[16:33] <Cynthia> AzaToth: bullgard4 was saying that even without sudo lshw can still see stuff
[16:34] <bullgard4> penguin42: Yes. And the question was where might be that little bit more information.
[16:35] <vigo> SCP
[16:36] <Cynthia> cynthia@jolteon:~$ lshw > non-sudo-lshw.txt; sudo lshw > sudo-lshw.txt; diff -u non-sudo-lshw.txt sudo-lshw.txt | wc -l
[16:36] <Cynthia> 256
[16:37] <Cynthia> ranging from things like computer description, BIOS vendor, logical names for devices, more capabilities for my DVD burner...
[16:38] <AzaToth> bullgard4: "sudo lshw -C multimedia" under sid doesn't give warning
[16:38] <bullgard4> AzaToth: Ah!
[16:40] <rrva_> hi! how do I get 802.11n speeds against my linksys wrt320N router with my intel 5100agn card in karmic?
[16:40] <rrva_> I seem to get 802.11g speeds now
[16:50] <nemo> Amaranth: sweet. w/ pasuspender my CPU usage is almost nonexistent
[16:50] <nemo> now. granted, I have no sound
[16:50] <nemo> I was hoping it would use alsa :-/
[16:51] <Cynthia> nemo: I don't really know what I'm talking about here, but I speculate that with pasuspender you have to configure your applications or the default output device to be ALSA because the default is still a PulseAudio one
[16:52] <nemo> Cynthia: just this thing Amaranth suggested
[16:52] <Cynthia> nemo: ah
[16:52] <nemo> to work aroudn fact that SDL audio games take up 100% of CPU
[16:52] <nemo> or crash
[16:52] <nemo> or both
[16:52] <nemo> $ pasuspender ./hedgewars
[16:52] <Cynthia> pulseaudio gives me a lot of trouble in Audacity, and random hangs in many applications
[16:52] <nemo> yep
[16:52] <nemo> I'm not a fan
[16:53] <nemo> I'd remove it except I need to suffer to support users of Ubuntu
[16:53] <timber> my screensaver never show up
[16:54] <dotblank> Yea audacity has never really worked for me
[16:54] <Cynthia> it makes Audacity's audio crackle, it makes paused audio files take up 10%, then 20% etc. until Audacity takes 60% of CPU until I resume the playback; if I change the default output device to be ALSA, it completely stops the audio playback after some time (I speculate it's a 2147483648 sample limit); hangs in Totem, in Xine, etc.
[16:54] <nemo> Cynthia: I've done same rant in here
[16:54] <dotblank> audacity isnt really native though
[16:54] <Cynthia> yeah :/
[16:54] <nemo> Cynthia: it should never have been made default until it was shown to be stable on same variety of standard HW that alsa supported
[16:54] <nemo> and by standard I don't mean bluetooth :)
[16:54] <Cynthia> dotblank: X isn't native either
[16:55] <dotblank> well isnt audacity java based?
[16:55] <Cynthia> (I compare PulseAudio to X, in that both are <hardware name here> servers - audio or graphical display)
[16:55] <Cynthia> dotblank: wxwindows
[16:56] <Amaranth> nemo: there are like 60 desktops and laptops canonical does testing on
[16:56] <dotblank> hmm
[16:56] <jimpop> awe, come on folks.  Pulseaudio is perfect and doesn't cause anyone any problems.  The whole concept of pulseaudio is shrouded in perfectness and universal harmony.  Without pulseaudio Ubuntu wouldn't every work or be nearly as solid and rock stable, not to mention usable.
[16:56] <dotblank> well they should add pulse audio support
[16:56] <Cynthia> jimpop: If I didn't know any better, I'd want to strangle you right now :)
[16:56] <nemo> Amaranth: extensive? or yep, it boots and totem plays a vid? :)
[16:56] <dotblank> im going to say this "I love pulseaudio" it allows me to do so much more
[16:57] <Amaranth> nemo: *shrug*
[16:57] <dotblank> I really liked how easy iot is to network audio
[16:57] <Cynthia> if apps used PulseAudio correctly, this wouldn't be so bad, I think
[16:57] <Amaranth> nemo: the developers tend to also have family using it :)
[16:57] <jimpop> Cynthia, ;-) Pulseaudio sucks, everbody knows it sucks... yet it just lives on like a bad rash
[16:57] <nemo> dotblank: network audio is an uncommon feature.
[16:57] <dotblank> how does pulseaudio suck?
[16:57] <Cynthia> totem doesn't work so badly with pulse.
[16:57] <Amaranth> Cynthia: some of it is drivers
[16:58] <nemo> dotblank: oh. let me count the ways
[16:58] <dotblank> Sure it has some latency issues. but the real problem with pulse is its adoption isnt 100%
[16:58] <Cynthia> nemo: you'll run out of fingers, even if you do finger-binary counting :)
[16:58] <nemo> dotblank: crashing apps, locking up apps, static and crackling, dying completely losing all sound in apps
[16:58] <jimpop> so why is it in a 100% complete OS?
[16:58] <jimpop> a supposedly 100% complete OS
[16:59] <dotblank> lets see 90% of what you just are programs using the alsa pulseaudio plugin
[16:59] <Amaranth> jimpop: pulseaudio is the only way to do sane bluetooth and firewire audio
[16:59] <dotblank> said*
[16:59] <nemo> dotblank: there are lots of excuses
[16:59] <nemo> the point is
[16:59] <nemo> a default config for ubuntu fails hard
[16:59] <nemo> and the common factor is pulse
[16:59] <nemo> you can blame it on nvidia's driver
[16:59] <nemo> on bad alsa drivers
[16:59] <dotblank> Its a transistion period
[16:59] <nemo> on lacking some tweaking config
[16:59] <nemo> it has been a transition period for a year
[16:59] <Amaranth> but even if you use straight alsa for those you'll get a lot of the same bugs because apps using the "full alsa API" only support soundblaster-like desktop cards
[17:00] <nemo> and it should never have been done in the first place as default.
[17:00] <nemo> Amaranth: I didn't have even a tiny fraction of these problems when I was on straight ALSA
[17:00] <jimpop> but you can't remove PA from Karmic... it *breaks* sound controls
[17:00] <nemo> on all my ubuntu systems that now fail hard
[17:00] <Cynthia> nemo: if not for the sheer amount of feedback (pun not intended) users of Ubuntu gave on PulseAudio, it wouldn't be near where it is at the moment
[17:00] <Amaranth> nemo: note I said "when using bluetooth or firewire audio"
[17:00] <nemo> Cynthia: lovely :)
[17:00] <dotblank> look... linux audio has never been perfect but im all for trying to get a common standard or library. if latency and other tiny things are issues then run jack
[17:00] <nemo> Amaranth: right. those people can feel free to install pulse
[17:01] <nemo> or it could be suggested or something if detected
[17:01] <nemo> dotblank: not tiny things. major things
[17:01] <nemo> latency I would forgive
[17:01] <Amaranth> nemo: Or we can all have audio that wasn't designed in 1994
[17:01] <nemo> but it basically is nonfunctional most of the time
[17:01] <jimpop> i'm not sure that breaking 90% of ppls systems is worth the benefit of having 10% use sane bluetooth and firewire audio
[17:01] <dotblank> I rarely have issues with apps that actually have pulse support.
[17:01] <Amaranth> jimpop: didn't most people's systems
[17:01] <nemo> dotblank: as I said. you can come up with qualifiers and excuses
[17:02] <joaopinto> oh no, PA bashing again ?
[17:02] <Amaranth> the ones who have problems just scream the loudest
[17:02] <nemo> the point is, something was made default that breaks many apps and systems
[17:02] <Cynthia> joaopinto: that would be the case, yes
[17:02] <nemo> dotblank: whoever is at fault, the point is that config was not a good idea
[17:02] <dotblank> what is your alternative OSS?
[17:02] <Amaranth> nemo: everything you've said could be said about compiz too
[17:02] <nemo> dotblank: leave most people on ALSA
[17:02] <nemo> breaks less stuff
[17:02] <nemo> Amaranth: and luckily there is a metacity failover there
[17:02] <Amaranth> pulseaudio is also good for laptops
[17:02] <dotblank> yea but ALSA has issues to. especially locking sound devices
[17:02] <nemo> Amaranth: there is no such alternative for most users.
[17:03] <jimpop> joaopinto, it must be symptomatic of a real problem that isn't being addressed
[17:03] <nemo> dotblank: sure. but speaking from personal experience. 3 machines, 3 different sets of HW, all have way more issues then they did under straight alsa
[17:03] <Amaranth> jimpop: yeah, pulseaudio is using drivers in a way they have never been used before
[17:03] <Amaranth> jimpop: often pulseaudio is actually the first user of some long existing API call :P
[17:03] <nemo> aaanyway
[17:03] <nemo> back to my question
[17:03] <nemo> Amaranth: can I configure this pasuspender in some way so I can still get sound?
[17:04] <nemo> w/o using pulse?
[17:04] <dotblank> speaking from personal experiance 5 ubuntu machines all with networked audio and perfect pulse audio support. I only had issues with skype but now thats fixed 2
[17:04] <joaopinto> nemo, I am sad that you don't have development drivers skills to work on your problems, a count of the lines you have written on this channel on the last week just about how bad is pulseaudio would turn into a significant contribution if it was code
[17:04] <nemo> joaopinto: mm. I may well not. I have no familiarity w/ sound architectures and no real desire to learn
[17:05] <joaopinto> jimpop, how is not being addressed ? Aren't you aware of the recent work on PA ?
[17:05] <nemo> there's a reason I use ubuntu, figuring out and fixing it for myself stopped being fun years ago
[17:05] <dotblank> If I had the skills i would make a liba52 module for pulse so I can have surround sound over spdif
[17:05] <Cynthia> joaopinto: the real effort here would be in porting many different apps and drivers to use PA
[17:05] <nemo> you guys have, at least until this latest idea, been good at configurations that "just worked"
[17:06] <nemo> was pretty awesome, and I applaud ubuntu for it
[17:06] <jimpop> joaopinto, I am... but I am not aware of any improvements... so i get the sense that it is wasted time
[17:06] <Cynthia> applications all use different code to talk with audio hardware
[17:06] <joaopinto> nemo, right, so how do you feel qualified to address the root cause of your problems to PA ?
[17:06] <penguin42> Cynthia: Actually, that's not true
[17:06] <nemo> joaopinto: I can give you a list of reasons
[17:06] <Cynthia> penguin42: I mean, how Audacity does it isn't going to work in Totem etc.
[17:07] <Cynthia> Audacity has a current playback position cursor, and all sorts of things; Totem does not
[17:07] <penguin42> Cynthia: True, but it's only the advanced stuff that takes some thought on porting
[17:07] <dotblank> Shoot me. I like pulseaudio I think its a step in the right direction but sure there some problems getting adoption for it and maybe ubuntu integrated pulse too soon.
[17:07] <jimpop> dotblank: Bingo!
[17:07] <nemo> joaopinto: 1) removing pulseaudio resolves the issues 2) the issues showed up after transition to pulseaudio 3) often times problems are temporarily solved after restarting pulseaudio
[17:07] <joaopinto> jimpop, have you checked the PA DEVs ppa ? I dind't checked myself because I don't have problems, but according to the devs it is expected to bring major improvements
[17:08] <h00k> I'm wondering why, when I open a terminal, its using / as a working directory instead of ~
[17:08]  * jimpop laughs
[17:08] <Amaranth> h00k: echo $HOME
[17:08] <penguin42> h00k: It sounds like your home directory isn't there or is wrong
[17:08] <nemo> joaopinto: I'm perfectly willing to accept that the basic problem is bad alsa drivers or whatnot, but that doesn't matter in terms of user experience.
[17:08] <h00k> oho.  genius, hang on.
[17:08] <Amaranth> h00k: how are you opening it?
[17:08] <jimpop> Karmic is at Beta.  There should be no major audio/video/input problems at this point.
[17:09] <joaopinto> nemo, I am refering to the root cause, not to the symptons
[17:09] <jimpop> yet PA persists
[17:09] <Amaranth> jimpop: again, for most people it works great
[17:09] <h00k> Amaranth: through the netbook launcher, also $HOME is '/home/anthony'
[17:09] <joaopinto> jimpop, it works great for me
[17:09] <jimpop> Amaranth, how do you calculate "most"?
[17:09] <joaopinto> jimpop, do you have any real data to support that claim ?
[17:09] <Cynthia> pulseaudio, when done right, has some very nifty features, like per-stream volume, hardware and software mixing if the card can't do mixing; etc. But it so happens that Pulse devs have made a "glitch-free core" lately that should eliminate most crackles in sound.
[17:09] <jimpop> this irclog
[17:10] <jimpop> it's full of PA problems
[17:10] <nemo> joaopinto: look. as I said, I'm sure if everything is behaving properly, pulseaudio works great
[17:10] <Amaranth> jimpop: the fact that people aren't fleeing ubuntu in droves and we're not getting 3000 bug reports a day about audio issues
[17:10] <jimpop> launchpad is full of PA bugs
[17:10] <alankila> I also like PA because it supports proper audio resampling, and has none of the shitty algorithms appropriate for ALSA/kernel that you get otherwise
[17:10] <nemo> I'm sure it is just lacking testing on a variety of HW and configurations
[17:10] <nemo> but... that's the problem. until that happened shouldn'tve been rolled out
[17:10] <Amaranth> jimpop: and ubiquity has about 1000 bugs open
[17:10] <penguin42> to be fair I think karmic pa is better than anything previously; and some of the stuff people hit here aren't PA problems they're driver problems -
[17:11] <joaopinto> jimpop, before PA, sound problems were very common on the support channel, now they were just renamed to PA, because most people don't know more than that
[17:11] <alankila> I've been thinking that I could contribute a virtual room effect for pure stereo headphones, I have such code for jack and it's a relatively ok starting point... but I'm not sure where to plug this sort of post-processing effect into pa
[17:11] <Amaranth> nemo: please buy me 1000 computers all with different sound and video setups so I can test
[17:11] <nemo> Amaranth: that's a silly retort
[17:11] <Amaranth> nemo: things get tested by putting them in the default setup :P
[17:11] <joaopinto> jimpop, you should be on #ubuntu before PA, they you would said, let's drop sound support...
[17:11] <jimpop> lol
[17:11] <joaopinto> so please dont' make errenous assumptions
[17:11] <nemo> Amaranth: you could easily get 1000 testers just in people testing an alternate config w/o making it default :)
[17:12] <penguin42> Amaranth: That's what the 'return without penalty within 7 days' resellers are for isn't it :-)
[17:12] <Amaranth> nemo: ah but those people are all going to have similar hardware
[17:13] <Amaranth> nemo: no one tested compiz on every possible configuration before shipping it
[17:13] <jimpop> i tested PA at UbuCon.... (USB stick) it didn't work then on a TP-T61p (older hardware).
[17:13] <mikejet> By default, bash is set up to run "ls --color=auto", which wrongly outputs XTERM color escape sequences even when your term type doesn't support color.  "ls" should check the terminfo before outputing these escape sequences.
[17:13] <nemo> Amaranth: I'm sure you could get 10,000 too. given size of ubuntu user base
[17:13] <jimpop> and compiz can easily be disabled and removed without breaking video
[17:13] <nemo> Amaranth: hardly need to inflict it as default just to get alpha testers
[17:14] <Amaranth> jimpop: not for all the people where X crashes when compiz loads :)
[17:14] <jimpop> Amaranth, it can be done via a terminal
[17:14] <h00k> Amaranth probably knows this
[17:14] <Cynthia> jimpop: , which most newbie users won't think of
[17:14] <jimpop> the point being that compiz *doesnt* break video
[17:14] <nemo> welllll
[17:14] <jimpop> and removing PA *does* break audio
[17:15] <Amaranth> A terminal? Oh god, you mean I have to type in 'gconftool -s -t string /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity'?
[17:15] <JohnPhys> Jordan_U, after another reboot or so, grub 2 wouldn't chainload from again.  I'm just going to re-install grub legacy and forget grub2 at this point.
[17:15] <penguin42> mikejet: Arguably ls shouldn't output colour sequences even with --color=auto if the TERM doesn't support it
[17:15] <test34> jimpop, you mean compiz can break video and removing PA doesnt break audio right?
[17:15] <nemo> hm
[17:16] <nemo> game locked up on exit
[17:16] <nemo> was trying "pasuspender"
[17:16] <jimpop> test34, no.  dpkg --purge pulseaudio breaks sound volume controls
[17:16] <nemo> killall pulseaudio
[17:16] <mikejet> penguin42, "arguably"? that's clearly a bug.
[17:16] <nemo> fixed
[17:16] <nemo> but... that's probably due to hwengine being a separate process? although I didn't hear sound...
[17:16] <penguin42> mikejet: Probably; I just mean that you originally said it was the alias that was wrong - I could see that they could both be wrong
[17:17]  * Amaranth remembers everyone screaming about esd the same way
[17:17] <nemo> after killall pulseaudio sound seems to be ok in hwengine. even though parent was launched w/ pasuspender *shrug*
[17:17] <nemo> of course it'll probably go to 100% CPU shortly
[17:17] <jimpop> a typical user can purge compiz and still watch youtube.  The same can not be said for purging pulseaudio
[17:17] <mikejet> penguin42, exactly. the alias is annoying, but im okay with that because lots of people like that.  but yes, outputting xterm colors when your term type is something else is just wrong.
[17:18] <h00k> I'm really happy with pulseaudio and what it can do.  I'm excited to see it when its done.
