=== Mujahideen is now known as Vantrax === Vantrax is now known as Hashishin === Hashishin is now known as Nizari === Nizari is now known as vantrax === heHATEme is now known as vorian === ogra_ is now known as ogra === ogra is now known as Guest77653 === Guest77653 is now known as ogra [15:46] hmm, looks like I broke the text-based installer [16:18] greets LaserJock [16:35] hi nubae|work [16:42] * nubae|work battles telepathy and dbus... [16:43] good thing is I now understand dbus pretty thoroughly :-) I wasn't really sure what it was till now... [16:43] good [16:43] I don't that I do exactly [16:43] but I'm glad somebody does [16:43] :-) [16:43] heh... well to use telepathy u need to know dbus cause all the methods and signals go through there [16:44] yes, I'm becoming aware of that unfortunately [16:44] I also learnt how collaboration really works... basically its dbus on one machine connected to dbus on another [16:44] Ubuntu's fancy IM integration stuff was causing me problems because of telepathy [16:44] if u think about the possibilities this creates, its awsome [16:45] yeah telepathy is big... but reading the developer's manual helps [16:45] the only issue I seem to have is when I don't really need all that [16:45] just a personal thing [16:45] what do u mean? [16:46] I mean I don't need/want collaboration personally [16:46] and it's becoming more integrated into the OS [16:46] so that it's becoming harder for me to avoid it [16:46] well, u don't have to use it :-) but it sure brings new possibilities to apps [16:46] my problem is I'm starting to have to use it [16:47] ah... right... well yeah can't really avoid telepathy anymore, unless u wanna not use communication at all [16:47] I wanted to use pidgin [16:47] but Ubuntu kept opening Empathy on incoming messages [16:47] whether I had an empathy window open or not [16:47] hmm, really, thats strange... [16:47] because of the dbus calls, etc. [16:48] well, empathy isnt really linked to the calls... it should be using telepathy straight... [16:48] the Ubuntu indicator app picks up the incoming message [16:48] though it wasnt always like that, I guess u're talking about the past [16:48] and starts up mission control [16:48] when empathy had its own libs [16:48] no, I'm talking about how this is being integrated into the OS [16:49] yeah and mission control chooses the connection manager, and then marshall stuff depending on the client in use... but empathy shouldnt kidnap your pidgin messages [16:49] at least doesnt happen for me [16:49] I had assumed that if I closed empathy it would stop "looking" for incoming messages [16:49] definetly [16:49] but that's not the case now in Ubuntu [16:49] hmmm, in Karmic? [16:50] yeah [16:50] I havent looked at karmic yet... in terms of telepathy, but that would be a major regression [16:50] it's a "feature" :-) [16:50] so they patched it so that it now looks to pidgin first if it's open [16:51] which seems like kind of a hacky workaround to me but I don't know [16:51] and gwibber is worse [16:51] because there's no UI to close the client [16:51] well, the problem is that pidgin doesnt use telepathy [16:51] well, it shouldn't *have* to [16:51] and telepathy is now hard coded into the WM like you say [16:51] I think this telepathy stuff is interesting for sure [16:52] well, the fact that everyone has agreed on a standard communications platform, to me says it should :-) [16:52] I just hope that it doesn't get too hard coded for those of us who don't necessarily need it [16:52] but that stander here is XMPP, not telepathy [16:52] well, unless u intend to not use video/audio conferencing, instant messaging, collaboration, SIP, etc etc [16:53] all I want is a Jabber client [16:53] no video/audio, collaboration, SIP, etc. [16:53] Jabber and maybe IRC if they can do it well [16:53] well, telepathy uses XMPP and it is the chosen communications platform for Gnome... [16:53] its just standardisation [16:53] for devs, it makes sense [16:54] the end user can find it annoying I guess [16:54] well, I just want my IM client to work [16:54] and not be autospawning [16:54] yeah thats pretty bad... I'm sure thats not intended [16:54] telepathy should work very independently of empathy [16:55] it's disconcerting to me that apps are automatically opening up when I've closed them [16:55] no, it is intended unfortunatley [16:55] right, I'm not blaming telepathy per se [16:55] well, at least on Jaunty, that behaviour is not there... I can control telepathy independently of empathy [16:55] yes [16:56] it's a karmic feature [16:56] feature... that doesnt sound right [16:56] the issue isn't really telepathy [16:56] who came up with that idea, I wonder [16:56] it's that they're catching incoming messages whether empathy is open or not and starting up the client [16:57] right, but that would mean that empathy is hardcoded to always be on somehow, or, that the dbus bindings launch empathy, which would be very strange [16:58] so I end up having a hard time figuring out which apps are open and which are not [16:58] yeah, the indicator-session applet uses dbus to launch empathy [16:58] I'm gonna install Karmic and take a look [16:58] ah ok, so this indicator-session applet is new for karmic? [16:58] sorta [16:58] or its got the new dbus launching empathy functionality... [16:58] I think it might be around in Jaunty but not as powerful [16:59] gotcha... [16:59] so they told me that the only way (before the fix they just put in) to stop this behavior [16:59] was to disable all the accounts in empathy [16:59] then it would just go to pidgin [16:59] gosh [17:00] I'm pretty confused by the whole thing [17:00] and it seems like the only way to get things "normal" is to use empathy [17:00] which seems kind of "not nice" to me [17:00] I love pidgin