| === Mujahideen is now known as Vantrax | ||
| === Vantrax is now known as Hashishin | ||
| === Hashishin is now known as Nizari | ||
| === Nizari is now known as vantrax | ||
| === heHATEme is now known as vorian | ||
| === ogra_ is now known as ogra | ||
| === ogra is now known as Guest77653 | ||
| === Guest77653 is now known as ogra | ||
| LaserJock | hmm, looks like I broke the text-based installer | 15:46 |
|---|---|---|
| nubae|work | greets LaserJock | 16:18 |
| LaserJock | hi nubae|work | 16:35 |
| * nubae|work battles telepathy and dbus... | 16:42 | |
| nubae|work | good thing is I now understand dbus pretty thoroughly :-) I wasn't really sure what it was till now... | 16:43 |
| LaserJock | good | 16:43 |
| LaserJock | I don't that I do exactly | 16:43 |
| LaserJock | but I'm glad somebody does | 16:43 |
| LaserJock | :-) | 16:43 |
| nubae|work | heh... well to use telepathy u need to know dbus cause all the methods and signals go through there | 16:43 |
| LaserJock | yes, I'm becoming aware of that unfortunately | 16:44 |
| nubae|work | I also learnt how collaboration really works... basically its dbus on one machine connected to dbus on another | 16:44 |
| LaserJock | Ubuntu's fancy IM integration stuff was causing me problems because of telepathy | 16:44 |
| nubae|work | if u think about the possibilities this creates, its awsome | 16:44 |
| nubae|work | yeah telepathy is big... but reading the developer's manual helps | 16:45 |
| LaserJock | the only issue I seem to have is when I don't really need all that | 16:45 |
| LaserJock | just a personal thing | 16:45 |
| nubae|work | what do u mean? | 16:45 |
| LaserJock | I mean I don't need/want collaboration personally | 16:46 |
| LaserJock | and it's becoming more integrated into the OS | 16:46 |
| LaserJock | so that it's becoming harder for me to avoid it | 16:46 |
| nubae|work | well, u don't have to use it :-) but it sure brings new possibilities to apps | 16:46 |
| LaserJock | my problem is I'm starting to have to use it | 16:46 |
| nubae|work | ah... right... well yeah can't really avoid telepathy anymore, unless u wanna not use communication at all | 16:47 |
| LaserJock | I wanted to use pidgin | 16:47 |
| LaserJock | but Ubuntu kept opening Empathy on incoming messages | 16:47 |
| LaserJock | whether I had an empathy window open or not | 16:47 |
| nubae|work | hmm, really, thats strange... | 16:47 |
| LaserJock | because of the dbus calls, etc. | 16:47 |
| nubae|work | well, empathy isnt really linked to the calls... it should be using telepathy straight... | 16:48 |
| LaserJock | the Ubuntu indicator app picks up the incoming message | 16:48 |
| nubae|work | though it wasnt always like that, I guess u're talking about the past | 16:48 |
| LaserJock | and starts up mission control | 16:48 |
| nubae|work | when empathy had its own libs | 16:48 |
| LaserJock | no, I'm talking about how this is being integrated into the OS | 16:48 |
| nubae|work | yeah and mission control chooses the connection manager, and then marshall stuff depending on the client in use... but empathy shouldnt kidnap your pidgin messages | 16:49 |
| nubae|work | at least doesnt happen for me | 16:49 |
| LaserJock | I had assumed that if I closed empathy it would stop "looking" for incoming messages | 16:49 |
| nubae|work | definetly | 16:49 |
| LaserJock | but that's not the case now in Ubuntu | 16:49 |
| nubae|work | hmmm, in Karmic? | 16:49 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 16:50 |
| nubae|work | I havent looked at karmic yet... in terms of telepathy, but that would be a major regression | 16:50 |
| LaserJock | it's a "feature" :-) | 16:50 |
| LaserJock | so they patched it so that it now looks to pidgin first if it's open | 16:50 |
