cprofittwill there be IRC courses that have no Moodle component?00:00
cprofittI can live with a yes to both of those... just looking for clarity00:00
pleia2as I explained above, we want core material that will be used everywhere00:00
pleia2we can all follow the same basic course outlines, regardless of format00:00
cprofittbut in some cases the 'core' material already exists...00:01
cprofittMoodle will just 'link to it' and create exercises... quizzes...00:01
pleia2sorry, I thought I explained00:01
cprofittso asciidocs will just be a course outline...00:01
pleia2core material is outlines, content and links to content, etc00:01
cprofittwhat needs to be covered... resources... etc.00:01
cprofittthat paints things in a different light...00:02
cprofittbut if a Moodle course author wants to create a course in Moodle they will not be compelled to produce the outline in asciidoc00:02
cprofittit will be converted by a UCLP team00:02
pleia2we can try to convince them to convert it to asciidoc so the whole team can use it :) but they won't be required to, we can pick that up00:03
cprofittand there may be an IRC class that has an 'outline' but no Moodle component?00:03
pleia2if no one writes the moodle component, there won't be one00:03
cprofittor an in person class that has an 'outline' but no Moodle component00:04
pleia2it's going to be up to the teams to take the asciidoc outlines and put them into their format00:04
cprofittright... so if doc, who wants in-person classes, writes a course outline he will do it in asciidoc, but someone else would have to use his outline for a Moodle course00:04
pleia2that's the idea, I am not sure I like your "have to" though00:04
pleia2the core docs and such are collaborative, we all work on the core, we all draw from that pool00:05
cprofittI did not mean to imply have to... they could not use his outline00:05
cprofittbut if they wanted 'his' course in Moodle they would use his outline00:05
pleia2yeah, they could not, but at that point why be involved with us at all?00:05
pleia2the idea here is to collaborate on all fronts to create greate courses00:05
cprofittso my 'have to' was not meant in the way you took it... it was more of a 'this makes sense' thing00:05
pleia2ah, gotcha00:06
cprofittit would be kinda 'stupid' to want docs course and not use his outline00:06
cprofittsorry for the mis-communication there00:06
cprofittbodhi_zazen, you still following?00:06
pleia2I kinda see wiki+asciidoc to be were we do much of the collaboration00:07
bodhi_zazena little00:07
pleia2cprofitt: you have good points though, we should rely upon the wiki more00:07
cprofittk... just curious if that made sense to you...00:07
cprofittit does to me.00:07
cprofittlet me try to summarize what I am now understanding... note: I could be wrong00:07
bodhi_zazenpleia2: I think our core material should be on the Ubuntu wiki00:07
cprofittA)  Course ideas, content links, etc will be gathered on a wiki00:08
pleia2bodhi_zazen: so toss out asciidoc and bzr entirely?00:08
bodhi_zazenwe should organize the wiki information into coherent chunks00:08
bodhi_zazenand course outlines00:08
pleia2bodhi_zazen: so how do we handle translations and easy exports to pdf and other formats?00:08
bodhi_zazencourse Desktop00:08
bodhi_zazenObjective : foo bar00:09
bodhi_zazenWiki pages : 1,2,300:09
bodhi_zazenQuestions / self assessment00:09
cprofitteducators call it a rubric00:09
bodhi_zazenpeople use questions to see if they "understand" the material00:09
bodhi_zazensomething like that00:10
cprofittI still want to summarize what my understanding of what pleia was looking at...00:10
pleia2cprofitt: sorry, go ahead :)00:10
cprofittA) Course ideas, content links, etc will be on the wiki....00:10
bodhi_zazenwe probably need to generate things more like courses, course objectives, lists of wiki pages, etc00:10
cprofittB) Course outlines -- would be in ascii doc00:10
cprofittC) courses themselves would then either be printed, in IRC, or on Moodle00:10
bodhi_zazenwe contribute back by generating wiki pages or improving wiki pages or at least working with the wiki team00:10
pleia2cprofitt: pretty much00:11
cprofittbodhi_zazen, I agree...00:11
cprofittfrom what I am gathering no actual course information is in asciidoc00:11
pleia2course outlines would be more fleshed out, so we could immediately export them to pdf for live classroom use, for instance00:11
cprofittjust the rubric00:11
pleia2or drop them into a moodle book00:11
hal14450cprofitt, while i'm here i'd like to offer a sip account to anyone else that needs one if you want to do another conference call that way it doesn't cost me anything00:11
bodhi_zazenWe can tell the wiki team, biased on feed back from our desktop course, people would like to see the following improvements on page xyz00:12
