=== robbiew is now known as robbiew-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [00:13] hi slangasek, i'm searching for a sponsor for this couchdb patch, any chance it's something you could help with? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/couchdb/+bug/439499 [00:13] Launchpad bug 439499 in couchdb "OAuth-authenticated database replication crashes, HTTP404" [Undecided,In progress] [00:33] statik: happy to [00:44] statik: I wonder why there's a VERSION= token in couchdb-bin.postrm at all, it's completely unused... [00:47] slangasek, huh that might be a leftover [00:47] thanks for your help [01:15] im getting "[Firmware Bug]: ACPI : Invalid BIOS _PSS frequency : 0x0 MHz" from beta.. anyone know why? both on live and alternate === yofel_ is now known as yofel [01:23] I read about Debian's plans for going multi-arch [01:23] I suppose this means Ubuntu will go too, as changing all the packages would be insane [01:24] So, what I'm worrying about is, how the transition will go [01:24] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiarchSpec [01:25] thank you === a1g_ is now known as a1g [01:38] huh, there's somewhere that one can read about Debian's plans for multiarch? :) [01:38] (that doesn't point back at the Ubuntu wiki page? :) [01:40] I wonder how much need there is for multiarch these days [01:41] plenty [01:42] people still use 32-bit flash, and that depends on ia32-libs, and ia32-libs is a festering boil [01:42] I thought the demand was mostly for things like Flash and java [01:42] that's the primary desktop case, yes [01:42] but isn't there 64bit flash coming down the pike? [01:42] maybe someday [01:43] oh, and wine is all 32-bit, too [01:43] I don't know, I just remember it being such a pain to have amd64 and now I hardly notice the difference [01:43] although that could be because of ia32-libs [01:44] Skype is also 32-bit, and likely will only be so for a while. [01:44] popcon says ia32-libs is the 2179th most popular Ubuntu package [01:44] LaserJock: 10.1 should have official support for 64-bit on linux, windows, and OS X [01:44] and the single largest :-P [01:45] LaserJock: but they aren't even to a beta of that yet [01:45] cyberix_: so where were you reading about multiarch? [01:45] slangasek: really, that big? [01:45] LaserJock: you really don't know what goes into ia32-libs, do you :) [01:45] I do, but I didn't think it was *that* much [01:46] 553M /home/lp_archive/ubuntu/pool/universe/i/ia32-libs/ia32-libs_2.7ubuntu15.tar.gz [01:46] LaserJock: ia32-libs is basically a copy of GTK+ and everything in the stack below that [01:46] Amaranth: and pulseaudio, and... [01:46] oh, and pulseaudio [01:46] yeah [01:46] pain [01:46] 64-bit users without 5mbit broadband need not apply [01:47] the .deb is only 29MB [01:47] really? [01:47] but the source tarball has to include all the sources [01:47] it's just impossible to *maintain*, because it's the equivalent of having to upload an ISO [01:48] yeah, that'd be an all day event for me [01:48] yeah [01:48] I hope I never have to touch that hunk of junk again. :) [01:49] Its about a 3-4 hour upload for me at least, if not longer. [01:50] adobe's 64-bit alpha flash plugin is more "stable" than their stable 32-bit plugin :P [01:51] shtylman: in bug #424132 you said you would poke the dev if this wasn't fixed by alpha6... any updates there? [01:51] Launchpad bug 424132 in openoffice.org "[kubuntu] OOo KDE file dialog is utterly broken." [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/424132 [01:51] JanC: Except for all the people who get segfaults when it loads [01:51] Amaranth: eh? [01:51] never seen that ツ [01:52] actually, never heard about that [01:53] Amaranth: is it related to certain hardware or such? [01:53] no idea [01:55] slangasek: unfortunately no... points 1 and 2 I fixed, but still unable to track down why nothing has no next. The last three points I believe to be related. [01:56] slangasek: I have asked several developers and we still have no fix [01:56] slangasek: the interesting thing is that text *does* appear when using something other than the oxygen style [01:56] slangasek: but that doesn't fix the new folder bug and other issues not listen on that report [01:56] shtylman: ok. are you still taking responsibility for this (as you're assigned), and can you perhaps follow up