[00:01] <fta> yes
[01:35] <LLStarks> hey asac. sup.
[01:35] <LLStarks> did you want to me to do anything after compiling and dpkg'ing?
[01:37] <asac> LLStarks: test
[01:37] <asac> if the search works again
[01:38] <LLStarks> i can't force the bug to manifest
[01:38] <LLStarks> before or now
[01:38] <LLStarks> it just happens.
[01:38] <LLStarks> haven't seen it happen since installing the packages
[01:49] <LLStarks> asac, it seems fixed though.
[02:01] <asac> hmm
[02:02] <asac> LLStarks: can you push that build to a ppa ;)?
[02:02] <LLStarks> how?
[02:02] <asac> if you have a gpg key ... go to changelog... append ~ppa1 to the version (after ...ubuntuX)
[02:02] <asac> run debuild -S
[02:02] <asac> and then follow instruction son your personal ppa page
[02:02] <asac> thats just one command
[02:02] <asac> err use
[02:02] <LLStarks> append ppa1 to what?
[02:02] <asac> debuild -S -kYOURGPGKEYID
[02:02] <asac> LLStarks: in changelog there is a version on top
[02:03] <asac> that ends with -0ubuntuX or something
[02:03] <asac> just append "~ppa1" (with the tilde)
[02:03] <LLStarks> changelog in debian?
[02:03] <asac> yes
[02:03] <asac> debian/changelog
[02:03] <asac> sorry
[02:03] <asac> LLStarks: actually if you are using a karmic build you can just append ".ppa1" ;)
[02:03] <LLStarks> what files are appended with ppa1?
[02:24] <LLStarks> asac, do i need the orig file for dput?
[02:27] <LLStarks> nevermind
[02:27] <LLStarks> https://edge.launchpad.net/~llstarks/+archive/ppa
[02:32] <asac> good
[02:32] <asac> i will ask someone to test with that tomorrow. thanks
[03:12] <LLStarks> asac, build is done.
[03:15] <asac> LLStarks: dpkg -L | grep sqlite
[03:16] <asac> has a libsqlite3.so hit in xulrunner dir, right?
[03:16] <LLStarks> dpkg-query: --listfiles needs at least one package name argument
[03:16] <asac> dpkg -L xulrunner-1.9.1 ...
[03:16] <LLStarks> ge name argument
 dpkg -L xulrunner-1.9.1 ...
[03:16] <LLStarks> oops
[03:16] <LLStarks> eric@kingfisher:~$ dpkg -L xulrunner-1.9.1 | grep sqlite
[03:16] <LLStarks> /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.1.3/libsqlite3.so
[03:16] <LLStarks> /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.1.3/libsqlite3.so.0
[03:17] <asac> ls -l /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.1.3/libsqlite3.so*
[03:21] <LLStarks> eric@kingfisher:~$ ls -l /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.1.3/libsqlite3.so*
[03:21] <LLStarks> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 487440 2009-10-08 15:00 /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.1.3/libsqlite3.so
[03:21] <LLStarks> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root     13 2009-10-08 15:05 /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.1.3/libsqlite3.so.0 -> libsqlite3.so
[03:21] <asac> LLStarks: ok.
[03:21] <asac> strace -f -eopen firefox 2>&1 | grep libsqlite ;)
[03:21] <asac> without ;)
[03:22] <LLStarks> -3-
[03:22] <asac> actually it hsould be fine
[03:22] <asac> thx :)
[03:22] <asac> you should see that it opens the libsqlite from above
[03:22] <asac> and not the one in /usr/lib/
[03:22] <LLStarks> open("/usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.1.3/libsqlite3.so", O_RDONLY) = 4
[03:22] <asac> yep
[03:22] <asac> ok thx
[03:22] <asac> i will get some tests on that
[03:22] <asac> what was the bug id again?
[03:22] <LLStarks> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/firefox/+bug/438868
[03:23] <asac> LLStarks: ok. maybe try if its reawlly better. as you said that it didnt happen 100% of time
[03:23] <asac> i will see if it helps for someone else who reported something else wierd
[03:23] <asac> good night
[03:24] <LLStarks> night
[05:01] <LLStarks> asac. damn, the bug isn't fixed.
[08:05] <|eagles0513875|> morning yall
[10:19] <asac> LLStarks: ok great. thanks for confirming. that makes me feel better
[10:21] <|eagles0513875|> how goes it asac
[10:27] <asac> it could be better ;)
[10:27]  * asac still didnt have any coffee yet.