pleia2asciidoc can be exported to pdf, so can easily be put into moodle00:12
hal14450just pm me if one is needed00:12
bodhi_zazenor people really liked the format of page abc, use it more00:12
cprofittthanks hal1445000:12
bodhi_zazenso we need a feedback mechanism00:12
cprofittpleia2, but unless I am mistaken nothing we have discussed being in the asciidoc would go in to Moodle00:13
cprofittI think it might help to have one complete course -- as an example...00:13
pleia2cprofitt: now I'm confused :) I thought course outlines would go into moodle..?00:13
pleia2when we discuss course outlines, I kinda have in mind what doctormo has already produced00:14
pleia2all of that stuff can be dumped into moodle as html almost as-is00:14
cprofittthat is a rough outline in Moodle00:14
cprofittwith not content linked in yet00:14
pleia2I understand00:14
cprofittis that what you are referring too?00:15
pleia2are you saying doctormo's current material can't be put into that format in moodle? I don't understand why not00:15
pleia2it seems pretty much the same00:15
cprofittpleia2, I am not saying it can't be00:15
pleia2ok, why wouldn't it be?00:15
cprofittcertainly a person could both do the outline and actual course in asciidoc00:15
cprofittbut what we had discussed is the outline would be in asciidoc00:16
pleia2as I said, the outline would be more than what you have in that moodle course00:16
cprofittthat content there appears to have an outline and some content00:16
pleia2it would be a fleshed out course, ready to put into moodle or be printed00:16
pleia2yes, content and links to content00:16
pleia219:10:49 < cprofitt> C) courses themselves would then either be printed, in IRC, or on Moodle <-- I see this as minimal tweaks to core fleshed out outlines, only done to get it put into the proper format00:17
pleia2so A is the information gathering stage00:17
cprofittso in the case of a course for printing the content, outline, links, etc... would be in asciidoc00:17
pleia2B is the course development stage00:17
pleia2C is where we port the material to different formats00:17
cprofittbut in the case of a Moodle course the outline would be in asciidoc and the content, links, quizzes, etc... would be in Moodle00:18
cprofittif another person wanted to 'pull' the Moodle content and links they could do so00:18
* pleia2 sighs00:18
cprofittbut the author of the Moodle course would not be required to put it in asciidoc00:18
pleia2I don't understand where we arent communicating here00:18
cprofittI do not either...00:19
cprofittbut it is likely because we have no 'complete' example00:19
Vantraxone point I would like to make, only rely on links in the ubuntu ecosystem00:19
Vantraxif its outside that i would rather replicate it00:19
pleia2sure, we'll allow people to skip B and go right to developing things themselves in Moodle, since requiring them to use asciidoc is a barrier to entry00:19
pleia2the team can pull it from C back into B for collboration, improvement and redistribution to other formats00:20
cprofittso what do we do with this type of resource pleia2  - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/BashScripting00:20
VantraxSo wiki.ubuntu.com/sometopic or help.ubunt is a good link, we have some degree of control and know it will be maintained, but external sites might not be00:21
pleia2but I want it to be clear that we're offering this option as an easy to entry, and that it means the course developer won't get the benefits of collaboration00:21
cprofittthat wiki appears to cross some of what is in docs course I just linked00:21
cprofittdo we pull that wiki in to an asciidoc... or just use the wiki00:21
pleia2cprofitt: we'd link to it...00:21
pleia2no, we don't pull anything from the wiki into asciidoc00:21
cprofittso any improvement would be done directly in the wiki00:21
cprofittand the asciidoc would only contain the 'goals' 'introduction' and a link to that wiki00:22
pleia2whatever we write in the courses will be written because we're trying to teach it, we're not rewriting reference material00:22
cprofittbut some of what was in docs course is in this wiki...00:22
pleia2cprofitt: I guess I'm confused, it seems like you're saying moodle will not be linked, it'll be pulling wiki content into moodle00:22
pleia2I don't understand00:22
cprofittthat is why I was asking...00:23
VantraxI think wiki is background information, or relevent helpful information in understanding00:23
VantraxI think Moodle should be on how to apply information to make it knowledge00:23
cprofittno, Moodle would link people to this wiki article00:23
pleia2right, docs course stuff probably needs to be fixed to point to more already existing resources00:23
