| === highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage | ||
| BronzeAu | Howdy. | 09:42 |
|---|---|---|
| BronzeAu | :-D | 09:42 |
| BronzeAu | Anyone around? | 09:42 |
| alkisg | Hi | 09:42 |
| BronzeAu | How the day treating you? | 09:43 |
| alkisg | ok... | 09:43 |
| BronzeAu | Thats good. | 09:43 |
| BronzeAu | I'm just having a look around. I'm new to IRC | 09:44 |
| alkisg | Welcome :) | 09:44 |
| BronzeAu | Been using Ubuntu for a while now though. Since Breezy. Downloading edubuntu atm. Time for a change. | 09:44 |
| BronzeAu | Thanks for you welcome. Is this a very active channel? | 09:45 |
| alkisg | Not on weekends... on weekdays there is some noice, but again not much | 09:45 |
| BronzeAu | Can you answer a small question for me perhaps? | 09:46 |
| alkisg | !ask | 09:47 |
| ubottu | Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) | 09:47 |
| BronzeAu | Ok. Like I said. I'm new. Sorry. | 09:48 |
| BronzeAu | Is the difference between Ubuntu and Edubuntu just the packaged software that comes with? | 09:48 |
| alkisg | In jaunty, edubuntu is a meta-package to easily install some software. In Karmic, it comes as an installation DVD. | 09:49 |
| BronzeAu | So. If I'm reading you right. Essentially both packages are the same but the software (apps) are different. | 09:51 |
| alkisg | Yes; e.g. you can start with an Ubuntu installation and just install the edubuntu packages. | 09:52 |
| BronzeAu | So I could down load Ubuntu, add Edubuntu apps and call it Edubuntu and really there would be no difference. | 09:52 |
| alkisg | Yes | 09:52 |
| BronzeAu | Ok, cool. Thank you for your help. I'm sure you get much harder questions than that from time to time. | 09:52 |
| alkisg | Heh :) Don't worry, feel free to ask anything you want. | 09:53 |
| BronzeAu | I'm in Australia. East coast. It's cold and raining. Just become dark. No I cannot see kangaroos out my window. Where are you? | 09:53 |
| alkisg | In the other side of the world :) | 09:54 |
| alkisg | Greece - it's 11:54 am here | 09:54 |
| BronzeAu | Never been to Greece. One day maybe. | 09:59 |
| BronzeAu | Beautiful weather I hear. Warm, sunny and generally not to hot. | 10:00 |
| BronzeAu | So, for you - Why Edubuntu? | 10:00 |
| alkisg | We were planning on coming to Australia for some years, but we had problems with the kids - the school year started 6 months later than us, so they'd loose a year in school... | 10:00 |
| BronzeAu | Are you a teacher? | 10:00 |
| alkisg | Yes | 10:00 |
| BronzeAu | Same. | 10:01 |
| BronzeAu | What do you teach? | 10:01 |
| alkisg | Computer classes :) | 10:01 |
| BronzeAu | He he - I teach HSIE which stands for Human Society and its Environment. Essentially Geography and History among other subjects like Aboriginal Studies, Commerce, Legal Studies & Business Studies. | 10:02 |
| BronzeAu | I'm resurecting an old computer with Edubuntu for my classroom. Had Ubuntu on it for years though. | 10:03 |
| BronzeAu | In a staff or 56 at our school (Years 7-10) me and one other teacher are the only ones that are computer literate. The school I'm at dosen't even have Computer Studies. | 10:04 |
| alkisg | Wow... and do you have a sysadmin employed there? Who takes care of your PCs? | 10:04 |
| BronzeAu | We had one. Gone. | 10:05 |
| alkisg | Nice :) Good luck! | 10:06 |
| BronzeAu | Now we have what is called a TSO. Technical Systems Officer who does software. The other staff member I mentioned does hardware. I run the Moodle. | 10:06 |
| BronzeAu | We have just had a laptop roll out of 20,000 computer to all of year 9 across the state so the TSO is for them really. | 10:07 |