[10:27]  * asac goes and brews some
[10:36]  * |eagles0513875| makes asac a pot of coffee
[10:55] <|eagles0513875|> hey asac i have a question not realted to mozilla and you dont have to answer if it will bring the channel offtopic
[10:55] <|eagles0513875|> but how do i change what default programs come wiht live cd
[10:56] <asac> not sure what you mean. users can configure it for the session
[10:56] <asac> on livecd its probably some package ;)
[10:56] <asac> i can check that for you at some point ... but not now ;)
[10:57] <|eagles0513875|> ok i cant right now im just gathering a list of sites to where i can get the source code for relevant programs
[11:25] <av`> asac, is fine to have max_version 3.5.*
[11:26] <av`> for an extension now?
[11:26] <av`> or do you want more?
[11:27] <asac> av`: if the upstream extension says 3.5 as max we dont want to open it up for newer firefox versions
[11:27] <asac> unless we know pretty damn well what we are doing
[11:27] <asac> (we usually dont know that much about random extensions)
[11:27] <av`> asac, about speeddial, there is a new release (0.9.1) and we are pretty outdated with it
[11:28] <av`> asac, do you think is sane to hack max version in a package that had 3.0?
[11:29] <gnomefreak> asac: you didnt do everything to bindwood? it looks like apparmor is the only fix you did
[11:29] <asac> gnomefreak: sorry?
[11:29] <asac> gnomefreak: i only uploaded the bug fix
[11:30] <asac> want to the extension review independent from that
[11:30] <asac> av`: are you asking if we can get a new upstream into ubuntu?
[11:30] <gnomefreak> asac: yeah the work for m-d and stuff you didnt do
[11:30] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[11:30] <av`> asac, nope, we are on FF, so it's hard for it
[11:30] <asac> av`: if the current has maxversion 3.0 and the new upstream is compatible with 3.5, we can get that in
[11:30] <asac> av`: no. its fine
[11:30] <asac> i can grant ffe for extensions
[11:30] <av`> asac, great then
[11:31] <av`> asac, gonna give you bug report in a sec
[11:31] <asac> so if speeddial doesnt work with 3.5 its a safe bet. just open a bug and i will sign it off
[11:31] <asac> thx
[11:31] <gnomefreak> simple patch for that. but new version should wait. or push to sid than sync it for Lucid?
[11:31] <asac> gnomefreak: right. want to do all in one batch
[11:31] <asac> like yeseterday ;)
[11:31] <asac> so most likely during weekend
[11:31] <asac> have to do something to ubufox today still ;)
[11:31]  * gnomefreak didnt know what you did with extensions
[11:33] <gnomefreak> asac: did you get around to firegpg just the clean rules for FireGPGCall or should i have bdrung_ look at it so i can do everything else include update it and push to sid
[11:35] <av`> asac, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/speeddial/+bug/430155
[11:35] <av`> asac, it's assigned to my student, I dunno if he gonna make it : /
[11:35] <av`> asac, it's too hard for him at this time
[11:36] <gnomefreak> we have a wiki that explains how to do it. fairly simple but i had run into a couple of issues with it, so i need to try another to figure out if its me or wiki :(
[11:38] <asac> av`: confirmed. asked you to helpout in case he doesnt get it dnoe till sunday
[11:38] <av`> asac, ok
[11:39] <av`> thanks :)
[11:39] <asac> av`: these kind of occassions are always good to check if our documentation is good enough
[11:39] <asac> e.g. is it easy to undersatnd how to do a new upstream release
[11:40] <asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Extensions/Packaging?action=show&redirect=MozillaTeam%2FFirefox3Extensions%2FPackaging
[11:40] <av`> asac, true, but I told him to check the wiki then do the update and he missed quite everything : /
[11:40] <asac> so if he has questions take notes so we can check if those questions/issues came up because of poor docs
[11:40] <asac> hmm. i only see a debdiff
[11:40] <asac> the page clearly speaks abuot bzr branches
[11:40] <asac> Preparing an update
[11:41] <asac> thx
[11:43] <av`> asac, I have done the update already ;)
[11:44] <av`> just want him to do it
[11:44] <av`> if he is unable, I gonna upload everything myself
[11:46] <asac> kk
[11:46] <asac> thx
[11:47] <asac> av`: good to know that you have a student now ;)
[11:47] <av`> asac, eheh
[11:47] <av`> I hope he will be a fast-learner
[11:48] <|eagles0513875|> heheh whose student am i urs asac or anyones lol
[11:49] <gnomefreak> |eagles0513875|: extension work is fairly simple depending on what packag eyou are working on
[11:49] <av`> |eagles0513875|, the students are registered into the mentoring database
[11:49] <|eagles0513875|> ahhhh
[11:49] <gnomefreak> asac: can we do fun things with med-xpi? ;)
[11:49] <|eagles0513875|> hahah gnomefreak bug fixing isnt fun enough as is
[11:49]  * gnomefreak has a few ideaas
[11:50] <gnomefreak> |eagles0513875|: crashes are the hardest thing to do IMHO im still having issues reading them
[11:50] <|eagles0513875|> if you need someone to test or try and make stuff crash let me know
[11:52]  * gnomefreak really hates removing files from extensions.