to the bug with information about the current status? [01:57] slangasek: will do... I will read through the bug report and see what I can comment on and what has been addressed [01:57] shtylman: cheers [02:35] slangasek: StevenK: hi guys... could one of you please spin a new server daily iso immediately? === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [02:37] kirkland: spinning [02:38] kirkland: why "immediately", btw? if you were waiting for package publishing, note that we can track that on our side [02:38] slangasek: right [02:39] slangasek: a new eucalyptus package has been uploaded - we'd like to have it included on the next isso [02:39] slangasek: so I think we need to wait for the new package to be published [02:39] ok, so the build I've just started is useless? :) [02:39] slangasek: 1.6~bzr916-0ubuntu1 [02:40] slangasek: I have the regret to announce that this is probably the case [02:40] slangasek: whoops, sorry [02:40] slangasek: i got triggerhappy [02:40] right; queueing up another build against 916 instead === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [02:42] slangasek: sorry for the inconvenience [02:43] I'll relay your apologies to the build server [03:31] where is the CD boot menu items determined? [03:36] LaserJock: I think gfxboot-theme-ubuntu is probably what takes care of that. === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === heHATEme is now known as vorian [04:01] LaserJock: I think Debian's original multiarch proposal states that the spec isn't only about hardware architectures, but about software architectures as well [04:02] LaserJock: I recall them mentioning support for Windows executables or something [04:02] wild dreams, might be [04:02] but maybe part of it makes sense [04:03] they are also talking about emulating hardware [04:04] so eventually you could have a package that supports running PowerPC or Gameboy applications :-D [04:05] The page in Ubuntu Wiki says: "Ubuntu 9.10 introduces support for installing packages from multiple architectures on a single system. This makes a wider array of 32-bit applications available to users of 64-bit Ubuntu." [04:05] How accurate is this? [04:06] I mean, I see no marks of the specification being applied to current beta release of 9.10 [04:06] s/marks/signs/ [04:07] cyberix_: Its not going into 9.10 [04:08] TheMuso: That is the impression I got, but I'm not sure if that sentence refers to something else [04:10] It was planned at one point. [04:12] so should we change that to 10.04 then [04:14] I'd leave it for the guy that has to deal with it. [04:14] ok [04:14] I'll get some sleep for a change [04:14] good night === lamont` is now known as lamont [04:24] kirkland, mathiaz: ISO built [04:38] can someone please approve my mail to ubuntu-devel (Subject: size of uec images) [05:12] slangasek: got it, thanks [05:25] slangasek: could you have a look at bug 445714? [05:25] Launchpad bug 445714 in image-store-proxy "[FFE] Image Store Proxy must handle compressed images" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445714 [07:02] * spaetz sighs. It seems that brightness special keys will be broken in karmic for quite a few models [07:13] is KMS there for ATI cards or not? [07:26] hi.. [07:26] whats the package name for The Color transformation Language in ubuntu? [07:33] Good morning [07:33] whats the package name for The Color transformation Language in ubuntu? [07:37] colorfilter? [07:38] or are you referring to the language it uses? cuz that's pure shader langage [07:39] pwnguin: yeah.. [07:39] pwnguin: ramenhdr uses it.. [07:40] pwnguin: i have downloaded the source package [07:40] pwnguin: but donno where to extract it in my ubuntu OS.. [07:40] oh i like this already [07:41] pwnguin: what?!!? [07:41] pwnguin: is the package in ubuntu? [07:41] no, just reading the homepage [07:42] good morning [07:42] pwnguin: ok.. can you tell me where to extract the header files and library files [07:43] for ramenhdr? [07:43] holy crap. i like it, but those build deps are wild [07:44] pwnguin: yeah... [07:44] intel tbb is probably a blocker [07:45] or [07:45] its packaged and older than i think [07:46] mohanohi: since this isn't directly related to ubuntu core development, perhaps we should move the conversation to #ubuntu-motu? [07:46] !info libtbb-dev [07:46] libtbb-dev (source: tbb): parallelism library for C++ - development files. In component universe, is extra. Version 2.1~20080605-1 (jaunty), package size 75 kB, installed size 528 kB [07:46] !info libtbb2 [07:46] libtbb2 (source: tbb): parallelism library for C++ - runtime files. In component universe, is extra. Version 2.1~20080605-1 (jaunty), package size 52 kB, installed size 172 kB [07:46] ^^^^^^^ [07:46] good to know [07:47] should be fine then. development / library headers generally end with -dev [07:51] pwnguin: i am in ubuntu-motu [08:26] morning [08:26] lool: are you working on the armel/neon patches for ffmpeg? or are you aware of someone working on them? [08:29] bug 383240 for reference [08:29] Launchpad bug 383240 in ffmpeg "Integrate and enable ARMv5TE/v6/VFP and NEON optimisations from ffmpeg trunk for armel" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/383240 [08:36] siretart, lool is travelling today (and might have coppy internet over the weekend until monday) [08:37] uff, gettext has a recommends on cvs now [08:38] * mvo reads bug #506022 [08:38] Error: Launchpad bug 506022 could not be found === sandberg_ is now known as sandberg [09:00] mvo, uh, say what? oh, and it's a debian bug [09:11] Keybuk: good morning [09:12] Keybuk: you said that your bug mailbox is overflowing, so please excuse the IRC ping: just posted a question for you in bug 439138 comment 67 [09:12] Launchpad bug 439138 in upstart "[karmic] Xorg 100% CPU utilization -- only after first login" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439138 [09:23] pitti: Hi. Does the DMB already also MOTU applications or will this be merged in the future and the MC is still responsible (for now)? [09:23] geser: I think the latter, but I'm not really sure [09:23] dholbach: ^ do you know? [09:24] pitti,geser: the latter === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === Whoopie_ is now known as Whoopie [09:57] pitti, what can I do to help diagnose bug 445846 [09:57] Launchpad bug 445846 in gdm "gdm doesn't set the correct keyboard layout in the session" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445846 [09:58] mdz: I think I know what's going on, but I'd like you to confirm; I just replied to the bug [09:58] mdz: so if you could check the gconftool line I gave you, that will do it (and also the command to unset it, and then try again if it works then) === balthus is now known as xba [11:05] kees: the upstream fix for koffice is to remove pdf import so I've done that in karmic [11:11] pitti: no, you can't, but you shouldn't need to [11:11] that bug is full of people misinterpreting the problem === xba is now known as xab [11:15] and it has nothing to do with console-setup [11:23] so far the bug can be summarised by "adding dependency on $RANDOM_THING_THAT_TAKES_SOME_TIME solves the problem for me!" [11:23] you may as well solve it by sticking "sleep 60" in there somewhere [11:24] at some point, maybe even today, I'm going to sit down - read the X source, and figure out what it actually *really* needs [11:24] I'd hoped someone else would do that so I didn't have to, but meh [11:28] Keybuk, i had a very weird bug yesterday, due to having to test a jaunty kernel on a default karmic install, the ext4 FS didnt work 100%, mountall got in a constant reboot loop and i had no chance to get into the system anymore [11:28] (mountall called fsck, fsck died, system rebooted ... same game over and over) [11:29] it doesn't reboot it fsck dies [11:29] Keybuk: well, it's not that random; it loops on ioctl VT_ACTIVATE while the underlying console went away or was changed; I just don't understand what else would even touch vt7, we have a hackish patch in gdm to not use vt 1 to 6 [11:29] it only reboots if fsck completes successfully after repairing the root fs [11:29] yes, and says its usual ************** REBOOT LINUX *************** [11:29] pitti: console-setup doesn't touch vt7 [11:29] pitti: I can tell this without looking, because cjwatson wrote it, and he's smart [11:29] but since one should look [11:30] warcraft scott% grep ACTIVE /etc/default/console-setup [11:30] ACTIVE_CONSOLES="/dev/tty[1-6]" [11:30] Keybuk, right, but wouldnt it make sense to have mountall to respect some kind of kernel cmdline option so you can forcefully disable fsck ? [11:30] pitti: it honestly wouldn't surprise me if the real