and would like to continue using it for the foreseeable future [17:02] well, the problem is there is a lot it can't do due to not using telepathy [17:02] like sharing the desktop, file transfers to gabble, msn, salut accounts [17:02] video/audio conferencing to more than 2 people at the same time [17:03] and from a development point of view, it makes no sense to continue to support pidgin, as nice as it is [17:03] right [17:03] It also runs on windows :) Makes collaboration easier for people using multiple platforms :) [17:03] well, somebody would have to write a nice IM client that uses telepathy for me to be interested [17:03] well, telepathy doesn't work on windows [17:03] * alkisg will keep using pidgin for some time... [17:03] though there are efforts to port it [17:03] the other stuff just doesn't excite me [17:04] there are a LOT of telepathy projects being worked on [17:04] who knows, maybe mine will catch your fancy... lol [17:04] so I certainly don't mind telepathy being around, and am generally a fan [17:04] but I'd like to be able to use my choice of IM client without "punishment" [17:04] well, I agree that it shouldnt force u to use one client, and I dont believe that is its intention [17:05] I think it is ;-) [17:05] though not in a mean way [17:05] I know of at least 4-5 chat clients using telepathy [17:05] the guys doing this don't like pidgin [17:05] and they can run concurrently without issues [17:05] Maybe pidgin will get a (secondary) telepathy backend in the future.. [17:05] and pretty much think it should die [17:05] come on... no conspiracy theories ;-) [17:05] well, it's fairly common knowledge [17:05] I don't blame them [17:06] but still, the bias is there [17:06] that would make the most sense... using telepathy in pidgin [17:06] when I mention a bug they tell me I should just use empathy and forget pidgin [17:06] well, its a telepathy thing... empathy is just a small example of how to use telepathy [17:06] the major work has gone into the comms platform [17:06] heh... [17:06] right, but since telepathy doesn't give me any other advantages [17:07] I'm having to put up with a crappy IM client because of a framework that doesn't gain me anything [17:07] which seems not so fun to me [17:07] I see telepathy in the same way that I see the gstreamer library... Sure, it's a good backend, but totem doesn't yet do everything vlc or mplayer do. Same thing with empathy, it doesn't yet do what pidgin does... [17:07] I'd be pretty surprised if there is nothing telepathy can do for u [17:07] nubae|work: I can't think of anything [17:07] do u use vino and vinagre? [17:07] no [17:07] that uses telepathy [17:07] I apt-get remove those [17:07] jokosher? [17:07] I don't want VNC on my machine [17:08] abiword? [17:08] nope [17:08] inkscape? [17:08] nope [17:08] sometimes [17:08] ah... [17:08] there was bound to be one :p [17:08] so how does telepathy help me with inkscape? [17:08] u can share drawings with other users [17:09] I've never wanted to do that [17:09] ok, but the ability is there... and its quite useful in school situations... [17:09] I mean, I understand why many people would [17:09] anyway, surely u can dream up something it would be useful to u for [17:09] I just personally don't need/want it [17:09] so I'm not gaining anything from it [17:10] how about sharing a chem app somehow... [17:10] which makes it harder for me to justify the nasty IM client [17:10] well, that will change soon enough [17:10] I just don't feel the need to share things [17:10] maybe I'm anti-social, I don't know [17:10] I've just not had a need for it [17:10] do u use gtalk? [17:11] Jabber [17:11] not gtalk itself though [17:11] right but more and more telepathy is taking care of gtalk directly [17:11] it's another not-so-useful IM client [17:11] hmm, there I disagree [17:11] I use it a lot, just cause of the gmail integration [17:11] but I don't want it integrated [17:12] but if u dont use gmaiil, ok, I can see it not being that great [17:12] I use gmail [17:12] exclusively [17:12] but that's email, not IM [17:12] hmm, they are so similar... :p [17:12] I don't want things integrated into my email, it's just useless and distracting [17:12] no, they are worlds different [17:12] I talk to almost completely different people between them [17:12] I use email for mass communication [17:13] i bet u there will come a day where email becomes obsolete and there is just instant messaging [17:13] IM for personally conversations [17:13] I suppose [17:13] I'm not a big fan of email [17:13] I wouldn't mind having something better [17:13] its a highly insecure old bothersome protocol [17:13] but I'm not sure how people can make it better [17:13] well, jabber takes care of that in a much better way, imho [17:14] except it's not great at mass communication [17:14] anyhow... I must go... home sweet home... [17:14] and it's real time, which sucks [17:14] hmm, why not... [17:14] doesnt have to be real time [17:14] u can leave messages on the server [17:14] and it can multicast just fine [17:14] sure [17:14] but then it's just email [17:15] with a different transmission protocol [17:15] well no, its a secure protocol [17:15] instead of SMTP you're using XMPP or something [17:15] its better controlled [17:15] right [17:15] sure [17:15] but that's not changing much [17:15] xmpp is far superior to xmtp [17:15] the end user won't notice a difference [17:15] no the end user wont [17:15] which is a good thing [17:15] right [17:16] anyway, have to go... i'll be on later from home... [17:16] laters... [17:16] cya [20:33] registered my nick, reveived email to finish it, followed the instructions, now get message-must log in 1st to register nick? [20:35] Balsaq: better ask in #ubuntu-irc === mhall119|work is now known as mhall119|school