[11:52]  * gnomefreak wonders if i should get |eagles0513875| to send emails to a couple of extensions :)
[11:53] <|eagles0513875|> gnomefreak: i cant right now
[11:53] <|eagles0513875|> im in lecutres but i mean ill do it when i get home
[11:54] <gnomefreak> ive been putting it off for a while so let me know when you are free and if i havent sent them i will give you an idea on what to write.
[11:59] <|eagles0513875|> ok
[11:59] <|eagles0513875|> hehe going to be multitasking which i think will = fail here
[12:05] <|eagles0513875|> gnomefreak: still need to finish up bindwood
[12:05] <|eagles0513875|> this afternoon lol
[12:07] <av`> asac, would you mind poking someone from -release to make ephy through NEW?
[12:07] <av`> asac, it's been 3-4 days now
[12:12] <av`> asac, anyway latest speeddial works fine on ffox3.5 ;)
[12:15] <gnomefreak> asac: we really need to work this updating extensions bullshit out. im getting real tired of bzr errors during push or merge
[12:15] <gnomefreak> asac: i will get with bdrung_ about it when he gets here and ready to work
[12:15] <asac> av`: oh ... sure
[12:15] <asac> av`: you should have told me 4 days ago ;)
[12:16] <asac> jdstrand: can you poke that please?
[12:16] <asac> jdstrand: ephy in bin NEW
[12:16] <asac> my preferred helper seb is not online ;)
[12:18] <|eagles0513875|> bbl guys
[12:22] <gnomefreak> we really need to add the paths to any extra license's that we remove
[12:33] <gnomefreak> asac: do you recall new version of compat?
[12:38] <asac> gnomefreak: i am a compat disbeliever ;)
[12:38] <asac> ask anyone except me
[12:38] <asac> i regularly dont update it
[12:38] <gnomefreak> :)
[12:38] <asac> bdrung certainly is a fan of it ;)
[12:38]  * gnomefreak can leave it alone for all i care too but i saw someone do it before but dont recall package nor version so im happy with 5
[12:39] <asac> i think its 7
[12:39] <asac> but that might be compoletely misleaded by debhelper version
[12:39] <gnomefreak> i was thinking that same thing thats why i asked :)
[12:40] <gnomefreak> but it has to be reviewded beofre it can get uploaded to Sid
[12:43] <gnomefreak> not sure why this is important add "Provides: ${xpi:Provides}" and "Enhances: ${xpi:Enhances}"
[12:57] <av`> asac, yea, just noticed it was NEW :)
[12:57] <av`> asac, let's hope it will be done somewhen today
[12:59]  * gnomefreak starting to get pissed now i dont want to re-add a header file. be back
[13:12] <asac> jdstrand: apparmor troubles ;) ... ubufox cannot access /usr/bin/ubuntu-bug
[13:12] <asac> maybe we can allow everyone to call ubuntu-bug?
[13:12] <asac> in apport package rather than making a firefox specific rule?
[13:23] <gnomefreak> it is during indexing but looks like a new feature
[13:25] <gnomefreak> i think i found the bug on it too
[13:26] <gnomefreak> asac: on tbird 3 did you try to turn off indexing? options>advanced>general
[13:28] <gnomefreak> i cant find an options menu
[13:31] <asac> good question
[13:31] <asac> i guess only in "Config editor ..." if at all
[13:31] <gnomefreak> asac: i asked on bug report
[13:33]  * gnomefreak gave up working for the day. i see why dr. said take time away :(
[13:33] <gnomefreak> updating my 2 ISO's and checking email and thats it for me
[13:53] <|eagles0513875|> hey guys im back
[13:55] <|eagles0513875|> asac: im back going to finish up bind wood this afternoon :)
[13:55] <|eagles0513875|> once i get my rump back upstairs
[14:57] <eagles0513875> asac:  im back if you need me for any testing
[15:04] <fta> asac, could you please merge micahg's work? (1h left)
[15:07] <asac> fta: yes.
[15:07] <asac> awefully busy, but doing that now
[15:10] <eagles0513875> asac: going to work on finishing up bindwood to get that merged so that i can begin work on next thing
[15:10] <eagles0513875> next extensions
[15:11] <eagles0513875> asac: has anythign changed on the wiki extension?
[15:15] <asac> darn. my local branch is still broken
[15:15] <asac> firefox-3.7.head
[15:21] <jdstrand> asac: re: ubuntu bug. for now just add to the profile:
[15:22] <jdstrand>   /usr/bin/apport-bug Ux,
[15:22] <jdstrand> asac: I'm on vacation until next Wednesday. I'll discuss putting it in an abstraction with the security team
[15:25] <asac> jdstrand: do firefox profile?
