[07:58]  * Amaranth looks around
[08:05] <robert_ancell> meeting anyone?
[08:05] <robert_ancell> motu meeting?
[08:27] <dholbach> soren, nixternal, nhandler, persia: you guys around?
[08:28] <soren> I was *just* about to ping you :)
[08:28] <dholbach> Amaranth, robert_ancell: sorry for that
[08:29]  * robert_ancell hopes Amaranth hasn't gone to sleep
[08:29] <dholbach> hi geser
[08:30] <geser> Hi
[08:30]  * Amaranth looks around again
[08:30] <dholbach> we just need one more
[08:30] <dholbach> jpds does not seem to be online
[08:30] <Amaranth> glad I changed xchat to beep someone someone talks to me
[08:30] <dholbach> nixternal and nhandler are probably sleeping
[08:30] <dholbach> maybe persia is around
[08:30] <dholbach> I'll text jpds - can you try pinging the others somehow? :)
[08:30] <Laney> Quick! Elect Laney to the MC!
[08:31] <geser> dholbach: didn't jpds planned to wake up early? looks like it didn't work :)
[08:31]  * persia is belatedly here
[08:31] <dholbach> ah great - hi persia
[08:31] <dholbach> #startmeeting
[08:31] <MootBot> Meeting started at 02:31. The chair is dholbach.
[08:31] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[08:31] <dholbach> [TOPIC] Travis Watkins, applies for MOTU and upload rights for compiz packages.
[08:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  Travis Watkins, applies for MOTU and upload rights for compiz packages.
[08:32] <dholbach> hi Amaranth - how are you doing?
[08:32] <Amaranth> howdy
[08:32] <dholbach> glad you didn't go to bed already :)
[08:32] <Amaranth> very sleepy :)
[08:32] <dholbach> Amaranth: I might be mistaken, but weren't you a MOTU before already?
[08:32] <Amaranth> yeah
[08:32] <dholbach> ok
[08:33] <dholbach> do you have any non-compiz plans for the next months/weeks?
[08:33] <dholbach> geser, persia, soren: questions?
[08:33] <Amaranth> well, some gnome desktop stuff related to compiz :)
[08:34] <soren> dholbach: No, I'm ready to vote :)
[08:34] <persia> I have no useful questions for Amaranth applying to upload compiz: that the upload can't happen is the worse case.
[08:34] <dholbach> Amaranth: just today I read a message about compiz and gnome3 - do you know what's happening there?
[08:34] <Amaranth> well, gnome-shell pretty much kicks compiz out
[08:35] <Amaranth> since it's the window manager and the panel
[08:35] <Amaranth> not sure what we're going to do about it yet
[08:35] <dholbach> ok, just wanted to know if you knew a bit more :)
[08:35] <dholbach> geser: questions?
[08:35] <persia> Actualy, I do have a question: what is the list of "compiz packages"?  I don't see that in the application, and it's important to include to get the per-package uploader stuff.
[08:35]  * dholbach is all set
[08:36] <Amaranth> compiz, compiz-fusion-plugins-main, compiz-fusion-plugins-extras, libcompizconfig, compiz-bcop, emerald, libcompizconfig-backend-gconf, libcompizconfig-backend-kconfig
[08:36] <geser> Amaranth: your application for MOTU is re-activation, right? and the upload rights for compiz are new or did you have them in past already too?
[08:36] <Amaranth> don't think I missed any...
[08:36] <Amaranth> MOTU is reactivation, compiz part is new
[08:37] <persia> Amaranth, Would you mind adding that to the wiki page at some point?
[08:37] <Amaranth> persia: will do
[08:37] <mvo> probably also compizconfig-settings-manager
[08:37] <Amaranth> ah, right
[08:37] <Amaranth> and the python bindings
[08:37]  * mvo is here to also show his support for Amaranth
[08:37] <Amaranth> but that stuff is in universe
[08:38] <mvo> oh, right - forgot that this is MOTU+compiz
[08:38] <persia> Amaranth, With the future plans, it's better to define "compiz packages" inclusively, regardless of where it currently sits.  That means nothing changes if they move.
[08:38] <dholbach> geser, persia: more questions?
[08:38] <Amaranth> persia: understood
[08:40] <dholbach> geser, persia: do you have any more questions?
[08:40] <persia> I don't.
[08:40] <geser> dholbach: no questions
[08:40] <dholbach> [Vote] Shall Travis Watkins be re-added to MOTU?
[08:40] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Travis Watkins be re-added to MOTU?.
[08:40] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[08:40] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[08:40] <dholbach> +1
[08:40] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[08:40] <geser> +1
[08:40] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[08:40] <persia> +1
[08:40] <MootBot> +1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[08:40] <dholbach> soren?
[08:40] <soren> +1
[08:40] <MootBot> +1 received from soren. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[08:41] <dholbach> [endvote]
[08:41] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[08:41] <Amaranth> yay
[08:41] <dholbach> [Vote] Shall Travis Watkins be recommended for compiz-related uploads?
[08:41] <persia> We're doing two separate votes for the separate parts of the application?
[08:41] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Travis Watkins be recommended for compiz-related uploads?.
[08:41] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[08:41] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[08:41] <dholbach> +1
[08:41] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[08:41] <soren> +1
[08:41] <persia> +1
[08:41] <MootBot> +1 received from soren. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[08:41] <MootBot> +1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[08:41] <geser> +1
[08:41] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[08:41] <dholbach> [endvote]
[08:41] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[08:41] <Amaranth> yay x2
[08:41] <dholbach> congratulations Amaranth! :)
[08:41]  * dholbach hugs Amaranth
[08:41]  * Amaranth does a sleepy dance
[08:41] <soren> Yay indeed.
[08:41] <soren> Now get to work :)
[08:42] <dholbach> [TOPIC] Robert Ancell's MOTU application
[08:42] <MootBot> New Topic:  Robert Ancell's MOTU application
[08:42] <dholbach> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertAncell/MOTUApplication
[08:42] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertAncell/MOTUApplication
[08:42] <robert_ancell> ok
[08:42] <dholbach> hi robert_ancell - how are you doing?
[08:42]  * mvo hugs Amaranth
[08:42] <robert_ancell> good
[08:42] <Amaranth> now I can be a robert_ancell cheerleader too
[08:43] <dholbach> robert_ancell: do you have any plans for the multitude of preferences/administration tools? :)
[08:44] <robert_ancell> dholbach, not at the moment - there seem to be so many attempts at improving them that haven't gone anywhere
[08:44] <robert_ancell> I plan on fixing individual ones as the opportunities arise
[08:44] <dholbach> geser, soren, persia: questions?
[08:45] <geser> no
[08:45] <soren> dholbach: I was going to ask the same thing you just did :)
[08:45] <soren> ..so no.
[08:45] <robert_ancell> I do actually plan on fixing the user ones for Karmic
[08:45] <robert_ancell> Lucid
[08:45] <persia> robert_ancell, Looking at your uploads, most everything seems to be in the Desktop group.  What made you decide to apply for MOTU rather than being a Desktop Developer?
[08:46] <dholbach> robert_ancell: what do you mean by "user ones"?
