[00:25] <sbalneav> Evening LaserJock
[00:25] <sbalneav> Thought I'd start a new thread, rather than weigh in on the old one.
[00:26] <LaserJock> sbalneav: yes, reading it now
[00:33] <Ahmuck> LaserJock, colab on wiki, using that colab tool that one of the ltsp people pointed out
[00:33] <Ahmuck> it can be done in real time that way
[00:35] <sbalneav> Hey Ahmuck
[00:44] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: gobby?
[00:54] <Ahmuck> yes, gobby
[00:54] <Ahmuck> what exactly were you trying to fix in the wiki?
[00:54] <Ahmuck> brb, printer's borked
[03:39]  * nubae waves to LaserJock 
[03:42] <nubae> LaserJock, u remember that list of universe/multiverse apps I put together for possible inclusion once we had an edubuntu dvd again... has that been looked at all? has there been any time to include some of those?
[03:45] <LaserJock> nubae: I haven't really had much time for that during Karmic
[03:46] <LaserJock> nubae: because we're doing both LiveFS and text-based installers we're at 3.5GB already with just the regular Edubuntu apps and LTSP
[03:46] <LaserJock> nubae: but we are building with Universe enabled so it's trivial to add new apps
[03:46] <nubae> ok, I figured as much, let me know when u do have some time, and how I can help
[03:46] <LaserJock> nubae: I was hoping we'd get you're list reviewed and included for Lucid
[03:47] <LaserJock> nubae: I haven't forgotten it by any means
[03:48] <LaserJock> I was just so worried about getting a workable DVD I didn't want to mess with additional apps right away
[03:49] <LaserJock> nubae: alkisg was saying that we may be able to get rid of the text-based installer
[03:49] <nubae> cool... was just a friendly reminder, would be great for lucid as these are the kinds of things that will be visible to the end user... will make it obvious that edubuntu is growing up
[03:49] <LaserJock> he said that squashfs can detect duplicate files
[03:49] <nubae> oh
[03:49] <LaserJock> so a LTSP client chroot would take essentially no space if we include it in the squashfs
[03:50] <LaserJock> so if we can get a client chroot in there we can save all that space
[03:50] <LaserJock> making it much more reasonable to fill it with Universe goodies
[03:50] <nubae> hmm. so u mean load the client chroot on setup?
[03:50] <LaserJock> essentially the client chroot would exist in the live system
[03:51] <nubae> ok, nice
[03:51] <LaserJock> and get copied over as with all the other packages
[03:51] <LaserJock> there are certainly things we'd have to figure out
[03:51] <LaserJock> like how to get the client chroot built in the live system to begin with
[03:51] <LaserJock> and how to remove it if the user is not wanting LTSP
[03:51] <LaserJock> but right now we're essentially shipping 2 copies of Edubuntu
[03:52] <LaserJock> one as a live system and another as .debs for the LTSP/text-based installer
[03:52] <nubae> well, surely just a call to ltsp-build-client from postinst woud do that, no?
[03:52] <LaserJock> it could be that easy, I'm not sure
[03:52] <LaserJock> that would work to get the files on I'd think
[03:52] <nubae> ah I see what u mean so we'd actually save space by loading into the chroot all in one go
[03:52] <LaserJock> but removing them might be the more difficult part
[03:53] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:53] <LaserJock> that was my intent
[03:53] <LaserJock> if we shove everything in the livefs then we don't need all those extra .debs
[03:53] <LaserJock> and if squashfs detects duplicate files (i.e. the chroot) then we get it for "free"
[03:54] <nubae> coolio, wel have to get back to sleep, its 5 am here... but keep up the great work, dont get discouraged with these emails...
[03:54] <LaserJock> nubae: thanks for stopping by and the kind words
[03:55] <nubae> I worry one day I'll come in here and see key people have packed their bags and left...
[03:55] <nubae> it wouldn't surprise me with the kind of feedback we get sometimes...
[03:56] <LaserJock> tbh, I was very close
[03:57] <nubae> :-/
[03:57] <LaserJock> I have lots of things to do and I was having a hard time justifying spending time on a project people seemed to think was a failure and irrelevant
[03:58] <nubae> yeah, just think of those voices as being the serious minority, backed by disinformation unfortunately
[03:58] <LaserJock> I've made my share of mistakes though and I think some of my management style might not have come across as as welcoming as I want to be
[03:58] <sbalneav> Well, to be fair, I only saw 2 people saying that :)
[03:58] <nubae> I think its really important we state somewhere prominent what is being worked on by who...
[03:59] <LaserJock> yeah, I'm trying to work on some of that
[03:59] <nubae> right... its just been 2 evangelists...