[15:25] <jdstrand> asac: yes please
[15:26] <asac> jdstrand: enjoy your vacation
[15:26] <jdstrand> thanks :)
[15:26] <asac> jdstrand: ill file a bug
[15:26] <asac> against ubuntu-bug and firefox-3.5/ubufox
[15:26] <asac> thx
[15:26] <jdstrand> asac: feel free to put it under the '# should maybe be in abstractions' comment
[15:27] <jdstrand> asac: well, actually, it should be against firefox-3.5 since it ships the profile, and apparmor so we can track getting it into an abstraction
[15:28] <asac> i will subscribe you and paste this converstaion
[15:28] <asac> now go away ;)
[15:28] <jdstrand> hehe
[15:29]  * jdstrand goes *poof*
[15:38] <asac> Nafallo: i you are not nice :/
[15:38] <asac> where is my food?
[15:39] <asac> mailnews.database.global.indexer.enabled
[15:39] <asac> fta: both should be merged and so on
[15:39] <asac> just firefox ... not xulrunner
[15:39] <asac> fdont th9ink there were xul changes thopugh
[15:54] <eagles0513875> im back
[16:08] <fta> back too
[16:08] <fta> i'm sick
[16:09] <fta> a virus, but not the flu, fortunately :P
[16:11] <[reed]> everybody is sick
[16:12] <[reed]> tons of people sick at school here
[16:12] <[reed]> I was sick earlier this week
[16:17] <fta> [reed], http://www.google.org/flutrends/intl/en_us/us/
[16:17] <[reed]> yeah, my state is "High"
[16:18] <fta> http://www.google.org/flutrends/intl/en_us/fr/
[16:18] <fta> mine is moderate
[16:19] <fta> asac, thx, let's see if it builds today
[16:20] <asac> i had the swine flue already
[16:20] <eagles0513875> im sick but its mostly sinuses
[16:20] <asac> nothing can kill me anymore ;)
[16:20] <fta> swine?
[16:20] <asac> at least the flue i had right after travelling was hard and i embargoed myself
[16:21] <asac> not sure. i like to believe that ;)
[16:21] <[reed]> didn't even let the gf visit you?
[16:21] <[reed]> ;)
[16:21] <asac> she refused to come :/
[16:21] <asac> thought i must die alone :(
[16:23] <fta> lol
[16:23] <asac> now its funny
[16:23] <asac> back then it wasnt ;)
[16:25] <mac_v> asac: so hadness committed the bluetooth-active fix? when can we expect the fix in Ubuntu? /me has to do some renaming ;)
[16:25]  * eagles0513875 starts walking to the looney bin
[16:27] <LLStarks> asac. using a built sqlite didn't fix the bug.
[16:28] <asac> kk
[16:30] <[reed]> ubuntu's system sqlite meets the min requirements?
[16:33] <LLStarks> doesn't matter. bug is present with either configuration.
[16:33] <[reed]> what's the bug?
[16:33] <asac> [reed]: yes
[16:33] <asac> we meet it
[16:33] <[reed]> asac: really? I'm very surprised
[16:33] <asac> we dont unpatch that
[16:33] <[reed]> k
[16:33] <asac> the comment about that in the bug was about rolling that into a stable release in a way that doesnt allow us to go other ways
[16:34] <[reed]> cause you would be very stupid to take any older sqlite version than what we require
[16:34] <[reed]> :)
[16:34] <asac> but i didnt want to put more time in discussing that because next time the same misunderstanding will be there again
[16:35] <asac> so basically patching configure in isnt the right way. thats a build time requirement
[16:35] <asac> and not a runtime requirment
[16:35] <asac> so its the wrong approach to begin with to force us using that
[16:35] <asac> the right approach and what everyone else does is to tell  us that there are serious bugs in the current sqlite
[16:35] <asac> so we can roll that as a well tested stable release update
[16:35] <asac> rather than rushing that through security
[16:36] <asac> and if mozilla tells us that its needed we would obviously check that ;)
[16:36] <asac> in this case it didnt matter, because we had no 3.5 browser anywhere
[16:37] <[reed]> we've found lots of bad sqlite bugs since we started using it
[16:37] <asac> sure
[16:37] <asac> thats not the point. my point was just: dont bump the build time requirement if you want to have a certain runtime
[16:38] <asac> anyway. that lead to my final decision to stop using xulrunner and system libs altogether from next cycle
[16:38] <[reed]> going to be some fat packages :)
[16:38] <asac> as its really putting gun right at our face to bump configure.in and then asking us for a trademark exception process to unpatch that
[16:39] <[reed]> sometimes there is a build-time requirement, though
[16:39] <asac> yeah. but we fought for system libs etc. for years. at some point its time to give up on that front
[16:39] <asac> [reed]: sometimes. but not in this case for sure
[16:40] <asac> so basically we ship nss/nspr because those maintainer properly talk to us long time before
[16:40] <asac> and the rest is in-source
[16:41] <asac> i think in the end its better for all sides ;)
[16:41] <[reed]> very well
[16:41] <asac> also we have to change our whole approach
[16:41] <[reed]> note that the next release needs new NSPR and new NSS
[16:41] <asac> going for major version upgrades as security updates etc.
