone: It is an Intel chip. I do own this computer only a few days .
[10:28] <bullgard4> cwillu_clone: May I now with your permission restart my own computer?
[10:28] <cwillu_clone> bullgard4, k, when you get it back up, run ubuntu-bug xorg-driver-video-intel ;  you may also want to try the xorg-edgers ppa, which has fixes that are being evaluated for stability
[10:28] <cwillu_clone> !edgers
[10:29] <cwillu_clone> https://edge.launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers
[10:29] <Dr_Willis> so intel video is still a 'work in progress' it seems
[10:29] <cwillu_clone> as much as anything else is
[10:29] <cwillu_clone> if he's on a newer chipset, yes, there could still be lingering issues
[10:29] <Dr_Willis> I just had every Nautilus file manager window close  while drag/dropping files..   doh
[10:30] <Prohibited> Severity1: Sure, 32-bit?
[10:30] <freinhard> hi!
[10:30] <freinhard> need help on this one: E: Couldn't configure pre-depend openoffice.org-core for openoffice.org-filter-binfilter, probably a dependency cycle.
[10:31] <Prohibited> freinhard: trying to update to Karmic?\
[10:31] <freinhard> yes, but didn't get that error from DistUpgradeController.py, that one doesn't tell anything at all
[10:31] <Prohibited> forgot which channel was in lol
[10:31]  * Prohibited feels stupid.
[10:32] <freinhard> tried apt-get dist-upgrade manually after the GUI failed
[10:32] <Severity1> Prohibited, yeah 32bit :) i want to try out karmic on a VM
[10:34] <cwillu_clone> freinhard, make sure your /etc/apt/sources.list looks sane, and then use "sudo aptitude full-upgrade; sudo dpkg --configure -a" until it starts working
[10:34] <cwillu_clone> apt-get's dependency handling isn't quite as good as aptitudes, so you may have more luck with this approach
[10:35] <cwillu_clone> and... I almost have a boot...
[10:35] <cwillu_clone> aka, I don't have a boot :(
[10:39] <bullgard4> cwillu_clone: VGA controller: Intel Mobile 915GM/GMS/910GML Express Graphics Controller (rev 03)
[10:41] <freinhard> bullgard4: got trouble with that graphics chip?
[10:42] <bullgard4> cwillu_clone: It reports: "Package xorg-driver-video-intel does not exist." Besides, Apport reports: "Collecting problem information..." and hangs.
[10:42] <bullgard4> freinhard: Please read my message at 11:20 GMT +2.
[10:43] <freinhard> bullgard4: pleas scroll up and see when i joined ;)
[10:43] <cwillu_clone> bullgard4, sorry, stab in the dark;  try ubuntu-bug xorg
[10:43] <topyli> has anyone clocked their eeepc701 back to 900MHz? i need to do this in order to use my external monitor, but the lazy-man's tools don't work in karmic so i have to learn how to do it by hand
[10:44] <cwillu_clone> freinhard, the video hardware locks up (moving mouse cursor that can't interact with anything, and can't switch vt's)
[10:44] <topyli> lazy-man's tools = eee-control
[10:44] <vigo> exit
[10:44] <vigo> wrong terminal!
[10:46] <vigo> That was a pretty large update though.
[10:47] <freinhard> cwillu_clone: sounds like the usual recent intel-graphics-hassle
[10:50] <cwillu_clone> crap, I wasn't mounting boot, and so update-initramfs wasn't doing anything to any files that mattered
[10:50] <cwillu_clone> presto
[10:50] <cwillu_clone> xsplash ftw
[10:50] <cwillu_clone> and a moving mouse cursor!
[10:50]  * cwillu_clone cheers
[10:50] <cwillu_clone> my server lives again!
[10:51] <rom1v> hi
[10:52] <rom1v> the menu "encrypt" and "sign" when right-clicking on a file has been removed in karmic?
[10:52] <gajop> hello, i have a CD/DVD ROM that seems to have some content in it by default (called Bluebirds), probably some sort of flash memory, that gets mounted every time it's empty and inserted, which is annoying + confuses some applications and doesn't eject the case on the hardware click, since linux thinks there's a CD inside; is there any way to disable ubuntu from mounting that?
[10:52] <rom1v> how to reactivate them?
[10:53] <bullgard4> freinhard: {repetition} I run Windows Selector to move Firefox 3.5.3 to another workspace. Now my computer is frozen. Only I could move the mouse cursor. But clicking on any button has no effect. Ctrl+Alt+F1 has no effect. Alt+SysRq+K produced a black display screen. What "project" or package should I attribute to my Launchpad bug report? What log schould I attach?
[10:53] <Dr_Willis> gajop:  its a dvd DISK thats doing this? or a drive?
[10:54] <gajop> Dr_Willis, the drive, there's nothing inside
[10:54] <Dr_Willis> gajop:  interesting.  Not seen that built in to a drive befor.. Just those silly U3 flash drives have a similer feature
[10:55] <gajop> Dr_Willis, no idea; i just know that it makes ubuntu act like it shouldn't, it causes all sorts of problems
[10:55] <Dr_Willis> gajop:  check out what 'sudo fdisk -l' says - see  if it shows it as a hard drive or similer. You could try the command line to unmount it as a quick fix I guess
[10:55] <Dr_Willis> gajop:  that U3 stuff also casues problems. :)
[10:58] <gajop> Dr_Willis, it doesn't show in fdisk -l, but i can umount it with /dev/sr0, but it gets back as soon as i put the case of the drive back in
[10:58] <Dr_Willis> hmm.. i wonder if dmesg would show any info on it.
[10:59] <bullgard4> freinhard, cwillu_clone: I am  running '~$ ubuntu-bug xorg.' What logs (beyond the automatism) should I attach to my bug report?
[10:59] <cwillu_clone> bullgard4, just the automatic ones should be fine
[11:00] <bullgard4> cwillu_clone: Ok.
[11:00] <domjohnson> Hello
[11:00] <domjohnson> How do you restart alsa-utils?
[11:00] <domjohnson> Is it sudo alsa-utils restart?
[11:00] <gajop> Dr_Willis, this is some of the stuff that seems related http://pastebin.com/m362a57bd; though i'm not sure what it means
[11:00] <Dr_Willis> if its a service.. 'sudo service SERVICENAME restart'
[11:02] <domjohnson> Oh WHY did i upgrade to a development version?
[11:02] <domjohnson> lol
[11:02] <domjohnson> I have no sou d
[11:02] <Dr_Willis> gajop:  yea - those messages dont really say much othe rhten it ws looking for a filesystem and dident find any
[11:02] <bullgard4> cwillu_clone: Damn! I have almost finished my report. Now I read in Launcpad that I should have run '~$ubuntu-bug -p xorg'. What does the switch '-p' effect?
[11:03] <cwillu_clone> bullgard4, afaik, that's the exact same command
[11:03] <cwillu_clone> that's the obsolete syntax
[11:03] <cwillu_clone> i.e., for those silly people still running jaunty :p
[11:05] <bullgard4> cwillu_clone: The virtual console 1 shows a line: "render error detected, EIR: 0x00000010." Is this important for the present error report?
[11:06] <domjohnson> lol
[11:07] <bullgard4> domjohnson: Idiots keep laughing loudly without reasoning.
[11:07] <domjohnson> lol
[11:07] <domjohnson> :)
[11:07] <domjohnson> Ok, then, what i should have said is "lol@silly people running jaunty"
[11:08] <cwillu_clone> bullgard4, can't hurt
[11:08] <domjohnson> Anyway...
[11:09] <bullgard4> cwillu_clone: Ok.
[11:09] <cwillu_clone> domjohnson, /etc/init.d/alsa-utils restart should do it (there isn't an upstart job for it yet afaik)
[11:09] <domjohnson> Still get a tonne of errors
[11:10] <domjohnson> After i installed an old version of it :@
[11:10] <DarkMage23032> I've  downloaded Karmic twice, once through HTTP and once through torrenting, each time I get the error "Invalid or corrupted kernel image".
[11:10] <cwillu_clone> DarkMage23032, likely a bad burn or cd reader then
[11:11] <Dr_Willis> You checked the md5sum?
[11:11] <Dr_Willis> I always just make bootable flash media these days
[11:11] <DarkMage23032> hm
[11:11] <DarkMage23032> !md5
[11:11] <domjohnson> Its Probably cheaper, anywayt
[11:11] <domjohnson> *anyway
[11:12] <cwillu_clone> Dr_Willis, I reserve 1gb on my 500gb partitions for a livecd image :)
[11:12] <anderson> Hi , I upgraded to 9.10 and all of sudden m nt able to start wifi on my laptop. I cheked Hardware Drivers it sgows BroadCom =. Active but not in use!! M nt getting why
[11:12] <Dr_Willis> i reserver 500+GB on my drives just for video storage. :P
[11:12] <cwillu_clone> been bitten by particular flash drives not being bootable on particular machines too many times
[11:12] <rsk> anderson: report the bug to launchpad
[11:12] <Dr_Willis> cwillu_clone:  installing from hd to hd? :) that would be quick
[11:12] <anderson> thanks rsk
[11:13] <Dr_Willis> cwillu_clone:  yep - had that issue bwfor also..  seems if i enable lba flag on many of the problematic drives.. they work
[11:13] <cwillu_clone> Dr_Willis, not particularly, it's still based on a the livecd image
[11:13] <DarkMage23032> can you install ubuntu without burning it to a disk (excluding wubi)
[11:13] <Dr_Willis> DarkMage23032:  yes.. thats what we are talking about
[11:13] <cwillu_clone> depends on where you start from
[11:13] <Dr_Willis> unetbootin, or the usb-drive-creator tool can make bootable flash media
[11:15] <DarkMage23032> :O
[11:15] <DarkMage23032> thanks
[11:15] <Dr_Willis> im tempted to just remove the optical drive from this box. :)
[11:16] <imachine> sup,
[11:16] <imachine> I have a question:
[11:17] <imachine> is it possible to "iconify" evolution with indicator-applet ?
[11:17] <imachine> I get to run Pidgin sort of "inside" indicator-applet
[11:17] <imachine> so thre's no icon aside the indicator
[11:17] <imachine> I'd like that with evolution too, but not closing it and opening it :)
[11:17] <Dr_Willis> hmm..
[11:18] <Dr_Willis> !info alltray
[11:18] <Seren__> hi there, I got a long wait before being able to enter logn and password in kdm
[11:18] <Seren__> and nothing seems to happen
[11:18] <Seren__> (no HDD access etc)
[11:18] <Seren__> is this a known bug ?
[11:18] <cwillu_clone> devkit-power-gobject-WARNING **: Couldn't enumerate devices: The permission of the setuid helper is not correct
[11:19] <janaka> imachine: I have a similar problem with empathy as well
[11:19] <janaka> imachine: It doesn't dispay the icon on the top bar
[11:19] <imachine> Dr_Willis, don't want another one
[11:20] <imachine> Dr_Willis, alrady have enough icons
[11:20] <imachine> janaka, hehe it shouldn't
[11:20] <imachine> janaka, you just put in the indicator applet
[11:20] <imachine> it unifies all :)
[11:20] <janaka> imachine: ok thanks :)
[11:20] <imachine> you just click it and can choose: empathy, pidgin, evolution
[11:20] <imachine> janaka, but the problem is, I can't seem to "dock" evolution for 100%
[11:20] <imachine> it just closes and opens with I click the 'x' on evolution
[11:20] <janaka> imachine: OIC
[11:21] <imachine> whereas I'd like it to 'dock' inside the indicator applet..
[11:21] <imachine> like when I close 'x' the window with pidgin
[11:21] <imachine> it still runs, insides the indicator applet gizmodo
[11:21] <janaka> imachine: Yep I got it..
[11:22] <imachine> :))
[11:23] <|ns|nR8> is it just me or is 9.10 extremely buggy
[11:23] <|ns|nR8> 9.10beta
[11:23] <domjohnson> Yes, its buggy
[11:23] <|ns|nR8> thank gawd its not just me
[11:23] <imachine> extremely?
[11:23] <imachine> I wouldn't say so
[11:23] <Dr_Willis> i dont seem to have a lot of issues.
[11:23] <imachine> it's still a beta
[11:23] <imachine> about 150MB of commits daily
[11:23] <imachine> ffs
[11:24] <imachine> people are WORKING:)
[11:24] <imachine> try the RC
[11:24] <|ns|nR8> a week before final you would think the beta wouldnt be soo buggy
[11:24] <imachine> but for a beta it's pretty decent imho :)
[11:24] <domjohnson> RC?
[11:24] <imachine> and it's heading out
[11:24] <Dr_Willis> I just did a clean install   on this box. its actng better now when the alpha upgrades->beta that it was.
[11:24] <|ns|nR8> rc is out ?
[11:24] <imachine> domjohnson, yea just wait for the rc
[11:24] <imachine> |ns|nR8, not to my knowledge, not.
[11:24] <imachine> :)
[11:24] <imachine> not yet
[11:24] <domjohnson> I'm already on beta
[11:24] <imachine> so am I
[11:24] <imachine> so don't complain, it's a beta.
[11:25] <imachine> it's not THAT buggy :)
[11:25] <domjohnson> Im going into crunchbang and installing Ubuntu-Studio
[11:25] <imachine> I can run everything I got
[11:25] <imachine> evolution, firefox.
[11:25] <domjohnson> Its not TERRIBLY buggy, but it has bugs
[11:25] <imachine> flash, outube.
[11:25] <|ns|nR8> i tried the desktop installer...i clicked the final install button and it just closed...did that a few times...even after playing with partitions
[11:25] <imachine> wine
[11:25] <imachine> everything *just runs(
[11:25] <imachine> grub2 even
[11:25] <domjohnson> Only one bug im annoyed about is no sound
[11:25] <imachine> no problems :)
[11:25] <imachine> I have sound ;o
[11:25] <imachine> :D
[11:25] <|ns|nR8> so i instaled using the alternative installer......
[11:25] <imachine> it works great
[11:25] <imachine> :)
[11:25] <domjohnson> But #! has it (Its 9.04)
[11:25] <domjohnson> Anyway...
[11:25] <domjohnson> imachine, i hate you
[11:25] <imachine> |ns|nR8, I just upgraded.
[11:25]  * domjohnson is kidding!
[11:25] <imachine> domjohnson, get decent hardware :p
[11:25] <domjohnson> lol
[11:25]  * imachine intel VBI approved Compal EL80
[11:26] <imachine> all intel baby
[11:26] <imachine> proper hardware.
[11:26] <imachine> ;]
[11:26] <|ns|nR8> alternative installed it..grub2 didnt find my other os's...i ran updates and it crashed on next boot...its ddead
[11:26] <domjohnson> Im thinking of getting a new computer at christmas
[11:26] <|ns|nR8> dead
[11:26] <imachine> next one I'm getting with X4500 intel hd card.
[11:26] <imachine> that's gonn rock.
[11:26] <imachine> :-)
[11:26] <imachine> brb lemm check how I can sell this laptop :)
[11:26] <tgpraveen> imachine: hoiw much will that cost?
[11:27] <imachine> about 1500zł laptop.
[11:27] <cwillu_clone> so, I'm guessing that nobody else is seeing massive console-kit-related breakage at the moment
[11:27] <imachine> dunno how much euros or whatever.
[11:28] <domjohnson> Or i might just get some new decent hardware like video card, graphics card, ram (only have 768 ram)
[11:28] <domjohnson> cwillu_clone: what do you mean by that? My console works fine...
[11:29] <domjohnson> Hello kaddi
[11:29] <domjohnson> and serendippo
[11:29] <kaddi> hello domjohnson :)
[11:29] <imachine> domjohnson, duno
[11:29] <imachine> domjohnson, it's cheapo
[11:29] <imachine> lemm check my area reseller
[11:29] <domjohnson> What is?
[11:29] <domjohnson> Your computer?
[11:30] <cylex> finally beta is out!
[11:30] <kaddi> hehe, it is :)
[11:30] <cylex> I mean officially :)
[11:30] <cwillu_clone> um, in what sense could it even be unofficially?
[11:31] <kaddi> it could be available but not officially released yet
[11:31] <Dr_Willis> 'the official beta os of the 2010 olypics'!
[11:31] <Dr_Willis> :)
[11:31] <kaddi> :D
[11:31] <gsevil> I have problem with gdm, in normal boot, after disk check the screen turn black and stand there, I check syslog and have this http://paste.ubuntu.com/285306/   boot in to recovery mode then resume, startx manually then I can start Gnome
[11:31]  * cwillu_clone huggles gsevil 
[11:32] <cwillu_clone> WARNING: Unable to find users: no seat-id found
[11:32] <cwillu_clone> seems similar to what I'm seeing
[11:33] <gsevil> that's happen after I forget that U 9.10 use upstart, I run boot up manager to change something, then it crash
[11:33] <Dr_Willis> Hmm.. i thought i useed bum befor on 9.10
[11:34] <cwillu_clone> Dr_Willis, upstart-native jobs only came in a couple weeks ago
[11:34] <cylex> gsevil: try windos :P
[11:34] <cylex> he's lying
[11:34] <cylex> that's not what happens with ubuntu
[11:34] <cylex> if it doesn't start then startx won't work
[11:34] <Dr_Willis> Bum here works.. it seems.. at least it dident crash. :)
[11:35] <cwillu_clone> cylex, you seem quite sure of yourself :p
[11:35] <cylex> :)
[11:35] <cylex> troublemakers :)
[11:35] <gsevil> after manually startx, then run gdm, it shows login screen
[11:35] <cylex> gsevil: yea yea and I run t28
[11:35] <gsevil> so something mess up in the order of these startup
[11:35] <cylex> gsevil: paste the syslog
[11:36] <cylex> on pastebin
[11:36] <gsevil> http://paste.ubuntu.com/285306/
[11:36] <gsevil> that's the syslog with gdm problem
[11:37] <cylex> sorry I doubted yew :P
[11:37] <gsevil> so how can I change upstart boot order
[11:37] <cylex> have u tried loading gdm and customizing the xorg.conf?
[11:37] <gsevil> xorg.conf is loaded well
[11:38] <gsevil> I'm in gnome rightnow
[11:38] <gsevil> but I have to manually run startx
[11:38] <cylex> hmm
[11:38] <gsevil> so I think gdm is startup before x, then gdm show error
[11:38] <cylex> can u paste the x server logs
[11:39] <gsevil> http://paste.ubuntu.com/285310/
[11:40] <Andy80> guys, I continue having boot problems with 9.10 beta :\ sometimes it doesn't boot or it takes so long to boot. I removed the "quiet splash" from boot options to see what it happens but it simply stops booting. Now, after 3-4 times, I could boot normally, but look: even with quiet splash option, I see some text at boot and reading the release notes this is a bug. Does it happen to you too?
[11:40] <cylex> 4 09:55:48 searoses gdm-binary[3265]: WARNING: Unable to find users: no seat-id found
[11:40] <cylex> what's that heh
[11:41] <gsevil> cylex: don't know what is that
[11:42] <cylex> if  you don't mind, can I see ur xorg.conf
[11:42] <janaka> Andy80: We will have to wait few more days for the destro get stable i guess. I do have boot up problems sometimes. It hangs sometimes
[11:42] <Andy80> janaka: ok.. Im not alone then :P
[11:43] <gsevil> cylex: http://paste.ubuntu.com/285312/
[11:44] <Andy80> janaka: if other people is having this problem too, is good, so it means it will fixed as soon as possible
[11:44] <cylex> gsevil: you have radeon software installed?
[11:45] <gsevil> cylex: what do you mean?  I have ati xpress 200M so I have to use radeon open source driver
[11:46] <gsevil> cylex: everthing is ok until i use BUM to disable some startup service, then GDM stop working
[11:47] <Dr_Willis> so you use bum to disable like Openssh server and it broke gdm?
[11:47] <gsevil> so I think the problem is service boot up order, how can I change that, check that X server is start before GDM or GDM before X
[11:47] <gsevil> Dr_Willis: yes
[11:47] <Dr_Willis> i can 'test' :) if ya want.. heh
[11:47] <cylex> try update-rc.d -f startx remove
[11:48] <cylex> try update-rc.d startx defaults
[11:48] <cylex> that'll add it to the start up
[11:48] <kaddi> how to get amarok 2.2.0 onto karmic?
[11:48] <cylex> or u can reinstall it
[11:50] <gsevil> thank cylex, I'll try and comeback later
[11:50] <cylex> ok, but its not really solution
[11:50] <cylex> but it'll work for now
[11:52] <gsevil> cylex: sorry but there is no startx in /etc/init.d
[11:52] <cylex> plz add the full path
[11:53] <gsevil> i'm in /etc/init.d , show all file but there is no startx
[11:53] <cylex> locate startx
[11:53] <cylex> or whereis startx
[11:53] <topyli> gnome-bluetooth in 2.28 is supposed to work with your phone's mobile browadband tethering, but mine does not :(
[11:54] <cylex> then update-rc.d -f /path/to/startx remove
[11:54] <cylex> then update-rc.d /path/to/startx defaults
[11:54] <Ian_Corne> anyone else getting Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/libuniconf4.6_4.6-1_i386.deb
[11:55] <Ian_Corne> ?
[11:55] <gsevil> sudo update-rc.d -f /usr/bin/startx remove
[11:55] <gsevil>  Removing any system startup links for /etc/init.d//usr/bin/startx ...
[11:55] <gsevil> Died at /usr/sbin/update-rc.d line 57.
[11:55] <gsevil> I dont think that the way X start
[11:56] <cylex> ok
[11:56] <cylex> cp /usr/bin/startx /etc/init.d/startx
[11:57] <cylex> and update-rc.d startx defaults from /etc/init.d directory
[11:57] <cylex> update-rc.d startx defaults
[11:57] <pmatulis> anyone else getting 'trying to overwrite '/etc/uniconf.conf', which is also in package libuniconf4.4' ?
[11:59] <cylex> gsevil: any luck?
[11:59] <pmatulis> k, bug 441846
[11:59] <vigo> How do I allow UFW at boot? It says it is not enabled or something, I do not really know which ports or rules to apply for a simple educational demo.
[11:59] <gsevil> cylex, i'm checking, but that's not the default setup of ubuntu
[12:00] <cylex> true
[12:00] <durt> vigo, try the gufw frontend.
[12:00] <pmatulis> vigo: guess you should figure out the 2nd part of your questions before the 1st
[12:00] <cylex> but it'll get u to start X
[12:00] <cylex> on startup
[12:00] <cylex> update-rc.d -f startx remove  (to undo this)
[12:00] <vigo> durt: Thank you, I did that already, maybe that is the cause?
[12:00] <cylex> and remove startx file
[12:01] <DrHalan> hey, i can't boot any kernel > 2.6.31-4. It says "failed to mount ..." several times. Have there been changes in the ext4fs or so that could have caused that?
[12:02] <vigo> pmatulis: That is a variable that I am working around at at now.
[12:02] <yofel> DrHalan: anything with last mount time in the future?
[12:02] <pmatulis> vigo: ok
[12:02] <durt> vigo, see 'man ufw'
[12:02] <pmatulis> vigo: otherwise i think it's 'ufw enable'
[12:02] <DrHalan> yofel: pardon me?
[12:02] <cylex> gseviL: but u haven't given it a shot
[12:02] <vigo> Thank you.
[12:02] <cylex> you reboot the comp
[12:03] <yofel> DrHalan: do you get a message about that the last mount time in the future and you should run fsck by hand?
[12:03] <yofel> *mount time was in the future
[12:04] <luca> hi everyone
[12:04] <luca> one package refuses to install saying, after download (apt-get or synaptic) that "dimensions do not match"
[12:04] <DrHalan> yofel: i can boot fine iwth kernel 2.6.31-4 and lower. with the newer ones i just end up in "BusyBox"
[12:04] <luca> not from the ubuntu repos, but other software from there installs fine, and this package did install cleanly before I installed karmic
[12:04] <yofel> DrHalan: ok, thats not it then
[12:05] <DrHalan> and i don't really get how to report bugs in the new launchpad
[12:06] <yofel> DrHalan: you use the bug reporting feature in a application or ubuntu-bug from the command line
[12:06] <DrHalan> yofel: yeah thats what im told to but i have that bug before even startiong the kernel
[12:06] <yofel> DrHalan: there still is a way to report bugs manually, but that's not the preferred way
[12:06] <deeptz> guys i have copied kk image to usb stick using unetbootin
[12:06] <deeptz> i reebot in usb it starts installation
[12:06] <deeptz> i want it to boot as a live image
[12:07] <deeptz> does it not work with cd image
[12:07] <deeptz> is thr a separate image for live cd/dvd
[12:07] <yofel> deeptz: are you sure you used the live-image?
[12:07] <yofel> not the alternate one
[12:07] <cwillu_clone> well
[12:07] <ActionParsnip> deeptz: did you just copy the ISO to the USB or did you use an actual tool to put the data on properly?
[12:07] <cwillu_clone> target system doesn't have /sbin/init
[12:07] <cwillu_clone> lovely :p
[12:08] <cwillu_clone> argh, it overwrote my initramfs!
[12:08] <deeptz> http://releases.ubuntu.com/karmic/ubuntu-9.10-beta-alternate-i386.iso
[12:08] <cwillu_clone> (settings.  my initramfs settings)
[12:08] <deeptz> i used this image
[12:08] <deeptz> i use unetbootin
[12:09] <yofel> deeptz: that's the wrong one, use the daily one
[12:09] <yofel> errr... live on
[12:09] <gsevil> cylex: i try but it's not working
[12:09] <cylex> u didn't do it properly
[12:09] <gsevil> X start then stop
[12:09] <deeptz> wht's the link
[12:09] <cylex> copy /usr/sbin/startx
[12:09] <deeptz> URL
[12:09] <vigo> deeptz: There is an article on how to customize the Live-CD, here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
[12:10] <cylex> cp /usr/bin/startx /etc/init.d/startx
[12:10] <cylex> update-rc.d startx defaults
[12:10] <cylex> that's it
[12:10] <yofel> deeptz: http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-beta-desktop-i386.iso
[12:10] <cylex> and reboot
[12:10] <gsevil> I do exactly what you told
[12:10] <deeptz> this will create a live image
[12:10] <cylex> do the above plz
[12:11] <gsevil> check that there is startx in /etc/rc*.d
[12:11] <yofel> deeptz: yes, the desktop cd is the live image
[12:11] <deeptz> okeii/
[12:11] <gsevil> then I see in my screen, X start, then stop
[12:11] <deeptz> let me try........
[12:11] <deeptz> thks.....
[12:11] <gsevil> I'll do it again
[12:12] <cylex> k
[12:12] <vigo> Wow, we broke the 300 # of peoples here...
[12:14] <deeptz> is thr a japanese mirror for http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-beta-desktop-i386.iso for this image......
[12:14] <shadeslayer> deeptz: check out the download page for it
[12:15] <shadeslayer> !download
[12:15] <ActionParsnip> deeptz: i use this: http://www.pendrivelinux.com/usb-ubuntu-904-persistent-install-windows/
[12:15] <Dr_Willis> I need to learn more abouyt upstart. Not sure how it does things. :)
[12:16] <cylex> can I teach u?
[12:16] <cylex> heh
[12:16] <Dr_Willis> I tend to use unetbootin. or the usb-creator tool to make a live cd
[12:16] <Dr_Willis> Theres no 'startx' or gdm in  /etc/rc2.d any more
[12:16] <cylex> update-rc.d scriptname defaults   (<-- adds to startup)
[12:16] <Tarthen> Hello
[12:16] <deeptz> oks let me check....i prefered unetbootin....
[12:16] <Tarthen> Is a 1:15 boot time bad for Karmic>
[12:17] <cylex> update-rc.d -f scriptname remove (<-- deletes it)
[12:17] <Dr_Willis> cylex:  thats how its always worked.. so were is it making those cnahges at. Its not seeming to do anything to the rc2.d dir.