| LaserJock | which seems like kind of a hacky workaround to me but I don't know | 16:51 |
| LaserJock | and gwibber is worse | 16:51 |
| LaserJock | because there's no UI to close the client | 16:51 |
| nubae|work | well, the problem is that pidgin doesnt use telepathy | 16:51 |
| LaserJock | well, it shouldn't *have* to | 16:51 |
| nubae|work | and telepathy is now hard coded into the WM like you say | 16:51 |
| LaserJock | I think this telepathy stuff is interesting for sure | 16:51 |
| nubae|work | well, the fact that everyone has agreed on a standard communications platform, to me says it should :-) | 16:52 |
| LaserJock | I just hope that it doesn't get too hard coded for those of us who don't necessarily need it | 16:52 |
| LaserJock | but that stander here is XMPP, not telepathy | 16:52 |
| nubae|work | well, unless u intend to not use video/audio conferencing, instant messaging, collaboration, SIP, etc etc | 16:52 |
| LaserJock | all I want is a Jabber client | 16:53 |
| LaserJock | no video/audio, collaboration, SIP, etc. | 16:53 |
| LaserJock | Jabber and maybe IRC if they can do it well | 16:53 |
| nubae|work | well, telepathy uses XMPP and it is the chosen communications platform for Gnome... | 16:53 |
| nubae|work | its just standardisation | 16:53 |
| nubae|work | for devs, it makes sense | 16:53 |
| nubae|work | the end user can find it annoying I guess | 16:54 |
| LaserJock | well, I just want my IM client to work | 16:54 |
| LaserJock | and not be autospawning | 16:54 |
| nubae|work | yeah thats pretty bad... I'm sure thats not intended | 16:54 |
| nubae|work | telepathy should work very independently of empathy | 16:54 |
| LaserJock | it's disconcerting to me that apps are automatically opening up when I've closed them | 16:55 |
| LaserJock | no, it is intended unfortunatley | 16:55 |
| LaserJock | right, I'm not blaming telepathy per se | 16:55 |
| nubae|work | well, at least on Jaunty, that behaviour is not there... I can control telepathy independently of empathy | 16:55 |
| LaserJock | yes | 16:55 |
| LaserJock | it's a karmic feature | 16:56 |
| nubae|work | feature... that doesnt sound right | 16:56 |
| LaserJock | the issue isn't really telepathy | 16:56 |
| nubae|work | who came up with that idea, I wonder | 16:56 |
| LaserJock | it's that they're catching incoming messages whether empathy is open or not and starting up the client | 16:56 |
| nubae|work | right, but that would mean that empathy is hardcoded to always be on somehow, or, that the dbus bindings launch empathy, which would be very strange | 16:57 |
| LaserJock | so I end up having a hard time figuring out which apps are open and which are not | 16:58 |
| LaserJock | yeah, the indicator-session applet uses dbus to launch empathy | 16:58 |
| nubae|work | I'm gonna install Karmic and take a look | 16:58 |
| nubae|work | ah ok, so this indicator-session applet is new for karmic? | 16:58 |
| LaserJock | sorta | 16:58 |
| nubae|work | or its got the new dbus launching empathy functionality... | 16:58 |
| LaserJock | I think it might be around in Jaunty but not as powerful | 16:58 |
| nubae|work | gotcha... | 16:59 |
| LaserJock | so they told me that the only way (before the fix they just put in) to stop this behavior | 16:59 |
| LaserJock | was to disable all the accounts in empathy | 16:59 |
| LaserJock | then it would just go to pidgin | 16:59 |
| nubae|work | gosh | 16:59 |
| LaserJock | I'm pretty confused by the whole thing | 17:00 |
| LaserJock | and it seems like the only way to get things "normal" is to use empathy | 17:00 |
| LaserJock | which seems kind of "not nice" to me | 17:00 |
| LaserJock | I love pidgin and would like to continue using it for the foreseeable future | 17:00 |
| nubae|work | well, the problem is there is a lot it can't do due to not using telepathy | 17:02 |