[16:41] <[reed]> 3.5.4
[16:42]  * mconnor reads scrollback
[16:42] <LLStarks> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/firefox/+bug/438868
[16:43] <mconnor> asac: what's this about? sqlite upgrades?
[16:43] <asac> mconnor: not really. it was more like a process ... and that was the final trigger
[16:44] <[reed]> sad that just when Mozilla starts using xulrunner stubs for Fennec, ubuntu will stop doing it
[16:44] <[reed]> :(
[16:44] <asac> also we were asking for a stable sub API for mozjs
[16:44] <asac> and got good feedback from the js devs
[16:45] <asac> so basically we cannot let anything into our main archive now that uses mozjs
[16:45] <asac> but thats a different story ;)
[16:45] <[reed]> hah
[16:45] <asac> but the bug comments very well show whats up
[16:45] <asac> let me see if i can find it
[16:45] <[reed]> brb, changing locations
[16:46] <asac> i tried to get that done not because canonical wants that, but because it breaks my heart seeing innovative stuff that needs js
[16:46] <asac> not being able to get promoted
[16:46] <fta> asac, [reed], can't play any flash video /w trunk lately, the ui is there, but when i press play, nothing happens, not even the download
[16:47] <mconnor> asac: why wouldn't we change configure to require the new baseline we support?
[16:47] <asac> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=506890
[16:47] <asac> mconnor: thats a build requirement and you want runtime requirement
[16:47] <asac> mconnor: its a matter of how we distribute stuff
[16:48] <asac> so we can perfectly build the firefox against the current sqlite and ship the new sqlite as a well tested stable release update for instance
[16:48] <asac> instead of rushing that out through the security update channel
[16:50] <mconnor> unless it's a security-related upgrade
[16:50] <asac> obviously
[16:50] <asac> but even then the more distro-friendly approach would be to tell us that there is a security issue in sqlite
[16:51] <asac> so we can fix that individually in security ... and also tell us that you want us to ship the full new upstream version ... so we can put that through a stable release update
[16:51] <mconnor> I would hope you're finding out about that on your own
[16:51] <asac> sure
[16:51] <asac> but that only supports the idea of not bumping the minimum version in configure
[16:51] <asac> i see that its good to use that to communicate to us: hey, this is what we want
[16:51] <mconnor> the "full new upstream version" vs. cherry picking just the security fixes?
[16:52] <asac> but that could also be a mail or  a bug or some other regular mail exchange etc.
[16:53] <asac> mconnor: yes. to get the instant security vulnerability fixed. then also roll the full update you need through stable ... which needs longer testing as firefox is not the only consumer of that lib in the distro
[16:53] <asac> but security is a special case
[16:53] <asac> liek a real exploit security casee i mean
[16:53] <asac> if its a crash its a perfect example of what we ship through the stable release update process
[16:53] <mconnor> IMO, cherry-picking upstream patches is a fool's game, but we've had this argument before
[16:54] <mconnor> in, like, 2004
[16:54] <mconnor> :)
[16:55] <asac> we know the different approaches. all i am trying to say is that there are various ways to solve the problem. and bumping configure.in is not the best approach to achieve what we want.
[16:55] <asac> but even that is the specific case
[16:56] <mconnor> asac: so if we had a runtime check, but not a build time check, how does that differ, exactly?
[16:57] <mconnor> the sqlite upgrade would block the firefox release anyway
[16:57] <[reed]> runtime check wouldn't work when sdwilsh adds something that actually uses sqlite headers
[16:57] <asac> mconnor: that doesnt differ. i am saying that build time check isnt really what you want. and runtime check would even be worse. we need other ways to ensure that we distribute what is best
[16:58] <mconnor> how is not what we want?