[17:18] <jimpop> h00k, me too... but it shouldn't be in Karmic Beta if it's not yet done
[17:18] <Amaranth> jimpop: it's been in every release since hardy
[17:18] <h00k> jimpop: effectively making testing useless?  I don't think so
[17:19] <penguin42> mikejet: File a bug against coreutils?
[17:19] <h00k> jimpop: and what Amaranth said
[17:19] <jimpop> it shouldn't be mandatory in Karmic if it's not done.
[17:19] <dotblank> look I think putting pulse in ubuntu is accelrating PA development. I think ubuntu is pushing PA along because ubuntu needs a common sound server
[17:19] <alankila> I think it's "done". It's just that it doesn't work for various reasons which need to be sorted out.
[17:19] <h00k> wfm!
[17:20] <alankila> that being said it's been working for me for most of the time, but I had trouble with the glitch-free playback code
[17:20] <penguin42> I had problems with glitching, but someone showed me that for some odd reason lining up all the volumes to 100% removed the problem - I don't get that
[17:21] <GobiTheGoblin> Anyone got moblin-remix working?
[17:21] <alankila> but even the glitch-free code appears to be working these days -- if it's still being used at all.
[17:23] <Cynthia> penguin42: the bug I have with PulseAudio is that I get very glitchy sound if I set the balance to 100% left, but I don't know where to even start to debug that
[17:23] <Cynthia> if I set the balance to 99% left, the bug disappears
[17:23] <Amaranth> jimpop: btw, every distro coming out that uses GNOME depends on pulseaudio for volume control now
[17:24] <penguin42> Cynthia: Wacky - I agree it's weird, also that really doesn't sound like a timing problem - you wouldn't think it would be related to volume levels
[17:24] <jimpop> Amaranth, that's good if it works as good as what it's replacing
[17:24]  * jimpop reboots to see if he can get sound working again <--- this is sooo like Win3.1 days
[17:24] <Amaranth> we're actually late to that game, the pulseaudio volume control has been the GNOME upstream default since 2.26 but we kept using the old code
[17:25] <Amaranth> More and more GNOME requires certain features to be there
[17:25] <Amaranth> Their attitude is if you don't like it use XFCE
[17:26] <dreamon_> Tried upgrade to karmic. Stucking with this error -> Couldn't configure pre-depend openoffice.org-core for openoffice.org-filter-binfilter, probably a dependency cycle.
[17:27] <dreamon_> Any kind of solution?
[17:27] <Amaranth> dreamon_: for now you can remove openoffice.org-filter-binfilter and try again
[17:28] <dreamon> Amaranth, Ok.. i Try
[17:35] <dotblank> yea the amount of updates Ive had have completely broken my system
[17:37] <dreamon> Amaranth, This works. Thanks.
[17:37] <mahfouz> I want to be able to just hit ENTER in gdm screen, this was changed in karmic 1-2 days ago, file a bug?
[17:38] <Amaranth> mahfouz: known
[17:38] <mahfouz> h00k: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=46539
[17:38] <mahfouz> Amaranth: is there a bug for it?
[17:38] <Amaranth> mahfouz: yeah but you get to find it :)
[17:39] <dupondje> can somebody confirm that Thunderbird isn't moving spam mails when you mark them as spam ?
[17:39] <mahfouz> lol
[17:40] <h00k> mahfouz: I had just found that, actually.  Thanks.
[17:41] <h00k> mahfouz: except I don't have to have to have it automatically cd there, it used to work :(
[17:43] <wekt> I'm trying to collect debugging information.  How can I see what program owns a window that is displayed?
[17:43] <Amaranth> h00k: if you use the keyboard shortcuts stuff to launch gnome-terminal it starts a / when using both metacity and compiz so perhaps this is why
[17:43] <wekt> Isn't there something that will let me click on & identify it?
[17:43] <h00k> Amaranth: nah, I'm just clicking the giant button on my netbook-launcher
[17:43] <Amaranth> wekt: hopefully `xprop | grep WM_CLASS`
[17:44] <Amaranth> then click on the window after running that
[17:56] <quidnunc> How do I disable the gdm screen sound?
[17:56] <quidnunc> (gdm login screen)
[18:03] <mahfouz> h00k: I think some gnome-terminal settings changed in karmic, I noticed something similat
[18:03] <mahfouz> similar
[18:03] <mahfouz> maybe that's why
[18:04] <Brian___> ok i just installed karmic beta and my broadcom wifi isnt working isnt it supose to work out of the box
[18:04] <JohnPhys> Brian___, did you try the "hardware drivers" app?
[18:04] <Amaranth> Brian___: system->administration->hardware drivers
[18:04] <Amaranth> we don't install any closed source stuff out of the box
[18:05] <Brian___> ya nothing shows up   what i had to do befor is download in synaptic is a bcm kernel thing
[18:06] <Amaranth> !info bcmwl-kernel-source
[18:06] <h00k> mahfouz: well, what happend was I rsynched my /home dir on my karmic install, reformatted/reinstalled when encrypted home, and then once I was in, rsynched all my stuffs back
[18:06] <h00k> mahfouz: this appears to be the only borked thing
[18:06] <gbs-wes> what vers. is karmic in now?
[18:06] <h00k> mahfouz: it was from a karmic instal to karmic install
[18:06] <h00k> gbs-wes: beta
[18:06] <gbs-wes> for how long now
[18:06] <Amaranth> we're between beta and release candidate
[18:06] <Brian___> Amaranth: ya tyhats what i need isnt it?
[18:07] <Amaranth> Brian___: yeah
[18:07] <Amaranth> Brian___: install, reboot, it'll start working
[18:07] <Brian___> Amaranth: thank you
[18:07] <Brian___> funny its not instyalled already
[18:07] <gbs-wes> nice... RC. karmic forced me to windows xp... because of that nvidia bug about a month ago. boss made me switch. :(. I miss it
[18:12] <Brian___> ok i got a error the folowingt pakages have unmet depends bcmwl-kernel-source depends on dkms but it is not installable
[18:12] <Brian___> broken packages
[18:13] <BUGabundo> boas o/
[18:13] <joaopinto> Brian___, sudo apt-get install -f
[18:13] <Amaranth> Brian___: it's closed source so we can't install it automatically
[18:14] <Amaranth> Brian___: and it sounds like you downloaded it on one computer and transferred it to another so you missed some dependencies
[18:14] <Brian___> f install i dont think did anything
[18:15] <mahfouz> Amaranth: you mean this one? https://bugs.launchpad.net/gdm/+bug/410337
[18:15] <Amaranth> mahfouz: nope
[18:15] <mahfouz> but it's similar
[18:15] <mahfouz> can't find any other :(
[18:15] <Amaranth> not really
[18:15] <Brian___> oh wait i think it works now
[18:18] <Amaranth> mahfouz: bug 447643
[18:18] <CyberKitsune> Hello everyone
[18:19] <CyberKitsune> I just switched from Kubuntu 9.10 -> Ubuntu 9.10
[18:19] <BUGabundo> hey CyberKitsune
[18:19] <CyberKitsune> and now my Trackpad Two-Finger Scrolling no longer works
[18:19] <CyberKitsune> as well as tap-clikc
[18:19] <CyberKitsune> clicks*
[18:19] <mahfouz> Amaranth: ok, thanks, hmm, the newest bugs dont show up in https://bugs.launchpad.net/gdm/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-datecreated&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&f
[18:19] <CyberKitsune> I am running a MacBook3,1
[18:19] <BUGabundo> mine neither
[18:20] <BUGabundo> I think you can use a touchpad feature to enable it
[18:20] <BUGabundo> the name/function escapes me CyberKitsune
[18:20] <Amaranth> CyberKitsune: system->preferences->mouse, touchpad tab
[18:20] <CyberKitsune> AH!
[18:20] <CyberKitsune> There it is.
[18:20] <CyberKitsune> Yay
[18:21] <CyberKitsune> Thanks ^^
[18:21] <BUGabundo> Amaranth: so we can't have *both* ?
[18:21] <topyli> i forget, is any irc client installed by default in karmic? i *think* there isn't. if so, i wonder if anyone is actually testing empathy's irc experience
[18:21] <BUGabundo> topyli: I'm sticking with pidgin :)
[18:22] <mahfouz> oh, my stupid, because it's in gdm(ubuntu) not in gdm
[18:22] <mac_v> topyli: empathy can handle irc
[18:22] <topyli> BUGabundo, good for you, i guess. i was interetsted in our default apps though
[18:22] <Amaranth> BUGabundo: both what?
[18:22] <joaopinto> topyli, I didn't test myself but it's reported as very limited for IRC
[18:22] <topyli> mac_v, yes it can, but i wonder if it's fun :)
[18:22] <infecto> hello
[18:23] <BUGabundo> Amaranth: both right scroll and two fingers
[18:23] <infecto> i`m up to date and
[18:23] <joaopinto> I can't use empathy because I am unable to login into msn :\
[18:23] <infecto> root      1156 94.2  1.0 564448 33088 ?        Rs   19:19   3:32 /usr/bin/X -br -nolisten tcp :0 vt7 -auth /var/run/xauth/A:0-0dZj4y
[18:23] <CyberKitsune> Hey, What is "Ubuntu One"?
[18:23] <mac_v> topyli: definitely not as fun as xchat ;p
[18:23] <Amaranth> BUGabundo: not with a GUI configuration tool, no
[18:23] <BUGabundo> ok
[18:23] <joaopinto> CyberKitsune, https://one.ubuntu.com/
[18:23] <mac_v> Amaranth: hehe , BUGabundo has been cribbing about that for a long time ;)
[18:23] <topyli> mac_v, i've tested it a long time ago. it was then missing some important commands, as well as nick completion
[18:24] <BUGabundo> mac_v: I have?!
[18:24] <BUGabundo> at least pidgin as nick autocomplete :)
[18:24] <mac_v> BUGabundo: ever since there it was either or for scrolling ... i remember ;p
[18:24] <infecto> !xserver bug
[18:24] <joaopinto> hum, let me test empathy irc
[18:24] <infecto> !X bug
[18:25] <BUGabundo> infecto: what do you want?
[18:25] <Brian___> i have one papercut that is bugging me, when ever i plug in or take out the power cored to my laptop it will goto sleep and i have to wake it up with a password
[18:25] <infecto> BUGabundo: my xserver start to using 100% cpu
[18:25] <infecto> after last upgrade
[18:25] <topyli> BUGabundo, oh pidgin is just great unless you're on lots of channels, or operator
[18:25] <mac_v> Brian___: you can change it from gconf
[18:25] <joaopinto> problem #1, no place to set autojoin chans
[18:25] <Amaranth> infecto: logout, log in again
[18:26] <Brian___> where is gconf?
[18:26] <penguin42> topyli: It's multitab support is OK, but I wish there was a way of dealing with multiple quiet channels
[18:26] <Amaranth> infecto: bug 439138
[18:26] <topyli> penguin42, well, there's only so many tabs you can keep visible without having an insanely big winow
[18:27] <penguin42> topyli: I have 3 windows :-)
[18:27] <infecto> same
[18:27] <joaopinto> erm, how do I join a channel from empathy ?
[18:27] <mac_v> Brian___: /apps/gnome-power-manager/lock/gnome_keyring_suspend
[18:27] <topyli> penguin42, oh that'll do it i guess :)
[18:27] <joaopinto> I have setup an account, made it active, and got no info about it's status
[18:27] <infecto> i re log on and its the same problem
[18:27] <Amaranth> infecto: ok so not that bug
[18:27] <Amaranth> infecto: intel graphics?
[18:27] <BUGabundo> topyli: pidgin sucks at extra comands like OPs. and needs a no higlight for channel. other then that it rules. I love the ctrl+tab to circle around
[18:27] <infecto> Amaranth: no, nvidia
[18:27] <Amaranth> infecto: Oh then I don't care
[18:28] <Amaranth> Sorry
[18:28] <infecto> Amaranth: thanks ;)
[18:28] <mac_v> Brian___: oh , you do know the gconf-editor right?
[18:28] <Brian___> mac_v: no
[18:28] <BUGabundo> topyli: and I'm on 3 irc servers, personal IM, and 4 µblog bots :) all fits on a 13.3" screen
[18:28] <mac_v> Brian___: from terminal >   $gconf-editor
[18:29] <Brian___> mac_v: ok then
[18:29] <mac_v> Brian___: then you will get the configuration GUI > navigate to  /apps/gnome-power-manager/lock/gnome_keyring_suspend
[18:29] <tgpraveen> I think better MUC support is coming in empathy 2.30
[18:29] <Brian___> mac_v: ok
[18:30] <tgpraveen> they proposed a GSOC project for it this year but it didn't get accepted
[18:30] <mobyli> ok here goes. at least it looks okay
[18:30] <mac_v> Brian___: uncheck that option , if you dont want to get prompted for password
[18:30] <tgpraveen> but as compared to pidgin the only thing you miss is / commands and you get auto join on channels in exchange
[18:31] <Brian___> no command "-editor" found but there are 40 similar ones "-editor" not found
[18:31] <Tired_> Hi.  Just realized I was in the wrong channel for karmic.  I just installed karmic via debootstrap, following a very old set of instructions on your doc wiki.  Now, I'm having trouble with grub-install
[18:31] <joaopinto> tgpraveen, actually I miss a lot more, like, it doesn't provide me a status on what happened to my irc connection, at all :P
[18:31] <mac_v> Brian___: huh?    "gconf-editor" is the command
[18:31] <mobyli> BUGabundo: oh we have nick complete now. we still have no commands like /join though
[18:32] <tgpraveen> mac_v: is it the default option to lock the laptop each time cord is taken out/in?
[18:32] <joaopinto> because the icon is not disabled on the account list, I would assume it's connect
[18:32] <Brian___> oh iok i had a $ in front of t
[18:32] <BUGabundo> mobyli: "now"? we always had! and for channel you have GUI and /join command
[18:32] <Tired_> it keeps telling me /dev/hdc1 isn't there, but it is
[18:32] <mobyli> BUGabundo: i'm talking about empathy
[18:32] <tgpraveen> mobyli: yeah unfortunately when two nicks have same starting letters it doesn't work. also it doesn't work with nicks having anything other name alphabets
[18:32] <mac_v> tgpraveen: kya ?
[18:32] <joaopinto> mobyli, how do I join a channel ?
[18:33] <jbroome> /join #channame
[18:33] <BUGabundo> mobyli: ah!
[18:33] <mobyli> tgpraveen: ah :(
[18:33] <KnifeySpooney> Hi, i'm having trouble compiling my wireless driver in Karmic. The same exact driver compiles cleanly in Jaunty. I think my wireless card is supported in Karmic because it has rt2870sta drivers in the livecd, but for some reason I can't find my connection when I scan for it. Help?
[18:33] <BUGabundo> jbroome: LOL
[18:33] <joaopinto> jbroome, how do I do that from emapthy ?
[18:33] <tgpraveen> BUGabundo:  / join is not there in empathy
[18:33] <BUGabundo> as if joaopinto didn't know
[18:33] <BUGabundo> joaopinto: doesn't it have a GUI?
[18:33] <joaopinto> repeating my question, how do join a chan ?
[18:33] <BUGabundo> tgpraveen: but isn't it a server command?
[18:33] <joaopinto> BUGabundo, no idea, i have setup an account, and got no status
[18:33] <BUGabundo> joaopinto: File->chat?
[18:33] <mobyli> joaopinto: from the empathy main window with the buddy list, use the "Room" menu
[18:34] <joaopinto> oh, so it connets, but doesn't tell me nothing about it ?
[18:34] <joaopinto> ouch
[18:34] <tgpraveen> mac_v: the bug Brian___ is talking about . is that really the default in karmic?
[18:34] <tgpraveen> BUGabundo: NO.
[18:34] <tgpraveen> telepathy people have been screaming that it is actually not a protocol
[18:34] <tgpraveen> specific thing but really something present in UI of most chat progs mostly as a legay thing from CLI dya
[18:34] <tgpraveen> days
[18:34] <joaopinto> let me try with an existing nick
[18:34] <jbroome> beats me, the thought of doing IRC from pidgin/empathy makes me pucker
[18:34] <BUGabundo> joaopinto: nothing by the clock tray?
[18:35] <joaopinto> BUGabundo, nothing, the menu Room is available, however i didn't got any info about the connection status
[18:35] <mac_v> tgpraveen: yeah , the password prompt on resume is the default
[18:35] <tgpraveen> joaopinto: first of all do you have telepathy-idle installed, next set up irc account, then there is in the menus when in the contact list window join chat or something
[18:35] <joaopinto> let me retry with an "inuse" nick
[18:35] <joaopinto> tgpraveen, right, buf you would expect some status when you setup an account or you try to connect
[18:36] <Tired_> i also noticed an error in apt-get while I was installing grub.  it said 'Can not write log, openpty() failed (/dev/pts not mounted?)'
[18:36] <Tired_> could that be related?
[18:36] <joaopinto_e> hey
[18:36] <joaopinto_e> knock knock
[18:36] <BUGabundo> wb joaopinto_e
[18:36] <tgpraveen> mac_v: Brian___ is having prob that whenever he takes out the cord it goes to sleep
[18:36] <KnifeySpooney> Hi, i'm having trouble compiling my wireless driver in Karmic. The same exact driver compiles cleanly in Jaunty. I think my wireless card is supported in Karmic because it has rt2870sta drivers in the livecd, but for some reason I can't find my connection when I scan for it. Help?
