[15:58]  * robbiew waves to evand
[15:58] <evand> hallo
[15:58]  * james_w waves
[15:58] <mvo> hey
[15:58]  * robbiew barely gets agenda out
[15:59] <robbiew> after realizing the wiki is fubar'd
[16:00] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[16:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
[16:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:00] <robbiew> https://pastebin.canonical.com/23051/
[16:00] <robbiew> agenda ^
[16:00] <cjwatson> hi
[16:02] <robbiew> let's get started...
[16:02] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Ubuntu 9.10 Deliverables
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu 9.10 Deliverables
[16:02] <robbiew> james_w: so we're done with what we plan to do for Daily Builds and DD, right?
[16:03] <robbiew> still waiting on LP to address "The Bug"?
[16:03] <james_w> yeah
[16:03] <james_w> I think that might be close to done
[16:03] <james_w> at the moment they are working on getting more disks for codehosting
[16:04] <james_w> so we have been asked to refrain from pushing up branches for new packages right now
[16:04] <robbiew> ok...thanks for that info
[16:04] <robbiew> slangasek: around?
[16:05] <robbiew> liw: do you know if anything progressed with the DEP on Copyright Licensing?
[16:05] <liw> robbiew, I have not seen any progress on DEP5
[16:06] <liw> (Steve is welcome to kick me if I've missed it)
[16:06] <__keybuk> DEP?
[16:06] <mvo> PEP
[16:06] <mvo> with a different spelling I guess
[16:06] <cjwatson> http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep0/
[16:06] <liw> DEP = Debian Enhancement Proposal; http://dep.debian.net/ and http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep5/
[16:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep0/
[16:07] <robbiew> okay...well I guess we missed this one...again :/
[16:07] <__keybuk> Ah, not DEPendency then
[16:07] <robbiew> we need to make progress on this in Lucid...possibly implementing before the DEP is accepted
[16:07] <__keybuk> I bet whoever named that thought they were being cute ;)
[16:07] <robbiew> as OEM is dying from tracking this stuff by hand in a spreadsheet
[16:08] <liw> __keybuk, we didn't think we were being cute, I think :)
[16:09] <mvo> liw: is that your doing (the naming)?
[16:09] <liw> robbiew, do you want me to dust off the API design I did long ago, and spend a day on writing up a prototype and a sample cli app for querying stuff? might help dislodge things if there's code available
[16:09] <liw> mvo, me and Dato and Zack
[16:10] <robbiew> liw: sure
[16:10] <robbiew> I'll take whatever I can get :D
[16:10] <mvo> liw: heh :) ok
[16:10] <liw> robbiew, then I*ll do that before the end of the month :)
[16:10] <cjwatson> liw: there's also code in lintian these days I think, which may be a useful basis
[16:10] <robbiew> [ACTION] liw to dust off the API design he did long ago, and spend a day on writing up a prototype and a sample cli app for querying stuff
[16:10] <MootBot> ACTION received:  liw to dust off the API design he did long ago, and spend a day on writing up a prototype and a sample cli app for querying stuff
[16:11] <cjwatson> or at any rate code in a bug report against lintian somewhere
[16:11] <liw> cjwatson, ok, I'll give that a look
[16:11]  * robbiew got abused by lintian when doing his first package...whipped me into shape good :P
[16:12] <robbiew> cjwatson: I'm embarrassingly uninformed on the progress of archive reorg...my own fault
[16:12] <robbiew> :/
[16:13] <cjwatson> I think we've finally managed to mostly complete the argument about how delegated upload teams should handle new memberships
[16:13] <robbiew> ok
[16:13] <cjwatson> I said yesterday that I'd give it a day for further comments; there have been some but I think they can probably be integrated
[16:14] <cjwatson> that means that by final we will pretty definitely have at least ubuntu-desktop, kubuntu, and mythbuntu reorg'ed
[16:14] <robbiew> nice
[16:14] <cjwatson> it's not perfect, but not too bad progress for the cycle
[16:15] <robbiew> yep...especially with the other "fun" we've had
[16:15] <robbiew> thanks
[16:15] <robbiew> the last one is mine and slangasek's
[16:15] <robbiew> Release coordination with debian...which is progressing....slowly...but progressing
[16:16] <robbiew> thinking we can coordinate around a set of core packages...toolchain, kernel, maybe X
[16:17]  * robbiew needs to talk to doko about the python 2.6 "drama" in Debian
[16:17] <robbiew> fun :/
[16:17] <robbiew> moving on
[16:17] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Boot (yay!)
