[00:33] <awe> TheMuso, hey was wondering what happened with pulse / rtkit.  Last time we spoke, you mentioned that you'd be uploading a version of pulse without the rtkit dependency?
[00:36] <TheMuso> awe: Right, I'll upload pulse with the dep removed today. I was waiting to see if there was anything else that had to be pushed as well.
[00:36] <awe> TheMuso, ok, cool...  I checked it earlier today and notice it was still there, so just wanted to double-check with you.
[00:37] <awe> TheMuso, been playing drums at all lately?  UDSJam looks like it may happen again in Dallas.
[00:42] <TheMuso> awe: No, as I don't have access to a kit. I am moving to a new place in a couple of months so don't have the money to get one either, although I do intend to save to get one.
[00:43] <TheMuso> awe: As for the jam, thats cool.
[00:44] <awe> TheMuso, ah, ok.  Well, we'll have pete's electronic kit setup all week for practice
[00:44] <TheMuso> right but I am not sure I'll bother. After playing that, I never want to play rubber pads for a kit again.
[00:44] <awe> TheMuso, we're trying to work some kinks out of the whole thing so that we can get more community involvement, but also still entertain folks
[00:44] <awe> doh
[00:44] <TheMuso> great
[00:45] <awe> well, we'll have a keyboard too!
[00:45] <TheMuso> thats good
[00:45] <awe> anyways, thanks for the rtkit info
[00:45] <TheMuso> np
[00:45] <awe> time for dinner
[04:11] <dtchen> TheMuso: fixed alsa-utils, pushed to my bzr branch and uploaded to the PPA. Sorry, I really did test across Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Xubuntu on three different machines before making that change.
[04:13] <TheMuso> dtchen: np
[04:13] <TheMuso> dtchen: I'll give it a few hours to get tested by users. I'll upload it late this evening so it can be given a chance to be tested.
[04:18] <dtchen> TheMuso: thanks
[04:55] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Welcome back.
[04:59] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, hey, gdm testing...
[05:00] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: No the fact you haven't been online all day. I thought you had an ISP outage.
[05:01] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, I was on this morning but I have to keep restarting X to test GDM
[05:18] <mac_v> dobey: around?
[05:28] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: ah ok. I hope your connectivity is better today in any case.
[05:45] <lifeless> robert_ancell: if you had another machine you could run bip or some such:)
[05:46] <robert_ancell> lifeless, bip?
[05:48] <lifeless> apt-cache show bip
[05:49] <Jack87> hi all
[05:50] <Jack87> i have a question about dual monitors i cant get it to function right
[05:51] <Jack87> i am on a laptop with a nvidia video card so to change display settings it is done under nvidia x server settings
[05:51] <Jack87> do i need to set it as twin view in configuration or spread x screen for an extended desktop... but leave the laptop panel as the main screen
[05:53] <Jack87> when i set it to twin view extended desktop works fine except it makes my lower task bar go to the second screen and top bar go to the second screen. my desktop icons remain on the first screen
[05:53] <Jack87> ok weird..
[05:53] <Jack87> when it asked me if it was ok i said cancel
[05:54] <Jack87> and then did it again and now everything works perfecct
[06:00] <mac_v> !topic | Jack87
[06:41] <superm1> robert_ancell, perhaps you might be able to help with a question i've got.  i've got an app that i'm running on both xfce and gnome.  on xfce, button images show up on my buttons, but not on gnome.  is there a gtk property somewhere i'm missing that needs to be set and is normally overridden in a gnome environment?
[06:42] <robert_ancell> superm1, gconf key /desktop/gnome/interface/buttons_have_icons
[06:43] <robert_ancell> The GNOME default is no icons, I'm not sure what sets it
[06:43] <superm1> robert_ancell, ah ha!
[06:43] <superm1> is there a way to override it on a per-application basis then?
[06:44] <robert_ancell> superm1, I don't think so but you can mark the buttons as requiring their icon
[06:44]  * robert_ancell looking...
[06:45] <robert_ancell> superm1, this may help: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkSettings.html#GtkSettings--gtk-button-images
[06:45] <superm1> robert_ancell, great thanks.  definitely a step in the right direction
[06:45] <robert_ancell> superm1, ah I found it, it is for menus you can explicitly require the image: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkImageMenuItem.html#gtk-image-menu-item-get-always-show-image
[06:46] <superm1> robert_ancell, oh but shame, such a thing doesn't exist for buttons huh.
[06:47] <robert_ancell> superm1, if you really needed the icon you could make a button with a HBox with the image and label explicitly provided (yuck)
[06:47] <superm1> robert_ancell, yeah i've got a few buttons that i had done that, and this explains why those were still working on gnome
[07:16] <Zdra> kenvandine, About bug #435329: I hope last comment is a joke, right?
[07:16] <Zdra> kenvandine, really if that can't be fixed please just drop your empathy patch
[08:09] <mac_v> anyone know where i can find Kees Cook?
[08:39] <robert_ancell_> bryce_, the radeon KMS seems to be working really well!
[08:42] <pitti> Good morning
[08:45] <didrocks> hey pitti
[08:45] <didrocks> lut seb128
[08:46] <seb128> hey didrocks, everybody
[08:49] <didrocks> meld upstream is really responsive :)
[08:50] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:50] <bryce_> robert_ancell, excellent
[08:50] <didrocks> hello chrisccoulson :)
[08:50] <chrisccoulson> hello didrocks!
[08:51] <robert_ancell> bryce_, I've noticed that text mode is still broken without KMS... Do I file that against xorg or the kernel?
[08:51] <bryce_> kernel
[08:51] <robert_ancell> bryce_, and the kernel directly or the radeon module?
[08:53] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, i will apply your other g-p-m patch later if hughsie hasn't done already
[08:54] <pitti> chrisccoulson: good morning
[08:54] <pitti> chrisccoulson: thanks!
[08:54] <pitti> chrisccoulson: no, I just git fetched/rebased, not done yet
[08:54]  * robert_ancell is not looking forward to pushing all the gdm patches upstream after Karmic is released - we're carrying 26 at the moment
[08:54] <pitti> chrisccoulson: so I guess the "error == NULL" fix is optional now
[08:54] <chrisccoulson> you should apply for GIT access though:)
[08:54] <pitti> robert_ancell: many of them should already be in an upstream bug, though
[08:54] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think so
[08:55] <pitti> robert_ancell: at least I usually forward mine, and tag them with the upstream bug
[08:55] <robert_ancell> pitti, yeah but most of them require massaging to be committed :)
[08:55] <robert_ancell> pitti, you're not going to like the hack to make the guest session switch - there's some aweful bug deep down I can't find so I've worked around it...
[08:56] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson pitti robert_ancell
[08:56] <seb128> chrisccoulson, pitti: good work on this gpm bug!
[08:56] <robert_ancell> seb128, hey
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[08:57] <seb128> robert_ancell, we already pushed a good part of the gdm work upstream no?
[08:57] <seb128> they just suck at reviewing those
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> upstream GDM?
[08:57] <seb128> yes
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> noone reviewed my patch to port the greeter to dk-power yet
[08:58] <chrisccoulson> and i submtted that ages ago!
[08:58] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah most of it's just sitting there.  They seem to want it to be perfect before they commit though so there's some stuff to change there
[08:58] <robert_ancell> I think I'm going to try and be a GDM developer this cycle so we can get some progress
[08:59] <seb128> robert_ancell, well we have also easy ones which could be commited and that nobody reviewed
[08:59] <seb128> robert_ancell, and they clearly don't read bugzilla since they asked me the bzr command to get the ubuntu source because they wanted to look at the power action menu change
[08:59] <seb128> ie they didn't notice it was in bugzilla
[08:59] <robert_ancell> seb128, ah you said earlier - I couldn't see any comments on the bugzlilla bug
[09:00] <robert_ancell> there's a pile of bugs in that bugzilla that should be closed, all the 2.20 stuff
[09:00] <seb128> right
[09:00] <robert_ancell> afaik everyone is using the head now right?  It was just us and Sun using 2.20?
[09:01] <seb128> though some distro still use 2.20 and the old maintainer still roll tarballs
[09:01] <seb128> robert_ancell, no, debian still use 2.20
[09:01] <seb128> not sure about Sun I think they need to multiseat work to land
[09:01] <seb128> which didn't happen for 2.28
[09:01] <seb128> but maybe they have their own version now with those changes
[09:01] <robert_ancell> the work that is being committed seems to be coming from sun so I guess they're planning to get the new one
[09:02] <seb128> oh, robert_ancell fixed the gdm translation issue I had on my list for today
[09:02] <seb128> one less thing to do ;-)
[09:02] <seb128> robert_ancell, right, I was just wondering if they will use this cycle
[09:02] <robert_ancell> seb128, oh I was going to ask - how do we get the 2.28.1 releases in in time?  Aren't they released after the final freeze?