[16:58] <mconnor> if we think a branch should have x.y.z as a minreq, that's what we want
[16:58] <mconnor> however we enforce that
[16:58] <mconnor> on stable branches, as far as I'm aware, we take upgrades for dataloss/crash/sec issues
[16:59] <mconnor> for sqlite, at least
[16:59] <[reed]> sdwilsh makes good decisions concerning upgrades
[16:59] <asac> nobody questions that
[17:00] <mconnor> but you want to be able to have a window where Ubuntu's builds still have issues that our release notes claim to be fixed
[17:00] <mconnor> so that you can do a "proper" sqlite upgrade
[17:01] <asac> there are just two ways. one is to talk ... one is to point a gun ;) requiring us to distribute a full sqlite update at the same time we upgrade firefox either means: a) we will rush sqlite in and risk regressions across the distro ... or b) firefox security update comes later
[17:01] <mconnor> or you have to stop using system sqlite
[17:01] <mconnor> for us
[17:01] <asac> right. and thats why i give up on all system libs effort now
[17:02] <asac> which is all i said
[17:02] <asac> in a bit bitter tone, but also noting that i think its what you want and its much easier for us
[17:03] <mconnor> it's a byproduct of what we want
[17:03] <mconnor> we don't really care how you ship quality builds that don't compromise on our stuff
[17:03] <mconnor> ;)
[17:04] <asac> yes. thats the attitude
[17:04] <mconnor> where our stuff == stability and security and perf
[17:04] <[reed]> we also have to deal with three very different platforms
[17:05] <kaddi> Hi I'm having a problem with thunderbird and was wondering if you could help. About 3 weeks ago thunderbird stopped opening links in mails. I have set thunderbird to the default mail-client and did add the network.app-handler.http to firefox, but that didn't help. Any other suggestions how to get my links to open again?
[17:05] <[reed]> which makes priorities different
[17:05] <[reed]> though, I constantly fight for Linux!
[17:05] <mconnor> it's nothing to do with priorities on that level
[17:05] <[reed]> sure, more talking about the multi-platforms
[17:05] <asac> right. but your attitude is mostly shaped for win and mac ... e.g. a world without distributors
[17:06] <mconnor> I don't actually think that's relevant here
[17:06] <asac> we all tried to work on that for years. but its never going to work. distributors are not perceived as someone shipping your stuff
[17:06] <mconnor> I really don't
[17:06] <asac> but leeching and wanting to freeride
[17:06] <asac> thats what i read https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=506890
[17:09] <mconnor> asac: you mean Brendan's comments, I'm sure?
[17:09] <asac> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=506890#c10
[17:09] <asac> shaver
[17:10] <asac> but not only that comment. the whole bug. my intentions were just: help lots of innovate webbased technologies
[17:10] <asac> by getting a reduced stable API that we can ship
[17:11] <mconnor> sure, and the response was "if you want to do this, great, but we don't have the time or resources to do this"
[17:12] <[reed]> fta: http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2009/10/sneak_peek_ai_fl_dw_canvas.html
[17:12] <[reed]> scroll the page
[17:12] <[reed]> using the scrollbar
[17:12] <[reed]> does the flash object do weird things?
[17:12] <[reed]> does for me
[17:12] <[reed]> using latest nightly
[17:13] <mconnor> asac: your intentions are fine, and there's nothing really preventing you from doing the work yourself, but Mozilla's JS team is basically running flat out to compete against V8/Squirrelfish/etc
[17:13] <asac> right i udnerstand the situation
[17:14] <asac> on the browser front you are fighting it
[17:14] <asac> but there is more than speed on other fronts.
[17:14] <mconnor> sure
[17:14] <asac> for instance: if you have a libmoz.js that is on CD
[17:14] <asac> because it rocks and is stable
[17:14] <asac> then it will be harder for other stuff to replace you
[17:14] <asac> same was for stable embedding api
[17:14] <mconnor> I don't think that matters
[17:14] <asac> where you had a monopoly
[17:14] <asac> and ran away screeming
[17:14] <mconnor> sure
[17:15] <asac> so now there is webkit which is good
[17:15] <[reed]> and now nobody uses our embedding api because it sucks ;)
[17:15] <mconnor> bully for them
[17:15] <asac> it might not be a paying off thing to have to deal with embedders issues
[17:15] <asac> but it gives you more than direct competition of speed
[17:15] <asac> and so on
[17:15] <mconnor> if we believed that the resource cost of having a fantastic embedding experience was beneficial to our goals, we'd do it
[17:15] <asac> its not really that i dont see the reasons and i agree
[17:15] <asac> to some degree
[17:16] <asac> just think there are better ways  :)
[17:16] <asac> not for firefox, but for the long term strategy of mozilla :)
[17:16] <fta> [reed], works fine (and the video works too, but it's slow as hell, 2 sec of video, 5 secs of dl)
[17:16] <[reed]> hmm
[17:17] <fta> but it's not the latest daily, lastest 2 or 3 were broken
[17:17] <mconnor> asac: do you really think embedding would move the needle enough to matter for the future of the Internet?
[17:17] <asac> mconnor:  yes. but it would have been relatively easy for you to keep the monopoly. so in case at some point you find out that its needed for your goals (which i think its likely) you have to do real competition from the grounds etrc.
