[00:00] <rickspencer3> it's just that the menu item is disabled right?
[00:00] <seb128> the only places where it would make sense is livecd and guest session
[00:00] <seb128> and we have a gconf key we can tweak for those
[00:00] <rickspencer3> (I'm not saying I agree with this, I'm just asking)
[00:00] <seb128> rickspencer3, some users are complaining about screen not being locked after suspend resume too
[00:00] <rickspencer3> it seems rather odd, yes
[00:01] <Amaranth> why oh why did I give a first time linux user a karmic beta disc?
[00:01] <Amaranth> oops
[00:01] <TheMuso> heh
[00:02] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, robert_ancell I'll be ready in like 2 mins.
[00:02] <rickspencer3> I did update the wiki btw
[00:02] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - thats a preference issue (the screen not locking on lid close)
[00:02] <chrisccoulson> i just had a look at the g-p-m log in the bug report
[00:02] <seb128> chrisccoulson, being a preference issue would be respecting the gconf key
[00:03] <seb128> the indicator session code seems to unactive the menu for autologins
[00:03] <seb128> rather than reading the gconf lock key
[00:03] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - the indicator issue is separate from the lid-close issue though isn't it?
[00:03] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/indicator-session/+bug/428115/comments/34
[00:03] <seb128> chrisccoulson, not sure, I was reading new comments on this bug too
[00:04] <chrisccoulson> yeah, g-p-m gets the lock policy from several gconf keys (one of them tells it whether to use the screensaver config, or g-p-m config)
[00:04] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm not sure what is going on for people who claim that suspend doesn't lock screen
[00:05] <rickspencer3> ok, time for team meeting, Eastern Edition?
[00:05] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, TheMuso?
[00:05] <rickspencer3> sorry for the delay
[00:05] <TheMuso> here
[00:05] <robert_ancell> hi
[00:06] <rickspencer3> so, my general concern is to make sure that we all understand the status of various parts of the desktop, and know what changes are coming up
[00:06] <rickspencer3> did you guys look over the info from the Euro Edition?
[00:06] <robert_ancell> yes
[00:06] <rickspencer3> oops, I left out NM
[00:07] <rickspencer3> that's very close to done, and testing modems of types is appreciated
[00:07] <rickspencer3> (except 14.4 dial ups, as those are not used too much, I guess)
[00:07]  * rickspencer3 remembers thinking my first 14.4 was blazing fast
[00:07]  * TheMuso started with 33.6.
[00:07] <rickspencer3> hehe
[00:08] <rickspencer3> first though, let's talk bugs
[00:08] <rickspencer3> currently, everyone should be focused on targeted, High bugs
[00:08] <rickspencer3> but it seems that not everyone has such bugs assigned
[00:09] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, pedro mentioned some pulse bugs, did he assign those to you?
[00:09] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Yes he did, but I don't know where to go with them. Daniel is working on a race which is the result of a lot of those bugs.
[00:09] <TheMuso> Daniel has not told me what exactly is causing the race.
[00:09] <rickspencer3> so they kind of depend on another bug that Daniel is working on?
[00:09] <TheMuso> All I know is its somethign to do with alsa storing volumes and pulse storing volumes
[00:09] <seb128> Riddell, hum, bug #444962
[00:10] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Yes, but I couldn't vive you a bug number.
[00:10] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, hmmm
[00:11] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, could you please fish out that bug today, and comment on the bugs that pedro assigned to you?
[00:11] <TheMuso> hrm ok
[00:11] <rickspencer3> It's important that we are up on these issues and can keep users and other engineers apprised of the status
[00:12] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, are you currently working on any targeted bugs?
[00:13]  * robert_ancell looks
[00:13] <seb128> robert_ancell, could you add bug #444962 to your list? it seems Riddell broke nautilus with the update he uploaded today
[00:13] <robert_ancell> gdm guest session, gedit localization translations
[00:13] <seb128> it's 1am there and I need sleep I don't think I will fix that before going to bed but that would be nice to get fixed quickly
[00:14] <seb128> robert_ancell, gedit -> gconf, it's not likely specific to gedit
[00:14] <robert_ancell> seb128, ok, will look at
[00:14] <seb128> thanks
[00:14]  * rickspencer3 assigns to robert
[00:14]  * robert_ancell no more bugs please :)
[00:15] <rickspencer3> hehe
[00:15] <rickspencer3> it's nothing bug fixing from here on out
[00:15] <rickspencer3> ok, enough about bugs
[00:15] <rickspencer3> let's touch on the status of the areas you guys "own"
[00:15] <rickspencer3> just let folks know about any remaining issues or possible upcoming changes
[00:15] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Just a note, there is no real need to assign me to pulse bugs, as the audio team, which I am a member of, gets them anyway.
[00:16] <TheMuso> So if anyone needs to be assigned, its the audio team and we can then go from there
[00:16] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, compiz?
[00:16] <robert_ancell> awaiting 0.8.4 release, seems stable at the moment though
[00:16] <rickspencer3> when is it going in?
[00:16] <Amaranth> We just did a new snapshot of that, actually
[00:17] <Amaranth> mvo said since every commit was fixing bugs in ubuntu there was no point for a FFe
[00:17] <rickspencer3> so, when can we expect to see it uploaded?
[00:17] <Amaranth> Already done
[00:17] <rickspencer3> hehe
[00:17] <rickspencer3> negative time, like that
[00:17] <rickspencer3> so no more compiz changes expected? other than the stray bug fix maybe?
[00:17] <Amaranth> At least compiz itself was done and I think he did plugins-main today
[00:18] <Amaranth> We still need the other bits updated for a couple more crash fixes and such and upstream has already fixed another bug for netbook users
[00:18] <rickspencer3> okay, so a few more bug fixes going in
[00:18] <rickspencer3> thanks
[00:19] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, audio?
[00:19] <Amaranth> Should we cherry pick from here on or just get new snapshots since they only fix our bugs so far?
[00:19] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: The only real show stopper atm I think is the volume restore/saving issues as explained above
[00:19] <TheMuso> dtchen is working on that afaik
[00:20] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, a "show stopper"?
[00:20] <rickspencer3> that serious?
[00:20] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: well users are filing bugs about it, and its affecting myself and pitti.
[00:20] <TheMuso> not a show stopper, but its the biggest target on our list atm.
[00:20] <rickspencer3> okay
[00:21] <rickspencer3> is the bug targeted to the release?
[00:21] <TheMuso> if I knew what bug it was, I could tell you
[00:21] <TheMuso> i.e I am not sure which bug Daniel is using as a base
[00:21] <Amaranth> TheMuso: Did you see asac's bug with audio popping every couple seconds? I think he assigned to you.
[00:21] <Amaranth> If that happens for everyone with that model of laptop that'd be pretty bad
[00:21] <TheMuso> Amaranth: I saw it, don't think he assigned to me
[00:22] <TheMuso> again, Daniel knows more about whats going on with that stuff
[00:23] <rickspencer3> ok. moving on
[00:23] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, GDM?
[00:24] <robert_ancell> biggest issue seems to be guest account, other than that seems ok
[00:24] <robert_ancell> thought pitti just assigned me something which I will look into today
[00:24] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, this is the "requiring a password" issue?
[00:25] <rickspencer3> lol
[00:25] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, your bug list has indeed grown since we last talked
[00:25] <rickspencer3> :)
[00:25] <rickspencer3> this one is targeted - http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/443133
[00:26] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, there are 3 issues with guest account
[00:26] <rickspencer3> ok
[00:26] <rickspencer3> I only see one that is assigned to you, I guess you are helping pitti with the others?
[00:27] <seb128> I can assign bugs to robert_ancell if that's helping somebody ;-)
[00:27] <robert_ancell> I investigated one, pitti and seb128 have indicated some of the issues I found are already tracked in other bugs
[00:27]  * seb128 runs away from robert_ancell
[00:27] <rickspencer3> seb128, it seems to be a popular hobby in the last 24 hours, indeed
[00:27] <robert_ancell> NO MORE BUGS PLEASE!
[00:27] <seb128> ;-)
[00:28] <rickspencer3> it's hard to tell if he's smiling when he yells that
[00:28] <robert_ancell> 8)
[00:28] <seb128> I'm at a reasonable distance from him right now so I'm not too scared
[00:28] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, note that at this phase, we fix bugs at "best effort"
[00:28] <seb128> ;-)
[00:28] <robert_ancell> UDS is getting closer..
[00:28] <seb128> right, I will need to be nicer in the next weeks ;-)
[00:28] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, sure, I'm following that strategy already
[00:29] <rickspencer3> so the expectation is that you will work on them in priority order
[00:29] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, right, I just didn't want you to feel stressed that too many bugs = you fail if you can't fix them all
[00:29] <robert_ancell> and if they're all high? ;)
[00:29] <robert_ancell> np, thanks
[00:29] <seb128> robert_ancell, I don't get the shared-mime-info issue there so maybe not breaking for every but still worth looking at if you get it
[00:30] <rickspencer3> ok, so "some issues with guest sesssion"
[00:30] <rickspencer3> I guess I'll have to do some fishing to get specifics on that tomorrow
[00:30] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, any changes other than bug fixes planned for GDM?
[00:30] <robert_ancell> no
[00:30] <rickspencer3> ok
[00:30] <rickspencer3> moving on ...
[00:30] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, accessability?
[00:31] <rickspencer3> wasn't there a serious accessibility issue with GDM last week?
[00:31] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: my only issue that I am trying to solve is speech-dispatcher's alsa audio code crashing randomly. Its beyond my current skills and experience to fix, so I've put a call out to the a11y community, with no response so far.
[00:32] <rickspencer3> maybe someone from the foundations team can help
[00:32] <rickspencer3> they like to find and fix crashers
[00:32] <rickspencer3> :)
[00:32] <TheMuso> heh right
[00:32] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, what is the bug #?
[00:32] <rickspencer3> I'll see if I can get some help for that
[00:32] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: just a second. Problem is the stack trace is incomplete, due to apport not having dbgsym packages for speech-dispatcher for some reason
[00:33] <rickspencer3> ok
[00:34] <TheMuso> There is bug 440278 and bug 432337, both dispalying the random nature of this crash.
[00:35] <rickspencer3> bug 432337
[00:35] <rickspencer3> oh well
[00:35] <TheMuso> hang on
[00:36] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, how often does this occur?
[00:36] <rickspencer3> this seems rather serious
[00:36] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: very very randomly
[00:36] <TheMuso> sometimes one every two minutes, sometimes hours
[00:36] <rickspencer3> is that *infrequently*
[00:36] <TheMuso> yes
[00:36] <rickspencer3> ok
[00:36] <TheMuso> bug 432337
[00:37] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, if you are working on this bug, please make sure it is assigned to you
[00:37] <TheMuso> ok
[00:37]  * TheMuso sighs
[00:37] <rickspencer3> what's wrong?
[00:37] <rickspencer3> are these also audio team bugs?
[00:37] <TheMuso> nothing, just red tape. :)
[00:37] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, it's not red tape
[00:37] <TheMuso> anyway, assigned
[00:38] <rickspencer3> it's important to know where our resources are being allocated
[00:38] <rickspencer3> if someone needs help, and you don't have bugs assigned, how will anyone know whether you are available?
[00:38] <rickspencer3> also, if someone in the community is hitting this bug, how will they know that there is someone who cares and is working on it?
[00:38] <TheMuso> Yeah I know
[00:40] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, the desktop team has a culture of practicing good bug hygein
[00:40] <rickspencer3> we use our bug stats daily
[00:40]  * rickspencer3 gets off soap box
[00:40] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, TheMuso any other business?
[00:40] <TheMuso> no
[00:41] <robert_ancell> no
[00:41] <rickspencer3> coolio
[00:41] <seb128> TheMuso, btw do you think you will have time to look at this ubuntu-sounds for empathy bug before karmic?
[00:41] <Amaranth> So this is the perfect time to break compiz, right?
[00:41] <TheMuso> seb128: Probably, but if we have to add files, licensing is a concern.
[00:42] <seb128> TheMuso, oh? we can't copy sounds from the xdg theme?
[00:42] <TheMuso> seb128: We could, I'
[00:42] <seb128> TheMuso, what about having a binary from the xdg theme we would install by default?
[00:42] <TheMuso> seb128: We could, I'd just have to dig up the license for them and make sure all of that is added
[00:43] <TheMuso> seb128: I'll have a look if I get a chance.
[00:43] <seb128> TheMuso, should I assign the bug to you? it's assigned to me for now but I think it's rather a sound theme thing
[00:43] <TheMuso> seb128: sure
[00:43] <seb128> thanks
[00:48] <seb128> good night everybody
[01:10] <chrisccoulson> oh dear
[01:10] <chrisccoulson> shared-mime-info breakage!
[01:19] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, djsiegal tells me that he can't log in, that gdm just restarts whenever he logs in
[01:19] <rickspencer3> surely if this were a widespread issue, we would know, right?
[01:20] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I hadn't heard of this, I would expect this would be well known.
[01:20] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, is he online now?
[01:20] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3 - sounds like X crashing. has he tried without compiz?
[01:23] <robert_ancell> djsiegel, hey, have you looked in /var/log/gdm?
[01:24]  * Amaranth cries
[01:24] <Amaranth> It's going to be compiz crashing the ati driver or something
[01:24] <chrisccoulson> heh, what happened with your failsafe session stuff?
[01:28] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: I dunno if the patch ever got into gdm to complete the gnome-session side
[01:29] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. i'm not sure either
[01:29] <Amaranth> If not gdm is currently showing you a failsafe session that doesn't actually work
[01:29] <djsiegel> hi guys
[01:29] <djsiegel> let's DO this
[01:30] <rickspencer3> bye guys
[01:31] <Amaranth> rick is gone, let's put gnome-do in the default install!