[16:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Boot (yay!)
[16:18] <doko__> robbiew: didn't see any progress about GCC
[16:18] <robbiew> first of all, great work _keybuk....I think Karmic is shaping up quite nicely ;)
[16:18] <__keybuk> Quite nicely
[16:18] <__keybuk> In the English sense
[16:18] <robbiew> heh
[16:18] <liw> could you translate that?
[16:18] <__keybuk> I spent the day debugging mount issues, and have new code ready to drop
[16:19] <robbiew> doko_: ack...we should probably talk sometime this week
[16:19] <__keybuk> Next week I look at I/O issues
[16:20] <__keybuk> liw: English often mean "bad" when they say "quite good" and "good" when they say "not bad"
[16:24] <__keybuk> Americans mean the opposite
[16:24] <robbiew> yep
[16:24] <robbiew> anyway
[16:24] <evand> silly Brits
[16:24] <robbiew> cjwatson: _keybuk: so I'd like to enable usplash at boot by default and find a way to hide the console messages
[16:24] <__keybuk> Sure
[16:24] <cjwatson> we talked about a timeout at one point, perhaps that's still feasible
[16:24] <liw> so... karmic is doing badly? or well? or there is no karmic and I'm hallucinating? or I should stop trying to pretend I know any English? *thoroughly confused now*
[16:24] <robbiew> I had the Qa team triage a bunch of bugs to get a listing of kernel messages...that we can possibly silence, if the kernel team can do it
[16:24] <__keybuk> cjwatson has the ball on usplash
[16:24] <__keybuk> liw: Awesome on SSD, pain on HDD
[16:24] <cjwatson> __keybuk: if you're OK with a timeout in principle, I can beat on that
[16:24] <cjwatson> I just got sidetracked
[16:24] <robbiew> cjwatson: well, the only problem with a timeout is that people get confused...some see it, some don't...I've gotten tons of bugs on it
[16:24] <robbiew> "it" being where's usplash
[16:24] <robbiew> even on relatively fast booting machines
[16:24] <cjwatson> right, but if X shows up within (say) three seconds will they care?
[16:24] <cjwatson> I do see your point, just don't want to regress SSD boot time
[16:24] <__keybuk> Let's just turn it on for karmic
[16:24] <robbiew> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ66Lnbztig</TT
[16:24] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ66Lnbztig</TT
[16:24] <__keybuk> And work on better for lynx
[16:24] <cjwatson> __keybuk: ok, your call, will do
[16:25] <robbiew> what about the console messages?
[16:25] <cjwatson> starting usplash will hide nearly all of them, if it works properly
[16:25] <cjwatson> modulo shutdown
[16:25] <robbiew> cjwatson: well
[16:25] <cjwatson> nearly> this is hand-waving to account for tty switches and stuff
[16:25] <__keybuk_> Oops
[16:25] <robbiew> not really..there's a bit of a flicker
[16:25] <robbiew> I tried both ways
[16:26] <cjwatson> oh, that
[16:26] <__keybuk_> Missed that bit
[16:27] <cjwatson> robbiew: I don't have an answer yet that I entirely like (though I know you suggested console=tty6 as a fallback), but I'll see what's possible; I'm sure it can be arranged somehow that at least we flicker to a black screen
[16:27] <cjwatson> I don't think that at present we can get rid of the flicker entirely
[16:28] <robbiew> right
[16:28] <__keybuk_> console= is overridden by usplash no?
