[09:42] <BronzeAu> Howdy.
[09:42] <BronzeAu> :-D
[09:42] <BronzeAu> Anyone around?
[09:42] <alkisg> Hi
[09:43] <BronzeAu> How the day treating you?
[09:43] <alkisg> ok...
[09:43] <BronzeAu> Thats good.
[09:44] <BronzeAu> I'm just having a look around. I'm new to IRC
[09:44] <alkisg> Welcome :)
[09:44] <BronzeAu> Been using Ubuntu for a while now though. Since Breezy. Downloading edubuntu atm. Time for a change.
[09:45] <BronzeAu> Thanks for you welcome. Is this a very active channel?
[09:45] <alkisg> Not on weekends... on weekdays there is some noice, but again not much
[09:46] <BronzeAu> Can you answer a small question for me perhaps?
[09:47] <alkisg> !ask
[09:48] <BronzeAu> Ok. Like I said. I'm new. Sorry.
[09:48] <BronzeAu> Is the difference between Ubuntu and Edubuntu just the packaged software that comes with?
[09:49] <alkisg> In jaunty, edubuntu is a meta-package to easily install some software. In Karmic, it comes as an installation DVD.
[09:51] <BronzeAu> So. If I'm reading you right. Essentially both packages are the same but the software (apps) are different.
[09:52] <alkisg> Yes; e.g. you can start with an Ubuntu installation and just install the edubuntu packages.
[09:52] <BronzeAu> So I could down load Ubuntu, add Edubuntu apps and call it Edubuntu and really there would be no difference.
[09:52] <alkisg> Yes
[09:52] <BronzeAu> Ok, cool. Thank you for your help. I'm sure you get much harder questions than that from time to time.
[09:53] <alkisg> Heh :) Don't worry, feel free to ask anything you want.
[09:53] <BronzeAu> I'm in Australia. East coast. It's cold and raining. Just become dark. No I cannot see kangaroos out my window. Where are you?
[09:54] <alkisg> In the other side of the world :)
[09:54] <alkisg> Greece - it's 11:54 am here
[09:59] <BronzeAu> Never been to Greece. One day maybe.
[10:00] <BronzeAu> Beautiful weather I hear. Warm, sunny and generally not to hot.
[10:00] <BronzeAu> So, for you - Why Edubuntu?
[10:00] <alkisg> We were planning on coming to Australia for some years, but we had problems with the kids - the school year started 6 months later than us, so they'd loose a year in school...
[10:00] <BronzeAu> Are you a teacher?
[10:00] <alkisg> Yes
[10:01] <BronzeAu> Same.
[10:01] <BronzeAu> What do you teach?
[10:01] <alkisg> Computer classes :)
[10:02] <BronzeAu> He he - I teach HSIE which stands for Human Society and its Environment. Essentially Geography and History among other subjects like Aboriginal Studies, Commerce, Legal Studies & Business Studies.
[10:03] <BronzeAu> I'm resurecting an old computer with Edubuntu for my classroom. Had Ubuntu on it for years though.
[10:04] <BronzeAu> In a staff or 56 at our school (Years 7-10) me and one other teacher are the only ones that are computer literate. The school I'm at dosen't even have Computer Studies.
[10:04] <alkisg> Wow... and do you have a sysadmin employed there? Who takes care of your PCs?
[10:05] <BronzeAu> We had one. Gone.
[10:06] <alkisg> Nice :) Good luck!
[10:06] <BronzeAu> Now we have what is called a TSO. Technical Systems Officer who does software. The other staff member I mentioned does hardware. I run the Moodle.
[10:07] <BronzeAu> We have just had a laptop roll out of 20,000 computer to all of year 9 across the state so the TSO is for them really.
[10:07] <BronzeAu> They are all baby notebooks. $700 each with $5200 of software.
[10:08] <alkisg> In Greece they gave out netbooks to all 12 y.o. students...
[10:08] <alkisg> ..but they're dual boot with ubuntu and no office, so not much spent on software
[10:08] <BronzeAu> Since most teachers are computer illiterate (nearly retiring) so I've installed Moodle to ease the burden on the staff face to face tech lessons.
[10:09] <BronzeAu> I see. Great for Ubuntu but youneed the software.
[10:10] <BronzeAu> These little notepads have 6.5 hour batt life and are Windows 7. Fully locked and remotely administered via wireless.