[12:17] <Tarthen> FYI, this machine gets 16 sec on Jaunty
[12:17] <cylex> there's this file call s30gdm or something
[12:17] <cylex> when its capital S30gdm
[12:17] <yofel> cylex: thats the sysvinit way, not the upstart way
[12:17] <cylex> hmm
[12:18] <Dr_Willis> cylex:  err.. i think you need to re learn some stuff. :) that file is NOT there any more
[12:18] <cylex> what do you mean upstart way
[12:18] <Dr_Willis> thats what i am getting at.
[12:18] <Dr_Willis> upstart is the new way of doing the init stuff.. you are thinking of the old sysv way
[12:18] <Dr_Willis> things have been getting moved to upstart more and more with each release.
[12:18] <yofel> cylex: sysvinit is getting deprecated and upstart takes over, the new scripts are in /etc/init/
[12:18] <Dr_Willis> aha /etc/init.. lets see
[12:18] <vigo> Tarthen: I think that is like optimal for now. I have not yet timed this one since last update/upgrade
[12:18] <Tarthen> ouch
[12:18] <yofel> I don't quite get how it works now too yet...
[12:19] <shadeslayer> deeptz: http://ftp.cs.pu.edu.tw/Linux/Ubuntu/ubuntu-cd/ <<-- Taiwan server
[12:19] <cylex> ah
[12:19] <Tarthen> uhm
[12:19] <Tarthen> vigo: Why is this? Just a temp regression?
[12:19] <vigo> Tarthen: The Dasher thing is not yet or whatever implemented in Karmic, yet.
[12:19]  * yofel goes back to read the upstart wiki
[12:19] <Tarthen> "dasher"?
[12:19] <Dr_Willis> There we go. looking at /etc/init/gdm.conf
[12:19] <Dr_Willis> yofel:  got that url handy? i need to bookmark it to read later
[12:20] <cwillu_clone> cylex, incidently, upstart job definitions are dramatically simpler than sysvinit jobs
[12:20] <shadeslayer> Dr_Willis: http://ftp.cs.pu.edu.tw/Linux/Ubuntu/ubuntu-cd/
[12:20] <shadeslayer> oops
[12:20] <shadeslayer> Dr_Willis: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/
[12:20] <yofel> DrHalan: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/
[12:20] <cylex> cwillu_clone: but it was fine in 9.04
[12:20] <cylex> k
[12:20] <shadeslayer> tyopos... :P
[12:21] <Dr_Willis> that same site. :) heh - i was there befor..  looking for a slightly more 'upstart for beginners' not programers. :) but i will look at it again
[12:21] <Dr_Willis> most of that site is a little over my head.
[12:21] <cwillu_clone> question:  shouldn't there be a console-kit-daemon in /etc/init/?
[12:22] <Dr_Willis> most of the /etc/init/whatever.conf files seem rather straight forward.
[12:23] <yofel> yes, it's much simplier than sysvinit... once you understand it
[12:25] <Dr_Willis> and theres one script in /etc/init that is doing the 'sysv compatibility' feature it seems
[12:25] <Dr_Willis> still not sure how the order of these things getting ran are being defined.
[12:26] <DrHalan> yofel: is upstart only used with newer kernels or what?
[12:26] <yofel> Dr_Willis: the order is defined at 'start on ...' in the config files
[12:26] <yofel> DrHalan: no idea
[12:27] <Dr_Willis> right i see hwere 'start on net-device-added INTERFACE-lo'  so some how theres a net-device-added 'event' ? or a script that it some how monitors.
[12:27] <penguin42> Dr_Willis: It's just the order of the filename in /etc/rc* - and those come from the top of the files I think
[12:27] <cylex> found it
[12:27] <cylex> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/getting-started.html
[12:28] <yofel> penguin42: NO, thats the old way
[12:28] <cylex> gonna go read
[12:28] <Dr_Willis> yofel:  yea. i was about to say that. :)
[12:28] <penguin42> yofel: Oh, you mean the upstart magic - oh heck don't know that
[12:28] <yofel> hm...
[12:28] <yofel> !upstart
[12:28] <Dr_Willis> gdm starts on (filesystem and started hal) so some how it waits for BOTH befor the gdm service begins.
[12:28] <yofel> duh, she knew it after all...
[12:29] <yofel> Dr_Willis: really? wouldn't it have to use 'started filesystem' then too?
[12:29] <cylex> if ppl don't come back that means it worked, eh?
[12:29] <yofel> well, let's read again...
[12:29] <Dr_Willis> looking at /etc/init/gdm.conf right now
[12:30] <yofel> cylex: either yes or it got worse ^^
[12:30] <luca> is there a way to set custom dns in karmic? I am trying to change that in the wireless configuration (NetworkManager) but it does not seem to stick
[12:30] <yofel> luca: nm-applet configuration is broken right now
[12:30]  * penguin42 has both /etc/init/gdm.conf and /etc/init.d/gdm hmm
[12:30] <Dr_Willis> bbl
[12:31] <yofel> luca: you'll either have to edit /etc/networking/interfaces or edit your gconf profile by hand
[12:31] <Dr_Willis> penguin42:  but if you look in /etc/rc2.d theres no gdm in there any more
[12:31] <luca> yofel: thanks
[12:31] <Dr_Willis> penguin42:  more and more services are getting moved to upstart it seems
[12:31] <yofel> penguin42: yes, /etc/init.d/gdm is a symlink to 'upstart-job'
[12:31] <vega-> when is nm-applet NOT broken, i've never been able to set a static config through it..
[12:31] <Dr_Willis> off to da store. bbl
[12:31] <ikt>  <yofel> luca: nm-applet configuration is broken right now <- far out, indicater applet still crashing
[12:31] <penguin42> Dr_Willis: Oh yeh
[12:32] <penguin42> yofel: Oh yeh (again!)
[12:32] <yofel> ^^
[12:32] <vega-> and whole of networkmanager, only working thing is to deinstall it
[12:32] <chu_> Is there likely to be any problems with programs in a transition from Jaunty to Karmic, via Synaptic's File-Save & File_Read Markings?
[12:33] <luca> vega: quite harsh. Apart for this (relatively minor for me) issue everything is fine here with NM
[12:33] <yofel> hm, 'initctl list' sounds useful :)
[12:33] <yofel> vega-: knetworkmanager works fine here ;)
[12:33] <vega-> well that's my experience, other problems include preferring wireless over wired, and to use wired one must always disable wireless by hand
[12:33] <vega-> etc.
[12:36] <penguin42> hmm pidgin is incredibly verbose on dbus
[12:36] <Tarthen> Speaking of Pidgin
[12:37] <Tarthen> if there's links in chats, I can't click them. Anyone else get that?
[12:37] <vega-> yofel: good for you, i'm more of a gnome person myself.. :)
[12:37] <Tarthen> as in, I click the link and FF doesn't do anything
[12:37] <Zvezdichko> !bug 442145
[12:37] <vigo> Tarthen: My apologies, dasher is that other thing, too many windows and not enough functional digits.
[12:37] <Zvezdichko> This is what I fired just a moment ago
[12:37] <Tarthen> hehe
[12:37] <yofel> vega-: np, used gnome for a long time too while kde4 was unusable, switched back now ;)
[12:38] <Tarthen> vigo: It'll be fixed before release, won't it ;)
[12:38] <luca> yofel: how's kubuntu 9.10?
[12:38] <ikt> !swearing
[12:38] <ikt> !insults
[12:38] <vigo> Tarthen: I am assuming it will be,,,,,,
[12:38] <ikt> hrmm
[12:38] <ikt> !respect
[12:38] <luca> yofel: I have switched to gnome a long time ago too, so I am curious
[12:38] <Zvezdichko> yofel : Changing the package yesterday didn't help and it doesn't affect only OpenArena. We have a total desktop freeze (instead of loss of sound). Firing a global X Bug. Hope devs will look at it
[12:38] <vigo> !language
[12:38] <penguin42> ikt: I think you're looking for language
[12:39] <ikt> ah ok
[12:39] <ikt> yeah I was gonna say some pretty mean things about totem continually crashing and in general being a COMPLETE *%@#*(!
[12:39] <yofel> luca: rather nice, but kde4 is pretty different from kde3 if you didn't use it yet
[12:39] <penguin42> Tarthen: No, links look fine
[12:39] <Tarthen> penguin42: Hmm
[12:40] <luca> yofel: I tried it seriously about a year ago, but I have not been using a full session for a long time
[12:40] <yofel> heh, back then it really wasn't ready for prime time yet...
[12:41] <luca> yeah, you can say that :)
[12:41] <vigo> Tarthen: It looks to me like Pidgin is on the outs, am not an Official Ubuntu Spokesperson, but I just read that Empathy is the new thing.
[12:41] <luca> ok I have to log out and in to install the sharing services
[12:41] <luca> bue
[12:41] <luca> *bye
[12:41] <yofel> I used gnome till karmic alpha3 and switched to kde then. And I'm rather pleased by it
[12:42] <vigo> yofel: I placed Edbuntu in after A-3, i kinda like it.
[12:46] <gsevil> I have problem with gdm upstart script , use "start gdm" show this error http://paste.ubuntu.com/285356/ . I run gdm manually then it start
[12:48] <yofel> o.O
[12:52] <yofel> ok, why is everybody else havin upstart issues and I don't???
[12:53] <Zvezdichko> boot issues?
[12:53] <yofel> Zvezdichko: well, there were several people already reporting that kdm and gdm don't start. Both start fine here
[12:54] <Zvezdichko> My GDM sstarts fine
[12:54] <cwillu_clone> yofel, updated recently? :p
[12:54] <gsevil> it's work fine before i use bum to disable some service
[12:54] <cwillu_clone> I can't log in either as of a few hours ago, but my laptop logs in fine
[12:54] <gsevil> or may be after I update
[12:54] <cwillu_clone> and I didn't do questionable things with /etc/init{,.d} jobs :p
[12:54] <yofel> I updated just now (mirror though)
[12:55] <Zvezdichko> should a betatester update constantly?
[12:55] <Zvezdichko> I think I should delay the next update for a day or two
[12:56] <yofel> Zvezdichko: well, if you want to test everything update once you get updates, if you know somethings broken and you don't want to debug it then wait ;)
[12:58] <yofel> gsevil: can you run 'initctl list' after a reboot and if gdm doesn't start and pastebin the output please?
[13:02]  * penguin42 hopes upstart turns out easier to learn than Solaris startup database
[13:03] <unimatrix> may i ask why on earth does 64bit karmic still install a 32bit flash plugin?
[13:03]  * yofel never used solaris but at least hopes it's easier to maintain than sysvinit
[13:03] <yofel> unimatrix: iirc the 64bit flash is still a alpha/beta
[13:03] <cwillu_clone> yofel, alpha
[13:03] <unimatrix> no it's not
[13:04] <cwillu_clone> unimatrix, show me the download link
[13:04] <unimatrix> http://download.macromedia.com/pub/labs/flashplayer10/libflashplayer-10.0.32.18.linux-x86_64.so.tar.gz
[13:04] <Tarthen> wha
[13:04] <Tarthen> I'm using 64bit flash, I thinl
[13:04] <Tarthen> think*
[13:04] <cwillu_clone> "labs"
[13:04] <cwillu_clone> unimatrix, THAT'S THE BLOODY ALPHA
[13:04] <Tarthen> unless Synaptic pointed me to 32bit :P
[13:04] <unimatrix> well it works a million times better than that piece of s**t nspluginwrapper
[13:05] <penguin42> unimatrix: nspluginwrapper seems to work ok in chromium
[13:05] <unimatrix> too bad chromium doesn't work well
[13:06] <unimatrix> even if it's alpha... who cares? it works better, that's all that matters
[13:06] <unimatrix> i don't understand why you would want it to work worse
[13:06]  * penguin42 thinks it normally works great - the current build seems to have an annoying bug with ctrl-w but flash works very well in it
[13:07] <penguin42> unimatrix: What problem do you have with chromium?
[13:07] <villewitt> Anyone know how totem will be with DVB in Karmic?
[13:07] <unimatrix> penguin42: sometimes it takes a minute to begin loading a certain page
[13:07] <penguin42> unimatrix: Woah, I've never seen that
[13:07] <unimatrix> penguin42: digg.com is where it often happens
[13:08] <penguin42> unimatrix: Nope, never get that - I use digg all the time
[13:08] <DrHalan> anyone? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/442161
[13:08] <unimatrix> gnash is a joke
[13:09] <penguin42> unimatrix: I'd agree if I saw it take a minute to load a page I'd say it was useless; but I don't hit that problem
[13:11] <unimatrix> penguin42: i wish i could use it... it's much more CPU friendly than firefox
[13:12] <penguin42> unimatrix: I wonder if you are seeing a DNS problem of sometype
[13:17] <DrHalan> unimatrix: whats the problem. works awesome on youtube already. this update should also allow webcam and microphone input  :)
[13:18] <DrHalan> ndiswrapper often crashes for me. So i don't really like using the adobe plugin on 64-bit
[13:19] <unimatrix> that's why it would be reasonable to use 64bit flash
[13:20] <yofel> +1, but it's still alpha and won't be included
[13:21] <unimatrix> as if that means anything... we can't see the code so why does it really matter if adobe decides to call it alpha
[13:23] <Raphi974> Hi everyone
[13:29] <cwillu_clone> unimatrix, I think you might have this channel confused for a place where things are actually decided
[13:29] <cwillu_clone> a bug report (request to package) or the mailing list would be more useful
[13:29] <unimatrix> i've submitted a brainstorm idea
[13:30] <unimatrix> just came here to make sure my eyes aren't lying to me, because i couldn't believe that 32bit flash was actually being installed by flashplugin-nonfree
[13:40] <yoota> file a bug instead
[13:52] <chris_> i just upgraded to 9.1 and my mouse quit working. Not to mention it is going very slow for some reason. When i typed it takes 10-15 seconds to show up. does anyone know what might be going on? the mouse is a touchpad on my laptop by the way
[13:52] <eagles0513875> chris_: sounds like a compiz issue if i am not mistaken
[13:53] <chris_> any suggestions?
[13:54] <eagles0513875> chris_: can you try and disable compiz
[13:54] <chris_> what is that
[13:57] <imachine> hey, any windows 7 users ?
[13:57] <imachine> does win7 live up to ubuntu 9.10?
[13:57] <imachine> is it worth the hassle?
[13:58] <chris_> i use windows 7. it is a lot better than vista but i wouldnt compare window to linux in any version they are too different
[13:59] <eagles0513875> imachine:  compared to vista its better but nothing beats linux
[13:59] <eagles0513875> or ubuntu
[13:59] <Ian_Corne> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntuone-client/+bug/402050
[13:59] <Ian_Corne> gah
[14:00] <pushrax> hi all.  In karmic kde4, how do I restart the panel system?  in kde it used to be called kicker
[14:01] <pushrax> my panels have crashed
[14:01] <eagles0513875> pushrax: i think you could restart x by hitting alt e if im not mistaken
[14:01] <pushrax> eagles0513875: will that kill the session?
[14:01] <Forza4Life> anyone have any idea why nvidia settings wont save the config file when i set up dual monitors?
[14:02] <Forza4Life> im running it in gksudo
[14:02] <eagles0513875> pushrax: ya restarts x and takes u back to the login screen
[14:02] <eagles0513875> !dual
[14:02] <eagles0513875> !monitors
[14:02] <Ian_Corne> Forza4Life: are you sure you click the save to Xorg button?
[14:02] <Ian_Corne> apply won't save it
[14:03] <Forza4Life> yes  i did   said "failed to parse xorg file"
[14:04] <Forza4Life> it worked in jaunty  but wont in karmic
[14:04] <yofel> Forza4Life: 'save to X configuration file' should give you a window where to save the file or to show a preview
[14:05] <Forza4Life> yes  i hit that button and it brings up a dialog box saying "failed to parse existing x config file
[14:06] <yofel> Forza4Life: tried to move the current file?
[14:06] <Forza4Life> no
[14:06] <BluesKaj> howdy all
[14:06] <Forza4Life> im somewhat noobish....moving files is something i try to avoid
[14:06] <yofel> Forza4Life: try that or pastebin the current file please, since it says that's the broken one
[14:07] <pushrax> eagles0513875: worked it out.  I killed plasmoid and then ran the command sudo plasma-desktop
[14:07] <Forza4Life> but what worked in jaunty should work here
[14:07] <yofel> Forza4Life: type in a terminal: 'sudo mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.bak'
[14:08] <yofel> Forza4Life: yes, and it works fine here, but I can't be sure what's broken for you if I don't see the xorg.conf file
[14:08] <pushrax> eagles0513875: the only problem is that it's running in the cli and waiting and reporting.  I don't know how to run the command in a separate process.
[14:08] <eagles0513875> pushrax: ahhhh ok but if that doesnt work killing x would be ur next bet
[14:08] <eagles0513875> pushrax: killl the command and run it with & will background it so you can close the cli window and it will still run
[14:08] <eagles0513875> or
[14:08] <eagles0513875> save your work and log out and back in
[14:08] <pushrax> eagles0513875: yeah I just didn't want to kill of my work which I couldn't switch too but though the system activity lsit
[14:08] <Forza4Life> ok   ran that command
[14:09] <Forza4Life> ill try nvidia settings again
[14:09] <pushrax> so put '&' at the end of the command?
[14:09] <eagles0513875> ya pushrax will bg the cli task and keep it running
[14:09] <robin0800_> yofel: clean installs of ubuntu don't have an xorg.conf file now!
[14:09] <pushrax> eagles0513875: ok thanks man.  cheers and I'm off..
[14:10] <eagles0513875> pushrax: no problem :)
[14:10] <yofel> robin0800_: ok... maybe that's the issue...
[14:10] <yofel> well, anything new Forza4Life?
[14:10] <BluesKaj> purged pulseaudio , but the icon still shows up in system settings/media , how to get rid of it?
[14:11] <imachine> eagles0513875, ok cool
[14:11] <Forza4Life> yofel, i msged you
[14:13] <Forza4Life> ty ty yofel
[14:15] <Forza4Life> yofel, ty much  it worked
[14:15] <yofel> Forza4Life: :)
[14:15] <Forza4Life> man karmic boots fast
[14:15] <Zvezdichko> yes it boots very fast
[14:17] <Forza4Life> ok    thats so far my only issue with karmic  and thats been fixed
[14:22] <penguin42> only bug I have that's a pain is when I resume I still get mirrored display sometimes
[14:24] <u0802> is it worth upgrading from 9.04 to 9.10 ?
[14:24] <Forza4Life> yes
[14:24] <Forza4Life> i just completed upgrading and im liking it
[14:24] <yofel> u0802: if you don't mind to risk a broken system yes
[14:25] <Forza4Life> yes  things may break
[14:25] <Forza4Life> depends
[14:25] <Forza4Life> im trying to figure out this new ubuntu one thing
[14:25] <yofel> there were reports from 'no issues at all' to 'doesn't boot at all'
[14:25] <yofel> Forza4Life: it's for file sharing, like dropbox
[14:26] <Forza4Life> yes  im seeing that   but it wont let me log in to it or something
[14:26] <Forza4Life> ah well i hafta go to work
[14:26] <Forza4Life> bbl
[14:26] <ziroday> Forza4Life: it uses your launchpad account...
[14:27] <u0802> i am really happy with 9.04... so not going to upgrade soon, but always interested about the new experience.... consider waiting for 10.04 before making an upgrade.
[14:27] <zionpsyfer> Attempted the upgrade last night & the upgrade failed.  Looking for logs to determine the cause.  /var/log/apt/term.log has some info, but doesn't describe any errors.  I didn't find anything in syslog or messages. Is there another log that update-manager writes to?
[14:28] <penguin42> zionpsyfer: I'd try it again and also just check simple things like if you have enough disc space
[14:29] <Forza4Life> zionpsyfer, i had the same issue last night....but i downloaded the iso and it ran smooth off that
[14:29] <yofel> u0802: you could always try the live disk if you want
[14:31] <zionpsyfer> penguin42,  I should, / has 60 gigs free and /boot has 2 gigs.  I'll give it a shot, but I'd prefer to collect as much info as I can before a reboot/retry in case it's needed for a bug report.  looking around, I probably should have installed apt-log first.
[14:31] <u0802> good idea
[14:32] <penguin42> hmm weird - left click seems in flash seems to have stopped working since my last reboot and that's in both chromium and firefox
[14:32] <penguin42> ohhh - I know what I've done - I've turned on compiz
[14:33] <duffydack> is the beta still alpha 6?
[14:33] <thiebaude> penguin42, in chrome i cant adjust the volumn in flash
[14:33] <penguin42> thiebaude: Are you running with desktop-effects?
[14:34] <yofel> duffydack: ?
[14:34] <thiebaude> penguin42, yes
[14:34] <penguin42> thiebaude: Try turning it off
[14:34] <thiebaude> ok,
[14:34] <thiebaude> brb
[14:34] <duffydack> yofel, on the ubuntu.com site.  the link it provides for the "beta" is it still alpha 6?
[14:35] <eagles0513875> no duffydack its not
[14:35] <yofel> duffydack: no, the beta is the beta
[14:35] <duffydack> oh so its a proper beta
[14:35] <duffydack> hah
[14:35] <eagles0513875> duffydack: if your on alpah six all you need to do is run sudo apt-get upgrade if you are already running karmic
[14:35] <duffydack> doh.
[14:36] <thiebaude> penguin42, its compiz thats the problem
[14:36] <penguin42> thiebaude: I'm not sure if it's actually compiz or nspluginwrapper or flash's fault
[14:36] <penguin42> thiebaude: I remember this bug from years ago
[14:37] <thiebaude> penguin42, with compiz off it works, with compiz enable it doesn't work
[14:37] <thiebaude> controlling the volumn control with the mouse
[14:38] <penguin42> thiebaude: Yep, same here - but it doesn't mean the bug is actually in compiz
[14:38] <hosoka> hello all
[14:38] <hosoka> How is everything overhere ?
[14:38] <AlanBell> has anyone tried to get Karmic booting on the OLPC?
[14:38] <thiebaude> penguin42, yep thats true, i dont know
[14:39] <AlanBell> I have one running debian at the moment and I think the time has come to get Karmic up and running on it
[14:39] <yofel> hosoka: welcome ;)
[14:39] <thiebaude> penguin42, anyway with compiz, i put the pointer on volumn control and use the up arrow key
[14:40] <thiebaude> like i said for me its no show-stopper
[14:40] <penguin42> thiebaude: Nod, try playing a flash game that way :-)
[14:40] <wekt> I dist-upgraded.  Now my system is remarkably laggy, yet the CPU is unladen.  How can I find out the cause?
[14:40] <hosoka_> hello all ?
[14:40] <hosoka_> All ok in this room ?
[14:40] <yofel> hi hosoka_
[14:41] <thiebaude> penguin42, remember there are bugs in compiz
[14:41] <penguin42> thiebaude: Nod, but there are bugs in everything
[14:41] <thiebaude> penguin42, and there be fixes in the next few days
[14:42] <penguin42> where's an amaranth when you need one!
[14:42] <thiebaude> yep
[14:43] <thiebaude> well, i enable the cube and rotating cube again,lol
[14:44] <tgpraveen> anyone here tried video chat on empathy successfully?
[14:44] <thiebaude> tgpraveen, empathy is broke for me
[14:44] <thiebaude> i dont like it
[14:45] <tgpraveen> anyon else?
[14:45] <Crashbit> I need to start compiz manually using command "compiz --replace &"
[14:45] <hosoka_> hey yofel, you also here ?
[14:46] <yofel> hosoka_: since I'm running karmic yes ;)
[14:46] <zionpsyfer> Ouch, looks like apt is pretty upset by all of this.  It wants to remove 485 packages, upgrading none.
[14:46] <hosoka_> I have an issue where after installing the 9.04 that works fine on my laptop and decided to upgrade to 9.10 my laptop screen after the grub starts flashing.
[14:47] <hosoka_> on the alfa release I didn't had that issue and I believe with the beta version it's hurting my eyes.
[14:48] <hosoka_> the laptop that I'm using is the Compaq Presario CQ50
[14:49] <ilPisano1> hi, i got a problem with update. In apt-get i have an error for the package libuniconf4.6
[14:49] <penguin42> thiebaude: I believe we're seeing bug #141494
[14:50] <BluesKaj> how to edit system settings on kde4 ?
[14:50] <thiebaude> penguin42, yes i believe so
[14:51] <thiebaude> penguin42, i got alot of gcc updates, total of 40mb right now
[14:51] <yofel> ilPisano1: known issue, run 'sudo dpkg -r libuniconf4.4' in a terminal and try again
[14:51] <penguin42> thiebaude: Well that's nice
[14:51] <thiebaude> sure is, im grabbing any update,lol
[14:52] <ilPisano1> yofel: worked ty
[14:52] <hosoka_> Is there a way to stop this flashing screen after the reboot when I upgraded to 9.10 ?
[14:52] <thiebaude> and i always restart even if i dont have to
[14:53] <funkyHat> ek! compiz is goned!
[14:53] <yofel> hosoka_: not sure, might be something framebuffer or xsplash related
[14:56] <Crashbit> funkyHat: how?
[14:56] <penguin42> thiebaude: I knew I'd seen that bug before - see bug #108733 - it was referenced by the other one - I reported that back in 2007!
[14:56] <funkyHat> Crashbit: I'll link to the bug in a sec
[14:56] <Crashbit> ok
[14:57] <thiebaude> penguin42, not fixed yet
[14:58] <thiebaude> im going to read the bug
[14:58] <funkyHat> Crashbit: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/442256
[14:59] <thiebaude> penguin42, you think its safe to remove nspluginwrapper?
[14:59] <penguin42> thiebaude: Well you could use 64bit flash
[14:59] <penguin42> thiebaude: To be fair I think the bug got fixed and broke again
[14:59] <thiebaude> im going try something
[15:00] <thiebaude> brb
[15:00] <hosoka_> yofel: on the alfa 9.10 there was no issue with it. I believe it has something with this beta release.
[15:01] <yofel> hosoka_: I really have no idea what could be causing it, you DO have all updates installed?
[15:01] <thiebaude> penguin42, nspluginwrapper is not even installed for me
[15:02] <thiebaude> hmm
[15:02] <hosoka_> for the 9.04 was ok and after the upgrade to the alfa last time it worked perfect, untill this beta came out then suddenly started the flash after have seen the Grub
[15:02] <penguin42> thiebaude: Oh right! Worth commenting on that newer bug then
[15:02] <hosoka_> yofel: indeed I have updated and upgraded once again and still the same issue.
[15:03] <yofel> hosoka_: no idea then, sry
[15:03] <NoelJB> thiebaude, acrobat reader, it seems, still uses nspluginwrapper.
[15:03] <thiebaude> penguin42, you have a link for 64bit flash?
[15:03] <thiebaude> NoelJB, oh,ok
[15:03] <NoelJB> thiebaude, http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html
[15:04] <NoelJB> should be an FAQ item  :-)
[15:04] <thiebaude> NoelJB, thanks
[15:04] <hosoka_> yofel: ok, no problem. I will remove back to 9.04 and wait till the final release.
[15:05] <NoelJB> I hope that gets into the repos soon so that people can stop complaining about how badly nspluginwrapper sucks, and just use the native 64-bit flash.
[15:05] <Trewas> meh, working sound would surely be nice... teaches me not to upgrade my main desktop early in the future
[15:06] <penguin42> NoelJB: I heard that it won't go into repos until adobe makes it a release
[15:07] <funkyHat> Oh, and it's working again now. bah!
[15:08] <funkyHat> Looks like that compiz bug might actually be the fault of xpra, which I installed thinking I might try it out
[15:08] <NoelJB> penguin42, someone has it in a PPA ... let me find it again ...
[15:08] <thiebaude> my flash quality is pretty good
[15:09] <topyli> i have a little vertical black line in the notification area like this: http://server2.jaatiedostosi.com/oGgxZM/Screenshot.png
[15:09] <NoelJB> penguin42, https://launchpad.net/~sevenmachines/+archive/flash/+packages
[15:09] <topyli> is this common?