[16:28] <robbiew> I can re-test, but last time I just enabled Usplash...I still saw flashes of console messages
[16:28] <__keybuk_> usplash and X end up with messages on their VT anyway I think
[16:29] <robbiew> before usplash started I think
[16:29] <cjwatson> Keybuk and I talked about various console handling issues, which are currently in my court to fix, e.g. cryptsetup's dodgy use of 'console owner'
[16:29] <robbiew> I'll re-test and post another crappy youtube video if I see anything
[16:29] <cjwatson> those are blocking some more sensible handling in usplash
[16:30] <cjwatson> __keybuk: we should probably undo that old workaround in which usplash doesn't switch away from its own vt on normal shutdown
[16:30] <cjwatson> then it wouldn't matter what was on usplash's vt, as long as we got the ordering right
[16:30] <__keybuk_> Yes
[16:31] <cjwatson> (and we could VT_RELDISP it too ...)
[16:31]  * robbiew leaves it in the MORE than capable hands of _keybuk and cjwatson
[16:31] <__keybuk_> Don't know that one
[16:31] <cjwatson> tty8 is still allocated when usplash exits, so X's first vt is 7, and then if you use fast user switching you end up on vt 9
[16:31] <cjwatson> and then 10, 11, etc.
[16:31] <cjwatson> it's a bit bizarre
[16:32] <__keybuk_> Ahh
[16:32] <__keybuk_> Yes, agree
[16:33] <robbiew> ok..we can probably move on
[16:33] <robbiew> [TOPIC] RC Bugs
[16:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  RC Bugs
[16:33] <robbiew> anyone got bugs they need help with...or just want to raise?
[16:33]  * mvo got a bunch but will do his best to fix them in time
[16:33] <__keybuk_> I have lots of those, but in my usual style I only milestoned them once I knew how to fix them
[16:34] <mvo> I could do with some help on update-manager bug triage, liw is already a good help, if he can just continue that would be great
[16:34] <liw> computer-janitor has a couple of crashes within the Python interpreter that I can't make any progress on
[16:34] <cjwatson> I've been trying to beat on build failures, which are normally sort of implicitly RC
[16:34] <cjwatson> especially cranking through http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html, now that wgrant has pointed out to me that once there's a newer version in karmic a row disappears out of the main four tables at the top, so it's possible to mostly avoid duplicating work
[16:35] <liw> bug #420307 and bug #435580 specifically (please hit me on the head with the cluebat of obviousness)
[16:35] <mvo> I also need prioritizing a RT ticket (#35783) so that we get screenshots.ubuntu.com for release
[16:35] <robbiew> mvo: ack
[16:35] <cjwatson> the number left in main is manageable, but universe (I know) is intimidatingly large
[16:35] <mvo> robbiew: many thanks
[16:35] <robbiew> [ACTION] robbiew to prioritize  RT ticket (#35783)
[16:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to prioritize  RT ticket (#35783)
[16:36] <cjwatson> if you have experience in some weird language or other, then hacking on anything in that list written in $language would be good - it often involves slightly weird skills
[16:36] <mvo> robbiew: the important part is screenshots.u.c (the ticket contains another request as well)
[16:36] <james_w> I can have a stab at some ftbfs
[16:36] <evand> I'm seeing sporadic reports of webkit vomiting all over GTK, causing ubiquity to crash in the slideshow
[16:36] <robbiew> mvo: noted
[16:37] <mvo>  Igot some crashes in software-center too that look like webkit, but its a small number so far
[16:37] <mvo> but the html/JS in software-store is not that complicated :)
[16:37] <evand> and very odd issues around the install over top of another linux OS code setting the default uid to 0 (which we've patched over, but I'm trying to find the root cause of)
[16:37]  * robbiew starts to regret asking about RC bugs...prefers the bliss of ignorance :P
[16:37] <mvo> lol@robbiew
[16:38] <__keybuk_> robbiew: It's a good thing, shows that your team is
[16:38] <__keybuk_> on top of them
[16:38] <robbiew> true
[16:39] <james_w> wow, you get a shot of Colin's head when you look at any of the build records of any of these failures. That was a little unexpected
[16:39] <cjwatson> ftbfs> gwt, jetty6, jinja2 are slightly beyond me
[16:39] <robbiew> lol
[16:39] <cjwatson> james_w: yeah, not perhaps entirely desirable ;-)
[16:40] <doko__> cjwatson: looking at jjinja
[16:40] <cjwatson> doko__: thanks
[16:40] <cjwatson> evand: webkit> I forwarded one bug about that upstream
[16:40] <cjwatson> bug 434413
[16:40] <evand> ah, awesome.  Thanks
[16:40] <__keybuk_> We so need a ddtt tag
[16:41] <mvo> evand: I had the same and added some magic to the html to disallow dragging (as a workaorund)
[16:42] <evand> mvo: ah, cool.  I'll cherry pick that from you then.