cprofittjust like giving a student a reading assignment00:23
cprofittthen the Moodle course would given them questions to check for understanding00:23
pleia2cprofitt: ok, so asciidoc will link to the wiki, moodle will link tothe wiki, what are we arguing about?00:23
cprofittwe are not arguing...00:23
pleia2sorry, where is the misunderstanding?00:23
Vantraxnot just questions cp, further information, tips on application to try and build understanding00:24
cprofittI am trying to understand the process that developed while I was not able to attend meetings00:24
pleia2docs courses need to leverage the wiki more, I agree00:24
cprofittVantrax, yes... if that is there.00:24
cprofittpleia2, I am not poking at things for argument...00:24
cprofittI am just honestly trying to piece things together00:24
VantraxI always thought moodle was a place where everything comes together00:24
cprofittVantrax, from what pleia2 said it will not be...00:25
pleia2Vantrax: sure, if you're teaching in a classroom with internet, or in independent study00:25
Vantraxuse of information on the wiki, help, and asciidoc as well in a combined format00:25
cprofittfor on-line Moodle courses it will be00:25
pleia2Vantrax: but that is not the case for all our avenues :)00:25
pleia2we have netless classroom courses, we have irc courses00:25
cprofittfor off-line in-person courses or IRC courses Moodle may not be used at all00:25
* pleia2 nods00:25
Vantraxthe export file 'asciidoc' would be the way for people to use the content offline00:25
* pleia2 sighs00:26
pleia2I give up for now00:26
pleia2I'll come back later to talk about this00:26
cprofittin some cases the asciidoc would be rather useless for off-line courses if it links to too many on-line resources00:26
Vantraxwhich would duplicated relevant information from moodle and wiki, else im not sure how people could use it offline00:26
cprofittpleia2, ok... sorry it is frustrating00:26
cprofittVantrax, no...00:26
cprofittthe asciidoc will not contain the wiki content00:26
cprofittit would just contain the link information00:27
pleia2cprofitt: I'm sorry too, I just feel like I'm explaining the same thing for the 2nd time today (and probably 10th time in the past couple weeks)00:27
pleia2and I'm tired from work all day :)00:27
cprofittso exporting the asciidoc would not really fill an off-line course00:27
cprofittthe wiki would have to be printed as well...00:27
cprofittpleia2, no skin off of my nose00:27
cprofittI appreciate you being willing to help me understand00:27
* pleia2 cracks open beer and enjoys some QT with the television <300:27
pleia2of course :)00:27
cprofittVantrax, do you follow that?00:28
VantraxI think that is the problem or limitation with 'offline' you would have to print alot of resources not intended for that00:30
cprofitttrue... but that would be the responsibility of the course author00:31
cprofittI actually think this could work... as a concept...00:31
cprofittthough I think the Canonical interpretation of what we were doing (as well as mine) was different based on our early focus on Moodle00:32
cprofittif we truly just become an agent to organize a course...00:33
cprofittthen the method of delivery becomes a non-issue00:33
cprofittit seems as though we do not develop full courses... but blueprints for doing so...00:33
VantraxI would like to see us do both...00:34
pleia2real quick, then I'll stop talking for real - I agree with Vantrax, we do both, but I come from the Ubuntu Classroom project where I found talent and had them do classes00:35
pleia2this project, for me, was a larger extension of that00:36
pleia2we find smart people, they write courses, we make them blueprints for use elsewhere00:36
cprofitt+1 pleia200:36
cprofittVantrax, I would like to do both...00:37
cprofittbut we may only hit one of three methods in the initial course00:37
pleia2yeah, but the goal is grander :)00:37
cprofittand then, through that, create a blueprint for authors to make a course for the other delivery methods00:37
pleia2we don't have to reach the goal right away, but it's the dream00:37
* pleia2 x-files &00:37
cprofittdon't lie to me is what I am watching tonight00:38
* Vantrax is at work >.<00:41
cprofitton Tuesday no less00:42
cprofittI am still here in Monday00:42
cprofittyour part of the world is just 'fast'00:42
doctormopleia2, cprofitt, Vantrax, someone explain to me what's going on, why have I just had a contributor to this project walk away?02:26
cprofittdoctormo, my opinion or just the log?02:27
Vantraxwho walked away02:29
doctormocprofitt: Both please02:30
pleia2yikes, he left over it?02:31
doctormoVantrax: BiosElement,02:32
pleia2mostly a it was a misunderstanding, cprofitt and I hashed through a lot of it this evening02:32
doctormoI didn't think there was anything to go through to be honest02:32
