[00:00] <jbicha> anyone able to confirm bug 452622 ?
[01:04] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: just the man I want to see
[01:04] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: would you be able to make a Tues. 01:00 UTC meeting?
[01:10] <jbicha> I contributed a patch for my bug, is anyone able to sponsor?
[01:10] <LaserJock> jbicha: bug #?
[01:10] <jbicha> bug 452622
[01:18] <LaserJock> jbicha: so if that works does moodle install ok with mysql?
[01:19] <jbicha> yes, install mysql-server and php-mysql before installing moodle
[01:21] <LaserJock> jbicha: but postgresql is still not working?
[01:23] <jbicha> I've never used postgresql so I'm not sure why it produces the PGSL.5342 error
[01:24] <LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if it's a similar problem
[01:24] <LaserJock> did you try it after your apache fix?
[01:25] <LaserJock> 5342 is apparently the port that postgresql works on
[01:26] <jbicha> not yet, I could hunt around and see if I could get it to work
[01:29] <jbicha> grep: /etc/postgresql///pg_hba.conf: No such file or directory
[01:29] <jbicha> Your settings in /etc/postgresql///pg_hba.conf do not allow me to continue.
[01:30] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: hi
[01:30] <LaserJock> ah, I've seen that one before
[01:30] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: let me check what time is that
[01:30] <jbicha> etc/postgresql/$VERSION/$CLUSTER/pg_hba.conf
[01:31] <LaserJock> jbicha: but you don't get the PGSL.5342 error?
[01:31] <jbicha> I thought the errors were the same, looking...
[01:31] <LaserJock> oh
[01:33] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: 1UTC is just 9am here
[01:33] <jsgotangco> so its workable
[01:34] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: ok, I'm looking over the results from our poll
[01:34] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: and that seems to be one that you'd have a chance of making
[01:34] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: what time is 13:00-19:00 UTC in your TZ?
[01:35] <jsgotangco> 13 is 9pm
[01:35] <jsgotangco> so that's workable
[01:35] <jsgotangco> 19 is 3am
[01:35] <jsgotangco> i should be ok form 13 to 16
[01:37] <LaserJock> ok, excellent
[01:38] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: there were 4 times that looked good from the poll
[01:38] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: 2 of then look to be OK for you/asia
[01:38] <jsgotangco> generally if its morning in eu, its afternoon here so the difference isn't that big for us
[01:39] <jsgotangco> are you in the east coast or west?
[01:39] <LaserJock> east now
[01:39] <jsgotangco> that's better that means our difference is just 10 hours or less
[01:39] <LaserJock> jbicha: it looks like a big part of the problem is that it looks like moodle is being installed before postgresql
[01:40] <jsgotangco> so its probably just a quarter before 9pm there
[01:40] <LaserJock> jbicha: running dpkg --configure -a after install seems to clear some things up
[01:40] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: yep
[01:46] <jbicha> LaserJock: yes, installing postgresql first works for me
[01:46] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:46] <LaserJock> the dpkg --configure -a cleared up everything
[01:46] <LaserJock> I got a seemingly fully working moodle
[01:47] <jbicha> but during the text-based install, the install completely stops at that point
[01:49] <LaserJock> well, it could be because the task failed
[01:51] <jbicha> on the other hand, if you choose mysql, the installation won't stop even though mysql is not available in the installer
[01:55] <LaserJock> jbicha: btw, you're debdiff for the localhost issue looks good
[01:56] <LaserJock> jbicha: we're under Final Freeze right now which mean *every* upload has to be approved by the release team but I'll upload it if they approve it
[01:56] <jbicha> that's my first patch, good thing the fix was simple
[02:02] <LaserJock> jbicha: can you reupload a patch that just adds the localhost but keeps the 127.0.0.1 too
[02:03] <jbicha> I believe localhost works without the explicit 127.0.0.1
[02:12] <LaserJock> I know
[02:13] <jbicha> I just confirmed on Jaunty which didn't have the localhost issue
[02:13] <LaserJock> here's what the release manager said:
[02:13] <LaserJock> I think you probably want to list both values, then?  Otherwise, you'll also be denying connections to <hostname> on systems that have dynamic IPs, which is arguably a regression?
[02:13] <jbicha> do you still want me to keep the 127.0.0.1?
[02:13] <LaserJock> yeah, just add the localhost
[02:13] <jbicha> ok, I'm not that great at networking
[02:13] <LaserJock> that way we're not removing anything, just adding
[02:13] <LaserJock> neither am I
[02:14] <jbicha> ok
[02:14] <LaserJock> but it seems like the least possible way of having a regression
[02:34] <jbicha> I uploaded the new patch
[02:38] <LaserJock> jbicha: awesome, thanks
[03:10] <LaserJock> sweet, new daily out
[03:10] <LaserJock> and we only added 0.5GB
[04:59] <sbalneav> Evening all
[05:03] <jbicha> good morning
[05:06] <alkisg> Good morning
[05:10] <sbalneav> So, looking into CiBux, which is what Skolelinux uses for ldap user management.
[05:10] <alkisg> I think the german .pdf has all the info for it... we need ogra for translation :)
[05:11] <sbalneav> I was happy to see that debian-edu was glad to see an edubuntu-er (?) in there.
[05:11] <alkisg> Ah, you got in contact with them?
[05:11] <sbalneav> Yup, did some chatting today,
[05:12] <sbalneav> LaserJock's going to answer all my packaging questions next week
[05:12] <sbalneav> So, hopefully, I'll be able to start being more useful in fixing bugs.
[05:12] <sbalneav> Well, I've actally fixed LOTS of bugs, but I've never known how to actually DO anything with the fixes :)
[05:12] <alkisg> I couldn't understand from the docs, do they offer a "prepackaged" ldap schema?
[05:13] <sbalneav> Also, I want to spend some time next week cleaning out the bug list for LTSP
[05:13] <sbalneav> alkisg: yeah, they do.  But it's.... kinda non-standard :(
[05:13] <alkisg> Ugh... :(
[05:14] <sbalneav> I'm sure if someone explained to me all the wonderful advantages of it, I'd see the light, but for right now, it's "just one more thing to learn"
[05:14] <alkisg> I can help you with the bug cleaning if you want - I've been through them and I answered the ones that didn't involve code changes, but I could propose patches for the ones that you think are worth it.