[01:31] <djsiegel> robert_ancell: so, I am at gdm
[01:31] <Amaranth> djsiegel: Try the failsafe session
[01:32] <djsiegel> Amaranth: I am not sure how to do that
[01:33] <djsiegel> I don't see that option
[01:33] <chrisccoulson> there should be a sessions option at the bottom of the screen after you clicked your user
[01:33] <djsiegel> I have language and keyboard settings
[01:35] <djsiegel> chrisccoulson: ^
[01:37] <djsiegel> Amaranth robert_ancell ^
[01:38] <Amaranth> hrm, wth
[01:38] <robert_ancell> djsiegel, yeah, that's odd.  I'm fully updated and I see a sessions list
[01:38] <robert_ancell> djsiegel, can you look at the logs in /var/log/gdm (you need to be root)
[01:39] <djsiegel> yes
[01:39] <djsiegel> the -greeter ones?
[01:39] <robert_ancell> all of them, actually from a terminal do:
[01:39] <robert_ancell> sudo service gdm stop
[01:39] <robert_ancell> sudo rm /var/log/gdm/*
[01:39] <robert_ancell> sudo service gdm start
[01:40] <robert_ancell> then look at what logs were created
[01:40] <djsiegel> ok
[01:40]  * djsiegel just used sudo as root
[01:41] <djsiegel> robert_ancell: it made :0-{greeter,slave,}.log
[01:41] <robert_ancell> and after attempting to log in?
[01:42] <robert_ancell> The session combobox is hard-coded to always be there... why is yours missing??
[01:42] <djsiegel> duplicated them, adding .1 suffix
[01:43] <robert_ancell> ok, what is in the :0.log?
[01:43] <djsiegel> that is the pre-loging-attemt
[01:44] <djsiegel> I don't see anything weird
[01:44] <djsiegel> lots of stuff about intel(0)
[01:45] <robert_ancell> and the other logs?
[01:45] <djsiegel> well I diffed all the logs, and after failed loging
[01:45] <djsiegel> could not open xsplash.log
[01:46] <djsiegel> pam_unix(gdm:session): session closed for user david
[01:46] <djsiegel> xsplash: Fatal IO error 11
[01:46] <djsiegel> Resource temp unavail on X server :0.0.
[01:46]  * robert_ancell looking at recent changes to gdm
[01:47] <djsiegel> I get some complains that a timestamp of 0 was passed around the WM
[01:47] <robert_ancell> I get that in my logs
[01:48] <robert_ancell> djsiegel, could you try apt-get removing xsplash and see if that works?
[01:48] <Amaranth> so software-center has made my stepdad love ubuntu and now one of his friends is going to dual boot after seeing it
[01:48] <Amaranth> win
[01:48] <djsiegel> Amaranth: really?
[01:48] <djsiegel> Amaranth: had he seen Add/Remove before?
[01:48] <robert_ancell> djsiegel, also, and apt-get install --reinstall gdm just as a sanity check
[01:48] <Amaranth> djsiegel: No, first time using Ubuntu himself
[01:48] <djsiegel> Amaranth: ok, so it wasn't something that Software Center has that Add/Remove did not :)
[01:48] <djsiegel> just wondering
[01:49] <Amaranth> compiz helped too :)
[01:49] <Amaranth> expo mode blew them away, apparently
[01:50] <djsiegel> Amaranth: we need to make that easier to use
[01:50] <djsiegel> how to people discover that crazy key combo?
[01:50] <djsiegel> robert_ancell: it didn't fix it
[01:50] <Amaranth> I showed him the shortcut for it
[01:50] <djsiegel> I removed xsplash and --reinstalled gdm
[01:50] <robert_ancell> djsiegel, do you still get xsplash mentioned in the logs?
[01:50] <Amaranth> djsiegel: Have you rebooted since all this started?
[01:51] <djsiegel> Amaranth: yes
[01:51] <Amaranth> An upgrade to dmraid wiped /tmp
[01:51] <Amaranth> ah, ok then
[01:51] <djsiegel> oooh, my gdm restart and shut down menu items do nothing
[01:51] <robert_ancell> djsiegel, is dbus running?
[01:53] <djsiegel> robert_ancell: after removing xsplash, I still get this warning that xsplash.log could not be appended to
[01:54] <djsiegel> how do I check on dbus?
[01:54] <djsiegel> shows up in ps
[01:54] <robert_ancell> ps aux | grep dbus - is it running for the gdm user?
[01:56] <djsiegel> yes
[01:56] <djsiegel> Sorry, I have to go. I have been working since Sunday morning...
[01:56] <djsiegel> need a break
[02:00] <robert_ancell> djsiegel, oh, sorry for keeping you up.  I will look out for problems
[02:00] <djsiegel> no need to apologize, I just will have to debug later
[03:06] <rickspencer3> so is there some configgy way to make gdm load in username/password mode, rather than "pick your user from a list" mode?
[03:09] <jono> rickspencer3, I don't think so, that was discussed on a list somewhere recently
[03:09] <jono> pgraner, hey
[03:09] <rickspencer3> jono, never mind, that was a pm
[03:09] <pgraner> jono: sup
[03:09] <rickspencer3> wrong channel
[03:09] <jono> kenvandine, I was chatting with pgraner about these empathy issues
[03:09] <jono> rickspencer3, np
[03:09] <jono> pgraner, is there a way I can kill pulse and reload my alsa kernel modules
[03:09] <jono> so I can test
[03:10] <pgraner> jono: ps -ef | grep pulse then kill the pids
[03:10] <pgraner> jono: might be a more elegant way to do that
[03:11] <pgraner> jono: sudo /etc/init.d/alsa-utils restart
[03:12] <jono> pgraner, will that stop everything talking to alsa and re-load afresh?
[03:12] <pgraner> jono: it should
[03:12] <pgraner> jono: your last call caused empathy on my end to segfault
[03:12]  * pgraner restarts empathy
[03:13] <JanC> "pulseaudio -k", then "sudo modprobe -r whatever" works for me
[03:14] <jono> pgraner, dude I saw you for a second!
[03:14] <pgraner> jono: just segfaulted again
[03:14] <jono> there is some funky nonsense going on here
[03:14] <pgraner> jono: yea, it still seems to have some serious bugs
[03:14] <rickspencer3> pgraner, you are getting segfaults with empathy when you connect to jono?
[03:14] <rickspencer3> weird
[03:15] <pgraner> rickspencer3: yep
[03:16] <kenvandine> jono, after reloading all the alsa goodness, make sure pulseaudio is running again
[03:16] <jono> kenvandine,it seems to restart
[03:16] <kenvandine> ok
[03:16] <pgraner> jono: died again
[03:16] <kenvandine> jono, you do have another problem at home still
[03:17] <rickspencer3> oh well
[03:17] <jono> anothe rproblem?
[03:17] <kenvandine> well, the UPnP issue
[03:17] <jono> kenvandine, ahhh yes
[03:17] <kenvandine> which was better at the coffee shop :)
[03:17] <kenvandine> so it won't work great... but even with that failure you were getting the gstreamer problems
[03:17] <kenvandine> so if that goes away... you are in better shape :)
[03:18] <jono> kenvandine, so tomorrow I should test in the coffee shop
[03:18] <kenvandine> are you running it with those variables set?
[03:18] <kenvandine> if so, grep them for that same error
[03:18] <kenvandine> see if you are still getting it
[03:19] <pgraner> jono: I just video wit rickspencer3 , hahaha
[03:21] <rickspencer3> so, weird that pgraner and I can chat, but jono an pgraner can't
[03:21] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, well jono has two issues, UPnP negotiation times out at his router, but that shouldn't completely kill it
[03:22] <kenvandine> and the sound thing
[03:22] <rickspencer3> jono, your desktop is evil, that is the only explenation
[03:23]  * kenvandine thinks jono should listen to some jimmy buffet, his desktop will like him more :)
[03:23]  * pgraner agrees with kenvandine 
[03:24] <JanC> hm, seems like kenvandine's message caused the janc_test disconnect/reconnect
[03:24] <kenvandine> :)
[03:25] <kenvandine> jono, do you do any online gaming?  like xbox live, etc?
[03:26] <kenvandine> that stuff usually needs UPnP to work well as well
[03:26] <pgraner> kenvandine: for the record I"m not using a router, I'm using a linux box so I don't have commercial firmware getting in the way
[03:26] <kenvandine> hehe
[03:26] <JanC> kenvandine: can you retry a /me ?
[03:26] <kenvandine> that helps
[03:26]  * kenvandine jumps
[03:26] <JanC> hm, so that's not what triggered it  :-/
[03:31] <Amaranth> arg, the autopartitioner made _just_ enough room for ubuntu
[03:32] <Amaranth> no room for upgrades or installing new stuff
[03:32]  * JanC tests
[03:33] <JanC> Amaranth: there is a bug about that
[03:35] <JanC> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/421407
[06:42] <al-maisan> Good morning!
[07:29] <hyperair> meh. did a new devkit-power screw up battery support?
[08:15] <pitti> Good morning
[08:15] <pitti> TheMuso: as far as I understood mat_t, it was on shutdown and on low battery
[08:17] <seb128> hello there
[08:17] <huats> morning here !
[08:23] <didrocks> hey seb128, morning pitti, lut huats :)
[08:23] <seb128> lut huats didrocks
[08:25] <huats> hello seb128 didrocks and pitti
[08:34]  * pitti hugs didrocks, seb128, and huats, bonjour
[08:34] <seb128> hey pitti
[08:34]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[08:34] <pitti> the Fench mafia :)
[08:34]  * didrocks hugs pitti
[08:34] <didrocks> hehe :)
[08:40] <superm1> mvo, i found that update-notifier wasn't working for reboots in xfce, so i've got a merge request that adds hal as a fallback.  can you take a look when you get a moment? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~superm1/update-notifier/hal-fallback/+merge/12971 thanks
[08:42] <mvo> superm1: sure. did you had a chance to talk to cody about the icon change?
[08:43] <superm1> mvo, yeah, cody wasn't keen upon it since they don't use humanity for xubuntu.  mac_v didn't want to carry it directly in humanity either, so i just made a separate theme that inherits from humanity and just provides that icon
[08:43] <mvo> superm1: ok, thanks. diff looks fine (for reboot), commited
[08:43] <superm1> cool thanks mvo
[08:44] <superm1> not sure what to do when halsectomy is fully done, but at least this helps for this release
[08:45] <mvo> superm1: yeah, I will upload today or tomorrow (I will do some triage to see if there are other changes to pick first)
[08:45] <superm1> okay sounds good
[08:47] <superm1> pitti, it's peculiar that devicekit-power only provides suspend and hibernate methods.  wouldn't it make sense to also provide halt and reboot from devicekit-power rather than asking gdm and kdm and friends to go implement it?
[08:47] <pitti> superm1: indeed; however, halt/reboot are already provided by ConsoleKit
[08:47] <pitti> (no need for gdm/kdm to do it)
[08:47] <pitti> there was a looooong and heated thread about it
[08:48] <pitti> but William didn't give in, so it's still how things work :-(
[08:48] <superm1> pitti, oh neat! so that's basically the same thing that Reboot() did from HAL?
[08:48] <superm1> on org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit.Manager.Restart() that is
[08:48] <pitti> right
[08:49] <superm1> okay well then when halsectomy is done, that change i just submitted to update-notifier can just be converted to consolekit then instead
[08:49] <pitti> it checks for multiple users and requests the corresponding PK privilege (reboot for single user/reboot for multiple users being logged in)
[08:49] <superm1> oh so there is a slight difference then.  HAL just has a frenzy and reboot regardless
[08:50] <superm1> same basic result though
[08:50] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti
[08:50] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson! thanks for your screensaver lock investigations
[08:50] <chrisccoulson> you're welcome. so, we just need to change the defaults really:)
[09:04] <pitti> indeed
[09:17] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, /apps/gnome-screensaver/lock_enabled is false for me (and the default), and yet the screen locks with lid close
[09:17] <pitti> but I have use_screensaver_settings = false
[09:17] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thats expected. with use_screensaver_settings = false, g-p-m uses it's own policy
[09:17] <pitti> right
[09:18] <pitti> but use_screensaver_settings = false is also the default
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. i checked the schema on my machine, and it said true, but perhaps it is overridden in /usr/share/gconf/defaults somewhere
[09:19] <pitti> chrisccoulson: well, "default" in the sense of "I don't have it in my ~/.gconf"
[09:19] <pitti> I'm a bit undecided about /apps/gnome-screensaver/lock_enabled, but my gut feeling is that "false" is a better default
[09:19] <seb128> 10_gnome-power-manager:/apps/gnome-power-manager/lock/use_screensaver_settings false
[09:19] <pitti> it was like that for previous Ubuntu releases, and changing it now is unexpected
[09:20] <chrisccoulson> yeah, makes sense
[09:20] <chrisccoulson> so, the user in this report has broken their config somehow ;)
[09:20] <seb128> yes
[09:20] <chrisccoulson> that's ok then:)
[09:21] <chrisccoulson> although, i'm not entirely sure how they discovered that key
[09:23] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - want me to work on a g-s-d change to make gdm theming work?
[09:24] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you think you can get that done this week? in which case that would be great
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that shouldn't be too difficult
[09:25] <seb128> I'm not sure to understand how those schemas path changes work right now
[09:25] <seb128> the current one seems g-s-d keys specific
[09:25] <seb128> but the one we want to change are not
[09:25] <seb128> but the one we want to change are not g-s-d things
[09:26] <pitti> seb128: you have a broken killswitch on your dell as well, I suppose? (i. e. if you boot with the switch being on, you can't ever activate wifi)
[09:27] <seb128> hum xchat-gnome crashed
[09:27] <pitti> was funny to see you jump in and out
[09:27] <pitti> seb128: you have a broken killswitch on your dell as well, I suppose? (i. e. if you boot with the switch being on, you can't ever activate wifi)
[09:27] <seb128> pitti, I didn't try I never touch to this thing
[09:28] <pitti> ok; there's a test kernel for it, but no amd64 yet
[09:28] <seb128> I will try next time I reboot
[09:28] <pitti> oh, amd64 is there now, rad
[09:29] <pitti> I'll test it myself then
[09:38] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - the way i will do the GDM change is to add a new key for the xsettings plugin to tell it which keys to load the theme info from. then we just specify a different location for the GDM session
[09:38] <chrisccoulson> /"GDM change"/"g-s-d change"
[09:38] <chrisccoulson> that seems to be the least intrusive way
[09:38] <seb128> right
[09:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, should I assign you those bugs?