doctormoI know there is a narrow minded push towards moodle only development, but I figured we could work around that and actually get something working where by non-moodlites could be involved.02:33
doctormoSo this is why I'm asking: What happened02:34
pleia2yep, that's what we discussed, general workflow02:34
cprofitthere you go doctormo - http://pastebin.com/d3a44394302:34
VantraxBasically, no one is required to work in asciidoc, but we are wanting to have everything replicated into asciidoc for offline/classroom etc02:34
pleia2BiosElement left before this whole discussion though02:34
cprofittdoctormo, there is no 'narrow minded' push towards anything02:34
cprofittbut there is a lot of using 'negative' terms to demean certain contributors to the project02:35
doctormocprofitt: If you were at the last meeting, it was pretty much a brow beating, it wasn't a dicussion at all.02:35
cprofittwe could really remember that we are all on the same team... there may be a lack of understanding on some people's parts02:35
cprofittbut there is not narrow mindedness02:35
cprofittnor is there any effort to 'garden wall' the project02:36
cprofittI was here the last meeting -- I am pretty sure I was the person running it02:36
doctormocprofitt: I speak of perception, don't read into it.02:36
cprofittthe problem is that using terms like narrow mindedness is an ad-hominem attack02:36
cprofittit does nothing but create a negative atmoshpere02:36
cprofittand bears no fruit that is edible02:37
cprofittas to my opinion why bioselement left -- lack of maturity02:37
cprofittbut mind you that is just my opinion02:37
doctormoDo you think they are my words? I told you not to read into it02:37
cprofittI am not reading in to it -- regardless of who owns the words they are counter-productive02:38
Vantraxdoctormo, he didnt, relax:P02:38
Vantraxwe are all friends here02:38
doctormoWe are, I've had a hard weekend having attacks thrown at me from gnome people, man do they hate Ubuntu.02:39
* pleia2 hugs doctormo 02:42
cprofittgnomes... just tell them Orcs are on the way to their homes02:44
Vantraxyeah, the gnome people are very nasty02:46
Vantraxthey think Ubuntu stole their users..02:46
* doctormo reads "<cprofitt> as is .docx" and blinks02:46
cprofittwell... .docx is a standard... never said a good one02:46
Vantraxits not really a standard...02:46
Vantraxthere was the really dodgy bribed vote that made it one02:46
Vantraxthat is getting looked into now and will probably be overturned02:47
cprofittI hope so...02:47
cprofittI hope the i4i company gets another verdict in their favor too.02:47
doctormoOK so, firstly cprofitt, I do take issue with you calling into question BiosElement's maturity. Nothing in the way that logged conversation was handled was out of bounds, insulting or other wise derogitory.02:48
doctormoBiosElement is and was a great contributor, he did a lot of research to figure out the best ways of ammadating the majority of people. I can't just forget his contributions and his good manners, if anything I think you were more out of line to call him out of line. If we as imperfect human beings can't make incorrect judgements and be corrected, then we are damned anyway.02:52
cprofittdoctormo, the conversation is not why I drew the maturity conclusion02:52
cprofittthe leaving over it is02:52
cprofittThere was no need for him to say we were 'garden walling' the project02:53
doctormoAre we not?02:53
doctormoHe need or lack of is not in question, that is not insulting.02:53
doctormoI don't understand where you can find an insult in there, even if you disagree with his view.02:54
cprofittexplain how it is Garden Walled02:54
cprofittI was merely trying to figure out how all this stuff is 'fitting' together02:54
cprofittNO where in the conversation did I throw a wall up...02:55
Vantraxthe focus on moodle and moodles lack of easy exportability might have been his point02:58
Vantraxjust guessin, I wasnt there02:59
doctormoAnd what if you did or didn't, it's not about what BiosElement's goddly powers set down as the right and wrongs of the universe. You gotta accept people's opinions without flipping out that it's insulting you.02:59
cprofittdoctormo, did I leave the conversation03:01
cprofittdoctormo, did I leave the project?03:01
cprofitthe could have said -- sorry I did not mean it that way... or he could have explained it03:01
cprofittI still would like to know how I was building a walled garden...03:01
doctormocprofitt: I don't think he should have to fight you on that, you can call into question his logic, but not his freedom to be wrong in the first place.03:01
cprofitthow did I call in to question his freedom?03:02
cprofittor do I not have the same right to be 'wrong' as you put it?03:03