[09:02] <seb128> or if that's still work in progress there
[09:03] <seb128> robert_ancell, we have a sort of standing exception
[09:03] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah dunno.  Don't know what cycle they run on
[09:03] <robert_ancell> seb128, so when is the final final freeze?
[09:03] <seb128> robert_ancell, let's say we will package only bug fix tarballs and not weird change and get those reviewed and aceepted
[09:03] <robert_ancell> (i.e. the CD making time)
[09:03] <seb128> robert_ancell, around thursday or wednesday next week I would say
[09:04] <seb128> dpm, hi
[09:04] <robert_ancell> seb128, sure, that's what .1 release is _supposed_ to be right?  I pushed all the .1 changes on gcalctool as .deb patches because I wasn't sure they were going to get in in time!!
[09:04] <seb128> dpm, I think you forgot about gdmsetup? I did email the translator about it meanwhile now
[09:04]  * robert_ancell thanks the testers who find calculation bugs at the 11th hour
[09:04] <seb128> robert_ancell, usually tarballs are rolled on monday
[09:05] <seb128> robert_ancell, and all hands are on deck to get those in quickly
[09:05] <dpm> seb128, hey, good morning sorry for not having been too responsive last week, I was at a sprint. I noticed your e-mail on ubuntu-translators. Thanks a lot
[09:05] <seb128> dpm, no problem, you're welcome
[09:05] <seb128> robert_ancell, let's say we have monday european time and your thursday to get those updates
[09:06] <seb128> ie we will do sponsoring for you on thursday morning
[09:06] <robert_ancell> seb128, so the 22nd, "ReleaseCandidate" is the really final freeze
[09:06] <seb128> and that be done with what we can get in
[09:06] <seb128> robert_ancell, release candidate is "if nothing is screwed that will be karmic"
[09:06] <seb128> robert_ancell, ie no image respin if there is no reason to do one
[09:07] <robert_ancell> seb128, desktop team lives on the edge :)
[09:07] <seb128> robert_ancell, yes ;-)
[09:07] <mac_v> seb128: hi... Where can i find Kees Cook?
[09:07] <seb128> mac_v, he's kees on this IRC
[09:07] <seb128> mac_v, #ubuntu-devel for example
[09:07] <seb128> mac_v, but it's probably after work hour for him now
[09:07] <mac_v> oh devel.. thanks
[09:08] <robert_ancell> pitti, do you have any ideas about bug 292533 - if you restart your box in the middle of a guest session you can never start another as the user account is already there.  Is this a pre-Karmic issue?
[09:09] <pitti> robert_ancell: I think in the past it just re-used the guest account
[09:09] <pitti> and it's still meant to be that way
[09:09] <pitti> robert_ancell: please assign to me
[09:10] <robert_ancell> pitti, done.  I think it's the last major issue affecting guest sessions
[09:12] <mac_v> pitti: hi... does apport use a fixed size the 22px or the 24px icon for panel ? [like how messaging menu uses only 22px icon] or does it depend on the panel size?
[09:13] <robert_ancell> seb128, pitti - my queue is empty so point me at anything that is important you guys don't solve today
[09:14]  * robert_ancell regrets saying the last statement
[09:14] <seb128> lol
[09:14] <pitti> robert_ancell: oh, great job!
[09:14] <seb128> robert_ancell, you rock
[09:14] <seb128> robert_ancell, I will find you nice bugs today, otherwise you can pick in the milestoned list, cf topic
[09:14] <seb128> robert_ancell, I did assign you a minor totem one the other day but it's minor I will probably find better bugs for you today
[09:15] <robert_ancell> oh that list is hard... :)
[09:15] <robert_ancell> I looked at bug 359975 today but couldn't reproduce.  My feeling is that 2.27 GTK+ changes have either solved it or would make it much clearer what is happening
[09:16] <seb128> ok
[09:17] <seb128> I think gpm has quite some issues too but nobody look to bugs there
[09:18] <pitti> robert_ancell: I'd really appreciate a look at bug 443026
[09:18] <pitti> right now, evince is absolutely useless for printing
[09:18] <pitti> you have to install the jaunty version to do anything sensible with printing PDFs
[09:19] <robert_ancell> pitti, ok, that looks like my sort of bug
[09:19] <pitti> robert_ancell: it's reproducible without a physical printer
[09:20] <seb128> pitti, robert_ancell: we should maybe undo http://git.gnome.org/cgit/evince/commit/?h=gnome-2-28&id=2eedce4d1c281bde50edf87ec00821c1d10bd751
[09:20] <pitti> seb128: oh, that was introduced only in karmic? I thought tkamppeter switched it over much earlier already
[09:20] <seb128> pitti, no, only in karmic
[09:20] <pitti> indeed, pdf2ps -> evince -> print works fine
[09:23] <seb128> robert_ancell, bug #446230 might also be nice to fix though it's probably no high priority now either
[09:24] <seb128> pitti, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=585442
[09:24] <seb128> pitti, that was changed in karmic indeed
[09:28] <tkamppeter> pitti, robert_ancell, I have added a comment to bug 419143.
[09:29] <seb128> tseliot, hi, could you look to bug #433856?
[09:29] <robert_ancell> tkamppeter, thanks
[09:29] <robert_ancell> ok, see you all later
[09:29] <seb128> robert_ancell, see you tomorrow!
[09:29] <tkamppeter> pitt, robert_ancell, the problem of evince is that we switched from evince outputting crappy PostScript to outputting crappy PDF. We must somehow make it outputting a non-crappy print data stream.
[09:29] <tseliot> seb128: sure, I'll add it to my TODO list for today. I have deadlines today
[09:29] <seb128> tseliot, ok thanks
[09:30] <tkamppeter> pitti ^^
[09:31] <pitti> tkamppeter: hm, but "crappy but working" >> "crappy and broken"?
[09:31] <tkamppeter> pitti, perhaps you should do s/crappy/broken/ on my last message.
[09:31] <pitti> tkamppeter: heh
[09:33] <tkamppeter> pitti: Strange is also that only evince produces such bad print data and not all other GTK apps. And evince produces bad print data for years already.
[09:33] <pitti> tkamppeter: yeah, I'm not even sure whether it actually uses gtkprint nowadays
[09:34] <tkamppeter> pitti, seems that it uses only the dialog and not the output stream generator.
[09:34] <pitti> *nod*
[09:35] <pitti> tkamppeter: also, I guess I completely disassembles the input PDF and creates an entirely new document when printing it, right?
[09:35] <pitti> so that it can do tricks like 4-on-1, reverse order, selected pages, etc.
[09:35] <pitti> although only the first should really require a total rewrite of the PDF
[09:35] <seb128> it doesn't help to keep claiming those files are broken
[09:35] <seb128> evince just open them file to display them
[09:36] <seb128> print preview works
[09:36] <seb128> etc
[09:36] <tkamppeter> pitti, evince in fact re-renders the PDF to be able to do page management. They want to support CUPS-less environments.
[09:37] <pitti> seb128: "those files"?
[09:38] <tkamppeter> pitti: One should introduce a compile mode for evince for CUPS environment, letting evince passing through PostScript and PDF input files to CUPS and passing all page management options to CUPS as IPP attributes (like it does with the PPD options). Then CUPS will do the right thing.
[09:38] <seb128> pitti, the ps you get when printing from evince
[09:38] <seb128> or the pdf when you print to a file
[09:39] <pitti> seb128: well, but they are; either the generated PDF immediately crashes gs, or it puts it into an eternal loop
[09:40] <pitti> admittedly generated ps was often buggy as well, but by far not as bad
[09:40] <seb128> why don't we just roll back to what we had in jaunty?
[09:40] <seb128> ie revert the commit I pointed
[09:40] <seb128> then we can argue later about what is broken in the evince pdf
[09:40] <pitti> seb128: no objection
[09:41] <seb128> but ideally somebody a clue about pdfs should take that to upstream cairo guys
[09:41] <seb128> +with
[09:41] <seb128> since it's cairo which is used to generate those I think
[09:41] <pitti> oh, I see; I thought standard gtkprint would do that as well?
[09:41] <pitti> frankly I didn't really try to print from other apps
[09:42] <tkamppeter> I have copied my last comment of bug 419143 to bug 443026 as it applies there, too.
[09:43] <tkamppeter> pitti, seb128: ^^, but in general, I would also agree with PS output as workaround for the time being until the PDF output gets fixed. But only for the Ubuntu package.
[09:43] <seb128> pitti, it should yes
[09:44] <seb128> pitti, do we have a good summary of the issue we have right now that I could use to ping upstream about the bug?
[09:44] <tkamppeter> pitti, you could try to print from the GIMP (standard dialog) and see whether you get a blank page ...