[09:38] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, can do
[09:38] <seb128> the installation failure ones
[09:39] <seb128> thanks
[09:39] <asac> ok i will not change the homepage in ephy then
[09:39] <asac> seb128: ^^
[09:41] <seb128> asac, thanks, that's something I noticed too when trying it
[09:42] <seb128> asac, btw did you get your libsoup change upstream to fix the sqlite query?
[09:42] <asac> seb128: yes. that was committed
[09:42] <seb128> cool thanks
[09:42] <seb128> will be in GNOME 2.28.1 then and in karmic
[09:42] <asac> at least i dented it here: http://identi.ca/notice/11175318 :)
[09:43] <asac> yeah. wasnt sure if libsoup also does a .1 release
[10:04] <asac> ArneGoetje: moin ... could we do a no-devmode test run in the next days?
[10:05] <seb128> dpm, hey, could you contact the translators to let them know that gdmsetup in gdm is ubuntu specific and need to be translated there?
[10:07] <andreasn> mac_v, hm, still issues with the gvfs names?
[10:08] <mac_v> andreasn: yeh! Mantas is confusing the crap out of me :/
[10:09] <mac_v> andreasn: for me even with gnome there is no distinction between the icons :/
[10:09] <asac> btw, did we figure whats going on with /tmp ?
[10:09] <andreasn> mac_v, it should call the names in the code somewhere, I wonder who we could talk to to sort this out
[10:09] <andreasn> either davidz or alexl
[10:10] <mac_v> andreasn: where can we find them?
[10:11] <andreasn> #gnome-hackers of course
[10:11] <andreasn> but both seems to be away right now
[10:15] <mac_v> andreasn: btw , what is the label to be used for unmount states?
[10:15] <andreasn> I don't know I'm afraid
[10:15] <mac_v> :(
[10:15] <andreasn> dobey should know
[10:21] <ArneGoetje> asac: sure, we need to rebuild the langpacks anyways.
[10:21] <ArneGoetje> asac: as soon as we hav sufficient diskspace on rookery
[10:21] <asac> ArneGoetje: ok. great let me know if you need guidance
[10:22] <mac_v> dobey: ^ when you get back... any idea what the icon names for the device unmount states are?
[10:22] <ArneGoetje> asac: I disabled devmode already, so the next build will be one.
[10:23] <asac> ArneGoetje: great. when do you expect to kick off the run?
[10:24] <ArneGoetje> asac: I will do a run tomorrow and see if the space we have now is sufficient or not
[10:26] <asac> thx
[10:26] <asac> let me know where the result bits are
[10:26] <asac> so i can do a quick pre-check
[10:26] <asac> if you upload to ppa right away thats good too
[10:26] <asac> just keep the logs ;)
[10:27] <ArneGoetje> asac: no, I won't upload to ppa. It will go to the archive
[10:28] <ArneGoetje> asac: but you can do a pre-check, as I need to kick off the upload maually
[10:28] <asac> ArneGoetje: ok.
[10:28] <seb128> mvo, update-manager resetting sudo credentials is a known issue?
[10:29] <mvo> seb128: no and no
[10:29] <mvo> seb128: resetting it in what way?
[10:29] <seb128> mvo, what was the first question? ;-)
[10:30] <mvo> seb128: just wanted to say "no" ;)
[10:30] <seb128> mvo, sudo something, use update-manager, sudo something
[10:30] <mvo> seb128: update-manager does not do anything with sudo, it just calls gksu
[10:30] <seb128> the second sudo ask for password again where it should be cached for half an hour
[10:30] <asac> Keybuk: any hints how to best auto-detect in upstream build systems whether to install upstart or old init script?
[10:31] <asac> what could i check in configure?
[10:32] <seb128> mvo, urg, update-manager is trying to remove gdm without tell me on a simple upgrade
[10:32] <seb128> wth?
[10:32] <seb128> I just noticed because it broke
[10:32] <mvo> seb128: *wehhh* what ?
[10:32] <seb128> we got an another bug about that today
[10:33] <mvo> seb128: aptdaemon doign, for sure :( it has not "strict" mode, but it should DTRTH
[10:33] <seb128> mvo, ups, sorry, wrong warning the message was confusing
[10:33] <mvo> seb128: if there is a bug already, please mark it high and assign to me (targeted for 9.10)
[10:33] <seb128> it's the prerm run during upgrade which broke
[10:33] <seb128> it's a known gdm bug
[10:34] <seb128> mvo, the fact that you can't change the geometry for the error dialog doesn't make it easy to read log
[10:34] <mvo> *puh* so not removing gdm?
[10:34] <seb128> no, just those stupid gvfs issues with gconftool calls
[10:35] <seb128> mvo, I still have the sudo issue though ;-)
[10:35]  * mvo almost had a heart attack
[10:36] <seb128> mvo, sorry...
[10:36]  * asac sends an ambulance to mvo 
[10:36] <seb128> brb
[10:36] <mvo> damage done and seb128 runs away :P
[10:41] <seb128> mvo, I managed to get the "authentificate" dialog stucked in update-manager
[10:41] <mvo> hm
[10:41] <seb128> ie I typed my password to org.debian.apt-upgrade-packages
[10:41] <seb128> but the dialog didn't close
[10:41] <seb128> and now everything is stucked
[10:41] <mvo> seb128: what does pstree and strace show?
[10:42] <seb128> mvo,      ├─update-manager
[10:43] <seb128> strace on update-manager?
[10:43] <seb128> it loops on
[10:43] <seb128> "read(4, 0xa2a1d60, 4096)                = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable)
[10:43] <seb128> gettimeofday({1254908788, 855106}, NULL) = 0
[10:43] <seb128> poll([{fd=4, events=POLLIN}, {fd=5, events=POLLIN}, {fd=7, events=POLLIN}, {fd=11, events=POLLIN|POLLPRI}, {fd=13, events=POLLIN|POLLPRI}, {fd=14, events=POLLIN|POLLPRI}, {fd=15, events=POLLIN|POLLPRI}, {fd=16, events=POLLIN}, {fd=3, events=POLLIN}, {fd=41, events=POLLIN}], 10, 0) = 0 (Timeout)
[10:43] <seb128> read(4, 0xa2a1d60, 4096)                = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable)
[10:43] <seb128> gettimeofday({1254908788, 855227}, NULL) = 0
[10:43] <seb128> poll([{fd=4, events=POLLIN}, {fd=5, events=POLLIN}, {fd=7, events=POLLIN}, {fd=11, events=POLLIN|POLLPRI}, {fd=13, events=POLLIN|POLLPRI}, {fd=14, events=POLLIN|POLLPRI}, {fd=15, events=POLLIN|POLLPRI}, {fd=16, events=POLLIN}, {fd=3, events=POLLIN}, {fd=41, events=POLLIN}, {fd=38, events=POLLIN}], 11, 99^C <unfinished ...>
[10:43] <seb128> "
[10:44] <mvo> seb128: urg, hrm, anything in gdb that looks useful?
[10:44] <seb128> hum apport
[10:45] <seb128> "Traceback (most recent call last):
[10:45] <seb128>   File "/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/dbus/connection.py", line 579, in msg_reply_handler
[10:45] <seb128>     *message.get_args_list()))
[10:45] <seb128>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/aptdaemon/gtkwidgets.py", line 468, in _on_error
[10:45] <seb128>     raise error
[10:45] <seb128> DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken."
[10:46] <seb128> and update-manager unblock saying that the aptdaemon probably crashed or something
[10:46] <seb128> unblocked
[10:46] <mvo> seb128: please file the bug
[10:47] <seb128> mvo, I would but I've gcc outdated and it refuses to send it due to that
[10:48] <asac> seb128: is libcanberra gnome material update wise? or do we need to cherry pick fixes?
[10:48] <asac> http://git.0pointer.de/?p=libcanberra.git;a=commit;h=ed6f221e617537b1901211d41c0bd8018739e814
[10:48] <seb128> asac, I would have said "let's update" but TheMuso started doing cherrypicking ages ago
[10:48] <asac> yeah ok. bug 438463
[10:49] <asac> that was the one we discussed with xan when you showed the libsoup crash
[10:49] <asac> TheMuso: are you planning to update libcanberra for release or do you want someone else to look at it? (see above)
[10:51] <asac> TheMuso: also .. bug 440540 ... is that power_save* stuff done in gpm?
[10:51]  * asac marks bug triaged
[10:52] <seb128> mvo, bug #445303
[10:53] <mvo> thanks seb128
[10:54] <seb128> mvo, you're welcome, sorry I didn't get extra details
[10:54] <seb128> I need to run but will be back in half an hour
[10:54] <seb128> brb
[11:06] <mvo> mpt: I'm looking into fixing right-to-left issues currently in software-store, to do that properly, I will have to use the stock arrow from gtk for the active button in the applications view, here is how it will look like http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/tmp/Screenshot-Ubuntu Software Center.png - is that ok or do you not like the arrow color ?
[11:06] <mvo> (well, merging the work on nzmm_ :)
[11:07] <mpt> mvo, it's not as visible. Could you just flip the custom icon in Gimp?
[11:10] <mvo> mpt: the changes from nzmm_ has the additional advantage that it will react to style changes, so it draws the button in the background of the current theme and uses the same icon as everywhere else on the desktop. we would loose that advantage
[11:10] <mvo> so in high contrast it looks correct, whereas a hardcoded black button does stick out
[11:10] <mvo> or worse, if I just take the arrow it will not be visible at all, because the high contrast theme has a black background and that does not mix well with a black arrow
[11:11] <mpt> mvo, what changes are these? Is this implementing the ability to use a GTK button in a treeview cell?
[11:12] <mvo> mpt: if its not very visilbe, shouldn't we change it a in all of the theme?
[11:12] <mvo> mpt: its not a real gtk button, but it comes closer to one than the current code, instead of usig a icon, it will draw a button like border and the stock arrow image in the right direction
[11:12] <mvo> so it will work for rtl language
[11:12] <mvo> our current approach does not
[11:13] <mpt> mvo, ok, that's a worthy sacrifice
[11:13] <mvo> and it will looks right for different themes, the current code does not, just try a high contact theme
[11:13] <nzmm_> mpt: it resembles a button closely, and because i use gtk.Style to do drawing it fits the users current theme much better than a static image
[11:13] <mpt> mvo, I have made a proposal to andreasn of how to introduce symbolic icons, but that will require quite a bit of work (in image-rendering libraries, XDG icon naming spec, and themes)
[11:14] <mvo> mpt: thanks
[11:15] <mvo> mpt: what is the problem with just changing the stock icon for now - I assume your concern about the visibility is valid for all apps, not just software-center?
[11:16] <mpt> mvo, most applications that use those stock icons use them in a toolbar, so they're automatically more prominent.
[11:17] <mpt> mvo, at least, that's true for most places where the icons still show up. :-) (icons in Back and Forward buttons being off by default)
[11:19] <nzmm_> mpt: i was wondering if you had any thoughts regarding the screenshot view of software-center?  I would be keen to have a go at improving it
[11:20] <andreasn> mpt, I thought it sounded sane, and it's something that the gnome-shell devs and others want as well
[11:20] <nzmm_> imagedialog.py
[11:20] <mpt> nzmm_, yes, one thought was just to use your default image viewer
[11:20] <nzmm_> ok
[11:20] <andreasn> mpt, but it needs someone to hack on it and someone to drive it forward
[11:20] <andreasn> and sit through the whole boring xdg discussion etc. :)
[11:20] <mpt> nzmm_, alternatively, give the window a minimal set of menus (including "Edit" > "Copy"), and remove all other chrome from it
[11:21] <nzmm_> ok
[11:21] <nzmm_> how about the downloading process, show progress etc?
[11:21] <mpt> nzmm_, I think the first might make more sense, so that you can print it, save it, e-mail it to your friends, etc
[11:22] <mpt> nzmm_, downloading for the screenshot itself?
[11:22] <nzmm_> yep
[11:23] <mpt> hmmmmmmm
[11:23] <mpt> kwwii! I have a hare-brained idea for you
[11:24] <mpt> kwwii, is it possible for a theme to render a progress bar as a pie chart, instead of a filling bar, whenever its width == its height?
[11:24] <kwwii> oh boy, I've already had discussions with mat_t today ;)
[11:25] <kwwii> mpt: you mean having a vertical progress bar?
[11:26] <mpt> kwwii, no, whenever its width == its height, regardless of orientation
[11:26] <pitti> asac: BTW, I filed the bt icon issue I mentioned yesterday as bug 445326
[11:27] <kwwii> mpt: hrm, I have never seen anything like that before, so I am not sure if it is an issue of the info from gtk or the theme engine
[11:27] <mpt> kwwii, hm, maybe I'm not explaining myself well
[11:28] <mpt> kwwii, what I mean is, the application says "draw me a progress bar that is 16px wide and 16px high, that's currently 40% full". And the theme goes, "aha, width == height, so I won't draw this as a progress bar, I'll draw it as a pie chart that's 40% full instead".
[11:29] <asac> pitti: yes, will check that. its not visible for me here though.
[11:31] <kwwii> mpt: ahhh, now I get it...I guess that would be a matter for gtk more than the theme engine. I've never seen a smart theme engine
[11:31] <mpt> kwwii, and the logical counterpart to this would be, an application saying "draw me a progress bar that is 16px wide and 16px high, and progress is currently indeterminate", and the theme goes, "aha, width == height, and it's indeterminate, so I won't draw this as a progress bar, I'll draw it as a spinner instead".
[11:32] <nzmm_> mpt: i could do a pie chart in cairo.  Wouldnt be too hard
[11:33] <mpt> nzmm_, neat. Centered in the thumbnail while the full screenhot is loading?
[11:33] <pitti> asac: I'm trying with a fresh profile and on live system now; could be gconf cruft, of course
[11:33] <nzmm_> yep i culd do that!