doctormo<cprofitt> in fact I consider it to be insulting03:03
cprofittand how does my considering something to be insulting inhibit freedom?03:03
doctormoI would consider it to be worse to call into question someones motives regarding their behviour than it is to question a group's archatectual direction.03:04
cprofittI was not calling in to question his motives... I was calling in to question his choice of 'words'03:04
cprofittdoctormo, I can understand you are upset he chose to leave.03:04
cprofittI can appreciate that your emotional response is to blame me03:05
cprofittbut I think it is incorrect to blame me.03:05
doctormoI'm actually concerned that as a community leader your not living up to the code of being even more respectful of contributors and people who are not as privilaged to be sitting on the board of a project.03:05
doctormoI don't think it's good treatment to say that something that boring is insulting.03:06
cprofittI respectfully disagree with you.03:06
cprofittpleia2, are you here?03:06
doctormoWe will have to agree to disagree.03:07
cprofittI think it now goes deeper sir03:07
cprofittas you have leveled a very serious charge in my eyes03:07
doctormoIf you insist on it.03:07
pleia2I think it was all a misunderstanding that got out of hand, we all have put a lot of work into this and it hurts when we feel like our work is ignored (whether or not that is the intention)03:07
cprofittyes, but doctormo has leveled a very serious accusation against me03:08
cprofitt<doctormo> I'm actually concerned that as a community leader your not living up to the code of being even more respectful of contributors and people who are not as privilaged to be sitting on the board of a project.03:08
pleia2I think you're both reading too much into specific words and blowing things a bit out of proportion03:08
cprofittwhile I can understand he is emotional about this right now - I would not want to take such a charge lightly03:08
cprofittas certainly one should not be tossed around so easily03:08
doctormocprofitt, do you not find it ironic that you of all people should talk about restraint of tossing around such things?03:09
cprofittNo, but please explain why you do.03:09
doctormoMy reasons for doubting you lie squarly on your over reaction.03:09
cprofittYou have been full of accusations and extremely short on actually giving me an explanation03:10
pleia2I think we all need to back off for a bit and get our goals straight and have a calm discussion03:10
pleia2that isn't going to happen tonight03:10
cprofittI have no problems having a calm discussion tonight... but later can work as well.03:11
swoodyAs a completely unbiased fly-on-the-wall I have to agree with pleia2 here03:11
cprofittI certainly would prefer to not have things be emotionally charged03:11
swoodyI think emotions are running high, and things are not going to get any better in this manner03:11
swoodyI think after letting this cool, maybe we can become a team again? Re-focus on the real goals of this project, and put aside our differences of opinion for the greater good of the team.03:12
pleia2even I'm getting upset over this, and I'm a pretty calm person :)03:12
swoodypleia2, a glass of wine helps ;)03:12
pleia2swoody: beer is more my style, and did that earlier when I started to get upset ;)03:13
pleia2now I'm back and happy again!03:13
swoodypleia2, well a good brew works, too :)03:13
doctormoNow I will attempt to get BiosElement back on side, he won't help us if we're only using moodle for development, in fact he won't help us if he thinks people will be creating deltas in moodle. So it'll going to be a one in a million bet he'll want to stay.03:14
swoodydoctormo and cprofitt I hope you don't mind me intervening in this nature, but I do feel it would be the best course of action to all take a deep breath, and take a look at this with un-stressed eyes. Do you agree?03:14
pleia2doctormo: we aren't only using moodle03:14
cprofittdoctormo, no where did I say only Moodle.03:14
cprofittswoody - I do not mind.03:15
doctormopleia2: I know, but perception is often the evil of clarity.03:15
pleia2doctormo: I agree03:15
pleia2can you guys give me some time to draft up a document about what cprofitt and I discussed this afternoon?03:15
cprofittclarity is gained through asking questions - as I have been trying to do... not leaving the team.03:15
pleia2I think it will clear up a lot of questions about workflow and contribution vector options03:15
cprofittpleia2, I hope so...03:15
cprofittit is still a little murky to me, but I can understand it a bit better.03:16
cprofittthe real issue seems to be three 'methods' of delivery03:16
pleia2yeah, It's the murkyness that's getting everyone upset03:16
