=== Saj0577_ is now known as Saj0577
faganmdke: you around?16:30
faganAnyone want to help for a minute, im trying to close a few bugs. Im starting with Bug #44209716:33
ubot4Launchpad bug 442097 in ubuntu-docs "IE6 in Windows document" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44209716:33
faganShould I make a section for IE6 and another for IE7 and 8?16:34
faganThe only difference is how to open the import/export favourites and the name of a few buttons16:35
faganI drafted up a version with a different section for IE7/8 but it looks a bit redundant because its very similar16:37
Rocket2DMnfagan, is that the mateiral in the "Web browser bookmarks" section?16:39
faganLet me check16:40
Rocket2DMnlists IE, Firefox, and Opera16:40
faganBut its out of date16:40
faganIts for IE616:41
Rocket2DMnI think it's probably easiest and more user friendly to just have 3 differnet subsections for the different IE versions16:41
faganWell IE7 and 8 are the same16:41
Rocket2DMnoh, ok, then just 2 sections16:42
fagan6 is the problem but people still use it16:42
Rocket2DMnmaybe include a line at the top to explain how to check which version they are using16:42
faganHmmm id just delete the IE6 stuff and just have IE7/816:44
Rocket2DMnThe material is already there for IE6, I don't see any reason to remove it, it is still a fairly common browser unfortunately16:44
Rocket2DMnif you were writing this from scratch, i might say don't bother with it, but again, the documentaiton is already there16:45
faganI wrote it up already with both but really they arent too different. Its just where to find it and instead of finish they changed it to export.16:46
faganIll just submit the patch with both16:47
pcutler|outfagan: I'd delete the IE6 stuff as it is no longer officially supported by Microsoft16:53
=== pcutler|out is now known as pcutler
faganpcutler: Actually microsoft said about a month ago they would support it till 201116:54
pcutlerdarn them  :/16:54
faganPissed most web devs off16:54
faganAny commiters around? I have a fix for a typo16:57
faganWould it be too late for a string freeze exception?16:58
fagangtg ill mail the list about it16:59
XiXaQsetting up networked printing was very, very difficult when following help.ubuntu.com. In the end, it proved to be really easy.17:30
XiXaQthe help seems to assume that Ubuntu is being used as a slave system in a Windows environment. It only mentions how to configure a client to use a printer when it's shared by a Windows Server.17:31
=== Zachk18 is now known as Sub_Zero
faganHmmm strange https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MultimediaApplications shouldnt players that play both music and video be considered media players?18:58
faganAnd banshee should be moved because it plays videos and music18:58
faganWhy is Flash mentioned there?18:59
faganVery strange19:00
faganmdke: *ping*19:01
mdkefagan: *pong*20:35
Zachk18i'm on the doc-contributors team on lp by the way20:57
mdkefagan: I'm not sure I agree - I think it's helpful to have a section for video20:57
Zachk18mdke, thank you!20:57
mdkefagan: I know it's slightly confusing that some players can do both, but that can still be noted, and most of them have a "default" function (totem = video, banshee = audio etc)20:58
faganmdke: But the problem I see with that is that they dont just do video.20:58
Zachk18most of them do20:58
faganBanshee does both20:58
Zachk18there are few that do both20:58
mdkefagan: why is that a problem?20:58
faganI just think to be politicly correct media players is better20:59
Zachk18media players will confuse people20:59
Zachk18i can assure you of that20:59
mdkefagan: we need to think about what the majority of the users will understand and look for, political correctness doesn't matter too much21:00
Saj0577_Zachk18: it would not as most other players are called media players take windows for an example so people are use to the terminology21:00
mdkeI think that distinguishing between applications whose main function is audio and video is still sensible at the moment21:00
mdkesome applications could certainly appear in more than one section21:01
faganI just thought it needed to be mentioned.21:01
Saj0577_what about just having a note saying some do both and have a page that lists the ones that do both?21:01
faganBanshee should at least get a mention as a video player21:01
mdkeI don't have a problem with mentioning banshee as a video player21:02
Zachk18so...i'm looking to get more active with the doc/wiki team21:02
Zachk18not that is what we're talking about but i figured i'd mention it21:03
mdkeZachk18: the great thing about the wiki is that it gives plenty of scope for jumping in and being active :)21:03
