=== highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage [09:42] Howdy. [09:42] :-D [09:42] Anyone around? [09:42] Hi [09:43] How the day treating you? [09:43] ok... [09:43] Thats good. [09:44] I'm just having a look around. I'm new to IRC [09:44] Welcome :) [09:44] Been using Ubuntu for a while now though. Since Breezy. Downloading edubuntu atm. Time for a change. [09:45] Thanks for you welcome. Is this a very active channel? [09:45] Not on weekends... on weekdays there is some noice, but again not much [09:46] Can you answer a small question for me perhaps? [09:47] !ask [09:47] Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) [09:48] Ok. Like I said. I'm new. Sorry. [09:48] Is the difference between Ubuntu and Edubuntu just the packaged software that comes with? [09:49] In jaunty, edubuntu is a meta-package to easily install some software. In Karmic, it comes as an installation DVD. [09:51] So. If I'm reading you right. Essentially both packages are the same but the software (apps) are different. [09:52] Yes; e.g. you can start with an Ubuntu installation and just install the edubuntu packages. [09:52] So I could down load Ubuntu, add Edubuntu apps and call it Edubuntu and really there would be no difference. [09:52] Yes [09:52] Ok, cool. Thank you for your help. I'm sure you get much harder questions than that from time to time. [09:53] Heh :) Don't worry, feel free to ask anything you want. [09:53] I'm in Australia. East coast. It's cold and raining. Just become dark. No I cannot see kangaroos out my window. Where are you? [09:54] In the other side of the world :) [09:54] Greece - it's 11:54 am here [09:59] Never been to Greece. One day maybe. [10:00] Beautiful weather I hear. Warm, sunny and generally not to hot. [10:00] So, for you - Why Edubuntu? [10:00] We were planning on coming to Australia for some years, but we had problems with the kids - the school year started 6 months later than us, so they'd loose a year in school... [10:00] Are you a teacher? [10:00] Yes [10:01] Same. [10:01] What do you teach? [10:01] Computer classes :) [10:02] He he - I teach HSIE which stands for Human Society and its Environment. Essentially Geography and History among other subjects like Aboriginal Studies, Commerce, Legal Studies & Business Studies. [10:03] I'm resurecting an old computer with Edubuntu for my classroom. Had Ubuntu on it for years though. [10:04] In a staff or 56 at our school (Years 7-10) me and one other teacher are the only ones that are computer literate. The school I'm at dosen't even have Computer Studies. [10:04] Wow... and do you have a sysadmin employed there? Who takes care of your PCs? [10:05] We had one. Gone. [10:06] Nice :) Good luck! [10:06] Now we have what is called a TSO. Technical Systems Officer who does software. The other staff member I mentioned does hardware. I run the Moodle. [10:07] We have just had a laptop roll out of 20,000 computer to all of year 9 across the state so the TSO is for them really. [10:07] They are all baby notebooks. $700 each with $5200 of software. [10:08] In Greece they gave out netbooks to all 12 y.o. students... [10:08] ..but they're dual boot with ubuntu and no office, so not much spent on software [10:08] Since most teachers are computer illiterate (nearly retiring) so I've installed Moodle to ease the burden on the staff face to face tech lessons. [10:09] I see. Great for Ubuntu but youneed the software. [10:10] These little notepads have 6.5 hour batt life and are Windows 7. Fully locked and remotely administered via wireless. [10:11] How are they administrered? E.g. what do you do if you want to install the new acrobat reader in 20000 laptops? [10:12] All via the proxy. They are all filtered and no software can be installed by the student whatsoever. [10:12] http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,26111035-15306,00.html [10:13] You can't even get into the bios. Each one has a tracker inserted so they can't be sold. Accurate to 5meters. Pretty cool but very big brother too. [10:13] OK, but how is new software installed? [10:14] It's automatically uploaded / downloaded via the proxy when instructed by the department. [10:15] By the end of the year they will have issued 65,000 of these things. I have one. It's ok. Can't handle video through the projector. I nearly killed it in its first month. [10:15] I'd like to know how that is done technically. I don't know of any way to do that PROPERLY in windows - and using WSUS in 20.000 PCs sounds like a nightmare to me. [10:16] It has a