[09:45] <pitti> seb128: bug
[09:45] <pitti> ooops
[09:45] <pitti> seb128: bug 443026 has a reproducing document and explanation
[09:45] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[09:45] <tkamppeter> Or anyone could try to print from Abiword? Or does this one not use GTK Print?
[09:45] <seb128> printing a pdf to a pdf file in current karmic works fine there
[09:46] <seb128> ie printing from evince to a pdf works
[09:46] <tkamppeter> seb128: You mean that if you do "Print to PDF" in evince and then lpr the PDF to CUPS all works perfectly?
[09:46] <seb128> no, I've no printer
[09:47] <seb128> I just to "print to pdf" and open the pdf with evince
[09:47] <seb128> pitti said that you don't need a real printer to test before I think
[09:47] <pitti> seb128: gs output.pdf -> boom
[09:47] <tkamppeter> seb128: Then Poppler renders the PDF. Try "gs <file.pdf>" with the PDF from evince.
[09:48] <seb128> works fin,e
[09:48] <seb128> works fine
[09:49] <pitti> seb128: I updated the summary to give the reproducing steps without a printer
[09:49] <seb128> pitti, that works fine on a pdf I just tried there
[09:49] <seb128> let me try an another one
[09:49] <pitti> seb128: it seems to work for text-only PDFs
[09:50] <pitti> but for anythign moderately complex with some graphics, it just crashes, or doesn't print the graphics
[09:50] <seb128> I would argue it's a gs bug since evince open those pdf correctly
[09:50] <seb128> but probably not one we will track before karmic
[09:50] <seb128> let's switch back to what we used in jaunty
[09:52] <pitti> so, I don't know how widespread the problem actually is
[09:52] <pitti> it just happens for 3/4 of the uni scripts my wife tried to print
[09:52] <pitti> but they could all be generated from a particular PDF generator
[09:53] <pitti> ah, that was word -> Adobe distiller
[09:53] <tkamppeter> seb128, it is not a gs bug, I have two native PDF printers which do not print output.pdf. See bug 443026, comment #4.
[09:54] <seb128> tkamppeter, are you able to tell us what in the pdf make those chock?
[09:55] <tkamppeter> seb128, for bug 443026 not, but for bug 419143 it is an embedded font.
[09:56] <pitti> seb128: wrt. music players, are you okay with me adding a hackish patch to gvfs for now which adds the music-player mime type for devices which have the music-player icon?
[09:57] <pitti> seb128: I'm discussing the proper solution with David, and outlined it in https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24500, but it's pretty intrusive, and might not make karmic
[09:57] <seb128> pitti, yes, did you get comments from davidz on the upstream bug?
[09:57] <pitti> seb128: not yet
[09:57] <pitti> seb128: but the effect would be the same; ID_MEDIA_PLAYER determines the icon, and that determines the mime type
[09:57] <pitti> it's just a code-wise hack, behaviour should be fine
[09:57] <seb128> pitti, works for me
[09:58] <pitti> okay, doing that then
[10:02] <tkamppeter> pitti, have you seen that I have committed a small change to CUPS? This also needs to go into Karmic.
[10:02] <pitti> tkamppeter: yep, saw it; will upload it in time
[10:03] <tkamppeter> Thanks.
[10:03] <pitti> tkamppeter: probably tomorrow morning, just in case another patch turns up still :)
[10:04] <pitti> tkamppeter: argh, it still FTBFSes on mips/mipsel, so I'll need to hit it harder
[10:09] <tkamppeter> pitti, there is also a problem with armel, bug 447919.
[10:09] <Zdra> Hello ubuntu guys. Is "Rick Spencer" here?
[10:09] <pitti> Zdra: not right now (US timezone), but in general yes
[10:09] <tkamppeter> pitti, it failes the tests and therefore does not complete the build.
[10:10] <pitti> tkamppeter: oh, that's what I pinged you about yesterday; it fails on all arches
[10:10] <pitti> tkamppeter: it's a regression from your hostname change apparently
[10:10] <Zdra> pitti, cool what's his nick? :)
[10:10] <seb128> Zdra, rickspencer3
[10:11] <Zdra> hehe :)
[10:11] <Zdra> fine
[10:11] <Zdra> I'm waiting for him
[10:11] <seb128> anything you need?
[10:11] <seb128> you can perhaps get a reply from somebody else too
[10:11] <Zdra> seb128, rant against WONTFIX for 435329
[10:11] <seb128> bug #435329
[10:11] <pitti> tkamppeter: do you have a minute to take a look at this?
[10:11] <seb128> we discussed it on this channel yesterday
[10:11] <tkamppeter> pitti, then it is strange why it is only reportde for arm,el and I also have the feeling that doko reported the bug before I did the hostname change.
[10:12] <seb128> launchpad sucks sometime and wontfix is the wrong change
[10:12] <tkamppeter> pitti, yes
[10:12] <Zdra> seb128, ah, didn't see the discussion
[10:12] <pitti> tkamppeter: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33580906/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.cups_1.4.1-5_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is the same
[10:12] <Zdra> seb128, what's the conclusion?
[10:12] <seb128> Zdra, we said that it's not a karmic blocker because it's easy to workaround (ie it's a preference option)
[10:12] <seb128> Zdra, but it will be nice to get fixed in a sru after karmic
[10:13] <pitti> well, it's still "ok" to fix in karmic
[10:13] <pitti> but it won't block the release
[10:13] <seb128> Zdra, I think the wontfix was rick trying to say it's not a blocker for karmic now, we have higher issue, ie crashers
[10:13] <pitti> perhaps high->medium would be more claer
[10:13] <tkamppeter> pitti, it seems that one of the tests does a host name lookup not using CUPS and checks whether CUPS finds the same name or so. This test needs to be changed to accept also the IP.
[10:13] <Zdra> seb128, I can understand you (as in all ubuntu devs) don't have time for that... but the only sane solution is to drop that patch NOW !
[10:13] <seb128> pitti, it's medium
[10:14] <Zdra> seb128, you cant still add the patch later when it get fixed
[10:14] <seb128> Zdra, it would help if your comment were constructive on bugs too
[10:14] <Zdra> it is constructive
[10:14] <seb128> Zdra, "ubuntu specific patch makes empathy crash at startup for all non-GNOME users" could you give details?
[10:14] <seb128> the bug is not about a crash
[10:14] <Zdra> you have 2 possibilities, make your choice
[10:14] <tkamppeter> pitti, we cannot require from all our users to have working DNS. In many small networks they rely on automatic network configuration by the router and not all routers set up valid host names for all machines automatically.
[10:15] <seb128> it's about having to manual change a preference when dropping the indicator applet
[10:15] <pitti> tkamppeter: right, understood; I think it just needs a test fixed
[10:15] <seb128> which is installed by default
[10:15] <Zdra> seb128, which preference?
[10:15] <Zdra> seb128, so you force adding that applet?
[10:15] <seb128> Zdra, I'm not sure to understand your issue
[10:16] <Zdra> seb128, don't have KDE here, but users reported that empathy just segfault at startup there
[10:16] <seb128> by default we use the indicator message applet on ubuntu and no notification area icon
[10:16] <seb128> Zdra, that's a different bug that the one you comment on and the sort of issue we want to fix for karmic
[10:16] <Zdra> seb128, if there are no indicator applet, you don't get upstream's status icon
[10:16] <Zdra> seb128, which make empathy hidden with now way to use it
[10:16] <Zdra> seb128, and on KDE users reported that empathy just crash
[10:16] <seb128> Zdra, you need to go to the preference and uncheck "use message indicator"
[10:17] <Zdra> seb128, please tell me how I go there if empathy can't be seen?
[10:17] <seb128> Zdra, you can open it again from the menu to display the buddy list
[10:17] <seb128> well for sure the buddy list should be displayed when you run empathy?
[10:17] <seb128> the issue is only when closing the list
[10:17] <Zdra> seb128, it is not if you last closed empathy with it hidden in status icon
[10:17] <seb128> you can get it back by running empathy from the menu again
[10:18] <seb128> ok, that is an issue
[10:18] <seb128> and the crash is one too
[10:18] <seb128> that's what I meant by being constructive
[10:18] <seb128> those are good point and that makes sense now
[10:18] <seb128> you could mention that on the bug rather than just "ranting"
[10:18] <seb128> the crash on start should be fixed
[10:19] <seb128> and the fact that the buddy list will not be displayed on start if it was close with it in the notify is an issue too
[10:19] <seb128> those should be address for karmic yes
[10:19] <seb128> do you have any bug number for the crash issue?
[10:19] <seb128> I will talk to rick and kenvandine about the other issue
[10:25] <Zdra> seb128, I'm searching for the crash but I can't find... let me ask the guy who reported that to me
[10:26] <seb128> Zdra, thanks, when you close a crash a NOTGNOME can you also mention on the channel so we know about it if the submitter doesn't file it on launchpad too
[10:27] <chrisccoulson2> seb128 - do you think bug 451081 is a GTK issue?