[05:15] <sbalneav> Stephane will be there, so what I'd like to do is sit down with him for an hour and just bomb through them all.
[05:15] <alkisg> Sure that'd be the best
[05:15] <sbalneav> Figure out what's valid, and what's not.
[05:16] <sbalneav> What I'd really like to do is get all the LTSP stuff put to bed early in the 10.04 cycle, so I can concentrate on handbook, ldap, and fixing bugs in edu apps.
[05:17] <alkisg> Sounds like a nice plan.
[05:17] <alkisg> What I'd like to do is put LTSP in ubiquity
[05:18] <alkisg> ...a "[v] Install an LTSP server" somewhere in the graphical installer
[05:21]  * alkisg has to leave for school, bye all
[08:33] <alkisg> Hmmm there's a "Qt3 assistant" in the "Applications > Programming" menu in the karmic edubuntu dvd, which should be removed...
[08:34] <alkisg> The same for Xscreensaver
[08:39] <alkisg> Ah qcad depends on qt3-assistant... grrrr... The xscreensaver can be safely removed, though
[08:39] <alkisg> (or just ship qcad without the docs)
[08:44] <alkisg> I see 18 languages installed, but I've never heard some of them... maybe LaserJock should recheck the list...
[08:50] <alkisg> Next, the text installer... I don't see the installer text in Greek (all installer translations should be there; it's there in the Ubuntu CD)
[08:51]  * alkisg scratches the previous statement and blames launchpad for using old translations...
[08:51] <alkisg> Yup, I see a "Build LTSP chroot" task in the d-i
[15:03] <jbicha> good morning
[15:04] <jbicha> is there any way that the installer can make sure postgresql or mysql are completely installed before trying to install moodle?
[15:05] <LaserJock> well
[15:05] <LaserJock> I think pre-depends might work
[15:05] <LaserJock> but is not favorably looked upon
[15:05]  * alkisg also reports that "xscreensaver" and "qt3-assistant" should probably be removed...
[15:05] <ogra> not sure you can use "or" in pre-depends
[15:05] <LaserJock> ogra: no, I would use a pre-depends in the edubuntu-server metapackage
[15:06] <LaserJock> leaving moodle as is
[15:06] <ogra> ah, yeah, that might work
[15:07] <LaserJock> alkisg: currently Ubiquity doesn't seem to be removing the extra packages after install, I'm not sure if those are some that should be gone
[15:07] <alkisg> LaserJock: I think qt3-assistant is a dependency of qcad-doc
[15:07] <alkisg> But it really looks ugly to be in the menus
[15:08] <alkisg> About xscreensaver, I don't think the ubuntu dvd has it...
[15:08] <LaserJock> well, there's not a lot I can do about that
[15:08] <LaserJock> hmm
[15:09] <alkisg> ...and it can be safely removed, no dependencies there
[15:10] <LaserJock> sure, I just don't know how it's getting on there
[15:11] <LaserJock> I can see from the DVD manifest that we have xscreensaver but Ubuntu doesn't
[15:11] <alkisg> About qcad-doc, I just mentioned it to give it a thought that maybe we could ship qcad without qcad-docs for now... qt3-assistant is in the "programming" menu, we don't have anything else there, and of course if someone runs it it complains about qt3-docs missing. So it seems useless
[15:14] <jbicha> what about "the language support is not installed completely" that pops up after installation is complete
[15:14] <alkisg> jbicha: which language?
[15:15] <jbicha> almost all of them, here let me post the packages it wants to install
[15:16] <jbicha> http://paste.ubuntu.com/294736
[15:16] <LaserJock> hmm
[15:16] <LaserJock> I can't figure out how xscreensaver is getting on there
[15:21] <LaserJock> ok, I figured out the screensaver thing, kinda
[15:22] <LaserJock> xscreensaver-gl has a Recommends on xscreensaver|gnome-screensaver
[15:22] <LaserJock> we're installing gnome-screensaver as a part of ubuntu-desktop so I don't know why it's picking it up
[15:22] <LaserJock> but I think I can tell the seed to not let it on
[15:24] <LaserJock> as far as qcad-doc
[15:25] <LaserJock> we can also tell the seed to not include that
[15:25] <alkisg> Nice
[15:26] <LaserJock> the language thing I might have to dig a tad deeper
[15:30] <jbicha> I believe today's DVD is still pulling in LTSP
[15:45] <jbicha> LaserJock: I don't know much about how these DVDs work, but my edubuntu preseed seems to still be http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~laserjock/debian-cd/edubuntu/annotate/1503/data/karmic/preseed/edubuntu/i386/edubuntu.seed
[15:48] <LaserJock> jbicha: I know, my changes haven't been pulled in yet
[15:48] <LaserJock> jbicha: hopefully by the next daily they will be
[15:48] <LaserJock> jbicha: did you see Edubuntu Desktop as an option in the text-based installer?
[15:50] <jbicha> LaserJock: yes, it is checked by default
[15:50] <LaserJock> excellent
[15:50] <LaserJock> jbicha: was edubuntu-server there?