prompt that comes up just telling you what its doing. You can say ok or cancel. [10:16] Sure, I mean the sysadmin-side of the story... [10:16] If you choose cancel it will just do it automatically on the next reboot. [10:17] Yeah - do not know and for obvious reasons I guess there keeping it all secret too. [10:18] Essentially each laptop is like a slave and the proxy is the server. Although students can access the net at home its only via the detmsw proxy and is so filtered as such. === highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage === pleia2_ is now known as pleia2 [14:13] bonjour [14:16] helo [14:16] *hello [14:17] y a t-il quelqu'un de chez scideralle ? [15:06] morning [15:06] Good morning LaserJock [15:06] how goes? [15:08] pretty good [15:10] dgroos: how are you doing? [15:11] dgroos: the lab going pretty smoothly? [15:11] Well, students coming in any moment and need to finish the demo, "triple bubble map": http://cmap.mpls.k12.mn.us/servlet/SBReadResourceServlet?rid=1GLSQ92NQ-1683NSR-BW&partName=htmltext [15:11] and yes indeed, it is :) [15:12] I'm trying to get the server cloned so the other classes can get up and running as well. [15:12] LaserJock: take it easy. [15:16] highvoltage, stgraber: ping [15:16] LaserJock: pong [16:09] dgroos: need any help with the cloning thing? [16:35] alkisg: Hi and thanks for asking [16:36] Hey... I saw you mails in the list, and thought I'd save you from some suffering, if i can... :) [16:36] Thanks--students just came in (I was between class...) I'll get back... [16:37] np [16:41] alkisg: ping [16:41] Hey stgraber [16:41] * alkisg is trying to create nice looking menus for ltsp clients: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/pxeboot.png [16:42] +xprop -root -f ICA_PORT 16c -set ICA_PORT $ISDPORT ica -noshm -isdport $ISDPORT -ivsport $IVSPORT -role $ROLE 2> /dev/zero [16:42] +xprop -root -remove ICA_PORT [16:42] not sure about that -remove part [16:43] why are you seeting ICA_PORT to unset it just afterwards ? [16:43] (or I'm missing something about what -remove does) [16:43] I'm unsetting it when the client ica dies, don't i? [16:43] * alkisg looks at the source... [16:44] oh, that may well be the case ;) [16:44] Heh :) [16:44] indeed ;) [16:44] makes sense suddenly [16:44] stgraber: I got many, many ica-crashes with standalone clients.. :( [16:44] (not related to the launcher code) [16:45] I start projecting my screen on 12 clients, and after 30 seconds, 10 of them hang! [16:45] that's weird, in my case it was mostly ivs crashing but I fixed that a while ago with the auto-restart code [16:45] How should I try to debug this? [16:47] would be interesting to see if ica is completely dead or half-alive [16:48] I think it's defunct [16:48] if it's completely dead (no more ica process), then it could be interesting to attach a gdb on it before starting it [16:48] if it's half-alive, trying to strace it and attach gdb might help [16:48] firedrill... [16:48] Ughm, I'll need reading for that, I've done most of my debugging with visual studio and delphi :( [16:49] k, ty [16:49] dgroos: Heh, get the server out for practice! :) [16:51] I'm uploading your changes now, then will give it a try with LTSP-Cluster as I run, just to make sure it still works ;) [16:51] alkisg: ah... can you tell me the chmod command to get the italc to be rwxr-xr-x? [16:52] dgroos: http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Installation#Setup_authentication_keys [16:53] stgraber: it would be better if you did this the other way around!!! :D [16:53] dgroos: ah, sorry, you mean the launcher? sudo chmod +x [16:53] well, looking at the code, I'm pretty confident it'll work :) [16:54] Hope so... [17:04] stgraber: ah, I forgot to ask about what I told you in the mail: it'd be nice if we also included an "don't use autodetection" flag for italc-launcher (I've done this only for ica-launcher). Should I go ahead an parse /etc/italc/italc.conf from python? === alkisg is now known as alkisg_bbl [18:18] alkisg_bbl: yeah, please do === alkisg_bbl is now known as alkisg [18:21] stgraber: ok, if you didn't upload yet you may want to wait :) [18:22] alkisg: it's already uploaded ;) [18:22] Uh :) I'll use http://docs.python.org/library/configparser.html is that ok? [18:24] (it's in python2.6-minimal...) [18:30] I need it to work starting with pytohn 2.4 [18:30] *python [18:30] Is that there? /me has no clue... [18:30] no idea [18:31] I'd go with something ugly but compatible like [18:31] Yup, I think it is [18:31] http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.4/python/lib/module-ConfigParser.html [18:31] right, but you italc.conf is a shell file (containing shell variables), not ini ? [18:32] Sure, but I think that's a subset, isn't it? [18:32] I.e. only the default section [18:33] I could also parse it 'manually', or even execute it and read the environment variables, but I think the configparser looks more elegant... [19:00] hi folks... [19:00] alkisg, whatcha trying to do? [19:00] Hi nubae [19:01] I sent a small patch for italc to avoid ports in use, and I wanna send another one for it to not autodetect clients [19:02] I got it in a one-liner :): no_autodetection=subprocess.Popen(["sh", "-c", ". /etc/italc/italc.conf >/dev/null 2>&1 && echo $NO_AUTODETECTION"], stdout=subprocess.PIPE).communicate()[0].strip().upper() in ["TRUE", "T", "1"] [19:02] mailing list is getting kinda heated... though I guess I'm partly to blame :-) [19:02] hehe... nice one [19:03] Could someone suggest better names for the conf variables? One for DONT_PUBLISH_TO_AVAHI, and another one for DONT_USE_AVAHI_FOR_AUTODETECTION? :D [19:03] I've been drowning my brain in DBus and telepathy [19:04] * nubae never realised what an amazingly powerful and approachable framework dbus really was [19:05] hmmm.... dont publish what? [19:05] IP I guess u mean [19:06] Yeah, don't publish the ica service (=ip) to the avahi daemon [19:06] u know, u could probably switch off autodection of ips via dbus :p [19:08] Ah, I think I got it. (1) ADVERTISE_CLIENT (default true) and (2) AUTODETECT_CLIENTS (default true). stgraber, do you mind if I change the variable name that I sent in the older ica-launcher? [19:08] this little howto was really awsome: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2007/09/using-the-tomboy-d-bus-interface.ars [19:21] has anyone tried to export edubuntu packages to other distros...? ex with woof in puppy..? [19:22] alkisg: I guess I can still change it, people didn't get used to it ;) [19:22] Nice :) [19:24] alkisg, how do I write your last name? [19:24] Georgopoulos Γεωργόπουλος [19:24] Why? [19:25] I'm responding to the latest email from Scott Belford... who mentions Vagrant C as being involved with debian edu and somehow edubuntu being a re-marketed copy of it... [19:25] Ugh, I didn't read that one yet... :-/ [19:25] u've probably read it... anyway, thought I'd mention the real people behind edubuntu... [19:26] absolutely crazy... its no wonder people are misinformed [19:30] hah... gotta love my response... though I'm not gonna let it take any more of my time... [19:31] he is vagrant's #1 fan apparently... I wonder what specifically caused that... [19:55] stgraber: done, and mail sent. === alkisg is now known as alkisg1 === alkisg1 is now known as alkisg [21:50] well, traffic on the mailing list is a good thing I guess... hopefully more voices are raised... [21:51] Cripes. Been sick for a week. [21:51] I come back to this sh*t. [21:51] So, I can't figure out. Is R. Scott Belford mad at me? [21:52] nubae: He's vagrant's #1 fan because vagrant is LTSP's maintainer in Debian. [21:53] I'm vagrant's #1 fan as well, but vagrant works at FreeGeek. His *job* is partially maintaining their LTSP infrastructure. He can work on fixing LTSP problems all day. [21:58] Looks like a bunch of wasted energy to me [22:06] heh, it seems he's mad at everyone [22:06] I just got a personal email from him telling me how he was so dissapointed in me [22:06] that he thought I was more mature :-) [22:07] thing about Vagrant is, Scott seems to think he is somehow the main debian-edu developer, and that somehow that makes him the main edubuntu man... [22:07] I dunno... its confused me now too... [22:08] What I have to laugh about is how QUICKLY everyone seems to think things can "get fixed" [22:08] We've made a concerted effort to get some long standing issues resolved: [22:08] All I did was try to set the record straight a bit, but I guess maybe I got too personal... I appologize for that [22:09] right... the minute something doesnt go their way, its time to jump ship [22:09] and I guess its just this has happened so many times before, we aren't surprised to see it happen anymore [22:09] 1) LaserJock, even though he was MOVING and GETTING A NEW JOB, managed to get the seeds so that edubuntu's a distro again. [22:10] 2) I've spent 3 months working on JUST getting Sabayon into a workable state. [22:10] there is a slight indifference on our part (those that have been around for a little longer) and perhaps we should try to address that