culprit turns out to be cryptsetup [11:30] Keybuk, the system was fine, the filesystem wasnt corrupt, my clock was wrong and the last mount time was in the future [11:30] or something else that's using "console owner" :) [11:30] (ie. it could be mountall) [11:31] ogra: if that was the case, you would have been given a shell, not rebooted [11:31] due to the fact that it couldnt be mounted (caused by fsck dying to early and rebooting) it got into that endless loop [11:31] Keybuk: hm, I have cryptsetup installed, but no encrypted partitions at all [11:31] i didnt get a shell [11:31] though maybe it shouldn't just reboot, but let you have a shell ;) [11:31] yes :) [11:31] pitti: that doesn't matter - if cryptsetup is run, it "steals" the console [11:31] thats what i mean [11:31] stealing the console while X is running can be bad [11:31] any way of mounting the disk to actually fix the stamp [11:31] ok [11:32] pitti: stealing the console is the only way I know to actually "hang up" a tty [11:32] opening it, writing to it, mucking around with it, etc. are all safe [11:33] but starting something that attempts to become the foreground process group for /dev/console, when vt7 is active (which X is the fg pg for) can go wrong [11:33] this is why "console" in Upstart is bad [11:33] Keybuk: so, I'll ask in the bug whether the reporters have cryptsetup installed, and I'll also test it here again [11:33] yeah [11:33] it's at least another data point [11:33] it needs some genuine debugging - please don't rush a fix to this one [11:34] lots of things will "appear" to solve it [11:36] Keybuk: the other obvious candidate is usplash, I guess? [11:36] (although that should be on vt8) === ogra_ is now known as ogra === ogra is now known as Guest77653 === Guest77653 is now known as ogra [11:42] pitti, btw, was there a final decision if usplash gets enabled by default again ? [11:42] (/me needs to prepare an arm specific change if not, we surely want it there) [11:43] ogra: the most recent decision I'm aware of is still the one from UDS: let it run when required (cryptsetup et al) or after a timeout when X doesn't start fast enough [11:43] but right now it just seems to start unconditionally again [11:44] either that, or the timeout is working :) (can't say with my 85 second boot) [11:44] right, on armel we're about 8-10sec in the initramfs, its between 10 and 13secd until X comes up [11:44] and the vendor kernels spit out messages where we dont want to see any ... [11:45] so usplash is a clear yes for me on that arch [11:45] pitti: it's not unconditional if you have cryptsetup installed... [11:45] ah, so that might be it [11:45] (i.e.: "cryptsetup is installed" is the condition under which it runs) [11:45] well, I have crytpsetup, but no encrypted partitiosn [11:46] slangasek: I had thought that only the prompt would actually cause it to start up; but that might look bad indeed [11:46] in theory it's possible to tweak the cryptsetup initramfs hook to not set USPLASH=yes unless needed [11:46] something for lucid perhaps [11:46] but it looked hairy and I couldn't bring myself to work on it [11:47] it'd just be nice to be able to install cryptsetup by default again [11:47] pitti: in yesterday's foundations meeting, we decided to enable it by default for karmic and revisit for lucid; the action is mine [11:47] since it's useful for encrypted USB sticks and the like, even more so since we finally have a GUI tool to set them up [11:47] cjwatson: sounds like a safe approach for karmic, thansk [11:47] * ogra hugs cjwatson [11:48] prevents me from adding ugly hacks :) [11:48] slangasek: we probably don't need to enable usplash on the fly during boot; making the USPLASH= value dependent on an empty/nonempty /etc/crypttab should be sufficient [11:48] but anyway, that's lucid beautification [11:49] pitti: it wouldn't be enabled on the fly - we have enough information at initramfs generation time to tell us whether it's needed for the root fs [11:49] except that the way the initramfs scripts are put together, we currently don't get that information until well after we've set USPLASH=yes :) [11:51] tseliot: would you mind re-owning lp:screen-resolution-extra to ubuntu-core-dev? [11:52] tseliot: I'd like to fix the policykit breakage (bug 435709), but I can't push to it [11:52] Launchpad bug 435709 in