[15:50] <jbicha> no
[15:52] <LaserJock> great
[15:53] <jbicha> if we can get it to work, I'd like to see edubuntu-server back in there
[15:54] <LaserJock> perhaps rather we should hold off until Lucid
[15:54] <LaserJock> even if moodle was working, all edubuntu-server does is install moodle
[15:54] <LaserJock> it seems like it should install more than 1 thing to have such prominence
[15:55] <jbicha> what about openssh server? that only installs 1 thing
[15:56] <jbicha> LaserJock:  and everyone who tries to install moodle without first installing pgsql/mysql will have difficulties
[15:57] <LaserJock> jbicha: yes, but we're at Final Freeze
[15:57] <LaserJock> and you only expect that openssh server will install an openssh server
[15:58] <LaserJock> edubuntu-server sounds like a lot more than 1 package
[15:58] <LaserJock> rather 1 app
[15:59] <LaserJock> if it ends up that edubuntu-server is "fixed" and is well tested then I wouldn't have too much of an issue putting it back in
[15:59] <LaserJock> I think it's a little silly, but I wouldn't object solely on those grounds
[16:07] <LaserJock> jbicha: heh, I had to get back to that part of the installer to get what you mean about OpenSSH server
[16:07] <LaserJock> jbicha: I wish I could get rid of those items in the installer, but I think that'd take some real digging into the code
[16:08] <LaserJock> jbicha: but you're right, there is some other pretty useless stuff in there
[16:08] <jbicha> LaserJock: that's part of the alt ubuntu CD aso, I think it's pretty useful
[16:08] <jbicha> *also
[16:08] <LaserJock> well, I think it's maybe a bit confusing for our users
[16:08] <LaserJock> "hmm, what does Mail server mean? do I want that?"
[16:09] <LaserJock> "Samba, what the heck is that?"
[16:10] <jbicha> LaserJock: yeah, good point
[16:11] <LaserJock> of course one might argue that if you're using the text-based installer you should maybe already know or have a good guess what they mean
[16:16] <jbicha> well, Ubuntu's sorta African, and Samba's the Lion King, so it sounds pretty useful to me
[16:16] <jbicha> :-)
[17:02] <cprofitt> LaserJock, are you here?
[17:05] <LaserJock> cprofitt: yep
[17:05] <cprofitt> Cool...
[17:05] <cprofitt> I am being interviewed by an on-line educations magazine about open source
[17:05] <cprofitt> and they want me to discuss edubuntu a bit
[17:06] <LaserJock> nifty
[17:06] <cprofitt> wondering if I could get some information about the project and its future plans for you...
[17:06] <LaserJock> sure
[17:08] <LaserJock> cprofitt: got any particular questions in mind?
[17:09] <cprofitt> will the project have a release with 9.10?
[17:09] <LaserJock> cprofitt: or should I just ramble ;-)
[17:09] <LaserJock> cprofitt: yes
[17:09] <cprofitt> how can k-12 educators get involved with the project?
[17:09] <cprofitt> is there a list of the add-on software that will be included with 9.10?
[17:09] <LaserJock> cprofitt: we will be releasing a full DVD for 9.10 (a dramatic shift from previous releases)
[17:10]  * cprofitt smiles
[17:10] <cprofitt> nice... that will be fantastic
[17:10] <LaserJock> this will be somewhat of a rough release
[17:10] <jbicha> LaserJock: I created a moodle patch for bug 440098 that pre-depends on either pqsql or mysql, but how can I test-install it?
[17:11] <LaserJock> cprofitt: I would call it more of a preview release
[17:11]  * cprofitt nods
[17:11] <LaserJock> cprofitt: what we did was take the Ubuntu base + the Edubuntu addon and start making our own DVD
[17:11] <LaserJock> so there aren't a lot of new features
[17:11] <cprofitt> I like the idea of doing that...
[17:12] <cprofitt> I think it is a step in the right direction....
[17:12] <LaserJock> but of course the existing packages have been updated
[17:12] <cprofitt> about teachers getting involved... is there a way for them to do so?
[17:12] <LaserJock> sure
[17:12] <LaserJock> 1) test, test, test
[17:13] <LaserJock> we're always in need of feedback from teachers who are actually using the software on the ground
[17:13] <LaserJock> we want to know how they're using it
[17:13] <LaserJock> what would make their life easier
[17:13] <cprofitt> is there an LP team to join, or should they just send email to ?
[17:13] <LaserJock> email is probably best
[17:13] <cprofitt> k
[17:13] <cprofitt> to you?
[17:13] <LaserJock> either edubuntu-users or edubuntu-devel
[17:13] <cprofitt> mail list...
[17:13] <cprofitt> k
[17:14] <LaserJock> edubuntu-devel is a friendly place
[17:14] <cprofitt> as an FYI to introduce myself -- I am a Systems Administrator in a K-12
[17:14] <LaserJock> I've found that teachers think you have to be an uber-coder to join a -devel list
[17:14] <LaserJock> but edubuntu-devel is a great place to just throw stuff out, see what's going on, etc.
[17:14] <cprofitt> and will be giving a presentation on equity in schools which will feature F/OSS and ubuntu/edubuntu
[17:15] <LaserJock> excellent
[17:15] <cprofitt> I will make sure teachers do not think that
[17:15] <LaserJock> I've seen you around here or there
[17:15] <LaserJock> we have a big need for documentation
[17:15] <LaserJock> even things like "this is how you use <edu app>"
[17:15] <cprofitt> the magazine might have me do a monthly Q&A on F/OSS
[17:15] <cprofitt> sounds like I can help round some people up for documentation
[17:15] <cprofitt> if you have the time LaserJock - http://www.classroom20.com/
[17:15] <LaserJock> or more interesting "this is how you can use <edu app> in your classroom to teach <subject>"
[17:16] <cprofitt> is a good place for some very forward thinking educators and administrators in K-12
[17:16] <cprofitt> brb -- kids fighting
[17:16] <LaserJock> we also need artwork
[17:16] <LaserJock> if there are artistically-inclined folks out there we'd love to have user contributions to our artwork package
[17:17] <LaserJock> also sys admin scripts
[17:17] <LaserJock> if there's something you're constantly having to do an you've scripted a way to do it that you think might be helpful for others we're likely to start putting those in a central "repository" so other people can use/modify/contribute
[17:18] <jbicha> LaserJock: is there a way I can test-install my package to see if it correctly pulls in mysql or pgsql ?
[17:20] <cprofitt> back LaserJock
[17:20] <LaserJock> jbicha: you need to do the predepends in edubuntu-server, not moodle
[17:21] <LaserJock> jbicha: you can't use the | in Pre-depends
[17:21] <LaserJock> cprofitt: in terms of roadmap, we're trying to align ourselves more with a focus on LTS releases
[17:21] <cprofitt> I would think that best LaserJock
[17:21] <cprofitt> every six months is too much
[17:21] <LaserJock> cprofitt: essentially making LTS releases the "this is what you should install"
[17:22] <LaserJock> we'll still have 6 month releases, but we'll be doing more of a cycle as follows
[17:22] <LaserJock> LTS (primary release)
[17:22] <cprofitt> for schools and teachers to handle....