[08:46] <robert_ancell> dholbach, user management (about-me, users)
[08:46] <dholbach> ahh ok
[08:46] <robert_ancell> persia, I was recommended to apply for MOTU as a stepping stone to being a developer
[08:47] <robert_ancell> a number of packages I work on are in universe (cheese, glade)
[08:47] <dholbach> also there's no way to apply for "Desktop Developer" yet
[08:48] <persia> Well, one can apply for per-package for the contents of a seed, but yeah.
[08:48] <dholbach> right
[08:48] <dholbach> any more questions?
[08:50] <geser> can we start voting? :)
[08:50] <dholbach> persia?
[08:50] <persia> I'm good.
[08:50] <dholbach> alrightie
[08:50] <dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Robert Ancell become a MOTU?
[08:50] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Robert Ancell become a MOTU?.
[08:50] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[08:50] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[08:50] <dholbach> +1
[08:50] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[08:50] <geser> +1
[08:50] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[08:50] <soren> +1
[08:50] <MootBot> +1 received from soren. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[08:50] <persia> 1
[08:51]  * dholbach gives persia a '+'
[08:51] <persia> WHy do I need a '+', and nobody else?
[08:51] <persia> +1
[08:51] <MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[08:51] <dholbach> [endvote]
[08:51] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[08:51] <persia> (or is my client just failing to display properly?)
[08:51] <dholbach> congratulations robert_ancell!
[08:52] <robert_ancell> yay! Thanks all!
[08:52] <dholbach> persia: I guess the latter - we all typed '+1'
[08:52] <dholbach> [TOPIC] Any other business?
[08:52] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
[08:52]  * dholbach waits a few seconds. :)
[08:53] <dholbach> just a quick note: I can't make the next meeting (Oct 22nd, 17 UTC)
[08:53] <Amaranth> wasn't there someone else?
[08:53] <dholbach> Amaranth: afaics that was for the next meeting
[08:54] <Amaranth> ah, he changed it
[08:54] <dholbach> ok... adjourned :)
[08:54] <dholbach> #endmeeting
[08:54] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 02:54.
[08:54] <Amaranth> thanks guys
[08:54] <dholbach> thanks persia, soren, geser and Amaranth and robert_ancell :)
[08:56] <soren> o/
[15:06] <LaserJock> ok, well it looks like we have the room
[15:06] <LaserJock> #startmeeting
[15:06] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:06. The chair is LaserJock.
[15:06] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:07] <LaserJock> who all is here for the Edubuntu meeting?
[15:07] <LaserJock> o/
[15:07] <dinda> o/
[15:07] <dinda> sbalneav: ping
[15:08] <alkisg> o/
[15:08] <sbalneav> dinda: Hello
[15:09] <LaserJock> ok, well, that's a few people anyway
[15:09] <dinda> don't see highvoltage online
[15:09] <LaserJock> ok, well, let's start rolling and see who comes in
[15:09] <LaserJock> what I want to talk about today is Karmic
[15:10] <LaserJock> we have 6 days until Final Freeze
[15:10] <LaserJock> so what needs to be done by then?
[15:10] <sbalneav> I've got the DVD image downloaded, and started installing last night.
[15:11] <LaserJock> [TOPIC] Karmic Final Freeze prep
[15:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Final Freeze prep
[15:11] <LaserJock> sbalneav: which image?
[15:11] <LaserJock> the latest daily or Beta?
[15:11] <sbalneav> Beta
[15:12] <LaserJock> ok, well .... I broke the dailies
[15:12] <LaserJock> or somehow they broke, I assume it was something I did
[15:12] <sbalneav> brb, workping.. caryon
[15:12] <LaserJock> I'm trying to squeeze as much out of the DVD as possible so it's not a huge shock to users
[15:12] <LaserJock> I was able to get it down to 2.4GB
[15:13] <LaserJock> but now the text-based installer no longer works
[15:13] <LaserJock> so no LTSP/edubuntu-server
[15:13] <alkisg> LaserJock: so what should we download for a test? The daily (==to debug the problem) or the beta?
[15:13] <LaserJock> if you can do the daily please do
[15:13] <LaserJock> the Beta is more for general user testing
[15:14] <LaserJock> for people who are only going to test once
[15:14] <alkisg> OK, but downloading a dvd takes about 8h for me, so I can only test a couple of times :)
[15:14] <LaserJock> alkisg: even with rsync?
[15:15] <alkisg> Yeah 2 mbps only... :-/
[15:15] <alkisg> Thanks, carry on...
[15:15] <LaserJock> well, I don't have very fast internet either unfortunately
[15:15] <LaserJock> in any case
[15:15] <LaserJock> the daily builds are what will actually become the Release Candidate next week
[15:16] <LaserJock> so we sort of need to do as much testing on those as we can
[15:16] <LaserJock> I'll try to get ahold of cjwatson or somebody who know d-i, but they're all enormously busy with Ubuntu's release, etc.
[15:17] <LaserJock> [ACTION] LaserJock to track down current d-i problem
[15:17] <MootBot> ACTION received:  LaserJock to track down current d-i problem
[15:17] <LaserJock> what else should be done for karmic?
[15:18] <LaserJock> sbalneav: what's the status of sabayon in Karmic?
[15:18] <LaserJock> stgraber, alkisg : is LTSP looking good?
[15:18] <stgraber> I think so
[15:19] <stgraber> (sorry was fixing an issue at the office)
[15:19] <stgraber> if they don't break any additional thing with upstart it should work correctly and be release-ready
[15:19]  * alkisg also tried the latest LTSP and it looks fine...
[15:20] <alkisg> I can't get italc to stop crashing, though :(
[15:20] <LaserJock> stgraber: you know about that ^^ ?
[15:20] <cjwatson> stgraber: can you check whether it still works now that we're using upstart by default?
[15:20] <cjwatson> err
[15:20] <cjwatson> now that we're using USPLASH by default
[15:21] <stgraber> ah, I'll need to test
[15:21] <stgraber> LaserJock: yeah
[15:21] <cjwatson> LaserJock: do you have logs of the d-i failure somewhere?
[15:21] <stgraber> LaserJock: italc bug unfortunately
[15:21] <LaserJock> cjwatson: I don' t have the logs, I just wrote down the error message
[15:22] <cjwatson> unfortunately error messages alone are usually not massively useful but sometimes you get lucky
[15:22] <LaserJock> cjwatson: it was trying to install e2fsprogs and said that it was missing 4 things, libnewt0.52, libuuid1 and a couple others
[15:23] <LaserJock> cjwatson: it was at the very beginning of installing the base system that it bailed
[15:23] <ogra> cjwatson, i belive usplash was enabled forcefully by setting USPLASH=yes last upload
[15:23] <cjwatson> ogra: look at who did the upload.
[15:23] <ogra> (or do you refer to the loglevel changes)
[15:23] <LaserJock> cjwatson: the ncurses error that came up was something about missing the multiverse Packages files
[15:24] <ogra> cjwatson, i know who does upload ltsp apart from me :)
[15:24] <stgraber> I currently set USPLASH=yes in the ltsp package, that may not be necessary anymore though
[15:24] <cjwatson> ogra: oh, I uploaded usplash to enable it across the board. but if ltsp was already uploading it, fine
[15:24] <cjwatson> stgraber: you can keep doing so
[15:24] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Sabayon is functional.