[11:33] <kwwii> mpt: sounds like a very interesting idea
[11:33] <asac>                 if (num_adapters_present > 0 || killswitch != NULL) {
[11:34] <asac>                         show_icon ();
[11:34] <asac> pitti: ^^
[11:34] <asac> pitti: maybe if you say "turn off bluetooth" it disappears?
[11:34] <asac> (might need a applet restart)
[11:34] <nzmm_> in system monitor have a look at the Memory and Swap history section, in the Resources tab.  Is this what you mean?  Have any critique of that implementation?
[11:34] <nzmm_> ^ @ mpt
[11:35] <pitti> asac: my killswitch is on
[11:35] <pitti> asac: it already says it's disabled
[11:35] <asac> oh
[11:35] <pitti> I also tried to toggle it, no change
[11:35] <pitti> asac: was the "|| killswitch" added recently?
[11:35] <asac> yeah. i think the problem is that you have a killswitch at all
[11:35] <asac> for bluetooth
[11:35] <pitti> I usually run this computer with the killswitch on, since I'm on ether and disabled the internal BT in the bios
[11:35] <asac> pitti: no. but killswitch had permission problems which got fixed in this upload
[11:36] <asac> so this probably uncovered your bug
[11:36] <pitti> ah
[11:36] <asac> pitti: the prob is that you have a bluetooth killswitch even though you dont have a bluetooth device
[11:36] <asac> pitti: at least thats what i understood from your bug (e.g. no adapter)
[11:37] <mpt> nzmm_, yes, like that, but without the little bit in the middle
[11:37] <nzmm_> mpt: yep i can do that.
[11:37] <mpt> neat
[11:39] <asac> pitti: you do not have an internal bluetooth device/adapter?
[11:40] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/287705/ ... thats the code that seem to detect a bluetooth killswitch from you
[11:40] <asac> for you
[11:40] <pitti> re
[11:40] <pitti> sorry, X froze, had to reboot
[11:40] <asac> 12:39 < asac> pitti: you do not have an internal bluetooth device/adapter?
[11:40] <asac> 12:40 < asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/287705/ ... thats the code that seem to detect a bluetooth killswitch from you
[11:40] <pitti> asac: I do, but I disabled it in the bios
[11:40] <asac> 12:40 < asac> for you
[11:41] <pitti> asac: I just don't quite understand why it does the killswitch check at all
[11:41] <pitti> if I don't have any adapters, I cannot control them with the killswitch either
[11:41] <pitti> perhaps this was meant to be an &&, not an || ?
[11:41] <asac> i have to check the exact semantics of _present
[11:41] <asac> vs. _powered
[11:42] <mpt> nzmm_, btw, I tried out your path button work and was very impressed
[11:42] <pitti> like "only show if I have adapters and I didn't killswitch them"?
[11:42] <mpt> nzmm_, I did notice a couple of glitches, though, and I wondered what would be the best way to report them
[11:43] <asac> pitti: could be that adapters disappear if you have killswitch on
[11:43] <asac> the adapters_present is from bluez
[11:43] <asac> so maybe bluez already removes them and gnome-bluetooth cannot know whether they are killswitched or not present at all
[11:43] <asac> so it tries to guess that by checking whether rfkill claims that there is a bluetooth killswitch
[11:43] <asac> but i will check that later and talk to hadess
[11:43] <pitti> I see
[11:44] <pitti> asac: so, I disabled the killswitch, and NM now connects to wifi; but I still see the BT icon
[11:44] <nzmm_> mpt: um, what did you see?
[11:45] <asac> pitti: yeah. that || killswitch just checks whether rfkill announced that there is a killswitch. so it has nothing to do with the killswitch state
[11:45] <pitti> *nod*
[11:46] <mpt> nzmm_, one moment, I'll just try it again in case it's fixed already :-)
[11:48] <mpt> mvo, in what situations does that "building local database" step happen? Does it happen the first time anyone ever uses the Center?
[11:50] <pitti> asac: oh, just noticed 61-gnome-bluetooth-rfkill.rules
[11:50] <asac> yes. thats the fix so that rfkill works at all
[11:50] <pitti> asac: I hope that isn't upstream, since ACL_MANAGE is not a promised stable API
[11:50] <mpt> nzmm_, mouse down on a segment, then move one pixel in any direction without leaving the segment. The segment loses its highlight.
[11:50] <pitti> it's just an internal implementation detail of udev
[11:50] <asac> pitti: yes. its in packaging only
[11:50] <pitti> the udev upstream default is MODE="0644"
[11:51] <pitti> asac: if that's generally agreed on, I'm happy to add it to 70-acl.rules upstream
[11:51]  * pitti pokes kay to get a +1
[11:52] <mvo> mpt: no, it only happens when the app-install-data (or app-install-data-partner) gets installed/updated
[11:52] <mvo> mpt: or if software-center is installed for the first time, but it happens on install time, most users should not see it
[11:52] <nzmm_> mpt: ok thats an easy fix
[11:53] <mpt> mvo, how often is app-install-data or app-install-data changed after a release?
[11:54] <mvo> mpt: -partner as often as we get new stuff in partner, app-install-data-ubuntu hardly ever. -partner maybe 3-10 times over 18 months? but if the whole -partner thing catches on more often of course
[11:54] <mvo> mpt: but then, it will be build in the background, the user will only see the screen if he happens to have s-c open during that update
[11:55] <mpt> mvo, what I'm concerned about is the delay between launching and the window appearing
[11:55] <mvo> mpt: what delay?
[11:55] <mvo> mpt: is there one?
[11:56] <mpt> mvo, e.g. I just branched nzmm_'s branch, and it was about 20 seconds delay after launching
[11:56] <mvo> mpt: that is just for bzr checkouts, to allow having different data than the system data
[11:56] <mvo> normal systems are not affected
[11:57] <mpt> mvo, ok, thanks :-) Otherwise we might have needed extra progress feedback of some sort
[11:57] <mvo> mpt: sure, but on regular system, that won't ever happen
[11:59] <asac> pitti: i am not sure its agreed on. but if udev maintainers think thats ok, its probably ok :)
[12:00] <asac> for me it feels a bit more like that should be proxied through bluez ... which runs as root anyway
[12:00] <sabdfl> asac: repro'd the ff error with x
[12:02] <pitti> asac: my feeling as well, since an user shouldn't really have to mess with it directly; but pragmatically, if the big distros all ship this custom udev rule, it's better to put it upstream into the place where it belongs
[12:03] <mpt> nzmm_, also, the highlight color is currently different for a path button segment than it is for a normal button. Is it possible to make them the same?
[12:03] <asac> sabdfl: i uploaded a new xulrunner-1.9.1 with a fix candidate for that this morning.
[12:03] <asac> sabdfl: its 1.9.1.3+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu5
[12:04] <pitti> mpt: I'd welcome your opinion in bug 432635; the proposed solution doesn't seem to be a clear improvement to me, rather introducing one piece of confusion to mitigate another
[12:07] <nzmm_> mpt: its a bit hard because i am currently not sure where buttons get their prelit colour from, in Human at least it doesn;t seem to take it from gtk.STATE_PRELIGHT.  but i can look into it
[12:08] <nzmm_> mpt: i think i fixed the mouse motion + button down issue.  see if you like the behaviour...
[12:08] <asac> pitti: i will talk to #bluez if thats something planned.
[12:08] <mpt> nzmm_, sorry, I meant mousedown color, not mouseover
[12:08] <nzmm_> oh ok
[12:08] <mpt> nzmm_, e.g. in Human it goes chocolate brown on mousedown, whereas normal buttons go darker grey
[12:08] <pitti> asac: kay said to ask Marcel; I'll mail him
[12:09] <nzmm_> mpt: yea i think i can fix that then
[12:10] <asac> pitti: maybe CC me. thx
[12:10] <pitti> sure
[12:10] <mpt> pitti, done (summary: yes please)
[12:10] <pitti> mpt: thanks
[12:11] <mpt> nzmm_, I don't see any difference in behavior between r316 and r317. Did you fix it in an unpushed revision?
[12:11] <mpt> Or is Launchpad just being slow? :-)
[12:12] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i sent a policykit-gnome patch to bugzilla a couple of days ago to stop the authorization status icon from leaving white space in the notification area each time it appears/disappears - do you think its worth applying to our package?
[12:12] <pitti> chrisccoulson: oh, sure
[12:12] <nzmm_> mpt: sorry try 318
[12:13] <chrisccoulson> pitti - cool, i'll push that to bzr later then
[12:13] <pitti> chrisccoulson: there's no bzr any more, I synced with Debian (which uses git-buildpackage)
[12:13] <nzmm_> mpt: i think i forgot to push :/
[12:13] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I can cherrypick it, what's the upstream bug?
[12:13] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok.
[12:13] <chrisccoulson> pitti - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=597346
[12:16] <pitti> asac: oh, seems it was discussed already, see http://www.spinics.net/lists/hotplug/msg02464.html
[12:16] <pitti> asac: so, it should be a temporary hack only, let's keep it in the package for now
[12:18] <asac> ack
[12:19] <mpt_> nzmm_, big improvement in r318 :-)
[12:19] <nzmm_> mpt_: glad to hear!
[12:20] <nzmm_> mpt_: did you see the behaviour if there is more than one part, and you mouse down plus move over parts?  desirable?
[12:21] <mpt_> nzmm_, I was just in the middle of composing a mini-bug-report about that :-)
[12:22] <mpt_> nzmm_, I think they should behave as if they were separate buttons, i.e. dragging across to another segment should highlight nothing rather than highlighting the new one
[12:23] <mpt_> nzmm_, and therefore mousing up on another segment should do nothing too
[12:23] <nzmm_> ok will change
[12:24] <mpt_> thanks
[12:24] <mpt_> nzmm_, what's the duration of the animation?
[12:24] <mpt_> when showing a new segment
[12:25] <nzmm_> 150 msec. you can define both duration and fps in header of the PathBar class in pathbar2.py
[12:25] <nzmm_> so i have 150msec plus 60fps
[12:26] <mpt_> nzmm_, 150 ms? Wow, it looks about 1000 ms
[12:26] <nzmm_> mpt_: serious? set it 1000 and see the diff
[12:27] <nzmm_> mpt_: yea i think i got my math wrong :)  i bad at math hehe
[12:32]  * mpt_ can't find pathbar2.py
[12:33] <mpt_> ah, found it
[12:34] <mpt_> nzmm_, when I set it to 1000, it takes about 1.6 seconds, so there's something not right somewhere
[12:36] <mpt_> nzmm_, but when I set it to 10000, it takes about 11 seconds, not 16. So it's not a multiplication problem.
[12:40] <nzmm_> mpt_: ok i'll have to look at that.
[12:40] <mpt_> nzmm_, what do you think of the idea of running the animation in reverse when you go up the hierarchy? i.e. slide the child back into its parent
[12:41] <nzmm_> yea, something i want too.  but a bit harder to implement
[12:41] <nzmm_> :)
[12:41] <mpt_> ok
[12:41] <nzmm_> so i avoided working on it
[12:42] <nzmm_> oh i pushed a new version. see waht you think of mouse down behaviour
[12:46] <asac> pitti: did anything change recently wrt to udev rules for modem modeswitching?
[12:47] <asac> are those in udev main package now?
[12:47] <pitti> asac: udev didn't change in a while, no
[12:47] <asac> hmm
[12:47] <asac> ok
[12:47] <pitti> if you mean "recently" == "in the last two weeks"
[12:47] <pitti> asac: the last non-trivial change was on September 21
[12:48] <pitti> but even that didn't touch any modem stuff
[12:48] <asac> yeah
[12:51] <mpt_> nzmm_, getting closer. :-) But mouseover appearance needs to be suppressed for other segments while dragging off a segment too. Try in a theme like DarkRoom where the mouseover appearance is prominent.
[12:53] <nzmm_> ok
[12:54] <mpt_> nzmm_, compare with real buttons, e.g. if you drag off an "Install" button and over the "Website" button next to it, the "Website" button doesn't light up at all.
[12:54] <mpt_> whereas if the mouse button was up it would.
[12:55] <pmatulis> anyone heard of grub not being updated (with new kernel) during upgrade from 9.04 to 9.10?
[13:03] <mpt_> pmatulis, during my upgrade it forgot to install the new kernel altogether, and grub also lost my other Ubuntu installation on another partition. Does that count? :-)
[13:04] <mpt_> pmatulis, the Design team also just watched an upgrade from 9.04 to 9.10 beta and we encountered a nasty debconf question about "What do you want to do with grub"
[13:05]  * pmatulis quietly leaves
[13:05] <pmatulis> mpt_: seriously, thanks for those reports
[13:06] <pmatulis> mpt_: but it's not the bug i was after  :)   grub2 had to be installed in order for the karmic kernels to be recognized
[13:06] <mpt_> pmatulis, http://imgur.com/G603C
[13:07] <pmatulis> mpt_: even update-grub wouldn't work
[13:07] <mac_v> lool: could you check my last comment on the volume mute humanity bug , regarding the display properties panel icon bug could you ping the UX team? if they want a greyscale icon for that too
[13:09] <pmatulis> mpt_: yeah, our average users can handle that... can't they?
[13:10] <mpt_> pmatulis, self-fulfilling prophecy
[13:11] <mvo> mpt_: was that a upgrade using the release upgrader? or synaptic?
[13:12] <mpt_> mvo, actually, I just checked, and that was after a clean install of the beta, then running Update Manager
[13:16] <lool> mac_v: updated
[13:20] <nzmm_> mpt_: i think i now have motion plus button down like a regular gtk.Button.  I am off to bed for the night, if you want you can send me a list of items for me to work on via email.
[13:22]  * mpt_ updates and gets no path button at all :-/
[13:41] <mvo> mpt_: use SOFTWARE_CENTER_NEW_PATHBAR=1 ./software-center
[13:42] <mvo> mpt_: I merged it now, but its off by default
[13:55] <mpt_> mvo, thanks :-)
[13:57] <mpt_> mvo, so is the next upload 1.0? :-)
[13:58] <mvo> maybe
[14:05] <mac_v> pitti: regarding Bug 432635 , i havent yet added the icon , since i dont know the icon name to be used. changing the existing shutdown icon to greyscale might cause it showing up in different places
[14:06] <mac_v> pitti: is tedg the right person, or who would know about this?