[10:27] <seb128> Zdra, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/435216
[10:27] <seb128> Zdra, did it look similar to that one?
[10:28] <Zdra> seb128, but still, the use experience without the indicator applet is terrible... that option is hard to discover it it result to bug reports against upstream. That make me sad that ubuntu include half-finished patch like that in empathy package.
[10:28] <TheMuso> Is there going to be a cups upload any time soon?
[10:29]  * TheMuso was going to see about fixing the cups powerpc FTBFS if not
[10:29] <seb128> TheMuso, tomorrow
[10:29] <seb128> TheMuso, there is a pending change and pitti said he's letting time in case other will come today
[10:29] <pitti> TheMuso: it's failing across all arches
[10:29] <seb128> Zdra, you are a bit harsh with your comment, what issue do you have with the change out of the case where people want to remove in the indicator applet?
[10:29] <pitti> TheMuso: tkamppeter is looking into it
[10:29] <TheMuso> pitti: Oh ok thanks.
[10:30]  * TheMuso is doing final powerpc gardening before the freeze.
[10:30] <Zdra> seb128, you don't have status icon by default when you remove the indicator applet. You have to find that checkbox in empathy preferences
[10:31] <seb128> Zdra, ok, that's one bug when you don't use the standard ubuntu config, out of that?
[10:31] <Zdra> well, I guess it's fine if you use standard ubuntu config
[10:31] <Zdra> but I think it will be common to not use it
[10:32] <Zdra> we even got bug reports of ubuntu users having that indicator applet that didn't understand that the "email" icon is related to empathy
[10:33] <seb128> well that's not really a bug or something that will change
[10:33] <seb128> I agree that the indicator message is suboptimal but it's a distro design choice
[10:33] <seb128> that will not change
[10:34] <Zdra> also, if you close empathy's main window, it make a minimize animation to the notification area instead of the indicator applet
[10:34] <seb128> I also agree we should fix the case where this is no indicator applet
[10:34] <seb128> other concern out of that fallback case?
[10:35] <Zdra> I should probably run a bit ubuntu's version of empathy to test more. I'm running upstream version most of the time
[10:36] <seb128> there is no real difference out of the indicator message use
[10:37] <seb128> chrisccoulson: no sure, I've never known how to read such crashes
[10:37] <seb128> chrisccoulson: it seems the sort of call that should not fail, not sure in which case that can happen or if there is a corruption, or if that's on session close and the display is closing
[10:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson: what do you think?
[10:39] <seb128> chrisccoulson2, ^
[10:40] <pitti> seb128: meh, gvfs hates me
[10:40] <chrisccoulson2> seb128 - i'm not too sure really. i can't see what g-s-d could do to make it crash (other than some other memory error)
[10:41] <chrisccoulson2> i suppose i could ask for a valgrind log just in case
[10:41] <pitti> wow, we have two chrisccoulsons now?
[10:41]  * MenZa hides.
[10:41] <chrisccoulson2> heh, its because my 3G connection keeps cutting me off ;)
[10:42] <pitti> seb128: so, I now get a correct mime type (x_content_types: x-content/image-dcf x-content/audio-player) and it's working fine again for opening RB, and displaying the player in RB again
[10:42] <pitti> seb128: but when I plug it in, instead of getting one window with RB/F-Spot default, I get two windows with one each
[10:42] <pitti> s/default//
[10:42] <seb128> pitti, that was not the case in jaunty?
[10:43] <pitti> seb128: I don't know
[10:43] <pitti> but I've never seen two windows
[10:43] <seb128> did you ever try your g1 there?
[10:43] <seb128> I don't have any device being a camera and a player there
[10:43] <pitti> seb128: I'll boot jaunty live and test there
[10:43] <pitti> bbl
[10:57] <pitti> seb128: you were right, same problem in jaunty; I just didn't see it because the G1 wasn't in hal-info as a music player yet; adding it causes the exact same effect
[10:57] <pitti> seb128: so, it's a wart, but much better to have music players working IMHO
[10:57] <pitti> and it's not a regression
[10:57] <seb128> pitti, ok what I though
[10:57] <seb128> thanks for confirming
[11:02] <pitti> seb128: uploaded; I hope I didn't break anything else _this_ time :)
[11:22] <chrisccoulson1> seb128 - do you have any opinion on bug 443312? I don't really have much time to work on it before final freeze, and I'm not sure whether we want all the changes there anyway
[11:24] <seb128> chrisccoulson1, it's a GNOME component so doing the update is ok
[11:25] <chrisccoulson1> seb128 - ok. i'll try and do it if i get time
[11:26]  * chrisccoulson1 wishes his connection would stop dropping today
[11:27] <chrisccoulson1> pitti - have you found a reliable way to tether your G1 so you can use it's 3G connection from your computer?
[11:28] <pitti> chrisccoulson1: unfortunately not; I tried to root the device months ago, but it didn't work with the SD card that I have (I couldn't turn it into a gold card)
[11:28] <pitti> chrisccoulson1: now I have a different SD card, but I didn't try again
[11:28] <chrisccoulson1> yeah, it seems like there aren't many good solutions for tethering:(
[11:28] <pitti> chrisccoulson1: however, there's a tool called "proxoid" which is said to work on a non-rooted devices
[11:28] <pitti> I didn't try it yet, though
[11:29] <chrisccoulson1> i've not tried that either
[11:29] <chrisccoulson1> i'll have a look for it;)
[11:29] <pitti> chrisccoulson1: http://code.google.com/p/proxoid/
[11:29] <pitti> chrisccoulson1: it's not real tethering, of course, just a http proxy AFAIUI
[11:29] <pitti> so no SSH love
[11:30] <chrisccoulson1> that's probably adequate though, i'll give it a try
[11:30] <chrisccoulson1> thanks!
[11:31] <pitti> chrisccoulson1: http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2009/08/22/android-emancipation/ might be worth a try, too
[11:33] <seb128> pitti, tkamppeter: could you try if sending http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/gtkprint.pdf to your printer works?
[11:33] <seb128> pitti, tkamppeter: it's the bug example printed to a pdf with cairo git
[11:33] <seb128> upstream says
 seb128: Comment 4 and the gs crash may not be related. Cairo 1.8.8 had an efficient way of embedding images which may cause slow printing and running out of memory. This has been fixed in git.
[11:33] <seb128>  seb128: But if gs crashes on input that works with acroread, that is a gs bug. Usually the gs guys will fix those bugs if you file a report.
[11:34] <seb128> the pdf is a print to file one there
[11:34] <seb128> so just lpr it or whatever you do to send to the printer
[11:34] <chrisccoulson1> pitti - thanks, i'll take a look at that too
[11:35] <pitti> seb128: if you run it through gs, it doesn't show the image
[11:35] <pitti> (and has an empty first page, too)
[11:35] <seb128> pitti, upstream says those could be gs bugs
[11:35] <pitti> seb128: that's precisely the bug I got when printing the original PDF through evince
[11:35] <pitti> seb128: yes, entirely possible
[11:35] <pitti> I just don't have a native PS printer to try
[11:35] <seb128> is gs used by cups to print those?
[11:36] <seb128> or can you just send the pdf to the printer?
[11:36] <pitti> yes, in the filter chain
[11:36] <pitti> I don't know whether there are native PDF printers nowadays, but if so, they are rare; tkamppeter?
[11:39] <seb128> pitti, <adrianj> seb128: gtkprint.pdf works in acroread but crashes gs means it is a gs bug
[11:39] <seb128> pitti, from #cairo
[11:39] <pitti> okay
[11:40] <tkamppeter> pitti, seb128: With gs the first page gets completely blank (but no crash). My first PDF printer has no output at all.
[11:41] <seb128> what do you call pdf printer?
[11:41] <seb128> you have a printer which take pdf in input?
[11:41] <seb128> ie no gs in the chain?
 seb128: I use acroread as the gold standard. It it works in acroread the pdf is fine.
[11:41] <seb128> just for reference
[11:42] <pitti> tkamppeter: and the second page misses the graphcis
[11:42] <pitti> ok, so them it seems that it's a gs _and_ a PDF printer bug then :)
[11:42] <seb128> I guess we are back to
[11:42] <seb128> - the pdf is fine in acroread so upstream consider it valid
[11:42] <seb128> - gs is buggy
[11:42] <pitti> I'd think that acroread is pretty forgiving in its input
[11:43] <seb128> - if pdf printers get confused upstream need details about what in the pdf confuse those
[11:43] <tkamppeter> pitti, the second page had also graphics? Then it is really missing.
[11:44] <pitti> tkamppeter: yes, see the original PDF
[11:44] <tkamppeter> pitti, the second PDF printer takes some minutes and prints a page telling that it ran out of memory.