screen-resolution-extra "Needs porting to policykit-1" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435709 [11:52] tseliot: I'd also add a proper Vcs-Bzr: tag [11:52] pitti: sure [11:55] pitti: I don't think I can as launchpad allows me to set the owner to either myself or to a team I'm a member of (and I'm not a core-dev) [11:55] tseliot: oh, perhaps just ubuntu-dev [11:55] should be fine for now [11:57] pitti: I can't choose that either. Maybe if you add me to Jockey hackers I can set the group to that (just an idea) or we can use some other team [11:57] tseliot: oh, you aren't a MOTU? [11:57] pitti: nope [11:57] whee, you really ought to [11:57] yes, I know [11:57] I'll apply for MOTU too then [11:58] tseliot: well, let me just push my branch to ~ubuntu-core-dev, and we merge back and forth, shall we? [11:58] slangasek: did you have a look at my addition to the release notes (about DontZap)? [11:58] ~ubuntu-desktop would be more appropriate actually [11:58] pitti: ok [11:59] tseliot: not yet, I'm afraid; it's still on my todo list, however [11:59] (release notes work starts in earnest this week) [11:59] tseliot: for testing, just calling ./policy-dontzap.py should give me the status, right? now it just hangs with changing the mouse cursor and doesn't do anything [11:59] slangasek: ok, good [12:00] pitti: make a backup of your xorg.conf and then type: python /usr/share/screen-resolution-extra/policyui.py 2048x2048 [12:00] don't use the dontzap code (as we don't use it in Ubuntu) [12:00] tseliot: oh, that works; (it's actually lying since on intel that's not necessary any more) [12:01] tseliot: right, I just looked for something to test the new policykit stuff, and ./policyui.py just hangs the same way [12:01] dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.PolicyKit.AuthenticationAgent was not provided by any .service files [12:01] pitti: gnome-display-properties decides whether it needs to call screen-resolution-extra or not [12:01] hah [12:01] tseliot: ok, that should do, thanks! [12:01] * tseliot can't reproduce the problem here... :-( [12:02] tseliot: oh, I know why it hangs; I tried ./policy-dontzap.py, it's executable, but doesn't have a hashbang line [12:02] tseliot: don't worry, I know the problem (you certainly have policykit-gnome installed) [12:02] tseliot: in fact, that exception was _exactly_ what I wanted ) [12:02] pitti: ah, very good then. Thanks for working on this [12:04] tseliot: pushing to lp:~ubuntu-desktop/screen-resolution-extra/ubuntu now; I'll let you know when you should pull into main [12:05] pitti: ok [12:07] pitti: maybe we should add a dependency on either policykit-1-gnome or on policykit-gnome to screen-resolution-extra === porthose is now known as porthose|afk [12:07] tseliot: yes, I'll do that (but I'll port it to pk-1) [12:08] ok [12:08] seb128: that should fix bug #446199 [12:08] ^^ [12:08] Launchpad bug 446199 in screen-resolution-extra "gnome-display-properties hangs when trying to set VirtualScreen size" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446199 [12:09] pitti: do you mind if I assign the bug to you (as you're working on it)? [12:09] done === nhandler_ is now known as nhandler [12:15] pitti: shall I pull your changes into main now? [12:15] tseliot: no, I just started; I'll ping you when they are done [12:15] ah, ok, I was wondering what that "done" stood for === Igorot is now known as Knightlust [12:23] tseliot, pitti: thanks for fixing the display thing === sabdfl1 is now known as sabdfl [12:24] pitti: about bug 439138, I experience it and I use cryptsetup. Can't disable it for testing though. [12:24] Launchpad bug 439138 in upstart "[karmic] Xorg 100% CPU utilization -- only after first login" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439138 [12:26] tseliot: hm, fun; your d-bus methods (setDontZap etc.) don't actually call _check_permission(), thus everyone can just call them without auth [12:27] pitti: you can remove it if you want as it's really useless now [12:27] tseliot: no, that's actually a security bug.. [12:27] pitti: yes, I picked that up [12:27] tseliot: I want to fix it to actually use PK :) [12:28] pitti: ok, maybe it's better to do that at this point [12:29] tseliot: have you heard of a problem like #439594 ? [12:29] tseliot: it's the only sensible point to check that [12:29] bug #439594 [12:29] Launchpad bug 439594 in update-manager "X crashes while upgrading from Jaunty to Karmic using update-manager" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439594 [12:30] let me check [12:30] tseliot: apparently when using fglrx while fglrx got upgraded [12:31] mvo: oh, that's really something you should ask superm1 about [12:32] tseliot: ok, I may be able to setup a system to test this, but it is some work so I want to know more about it first :) [12:34] mvo, pitti: also I was thinking that maybe I should remove nvidia-common's debconf interface from the kernel postinst and simply rely on Update Manager to migrate drivers (bug #292606). What do you think? [12:34] Launchpad bug 292606 in nvidia-common "dkms - error when installing custom kernel" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292606 [12:35] users who dist-upgrade from the command line would be on their own though [12:35] tseliot: hm, not sure; I like people not getting messed up completely if they use aptitude or apt-get dist-upgrade [12:35] tseliot: does it cause troubles? [12:36] pitti: it looks like DKMS doesn't flush the stdout and causes nvidia-common to get an invalid reply about the driver it should recommend [12:37] * tseliot -> lunch === sladen_ is now known as sladen [12:52] superm1: could you please let me know if you heard about bug #439594 or if you have a simple way to test this? [12:52] Launchpad bug 439594 in update-manager "X crashes while upgrading from Jaunty to Karmic using update-manager" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439594 [12:54] tseliot: 7 files changed, 57 insertions(+), 236 deletions(-) [12:55] tseliot: :) [13:03] tseliot: done, please pull from lp:~ubuntu-desktop/screen-resolution-extra/ubuntu [13:08] pitti, since about yesterday, nautilus is opening PDF documents with gedit on my system, which doesn't work so well. evince is not even visible in "Open with...". known issue? [13:08] in fact, .odp and .mp3 are being opened with gedit as well [13:09] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shared-mime-info/0.70-0ubuntu1 possibly? [13:09] hi team, who can sync ibus and ibus-m17n? (pitti approved it yesterday) [13:09] uploaded 42 hours ago [13:09] happyaron: is it urgent? [13:10] 0.60-2 to 0.70-0ubuntu1 (420.2 KiB) eek [13:10] james_w not very, but it contains the first pot file for translations in ibus package [13:10] happyaron: have patience then, it will be done today or tomorrow I expect [13:10] james_w: thanks, :) [13:11] mdz: probably easiest to try and downgrade? [13:11] I'm not sure how much caching, if any, is done, so a session restart may be required? [13:11] mdz, what libglib2.0-0 version do you run? [13:11] mdz, and did you restart nautilus since you upgraded glib? [13:11] seb128, ii libglib2.0-0 2.22.2-0ubuntu1 The GLib library of C routines [13:11] mdz 27013 0.0 0.6 570612 20948 ? S Oct06 0:21 nautilus [13:12] restarting nautilus now [13:12] mdz, restart nautilus [13:12] seb128, that fixed it, thanks [13:12] you're welcome [13:20] mdz: fwiw, the vast majority of that the shared-mime-info diff is translations and updated autotools stuff. [13:20] soren, looks like it wasn't the cause either, thankfully [13:20] I'm about due for a reboot [13:21] mdz: you're not the first to report that, I saw a report of it the other day [13:22] mdz: bug 444962 [13:22] Launchpad bug 444962 in glib2.0 "shared-mime-info-0.7-ubuntu1 update is broken" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444962 [13:22] ah, heh, hadn't seen it reassigned [13:22] I had a somewhat similar problem yesterday as well. I tried to open a pdf with evince from the command line, and it refused, claiming it didn't know how to handle application/octet-stream documents. [13:22] An apt-get upgrade fixed it for mem. [13:22] me.. [13:32] seb128: do you plan new gtk+2.0 uploads? if not I would like to re-upload for an arm rebuild [13:32] doko_, before karmic yes, today maybe not [13:32] same with glib2.0 [13:32] same reply [13:32] ok [13:33] do you need a quick rebuild or that can wait for the next changes? [13:34] pitti: ok [13:35] pitti: hey [13:36] pitti: do you know why we don't ship human icon theme anymore? [13:39] mat_t, it's not used by default and take space on the cd which we use for other things,ie translations [13:41] seb128: who