[15:10] <Trewas> also wasn't there some noises made about booting speed improvements? 55s to boot up a modernish c2d desktop does not seem all that fast...
[15:10] <dupondje> hmz, SD Card doesn't get shown in Nautilus it seems ?
[15:10] <dupondje> [146332.771157] mmc0: new high speed SDHC card at address 8df0
[15:10] <dupondje> but nothing gets shown :(
[15:10] <funkyHat> topyli: I've seen it sometimes. It belongs to an application that isn't behaving properly
[15:11] <topyli> hrm
[15:11] <NoelJB> dupondje, works fine here.
[15:11] <dupondje> weird :s
[15:12] <NoelJB> dupondje, do you see it under Computer?  Is there a /dev entry for it?  Is there a chip in the reader?
[15:12] <NoelJB> OK, you should have /dev/mmc0
[15:12] <NoelJB> is it just not being mounted?
[15:13] <dupondje> /dev/mmcblk0p1
[15:13] <dupondje> can mount it manually
[15:13] <dupondje> just doesn't show icon for it in Nautilus ..
[15:14] <NoelJB> dupondje, ah, yes, sorry.  I have mmcblk0 and mmcblk0p1 (raw and partition, respectively)
[15:14] <NoelJB> dupondje, ok.
[15:14] <NoelJB> dupondje, is this a migrated user or a clean install?
[15:14] <NoelJB> dupondje, I'm guessing it is a gconf setting.
[15:14] <Amaranth> penguin42: What bugs? :)
[15:15] <thiebaude> Amaranth, haha
[15:15] <dupondje> NoelJB: working since Alpha 2 with Karmic, worked always
[15:15] <dupondje> but seems broken now
[15:15] <topyli> funkyHat, empathy, apparently
[15:15] <NoelJB> dupondje, hmmm ... still working here, as I said.
[15:15] <Amaranth> Oh, right, flash sucks
[15:15] <penguin42> Amaranth: #141494 - seems to be a resurrection of #108733 maybe; except thiebaude says he isn't using nspluginwrapper
[15:16] <thiebaude> synaptic says it not installed
[15:16] <funkyHat> Can someone try installing xpra and restarting (someone using Compiz)?
[15:16] <Amaranth> Yeah, it affects chromium too because of out of process plugins
[15:16] <NoelJB> dpkg -l | grep nsp
[15:16] <dupondje> lets do a reboot :P
[15:17] <penguin42> Amaranth: I'm curious what the cause is if it's actually known
[15:17] <Amaranth> penguin42, thiebaude: Considering it only seems to happen to flash I'm not too concerned tbh
[15:17] <Amaranth> penguin42: Nope
[15:17] <Amaranth> I blame flash
[15:18] <penguin42> Amaranth: A brave move; and indeed it might be true - difficult to say - it's a pain for people though
[15:18] <thiebaude> Amaranth, no, im not
[15:18] <Amaranth> penguin42: Also most likely nothing I can do
[15:18] <Amaranth> thiebaude: If you aren't using out-of-process plugins it probably isn't the same bug
[15:18] <Amaranth> thiebaude: But it's also not a compiz bug :)
[15:18] <NoelJB> Amaranth, what would you prefer to Flash?  Silverlight?
[15:18] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Yes, actually
[15:19] <Trewas> at least the sound was fixed easily, spdif output was just muted...
[15:19] <Amaranth> Because we have an open source implementation and the original developer gave us the test suite
[15:19] <NoelJB> Wow ... someone who actually trusts Microsoft
[15:19] <dupondje> damn
[15:19] <thiebaude> i use some MS codecs,lol
[15:19] <dupondje> it becomes to look like windows :) after a reboot it worked again :P
[15:19] <thiebaude> wmv.
[15:19] <NoelJB> Amaranth, yes, but have you noticed how many Silverlight sites only work with Microsoft's implementation?
[15:20] <Amaranth> NoelJB: I've never been to a Silverlight website but does the 2.0 beta of moonlight help?
[15:20] <penguin42> NoelJB: It's very difficult to reverse eng implementations and get stuff really portable off anything
[15:22] <NoelJB> Amaranth, nope.  I have (as far as I know) the latest Silverlight (1.99.5)
[15:22] <NoelJB> Moonlight, rather
[15:22] <yofel> *sigh* amarok is still broken...
[15:22] <Amaranth> yofel: Try again Monday
[15:23] <NoelJB> penguin42, I know.  Some does Microsoft.  Which is why anyone who trusts them is a foolish fish waiting to be eaten.
[15:23] <Amaranth> Ubuntu development basically dies on weekends
[15:23] <thiebaude> NoelJB, how do i get moonlight?
[15:23] <yofel> Amaranth: hehe
[15:23] <Rovanion> Hi guys. Is there any solution for the update mananger and software installer in Kubuntu not asking for permissions to actually install anything?
[15:23] <Amaranth> Rovanion: iirc they won't be a fix at all this release
[15:24] <Amaranth> s/they/there/
[15:24] <penguin42> What's the symptom?
[15:24] <NoelJB> Rovanion, I just use sudo apt-get * on my kubuntu installs.
[15:25] <Rovanion> When the actions selected are to be executed I get the error that the updater doesn't have the permissions requirered and is therefor canceling
[15:25] <Rovanion> NoelJB, Well that won't do for the end release of Kubuntu
[15:25] <NoelJB> thiebaude, Firefox add-ons :-)
[15:25] <Amaranth> Rovanion: Yeah, something about polkit-qt not working right and kpackagekit requiring it
[15:25] <Amaranth> Rovanion: Dunno what they're going to do
[15:25] <thiebaude> NoelJB, thanks
[15:26] <Rovanion> Amaranth, So there's no solution out yet then?
[15:26] <Amaranth> Rovanion: Nope
[15:26] <Trewas> firefox 3.5 font rendering is completely f*cked up, UI does not even use the same fonts that other programs use (like gnome-panel), and it uses some sort of subpixel anti-smoothing to make them look even more horrible
[15:26] <Amaranth> They were still talking about what the problem is Friday and no one works on weekends so...
[15:27] <Rovanion> Amaranth, Okey, well that's not a problem I'd expect in a beta. The problems should be a bit more trivial like apt: links not working in firefox.
[15:27] <Rovanion> But as long as it's not in the final xD
[15:27] <Amaranth> Rovanion: We're time-based
[15:28] <Amaranth> Rovanion: If it boots and installs it goes out the door :P
[15:28] <Dr_Willis> apt links worked in firefox here...
[15:28] <Rovanion> Dr_Willis, Kubuntu?
[15:28] <Dr_Willis> On ubuntu here.
[15:28] <Rovanion> Dr_Willis, Kubuntu doesn't have FF installed by default but determine Konqueror to be enough by standardd
[15:29] <Rovanion> So I guess those are two different packages
[15:29] <Rovanion> Ubuntu FF and Kubuntu FF that would be..
[15:30] <Dr_Willis> Hmm.. ff would be the same i would think
[15:31] <yofel> it is the same, kubuntu-desktop just doesn't depend on it
[15:31] <NoelJB> Rovanion, checking now ...
[15:31] <yofel> NoelJB: he already left
[15:31] <topyli> grrr totem can't find channels conf. it shows a dialog saying "Please follow the instructions provided in the link to create a channels listing" but there's no link :(
[15:31] <sassyn> 9.0.10
[15:32] <sassyn> beta is cool
[15:32] <Amaranth> penguin42: compiz saying software rasterizer detected is not a compiz bug....
[15:32] <sassyn> but I can't install it
[15:32] <sassyn> did someone check it out?
[15:32] <penguin42> Amaranth: Oh sorry, I didn't think I was referring to that one - I thought I was still on the flash one
[15:32] <Amaranth> penguin42: that message means you have no 3D acceleration so we're refusing to run because the software fallback got good enough to run compiz at 2 fps
[15:32] <milaz> Had anybody any luck with NetworkManager in Karmic Beta?
[15:32] <NoelJB> milaz, yes.  why?
[15:32] <penguin42> Amaranth: Sure, wouldn't argue with that error
[15:33] <milaz> It is completely borken for me: no LAN, no DSL.
[15:33] <Amaranth> penguin42: so xpra kills your software acceleration?
[15:33] <NoelJB> hardware?  nics?  log files?
[15:33] <yofel> sassyn: what's your exact issue?
[15:33] <penguin42> Amaranth: ?? I've not got that error or that problem - I think you ahve the wrong person
[15:34] <Amaranth> whoops, you're right
[15:34] <Amaranth> funkyHat: ^
[15:34] <milaz> When I'm trying to add a DSL connection, I fill username and password fields, click Apply button, and get an error with %s and %d symbols inside
[15:34] <Dr_Willis> ive been hearing of some network manager issues on and off today...
[15:34] <Rovanion> I just broke my kubuntu with an ATi driver. Say do I have to reinstall or can I undo my wrongdoings in some way?
[15:35] <yofel> afaik nm-applets gui configuration is broken
[15:35] <Dr_Willis> Rovanion:  how did you install the driver?
[15:35] <Rovanion> Dr_Willis: Official ATi driver from their website. Version 9.9 amd64
[15:35] <milaz> LAN just doesn't work too
[15:35] <NoelJB> milaz, file a bug report.  you can also visit #nm,
[15:36] <NoelJB> milaz, I have NM working with eth0, wlan0, and my wireless broadband modem.
[15:36] <NoelJB> But 0.8 is substantially different from 0.7
[15:36] <yofel> milaz: you DO have your network card shown in ifconfig?
[15:36] <milaz> NoelJB: thanks, I'll do that
[15:37] <milaz> yofel: yes, and I can set-up LAN with command-line with ifconfig, route, and /etc/resolv.conf
[15:37] <milaz> yofel: the same with manually calling pppd for DSL
[15:37] <yofel> milaz: ok, then report a bug like NoelJB said
[15:37] <NoelJB> milaz, you can also kill (using service, now, not killall) network-manager, and start it up in a terminal window with --no-daemon, and capture the output.
[15:37] <Rovanion> Dr_Willis: Is there any ATi driver for the 48XX series working in the beta?
[15:37] <Amaranth> Rovanion: 2D
[15:38] <Amaranth> Rovanion: oh, there is also fglrx-installer which has a version of fglrx you can only get from Ubuntu
[15:38] <NoelJB> milaz, NM 0.8 depends on udev events.  We'll have to see what's going on.
[15:38] <Rovanion> Amaranth: I want ze OpenGL
[15:39] <Rovanion> Amaranth: Anyways, how do I get hold of this fglrx driver?
[15:39] <NoelJB> milaz, one person, for example, was having problems with wireless because his system declares the radio to be switched off unless they explicitly turn it on with the radio switch.  he had to reenable a BIOS setting so that it would.
[15:39] <Amaranth> Rovanion: System->Administration->Hardware Drivers
[15:40] <Rovanion> Amaranth: Now lets say I just installed them from the ATi website and am sitting in irssi in a CLI?
[15:40] <Amaranth> Rovanion: *groan*
[15:40] <Amaranth> kill it with fire
[15:40] <Dr_Willis> :0
[15:41] <Rovanion> Amaranth: Maybe I do not like the cutting edge. But I want KDE 4.3... I want KDE 4.3 but with a stable ground bah.
[15:41] <Dr_Willis> actually he could edit the xorg.conf and set the  Driver line back to 'ati' or 'vesa' couldent he?
[15:41] <milaz> NoelJB: for DSL, I did a bug report for alpha-5: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/432205
[15:41] <Amaranth> Rovanion: Step 1: figure out how to undo the damage the upstream fglrx installer caused
[15:42] <NoelJB> BBIAB
[15:42] <yofel> Amaranth: wouldn't removing the xorg.conf at least get him X back?
[15:43] <Amaranth> yofel: maybe, it depends on what the upstream installer does these days
[15:43] <Amaranth> yofel: the nvidia one, for example, overwrites parts of Xorg so they only work right with nvidia
[15:43] <Rovanion> say does kdm restart restart xorg along with it?
[15:43] <yofel> Amaranth: well, I use nvidia, and in the default installation it only adds the section required to change the driver
[15:43] <NoelJB> Amaranth, uh ... sorry, but I don't even HAVE an xorg.conf with nvidia in karmic.
[15:44] <milaz> NoelJB: It looked very suspicious for me after the line "NetworkManager: <WARN> pppd_timed_out(): Looks like pppd didn't initialize our dbus module"
[15:44] <thiebaude> nivida 8400 gs is good for me
[15:44] <yofel> NoelJB: I do
[15:44] <Rovanion> NoelJB: Funny story. I was missing my Xorg one day in Jaunty. I couldn't find it anywhere but Xorg worked
[15:44] <Amaranth> yofel: Did you use the packages? :)
[15:44] <Rovanion> xorg.conf that is
[15:45] <NoelJB> yofel, you're right.  I don't have xorg.conf on another system.
[15:45] <yofel> Amaranth: yes, had to modify it with nvidia settings though to get dual screen running
[15:45] <NoelJB> Rovanion, Xorg is getting away from needing the xorg.conf.  when possible, it detects which driver(s) to use, and other config items.
[15:45] <yofel> Amaranth: but it was there after the package installation
[15:45] <Amaranth> yofel: Right so the packages properly move the stuff they're replacing aside
[15:45] <NoelJB> as yofel said, I have a device section and a modules section for glx.  that's it.
[15:46] <yofel> Amaranth: yep, I had my lesson in the past with not-package nvidia driver installation ;)
[15:47] <Rovanion> Anyways, going to try rebooting
[15:48] <funkyHat> Amaranth: yeah, I knew that's what that message meant, I _do_ have 3D acceleration though. Actually it's working again now, after uninstalling xpra, which is what makes me think it could be caused by that
[15:48] <funkyHat> Although I didn't realise that xpra would actually start up or get in anything's way without me telling it to
[15:49] <Amaranth> funkyHat: Apparently xpra does some goofy stuff that makes glxinfo say you've got no acceleration
[15:49] <Ian_Corne> does fglrx work yet?
[15:49] <Ian_Corne> without to much hassle
[15:49] <Amaranth> Ian_Corne: Sure, just go to System->Administration->Hardware Drivers
[15:50] <NoelJB> milaz, add the contents of /e/n/i to the report, just so that we have it.
[15:50] <Ian_Corne> Amaranth: yes, i know you can install them but last time i tried them (alpha 4 or something) it completly locked up my system :p
[15:50] <funkyHat> Amaranth: so should my bug be filed against xpra?
[15:50] <Amaranth> funkyHat: already done :)
[15:50] <Amaranth> funkyHat: does xpra even work?
[15:50] <funkyHat> Amaranth: I didn't try it
[15:51] <Ian_Corne> ubuntu-desktop kept back for anyone else?
[15:51] <thiebaude> Ian_Corne, not me
[15:51] <funkyHat> Amaranth: parti-all?
[15:51] <Ian_Corne> ok
[15:51] <Ian_Corne> i'm on a fresh beta cd on this box :)
[15:51] <Amaranth> Ian_Corne: as long as it only wants to remove 1 package and replace it with a similar looking one a dist-upgrade should be fine
[15:51] <yofel> Ian_Corne: do a apt-get dist-upgrade, a package was replaced
[15:51] <Ian_Corne> Amaranth: nah it's just kept back
[15:51] <milaz> NoelJB: thanks, I'll reboot now and try it
[15:51] <Amaranth> libgpm2-noxpm or something
[15:52] <Amaranth> Ian_Corne: even with a dist-upgrade?
[15:52] <Ian_Corne> yep
[15:52] <Ian_Corne> so broken dependency or something
[15:52] <Amaranth> Ian_Corne: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[15:52] <Rovanion> Well this aint going anywhere. Bah I wanted KDE 4.3 with flashy effects. Now I'll have to either reinstall 9.10 or go with Mint KDE edition and then upgrade to 4.3
[15:52] <Amaranth> Ian_Corne: it'll tell you why
[15:52] <Ian_Corne> i'm using the main server as repo
[15:52] <Ian_Corne> ok
[15:53] <Ian_Corne> hmm it can install that way
[15:53] <Ian_Corne> but it won't dist-upgrade
[15:53] <Ian_Corne> aptitude does dist-upgrade
[15:53] <Ian_Corne> The following NEW packages will be installed: libgd2-xpm
[15:53] <Ian_Corne> The following packages will be REMOVED: libgd2-noxpm{a}
[15:54] <Amaranth> Ian_Corne: ok, that's fine
[15:54] <Ian_Corne> guess it should be ok
[15:54] <Amaranth> this is why you should use aptitude instead of apt-get :)
[15:54] <Amaranth> It has a smarted dependency resolver
[15:54] <Amaranth> err, smarter
[15:54] <Ian_Corne> yeah, i'm getting to know the virtues of aptitude during this release cycle
[15:55]  * yofel really likes aptitudes interactive mode
[15:55] <BluesKaj> !aptitude
[15:56] <thiebaude> Amaranth, i didn't even know that
[15:56] <BluesKaj> aptitude has been my installer/remover since jaunty
[15:56] <Amaranth> BluesKaj: That's not exactly correct anymore
[15:56] <tbone> yofel: Hi, i talked to yesterday about my kdm not starting at boot
[15:56] <yofel> thiebaude: ever tried the ncurses interface
[15:56] <thiebaude> BluesKaj, i'll use it from now on
[15:56] <yofel> tbone: yes, wb
[15:56] <Amaranth> BluesKaj: libapt itself (and thus apt-get) keeps track of unused dependencies now too
[15:56] <thiebaude> yofel, no, i heard of it
[15:57] <BluesKaj> Amaranth, well speak with the ops about changing the bot datbase :)
[15:57] <Amaranth> hehe
[15:57] <yofel> thiebaude: just run 'sudo aptitude' if you want to test it ;)
[15:57] <thiebaude> so its aptitude-get install
[15:57] <thiebaude> ok
[15:57] <Amaranth> no, just aptitude install
[15:57] <thiebaude> ahh,ok
[15:57] <tbone> yofel:  well the results are in sudo start kdm doesn't work and start kdm does work
[15:57] <thiebaude> that easier
[15:58] <Amaranth> BluesKaj: Oh, ha, it says dapper or earlier
[15:58] <Amaranth> gotta wait 18 months to remove that bit
[15:58]  * penguin42 still tends to use apt-get - it's kind of coded into my wrists; it might have helped if they had chosen something shorter than aptitude
[15:58] <tbone> yofel: so I have checked that paths but the are all correct,  is there any way of stepping through the process line by line?
[15:58] <Amaranth> penguin42: apti,tab>
[15:58] <yofel> tbone: can you pastebin the output of 'initctl list' from a tty when kdm doesn't start? It should give the current state of all services at that point
[15:59] <Amaranth> bleh
[15:59] <thiebaude> aptitude install didn't work
[15:59] <Amaranth> thiebaude: well you have to tell it a package too
[15:59] <thiebaude> E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
[15:59] <thiebaude> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
[15:59] <thiebaude> sorry
[15:59] <Amaranth> thiebaude: Oh, you need sudo
[15:59]  * penguin42 hands thiebaude a sudo
[15:59] <thiebaude> ok thanks
[15:59] <thiebaude> or slaps me
[15:59]  * penguin42 slaps thiebaude with a trout
[15:59] <BluesKaj> I just use the arrow key to find the last instance of update or remove to save typing
[15:59] <tbone> yofel: I will try
[15:59] <thiebaude> penguin42, yea thats better
[16:00] <BluesKaj> or install
[16:00] <Amaranth> apt-get install is aptitude install, apt-get upgrade is aptitude safe-upgrade, apt-get dist-upgrade is aptitude dist-upgrade, apt-cache search is aptitude search, apt-cache info is aptitude info
[16:00] <Amaranth> Everything else apt-cache and apt-get do aptitude doesn't have
[16:00] <Amaranth> but aptitude has changelog
[16:00] <yofel> tbone: I'm still learning how upstart works but that might give a hint at what's wrong
[16:01] <tbone> yeah i was trying to find some info on upstart found there website
[16:01] <Amaranth> (aptitude is missing rdepends, madison, source, etc)
[16:01] <penguin42> madison?
[16:01] <Amaranth> penguin42: try apt-get madison compiz
[16:01] <Amaranth> err, apt-cache madison compiz
[16:01] <tbone> but, i could extract much to much of how it works from that stone
[16:02] <penguin42> Amaranth: Hmm that's a new one for me
[16:02] <yofel> penguin42: there is 'rmadison compiz' too if you want a complete list
[16:02] <Amaranth> yeah but that one isn't nearly as useful
[16:03] <yofel> Amaranth: true
[16:03] <Amaranth> yofel: actually that one doesn't seem to be working
[16:03] <yofel> Amaranth: it works here, but it tends to take a while...
[16:04] <Amaranth> E: Invalid operation rmadison
[16:04] <Amaranth> Not that it matters, it's useless :P
[16:04] <yofel> Amaranth: it's a seperate command, not a apt-get builtin!
[16:04] <Amaranth> bleh, I always forget that
[16:04] <Amaranth> I've only used it once or twice
[16:05] <commander_> why doesn't the reboot,suspend,hibernate,n shut down features working. i have to manually reboot every time
[16:05] <commander_> HELP
[16:10] <Ian_Corne> The following packages are BROKEN: jetty
[16:11] <Ian_Corne> seems like both eclipse and netbeans are having issues
[16:14] <Martyn> Morning
[16:14] <Martyn> yep
[16:14] <Martyn> I'm having some problems with eclipse as well today, but I found the bug was already reported in launchpad
[16:14] <Martyn> medium severity
[16:14] <Ian_Corne> well i can't install it properly, it has broken dependencies
[16:15] <Ian_Corne> !empathy
[16:15] <Ian_Corne> myeah hope they do some additional work on empathy still
[16:16] <uffo> hello how i can install nvidia driver, 9.04 i done this way i used CTRL+ALT+F1 then i used "sudo killall gdm" then i used "sudo sh xxxnvidia.run" BUT now killall gdm do not destroy xorg and i cannot install nvidia drivers ???
[16:17] <yofel> Ian_Corne: can't install what? jetty?
[16:18] <Ian_Corne> yes
[16:18] <yofel> Ian_Corne: works fine here though (amd64)
[16:18] <Ian_Corne> same
[16:18] <Ian_Corne> well same as in, i'm also on 64 bit
[16:18] <Ian_Corne> what repo are you using?
[16:19] <Ian_Corne> i'm using main server
[16:19] <yofel> german mirror
[16:19] <Amaranth> uffo: system->administration->hardware drivers
[16:19] <Ian_Corne> The following packages have unmet dependencies: jetty: Depends: libtomcat5.5-java which is a virtual package.
[16:20] <uffo> Amaranth: no i prefer lastest .run drivers
[16:20] <BluesKaj> uffo, remove the existing nvidia driver first then alt+ctrl+F1 , stopX with "sudo /etc/init.d/kdm stop" , install the new driver , then "sudo /etc/init.d/kdm start"
[16:20] <Amaranth> uffo: You're on your own then
[16:21] <Ian_Corne> ok time to test fglrx for HD 4870 on karmic 64 bit
[16:21] <Ian_Corne> go!
[16:21] <yofel> Ian_Corne: uuups, jes it's broken... (I still have the jaunty repositoris enabled here so I didn't notice it ^^)
[16:21] <Ian_Corne> hehe :p
[16:22] <NoelJB> Ian_Corne, looks like they dropped tomcat 5.5 for tomcat 6.
[16:22] <uffo> BluesKaj: i have fresh ubuntu and why sudo killall gdm do not work anymore ??
[16:22] <yofel> guess the depends needs to be bumped then...
[16:22] <NoelJB> uffo, service gdm stop
[16:22] <NoelJB> or stop gdm
[16:22] <Dr_Willis> 'sudo service gdm stop'
[16:23] <NoelJB> caused by the switch from init scripts to upstart
[16:23] <Dr_Willis> if using gnome/gdm that is
[16:23] <BluesKaj> uffo, kill all is not good linux practice, check my pm to you
[16:23] <NoelJB> Dr_Willis, uffo reports to be using gdm
[16:24] <uffo> yes i use ubuntu not kubuntu
[16:24] <mac_v> hm.. i seem to be having too many libindicates    o.0    ... i have libindicate3 .. do i need libindicate1 , libindicate2 , libindicate-gtk0 ?
[16:24] <NoelJB> yofel, perhaps.  depends on what jetty needed.  if API dependent, the tomcat code change.  if it just needed the servlet API, that's in a separate package.
[16:24] <Dr_Willis> mac_v:  various programs might need the different versions
[16:25] <BluesKaj> ok uffo then replace kdm with gdm in the those commands
[16:25] <uffo> Thanks sudo service gdm stop worked and install started
[16:26] <NoelJB> mac_v, I have libindicate3 and gtk1
[16:26]  * Dr_Willis knew there was a reason he has been saying  use 'service' command for the last year+ :)
[16:26] <arielCo> Hello, I tried to dist-upgrade to Karmic but my /var partition is only 890M big and has 523M free. Is there a way to do it without enlarging it?
[16:26] <NoelJB> mac_v, you can try to remove libindicate1 and 2 and see if anything complains.
[16:26] <yofel> Dr_Willis: yep, but only now you really need to use it :P
[16:27] <penguin42> arielCo: Try and clear out some of it, also you might be able to do it by removing as many packages as possible and then reinstalling them after the upgrade - it'll be tight though!
[16:27] <Dr_Willis> arielCo:  you could link some of the dirs in /var/ to some other place with more room. (not a great fix, but a way to do it)
[16:27] <yofel> /etc/init.d/gdm stop should still work though
[16:27] <Ab3L> hi
[16:27] <Ab3L> i have a problem with karmic (the problem was there with jaunty). if a window like xchat is maximized, the screen becomes black. i have the same problem with firefox. if the size of the window is smaller, the frequence of black screens is also lower. does someone know the problem?
[16:28] <BluesKaj> Dr_Willis, he still has to remove the existing driver first , otherwise it will remain as the default
[16:28] <NoelJB> arielCo, I was just typing something similar to Dr_Willis comment.  you can temporarily replace /var/cache/apt with a link to more space.
[16:28] <arielCo> penguin: looks really tight
[16:28] <arielCo> Dr_Willis: what are the most demanding dirs for the upgrade?
[16:28] <Ab3L> i am doing tests now. if the window is bigger than the half of the screen i have the problem.
[16:28] <Dr_Willis> arielCo:  no idea.   /var/cache is proberly a biggie
[16:28] <penguin42> Ab3L: Sounds like a driver problem
[16:29] <yofel> arielCo: it's /var/cache/apt/archives/
[16:29] <yofel> arielCo: since that's the place where all the new package files will be placed at during the upgrade
[16:29] <Ab3L> penguin42, i think so also. it is maybe caused by the open source driver of ati cards.
[16:30] <Ab3L> penguin42, suggestions?
[16:30] <arielCo> currently: 41M	/var/cache/apt, after apt-upgrade, but I could symlink all of /var/cache.
[16:30] <penguin42> Ab3L: I've not actually used that driver, but I suggest you start by filing a bug against it
[16:30] <NoelJB> arielCo, you just need to symlink /var/cache/apt, I believe.  you'll need, IIRC, ~2GB
[16:31] <dupondje> [ 4270.826163] type=1503 audit(1254670124.612:45): operation="open" pid=6038 parent=6029 profile="/sbin/dhclient3" requested_mask="r::" denied_mask="r::" fsuid=0 ouid=0 name="/usr/share/synce-hal/dhclient.conf"
[16:31] <dupondje> [ 4270.826203] type=1503 audit(1254670124.612:46): operation="mknod" pid=6038 parent=6029 profile="/sbin/dhclient3" requested_mask="w::" denied_mask="w::" fsuid=0 ouid=0 name="/var/run/dhclient-synce-eth1.lease"
[16:31] <Ab3L> penguin42, i do not know how to do it and where to do it.