[10:11] <alkisg> How are they administrered? E.g. what do you do if you want to install the new acrobat reader in 20000 laptops?
[10:12] <BronzeAu> All via the proxy. They are all filtered and no software can be installed by the student whatsoever.
[10:12] <BronzeAu> http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,26111035-15306,00.html
[10:13] <BronzeAu> You can't even get into the bios. Each one has a tracker inserted so they can't be sold. Accurate to 5meters. Pretty cool but very big brother too.
[10:13] <alkisg> OK, but how is new software installed?
[10:14] <BronzeAu> It's automatically uploaded / downloaded via the proxy when instructed by the department.
[10:15] <BronzeAu> By the end of the year they will have issued 65,000 of these things. I have one. It's ok. Can't handle video through the projector. I nearly killed it in its first month.
[10:15] <alkisg> I'd like to know how that is done technically. I don't know of any way to do that PROPERLY in windows - and using WSUS in 20.000 PCs sounds like a nightmare to me.
[10:16] <BronzeAu> It has a prompt that comes up just telling you what its doing. You can say ok or cancel.
[10:16] <alkisg> Sure, I mean the sysadmin-side of the story...
[10:16] <BronzeAu> If you choose cancel it will just do it automatically on the next reboot.
[10:17] <BronzeAu> Yeah - do not know and for obvious reasons I guess there keeping it all secret too.
[10:18] <BronzeAu> Essentially each laptop is like a slave and the proxy is the server. Although students can access the net at home its only via the detmsw proxy and is so filtered as such.
[14:13] <julienrat> bonjour
[14:16] <HedgeMage> helo
[14:16] <HedgeMage> *hello
[14:17] <julienrat> y a t-il quelqu'un de chez scideralle ?
[15:06] <LaserJock> morning
[15:06] <dgroos> Good morning LaserJock
[15:06] <dgroos> how goes?
[15:08] <LaserJock> pretty good
[15:10] <LaserJock> dgroos: how are you doing?
[15:11] <LaserJock> dgroos: the lab going pretty smoothly?
[15:11] <dgroos> Well, students coming in any moment and need to finish the demo, "triple bubble map": http://cmap.mpls.k12.mn.us/servlet/SBReadResourceServlet?rid=1GLSQ92NQ-1683NSR-BW&partName=htmltext
[15:11] <dgroos> and yes indeed, it is :)
[15:12] <dgroos> I'm trying to get the server cloned so the other classes can get up and running as well.
[15:12] <dgroos> LaserJock: take it easy.
[15:16] <LaserJock> highvoltage, stgraber: ping
[15:16] <highvoltage> LaserJock: pong
[16:09] <alkisg> dgroos: need any help with the cloning thing?
[16:35] <dgroos> alkisg: Hi and thanks for asking
[16:36] <alkisg> Hey... I saw you mails in the list, and thought I'd save you from some suffering, if i can... :)
[16:36] <dgroos> Thanks--students just came in (I was between class...) I'll get back...
[16:37] <alkisg> np
[16:41] <stgraber> alkisg: ping
[16:41] <alkisg> Hey stgraber
[16:41]  * alkisg is trying to create nice looking menus for ltsp clients: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/pxeboot.png
[16:42] <stgraber> +xprop -root -f ICA_PORT 16c -set ICA_PORT $ISDPORT ica -noshm -isdport $ISDPORT -ivsport $IVSPORT -role $ROLE 2> /dev/zero
[16:42] <stgraber> +xprop -root -remove ICA_PORT
[16:42] <stgraber> not sure about that -remove part
[16:43] <stgraber> why are you seeting ICA_PORT to unset it just afterwards ?
[16:43] <stgraber> (or I'm missing something about what -remove does)
[16:43] <alkisg> I'm unsetting it when the client ica dies, don't i?
[16:43]  * alkisg looks at the source...
[16:44] <stgraber> oh, that may well be the case ;)
[16:44] <alkisg> Heh :)
[16:44] <stgraber> indeed ;)
[16:44] <stgraber> makes sense suddenly
[16:44] <alkisg> stgraber: I got many, many ica-crashes with standalone clients.. :(
[16:44] <alkisg> (not related to the launcher code)
[16:45] <alkisg> I start projecting my screen on 12 clients, and after 30 seconds, 10 of  them hang!