[15:24] <LaserJock> sbalneav: the version in karmic?
[15:24] <sbalneav> 2.28.0 I beleive
[15:24] <cjwatson> LaserJock: it doesn't have *any* Packages files, which might not be helping matters ;-) I'll look
[15:24] <ogra> cjwatson, well, the setting can go again if its enabled anyway
[15:25] <LaserJock> cjwatson: awesome, thanks
[15:25] <ogra> no needto diverge from the distro there
[15:25] <cjwatson> ogra: not really a divergence, and besides, usplash might be turned off by default again in lucid
[15:25] <LaserJock> cjwatson: I assumed it was due to my seed changes but I should be just using Ubuntu's for the d-i stuff so I was not sure where to start debugging it
[15:25] <ogra> yeah, ltsp should indeed keep it, the boottimes are definately longer
[15:25] <cjwatson> LaserJock: I think it's a cdimage bug of some kind
[15:26] <LaserJock> cjwatson: k
[15:26] <LaserJock> sbalneav: we've got that, thanks
[15:26] <LaserJock> in terms of overall package versions
[15:26] <LaserJock> we're a tad behind Debian wrt gpaint and denemo
[15:27] <LaserJock> it would've been nice to get the new upstreams in but we're quite late for that
[15:27] <LaserJock> so I think we'll have to wait for Lucid
[15:27] <LaserJock> Gcompris is looking good according to upstream
[15:28] <LaserJock> I've got a couple little bugs on the Live side of the DVD I'd like to fix
[15:28] <LaserJock> for some reason  Ubiquity isn't getting removed on install
[15:29] <LaserJock> and gnome-app-install is installed, I'm not sure if that's supposed to happen
[15:29] <LaserJock> what about documentation?
[15:30] <LaserJock> I know for one that a new edubuntu-docs needs to get uploaded
[15:31] <LaserJock> I fixed a few issues in edubuntu-artwork bzr regarding the Firefox homepage, that needs to be uploaded
[15:31]  * LaserJock suddenly wonders if he's talking to himself again
[15:33] <LaserJock> ok then
[15:33] <dinda> is anyone working on the docs?
[15:33] <LaserJock> not that I know of
[15:34] <LaserJock> sbalneav is the LTSP doc guy, but I don't think we have anybody specifically working on Edubuntu docs
[15:34] <dinda> what needs to be done?
[15:34] <LaserJock> dinda: right now all we're shipping is an About Edubuntu
[15:34] <sbalneav> Which docs?  I'm working on the handbook.  Won't make it into the release, but it'll be in a ppa
[15:34] <sbalneav> I'm working on the edubuntu handbook
[15:34] <LaserJock> sbalneav: where is that?
[15:35] <sbalneav> I don't have a branch published anywhere yet.  I *do* have the LTSP docs published.
[15:35] <LaserJock> right I've seen a ltsp-docs uploaded
[15:35] <dinda> may not be able to get any help for this go round but can definitely round up help for the next cycle on docs
[15:36] <LaserJock> dinda: ok, that'd really help
[15:36] <LaserJock> basically we're treating Karmic as an Edubuntu Beta
[15:36] <LaserJock> we're wanting to get the DVD operational
[15:36] <LaserJock> start ramping the community up
[15:36] <dinda> fyi: not sure if you folks have seen discussions on Gnome and possibly Ubuntu going to Mallard for all documentation
[15:36] <dinda> it's a topic for UDS
[15:36] <LaserJock> dinda: I haven't seen much on that lately
[15:37] <LaserJock> dinda: so maybe for Lucid is the idea?
[15:37] <dinda> yip, lucid would be the first chance to use it
[15:37] <LaserJock> k
[15:38] <LaserJock> we're going to need a release announcement and release notes
[15:38] <LaserJock> I think the Edubuntu Council is going to take care of that
[15:38] <sbalneav> Mallard appears to be topic-based help, whereas the handbook is meant more to be as an actual *book*, at least, that's always been the intent.
[15:38] <LaserJock> so anything else that needs to be addressed before Release Candidate?
[15:38] <dinda> sbalneav: correct on mallard
[15:39] <LaserJock> sbalneav: right, an Edubuntu Handbook I envision being turned into a PDF
[15:39] <LaserJock> rather than use the system help
[15:39] <LaserJock> reading a book in yelp or mallard is not going to be fun, IMO
[15:40] <dinda> yeah, having a printed doc would be great
[15:40] <LaserJock> what I'd like to do is convert some of the material on the help wiki
[15:40] <LaserJock> into topic-based help
[15:40] <LaserJock> and then have the Edubuntu Handbook as something people can print out and hand to a teacher, etc.
[15:41] <highvoltage> sorry for being late
[15:41] <LaserJock> dinda: I think the doc situation is not exactly well defined at this point
[15:42] <LaserJock> sbalneav is the primary contributor these days
[15:42] <LaserJock> and as he's said, he's been working on an Edubuntu Handbook
[15:42] <LaserJock> but I think the area of topic-based help is wide open
[15:43] <LaserJock> but mostly I'd love to see more of the wiki material landing either on the users's machine (in the help system) or on edubuntu.org
[15:43] <LaserJock> edubuntu users are pretty good (think Asmo) about putting things on wiki pages
[15:44] <LaserJock> but we haven't been converting those into "official" docs much
[15:44] <LaserJock> anyway, that's more Luci discussion
[15:44] <LaserJock> *Lucid
[15:45] <LaserJock> so to summarize:
[15:45] <LaserJock> 1) fix DVD
[15:45] <LaserJock> 2) fix About Edubuntu/Edubuntu homepage
[15:45] <LaserJock> 3) make sure iTalc works
[15:45] <LaserJock> 4) EC to draft release announcement and release notes
[15:46] <LaserJock> and then I think we're pretty close to wrapping Karmic up
[15:46] <LaserJock> thoughts?
[15:48]  * LaserJock considers silence a big "that's right LaserJock, you da man!" :-)
[15:48] <LaserJock> the last item was the continued pursuit of a meeting time
[15:48] <LaserJock> I am going to do one last call for votes on doodle
[15:49] <LaserJock> and then I'll email a follow up with the top picks for meeting time
[15:49] <highvoltage> LaserJock: uhm uhm...!!!!
[15:49] <highvoltage> LaserJock: YES YOU DA MAN!
[15:49] <highvoltage> LaserJock: sorry just got to my PC and there were suddenly 10 things needing attention!
[15:49] <LaserJock> highvoltage: np
[15:50] <LaserJock> it wasn't exactly well announced this week
[15:50] <highvoltage> LaserJock: is there some kind of bug list or easy way to see what's required for #1?
[15:50] <highvoltage> LaserJock: where was it announced?
[15:50] <LaserJock> highvoltage: it's on the Fridge calendar
[15:50] <LaserJock> no emails this week though
[15:50] <highvoltage> ah, ok
[15:50] <LaserJock> I just realized it was Friday
[15:50] <LaserJock> and I wanted to discuss the DVD and what's needed to finish off Karmic
[15:50] <highvoltage> I'll have to subscribe to the fridge again. I thought it's calendar had been discontinued.