[16:31] <dupondje> how can I fix those ? seems like there aren't rules for synce yet in apparmor
[16:31] <arielCo> NoelJB: yup, it asked me for ~1 GB more
[16:31] <yofel> arielCo: be careful when doing that, symlinking the folder I told you should be enough, and don't forget to create an empty 'partial' folder in it
[16:31] <arielCo> yofel: roger that
[16:32] <penguin42> Ab3L: Is it a radeonhd or the other one?
[16:32] <yofel> since apt will barf when it's missing
[16:32] <arielCo> penguin42, yofel, Dr_Willis, NoelJB: thanx everyone for the info; I'm going to try it now
[16:33] <yofel> arielCo: good luck!
[16:33] <penguin42> Ab3L: I suggest from a command line running ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg-video-radeon or radeonhd
[16:33] <Ab3L> penguin42, it is not a radeonhd. so i cannot use proprietary driver.
[16:33] <Ian_Corne> ok fglrx works perfecty :)
[16:33] <zorael> What could cause the X in Karmic to keep automatically wake the monitor after it's suspended itself? Doing "xset dpms force {off,standby,suspend}" also makes the screen blank for a second and then wake again. Running KDE if that matters
[16:34] <zorael> waking*
[16:34] <NoelJB> dupondje, I just grep'd my logs and don't have those entries.
[16:34] <penguin42> zorael: What happens if you do sleep 5;xset dpms force ....
[16:34] <dupondje> NoelJB: but you don't have synce ? ;)
[16:34] <Ab3L> Ian_Corne, fglrx works with radeonhd, not with older radeon, doesn't it?
[16:34] <NoelJB> dupondje, ah, no. I was just looking.  :-)
[16:35] <zorael> penguin42: wakes instantly (well, after half a second)
[16:35] <Ian_Corne> Ab3L: sorry don't know
[16:35] <Ian_Corne> i'm on HD 4870
[16:35] <redcard> Is there any chance that Empathy is going to get pulled in favor of Pidgin again?
[16:35] <Ian_Corne> older ati cards have perfect open source driver support, no?
[16:35] <zorael> penguin42: As in; sleeps 5, goes black, short pause, wakes
[16:36] <penguin42> zorael: On my Gnome intel 945G install xset dpms force off works with a small sleep before it
[16:36] <Ab3L> Ian_Corne, no. the screen becomes black each "n" seconds...
[16:36] <yofel> redcard: empathy will be default in karmic
[16:36] <Ian_Corne> Ab3L: ok :p
[16:36] <thiebaude> redcard, i wish it were
[16:36] <redcard> yofel: I hope it's not THIS empathy that i'm using.  15 disconnects in the past three hours, 9 crashes of the program outright, and 3 crashes of the notifier app
[16:36] <Ab3L> Ian_Corne, penguin42, I have to restart. please wait for a while...
[16:37] <yofel> redcard: no idea, I don't use it
[16:37] <Ian_Corne> and how many bugreports redcard ?
[16:37] <zorael> penguin42: This is a 945GME, maybe KDE causes it then
[16:37] <redcard> Ian_Corne: From me?  None yet.  Still tracking things.  There are reports filed by others, tho
[16:37] <Ian_Corne> i also hope some mroe work is done on empathy,
[16:38] <redcard> Plus, last I heard, they're not completely done uploading all the Empathy stuff in, so I don't want to report on an incomplete integration.
[16:38] <Ian_Corne> when a new IM contact msgs me, it doesn't show a new windows
[16:39]  * mac_v removes cruft 
[16:39] <NoelJB> redcard, they can always close a bug if it is fixed.  and you can always install pidgin, xchat, skype, et al.
[16:39] <redcard> NoelJB: Yeah, I know I can install the other stuff.  But Empathy was pulled from Jaunty cause it wasn't ready.
[16:39] <redcard> Why can't those qualities still hold?
[16:39] <thiebaude> mac_v, it removes too much stuff?
[16:40] <thiebaude> BUGabundo, hi
[16:40] <mac_v> thiebaude: huh?
[16:40] <NoelJB> redcard, and is in karmic  because they want more guinea pigs before Lucid.  Plus, they want the telepathy framework.  No one is forcing you to actually use code that isn't ready for prime time.
[16:40] <yofel> hi BUGabundo
[16:40] <thiebaude> cruft
[16:40] <redcard> NoelJB: Makes sense, I guess.
[16:41] <yofel> zorael: I have a 945GME with kde here and if I turn it off with xset it stays off, sure you don't ahve anything running that wakes it?
[16:41] <redcard> The answer "the user should just install pidgin again because we default to code that's not ready" does seem a bit silly to me, though
[16:42] <BUGabundo> hey yofel thiebaude mac_v NoelJB
[16:42] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, and a good morning to you, mate.  :-)
[16:42] <mac_v> BUGabundo: ola ;)
[16:43] <BUGabundo> :)
[16:44] <zorael> yofel: No "apps" running besides Konversation and the network manager
[16:44] <zorael> konsole to enter the command, I guess
[16:44] <Andy80> I've a problem with any USB key/disk: when I plug them, they're not mounted :\ they worked fine with Jaunty. how can i resolve this?
[16:45] <NoelJB> Andy80, are they showing up in Computer?
[16:45] <Martyn> Andy80 : Yell very very loudly at the machine, thump it on the side, and be sure to swear at it in Russian
[16:45] <yofel> zorael: I have psi and yakuake running right now on it so I'm clueless
[16:45] <NoelJB> Andy80, and (if necessary) what does udevadm monitor --env show?
[16:45] <Martyn> OTOH -- could you pastebin the result of dmesg right after you insert the drive?
[16:45] <Andy80> NoelJB: what do you mean with "are they shown in Computer" ?
[16:45] <NoelJB> Andy80, OK, Gnome or KDE?
[16:46] <Andy80> NoelJB: Gnome... anyway: http://pastebin.ca/1592623 this is what udevadm shows
[16:47] <NoelJB> Andy80, if Gnome, Places->Computer.
[16:47] <NoelJB> Do they appear there?
[16:47] <Andy80> NoelJB: no, my USB key doesn't appear there
[16:48] <redcard> welp. All the bugs I've experienced are already filed, so there's nothing more to add.
[16:48] <NoelJB> Andy80, you need to have udevadm monitor --env running when you insert/remove the device.  I don't see any USB activity in what you pasted.
[16:48] <bobertdos> So what has replaced menu.lst?
[16:48] <arand> I'm looking for a way to install karmic onto a partition from within jaunty, how do I go about doing that?
[16:48] <zorael> yofel: Do you know of any way to make xset (or whatever) verbosely log what's waking the screen?
[16:48] <NoelJB> bobertdos, /boot/grub/grub.cfg, but you don't want to edit it manually.
[16:49] <ActionParsnip> bobertdos: /boot/grub/grub.cfg but wil be replaced when update-grub runs
[16:49] <yofel> zorael: no
[16:49] <ActionParsnip> bobertdos: editting grub now is MASSIVELY complex :(
[16:49] <bobertdos> that's what I thought
[16:49] <bobertdos> :(
[16:49] <mac_v> !grub2 | bobertdos
[16:50] <bobertdos> oh boy, this gonna be fun :P
[16:50] <NoelJB> I'm still trying to see if I can INSTALL karmic with grub1 instead of grub2.
[16:50] <mercutio22> I am not getting message notifications in empathy
[16:50] <ActionParsnip> NoelJB: dont see why not
[16:50] <Andy80> NoelJB: should I run it manually or should I expect it to start automatically at boot?
[16:50] <Andy80> NoelJB: (retoric question, of course...)
[16:50] <NoelJB> ActionParsnip, OK, but how?  If you have a clean partition (or one already ext3), how do you get grub1 installed INSTEAD?
[16:50] <ActionParsnip> Andy80: is the partition not visible in: sudo fdisk -l ?
[16:51] <Martyn> NoelJB : You cannot do a plain install of Karmic with grub-original
[16:51] <NoelJB> I'll get around to grub2 later, but for now, I have a fairly complex grub setup across multiple partitions.
[16:51] <NoelJB> Martyn, yeah, that's a problem.
[16:51] <mac_v> NoelJB: grub also works... install grub from the repos
[16:51] <Volkodav> My sound hardware (onboard HD sound) is not recognised
[16:51] <ActionParsnip> NoelJB: boot to a liveCD and follow the grub reinstall procedure
[16:51] <Martyn> NoelJB : You can only upgrade jaunty->karmic, preserving grub-original
[16:51] <Martyn> NoelJB : No, that is -not- a problem.  It's by design
[16:51] <Volkodav> it is ok in jaunty and all
[16:51] <yofel> NoelJB: afaik the only way to get karmic with grub1 is install jaunty and upgrade or install karmic and then install grub1
[16:51] <Andy80> NoelJB: it looks visible: http://pastebin.ca/1592630
[16:51] <mac_v> NoelJB: oh yea h , from a live cd ;)
[16:52] <Martyn> NoelJB : The point is that we want to make grub2 work for all systems.  If it doesn't work for you, we need to know why, and you need to report the bug
[16:52] <Andy80> ActionParsnip: http://pastebin.ca/1592630
[16:52] <bobertdos> Oh, well at least for now, the only things I want to change are in /etc/default/grub, so that's good I guess.
[16:52] <ActionParsnip> Andy80: its partition name is /dev/sdb1   yuo can mount that manually now
[16:52] <Martyn> NoelJB : Basically, we're trying to get grub2's development accelerated
[16:52] <NoelJB> mac_v, ok, you need to understand.  I have 5 boot partitions, plus a dedicated GRUB partition.  Everything else is GRUB 1, using configfile statements from the master loader.  I am trying to transition.
[16:52] <NoelJB> Martyn, see above ^^^
[16:53] <dv-> anyone else finding evince using a lot of memory?
[16:53] <Martyn> grub1 chainloads grub2 without issue...
[16:53] <ActionParsnip> NoelJB: if it doesnt work, you can always reinstate grub2
[16:53] <yofel> Volkodav: you mean lspci doesn't show your card? Then please report a bug with 'ubuntu-bug linux'
[16:53] <Martyn> so you can still have a grub2 partition that grub1 boots...
[16:53] <Ab3L> penguin42, Ian_Corne, i am here again. (now i'm running hardy, so i can read easely)
[16:53] <NoelJB> Martyn, I've already discussed with cj doing the upgrade of grub2 for the master partition and migrating, but I doubt that it will be painless.
[16:53] <Andy80> ActionParsnip: I know I can mount it manually.... I'm asking why/how it's not mounted automatically just like in Jaunty. Man... if Karmic cannot mount a simple USB key, this is more than a regression....
[16:53] <mac_v> NoelJB: still , the reinstall is similar to grub and grub2... i'v seen folks here still using grub1
[16:53] <NoelJB> dv-, wouldn't know. I use acrobat reader.
[16:54] <NoelJB> Martyn, boosting grub2 development is worthy, but in the meantime, there could have been a non-default option to install grub1, just as you don't FORCE people to use ext4.
[16:55] <Andy80> NoelJB: just reading your problem... does it mean that if you do upgrade from Jaunty to Karmic you remain with GRUB1 and not 2?
[16:55] <NoelJB> Martyn, and I had a grub2 boot self-immolate yesterday during updates, forcing me to restore from backup and re-do the process.  not fun.
[16:55] <NoelJB> Andy80, yes
[16:55] <tj83> NoelJB, you can opt for ext3 but your right, i would like choice of crub1
[16:55] <tj83> grub1*
[16:55] <ActionParsnip> Andy80: ive had numerous USB devices, some automunt, some didnt. Its luck of the draw
[16:56] <yofel> NoelJB: I thought ext4 is the default now...
[16:56] <Andy80> ActionParsnip: maybe I wasn't clear..... ALL these USB key/disk works perfectly with Jaunty, but NOT with karmic! So it's a regression!
[16:56] <Andy80> it's not a matter of luck!
[16:56] <Andy80> ActionParsnip: n.b: not angry with you eh...
[16:56] <ActionParsnip> Andy80: the rest of the OS has come very far so except that, you see it as a regression
[16:57] <Andy80> ActionParsnip: the rest of the OS is more unstable than any other ubuntu version I had ever tried... nothing works
[16:57] <ActionParsnip> Andy80: could add the UIDs to fstab
[16:57]  * tj83 agrees with ActionParsnip well on our way to 10.04 LTS Lucid Lynx Woot!
[16:57] <ActionParsnip> Andy80: well karmic is still a beta so is not ready for the masses
[16:57] <Andy80> ActionParsnip: don't want to do it :P
[16:57] <NoelJB> Andy80, I have the opposite experience.  Karmic is much better than Jaunty for me, since Jaunty kernel traps regularly for me.
[16:58] <thiebaude> its still being developed
[16:58] <redcard> On the whole, outside this Empathy thing, I'm rather thrilled with the rest of the product.
[16:58] <Andy80> I don't want workarounds
[16:58] <ActionParsnip> Andy80: and it is still under heavy development, log a bug
[16:58] <Martyn> redcard :But empathy basically -is- pidgin
[16:58] <Andy80> I'd like this bug to be fixed
[16:58] <Martyn> redcard : It's pidgin + extensions, really
[16:58] <redcard> Martyn: No way.
[16:58] <redcard> Martyn: I have pidgin running on another machine here.  When empathy disconnects from AIM 15 times, and Pidgin 1.. they're not the same thing
[16:58] <Andy80> ok... I'll fill one hundred of bugs....
[16:58] <NoelJB> yofel, ext4 is the default, but at least you have an option to format otherwise :-)
[16:58] <ActionParsnip> redcard: i compiled carrier, its a lot friendlier :)
[16:59] <yofel> Andy80: report a bug and nominate it for karmic
[16:59] <mac_v> !schedule
[16:59] <ActionParsnip> Andy80: thats why people should use the beta/alpha, to log bugs and fix stuff
[16:59] <yofel> NoelJB: you still have grub1 in the karmic repository if you don't like it...
[17:00] <penguin42> Andy80: I'm not sure if it will help, but you might want to run devkit-disks --monitor-detail while you plug in one of the disks and see if it helps
[17:00] <NoelJB> ActionParsnip, +1.  that's why I have multiple OS partitions, and start working with the next release cycle as soon as it is available.
[17:00] <penguin42> Andy80: Well, gives you some info
[17:00] <ActionParsnip> yofel: for a system using single bot, grub2 is pretty OTT
[17:00] <ActionParsnip> s/bot/boot
[17:00] <yofel> ActionParsnip: if that were true, why aren't we all running lilo?
[17:01] <NoelJB> yofel, yes, but the problem is booting in the first place. I would have to modify my master GRUB partition to do something other than configfile.  I would probably have to configure it to chainload.
[17:01] <Andy80> penguin42: wanna read the output?
[17:01] <ActionParsnip> yofel: its in the repos so you CAN
[17:01]  * tj83 dislikes lilo 
[17:01] <penguin42> Andy80: No, I'm no expert on it - but I'd include it in the bug report
[17:01] <yofel> ActionParsnip: yes, but we still need an option that works best for most people
[17:02] <NoelJB> yofel, sda1 == GRUB, sda5-9 == Fedora, Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty, Karmic.  First boots the menu on GRUB, and then the local GRUB for the selected partition.
[17:02] <yofel> ActionParsnip: I also think that grub2 isn't quite ready for prime time yet, but we still have a month before us
[17:02] <penguin42> Andy80: I suspect it would be best to (if you can) see if there is any commonality between the ones that don't work/do work
[17:02] <Dr_Willis> lets go back to LILO! :)
[17:02] <Dr_Willis> Not....
[17:02] <thiebaude> haha
[17:02] <NoelJB> Dr_Willis, LOL, oh please no.  :-)
[17:02] <Andy80> penguin42: I'll reboot my system for the moment :P
[17:02] <Volkodav> yeah it looks like the worst beta to me I ever tried
[17:02] <Andy80> see ya later
[17:02] <yofel> NoelJB: wow, cool setup ^^, I use VMs for those *g*
[17:02]  * penguin42 toggles boot code in on toggle switches
[17:03] <NoelJB> yofel, eventually, I want to replace GRUB1 with GRUB2 everywhere.  First I need to get there :-)
[17:03] <Volkodav> no sound
[17:03] <NoelJB> yofel, I use VMs, too.  But I also want to work with real hardware.  :-)
[17:03] <Volkodav> even webcam is not recognised which is uvcvideo cam
[17:03] <yofel> true
[17:03] <ActionParsnip> LILO uses BSD license according to wikipedia
[17:03] <ActionParsnip> grub is gpl
[17:03] <thiebaude> am I able to get grub2 i upgraded from 9.04?
[17:03] <NoelJB> yofel, for example, I have a kubuntu VM for testing that, and a Ubuntu 64 bit VM as my build system.  So I do all of my package builds in a VM.
[17:04] <ActionParsnip> thiebaude: install it like you would grub
[17:04] <Dr_Willis> Grub2 tip to rember.. Just like the LILO days.. you MUST rerun update-grub after altering your grub configs...
[17:04] <thiebaude> ActionParsnip, from synaptic?
[17:04] <Dr_Willis> !grub2
[17:04] <Volkodav> it boots in init3 via legacy grub
[17:04] <yofel> NoelJB: really? I just use my real system (I could use a i386 vm though...)
[17:04] <ActionParsnip> Dr_Willis: not if you are hacking --no-floppy out of the grub.conf file after some update adds it (annoying)
[17:05] <NoelJB> yofel, I prefer not to pollute my normal environment with tons of build packages.  Let's me keep a cleaner environment.
[17:05] <yofel> that might be a good point to test vm-builder again *g*
[17:05] <NoelJB> yofel, I use VMware, but yeah.  :-)
[17:05] <Volkodav> I had grub 2 installed in sdb where the legacy grub from jaunty was at install but legacy grub still shows up
[17:06] <yofel> NoelJB: I like kvm best, it's pretty lightweight, fast, but indeed has less features as VMware
[17:06] <bobertdos> !grub2
[17:06] <Volkodav> I added karmic to legacy but it boots in init3 and I have to startx to get X
[17:06] <Volkodav> How do I reinstall grub2 from liveCD
[17:07] <thiebaude> Volkodav, i might just wait on grub2
[17:07] <Dr_Willis> I think that wiki page mentioned above tells you Volkodav
[17:08] <Volkodav> hmm well I am ok with startx system still boots but some many bugs though
[17:08] <NoelJB> yes, but it doesn't tell you what to do when GRUB2 just displays messages about invalid environments entries, won't display a menu, and won't let you boot anymore.
[17:08] <penguin42> Volkodav: Someone was suggesting doing initctl list  when that happens to see what state everything was in
[17:09] <arand> The one thing I dislike about grub is how editing upon boot has become rather complicated, before I used to be able to fiddle about and boot without a menu.lst, now, It's a lit of bits and bobs to keep track of...
[17:10] <Volkodav> This whole new grub2 thing - is it really worth it ? What are ther benefits if any?
[17:10] <NoelJB> arand, but it has more bells, whistles and features!  :-)
[17:10] <lubosz> hi
[17:10] <Volkodav> the old one worked fine and was relatively easy to use edit and config
[17:10] <tgpraveen> Volkodav: well they fixed a few things in the enginneering logic and made it easy to extend with plugins
[17:10] <NoelJB> Volkodav, there are benefits .. but ease of use is lacking ATM.
[17:10] <penguin42> Volkodav: It's more modular so works with efi boot and loads of other things where previously you would have to use something else for efi
[17:10] <lubosz> can i install a persistent karmic on a key drive, without booting the a iso?
[17:10] <lubosz> i dont have any optical drive
[17:10]  * thiebaude installed grub2 time to reboot
[17:11] <Dr_Willis> Volkodav:  read up at te grub homepage.. of course theres benifits.. or else we would all still be using LILO. :)
[17:11] <thiebaude> brb
[17:11] <Volkodav> efi so far sounds as the only benefit to me though
[17:11] <Dr_Willis> lubosz:   what os is on the machine now?
[17:11] <arand> lubosz: usb-creator?
[17:11] <Dr_Willis> lubosz:  you can use unetbootin, or usbcreator to make a bootable flash drive
[17:11] <lubosz> Dr_Willis: win7, osx, jaunty
[17:12] <lubosz> Dr_Willis: yes, but it will contain the live cd afaik, not a persistent os
[17:12] <Dr_Willis> lubosz:  follow the directions at pendrivelinux to make a persistant save file on it
[17:12] <lubosz> i usually just run the ubuntu installer
[17:12] <Dr_Willis> unetbootin does not make a persistant save..  usb-creator or the directions at pendrivelinux can
[17:12] <lubosz> k
[17:12] <Dr_Willis> of course for just an installer flash drive.. you dont really need a persistant save
[17:12] <wekt> What does CouchDB beamer process bring?  I have uninstalled the CPU hungry thing and not noticed loss of functionality.
[17:12] <penguin42> Dr_Willis: Can you actually just partition and do an install on the flash drive?
[17:12] <lubosz> usb-creator makes fat32 partitions, doesnt it?
[17:13] <ajs`> hey has anyone been having wierd ethernet network issues since they upgraded?
[17:13] <arand> But yea, I'm looking for an answer for how to be able to do a _standard_ install to a USB as well, not using any of the liveusb tools... How  can I install karmic from within jaunty?
[17:13] <lubosz> this was the reason i installed jaunty with the real installer on the usb drive, to get ext4
[17:13] <Dr_Willis> penguin42:  you could... but that can cause issues.
[17:13] <lubosz> and much faster boot
[17:13] <shadeslayer> hey with the new upstart mechanism,is there a reduction in boot time? (as compared to alpha 5)
[17:13] <yofel> !details | ajs`
[17:13] <penguin42> ajs`: I had problems where it picked up an ancient /etc/network/interfaces file and switched what it was doing by default
[17:13] <Dr_Willis> Hmm.. hers a neaat way to do network isntalls i saw.. http://www.howtoforge.com/boot-linux-over-http-with-netboot.me
[17:14] <NoelJB> shadeslayer, yes, there should be some.  You might not notice it.  A YMMV item.
[17:14] <ajs`> my network connections seem to lag when first connecting
[17:14] <ajs`> but once data starts transmitting, the speed is fine
[17:14] <arand> Dr_Willis: thing is I don't want to boot the usb stick at all, I want to blast in karmic from a running jaunty...
[17:15] <wekt> wow.  Dr_Willis, you're amazing.  your always here & active.
[17:15] <shadeslayer> NoelJB: oh thanks mate
[17:16] <ActionParsnip> !botsnack | Dr_Willis
[17:16] <NoelJB> arand, it is old, but does  https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/installation-guide/i386/linux-upgrade.html help?
[17:16] <ajs`> also, ive noticed when i do a ping, the xmit time listed is normal (53ms or so) but it takes 2-5 seconds per ping to list
[17:16] <ajs`> and no dropped packets
[17:16] <Dr_Willis> arand:  then you want to look in to 'debootstrap'
[17:16] <vigo> Hello, someone was looking for a Docking app yesterday, there is one in the Software Center and Synaptic and other places now.
[17:16] <Dr_Willis> wekt:  i just had 3 donuts.. :)
[17:16] <tj83> anyone else notice on dual mon, systems the xsplash is displayed on one of two screens? previously they had set to center on combined screen desktop. I was able to modify the /usr/shar/xplash images to achieve logo splash on both screens. anyone have ideas how to achieve this now?
[17:16] <BUGabundo> http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2009/10/02/the-real-firefox/ ;)
[17:17] <penguin42> tj83: Yeh I think I saw that on this mornings boot
[17:17] <Dr_Willis> tj83:  im glad its on one screen and not streatched across both. :) you said youy had it on both like a clone?
[17:17] <penguin42> tj83: I guess it's difficult when the two aren't the same res/size
[17:18] <NoelJB> tj83, I believe that was changed/fixed recently to work as it does now.
[17:18] <tj83> Dr_Willis, i just took the res of each mon, combined to get 3360x1050 create new transparent image with gimp, paste the original images into the new, save as old file name, and then you have on both screens. but this is not the case now
[17:18] <mac_v> BUGabundo: why did you sheer the poor dog ;p
[17:19] <tj83> penguin42, yes i suppose it would be
[17:19]  * BUGabundo points finger to cwillu_
[17:19] <Dr_Willis> tj83:  personally i just remove xsplash. :) but glad you had fun...
[17:19] <vigo> NoelJB: Is it using the iBus path or the SCIM?
[17:19] <arand> Dr_Willis: I tried that, but following https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromLinux#Without%20CD I ended up with something that had no apt-get installed, just a mess really...
[17:19] <NoelJB> vigo, is WHAT using ibus?
[17:20] <vigo> NoelJB: It is a widget for docking stuff, I think, looks very configurable.
[17:20] <thiebaude> i tried to install grub2 but it failed
[17:20] <SirBob1701> Hey guys what nvidia driver do you recommend 180 or 185?  I'm in the root cli trying to figure out because I can't login to gnome...
[17:21] <thiebaude> SirBob1701: i use 185
[17:21] <tj83> using 185 here
[17:21] <ikonia> SirBob1701: it depends which version best supports your card
[17:21] <duffydack> ok, after talking to dtchen lastnight and him telling me my sound issue will never be fixed, he gave me info about a patch for pulseaudio, how do I apply this patch? I did apt-get source pulseaudio and there is a patch called 0090-use-volume-ignore-for-analog-output.patch
[17:21] <SirBob1701> thnks
[17:21] <tj83> hi ikonia long time no see
[17:21] <ikonia> hello there
[17:21] <NoelJB> SirBob1701, 185.16
[17:22] <NoelJB> duffydack, what issue will "never" be fixed?
[17:23] <duffydack> NoelJB, (I should have this in a text file to copy to clipboard) using amplified output... its too loud and also messes up more than 1 channel..
[17:24] <duffydack> I just need to know how to apply the patch
[17:24] <soc> hi
[17:24] <NoelJB> vigo, there are a bunch of docks.  I have no idea which one you're taking about.
[17:24] <soc> i think i just found a bug which could be critical, could anyone look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hplip/+bug/402959
[17:25] <soc> broken dependencies on the live cd
[17:25] <NoelJB> duffydack, I'd have to look at the pulseaudio source package.  do you see a patches/ directory under debian/ ?
[17:25] <yofel> NoelJB: there isn't one
[17:25] <soc> additional libraries needed for fixing that bug: ~7mb
[17:25] <vigo> NoelJB: My hands are still messed up, let me try and find that information for clarity.
[17:25] <duffydack> NoelJB, yes thats where the patch is.
[17:25] <yofel> duffydack: can you pastebin the patch please?
[17:25] <soc> free space on the cd: ~4mb
[17:25] <NoelJB> yofel, why do you say there isn't when duffydack says there is?
[17:25] <penguin42> soc: bzip --99999
[17:26] <penguin42> :-)
[17:26] <duffydack> http://pastebin.com/dda368b7
[17:26] <yofel> NoelJB: my fault, there is one -.-
[17:27] <NoelJB> duffydack, THAT?  That looks like a patch to a config file!   find it in your system, and just make the change locally.  no need to build.
[17:27] <Amaranth> soc: is that compressed or uncompressed size?
[17:28] <Lazy> /usr/share/pulseaudio/alsa-mixer/paths/analog-output.conf.common
[17:29] <Dr_Willis> heres a benifit of grub2 - it can use png or tga for its splash image. :)
[17:29] <Dr_Willis> http://www.howtoforge.com/how-to-add-a-splash-image-to-grub-2-on-ubuntu-9.04
[17:29] <NoelJB> Dr_Willis, Oooo Ahhhh :-p
[17:29] <duffydack> NoelJB, so I find analog-output.conf.common and add what ? everything in this "patch" file?
[17:29] <Ab3L> penguin42, Ian_Corne, do you know how to fill up a bug report for the ati open driver?