[16:45] <stgraber> that's weird, in my case it was mostly ivs crashing but I fixed that a while ago with the auto-restart code
[16:45] <alkisg> How should I try to debug this?
[16:47] <stgraber> would be interesting to see if ica is completely dead or half-alive
[16:48] <alkisg> I think it's defunct
[16:48] <stgraber> if it's completely dead (no more ica process), then it could be interesting to attach a gdb on it before starting it
[16:48] <stgraber> if it's half-alive, trying to strace it and attach gdb might help
[16:48] <dgroos> firedrill...
[16:48] <alkisg> Ughm, I'll need reading for that, I've done most of my debugging with visual studio and delphi :(
[16:49] <alkisg> k, ty
[16:49] <alkisg> dgroos: Heh, get the server out for practice! :)
[16:51] <stgraber> I'm uploading your changes now, then will give it a try with LTSP-Cluster as I run, just to make sure it still works ;)
[16:51] <dgroos> alkisg: ah...  can you tell me the chmod command to get the italc to be rwxr-xr-x?
[16:52] <alkisg> dgroos: http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Installation#Setup_authentication_keys
[16:53] <alkisg> stgraber: it would be better if you did this the other way around!!! :D
[16:53] <alkisg> dgroos: ah, sorry, you mean the launcher? sudo chmod +x <launcher>
[16:53] <stgraber> well, looking at the code, I'm pretty confident it'll work :)
[16:54] <alkisg> Hope so...
[17:04] <alkisg> stgraber: ah, I forgot to ask about what I told you in the mail: it'd be nice if we also included an "don't use autodetection" flag for italc-launcher (I've done this only for ica-launcher). Should I go ahead an parse /etc/italc/italc.conf from python?
[18:18] <stgraber> alkisg_bbl: yeah, please do
[18:21] <alkisg> stgraber: ok, if you didn't upload yet you may want to wait :)
[18:22] <stgraber> alkisg: it's already uploaded ;)
[18:22] <alkisg> Uh  :) I'll use http://docs.python.org/library/configparser.html is that ok?
[18:24] <alkisg> (it's in python2.6-minimal...)
[18:30] <stgraber> I need it to work starting with pytohn 2.4
[18:30] <stgraber> *python
[18:30] <alkisg> Is that there? /me has no clue...
[18:30] <stgraber> no idea
[18:31] <stgraber> I'd go with something ugly but compatible like
[18:31] <alkisg> Yup, I think it is
[18:31] <alkisg> http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.4/python/lib/module-ConfigParser.html
[18:31] <stgraber> right, but you italc.conf is a shell file (containing shell variables), not ini ?
[18:32] <alkisg> Sure, but I think that's a subset, isn't it?
[18:32] <alkisg> I.e. only the default section
[18:33] <alkisg> I could also parse it 'manually', or even execute it and read the environment variables, but I think the configparser looks more elegant...
[19:00] <nubae> hi folks...
[19:00] <nubae> alkisg, whatcha trying to do?
[19:00] <alkisg> Hi nubae
[19:01] <alkisg> I sent a small patch for italc to avoid ports in use, and I wanna send another one for it to not autodetect clients
[19:02] <alkisg> I got it in a one-liner :): no_autodetection=subprocess.Popen(["sh", "-c", ". /etc/italc/italc.conf >/dev/null 2>&1 && echo $NO_AUTODETECTION"], stdout=subprocess.PIPE).communicate()[0].strip().upper() in ["TRUE", "T", "1"]
[19:02] <nubae> mailing list is getting kinda heated... though I guess I'm partly to blame :-)
[19:02] <nubae> hehe... nice one
[19:03] <alkisg> Could someone suggest better names for the conf variables? One for DONT_PUBLISH_TO_AVAHI, and another one for DONT_USE_AVAHI_FOR_AUTODETECTION? :D
[19:03] <nubae> I've been drowning my brain in DBus and telepathy
[19:04]  * nubae never realised what an amazingly powerful and approachable framework dbus really was
[19:05] <nubae> hmmm.... dont publish what?
[19:05] <nubae> IP I guess u mean
[19:06] <alkisg> Yeah, don't publish the ica service (=ip) to the avahi daemon
[19:06] <nubae> u know, u could probably switch off autodection of ips via dbus :p
[19:08] <alkisg> Ah, I think I got it. (1) ADVERTISE_CLIENT (default true) and (2) AUTODETECT_CLIENTS (default true). stgraber, do you mind if I change the variable name that I sent in the older ica-launcher?