[18:36] <Tired_> same error happened with both grub and grub-pc
[18:36] <Brian___> yes
[18:36] <topyli> joaopinto_e, hi! how may we help you? :)
[18:36] <BUGabundo> topyli: LOLOLOL
[18:36] <joaopinto_e> testing the usual break this string "Preço do pão"
[18:36] <Brian___> when i plug it in or take it out
[18:36] <BUGabundo> joaopinto_e: ahahahhaahahahaah
[18:37] <joaopinto_e> ok
[18:37] <BUGabundo> UTF works
[18:37] <joaopinto_e> looks good so far
[18:37] <BUGabundo> now you made all of them confused :)
[18:37] <BUGabundo> guys, private joke :)
[18:37] <mac_v> tgpraveen: heh , the password part would be solved .. the rest is a bug ;p
[18:37] <tgpraveen> Brian___: ^^
[18:37] <Twigathy> hm, I added a keyboard shortcut for X11VolumeUp and volume down, but xfce seems to be ignoring it...
[18:37] <infecto> hmm, i disable spalsh on boot and seems to help
[18:37] <tgpraveen> file it, hopefully it gets solved in time for final release
[18:37] <Brian___> ??
[18:37] <Twigathy> How do I disable whatever else is hijacking my keyboard's multimedia keys? :)
[18:38] <joaopinto_e> ok, I have hacked /nickserv into pidgin, maybe i should do the same for empathy :P
[18:38] <Twigathy> (vol up/down is a custom script for me)
[18:38] <tgpraveen> Brian___:  mac_v: tgpraveen: heh , the password part would be solved .. the rest is a bug ;p
[18:38] <mac_v> Brian___: unchecking the option will only not prompt for password , but the suspend when cord is pulled is a bug
[18:38] <tgpraveen> joaopinto there is a patch to add some basic commands in bugzilla
[18:38] <tgpraveen> you can add it manually if you can or wait for.29 series
[18:39] <mobyli> joaopinto_e: nickserv messaged me because i entered a password when creating the irc account
[18:39] <mobyli> turns out this nick is no longer connected to my main nick :(
[18:39] <foey> Hello, Im using a Toshiba Satellite Pro laptop and just done a   clean install with 9.10. It appears the battery status is not   being updated. It only updates when the machine comes out of   suspend. At the moment its stuck on 0.5 but if I suspend then   wake it up again, it will update?
[18:40] <KnifeySpooney> Hi, i'm having trouble compiling my wireless driver in Karmic. The same exact driver compiles cleanly in Jaunty. I think my wireless card is supported in Karmic because it has rt2870sta drivers in the livecd, but for some reason I can't find my connection when I scan for it. Help?
[18:41] <tgpraveen> foey:  search for similar bugs if not found file it
[18:43] <Brian___> tgpraveen: shoiuld i file the bug report or not
[18:44] <Brian___> my bat meater changes
[18:45] <tgpraveen> Brian___: yeah I would say the something
[18:45] <mac_v> Brian___: i believe there is already a bug for that... search launchpad or you need to file a bug if it doesnt exist
[18:45] <tgpraveen> search for a similar bug
[18:45] <tgpraveen> if not found then file
[18:45] <tgpraveen> it
[18:45] <tgpraveen> also if you do file it give details of your machine completely as this bug seems to be related to you are hardware
[18:47] <Mike1> why is my 8GB FAT32 USB-Stick not automounted?
[18:47] <foey> tgpraveen : from what ive read, a couple of people have had slightly different issues but solved by using acpi. I currently do not have it installed,
[18:48] <Mike1> manual mount works flawless
[18:48] <Tired_> I still don't understand why I have to boot to the installer to call the install scipts
[18:48] <tgpraveen> Mike1: does it have any autorun viruses. sometimes when my pen drive have viruses then ubuntu isn't able to detect them as normal usb sticks and hence
[18:48] <tgpraveen> doesn't boot them
[18:49] <Tired_> it's almost 2010, you'd think we could write a more versatile installer by now.
[18:49] <Mike1> tgpraveen: i dont think it has
[18:49] <tgpraveen> search for any autorun.inf file in the usb stick if found delete
[18:49] <Mike1> tgpraveen: there is non
[18:49] <Mike1> e
[18:49] <brobostigon> foey: you could try acpi****force at grub.
[18:49] <BUGabundo> Mike1: I had tath up until last nifgr
[18:49] <BUGabundo> last updates seem to have fixed it to me
[18:49] <brobostigon> foey: you could try acpi=force at grub.
[18:50] <Tired_> heck, wubi can install from inside windows, but we still can't install from inside another linux
[18:50] <Mike1> BUGabundo: concerning upgrades … i haven’t restarted since the last one, maybe something’s not interacting correctld
[18:50] <Mike1> *correctly
[18:51] <Mike1> *doing restart*
[18:51] <BUGabundo> bye
[18:51] <Mike1> just my netbook :P
[18:51] <Mike1> not this PC here
[18:51] <BUGabundo> ohhhhh
[18:51] <BUGabundo> and me thinking we would get reed of you :p
[18:52] <Mike1> noooooo i still got another question: how can i disable the nasty splash at startup and shutdown?
[18:53] <BUGabundo> edit grub
[18:53] <BUGabundo> qnd remove splasg ?
[18:53] <BUGabundo> *splash
[18:53] <BUGabundo> on /etc/defaults/grub
[18:54] <Mike1> automount works now :-) thanks anyways
[18:55] <BUGabundo> great
[18:56] <Mike1> BUGabundo: mhh didn’t i remove that splash option? :D *removing it again* and now a `update-grub
[18:56] <BUGabundo> yeah maybe a grub update put it back?
[18:57] <BUGabundo> did you accept the dev version, I guess!
[18:59] <dreamon> during upgrade to Karmic, Errors at -> lirc, mythbuntu-common -> ERORR :root SystemErrror form cache.commit(): installArchives()failed
[18:59] <blueglasses> i have a bug here: processes keep runing after app closing
[19:00] <blueglasses> I first thought it was onlu armagetron but actually its a lot of them, like second life, firefox and others
[19:00] <blueglasses> this means less processing capabilities after app close
[19:01] <blueglasses> this might even be a security problem, since some deamons keep runing witho open ports
[19:01] <Rovanion> Lads, I want to install GNOME to try out the new shell in Kubuntu 9.10. But it tells me that it cannot satisfy dependencies. How do I do it?
[19:02] <BUGabundo> Rovanion: sudo aptitude update ; sudo aptitude safe-upgrade ; sudo aptitude full-upgrade
[19:03] <blueglasses> Rovanion, apt-get install gnome-desktop?
[19:03] <luka> for some reason, i have no sound!!!
[19:03] <luka> pulseaudio seems to be workin ok but i have no sound at all
[19:03] <Rovanion> sudo apt-get install gnome gives me dependencie errors. Will try gnome-desktop blueglasses
[19:03] <blueglasses> luka, check your cables
[19:04] <luka> blueglasses: i have a laptop
[19:04] <BUGabundo> luka: not muted?
[19:04] <luka> but the headphones dont work either
[19:04] <BUGabundo> luka: kill pa and try again
[19:04] <BUGabundo> also see what is pavucontrol showing
[19:04] <blueglasses> luka, find out if your soundcard is supported
[19:04] <luka> they were working ok since last update
[19:04] <tgpraveen> !info pavucontrol
[19:04] <BUGabundo> Rovanion: try what I said
[19:05] <BUGabundo> luka: yeah audio drivers are in the kernel
[19:05] <Rovanion> BUGabundo, Doing that right now, going with blueglasses after that
[19:05] <blueglasses> luka, ok then you may need to reboot
[19:05] <tgpraveen> in karmic what we have is not pavucontrol right. what is that called?
[19:05] <BUGabundo> so lasr update could have broken it
[19:05] <luka> i have rebooted
[19:05] <BUGabundo> tgpraveen: no , you have to install it
[19:05] <hjalti> how is ubuntu 9.10 compared to 9.04 is it any good?
[19:05] <blueglasses> !pavucontrol
[19:05] <luka> the equalizer seems to be working ok i mean i can see how the bars move, but i have no sound neither in the headphones
[19:06] <BUGabundo> but I can't leave without pavu or paman
[19:06] <BUGabundo> hjalti: it is
[19:06] <blueglasses> 9.04 is stable, 9.10 is a bit buggie right now
[19:06] <hjalti> aight..good stuff will try it though after 18 days
[19:06] <BUGabundo> luka: have you swiched output for speakers?
[19:06] <blueglasses> skype works nice :-)
[19:06] <Brian___> has anyone in here noticed firefox 3.5 slowing down by almostt 80%
[19:06] <BUGabundo> luka: see Confuguration tab
[19:07] <blueglasses> me
[19:07] <luka> mm
[19:07] <luka> everything it configured ok
[19:07] <luka> im sure
[19:07] <blueglasses> Brian, check if you have processes running
[19:07] <luka> i have switched from headphones to speakers
[19:07] <blueglasses> Brian, zombie ones
[19:07] <Brian___> in system monitor?
[19:08] <blueglasses> yeap
[19:08] <Brian___> ya i dont
[19:08] <mac_v> BUGabundo: are you sure removing the splash from the grub does not show the xsplash?
[19:08] <Rovanion> Am I right that ubuntu-desktop should be the gnome package around here?
[19:08] <blueglasses> Brain, you might want to try midori
[19:08] <joaopinto> Rovanion, gnome plus ubuntu standard packages
[19:08] <blueglasses> !midori
[19:08] <mac_v> BUGabundo: oh.. oops ,i think it does ;)
[19:08] <blueglasses> !arora
[19:09] <blueglasses> midori is a fast browser
[19:09] <Rovanion> joaopinto, Thanks
[19:09] <mac_v> !find midori
[19:09] <BUGabundo> mac_v: ??
[19:10] <tgpraveen> BUGabundo: so if pavucontrol is not there, then what is the anme of the default in karmic?gnome-volume-control?
[19:10] <mac_v> BUGabundo: i was thinking of something else!... the quiet option 0.o
[19:10] <BUGabundo> tgpraveen: prob
[19:10] <mac_v> tgpraveen: yes
[19:10] <BUGabundo> mac_v: it is the quiet option too, is it not?
[19:10] <BUGabundo> I just remove both
[19:10] <tgpraveen> blueglasses: !info midori
[19:11] <blueglasses> !info midori
[19:11] <mac_v> BUGabundo: i miss the no quiet option :( ... now removing the quiet does not display the messages
[19:11] <blueglasses> kazehakaze is also nice but not currently working in karmic
[19:12] <blueglasses> at least not on my os
[19:12] <Trizicus> I've added the correct ports with UFW and I cannot access my windows network. Does anyone have any suggestions?
[19:12] <blueglasses> info UFW
[19:12] <blueglasses> !info UFW
[19:12] <blueglasses> whats UFW?
[19:13] <Trizicus> !info ufw
[19:13] <yofel_> !info gufw
[19:13] <mac_v> !find UFW
[19:13] <Trizicus> I've added UDP 137 and while watching the log it says that UFW is blocking the port when i have it set to allow
[19:14] <blueglasses> I see... its a net filtering firewall...
[19:14] <mac_v> blueglasses: uncomplicated firewall
[19:14] <Rovanion> Sweet name
[19:14] <luka> i can confirm
[19:15] <Trizicus> the ufw problem?
[19:15] <luka> the sound problem is something in the kernel
[19:15] <blueglasses> Trizicus, google for correct configurations
[19:15] <Trizicus> i have
[19:15] <luka> ive installed kernel 2.6.32 and sound turned on again
[19:15] <blueglasses> Trizicus, ping the windows machine
[19:16] <Trizicus> it responds
[19:16] <BUGabundo> luka: from where?
[19:16] <BUGabundo> we don't provide it
[19:16] <assoguerozen_sx> someone use swiftfox here? it is better than firefox?
[19:16] <blueglasses> Trizicus, also, check you router open ports/redirection
[19:16] <luka> kernel.ubuntu.coom
[19:16] <Trizicus> that works fine when i disable ufw samba works fine
[19:16] <luka> but, something in the new kernel
[19:16] <luka> its wrong
[19:16] <luka> i had no sound until i installed new kernel
[19:17] <BUGabundo> assoguerozen_sx: Firefox 3.7 and Chromium-Dev beats them all !!
[19:17] <blueglasses> Trizicus, windows network might require adicional ports open
[19:17] <tgpraveen> luka: then definetly file a bug stating that it happens. maybe some one can backport the fix.
[19:17] <Trizicus> i have all required ports open
[19:17] <assoguerozen_sx> BUGabundo firefox 3.7 doesnt exists
[19:17] <Trizicus> 135-139/455
[19:17] <Trizicus> 445*
[19:17] <tgpraveen> assoguerozen_sx: it dos
[19:18] <billybigrigger> BUGabundo, ola
[19:18] <tgpraveen> does .its the current testing
[19:18] <BUGabundo> assoguerozen_sx: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.3a1pre) Gecko/20091009 Ubuntu/9.10 (karmic) Minefield/3.7a1pre ID:20091009182248
[19:18] <luka> well i can say what my audo card is
[19:18] <tgpraveen> BUGabundo: hey
[19:18] <BUGabundo> are you sure?!?
[19:18] <BUGabundo> tgpraveen: billybigrigger you guys *just* noticed me ?!?! weird
[19:18] <assoguerozen_sx> mine is 3.5.3 here =/
[19:19] <BUGabundo> assoguerozen_sx: you are sloowwwww
[19:19] <blueglasses> Trizicus, you must be on the same  workgroup, check your samba.conf
[19:19] <ActionParsnip> assoguerozen_sx: swiftfox is pretty decent, kazehakase is light too
[19:19] <billybigrigger> BUGabundo, noticed you? no i just got here
[19:19] <JackD> can anyone tell me how 9.10 starts gdm at boot ? because the rc.d seems to play no part in it
[19:19] <tgpraveen> hehe no when billybigrigger said hello I remembered to say . though I meant to say it earlier
[19:19] <BUGabundo> ahh
[19:19] <billybigrigger> :P
[19:19] <BUGabundo> then I missed you billybigrigger lol
[19:19] <billybigrigger> i guess hah
[19:19] <Trizicus> blueglasses: I use the network option in places and choose the workgroup to use and it finds nothing when ufw is enabled
[19:19] <assoguerozen_sx> BUGabundo gimme the package name please
[19:19] <BUGabundo> firefox-3.7
[19:19] <BUGabundo> lolol
[19:19] <BUGabundo> easy!!!
[19:20] <tgpraveen> !info firefox-3.7
[19:20] <BUGabundo> its on ubuntu mozilla team daily PPA
[19:20] <BUGabundo> tgpraveen: ^^^^^^^^
[19:20] <tgpraveen> kk
[19:20] <BUGabundo> https://launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa
[19:20] <assoguerozen_sx> man
[19:20] <assoguerozen_sx> oh
[19:20] <BUGabundo> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa
[19:20] <assoguerozen_sx> better now =]
[19:20] <blueglasses> Trizicus, my guess is rpc is closed, or maybe some other ports you need
[19:20] <johnmn3> hello
[19:20] <assoguerozen_sx> BUGabundo thx
[19:20] <johnmn3> is xfix not in koala?
[19:21] <Trizicus> i'll try to enable that one
[19:21] <Nattgew> JackD: I'm not really sure what you're asking... maybe you're looking for /etc/init/gdm.conf?
[19:21] <dreamon> After a fault upgrade .. Ubuntu doesnt start anymore..  udevadm trigger is not permitted while udev is onconfigured.3 -> Droped to BusyBox.
[19:21] <johnmn3> my X is borked
[19:21] <Brian___> does anyone in here prefer empathy over pidgin or emense
[19:21] <blueglasses> Trizicus, doublecheck your ufw configuration, monitor what happens when you try to conect, use netstat or network manager
[19:22] <ActionParsnip> johnmn3: you can run: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg    in a root recovery console
[19:22] <billybigrigger> Brian___, empathy works for me
[19:22] <Trizicus> i have rpc port enabled and when i try to connect it says UFW blocked the ports i'm allowing
[19:22] <billybigrigger> i just use it for msn and google talk
[19:22] <johnmn3> ActionParsnip: just the advice I was looking for.. will try
[19:22] <billybigrigger> works the same as pidgin imo
[19:22] <Nattgew> has anyone else had problems with update manager? mine is being weird since last night and not showing the window that shows progress of updates... even though it does them.
[19:22] <blueglasses> Trizicus, also try firestarter instead of gufw
[19:23] <dreamon> Gave up waiting for root device .. ups
[19:23] <blueglasses> with firestarter you can see what is happening
[19:23] <johnmn3> once elinks is done installing.. btw, is there a better text browser than elinks?
[19:23] <blueglasses> or, check your gufw logs
[19:23] <jbicha> personally, I eagerly await when empathy will fix bug 397504
[19:24] <durt> johnmn3, I use links2
[19:24] <blueglasses> Trizicus, if gufw blocks it, then you must change some rule
[19:24] <johnmn3> empathy wouldn't do irc for me, off an alpha koala
[19:25] <johnmn3> durt: you like it better than elinks?
[19:25] <Trizicus> i think it is a bug tbh
[19:25] <BUGabundo> johnmn3: is now post beta. not alpha
[19:25] <blueglasses> i think the best msn clients are pidgin, kopete, amsn
[19:26] <johnmn3> BUGabundo: I know, too bad my satellite connection pulls updates at 1 KB a second, literally
[19:26] <blueglasses> you can also use emessene, which is quite a clone :)
[19:26] <tgpraveen> blueglasses: empathy is very soon like in the next 1 month or so about to gain a/v support file transfer and invisbile ,etc over msn
[19:26] <JackD> @ Nattgew, as a rule /etc/init.d/gdm starts gdm at boot but it seems not in 9.10. i don't want the gui to start at boot
[19:26] <cybersplice> johnmn3, odd. satellite connections are usually high bandwidth high latency.