[17:29] <Amaranth> soc: confirmed and bumped to medium
[17:29] <volkodav> Hmm - what happened is that it will not overwrite the legacy grub - but i put it on hda and it worked
[17:29] <volkodav> weird
[17:29] <Dr_Willis> odd that they use the default splas of some oddly named landscapw instead of somting nice like /usr/shre/images/grub/grubsplash.png
[17:29]  * Amaranth only does high for compiz stuff and massively duplicated crash bugs
[17:30] <penguin42> Ab3L: As I said before, I suggest ubuntu_bug on xserver-xorg-video-radeon
[17:30] <volkodav> there is no graphics on though
[17:30] <Lazy> duffydack: change line "volume = merge" to "volume = ignore"
[17:30] <penguin42> Ab3L: Or xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd if you have one of the hd cards ?
[17:30] <Dr_Willis> now to test ot. :)
[17:30] <NoelJB> duffydack, according to that patch?  find the file that lazy showed you, find the volume setting, and change it to ignore as shown in the patch
[17:30] <volkodav> same old black and white shit
[17:31] <duffydack> thanks (never had to apply a patch before :) )
[17:32] <soc> Amaranth: thanks
[17:32] <NerveClasp> Hi, there is something wrong with my network manager.. I can't apply changes to my wifi adhoc profile. anybody knows what can be wrong?
[17:32] <yofel> NerveClasp: if you use gnome then yes, nm-applet can't be configured at the moment
[17:32] <NerveClasp> I can't share my lan internet through wireles for other computers
[17:32] <duffydack> Do I have to restart pulse?
[17:33] <NerveClasp> yes, I use gnome
[17:33] <NerveClasp> what can be done?
[17:33] <akgraner> hey BUGabundo ping
[17:33] <yofel> NerveClasp: wait for it to be fixed or edit your gconf profile by hand
[17:33] <BUGabundo> akgraner: pong
[17:33] <BUGabundo> ***
[17:34] <BUGabundo> hi my lovely friend!
[17:34] <BUGabundo> besides mark mention of you
[17:34] <akgraner> BUGabundo, got a sec can I PM you?
[17:34] <BUGabundo> how have the Ubuntu community been threatign you ?
[17:34] <BUGabundo> of course akgraner
[17:34] <BUGabundo> anytime
[17:34] <BUGabundo> no need to ask
[17:34] <akgraner> BUGabundo, awesome as always... I love the community!!!!
[17:34] <BUGabundo> :)
[17:35] <NerveClasp> yofel: can you tell the exact path to gconf? if gconf is a file=)
[17:36] <yofel> NerveClasp: use gconf-editor , gconf is a database like the windows registry
[17:37] <NerveClasp> I thought so=) thanks))) I'm just not that good in linux for now.. I use it just 9 months or so... I just forgot what gconf is=)
[17:38] <vigo> NoelJB: Disregard anything I stated about iBus, it was the wrong thing.
[17:39] <ripps> Is theier a cli gconf browser, much like gconf-editor?
[17:39] <NerveClasp> yofel: sorry again, but in which section to search and what to configure the wlan profile?
[17:39] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, install gconf-editor.  you'll be happier.
[17:39] <NerveClasp> *how to configure=)
[17:39] <NerveClasp> I have it
[17:39] <yofel> ripps: not really, there is gconftool to edit it from the cli, but I know no ncurses interface
[17:40] <NoelJB> yofel, me, neither.  CLI or GUI but no ncurses.
[17:40] <ripps> thanks, just thought I'd ask
[17:40] <zorael> yofel: Regarding the monitor-won't-dpms question a while ago; are you running the Intel driver from the repos? (Just wondering if I should try downgrading mine, as I'm using the 2.9.0 version from xorg-edgers)
[17:40] <yofel> NerveClasp: I don't know really, I use kde and my gnome knowledge is limited
[17:41] <yofel> zorael: yes, the one from the repos
[17:41] <zorael> yofel: okay, thanks
[17:42] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, what was it you were looking to change?
[17:42] <NerveClasp> NoelJB: wlan ad-hoc profile parameters
[17:43] <NerveClasp> NoelJB: I need my lan conection to be shared through wlan to others
[17:43] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, what happens if you right click on the nm-applet, go to edit connections, go to wireless, select your ad hoc connection, and click edit?
[17:44] <NerveClasp> NoelJB: no parameters can be changed. I mean not "all", but those I need in ipv4 tab
[17:46] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, try using manual, and drop by #nm tomorrow.  asac and dcbw should be there.
[17:46] <NerveClasp> NoelJB: "method: together with other computers" cannot be changed into "automatic DHCP" or "manual"
[17:46] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, I'm not sure why selecting that last entry disables the fields.  I'd have to check the code.
[17:46] <NerveClasp> I tryed manual, but it's the same..
[17:47] <NerveClasp> NoelJB: what do you mean "drop by #nm tomorrow.  asac and dcbw should be there."
[17:47] <NerveClasp> *tried
[17:47] <NoelJB>  issue /join #nm  --- that's the network managers IRC channel
[17:47] <NerveClasp> oh, I see
[17:47] <NerveClasp> thnks
[17:48] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, I'd have to see what they do internally when that sharing mode is selected.  Haven't played with it.
[17:48] <NerveClasp> NoelJB, it' empty=(
[17:49] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, then you typed something wrong  :-)
[17:49] <yofel> NoelJB: I heard that nm-applet doesn't save any config changes right now
[17:50] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, "/join #nm" without the quotes.  or just the "#nm" channel if you're using a GUI
[17:50] <NoelJB> yofel, seems to for me, but if not, easy enough to load up that file.
[17:51] <NerveClasp> NoelJB, in 9.04 I had no problems with rooting my lan internet via wlan. my roommate could use my net. wait, I could do that even earlier in 9.10 till last (or prelast) upgrade
[17:51] <yofel> NerveClasp: yes, it was broken recently
[17:51] <NerveClasp> bummer...
[17:52] <NerveClasp> yofel, can I somehow install previous version? or it will have conflicts with other packages?
[17:53] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, which version do you have?  I'm installed from the NM PPA, myself.
[17:53] <NerveClasp> wait
[17:53] <robin0800> NerveClasp: it was updated yesterday 0.7.996
[17:54] <NerveClasp> yeap, it's 0.7.996
[17:54] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, I work from https://launchpad.net/~network-manager/+archive/trunk/+packages
[17:54] <NoelJB> or source,
[17:54] <yofel> robin0800: where did you get that version from? I have 0.8~a~git.20090923t220421.1ac8ffd-0ubuntu4
[17:54] <NoelJB> although right now it appears that the builds are broken again <<sigh>>
[17:55] <NerveClasp> NoelJB, can I install the one from 9.04?
[17:55] <NoelJB> for the applet?  I have 0.8~a~git.20091002t194214.8515a07-0ubuntu1~nmt1
[17:55] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, NO!  :-)
[17:55] <NerveClasp> NoelJB and what wersion was that if anybody knows?
[17:56] <NerveClasp> drats...
[17:56] <Ab3L> penguin42: where have i to fill the bug report? i am looking for ubuntu_bug as you said, but i am not able to find out where i have to write...
[17:56] <yofel> Ab3L: it's ubuntu-bug, not ubuntu_bug
[17:56] <penguin42> Ab3L: It's a command - ubuntu-bug
[17:57] <Ab3L> in the shell terminal?
[17:57] <NerveClasp> NoelJB, can I do SOMETHING with it? I'm in desperation:-@
[17:57] <penguin42> Ab3L: Yes
[17:57] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, You CAN install the new applet, I believe.  Only the network manager build is broken for x64
[17:58] <NoelJB> FWIW, upstream source control is at http://cgit.freedesktop.org/NetworkManager/NetworkManager/log/ in case you want to see what's been done lately.
[17:59] <NerveClasp> NoelJB, I have x32 arch... stupid q: so I have to uninstall current nm and install some other?
[17:59] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, no.  just add the PPA, run apt-get update and apt-get upgrade.
[18:00] <NerveClasp> NoelJB, thanks.. I'll try it now
[18:00] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, you might want to also grab the ppa-purge tool, so that you can back out ppa stuff in the future.
[18:00] <Jeruvy> I tried to install libdvdcss2, but it states its not available, anyone know what if any replaces it?
[18:01] <NoelJB> unfortunately, ppa-purge is still captive to x-edgers, so I add that PPA, install ppa-purge, and remove the ppa (https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa)
[18:01] <janaka> nick
[18:02] <Goktan> selam
[18:02] <yofel> !medibuntu | Jeruvy
[18:12] <Jeruvy> yofel: is there a link to specific karmic packages?  It seems quite flaky atm I can't get the packages link to load
[18:12] <yofel> Jeruvy: try it several times, It's unstable here too :(
[18:12] <mikejet> Is Flash & Firefox going to be much better on 64-bit in 9.10 ?
[18:13] <welcome> mikejet : Didn't notice anything of that sort
[18:13] <mikejet> it was very flakey in 9.4, and I had to go back to 32-bit.
[18:13] <yofel> mikejet: dunno, have you tried the 64bit flash alpha version from adobe yet? It's more stable for me than the official 32bit one
[18:14] <NoelJB> yofel, LOL That's like saying "have you tried concrete? its much more stable than quicksand for me."  ;-)
[18:14] <xguru> anyone get the update manager issue fixeD?  it doesn't ask for a password and bombs out during trying to update?
[18:14] <Martyn> xguru : That's not an issue for me
[18:14] <yofel> NoelJB: rofl, but it's still the truth :P
[18:14] <Martyn> xguru : I'm running 32bit, did a clean install of beta ~6 hours ago
[18:15] <mikejet> yofel : my plan is to try 64-bit again with the new release in a few weeks.  ... unless lots of others have problems too.  there is just too many packages to figure out how or what to install.
[18:15] <xguru> yea same here, only i installed KDE on top off ubuntu
[18:15] <mikejet>   all the goofy names don't help.
[18:15] <Martyn> xguru : Shoudn't matter.
[18:15] <Jeruvy> mikejet: I concur the alpha from adobe directly is very nice, the packages one is choppy.
[18:15] <Martyn> xguru : Although I can test that right now.  Want me to try installing 32bit kbuntu beta?
[18:16] <Martyn> Jeruvy : You mean the one from medibuntu repositories?
[18:16] <xguru> Martyn: let me see what apt-get does
[18:17] <Jeruvy> Martyn: The one from the regular repo's, I'm not sure if its the same as medibuntu, I can't see anything since it won't load atm :)
[18:18] <Martyn> it's not
[18:18] <Martyn> the medibuntu one is up to date
[18:18] <Jeruvy> anyone have a working link?
[18:19] <Martyn> and I reccomend that anyone using media plugins, even with 9.10/beta, add the medibuntu repository
[18:21] <xguru> Martyn: works threw the terminal.  Now i will have to wait till more updates come out to see if it fixed the update manager
[18:22] <soc> hi
[18:22] <soc> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/442408
[18:22] <soc> could someone verify that?
[18:22] <Martyn> I can
[18:22] <soc> that would free up ~3mb of space on the live cd
[18:22] <Martyn> but I'd be surprised if the didn't work .. there hasn't been a huge change to gdm
[18:23] <soc> Martyn: the whole gdm is new?!
[18:23] <Martyn> soc : Sure, but all that means is that the themes need to be refactored to use the new xml theme format
[18:23] <Martyn> the actual themes probably will still work, with modification
[18:23] <soc> the old one is still in the repo, called "gdm-2.20"
[18:24] <soc> Martyn: afaik there is no theming support atm
[18:24] <soc> certainly not for karmic
[18:24] <welcome> How is beta
[18:24] <Martyn> soc : OH!  Yeah, good point.
[18:25] <NoelJB> Martyn, +1  medibuntu is one of the first things I add to a clean install.
[18:25] <yofel> welcome: depending on you, from very good to unusable
[18:25] <soc> look at gdmsetup, nothing to change the theme
[18:25] <Martyn> Yeah, looking now
[18:25] <soc> at least change the package descriptions of these packages so they mention gdm-2.20
[18:25] <Martyn> I think you have a good point
[18:25] <soc> or make them depend on gdm-2.20
[18:25] <Martyn> nod
 : Thanks, I'll definitely try that then.
[18:25] <welcome> yofel : lol , how about the artwork , heard many people say it sucks
[18:26] <soc> ok, just checked, the depend on gdm, this is definately wrong
[18:26] <GodfatherofEire> Anybody else havin problems with Static IP's on Karmic or might it just be that I've only tested it on a live USB?
[18:26] <yofel> welcome: the kubuntu artwork is great, the gnome one is a bit odd though
[18:26] <soc> make them at least  depend on gdm-2.20
[18:26] <Martyn> and they definitely do not work with gdm current
[18:26] <soc> ok, have to go
[18:26] <soc> bye
[18:26] <soc> i'll report later again
[18:27] <DanaG> weird... I wiped and restored from backup, and I found out that my backup needs to have /dev and /sys and /proc  .... but now after creating them, I get "/dev/null: no such file or directory" on boot.
[18:27] <yofel> DanaG: huh? /dev is a tmpfs so a backup doesn't really make sense
[18:28] <NoelJB> DanaG, /dev/null: no such file or directory is already reported.  let me get you the bug
[18:28] <DanaG> yeah, I know... that's why I had it excluded.
[18:28] <Martyn> yofel : you need an entry (directory) for the tmpfs to mount on
[18:28] <DanaG> Yeah, I had to recreate those dirs (empty).
[18:28] <penguin42> DanaG: /dev tmpfs I think gets created by udev or hal during boot; /sys and /proc aren't real they're special - you just need empty directories there
[18:28] <yofel> Martyn: ah, that makes sense ^^
[18:29] <DanaG> ah, dev is not the same as sys and proc?
[18:29] <NoelJB> DanaG, bug 435630
[18:29] <penguin42> DanaG: Not these days
[18:29] <DanaG> weird, for me, it doesn't then become bootable.  It just stops.
[18:29] <NoelJB> DanaG, for me it is just a harmless message.
[18:29] <GodfatherofEire> Only reason I'm askin in here is cause I dont want to file a bug if its already there.
[18:30] <yofel> GodfatherofEire: if you use gnome network manager then there is a configuration issue right now, you could aks in #nm for more info
[18:30] <TDJACR> I tried to upgrade and got http://bayimg.com/haEfNAAcE
[18:30] <DanaG> so if I look at a non-booted karmic root.... dev won't be there, even empty?
[18:30] <Zvezdichko> Hey, do you know who are reffered as euroidiots?
[18:30] <u-foka> Hy! Anyone can help my get the early boot splash working? I have an nvidia card, the livecd boots ok, but after the installation, there is some textual booting before xsplash loads
[18:30] <GodfatherofEire> yofel yeah, that was what I was usin
[18:31] <GodfatherofEire> I'll just wait a while before downloadin Karmic, let em work out the kinks first
[18:31] <NoelJB> GodfatherofEire, there were some fixes recently related to that, but I don't know what got into the beta.  I run from the NM development PPA.
[18:31] <Martyn>  /ignore Zvezdichko
[18:31] <mac_v> u-foka: known issue , file a bug with the list of messages displayed
[18:31] <u-foka> mac_v, thx
[18:32] <NoelJB> mac_v, like bug 435630 ?
[18:32] <GodfatherofEire> NoelJB, ah, well, thanks for the info
[18:32] <u-foka> I'l check it
[18:32] <Zvezdichko> Martyn: you probably know the answer : Lewcki Sofia
[18:33] <mac_v> NoelJB: yup
[18:33] <yofel> !ot | Zvezdichko
[18:33] <ryguy> hey guys
[18:33] <mac_v> !hi | ryguy:
[18:33] <ryguy> I'm trying to install 9.10 beta and when the screen comes up, I select "Install Ubuntu" as opposed to "Try Ubuntu without changing your computer" and The installation takes awhile then it goes into Live anyways. I then open up the "Install 9.10" Icon on the Live desktop andit seems to work, but when it gets to the "Install Ubuntu" phase after I enter all my info, the install program just closes =/ Is there anyway to install it without Liv
[18:33] <ryguy> e running?
[18:33] <tomasv> I just dist-upgraded to Karmic, rebooted, ... no sound anymore, googled, found advice to try another kernel, wanted to do so... but to my surprise grub had been replaced by grub2... so no menu.lst to edit... switching to a different bootloader without asking for confirmation is imho EVIL
[18:34] <TDJACR> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/83954 is a bug, not a question.
[18:34] <tomasv> dont know which package to file a bug: grub(2), apt, update-notifier, ...
[18:34] <TDJACR> Whoops, bold :/
[18:34] <u-foka> NoelJB, no it's not my bug :D i have no error messages, only normal textual boot where the white ubuntu logo should takes place, after a little time xsplash loads and works as expected
[18:34] <Martyn> tomsku : 9.10's bootloader -is- grub2.  There is an announcement on that issue on the main page
[18:34] <Martyn> !grub2
[18:35] <yofel> Martyn: but a dist-upgrade shouldn't change the installed one, or am I wrong?
[18:35] <Martyn> tomsku : It's always important to read the release notes before installing/upgrading :)
[18:35] <NoelJB> Martyn, but tomasv says that it UPGRADED and did it.  I thought that an upgrade left grub1 in place.  did that change in the beta?
[18:35] <Martyn> yofel : Dist-upgrade will replace it now
[18:35] <tomasv> still aconfirmation would be nice...
[18:35] <Martyn> NoelJB : Yep.
[18:36] <Martyn> I just had a peek at the package, and the behavior has changed
[18:36] <yofel> Martyn: o.O... why that? It was a pretty good way if you wanted to keep grub1
[18:36] <DanaG> re-asking:  If I look at a non-booted karmic root.... dev won't be there, even empty?
[18:36] <Martyn> yofel : To be sure that -everyone- running beta is on the same system
[18:36] <Martyn> yofel : It does make sense
[18:36] <NoelJB> Martyn, oiy ... <<sigh>> FORCING grub2 seems such a poor idea, and recipe for broken boots.
[18:36] <tomasv> replacing a boot loader behind the scenes isn't very polite...
[18:36] <ryguy> I'm trying to install 9.10 beta and when the screen comes up, I select "Install Ubuntu" as opposed to "Try Ubuntu without changing your computer" and The installation takes awhile then it goes into Live anyways. I then open up the "Install 9.10" Icon on the Live desktop andit seems to work, but when it gets to the "Install Ubuntu" phase after I enter all my info, the install program just closes =/ Is there anyway to install it without Liv
[18:36] <ryguy> e running?
[18:36] <NoelJB> Martyn, will that be reverted for the RC and release?
[18:37]  * Martyn shrugs, that's the way the canonical crew decided to go
[18:37]  * yofel has still the same opinion as tomasv
[18:37] <Martyn> NoelJB : AFIK, no
[18:37] <Martyn> I think 9.10's offical bootloader is now grub2
[18:37] <Martyn> and upgrading to it, requires the upgrade
[18:37] <Martyn> To prevent "mixed" systems
[18:38] <tomasv> but anyway... next issue: grub2 only shows my old kernel in the menu
[18:38] <yofel> Martyn: an if you use grub1 to dual boot an older ubuntu version? You'll just break it?
[18:38] <NoelJB> Martyn, I hope that doesn't invoke the law of unintended consequences and slow Karmic adoption because people don't want grub 1
[18:38] <larsemil> i have som problems getting direct rendering for my intel video card
[18:38] <NoelJB> er, grub2
[18:38] <larsemil> larsemil@mamin:~$ glxinfo | grep render
[18:38] <larsemil> direct rendering: Yes
[18:38] <larsemil> OpenGL renderer string: Software Rasterizer
[18:38] <Martyn> Otherwise two completely different kernel upgrade package scripts will have to be maintained, and other grub-config-update critical packages will fail in the final
[18:39] <tomasv> i'm a seasoned linux user, so I got round it, but now I have to manually go into the grub shell on every boot to change the kernel version
[18:39] <tomasv> not very pleasant
[18:39] <ryguy> can anyone help me?
[18:39] <NoelJB> Martyn, perhaps, but unless GRUB2 is the most important package in Karmic, it means that if people stay away from Karmic because of GRUB2, we won't get the testing coverage we want for Lucid.
[18:40] <yofel> tomasv: does 'update-grub' list you new kernel and does the enty in /boot/grub/grub.cfg get generated?
[18:41] <Martyn> NoelJB : If grub2 is the thing that keeps people away ( and it's =not= a huge issue for most poeple ) I'd be surprised
[18:41] <tomasv> yofel: Found kernel: /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-11-generic
[18:41] <Martyn> NoelJB : This was really, REALLY hashed over at the last UDS
[18:41] <tomasv> so yes... but apparently update-grub didn't run correctly on upgrade
[18:41] <NoelJB> Martyn, I'm sure ...
[18:42] <Martyn> NoelJB : So it shouldn't be a surprise
[18:42] <Martyn> We'll see.
[18:42] <NoelJB> Martyn, But the population who attends the UDS is what fraction of what fraction of what fraction of 1% of the Ubuntu community?
[18:42] <larsemil> noone else using intel driver in karmic?
[18:42] <Martyn> NoelJB : The ones that back, and perform most of the work?
[18:42] <Martyn> NoelJB : No insult intended, but that's what happens.
[18:42] <yofel> Martyn: you can't freely change the description and order for other os'es than karmic in grub2 right now, so my dual-boot pc is still running grub1 and won't see grub2 for quite a while
[18:43] <Martyn> yofel : Yeah, that was a BIG argument at the last UDS
[18:43] <NoelJB> Martyn, and that would be fine of Ubuntu was intended just for them, but when you are targeting a large population of users who are not at UDS (you know, bug #1), you had better adopt a different approach to community decisions than face to face meetings at UDS.
[18:43] <Martyn> yofel: It's a big deal for people who run ubuntu-server for virtualization too
[18:44] <yofel> Martyn: why don't at least include an option in ubiquity to keep grub1 (at least include it in the final)
[18:44] <NoelJB> Martyn, you might not be aware, but I'm VP of the Apache Incubator, and a long time ASF Member.  I do know a little bit about community building.  :-)
[18:44] <Martyn> yofel : mostly due to dealing with kernel upgrades and such
[18:44] <wekt> have others here witnessed lagging in X Windows after upgrading koala in the past 5 days?
[18:44] <Martyn> NoelJB : I know who you are.
[18:45] <tomasv> just a sec...
[18:45] <tomasv> sudo update-grub
[18:45] <penguin42> wekt: Not generally, but there's something with flash erm flashing a bit
[18:45] <tomasv> ...
[18:45] <tomasv> Updating /boot/grub/menu.lst ... done
[18:45] <tomasv> this doesn't seem correct now does it?
[18:45] <Amaranth> wekt: There is a problem with losing intel acceleration randomly
[18:45] <yofel> tomasv: ...
[18:45] <yofel> tomasv: are you SURE that you get grub2 on boot?
[18:45] <wekt> Amaranth, that would fit.  i'm on Intel Video
[18:45] <Martyn> NoelJB : Although using the 'do you know who I am' line is a bit lame :)  ( I'm the guy who designed and built the network and software infrastructure that runs /., freshmeat, and sourceforge... we're all rockstars here.)
[18:45] <Amaranth> wekt: The only answer for it so far is to reboot until it goes away, race condition in module loading
[18:46] <wekt> Amaranth, though it is all 2D that I'm doing.  no compiz.
[18:46] <Amaranth> wekt: Is compiz working?
[18:46]  * Martyn just assumes that everyone who is involved in the beta is a rockstar.  Makes it easer to assume everyone is competent and awesome.
[18:46] <Amaranth> wekt: Can you turn compiz on? If not we've found the problem.
[18:46] <NoelJB> Martyn, wasn't playing the rockstar card.  just establishing that I have *some* basis for understanding open source projects.  LOL
[18:46] <Martyn> heh.
[18:47]  * Amaranth is a rockstar
[18:47] <Martyn> But yeah, I don't disagree with you.  Perhaps you and I can work on a package to add to the PPA to create a grub1 based install?
[18:47] <NoelJB> Amaranth, more like a video star :-)
[18:47] <Amaranth> Video killed the radio star?
[18:47] <tomasv> yofel: the menu seemed kinda strange, so I suppose so, let's reboot and make sure
[18:47] <yofel> tomasv: iirc it should be displayed on top of the screen
[18:47] <NoelJB> Amaranth, <<sigh>> Let's just hope that Gnome 3 doesn't turn you into a radio star.  :-(
[18:47] <slacker_nl> lol
[18:48] <NoelJB> Martyn, was that (grub1) directed at me?
[18:48] <tomasv> back in a sec...
[18:48] <Martyn> NoelJB : It is indeed.
[18:48] <Martyn> NoelJB : I'm sure we could put a modified PPA together pretty quickly.
[18:48] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Either gnome-shell is going to fail or compiz is going to not be usable with GNOME anymore, there is no third option :/
[18:48] <Martyn> cd build with grub1 install and compatibe with the beta.
[18:48] <Amaranth> Martyn: Why do you want grub 1 so badly?
[18:49] <Martyn> to let people like tomasv, you, I, etc install it if they need it
[18:49] <Martyn> Amaranth : I don't.  However, I do keep hearing that people want it .. so, if that's the case, why not make an alternate-install
[18:49] <yofel> Amaranth: grub2 is great, but there still are things that grub1 does much better
[18:49] <NoelJB> Martyn, that would be OK, although I do want to move to GRUB2 at some point for the boot config.
[18:49] <Martyn> one that allows a choice of grub2 and grub1
[18:49] <wekt> Amaranth,  I don't know how to start with compiz.  I'm using netbook remix & have tried with metacity and XFCE, but don't see a compiz option in GDM although compiz is installed.
[18:49] <wekt> Amaranth, is more like  a cereal, if i recall.
[18:49] <Amaranth> Martyn: But _why_ do they want it?
[18:50] <NoelJB> Martyn, at the moment, I don't know if anyone other than cj REALLY knows grub2 well enough.
[18:50] <TDJACR> grub1 and pidgin and a few other things should still be options
[18:50] <yofel> Amaranth: read the backlog from a few minutes ago ;)
[18:50] <Martyn> Amaranth : Multiboot, Multi-OS install is one valid reason.   We haven't yet really brought the tools to the same level of support as we have for grub1 for that.
[18:50] <TDJACR> And the installer should let you pick a theme
[18:50] <Amaranth> Read? Me?
[18:50] <Amaranth> TDJACR: hahahahahaha
[18:50] <TDJACR> Amaranth: What?
[18:50] <yofel> Amaranth: ^^
[18:51]  * Jeruvy grabs a sledgehammer and starts hitting packages.medibuntu.org
[18:51] <Amaranth> TDJACR: We're trying to remove questions from the installer, not add more
[18:51]  * TDJACR did not know that.
[18:51] <yofel> Amaranth: whe do have an advanced tab at the end...
[18:51] <TDJACR> Yeah...
[18:51] <Amaranth> yofel: Sadly, yes.
[18:52] <TDJACR> Maybe a "Would you like to see other personalization options" (Yes/No)
[18:52] <Amaranth> Theme changing in the installer isn't going to happen though
[18:52] <TDJACR> The app store is a failed concept
[18:52] <NoelJB> Amaranth, in my case, because I have sda1 (GRUB boot partition with master menu), sda[5-9] with Fedora, Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty and Karmic all having their own GRUB.  The master GRUB has a lot of entries of the form configfile (hd0,X)/boot/grub/menu.lst
[18:52] <Amaranth> Just change it after the install if you don't like it
[18:52] <TDJACR> Amaranth: I understand that bit.
[18:52] <TDJACR> Amaranth: But Pidgin and Grub1 should still be present.
[18:52] <webbb821> did anyone els get a big 174 app upgrade last night
[18:52] <Amaranth> TDJACR: pidgin in the installer is also not going to happen
[18:52] <Amaranth> webbb821: Yeah the queue was cleared after the beta
[18:52] <TDJACR> Amaranth: I know.
[18:53] <slacker_nl> TDJACR: pidgin and grub are available in the repo's
[18:53] <Amaranth> NoelJB: But grub2 should find all of these and show them to you
[18:53] <TDJACR> Amaranth: Grub1 and Pidgin have more features, imho compared to their replacements.
