[02:01] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, some other bugs have been filed and patched tonight that should probably be string freeze exceptions
[02:01] <Rocket2DMn> I'd send out an email, but I'm sure there will be more before the night is up
[11:00] <mdke> morning all
[11:00] <mdke> hi adiroiban
[11:01] <adiroiban> hi
[14:22] <slacker_nl> hello, could someone proof read the following: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkConfigurationCommandLine/Automatic I want to replace https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkConfigurationCommandLine with the new document
[16:03] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, in Karmic's Applications->Accessories menu, it displays "gedit Text Editor" which doesn't match our documentation
[16:03] <Rocket2DMn> I see bug 421221 for the initial issue, but it is marked as Fix Released since they changed it from "gedit" to "gedit Text Editor"
[16:03] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 421221 in gedit "menu entry says 'gedit' should say 'Text Editor'" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/421221
[16:04] <Rocket2DMn> However, there still seems to be some discussion upstream about how to properly handle it.  Should I open a new bug against ubuntu-docs, or should I open the task on that previous bug for ubuntu-docs?
[16:04] <Rocket2DMn> I'm hesitant to open an entirely new bug against gedit for it
[16:06] <Rocket2DMn> I guess I can ask in ubuntu-devel if they plan on fixing it
[16:43] <slacker_nl> hello, could someone proof read the following: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkConfigurationCommandLine/Automatic I want to replace https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkConfigurationCommandLine with the new document
[16:48] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: that sounds like a bug in gedit to me as the menu entry doesn't follow the HIG, I'd suggest asking ubuntu-desktop
[16:52] <Rocket2DMn> ok mdke , i'll ping them
[16:52] <Rocket2DMn> thanks
[16:55] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, another thing that occurred to me last night - do we currently format our xml files for consistency?  In the past I've seen files that varied from doc to doc
[16:56] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: no we don't - they definitely vary
[16:57] <Rocket2DMn> It would be really nice to get something like that, it shouldn't be all that difficult I think
[16:59] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, I'm not sure I really understand how the translations work when we do freeze exceptions or SRUs
[16:59] <mdke> yeah, I agree. Do you fancy looking into a tool that could do it reliably? I guess 'tidy' should do it, it has an xml function
[16:59] <Rocket2DMn> if a diff doesn't include text that needs to be retranslated, how does that still affect translators?
[16:59] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: but it *does* include text that needs to be retranslated
[17:00] <mdke> the original has changed, so the translators need to translate the new string
[17:00] <Rocket2DMn> but you said "The translators should leave them as they are, but changing the string
[17:00] <Rocket2DMn> will still require the translator to retranslate the string."
[17:00] <mdke> right, let me give you an example
[17:00] <Rocket2DMn> if they leave them as they are, what changes?
[17:01] <mdke> the string "ubuntu-restricted-extras includes flashplugin-nonfree" gets translated
[17:01] <mdke> in Italian that might be: "ubuntu-restricted-extra include flashplugin-nonfree"
[17:01] <mdke> then it changes to "ubuntu-restricted-extras includes flashplugin-installer"
[17:02] <mdke> that's a new string that doesn't yet have a translation, so it will appear as a new string to be translated
[17:02] <mdke> you can't use the existing translation, because it's different
[17:02] <mdke> not as clear as I'd hoped it would be :(
[17:03] <mdke> anyway, any change to a translateable string results in a new translation to be done
[17:03] <Rocket2DMn> you mean it just appears as a task for them?
[17:03] <mdke> it appears as an untranslated string
[17:03] <mdke> and if they don't translate it, it will appear in English
[17:03] <Rocket2DMn> ok, but what if no translation is ever required.  For example, here is part of the patch:

[17:04] <Rocket2DMn> tags are kept, so that leaves just "flashplugin-installer" which doesn't require translation
[17:04] <mdke> it may not require translation, but it is translatable
[17:05] <Rocket2DMn> ok, but if that were to appear "in english" in their translated docs, there is no visible effect
[17:05] <mdke> yes, that's true
[17:05] <Rocket2DMn> ok, so in Rosetta when a change is made to the branch, the adjusted lines appear as "needs translating" or something?
[17:06] <mdke> yes (although it's not the branch, it's the package that counts in our case)
[17:06] <mdke> in Rosetta it will show up as "1 string not translated" or something like that
[17:06] <mdke> you're right that it's not the end of the world, but the translators will have it on their task list and will do the work
[17:07] <Rocket2DMn> ok, i can see how we may not want to bother them with new tasks apearing like that after string freeze, but effectively it doesn't matter if they see it or not
[17:07] <mdke> you're quite right
[17:07] <Rocket2DMn> i don't have any strong opinion on the patch being included or not, I'm just trying to understand how it works
[17:07] <Rocket2DMn> I think I got the gist of it
[17:08] <mdke> yeah, you have
[17:08] <mdke> I think I was looking at it too rigidly, let's include the patch
[17:08] <Rocket2DMn> cool, thanks for explaining
[17:08] <mdke> I hadn't quite appreciated that the packagenames are the whole string, rather than just appearing in the middle of a string
[17:09] <Rocket2DMn> yeah, in this case they are just ina list
[17:10] <mdke> committed :)
[17:10] <Rocket2DMn> k
[17:10] <Rocket2DMn> As I predicted, more bugs appeared during the night :)
[17:11] <Rocket2DMn> I think we sorta dropped the ball on Grub2 documentation
[17:11] <mdke> yeah, these guys are good proof readers
[17:12] <mdke> ok, gtg to the gym, back later
[17:12] <Rocket2DMn> k, see ya
[18:21] <slacker_nl> stupic question perhaps, but how do i open .omf files?
[18:58] <mdke> slacker_nl: in a text editor
[18:59] <slacker_nl> mdke: yeah.. and then there is a pointer to some .xml file
[18:59] <mdke> slacker_nl: right.
[19:00] <slacker_nl> so how can i read somehlpfile.omf and read the actual helpfile?
[19:02] <mdke> slacker_nl: you just read the xml file
[19:14] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I read the gedit upstream bug you referred to - it looks pretty much like upstream is determined to have the menu entries inconsistent and unpleasant to look at... so I guess we should apply your patch to ubuntu-docs
[19:40] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, it would be nice if the desktop team could confirm that they aren't going to override the change
[20:28] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: yeah, worth asking them
[21:12] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: will upload shortly - any bugs I've missed out committing that you can see?
[21:15] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, ill have a look
[21:17] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, i think that's all for now in the dev branch
[21:17] <Rocket2DMn> there are some SRUs laying around still though
[21:21] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: yeah :(