[03:59] <sbalneav> Not *evangelists*
[03:59] <LaserJock> highvoltage and stgraber have really stepped up
[03:59] <nubae> the same voices from long ago...
[03:59] <LaserJock> I think the Edubuntu Council is really making some progress
[03:59] <LaserJock> and we'll be holding elections soon
[03:59] <LaserJock> 3 new people, fresh blood :-)
[04:54] <nixternal> Dave Morley is a beast!
[04:54] <nixternal> he does all of the Kubuntu ISOs too!
[04:54] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:55] <nixternal> talk about not having a life! I don't have a life and still can't do that much :)
[05:01] <LaserJock> nixternal: well, that's because you run Vista for everything
[05:01] <nixternal> windows 7 now
[05:01] <LaserJock> nixternal: btw, I have to use Vista for work :(
[05:01] <nixternal> I am tired of this linux stuff
[05:01] <nixternal> oh boy, the gov't uses vista?
[05:02] <LaserJock> yep
[05:02] <LaserJock> mandatory upgrades have to be done by Dec. 1st
[05:02] <LaserJock> I got a new computer so mine came with it
[05:02] <LaserJock> funny AF/Windows story
[05:02] <LaserJock> I was having problems with IE crashing constantly
[05:03] <LaserJock> I had the computer help desk people look at it, etc.
[05:03] <LaserJock> after almost a month somebody said to change my default homepage to *not* be the Air Force portal page
[05:03] <LaserJock> and after that it stopped crashing
[05:04] <LaserJock> so the Air Force's default homepage crashers their *forced* web browser
[05:04] <LaserJock> *crashes
[05:06] <nixternal> ROFL
[05:08] <LaserJock> and with that, goodnight
[05:08] <nixternal> g'nite
[15:29] <jsgotangco> hey LaserJock
[15:35] <sbalneav> Morning ja
[15:35] <sbalneav> jsgotangco:
[15:35] <sbalneav> phht
[15:35] <sbalneav> can't type
[15:35] <LaserJock> hi jsgotangco
[15:36] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: how's life over there? You get affected by all the weather/natural disasters?
[15:37] <jsgotangco> hey sbalneav and LaserJock
[15:37] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: yes we did
[15:37] <jsgotangco> though not as badly as the rest
[15:37] <jsgotangco> i just had to contend with knee high flooding ;-)
[15:38] <LaserJock> yikes
[15:38] <jsgotangco> and being trapped in a church for 6 hours
[15:38] <jsgotangco> well its not as bad as the rest
[15:38] <jsgotangco> it was scary though
[15:38] <LaserJock> I bet
[15:38] <LaserJock> so you've got internet though?
[15:39] <jsgotangco> yep
[15:39] <jsgotangco> it didn't fade out thank goodness
[15:39] <LaserJock> crazy
[15:39] <jsgotangco> people were coordinating via fb and twitter
[15:39] <jsgotangco> yeah the typhoon had more rain than wind
[15:39] <LaserJock> something like that where I grew up and *everything* would be taken out
[15:39] <sbalneav> Wow
[15:39] <jsgotangco> usually if its wind, the cellular towers get knock out badly
[15:40] <jsgotangco> but since a lot of the cellular towers were on top of high rise buildings
[15:40] <jsgotangco> the car mechanics are making a killing at the moment
[15:40]  * LaserJock imagines jsgotangco in knee high water texting away
[15:40] <sbalneav> So, privately, I've received about 4 replies to my email on the list.  Very positive.  I.e., "we really like edubuntu and appreciate the work you guys do"
[15:41] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: my cellphone has TV
[15:41] <jsgotangco> :)
[15:41] <jsgotangco> i was watching tv while i was trapped
[15:41] <jsgotangco> sbalneav: that's good news for sure
[15:43] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: we are used to seasonal flooding but this one was one in a hundred years
[15:44] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: crazy, well I hope things get back to normal
[15:45] <jsgotangco> i doubt if it will get back to normal by years end
[15:45] <jsgotangco> one thing for sure i'll always get jittery when its going to rain hard
[15:45] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: how many people died in the philippines?
[15:45] <jsgotangco> because of the flooding?
[15:45] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: yeah
[15:45] <jsgotangco> i believe around 300
[15:45] <jsgotangco> or more
[15:45] <LaserJock> :(
[15:45] <jsgotangco> in 2 weeks we had 3 typhoons
[15:46] <LaserJock> yeah, crazy
[15:46] <jsgotangco> ketsana, parma and melor
[15:46] <jsgotangco> but melor is not bound to hit us
[15:46] <jsgotangco> but the thing is so huge, it stuck parma up north
[15:46] <LaserJock> did any of the earthquakes effect you guys?