[18:53] <arielCo> Hello everyone. Does anyone know for sure which directories use the most space for a distro upgrade? My /var is smallish (280 MB avail), and I already tried relocating /var/cache/apt and /var/tmp.
[18:53] <TDJACR> slacker_nl: I know.
[18:53] <Amaranth> TDJACR: pidgin doesn't let me play online multiplayer with people in my contacts
[18:53] <NoelJB> Amaranth, yes, and I've discussed it with Colin.  When we have mutual time, I'll look at moving to GRUB2.  In the meantime ...
[18:54] <NoelJB> Amaranth, and GRUB2 is still too damned unstable (as evidenced by it crashing and burning on me yesterday).
[18:54] <yofel> slacker_nl: yes, but it's not nice to first break your grub setup and then give you the option to enable it again (and not give support if something goes wrong)
[18:54] <darthanubis> And Empathy does not seem to connect to Yahoo
[18:54] <TDJACR> Amaranth: I do value your opinion, but it does vary from mine.
[18:54] <tomasv> yofel: my bad: it actually is grub, but with a screwed up font, and grub2 is installed, since I now have /etc/grub/..., but still not new kernel in the menu, so something got screwed anyway
[18:54] <TDJACR> Anyway, bugs like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/442416 need to be fixed.
[18:54] <wekt> Koala is not destined to become LTS, is it?  Then it not supporting some scenarios that GRUB1 supported could be acceptable.  If GRUB1 wanters support GRUB1 as an alternative, it should be no problem to have both.  GRUB1 supports dvorak layout.  That is what i would be missing i GRUB2.
[18:54] <slacker_nl> arielCo: /var/cache/apt is the big consumer during dist-upgrades
[18:54] <TDJACR> wekt: No it isn'y
[18:54] <wekt> arielCo, you found the ones that gett bigest during an upgrade.
[18:54] <slacker_nl> yofel: i'm running grub1 on karmic...
[18:55] <Amaranth> karmic is the "shove everything we can in" release
[18:55] <yofel> tomasv: sounds like some grub1/2 hybrid state o.O
[18:55] <tomasv> yofel: my thoughts exactly
[18:55] <TDJACR> Amaranth: which is the principle that I disagreed with :p
[18:55] <slacker_nl> yofel: grub2 is only installed when you freshly install karmic
[18:55] <Amaranth> Because lucid is going to have almost no new stuff
[18:55] <yofel> slacker_nl: me too on my other pc, but Martyn said that an updrade will now force grub2
[18:55] <JoeSomebody> hi , very new to linux (installed 9.04 a week or two ago) , old windoze man here, i was wondering as a new ubuntu user, should i upgrade, so i did it because we always have to in windozeland, and now i have an optical drive issue, can anyone help? can i fix or should i toast it and go clean?
[18:55] <Martyn> Koala is not an LTS, correct
[18:55] <slacker_nl> yofel: mkay..
[18:55] <tomasv> let's try to purge/reinstall the whole shebang
[18:55] <Amaranth> TDJACR: That bug is a dupe, btw
[18:55] <NoelJB> Amaranth, I actually HOPE that Lucid is the Snow Leopard release! :-D
[18:55] <TDJACR> Amaranth: Google let me down :p
[18:56] <darthanubis> ok, I was wrong, sweet!
[18:56] <TDJACR> Sorry about that.
[18:56] <slacker_nl> would need to try that, since that is a new policy afaik, since they said that they wouldn't do the grub1 to 2 upgrade
[18:56] <NoelJB> By which I mean, emphasis on bug fixing, not new features.
[18:56] <Martyn> !ot JoeSomebody
[18:56] <Martyn> !ot
[18:56] <arielCo> slacker_nl: NoelJB told me that, but I relocated it and the upgrade procedure seems to check somewhere else: http://pastebin.com/m14d06777
[18:56] <Jeruvy> JoeSomebody: this is for 9.10, I wouldn't upgrade until it's official (29th) otherwise you should be asking in #ubuntu if you need help with 9.04
[18:56] <Amaranth> NoelJB: afaik the only really big new features planned so far all relate to ubuntuone and software-center
[18:56] <wekt> Amaranth, i guess when you write lucid you don't mean xemacs?
[18:56] <Amaranth> !lucid
[18:57] <tomasv> man, I can only uninstall grub, apt doesn't seem to be aware of grub2 :/
[18:57] <NoelJB> Amaranth, both of which are already in Karmic.
[18:57] <JoeSomebody> is there a log of the install so we can see what went wrong?
[18:57] <Martyn> Lucid Lynx is a good name
[18:57] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Right but they'll be vastly expanded
[18:57] <NoelJB> wekt, LOL No.  Lucid Lynx.  Ubuntu 10.04, "Good Buddy"
[18:57] <yofel> tomasv: you want to install grub-pc for grub2
[18:57] <slacker_nl> JoeSomebody: /var/log/apt iirc /var/log/dpkg
[18:57] <Amaranth> NoelJB: software-center is going to replace every package-related GUI except update-manager, for example
[18:57] <darthanubis> why is Empathy showing myself as a contact?
[18:58] <NoelJB> I wonder if anyone outside of the USA knows how funny 10.4 is?
[18:58] <JoeSomebody> thx
[18:58] <NoelJB> Or anyone IN the USA under the age of, oh, 40?  LOL
[18:58] <Martyn> NoelJB : Explain?
[18:58] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Took me a minute there to realize what you meant :)
[18:58] <tomasv> yofel: frankly, I don't really care, I just want a functional bootloader...
[18:58] <NoelJB> Martyn, CB "10" codes.  :-)
[18:58] <Amaranth> 10-4 means "acknowledged" when talking on CB radio
[18:58] <NoelJB> From the days of the CB radio craze.
[18:58] <slacker_nl> 10.4 - okish or something right?
[18:58] <darthanubis> with the gtalk/jabber accounts
[18:59] <Martyn> NoelJB : CHORTLE
[18:59] <Martyn> Gods, I never even thought of it ...
[18:59] <yofel> tomasv: i understand that, I just don't understand how you got into that mess, and don't really know a clear way to get out of it
[18:59] <Martyn> "Good Buddy" indeed
[18:59] <webbb821> i got a telepathy gabble update will this fix empathy
[18:59] <Amaranth> webbb821: only if your problem is getting on IRC
[18:59] <webbb821> oh
[19:00] <NoelJB> Amaranth, what else do we have other than software sources and synaptic?
[19:00] <Amaranth> NoelJB: gdebi
[19:00] <arielCo> http://pastebin.com/m5661c86c  << see what I mean
[19:00] <tomasv> yofel: like kubuntu.org told me: update-notifier-kde -d
[19:00] <Amaranth> NoelJB: and for some reason gnome-app-install
[19:01] <yofel> tomasv: ok, correct way, so I guess the update procedure is broken right now...
[19:01] <slacker_nl> arielCo: increase your /var
[19:01] <webbb821> did they fix the gdeb error of not being able to install a deb threw the gdeb installer  only being able to install via terminal
[19:01] <NoelJB> arielCo, <<sigh>> Looks like the check is stupid and stopping because /var doesn't have enough space, even though /var/apt does.  :-(
[19:01] <tomasv> yofel: which one should i install: grub2 or grub-pc ?
[19:01] <yofel> webbb821: yes, it's fixed
[19:01] <slacker_nl> arielCo: or symlink /var/cache/apt to another dir on your / fs so it has enough space
[19:01] <arielCo> slacker_nl: that's the obvious solution, but I'm trying to workaround to it
[19:02] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, that's exactly what arielCo did, but the check is being dumb about where it needs the space, and just checking the FS root.
[19:02] <arielCo> slacker_nl: /var/cache/apt is already on /, which has 2.2 GB available
[19:02] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: ahh, k, didn't know that
[19:02] <arielCo> yup, maybe it should do the check only where it's going to write
[19:02] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, neither did we, when we all told arielCo to make the symlink
[19:02] <NoelJB> arielCo, please open a bug report on that, so it can be fixed for the future.
[19:03] <NoelJB> arielCo, and feel free to subscribe me, as I'll want to track it.
[19:04] <arielCo> NoelJB: my python skills are still weak, so don't expect any patches ;)
[19:04] <yofel> arielCo: please give me the bug number too, as I'm interested too
[19:04] <arielCo> going
[19:04] <arielCo> launchpad, I guess?
[19:04] <slacker_nl> yes
[19:04] <wekt> yeah, verily.  Intel is using software rendering according to glxinfo: OpenGL renderer string: Software Rasterizer .  Though i would think that would not make 2D lag.  The 2D gets drawn fast enough when it draws, just pauses between events.  I'll try & figure out how to get back to non-software 3D though & see whether that helps.
[19:05] <slacker_nl> arielCo: you can use ubuntu-bugs update-manager to create the bug report
[19:06] <arielCo> NoelJB & slacker_nl: damn, something's screwed after symlinking. Now apt-file search do-dist-upgrade (to locate the pertaining package) yells "shell-init: error retrieving current directory: getcwd: cannot access parent directories: No such file or directory". Guess it's rollback time :)
[19:06] <yofel> arielCo: actually you *should* use ubuntu-bug
[19:07] <NoelJB> arielCo, <<sigh>> lovely.  I wonder if a bind mount would work.
[19:07] <JoeSomebody> the issue with the beta, so far , is that i cannot open my dvdrw after doing an unmount on a blank, anyone know what that might be about , and how to fix it? open button is dead
[19:07] <slacker_nl> yofel: why the should?
[19:07] <arielCo> well, meanwhile I'll undo the relocation
[19:09] <yofel> slacker_nl: we are trying to get as may bug reports reported with apport so that the apport-hooks add additional information to the report. Triaging incomplete bug reports is a huge resource bucket.
[19:09] <slacker_nl> k
[19:10] <raw__> Hey guys.. anyone here can help me get my nvidia card working in studio?
[19:10] <yofel> slacker_nl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/IncreaseApportAdoption if you're interested
[19:10] <Jeruvy> JoeSomebody: same problem here, apport won't report it.  And I can't get dvd playback working, seem to be missing some plugins I cannot get.
[19:10] <yofel> raw__: what's the problem? Driver won't work after installing in hardware drivers?
[19:11] <slacker_nl> yofel: click
[19:11] <SJr> How is Kubuntu doing, should I try upgrading?
[19:12] <yofel> SJr: depending on you, from 'very good' to 'unusable' - decide yourself ;)
[19:12] <arielCo> NoelJB: cancel the getcwd complaint: I was running the apt-file commands standing at /var/cache/apt/, in a terminal I opened *before* symlinking (duh). The original bug stands, though.
[19:12] <slacker_nl> yofel: there is one thing I don't like about apport bug reporting, specificly when it reports a bug due to a crash
[19:12] <raw__> Ok classic thing.. when i ask for help the problem automaticly fixes itself =P
[19:13] <SJr> If my decision to upgrade is dependant upon how stable I think it is, then the only decision I could make is whether to regret it or not
[19:13] <yofel> SJr: you should definitely try a live disk first to see if if works for you
[19:13] <slacker_nl> yofel: and that is that the search for dupe bugs is incorrect, most of my crash reports have been duplicates
[19:13] <yofel> SJr: I'm running kubuntu 32 and 64 bit just fine here
[19:13] <tomasv> ok, uninstalled grub, installed grub2, now: "File not found...", Am I lucky grub2 is only chainloaded and not installed over old grub!
[19:13] <JoeSomebody> i can live with no optical , or optical related bugs, for now, i like the changes i have found so far (real fed up with ms and windoze)
[19:14] <slacker_nl> arielCo: what is the bugnumber?
[19:14] <Armageddon> how's karmic going guys ?
[19:14] <arielCo> slacker_nl: just a minute
[19:15] <JoeSomebody> will there be updates for this beta in between the release date? i am new please bear with my dumb questions
[19:15] <tomasv> back to good old manual edit of menu.lst :/
[19:15] <NoelJB> arielCo, understood.  perhaps we can find the specific bit of code, somewhere in update-manager-core, that does the check, and you can disable it.
[19:16] <virtuald> empathy says network error when it can't connect. wtf does that mean? something a little more helpful would be nice...
[19:16] <NoelJB> JoeSomebody, there have been updates today, yesterday, and pretty much every day.  :-)
[19:16] <JoeSomebody> i see, thx
[19:16] <JoeSomebody> i assume i just go in update manager like before?
[19:16] <Martyn> JoeSomebody : All of us are working hard as dogs right now
[19:16] <Martyn> so there will be near constant software updates, some of which may break things badly if we fsck up
[19:16] <NoelJB> Armageddon, well enough.  Not the end of the world.
[19:17] <JoeSomebody> :)
[19:17] <dbristow> ubuntu-9.10-beta-desktop-armel+dove.img and ubuntu-9.10-beta-desktop-armel+imx51.img.  Can someone tell me what these are for?
[19:17] <Armageddon> NoelJB: last stage karmic didn't boot !
[19:17] <Martyn> JoeSomebody : Let me put it this way -- don't trust a production machine, or anything else you love, to 9.10 until after the release
[19:17] <ActionParsnip> yo yo yo
[19:17] <Martyn> dbristow : I'd lov eot
[19:18] <JoeSomebody> i have replaceable stuff on that machine
[19:18] <Martyn> dbristow : Those are ARM based images, for ARM machines.  the dove is one made by Marvell, the i.mx51 is one made by freescale
[19:18] <Martyn> I'm working on yet another platform, called smooth-stone
[19:18] <dbristow> ARM, ahh.
[19:18] <Martyn> all of them are very low power architectures.  The i.mx51 is focused on netbooks
[19:18] <Martyn> smooth-stone is focused on servers
[19:19] <Martyn> dove is a Marvell test board, one you'll likely never see
[19:21] <virtuald> will cortex 9 be for netbooks?
[19:22] <JoeSomebody> i hope to become a ubuntu power user fast, and help others in my area, see ya later windows and all the viri, bugs etc , that will NEVER get fixed, i been in computers since 88, i am way overdue to become a linux guy
[19:22] <Martyn> virtuald : Someday
[19:22] <virtuald> <:
[19:22] <Martyn> virtuald : For now, most netbooks will be cortex A8
[19:22] <Martyn> (like the iphone is)
[19:22] <virtuald> ok
[19:23] <penguin42> Martyn: It might be interesting - which ARM boards do people expect Karmic to be used on? (or will that be more likely to be found out at release?)
[19:23] <Martyn> penguin42 : Mostly not
[19:23] <Martyn> penguin42 : No support for beagle and whatnot
[19:23] <Martyn> penguin42 : We're using karmic (and used jaunty) to learn what's needed
[19:24] <penguin42> Martyn: Ah right; what about OpenRD ?
[19:24] <Martyn> no comment
[19:24] <penguin42> ah cool :-)
[19:24] <JoeSomebody> the more i learn about linux, ubuntu, the community, you guys, etc. the more i am impressed, thank you all :)
[19:25] <Quarth> Hi people.
[19:25] <Quarth> I have a little problem: desktop not showing any icons since few weeks. Starting gnome in safe mode shows icons. I've checked show-desktop values in gconf-edit nautilus preferences. Any idea? Should I ask somewhere else? Thanks!
[19:25] <penguin42> Quarth: They've been turned off as a design decision
[19:25] <Martyn> yep
[19:25]  * penguin42 looks for the bug
[19:25] <Quarth> Oh! :D
[19:26] <NoelJB> Quarth, UPSTREAM decision.  The gnome folks.
[19:26] <penguin42> #407621
[19:26] <Quarth> It looks a 'funny' decision lol
[19:26] <DanaG> weird... since livecd no longer has Pidgin.... there's no IRC client!
[19:26] <NoelJB> bug #407621
[19:26] <DanaG> At least, Empathy didn't seem to offer IRC.
[19:26] <penguin42> Quarth: You can turn the menu ones back on via system->preferences->appearance->something
[19:26] <wekt> Quarth, i didn't know gnome did it.  KDE4 did it.
[19:27] <Amaranth> No, he is talking about a different problem
[19:27] <virtuald> isn't here going to be something in karmic like the fast user switch applet in jaunty?
[19:27] <Quarth> tx guys, I'll take a look
[19:27] <Amaranth> You guys are talking about icons missing from menus, he is talking about not having desktop icons
[19:27] <Amaranth> virtuald: there already is
[19:27] <penguin42> oh? Desktop icons should stil be there
[19:27] <yofel> JoeSomebody: you're always welcome to help, more people are always needed (and join the bugsquad if you don't hava anything else to do, we really need more people :P)
[19:27] <virtuald> amaranth: where?
[19:27] <Amaranth> virtuald: up by your click, it says your username
[19:27] <Amaranth> err, clock
[19:27] <virtuald> no
[19:28] <virtuald> i don't have it
[19:28] <drs305> Quarth: Do you have both "show desktop" AND "volumes visible" enabled?
[19:28] <Amaranth> virtuald: ok, right click, add to panel, indicator session applet
[19:28] <Amaranth> (it's there in a default install)
[19:28] <Quarth> wait, it's not related to menu, are desktop icons.
[19:28] <Quarth> Oh, I see you realized.
[19:28] <NoelJB> Quarth, which desktop icons don'
[19:28] <virtuald> heh what a name
[19:28] <NoelJB> t appear?
[19:28] <Quarth> drs305, yep.
[19:28] <virtuald> i would have never guessed
[19:28] <Quarth> No desktop icon.
[19:29] <Quarth> I see menu bar and status bar, but desktop is clear. I have docs and so in my /desktop folder.
[19:29] <JoeSomebody> •yofel• when i get my chops i'll be happy to help, i have lots of time normally
[19:30] <Quarth> If I login in gnome-safemode icons are shown
[19:30] <virtuald> amaranth: on what side of the clock should it be? and it doesn't say my username, it shows a barely visible envelope
[19:30] <NoelJB> Quarth, Oh ... hmmm ... so it is as if your ~/Desktop folder isn't being shown at all?
[19:30] <Amaranth> Quarth: gconftool --set --type bool /apps/nautilus/preferences/show_desktop true
[19:31] <Amaranth> virtuald: you added the indicator applet, not the indicator session applet
[19:31] <arielCo> slacker_nl, NoelJB: Bug #442456, both are subscribed
[19:31] <virtuald> ok
[19:31] <Quarth> NoelJB, that's it, no file/doc/folder is shown.
[19:31] <JoeSomebody> i am reading wiley ubuntu secrets 2009 to make sure i have a basic understanding
[19:31] <ajs`> so, i am having trouble mounting removable media after the upgrade, gives me a "Unable to mount location, not Authotized" error.  any idea whats not working?
[19:31] <NoelJB> Quarth, and you have ~/Desktop?  Note: Desktop, *NOT* desktop
[19:31] <DanaG> weird... IRC isn't available in the first-run wizard of Empathy!
[19:31] <DanaG> That's a bug... it'll make it awfully hard for people to get IRC support.
[19:32] <DanaG> It would be good for the livecd to have an account already set up!
[19:32] <Quarth> Amaranth, that setting is already true.
[19:32] <NoelJB> yofel, I believe that you had also expressed interest in bug 442456
[19:32] <Amaranth> Quarth: is nautilus running?
[19:33] <yofel> NoelJB: thx
[19:33] <NoelJB> yofel, self: subscribe, but there's the link
[19:33] <slacker_nl> arielCo: it did download karmic.tgz?
[19:33] <yofel> NoelJB: already done ;)
[19:33] <slacker_nl> arielCo: never mind..
[19:34] <arielCo> slacker_nl: hmm... nope
[19:34] <Jeruvy> ok got libdvdcss2 installed (finally) but totem refuses (permission and plugin issues) and vlc crashes.
[19:34] <Jaymac> does the empathy shipped with the beta not support file transfer over msn?
[19:34] <Quarth> Amaranth, you hit the point!
[19:35] <Quarth> It was not running! :O
[19:35] <arielCo> slacker_nl: oh, log says it did - perhaps it removed it
[19:35] <Quarth> So the problem now is...why it wasn't running? :/
[19:35] <duffydack> NoelJB, I gave up on karmic btw.  the patch didnt change anything.  I guess im staying with jaunty..  "great for older hardware" no longer applies in my case :)
[19:35] <Jeruvy> vlc apport sent.
[19:35] <slacker_nl> arielCo: no, i had an idea, but soon realised it wouldn't work
[19:35] <Amaranth> Quarth: gconftool -g /desktop/gnome/session/required_components_list
[19:36] <Amaranth> Quarth: does that say filemanager?
[19:36] <NoelJB> duffydack, file a bug report.
[19:36] <wekt> Jaymac, I thought empathy didn't support MSN at all.
[19:37] <Quarth> Amaranth, no: [windowmanager,panel]. It seems filemanager was eliminated someway
[19:37] <arielCo> slacker_nl: Here's a thought: relocating /var while GNOME is running would be dangerous, but I guess I could do it in runlevel 3, then come back and try again
[19:37] <NoelJB> mine has [windowmanager,panel,filemanager]
[19:37] <Jaymac> wekt, well it supports chat via the libpurple library
[19:37] <Jaymac> but i don't seem to be able to use file transfer
[19:38] <Quarth> Amaranth, but cheking gconf-editor entry it shows 'filemanager nautilus'
[19:38] <kiwnix> hello, is there any problem reported with 9.10 beta and swt (eclipse 3.5.1 downloaded from www.eclipse.org)?, i'm having problems with buttons not working ok, and widgets not showing correctly
[19:38] <Amaranth> Quarth: ok so in gconf-editor add filemanager to that list
[19:39] <penguin42> kiwnix: Not tried it myself but I thought someone said similar earlier
[19:39] <slacker_nl> arielCo: i would not relocate /var on a running system, /var/run and /var/lock entries will not like that :)
[19:39] <Quarth> Amaranth, weird, filemanager entry is already there.
[19:40] <NoelJB> Quarth, no ... let me explain
[19:40] <BUGabundo> mac_v: so you saw your ears pulled by seb??
[19:40] <Amaranth> Quarth: in /desktop/gnome/session/required_components it is but you need to click on /desktop/gnome/session and edit required_components_list
[19:40] <NoelJB> Quarth, you are looking at the desktop/gnome/session/required_components "directory", but one level up is the KEY that you need to change.
[19:40] <kiwnix> penguin42, thankyou i will search launchpad for hints :)
[19:40] <mac_v> BUGabundo: hmm? i dint understand
[19:41] <NoelJB> click on the desktop/gnome/session and look in the right hand panel.  THERE is the key.  select it and click to edit.
[19:41] <arielCo> slacker_nl: true that. Then it's a job for a live CD. Thanks a bunch.
[19:41] <NoelJB> Quarth, right-click to edit, then click the Add button
[19:41] <BUGabundo> mac_v: humm the bug where he _asked_ you to stay put
[19:42] <BUGabundo> :)
[19:42] <Quarth> Ops! Sorry, now I get it -_-
[19:42] <NoelJB> Quarth, :-D
[19:42] <mac_v> BUGabundo: which?
[19:42] <BUGabundo> lol
[19:42] <BUGabundo> id ont  know
[19:42] <BUGabundo> I've read 150 other bugs
[19:42] <BUGabundo> :D
[19:42] <BUGabundo> don't you read bug mail ?
[19:42] <BUGabundo> ahah
[19:43] <mac_v> BUGabundo: you mean the panel bug? that was not for me ;p
[19:43] <mac_v> notification area*
[19:43] <BUGabundo> no idea , really
[19:43] <BUGabundo> I just saw both your emails on a follow up
[19:43] <Quarth> Great! Done, I'm going to restart the session now to chekc.
[19:44] <Quarth> Tx guys! I'll be back again in few seconds.
[19:44] <mac_v> BUGabundo: i assigned it to a package , then seb changed it  , and someone after me assigned it again to the same package i had assigned ;p
[19:44] <rumpel2> do i something wrong or do make most of the grub2-splashscreens the grubmenu hard to read? o.O
[19:45] <Andy80> I'm connecting to a VPN using NetworkManager on Ubuntu Karmic Beta. I can connect to it, but during connection all other connections are disconnected (I'm connected to my router using an ethernet cable): I see Skype reconnecting, Pidgin reconnecting ecc.... is there any way to avoid this? Is this a bug?
[19:45] <kiwnix> penguin42, looks like the problem is #442078 :(
[19:45] <BUGabundo> mac_v: Bug 294523
[19:45] <BUGabundo> its was colin, sorry
[19:45] <mac_v> BUGabundo: oh.. that , ;0
[19:45] <BUGabundo> eeh
[19:46] <yofel> rumpel2: you can modify the text color too
[19:46] <penguin42> kiwnix: Probably worth confirming it and subscribing then
[19:46] <mac_v> BUGabundo: hehe ,if you see , i clearly say , anyone can revert it back from a dup ... how can a Colin be not sure , if it is a dup and say , i know the code well ;p
[19:46] <kiwnix> i should register first, a long time away from ubuntu, returning now :D
[19:47] <BUGabundo> mac_v: I agree
[19:47] <Jeruvy> ok bug report linked to 439969, hopefully thats the right one.  seems to be a few duplicates
[19:47] <BUGabundo> I've seen many times bugs in apps, where ppl would say it did not exist in the code
[19:47] <NoelJB> bug #439969
[19:49] <andresmh> I installed libdvdcss2 but I am still getting this error when trying to play a DVD on VLC: "VLC cannot set the DVD's title. It possibly cannot decrypt the entire disc"
[19:50] <andresmh> any ideas?
[19:51] <Jeruvy> andresmh: you're one step further than I ;(  still researching.
[19:51] <andresmh> strange. I remember being able to play encrypted DVDs on Karmic before
[19:51] <Quarth> Great! Icons are back. I'm a bit idiot today, first I looked at the wrong place, after I wrote 'filemanger', and after 'fileanager' LOL
[19:51] <Quarth> Thanks!
[19:51] <andresmh> Jeruvy, what error are you getting Jeruvy ?
[19:51] <hosoka> Using laptop Compaq Presario CQ50 and there was at first 9.04 working great en hereafter upgraded to 9.10 which after reboot and the Grub keeps flashing and stops till the login. This keeps ongoing this flashing. Anyone reported this before ?
[19:52] <slacker_nl> arielCo: there is a way to override free disk space check
[19:53] <hosoka> Using laptop Compaq Presario CQ50 and there was at first 9.04 working great en hereafter upgraded to 9.10 which after reboot and the Grub keeps flashing and stops till the login. This keeps ongoing this flashing. Anyone reported this before ?
[19:53] <slacker_nl> arielCo: http://pb.opperschaap.net/51
[19:53] <arielCo> slacker_nl: going
[19:53] <ActionParsnip> hosoka: use the livecd to reinstall grub
[19:53] <rumpel2> yofel, i really miss some really nice splashscreens, which try to adapt to the grub-menu...  e.g. simply a nice frame for the menu... guess, i have to gimp a nice one by myself :)
[19:53] <ActionParsnip> !repeat | hosoka
[19:54] <Jeruvy> andersk: see bug above..
[19:54] <hosoka> ActionParship: Using laptop Compaq Presario CQ50 and there was at first 9.04 working great en hereafter upgraded to 9.10 which after reboot and the Grub keeps flashing and stops till the login. This keeps ongoing this flashing. Anyone reported this before ?
[19:54] <contrast> Greets, everyone...
[19:54] <hosoka> ubottu: thanks for the headsup
[19:54] <Jeruvy> andresmh: rather, see bug above
[19:54] <yofel> ActionParsnip: several hours ago counts as 'quickly'? o.O
[19:54] <contrast> Anyone know if/when the final release of Amarok 2.2 will be hitting the official repos, or if I'm gonna need to add a PPA for it?
[19:54] <yofel> !me | hosoka
[19:55] <hosoka> ActionParship: does this means that this issue is known when upgrading from 9.04 ?
[19:55] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, nice going :-)
[19:55] <hosoka> yofel: hi, it's me again. Coming back as I didn't got a satisfied answer earlier.
[19:56] <yofel> contrast: it's in the repos but a part of it is constantly failing to build, so just be patient
[19:56] <Jeruvy> w64codecs are working great :)  playing .ram
[19:56] <yofel> contrast: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amarok/2:2.2.0-0ubuntu1 if you want to follow it.