[17:22] <LaserJock> LTS+1 maintenance (SRU, etc.)
[17:22] <jbicha> LaserJock: but moodle already pre-depends using a | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/karmic/moodle/karmic/annotate/head%3A/debian/control
[17:22] <LaserJock> LTS+2 new features, rapid development
[17:22] <LaserJock> LTS+3 features basically complete
[17:23] <LaserJock> LTS+4 == LTS
[17:24] <cprofitt> nice LaserJock
[17:24] <LaserJock> jbicha: ok, give it a try then
[17:24] <cprofitt> is there an LP team I should join or just join the mailing lists?
[17:24] <LaserJock> cprofitt: we're still trying to get things in shape, transitioning to a DVD is not easy
[17:25]  * cprofitt nods
[17:25] <LaserJock> cprofitt: the DVD for 9.10 should be capable of: 1) installing a standalone (no LTSP) Edubuntu desktop from a Live system 2) install a standalone Edubuntu desktop (with or without LTSP) from the text-based installer
[17:25] <LaserJock> and you can install just plain Ubuntu if you want ;-)
[17:25] <LaserJock> the Live part also allows you to demo the educational apps
[17:26] <LaserJock> which has been a common request
[17:26] <cprofitt> nice
[17:26] <LaserJock> cprofitt: for now the mailing lists are good
[17:26] <LaserJock> cprofitt: we're currently undergoing a LP team overhaul
[17:26] <cprofitt> ok... let me know when/if I should join an LP team.
[17:26] <LaserJock> we'll be sending out emails I think as things progress
[17:27] <cprofitt> I give two presentations a year in my state to the EDU crowd and want to ensure that I try and contribute what I can to the project
[17:27] <cprofitt> LaserJock, have you heard of the UCLP project?
[17:27] <LaserJock> yeah
[17:27] <LaserJock> I would like to say that the *best* way teachers and IT admins can ensure that Edubuntu works for them is to get involved
[17:27] <cprofitt> I want to have some courses in the UCLP which will help districts train their teachers to use edubuntu.
[17:28] <cprofitt> I agree on the getting involved...
[17:28] <LaserJock> even just testing out the Betas is a big help, we for sure can't fix bugs we don't know about
[17:28] <LaserJock> cprofitt: what's UCLP stand for?
[17:28] <jbicha> LaserJock: I don't think the patch should be in edubuntu-server, because we'll still have people that may try to install moodle w/o installing the database first
[17:28] <cprofitt> Ubuntu Community Learning Project
[17:29] <LaserJock> oh, right
[17:29] <cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
[17:29] <LaserJock> yeah
[17:29] <jbicha> LaserJock: unless we move all of the pre-setup-the-database stuff to edubuntu-server, and let people configure moodle the old-fashioned way
[17:29] <LaserJock> cprofitt: dinda hangs out here a bit
[17:29]  * cprofitt nods
[17:29] <LaserJock> cprofitt: I'm getting a number of requests for training resources
[17:29] <LaserJock> just private emails from people
[17:29] <LaserJock> I don't have time, resources for it
[17:29] <cprofitt> I hope we can develop them... if you want pass the requests to me
[17:30] <cprofitt> I really think the time is 'ripe' for Ubuntu and F/OSS in K-12
[17:30] <LaserJock> yep
[17:30] <cprofitt> restrained budgets, low cost computers, etc
[17:30] <cprofitt> I do not want to miss this window
[17:30] <LaserJock> training courses would be a really big way for people to contribute
[17:30] <LaserJock> jbicha: well, try it in moodle first and see
[17:31] <LaserJock> jbicha: I'd like to not mess with moodle if we can help it
[17:31] <cprofitt> will the DVD release be ready for later October or ?
[17:31] <jbicha> LaserJock: it's not messing with moodle any more than the pre-setup questions already do
[17:32] <jbicha> LaserJock: I'd like to test-install the package but I can't get Synaptic to install the file or dpkg to install the dependencies
[17:34] <cprofitt> LaserJock, the Moodle courses we make will be CC so schools should be able to download them to an Edubuntu server install w/ Moodle and use the courses
[17:35] <cprofitt> LaserJock, do you have a tentative release date for the 9.10 Edubutnu DVD?
[17:39] <LaserJock> cprofitt: Edubuntu releases same time as Ubuntu and Kubuntu
[17:40] <LaserJock> they're all built via the same scripts
[17:40] <jbicha> !karmic
[17:40] <LaserJock> jbicha: well, I mean we're adding a change that's not in Debian
[17:40] <LaserJock> jbicha: go ahead and test and see if it works
[17:40] <cprofitt> thanks LaserJock
[17:40] <jbicha> LaserJock: but I can't figure out how to test it
[17:41] <cprofitt> LaserJock, can you email me the list of training requests you have...
[17:41] <LaserJock> jbicha: apply your debdiff, build the .deb, and install it
[17:41] <cprofitt> that way I can try to get those courses built.
[17:42] <LaserJock> cprofitt: right now they're very generic along the lines of 1) "how do I build a school lab using Edubuntu?" 2) "how do I install Edubuntu?" 3) "how do I use the edu apps?"
[17:42] <LaserJock> often it's geared towards "is there any training materials that I can point teachers to?"
[17:43] <LaserJock> jbicha: do you know how to build a .deb from your source package?
[17:43] <jbicha> LaserJock: I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/294825/ but I can't fully tell if that fixes the bug or not
[17:44] <LaserJock> jbicha: you're using dpkg -i to install it?