cprofittwhich have little in common with each other03:16
doctormocprofitt: Don't think bad of him loosing his will to remain, he was on the edge after the meeting.03:16
cprofittso we need to really define the common part.03:16
cprofittI will not think bad of him doctormo03:16
cprofittI actually like to help people 'grow'03:17
doctormoSo you no longer think he's immature to quit as he did?03:17
cprofittand have done so with many people in the BT03:17
pleia2doctormo: I didn't realize he was ever on edge :(03:17
cprofittthinking a person is immature does not mean I think badly of him03:17
cprofittit means he needs to gaine wisdom03:17
cprofittI am guessing he is under 25 - potentially under 2103:17
cprofittand I understand that when I was that age I would have had absolutely no comprehension that I lacked any maturity03:18
doctormocprofitt: No, it means you think he needs to gain wisdom... not quite the same absolute.03:18
cprofittI also understand that maturity is not always connected with age03:18
cprofittcould be tied up in semantics doctormo03:18
cprofittfor me maturity and wisdom are very closely related...03:19
pleia2I think this is the wrong discussion to have right now03:19
doctormoI actually thought he was quite mature, he didn't vent his fustrations emotionally, he didn't insult anyone or send some moppy message. Fairly adult.03:19
cprofittI will cease at pleia2's request and swoody's suggestion as well.03:20
pleia2I'll try to finish a workflow draft based on discussions earlier and post it to the list03:20
pleia2hopefully tonight03:21
doctormopleia2: I'm thinking we may have a two step process, considering cprofitt's point in the log about using external references, I think that shaping courses and organising classes are one set of goals and the other is writing materials. I wonder if it would be good to section these two off. what i don't want is an undefined mess of uncollaberation where everyone is using their own tools to do things just so we can develop things in03:23
doctormomoodle. A flexibility here might be bad for structure.03:23
pleia2doctormo: essentially what we discussed had 3 parts (I'll flesh this out in the email):03:24
pleia2A) Collaborative discussion and outlining on the wiki03:24
doctormopleia2: wonderful, I look forward to it.03:24
pleia2B) Further development and fleshing out in bzr+asciidoc for documents that can then be used as core materialfor live classes, irc and moodle03:25
pleia2C) Putting said material from B into those formats - live classes, irc, moodle03:25
pleia2now, the issue that is upsetting people is ease of contribution03:25
pleia2so we want to allow for someone to give an IRC session from material outlined in the wiki, but maybe they don't want to/don't have the time to formally put it in asciidoc - they're too busy being a brilliant kernel hacker03:26
pleia2same goes for someone who may want to do development in moodle, or just give us notes from a real life class they gave03:27
pleia2it's all very valuable stuff, so even if they skip step B, it can be our job to collect these great resources and put them into asciidoc03:27
pleia2but I think we want to make it clear that our process is A, B, C - and that method is the best for the project and will gain most collaboration and usefulness03:28
doctormoSeems very well thought out.03:28
pleia2if you choose to directly go from A to C, we'll allow it because we want to see good material come in and the project grow, but it's not the ideal in the perfect world03:28
cprofittI also want to understand how a Moodle course will benefit from asciidocs -- at this point I do not understand it03:29
cprofittI see how an in-person format does03:29
cprofittand how it allows us flexibility03:29
pleia2it's taking the vague wiki outline of A and putting it into something more professional, that can be exported as .html and imported into moodle03:30
cprofittbut in some cases the material in the asciidoc might just be no more than an outline - and links; right?03:31
pleia2in some cases, yes03:31
cprofittso in some cases the asciidoc will not be sufficient to really produce an in-person course03:32
cprofittbecause there will be no content there...03:32
pleia2the instructor is given links to the material03:32
cprofittin that case the 'linked' material will have to be printed as well03:32
pleia2it's "there"03:32
pleia2there is hardly a difference between printing a wiki page and copying the wiki page into an asciidoc and printing it03:33
pleia2this is where C comes in, each group will need to mold the material for their needs03:33
cprofittbut we would not just copy it... that would be what the off-line course writer would do - right?03:35
pleia2we never just copy the wiki page03:35