| BronzeAu | They are all baby notebooks. $700 each with $5200 of software. | 10:07 |
| alkisg | In Greece they gave out netbooks to all 12 y.o. students... | 10:08 |
| alkisg | ..but they're dual boot with ubuntu and no office, so not much spent on software | 10:08 |
| BronzeAu | Since most teachers are computer illiterate (nearly retiring) so I've installed Moodle to ease the burden on the staff face to face tech lessons. | 10:08 |
| BronzeAu | I see. Great for Ubuntu but youneed the software. | 10:09 |
| BronzeAu | These little notepads have 6.5 hour batt life and are Windows 7. Fully locked and remotely administered via wireless. | 10:10 |
| alkisg | How are they administrered? E.g. what do you do if you want to install the new acrobat reader in 20000 laptops? | 10:11 |
| BronzeAu | All via the proxy. They are all filtered and no software can be installed by the student whatsoever. | 10:12 |
| BronzeAu | http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,26111035-15306,00.html | 10:12 |
| BronzeAu | You can't even get into the bios. Each one has a tracker inserted so they can't be sold. Accurate to 5meters. Pretty cool but very big brother too. | 10:13 |
| alkisg | OK, but how is new software installed? | 10:13 |
| BronzeAu | It's automatically uploaded / downloaded via the proxy when instructed by the department. | 10:14 |
| BronzeAu | By the end of the year they will have issued 65,000 of these things. I have one. It's ok. Can't handle video through the projector. I nearly killed it in its first month. | 10:15 |
| alkisg | I'd like to know how that is done technically. I don't know of any way to do that PROPERLY in windows - and using WSUS in 20.000 PCs sounds like a nightmare to me. | 10:15 |
| BronzeAu | It has a prompt that comes up just telling you what its doing. You can say ok or cancel. | 10:16 |
| alkisg | Sure, I mean the sysadmin-side of the story... | 10:16 |
| BronzeAu | If you choose cancel it will just do it automatically on the next reboot. | 10:16 |
| BronzeAu | Yeah - do not know and for obvious reasons I guess there keeping it all secret too. | 10:17 |
| BronzeAu | Essentially each laptop is like a slave and the proxy is the server. Although students can access the net at home its only via the detmsw proxy and is so filtered as such. | 10:18 |
| === highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage | ||
| === pleia2_ is now known as pleia2 | ||
| julienrat | bonjour | 14:13 |
| HedgeMage | helo | 14:16 |
| HedgeMage | *hello | 14:16 |
| julienrat | y a t-il quelqu'un de chez scideralle ? | 14:17 |
| LaserJock | morning | 15:06 |
| dgroos | Good morning LaserJock | 15:06 |
| dgroos | how goes? | 15:06 |
| LaserJock | pretty good | 15:08 |
| LaserJock | dgroos: how are you doing? | 15:10 |
| LaserJock | dgroos: the lab going pretty smoothly? | 15:11 |
| dgroos | Well, students coming in any moment and need to finish the demo, "triple bubble map": http://cmap.mpls.k12.mn.us/servlet/SBReadResourceServlet?rid=1GLSQ92NQ-1683NSR-BW&partName=htmltext | 15:11 |
| dgroos | and yes indeed, it is :) | 15:11 |
| dgroos | I'm trying to get the server cloned so the other classes can get up and running as well. | 15:12 |
| dgroos | LaserJock: take it easy. | 15:12 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage, stgraber: ping | 15:16 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: pong | 15:16 |
| alkisg | dgroos: need any help with the cloning thing? | 16:09 |
| dgroos | alkisg: Hi and thanks for asking | 16:35 |
| alkisg | Hey... I saw you mails in the list, and thought I'd save you from some suffering, if i can... :) | 16:36 |