Zachk18mdke, well i've done some editing and i'm currently working on a blog with a friend and the udsf21:04
faganZachk18: check out https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/ too21:04
Zachk18launchpad is so slow right now21:04
Zachk18who runs the doc team?21:05
mdkeno one21:05
Saj0577_Zachk18: look at the last word you wrote in that question :)21:05
Zachk18Saj0577, yeah...team21:06
faganZachk18: Its a democracy21:06
* Zachk18 concedes to fagan21:06
mdkewell, not a democracy. a meritocracy :)21:06
mdkeas with most of Ubuntu21:06
mdkewe have a structure which you can find at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Organization21:06
Zachk18mdke, i know that page.21:06
faganmdke: Could you look at my fix for a typo Bug #44725021:07
ubot4Launchpad bug 447250 in ubuntu-docs "Missing 'r' in 'your' in scanner text" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44725021:07
Zachk18i'm on the https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc-contributors team21:07
faganIt just adds a letter so id say its safe for the string freeze exception21:07
mdkeI think it's too late for further string changes at this stage, I'm afraid21:08
faganAh we really need to pick up on typos earlier21:08
mdkechanging just one letter means that the whole string needs to be retranslated in each language21:09
mdkeyeah, we definitely do21:09
mdkewe'll look at that closely for the next release, hopefully have an earlier proof reading period21:09
mdkebut we'll get the fix into the lucid branch once it opens21:09
mdkethanks for working on it21:09
faganIll try work through the bug list before lucid begins21:10
faganOh while your here whats your opinion on Bug #44209721:11
ubot4Launchpad bug 442097 in ubuntu-docs "IE6 in Windows document" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44209721:11
faganIE6 and IE7/8 have two very similar processes just the location is different21:12
faganI submitted a patch that adds a section with IE7/8 but its very similar21:12
mdkeif the steps are very similar, I'd tend to try and have a single section which works for both21:13
mdkeusers don't normally need to be walked through exactly which buttons to click word for word, it's enough that the instructions are clear in the context of the UI21:14
mdkebut I think the idea is that this particular document will be retired for Lucid21:14
mdkeand be replaced by the new installation guide21:14
faganthat would make sense21:14
mdkeso I would say let's wait and see on that one21:15
faganYep ill get another bug to work on in the meantime21:15
mdkegood stuff21:16
* mdke tries to figure out why his live usb isn't persistent :(21:17
Rocket2DMnhey guys21:18
mdkeah, hi Rocket2DMn21:18
faganhey Rocket2DMn21:18
Rocket2DMnwhat did you decide with your patch fagan , gonna keep IE6 support?21:18
faganI was just talking with mdke and he said I should wait till lucid because that doc may be dropped in favor of the installation guide21:19
faganSo ill just wait and if its needed ill fix it up21:20
=== nixternal_ is now known as nixternal
faganDid we include any docs about Grub2?21:23
faganI wouldnt think we would need any21:24
faganOoh I just found something out of date.21:27
=== starcraftman is now known as starcraft
mdkehi starcraftman21:37
starcraftmanhail mdke, sorry if you and rocket were talking in here. Was on an alt machine. I really need a way to sync my buffers and channels.21:38
mdkenope, you didn't miss anything21:39
mdkehe's been telling me that you've been doing lots of goodwork on the wiki though21:39
starcraftmanOh, well ok then. Hehe, I do what I can, more of an IRC guy than mail list. Done a nice big pass over backup sections, still trying to fix up formatting and make it all work nice.21:40
* fagan hates finding missing docs while in string freeze 21:41
mdkehe'd like to get you into the ~ubuntu-doc-wiki-admins team to help out with some of the maintenance issues with the wiki, page moving etc21:41
mdkeI'm up for it if you are :)21:41
mdkethe key requirements are to understand the tag system (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag) and the page deletion/moving issues (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/DeletingAndRenaming)21:42
starcraftmanmdke: Aye, he just told me about that. Suppose would be nice to have power, mwa... oh, I'll be good.21:42
starcraftmanRight, I think I already read this up a while ago when I was prepping a few old pages and cleaning tags for deletion. Important thing is to delink before deltion/move else ya end up with broken links can't be tracked right?21:44