[14:06] <mac_v> * new name
[14:08] <pitti> mac_v: it needs to be coordinated between you and tedg, I think; however, tedg added the icon to the indicator session code, so I'm not even sure that the theme needs one
[14:09]  * mac_v kills time till tedg logs in ;)
[14:09] <mac_v> pitti: ok ... thanks :)
[14:15] <kenvandine> pitti, i think that was just until it can get added to the theme
[14:15] <kenvandine> but i could be wrong.... that conversation was chaos :)
[14:15] <pitti> kenvandine: but a package should at least ship a hicolor default version, I guess
[14:16] <kenvandine> true
[14:16] <pitti> especially one which isn't covered by the trademark restrictions of humanity
[14:16] <kenvandine> so i know the name
[14:16]  * pitti just realizes the pun there
[14:16] <kenvandine> hehe :)
[14:16] <kenvandine> mac_v, just wait for tedg
[14:16] <kenvandine> pitti, i do have the package prepared and waiting for a thumbs up
[14:17] <pitti> kenvandine: from whom?
[14:17] <kenvandine> rick
[14:17] <kenvandine> he said to wait until this morning
[14:17] <kenvandine> i also think at this point there should just be a release, instead of adding more patches
[14:18] <pitti> *nod*
[14:20] <mvo> asac: why is firefox becoming slow if I have a bunch of tabs (~100) open? is there anything that can be done? will webkit help me here?
[14:22] <pitti> seb128: did you already decide what to do with the gdm su stuff? I need to add another key, and could change it along the way
[14:22] <pitti> seb128: i. e. as a first measure, just call su once instead of four times, and then move to sudo to avoid PAM
[14:22] <mac_v> mpt_: ;p ... just fixed the volume icon and received mail about your comment ... for a moment  , i thought you were going to suggest something other than what ara had , and thought i had to doing something new :( ... you could have started with ara's suggestion is sane ;p
[14:23] <seb128> pitti, bug assigned to chrisccoulson now
[14:23] <mpt_> mac_v, sorry, I'll try to remember that next time
[14:23] <pitti> seb128: I see
[14:23] <seb128> pitti, gdm has magic to have custom g-s-d settings which allow to use the normal schemas thing to set default
[14:23] <seb128> pitti, he wants to do the same for those keys
[14:23]  * mac_v takes note to read mpt_ 's last line first ;) 
[14:24] <seb128> pitti, which one do you want to the change? the gpm icon or something new?
[14:25] <seb128> pitti, I would say wait tonight to get chrisccoulson changes first and then we will add your key
[14:25] <pitti> seb128: I need to set /desktop/gnome/interface/icon_theme=HumanLoginIcons
[14:25] <pitti> okay
[14:25] <pitti> seb128: I'll commit it to bzr, but not upload it yet
[14:25] <seb128> pitti, ok, I can do that when I sponsor chrisccoulson's changes
[14:26] <seb128> pitti, well free to upload your changes for now
[14:26] <pitti> okay
[14:26] <seb128> pitti, but don't spend too much energy making it robust that's going to change
[14:26] <pitti> no, but rewriting it to use su once instead of three times is simple
[14:26] <seb128> using sudo will not solve the .gvfs permissions issues
[14:26] <pitti> su -s /bin/sh gdm <<EOF
[14:26] <pitti> command1
[14:26] <pitti> command2
[14:26] <pitti> EOF
[14:26] <seb128> right
[14:26] <seb128> go for it
[14:26] <seb128> just don't bother trying to fix the gvfs thing
[14:27] <pitti> ok
[14:27]  * pitti uploads new human-theme; yay for freeing 2 MB of CD space
[14:28] <seb128> pitti, will we get a new gtk humanlogin theme?
[14:28] <pitti> just some new icons
[14:28]  * seb128 finds the current one not nice
[14:28] <seb128> :-(
[14:28] <asac> mvo: chromium-browser is faster ... yes.
[14:28] <pitti> it's way too dark for my taste
[14:28] <seb128> I liked colored themes
[14:29] <seb128> same here
[14:29] <seb128> I'm pondeing putting the gtk-theme type back ;-)
[14:30] <mpt_> Black is cruise-control for cool in the same way that Caps Lock is cruise-control for awesome
[14:31] <seb128> the gtk theme making default buttons look like they were pressed is weird too
[14:31] <lool> mac_v: Note that ara is not ~canonical-ux
[14:31] <seb128> I keep thinking "why is that button pressed if I didn't click on it"
[14:31] <pitti> +1
[14:31] <mac_v> lool: yup ,
[14:32] <mac_v> lool: but mpt_ nearly made me skip a beat ;)
[14:32] <lool> Yes
[14:35] <mpt_> seb128, yeah, that's bugging me too
[14:36] <seb128> mpt_, do you know if somebody will change that before karmic?
[14:36] <mpt_> kwwii, do you know why that's happening?
[14:36] <mpt_> seb128, I don't know
[14:37] <mac_v> lool: mpt_: i added the icon for the volume 0 but still the volume applet uses the volume mute when volume 0  , so its now a bug in the applet
[14:38] <mac_v> stock_volume-0
[14:38] <mpt_> mac_v, I don't remember, but I doubt it's a regression from 9.04 in that case
[14:39] <seb128> volume_0 = mute
[14:39] <seb128> I think it's to workaround some cards still making some sound when not muted
[14:39] <seb128> I could be wrong though ;-)
[14:39] <mac_v> mpt_: the volume applet is different in karmic from jaunty... i too dont remember what volume 0 showed
[14:43] <seb128> pedro_, there is no libeel since jaunty that's in nautilus source now
[14:43] <kwwii> mpt_: honestly, I think that was a design decision from the coder who changed it ;)
[14:43] <seb128> who is that?
[14:43] <pedro_> seb128, oh right i forget about that, assigning back, thanks
[14:48] <mvo> slomo: do you have any idea why "python -c 'import gst'" gives me a "AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'Element'" error (but continues)
[14:48] <mvo> slomo: on karmic/amd64
[14:48] <mpt_> kwwii, could you possibly persuade them to change it? ;-)
[14:48] <mvo> slomo: it seems to be happening when loading the .gstreamer-0.10/registry
[14:48] <kwwii> mpt_: erm, sorry...I misread
[14:48] <dobey> mac_v: unmounted devices are the drives, and mounted devices are the media
[14:49] <kwwii> mpt_: that problem is fixed in the latest theme upload (about an hour or so ago)
[14:49] <mpt_> kwwii, cool, thanks. seb128 and I give you a virtual group hug.
[14:49] <kwwii> mpt_: check it to see when it is updated
[14:49] <kwwii> :)
[14:49] <mac_v> kwwii: which update do you mean? 0.4.1?
[14:50] <mac_v> or the bzr
[14:50] <mac_v> yeah , tedg is here \o/
[14:50] <kwwii> mac_v: what is in bzr atm, is what is in the upload
[14:50] <kwwii> mac_v: but I am not talking about the icon
[14:50] <mac_v> oh ok
[14:50] <kwwii> I am talking about the human theme gtkrc
[14:51] <kwwii> mac_v: I was confused at first :)
[14:51] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[14:52] <mac_v> tedg: the icon for indicator-system-shutdown , to be used in the panel , is it a 16px icon?
[14:53] <mac_v> tedg: the user-status icons used are 16px , but you'v added the icon for indicator-system-shutdown in sizes 16 , 22 , 24px
[14:53] <tedg> mac_v: No, it is GTK_ICON_SIZE_MENU, which is adjustable.
[14:53] <tedg> mac_v: By default, it is 16px.
[14:54] <mac_v> tedg: so is a 16px size is sufficient? for that menu..
[14:54] <tedg> mac_v: And the icon name changed again, now it's "system-shutdown-panel"
[14:54] <mac_v> oh!
[14:54] <kwwii> which is a mistake, if you ask me
[14:54] <tedg> mac_v: I would say that 16px alone is not sufficient -- but whatever.
[14:54] <tedg> kwwii: The name change?
[14:55] <kwwii> tedg: yes
[14:55] <tedg> kwwii: The reason for that is the icon naming spec :)
[14:55] <kwwii> tedg: ?
[14:55] <mac_v> tedg: the indicator- makes more sense
[14:55] <tedg> kwwii: It specifies that there should be a fallback to go down the "hyphen" as backup.  So if there is no "system-shutdown-panel" it should try "system-shutdown" which seems like a good idea.
[14:56] <tedg> kwwii: Unfortunately GTK isn't doing that today, we've filed a bug for it.
[14:56] <kwwii> tedg: yeah, that does suck, actually
[14:56] <kwwii> tedg: funny that the people who pushed the spec are the last ones to implement it :D
[14:57] <tedg> kwwii: But, since we dont' care about freeze -- we should just patch GTK blindly after beta freeze ;)
[14:57] <mac_v> tedg: kwwii: system-shutdown-panel will be the final icon name? :) i'll upload it
[14:57] <seb128> tedg, it does
[14:57] <tedg> mac_v: It is final as of right now ;)
[14:57] <mac_v> ;)
[14:57] <tedg> seb128: yes, but all of the functions that use it don't set the flag to enable it.
[14:57] <seb128> what do you mean?
[14:58] <mclasen_> tedg: sure gtk does that
[14:58] <kwwii> I hope that someone is at least including something in the package so that all the other themes are still usable?
[14:58] <tedg> seb128: GtkImage calls the icon theme to look up the icon, but doesn't use the fallback flag.
[14:59] <tedg> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=597618
[14:59] <mclasen_> yeah, it doesn't do it blindly everywhere, that is true
[15:02] <seb128> tedg, that's quite different from saying that gtk doesn't implement the fallback...
[15:03] <tedg> seb128: How about "doesn't do it in the API that everyone uses"? ;)
[15:04] <tedg> It is a feature that should be sold more, I think that most people don't know about it.
[15:05] <mac_v> dobey: just to confirm , any icon name which starts with drive-* will be used for unmounted drives and media-* will be mounted right?
[15:05] <dobey> mac_v: that's the concept, yes
[15:05] <mac_v> dobey: ok , thanks :)
[15:05] <dobey> mac_v: though there are cases where that's not entirely true (hard disk)
[15:06] <mac_v> dobey: what is used for unmounted internal drives?
[15:07] <mac_v> rather internal partitions*
[15:09] <pitti> meh, I want my blinking empathy icon back
[15:09] <dobey> mac_v: i think drive-harddisk is used for both cases
[15:09] <seb128> pitti++
[15:09] <pitti> I keep missing conversations now, a gray envelope is soooooooo far away from raising attention
[15:09] <pitti> tedg, kenvandine: ^ anything planned in that direction?
[15:10] <pitti> it makes ICQ pretty much useless for me, and people just get angry
[15:10] <dobey> pitti: it doesn't have the green dot? :P
[15:10] <pitti> no
[15:10] <kenvandine> pitti, do you get the colored in envelope now?
[15:10] <tedg> pitti: I'd change your icon theme.  That's what I've done :)
[15:10] <pitti> but even if it had a small green dot, I'd still miss it
[15:10] <tedg> pitti: What about the notification?
[15:10] <dobey> ok, wtf
[15:11] <mac_v> dobey: seems so too , but isnt that wrong ? how do we differentiate a mounted from unmounted...
[15:11] <kenvandine> pitti, the filled in envelope works for me, at least as good as the green dot ever did
[15:11] <kenvandine> that combined with notify-osd :)
[15:11] <kwwii> seb128: is there a bug reported about the fading to the desktop?
[15:12] <dobey> bad rhythmbox!
[15:12] <kenvandine> tedg, you should make the indicator icon blink on draw-attention :)
[15:12]  * kenvandine ducks
[15:12] <tedg> kenvandine: I think I'll make it start flying around the screen like a banshee :)
[15:12] <dobey> mac_v: is there really a need to?
[15:12]  * kenvandine rofl
[15:13] <pitti> kenvandine: not really; I have several duplicate entries of conversations with people there, and selecting them just crashes empathy
[15:13] <pitti> tedg: yay! :-)
[15:13] <kenvandine> oh!
[15:13] <mac_v> dobey: yes , why not? it was easier when displaying the state in the places menu , whether the partition was mounted or not
[15:13] <kenvandine> pitti, i am trying to reproduce that now :)
[15:13] <mac_v> dobey: now all states look the same :(
[15:13] <dobey> mac_v: if it's unmounted it should just mount and open
[15:14] <dobey> mac_v: when you click on it in places menu, or when you double click or whatever inside computer:///
[15:15] <dpm> seb128, re: telling ubuntu translators about gdmsetup... what's the source package name? I can't find it in LP, and gdm only seems to have one template
[15:15] <dobey> though i'm not sure why Places menu shows unmounted volumes anyway
[15:15] <seb128> dpm, gdm
[15:15] <mac_v> dobey: yes , that works , but there is no identification unless i select the partition. so i would only know when i do that whether the partition is mounted or not... not earlier
[15:15] <kenvandine> pitti, do you recall any specific workflow you experienced when they both showed up?
[15:15] <dobey> mac_v: huh?
[15:15] <kenvandine> like did you open the conversation without using the indicator?
[15:15] <kenvandine> etc?
[15:15] <pitti> kenvandine: that could be, yes
[15:15] <pitti> kenvandine: try sending something to me
[15:15] <kenvandine> ok
[15:16] <dpm> dpm, but gdm has only got the 'gdm' package, I can't find an additional 'gdmsetup' template or similar, unless it's still in the imports queue
[15:16] <mac_v> dobey: previously i could tell the state of the partition from the icon , now since there is no icon change , i dont know if the drive is mounted or not , until i open the partition from the places menu or the computer:///  , or i have to check the properties
[15:16] <dobey> mac_v: "previously"?