[19:27] <blueglasses> great! but we should all quit msn and star to use skype lol
[19:27] <johnmn3> cybersplice: not that kind of satellite.. this is in afghanistan
[19:27] <cybersplice> johnmn3: Ah. Bandwidth is probably being used for elint. nm.
[19:27] <BUGabundo> johnmn3: zsync or rsync! saves you're a lot of BW
[19:28] <blueglasses> I personally think we should all use a twitter client to replace msn :D
[19:28] <cybersplice> johnmn3: might be a good idea to set up a local repo. :D
[19:28]  * BUGabundo slaps blueglasses
[19:28] <johnmn3> BUGabundo: tried it.. if zsyng resumed after failed connection, from where it left, I'd be in business
[19:28] <johnmn3> cybersplice: I'd like too.. it'd take a few months though
[19:28] <BUGabundo> johnmn3: rsync does :)
[19:28] <blueglasses> we just need an encrypted twitter client lol
[19:29]  * blueglasses bumps BUGabundo on the head with a 5 pounds Unix manual lol
[19:30] <BUGabundo> hey that hurs
[19:30] <rexterd> is it posssible to run gtkdialog3 in ubuntu?
[19:30] <BUGabundo> blueglasses: twitter sucks! its close source! we are better of on a StatusNet server, like identica or brainbird.net
[19:30] <necromnicon> is there a way to install pacman in ubuntu?
[19:31] <rockrat> wine ?
[19:31] <johnmn3> rockrat: probably not pacman the game ;)
[19:31] <JackD> @necromnicon,  run arch in a vm ?)
[19:32] <necromnicon> no pacman the package manager
[19:32] <rockrat> lol
[19:32] <rockrat> ok
[19:32] <tgpraveen> !info chromium
[19:32] <davisc> necromnicon: apt-get install pacman
[19:32] <tgpraveen> is chromium browser in repos or not?
[19:32] <tgpraveen> BUGabundo: ^^?
[19:33] <assoguerozen_sx> lets try firefox 3.7 then
[19:33]  * BUGabundo slaps tgpraveen
[19:33] <BUGabundo> dude chromium-*BROWSER*
[19:33] <assoguerozen_sx> i have xlrunner 1.9.0, 1.9.1 and now getting 1.9.3 here lol
[19:33] <Nattgew> JackD: you can edit /etc/init/gdm.conf... maybe comment out the stop and start lines
[19:33] <tgpraveen> !info chromium-browser
[19:33] <necromnicon> wow i had no idea pacman was in the repos....  thanks
[19:34] <BUGabundo> tgpraveen: umm
[19:34] <JackD> necromnicon: it isn't
[19:34] <tgpraveen> BUGabundo: ^^?
[19:34] <BUGabundo> it should be in the archive
[19:34] <JackD> that pacman isn't the pacman you want
[19:34]  * tgpraveen slaps BUGabundo back
[19:34] <BUGabundo> seems its not
[19:34] <BUGabundo> I have it from PPA
[19:34] <tgpraveen> irmemebr now someone saying it isn'tthough it should have been
[19:34] <BUGabundo> AFAIK it was going in
[19:34] <BUGabundo> I'll ask FTA
[19:34] <tgpraveen> k
[19:34] <necromnicon> JackD: ah your right
[19:35] <Brian___> is there a way to get the terminal to pop open with a keybinding
[19:35] <mauri> is there a program to perform a dvd movie backup?
[19:36] <blueglasses> BUGabundo, yep. true.
[19:36] <penguin42> Brian___: Yes
[19:36] <penguin42> Brian___: If you go to system->preferences->Keyboard shortcut there's an entry for 'Run a terminal' that's currently disabled, just give it a binding
[19:36] <BUGabundo> tgpraveen: (07:36:08 PM) fta: no, it was supposed to enter when it's ready
[19:37] <tgpraveen> what does when it's ready mean?
[19:37] <tgpraveen> it's already at v3 in windows.
[19:37] <BUGabundo> and 4 dev is here
[19:37] <Brian___> penguin42: thanks have you ever tried guake terminal
[19:37] <rxd> i want to make a script with gui, what program do i need to install
[19:37] <tgpraveen> so chromium using same code base is supposed to eb that sttable
[19:37] <BUGabundo>   Installed: 4.0.222.3~svn20091009r28536-0ubuntu1~ucd1
[19:37] <penguin42> Brian___: Never heard of it
[19:37] <tgpraveen> I wish it wa in
[19:37] <Brian___> google it i think you may like it
[19:38] <tgpraveen> heck they even had a blueprint and a UDS session discussing chrome vs ff
[19:38] <johnni> Anyone here used jedit before?
[19:39]  * penguin42 generally likes chromium, although I miss ff's ad blocker
[19:39] <necromnicon> Brian___: i prefer tilda to guake
[19:39] <johnmn3> so, I got some error about libglibc or something
[19:39] <Brian___> necromnicon: why
[19:40] <tgpraveen> any coder here? what IDE do you use for c/c++?
[19:40] <necromnicon> more configurable, supports transpancy, etc
[19:40] <tgpraveen> eclipse?gedit+gcc??
[19:40] <tgpraveen> vim?emacs?
[19:41] <tgpraveen> !info linus
[19:41] <blueglasses> !torvald
[19:41] <blueglasses> !info torvald
[19:41] <penguin42> tgpraveen: I tend to use lots of vi's in terminals, but I'm pretty old school
[19:42] <ActionParsnip> !botabuse | blueglasses
[19:42] <tgpraveen> um I am "new" school and a noob in this field so what wouold one recommend
[19:43] <penguin42> well I do like vi, but it takes some getting used to; the first 5 years or so can be a bit confusing
[19:43] <vega-> has something replaced the good old sysklogd in karmic?
[19:43] <IndyGunFreak> how do you edit grub in 9.10?
[19:43] <IndyGunFreak> its obviously not /boot/grub/menu.lst
[19:43] <JackD> grub.cfg
[19:43] <BUGabundo> thanks ActionParsnip
[19:43] <IndyGunFreak> thanks
[19:44] <ActionParsnip> BUGabundo: np bro :)
[19:44] <vega-> IndyGunFreak: suggested reading: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2
[19:45] <tgpraveen> penguin42: "5 years" damn that is a LONG time
[19:45] <IndyGunFreak> thanks
[19:45] <mostafa_> ActionParsnip: hey dude can you help me how to ignore
[19:45] <vega-> i gather "rsyslog" is the default in karmic then?
[19:45] <tgpraveen> does no one recommend something like eclipse/anjuta?
[19:45] <penguin42> tgpraveen: I'm kind of joking :-) But vi isn't easy to learn - it's pretty powerful though - I'm not sure I'd recommend it for a new guy
[19:45] <tgpraveen> penguin42: what would you recommend?
[19:46] <tgpraveen> any particuler drawbacks of gui ide like anjuta,etc?
[19:46] <penguin42> tgpraveen: I'm not sure these days - you see I still use vi :-)
[19:46] <mostafa_> ActionParsnip: when I use diff command i wanna ignore the files are not different
[19:47] <mostafa_> ActionParsnip: and ignore them just make a differ output between the different files
[19:47] <mostafa_> can any one help me?
[19:47] <AlanBell> mostafa_: is this a karmic specific question?
[19:48] <AlanBell> mostafa_: are you saying the behavior has changed in karmic compared to Jaunty?
[19:48] <mostafa_> no you mean i should say this in any other channel?
[19:49] <mostafa_> AlanBell: bro this is about linux
[19:49] <AlanBell> mostafa_: you would probably get a better answer in #ubuntu or the ubuntu channel for your locality
[19:49] <mostafa_> AlanBell: how can I ask them, guide me plz?
[19:49] <mostafa_> ok
[19:49] <AlanBell> mostafa_: what country/language do you prefer?
[19:49] <ActionParsnip> !ide | tgpraveen
[19:50] <mostafa_> AlanBell: english
[19:50] <AlanBell> #ubuntu-uk might be a good place then
[19:50] <AlanBell> or #ubuntu
[19:51] <mostafa_> AlanBell: ^-^ hehe thnx 4 your help
[19:51] <AlanBell> no problem
[19:51] <tgpraveen> !info gvim
[19:52] <tgpraveen> ActionParsnip: have you ever used gvim?
[19:52] <yofel> !info vim-gnome
[19:52] <Brian___> anyone know what tor is
[19:52] <Brian___> i diont understand the description
[19:52] <AlanBell> !info tor
[19:52] <AlanBell> it is an anonymising proxy
[19:53] <IndyGunFreak> isn't it some sort of proxy server?
[19:53] <yofel> !info tor intrepid
[19:53] <AlanBell> on steroids
[19:53] <IndyGunFreak> !tor
[19:53] <mauri> how is it possibile to decrypt a movie dvd
[19:53] <tgpraveen> !info handbrake
[19:53] <IndyGunFreak> mauri, you mean a commercial one?.. use libdvdccss?
[19:53] <AlanBell> !media
[19:53] <rob1> I'm trying to get Karmic to boot... I'm getting error 15 from grub. I'm on the live CD right now and trying to run update-grub, but it doesnt appear to be running correctly http://pastebin.com/m12c575e8
[19:54] <mauri> IndyGunFreak: which program having gui may I use?
[19:54] <tgpraveen>  component main, is extra <--- what does this meam?
[19:54] <IndyGunFreak> mauri, you mean to watch the DVD?
[19:54] <tgpraveen> *mean
[19:55] <tgpraveen> mauri: you want to rip it? ie convert to avi?
[19:55] <IndyGunFreak> thats what i'm trying to figure out as well.
[19:55] <AlanBell> rob1: interesting, do you have regular hard drives or something more complicated?
[19:55] <necromnicon> when compiling a program from source what is the command to package it into a deb?
[19:55] <mauri> IndyGunFreak: I want a dvd backup.... or dvd 9 to 5 copy
[19:55] <rob1> AlanBell, 3 drives, all SATA. nothing crazy
[19:56] <mac__v> JackD, IndyGunFreak: should not edit grub.cfg
[19:56] <IndyGunFreak> isn't there a program called k9copy thatdoes that?
[19:56] <mac__v>  !grub2 | IndyGunFreak
[19:56] <yofel> necromnicon: that's a bit more complicated
[19:56] <yofel> !packaging | necromnicon
[19:56] <IndyGunFreak> mac__v, yeah i read it.. i don't like it.
[19:56] <davisc> rob1: Is /proc mounted?
[19:56] <duffydack> necromnicon, checkinstall
[19:56] <JackD> grub2 over complicates things ;)
[19:56] <yofel> necromnicon: there is 'checkinstall' though
[19:57] <rob1> davisc, yea looks fine
[19:57] <rob1> davisc, im chroot'd in to the install
[19:57] <IndyGunFreak> JackD, i have to agree.
[19:57] <mac__v> JackD: IndyGunFreak: the price we pay for more features ;p
[19:57] <rob1> davisc, ahh looks like that may be the problem
[19:58] <necromnicon> thanks checkinstall is what i was looking for
[19:58] <rob1> davisc, fdisk -l returns cannot open /proc/partitions
[19:58] <IndyGunFreak> mac__v, lol, its a freaking menu.. how many features do you need?..
[19:58] <davisc> rob1: Yeah, /proc needs to be visible
[19:58] <rob1> davisc, how do I do that?
[19:58] <mac__v> IndyGunFreak: ;) well some seem to have special needs
[19:58] <IndyGunFreak> i guess/
[19:59] <davisc> rob1: Can you mount proc in the chroot
[20:01] <rob1> davisc, yea I did mount /proc . Still erroring out on update-grub
[20:01] <davisc> Hmmmm....
[20:06] <rob1> !grub2
[20:07] <Brian___> i want to be able to backup my computer to the internet so if i get a crash or something ill be able to restore from the net. i installed sbackup and it says "use a remote directory (ssh or ftp) how do i do that
[20:07] <Brian___> \where can i find a internet storeage server
[20:07] <IndyGunFreak> Brian___, that will probalby be incredibly expensive... you'd probably be bette to take your system, make an image of the drive, and save the image to an external hard drive
[20:08] <Brian___> ok
[20:08] <Brian___> i have a external hd
[20:08] <JackD> Brian___: us rsync to a nfs server
[20:09] <IndyGunFreak> u could also use clonezilla to clone the drive to the external drive
[20:09] <JackD> rsync will let you upload new snapshots daily and will only upload files that have changed, cuts down no end on bandwidth usage
[20:10]  * duffydack <3 clonezilla
[20:13] <Brian___> is clonezilla in the repo
[20:13] <ActionParsnip> !info clonezilla
[20:14] <ActionParsnip> !clonezilla
[20:14] <BUGabundo> Brian___: No
[20:14] <BUGabundo> its a standalone app / distro
[20:14] <BUGabundo> you mean partimage ?
[20:14] <duffydack> Brian___, its a livecd/liveusb
[20:14] <EvilAIM> Ugh
[20:14] <EvilAIM> time to upgrade again
[20:15] <Brian___> im confused   i though it was a backup app
[20:15] <joaopinto> BUGabundo, clonezilla is not a standalone app/ distro
[20:15] <BUGabundo> yes it is :)
[20:15] <BUGabundo> a collection of app
[20:15] <BUGabundo> scripted to do a simple task
[20:15] <joaopinto> Brian___, its an application used for disk cloning
[20:15] <EvilAIM> haha
[20:15] <EvilAIM> here we go
[20:15] <BUGabundo> backup, recover, install
[20:16] <BUGabundo> joaopinto clonezilla.org
[20:16] <joaopinto> BUGabundo, I Am familiar with it, it could be defined as single app from a purpose pesective, composed of multilple components
[20:16] <joaopinto> you don't have much use for any of those components isolated
[20:16] <BUGabundo> that's what I said!
[20:16] <simonc_67> Hi Gang, New to this so apologize in advance for any goofs. Having problems with the karmic installer on my Dell Optiplex 740 AMD64 Machine at work. Jaunty mini Iso works fine but Karmic mini 64 bit installer hangs... Get the initrd .... then ready. then white cursor just flashes on black background. Any ideas?
[20:17] <joaopinto> BUGabundo, i don't see why you classify it as a "stanadlone"
[20:17] <joaopinto> you could use clonezilla for a massive ubuntu deployment, assuming it's properly integrated :P
[20:18] <BUGabundo> I do :)
[20:18] <Brian___> if i just backup to a external hd can i get to automaticly backup when i plug in my external hd?
[20:19] <guntbert> simonc_67: did you md5sum check your iso-image?
[20:19] <Brian___> that would be handy
[20:19] <joaopinto> Brian___, you are looking for a desktop type backup system, that is not the purpose of clonezilla
[20:19] <simonc_67> yes. It needs a hard boot to recover. I initially tried the desktop images. An upgrade from jaunty to karmic works too.
[20:20] <JackD> Brian___: rsync is all you require to backup to a external hd tbh
[20:20] <Brian___> joaopinto: what is a good app to backup
[20:20] <KnifeySpooney> How do I modify /boot/grub/grub.cfg for Grub2? I tried directly editing it in gedit under sudo and it says i'm trying to modify a read-only disk
[20:20] <joaopinto> Brian___, I am familiar with backup graphical apps, i usually use rsync with some sort of scripting
[20:21] <joaopinto> KnifeySpooney, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2
[20:23] <Brian___> i want a easy to use app to where when its time to restore my system i want to be able to click restore and let it do its magic what app wouold let me do this
[20:23] <joaopinto> Brian___, try http://code.google.com/p/flyback/
[20:24] <JackD> grsync ;)
[20:24] <yml> hello I am trying to give a try to the beta of remix on an acer apsire one
[20:24] <BUGabundo> dinner bbl
[20:24] <duffydack> Brian___, depends wether you want to restore just files/folders or a complete system/partitions like 'ghost'
[20:25] <yml> but I am stopped at the very beginning of this process : How to convert an iso 2 img ? because image writer only want to have an .img as far as I can tell.
[20:25] <duffydack> Brian___, I dont need to really backup that often but when I do I use clonezilla and just do the whole kaboodle in case i get some hd failure..then i can just restore to a new hd
[20:26] <Brian___> ok
[20:26] <dtchen> yml: it really doesn't matter; both are writeable. you can either use dd or the new (in Karmic) usb-creator.
[20:26] <duffydack> yml, for what exactly.
[20:26] <wirechief_> Brian___: use virtualbox
[20:27] <joaopinto> wirechief_, virtualbos is not a backup app
[20:27] <joaopinto> box
[20:27] <duffydack> dtchen, remember that patch you gave me regarding sound and only the amplified outputs work, well it didnt work for me..
[20:27] <wirechief_> thats funny ive been using it for over a year hahaha.
[20:28] <wirechief_> along with rsync
[20:28] <BluesKaj> what's funny about that ?
[20:29] <wirechief_> i dont know it works well for a backup ...
[20:29] <joaopinto> wirechief_, that question was not wether you use virtualbox and wether you can backup virtualbox or not, the question was how to do regular backups from a system
[20:29] <Brian___> how can you backup with a virtual computyer
[20:29] <Brian___> that makes zero sence
[20:29] <dtchen> duffydack: i don't remember that patch
[20:29] <JackD> cron job and rsync what more would you require ?