indifference [22:10] Now I'm working on the handbook. [22:10] right... thats why I thought it right to mention people actually working on edubuntu... [22:11] Well, I think there has to be some realism. We have no *real* backing from Canonical, other than the naming and hosting of the site. Theres only a small number of people working on edubuntu, and NONE of us are full time. [22:11] what I mean is, it looks like the perceived indifference is either intimidating or seems like we are purposely being secretive... [22:12] yeah... well all this came from Ace 'leaving the community' [22:13] he wrote me a personal email stating that it was one particular person's fault, though he wouldnt mention who [22:36] Hi again === dgroos_ is now known as dgroos [22:39] so still working on getting cloned server on the network... and respectin' it. [22:40] Took down lots of stuff at the school today--my name was mud. [22:41] anyway, I'm working on isolating the problem and can see that the 2 nics are confused, the nic for the wan is spewing out ip addresses. [22:43] Can I just go into /etc/network/interfaces and *do something*? [22:45] dgroos: yes [22:45] explain your situation [22:46] this is something i just recently solved myself [22:46] dgroos: ? [22:46] Ahumck:! [22:47] how are you? [22:47] and, how's your technology treating you? [22:49] Well, my 2 nics are backwards, the giga nic is not giving addresses via dhcp which it needs to do to the clients. [22:50] Instead, the 100 MB nic is handing them out (which caused things on the network here at the school to go down). [22:50] Ahumck:? [22:53] . [22:53] Ahmuck: Hello === dgroos_ is now known as dgroos [23:05] ok, so you need to switch things around [23:05] /etc/network/interfaces [23:05] yes indeed [23:05] and /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf [23:05] so post them pastebin [23:05] morever, you also need to be aware that your going to have to physically change the wire on the back of the server i suspect [23:05] OK ubuntu.pastbin is it? [23:06] pastbin.be or whatever you want to use [23:06] OK I'm in this deafening server room right now, am moving cables... [23:07] why will I need to change wires? [23:07] well, i assume that eth0 is incoming, via from the school network and/or internet and eth1 is the thin client side which you have isolated [23:08] hmmm... just realized that I can't really do the pastebin thing since I daren't connect this server to the building network yet and risk bringing things down again. Another way? [23:09] The way I've got things set up on my "other server" is eth1 goes to building and eth0 goes to my lan. [23:10] post it in an e-mail [23:10] put it on a usb key and then move it and pastebin it [23:10] I'll see if it works! [23:17] Here's ../interfaces: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/286564/ [23:19] dgroos: so there swaped? [23:19] they are ? [23:19] And here's the dhcpd: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/286566/ [23:20] Yes, that's the problem. I've tried a few things but kinda guess and check strategy. [23:21] so if you swap eth1 and eth0 in the inteface file, did that fix it? [23:22] Right, I tried that and when I tried to reboot the network it said: (I've got to do it again to get the error message) [23:23] "* Reconfiguring network interfaces... [23:23] RTNETLINK answers: No such process [23:24] *if-up.d/mountnfs[eth0]: waiting for interface eth1 before doing NFS mounts" [23:29] yes, mine does the same, however it works [23:29] does yours? [23:30] OK I'll check [23:31] Well, the nic that needs to go to the WAN is still giving out ip address, the other nic is not providing them. [23:34] The previous results I posted were actually not when I changed the eth0 and eth1 in /etc/network/interfaces sorry for confusion. [23:35] Here are the results when trying to reboot after switching in .../interfaces: [23:35] * Reconfiguring network interfaces... [23:35] RTNETLINK answers: No such process [23:36] SIOCDELRT: No such process [23:36] * if-up.d/mountnfs[eth1]: waiting for interface eth0 before doing NFS mounts. [23:37] swaping interfaces prolly means your going to have to restart dhcpd [23:37] but, i'm a nubie [23:37] OK know how to do that? [23:38] I'm game! [23:43] sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart it is... [23:52] Ahmuck: Thanks for working on this networking issue with me. I've got to head home for the day. I'll post the question to the list-server on the thread that is steadily growing. [23:54] Ahmuck: Have a good evening!