made this decision? [13:42] mat_t, to use humanity by default? ask djsiegel [13:42] seb128: to remove human [13:43] mat_t, to not install human by default, it was a requirement to switch to humanity to win cd space, pitti did the change [13:43] mat_t, is there any issue with that? [13:43] seb128: ok, so was that pitti's decision? [13:43] mat_t, collection distro decision if you want [13:43] collective [13:44] cds are what they are and we have to make the default install use one [13:44] mat_t, do you have an issue with not having it installed by default? [13:44] mat_t, open a bug and talk to pitti or slangasek I guess... [13:45] seb128: ok, I'm not saying the decision is wrong, but anything that affects the user experience on a large scale should be consulted with the design team [13:45] mat_t, it doesn't affect anything? it just don't list an extra theme which is not used by default... [13:45] mat_t, using humanity was a user design team request [13:45] seb128: the potential consequences are, if the icon is not present in humanity, it will be replaced by gnome default, which is less consistent [13:46] mat_t, and that has been discussed with djsiegel without doing the change [13:46] seb128: I'm only talking about removing human [13:46] mat_t, we specifically checked with the design team that human was not required as a fallback for humanity [13:46] seb128: with whom? [13:46] djsiegel when he did the request [13:47] and some of the icon guys were on the channel too [13:47] seb128: ok, I see [13:48] seb128: please don't understand me wrong, I know the importance of disk space, but decisions like that must be confirmed with ivanka [13:48] mat_t, the request came from djsiegel [13:48] mat_t, next time send whoever is deciding to discuss the changes? [13:49] mat_t, I think djsiegel was representing your team there [13:49] seb128: ok, I see your point. I'll pass that on. [13:49] hi [13:49] mat_t, we didn't do anything out of making the change your team request one day before beta freeze in a hurry [13:51] hi can someone help me??? and sry for my bad english ^^ [13:51] mat_t, don't get me wrong but we made efforts to accomodate changes request from your team coming very late, ie the day of the beta freeze, not sure we can take blame there [13:51] seb128: Absolutely. I was only asking where the request came from. I know you guys did a lot to accomodate late changes. [13:52] bb [13:52] mat_t, ok thanks, and please let us know now if other changes are required [13:52] seb128: thanks seb! [13:53] * ogra notes that "importance of diskspace" is a funny phrasing ... [13:53] you're welcome, sorry for the confusion there [13:53] there simply is none :) [13:58] smoser: you understand that the difference in download size between a 2GB tar.gz and a 10GB tar.gz is going to be minimal, right? [13:58] pitti: ok, I pulled from your branch and pushed to my branch [13:59] tseliot: thanks [13:59] slangasek, yes. [13:59] smoser: btw, I've already poked the tar -S code into the build script (but haven't committed it yet), that was the easiest way for me to do an empirical test ;) [13:59] but the 2G have other advantages [13:59] pitti: thanks for working on it. Please upload it when you can [13:59] smoser: ok, just making sure that was the case :) [13:59] tseliot: already done :) [13:59] even better [14:00] big advantage is that per default UEC settings, you could only run 10G images on a "large" instance type [14:00] mdz: gedit problem> seems settled now? [14:00] with 2G we can run on any of the sizes. [14:00] hi mat_t [14:00] hey pitti - all clear now, just talking to seb128 about it atm [14:00] :) [14:00] mat_t: that was discussed with kwwii, and it seemed quite obvious to replace human with humanity; it actually just fell off the CD by itself, since human-theme moved dependency from human to humanity [14:01] pitti, seems that humanity doesn't have as many icons that human [14:01] mat_t: ah, the fallback issue actually came up in #u-desktop, and we were told that the coverage should be pretty much identical now [14:01] pitti, yes, thanks to seb128 [14:01] so dropping human means some fallback go to very different icons [14:02] hm, when we did the switch we were told it had.. [14:03] pitti: ok, understood. In case there's a need to "bring back" human, what are the consequences? Lang packs? [14:03]