[16:42] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News
[16:43] <MootBot> New Topic:  Good News
[16:43] <robbiew> any of that?
[16:43] <robbiew> lol
[16:43] <liw> hey, that wasn't on the agenda, now I'm unprepared
[16:44] <robbiew> heh
[16:44] <robbiew> wow...nothing...how depressing :P
[16:44] <robbiew> cool
[16:44] <__keybuk> I keep meaning to make a dacia-sandero package for this section just to get a laugh from one other person
[16:44] <liw> wait
[16:44] <liw> I have one
[16:44] <james_w> hah
[16:45] <mvo> I got RTL languages fully (well, hopefully) working in software-center
[16:45] <liw> we have very little snow in Finland so far, and I have managed to find my bright light lamp
[16:45] <mvo> if someone actually uses a rtl language, I would appreciate feedback :)
[16:45] <robbiew> mvo: cool
[16:45] <robbiew> liw: lol..okay...I guess that counts :D
[16:45] <liw> robbiew, you were so desperate :)
[16:45] <robbiew> indeed
[16:45] <__keybuk> mvo: I'm sure slangasek speaks reverse polish
[16:45] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[16:45] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:45.
[16:46] <robbiew> thanks all
[16:46] <robbiew> __keybuk: good one
[16:46] <liw> muchas gracies
[16:46] <mvo> __keybuk: haha
[16:46] <evand> lol
[16:46] <mvo> thanks
[16:46] <james_w> thanks all
[16:47]  * mvo runs to do some errands
[18:01] <ara> hello :)
[18:01] <bdmurray> hi
[18:01] <pedro_> hola
[18:02] <ara> marjo is traveling to lexington today and he asked me to be the chair of the meeting
[18:02] <ara> so, here we are
[18:02] <ara> #startmeeting
[18:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is ara.
[18:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:02] <ara> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[18:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[18:02] <ara> sbeattie, can you give us a summary, please?
[18:03] <davmor2> hello
[18:03] <sbeattie> Yep, this week was a bit slow on the SRU front.
[18:03] <sbeattie> SRU Activity for the past week (since 2009-09-30):
[18:03] <sbeattie>  * Jaunty: 3 new packages in -proposed (landscape-client, tzdata, zsync) and 2 pushed to -updates (kadu, tzdata)
[18:03] <sbeattie>  * Intrepid: 3 new packages in -proposed (landscape-client, tzdata, zsync) and 1 pushed to -updates
[18:03] <sbeattie>  (tzdata)
[18:03] <sbeattie> * Hardy: 4 new packages in -proposed (apt-cacher, debian-installer, tzdata, zsync) and 2 pushed to -updates (linux, tzdata)
[18:04] <sbeattie> * Dapper: 1 new package in -proposed (langpack-locales) and also pushed to -updates.
[18:04] <sbeattie> Thanks to Storm, A. Karl Kornel, and Artur Rona for testing SRUs this week.
[18:04] <sbeattie> As always, assistance in testing SRUs is greatly appreciated.
[18:04] <sbeattie> That's all I have for SRUs.
[18:05] <ara> OK, thanks sbeattie :)
[18:05] <ara> [TOPIC] - Bugday highlights -- pedro_
[18:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  - Bugday highlights -- pedro_
[18:05] <pedro_> Not a lot to share this week, we didn't organize a bug day last week (-ETOOMUCHTODO)
[18:06] <pedro_> and i was about to run one this week for the confirmed without package bugs
[18:06] <pedro_> but.. the ubuntu wiki is kind of br0ken , it doesn't allow you to create a new page
[18:06] <pedro_> so i might skip the bug day for this week if that's not fixed soon
[18:06] <davmor2> pedro_: you forgot the tm after Br0ken
[18:06] <pedro_> *sigh*
[18:07] <pedro_> heh
[18:07] <ara> pedro_, well, there will be time to run bug days when karmic goes out :D
[18:07] <pedro_> that's so true ;-)
[18:07] <ara> pedro_, a "duplicates" one
[18:07] <ara> ok, so, last item on the agenda
[18:08] <ara> [TOPIC] Karmic Beta numbers - ara
[18:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Beta numbers - ara
[18:08] <ara> OK, so we had Karmic Beta last week and I am glad to share that we reached 98.9% coverage!!