[19:08] <nubae> this little howto was really awsome: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2007/09/using-the-tomboy-d-bus-interface.ars
[19:21] <drGspot> has anyone tried to export edubuntu packages to other distros...? ex with woof in puppy..?
[19:22] <stgraber> alkisg: I guess I can still change it, people didn't get used to it ;)
[19:22] <alkisg> Nice :)
[19:24] <nubae> alkisg, how do I write your last name?
[19:24] <alkisg> Georgopoulos Γεωργόπουλος
[19:24] <alkisg> Why?
[19:25] <nubae> I'm responding to the latest email from Scott Belford... who mentions Vagrant C as being involved with debian edu and somehow edubuntu being a re-marketed copy of it...
[19:25] <alkisg> Ugh, I didn't read that one yet... :-/
[19:25] <nubae> u've probably read it... anyway, thought I'd mention the real people behind edubuntu...
[19:26] <nubae> absolutely crazy... its no wonder people are misinformed
[19:30] <nubae> hah... gotta love my response... though I'm not gonna let it take any more of my time...
[19:31] <nubae> he is vagrant's #1 fan apparently... I wonder what specifically caused that...
[19:55] <alkisg> stgraber: done, and mail sent.
[21:50] <nubae> well, traffic on the mailing list is a good thing I guess... hopefully more voices are raised...
[21:51] <sbalneav> Cripes.  Been sick for a week.
[21:51] <sbalneav> I come back to this sh*t.
[21:51] <sbalneav> So, I can't figure out.  Is R. Scott Belford mad at me?
[21:52] <sbalneav> nubae: He's vagrant's #1 fan because vagrant is LTSP's maintainer in Debian.
[21:53] <sbalneav> I'm vagrant's #1 fan as well, but vagrant works at FreeGeek.  His *job* is partially maintaining their LTSP infrastructure.  He can work on fixing LTSP problems all day.
[21:58] <CAN-o-SPAM> Looks like a bunch of wasted energy to me
[22:06] <nubae> heh, it seems he's mad at everyone
[22:06] <nubae> I just got a personal email from him telling me how he was so dissapointed in me
[22:06] <nubae> that he thought I was more mature :-)
[22:07] <nubae> thing about Vagrant is, Scott seems to think he is somehow the main debian-edu developer, and that somehow that makes him the main edubuntu man...
[22:07] <nubae> I dunno... its confused me now too...
[22:08] <sbalneav> What I have to laugh about is how QUICKLY everyone seems to think things can "get fixed"
[22:08] <sbalneav> We've made a concerted effort to get some long standing issues resolved:
[22:08] <nubae> All I did was try to set the record straight a bit, but I guess maybe I got too personal... I appologize for that
[22:09] <nubae> right... the minute something doesnt go their way, its time to jump ship
[22:09] <nubae> and I guess its just this has happened so many times before, we aren't surprised to see it happen anymore
[22:09] <sbalneav> 1) LaserJock, even though he was MOVING and GETTING A NEW JOB, managed to get the seeds so that edubuntu's a distro again.
[22:10] <sbalneav> 2) I've spent 3 months working on JUST getting Sabayon into a workable state.
[22:10] <nubae> there is a slight indifference on our part (those that have been around for a little longer) and perhaps we should try to address that indifference
[22:10] <sbalneav> Now I'm working on the handbook.
[22:10] <nubae> right... thats why I thought it right to mention people actually working on edubuntu...
[22:11] <sbalneav> Well, I think there has to be some realism.  We have no *real* backing from Canonical, other than the naming and hosting of the site.  Theres only a small number of people working on edubuntu, and NONE of us are full time.
[22:11] <nubae> what I mean is, it looks like the perceived indifference is either intimidating or seems like we are purposely being secretive...
[22:12] <nubae> yeah... well all this came from Ace 'leaving the community'
[22:13] <nubae> he wrote me a personal email stating that it was one particular person's fault, though he wouldnt mention who
[22:36] <dgroos> Hi again
[22:39] <dgroos> so still working on getting cloned server on the network... and respectin' it.
[22:40] <dgroos> Took down lots of stuff at the school today--my name was mud.
[22:41] <dgroos> anyway, I'm working on isolating the problem and can see that the 2 nics are confused, the nic for the wan is spewing out ip addresses.