[11:44] <seb128> pitti, it doesn't there
[11:45] <seb128> pitti, opened Aufgabe.pdf it has no graphic on page 2 in evince
 I'ved looked in the pdf and it looks fine to me. I don't have access to any expensive pdf validation tools so the best I can do is test it with acroread.
 seb128: If it can be proven that cairo is doing something wrong I would be happy to fix it. But at this stage I can not see what the problem is.
[11:48] <pitti> seb128: your gtkprint.pdf seems to reverse the order
[11:48] <pitti> seb128: in gtkprint.pdf  the graphics should be on page 2, in the original file it's on page 1
[11:48] <seb128> pitti, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33023145/Aufgabe01.pdf has the same other
[11:48] <tkamppeter> pitti, seb128, FYI several newer laser printers do not only understand PostScript and PCL as input but also PDF. I have two of these printers. PDF which is not broken by evince prints just fine on them, by sending the raw files to the printers.
[11:48] <seb128> order
[11:49] <pitti> seb128: oops, yes, sorry; it's inverted in gs
[11:51] <seb128> tkamppeter, claiming that the pdf are broken doesn't help there
[11:51] <seb128> they are displayed fine in evince and acroread
[11:51] <seb128> and upstream has been nice to look at those and don't see an issue
[11:51] <seb128> and as said he doesn't have other verification tool
[11:51] <seb128> so we will need details from you on how the pdf is broken
[11:52] <tkamppeter> For me the first page in gs is blank and the second shows the header and the section "Empfohlener Loesungsweg:" with six numbered steps. Then free space on the lower half and "Seite 2 von 2" at the bottom.
[11:53] <seb128> and evince and acroread display the pdf correctly
[11:53] <seb128> which means it can be done
[11:53] <seb128> and upstream says it's a gs issue
[11:54] <pitti> so, apparently there's a gs bug here, since evince itself displays the PDF just fine
[11:54] <seb128> right, what upstream says
[11:54] <pitti> whether it's a violation of the PDF standard which acroread just tolerates, or a real bug in gs I can't say
[11:54] <pitti> but at least gs could be made equally tolerant then
[11:54] <seb128> me neither
[11:54] <pitti> I guess it doesn't quite help us for karmic final, thoug
[11:54] <seb128> but upstream is wanting to fix such issues if somebody know what they are
[11:55] <seb128> they recommend using ps printing in evince for karmic too btw
[11:55] <seb128> so we should do that step one
[11:55] <seb128> I can do the change if you want
[11:55] <tkamppeter> evince shows the first page with graphics for me and the second page without graphics, looking exactly like the gs output.
[11:55] <seb128> tkamppeter, well, that's how http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33023145/Aufgabe01.pdf is yes
[11:56] <seb128> gs displayed the first page blank there
[11:57] <mac_v> pitti: hi... does apport use a fixed size 22px/24px icon for panel ? [like how messaging menu uses only 22px icon] or does it depend on the panel size?
[11:58] <pitti> mac_v: apport only ships /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/apport.svg
[11:58] <pitti> mac_v: oh, that icon; that's in update-notifier
[11:58] <pitti> but I don't see an apport icon there either
[11:59] <tkamppeter> pitti, seb128, my first PDF printer did not show any reaction.
[11:59] <seb128> tkamppeter, did you send http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/gtkprint.pdf to it?
[11:59] <mac_v> pitti: oh... the scalable icon is used everywhere... ah .. thanks
[12:00] <seb128> tkamppeter, upstream said <adrianj> seb128: Comment 4 and the gs crash may not be related. Cairo 1.8.8 had an efficient way of embedding images which may cause slow printing and running out of memory. This has been fixed in git.
[12:00] <seb128> tkamppeter, that pdf has been printed using cairo git
[12:00] <pitti> mac_v: however, when a crash occurs now, it doesn't look like apport's original icon, but is a gray one from humanity
[12:00] <tkamppeter> Yes, to both. One printer stays without reaction and the other says "out of memory" after some minutes.
[12:01] <mac_v>  yeah...
[12:01] <pitti> mvo: I can't seem to find which icon u-n sets into the panel tray for crashes
[12:01] <seb128> ok, I don't know then
[12:01] <pitti> mac_v: ^
[12:02] <mac_v> pitti: oh... nevermind then.. i was just trying to make sure the apport icon in the app was color while the panel was greyscale... :)
[12:02] <pitti> mac_v: it's not
[12:02] <pitti> mac_v: sorry, it is
[12:03] <seb128> pitti, it's "apport"
[12:03] <seb128> /usr/share/icons/Humanity/apps/24/apport.svg
[12:03] <seb128> /usr/share/icons/Humanity/apps/22/apport.svg
[12:03] <mac_v> pitti: it is gonna be red soon :)
[12:03] <pitti> src/update-notifier.c:   trayapplet_create(un->crashreport, "apport");
[12:03] <pitti> aah
[12:03] <pitti> mvo: unping
[12:28] <hyperair> why does network-manager require a reboot?
[12:28] <hyperair> can't it just be restarted?
[12:28] <pitti> it can
[12:29] <hyperair> oh right, it drops connections while restarting, doesn't it?
[12:30] <seb128> MacSlow|lunch, is there any reason notify-osd doesn't take NULL as no icon?
[12:30] <seb128> ie it has to be " "?
[12:38] <mvo> asac: hi, a friend of mine just told me that NM for him asks for the password again every ~3-5 reconnects. I have seen similar things. do you happen to know what cuases this?
[12:43] <mvo> asac: this is with a BCM4322 chipset - any hints or worarounds?
[12:46] <Zdra> seb128, kenvandine: When I choose to not use the indicator in empathy preferences, the status icon appear. Clicking on it does not hide the window
[12:47] <Zdra> that works with upstream version
[12:49] <seb128> right, I noticed that too, I think kenvandine said he would look at it
[13:25] <kenvandine> seb128, we changed the toggle behavior
[13:26] <seb128> kenvandine, to what?
[13:26] <kenvandine> clicking on it always raises instead of toggle
[13:26] <kenvandine> design decision
[13:27] <kenvandine> pidgin does that now too
[13:27] <seb128> kenvandine, it should not when you don't use the indicator applet
[13:27] <seb128> and it doesn't for pidgin, I would have noticed
[13:27] <kenvandine> humm
[13:27] <kenvandine> ok
[13:28] <kenvandine> that would be closely related to the work for displaying the icon if the indicator isn't present
[13:28] <seb128> I hate this behaviour it made you go twice all over the desktop where you could double click
[13:28] <kenvandine> which rick wasn't thinking we needed to do for karmic
[13:28] <seb128> right
[13:28] <seb128> but seems Zdra is quite unhappy
[13:28] <kenvandine> i think i know how to do it now
[13:28] <kenvandine> i noticed
[13:29]  * kenvandine wishes the indicator stuff was better documented
[13:29] <kenvandine> but either way, we need to split out and duplicate a bunch of code
[13:29] <kenvandine> to have different behavior for the icon and indicator
[13:29] <kenvandine> right now we rely on the status icon functions for the indicator
[13:30] <seb128> kenvandine, I assigned you a crash which seems due to the indicator change btw
[13:31] <kenvandine> ok
[13:31] <kenvandine> great
[13:31] <seb128> thanks
[13:45] <seb128> MacSlow, hello?
[13:46] <MacSlow> seb128, greetings
[13:46] <seb128> MacSlow, have you seen my question during lunch?
[13:47] <seb128> MacSlow, let me ask again, why does notify-osd require to have " " as icon and NULL is not working?
[13:48] <MacSlow> seb128, oh that one... due to the way notify-osd needs to distinguish between different layouts (and be able to differentiate between update- and append-cases) ... also answered it the comment to  451086 earlier this day
[13:49] <MacSlow> seb128, NULL well cause it to reuse what's perhaps already there
[13:49] <seb128> MacSlow, is that documented in the spec? the libnotify api doesn't give any description on that
[13:50] <seb128> MacSlow, what will notification-daemon do with " " icons? what about kde?
[13:50] <MacSlow> seb128, that's a behaviour we need in notify-osd due to the interaction-design of it.
[13:50] <seb128> MacSlow, I don't want to make rhythmbox break with other notification daemons just to work with notify-osd
[13:51] <MacSlow> seb128, rb can check the notification-daemon name. I've examples for that in the dev-guideline and in notify-osd trunk
[13:51] <seb128> ok, not for karmic then
[13:51] <MacSlow> ?