[15:17] <mac_v> dobey: until intrepid/jaunty
[15:17] <dobey> mac_v: you haven't clarified why it matters if it's mounted or not
[15:17] <dpm> seb128, but gdm has only got the 'gdm' package, I can't find an additional 'gdmsetup' template or similar, unless it's still in the imports queue
[15:17] <dpm> s/package/template
[15:17] <seb128> dpm, no, I meant the gdm strings for the gdmsetup tool
[15:17] <seb128> dpm, they are in the gdm source and template
[15:18] <seb128> dpm, but people consider gdm as being translated by GNOME and don't check for extra strings in launchpad
[15:18] <dpm> Ok, now I understand
[15:18] <seb128> dpm, sorry I was not clean
[15:18] <mac_v> dobey: it matters because , since *now* [karmic] mounting partitions is not possible without asking for admin password , also when othr drives are able to show the state why is the partition being the exception?
[15:18] <dobey> mac_v: places menu probably shouldn't show unmounted volumes
[15:18] <dpm> seb128, no worries. I'll tell translators
[15:18] <seb128> dpm, thanks
[15:19] <mac_v> dobey: places menu doesnt show ejected volumes , but shows unmounted partitions
[15:19] <dobey> mac_v: it's not an exception
[15:19] <dobey> mac_v: the places menu should match what you see on the desktop + bookmarks, i think
[15:20] <mac_v> dobey: no , once the volume is unmounted , it disappears from the desktop , while being displayed in the places menu ... but if ejected it disappears from both
[15:21] <dobey> mac_v: yes i know how it currently works
[15:21] <dobey> mac_v: i'm saying how i think it SHOULD work
[15:21] <mac_v> ;)
[15:21] <dobey> and having both "unmount" and "eject" on volumes makes no sense. they should just hae "eject"
[15:21] <dobey> which probably doesn't really make any sense either
[15:21] <mac_v> yeah
[15:21] <dobey> so it should just be "unmount"
[15:22] <mac_v> dobey: that was done to actually , eject all partitions of the drives at once
[15:22] <dobey> memory cards/usb/etc... don't really have an "eject" mechanism
[15:22] <kklimonda> the almost empthy tree in administration->authorizations application is the result of migration from hal and it won't be "fixed" for 9.10?
[15:23] <mac_v> dobey: yeah , thats a bit messed up
[15:23] <dobey> only type of media i have that does to that, is optical
[15:24] <mac_v> dobey: back to the internal partitions ... while the rest of the external volumes change the icons for the unmount and mount states...  only the partitions dont change the icons , it would be better to show this change with different types of icons too :)
[15:25] <dobey> mac_v: the problem with hard disks is that the drive and media are always the same :)
[15:25] <dobey> internal ones are anyway
[15:26] <mac_v> dobey: the filesystem can use the media-harddisk icon , while the unmounted partitions can use the drive-harddisk icon :)
[15:26] <dobey> mac_v: uhm, but they will be the exact same icon
[15:26] <dobey> mac_v: how would they be different?
[15:27] <mac_v> dobey: we make icons show the change , like how it was done previously in human, adding a green dot to show active
[15:27] <dobey> mac_v: hard disks don't have "media"
[15:27] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[15:28] <dobey> either they don't have media, or they are the media, and we should get rid of drive-harddisk, and just use drive-removable-media perhaps
[15:29] <mac_v> dobey: or drive-harddisk-mounted  , drive-harddisk-unmounted ... or any name which allows different icons :)
[15:29] <dobey> no
[15:29] <mac_v> dobey: oh , did you mean drive-removable-media for the unmounted internal partitions too?
[15:29] <dobey> yes
[15:30] <slomo> seb128: you synced the wrong gst-plugins-base... you want .25-2 ;)
[15:30] <mac_v> thats awesome
[15:30] <mac_v> dobey: ^
[15:30] <seb128> slomo, ok thanks
[15:30] <dobey> which would at least satisfy things like hot-swappable disks
[15:30] <seb128> slomo, I forgot that you uploaded to experimental
[15:30] <slomo> mvo: no, i have the too... but i don't know enough about python to debug it ;) could you file a bug at bugzilla.gnome.org against gstreamer (component gst-python) ? :)
[15:30] <slomo> seb128: np :)
[15:31] <mac_v> dobey: yeah... anything works for me... :)  as long as there is possibility to show a different icon for mount and unmount
[15:32] <dobey> mac_v: unfortunately it's not a simple change
[15:32] <mac_v> :(
[15:33] <dobey> but could probably be done for gnome 2.30 (lucid)
[15:33] <dobey> but since 2.28 is already out, and karmic is already in feature/ui freezes, and final freeze is next week...
[15:34] <mac_v> dobey: didnt it work previously with gnome-vfs or is it difficult with only gvfs
[15:34] <mac_v> dobey: argh! we can get a FFE ;)
[15:34] <dobey> i don't know what it did previously
[15:47] <rickspencer3> pitti, asac can we meet later today when bryce is online?
[15:48] <rickspencer3> to discuss how to proceed with X?
[15:55] <chrisccoulson1> pitti - did some property names change in dk-power?
[16:01] <pitti> rickspencer3: just replied to the mail; but sure
[16:01] <pitti> chrisccoulson1: yes, all of them
[16:01] <pitti> chrisccoulson1: they were converted from dash-type to CamelCase to be suitable for KDE
[16:01] <chrisccoulson1> pitti - thanks
[16:01] <pitti> but ideally that should just be an internal detail
[16:01] <pitti> I did have to upload a new g-p-m, though
[16:02] <chrisccoulson1> because it waas statically linked against libdevkit-power-gobject?
[16:02] <pitti> chrisccoulson1: btw, I uploaded a new gdm with a new gconf setting; seb128 said you were going to replace the su calls with something more robust and static, but didn't want me to block on that
[16:02] <pitti> chrisccoulson1: I seriously hope it wasn't :)
[16:03] <chrisccoulson1> no problem - i'm going to work on the g-s-d changes this evening so we can drop the su calls
[16:03] <chrisccoulson1> i saw slangasek talking about stuff being statically linked against libdevkit-power-gobject due to a missing dependency on the -dev package
[16:04] <chrisccoulson1> i was just wondering, because gnome-session is broken too
[16:04] <chrisccoulson1> lots of errors due to the changed property names
[16:04] <pitti> ah, so that was it
[16:05] <pitti> *headdesk*
[16:05] <pitti> chrisccoulson1: so we need a gnome-session no-change upload? shall I do one now?
[16:05] <chrisccoulson1> pitti - if you don't mind please:)
[16:06]  * pitti checks $ checkrdepends -b libdevkit-power-gobject-dev karmic
[16:06] <pitti> ok, it's just gdm (which I uploaded an hour ago anyway), g-p-m (which I did), and gnome-session
[16:06] <chrisccoulson1> cool, thanks!
[16:07]  * Ng wonders if DarkRoom should have Humanity-Dark icons
[16:17] <pitti> chrisccoulson1: done (sorry for delay, involved in IRC)
[16:17] <chrisccoulson1> pitti - thanks
[16:20]  * seb128 hates gconf and translations now
[16:24] <seb128> \o/
[16:24] <seb128> I found why what the issue is
[16:36] <rickspencer3> bug 445479
[16:36] <rickspencer3> bug 444548
[16:36] <seb128> rickspencer3, is that something you point or just a quick way to get urls?
[16:36] <rickspencer3> sort of
[16:37] <rickspencer3> actually, ivanka just pinged me and said she cares about these bugs
[16:37] <rickspencer3> so I want to discuss them in a public place
[16:37]  * seb128 reads the first one
[16:37] <rickspencer3> hi ivanka
[16:37] <rickspencer3> :)
[16:37] <ivanka> hi :)
[16:37] <seb128> I know the mute thing was discussed before, but mute == volume_0
[16:37] <rickspencer3> seb128, so that is just a matter of what icon is in the theme?
[16:38] <seb128> well depends of what desktop part you speak about
[16:38] <seb128> the volume applet with consider volume 0 as muted
[16:38]  * seb128 opens that bug too 
[16:38] <seb128> rickspencer3, #445479 ... I would say it's a xsplash bug no? we get gdm, xsplash, desktop
[16:39] <seb128> there is no gdm to desktop transition
[16:39] <rickspencer3> seb128, correct
[16:39] <seb128> it's gdm to xsplash and xsplash to desktop, or I don't understand the bug
[16:39] <rickspencer3> it could be xsplash, compiz, or x
[16:39] <seb128> bratsche, ^ any clue?
[16:40] <seb128> rickspencer3, I reassigned to xsplash it will be nearer than gdm
[16:40] <rickspencer3> it's not clear, perhaps xsplash is not loading for him?
[16:40] <seb128> the bug lacks detail to say
[16:40] <ivanka> mpt, mt ^
[16:40] <seb128> I would try to see if that happens to everybody to start
[16:40] <seb128> or if that's a one user thing
[16:41] <bratsche> bug #445479
[16:41] <rickspencer3> wtf
[16:42] <rickspencer3> launchpad is acting very screwy for me
[16:42]  * rickspencer3 tries to get more info on the bug again
[16:42] <chrisccoulson1> "I see the silent icon and I think I have to turn the volume up. Nothing happens." - that sounds like a gnome-media bug which is already fixed upstream, where the slider won't unmute the channel
[16:42] <seb128> rickspencer3, I did reassign to xsplash so if you try to make change on the bug your loaded while it was on gdm it will break
[16:42] <chrisccoulson1> unless i'm misunderstanding the statemement
[16:42] <rickspencer3> seb128, weird
[16:42] <mat_t> rickspencer3: ivanka's having problems with Empathy, needs to reboot and will join your debate
[16:42] <rickspencer3> debate?
[16:42] <seb128> rickspencer3, not weird, launchpad has always been like that
[16:43] <rickspencer3> it seems like a "this bug has been changed while you were editing it, I am reloading with the changes" message would be nicer than strange server error
[16:43] <rickspencer3> I'll make this "needs info", and assign to mpt so we can get the skinny assap
[16:43] <rickspencer3> asap too
[16:44] <seb128> rickspencer3, thanks
[16:44] <mat_t> rickspencer3: conversation? Discourse? Chat? ;)
[16:44] <rickspencer3> we are working on solving ivanka's problems
[16:44] <seb128> chrisccoulson1, it's sort of orthogonal, the gnome-media will make you not be able to move the slider
[16:44] <seb128> +bug
[16:45] <mat_t> rickspencer3: yeah, exactly, that's why she wants to join :)
[16:45] <mat_t> ok, I'm out of that one, only passing the message
[16:45] <chrisccoulson1> seb128 - that was what i interpreted the issue to be (although i havent read the whole bug yet)
[16:45] <chrisccoulson1> i'm probably wrong though ;)
[16:45] <rickspencer3> seb128, so I'm confused (as usual) -
[16:45] <seb128> ara, ^
[16:46] <seb128> ara, could you explain what your issue with mute is exactly?
[16:46] <rickspencer3> gnome panel no longer supports a separate mute icon?
[16:46]  * rickspencer3 waits for ara
[16:46] <chrisccoulson1> yes, it has a separate mute icon
[16:46]  * ara -> on the phone
[16:46] <seb128> rickspencer3, I've to check but I would not be surprised if when the volume was = 0 it would toggle mute on too
[16:46] <seb128> ie there is no way to get no volume unmuted
[16:47] <rickspencer3> I see
[16:47] <dobey> seb128: i'll poke through that intltool bug you asked about last night, as soon as i can
[16:47] <rickspencer3> so seems that volume == 0 is using mute
[16:47] <rickspencer3> and that's baked into the upstream code?
[16:47] <seb128> I would have to check but I think the rational is that mute make sure you have no sound
[16:47] <seb128> on some card you might still hear sound with volume=0
[16:47] <chrisccoulson1> seb128 / rickspencer3 - the intended behaviour is that when you adjust the slider to 0, the channel mutes and you see a mute icon. when you adjust the slider back above 0, it should automatically unmute - but this bit doesn't work yet
[16:47] <chrisccoulson1> however
[16:47] <seb128> so toggling mute on assure the system is no making sound
[16:47] <rickspencer3> on my computer, mute just sets volume = 0
[16:48] <rickspencer3> so I can turn up the volume with the slider after muting
[16:48] <chrisccoulson1> the behaviour is different for sliders which show a mute button
[16:48] <rickspencer3> and it turns off mute automatically
[16:48] <seb128> right, that bit is fixed upstream now
[16:48] <seb128> there is a new tarball that TheMuso will probably package when he has time
[16:48] <seb128> he does gnome-media updates usually
[16:49] <seb128> (the tarball has been rolled some hours ago)
[16:49] <rickspencer3> seb128, is it possible that the whole issue is solved in that upstream release?
[16:49] <seb128> that bit = "don't unmute when moving the slider"
[16:49] <rickspencer3> oh
[16:49] <rickspencer3> hmm, seems like a feature, not a bug to me, but oh well
[16:49] <seb128> rickspencer3, no, the "slider is sticky on mute" is fixed
[16:50] <seb128> but again I'm not sure to understand what the confusion is
[16:50] <seb128> so I will wait for people to give us details
[16:50] <rickspencer3> I think the confusion is that having the volume turned all the way down, is not the same as muting
[16:50] <rickspencer3> so like on your tv, you can have the volum set to 20, and then you mute
[16:50] <seb128> how is it different?
[16:50] <rickspencer3> you see the little mute icon
[16:50] <chrisccoulson1> http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gnome-media/commit/?id=bda054815bcb92c9bb269c4f6c282a6238c6b059 has a good explanation of how the volume slider in the applet and the preferences should work
[16:51] <rickspencer3> when you unmute, it sets turns off the icon, and sets the volume back to 20
[16:51] <rickspencer3> so mute != (volume == 0)
[16:51] <rickspencer3> so I think the want:
[16:51] <rickspencer3> 1. user turns slider all the way down, show volume = 0 icon
[16:51] <rickspencer3> 2. user mutes, show mute icon
[16:52] <seb128> I think not doing 1. is a choice
[16:52] <ivanka> I wanted to say what rickspencer3 was saying but my messages were going nowhere
[16:52] <seb128> to make sure that you still don't have sound
[16:52] <ivanka> it was like shouting in a hurricane
[16:52] <seb128> ie volume0 might still output something on some cards
[16:52] <rickspencer3> seb128, ok
[16:52] <rickspencer3> I think the issue with with #2
[16:52] <seb128> wfm
[16:53] <seb128> eog /usr/share/icons/Humanity/status/24/stock_volume-mute.svg
[16:53] <seb128> seems similar to the icon I see when muting
[16:53] <rickspencer3> so the problem seems to be that there is no mute icon in the theme
[16:53] <rickspencer3> or rather, the mute icon is the same as the volume = 0 icon
[16:53] <seb128> stock_volume-mute.svg -> audio-volume-muted.svg
[16:53] <ivanka> so, if we sort that out like, now, can it get fixed?