[17:44] <jbicha> yes
[17:44] <LaserJock> run apt-get -f install and see if that helps
[17:45] <cprofitt> LaserJock, basic or generic is fine with me. Anything will help. If I can get the email of the requester I would be happy to interface with them
[17:45] <cprofitt> As a sysadmin for a K-12 I have to figure out what teachers are saying very often
[17:45] <cprofitt> :-)
[17:45] <jbicha> E: Couldn't find package moodle_1.9.4.dfsg-0ubuntu4_all.deb
[17:46] <LaserJock> jbicha: hmmpf
[17:46] <jbicha> it seems like dpkg & the apt database are two separate things
[17:46] <LaserJock> cprofitt: ok, I'll dig through my email and forward what I find
[17:46] <LaserJock> jbicha: kinda
[17:47] <cprofitt> thanks LaserJock
[17:47] <LaserJock> jbicha: try grabbing the .debs for the postgresql dependencies
[17:47] <jbicha> LaserJock: what if I put in my PPA ?
[17:48] <LaserJock> jbicha: yeah, that'd work
[17:48] <LaserJock> I think the Air Force might expect me to get some work done today
[17:48] <LaserJock> so I think I better take off for a while
[17:48] <cprofitt> LaserJock, this is the rough on what I will add to the questions they asked about F/OSS and Ubuntu
[17:48] <cprofitt> http://pastebin.com/d5f4de57b
[17:50] <LaserJock> cprofitt: coolio
[17:50] <cprofitt> this would be the complete version -- http://pastebin.com/d6979cf2f
[17:50] <cprofitt> with their questions...
[17:51] <cprofitt> I will let you know if this does turn in to a monthly column.
[17:52] <LaserJock> cprofitt: btw, it might be worth mentioning that ZaReason sells computers with Edubuntu preinstalled
[17:52] <cprofitt> ZaReason... let me check them out
[17:53] <LaserJock> they're roughly like System76
[17:53] <cprofitt> do they take POs from schools?
[17:53] <LaserJock> I have no idea
[17:54] <LaserJock> they're just the only people I know that offer Edubuntu as an option
[17:54] <cprofitt> k... will do some research on them...
[17:54] <cprofitt> and I will try to give them a mention as well.
[17:54]  * LaserJock is out but will read backlog later
[18:38] <alkisg> sbalneav: (Hi!) You said yesterday that you've been using shared desktops for years... how do you handle the case where one user changes seats, and needs to share his desktop with another user? How do you migrate his documents?
[19:17] <jbicha> grr... I have to wait 5 hours for this PPA to build
[19:21] <LaserJock> I hate you Internet Explorer!!!!!!!!
[19:21]  * mhall119|work feels LaserJock's pain
[19:22] <LaserJock> it's also annoying to work for a company that's 3000 miles away :/
[19:24] <LaserJock> I try to do all my financial stuff via IE and Outlook
[19:24] <LaserJock> and bamm the whole thing crashes
[19:28] <cprofitt> LaserJock, I feel you pain... I have to work with MS and Apple products at work
[19:28] <LaserJock> I was successfully MS free for 3 years (except for Tax time) before this job
[19:28] <LaserJock> now I've got Vista :(
[19:29] <LaserJock> and a crashing IE
[19:29] <jbicha> wow, bleeding edge for the US govt
[19:32] <LaserJock> we're all converting over
[19:32] <LaserJock> I got a new computer so I got to be an early user/victim
[19:33] <mhall119|work> lucky you
[19:33] <sbalneav> alkisg: We've used shared folders for years.
[19:33] <LaserJock> yeah, they take you computer for 1.5-2 days when they upgrade them
[19:33] <cprofitt> gah
[19:33] <cprofitt> 1.5 days for a conversion?
[19:33] <alkisg> Heya sbalneav. How do you handle the case where a user switches "teams"?
[19:33] <sbalneav> $HOME is for personal documents, and we set up a /home/share
[19:34] <cprofitt> We can do one in 1 hour
[19:34] <sbalneav> Teams we usually handle with groups
[19:34] <sbalneav> so, we have /home/team1share
[19:34] <sbalneav> /home/team2share
[19:34] <LaserJock> cprofitt: yeah, well, government
[19:34] <sbalneav> eetc.
[19:34] <LaserJock> cprofitt: they have to reinstall everything
[19:35] <sbalneav> group owned, sticky bit and/or acls
[19:35] <alkisg> sbalneav: what I mean is: Students s1, s2 and s3 sit in PC1. Two of them fight, so s3 needs to go to sit in PC2. What do you do with the shared folder in that case?
[19:35] <cprofitt> LaserJock, we use images...
[19:35] <sbalneav> So, you'd have /home/pc1share
[19:35] <sbalneav> /home/pc2share
[19:35] <cprofitt> and reinstall everything...
[19:36] <sbalneav> and /home/globalshare
[19:36] <sbalneav> copy documents from /home/pc1share -> globalshare
[19:36] <sbalneav> change students group
[19:36] <sbalneav> move document from global -> pc2share
[19:37] <sbalneav> mv's and/or cp's as applicable.
[19:37] <sbalneav> Or, if easier, use mail.
[19:37] <alkisg> Won't that overwrite the existing files in pc2share? (from exersices with the same name...)
[19:37] <sbalneav> A name change might be required, yes.
[19:38] <cprofitt> sbalneav, are the files on a server?
[19:38] <sbalneav> LTSP servers, yes.  We also have NFS shared home dirs.
[19:39] <mhall119|work> sbalneav: why all teh share stuff?
[19:39] <alkisg> Is NFS encrypted?
[19:40] <alkisg> I.e. if someone listens on the network, will he be able to pick up the data from ~/.* configuration files?
[19:40] <cprofitt> I am not familiar with your setup...
[19:40] <sbalneav> mhall119|work: Well, we work in a work environment.  Just because one secretary creates a document, doesn't mean during the life of the document, he/sh will be the only one WORKING on it.
[19:40] <cprofitt> is the student moving from one computer/terminal to another?
[19:40] <sbalneav> alkisg: NFS is not normally encrypted, no.
[19:41] <mhall119|work> sbalneav: right, but wouldn't symlinks or something work better?
[19:41] <sbalneav> No
[19:41] <sbalneav> Who's going to create and/or maintain all those symlinks?