[15:51] <LaserJock> as far as #1, no there aren't any bugs
[15:51] <LaserJock> we should investigate a scheme for filing bugs against the DVD
[15:51] <LaserJock> I don't know how they do it in Ubuntu, but we should find out I guess
[15:51] <LaserJock> highvoltage: Fridge is just using Google Calendar
[15:52] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ok
[15:54] <LaserJock> anything else before we end?
[15:55] <LaserJock> going once
[15:55] <LaserJock> .... going twice
[15:56] <LaserJock> #endmeeting
[15:56] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:56.
[15:56] <LaserJock> ok, thanks for coming folks
[15:56] <LaserJock> and remember to test the DVD as much as possible!!
[15:58] <pitti> hello
[15:58] <Riddell> hello pitti
[15:59] <lool> Hi
[15:59]  * kees waves "hi"
[15:59]  * robbiew waves
[16:00]  * apw zones in
[16:01] <marjo> marjo waves
[16:01] <slangasek> morning, all
[16:01]  * rtg lurks
[16:01] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is slangasek.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meetings
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meetings
[16:02] <slangasek>   * marjo, davmor2 to coordinate ongoing testing of wubi with the dailies between now and RC
[16:02] <slangasek>   * slangasek and bdmurray to garden the regression-potential bugs
[16:02] <slangasek>   * Riddell to find bugs for kubuntu release issues and make sure they're milestoned
[16:02] <slangasek>   * slangasek to look at possible Kubuntu-only EOL announcement for 8.04
[16:02] <slangasek>   * asac__ to follow up on notify-osd/gpm regression
[16:02] <slangasek>   * ogra to email apw the list of armel kernel bugs for which merges are outstanding
[16:02] <slangasek>   * slangasek and smoser to coordinate dry-runs of UEC/EC2 publishing next week, in advance of RC
[16:02] <slangasek>   * davmor2 to work with ttx on creating a test plan for eucalyptus
[16:03] <marjo>  In progress. davmor2 following up on outstanding wubi bugs.
[16:03] <ogra> slangasek, we have worked rather directly on the bugs instead of going through slow email processes ... good progress on imx51 bugs last week
[16:03] <lool> ogra: You around?
[16:03]  * asac follows up _now_ not sure if its an issue anymore
[16:03] <lool> Oh here is
[16:03] <ogra> lool, i am
[16:03] <ogra> lool, ou could have called my new mobile from your new mobile ;)
[16:03] <ogra> *you
[16:03] <slangasek> regression-potential bugs - bdmurray did some work on this last Friday; I've done a little but not very much, so this is still outstanding on my side
[16:04] <Riddell> kubuntu bugs are milestoned, ones high on my radar are at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:05] <ttx> test plan for eucalyptus: done, needs some sync with ISO tracker, pinged marjo/ara about it
[16:05] <slangasek> UEC/EC2 publishing> this is in progress, there've been a number of changes in the past 48h to how UEC images are being published so we're not to the point of doing a full dry run yet
[16:05] <lool> ogra: That would have costed us both old EURs
[16:05] <ogra> pfft
[16:05] <ogra> i havent heard it ringing yet
[16:05] <ogra> would be worth an euro
[16:07] <slangasek> marjo: on the outstanding wubi bugs, is there a list of these?  the biggest problems with wubi testing in beta were presumed to all come down to a single mount option change, hopefully that's fixed by now
[16:07] <slangasek> (so if there are new wubi bugs that need fixed for release, I unfortunately don't know what they are)
[16:08] <slangasek> kubuntu-only EOL announcement for 8.04> still outstanding on my end
[16:08] <marjo> slangasek: actually it's really down to one bug
[16:08] <davmor2> slangasek: I was looking at hooking up with ttx and the testcase on Monday to ensure it worked as is and then follow up on changes throughout the week to ensure it plays nicely for rc
[16:08] <ttx> davmor2: I validated it myself today, fwiw
[16:08] <davmor2> cool :)
[16:09] <slangasek> ok, cool
[16:10] <cjwatson> slangasek: that ntfs-3g bug was supposed to be fixed, but we're still seeing instability
[16:10] <slangasek> marjo: ttx said he's pinged you about getting the eucalyptus test plan on the tracker... do you have enough info to get that changed in the database, or should you and I sit down and work through that? (today?)
[16:10] <slangasek> cjwatson: ah :/
[16:10] <cjwatson> slangasek: I've tried changing ntfs-3g to make syncio imply sync, which may help, but that was only today so I haven't had feedback yet
[16:10] <cjwatson> I'm worried about it
[16:10]  * slangasek nods
[16:10] <cjwatson> the symptoms are "bits randomly seem to not land on disk" ...
[16:10] <marjo> slangasek: ara owns that task, but maybe you and i can have a chat this pm, OK?
[16:11] <slangasek> [ACTION] marjo and slangasek to follow up on getting eucalyptus tests updated on tracker
[16:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  marjo and slangasek to follow up on getting eucalyptus tests updated on tracker
[16:11] <marjo> slangasek: thx!
[16:12] <davmor2> cjwatson: if you can get a respin in I can test it
[16:12] <slangasek> [ACTION] davmor2 to test wubi with syncio->sync fix ASAP
[16:12] <MootBot> ACTION received:  davmor2 to test wubi with syncio->sync fix ASAP
[16:13] <cjwatson> davmor2: sure, running now
[16:14] <slangasek> Riddell: btw, by "milestoned" do you mean "milestoned and targeted"?
[16:14] <slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
[16:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
[16:14] <Riddell> slangasek: targeted to karmic?  I think so I can double check
[16:14] <slangasek> Riddell: please :)
[16:15] <slangasek> marjo, cr3, fader: g'morning
[16:15] <marjo> Hardware testing
[16:15] <marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
[16:15] <marjo> Netbooks:
[16:15] <marjo> Passed: 8 (73%)      Failed:      1 ( 9%)    Untested:    2 (18%)
[16:15] <marjo> Laptops:
[16:15] <marjo> Passed: 21 (95%)     Failed:      0  ( 0%)   Untested:    1  ( 5%)
[16:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
[16:15] <marjo> Servers:
[16:15] <marjo> Passed: 42 (88%)     Failed:      0  ( 0%)   Untested:    6  (12%)
[16:15] <marjo> Desktops:
[16:15] <marjo> Passed: 10 (100%)    Failed:      0  (  0%)  Untested:    0  (  0%)
[16:16] <marjo> Results are looking good; should get more passes when some fixes come in and get verified
[16:16] <fader> FYI, the netbook failure seems to be resolved in the .32-rc3 mainline kernel so I imagine that one should get fixed soon
[16:16] <marjo> netbooks and laptops now are reported separately for ease of tracking
[16:17] <marjo> fader: thx.
[16:17] <slangasek> NC10> bug #340014 is thought to be fixed now, but the hardware has to be physically shipped back before we can get a cert test in?
[16:17] <fader> slangasek: I will ask manjo to run checkbox on it and send us the results
[16:17] <slangasek> ok
[16:17] <fader> And then ship it back :)
[16:17] <slangasek> are there ETAs on any of those RTs, and are any of the untested units critical to have results on for release?
[16:18] <slangasek> fader: right, sounds like a good plan
[16:18] <marjo> slangasek: i have upped the priority on RTs; fader will followup, as usual
[16:18] <marjo> will escalate, as necessary
[16:18] <fader> None of the RTs are critical for the release, and at least a couple of them are sparc systems so they're probably going to remain low priority
[16:19] <marjo> fader: thx
[16:20] <slangasek> marjo: and for the latter question?  are any of those units critical to have?