[20:30] <dtchen> duffydack: too many things have changed in the past two months
[20:30] <duffydack> dtchen, still REALLY loud unless set to near enough mute, and using the slider changes the values for Master, Master Mono(my subwoof) and PCM.  The only way to use karmic for me is to use the Kde variety as its kmix is better for me.
[20:30] <wirechief_> JackD well its a learning experience, and for me i havent had to use anything but those.
[20:31] <dtchen> duffydack: did you file a bug about this?
[20:31] <duffydack> dtchen, I will give a go once its final anyway, even tho you said it will never be fixed..
[20:31] <joaopinto> JackD, he wants a graphical app, usinc rsync and cron requires some more know-how
[20:31] <JackD> grsync is graphical
[20:31] <duffydack> dtchen, nope, my bad..
[20:31] <JackD> gtk front end for it
[20:31] <dtchen> duffydack: i'm happy to describe the source code changes necessary if you want to make them yourself and submit them as a patch
[20:32] <wirechief_> i havent uses grsync yet.
[20:33] <wirechief_> i run daily backups on my home and export the entire machine for complete backups.
[20:33] <yml> dtchen: thank you I will try usb-creator instead of usb-imagewriter
[20:34] <yml> duffydack: to create a bootable usb key
[20:35] <dreamon> After a fault upgrade .. Ubuntu doesnt start anymore..  udevadm trigger is not permitted while udev is onconfigured.3 -> Droped to BusyBox. ONLY KERNEL 2.6.31.7-RT WORKS.
[20:37] <jemark> what about this one? http://www.le-web.org/back-in-time/
[20:39] <duffydack> dtchen, I applied the 'patch' you suggested before, which was just changing the PCM line which I cant remember lol, it didnt change anything for me.  Id like the non amplified outputs to work if nothing else.  I`m not using it at the moment anyway to make any changes.  I will once final and go from there.
[20:41] <dtchen> duyyou need to tell me which mixer elements you have to change in order for the audio to be bearable
[20:41] <dtchen> duffydack: ^
[20:43] <skrite_> is there a way to use xinerama only when in a desktop environment and not while in like a 3D game, like a switch somewhere?
[20:46] <billybigrigger> haha
[20:46] <billybigrigger> i just picked up a 30 pack of 8x dvd+r dl verbatims for $18.99 canadian, regular $79.99
[20:48] <duffydack> dtchen, only the LFE amplified output uses master mono (my subwoofer in my lappy.. I have an inspiron 9100 btw and its great on jaunty) but when I use the volume slider in gnome or press the vol up/down media keys on my laptop, the woofer changes (I want it to stay put once ive set it right) also the master channel and pcm move..  its ok dude,  I`ll give you more info when I install it again. thanks
[20:52] <dtchen> duffydack: oh, that's straightforward, then
[20:52] <dtchen> duffydack: you just also need to set volume = ignore for [Master Mono]
[20:53] <duffydack> dtchen,  doh..   ok  i`ll reinstall it when I get time  and try that out.. what was the location of the file I have to modify ? i cant remember
[20:54] <duffydack> dtchen, any solution to it not working without using amplified outputs?
[20:54] <mac_v> dtchen: hi... is there a bug regarding clicks heard during video playback? especially vlc
[20:54] <xcdghjm> Pulseaudio is being nothing but a nuisance on one of my PCs. How do I disable it without forgoing my volume applet?
[20:54] <dtchen> duffydack: see /usr/share/pulseaudio/alsa-mixer/paths/analog-output-lfe-on-mono.conf
[20:54] <duffydack> dtchen, ive got it running on my netbook, and its fantastic..  there are no amplified outputs to choose, just 1 normal output and its fine.
[20:55] <xcdghjm> duffydack: What have you got running on your netbook?
[20:55] <dtchen> mac_v: sure. is vlc's pulseaudio output being used?
[20:56] <mac_v> dtchen: i think so... how do i check?
[20:56] <dtchen> mac_v: you should be able to set it in vlc's preferences. i don't have vlc installed.
[20:56] <duffydack> xcdghjm, karmic beta all updated regularly..   UNR version
[20:58] <mac_v> dtchen: hmm... it was set to default , now i'v set it as pulseaudio... will test it again...
[20:58] <duffydack> dtchen, I dont have it on to look at the moment, what is in there?
[20:59] <dtchen> duffydack: what you need to change is in that file
[21:00] <duffydack> dtchen,  ok
[21:02] <duffydack> dtchen, but i`ll still be stuck with using amplified output and I dont like that idea.. the audible volume when even at less than half will surely fry my speakers and deafen me..
[21:03] <dtchen> duffydack: we can attempt to work around your craptastic hardware using a configuration setting, but obviously not all hardware uses that setting
[21:05] <duffydack> dtchen, lol.  well sound is great since ive been using ubuntu (edgy).  Kubuntu 9.10 is more like the sound/mixer I want but I just dont like KDE.  Thanks for your time.
[21:05] <joaopinto> dtchen, are there any instructions maybe on the wiki on how to disable pulseaudio for karmic describing the limitations from such change ? It's becoming a FAQ
[21:06] <dtchen> joaopinto: probably - or do you mean written by me?
[21:07] <dtchen> i can't believe this question continues to surface. i've posted to several e-mail lists, forums, blogs, tweets, etc., all detailing how to do it
[21:07] <joaopinto> dtchen, by anyone as long it works, I couldn't find one, and I guess you are the best person to provide a proper way
[21:07] <dtchen> i guess people just can't friggin read.
[21:07] <dtchen> sigh.
[21:07] <billybigrigger> hehe
[21:07]  * BUGabundo is back
[21:08] <billybigrigger> people can read, they're just lazy
[21:08] <matrixblue> I installed the Karmic beta today and upgraded all packages and my sounds doesn't work..any idea guys?
[21:08] <Drop_tables> sudo apt-get purge pulseaudio
[21:08] <BUGabundo> Drop_tables: that's aptitude
[21:08] <BUGabundo> for apt-get you need remove --purge
[21:09] <DarthArachides> autocomplete for filenames-with-space works in bash now.
[21:09] <DarthArachides> BUGabundo: nope, it works in apt-get too.
[21:09] <dtchen> joaopinto: touch $HOME/.pulse_a11y_nostart ; echo autospawn = no|tee -a ~/.pulse/client.conf ; killall pulseaudio
[21:09] <DarthArachides> but does autocomplete for scp work again yet?
[21:09] <matrixblue> Drop_tables, were you talking to me just now?
[21:09] <BUGabundo> does it?
[21:09] <BUGabundo> lolol
[21:09] <joaopinto> dtchen, thks, testing and documenting
[21:09] <assoguerozen_sx> what are bests ppas for karmic?
[21:09] <Drop_tables> Everyone. Removing pulseaudio will solve all your problems, plus you'll get a free race car
[21:09] <IdleOne> assoguerozen_sx: best? the one's you prefer and work best for you
[21:10] <matrixblue> Drop_tables, thanks I'll do that now
[21:10] <assoguerozen_sx> i have just mozilla daily ppa here
[21:10] <dtchen> Drop_tables: i hear there're a toaster and a pony involved, too!
[21:10] <xcdghjm> FFS I hate how troublesome Pulseaudio is.
[21:10] <dtchen> xcdghjm: i do, too
[21:10] <xcdghjm> It makes my games crash, it goes to 100% CPU at times, it can't handle my subwoofer, sometimes the sound goes high pitch.
[21:10] <joaopinto> dtchen, and thanks for your patient to deal with this anti-PA feedback inverse to your great work
[21:11] <xcdghjm> How do I remove it in Karmic without losing desktop integration?
[21:11] <dtchen> xcdghjm: scroll up, please.
[21:11] <dtchen> clearly your client was IN THE CHANNEL when i JUST typed how to disable PA.
[21:11] <dtchen> READ, PEOPLE. READ.
[21:12] <wastrel> i'm illiterate ;__;
[21:12] <matrixblue> Drop_tables, do I have to reboot now?
[21:12] <IdleOne> I sense sarcasm in joaopinto's last comment :)
[21:12] <mostafa_> when I apply the patch this error happend "Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected!  Assume -R?" what is my problem?
[21:12] <dtchen> mostafa_: the patch is already applied. it's asking you if you want to revert it
[21:13] <Drop_tables> Matrixblue: Very likey. eg: skype wouldn't detect my microphone at all until after reboot
[21:13] <joaopinto> IdleOne, it's not, I have no problems with PA, and event I did I understand the tecnhical reasons about the decision to keep with it, I am getting a bit tired of anti* movements
[21:13] <xcdghjm> dtchen: What time?
[21:13] <mostafa_> dtchen: how did it check that it applied?
[21:13] <dtchen> xcdghjm: four minutes ago.
[21:13] <xcdghjm> dtchen: What time exactly?
[21:13] <dtchen> xcdghjm: according to my client, 16:09
[21:13] <xcdghjm> 21:09:15?
[21:14] <xcdghjm> dtchen: But won't that break my volume applet?
[21:14] <IdleOne> joaopinto: yes I hear you.
[21:14] <dtchen> xcdghjm: that's not pulseaudio's fault if it does.
[21:15] <xcdghjm> dtchen: I tried killing pulseaudio and the volume applet doesn't work any more.
[21:15] <dtchen> xcdghjm: also, it doesn't break my volume applet; YMMV
[21:15] <xcdghjm> dtchen: Nethertheless, I like having a volume applet very much.
[21:15] <dtchen> file a bug against gnome-media, then
[21:15] <Kraln> So, I made a blog post about my karmic experiences with gma500 on a dell mini 10: http://www.kraln.com/?p=261
[21:15] <dtchen> for the last time, it's not a PulseAudio bug.
[21:15] <JanC> dtchen: I think many of the "pulseadio bugs" aren't pulseaudio's fault to begin with  ;)
[21:15] <xcdghjm> dtchen: You're using the default Gnome applet?
[21:16] <Drop_tables> Talking about volume applet; Is the inverted mouse wheel thing fixed yet?
[21:16] <vega-> xcdghjm: have you tried configuring your volume applet to use alsa? or use another applet that uses plain alsa?
[21:16] <joaopinto> people just renamed the sound problems that we had prior to PA to "PA"
[21:16] <xcdghjm> I haven't tried it recently so I'll try it again now.
[21:16] <Kraln> eh, pulseaudio can be kind of buggy sometimes ;)
[21:17] <joaopinto> Kraln, what evidences do you have about that ? which bugs nrs are you refering to ?
[21:17] <JanC> Kraln: there are some bugs that are PA's fault, sure, but many are also PA exposing driver & application bugs
[21:17] <Kraln> JanC: oh, no doubt
[21:17] <matrixblue> Drop_tables, purge pulseaudio and sound doesn't work. Not the volume control doesn't appear on the panel either
[21:18] <dtchen> plainly, PA has bugs. ALSA has bugs. There are plenty enough to go around, but the trend to blame everything on PA is a bit overkill.
[21:18] <Kraln> joaopinto: I have some situations in which pulseaudio will hang and eat 100% cpu.
[21:18] <billybigrigger> does anyone here have problems with message filters in evolution?
[21:18] <joaopinto> matrixblue, do you want to remove pulseaudio ?
[21:18] <Duskin> hi all
[21:18] <xcdghjm> Me too with the 100% CPU
[21:18] <matrixblue> joaopinto, no I just wanted my sound to work
[21:19] <joaopinto> !sound | matrixblue
[21:19] <dtchen> xcdghjm: firstly, _when_ are you experincing it?
[21:19] <Duskin> anyone know if 9.10 is planning on being developed for PPC?
[21:19] <dtchen> experiencing*
[21:19] <dtchen> Duskin: not officially supported. See ports.
[21:19] <dtchen> Duskin: i.e., "best effort"
[21:19] <dtchen> Duskin: i.e., /join #ubuntu-ports
[21:20] <xcdghjm> dtchen: Yeah, I need to undo that command.
[21:20] <Duskin> dtchen: thanks
[21:21] <xcdghjm> joaopinto: Is it really as easy as file>Change device?
[21:22] <xcdghjm> joaopinto: Double clicking on the volume control does nothing.
[21:22] <joaopinto> xcdghjm, the factoid needs to be updated :P
[21:22] <duffydack> that is a little outdated from ubottu since double clicking volume mutes it
[21:22] <salty-horse> hi. is there a reason why ctrl+alt+1..4 give me blank screen with green stripes on top instead of a terminal?
[21:22] <xcdghjm> Arghhhh I have no volume control without Pulseaudio!
[21:22] <xcdghjm> salty-horse: Nvidia?
[21:22] <mercutio22> empathy seldom succeeds in connecting to MSN
[21:22] <salty-horse> xcdghjm, yes
[21:22] <salty-horse> xcdghjm, bug?
[21:23] <xcdghjm> salty-horse: I have the same issue.
[21:23] <salty-horse> do you know if it's a known problem?
[21:23] <salty-horse> what makes you think it's nvidia?
[21:23] <xcdghjm> salty-horse: It seems like an Nvidia problem.
[21:23] <xcdghjm> salty-horse: I don't really care, though.
[21:24] <xcdghjm> I just want to get my fucking sound to be cooperative.
[21:24] <matrixblue> Nothing is showing up under the Hardware tab in Sound Preferences
[21:24] <xcdghjm> Only one of my devices is showing up in my hardware tab.
[21:24] <xcdghjm> And not the one I use.
[21:25] <joaopinto> mercutio22, there is a bug report about that, not sure it's the same buf affecting you
[21:25] <xcdghjm> Hmmmmm apt-get install gnome-alsamixer?
[21:25] <matrixblue> xcdghjm, I think we're have the same problem
[21:26] <necromnicon> any way to get a system wide eq with gui?
[21:26] <dtchen> xcdghjm: or gamix
[21:26] <dtchen> xcdghjm: or just use alsamixer or amixer
[21:26] <xcdghjm> dtchen: I'm using gamix but it sucks.
[21:26] <dtchen> "sucks"?
[21:26] <xcdghjm> I want an applet in my panel!
[21:26] <dtchen> FFS.
[21:26] <dtchen> i want a friggin pony, too.
[21:26] <xcdghjm> And how do I add gnome-alsamixer to my panel?
[21:27] <topyli> xcdghjm, what you want is a stable distribution like hardy
[21:27] <xcdghjm> topyli: I'm not downgrading now.
[21:27] <xcdghjm> topyli: But when 10.04 comes around, I'm going to stick with it.
[21:28] <duffydack> xcdghjm, try the kubuntu version..
[21:28] <xcdghjm> Oh, gnome-alsamixer isn't an applet thingy.
[21:28] <xcdghjm> duffydack: I don't like KDE4
[21:29] <duffydack> xcdghjm, me neither. ok
[21:29] <arielco> Hello. I'm trying to install mc, but it aptitude can't find it. Was it removed?
[21:29] <xcdghjm> I guess I'll have to stick with gamix for now. :(
[21:29] <xcdghjm> With buggy Pulseaudio.
[21:30] <topyli> xcdghjm, that's alright. the point is, don't use +1 if you'e only going to whine about it and not help
[21:30] <IdleOne> ++
[21:30] <xcdghjm> topyli: This isn't a purely +1 problem.
[21:30] <xcdghjm> topyli: Pulseaudio is bitchy in 8.04+
[21:30] <IdleOne> finally someone said it
[21:30] <salty-horse> xcdghjm, other people with the terminal problem: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8086412
[21:30] <xcdghjm> salty-horse: I really don't care about it.
[21:30] <dtchen> you know, i've been sitting here waiting for you to actually point to bugs that you've reported and tried to help me resolve.
[21:30] <xcdghjm> salty-horse: I rarely use my ttys.
[21:30] <IdleOne> stop your whining and crying. it's a FREE OS.
[21:31] <dtchen> but, xcdghjm, apparently you'd rather bemoan it than actually help me help you.
[21:31] <salty-horse> xcdghjm, it just caused me to restart since wine was misbehaving and I couldn't kill it
[21:31] <xcdghjm> I tried whining and crying over my Windoze XP problems but got nowhere.
[21:31] <xcdghjm> salty-horse: I hate it when that happens.
[21:31] <IdleOne> xcdghjm: and you think it will get you further with Linux?
[21:31] <salty-horse> xcdghjm, I thought you don't care :)
[21:32] <xcdghjm> At least it was easier to remove Pulseaudio before Karmic.
[21:32] <xcdghjm> Now I can't remove it without breaking my volume applet.
[21:32] <topyli> oh no
[21:32] <dtchen> sure you can. set your autoaudiosink correctly.
[21:32] <dtchen> when you muck with internals, you need to understand the internals.
[21:33] <xcdghjm> dtchen: How do I do that?
[21:33] <ripps> If you've removed pulseaudio, you can bind a command to manually control alsa to your volume control keys
[21:34] <matrixblue> aplay -l doesn't list any devices at all
[21:35] <dtchen> check your permissions.
[21:35] <necromnicon> xcdghjm: dont remove pulseaudio...  just change the permissions of /usr/bin/pulseaudio to non executable
[21:35] <dtchen> remember that PA uses udev acl to access /dev/snd/*
[21:35] <dtchen> if you don't use PA, you need to ensure that your user is in the audio group
[21:36] <JanC> also, check what audio device the volume applet is trying to use...
[21:37] <deathcore> hi i want to upgrade 9.04 to 9.10 how stable is 9.10?