[18:08] <davmor2> ara: 100% honest
[18:08] <pedro_> \o/!
[18:09] <ara> Thanks a lot to everybody that helped testing
[18:10] <ara> do you guys have any concerns from the testing phase for beta? things that can be improved for RC?
[18:10] <ara> do you also think Karmic is going to be a great Ubuntu release?
[18:10] <fader_> I'd say Karmic is going to rock but I don't want to jinx it :D
[18:10] <davmor2> I think karmic will be the release that produces the most bug reports
[18:10] <bdmurray> the best evar
[18:11] <sbeattie> I had... quirky behavior from a karmic host testing karmic guests, such that I wasn't sure whether issues I saw were problems with the images or issues with virtualbox.
[18:11] <davmor2> But I think the features that have gone in will mean that lucid will be friggin' awesome
[18:12] <ara> sbeattie, I had the same problem
[18:12] <ara> sbeattie, I tried kvm but it is very slow for me
[18:12] <fader_> sbeattie, ara: what sort of issues?  I didn't see anything unusual with kvm
[18:13] <ara> fader_, UTC hw clock, mainly
[18:13] <sbeattie> fader_: kvm on my amd cpu host was significantly slower than virtualbox on the same host for some unknown reason.
[18:13] <ara> sbeattie, same for me
[18:13] <fader_> Interesting... I'll have to install virtualbox and compare behavior
[18:13] <fader_> (and speed)
[18:14] <ara> fader_, it would be nice to have a kvm session during the QA track at UDS ;-)
[18:14] <sbeattie> I had issues where I rebooted a karmic guest, got no X, then powered down the guest, booted it back up, and then X in the guest came up fine.
[18:14] <sbeattie> (on virtualbox)
[18:14] <davmor2> there was a kvm track just not in qa it was very interesting though
[18:14] <ara> sbeattie, the respawning issue?
[18:14] <fader_> ara: I could happily participate as a user but I'm no kvm wizard :)
[18:14] <davmor2> ara: beg kirkland
[18:15] <ara> davmor2, I was at that one. I was thinking more on a hands on tutorial
[18:15] <sbeattie> ara: no, this was different, IIRC. Post a jaunty->karmic upgrade.
[18:15] <ara> fader_, ^
[18:15] <kirkland> ara: davmor2: sure, guys, i'll be happy to do one
[18:15] <kirkland> guys/gals
[18:15] <kirkland> :-)
[18:15] <ara> kirkland, nice :)
[18:15] <fader_> \o/
[18:15] <kirkland> fwiw, i have one scheduled for OpenWeek
[18:16] <ara> kirkland, good to know!
[18:16] <davmor2> kirkland: You Rock Dude
[18:17] <ara> ok, any other topics?
[18:18] <davmor2> We might have a working wubi tomorrow which would be nice :)
[18:18] <ara> davmor2, no kidding?
[18:18] <fader_> davmor2: Excellent!
[18:19] <davmor2> the only thing maybe stopping it at the minute is installer issues that are in the ubiquity install.  So fingers crassed everyone
[18:19] <davmor2> crossed even
[18:19]  * cr3 crasses fingers
[18:20] <ara> ok, anything else?
[18:21] <ara> ok, let's wrap up
[18:21] <ara> #endmeeting
[18:21] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:21.
[18:21] <ara> thanks everyone for attending the meeting
[18:21] <fader_> Thanks all
[18:21] <davmor2> thanks
[18:21] <pedro_> thanks!
[18:21] <sbeattie> woo, thanks!
[18:22] <davmor2> sbeattie: that's harsh only thanking woo
[18:22] <ara> I would post the logs and summary whenever the wiki is fixed...
[18:23] <davmor2> I'm assuming that someone has reported it's breakage?
[18:23] <ara> s/would/will
[18:23] <sbeattie> ara: thanks for doing that, BTW. That reminds me that I should backfill in the SRU data entries.