[16:20] <slangasek> oh, fader answered
[16:20] <slangasek> ok, great
[16:20] <slangasek> the other item I had for QA was bug #435714
[16:20] <marjo> next QA topic:
[16:21] <marjo> * Bug:435714: Please port to polkit-1 or drop policykit usage
[16:21] <marjo>    Implemented a potential fix, testing planned.
[16:21] <marjo> slangasek: that's all for QA topics; thx
[16:21] <slangasek> ok, great!
[16:21] <pitti> I discussed that with cr3 yesterday
[16:22] <pitti> and we settled for an easy implementation (just rip out all PK stuff)
[16:22] <marjo> pitti: thx for the update
[16:22] <slangasek> marjo, fader, pitti: thanks
[16:22] <cr3> and pitti has kindly offered to review my changes, which I will take advantage of once I'm done testing
[16:22] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
[16:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
[16:23] <mdz> marjo, fader: great job on the hardware testing reports!
[16:23] <mdz> and tracking issues
[16:23] <slangasek> pitti: good turnover on the bug list this week, but there seems to be no shortage of new bugs to take their place on the list :)
[16:23] <marjo> mdz: thx for your support!
[16:24] <pitti> as usual, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:24] <pitti> We are in full bug fixing mode now.
[16:24] <pitti> This week we fixed 7 RC bugs. 8 (ugh) new bugs were added to the radar.
[16:24] <pitti> We are currently discussing a bug fix release of X.org. It was approved and is being prepared for upload.
[16:24] <pitti> This week we also landed a large bug fix release for mesa, after lots of discussion; it caused three regressions on radeon cards, two of which have patches; Monday is the final call for whether to keep or revert it.
[16:24] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:24] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:24] <pitti> slangasek: whack'a'rat :)
[16:24] <pitti> asac seemed to be keen to milestone half of his bugs
[16:25] <slangasek> yes, he usually is... :)
[16:26] <Riddell> Kubuntu?
[16:26] <asac> what needs to be fixed needs to be fixed imo.
[16:27] <pitti> Riddell: please go ahead
[16:27] <slangasek> 424132> is this partially fixed already? it seems like the "utterly broken" no longer applies?
[16:28] <Riddell> Good progress on RC bugs including kpackagekit being fixed and upgrade from hardy in testing
[16:28] <Riddell> still on my radar..
[16:28] <Riddell> "Wrong translation catalogue filename (KPackageKit)", 425373
[16:28] <Riddell> KDM/ksmserver hangs on logout, Intel only, 432521
[16:28] <Riddell> "Microblogs plasmoid does not show friend timelines nor public timeline", Jonathan to investigate 414572
[16:28] <Riddell> "OOo KDE file dialog is utterly broken", good progress being made, 424132
[16:28] <Riddell> Qt fails to build
[16:28] <Riddell> actually the first of those is fixed
[16:28] <Riddell> that's what I get for preparing my report the night before
[16:28] <pitti> slangasek: 424132> seems it got better for some people, but it's not entirely clear
[16:28] <Riddell> I'm testing a fix for Qt build, Debian has the same issue and it only happens in buildds
[16:29] <Riddell> ScottK also reported an issue with the application launcher missing icons in netbook
[16:29] <Riddell> but I think we're on target for release
[16:29]  * Riddell done
[16:30] <slangasek> pitti, Riddell: I think we need some triage follow-through on 424132, then; if "better for some people" fixes the critical problems then the bug severity ought to be downgraded, if it doesn't that should be clarified
[16:30] <slangasek> right now, it's not clear to me how much of this bug is being considered release-critical
[16:30] <pitti> slangasek: hm, given Roman's list there still seems to be a lot which is wrong in our packages
[16:31] <Riddell> slangasek: I believe he's fixed most of the issues and it just needs to go into the packaging
[16:31]  * ScottK is her now.
[16:31] <slangasek> pitti: half of his list of outstanding problems are "you can't filter the file dialog" - hardly critical?
[16:31] <ScottK> her/here
[16:32] <Riddell> right, the remaining issues we can live with
[16:32] <pitti> ok, so maybe "medium" then?
[16:32] <Riddell> I'll check in with him about the status of getting his fixes into the package and review the bug status
[16:33] <davidbarth> slangasek: DX?
[16:34] <slangasek> pitti: btw, I don't like seeing "not really a major bug" judgements being made in the release status page that aren't reflected in the *bug* status in LP - if you disagree with a bug being marked as "high" in LP, please adjust the severity...
[16:34] <slangasek> davidbarth: one more second
[16:34] <pitti> ok, noted; will update the bugs
[16:35] <pitti> done
[16:36] <slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
[16:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
[16:36] <slangasek> pitti, Riddell: thanks
[16:36] <slangasek> davidbarth: go ahead
[16:36] <davidbarth> the status is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
[16:36] <davidbarth> slangasek: sorry, i thought i was part of the Desktop thread ;)
[16:36] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
[16:36] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
[16:37] <lool> davidbarth: Sorry wanted tocontact you earlier about it, but could you put https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/maximus/+bug/421019 in your karmic list?
[16:37] <davidbarth> the release targeted bugs are under control, either fixed
[16:37] <lool> Oh you updated it 40 minutes ago
[16:37] <lool> nm
[16:38] <davidbarth> or in the case of xsplash, we keep one open as a tester reported a remaining glitch
[16:38] <davidbarth> lool: sure, looking into that
[16:38] <davidbarth> lool: i commented on a similar bug, there have been quite a few releases of maximus since
[16:39] <davidbarth> lool: so i'd like to get feedback from the reporter, testing the latest version
[16:39] <lool> Right; I found that one had a bunch of dups so was worth flagging
[16:39] <davidbarth> lool: ok
[16:39] <lool> davidbarth: Yup, it's looking good now, thanks
[16:39] <davidbarth> apart from that
[16:40] <davidbarth> indicator-session was changed to display a power icon when the user is not "online" (in IM terms)
[16:40] <lool> You poked ubuntu-doc?
[16:40] <davidbarth> that helps with the discovarbility (er..) of the feature
[16:40] <davidbarth> flagged as a high priority item
[16:40] <davidbarth> lool: nope, need to do that
[16:41] <slangasek> davidbarth: wrt 413348 being kept open, note that if the Ubuntu package task is closed, it's not really on the release team's radar... I'm not sure whether that bug /should/ be reopened, but if you think it should, please open the package task as well
[16:41] <davidbarth> there is still another patch in the upload queue to work on an apparent icon theme issue
[16:43] <davidbarth> slangasek: hmm, i'll reopen it to let it be visible
[16:44] <slangasek> ok, thanks
[16:44] <slangasek> anything else for DX?
[16:44] <davidbarth> that's it for DX. questions?
[16:44] <lool> there's that theme bug
[16:44] <lool> Which I wanted to cover and we pushed on you this morning
[16:44] <rickspencer3> davidbarth, is the power icon theme done?
[16:44] <davidbarth> lool: correct, unr
[16:44] <davidbarth> lool: should we see that later?