[21:37] <necromnicon> i find it funny when people install a BETA os and then complain.... lol
[21:37] <wastrel> i installed the alpha so there
[21:38] <necromnicon> wastrel: yea and your not complaining
[21:38] <Drop_tables> deathcore, wait 18 days?
[21:39] <ripps> Okay, i only got here, but does pulseaudio have to be removed? Isn't it better to help and try to fix it, instead of fighting it.
[21:40] <xcdghjm> ripps: Usually, yeah.
[21:40] <xcdghjm> ripps: But Pulseaudio is such a buggy piece of shit on one of my PCs.
[21:40] <HoopyCat> deathcore:  it's still a moving target.  it works and is getting better every day, but i haven't upgraded my workstation yet.  (next weekend for sure :-)
[21:41] <dtchen> xcdghjm: i'm unsure how you even blame solely PA in that case.
[21:41] <Kraln> works fine on my netbook
[21:41] <Kraln> but then again I did a custom kernel =p
[21:41] <dotblank> wow
[21:41] <dotblank> soo much complaining about PA
[21:41] <Drop_tables> ripps: Go for the practical approach. I removed pulseaudio from three completely different hardware platforms, and broken stuff started worked
[21:41] <dtchen> xcdghjm: "one of my PCs" -> different hardware, different characteristics of bugs
[21:41] <kevin123> if i install karmic koala beta, will i have to do a clean install for the final version? or is it better if i wait? I just have free time today...
[21:42] <billybigrigger> kevin123, no, you won't need to re-install
[21:42] <necromnicon> is there any way to get a system wide equalizer with a gui for the equalizer? like with a LADSPA plugin or something
[21:42] <ripps> Drop_tables: has anybody here filed bugs?
[21:42] <topyli> dotblank, not so much. xcdghjm just needs a lollipop
[21:42] <billybigrigger> kevin123, just keep up to date
[21:42] <dtchen> Drop_tables: well, that doesn't actually mean broken stuff magically was resloved
[21:42] <topyli> kevin123, the final will come with upgrades
[21:42] <kevin123> billybigrigger will synaptic do it for me?
[21:42] <billybigrigger> kevin123, yes
[21:42] <dtchen> Drop_tables: you've simply made it harder to debug where in the stack the crap is
[21:42] <kevin123> topyli important upgrades?
[21:42] <xcdghjm> dtchen: Because before Pulseaudio came along, I didn't have all these sound issues.
[21:42] <billybigrigger> kevin123, errr...no wait
[21:42] <billybigrigger> kevin123, do what?
[21:43] <Drop_tables> Yeah sorry, but I just wanted to get my audio working ASAP
[21:43] <kevin123> just curious, am i going to have to format to ext4?
[21:43] <billybigrigger> kevin123, no, you can still use ext3
[21:43] <dtchen> xcdghjm: that has nothing to do with whether ALSA isn't buggy
[21:43] <kevin123> billybigrigger update to final for me
[21:43] <HoopyCat> kevin123:  if you go with the beta (or any ubuntu pre-release), you're setting your system to track the final name of it
[21:43] <billybigrigger> kevin123, ext4 is only set to default on a fresh install
[21:43] <billybigrigger> kevin123, update manager will update for you yeah
[21:43] <xcdghjm> dtchen: I wouldn't mind PA  so much if it was easy to remove.
[21:43] <kevin123> yeah but ive heard that ext4 is better?
[21:43] <HoopyCat> kevin123:  so, as far as your system is concerned, there's no difference between beta and final
[21:44] <billybigrigger> kevin123, http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/beta
[21:44] <kevin123> hoopycat thanks
[21:44] <ripps> !beta
[21:44] <sageNsand> Is 2.6.31-11 generic the latest update?
[21:44] <arielco> !mc
[21:44] <ripps> sageNsand: I have 2.6.31-13
[21:45] <HoopyCat> kevin123:  ext4 does have a few advantages over ext3; however, they aren't necessarily worth reinstalling for unless you specifically need them.  ext3 will work for the foreseeable future.
[21:45] <Kraln> sageNsand: I build 2.6.31-12
[21:45] <guntbert> !info mc | arielco
[21:45] <sageNsand> I thought so, my manager says Im up to date
[21:45] <Kraln> built*
[21:45] <Drop_tables> Pulseaudio is like your appendix. Ideally you should keep it. But if there is a problem, you should have surgery to remove it. Though it will leave some scarring.
[21:45] <xcdghjm> dtchen: Linux has always been a bit funny about sound with this machine.
[21:45] <HoopyCat> Linux gandalf 2.6.31-13-generic #44-Ubuntu SMP Sat Oct 10 15:27:55 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux
[21:46] <xcdghjm> dtchen: Linux likes to use different jacks to Windows.
[21:46] <xcdghjm> dtchen: I have to use my headphones with my microphone jack for example.
[21:46] <ripps> I repeat, has anybody here filed any bugs related to your pulseaudio issues? If nobody upstream is aware you have an issue, then it will never be fixed
[21:46] <xcdghjm> dtchen: With Karmic, all my bass is coming out of my centre channel rather than the LFE channel.
[21:46] <kevin123> hoopycat much appreciated, i will just upgrade through 9.04 then
[21:47] <xcdghjm> dtchen: The LFE channel does nothing,.
[21:47] <Kraln> Amaranth: you might be interested to hear the kernel I compiled works great ;)
[21:47] <sageNsand> I also get the Partial Upgrade dialog
[21:47] <Amaranth> Kraln: awesome
[21:48] <matrixblue> I've tried everything I can think of but the sound still doesn't work. aplay -l lists no devices. Any suggestions?
[21:48] <Kraln> Amaranth: I should probably send the drm/psb driver patches upstream (I fixed thm for the changes in the 2.6.31 kernel)
[21:48] <johnmn3> ubuntu should adopt chrome's diff update tool for synaptic updates
[21:48] <Amaranth> Kraln: I'm not sure upstream will care but it'd be good anyway
[21:48] <arielco> thanks guntbert - I had added multiverse to the wrong line in sources.list :$
[21:48] <Kraln> Amaranth: hah. intel not particularly caring about them, are they?
[21:49] <sageNsand> I think I got something screwed up and maybe think about reinstalling to catch up might be simplest
[21:49] <Amaranth> Kraln: So were all your changes just to the psb kernel module or did you modify the rest of the kernel too?
[21:49] <Amaranth> Kraln: intel seems to run the psb stuff as a closed source project with code dumps
[21:49] <HoopyCat> kevin123:  and for what it's worth, ext4 filesystems work with 9.04 as well; i've got my backup pool on ext4.  so, you can do some experimentation if you have some spare partitions and some good test cases.
[21:49] <guntbert> arielco: you are welcome :-) , I always have mc installed on *any* system I run...
[21:50] <Kraln> Amaranth: the kernel build was just -MARCH=core2 or whatever. didn't mess with it. I patched the psb stuff because of the changes to internal data structures.
[21:50] <arielco>  guntbert: I was told that it could help me recover a directory I deleted by stup... accident. The filesystem is Ok so I figured there's a way to do it without scanning all deleted blocks
[21:50] <necromnicon> i guess nobody knows :(
[21:50] <Amaranth> Kraln: Why build your own kernel then?
[21:50] <Amaranth> Kraln: you could just build the new module
[21:50] <matrixblue> anyone figured out how to solve the no sound issue in karmic?
[21:51] <Amaranth> matrixblue: There is no single "no sound issue"
[21:51] <Amaranth> It is hardware dependent
[21:51] <kevin123> hoopycat in school, im just an anti window-ite, no time to experiment :) thanks though
[21:51] <Kraln> Amaranth: true. the kernel build was also pulling in a lot of the modules and disabling stuff that the mini10 doesn't have. it wasn't strictly required, I suppose
[21:51] <Kraln> was trying to get startup faster
[21:52] <HoopyCat> kevin123:  cool... stick with ext3 and you'll be fine and save a lot of time :-)
[21:52] <Amaranth> Kraln: ah
[21:52] <matrixblue> Amaranth, would it help if I found out the name of my soundcard?
[21:52] <Amaranth> Kraln: in that case a package for the new module would be awesome :)
[21:52] <kevin123> hoopycat will do, thanks for your help
[21:52] <guntbert> arielco: mc? I'd be surprised - its a very handy file manager for the console
[21:52] <Kraln> Amaranth: I posted a gzip of the .ko, I'm not familiar with how to build .deb packages. could you point me to a guide or something?
[21:53] <arielco> yup, I used it long ago, when I didn't use the shell much but really liked Norton Commander
[21:53] <ripps> matrixblue: have you filed a bug?
[21:53] <arielco> guntbert: now I use neither - bash ftw ! ;)
[21:53] <guntbert> arielco: :)
[21:54] <matrixblue> ripps, I'm making sure that there isn't already a fix before I do that
[21:54] <DanaG> weird... I went to install updates, and it logged me out of Gnome!
[21:54] <DanaG> And then my system hard-locked, to where even the heartbeat LED stopped.
[21:54] <DanaG> And when the heartbeat LED stops, you know it's way dead.
[21:54] <Kraln> Amaranth: heh, I had disabled misc binary support in the kernel, and then a karmic update of mountall totally boned up everything until I compiled it back in
[21:55] <Amaranth> Kraln: you could get the psb-kernel-source source package and put your code in
[21:55] <ripps> matrixblue: doesn't matter, `ubuntu-bug linux-sound-base` it'll give a few similars based on your title, otherwise, complete filing it and it'll automatically attach a bunch of hardware info and logs to help with diagnosing the issue.
[21:55] <Kraln> is a .deb just a tarball or something?
[21:55] <Amaranth> Kraln: (that's in the ubuntu-mobile PPA)
[21:55] <Amaranth> Kraln: no, not really
[21:56] <arielco> guntbert: got it! Now how do mount a device for this data-recovery feature?
[21:56] <Kraln> okay, how would I 'put my code in', heh ;)
[21:56] <matrixblue> ripps, I'll do that then
[21:56] <Amaranth> Kraln: Is the only thing you had to change the psb kernel module? What about the libdrm and mesa and such?
[21:57] <ripps> More of my bugs have been solved through bug reports, than on any irc channel.
[21:57] <guntbert> arielco: sorry, no idea - I guess I'll need it soon, but until now ....
[21:57] <Kraln> Amaranth: libdrm had to be updated as well. didn't have to mess with mesa
[21:57] <arielco> guntbert: http://www.datarecoverypros.com/recover-linux-midnightcommander.html :)
[21:58] <Amaranth> Kraln: so you don't have 3D support then?
[21:58]  * Amaranth is laggy
[21:58] <Amaranth> feels like dialup but it's 3mbit DSL :/
[21:59] <Kraln> Amaranth: hmm? no, 3d works.
[21:59] <guntbert> arielco: thx for the hint - already filed :))
[21:59] <Kraln> you can tell its working properly because it gets the EDID from the LVDS panel and shows at the right resolution. also, the UNR interface isn't dog slow
[21:59] <Amaranth> Kraln: ah so you got the psb libGL but you didn't have to do anything extra to get it to work
[21:59] <Kraln> yeh
[21:59] <Drop_tables> I might install grub2 for fun. Anyone confirm if this will be fun?
[22:02] <ripps> !grub2 | Drop_tables
[22:02] <drs305> Drop_tables: It will be an adventure, but you can learn to really like it.
[22:02] <EvilAIM> Do you guys think, if I download Crossover office, and send out the installer, that I'd get in trouble?
[22:02] <EvilAIM> haha
[22:03] <drs305> Drop_tables: Here are 3 posts on UF that will help:
[22:03] <drs305> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1195275
[22:03] <drs305> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1285897#post8072444
[22:03] <drs305> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1287602
[22:03] <Kraln> Amaranth: hmm, seems I forgot to enable dri. *reboots and sees if it works*
[22:03] <Drop_tables> Thanks, i'll check those out
[22:06] <Kraln> hmm.
[22:07] <sdg> Why is my centre audio channel acting as both centre and LFE?
[22:07] <sdg> And my LFE channel does nothing?
[22:08] <dtchen> sdg: do you have a Master Mono mixer element?
[22:08] <sdg> dtchen: I don't know...
[22:09] <sdg> dtchen: I guess so.
[22:09] <dtchen> sdg: see 'amixer'
[22:10] <dtchen> (in a Terminal)
[22:10] <wegot5> Are Karmic LPIA disc images available yet?
[22:10] <sdg> dtchen: http://pastebin.com/m64107c3a
[22:10] <robin0800> dtchen:  its alsamixer I think
[22:11] <dtchen> robin0800: i intentionally specified amixer, because i want the enumeration.
[22:11] <Kraln> Amaranth: hmm, seems that dri isn't working for some weird reason
[22:11] <Josh1> Could I have some help, my headphones and speakers work in the beta of ubuntu 9.1 but my headphones do not work on ubuntu 9.04 could i transfer my settings from ubuntu 9.1 to ubuntu 9.04
[22:11] <dtchen> sdg: that seems to be a usb headset, webcam, or something
[22:12] <dtchen> sdg: what does 'aplay -l' give you?
[22:12] <sdg> dtchen: Motherboard audio.
[22:12] <sdg> dtchen: http://pastebin.com/m38a25e23
[22:12] <sdg> dtchen: I have two audio devices, though.
[22:12] <sdg> dtchen: I think it's only detecting one?
[22:13] <sdg> dtchen: I have six motherboard jacks and two jacks on the front of the machine.
[22:14] <dtchen> sdg: right, that's your onboard (from aplay -l)
[22:14] <dtchen> sdg: what's the output from amixer -Dhw:0 ?
[22:14] <aliendude5300> hi, can I have someone check something before I submit a bug report in open office? I have a powerpoint presentation that has a 'broken' background in open office. I wanted to see if anyone else can reproduce the error. Every time you change slides on the powerpoint presentation, the background should be different.
[22:14] <sdg> dtchen: amixer: Unknown command '?'...
[22:15] <dtchen> sdg: err, omit the question mark
[22:15] <dtchen> i.e., "amixer -Dhw:0"
[22:15] <sdg> dtchen: Sorry...
[22:15] <aliendude5300> saving the file as pptx format crashes open office.
[22:15] <sdg> dtchen: http://pastebin.com/m684abdba
[22:16] <sdg> dtchen: I want to have my LFE at a minimum but can't without having no centre sound.
[22:16] <aliendude5300> can someone download this file and tell me if it also acts weird in their open office? http://www.filedropper.com/presentation_5
[22:16] <aliendude5300> It has no contents other than a background image.
[22:16] <sdg> dtchen: And Pulseaudio is always setting centre and LFE to maximum.
[22:17] <dtchen> sdg: shouldn't really matter if you set 'Channel Mode' to '2ch'
[22:17] <Kraln> Amaranth: any reason why directrendering would only work as root?
[22:17] <dtchen> sdg: i.e., amixer -Dhw:0 sset 'Channel Mode' '2ch'
[22:19] <sdg> dtchen: It's even worse now.
[22:19] <sdg> dtchen: It's mega bassy with 2 channel mode.
[22:20] <coordinador> hi
[22:21] <coordinador> i have a problem, i cannot open links from other applications
[22:21] <coordinador> i clicked on it but nothing happen
[22:22] <Josh1> Could I have some help, my headphones and speakers work in the beta of ubuntu 9.1 but my headphones do not work on ubuntu 9.04 could i transfer my settings from ubuntu 9.1 to ubuntu 9.04
[22:22] <Kraln> whatever, works enough for me
[22:22] <Brian___> im trying to use gimp the make a signature, what i wanna do is take one picture cut out a car and paste the car onto a differant  background  what is this called so i can google a tutorial
[22:22] <dtchen> sdg: re-paste a new run of amixer -Dhw:0
[22:22] <Brian___> or how do i merge layers
[22:22] <sageNsand> I just did the update and it went from 31-11 to 31-13!! now wtf did I miss hahaha
[22:22] <dtchen> Josh1: that's a driver issue. You'd need a newer kernel or a newer alsa-driver.
[22:23] <sdg> dtchen: http://pastebin.com/m5fb5c996
[22:23] <sdg> dtchen: I think the only way to get around this annoyance is to remove pulseaudio. :(
[22:23] <dtchen> sdg: hardly
[22:24] <dtchen> you could try enabling remixing of LFE
[22:24] <sdg> dtchen: In /etc/pulse/daemon.conf?
[22:25] <dtchen> sdg: correct
[22:25] <dtchen> it isn't enabled, because it breaks other hardware configurations
[22:25] <dtchen> remember to killall pulseaudio after making the change
[22:25] <sdg> dtchen: It didn't work. And I can't test any more now because my parents are trying to sleep.
[22:25] <sdg> dtchen: I remembered.
[22:26] <dtchen> sdg: then test later, and leave me a memoserv. i'm traveling this week, so i probably won't be on irc often.
[22:26] <Tarthen> is the Nvidia card, scrambled TTY issue fixed?
[22:26] <sdg> dtchen: I don't know what else to do.
[22:26] <sdg> dtchen: Except remove pulseaudio.
[22:26] <Tarthen> :s maybe my repos are slow...
[22:27] <dtchen> Tarthen: not yet.
[22:27] <Tarthen> Ach
[22:27] <dtchen> sdg: just tell PulseAudio to ignore the LFE setting.
[22:27] <Tarthen> Is it the new Nvidia driver I just so happened to update to the other day?
[22:28] <dtchen> Tarthen: could be; have you tried reverting Kees's execstack changes?
[22:28] <Tarthen> uh... no... xD
[22:29] <sdg> dtchen: What should default-channel-map be?
[22:29] <sdg> dtchen: I will fiddle around with it a bit more tomorrow.