| dgroos | Thanks--students just came in (I was between class...) I'll get back... | 16:36 |
| alkisg | np | 16:37 |
| stgraber | alkisg: ping | 16:41 |
| alkisg | Hey stgraber | 16:41 |
| * alkisg is trying to create nice looking menus for ltsp clients: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/pxeboot.png | 16:41 | |
| stgraber | +xprop -root -f ICA_PORT 16c -set ICA_PORT $ISDPORT ica -noshm -isdport $ISDPORT -ivsport $IVSPORT -role $ROLE 2> /dev/zero | 16:42 |
| stgraber | +xprop -root -remove ICA_PORT | 16:42 |
| stgraber | not sure about that -remove part | 16:42 |
| stgraber | why are you seeting ICA_PORT to unset it just afterwards ? | 16:43 |
| stgraber | (or I'm missing something about what -remove does) | 16:43 |
| alkisg | I'm unsetting it when the client ica dies, don't i? | 16:43 |
| * alkisg looks at the source... | 16:43 | |
| stgraber | oh, that may well be the case ;) | 16:44 |
| alkisg | Heh :) | 16:44 |
| stgraber | indeed ;) | 16:44 |
| stgraber | makes sense suddenly | 16:44 |
| alkisg | stgraber: I got many, many ica-crashes with standalone clients.. :( | 16:44 |
| alkisg | (not related to the launcher code) | 16:44 |
| alkisg | I start projecting my screen on 12 clients, and after 30 seconds, 10 of them hang! | 16:45 |
| stgraber | that's weird, in my case it was mostly ivs crashing but I fixed that a while ago with the auto-restart code | 16:45 |
| alkisg | How should I try to debug this? | 16:45 |
| stgraber | would be interesting to see if ica is completely dead or half-alive | 16:47 |
| alkisg | I think it's defunct | 16:48 |
| stgraber | if it's completely dead (no more ica process), then it could be interesting to attach a gdb on it before starting it | 16:48 |
| stgraber | if it's half-alive, trying to strace it and attach gdb might help | 16:48 |
| dgroos | firedrill... | 16:48 |
| alkisg | Ughm, I'll need reading for that, I've done most of my debugging with visual studio and delphi :( | 16:48 |
| alkisg | k, ty | 16:49 |
| alkisg | dgroos: Heh, get the server out for practice! :) | 16:49 |
| stgraber | I'm uploading your changes now, then will give it a try with LTSP-Cluster as I run, just to make sure it still works ;) | 16:51 |
| dgroos | alkisg: ah... can you tell me the chmod command to get the italc to be rwxr-xr-x? | 16:51 |
| alkisg | dgroos: http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Installation#Setup_authentication_keys | 16:52 |
| alkisg | stgraber: it would be better if you did this the other way around!!! :D | 16:53 |
| alkisg | dgroos: ah, sorry, you mean the launcher? sudo chmod +x <launcher> | 16:53 |
| stgraber | well, looking at the code, I'm pretty confident it'll work :) | 16:53 |
| alkisg | Hope so... | 16:54 |
| alkisg | stgraber: ah, I forgot to ask about what I told you in the mail: it'd be nice if we also included an "don't use autodetection" flag for italc-launcher (I've done this only for ica-launcher). Should I go ahead an parse /etc/italc/italc.conf from python? | 17:04 |
| === alkisg is now known as alkisg_bbl | ||
| stgraber | alkisg_bbl: yeah, please do | 18:18 |
| === alkisg_bbl is now known as alkisg | ||
| alkisg | stgraber: ok, if you didn't upload yet you may want to wait :) | 18:21 |
| stgraber | alkisg: it's already uploaded ;) | 18:22 |
| alkisg | Uh :) I'll use http://docs.python.org/library/configparser.html is that ok? | 18:22 |
| alkisg | (it's in python2.6-minimal...) | 18:24 |
| stgraber | I need it to work starting with pytohn 2.4 | 18:30 |
| stgraber | *python | 18:30 |
| alkisg | Is that there? /me has no clue... | 18:30 |
| stgraber | no idea | 18:30 |