[16:44] <lool> bug #444766
[16:45] <lool> davidbarth: sure, I'm next I think
[16:45] <davidbarth> rickspencer3: yes it is, ie we display the power icon as recommended
[16:45]  * lool thinks of creating an ubottu loop
[16:45] <davidbarth> rickspencer3: but ted and kenvandine noticed a theme error related to it; so we're keeping the light on on this one
[16:46] <davidbarth> rickspencer3: but the slight logic change is in
[16:46] <rickspencer3> davidbarth, has the design team confirmed that it is displaying the intended behavior? (aside from the theme bug)
[16:46] <davidbarth> rickspencer3: along with the fix to not trigger the user im client by default during the session startup
[16:46] <davidbarth> rickspencer3: i asked them to approve the changes documented as part of the code merge
[16:47] <rickspencer3> davidbarth, ok, but if they haven't seen it actually working, I am concerned that it is not "closed"
[16:47] <rickspencer3> I'll ping them and make sure they sign off
[16:47] <davidbarth> rickspencer3: was: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ted/indicator-session/confused-icon/+merge/13027
[16:48] <rickspencer3> davidbarth, right, but code merge review != observed behavior
[16:48] <rickspencer3> (that's it, I'm done asking :) )
[16:48] <davidbarth> rickspencer3: right
[16:48] <slangasek> moving on?
[16:48] <rickspencer3> slangasek, right
[16:49] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
[16:49] <lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:49] <rickspencer3> movin' along  ... ;)
[16:49] <lool> Here's an overview of overall status (slightly more details this week):
[16:49] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
[16:49] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:49] <lool> * armel: toolchain is fixed but didn't fix oo.o; other issues were discovered; w
[16:49] <lool> ill push workaround (jaunty version) for oo.o and rebuild some packages; also need to work on the FTBFS list more
[16:49] <lool> * armel+dove: status is good, even if installation experience is not ideal; we need to improve install documentation, and NCommander is working on a partman-uboot to prevent unbootable configurations in manual partitioning
[16:49] <lool> * armel+imx51: kernel making rapid progress but couple of high profile issues still open; otherwise ok
[16:49] <lool> * UNR: good shape but would like to unblock #444766
[16:49] <lool> * moblin: good shape for what it is, we'll continue efforts towards merges and fixing top bugs
[16:50] <lool> Concerning the approaching kernel freeze, I think the focus should be on the fsl-imx51 kernel and its bugs
[16:51] <slangasek> how are we able to ship the jaunty .so?  Is this duplication of OOo source, or of toolchain source?
[16:51] <lool> It's uuencoded AFAIK
[16:51] <lool> The source is in ... jaunty
[16:51] <lool> *cough*
[16:52] <lool> I'm not a fan either, and the real broken binary is on the side so that we can continue working on fixing it
[16:52] <slangasek> someone should make sure that's even legal to ship, let alone proper
[16:53] <lool> Ok; action me
[16:53] <slangasek> [ACTION] lool to confirm that shipping jaunty OOo .so w/o source is legal
[16:53] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to confirm that shipping jaunty OOo .so w/o source is legal
[16:54] <lool> So perhaps I should cover LP #424891 quickly
[16:54] <lool> It was an issue in Dust; text was not visible (see the screenshots in the dup); fix was committed upstream today
[16:55] <lool> I assigned myself and will package the fix next week when I locate it
[16:56] <slangasek> ok, great
[16:56] <lool> davidbarth: thanks btw
[16:57] <davidbarth> lool: np; the font issue should be ok now
[16:57] <slangasek> wrt kernel freeze, I see a lot of bugs marked "needs upload" - the kernel freeze is a *freeze*, is an arm upload planned that will allow these to be confirmed in the archive before the drop-dead date?
[16:58] <lool> Perhaps something the kernel team can comment on
[16:58] <slangasek> ok
[16:58] <lool> apw: w00t
[16:58] <slangasek> anything else on mobile?
[16:58] <lool> apw: -mx51 upload in the works?
[16:58]  * ogra would hope so
[16:59] <apw> the arm branches are waiting on a respin of the master kernel which i am hoping to see either today or first thing next week
[16:59] <apw> as there are some pending AppArmour updates in there we want in the arm branches too
[16:59] <lool> AppArmour  :-)
[17:00] <lool> apw: thanks for the update
[17:00] <kees> AppArmor(tm)(R)
[17:00] <lool> slangasek: Note that most fixes were confirmed as fixing thebugs though
[17:00] <slangasek> lool: alright
[17:00] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
[17:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
[17:00] <ogra> yeah, kudos to the kernel team for the big work on imx51
[17:01] <ogra> that was some awesome progress last week
[17:01] <slangasek> apw: so, what else is new? :)
[17:01] <rtg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[17:01] <pitti> and for fixing dell killswitch and intel drm loading \o/
[17:01] <rtg> slangasek, I'm planning on an upload this afternoon, should be nearly the last one.
[17:01] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[17:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[17:01] <slangasek> rtg: ok
[17:01] <rtg> _not_ an ABI bumper
[17:02] <slangasek> does it fix my rfkill problem? :)
[17:02] <rtg> slangasek, the one in the archive should.
[17:02] <rtg> do let me know if not.
[17:03] <slangasek> hrm, the bug state didn't reflect that at all, I had no idea you were expecting testing from me
[17:03] <rtg> slangasek, which bug? It should be 'fix released'
[17:03] <slangasek> rtg: bug #395358, which is on the list
[17:03] <apw> i think we have dell and thinkpad rfkill mised herre
[17:03] <apw> mixed
[17:04] <rtg> slangasek, ah, that one. perhaps not. I was focusing on Dell.
[17:05] <rtg> slangasek, I'll have apw or smb take a look.
[17:05] <slangasek> ok, thanks
[17:05] <rtg> I'm looking at backporting upstream audio. blech!
[17:06] <slangasek> status on bug #423767 in your report says "fix released", but there's still an open karmic task for linux-firmware saying there's a firmware conflict?
[17:06] <rtg> slangasek, thats about it from me.
[17:06] <slangasek> (so hopefully that's still on the radar)
[17:06] <rtg> slangasek, yeah, I've been putting off the firmware fixes. I'll get to them in time
[17:06] <slangasek> ok
[17:07] <apw> linux-firmware task is still open
[17:07] <lool> That bug seemed to be blocked on ralink input whic scared me
[17:08] <lool> It the risk is regressing the other hardware, perhaps we can ask for testers with that hardware to try a test package with the new fw?
[17:09] <slangasek> rtg: mm, and you say bug #445588 is fixed "for all main branches and in the archive", but I see linux-ec2 still has a task open
[17:09] <rtg> slangasek, fix committed, just needs upload
[17:10] <rtg> I'll get it done today.
[17:10] <slangasek> ok
[17:11] <slangasek> lool: or just ship different firmware on armel than on other archs?
[17:11] <lool> Oh tha tworks
[17:11] <slangasek> (that doesn't leave us stranded if no one is in a position to regression test)
[17:11] <slangasek> it does mean converting the package from arch: all to arch: any
[17:12] <slangasek> rtg, apw: ^ would that be a reasonable fix for bug #423767?
[17:12] <lool> We could also patch the relevant armel driver to look for another filename this cycle
[17:12] <rtg> lool, this isn't an on-board part, is it?