[19:41] <mhall119|work> just symlink folders
[19:41] <sbalneav> Setting up a shared folder's a ONE TIME thing.
[19:41] <alkisg> sbalneav: what do you think about the idea to, instead of using groups, have a script "rsync" the shared folder (between teams) each time the users log off?
[19:41] <mhall119|work> sbalneav: or use something like unionfs
[19:41] <cprofitt> sbalneav, shared folders and home directories should not need to be moved if they are on a server
[19:41] <sbalneav> I think it's a bad idea.
[19:42] <sbalneav> too much can go wrong.
[19:42] <alkisg> I.e. /home/user1/Documents/shared <rsync-with> /home/user2/Documents/shared
[19:42] <sbalneav> cprofitt: correct, and they don't need to be.
[19:42] <cprofitt> ok...
[19:42] <cprofitt> I misunderstood your question then
[19:42] <cprofitt> my apologies.
[19:42] <sbalneav> mhall119|work: How's unionfs going to work over a network?
[19:43] <sbalneav> you need a network filesystem to unionfs with
[19:43] <mhall119|work> I think you can unionfs two NFS mounts
[19:43] <sbalneav> Hmmmmmm I wonder what a good Network File System is.....?
[19:43] <sbalneav> Network File System
[19:43] <sbalneav> mhall119|work: Why?
[19:44] <sbalneav> What's that going to do that having shared directories ISN'T going to do
[19:44] <alkisg> sbalneav: what exactly do you export with nfs? The whole /home?
[19:44] <sbalneav> yes
[19:44] <alkisg> And, do you have any local accounts in e.g. /localhome ?
[19:44] <alkisg> (for emergencies)
[19:44] <sbalneav> I can.
[19:45] <sbalneav> Usually, I just use root for that :)
[19:45] <sbalneav> (I'm bad and set a root password DON'T TELL ROCKETMAN!!!)
[19:45] <alkisg> I'd like 1 user to be able to teach when the server is down... :)
[19:45] <alkisg> :D
[19:46] <sbalneav> So, set up one "local" ony user per machine
[19:46] <LaserJock> is it ok that I'm totally confused by the conversation?
[19:46] <sbalneav> everyone else just nfs mounts /home from the server.
[19:46] <sbalneav> it's like 1 line in /etc/fstab :)
[19:46] <sbalneav> LaserJock: We're talking about shared home directories.
[19:46] <alkisg> And, all the user home dirs *have* to be on the server, right? I mean, I can't have /home/user1 on pc1, and /home/user2 on pc2, and share /home with nfs, right?
[19:47] <sbalneav> alkisg: Well, not without a lot of difficulty.  For the cost of one extra machine, just set up an NFS server.
[19:48] <alkisg> OK, thanks a lot sbalneav.... when will you be so kind to put up a wiki page to tell us dumb teachers how to setup that with full details? :D
[19:49] <LaserJock> you know
[19:49] <LaserJock> the thing that I find the hardest about LTSP is that there's like an infinite number of combinations to putting the pieces together
[19:50] <sbalneav> alkisg: sure.
[19:50] <sbalneav> LaserJock: And a desktop, and a network, and a database, etc etc etc.
[19:51] <sbalneav> I set up our original network here at Legal Aid in 1992
[19:53] <LaserJock> right, but like Ubuntu you can basically just plop it out of the box
[19:53] <LaserJock> but with all the different network and server configurations you can do
[19:53] <LaserJock> I don't know how you ever get all that great of documentation for LTSP
[19:53] <sbalneav> So I've had 17 years of beating the bugs out of the system.  Like a lot of system administrators, I'm secretly lazy, so I want things to work with the minimum amount of fuss down the road.
[19:53] <sbalneav> Well, it's tough.
[19:53] <LaserJock> unless you go to concrete "profiles"
[19:54] <sbalneav> Yeah, but you can't go with anything concrete
[19:55] <sbalneav> because then some guy like alkisg comes along with his completely whacky "3 people sitting in front of a machine" scheme.  I'm sure it works for him, and I'm sure he has good reasons for it, but it's kind of hard to account for EVERY possible way to use a tool.
[19:57] <sbalneav> What a "professional sysadmin" <bwahahaha> like me tries to do is try to get people to be AS BOG STANDARD as I can cajole/wheedle/browbeat/insult them into being, knowing that DOWN THE ROAD, it's what's going to cost them the least amount of grief.
[19:57] <sbalneav> After that, we try to accommodate oddities "as best we can"
[20:01] <alkisg> In Greece I think that the majority of teachers only use one user account per PC, always logged on, and have different folders for each class in the desktop
[20:01] <alkisg> A few ones have 1 account per class/per pc, and I think I'm the only one that tried to have 1 account per user and failed... :(
[20:02] <mhall119|work> sbalneav: sorry, had to step out for a minute
[20:04] <LaserJock> sbalneav: sometimes I think it is better to settle on a few "typical" or "supported" use cases and document them very well than being so vague in order to cover many possible use cases
[20:05] <LaserJock> at least that's how I felt when trying to write the packaging guide
[20:05] <alkisg> That's what I'd like to have in edubuntu... "prepackaged solutions" for such problems :)
[20:06] <alkisg> (for the typical solutions, I mean...)
[20:07] <LaserJock> I just don't know what "typical solutions" are when it comes to LTSP
[20:07] <LaserJock> I can figure it out for the edu apps and maybe an edubuntu server
[20:08] <alkisg> LaserJock: there is a very well defined typical solution for LTSP
[20:08] <alkisg> You need 2 NICs on the server, 1 is connected to the internet, the other one to a switch with the ltsp clients
[20:09] <alkisg> It works out of the box in that case - no configuration file editing needed
[20:12] <alkisg> Ah, here's another one struggling with shared desktops... Hi Lns! :)
[20:13] <Lns> struggling? =)
[20:13] <Lns> hey alkisg
[20:14] <alkisg> (we were talking about what happens when 3 people are sitting in a PC and have different accounts but a common shared folder, and one of them needs to move to another pc... )
[20:14] <Lns> sitting in a pc? that's gotta be hard! =p
[20:15] <Lns> I think shared folders would be your last line of concern with that kind of a setup
[20:15] <alkisg> Heh!!!