| stgraber | I'd go with something ugly but compatible like | 18:31 |
| alkisg | Yup, I think it is | 18:31 |
| alkisg | http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.4/python/lib/module-ConfigParser.html | 18:31 |
| stgraber | right, but you italc.conf is a shell file (containing shell variables), not ini ? | 18:31 |
| alkisg | Sure, but I think that's a subset, isn't it? | 18:32 |
| alkisg | I.e. only the default section | 18:32 |
| alkisg | I could also parse it 'manually', or even execute it and read the environment variables, but I think the configparser looks more elegant... | 18:33 |
| nubae | hi folks... | 19:00 |
| nubae | alkisg, whatcha trying to do? | 19:00 |
| alkisg | Hi nubae | 19:00 |
| alkisg | I sent a small patch for italc to avoid ports in use, and I wanna send another one for it to not autodetect clients | 19:01 |
| alkisg | I got it in a one-liner :): no_autodetection=subprocess.Popen(["sh", "-c", ". /etc/italc/italc.conf >/dev/null 2>&1 && echo $NO_AUTODETECTION"], stdout=subprocess.PIPE).communicate()[0].strip().upper() in ["TRUE", "T", "1"] | 19:02 |
| nubae | mailing list is getting kinda heated... though I guess I'm partly to blame :-) | 19:02 |
| nubae | hehe... nice one | 19:02 |
| alkisg | Could someone suggest better names for the conf variables? One for DONT_PUBLISH_TO_AVAHI, and another one for DONT_USE_AVAHI_FOR_AUTODETECTION? :D | 19:03 |
| nubae | I've been drowning my brain in DBus and telepathy | 19:03 |
| * nubae never realised what an amazingly powerful and approachable framework dbus really was | 19:04 | |
| nubae | hmmm.... dont publish what? | 19:05 |
| nubae | IP I guess u mean | 19:05 |
| alkisg | Yeah, don't publish the ica service (=ip) to the avahi daemon | 19:06 |
| nubae | u know, u could probably switch off autodection of ips via dbus :p | 19:06 |
| alkisg | Ah, I think I got it. (1) ADVERTISE_CLIENT (default true) and (2) AUTODETECT_CLIENTS (default true). stgraber, do you mind if I change the variable name that I sent in the older ica-launcher? | 19:08 |
| nubae | this little howto was really awsome: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2007/09/using-the-tomboy-d-bus-interface.ars | 19:08 |
| drGspot | has anyone tried to export edubuntu packages to other distros...? ex with woof in puppy..? | 19:21 |
| stgraber | alkisg: I guess I can still change it, people didn't get used to it ;) | 19:22 |
| alkisg | Nice :) | 19:22 |
| nubae | alkisg, how do I write your last name? | 19:24 |
| alkisg | Georgopoulos Γεωργόπουλος | 19:24 |
| alkisg | Why? | 19:24 |
| nubae | I'm responding to the latest email from Scott Belford... who mentions Vagrant C as being involved with debian edu and somehow edubuntu being a re-marketed copy of it... | 19:25 |
| alkisg | Ugh, I didn't read that one yet... :-/ | 19:25 |
| nubae | u've probably read it... anyway, thought I'd mention the real people behind edubuntu... | 19:25 |
| nubae | absolutely crazy... its no wonder people are misinformed | 19:26 |
| nubae | hah... gotta love my response... though I'm not gonna let it take any more of my time... | 19:30 |
| nubae | he is vagrant's #1 fan apparently... I wonder what specifically caused that... | 19:31 |
| alkisg | stgraber: done, and mail sent. | 19:55 |
| === alkisg is now known as alkisg1 | ||
| === alkisg1 is now known as alkisg | ||
| nubae | well, traffic on the mailing list is a good thing I guess... hopefully more voices are raised... | 21:50 |
| sbalneav | Cripes. Been sick for a week. | 21:51 |
| sbalneav | I come back to this sh*t. | 21:51 |
| sbalneav | So, I can't figure out. Is R. Scott Belford mad at me? | 21:51 |