[17:12] <lool> rtg: No; it's an add on mini PCI
[17:12] <lool> It's the one in the lange board you have
[17:12] <rtg> lool, why wouldn't we use the same firmware as the rest of the distro?
[17:13] <lool> rtg: It seems we're blocked on updating the firmware because we're not sure the new ones workon other hardware
[17:13] <rtg> lool, I have a pegatron which is lange5.1, right?
[17:13] <lool> Yes
[17:13] <lool> Should be a good test case for this bug
[17:13] <rtg> and there is a wireless gizmo in it?
[17:13] <lool> Yes
[17:14] <lool> (Or perhaps you miss it if it was removed but I dont think so?)
[17:14] <rtg> its runnign Jaunty. we have no Karmic kernel for it
[17:14] <lool> Speaking of which
[17:14] <lool> Did you receive a set of patches for lange support which you consider for merging?
[17:14] <rtg> ain't gonna happen by release
[17:14] <lool> Okay
[17:15] <rtg> plus, I don't think I've ever seen a patch set, unless amit has
[17:15] <lool> (I'd still love to know whether you got them but that's not release meeting material anymore then)
[17:15] <lool> Ok
[17:15] <lool> let's bring it up out of band
[17:15] <rtg> ack
[17:16] <rtg> slangasek, we're done monopolizing tour channel
[17:16] <rtg> your*
[17:16] <slangasek> rtg: ok, thanks for the updates :)
[17:16] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
[17:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
[17:16] <slangasek> ttx: hi
[17:17] <ttx> o/
[17:17] <ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus was recently updated
[17:17] <ttx> with RC bugs and karmic targets of opportunity
[17:17] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:18] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:18] <ttx> Looking at the RC bugs...
[17:18] <ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/432154
[17:18] <slangasek> ttx: that page doesn't seem to actually tell the status of any of the bugs, it just lists assignments
[17:19] <ttx> I'm giving status now, with opportunity for assignee to comment
[17:19] <ttx> kirkland is a little blocked on this one
[17:19] <ttx> since upstream qemu-kvm and upstream eucalyptus have different views on the fix
[17:19] <kirkland> ttx: i have opened a discussion with upstream
[17:20] <kirkland> ttx: but I see no practical solution happening before release, at this point
[17:20] <ttx> hm
[17:21] <ttx> kirkland: that prevents any attachment of EBS volumes ?
[17:21] <kirkland> ttx: as long as these volumes are scsi, yes
[17:21] <kirkland> ttx: note that virtio would work
[17:21] <kirkland> ttx: but eucalyptus hates on virtio
[17:22] <slangasek> is that something we should continue to track for a post-release update?
[17:22] <ttx> slangasek: maybe eucalyptus can be convinced to change their position on virtio
[17:22] <ttx> kirkland: attaching /dev/vda is better than not attaching anything
[17:23] <mdz> kirkland: is there no chance of isolating and fixing the KVM bug?
[17:23] <mdz> this did work in 9.04, no?
[17:23] <kirkland> ttx: i agree, wholeheartedly, particularly when upstream virt experts are saying this is the way forward
[17:23] <kirkland> mdz: it was an accident that it worked
[17:23] <mdz> it seems that virtio would be far better than nothing.  the only drawback is that it uses a different  device naming scheme, no?
[17:23] <kirkland> mdz: and it didn't work reliably
[17:24] <ttx> mdz: and eucalyptoids hate it for some reason
[17:24] <kirkland> mdz: right, different naming scheme is eucalyptus objection, breaking ec2 images, perhaps, running in euc
[17:24] <kirkland> uec
[17:24] <mdz> ttx: their stated reason for preferring scsi was as I have said: the device name
[17:24] <kirkland> mdz: ttx: they don't "hate" it
[17:24] <mdz> and not "hating"
[17:24] <kirkland> right, it's all about the predictability of "sd*"
[17:25] <mdz> kirkland: we could symlink sdX -> vdY easily enough, no?
[17:25] <kirkland> images that use UUID for disks/partitions should not be affected
[17:25] <mdz> kirkland: or even change the udev rule so that virtio devices get named sd*
[17:25] <kirkland> they mentioned older CentOS (etc) images as not supporting UUID
[17:25] <ttx> kirkland: you said "<kirkland> ttx: but eucalyptus hates on virtio" not me :)
[17:25] <mdz> we shouldn't choose the underlying implementation based on the name, when the name is easily changed
[17:25] <kirkland> ttx: sorry, that was slang
[17:26] <kirkland> mdz: the problem is that we don't have visibility into all guests
[17:26] <kirkland> mdz: we can change the behavior or ubuntu guests
[17:26] <mdz> good point
[17:26] <kirkland> mdz: but not fedora, centos, etc guests
[17:26] <kirkland> this is a pickle
[17:26] <mdz> I propose that we put virtio in place now, so that we have *something*
[17:26] <ttx> mdz: +1
[17:26] <kirkland> mdz: ttx: i'll take this up with Dan today
[17:27] <ttx> ok, next bug ?
[17:27] <ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/446023
[17:27] <slangasek> [ACTION] kirkland to discuss virtio for uec with Dan today (Bug:432154)
[17:27] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to discuss virtio for uec with Dan today (Bug:432154)
[17:27] <ttx> kirkland / cjwatson ^
[17:27] <cjwatson> I have seen this, but have been completely swamped
[17:28] <cjwatson> and I still can't say I understand why the configuration for DHCP doesn't need to change as well
[17:28] <cjwatson> but I can make the change - but probably not before Monday, now
[17:28] <ttx> ok
[17:29] <ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/434723
[17:29] <ttx> zul ^
[17:29] <kirkland> cjwatson: drop a description of what is to be changed, colin, and i'll try to have a look at it today
[17:29] <cjwatson> kirkland: you know as well as I, it's just in debian/eucalyptus-udeb.finish-install
[17:29] <zul> the testsuite has been enabled but it fails on the buildds because it timesout the buildds i tried the newer version and the same result happens I dont have a work around yet
[17:29] <kirkland> cjwatson: okay, i'll take a crack at it
[17:29] <cjwatson> I haven't got to the point of working out what needs to be changed there, or I'd have done it ... :-)
[17:29] <cjwatson> sorry
[17:30] <slangasek> ttx: please note that it's completely not scalable to have you /requesting/ status from assignees of all bugs individually during the meeting; we still have three other reports to hear and are already at time
[17:30] <kirkland> cjwatson: i was worried you'd barf at what i had
[17:30] <kirkland> cjwatson: as it was a little fragile
[17:30] <ttx> slangasek: ok
[17:30] <cjwatson> kirkland: I can probably review a patch quicker than I can create one
[17:30] <ttx> i'l give quickstatus
[17:30] <kirkland> cjwatson: fair enough
[17:30] <zul> ttx: the testsuite has been enabled but it fails on the buildds because it timesout the buildds i tried the newer version and the same result happens I dont have a work around yet
[17:30] <ttx> zul: ok
[17:31] <slangasek> ttx: thanks - and if more detailed reporting is needed, email after would be better
[17:31] <ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/446841
[17:31] <zul> ttx: of course other than disabling the testsuite
[17:31] <ttx> We have an issue here, niemeyer must look into it
[17:31] <ttx> that's a relatively recent issue.