[20:15] <Lns> you mean 3 people on a single pc?
[20:15] <alkisg> Yup
[20:15] <Lns> how do you even do that?
[20:15] <alkisg> Well, if you have 30 students, and 10 pcs, what are you gonna do?
[20:16] <Lns> so there's 3 people sitting simultaneously at a pc
[20:16] <alkisg> Yup. 2 or 3 usually.
[20:16] <Lns> common shared folder between all 30 users? or just the 3?
[20:16] <alkisg> Just the 3. And maybe one global folder for the teacher to put the assignments
[20:16] <Lns> k
[20:17] <Lns> how is it 'shared' ?
[20:17] <mhall119|work> alkisg: are all 3 logged in with different user accounts at the same time?
[20:17] <alkisg> mhall119|work: I'm still trying to find out the best way to organize this... Usually, teachers here only have 1 account per pc!!!
[20:18] <Lns> alkisg: are these ltsp clients or standalone pcs?
[20:18] <alkisg> mhall119|work: but, like sbalneav said, it's probably better to let only one of them logon
[20:18] <alkisg> Lns: it doesn't really matter, does it?
[20:18] <Lns> maybe not, but it'd help to clarify
[20:18] <Lns> common fileserver is the question i guess?
[20:18] <alkisg> Lns, I'd like a common solution for both cases, as I'd like to propose the solution to all schools in greece that use linux
[20:19] <alkisg> Yes, a common fileserver, either ltsp or nfs
[20:19] <Lns> k
[20:20] <Lns> well i mean, a fileserver is going to be your answer...shared folders that work across user accounts..ldap+nfs?
[20:20] <Lns> not sure what the issue is exactly
[20:20] <alkisg> The problem is that handling the shared folders takes a lot of time...
[20:21] <Lns> what do you mean?
[20:21] <mhall119|work> alkisg: explain to me why the shared folders are necessary
[20:21] <alkisg> OK let's start with that
[20:21] <alkisg> 3 people sitting on the same PC. One of them logs on.
[20:22] <alkisg> When the lesson ends, shouldn't the other people have the files from the exercises?
[20:22] <alkisg> If only one of them logs on, only he gets to have the files
[20:23] <alkisg> (I mean e.g. a drawing that they did, or a document that they wrote)
[20:23] <mhall119|work> okay, so 3 students taking the lesson together, but only using a single account?
[20:23] <alkisg> Can you think of a better way?
[20:23] <mhall119|work> hmm....
[20:24] <alkisg> ...and maybe the next week the other student gets to logon... taking turns
[20:24] <mhall119|work> are these persistant groupings?
[20:24] <alkisg> Usually yes, except for when they fight and they need to change groups
[20:24] <alkisg> Maybe once per year...
[20:24] <mhall119|work> and they need to take their old work to the new grouping?
[20:24] <alkisg> It'd be nice if they could, yes
[20:24] <alkisg> That's the worst part :(
[20:25] <Lns> imho the most flexible approach is going to be "shared folders"...whatever method you choose to do that is really up to you though. I'm not sure what you mean by it being hard to manage them.
[20:25] <alkisg> Lns, I need to create a group for each of those groups.
[20:25] <Lns> ok
[20:25] <Lns> or you could use ACLs
[20:25] <alkisg> E.g. if I have 300 students, I'll need 300 accounts, and 100 groups
[20:25] <Lns> k
[20:25] <Lns> and? =)
[20:25] <alkisg> And I'll need 100 shared folders, with the correct groups and symlinks etc
[20:26] <Lns> or you could just use one user account for the 3 people and have 100 users and no groups
[20:26] <alkisg> And if one user needs to change seat (group) I'll need to change his group, create a new symlink etc
[20:26] <alkisg> Right
[20:26] <alkisg> That's what I proposed yesterday, but sbalneav said it's a bad idea legally
[20:27] <Lns> i dunno about legal stuff, but it seems kind of restrictive technically to me
[20:27] <Lns> what's up with symlinks? are you doing this all on desktops?
[20:28] <Lns> why not have a /home/share tree with all the shared folders?
[20:28] <alkisg> That's what I thought, too. So now I don't know for which method I should start creating scripts for...
[20:28] <Lns> or /srv might be better as far as standardization goes
[20:28] <alkisg> Well, isn't it better if they see the shared folder inside their documents?
[20:28] <Lns> sure
[20:28] <Lns> with what you showed me with user-dirs.dirs would be easy :)
[20:28] <Lns> /home/user/Documents
[20:29] <mhall119|work> alkisg: how about if your shared folders are a unionfs of the individual user's folders
[20:29] <Lns> if user is in group xyz, sed -s user-dirs.dirs blah blah (upon login)
[20:30] <mhall119|work> I think you can set it up such that writing to the union-ed shared folder writes to all the individual user's folders
[20:30] <alkisg> Lns, sure, but again there's all the group (=seat) overhead...
[20:30] <mhall119|work> but then when you move a user, you have differing copies being union-ed together, I'm not sure how that gets handled
[20:30] <alkisg> mhall119|work: but how would that work if a user changed seat (=group)?
[20:30] <Lns> right...you sacrifice ease of use for flexibility in many situations like this
[20:31] <mhall119|work> alkisg: you change the union for the group, removing his/her folder from the old group share, and adding it to the new group share
[20:31]  * Lns needs to read up on unionfs
[20:31] <mhall119|work> yeah, i'm no expert in unionfs
[20:31] <mhall119|work> but I think that's possible
[20:32] <alkisg> mhall119|work: I think the "writes" only go to one of the directories, don't they?
[20:32] <mhall119|work> I don't know, I thought you could write to all
[20:32] <alkisg> I think you can read from many, but only write to one....
[20:33] <Lns> alkisg: the group membership overhead is a one-shot deal, after that the only time you'd need to touch it is if someone changes groups.