[19:57] <slacker_nl> arielCo: http://pb.opperschaap.net/52
[19:57] <contrast> yofel: Cool, thanks for the info... I was only curious since the RC showed up so quickly.
[19:57] <arielCo> that's DistUpgradeController.py or DistUpgradeController.py?
[19:57] <arielCo> ok, going
[19:57] <DeMus> How are the chances that the beta version of KK 9.10 will crash?
[19:57] <penguin42> DeMus: It happens - it's a beta
[19:57] <mac_v> BUGabundo: i would have responded on the bug , saying that and calling out Colin, but thought not worth it :) /me was too busy now fixing stuff with Humanity ;p
[19:57] <DeMus> I mean one month before d-day it should be almost okay, wouldn't it?
[19:57] <yofel> DeMus: depends on your hardware, test the beta on a live disk if you want to make sure
[19:58] <Freeaqingme> DeMus, I upgraded and it didn't want to boot at all. (did a fresh install and all worked fine though)
[19:58] <slacker_nl> arielCo: find /tmp -name karmic, then you will see some tmp<randomstring> and apply the patch, then run ./karmic and see what happens
[19:58] <hosoka> ActionParship: is the livecd the only solution to fix this issue ? Is there no other commands to solve the upgrade instead or will be more updates coming up to fix this.
[19:58] <hosoka> Using laptop Compaq Presario CQ50 and there was at first 9.04 working great en hereafter upgraded to 9.10 which after reboot and the Grub keeps flashing and stops till the login. This keeps ongoing this flashing. Anyone reported this before ?
[19:58] <DeMus> Well, I'm not into upgrading at all, when I chance to KK I will do a full install to get a nice fresh installation
[19:59] <Jeruvy> hosoka: using a cg60 fine, try a fresh install.
[19:59] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, yofel, arielCo  bug #106804
[20:00] <NoelJB> see also: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/106804/comments/6
[20:00] <yofel> NoelJB: interesting, thx
[20:00] <hosoka> Jeruvy: thanks, this means that I do need a clean install. I also noticed that most of recommendations was to use the Live CD.
[20:01] <slacker_nl> click
[20:01] <hosoka> oh well, there is nothing up to it then I believe.
[20:01] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: good find
[20:01] <wekt> DeMus, what graphics card do you have?
[20:01] <NoelJB> I don't know if I should mark the new one as a dup and re-open the bug, or just make a note.
[20:02] <DeMus> nVidia 8500 GT
[20:02] <DeMus> Why?
[20:02] <arielCo> NoelJB: that's the one. Guess mine's a duplicate?
[20:02] <Jeruvy> hosoka: My upgrade went badly also..fresh was fine.  Now all I need fixed is dvd playback and I'm calling this a win :)
[20:02] <NoelJB> arielCo, except that it SHOULD have been fixed.
[20:03] <NoelJB> I just looked at Michael's patch, which should have done it.
[20:03] <hulio> Hello! Been having popping sounds coming from my Audigy2. Anyone else having popping sounds?
[20:03] <wekt> DeMus, because mostly intel is good, but right now there is bug 343528 crashing.  & intel slowness.
[20:03] <arielCo> NoelJB: yeah, the patch is 2 yr old but didn't make it into any release. Good grief.
[20:03] <DeMus> wekt: why you asked?
[20:04] <DeMus> Okay, yes I heard about it
[20:04] <arielCo> slacker_nl: I found a tiny script named 'karmic' under /tmp, but it's a trivial "from DistUpgradeMain import main"
[20:04] <hosoka> Jeruvy: I am gona try it also. Realy sad that it needs a clean install. Hoping upgrade would be ok as I didn't got bad experience with upgrading to previous 9.10 alfa releases.
[20:04] <slacker_nl> arielCo: yes, cd into that dir
[20:04] <arielCo> slacker_nl: !!
[20:04] <slacker_nl> then apply the patch i gave yo
[20:05] <NoelJB> arielCo, if it is marked as Fix Released, it is SUPPOSED to actually be IN a release.  Fix Committed is for when it is only in source control somewhere.
[20:05] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: it is in the sources, but it doesn't work
[20:05] <slacker_nl> what I don't get is why /var is mentioned and not /var/cache/apt
[20:05] <DeMus> I saw KK will have kernel 2.6.31, I had problems with that one so I returned to 2.6.30 in Jaunty. In 2.6.31 my sensors were not detected
[20:05] <yofel> hulio: popping after about 10s?
[20:05] <hulio> Yes, yofel. And before music programs start to play the song.\
[20:06] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, I'll let Michael look at it, for now.
[20:06] <DeMus> Will KK also work with 2.6.30 just incase?
[20:06] <slacker_nl> DeMus: yes
[20:06] <DeMus> That's good to know
[20:07] <TDJACR> NetworkManager doesn't get an IP (I need to use dhclient) and I have tons of messages before the graphic boot kicks in.
[20:07] <yofel> hulio: that's cause in karmic the sound card get's turned on and off instead of being suspended. In this case you should file a bug on launchpad with 'ubuntu-bug linux' if I'm not mistaken
[20:07] <TDJACR> Oh, wlan fails too
[20:07] <TDJACR> But it looks Okay
[20:07] <arielCo> NoelJB: I'm not sure I understand - "Fix Released" is incorrect for this bug?
[20:07] <DanaG> argh, for some reason, my Karmic now just hangs after trying to start apparmor.
[20:07] <hulio> yofel, I'm a launchpad newbie....so do I go to Karmic's page on Launchpad then file it?
[20:07] <DanaG> Mysteriously hangs.
[20:09] <yofel> hulio: no, please open a terminal (Applications->Accessories->Terminal) and type 'ubuntu-bug linux' in there. You'll need a lauchpad account for that though.
[20:10] <hulio> Thank you!
[20:10] <hulio> yofel, :-)
[20:10] <yofel> hulio: np
[20:10] <NoelJB> arielCo, Fix Released means that it is actually in the Ubuntu released packages.  Apparently not for you.  I'm going to look at the code I have here, and at Michael's patch, to see.
[20:13] <TDJACR> Any idea why my touchpad can't two-finger scroll anymore?
[20:13] <mac_v> NoelJB , arielCo: which bug are you guys talking about?
[20:14] <TDJACR> Or why my system hangs randomly :p
[20:14] <mac_v> TDJACR: its now either 2finger or edge scrolling
[20:14] <NoelJB> mac_v, bug 442456 and bug 106804.  The latter has a patch.  I wonder if it failed because the patch has a typo in the file name?
[20:14] <DanaG> ugh, I can't figure out why my restored-from-backup Karmic is hanging on boot.
[20:14] <NoelJB> mac_v, two 'l's in Controller :-)
[20:14] <NoelJB> the patch has 1
[20:14] <DanaG> It goes through apparmor loading, then two lines like this, then hangs:
[20:14] <DanaG> Done.
[20:14] <DanaG> Done.
[20:14] <hulio> yofel, so this popping sound is a known problem?

[20:15]  * mac_v checks
[20:15] <yofel> hulio: yes, dtchen would know more about it
[20:16] <hulio> dtchen, Do you know any information about SoundCards popping on & off in Karmic?
[20:16] <NoelJB> interesting ... $  dpkg -L update-manager-core | grep -F DistUpgradeController.py
[20:16] <NoelJB> /usr/share/pyshared/DistUpgrade/DistUpgradeController.py
[20:16] <NoelJB> /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/DistUpgrade/DistUpgradeController.py
[20:16] <NoelJB> /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/DistUpgrade/DistUpgradeController.py
[20:16] <NoelJB> now to see about the patch ...
[20:16] <mac_v> arielCo , NoelJB : lol  , sometimes bugs happen again... the initial bug was ages ago ;p
[20:16] <NoelJB> mac_v, but the bug is (still|again) present :-)
[20:17] <NoelJB> mac_v, looking at the live code to check.
[20:17] <mac_v> yeah , as i said , it might have started again :)
[20:17] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: the patch should be applied to the sources delivered by karmic.tgz
[20:18] <Moc> I never had soo much force close windows popup in linux than in this beta hehe
[20:19] <NoelJB> OK, there's only one file.  The other two are symlinks ...
[20:19] <mac_v> NoelJB: you could tag the bug , regression-potential , that would give it more prominence
[20:20] <NoelJB> mac_v, done, thanks.
[20:21] <TDJACR> mac_v: Thank you
[20:21] <mac_v> np :)
[20:21] <NoelJB> mac_v, ok the code appears to be totally different from two years ago.  nothing in common, unless I've found the wrong place to look.
[20:22] <TDJACR> Pidgin still seems nicer
[20:23] <TDJACR> !grub2
[20:23] <DanaG> ugh, stupid boot hang.
[20:23] <NoelJB> OK, seems to be DistUpgradeCache.py --- that's the only place that checks freespace
[20:24] <TDJACR> When I boot I get i8042.c: No controller found:
[20:24] <arielCo> slacker_nl: patched, relocated /var/cache/apt/archives again, ran sudo ./karmic (this one uses a dialog), bombed again. Should I delete the .pyc?
[20:25] <arielCo> df -h /var/cache/apt/archives/: Avail = 2.2 GB
[20:27] <kulight> is there a way to automatically recreate the files that makes the boot menu in grub 2 ?
[20:27] <arielCo> slacker_nl: should I also use http://pb.opperschaap.net/51 ?
[20:28] <yofel> kulight: 'sudo update-grub'
[20:28] <yofel> !grub2 | kulight
[20:28] <yofel> kulight: or do you mean to complete /boot/grub/ folder?
[20:29] <kulight> yofel: this only reads the files that are already there and create the menu in my case the file for mem test is gone and i want to recreate the file
[20:30] <slacker_nl> arielCo: no, no need to remove the .pyc, if the .py has changed python knows it needs to recompile the stuff and will not use the .pyc file and 51 is not needed
[20:30] <basso> :3
[20:30] <basso> How do i fix the ATI maximize lag?
[20:30] <slacker_nl> arielCo: you still get the warning?
[20:30] <basso> hear rumors on X-server no backfill thingi
[20:31] <yofel> kulight: you mean you are missing /boot/mentest86+.bin ?
[20:31] <arielCo> slacker_nl: now I see it recompiled and I see that you just changed the path from /var to /var/cache..., but I'm not sure I patched the file in the right path
[20:31] <arielCo> yes, I still get it
[20:31] <slacker_nl> arielCo: cd /tmp/tmp<randomstring> ; patch < thepatch.patch
[20:31] <kulight> yofel: mentest86 is installed but not showing in the grub menu
[20:32] <arielCo> right that - then I ran "sudo ./karmic"
[20:32] <yofel> kulight: in that case 'sudo apt-get install --reinstall memtest86+'
[20:32] <yofel> kulight: what I meant was if you have the mentest .bin file
[20:32] <slacker_nl> arielCo: mkay
[20:32] <slacker_nl> we need a different solution then
[20:32] <arielCo> oh, I see
[20:33] <arielCo> you check /var/cache/apt and I symlinked ./archives  :)
[20:33] <arielCo> will try again
[20:33] <slacker_nl> lol
[20:33] <kulight> yofel: iv'e tried that one but no luck ill try again
[20:33] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, what are you telling arielCo to change?  what's the patch, again?
[20:33] <yofel> kulight: please tell me if you have /boot/memtest86+.bin - all I want to know is if you have that file
[20:33] <arielCo> should I change the path in the script, or relocate again?
[20:33] <arielCo> noeljb: http://pb.opperschaap.net/51
[20:34] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: pb.opperschaap.net/52
[20:34] <arielCo> noeljb: my bad, http://pb.opperschaap.net/52
[20:34] <kulight> yofel: yes its there
[20:35] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: i've asked him to patch the files in /tmp/tmp<randomstring> where do-release-upgrade stores all the files it will use to do th eupgrade
[20:35] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, are you sure that will even help?  the /var does not appear to be checked.  the archivedir is what matters.
[20:35] <yofel> kulight: ok, do you have /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+ and is the script executable?
[20:35] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: not 100% sure
[20:35] <TDJACR> mac_v: I have no sound now :O
[20:36] <mac_v> TDJACR: there you go ... welcome to karmic and the amazing pulseaudio ;p
[20:36] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, that loop only CHECKS free space.  Go down to line 1054.  That's where free space is CHECKED.
[20:36] <TDJACR> mac_v: I had to compile it on Jaunty
[20:36] <TDJACR> mac_v: Alsa, that is
[20:36] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: lemme see
[20:36] <NoelJB> sorry.  it is computed where you said, and CHECKED starting at 1054
[20:36] <kulight> yofel: /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+.dpkg-dist is executable
[20:36] <TDJACR> mac_v: MBP 5,3?
[20:37] <basso> anyone running 9.10 on ati gfx?
[20:38] <yofel> kulight: ok... the .dpkg-dist part shouldn't be there
[20:38] <yofel> kulight: can you try to rename the file?
[20:38] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, ooo I think I see a possibility.  REMOVE /var from the first loop.
[20:38] <kulight> yofel: is there a way to recreate the files in this folder /etc/grub.d/?
[20:38] <kulight> yofel: yes sure im on it
[20:39] <yofel> kulight: well, the 20_memtest86+ script is part of the memtest86+ package so the reinstall from before *should* have re-created it...
[20:40] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: it loops through fsfree, which is a dictionary which is filled by that first loop, and then it checks wheter the space is enough
[20:40] <mac_v> TDJACR: sound is a mess i know not much of ;)
[20:40] <kulight> yofel: renaming worked that you
[20:40] <yofel> kulight: I don't get though why the file had the wrong name o.O
[20:41] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: I think it might just work with /var/cache/apt, but removing /var could also do the trick
[20:41] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, yes.  there are actually three (3) loops, starting at 992 (figure out what free space we have), 1040 (figure out what we need), 1054 (figure out what failed).
[20:41] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: jep
[20:42] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, and do you see the 1040 loop do anything with /var?
[20:42] <kulight> yofel: i have installed windows after i have installed Ubuntu it messed things up a bit i also had to manually create the windows file
[20:43] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: if archivedir is /var/apt/cache yes
[20:43] <virtuald> will ubuntu ever go as insane as fedora and removing /dev/dsp?
[20:43] <slacker_nl> /var/cache/apt i mean
[20:43] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, that's a separate entry, no?
[20:43] <arielCo> slacker_nl, NoelJB: apparently it worked :) "Getting new packages"
[20:43] <NoelJB> arielCo, what worked?  what change did you make?
[20:44] <yofel> virtuald: thankfully not /yet/
[20:44] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: /var/apt/cache is a seperate entry yes
[20:44] <virtuald> i hope they don't do it for lucid
[20:44] <arielCo> slacker_nl, NoelJB: /var/cache/apt -> /var/cache/apt/archives. On top of Slacker's patch
[20:45] <TDJACR> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro5-3/Karmic is wrong, .32 isn't out.
[20:45] <TDJACR> And sound doesn't wotk
[20:45] <NoelJB> that probably made that entry redundant with the archivedir entry
[20:45] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: jep
[20:46] <volkodav> Anybody has this problem with nvidia-settings when I add set up the twin view and try to save X to config it saus can not parse the file and crashes
[20:46] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: removing the /var entry would be enough
[20:46] <volkodav> every reboot I have to do it all over again?
[20:46] <yofel> volkodav: you're the second today with that problem, iirc moving the original xorg.conf fixed it
[20:47] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: or would do the same in this case
[20:47] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: it should check diskspace for /var but for /var/cache/apt of whatever the location is of the archivedir
[20:47] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: s/should/should not/
[20:47] <volkodav> moving meanin renaming or what ?
[20:48] <arielCo> slacker_nl, NoelJB: yup, in short, that's what slacker's patch does. /var -> /var/cache/apt/archives
[20:48] <yofel> volkodav: that would work too
[20:48] <volkodav> hmm let's see
[20:49] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, see the comment I made in the bug report.
[20:50] <NoelJB> I can't mark it triaged, but hopefully mvo will see it and make the fix quickly.
[20:51] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: i agree with the comment you made in the bug report
[20:52] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, feel free to comment.
[20:52] <NoelJB> I'm going to prep a quick patch if someone wants to try it.
[20:52] <volkodav> yofel: thanks it worked
[20:55] <TDJACR> Anyone have any solution for sound on a Macbook Pro 5,3 and backlight on the same model
[20:55] <Martyn> TDJACR: I'm working on sound
[20:55] <TDJACR> Martyn: Cool
[20:55] <Martyn> TDJACR : but I don't think we'll have a backlight solution for a while.
[20:55] <Martyn> TDJACR : It turns out the sound chip is the same as the one I'm using on a different platform, so it's a side-effect of my solution
[20:56] <TDJACR> Martyn: It worked in Jaunty.
[20:56] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, arielCo, yofel see the patch I put on bug 442456
[20:56] <TDJACR> Both did, sound took some extra effort
[20:57] <Martyn> TDJACR : Yes, but the driver now has to work with pulse
[20:57] <Martyn> which has changed fundamentally .. like I said, it -will- work, but I'll need to work on it for a bit
[20:57] <TDJACR> Martyn: Okay, cool.
[20:57] <TDJACR> Martyn: How long do you think this'll take?
[20:58] <Martyn> week
[20:58] <NoelJB> TDJACR, I like Ubuntu, but out of curiosity, why buy a Mac, paying premium and getting Mac OS X, and then install linux?  answer privately if you wish.
[20:58] <Martyn> Mac isn't my primary focus .. it's a MID/Media Player that I work on that has the same hardware
[20:58] <Martyn> NoelJB : Um .. I do the same thing :)
[20:59] <arielCo> slacker_nl, NoelJB: looks even better - I didn't know the path is variable
[20:59] <Martyn> NoelJB : Triple booting Windows 7 (Work requirement for developer tools on ARM), OS X (I like OS X), and 9.10 (duh, cause I work on that too)
[21:00] <TDJACR> Martyn: Please PM me when done if possible
[21:01] <Martyn> TDJACR : Keep your eye on launchpad
[21:01] <Martyn> and subscribe to the bug
[21:01] <Martyn> I can't remember everyone who is affected, after all :)
[21:01] <TDJACR> NoelJB: It was purchased for me, as a gift from a conglomerate of friends.
[21:01] <NoelJB> TDJACR, nice friends :-D
[21:01] <TDJACR> Martyn: Okay, no problem, thanks. Would you happen to have the bug link?
[21:01] <TDJACR> NoelJB: Yeah, lots of them.
[21:02] <TDJACR> NoelJB: But I got the 5,3 from apple because the original one was defective.
[21:02] <TDJACR> It was a 3,1
[21:02] <Martyn> TDJACR :Not offhand.  I'll look it up
[21:03] <Freeaqingme> Is it worth to report that the installer damaged 25% of my files while resizing an ext3 partition?
[21:03] <slacker_nl> NoelJB, arielCo: I think we resolved a bug today ;)
[21:04] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, would be nice :-)
[21:04] <TDJACR> Martyn: Thank you
[21:04] <Martyn> Freeaqingme: If there is no current bug reported, yes.
[21:04] <Martyn> that would be a very good idea to report it, and how to reproduce too
[21:04] <slacker_nl> does anyone know how long it takes before a changelog is put on changelogs.u.c?
[21:04] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, and it is nice when a bug can be fixed by REMOVING code :-)
[21:05] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: very true :)
[21:05] <Freeaqingme> Martyn, I love my data too much to even try to reproduce :P
[21:05] <arielCo> slacker_nl, NoelJB: yeah, will it make it into karmic?
[21:05] <slacker_nl> arielCo: i do think so, if it will not make the initial release it should be in -updates
[21:05] <NoelJB> arielCo, that's up to whomever has commit rights.  if it were NetworkManager or ModemManager, I'd have a better chance of saying.
[21:06] <NoelJB> Since I've already made fixes to those packages and had them included.
[21:06] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: networkmanager you say :)
[21:06]  * NoelJB looks around for an exit.
[21:06] <slacker_nl> haha
[21:06] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, LOL yeah.  Dare I ask why you ask?
[21:08] <arielCo> slacker_nl, NoelJB: haha, I get it. I do believe in taking care of small things; one bug down, couple of thousands to go ;)
[21:08] <TDJACR> Since the backlight isn't a package, how do I file the proper bug?
[21:08] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: i have some issues with network manager which does not respect the mapping stanza
[21:09] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: it is reported upstream, but i've seen no action..
[21:09] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: bug 413622
[21:09] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, I haven't looked at that code at all.  I've worked on some issues with modems (udev related stuff) and a few other things in NM.
[21:10] <TDJACR> I also get USB_id[453]: Unable to access /devices/pci...... on boot
[21:10] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: k, the fix is pretty easy, just disable the startup scripts :)
[21:10] <michaelj> Karmic Koala - intel 915 graphics driver,  in Alpha 6 Kernel Mode Setting enabled, in 9.10 Beta, Kernel setting mode no longer enabled
[21:11] <slacker_nl> although now with upstart..
[21:11] <michaelj> :(
[21:11] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, have you tried the PPA code?  I know that there have been some fixes in that area.  I had similar problems.
[21:11] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: nope, what is the PPA?
[21:11] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, https://launchpad.net/~network-manager/+archive/trunk/+packages
[21:11] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: I removed NM, don't use it.. :)
[21:12] <michaelj> i was able to set it up again in /etc/initramfs - but i'm unsure if this is because i'm upgrading from the alpha, or if it's actually regressed in teh Beta
[21:12] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, and #nm is where those of us who pretend to play with the code hang out.
[21:13] <NoelJB> Amaranth, that Intel KMS issue anything you'd know about?
[21:13] <Amaranth> NoelJB: yeah, intel_agp is loading after i915
[21:13] <Amaranth> NoelJB: There is a workaround but it doesn't work 100%
[21:13] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, well, if you want help, you need to reinstall it so that we can reproduce and fix.  :-)
[21:13] <NoelJB> Amaranth, have something we can point michaelj at?
[21:14] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Not really, even with the workaround you end up having to reboot a couple times to fix it
[21:14] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: will do that, it has been reproduced already btw (dunno if you looked at bug report)
[21:14] <Amaranth> bug 430694
[21:14] <NoelJB> michaelj, see above ^^^^
[21:14] <slacker_nl> anywayz, reboot time, see if guessnet upgrade fixes a bug i reported today
[21:15] <michaelj> Amaranth, NoelJB, thanks guys
[21:15] <TDJACR> Martyn: Was that url ever posted?
[21:15] <michaelj> Amaranth, NoelJB, i managed to figure out that workaround, was checking if it was filed
[21:16] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, FWIW: 20090804t185522.4bab334-0ubuntu1 -- I am really sure that there were fixes after that.  :-)
[21:16] <michaelj> Amaranth, NoelJB job done :)
[21:16] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, as I said, I had very similar issues.
[21:19] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: that is from the PPA?
[21:19] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, that was the version you reported to have.  Mine is 0.8~a~git.20090930t162132.866d48b-0ubuntu1~nmt1
[21:20] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: k
[21:20] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, changelog at http://cgit.freedesktop.org/NetworkManager/NetworkManager/log/
[21:20] <TDJACR> Now I'm split once again between Arch and Ubuntu
[21:20] <slacker_nl> click
[21:21] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, I believe that the fixes on Sept 4 are what you want.  I spent a lot of time with dan and asac in the IRC doing testing.
[21:24] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: looks like it, to bad the keyserver is slow again..
[21:24] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: that change hasn't made it into karmic yet?
[21:25] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, should have.  Not sure what is in the beta.
[21:25] <cybersplice> Anyone having problems with nzb exploding when you try and do.. .well anything?
[21:25] <AlienX> anyone seeing an issue where they get a blue/aqua hue on videos?
[21:25] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: should be in there i guess 0.8~a~git.20090923t064445.b20cef2-0ubuntu2
[21:25] <NoelJB> looks like the beta is 0.8~a~git.20090923t064445.b20cef2-0ubuntu2
[21:25] <ikt> have there been any updates recently?
[21:26] <AlienX> ikt, yeah, daily lol
[21:26] <slacker_nl> ikt: it is a development release, there are daily updates :)
[21:26] <ikt> hrmm
[21:26] <NoelJB> ikt, define lately.  200+ since thursday.
[21:26] <ikt> I think I might have something wrong
[21:26] <ikt> I haven't had any updates for about a week
[21:26] <ikt> think my local mirror isn't updating, cheers  :)
[21:26] <slacker_nl> ikt: i had the same thing, then I remembered I pinned all my packages :D
[21:27] <ikt> pinned?
[21:27] <slacker_nl> ikt: a way to make sure you don't upgrade certain packages
[21:27] <ikt> ah ok
[21:27] <slacker_nl> google apt pinning if you want to know more about it
[21:28] <ikt> done and done :)
[21:29] <NoelJB> ikt, My dpkg log has 361 installs since 9/30
[21:30] <BUGabundo> that's all?
[21:30] <BUGabundo> lol
[21:31] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, LOL that's just a grep in the file.  I didn
[21:31] <NoelJB> t check the even bigger one right before.
[21:31] <NoelJB> ikt, what happens if you go to a command line and enter sudo apt-get update; sudo aptitude safe-upgrade ?
[21:31] <BUGabundo> eheh
[21:32] <BUGabundo> I do that every day
[21:32] <BUGabundo> better yet
[21:32] <BUGabundo> aptitude
[21:32] <BUGabundo> $ sudo aptitude update ; sudo aptitude safe-upgrade ; sudo aptitude full-upgrade
[21:32] <BUGabundo> once or twice daily
[21:32] <slacker_nl> i hardly do the full-upgrade
[21:32] <slacker_nl> as in never actually
[21:32] <BUGabundo> me neither
[21:32] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, but only 4000 installs since sept 1.
[21:32] <ikt> 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[21:32] <BUGabundo> I just check to see if something is jammed
[21:33]  * BUGabundo updates
[21:33] <BUGabundo> I just upgrade 1h ago
[21:33] <BUGabundo> its weekend so should be calm
[21:33] <slacker_nl> if I do a full upgrade now, it will upgrade libc6 and that upgrade means b0rkage
[21:33] <NoelJB> language pack appears upgraded
[21:34] <NoelJB> and the new modemmanager in the PPA is ready to install
[21:35] <NoelJB> ikt, what did the apt-get update show?  you should have seen it try to download files.
[21:35] <ikt> http://mirror.internode.on.net/pub/ubuntu/ubuntu/
[21:36] <ikt> wp[s
[21:36] <ikt> opps*
[21:36] <ikt> it went through the usual, and then said no updates
[21:37] <BUGabundo> Current status: 7 updates [+7], 1876 new [+1].
[21:37] <BUGabundo>   language-pack-en language-pack-en-base language-pack-gnome-en language-pack-gnome-en-base language-pack-kde-en   language-pack-kde-en-base modemmanager
[21:37] <ikt> http://pastebin.com/m16b346ab
[21:37] <BUGabundo> there goes my net :D
[21:37] <ikt> I don't think the mirror is updating
[21:39] <NoelJB> ikt, are you hard-coded to a mirror?  My list looks totally different: http://pastebin.com/m1f54bc6a
[21:39] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: nope, nm still bugs me
[21:39] <ikt> yeah
[21:39] <ikt> I've got internode (my isp) as my mirror
[21:39] <NoelJB> ikt, try going back to the "normal" way
[21:39] <ikt> that way updates aren't counted towards my usage (yay)
[21:39] <NoelJB> ikt, ah, but ...
[21:40] <BUGabundo> NoelJB: you have WAY too many pockets
[21:40] <BUGabundo> you don't need security or updates
[21:40] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, I will
[21:40] <BUGabundo> during devel cicles
[21:40] <yofel> meh, amarok ketting kept back is starting to get annyoing
[21:40] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, I know.
[21:41] <ikt> ok yep, changing back 277MB worth of update
[21:41] <ikt> so mirror is not updating, cheers all :)
[21:43] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, oddly ... someone commented yesterday about 2.6.32 being in karmic backports, but I don't see anything in there when I look.