mdkestarcraftman: would you fancy sending an email to the mailing list with an application to join the team? The things that the email should include are set out here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Organization21:44
faganAny docs meetings during the UDS (Its going to be my first :) )21:44
mdkestarcraftman: exactly, yes. Basically to search for links to pages which you are moving or deleting, and use redirects if necessary (or fix the links)21:44
Saj0577_mdke: do many people get refused?lol21:45
mdkeSaj0577_: I don't know, Rocket2DMn is the first person to have gone through the process (it's quite new). But the key thing is to demonstrate significant contribution to the help wiki, to demonstrate familiarity with our processes21:46
mdkeif that's the case, I don't see any reason why not21:46
Saj0577_mdke: i mean for the normal wiki and system teams. (because i understand you go through a vote before become member.make sense/21:47
mdkeSaj0577_: the process applies to the wiki admins and system doc committers teams, the contributors team is open for all without any discussion21:47
starcraftmanmdke: sure thing, Hmmm, I'll whip something up slightly more serious. Track most of my contributions on my homepage, that sufficient, or ya want to embed in the email links to my main pages?21:47
mdkestarcraftman: whatever you find most convenient, I'd say21:48
fagansaj0577: You can still submit patches ive been doing that for a while.21:48
mdkeRocket2DMn's recommendation carries quite a bit of weight :)21:48
Saj0577_fagan: yeah i have been working on it.21:48
* mdke is loving all the new contributors21:48
starcraftmanmdke: hehe, I'm flattered. I just do what I can :)21:48
mdkegood stuff21:49
* fagan has been submitting patches since the end of jaunty 21:49
faganI love just fixing bugs21:49
mdkewe love fixing the bugs :)21:49
starcraftmanmdke: there a vote at a meeting after application?21:50
Saj0577_i like doing doc work just sometimes get layout wrong21:50
mdkestarcraftman: not a vote, just a discussion on the mailing list21:50
mdkethat reminds me, we haven't added Rocket2DMn to ~ubuntu-core-doc yet21:50
* mdke attends to it21:50
starcraftmanmdke: k.21:51
Saj0577_Is the process to the documentation committers similar ?21:51
mdkeSaj0577_: it's all here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Organization21:51
Saj0577_mdke: yeah im reading it atm just checking.21:52
fagansaj0577 are you familiar with bazaar ?21:53
Saj0577_fagan: thats what i was just going to say there. i am rubbish with the whole lp bazaar thing never understoof it fully no matter how many guides i read21:53
faganbranch is to get. pull is to get changes. diff is to show what you have done.21:54
faganThats all you really need for the moment saj057721:54
Saj0577_fagan: so to check something how do you know what to pull though?21:55
fagancd <directory of the branch>21:55
faganbzr pull21:55
faganin terminal21:55
Saj0577_fagan: but like how can you cd to it if not coonected. i get real confused lol21:56
* Rocket2DMn hates CSS21:57
fagansaj0577 you need to branch first. Pull is just to update21:57
faganbzr branch lp:ubuntu-docs21:57
Saj0577_Rocket2DMn: what you having trouble with?21:57
Saj0577_fagan: hang on going to try now21:57
Rocket2DMnSaj0577, a website i maintain for a friend's company, it isnt working with IE821:58
Saj0577_so right atm i dont even have bazaar installed.21:58
Saj0577_Rocket2DMn: you found which part is causing the problem?21:58
Rocket2DMnyeah Saj0577 , i know where the problem is, it's just a matter of getting IE and FF to agree21:59
faganRocket2DMn: IE doesnt exactly follow standards. Have you tried using safari or chrome?21:59
faganMicrosoft are very bad at browsers22:00
Rocket2DMnfagan, i know, but it needs to work with IE22:00
faganAh yeah it is the most used browser even if its horrible22:00
faganThe reason why I said try using safari or chrome too is just to test it out22:01
* fagan thinks webkit is excellent22:02
Rocket2DMnit works OK in FF and others22:03
Saj0577_fagan: whats name of the whole branch?22:03
Saj0577_its downloading the branch now22:04
faganSo when thats downloaded you will have your own ubuntu docs22:04
faganyou can edit it on gedit and play around22:05
Saj0577_fagan: okay you got time to run through an example of how i would change something and upload it back to the server?22:05
faganWell at the moment you cant upload it.22:06
faganso go to places>home folder22:06
faganthen go to ubuntu-docs22:06
Saj0577_fagan: im doing it all through terminal im a temrinal guy :)22:06
fagancd ubuntu-docs22:07
Saj0577_yep im there22:07
faganthat gives you a list of the folders22:07
faganchoose one that sounds interests you22:07
Saj0577_yeah i know. so i know cant upload but thats pick one as a dummy as if we were going to22:07