| nubae|work | like sharing the desktop, file transfers to gabble, msn, salut accounts | 17:02 |
| nubae|work | video/audio conferencing to more than 2 people at the same time | 17:02 |
| nubae|work | and from a development point of view, it makes no sense to continue to support pidgin, as nice as it is | 17:03 |
| LaserJock | right | 17:03 |
| alkisg | It also runs on windows :) Makes collaboration easier for people using multiple platforms :) | 17:03 |
| LaserJock | well, somebody would have to write a nice IM client that uses telepathy for me to be interested | 17:03 |
| nubae|work | well, telepathy doesn't work on windows | 17:03 |
| * alkisg will keep using pidgin for some time... | 17:03 | |
| nubae|work | though there are efforts to port it | 17:03 |
| LaserJock | the other stuff just doesn't excite me | 17:03 |
| nubae|work | there are a LOT of telepathy projects being worked on | 17:04 |
| nubae|work | who knows, maybe mine will catch your fancy... lol | 17:04 |
| LaserJock | so I certainly don't mind telepathy being around, and am generally a fan | 17:04 |
| LaserJock | but I'd like to be able to use my choice of IM client without "punishment" | 17:04 |
| nubae|work | well, I agree that it shouldnt force u to use one client, and I dont believe that is its intention | 17:04 |
| LaserJock | I think it is ;-) | 17:05 |
| LaserJock | though not in a mean way | 17:05 |
| nubae|work | I know of at least 4-5 chat clients using telepathy | 17:05 |
| LaserJock | the guys doing this don't like pidgin | 17:05 |
| nubae|work | and they can run concurrently without issues | 17:05 |
| alkisg | Maybe pidgin will get a (secondary) telepathy backend in the future.. | 17:05 |
| LaserJock | and pretty much think it should die | 17:05 |
| nubae|work | come on... no conspiracy theories ;-) | 17:05 |
| LaserJock | well, it's fairly common knowledge | 17:05 |
| LaserJock | I don't blame them | 17:05 |
| LaserJock | but still, the bias is there | 17:06 |
| nubae|work | that would make the most sense... using telepathy in pidgin | 17:06 |
| LaserJock | when I mention a bug they tell me I should just use empathy and forget pidgin | 17:06 |
| nubae|work | well, its a telepathy thing... empathy is just a small example of how to use telepathy | 17:06 |
| nubae|work | the major work has gone into the comms platform | 17:06 |
| nubae|work | heh... | 17:06 |
| LaserJock | right, but since telepathy doesn't give me any other advantages | 17:06 |
| LaserJock | I'm having to put up with a crappy IM client because of a framework that doesn't gain me anything | 17:07 |
| LaserJock | which seems not so fun to me | 17:07 |
| alkisg | I see telepathy in the same way that I see the gstreamer library... Sure, it's a good backend, but totem doesn't yet do everything vlc or mplayer do. Same thing with empathy, it doesn't yet do what pidgin does... | 17:07 |
| nubae|work | I'd be pretty surprised if there is nothing telepathy can do for u | 17:07 |
| LaserJock | nubae|work: I can't think of anything | 17:07 |
| nubae|work | do u use vino and vinagre? | 17:07 |
| LaserJock | no | 17:07 |
| nubae|work | that uses telepathy | 17:07 |
| LaserJock | I apt-get remove those | 17:07 |
| nubae|work | jokosher? | 17:07 |
| LaserJock | I don't want VNC on my machine | 17:07 |
| nubae|work | abiword? | 17:08 |
| LaserJock | nope | 17:08 |
| nubae|work | inkscape? | 17:08 |
| LaserJock | nope | 17:08 |
| LaserJock | sometimes | 17:08 |
| nubae|work | ah... | 17:08 |
| nubae|work | there was bound to be one :p | 17:08 |
| LaserJock | so how does telepathy help me with inkscape? | 17:08 |
| nubae|work | u can share drawings with other users | 17:08 |
| LaserJock | I've never wanted to do that | 17:09 |
| nubae|work | ok, but the ability is there... and its quite useful in school situations... | 17:09 |