[13:52] <seb128> I've other bugs to work on that to change rhythmbox to make it work better with notify-osd
[13:52] <seb128> but thanks
[13:52] <seb128> you could just have let us known earlier what was required there
[13:52] <MacSlow> I've never implied to having you work on that
[13:53] <seb128> right, I'm just saying that it will stay broken for karmic
[13:53] <MacSlow> seb128, afaik it worked in jaunty
[13:53] <seb128> I doubt it
[13:54] <seb128> I doubt anybody made icons be " " upstream since that's a notify-osd specific thing
[13:54] <MacSlow> seb128, or at least it did not surface during jaunty... the dev-guidelines are in place since jaunty
[13:54] <seb128> usually when you want to icon you use NULL for the icon option
[13:54] <MacSlow> sure... that's why I wrote the dev-guildelines
[13:54] <seb128> to -> no
[13:55] <seb128> we have an issue there but that can wait uds to be discussed
[13:55] <seb128> you will never get upstream to do notify-osd specific hacks this way
[13:55] <seb128> or expecting them to go and read your guidelines is not realistic
[13:55] <seb128> the behaviour should be in the spec
[13:55] <seb128> and works in a consistent way
[13:56] <seb128> we have plenty of applications using NULL as no icon, if notify-osd doesn't handle that it's an notify-osd compatibility breakage
[13:57] <seb128> re
[13:58] <agateau> MacSlow: why can't notify-osd handle NULL for icon parameter?
[13:58] <seb128> agateau, apparently NULL means "use the same icon than the previous bubble" there
[13:59] <agateau> omg
[13:59] <seb128> agateau, which is a semantic change
[13:59] <seb128> it's just broken
[14:00] <agateau> doing the opposite would have been less of a breakage
[14:00] <MacSlow> agateau, we want to be able to update, append and repalce.
[14:00] <agateau> but still, what's the use case for this?
[14:00] <agateau> ok
[14:00] <agateau> but why not say "-" means "use the same icon"
[14:01] <agateau> and keep NULL signification unchanged
[14:01] <chrisccoulson> oops, bug clash
[14:01] <agateau> MacSlow: ^
[14:03] <MacSlow> agateau, could work... need to test it, but not right now... as I still have the plate full
[14:14] <asac> mvo: bcm is driver issue :/
[14:18] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have checked the CUPS FTBFS and it is not possible that my patch breaks the test which fails.
[14:18] <dobey> mac_v: hey
[14:19] <tkamppeter> pitti, the failing test is an API test for HTTP functions in the CUPS library and my patch only affects the CUPS daemon.
[14:41] <lool> kwwii: I see your new branch now has 4 revisions, but still without the previous history
[14:41] <lool> kwwii: Do you need help?
[14:43] <dobey> mvo: i take it the software-store emblem is not used on .deb files that might be present on the filesystem?
[14:45] <mac_v> dobey: hey , i'v redone the U1 icons and made them look more like a cloud , than just a plain fill as was earlier, they should be the same size as the rest of the icons too , will be updated in the next humanity update
[14:45] <kwwii> lool: if you know how to make it work, yes please...I did everything you said last night, I promise :)
[14:46] <kwwii> lool: I did a proper branch, and pushed it to the new location, maybe I needed to start with a new project or such?
[14:46] <dobey> mac_v: ah ok
[14:48] <dobey> mac_v: eep!
[14:48] <dobey> mac_v: the offline and error icons look too similar
[14:48] <mac_v> dobey: better ? ;)
[14:49] <dobey> mac_v: most notably, they both use !, which generally means "i need your attention"
[14:50] <mac_v> dobey: hmm, the empty cloud and the chasing arrows are different ... the "!" was because i was trying not to use "x".. or should we just leave it empty?
[14:50] <mvo> dobey: no, only inside software-center. the bug that its leaking into nautilus is fixed
[14:50] <mvo> dobey: with todays upload
[14:50] <dobey> mac_v: what does the offline icon for nm-applet use in humanity?
[14:50] <lool> kwwii: lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release is still broken at least
[14:51] <dobey> mvo: right, i was just making sure. because "other apps emblems showing up in nautilus" isn't really a bug in those apps
[14:51] <lool> kwwii: If you add me to the team I can delete the branch and start afresh
[14:51] <lool> kwwii: Did you start queuing changes in that branch?
[14:51] <mac_v> dobey: just small dashes[missing towers] like the cellphones
[14:51] <mac_v> oops missing bars*
[14:52] <kwwii> lool: yes, we just did the first merge
[14:52] <kwwii> lool: you are now on the team
[14:52] <mvo> dobey: what is the bug then? that nautilus shows them in its view? or is there just no bug?
[14:52] <dobey> mac_v: mine actually shows an X on top of empty bars
[14:52] <Amaranth> mvo: compiz 0.8.4 is out :)
[14:52] <dobey> mvo: it's a bit more grandiose than that
[14:52] <mac_v> dobey: this is the icon > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/nm-no-connection.svg
[14:52] <mvo> weeehhh!
[14:52] <Amaranth> working on updating the packaging now
[14:52] <mvo> nice
[14:52] <kwwii> lool: I guess I needed to erase the branch completely, also on lp to remove the .bzr dir or such
[14:52] <mvo> thanks Amaranth
[14:53] <Amaranth> another 17 bugs fixed :)
[14:54] <dobey> mvo: i don't think any nautilus hackers will be at UDS, but maybe we can push for the proper fix upstream for 2.30
[14:54] <mvo> ok
[14:55] <dobey> mvo: the real issue is that there is no separation between "emblems" and "tags" (the latter of course being what users actually want)
[14:55] <dobey> and emblems being programmatically assigned
[14:56] <dobey> mvo: http://wayofthemonkey.com/?date=2008-06-11 <- i blogged about it a bit last year :)
[14:57] <mvo> dobey: thanks, that makes sense. for software-center I now solved it by just moving it into a private dir, but having it fixed upstream sounds (much) better
[14:57] <Amaranth> That reminds me, everything on my other computer suddenly gained an emblem for ubuntuone :/
[14:59] <dobey> mvo: yeah. it's complicated, but shouldn't be too hard
[14:59] <dobey> Amaranth: upgrade
[14:59] <dobey> Amaranth: i fixed that yesterday
[14:59] <Amaranth> alright, cool
[15:00]  * Laney looks forward to an osx client for u1
[15:01] <mac_v> Amaranth: for a min i thought U1 had increased the limit for free users too and sycned my / and /home too ;p
[15:02] <mvo> hey glatzor
[15:02] <glatzor> hey mvo!
[15:07] <lool> kwwii: You can do that on LP
[15:08] <lool> kwwii: Why are you closing the same bugs in a new rev??
[15:09] <lool> kwwii: e.g. I already closed this in last upload:
[15:09] <lool>   * Different icons for volume mute and volume-0  , LP: #444548
[15:10] <kwwii> lool: sorry, I didn't see that it was already in the changelog
[15:11] <lool> kwwii: Plus why is it one giant commit for all of the changes?
[15:11] <kwwii> lool: because doing them seperately would be silly (and a waste of time)
[15:11] <lool> 8 changes in a single commit; it's going to be unreviewable again and it seems like this is getting a lot of updates again
[15:11] <kwwii> lool: if I go through the changes with mac_v and Dan then it shouldn't be a problem
[15:12] <lool> kwwii: So the change touches 50 files
[15:12] <kwwii> lool: this is the first time, so it is a bit larger than normal
[15:12] <seb128> kenvandine, could you look if http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33241688/Stacktrace.txt is the crash you fixed recently?
[15:12] <kwwii> but everytime we change one icon that will touch several files
[15:12] <seb128> kenvandine, I've assigned you some bugs which looked similar please close them if that matches the bug you fixed with indicator messages being wrongly listed
[15:12] <lool> kwwii: Changing multiple files for one change is fine, changing 50+ files in a single commit which changes 8 different things less so
[15:12] <kwwii> lool: in the future, it won't be so long
[15:13] <kwwii> lool: I understand your point but we had to start somewhere
[15:13] <lool> kwwii: What about committing each fix individually so that each change can be reviewed?
[15:13] <mac_v> lool:   * Different icons for volume mute and volume-0  , LP: #444548 , was wrongly done... the wrong icon was replaced and the same icon was used for both mute and 0
[15:13] <mac_v> kwwii: ^
[15:14] <kwwii> mac_v: thanks for that info ;)
[15:14] <lool> mac_v: Ok; why is the bug closed then?  Or should that be a new bug instead?
[15:14] <kwwii> lool: reviewed by who? the last review it needs (other than technical stuff) is from the design team
[15:14] <lool> There's no comment explaining that in the bug either
[15:15] <mac_v> lool: i noticed it only now i didnt realize it earlier :)
[15:15] <lool> kwwii: How do you expect to review the "technical stuff" before upload?