[15:46] <jsgotangco> its been there since saturday
[15:46] <jsgotangco> nope
[15:47] <LaserJock> sbalneav: that's awesome to hear, we need to keep those rolling
[15:47] <sbalneav> Well, they've been private emails.  Obviously, people don't want to get involved.  It is nice that people DO seem to appreciate.
[15:48] <sbalneav> Here's a quote from one:
[15:48] <sbalneav> I'll keep listening in and contributing where I can, I know there are
[15:48] <sbalneav> lots of others like me in Education that silently use Edubuntu and are
[15:48] <sbalneav> thrilled that it's there.
[15:49] <sbalneav> So, my attitude is, stay the course, keep plugging away to help the "silent" users of Edubuntu :)
[15:49] <LaserJock> yeah
[15:49] <LaserJock> it helps just knowing they are there
[15:49] <sbalneav> Yep
[15:49] <LaserJock> sometimes I wonder to myself if anybody actually uses Edubuntu
[15:49] <jsgotangco> yeah i still do
[15:49] <jsgotangco> well my daughter does
[15:49] <sbalneav> Well, 4 people do anyway
[15:49] <sbalneav> 5
[15:49] <LaserJock> so it's nice to hear that people do use it anyway
[15:50] <jsgotangco> at least you are assured that a kid uses it here at home
[15:50] <jsgotangco> i haven't bought a new computer for well 4 years so i can't help test on decent hardware
[15:51] <LaserJock> does it have a DVD drive?
[15:52] <jsgotangco> yes but spotty
[15:52] <jsgotangco> lol
[15:52] <jsgotangco> my only decent machine here is a powerpc hehehe
[15:52] <jsgotangco> at the moment
[15:55] <LaserJock> I am still concerned that moving to a DVD release will cause a decent number of people to have problems
[15:56] <jsgotangco> are you still having an issue with disc size?
[15:56] <LaserJock> well, not anymore :-)
[15:57] <LaserJock> we moved to a DVD for Karmic
[15:57] <LaserJock> the add-on thing just wasn't working all that well for people
[15:57] <jsgotangco> i haven't been downloading discs lately
[15:57] <jsgotangco> just been dist upgrading
[15:58] <LaserJock> it caused a lot of confusion, OEMs didn't like it, and people had a hard time taking Edubuntu serious (i.e. it was removed from distrowatch) when it's billed as an "Add On"
[15:58] <jsgotangco> but a DVD is painful to download especially in this part of the world
[15:58] <jsgotangco> well at least torrent it
[15:58] <alkisg> Hi all! sbalneav: hey man, are you ok? we missed you :)
[16:00] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: yeah, we're going to try to have good instructions for burning it to a USB stick as well
[16:01] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: it's going to be a bit harder to get, but I think in the long run it's going to make things a lot easier for people
[16:02] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: for instance, with the add-on there was no way to do a livecd demo of Edubuntu
[16:02] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: with the DVD we can do that and have LTSP available for install
[16:02] <jsgotangco> ah true
[16:02] <jsgotangco> is the livecd still popular?
[16:03] <LaserJock> I think so, for demos and for people just wanting to quickly install Edubuntu on their child's machine
[16:04] <jsgotangco> hmm perhaps, my daughter just got used to it so its the only thing she uses at home
[16:04] <LaserJock> I think if we also give clear instructions maybe on how to create essentially an addon using AptOnCD or something
[16:04] <LaserJock> that might help
[16:04] <jsgotangco> man i have so many things to catch up
[16:04]  * jsgotangco needs to get a real computer soon
[16:04] <LaserJock> but the add-on was basically a pool of .debs
[16:05] <jsgotangco> yes thats what i recall
[16:15] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: do you get download stats per release?
[16:37] <Ahmuck> alkisg:
[16:37] <Ahmuck> someone needs to give dgroos a hand
[16:38] <alkisg> I tried yesterday, but he had lessons and a fire drill :)
[16:38] <alkisg> dgroos: whenever you want, just ping me....
[18:36] <dgroos> Ahmuck: Thanks!
[18:36] <dgroos> alkisg:  and to you, thanks too!
[18:36] <dgroos> Lunch time...
[18:36] <alkisg> dgroos: bon appetite
[18:37] <dgroos> alkisg: a bagle with cream cheese and hot peppers--my favorite -- ok tmi...
[18:38] <dgroos> so, I made the changes
[18:38] <alkisg> Everything ok now?
[18:39] <dgroos> I mentioned in last email but won't know till after school.
[18:39] <dgroos> alkisg:  Do you know what I meant that the ports had switched roles?