Saj0577_gone for about-ubuntu22:08
fagancd c22:08
fagancd C (sorry)22:08
Saj0577_whats dif between c and po?22:08
faganpo is for translations22:08
Saj0577_oright okay. right im in C22:08
fagangedit about-ubuntu.xml22:09
Saj0577_fagan: got it open in nano22:09
fagannano about-ubuntu.xml22:09
* Saj0577_ never understoof xml22:09
faganits docbook22:10
faganits similar to html22:10
Saj0577_oright okays :)22:10
faganso there you can change what you want. When you save the file bzr picks up on it.22:11
Saj0577_fagan: do i not need to check before i save that someone else has not already made a change since i pulled it?22:11
faganWell no22:12
Saj0577_how come?22:12
faganThey more than likely didnt change anything you changed22:12
faganand bzr diffs only contain stuff you change22:12
Saj0577_argh right so lets say ive changed some spelling and saved nano and closed it then do i need to do anything?22:13
faganyou need to go back to the root of the ubuntu-docs folder22:13
faganso cd .. and cd .. again22:13
faganthen bzr diff22:14
Saj0577_hen thats that done yep?22:14
faganso it shows you what you changed, then you just copy that into a file ending in .diff and attach it to a bug on launchpad22:15
faganor post it to the mailing list22:15
faganJust ask for a commiter to push it for you22:15
Saj0577_okay so just send an email with the copy of it or send an email with an attached .diff?22:16
j1mchi all22:16
faganwell you can do either if you want22:16
faganj1mc: hello22:17
Saj0577_alright. and then do i just run bzr pull before i start any work like if not checked for few days?22:17
Saj0577_j1mc: hey22:17
fagansaj0577 yep22:17
Saj0577_fagan: well thats nice and easy why cant the guides be that simple. thanks for that by the way that was great :)22:17
fagansaj0577 no probs22:18
Saj0577_time to sort out claws again get all ym mail back on it22:19
starcraftmanmdke: k, mail sent to list, I hope it went through.22:24
starcraftmanI dunno why, sporadically I get trouble.22:24
Saj0577_starcraftman: well i got it22:25
starcraftmanah good.22:25
Saj0577_comes up as unknwon 3000 :S lol22:25
starcraftmanthat is my email account.22:26
Saj0577_lol fair does22:26
starcraftmanI'm not a fancy ubuntu member yet to get one with starcraftman or so.22:26
Saj0577_starcraftman: you use an email client?22:26
starcraftmanSaj0577_: kontact, got 4 accounts now to manage with it.22:28
* fagan uses evolution, ubuntu one address book is awesome22:28
Saj0577_imap or pop?22:29
faganI use pop22:29
Saj0577_why?(just looking for incite)22:29
faganimap is a little bit harder on servers22:29
faganbecause you are always connected22:29
faganpop you ping the server and ask it if it has anything then close the connection22:30
Saj0577_if i use multiple computers want all mail read on one machine to appear as read on them all and all mail in one sentbox in the sentbox off all the other clients what should i use pop or imap?22:30
Saj0577_thought so :)22:31
faganbecause the mail is still on the server22:31
Saj0577_where as pop copies it onto machine yeah?22:31
starcraftmanSaj0577_: imap all the way. Pop on another just so I see what came in.22:31
Saj0577_sweet i always forget when setting up.22:31
starcraftmanimap is awesome. gmail did that right. Wish they did ldap already.22:32
faganstarcraftman: you going for the wiki admin team?22:33
starcraftmanfagan: that is so,22:34
faganstarcraftman: Ill +1 that22:35
starcraftmanfagan: hehe, well discussion is on list.22:37
faganJust sent it on22:37
Saj0577_starcraftman: il +1 it cne get client sorted22:37
starcraftmanSaj0577_: huh? what client?22:39
Saj0577_starcraftman: just installing and configgin mail client not done it on this computer pet22:39
starcraftmanSaj0577_: ah, i see.22:40
starcraftmankontact or evolution?22:40
Saj0577_starcraftman: nooo claws :)22:40
Saj0577_evolution is to heavy i think. and kontact is similar.22:40
faganevolution in karmic has some real interesting stuff22:40
faganyou can sync your contacts up with ubuntu one (via couchdb)22:41
faganits very easy22:41
starcraftmanSaj0577_: ah, cool. K, well hope works, never tried claws.22:41
Saj0577_fagan: does it need all the gnome stuff for it to work though?22:42
fagansaj0577_: yep22:42
Saj0577_pfft :(22:42
starcraftmanfagan: ya could manually do that though with any app long as the contact data stored easily. I suppose is nice if automated.22:42
starcraftmanSaj0577_: I know, I want kde client.22:43
faganI know but its nice just to have it there by default22:43
Saj0577_dont liek gnome anymore though.22:44
faganGnome 3.0 is coming22:45
Saj0577_if its a real improvement might try it.22:45
faganIts awesome already22:46