[15:15] <mac_v> now , as in , while checking kwwii's branch
[15:15] <kwwii> lool: by testing the package
[15:16] <lool> Right so I'll have to look at 50+ files if I want to test them all
[15:16] <kwwii> ie, building it, putting in a ppa and having people use it
[15:17] <kwwii> lool: I went through the file names and looked at the icons, they all seemed good and the bugs were understandable...after that we get it tested by installing it and simply looking at the icons
[15:18] <kenvandine> seb128, ok, thanks
[15:18] <kwwii> lool: as I said, normally the update won't be so large
[15:18] <lool> I keep hearing that for 3 weeks
[15:18] <lool> Let me fix history and I'll let you drive this the way you like
[15:19] <lool> I dont think I'm a good person to deal with this stuff
[15:22] <mac_v> lool: the reason for th updates being larger than expected.. is mainly the icons were done to complete the human theme... but since *everyone*  , wants all the panel icons to be in greyscale... more icons had to be done... even those not existing in human.. hence the icons... but that isnt a good reason to be doing so many new icons.. just mentioning ;)
[15:22] <lool> mac_v: the reason is doing large changes late in the cycle
[15:22] <mac_v> lool: i agree ;)
[15:22] <lool> My initial proposal was to revert back to human
[15:22] <lool> I think I would have spent 30 minutes on that and instead we are all spending hours on it
[15:23] <lool> If not days
[15:25] <mvo> is it a known issue that eject (on the cdrom itself) is no longer working? I have to eject via nautilus now
[15:27] <lool> kwwii: lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release now has history + I reapplied the changes from the last commit of your branch on top of it
[15:28] <lool> kwwii: I pushed your branch as bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release.old as a backup in case I missed anything
[15:29] <kwwii> lool: cool. thanks...on the phone atm, bbiab
[15:41] <pitti> tkamppeter: right, it already failed on -4; so something else in the environment must have changed
[15:44] <mac_v> seb128: did you get time to check the volume applet > Bug #444548
[15:44] <lool> kwwii: I asked pitti whether you could contact him on the theme stuff and he was nice enough to agree (thanks pitti!)
[15:44] <seb128> mac_v, upstream bug
[15:45] <mac_v> seb128: hmm, which package is it?
[15:45] <seb128> mac_v, gnome-media
[15:45] <mac_v> i'll add the also affects
[15:45] <mac_v> thanks
[15:45] <kwwii> lool: great, thanks
[15:49] <walters_> is Josselin Mouette around here (and if not, anyone know where I could find him)?
[15:50] <Laney> walters_: Np237 on #gnome-debian@GIMPnet
[15:51] <walters_> Laney: thanks
[15:51] <Laney> np
[16:08] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have tried to simply redo the CUPS builds, but the build queue is very full and so it will take hours until the CUPS packages will get built.
[16:09] <tkamppeter> pitti, perhaps you can prioritize them to get the result somewhat earlier.
[16:33] <asac> seb128: so following up from yesterday. is it possible to put the gconf key for epiphany homepage in some other package like ubuntu-docs?
[16:33] <pitti> tkamppeter: but why should it work now, when it failed the last two times?
[16:33] <seb128> asac, ubuntu-artwork would be a good candidate
[16:34] <tkamppeter> pitti, perhaps a server problem.
[16:35] <asac> ok let me check that
[16:36] <pitti> tkamppeter: I dont see a new upload on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups/+changelog
[16:37] <tkamppeter> pitti, I simply clicked "Retry build" in the hope that it was a server problem, there is no new upload.
[16:41] <pitti> tkamppeter: ah, I see
[16:41] <tkamppeter> pitti, lpia completed now to build and it still fails on the HTTP API test: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/293211/
[16:42] <tkamppeter> Now also sparc and powerpc failed.
[16:44] <tkamppeter> pitti, all failed on httpAddrGetList(), the same way, as before.
[16:50] <tkamppeter> pitti, now armel failed the same way.
[17:11] <mvo> Amaranth: how is the compiz update going? anything to sposnor yet?
[18:10] <mvo> I guess its a known issues that tomboy does not sync with ubuntuone?
[18:54] <pitti> tedg: if you have a minute, I'd appreciate your comment to bug 444149; if it's too intrusive, we just skip it for karmic, but perhaps there's a simple solution
[18:55] <tedg> pitti: Does stracciatella use a different panel config?
[18:56] <pitti> tedg: just like indicator-applet, it should also hide indicator-session (it's not yet part of GNOME)
[18:57] <pitti> tedg: so I wondered whether you think it's easy to change the gnome-panel code which shows/hides the shutdown entries, or whether there's a better way of making the applet inert
[18:57] <tedg> pitti: We could do the same check for the env variable there.
[18:58] <tedg> pitti: The patch sets up a signal, but then just has a handler that listens for "FastUserSwitcherApplet" and hides them.
[18:58] <tedg> pitti: So it could check for stracciatella as well.
[18:59] <pitti> tedg: right
[18:59] <pitti> tedg: i. e. it could just disable the dynamic detection entirely on stracciatella
[19:00] <tedg> pitti: Oh, that's better.  Just don't even register the handler.
[19:00]  * pitti looks at debian/patches/25_dynamic_fusa_detection.patch
[19:02]  * tedg looks too, it's been a long time :)
[19:03] <tedg> pitti: I think if you just remove the two g_signal_connect()s to the panel_applet_signaler you should be good.
[19:03] <pitti> tedg: awesome, thank you
[19:04] <tedg> pitti: Oh, wait.  There are more...
[19:04] <tedg> There's a signal connect for each item.
[19:04] <pitti> tedg: there are some bits in the patch which look a bit weird, like "if (separator_inserted) {..."
[19:04] <tedg> It might be easier to modify the call back then.
[19:05] <tedg> pitti: Yeah, look at the comment at the end "Okay, this is confusing" :)
[19:05] <pitti> tedg: you mean +panel_menu_items_{hide,show}_on_fusa ?
[19:05] <pitti> tedg: hehe
[19:06] <tedg> pitti: Yeah, I'd just modify those.  Wastes some instructions, but is probably better.
[19:06] <pitti> tedg: btw, since you accepted the stracciatella patch into upstream for indicator-applet, I guess you'd do the same for indicator-session-applet?
[19:06] <pitti> tedg: *nod* shouldn't hurt much performance-wise (it's not a major thing anyway, but it'd be nice to keep stracciatella alive)
[19:06] <tedg> pitti: Yeah, no issue there.
[19:07] <tedg> pitti: I wasn't planning on doing another tarball release though.
[19:07] <tedg> (for Karmic)
[19:07] <pitti> tedg: no, don't worry; debian/patches FTW :)
[19:24] <mac_v> mpt: any reason for the software store icon being so very pale in the smaller sizes? icon looks a bit sick ;)
[19:25]  * mpt bangs head on desk
[19:25] <mac_v> \o/
[19:25] <mpt> mac_v, it was so the outlines would look sharper, so that it would look more obviously like a bag
[19:26] <superm1> mvo, regarding update-manager 0.126.1, any particular reason why'd you change the order of the backend to prefer synaptic first?
[19:27] <james_w> superm1: because aptdaemon isn't ready for primetime yet IIUC
[19:27] <superm1> mvo, eg are there a bunch of deficiencies that occur in using aptdaemon?  i just moved mythbuntu-control-centre to use aptdaemon after seeing how well it worked with update-manager
[19:28] <james_w> as it is update-manager, it's important to have it be quite reliable, and there have been quite a few problems reported with aptdaemon
[19:28] <superm1> james_w, oh that's not what i want to hear... :)
[19:28] <james_w> it's good that you have a positive impression though
[19:28] <superm1> any particular things to watch out for that have been getting reported that maybe we should add to release notes for mythbuntu then?
[19:29] <mvo> superm1: just caution, its still the default in software-center
[19:29] <mvo> superm1: but updates are criticial and so I did not want to take any risks
[19:29] <mac_v> mpt: but still the present color is a bit weird .... check the color of the "other" icon.. in the departments... that could be used...anyways just mentioning ..
[19:30] <superm1> mvo, ah okay, that makes lots of sense then.  we can take the same approach with mcc, and if problems occur point people to synaptic
[19:30] <mpt> mac_v, true, but too late for that now
[19:30] <mvo> superm1: I have a good feeling about aptdaemon in general, no particular OMG moment or anything
[19:30] <mac_v> :(
[19:30] <mpt> superm1, what's mcc?
[19:30] <superm1> mpt, mythbuntu-control-centre
[19:30] <mpt> oh rly
[19:31] <mpt> I haven't heard of that
[19:31] <superm1> mpt, it's this little pluggable app that we ship in mythbuntu for easily changing impotant things on the system
[19:31] <superm1> like adding/removing services, changing roles, changing themes, automatic login
[19:31] <superm1> its like a one stop shop for media center configuration
[19:31]  * mpt installs it to have a look :-)
[19:31] <mpt> Sounds a bit like Ubuntu Tweak
[19:32] <mpt> agh, debconf
[19:33] <superm1> you might want to install it in a sandbox if you dont have a lot of media stuff on your comp
[19:33] <superm1> because it will pull in stuff like lirc
[19:33] <superm1> and mythtv-common and a bunch of other things
[19:33] <superm1> best thing to do if you want to see it in action is really to grab a daily mythbuntu image from cdimages.ubuntu.com/mythbuntu and look at it in a VM
[19:36] <pitti> tedg: works perfectly!