[16:54] <seb128> ups, ignore that
[16:54] <seb128> not by me
[16:54] <rickspencer3> seb128, do they not need to add a stock_volume-mute.svg to the themes and release the themes?
[16:54] <seb128> I'm in no way an artist to draw an icon
[16:54] <seb128> rickspencer3, I think so
[16:54] <rickspencer3> ivanka, I believe the bug is the theme, not in the applet
[16:55] <ivanka> rickspencer3: ok, so, we fix the theme and the fix goes in?
[16:55] <rickspencer3> ivanka, I'll help you after our call
[16:55] <ivanka> thank you
[16:55] <rickspencer3> seb128, chrisccoulson1 thanks guts!!
[16:55] <seb128> you're welcome
[16:55] <rickspencer3> uh, thanks guys, even
[16:55] <rickspencer3> :)
[16:56] <seb128> rickspencer3, still not clear if the other bug is a every user issue or a one user one if you can get details
[16:56] <seb128> rickspencer3, the xsplash one
[16:56] <chrisccoulson1> no problem :)
[16:56] <rickspencer3> seb128, right, but that's on the dx team, I think
[16:56] <ivanka> seb128: we get it on a few different machines
[16:56] <seb128> ivanka, could you describe the issue? the bug says the transition gdm to desktop is buggy but there is no such transition, it should be gdm, xsplash, desktop loading
[16:57] <seb128> ivanka, you don't get xsplash? or you mean xsplash to desktop loading?
[16:57] <mac_v> rickspencer3: seb128 i just added a new volume 0 icons ,but thats doesnt solved the problem
[16:57] <mac_v> that*
[16:57] <seb128> mac_v, right click and picking mute doesn't show the mute icon
[16:58] <ivanka> seb128: mac_v: just give me 2 minutes please
[16:58] <ara> seb128, I am here again
[16:58] <ara> seb128, do you need any other clarification?
[16:58] <seb128> ara, I'm not really sure what confuses you with the icon right now so if you could explain it quickly that would be nice
[16:59] <pedro_> bratsche, hola, have you seen bug 442666 ? is that an xsplash issue?
[17:00] <ara> seb128, sure. turn the volume down until the bottom -> you see the muted icon -> right click and uncheck mute -> now, it is not muted (0 volume, but not muted) but we have the same exact icon
[17:00] <seb128> pedro_, that should be fixed in the current gdm
[17:00] <seb128> ara, ok, that's a theme issue apparently, there is no mute icon in humanity
[17:00] <pedro_> seb128, nice, will ask for confirmation there then, thanks
[17:00] <ara> seb128, yes, there is
[17:00] <ara> seb128, or I thought there was
[17:01] <mac_v> seb128: ara: i just added a new icon as ara and mpt_  described , but that doesnt solve the problem , the applet uses volume mute icon even for volume =0
[17:01] <seb128> ara, it's a copy of the volume_0 one
[17:01] <seb128> I just tried with clearlooks theme it works fine there
[17:01] <seb128> ara, can you try with clearlooks?
[17:01]  * ara tries
[17:01] <seb128> mac_v, the applet active mute when you move the slider to bottom
[17:01] <seb128> mac_v, is that your issue? right click and pick unmute and the icon change
[17:02] <seb128> I just tried with clearlooks, works as expected
[17:02] <ara> seb128, I get the same thing with clearlooks
[17:03] <seb128> ok, so I move down I get the red cross icon
[17:03] <seb128> I right click and pick the mute option
[17:03] <seb128> the red crossing goes away
[17:03] <ara> seb128, for me the red cross does not go away :-\
[17:04] <seb128> seems my slider was not to 0 bit a bit further up, I will try the gnome-media update
[17:10] <mac_v> ara: seb128: pls see me last comment on the bug :( , its *was* probably a theme bug , but now surely an applet bug , the applet uses only volume mute icon for both volume mute and volume=0
[17:11] <seb128> mac_v, right, a corner case issue I would say because it automute when you reach volume0 anyway
[17:11] <seb128> mac_v, it's not likely that anybody unmute to stay on volume 0
[17:12] <seb128> mac_v, but I will have a look
[17:12] <mac_v> seb128: i agree  , volume mute=volume0 .. but still ;)
[17:12] <mac_v> anyways , i'v added the icon  , so its not humanity bug \o/
[17:29] <davmor2> Guys do you know that the icon in Applying changes in Update Manager shows a black terminal with a no entry sign in it?
[17:32] <and471> davmor2: that is the icon for a window that has no been set any icon, if you want you can fix it
[17:33] <and471> mpt_: did you see the design mockups for software center by MadsRH?
[17:33] <mpt_> and471, was this the gradient, or something else?
[17:34] <and471> mpt_: yeah the accordion thing
[17:34] <mpt_> and471, accordion thing? I don't think so
[17:34] <and471> mpt_: that is what it is called
[17:34] <and471> mpt_: bottom of SoftwareStore/Comments on the wiki
[17:35] <mpt_> ah
[17:35] <mpt_> iiiiiiinteresting
[17:36] <mpt_> Looks like it works fine with only five departments ;-)
[17:38] <mpt_> hey glatzor
[17:38] <glatzor> hey mpt_ !
[17:38] <glatzor> mpt_, how are you?
[17:39] <mpt_> glatzor, very busy :-]
[17:39] <mpt_> glatzor, will you be at UDS (or did you apply for sponsorship)?
[17:41] <dashua> Are users going to be able to install epiphany-gecko if they choose not to like the webkit version?
[17:41] <dashua> As now there are dependency issues.
[17:41] <seb128> dashua, no
[17:41] <seb128> dashua, if you want to use gecko you can as well use firefox
[17:41] <dashua> seb128, Ok thx.
[17:44] <glatzor> mpt_, I was already offered a sponsorship, but I cannot say anything before next week since I would have to take off from work
[17:44] <mpt_> ok
[17:47] <pmatulis> what's the password for user 'ubuntu' in a jaunty live session?
[17:48] <seb128> pmatulis, did you try ubuntu there?
[17:49] <seb128> pmatulis, or nothing
[17:49] <pmatulis> seb128: yeah
[17:49] <seb128> where do you want to enter it?
[17:49] <pmatulis> it's an academic question, i want to ssh to the session without changing the p/w
[17:49] <seb128> not sure there is one set
[17:49] <pmatulis> shadow shows an encrypted one
[17:49] <seb128> sudo just works and the gdm screen accept to just hit enter
[17:50] <seb128> you better ask on #ubuntu-devel about such questions
[17:50] <pmatulis> ok
[17:51] <seb128> specify what you try to do too while asking there ;-)
[18:08] <asac> hmm. today the playlist on last.fm in rhythmbox stays empty
[18:08] <asac> was there an update wrt to rhytmbox or something?
[18:09] <asac> seems not
[18:09] <asac> assume its last.fm server problem then
[18:10] <seb128> pitti, still around?
[18:11] <pitti> seb128: o/
[18:36] <pitti> good night everyone, time for Taekwondo
[18:36] <rickspencer3> bye pitti
[18:45] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - it's only the gtk theme and icon theme you want to change in GDM isn't it? (ie, do you think there'll be a need for changing the cursor theme or metacity theme)?
[18:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson, look to the current bzr
[18:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson, there is 3 themes to change and we will probably want to change a gpm key too if possible to not show the notification icon
[18:47] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. thanks!
[18:47] <chrisccoulson> changing the gpm key would probably be another change though
[18:47] <chrisccoulson> but i can do the rest in g-s-d quite easily
[18:47] <seb128> ok, let's start with that
[18:51]  * seb128 dinner bbl
[18:52] <asac> a NM contributor wonders if this is a bug 445674 any ideas?
[18:56]  * mac_v likes the bug title ;)
[18:57]  * hggdh would rather use 24H times...
[19:10] <djsiegel> So, when I open GNOME Terminal or xterm, bash won't take any input
[19:10] <djsiegel> and xterm or GT stops responding and I have to killall or xkill with alt-F2
[19:13] <dobey> asac: sounds like it might possibly be a bug to me. it should probably use whatever the system-wide LC_TIME is
[19:20] <asac> dobey: he has LC_TIME="en_US...."
[19:20] <asac> dobey: where would one configure to just use a different time?
[19:20] <asac> shouldnt gdm and the clock applet use the same setting?
[19:23] <dobey> asac: i don't know. i'm saying it should be uisng that already. if it isn't, i would say it's a bug :)
[19:23] <asac> kk
[19:23] <dobey> asac: and if there is a specific setting in the applet, it wouldn't affect gdm, no, as it's a per-user setting
[19:24] <asac> yes, thats too obvious :-P
[19:24] <dobey> although if there's a clock applet in the gdm thing, i suppose there could be another setting for it, set somewhere and exposed to be settable by the user
[19:29] <seb128> asac: no, gdm is a system config and the user session an user one
[19:29] <seb128> asac: ie the login screen will have system default but any user can define different locales, keyboard layout, etc
[19:30] <asac> seb128: where does a user change system default?
[19:30] <asac> is it just determined by system locale?
[19:30] <seb128> asac: which ones? the locale and keyboard layout come from etc whatever the installer set which is not desktop specific
[19:30] <asac> or can user choose a different system date format?
[19:31] <seb128> the format comes from the locale usually
[19:31] <seb128> I don't think you can change it
[19:31] <asac> seb128: ok. so there is no way to change that through gnome UI atm?
[19:31] <asac> ok
[19:31] <seb128> what is the issue you are trying to solve?
[19:32] <asac> bug 445674
[19:32] <asac> i would have expected that there is a "Settings ..." at gdm level where one can change language at least
[19:32] <asac> or even better also select system time format etc.
[19:34] <seb128> asac: do you think it's an important bug to fix for karmic?
[19:34] <seb128> seems rather a minor cosmetic issue
[19:34] <asac> no. i just wanted to ask if its a bug
[19:34] <asac> or just a missing feature
[19:34] <seb128> it's a lack of option
[19:34] <asac> yeah
[19:35] <asac> i will set it to wishlist then
[19:35] <seb128> thanks
[19:35] <seb128> ok, I've to go, bbl
[19:46] <dobey> mac_v: oi. i really don't want to read all of that conversation :)
[19:48] <mac_v> dobey: ;) ... IMO , this seems unnecessarily breaking something and asking others to fix it elsewhere... but anyways :)
[19:49]  * mac_v hopes someone is able to convince davidz 
[19:50] <dobey> mac_v: i don't think it actually broke anything
[19:50] <dobey> mac_v: but davidz is stuck on this whole "protocol is important" idea of his
[19:50] <dobey> mac_v: and i think he's the only person that actually truly cares about whether a hard disk is sata, usb, or firewire
[19:50] <mac_v> dobey: previously the state of the drive was easily identifiable from the icon and now it is broken
[19:51] <mac_v> yeah and the ATA SCSI is really redundant :(
[19:52] <mac_v> dobey: i trully find it difficult to know if the drive is mounted or not and the new plokit prompting for every mount is adding fuel to fire :(
[19:52] <dobey> polkit doesn't prompt for every mount
[19:52] <mac_v> dobey: it does ... here
[19:52] <dobey> it doesn't prompt me when i want to mount flash cards for me
[19:52] <mac_v> dobey: i meant for internal partitions
[19:52] <dobey> it prompts when i want to mount the ntfs partition for my win xp install on my desktop
[19:53] <mac_v> yup
[19:53] <mac_v> those
[19:53] <dobey> but i don't ever need to do that
[19:53] <dobey> the one fat partition i do need to mount always, i set up to mount on boot anyway
[19:53] <mac_v> dobey: hehe , my xp and win7 partitions are storage areas ;) so i often use them
[19:53] <dobey> so i don't get asked unless i want to unmount it, which i don't want to do, because i like being able to listen to my mp3s :)
[19:54] <dobey> mac_v: yeah, i have a partition for stuff like music/movies/photos, that i'd want to access from both OSes
[19:54] <dobey> but i just have it always mounted :)
[19:55] <mac_v> dobey: ;) see... we are having to work around the problem created by this awesome new gvfs == broken ;)
[19:55] <dobey> i'm not working around the problem
[19:55] <mac_v> well it forces me to ;p
[19:56] <dobey> my problem is i don't want to have to mount the drive every time i log in, so i can start my mp3 player without it emptying the library and putting everything in "missing files" instead
[19:56] <mac_v> dobey: rhythmbox?  yeah , that does that
[19:56] <dobey> EACCESS isn't enough to cause a mount :)
[20:01]  * mac_v reboots
[21:01] <seb128> mclasen, vuntz: do you know what gconf code is responsible to write default files from schemas?
[21:01] <jono> kenvandine, any more progress with Empathy?
[21:01] <kenvandine> fixed at least one crasher :)
[21:01] <seb128> mclasen, vuntz: ie GCONF_CONFIG_SOURCE=xml:readwrite:directory gconftool-2 --direct --config-source /var/lib/gconf/defaults --makefile-install-rule
[21:01] <kenvandine> jono, haven't looked at the pulse/alsa/gst thing today
[21:02] <jono> kenvandine, I am getting a little worried about it, we are pretty close to release
[21:02] <seb128> what writes the %gconf... to directory
[21:02] <jono> kenvandine, ahhh
[21:02] <jono> kenvandine, who in the gstreamer camp were you working with?