[18:39] <dgroos> (back to 2 hand typing...)
[18:39] <alkisg> You mean the nics?
[18:40] <alkisg> eth0 <=> eth1?
[18:40] <dgroos> yes
[18:40] <dgroos> yes
[18:40] <alkisg> You can change their names again from the 70-persistent-net-rules file...
[18:41] <alkisg> sudo gedit /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
[18:41] <dgroos> oh--I didn't know that.  Can I also just change the info under each heading for the section then saving (in /etc/network/interfaces?
[18:41] <alkisg> Yeah, sure...
[18:41] <dgroos> I tried that this AM but don't know if it worked, yet
[18:41] <dgroos> OK!
[18:42] <alkisg> I hope you *didn't* tell dhcp3-server to listen on a specific interface, did you?
[18:42] <dgroos> I'm going to do this idea you are giving now, as well, to learn...
[18:42] <dgroos> How would I have done that?
[18:42] <alkisg> E.g. dpkg-reconfigure dhcp3-server and tell it on which interfaces it should listen (*don't* do that)
[18:43] <dgroos> Luckily I didn't even know about that :)-- didn't touch it.
[18:44] <alkisg> Generally when cloning an ltsp server, you should only need to edit /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
[18:44] <alkisg> Nothing else (assuming dhcp-client on the external nic)
[18:45] <dgroos> Good to know.  So, instead of trashing and rebooting, I open, make it right, close, reboot?
[18:46] <alkisg> Right.
[18:46] <alkisg> And if you deleted that file before the cloning, you have 50% chance for it to work on the first boot with no editing whatsoever
[18:46] <alkisg> (or if the cards as the same, you can just switch the cables...)
[18:46] <dgroos> :) and I happened to not win that first toss of the coin!
[18:47] <alkisg> Yeah I forgot to tell you, in my case the cards were always gigabit, so I just switched the cables...
[18:48] <dgroos> Cool, thanks!
[18:48] <alkisg> Yw
[18:48] <dgroos> I'll be writing this up in my blog as well...
[18:49] <dgroos> alkisg: how do you make new servers?  As I understand you have a few labs you... supervise? set up? teach in?
[18:50] <alkisg> I have a set of scripts which automate the setup in about 95% (https://launchpad.net/sch-scripts), and in the future I want to do that 100% with an ubuntu remix
[18:51] <alkisg> If I do this the way I want, my "custom distro" will have 2 questions:
[18:51] <alkisg> 1) What are you setting up? (a) server (b) client (c) student pc
[18:51] <alkisg> and question 2) What's the computer hostname?
[18:51] <alkisg> I hope that will be all that I have to do to make it work :)
[18:52] <alkisg> (of course it'll only target greek schools, it can't be a generic solution)
[18:53] <dgroos> no way!  what would you start with, a golden image, an install disk? something else?
[18:53] <alkisg> A remix is a customized live cd
[18:54] <dgroos> (was just googling it :) )
[18:54] <alkisg> So I start with a live cd, unzip it, install packages and make some settings in that image, then zip it and make a live cd again.
[18:55] <dgroos> You would have 3 different images for each of your 3 choices listed in question 1?
[18:55] <alkisg> No, a single image
[18:55] <alkisg> (DVD or usb stick)
[18:56] <alkisg> I hope I can have this ready within 1-2 years... :)
[18:56] <dgroos> This is very cool.  You take big steps.
[18:57] <alkisg> Of course if I see that it works for us, I'll publish the necessary how-to's for other to do the same...
[18:57] <dgroos> how much customization would the install disk require?
[18:57] <alkisg> In my case, a lot
[18:58] <alkisg> E.g. I want shared users accounts, shared home dirs, italc installed, edu apps, the ability to remotely help any teacher that needs help, automatic upgrades from our ministry etc
[18:59] <dgroos> Nice
[19:00] <dgroos> Well, in the mean time I'll try to perfect the make-a-golden-image-of-the-server, clone-it, re-image and fix-/etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules. :)
[19:02] <alkisg> Simple & effective ;)
[19:02] <dgroos> But I'm going to share your vision with those who are the leaders of technology in our school district to let them know of the possible possibilities :)
[19:03] <dgroos> OK--lunch is up.  thanks alkisg and Ahmuck :D
[19:04] <alkisg> Bye!
[20:08] <sbeattie> BTW, there was discussion in the meeting a couple of weeks ago about zsync downloads failing when grabbing the edubuntu dvds off of cdimages.
[20:09] <sbeattie> I've prepared an SRU for zsync for hardy/intrepid/jaunty and it'd be great if people here could test it and report their results to bug 420931
[20:31] <LaserJock> sbeattie: thanks