[21:44] <BUGabundo> let me check LP
[21:44] <BUGabundo> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/
[21:45] <BUGabundo> humm
[21:45] <BUGabundo> is it me or aint that link opening ??
[21:45] <BUGabundo> LP down?
[21:46] <yofel> BUGabundo: wfm
[21:47] <BUGabundo> :(
[21:47] <BUGabundo> not here
[21:47] <BUGabundo> well then, yofel can you check what NoelJB said?
[21:47] <ikt> lp is sooo slow
[21:48] <NoelJB> opened for me, BUGabundo .  but I don't see anything about ANYTHING being in karmic backports anywhere.
[21:48] <NoelJB> so I have no idea to what that person was referring.
[21:48] <BUGabundo> yeah I would thoutg so too
[21:48] <BUGabundo> only chance would we have something on Security
[21:48] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: i responded to your reproduce error, attached daemon.log and apt-cache policy info
[21:48] <BUGabundo> but TOOO soon for that
[21:48] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, :-)
[21:48] <BUGabundo> only after RC
[21:49] <BUGabundo> NoelJB: could it be jaunty by mistake?
[21:49] <slacker_nl> greee
[21:49] <slacker_nl> where is my comment?!?
[21:50] <slacker_nl> there it is.. pffff
[21:50] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, 2.6.32 in jaunty?  no clue.  haven't looked.  could reboot and try.  nothing could make jaunty worse than it is.
[21:50] <mm_202> Anyone else have an issue with the 9.10 x64 DVD not showing the plasma desktop (ran as the LiveCD)?
[21:51] <NoelJB> (for me)
[21:51] <BUGabundo> NoelJB: of course not
[21:51] <BUGabundo> maybe s/he made a version mistake
[21:52] <slacker_nl> cheers all
[21:52] <slacker_nl> i'm going to bed
[21:52] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: nice meeting you
[21:52] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, well, since for me, jaunty kernel traps regularly, it is basically a playpen until I purge it.  I'll do a clean install of karmic over it, and after I make sure that everything from my current karmic is taken care of, I'll reuse my current karmic for lucid.
[21:52] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, same.  by the way, does the _nl imply netherlands?
[21:52] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: yes :)
[21:53] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, where?
[21:53] <slacker_nl> amsterdam
[21:53] <zmjjmz> so is there any reason why the Broadcom STA driver won't activate?
[21:53] <NoelJB> ah, lovely place.  Been there every year for the past 5 or so.
[21:53] <slacker_nl> that is nice :)
[21:54] <BUGabundo> NoelJB: I just pile alpha version on top of my running alpha version
[21:54] <BUGabundo> can't wait for tool chaing to open
[21:54] <BUGabundo> will miss all of you guyes
[21:54] <BUGabundo> after #releaseparty :(
[21:55] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, why miss us?
[21:55] <BUGabundo> I like you guys
[21:55] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, so where are you or we going?
[21:55] <BUGabundo> I've been on this # for the last 3 yearss
[21:55] <BUGabundo> we get attached
[21:55] <BUGabundo> NoelJB: you don't know??
[21:55] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, nope.  what?
[21:55] <BUGabundo> this # gets closed a few days after release!
[21:55] <BUGabundo> and then reopens only after toolchain
[21:56] <BUGabundo> which mean at least 2 weeks without our bonding
[21:56] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, oh, I never noticed.  Well, I'll be back as soon as it opens, too.
[21:56] <BUGabundo> not that I've been much active here lattely
[21:56] <BUGabundo> but new job takes most of my time
[21:56] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, and I find that it helps to do a clean install every once in a while.  I have, for example, two karmic installs.  one from scratch, one from jaunty.  they actually behave differently.
[21:57] <BUGabundo> my last system run from 6.10 beta till karmic A2 :)
[21:57] <BUGabundo> only recently I did a clean install :)
[21:58] <BUGabundo> I remember reading Charlie-tca he still had a 4.10 upgraded up to jaunty :D
[21:59] <cyberix> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa-utils/+bug/442574
[22:00] <Ian_Corne> we couild create ubuntu+1.01 !
[22:00] <BUGabundo> hen?
[22:01] <BUGabundo> it does?
[22:01]  * BUGabundo goes testing
[22:01] <BUGabundo> 8928 frames in 5.0 seconds
[22:01] <BUGabundo> runs well in here
[22:01] <BUGabundo> with nvidia
[22:02] <Ian_Corne> runs good here too
[22:02] <Ian_Corne> with fglrx
[22:03] <cyberix> it must be something related to my video card
[22:03] <minimec> glxgears working here with ATI X1250
[22:04] <cyberix> Could someone take a look at the xorg log I attached?
[22:05] <test34> glxgears works fine here too
[22:06] <cyberix> (EE) Failed to load module "i810" (module does not exist, 0)
[22:06] <cyberix> is this a problem
[22:06] <cyberix> or is it just trying to load stuff by trial and error?
[22:07] <cyberix> There is also a "(EE) GLX error: Can not get required symbols." later
[22:07] <cyberix> but I have no idea what that means
[22:07] <Ian_Corne> how long ago did you update cyberix ?
[22:07] <Ian_Corne> i had that error before
[22:08] <ArkoldThos> heya, I just upgraded to Kubuntu Karmic (beta 1) and it just doesnt boots
[22:08] <ArkoldThos> takes forever on the first screen, then the display goes black
[22:09] <DanaG> grr, danged upstart is such a pain to debug.
[22:09] <DanaG> When things fail to mount, mountall just plain hangs.
[22:09] <yofel> DanaG: +1
[22:10] <ArkoldThos> anyone got the same problem than me? :(
[22:10] <DanaG> I've been wrangling with that for the past 4 or so hours.
[22:10] <DanaG> Failure to boot... just hangs after apparmor, apparently at mountall.
[22:10] <yofel> I missed a number in my /home uuid 2 days ago an couldn't even get into repair mode *-.-
[22:10] <test34> ArkoldThos, maybe look at bugs 431812 & 428920
[22:10] <DanaG> I finally figured out that alt-sysrq-E terminates stuff without causing a panic.
[22:10] <test34> 428920
[22:10] <DanaG> And now, gdm doesn't start automatically.
[22:10] <ArkoldThos> thanks test34
[22:11] <yofel> DanaG: what? you now too? That makes at least more than 5 here with that issue, kdm still starts fine here
[22:11] <test34> I guess the bot only parses the first bug number he sees
[22:12] <DanaG> ... and that's when it even manages to boot.
[22:12] <yofel> DanaG: does 'initctl list' give any clue as to why it doesn't start?
[22:12] <DanaG> oh, and I found out that not backing up things with "tmp" and "cache" as parts of the path, breaks stuff.
[22:13] <DanaG> http://pastebin.com/f74a8471d
[22:15] <yofel> DanaG: hm... as I undestand upstart gdm should start once mountall and hal finish loading...
[22:15] <DanaG> mountall seems to not finish; that's part of it.
[22:15] <DanaG> and hal is ignoring my fdi files, for some reason.
[22:16] <yang_> Hey, is there a reason I cant hard set DNS in Karmic for my own local server?
[22:17] <yofel> yang_: you mean you can't set a dns in nm-applet?
[22:17] <yang_> while actually from the /etc/resolv.conf file
[22:17] <yang_> changed the contents entirely to nameserver 10.0.1.100
[22:17] <yofel> not sure about that, but nm-applet is having configuration issues at the moment
[22:17] <yang_> O, okay.
[22:18] <yang_> KDE Knetworkmanger is worse.
[22:18] <cyberix> Ian_Corne, I checked. I was lacking two updates to libffi
[22:18] <yang_> i cant even get that to connect to hidden wpa network
[22:18] <peol> Uh, quick question, is there any answer to why the option to set individual sound effects has been removed in Karmic, e.g. set mail notification sound etc.?
[22:18] <cyberix> Ian_Corne, I hope that doesn't affect this problem :-D
[22:18] <DanaG> damnit, hal, stop ignoring me, or I'll start pulling your circuit boards out.
[22:18] <DanaG> =þ
[22:19] <yofel> ^^
[22:21] <DanaG> fdi cache regeneration failed!
[22:21] <DanaG> that's what it says.
[22:26] <Jeruvy> seems I'm missing a plugin for dvd playback, "gstreamer element dvdspu"  anyone have a idea where I can find it?
[22:26] <Freeaqingme> ubuntu-restricted-extras ?
[22:26] <volkodav> I don't get the reason they switched to this half done empathy from pidgin ?
[22:29] <peol> volkodav: Me neither to be honest, I wiped it out and installed Pidgin again, Empathy is nowhere near to be default IM functionality-wise.
[22:29] <Jeruvy> Freeaqingme: thought I had that one, but I didn't.  thanks.
[22:29] <volkodav> true peol
[22:29] <volkodav> no plugins
[22:29] <volkodav> poor thing
[22:34] <volkodav> I want to uncheck flash plugin and thw wrapper from ubuntu-restricted-extras
[22:34] <volkodav> and can't seem to find the way in this new Software center
[22:34] <volkodav> will do cli
[22:35] <NoelJB> ah, they just released a fix for one of the grub 2 self-destruct bugs: bug 439784
[22:35] <NoelJB> that's the one that bit me yesterday.
[22:36] <nlogax> hello! i just installed the 9.10 beta on my imac. most things seem to be working. sound, however, always comes from the crappy internal speakers, even when something else is plugged into the output jack.
[22:36] <nlogax> dunno if it's a beta issue or not, since i (foolishly?) installed the beta on my first attempt.
[22:36] <DanaG> ugh, now it's giving "invalid environment block" at grub.
[22:36] <nlogax> anyone know anything about it?
[22:39] <NoelJB> Martyn, is the iMac audio the same as the audio you're working on?
[22:39] <NoelJB> DanaG, it is?  see bug 439784 (above).  They just released the fix, and the bug report describes work-a-around.
[22:40] <DanaG> ah yeah, I booted  by removing the lines.
[22:40] <NoelJB> DanaG, I believe that colin has been really frustrated with that, wanting to know why the file keeps getting corrupted.
[22:40] <DanaG> anyway, gdm still didn't start, and last time it tried, I got a crashdump.
[22:43] <ArkoldThos> now when I click on other partition (NTFS) returns me: org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.Volume.InvalidMountOption
[22:43] <ArkoldThos> :|
[22:45] <peol> Is there any answer to why the option to set individual sound effects has been removed in Karmic, e.g. set mail notification sound etc.?
[22:46] <digitaloktay> hi people
[22:46] <digitaloktay> has  karmic new x-server??
[22:48] <RPG_Master> Am I the only one who can't interact with stuff using flash, but only in Firefox?
[22:48] <RPG_Master> Like, flash work fine in Epiphany
[22:48] <RPG_Master> *works
[22:50] <funkyHat> Anyone else using inkscape and finding it really slow in Karmic? :(
[22:50] <yofel> RPG_Master: others reported the same issue
[22:50] <RPG_Master> funkyHat: Let me check
[22:51] <yofel> digitaloktay: apt-cache policy xserver-xorg-core gives me 2:1.6.3-1ubuntu7
[22:51] <yofel> digitaloktay: so it's still Xorg 7.4
[22:51] <RPG_Master> funkyHat: work fine for me :(
[22:52] <funkyHat> RPG_Master: ok, it is probably just something I'm doing wrong then :(
[22:52] <funkyHat> blahh
[22:52] <RPG_Master> yofel: Do they know why?
[22:53] <yofel> RPG_Master: no idea, I just heard the other folks talking about it, flash works fine here
[22:53] <NoelJB> same here (re: Flash)
[22:53] <RPG_Master> yofel: :(
[22:53] <RPG_Master> NoelJB: But does it work in other browsers?
[22:53] <RPG_Master> Like epiphany
[22:53] <NoelJB> RPG_Master, there are other browsers than Firefox?  ;-)
[22:53] <yang_> Hey anybody here run their own dns server?
[22:53] <NoelJB> RPG_Master, sorry, haven't tried.
[22:53] <ArkoldThos> someone having problems while mounting NTFS partitions on Kubuntu Karmic Koala?
[22:54] <yang_> I can mount ntfs fine
[22:54] <digitaloktay> yofel, i think 10.04 the new xserver ;)
[22:54] <ArkoldThos> yang_, from Dolphin? it is returning org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.Volume.InvalidMountOption
[22:55] <yang_> I got those to sorry
[22:55] <yang_> utf 8. invalid
[22:55] <yang_> i mounted them by han
[22:55] <ArkoldThos> okay :)
[22:56] <yang_> after you mount them by hand you should be able to get them in doplhin fine
[22:56] <yang_> if the permant maybe add to /etc/fstab?
[22:57] <gregsp___> hi guys - if i want to upgrade from jaunty to karmic - what do i bang in the command line?
[22:57] <rsk> gregsp___: sudo update-manger -d
[22:57] <rsk> and voila
[22:57] <gregsp___> i got a command line only system installed.... no gnome or nothing
[22:57] <yang_> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[22:58] <gregsp___> do i have to install the full desktop?
[22:58] <yofel_> ArkoldThos: see bug 395079
[22:58] <gregsp___> really want to keep this as small as possible...
[22:58] <yang_> that i dont know
[22:58] <Pici> gregsp___: sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[22:58] <Pici> gregsp___: Please check the beta release notes in the topic for more information
[22:59] <gregsp___> ya beauty!! pici thanks
[22:59] <acicula> when i activate openvpn it creates the right tap device, but my wireless wont respond anymore to arp requests for it's ip, so my connection dies after 10 seconds or so, anyone know a way around that?(i'm on wireless ap that plugs into a rouer
[22:59] <xcvsdfgh> My system just hard crashed. :(
[22:59] <xcvsdfgh> I hate how unstable Karmic is.
[23:00] <xcvsdfgh> It's seriously getting in the way of my work.
[23:00] <rsk> dont use karmic on a production system...
[23:00] <yang_> it is a beta. and runs pretty stable here
[23:00] <ArkoldThos> yofel, okay, thanks
[23:00] <xcvsdfgh> yang_: It just hard crashed...
[23:00] <yang_> I had that happend to me in the aplha stages with my wireless drivers
[23:00] <ArkoldThos> i used debian sid for a year or two and was always stable D:
[23:00] <NoelJB> xcvsdfgh, it is a beta (and only just beta).  hardy, intrepid or (if it works for you) jaunty, would be better choices for production.
[23:01] <xcvsdfgh> NoelJB: Jaunty doesn't like my Wi-Fi card.
[23:02] <NoelJB> xcvsdfgh, which card?
[23:02] <xcvsdfgh> NoelJB: Netgear MA311 or something like that.
[23:02] <NoelJB> xcvsdfgh, and does Intrepid?
[23:02] <xcvsdfgh> NoelJB: Intrepid doesn't have encrypted home directory support
[23:04] <NoelJB> xcvsdfgh, well, its always something.  intrepid does do encrypted home, jaunty doesn't like the wifi, and karmic isn't stable enough for you.  hopefully, you'll be OK in another few weeks.
[23:04] <NoelJB> s/does/doesn't/
[23:05] <xcvsdfgh> NoelJB: I don't remember any option to encrypt my home directory in the installation.
[23:05] <vinoman> trying to install BW43 driver for wifi on live CD. what is root password for live CD?
[23:05] <xcvsdfgh> NoelJB: Hopefully I'll be okay in a few weeks. :)
[23:05] <ActionParsnip> hey guys
[23:05] <xcvsdfgh> vinoman: Don't you get automatically logged in as root?
[23:05] <xcvsdfgh> ActionParsnip: Hi.
[23:05] <ActionParsnip> is erlang necessary?
[23:06] <ActionParsnip> xcvsdfgh: i hope not
[23:06] <NoelJB> xcvsdfgh, FWIW, I see several MA311 related bugs closed as invalid because people didn't want to work with the development team on them.
[23:06] <ActionParsnip> xcvsdfgh: (logging on as root etc)
[23:06] <xcvsdfgh> NoelJB: It's a 2.6.28 kernel problem.
[23:07] <xcvsdfgh> NoelJB: So I figured changing the kernel is easier than messing around with bug reports.
[23:07] <xcvsdfgh> ActionParsnip: What's erlang?
[23:07] <ArkoldThos> pfffffft :( unmet dependencies with amarok
[23:07] <NoelJB> xcvsdfgh, OK.  :-)  I know of other kernel problems in 2.6.31.  On one case, we put code in modem manager to work around one of them.
[23:08] <NoelJB> erlang is used with couchdb
[23:08] <NoelJB> www.erlang.org/
[23:08] <yofel> ArkoldThos: the build of amarok-common failed, you'll have to wait for it to get fixed
[23:08] <ActionParsnip> xcvsdfgh: seems to be something to do with couchdb (whatever that is)
[23:09] <ArkoldThos> yeh, lets hope until the devs uplodad the new amarok-common :)
[23:09] <xcvsdfgh> OMG pornview I sooooooooooooo cool
[23:09] <ActionParsnip> NoelJB: what is couchdb dude?
[23:09] <xcvsdfgh> s/I/is/
[23:09] <vinoman> I just pressed enter and it starts to install but does not. can't you install as live cd?
[23:09] <vinoman> wifi worked well in ver. 9.04. I hope this isn't a step for Ubuntu
[23:09] <vinoman> a step backward for Ubuntu
[23:09] <ArkoldThos> xcvsdfgh, what is pornview?
[23:09] <ActionParsnip> vinoman: just gotta reconfigure it for the new kernel
[23:09] <yofel> ArkoldThos: well, the build failed due to a broken mysql client that some package needed, so you could build amarok yourself (works, I tried it)
[23:10] <vinoman> trying Broadcom STA driver this time...
[23:10] <NoelJB> ActionParsnip, really?  the new database that is part of Ubuntu?
[23:10] <vinoman> how do you do that?
[23:10] <xcvsdfgh> ArkoldThos: PornView is an image and movie viewer/manager with thumbnail previews. Additional features includes thumbnail caching, directory tree views, adjustable zoom, and fullscreen view. Slideshows allow for unattended presentation of images for hands-free viewing. Pornview is written using GTK+.
[23:10] <ActionParsnip> NoelJB: database for what?
[23:10] <ArkoldThos> yofel, I prefer to wait sooner or later they will upload the newest since is a default package of kubuntu :D
[23:11] <yofel> kk
[23:11] <xcvsdfgh> ArkoldThos: I have to use both my hands on something else whilst using it.
[23:11] <xcvsdfgh> ArkoldThos: The first command I run on any computer I install Ubuntu on is 'sudo apt-get install pornview'
[23:12] <vinoman> STA did install. then it wants me to restart... won't that remove the driver? maybe I can't run wifi from live CD
[23:12] <ActionParsnip> !info pornview
[23:12] <joejc> what does speech-dispatcher do and do i need it to auto start?
[23:12] <ArkoldThos> i don't like gtk+ apps and i don't have many photos but thanks for explain what it is :D
[23:12] <NoelJB> ActionParsnip, apt-cache rdepends --recurse couchdb
[23:13] <xcvsdfgh> ArkoldThos: "hands-free" viewing. :)
[23:13] <ArkoldThos> hahaha
[23:13] <ArkoldThos> xd
[23:13] <xcvsdfgh> ArkoldThos: Because I have a massive penis and need to use both hands.
[23:13] <NoelJB> !ohmy
[23:14] <ActionParsnip> NoelJB: ok, I web browse and chat. Do I really need this thing?
[23:14] <Amaranth> bug 410407 is going to be fun
[23:14] <ActionParsnip> NoelJB: oh and play frets on fire
[23:14] <joejc> if you cant talk about an app why is it in the repos?
[23:14] <BUGabundo> thanks Pici
[23:14] <Pici> He was evading a ban.
[23:14] <BUGabundo> ha great :(
[23:14] <BUGabundo> douchbags
[23:14] <Amaranth> BUGabundo: ...
[23:15] <Pici> BUGabundo: Excuse me?
[23:15] <BUGabundo> Pici: for him to be evading bans
[23:15] <BUGabundo> some ppl really like to pull the fence
[23:15] <joejc> anyone know what speech-dispatcher does and if i need it to auto start?
[23:15] <NoelJB> ActionParsnip, at the least, it seems to be pulled in by evolution, which is standard.  but I believe it is used by more.
[23:16] <ActionParsnip> NoelJB: oh i see, i use that one
[23:16] <vinoman> also noticed that the touchpad doesn't work by tapping the pad. have to click the button. that also worked in 9.04
[23:16] <ActionParsnip> NoelJB: just trying to shrink my install :D
[23:16] <Amaranth> ActionParsnip: couchdb is used in evolution to sync with ubuntuone
[23:16] <joejc> !info speech-dispatcher
[23:17] <joejc> why does it auto start?
[23:17] <NoelJB> Amaranth, ah ... so *that's* the connection.  I was wondering why that hammer appeared in the dependency tree.
[23:17] <ActionParsnip> Amaranth: i dont use ubuntuone
[23:17] <joejc> anybody know?
[23:17] <Amaranth> ActionParsnip: so remove it :P
[23:18] <ActionParsnip> Amaranth: sweet, thanks
[23:18] <Amaranth> couchdb is also used for syncing firefox bookmarks with ubuntuone
[23:18] <Amaranth> There is a theme here :)
[23:18] <joejc> anybody have a guess?
[23:19] <Amaranth> joejc: you have accessibility enabled?
[23:19] <joejc> no
[23:19]  * Amaranth goes back to writing a new compiz decorator
[23:19] <NoelJB> Amaranth, mind you ubuntu-desktop depends on ubuntu one, and therefore on couchdb :-)
[23:20] <NoelJB> Amaranth, what kind of decorator?
[23:20] <Amaranth> NoelJB: But as we went over so throughly last night, you don't need ubuntu-desktop :)
[23:20] <Amaranth> NoelJB: just porting kde4-window-decorator to replace gtk-window-decorator for now
[23:20] <Amaranth> gtk-window-decorator is a mess
[23:21] <NoelJB> when will this new code appear?
[23:21] <Amaranth> Considering my track record so for with such things... 2020 or so
[23:22] <NoelJB> LOL
[23:22] <Amaranth> I want to do an SVG decorator too but getting the shadows and such right will be hard
[23:22] <Amaranth> shadows have to be straight lines
[23:26] <vinoman> I hope they fix the wifi by the final version...
[23:26] <joshposh> Does couchdb work for you with evolution? I just tried it and all Address Books with CouchDB seem to be taken from the same database.
[23:26] <NoelJB> vinoman: WIFI?
[23:27] <IDWMaster> US and Main archives are still slow. Is it at my end; or are the servers just full today?
[23:27] <joshposh> What is even more confusing: Nothing is written to the "Ubuntu One" directory.
[23:28] <ActionParsnip> wow I just found the most pointless package ever:
[23:28] <ActionParsnip> !info mobile-broadband-provider-info
[23:28] <Amaranth> ActionParsnip: not pointless
[23:28] <ActionParsnip> why?
[23:28] <Amaranth> ActionParsnip: Most people don't know their APN and such for GSM tethering
[23:29] <Amaranth> ActionParsnip: With that package you just have to choose a mobile provider and it fills it in for you
[23:29] <ActionParsnip> isnt it jsut a list of providers and ratings, how can I access this glorious list please?
[23:29] <ActionParsnip> oh i see
[23:29] <ActionParsnip> hmm, well thats going
[23:30] <NoelJB> Amaranth, do you know of any 30" display laptops?  (snarky reference to http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternative02)
[23:30] <ikt> what is with the boot splash
[23:30] <ikt> on small display it looks fine but anything above 20" and it looks horrible :/
[23:30] <ActionParsnip> wow and if you remove it it cripples network manager too
[23:31] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Interesting to see how they plan to integrate zeitgeist though. It didn't make sense to me before.
[23:32] <NoelJB> I wonder when this will drop into the Lucid alphas.
[23:32] <Amaranth> NoelJB: In universe, you mean?
[23:33] <perlsyntax_> where can i find the ubuntu 9.10 beta gnome dvd iso?
[23:33] <cmwslw> besides ext4, what new features will i not be able to have if i upgrade instead of reinstall?
[23:33] <Amaranth> There is no way we're using it in lucid
[23:33] <Amaranth> cmwslw: that's it
[23:33] <maco> perlsyntax_: cdimage.ubuntu.com like i just said in #ubuntu
[23:33] <NoelJB> Amaranth, oh right, Mark DID say that Lucid would be the best of Gnome *2*.
[23:33] <NoelJB> nevermind
[23:33] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Even worse, 2.0 :P
[23:33] <NoelJB> LOL
[23:33] <Amaranth> Which is probably why people thought he said 3.0
[23:33] <perlsyntax_> i know i just see it
[23:34] <perlsyntax_> Do they have perl 5.10.1 in it?
[23:34] <cmwslw> Aramanth: i thought stuff like pidgin would be kept instead of being upgraded to empathy
[23:35] <perlsyntax_> i like pidgin
[23:35] <NoelJB> Amaranth, gnome-shell is already in karmic universe
[23:35] <Amaranth> NoelJB: I know
[23:36] <Amaranth> !info perl
[23:36] <NoelJB> I might clone my karmic VM and install it just to see what it looks like.
[23:36] <Amaranth> perlsyntax_: Looks like 5.10.0
[23:36]  * BUGabundo likes pidgin more
[23:37] <perlsyntax_> it has python 2.6.2 or 2.6.3?
[23:37] <perlsyntax_> me to pidgin better
[23:37] <Amaranth> !info pidgin
[23:37] <Amaranth> 2.6.2 it is
[23:37] <perlsyntax_> i see
[23:37] <perlsyntax_> what for the gcc?
[23:37] <Amaranth> *facepalm*
[23:38] <Amaranth> perlsyntax_: http://packages.ubuntu.com
[23:39] <BUGabundo> Amaranth: python =! pidgin :)=
[23:40] <perlsyntax_> i think ubuntu got more package for python then sabayon linux
[23:40] <Amaranth> BUGabundo: No one has said python
[23:40] <Amaranth> oh, whoops
[23:40] <BUGabundo> LULZ
[23:40] <BUGabundo> (11:37:01 PM) perlsyntax_: it has python 2.6.2 or 2.6.3?
[23:41] <perlsyntax_> really
[23:41]  * Amaranth blames BUGabundo
[23:41] <mercutio22> About the lack of sound or text notification upon new message received in empathy, is there a workaround for the moment?
[23:41] <perlsyntax_> i want the pyton 2.6.3
[23:41] <perlsyntax_> python
[23:41] <perlsyntax_> i think it just a update
[23:41] <BUGabundo> I have 3.0
[23:41] <BUGabundo> :=)
[23:41] <perlsyntax_> cool
[23:41] <perlsyntax_> is python 3.0 slow?
[23:42] <perlsyntax_> that what i hear.
[23:42] <Amaranth> Technically every version of python is slow
[23:42] <BUGabundo> lolololol
[23:43] <perlsyntax_> i see
[23:43] <Pici> Python 3 is not fully backwards compatible with 2.x
[23:43] <Amaranth> s/fully/at all/
[23:44] <perlsyntax_> maybe i should try it out
[23:45] <BUGabundo> its not
[23:45] <perlsyntax_> i use netbeans for my python.
[23:47] <perlsyntax_> BUGabundo, you try out python 2.6.3?
[23:47] <BUGabundo> nope
[23:47] <BUGabundo> I just have it install
[23:47] <BUGabundo> just because I can :p
[23:47] <perlsyntax_> it that the stable one?
[23:47] <perlsyntax_> lol ok
[23:49] <perlsyntax_> man alot of people are download it.
[23:50] <perlsyntax_> what are the new tools on ubuntu 9.10
[23:52] <Pici> perlsyntax_: The beta link in the channel topic explains some of the new features
[23:53] <coz_> hey guys just installed karmic and noticed that constrain Y in compiz  disables itself...anyone else test this?
[23:56] <coz_> also notice that under Places, the Connect to server...Search for files..and Recent documents have no icons
[23:58] <TDJACR> Today's date and the next ubuntu version correspond.