[22:43] <dgroos> Can I just go into /etc/network/interfaces and *do something*?
[22:45] <Ahmuck> dgroos: yes
[22:45] <Ahmuck> explain your situation
[22:46] <Ahmuck> this is something i just recently solved myself
[22:46] <Ahmuck> dgroos: ?
[22:46] <dgroos> Ahumck:!
[22:47] <dgroos> how are you?
[22:47] <dgroos> and, how's your technology treating you?
[22:49] <dgroos> Well, my 2 nics are backwards, the giga nic is not giving addresses via dhcp which it needs to do to the clients.
[22:50] <dgroos> Instead, the 100 MB nic is handing them out (which caused things on the network here at the school to go down).
[22:50] <dgroos> Ahumck:?
[22:53] <Ahmuck> .
[22:53] <dgroos> Ahmuck: Hello
[23:05] <Ahmuck> ok, so you need to switch things around
[23:05] <Ahmuck>  /etc/network/interfaces
[23:05] <dgroos> yes indeed
[23:05] <Ahmuck> and /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
[23:05] <Ahmuck> so post them pastebin
[23:05] <Ahmuck> morever, you also need to be aware that your going to have to physically change the wire on the back of the server i suspect
[23:05] <dgroos> OK  ubuntu.pastbin is it?
[23:06] <Ahmuck> pastbin.be or whatever you want to use
[23:06] <dgroos> OK  I'm in this deafening server room right now, am moving cables...
[23:07] <dgroos> why will I need to change wires?
[23:07] <Ahmuck> well, i assume that eth0 is incoming, via from the school network and/or internet and eth1 is the thin client side which you have isolated
[23:08] <dgroos> hmmm... just realized that I can't really do the pastebin thing since I daren't connect this server to the building network yet and risk bringing things down again.  Another way?
[23:09] <dgroos> The way I've got things set up on my "other server" is eth1 goes to building and eth0 goes to my lan.
[23:10] <Ahmuck> post it in an e-mail
[23:10] <Ahmuck> put it on a usb key and then move it and pastebin it
[23:10] <dgroos> I'll see if it works!
[23:17] <dgroos> Here's ../interfaces: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/286564/
[23:19] <Ahmuck> dgroos: so there swaped?
[23:19] <Ahmuck> they are ?
[23:19] <dgroos> And here's the dhcpd: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/286566/
[23:20] <dgroos> Yes, that's the problem.  I've tried a few things but kinda guess and check strategy.
[23:21] <Ahmuck> so if you swap eth1 and eth0 in the inteface file, did that fix it?
[23:22] <dgroos> Right, I tried that and when I tried to reboot the network it said: (I've got to do it again to get the error message)
[23:23] <dgroos> "* Reconfiguring network interfaces...
[23:23] <dgroos> RTNETLINK answers: No such process
[23:24] <dgroos> *if-up.d/mountnfs[eth0]: waiting for interface eth1 before doing NFS mounts"
[23:29] <Ahmuck> yes, mine does the same, however it works
[23:29] <Ahmuck> does yours?
[23:30] <dgroos> OK I'll check
[23:31] <dgroos> Well, the nic that needs to go to the WAN is still giving out ip address, the other nic is not providing them.
[23:34] <dgroos> The previous results I posted were actually not when I changed the eth0 and eth1 in  /etc/network/interfaces sorry for confusion.
[23:35] <dgroos> Here are the results when trying to reboot after switching in .../interfaces:
[23:35] <dgroos> * Reconfiguring network interfaces...
[23:35] <dgroos> RTNETLINK answers: No such process
[23:36] <dgroos> SIOCDELRT: No such process
[23:36] <dgroos> * if-up.d/mountnfs[eth1]: waiting for interface eth0 before doing NFS mounts.
[23:37] <Ahmuck> swaping interfaces prolly means your going to have to restart dhcpd
[23:37] <Ahmuck> but, i'm a nubie
[23:37] <dgroos> OK know how to do that?
[23:38] <dgroos> I'm game!
[23:43] <dgroos> sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart it is...
[23:52] <dgroos> Ahmuck: Thanks for working on this networking issue with me.  I've got to head home for the day.  I'll post the question to the list-server on the thread that is steadily growing.
[23:54] <dgroos> Ahmuck: Have a good evening!