[21:02] <kenvandine> nobody from gstreamer, but the farsight guy
[21:02] <jono> oh right
[21:02] <jono> it might be a good idea to show the gst log to someone
[21:02] <jono> in gstreamer
[21:03] <jono> I know a bunch of gst folks who might be able to help
[21:05] <djsiegel> kenvandine: I have a really weird desktop bug
[21:05] <djsiegel> kenvandine: xterm and gnome-terminal won't accept any input
[21:05] <djsiegel> I see the bash prompt but I cannot type anything
[21:05] <djsiegel> and both xterm and gnome-terminal freeze if I try to close them
[21:05] <mclasen> seb128: the markup backend code ?
[21:06] <seb128> mclasen, ok thanks
[21:06] <seb128> mclasen, are you sure that your patch is working fine? I tried it and still have issue
[21:07] <seb128> mclasen, GCONF_CONFIG_SOURCE=xml:readwrite:directory gconftool-2 --direct --config-source /var/lib/gconf/defaults --makefile-install-rule schemas drop the gettext attribute for all keys not in the schemas being registered
[21:07] <seb128> ups wrong line
[21:07] <seb128> GCONF_CONFIG_SOURCE=xml:readwrite:directory gconftool-2 --makefile-install-rule schemas
[21:08] <seb128> mclasen, can you grep for gettext_domain in /etc/gconf/...
[21:08] <seb128> just to see if you have the same problem
[21:08] <seb128> ?
[21:09] <mclasen> seb128: tons of matches like /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults/%gconf-tree.xml:					<entry name="cache_ttl" mtime="1254887063" type="schema" stype="int" owner="seahorse" gettext_domain="seahorse-plugins">
[21:10] <seb128> mclasen, ok thanks, I don't know what is going on there
[21:10] <seb128> $ grep gettext /var/lib/gconf/defaults/* | wc -l
[21:10] <seb128> 2829
[21:11] <seb128> $ sudo GCONF_CONFIG_SOURCE=xml:readwrite:/var/lib/gconf/defaults gconftool-2 --direct --config-source /var/lib/gconf/defaults --makefile-install-rule /usr/share/gconf/schemas/gnome-screenshot.schemas
[21:11] <seb128> $ grep gettext /var/lib/gconf/defaults/* | wc -l
[21:11] <seb128> 6
[21:11] <seb128> mclasen, ^ that's what happens there
[21:15] <mclasen> seb128: actually, now that you mention it
[21:15] <mclasen> I see only matches for seahorse-plugins
[21:15] <mclasen> so I see probably the same thing
[21:15] <seb128> mclasen, ok thanks, I'm not crazy ;-)
[21:15] <mclasen> rewriting that file drops pre-existing gettext_domain attributes, maybe ?
[21:15] <seb128> yes it does apparently
[21:16] <seb128> that's why I'm looking at what code rewrite it
[21:16] <mclasen> not nice, but easy to overlook in local testing...
[21:16] <seb128> right, pitti did overlook it too while testing
[21:20] <seb128> mclasen, ok, the issue seems in parse_value_element(), gettext_domain value is get in a dummy variable and not used
[21:20] <seb128> mclasen, I will have an update patch and add it to bugzilla
[21:20] <mclasen> cool, thanks
[21:28] <dobey> mac_v: btw, gnome 2.26 used gvfs too, but it wasn't using polkit or devicekit, i think
[21:29] <dobey> mac_v: hal vs. devicekit-disks might have something to do with the icons
[21:29] <chrisccoulson> yes, devicekit-disks and g-d-u both have something to do with the icons
[21:29] <mac_v> dobey: yeah  ,think so.. it worked for me untill i did a fresh install of karmic ... now i wonder why i did that :/
[21:30] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - you're running NVIDIA aren't you?
[21:33] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: my only nvidia machine fails with compiz in some way I can't figure out
[21:33] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: or did you want me to test something else? :)
[21:33] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. i was going to ask you if you experienced any slow-ness returning from screensaver
[21:34] <chrisccoulson> when i return from the screensaver, all the animations are really jerky, like someone poured treacle in to my machine ;)
[21:34] <Amaranth> Just for a second or so or from then on?
[21:35] <chrisccoulson> it's like that until i restart it
[21:35] <Amaranth> hrm
[21:35] <chrisccoulson> although, it behaved wierd yesterday even after restarting compiz - i had to restart the machine in the end
[21:35] <Amaranth> which means.... well, you know
[21:37] <chrisccoulson> i should take a large heavy object and hit my nvidia card with it? ;)
[21:37] <Amaranth> Please :)
[21:37] <Amaranth> I'm not too happy with ati/radeon right now either tbh
[21:37] <Amaranth> glxinfo claims the max texture size is 2048 so compiz starts but it's apparently only 1024 now
[21:38] <chrisccoulson> it seems all drivers are having issues:(
[21:40] <Amaranth> This is turning out to be a bad release for graphics
[21:40] <Amaranth> except for intel
[21:40] <Amaranth> although that's just because intel in jaunty was horrible
[21:40] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i hear a lot of people say that ;)
[21:41] <Amaranth> In jaunty it worked great but was _slow_
[21:41] <Amaranth> In karmic is has a few gotchas but it's fast again :)
[21:41] <Amaranth> s/is/it/
[21:43] <dobey> my intel cards are slow no matter what version of ubuntu i run
[21:43] <dobey> my nvidia is fast, but compiz hates me apparently
[21:44] <Amaranth> Never did get any info from you about that
[21:44] <dobey> never finished updating
[21:44] <dobey> 30K/s is not fun
[21:45] <dobey> let's see if it's faster today
[21:47] <dobey> would appear not :(
[21:52] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - what sets the metacity theme?
[21:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you mean?
[21:52] <chrisccoulson> (it doesn't appear to be anything to do with g-s-d)
[21:53] <dobey> chrisccoulson: it's just a gconf key, there's no xsetting for it
[21:53] <seb128> not sure, the wm could be doing it
[21:53] <chrisccoulson> dobey - thanks
[21:53] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, that seems likely
[21:53] <dobey> chrisccoulson: and i think gnome-window-decorator reads the same key
[21:54] <chrisccoulson> it really is a pain to give the GDM user a different set of defaults to every other user on the system
[21:54] <Amaranth> gtk-window-decorator does, yes :)
[21:58] <asac> seb128: did you ever use system connections in NM?
[21:58] <seb128> asac: what are those? connection set before you start an user session?
[21:58] <asac> i mean in your day to day work
[21:58] <asac> seb128: yes
[21:59] <asac> checkbox: "available to all users"
[21:59] <asac> in the connection editor
[22:00] <seb128> wth
[22:00] <seb128> why do the nm icon start spinning when I open the connection manager?
[22:01] <asac> seb128: coincident ;)
[22:01] <asac> (i hope)
[22:01] <seb128> asac: nm is all buggy, wireless disconnected when I open the manager
[22:01] <seb128> no, I did it 3 times now
[22:02] <asac> seb128: can you run ls /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/ ?
[22:02] <asac> do you get anything
[22:03] <asac> seb128: ok. you are the second user telling me that
[22:03] <asac> the other user had the same "ignore" issue for ip6 in the past
[22:03] <asac> not saying thats related
[22:03] <asac> but thats why i ask ;) about the system connections as we are trying to understand that
[22:04] <seb128_> bah
[22:04] <seb128_> dunno if you get the previous comment
[22:04] <asac> seb128: just "bah"
[22:04] <seb128_> the manager also says that I didn't connect for a year to the access point I'm using now
[22:04] <asac> seb128: that sounds like a system-connection
[22:05] <asac> seb128: please edit it
[22:05] <seb128_> I think it's again a case of it not liking stock vendor names
[22:05] <seb128_> which one?
[22:05] <seb128_> I've 3 with the same name in the list
[22:05] <asac> urgh
[22:05] <asac> seb128: run the ls command please ;)
[22:05] <asac> ls /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/
[22:06] <seb128_> $ ls /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/
[22:06] <seb128_> Auto NETGEAR
[22:06] <asac> is that the name you are using?
[22:07] <seb128_> yes
[22:07] <asac> ok
[22:07] <asac> seb128: if you say "no, it did it 3 times now" ... are you saying your wireless connected 3 times in a row?
[22:08] <asac> or just third time you noticed this?
[22:08] <seb128_> no, it just reconnect every time I open the manager
[22:08] <seb128_> ie the icon start spinning as soon as I right click and pick edit connection
[22:08] <asac> kk
[22:09] <seb128_> I did close and reopen the manager several times
[22:09] <seb128_> it happens every single try
[22:10] <asac> seb128: ok thanks a lot. last question: i assume you are up to date, right?
[22:10] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - did you manage to have a look at the gnome-python-extras change?
[22:10] <seb128_> asac: "uptodate" from some hours ago
[22:11] <asac> kk
[22:11] <seb128_> asac: nm* are uptodate
[22:18] <asac> seb128_: and you probably rebooted and all?
[22:18] <asac> (the it reconects on edit is really strange)
[22:18] <seb128_> asac: yes
[22:21] <asac> only other person that told me something like that was a person that had the same ip6 bug you had long ago ... really feels connected
[22:21] <asac> let me ponder more bugmail on this
[22:33] <kenvandine> seb128_, can you sponsor bug 435216
[22:33] <seb128_> kenvandine, sure
[22:33] <kenvandine> that should fix most or all of the indicator related crashers
[22:34] <kenvandine> i need to weed through all the bug reports to make sure
[22:34] <kenvandine> it definately fixes that bug, which has been bad
[22:38]  * kenvandine runs out for a bit
[22:44] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, hi, I'm still seeing U1 twice in the menus
[22:44] <rickspencer3> was I supposed to do something to get this fixed?
[23:06] <jono> kenvandine, around?
[23:06] <Uraeus> yo
[23:06] <jono> kenvandine, rickspencer3 I was just speaking to Uraeus who is part of the GStreamer team: I worked with him a lot when I was hacking on Jokosher
[23:06] <rickspencer3> yes, and?
[23:06] <jono> to see if the gst guys can help identify the problem with Empathy A/V calls
[23:06] <rickspencer3> he is going to fix your box?
[23:07] <jono> hehe
[23:07] <Uraeus> is it true that anyone visiting this channel will get a clay jono with a chia beard?
[23:07] <jono> Uraeus has asked if someone could email them the list of bugs that apply, and kenvandine may want to send him the logs I sent over too
[23:07]  * jono smacks Uraeus 
[23:07] <Uraeus> hey, it was the only reason I joined :)
[23:08] <Laney> bah
[23:08] <Laney> empathy keeps signing back into msn after I signed in elsewhere
[23:09] <jono> kenvandine, can you do this?
[23:09] <jono> I was thinking if Uraeus could ask the gst guys to look through the gst logs, this could really help
[23:12] <Uraeus> send anything you got to christian.schaller@collabora.co.uk
[23:13] <jono> thanks Uraeus, it seems kenvandine is afk
[23:13] <jono> Uraeus, I will ask if he can send the content over, we really appreciate if wim or jan or someone could take a look
[23:14] <Uraeus> jono: hmm, well when it doesn't work for you and nobody hear what you are saying on VoIP, is your beard stuck in the microphone?
[23:14] <jono> Uraeus, hah, not quite :)
[23:14] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - my slow-down after screensaver issue seems to be related to the blur plugin
[23:15] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: not surprising
[23:15] <chrisccoulson> at least i haven't reproduced it since i disabled it
[23:15] <chrisccoulson> could be coincendence though ;)
[23:15] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: that super efficient fragment program seems to trigger lots of weird stuff
[23:15] <chrisccoulson> i liked the blur plugin:(
[23:15] <Amaranth> until karmic if you enabled it on intel it'd throw you into software rendering
[23:16] <chrisccoulson> thats funny actually - it felt just like i was in software rendering
[23:16] <Amaranth> too many variables or the stack is too big or some such thing
[23:16] <Amaranth> yay, nvidia has the same bug now
[23:16] <chrisccoulson> lol
[23:16] <chrisccoulson> nvidia has lots of bugs ;)
[23:18] <Amaranth> Hmm, whoever designed the spec process for Ubuntu must read joelonsoftware
[23:18] <chrisccoulson> there's lots of pro-nvidia groups on facebook, but i can't find any groups that would suit someone like me
[23:25] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/288160/
[23:25] <asac> Need to get 299MB of archives. After unpacking 537MB will be freed.
[23:25] <asac> what did we remove?
[23:26] <asac> 537MB?
[23:26] <asac> that means it removes twice as much as it downloads :/
[23:26] <asac> just with upgrades
[23:26] <asac> thats scary
[23:28] <chrisccoulson> asac - bug 444703
[23:29] <chrisccoulson> a previous grub update took up lots of space i think
[23:29] <asac> yeah
[23:29] <asac> found that ;)
[23:29] <chrisccoulson> heh
[23:29] <asac> nice bug :-P
[23:29] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it is ;)
[23:29] <chrisccoulson> i never noticed it, but then i've got nearly 1TB of space
[23:29] <asac> hehe
[23:29] <asac> fun
[23:29]  * asac neither
[23:43] <TheMuso> asac: What libcanberra commit is needed for bug 438463?
[23:44] <asac> TheMuso: http://git.0pointer.de/?p=libcanberra.git;a=commit;h=ed6f221e617537b1901211d41c0bd8018739e814
[23:44] <asac> TheMuso: comment #14
[23:45] <TheMuso> asac: oh ok
[23:46] <asac> TheMuso: i talked to ephy developer a few days ago and he said that lennart had a patch for this
[23:46] <asac> so it matches what i expected :)
[23:46] <asac> which i think is a good sign :)
[23:47] <TheMuso> asac: Right the latest commit in libcanberra. Will pull it and upload it today.
[23:55] <asac__> TheMuso: what do you think about the power_save_controller issue? makes sense to disable that in alsa conf until we have it fixed like daniel said?
[23:55] <asac__> bug 440540
[23:59] <asac> bryce: did you also uploade -intel?
[23:59] <TheMuso> asac: I am thinking the same thing.
[23:59] <asac> the mail thread read a bit like you are holding back because of FFe for that?