| LaserJock | I mean, I understand why many people would | 17:09 |
| nubae|work | anyway, surely u can dream up something it would be useful to u for | 17:09 |
| LaserJock | I just personally don't need/want it | 17:09 |
| LaserJock | so I'm not gaining anything from it | 17:09 |
| nubae|work | how about sharing a chem app somehow... | 17:10 |
| LaserJock | which makes it harder for me to justify the nasty IM client | 17:10 |
| nubae|work | well, that will change soon enough | 17:10 |
| LaserJock | I just don't feel the need to share things | 17:10 |
| LaserJock | maybe I'm anti-social, I don't know | 17:10 |
| LaserJock | I've just not had a need for it | 17:10 |
| nubae|work | do u use gtalk? | 17:10 |
| LaserJock | Jabber | 17:11 |
| LaserJock | not gtalk itself though | 17:11 |
| nubae|work | right but more and more telepathy is taking care of gtalk directly | 17:11 |
| LaserJock | it's another not-so-useful IM client | 17:11 |
| nubae|work | hmm, there I disagree | 17:11 |
| nubae|work | I use it a lot, just cause of the gmail integration | 17:11 |
| LaserJock | but I don't want it integrated | 17:11 |
| nubae|work | but if u dont use gmaiil, ok, I can see it not being that great | 17:12 |
| LaserJock | I use gmail | 17:12 |
| LaserJock | exclusively | 17:12 |
| LaserJock | but that's email, not IM | 17:12 |
| nubae|work | hmm, they are so similar... :p | 17:12 |
| LaserJock | I don't want things integrated into my email, it's just useless and distracting | 17:12 |
| LaserJock | no, they are worlds different | 17:12 |
| LaserJock | I talk to almost completely different people between them | 17:12 |
| LaserJock | I use email for mass communication | 17:12 |
| nubae|work | i bet u there will come a day where email becomes obsolete and there is just instant messaging | 17:13 |
| LaserJock | IM for personally conversations | 17:13 |
| LaserJock | I suppose | 17:13 |
| LaserJock | I'm not a big fan of email | 17:13 |
| LaserJock | I wouldn't mind having something better | 17:13 |
| nubae|work | its a highly insecure old bothersome protocol | 17:13 |
| LaserJock | but I'm not sure how people can make it better | 17:13 |
| nubae|work | well, jabber takes care of that in a much better way, imho | 17:13 |
| LaserJock | except it's not great at mass communication | 17:14 |
| nubae|work | anyhow... I must go... home sweet home... | 17:14 |
| LaserJock | and it's real time, which sucks | 17:14 |
| nubae|work | hmm, why not... | 17:14 |
| nubae|work | doesnt have to be real time | 17:14 |
| nubae|work | u can leave messages on the server | 17:14 |
| nubae|work | and it can multicast just fine | 17:14 |
| LaserJock | sure | 17:14 |
| LaserJock | but then it's just email | 17:14 |
| LaserJock | with a different transmission protocol | 17:15 |
| nubae|work | well no, its a secure protocol | 17:15 |
| LaserJock | instead of SMTP you're using XMPP or something | 17:15 |
| nubae|work | its better controlled | 17:15 |
| nubae|work | right | 17:15 |
| LaserJock | sure | 17:15 |
| LaserJock | but that's not changing much | 17:15 |
| nubae|work | xmpp is far superior to xmtp | 17:15 |
| LaserJock | the end user won't notice a difference | 17:15 |
| nubae|work | no the end user wont | 17:15 |
| nubae|work | which is a good thing | 17:15 |
| LaserJock | right | 17:15 |
| nubae|work | anyway, have to go... i'll be on later from home... | 17:16 |
| nubae|work | laters... | 17:16 |
| LaserJock | cya | 17:16 |
| Balsaq | registered my nick, reveived email to finish it, followed the instructions, now get message-must log in 1st to register nick? | 20:33 |
| alkisg | Balsaq: better ask in #ubuntu-irc | 20:35 |
| === mhall119|work is now known as mhall119|school | ||
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