[17:17] <asac> mconnor: i am not sure how the distribution model of the future will look like
[17:17] <mconnor> I honestly have zero belief that embedding matters
[17:17] <asac> but its likely enough imo to consider it important
[17:18] <asac> that it will be beneficial
[17:18] <mconnor> at least in the timeframe I can forecast
[17:18] <asac> sure. but in computer you cannot forcast even 2 years
[17:18] <mconnor> I disagree
[17:18] <mconnor> but
[17:18] <mconnor> even in the next 18 months
[17:19] <mconnor> I don't think mozjs helps us fight Chrome/Safari/IE9
[17:19] <asac> for ubuntu having some reasons to stay on CD besides firefox being the current most important app would definitly help
[17:19] <mconnor> CD?
[17:19] <asac> the default install
[17:19] <mconnor> well
[17:20] <mconnor> I think that's a strange value prop
[17:22] <mconnor> and I think a very distro-centric viewpoint
[17:22] <asac> well. thats obvious.
[17:22] <mconnor> if Firefox is the most important app for the next 18 months, embedding still doesn't matter ;)
[17:22] <asac> yes. but there will be times where its not clearly black and white
[17:23] <mconnor> maybe
[17:23] <mconnor> if that day comes, we'll deal with it then
[17:23] <[reed]> Chromium worries me
[17:23] <asac> thats a plan, but not really a strategy
[17:25] <mconnor> we're working on articulating the high-level strategy through 2010
[17:26] <mconnor> will be public once it's worth talking about
[17:27] <mconnor> bbiab
[17:27] <asac> ttyl
[17:28] <asac> have to finish this release thing anyway :/
[17:47] <mac_v> asac: the bluetooth icon? when will the upstream commit trickle into Ubuntu?
[17:47] <asac> mac_v: is it committed at all?
[17:47] <mac_v> yes
[17:48] <mac_v> asac: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=596564
[17:48] <asac> mac_v: so they committed the full thing?
[17:48] <mac_v> seems so
[17:48] <asac> not just the code patch?
[17:48] <asac> odd
[17:49] <mac_v> asac: lol , i though you convinced hadness ;)
[17:49] <mac_v> thought*
[17:51] <asac> mac_v: its bad to cherry pick the icons too
[17:51] <asac> i will see. maybe just taking the code changes
[17:51] <asac> verifying the it really falls back
[17:51] <asac> and then suggesting to backout the icon landings
[18:02] <bdrung_> i am back and can review later some extensions, if required
[18:09] <av`> asac, ephy accepted?
[18:29] <av`> yes, seems so
[18:29] <av`> I see the binaries now
[18:30] <asac> EDONTKNOW
[18:31] <asac> sems like it
[18:31] <asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+queue
[18:31] <av`> asac, yep, it's in
[18:31] <asac> !ia64
[18:31] <av`> asac, you know what? I hate buggers :)
[18:31] <asac> buggers?
[18:32] <av`> asac, I did the amule update and a guy that has an amule PPA told me to apply some of his changes to the official package
[18:32] <av`> asac, saying that one of the patches coming from debian wasnt right coz the code is no more there
[18:32] <av`> asac, and I pop up saying 'hey, if the code is no more there, why it applies fine?'
[18:33] <av`> this ppl is what I cal buggers
[18:33] <asac> hmm. ok
[18:33] <av`> makes developers losing their time with useless questions
[18:33] <asac> maybe he meant: "that code isnt used anymore" ?
[18:33] <asac> well
[18:33] <asac> he runs a ppa
[18:33] <asac> so he is on his road
[18:33] <asac> to become a developer ... be nice
[18:34] <av`> This text should be updated or removed because there is no longer these
[18:34] <av`> lines:
[18:34] <asac> at least as nice as you would have liked others to be when you started ;)
[18:34] <av`> this is what he said
[18:34] <asac> sure
[18:34] <asac> shit happens
[18:34] <asac> ;)
[18:34] <av`> yeah, but he argued and said me: 'And you can't see the changes in debian folder? (diff.gz file).... O_o'
[18:35] <av`> talking about his PPA
[18:35] <av`> you're learning? ok...but don't argue with me
[18:36] <asac> see. arguing is the best way to to learn. sometimes on the cost of others time
[18:36] <av`> asac, I try to be alwais nice to starters, that's why I have a student now
[18:36] <asac> often actually. but thats what a teacher opts in ;)
[18:36] <asac> good
[18:36] <av`> but I really love to have someone who wanna learn
[18:37] <av`> not argue with me
[18:37] <asac> really appreciated you helping fresh blood ...
[18:37] <av`> asac, have you ever heard me saying something to you like that 2-3 years ago?
[18:37] <av`> asac, never, alwais yes, you're right, let me fix
[18:38] <av`> asac, I just wanna sit here and relax when I do my works, not having someone who keeps bothering for something I did wrong on his eyes
[18:39] <av`> asac, he even set the bug back to incomplete :)
[18:59] <av`> asac, anyway let's pass through it, it may happen :)
[19:16] <asac> micahg: there?
[19:17] <micahg> yes
[19:17] <asac> micahg: so about ubufox not installed on livecd
[19:17] <asac> micahg: what were the symptoms?