[22:29] <dtchen> sdg: you're barking up the wrong tree. See grep -n LFE /usr/share/pulseaudio/alsa-mixer/paths/analog-output*
[22:29] <Trizicus> i'm messing w/ IPtables and i just blocked port 80 but i'm still able to connect to websites do i have to restart a service for this to take effect?
[22:30] <dtchen> Trizicus: did you block both outbound and inbound 80 for v4 and v6?
[22:30] <coordinador> **HI, i think i found a bug, the notify display appeared twice (big and little)
[22:30] <coordinador> at the same time
[22:30] <Trizicus> i just blocked inbound
[22:31] <Trizicus> is there a service related to iptables or do changes take affect immediately?
[22:31] <dtchen> sdg: specifically, change line 85 of /usr/share/pulseaudio/alsa-mixer/paths/analog-output.conf from "volume = merge" to "volume = ignore"
[22:32] <sdg> dtchen: Why?
[22:33] <dtchen> sdg: that tells PA to ignore whatever you have LFE set to.
[22:33] <Tarthen> Trizicus: what about "service iptables restart"?
[22:33] <sdg> dtchen: So why is LFE set to my centre channel?
[22:33] <resistol> In empathy, when I hit minimize or close, the window shrinks towards the bottom panel and then disappears- where does it go?
[22:33] <sdg> dtchen: That's what I want to know.
[22:33] <dtchen> sdg: it's not. it's controlled by your Center channel because your codec sucks.
[22:33] <Trizicus> i didnt know it was a service :D
[22:33] <dtchen> go beat your OEM or something
[22:34] <Trizicus> i was looking in /etc/init.d/ and didn't see iptables listed
[22:34] <sdg> dtchen: BRB my Gnome session has just gone crazy and unstable
[22:34] <Trizicus> and that command doesn't work
[22:34] <Tarthen> Trizicus: I was taking a shot in the dark, tbh. :P
[22:34] <Trizicus> i had to stop using ufw b/c it sucks tbh
[22:35] <sageNsand> Next time when I get a partial update with 5 grayed out files to become active (non grayed), Im not waiting 5 days, the sticky said to wait a few hrs. and try again. I waited too long, should have reinstalled or something, but Manager couldn't find the server for 5 days!  Just venting :) Udate manager has to be tested also
[22:38] <sdg> sdg: I think I broke pulseaudio...
[22:39] <Tarthen> sdg: Aint too hard :P
[22:40] <sdg> Okay I fixed it.
[22:40] <sdg> dtchen: Testing now...
[22:40] <sdg> dtchen: I can't really test with my parents sleeping next door to me.
[22:41] <sageNsand> It actually said  Failed to fetch http:archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu......
[22:41] <Tarthen> ahh, the glories of 3am hacking, eh sdg :P
[22:41] <sdg> Tarthen: 10:41 PM
[22:41] <Tarthen> 10:41 PM hacking then >>
[22:41] <sdg> FFS It's so annoying.
[22:42] <Tarthen> learn to earphones :P
[22:42] <sdg> I can't wait 'til I go to university.
[22:42] <sdg> Tarthen: I'm trying to get my 5.1 sound to work properly.
[22:42] <sdg> Tarthen: I'm trying to stop the bass from going crazy.
[22:42] <sdg> Tarthen: So I can't really do it with my parents sleeping next door...
[22:43] <Teclys> i tried moving a file from one folder to another and now its in neither
[22:43] <Teclys> if i restart will it get deleted?
[22:44] <sdg> dtchen: As far as I can tell, the LFE ignore thing didn't work.
[22:44] <sdg> dtchen: The bass is still coming out of my centre channel.
[22:44] <c_korn> Teclys: how did you move ? using the GUI or mv ?
[22:45] <sdg> dtchen: The sound is very bassy when I crank up the centre channel.
[22:45] <ylatuya_> Hi there, Is there any known issue botting Beta4 iso? The problem is that I downloaded both the desktop-i386 and alternate-i386 iso's and "burned" them to an USB stick (using dd and usb-imagewritter). My BIOS is properly configured to boot from the external drive, but Karmic doesn't boot at all Any thoughs?
[22:45] <Teclys> c_korn, GUI
[22:46] <c_korn> Teclys: was there an error ? was it a hidden file which just is not displayed in the target directory ?
[22:46] <sdg> dtchen: And I risked getting a grievance from my parents to test that.
[22:47] <sdg> dtchen: Right now, I feel like just removing Pulseaudio.
[22:47] <Teclys> c_korn: it spun for about 5 minutes than disappeared
[22:48] <c_korn> Teclys: and it surely is not in the target directory ?
[22:48] <c_korn> did you ls -la it ?
[22:49] <sdg> dtchen: It is done.
[22:49] <sdg> dtchen: No more shitty Pulseaudio.
[22:50] <sdg> dtchen: I will be testing it tomorrow to see if all my sound problems are gone.
[22:50] <Teclys> c_korn: its actually a problem my roommate is having at home, and i'm at work. i will try to walk them through the terminal haha
[22:50] <sdg> dtchen: If they aren't all gone, at least I'll have narrowed down the problem.
[22:51] <sdg> dtchen: And I'll have to revert to 9.04 or 8.10 or even 8.04
[22:51] <cybersplice> Teclys, why not have him map a port for SSH?
[22:51] <yoritomo> i burned the image of karmic to make a clean install, but the installer does not takes my sata hdd
[22:51] <yoritomo> what to do?
[22:53] <Teclys> cybersplice: i'm on a windows machine, and we're behind a router.
[22:53] <sebsebseb> hi
[22:53] <sdg> dtchen: Maybe I should just buy a new PC?
[22:53] <yoritomo> is it a way to launch the sata driver ?
[22:54] <sdg> sebsebseb: Hi.
[22:54] <Tarthen> yoritomo: The sata "driver" is in the kernel o.o
[22:54] <sebsebseb> sdg: hi
[22:54] <henrik__1> hello, is there somebody else with karmic running extremely slowly after some recent upgrade?
[22:54] <cybersplice> Teclys, that doesn't matter. You can get PuTTY to get SSH, and if you get him to map ssh at his end, your router won't cause a problem.
[22:54] <Tarthen> henrik__1: Don't notice anything... compiz is still smooth
[22:55] <yoritomo> on karmic firefox is exxxxxxxtremely slow
[22:55] <henrik__1> Tarthen: I can't even get to the desktop, and apps can take minutes to start.. not sure what's going on
[22:55] <Teclys> cybersplice: alright, i forgot about putty. the roommate isnt very computer savvy, how would i have them map ssh?
[22:55] <Tarthen> henrik__1: Jump into a terminal and top
[22:55] <Tarthen> Teclys: Port forwarding
[22:56] <shadowhywind> hay all I just did some updates, I now can't login via the konsole
[22:56] <Tarthen> Teclys: Some routers allow for external configuring, get their IP and map it
[22:56] <yoritomo> Tarthen what to do then ? It is a basic installer (maybe too basic) and i don't know if sata can be token in account
[22:57] <yoritomo> that is a bit strange anyway , in karmic itself, no problems
[22:57] <Jeruvy> yoritomo: can you elaborate?  I haven't noticed any 'slowness'.  Perhaps your dns is messing with you.
[22:58] <yoritomo> but even on windows firefox 3 generation is really slower
[22:58] <cybersplice> Teclys, if it's a netgear router you could just talk them through it. It's pretty simple.
[22:59] <Tarthen> nah. that's just windows :P
[22:59] <shadowhywind> also now I have to turn my font up to about 20 inorder for it to look like if it was on 6
[22:59] <yoritomo> why my sata is not detected please ? anything wrong on the installer ?
[23:00] <Jeruvy> yoritomo: does your bios detect it ?
[23:00] <Teclys> cybersplice, it is a netgear router. i've never set up port forwarding
[23:00] <yoritomo> yes, now i am booted on karmic and working fine
[23:01] <cybersplice> Teclys, i'll talk to you in direct messages to avoid flooding.
[23:01] <yoritomo> but if i reboot on the cd , at the partition menu, can't see the excelstor
[23:01] <billybigrigger> anyone know of a better usenet client than evolution?
[23:03] <shadowhywind> *fixed my size issue* but does anyone have any ideas why I can't log into any terminals (alt+F1-6) I get like a courrupted screen
[23:04] <Jeruvy> yoritomo: ok, gtk. can you review the output of /var/log/dmesg from busybox?
[23:04] <yoritomo> busybox?
[23:05] <Jeruvy> its the limited shell you get during the installer, if you cannot get a real bash shell.
[23:06] <yoritomo> how to access that shell ?
[23:07] <Jeruvy> yoritomo: if you can boot from livecd, then just use a regular shell.  If your still at the installer, try alt+f2
[23:07] <yoritomo> no livecd option on the menu on the beta karmic cd
[23:08] <c_korn> how can I see which process causes havy disk usage ?
[23:08] <c_korn> *heavy
[23:08] <yoritomo> that is why i was a bit disappointed
[23:09] <Jeruvy> yoritomo:  There is with desktop (try without installing)
[23:09] <stuff> heyyyyyyyyyy
[23:09] <stuff> sebsebseb
[23:09] <stuff> I'm in the right channel now
[23:09] <yoritomo> c_korn accessories/disk usage
[23:09] <sebsebseb> stuff: well yes if your wanting help with Karmic if not  the other
[23:10] <stuff> yeah
[23:10] <cybersplice> yoritomo, only the server and alternative cds don't have livecd mode.
[23:10] <stuff> I need UNR with .31 kernel
[23:10] <stuff> or at least I want to try it
[23:10] <stuff> with .31, I think this might fix my long held wireless issues
[23:10] <c_korn> yoritomo: this is for the space. is there anything for I/O operations ?
[23:10] <yoritomo> cybersplice i could not find other than alternate
[23:10] <yoritomo> ok
[23:10] <cybersplice> yoritomo, one second.
[23:11] <yoritomo> where to download the desktop, it was surely my problem
[23:11] <stuff> anyway, how do I put Karmic on a usb key when it is .iso rather than .img like 9.04 was, sebsebseb?
[23:11] <sebsebseb> stuff: don't do Karmic yet
[23:11] <stuff> what do you recommend then?
[23:11] <sebsebseb> stuff: wait untill the final on October 29th, and if you really want the later kernel there's a ppa for a later kernel for 9.04
[23:11] <stuff> ppa?
[23:11] <sebsebseb> however  instaling it probably won't give you any advantages as such if any really,  why do you want it?
[23:11] <cybersplice> yoritomo, http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/9.10/
[23:11] <stuff> wireless support
[23:12] <stuff> cant connect to any networks
[23:12] <c_korn> !ppa | stuff
[23:12] <cybersplice> very top link is the desktop in x86, and below that the x86_64
[23:12] <sebsebseb> stuff: wireless has been an issue  in Ubuntu since well I guess the beginining of Ubuntu
[23:12] <stuff> oh, so I'll have to install it to the hard drive then
[23:12] <sebsebseb> I don't think 9.10 is going to fix loads of wireless issues
[23:12] <stuff> no live usb
[23:12] <yoritomo> thanks for that link
[23:12] <cybersplice> No problem, yoritomo.
[23:12] <stuff> Well I've used cruncheee, .30 in arch linux, and lots of other stuff like debian
[23:13] <stuff> and I just want to be able to use my wifi hardware
[23:13] <stuff> which I still cant connect
[23:13] <sebsebseb> stuff: wireless is one of those issues that doesn't just go away,  with a newer version of Ubuntu, since lack of manufacture support etc
[23:13] <stuff> I won't go into the complexities of that issue
[23:13] <stuff> I just want to try .31
[23:13] <stuff> it should work since 1000HE eeepc isnt too rare
[23:13] <cybersplice> sebsebseb, i think i've been lucky. Never had any issues with wireless. I only tend to use Dell kit though.
[23:13] <cybersplice> my own build stuff is all ethernet.
[23:14] <stuff> so, sebsebseb, you recommend installing 9.04 to the hard drive so I can get the PPA of .31 kernel?
[23:15] <cybersplice> Teclys, have i bored you to death?
[23:15] <sebsebseb> cybersplice: I had issues with wireless once upon a time,  with  a stupid wireless device that I coudn't configure in Fedora Core 2 and 4 (no Ubuntu back then), then I got hardwired and I been living happiley ever after  since.  (yes some of this is meant to sound like a fairy tale)
[23:15] <yoritomo> ubuntustudio is working on 64 edition ?
[23:15] <cybersplice> sebsebseb, i tend to prefer wired anyway. I know how easy it is to break wireless. Also, its unreliable pap in a built up area.
[23:15] <cybersplice> I have like 18 wlans on my damned site survey..
[23:16] <sebsebseb> cybersplice: unreliable in a build up area?
[23:16] <stuff> was that a yes sebsebseb?
[23:16] <sebsebseb> stuff: uhmm
[23:16] <sebsebseb> stuff: What are you currently running?
[23:16] <cybersplice> Yes. Invariably if you don't reconfigure your wlan you'll get 28371823 wlans all on channel 6 / 11.
[23:16] <stuff> live usb of 9.04
[23:16] <stuff> I have an arch linux partition though
[23:16] <stuff> why?
[23:16] <cybersplice> sebsebseb, the channels bleed over into eachother and can interfere. Exceptions being 6 and 11.
[23:17] <sebsebseb> stuff: not much point putting 9.04 on now with Karmic just round the corner,  if you really can't wait though maybe try the beta of Karmic,  except some bugs though
[23:17] <stuff> YES
[23:17] <stuff> that is what ive been saying
[23:17] <stuff> so how do i do usb key of that
[23:17] <stuff> as it is .iso
[23:17] <cybersplice> stuff, the Karmic beta is pretty stable right now. There are bugs, but i've not run into any show stoppers.
[23:17] <stuff> rather than .img
[23:17] <stuff> as I assumed first of all
[23:17] <Drop_tables> Unetbootin
[23:17] <Josh1> there is no adobe flash player
[23:17] <stuff> back to my original question ^^^^
[23:18] <sebsebseb> cybersplice: my boot up still isn't any where near perfect,  so i'll clean install when the final is out, but hey I been running this install since alpha 4
[23:18] <cybersplice> Josh1, only when compiz is running.
[23:18] <stuff> drop_tables, Unetbootin will just work with .iso without thinking?
[23:18] <stuff> okay
[23:18] <cybersplice> sebsebseb, Yes, my frequently upgraded VM in the office is a bit wobbly.
[23:18] <Josh1> no i mean with the beta of 9.1 there is no way to install adobe flash player
[23:18] <aliendude5300> Could someone with open office open up this file and tell me if the background is broken for them too or is it just on my system? http://www.filedropper.com/presentation_7
[23:18] <cybersplice> Josh1, sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras
[23:19] <stuff> question answer I guess
[23:19] <stuff> tnc
[23:19] <stuff> tnx
[23:19] <cybersplice> brb 2 secs.
[23:20] <sebsebseb> cybersplice: I am still not sure about Karmic,  a part of me wants to switch distro,  another part wants to  put 9.04 back on if the final indeed is what I think it will be,  but I will probably end up running Karmic anyway after a clean install,  and upgrade it to lucid development versions pretty soon or something.   I am annoyeed that GDM can no longer be themed.
[23:20] <CarlFK> I just reported https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub-installer/+bug/449083
[23:20] <Josh1>  and also there is no install button in the ubuntu software center
[23:20] <CarlFK> now I would like to actually boot the box.  \
[23:20] <CarlFK> any idea how I boot from grub rescue> ?
[23:21] <sebsebseb> Josh1: you have to do install from the file menu, I know a bit silly, that's something I want to, an install button by the apps, actsaully if you click on that door icon you get more info and an install button
[23:21] <Jeruvy> Josh1: try what cybersplice said above.  That will work.
[23:21] <timber> why the screensaver never comes up when the irc client is open?
[23:22] <sebsebseb> Josh1: and Flash can be installed into the Beta
[23:22] <cybersplice> sebsebseb, GDM can't be themed now?
[23:22] <sebsebseb> cybersplice: yep
[23:23] <mzz> at least not for the same value of "themed" as in the previous version of gdm
[23:23] <Josh1> when you install from the adobe website you get a missing dependency that is not avaliabe
[23:23] <sebsebseb> cybersplice: I was annoyed about 9.04 with their edited  fusa (fast user account switcher) the thing on the top right, but  now by the sounds of it upstream has messed up for a change,  with  GDM 2
[23:23] <timber> the menu entry on the login screen, is black now?
[23:23] <mzz> "black"?
[23:23] <sebsebseb> timber: yep and it's not that good
[23:23] <drs305> CarlFK: Do you have web access?
[23:23] <cybersplice> hm.
[23:24] <timber> sebsebseb, i didn't liked too
[23:24] <cybersplice> Frankly, i don't care about GDM themes, it doesn't affect what i do with a machine, but it seems liek abit of an omission. And upstream error would certainly explain it.
[23:24] <sebsebseb> timber: I gave KDM another try :)
[23:24] <CarlFK> drs305: do I have web access from the box that is at the " grub rescue>" prompt ? (no.)  but I do from this box
[23:24] <sebsebseb> ,but then
[23:24] <cybersplice> Josh1, seriously, sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras
[23:24] <sebsebseb> timber: the boot up effect the new one,  doesn't show,  I had it for shut down though
[23:25] <timber> sebsebseb, i like gnome, but i hope the white come back
[23:25] <Josh1> hold on i am burning the beta to a cd now
[23:25] <drs305> CarlFK: Here is a good link to look at:  http://planetstephanie.net/2009/05/27/grub2-rescue-mode/
[23:25] <sebsebseb> timber: seems a lot of people don't care about  themeing the log in screen, by ones I have talked to on IRC, they are like well I only see it for 5 seconds anyway
[23:25] <joaopinto> Josh1, if you are not using beta why are you asking here ?