pleia2I think that's something the offline course writer will have to determine, how best to ship wiki pages with courses03:36
pleia2er, offline course writer team03:36
doctormoI think there is a real discussion about how self contained courses ort to be,03:37
doctormoI didn't like writing a course which referenced material as a part of the core learning objectives, I always considered links to be extras, learn more, extra credit.03:37
cprofittdoctormo, in our original charter -- we wanted to work with existing teams and existing content03:38
doctormoWe do, and that is03:38
cprofittthat is why the idea, at least for me, is to not replicate wiki pages03:38
doctormoSome of this material is not documentation, some of it is has ended up in other projects because of a lack of a format course writing project.03:38
cprofittbut have them refer to them as reading material...03:38
cprofittand then add value to that by developing exercises... and putting together a series of wiki pages to make a meaningful course03:39
doctormoWe shouldn't think that the wiki page is the correct place for all materials just because it was written there first, it may be that we need to talk with the authors and consider it more carefully.03:39
cprofittso I would not include that material in my Moodle course or in an asciidoc03:39
cprofittI am not saying it is a correct place for 'all' materials03:39
cprofittjust that if one exists then we should use it03:39
cprofittand not feel as though we need to reproduced it03:40
doctormoPerhaps we do anyway,03:40
pleia2maybe discussing actual examples would be a better approach03:40
doctormoWiki pages are often wirtten in a way that seems to be different in format and pacing to learning materials.03:40
pleia2and do this at a meeting later03:41
pleia2cprofitt: maybe you flesh out some moodle stuff with how you'll be incorporating wiki links into coursework?03:41
cprofittthat is what I made those two pages for pleia203:41
pleia2doctormo: maybe you show some examples where wiki pages are written as reference material and are not suitable for learning?03:41
cprofittI was having problems explaining it... so wanted to create an actual reference course or two03:42
pleia2then we come back and collaborate03:42
pleia2cprofitt: yeah, I think that's what we want to do03:42
cprofittI really think some of this is being lost in a lack of understanding... and concrete examples would help03:42
* pleia2 nods03:42
doctormoExample1, documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LDAPAuthentication03:44
pleia2doctormo: can we do this later, when you both have examples prepared?03:44
pleia2otherwise this discussion ends up kinda one-sided03:45
doctormopleia2: I didn't think this was a contest of some kind, I figured It's just for clairty.03:45
pleia2doctormo: well, I'm backing off for the evening03:45
doctormoAye ok, I think this day has runit's course and it's not produced much.03:46
doctormoHey BiosElement06:42
doctormoDid you hear I spend the weekend at the Gnome Summit at MIT?06:42
doctormoThere was a guy at the Gnome Summit who was very interested in what we're doing07:10
doctormoI think he works for Sun, but does stuff on Gnome07:10
doctormoHe does accessability07:10
doctormoSo he was wondering if since we make courses for Ubuntu, some of them would be useful to gnome. And thus might be ready in a position to be made accessable.07:11
pleia2#ubuntu-it ?17:40
Bradyyes  ubuntu17:40
Bradyonly english?17:41
ibuclawBrady, you mean what languages ubuntu is in?17:42
ibuclawafaik, it's a good 42+17:42
ibuclawfrom Africaan to Zulu17:42
Bradyor a problem with the use of the terminal, when I write in terminal sudo asking for the password but does not make me17:46
Bradyexscusme for my english but i usit the traslation tools of firefox17:46
pleia2Brady: try asking in #ubuntu-it17:47
Bradyok thanks17:47
swoodyGood morning everyone :)17:50
pleia2g'day swoody17:51
=== BiosElement_ is now known as BiosElement
swoodyg'day to you too pleia2 :)17:52
swoodyhow're you doing today?17:52
doctormoHey swoody17:53
pleia2swoody: good! you?17:53
* doctormo congratulates pleia2 on negotiating a peace treaty last night.17:54
swoodyhello doctormo :)17:54
swoodypleia2, oh, I can't complain.... wait, yes I can - no coffee yet :(17:54
pleia2doctormo: thanks, I hope it works out (do I get a pre-emptive nobel now?)17:55
pleia2swoody: oh! coffee is very important17:55
doctormopleia2: Harmony first, nobel peace prize later17:56
swoodypleia2, indeed :)17:56
swoodydoctormo, so how's your day treating you?17:57
doctormoIt's not been treating me very long actually, and even then the treat has dark chocolate with nuts in it, and I hate nuts.17:57
swoodydoctormo, well the dark chocolate sounds great though :)18:03
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