[17:31] <ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/440757
[17:31] <ttx> and
[17:32] <ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/444605
[17:32] <ttx> are in good progress and on track
[17:32] <ttx> The last two are Java-related FTBFS that I'll fix soon
[17:32] <slangasek> ok, good
[17:33] <slangasek> sounds like we're on track overall, then
[17:33] <slangasek> mdz also asked for us to cover the status of eucalyptus testing here
[17:33] <mdz> marjo: jono: can you give us a quick update and if there are any issues, we can resolve them
[17:33]  * pitti has to leave now, sorry
[17:33] <slangasek> I saw a bit of email going on parallel to the meeting; is a status report there available?
[17:34] <jono> sure
[17:34] <slangasek> pitti: thanks, g'night
[17:34] <mdz> I just need to know if testing is on track
[17:34] <jono> so Jorge has drafted a call for testing, Ara has give it the +1 and so has kirkland
[17:34] <jono> I am just drafting the final announce and will post to mailing lists, planet, the fridge and the Eucalyptus Forums
[17:34] <mdz> background: we're running very close to the wire with eucalyptus and have asked for a special testing program to supplement what we've been able to test so far
[17:34] <mdz> jono: when will it launch?
[17:34] <jono> it should go out after my call with you
[17:34] <jono> next few hours
[17:35] <marjo> mdz: and ara will follow up with her own posts
[17:35] <jono> mdz, this was the soonest we could do as we agreed to this call for testing after Ara had finished for the day yesterday
[17:38] <mdz> slangasek: ok
[17:38] <slangasek> anything else for server?
[17:38] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
[17:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
[17:38] <kees> hi!  Our current status: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:38] <kees> open and being worked on by TreSys: bug 434084 (SELinux busted due to boot-time changes).
[17:38] <kees> open and being worked on by myself and jjohansen: bug 446524 (profile-building tool regression due to kernel logging improvements).
[17:38] <kees> we're closing more RC bugs than we're getting, so things seem to be settling pretty well -- that is all from us.
[17:38] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:38] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:39] <slangasek> alright, thanks
[17:39] <slangasek> any questions for security?
[17:39] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
[17:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
[17:39] <slangasek> cjwatson: hi
[17:39] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Karmic/ReleaseStatus
[17:39] <cjwatson> Boot experience substantially cleaned up this week by restoring usplash across the board, and fixing where init script output goes. Enabling usplash everywhere is considered temporary for Karmic; Lucid will be more subtle about it.
[17:39] <cjwatson> Wubi's stability is still an issue of serious concern; either bits just seem to not be hitting disk or we get random hangs, and there's no indication in the logs about why. davmor2 has tested the ntfs-3g change to make syncio imply sync. I think we've found one definite installer bug here, but in case that still doesn't resolve the stability, we'd appreciate it if somebody from the kernel team could have a look.
[17:40] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html is getting gradually healthier for main, but universe is still an area of considerable concern (I know MOTU agree).
[17:40] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html is getting gradually healthier for main, but universe is still an area of considerable concern (I know MOTU agree).
[17:40] <cjwatson> LaMont is running a more up-to-date build test that's two-pass (uses its own output), and is filing bugs at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=karmic-autotest; please contribute to this if you ha
[17:40] <cjwatson> ve any spare cycles. Many of these bugs are quite easy to fix so it's a good way to make a serious dent.
[17:40] <cjwatson> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=karmic-autotest
[17:40] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=karmic-autotest
[17:42] <slangasek> cjwatson: davmor2 has tested syncio->sync, and it didn't fix it?
[17:42] <mdz> cjwatson: that is a pretty long list; when was the most recent build test before this one?
[17:42] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Karmic/ReleaseStatus
[17:42] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Karmic/ReleaseStatus
[17:42] <davmor2> slangasek: no it hung
[17:43] <slangasek> davmor2: ok
[17:43] <cjwatson> mdz: while I'm not sure of the answer to that offhand, the problem is not that we haven't been running build tests, but that we haven't been fixing things from them at a reasonable rate (IMO)
[17:43] <mdz> cjwatson: almost all of those bugs are 44xxxx, i.e. just filed recently
[17:44] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[17:44] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[17:44] <slangasek> (oops, other URL 404s)
[17:44] <cjwatson> mdz: the previous one was that recorded in http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html, and we were asking people to track things there rather than arranging to file bugs. I don't think that worked very well and we need to automate the bug filing in future.
[17:44] <mdz> ah
[17:44] <mdz> agreed
[17:45] <cjwatson> although *personally* I've found wgrant's index quite convenient, and better than anything comparable for the tests lamont's been runining
[17:45] <cjwatson> running
[17:45] <cjwatson> so swings and roundabouts
[17:47] <cjwatson> slangasek: to be clear, davmor2's test did not reach the point that I was expecting syncio->sync to fix
[17:47] <slangasek> cjwatson: right
[17:47] <slangasek> anything else on foundations, then?
[17:48] <slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
[17:48] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
[17:48] <slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
[17:48]  * sistpoty|work waves
[17:48] <slangasek> ScottK, sistpoty|work: and hi
[17:48] <sistpoty|work> main issue is still FTBFS, I guess...
[17:49] <ScottK> Yep
[17:49] <ScottK> That and we are getting to the point where NBS is a bit sporting too
[17:49] <ScottK> Maven is going to be a mess whatever we do.
[17:49] <sistpoty|work> *nod*
[17:49] <ScottK> I think it's best to press forward and let lamont and doko__ sort it out as best they can.
[17:50] <sistpoty|work> and ScottK got quite good at whipping me to fix FTBFS (even at work!) :P
[17:50] <ScottK> Those are the major points.
[17:51] <ScottK> Any questions?
[17:51] <slangasek> none here; anyone else?
[17:51] <cjwatson> NBS wasn't *too* long when I last checked
[17:51] <cjwatson> longer than I'd like, obviouslyl
[17:52] <ScottK> It's not horrible, but in conjunction with FTBFS, there's a lot to do.
[17:52] <slangasek> agreed
[17:53] <slangasek> the call for help on FTBFSes a few weeks back generated some interest; should we have another call, or announce in different forums or anything?  Or do we just keep moving forward?
[17:54] <ScottK> I think another call would be good.
[17:54] <ScottK> We seem to have lost some of the momentum again
[17:54] <sistpoty|work> I wouldn't know to which other forums we could try, but I second to have another call
[17:55] <slangasek> who'd like to take that action?
[17:55] <ScottK> Maybe sistpoty|work could do another training session.
[17:55]  * ScottK is getting ready to leave town for the weekend, so looks at sistpoty|work.
[17:55] <sistpoty|work> hmpf, only got this evening to for it, so that would be unannounced again
[17:55] <sistpoty|work> sure thing, I'll also draft another call
[17:55] <slangasek> [ACTION] sistpoty|work to draft another call for help w/ FTBFS
[17:56] <MootBot> ACTION received:  sistpoty|work to draft another call for help w/ FTBFS
[17:56] <slangasek> sistpoty|work: thanks :)
[17:56] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[17:56] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[17:56] <slangasek> anything else that needs to be discussed?
[17:56] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[17:57] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:56.
[17:57] <slangasek> thanks, all