| sbalneav | nubae: He's vagrant's #1 fan because vagrant is LTSP's maintainer in Debian. | 21:52 |
| sbalneav | I'm vagrant's #1 fan as well, but vagrant works at FreeGeek. His *job* is partially maintaining their LTSP infrastructure. He can work on fixing LTSP problems all day. | 21:53 |
| CAN-o-SPAM | Looks like a bunch of wasted energy to me | 21:58 |
| nubae | heh, it seems he's mad at everyone | 22:06 |
| nubae | I just got a personal email from him telling me how he was so dissapointed in me | 22:06 |
| nubae | that he thought I was more mature :-) | 22:06 |
| nubae | thing about Vagrant is, Scott seems to think he is somehow the main debian-edu developer, and that somehow that makes him the main edubuntu man... | 22:07 |
| nubae | I dunno... its confused me now too... | 22:07 |
| sbalneav | What I have to laugh about is how QUICKLY everyone seems to think things can "get fixed" | 22:08 |
| sbalneav | We've made a concerted effort to get some long standing issues resolved: | 22:08 |
| nubae | All I did was try to set the record straight a bit, but I guess maybe I got too personal... I appologize for that | 22:08 |
| nubae | right... the minute something doesnt go their way, its time to jump ship | 22:09 |
| nubae | and I guess its just this has happened so many times before, we aren't surprised to see it happen anymore | 22:09 |
| sbalneav | 1) LaserJock, even though he was MOVING and GETTING A NEW JOB, managed to get the seeds so that edubuntu's a distro again. | 22:09 |
| sbalneav | 2) I've spent 3 months working on JUST getting Sabayon into a workable state. | 22:10 |
| nubae | there is a slight indifference on our part (those that have been around for a little longer) and perhaps we should try to address that indifference | 22:10 |
| sbalneav | Now I'm working on the handbook. | 22:10 |
| nubae | right... thats why I thought it right to mention people actually working on edubuntu... | 22:10 |
| sbalneav | Well, I think there has to be some realism. We have no *real* backing from Canonical, other than the naming and hosting of the site. Theres only a small number of people working on edubuntu, and NONE of us are full time. | 22:11 |
| nubae | what I mean is, it looks like the perceived indifference is either intimidating or seems like we are purposely being secretive... | 22:11 |
| nubae | yeah... well all this came from Ace 'leaving the community' | 22:12 |
| nubae | he wrote me a personal email stating that it was one particular person's fault, though he wouldnt mention who | 22:13 |
| dgroos | Hi again | 22:36 |
| === dgroos_ is now known as dgroos | ||
| dgroos | so still working on getting cloned server on the network... and respectin' it. | 22:39 |
| dgroos | Took down lots of stuff at the school today--my name was mud. | 22:40 |
| dgroos | anyway, I'm working on isolating the problem and can see that the 2 nics are confused, the nic for the wan is spewing out ip addresses. | 22:41 |
| dgroos | Can I just go into /etc/network/interfaces and *do something*? | 22:43 |
| Ahmuck | dgroos: yes | 22:45 |
| Ahmuck | explain your situation | 22:45 |
| Ahmuck | this is something i just recently solved myself | 22:46 |
| Ahmuck | dgroos: ? | 22:46 |
| dgroos | Ahumck:! | 22:46 |
| dgroos | how are you? | 22:47 |
| dgroos | and, how's your technology treating you? | 22:47 |
| dgroos | Well, my 2 nics are backwards, the giga nic is not giving addresses via dhcp which it needs to do to the clients. | 22:49 |
| dgroos | Instead, the 100 MB nic is handing them out (which caused things on the network here at the school to go down). | 22:50 |