fagancomplete redesign of the desktop experience22:46
faganI cant wait for it22:46
faganIm testing it out now22:46
Saj0577_wahey got one of my mail accounts to work22:48
starcraftmanfagan: I dunno, heard lots of complaints. I'm pretty happy with kde to be honest, 4.3. And I used to be a pretty avid gnome user.22:50
faganstarcraftman: Me too but its a redesign to use newer technology, redesigns always are controversial.22:51
faganClutter is the new hotness22:52
faganThe current interface is plain and dated, Gnome-shell is special22:52
faganits flashy and has all the bling of the red light district22:53
starcraftman3.0 is basically gnomeshell?22:53
faganThat and a few other new things like zeitgeist. I love zeitgeist22:53
starcraftmanwell now I'm not excited.22:54
faganit journals all of your activities (firefox history, recent documents etc)22:54
faganIts made to make life handy22:54
starcraftmanfagan: some don't like idea of all your history tracked.22:55
faganYou will be able to turn it off22:55
faganand ignore certain things22:56
faganbut also it can be used for parental control22:56
starcraftmanya, like parental control has ever worked.22:57
faganother than zeitgeist and Gnome-shell. They are just streamlining and depreciating.22:57
starcraftmanthere's no replacement for good parenting.22:57
faganbut you cant stop curiosity22:57
fagankids will look up dirty words22:58
starcraftmanfagan: nor should ya. Curiosity makes world go round.22:58
Saj0577_fagan: isntr that part of growing up22:58
faganbut still its bad for kids <10 to be looking up that sort of thing22:59
faganand some parents want the control22:59
Saj0577_oyeah sure at that age22:59
Saj0577_but at that age dont really need to be on internet tbh22:59
* starcraftman shrugs.22:59
starcraftmanSaj0577_: lol, try and stop em. society is built on net.22:59
faganbut most kids now have their social networking23:00
Saj0577_social networking is fore 13+ according to the sites23:00
fagangoogling and tweeting is part of kids vocabulary23:00
faganbut most people below that at least where I am from (Ireland) are on those sites23:01
* fagan thinks about making a blog post about this23:02
starcraftmanfagan: well, I dunno. not having kids any time soon so suppose it's not a care of mine. I'm pretty liberal though, I wouldn't freak out and lock kids down as I've seen sometimes.23:02
starcraftmanfagan: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Blogs are evil.23:02
starcraftmanI don't mind, just darn if everyone don't have one now.23:03
faganId suggest just having an alert system to say the kid look at this site23:03
starcraftmanI wait for someone to make an anti-blog.23:03
faganwhy? lol23:03
starcraftmanBecause the internetz can!23:04
starcraftmancome to think of it, I better go domain squat :p23:04
starcraftmannext thing ya know, I'll be selling it for cool mil.23:04
faganSpam already makes it hard to make a blog23:04
starcraftmanre-re-captcha to the rescue.23:07
starcraftmansoon won't be able to click a link on net without a captcha.23:08
starcraftmancaptcha guys make mony off that?23:08
fagandont know23:08
faganI just use akismet23:08
faganRocket2DMn: I agree with what you were saying but there is no other way to change the timeout23:38
Rocket2DMnsure fagan23:39
Rocket2DMnfagan, according to the wiki page, you're suppose dot use either /etc/default/grub or /etc/grub.d/ directory with custom entries23:40
Saj0577_missed all that cos of netsplit23:40
faganI suppose I should ask someone on the kernel team or whoever takes care of GRUB about what to do23:40
Rocket2DMnyou didnt miss anyhting Saj0577 that's the first i've said23:40
Rocket2DMnsure fagan , though i think in the end it will come down to us pulling information from grub2 documentation (like on that wiki page) and testing it ourselves to make sure it works23:40
faganThats fine23:41
faganIts simpler sometimes just asking and seeing where that gets you23:42
Rocket2DMnwere you trying to get something into Karmic documentation for it?23:42
fagannope im working on bugs for lucid23:43
faganim just starting early23:43
Rocket2DMnah ok, i asked mdke yesterday when the karmic branch would be opened and lucid set as the dev branch, but i signed off before i got a repsonse23:44
Rocket2DMnuntil then, I don't think we can really add in lucid documentation yet23:45
Rocket2DMnunless we branch from an earlier revision i guess23:45
faganI know ill just keep attaching patches for what I can and when lucid opens commiters can take them23:45
Rocket2DMnokie dokie23:46
faganIm just reading the wiki to see what I can find23:48
=== FisherMan is now known as Zachk18

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!