[23:25] <yoritomo> is it still so many incompatibility on ubuntu64, i remember bad experiences about drivers and debs so difficult to find on proprietary
[23:25] <yoritomo> ?
[23:26] <joaopinto> yoritomo, no, unless you use proprietary software that I don't
[23:26] <timber> sebsebseb, yeah, it isn't a big deal
[23:26] <mzz> I couldn't care less about gdm theming unless what's there is completely horrible, which imho it isn't (but that's obviously a very personal thing)
[23:26] <yoritomo> untill the time sources are available that still nice, but not longtime ago skype had no 64 debs :s
[23:26] <henrik__1> hmm, my extremely slow performance appears to be due to abysmal IO performance to one of my harddrives, I only get about 250 kb/s from it after the last upgrade
[23:27] <cybersplice> sebsebseb, it's an upstream issue in that it's GDM
[23:27] <joaopinto> yoritomo, skype works fine on 64 bits with the 32 bits package, for at least about 1year
[23:27] <Amaranth> yoritomo: afaik skype still has no 64-bit debs
[23:27] <timber> does anybody know how much time takes to be released a package that fixes a bug?
[23:27] <Amaranth> GDM isn't possible to theme anymore without editing source code
[23:27] <joaopinto> timber, it depends, from 1 day to 1 year
[23:27] <mzz> speaking of gdm though: has anyone not been able to just use the keyboard to log in there? I've had to click my name for a while now, but I don't know what changed there
[23:27] <Amaranth> Except for changing the GTK+ theme which just changes the colors
[23:27] <cybersplice> sebsebseb, it's a new version and they haven't included theming in the gui yet. There MUST be theming there, or Ubuntu wouldn't have its own theme. ;)
[23:27] <mzz> gtk theme and icon theme are changeable, the layout of the screen itself is not
[23:28] <sebsebseb> timber:  cybersplice   something that came up the other day when I Google searched for a solution, it also provides the reason  http://www.ubuntumini.com/2009/09/hack-karmics-gdm-login-screen.html
[23:28] <sebsebseb> Amaranth: yeah and that sucks
[23:28] <joaopinto> cybersplice, changing code or images is not real theming
[23:28] <Amaranth> mzz: https://launchpad.net/bugs/447643
[23:28] <timber> joaopinto, ok...i was excited 'bout a bug that i reported, had be fixed
[23:29] <timber> joaopinto, now i'll have to wait
[23:29] <mzz> Amaranth: heh, I was just wandering over to a browser to search for bugs
[23:29] <cybersplice> joaopinto, granted, but clearly the feature will come when the GDM developers are ready.
[23:29] <Amaranth> sebsebseb: it also only takes about 10% of the code it used to
[23:29] <mzz> so thanks
[23:29] <sebsebseb> Amaranth: Apparantly  Fedora has had the new GDM for quite a while now, but  Canonical didn't like it,  hence why Ubuntu only gets it now
[23:29] <timber> sebsebseb, thanks, i'll try it
[23:29] <Amaranth> sebsebseb: it had some regressions wrt accessibility so we didn't have it
[23:30] <sebsebseb> timber: I thought about trying that, but it seems it won't do what we want
[23:30] <sebsebseb> timber: plus running commands for some webpage, could be a bit dodgy
[23:30] <sebsebseb> from some  random webpage
[23:30] <cybersplice> sebsebseb, none of those commands were particularly onerous.
[23:30] <mzz> and it has a keyboard layout switcher, so yay!
[23:31] <CarlFK> drs305: welp... I have more for the bug report :)   if I do "insmod /boot/grub/_linux.mod" I get the " error: the symbol 'grub_machine_fini' not found"
[23:31] <sebsebseb> cybersplice: I am not that sure what they do, but yes they didn't look malicious
[23:31] <timber> sebsebseb, =/
[23:31] <cybersplice> They weren't telling you to download this suspicious binary, for example.
[23:31] <cybersplice> sebsebseb, they run gnome commands that are already in your system. :)
[23:31] <mzz> CarlFK: "insmod" where?
[23:31] <mzz> CarlFK: oh, grub rescue prompt?
[23:31] <sebsebseb> Amaranth: wrt? as in with?
[23:32] <CarlFK> mzz yep: grub rescue>
[23:32] <mzz> CarlFK: I'm assuming it's missing a dependency. Can you try insmodding boot.mod?
[23:32] <cybersplice> sebsebseb, in fact, they don't work :D
[23:32] <CarlFK> mzz sure
[23:33] <sebsebseb> Ubuntu's default GDM looked  rather similar for many releases, and then the new one in 9.04 that looks rather different and that I didn't actsaully like much, but others did, and now this hmm
[23:33] <mzz> CarlFK: that's just a wild guess though, especially since I don't actually have _linux.mod
[23:33] <CarlFK> mzz: same error
[23:33] <CarlFK> mzz: ah, nor do i... but I do have linux.mod
[23:34] <mzz> CarlFK: haven't had to mess with the new grub in rescue mode yet, so can't really help
[23:34] <CarlFK> I cut pasted from http://planetstephanie.net/2009/05/27/grub2-rescue-mode/  "and you activate it with the insmod command:insmod /boot/grub/_linux.mod"
[23:35] <CarlFK> actually, I don't need to install the 32bit OS, just grub from there... any idea how to do that from the live cd?
[23:36] <yoritomo> joaopinto Amaranth i could not install the 32 version
[23:36] <yoritomo> but that was on hardy, maybe different now?
[23:37] <sebsebseb> not being able to theme GDM anymore is a disadvantage for me,   and I already got 9.04 on the other computer with Ext4,  and since  what it's being used for, there isn't really a reason to upgrade that one to 9.10 by what I have seen.  I also don't need it to fix a hardware issue for example an Intel graphics card issue. 10.04 should be interesting though when Synaptic is being replaced by the Software Centre by the sounds of it and what not
[23:37] <sebsebseb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter
[23:37] <cybersplice> Software center is already in 9.10, sebsebseb.
[23:37] <cybersplice> I am actually in it now.
[23:38] <sebsebseb> cybersplice: yes and  it's not that good it looks nice with the new theme
[23:38] <Chun1> Hi, just downloaded the latest beta, but I get the following error when trying to boot from it: (initramfs) unable to find a medium containing a live file system
[23:38] <cybersplice> Well, it's a software manager. What do you want from it?
[23:38] <sebsebseb> cybersplice: ,but it's only really a replacement for add/remove at the moment, it's going to be so much more by what I have read
[23:38] <cybersplice> Chun1, sounds like it might be a bad burn.
[23:38] <sebsebseb> cybersplice: it will become a rather important part of Ubuntu  it seems by what I read.   The page I linked to is rather good,  and there rationale has some interesting points.
[23:40] <sebsebseb> Amaranth: Anyway to have the old GDM in Karmic?
[23:40] <cybersplice> sebsebseb, the features look pretty cool, but i don't think it will provide much that's going to wow you. You can already do updates with update manager, and all the other features proposed in 10.04.
[23:41] <cybersplice> Consolidation is always nice, though.
[23:41] <Chun1> cybersplice: hmm, perhaps. If it helps, when I try to boot with a jaunty disk I get: "init: rc-default main process (2875) terminated with status 127"
[23:41] <sebsebseb> cybersplice: it's going to replace update manager and gdebi in the future and even the Wine  installed programs menu by the sounds of it
[23:41] <mzz> cybersplice: I think I'm just not the target audience of that thing, but it's probably useful for more gui-oriented people than me
[23:41] <sebsebseb> mzz: exactly
[23:41] <sebsebseb> I like apt-get
[23:41] <cybersplice> Chun1, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4769702
[23:41] <sebsebseb> ,but for newbies it will be like wow  by the sounds of it
[23:42] <mzz> I don't use the gui things much (only if I'm in a hurry and haven't figured out a convenient commandline way to do something yet)
[23:42] <cybersplice> sebsebseb, yes, but that's it. Important perhaps, becuase it will make it easy for fresh users, but i think it won't be anything amazing for the old hands.
[23:42] <timber> is there a way to turn off the case sensitive in nautilus?
[23:43] <mzz> but I do think it's important, because proper package manager usage is my main reason for using linux, and I like anything that helps new users of the distro use the package manager instead of installing stuff by hand
[23:43] <sebsebseb> mzz: Ubuntu is about  attracting Windows users as far as I know,  and they like their GUI's and fancy graphics,  software centre is a start.   Ubuntu should also improve on default eye candy really :)
[23:43] <cybersplice> Not meaning to be argumentative here, mind.
[23:43] <mzz> sebsebseb: yeah, exactly
[23:43] <cybersplice> I love apt-get.
[23:43] <sebsebseb> !love
[23:43] <henken> What could cause abysmal IO performance from a harddrive? I don't get even 1Mb/s from it, totally unusable. This behaviour started after recent upgrades
[23:43] <mzz> and I'm actually using a bunch of the gui-ish stuff, like networkmanager
[23:44] <mzz> henken: if you still have the old install: make sure it's actually still fast in that
[23:44] <cybersplice> henken, failed hdd?!
[23:44] <mzz> henken: if it is: I'd start by comparing the hd-related parts of dmesg from both
[23:44] <yoritomo> i see a skype 9.10 64bit on the website
[23:44] <sebsebseb> Being honest with ourselves,   and I kind of hate to say it, but  really   for default eye candy Vista and Windows 7 look so much better than Ubuntu
[23:44] <mzz> henken: if you don't have the old install anymore: consider trying off a 9.04 livecd
[23:44] <cybersplice> sebsebseb, sounds like my marriage. :D
[23:44] <mzz> henken: especially because as cybersplice said a failing hd will give similarly abysmal performance
[23:45] <mzz> sebsebseb: sure, but you can't actually do stuff with them without installing more software :P
[23:45] <cybersplice> sebsebseb, personal preference.
[23:45] <sebsebseb> it's been years of people  complaining about the default orange brown look
[23:45] <sebsebseb> well
[23:45] <cybersplice> henken, hdparm -d1 /dev/whatever
[23:45] <mzz> sebsebseb: I find http://129.125.102.164/m/firstrun.png somewhat typical of the problems windows still has
[23:45] <sebsebseb> I am used to it, I use it, I like it
[23:46] <henken> cybersplice, SMART shows no errors and reports healthy
[23:46] <sebsebseb> mzz: your own web server or something?
[23:46] <mzz> sebsebseb: yep
[23:46] <cybersplice> henken, SMART isn't always useful, mate.
[23:46] <cybersplice> mzz, NEIN!
[23:46]  * mzz can't be bothered to get a fullblown domain set up, but copying files to a directory there is easier than uploading them to some image hosting site
[23:46] <sebsebseb> Gnome 3 will probably be in the repo for 10.04, I wonder what that will be like
[23:46] <cybersplice> mzz, rather, NEE!
[23:46] <cybersplice> (sp?)
[23:47] <mzz> cybersplice: correct
[23:47] <mzz> (notice the system tray in that one)
[23:47] <cybersplice> mzz, i hate that.
[23:47] <drs305> CarlFK: Are you having any luck? I'm sorry I can't answer your questions.
[23:47] <sebsebseb> Ubuntu should theme the Grub screen like most other distros, that's something else
[23:47] <yoritomo> what are used for akonadi and ubuntu one ? i could not understand well reading the description ?
[23:47] <henken> cybersplice, it did work just a moment ago though, until I rebooted after an upgrade
[23:48] <cybersplice> henken, try that hdparm command.
[23:48] <cybersplice> maybe DMA got turned off.
[23:48] <mzz> yoritomo: ubuntu one is a (still somewhat beta-ish) service where you share files (and some other stuff) by uploading them to canonical-maintained servers
[23:48]  * sebsebseb maybe should sign up on brainstorm hmm
[23:48] <cybersplice> or maybe test it with hdparm -T /dev/whatever
[23:48] <mzz> yoritomo: its web site has more info (googling "ubuntu one" should help)
[23:48] <henken> cybersplice, inappropriate IOCTL error
[23:48] <cybersplice> sorry, try with sudo
[23:49] <henken> cybersplice, that's what I did
[23:49] <mzz> yoritomo: I don't use akonadi, but iirc it's one of those services that maintain a db of all your documents, allowing fast searches through their contents at the price of a bunch of background io during normal usage to keep the index up to date.
[23:50] <henken> cybersplice, I tested it with -T before, gives fast cached reads, but if I run with -t instead, the buffered reads are SLOW, that is, 1.5Mb/s
[23:50] <mzz> henken: if there's also a ton of cpu load during reads dma being off sounds likely. Again, compare dmesg from a working and slow system.
[23:50] <yoritomo> mzz a kind of google desktop then?
[23:50] <cybersplice> henken, sounds like hardware, to me. i just tested mine to make usre it's not a general bug, and get 75.99 meg a sec
[23:50] <mzz> yoritomo: I haven't used that one either.
[23:50] <yoritomo> ok thanks
[23:51] <mzz> yoritomo: but you're probably right
[23:51] <henken> mzz, a whole core goes to 100% during reads
[23:51] <mzz> henken: see above then.
[23:51] <sebsebseb> mzz: heh
[23:51] <sebsebseb> mzz: What's your point? WIndows startup rubbish, uh yes in most installs, because users don't know better
[23:51] <sebsebseb> most users
[23:52] <henken> mzz, -d gives an inappropirate ioctl error. hdparm -i shows that it is in udma5 mode
[23:52] <mzz> a fresh install of windows is full of useless stuff and lacks useful stuff
[23:52] <mzz> ubuntu comes with a bit more useful stuff and can win on making it trivial to get more useful stuff (software center, hopefully)
[23:52] <cybersplice> henken, can you paste the error?
[23:52] <henken> cybersplice,  HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device
[23:53] <mzz> problem there is teaching users better habits, since they won't necessarily know software center exists and works
[23:53] <joaopinto> mzz, they will know for sure, it's on the main apps menu
[23:53] <sebsebseb> mzz: well yes that's true Windows comes with a lot of software as part of it that isn't that greart/useful really, where as Ubuntu comes with Open Office, and Firefox, and so on
[23:53] <cybersplice> henken, do you happen to have an ati graphics card?
[23:54] <mzz> also drivers, although that's less of an issue with an oem install of windows (with relevant drivers bundled)
[23:54] <henken> cybersplice, no
[23:54] <henken> is it possible to use the good old IDE drivers instead of whatever fancy SCSI subsystem that everything uses now?
[23:54] <sebsebseb> mzz: Windows is  great for telling people about  their hardware and that in a nice graphical way,  this is where many Linux distros fail
[23:55] <mzz> henken: manually turning on dma using hdparm rarely works: the kernel should be turning that on if possible and reasonable. If it's off the most likely reason is some driver-related issue making it impossible to turn it on (either by the kernel during startup or using hdparm now). Did I mention you might want to look in dmesg for clues yet?
[23:55] <cybersplice> henken, what kernel are you usiing?
[23:55] <sebsebseb> mzz: Software Centre right, what about a hardware info centre or something like that
[23:56] <henken> cybersplice, 2.6.31-13
[23:56] <mzz> sebsebseb: there was a hal-based graphical treeview of installed hardware once. Not sure if that's still there in some form
[23:56] <cybersplice> server? generic?
[23:56] <cybersplice> not that it should make a huge difference.
[23:56] <henken> mzz, dmesg | grep sdc shows nothing odd to my eyes
[23:56] <sebsebseb> mzz: there's a graphical thing for one of the commands,  it wasn't that good either  and has to be installed, also HAL is on the verge of being replaced
[23:56] <sebsebseb> or whatever
[23:56] <cybersplice> sebsebseb, what's wrong with lshw |grep .. ? :D
[23:56] <mzz> henken: can you pastebin dmesg? Keep in mind just "|grep sdc" will usually miss messages about the controller hdc is on.
[23:57] <mzz> cybersplice: lack of graphical (remember the target audience we're talking about here)
[23:57] <sebsebseb> yes there's a  GUI app for lshw in the repo
[23:57] <henken> mzz, will do
[23:57] <cybersplice> henken, hdparm -i /dev/whatever
[23:57] <mzz> err, s/hdc/sdc/
[23:57] <cybersplice> mzz, i was joking. :)
[23:57] <sebsebseb> cybersplice: a lot of these commands the output  are just rather geekey to be honest,  espesailly RAM, it doesn't just tell you how much you got 512MB  1GB etc,  it says in megabytes or whatever
[23:57] <mzz> cybersplice: I'm out of coffee, and my humor-detector is caffeine-powered
[23:58] <joaopinto> hardin is not bad
[23:58] <cybersplice> mzz, put it back on charge!
[23:58] <joaopinto> hardinfo
[23:58] <henken> mzz, http://pastebin.com/d538871b2
[23:58] <cybersplice> sebsebseb, of course it's geeky. It's intended for administrators. 90% of home users don't need to see their hardware. I wasn't suggesting it as a real alternative to the devices manager, i was joking. :)
[23:59] <mom_> hi, is karmic koala noticeably fater than jaunty for booting?
[23:59]  * sebsebseb sort the things I just mentioned out, and  do whatever else as well, and  then  I think we will have a pretty good Ubuntu release  (maybe this is the wrong usage of /me, but whatever)
[23:59] <mom_> faster