[19:17] <asac> why do you think its not installed?
[19:17] <micahg> extension would not show up in browser
[19:17] <asac> hmm
[19:17] <micahg> I didn't check karmic beta
[19:17] <asac> you say it was not in tools -> addons -> extensions listed?
[19:18] <micahg> last one I checked was alpha 6
[19:18] <micahg> right, not listed in addons
[19:18] <asac> hmm.
[19:18] <asac> i have a usb-livecd running and its there
[19:18] <asac> working good
[19:18] <micahg> beta?
[19:18] <asac> minus plugin finder not finding anything ... but thats just database not good
[19:18] <asac> no .. the latest daily
[19:18] <asac> whatever that is
[19:18] <micahg> ok
[19:19] <asac> grabbed and iso ... used usb-creator-gtk
[19:19] <micahg> I'll d/l the beta over the weekend and see if I have the same issue
[19:19] <asac> that would be precious
[19:19] <asac> at best the same way you ddid before
[19:19] <asac> or wait .. let me check someone from qa team again
[19:22] <[reed]> fta / asac: does going to http://www.npr.org/digitalthinkin/stream.html make your memory usage and cpu load jump way up for firefox 3.7?
[19:23] <[reed]> asac: how do I update this flash?
[19:23] <[reed]>     File: /usr/lib/adobe-flashplugin/libflashplayer.so
[19:23] <[reed]>     Version:
[19:23] <[reed]>     Shockwave Flash 10.0 r32
[19:23] <[reed]> that's old
[19:24] <fta> [reed], jumped from 27%/27% to 61%/30%
[19:24] <[reed]> awesome
[19:25] <[reed]> oh
[19:25] <[reed]> apparently, that is the latest flash version
[19:25] <[reed]> You have version 10,0,32,18 installed
[19:25] <[reed]> hmm
[19:27] <fta> http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/a/adobe-flashplugin/
[19:28] <fta> it's the latest
[19:28] <fta> 30-Jul-2009
[19:29] <asac> [reed]: i would think whatever is in that partner archive is the latest released
[19:29] <asac> would be kind of grave if not and i instantly want to know that ;) (though its not my direct responsibility to run that )
[19:33] <asac> micahg: you ran i386 or amd64?
[19:36] <fta> [reed], mozilla 273310 is an old bug.. 2004
[19:36] <[reed]> yeah
[19:36] <[reed]> but I definitely just ran into that
[19:36] <[reed]> lots of gettimeofday()
[19:36] <[reed]> but it could just be a flash bug
[19:36] <[reed]> :(
[19:36] <[reed]> I hate Flash
[19:36]  * [reed] installs flashblock
[19:36] <micahg> asac: i386
[19:39] <[reed]> this is so much better already
[19:39] <[reed]> I'll begin to wonder how I ever lived without flashblock
[19:41] <asac> ok i am taking a break ;)
[19:44] <asac> micahg1: so no need to verify again. i have now 4 confirms about 32-bit
[19:44] <asac> none about amd64
[19:44] <asac> but only you saw it on 32-bit
[19:44] <asac> i hope thats enough
[19:44] <asac> i will let someone verify amd64 if possible
[19:46] <micahg> If I enable 64 bit vm's my computer slows down too much
[19:48] <asac> all fine
[19:48] <asac> got a amd64 confirm
[19:48] <asac> actually one was 64
[19:48] <asac> from the beginning
[19:48] <asac> i invalidated the bug
[19:49] <micahg> asac: confirm it's ok or not?
[19:50] <asac> i would think your time is better spend on other things ;)
[19:50] <asac> in case you do a general livecd test the next days maybe check again
[19:50] <micahg> ok
[19:59] <av`> asac, I'm updating libgnome-bluetooth for debian
[19:59] <av`> asac, I noticed the soname change
[19:59] <av`> asac, I guess I need to add some new symbols
[20:00] <micahg> asac: http://beltzner.ca/mike/2009/10/09/firefox-next-moving-faster/
[20:27] <fta> asac, still no icon in ff. didn't you say it was a theme bug fixed a few days ago?
[20:29] <asac> yes
[20:33] <av`> asac, how can I auto-generate a .symbols file?
[20:34] <av`> asac, I got a warning: debian/libgnome-bluetooth7/DEBIAN/symbols doesn't match completely debian/libgnome-bluetooth7.symbols
[20:34] <av`> and it fails
[20:34] <av`> asac, http://paste.debian.net/48654/
[20:35] <av`> asac, I'm leaving, leave me a message please :)
[22:32] <fta> [reed], what good does the old gettimeofday bug do if it's unconfirmed and obviously ignored by everyone?
[22:34] <fta> [reed], btw, even with flashblock,  ff jumps between 2% and 11% cpu every few seconds even when idle
[22:59] <av`> asac, found out, ty anyway