[19:36] <pitti> tedg: thank you
[19:36] <glatzor> hello superm1, do you access the dbus interface of aptdaemon directly or do you use the python client?
[19:36] <superm1> glatzor, python client
[19:36] <mpt> superm1, too late now. :-) I must resist commenting on the interface when I really should be going home, but one quick suggestion: Have you thought about putting the categories in a list on the left, instead of as buttons on the right?
[19:36] <superm1> glatzor, via python-aptdaemon-gtk
[19:36] <tedg> pitti: No problem!  Glad it works!
[19:37] <superm1> mpt, we originally had it on the left and for no logical reason moved it to the right
[19:38] <glatzor> superm1, if you have got any problems with the api feel free to fill a bug. currently the sync and async calls are mixed in the same module. I plan to provide a pure async client soon.
[19:39] <superm1> glatzor, it appeared to work functionally well for what we needed, i'll keep that in mind though :)
[19:39] <glatzor> see you!
[19:40]  * pitti hands rickspencer3 some stracciatella ice cream
[19:40] <rickspencer3> :)
[19:58] <mpt> Hm, Karmic's dictionary doesn't know what a "netbook" is
[19:58] <mpt> It also doesn't know what "doesn't" is
[19:58] <mpt> or "Hm"
[20:06] <mac_v> kwwii: has gpm been patched to use the right notification icons?
[20:07] <mac_v> s/right/notify-osd
[20:11] <seb128> mac_v, no
[20:11] <seb128> mac_v, we agreed it's not a gpm bug no?
[20:12] <seb128> mac_v, asac wrote a notify-osd patch for that
[20:12] <mac_v> seb128: but who is going to fix it ;) .... i dont think macslow agreed it was his bug either :)
[20:12] <seb128> nobody
[20:12] <seb128> there is a patch waiting for review, if mirco refuses it talk to davidbarth
[20:13] <mac_v> lol ... didnt know asac wrote a patch :)
[20:14] <mac_v> seb128: could you give me the bug# for the patch?
[20:14] <seb128> mac_v, lp:~asac/notify-osd/theme-icon-prefix
[20:14] <seb128> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~asac/notify-osd/theme-icon-prefix/+merge/12731
[20:15] <mac_v> awesome , thanks :)
[20:15] <seb128> mac_v, you're welcome
[20:15] <seb128> it seems mirco wants asac to confirm it's passing testsuite though
[20:15] <seb128> it seems mirco wants asac to confirm it's passing testsuite though
[20:20] <mac_v> seb128: hehe , i'v been trying to get Mirco to patch notify-osd to recognize the labels for a very long time... luckily he's not online else he'd probably kill me , for bringing this up again  ;p
[20:21] <seb128> lol
[20:21] <seb128> we could just be distro patching the change for karmic
[20:22]  * mac_v beginning to love the word  "distro patching" :)
[21:10] <tkamppeter> pitti, still around?
[21:10] <pitti> hi tkamppeter
[21:11] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have donme two fixes on the "usb" CUPS backend, especially I have fixed bug 450513.
[21:11] <tkamppeter> pitti: Now all USB issues should be fixed.
[21:11] <pitti> nice
[21:11] <pitti> so we just need to fix the FTBFS
[21:11] <tkamppeter> pitti, that's it.
[21:14] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have already tried to run this test program (testhttp) on my own machine and it passes.
[21:14] <tkamppeter> pitti, also in a local package build it passes for me.
[21:25] <tedg> mac_v: seb128: MacSlow mentioned in today's status call that asac hasn't responded to pings about the patch... not sure what's up there, they need to talk.
[21:28] <Amaranth> hrm
[21:28] <Amaranth> dput just uploaded .debs
[21:30] <tormod> pitti, it seems the live CD automounts all partitions, which can be bad
[21:30] <tormod> pitti, my up-to-date install doesn't do it
[21:30] <pitti> tormod: uh, it's not supposed to do that; last time it asked for auth
[21:30] <tormod> pitti, it boots up to a desktop with everything mounted
[21:31] <tormod> I am sitting on the live CD now, if you want to check anything
[21:31] <pitti> tormod: I guess it's reproducible everywhere then
[21:31] <pitti> tormod: can you please report it against gvfs and assign to me?
[21:31] <tormod> I guess so, this is a normal disk with normal partitions
[21:31] <tormod> okdok
[21:33] <Amaranth> oh, I didn't build it right :P
[21:34]  * Amaranth is a little rusty
[21:35] <tormod> pitti, filed bug 451613 but apport did not attach much, so please tell what I can provide
[21:35] <pitti> tormod: should be fine; mainly need it for tracking
[21:35] <tormod> ok
[21:36] <tormod> just asking since I am gonna reboot into the installed system again
[21:36] <tkamppeter> pitti, there was a server crash here on IRC, did you get my last messages?
[21:36] <pitti> tkamppeter: I did, yes
[21:36] <tkamppeter> pitti, about that the test which fails on the build server passes on my local box.
[21:37] <seb128> tedg, right, though the ping was a bit ridiculous
[21:37] <seb128> tedg, right, though the ping was a bit ridiculous
[21:37] <seb128> tedg, right, though the ping was a bit ridiculous, it was "does it pass the testsuite", which mirco could run too
[21:38] <seb128> tedg, sorry about the earlier enter hit ;-)
[21:49] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, nice to see my bug fix
[21:49] <kenvandine> :)
[21:51] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i pushed the fix for displaying the icon... it is actually much better now than it was
[21:51] <kenvandine> seb128, bug 435329
[21:51] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, cool
[21:53] <kenvandine> seb128, can you sponsor that
[21:57] <seb128> kenvandine, I'm about to go to bed but I will do that tomorrow morning for sure yes
[21:57] <seb128> 'night everybody
[21:58] <kenvandine> ok
[22:09] <chrisccoulson> bratsche - if an application calls gtk_alignment_set_padding() on something which is already drawn on the screen, do widgets get realigned straight away, or does that call register some events on the main loop which get dispatched later on?
[22:32] <bratsche> chrisccoulson: It won't be visibly different until the mainloop runs.
[22:32] <chrisccoulson> bratsche - thanks
[22:33] <bratsche> Because all the affected widgets will have to respond to paint events and probably size allocation changes and stuff.
[22:33] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i thought that might be the case
[23:00] <asac> mac_v: tedg: i answered and think that patch needs to be done after karmic
[23:00] <asac> we have to discuss exactly what we want etc.
[23:00] <tedg> asac: Okay, cool.  Thanks!
[23:01] <kwwii> tedg: do you know how far from the hotel the next mall is?
[23:01] <asac> unless its really important. but it feels it would also trigger a general review of icon names etc.
[23:01] <asac> so its out of scope imo
[23:01] <kwwii> UDS/sprint I mean
[23:01] <tedg> asac: I'm told that kwwii likes drawing icons.  That's no big deal.
[23:02] <tedg> kwwii: Uhm, not sure exactly, but it can't be too far.  And I'll have a car...  I'm sure there's one on the light rail.
[23:02] <asac> haha
[23:02] <kwwii> tedg: so there is a way to get around from where we are! wow, that is new
[23:03] <tedg> kwwii: I haven't looked at the final hotel, but the others had the light rail near them.
[23:03] <kwwii> I wanted to find a teavana shop in texas to get this killer tea I bought last year in St. Louis but it seems they don't sell tea in texas
[23:04] <kwwii> tedg: I thought about renting a car on the weekend anyway
[23:04] <kwwii> thanks
[23:04] <kwwii> I'll show up at your place, one way or the other
[23:05] <tedg> kwwii: There's a TRE station near by.  Which isn't great.
[23:05] <tedg> kwwii: Basically that's a "big train" so every half hour or so.
[23:05] <kwwii> oh, and I might have an ex-girlfiend with me, if thath is ok
[23:05] <kwwii> that
[23:05] <tedg> kwwii: Sure, I don't think it'd be a big deal.  Are you not going to St. Louis?
[23:05] <kwwii> tedg: lol, that is perfect...more than expected for a european traveller
[23:06] <kwwii> tedg: nope, it is too expsensive.. I would rather save my miles for a trip home at christmas for the family
[23:06] <tedg> kwwii: Ah, makes sense.  Plus it'll be cold in St. Louis :)
[23:07]  * kwwii just booked all the flights, so far, for the rest of the year...it is something like my 23rd trip
[23:07] <kwwii> tedg: what will the weather be? I assume that a light jacket will be enough?
[23:07] <kwwii> 23rd trip this year
[23:10] <kwwii> anyway..time for sleep...night all
[23:11] <tedg> kwwii: Yeah, if it rains you might want something more for that.  But it should be nice.
[23:26] <Amaranth> how do you upgrade launchpad branches to the latest pack format?