| dgroos | Ahumck:? | 22:50 |
| Ahmuck | . | 22:53 |
| dgroos | Ahmuck: Hello | 22:53 |
| === dgroos_ is now known as dgroos | ||
| Ahmuck | ok, so you need to switch things around | 23:05 |
| Ahmuck | /etc/network/interfaces | 23:05 |
| dgroos | yes indeed | 23:05 |
| Ahmuck | and /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf | 23:05 |
| Ahmuck | so post them pastebin | 23:05 |
| Ahmuck | morever, you also need to be aware that your going to have to physically change the wire on the back of the server i suspect | 23:05 |
| dgroos | OK ubuntu.pastbin is it? | 23:05 |
| Ahmuck | pastbin.be or whatever you want to use | 23:06 |
| dgroos | OK I'm in this deafening server room right now, am moving cables... | 23:06 |
| dgroos | why will I need to change wires? | 23:07 |
| Ahmuck | well, i assume that eth0 is incoming, via from the school network and/or internet and eth1 is the thin client side which you have isolated | 23:07 |
| dgroos | hmmm... just realized that I can't really do the pastebin thing since I daren't connect this server to the building network yet and risk bringing things down again. Another way? | 23:08 |
| dgroos | The way I've got things set up on my "other server" is eth1 goes to building and eth0 goes to my lan. | 23:09 |
| Ahmuck | post it in an e-mail | 23:10 |
| Ahmuck | put it on a usb key and then move it and pastebin it | 23:10 |
| dgroos | I'll see if it works! | 23:10 |
| dgroos | Here's ../interfaces: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/286564/ | 23:17 |
| Ahmuck | dgroos: so there swaped? | 23:19 |
| Ahmuck | they are ? | 23:19 |
| dgroos | And here's the dhcpd: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/286566/ | 23:19 |
| dgroos | Yes, that's the problem. I've tried a few things but kinda guess and check strategy. | 23:20 |
| Ahmuck | so if you swap eth1 and eth0 in the inteface file, did that fix it? | 23:21 |
| dgroos | Right, I tried that and when I tried to reboot the network it said: (I've got to do it again to get the error message) | 23:22 |
| dgroos | "* Reconfiguring network interfaces... | 23:23 |
| dgroos | RTNETLINK answers: No such process | 23:23 |
| dgroos | *if-up.d/mountnfs[eth0]: waiting for interface eth1 before doing NFS mounts" | 23:24 |
| Ahmuck | yes, mine does the same, however it works | 23:29 |
| Ahmuck | does yours? | 23:29 |
| dgroos | OK I'll check | 23:30 |
| dgroos | Well, the nic that needs to go to the WAN is still giving out ip address, the other nic is not providing them. | 23:31 |
| dgroos | The previous results I posted were actually not when I changed the eth0 and eth1 in /etc/network/interfaces sorry for confusion. | 23:34 |
| dgroos | Here are the results when trying to reboot after switching in .../interfaces: | 23:35 |
| dgroos | * Reconfiguring network interfaces... | 23:35 |
| dgroos | RTNETLINK answers: No such process | 23:35 |
| dgroos | SIOCDELRT: No such process | 23:36 |
| dgroos | * if-up.d/mountnfs[eth1]: waiting for interface eth0 before doing NFS mounts. | 23:36 |
| Ahmuck | swaping interfaces prolly means your going to have to restart dhcpd | 23:37 |
| Ahmuck | but, i'm a nubie | 23:37 |
| dgroos | OK know how to do that? | 23:37 |
| dgroos | I'm game! | 23:38 |
| dgroos | sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart it is... | 23:43 |
| dgroos | Ahmuck: Thanks for working on this networking issue with me. I've got to head home for the day. I'll post the question to the list-server on the thread that is steadily growing. | 23:52 |
| dgroos | Ahmuck: Have a good evening! | 23:54 |
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