[20:33] <mhall119|work> you can write a FUSE filesystem do to this
[20:34] <alkisg> mhall119|work: ugh, I'm looking to make things easier :)
[20:34] <mhall119|work> lol
[20:34] <Lns> lol
[20:34] <alkisg> heh
[20:34] <mhall119|work> http://search.cpan.org/~dpavlin/Fuse-0.09/Fuse.pm
[20:35] <mhall119|work> Perl + Fuse, what could possibly go wrong?
[20:35] <alkisg> ;)
[20:36] <alkisg> Anyway... thanks a lot for you thoughts guys... argh I hate not having 1 PC per student :(
[20:41] <Lns> alkisg: that's like that in a lot of schools unfortunately :(
[20:44] <mhall119|work> alkisg: you could always just periodically rsync shared folders to user folders,and make them always save to the shared folder
[20:45] <alkisg> Well if they're gonna change seats, it's still going to be problematic (different contents)
[20:46] <Lns> yikes.
[20:47] <Lns> alkisg: so you need the stuff they're working on in the shared folder AS WELL as their home dir?
[20:48] <mhall119|work> alkisg: true, so maybe a separate folder for each assignment?
[20:49] <alkisg> Lns, their Documents dir could be their shared folder, no problem there.
[20:49] <Lns> k
[20:49] <Lns> so just adjust their user-dirs.dirs file whenever they log in
[20:50] <Lns> you have a lot of manual work to do no matter what, you have 3 people to a group. if you write a script you can only bunch up 3 at a time..100 runs of the script
[20:51] <alkisg> My goal is to make everything automatic :)
[20:51] <Lns> you have to do SOME work no matter what, man ;)
[20:51] <alkisg> ...the UI I'm thinking for the teacher is a classroom plan (?) where he drags'n'drops the students to the PCs where they're sitting..
[20:53] <Lns> you're going to design this?
[20:53] <alkisg> I hope so :)
[20:55] <LaserJock> alkisg: how do the students log in?
[20:55] <alkisg> I'm between 2 solutions: one, the classical one, each of them with his own username/password
[20:55] <alkisg> The second solution is the one you said, with 1 user per pc / per class (=100 accounts in total)
[20:56] <alkisg> In this case the teacher may select to logon the class A1 automatically from the UI...
[20:56] <alkisg> So the users wouldn't even need to know their usernames/passwords
[20:56] <LaserJock> so if we take solution 2
[20:57] <LaserJock> and the student moves to a different pc
[20:57] <alkisg> (and if sshfs was used instead of nfs, even ACLs/groupping wouldn't be neccessary)
[20:57] <LaserJock> you want them to get at their files from the original pc?
[20:57] <alkisg> The document mergingis still the same problem.. :(
[20:57] <alkisg> *merging
[20:58] <LaserJock> ok, well, so what if you had group-driven shares
[20:58] <LaserJock> ?
[20:58] <Lns> he doesn't want to take the time to make groups ;)
[20:58] <alkisg> Meaning?
[20:58] <LaserJock> so say each PC get's a group
[20:58] <LaserJock> you have 100 groups
[20:58] <alkisg> ...and 300 user accounts? or 100 user accounts?
[20:59] <LaserJock> either
[20:59] <LaserJock> well
[20:59] <LaserJock> either works
[20:59] <LaserJock> but when a student move then everybody in his group will have access to the "merged" share
[21:00] <LaserJock> you can't have 1 account/computer and then expect the computer to distinguish between who's looking at it :-)
[21:00] <LaserJock> but say you have a 1 shared folder / group
[21:01] <LaserJock> if student X moves from PC 1 to PC 2 you then put in in both group1 and group2
[21:01] <LaserJock> *put him in
[21:02] <alkisg> If they fight, I don't want to give him write access to PC1 documents :)
[21:02] <LaserJock> then drop him from PC2
[21:02] <alkisg> I think I'll settle with putting the documents of the moving user to /home/PC2/Documents/<moving-user-docs> and let him manually settle them over time... :-/
[21:03] <LaserJock> so you want him to have read-only access to PC1 documents?
[21:03]  * LaserJock is trying to figure out the actual problem
[21:04] <alkisg> I'm sitting on PC1. I write a document named "hi.doc". I argue with them, so I move to PC2. The student already sitting there also has a "hi.doc"
[21:04] <alkisg> I can't just "mv" the document, as it'll overwrite the other student's "hi.doc"
[21:04] <alkisg> So I'll have to make the moving user a copy and let him rename it to hi-george.doc or something...
[21:04] <alkisg> Bah it's a mess :(
[21:05] <LaserJock> well, 2 thoughts
[21:05] <Lns> sounds like there should be a much easier way
[21:05] <LaserJock> 1) just like file conflicts in a VCS, sometimes there is nothing a computer can do to solve the problem
[21:06] <LaserJock> 2) it's certainly possible to give him access to shares on both PC1 and PC2, I'm not sure about giving him access to PC2 and only read-access to PC1
[21:08] <LaserJock> unless you want to make all groups have read-only access and then only right permission to groups that the student is specifically a member of
[21:08] <Lns> alkisg: are you set on using an already established dir for shared stuff (eg. ~/Documents) ?
[21:08] <alkisg> LaserJock: No no some teachers don't want that, because some students copy the work of others
[21:09] <alkisg> Lns, I'm not even set on using a shared folder yet :(
[21:09] <Lns> haha
[21:10] <Lns> well
[21:10] <alkisg> E.g. rsync on logout may as well be an option... or just let *them* copy whatever files they need (=read access to group accounts)
[21:10] <LaserJock> hmm
[21:10] <Lns> what *I* would do personally is set up a shared dir hierarchy for each PC and groups for users that map permissions to those shares. To me that sounds the most flexible and easiest to deal with future "issues".
[21:11] <LaserJock> alkisg: you know, you could tell the student "hey, this is what happens when you fight, you get to start over again"
[21:11] <Lns> if a student has to move, they can copy the files to their own homedir and bring them to the new share.
[21:11] <alkisg> LaserJock: I've seriously considered this as the best solution!!! :D
[21:12] <LaserJock> what you could do is have a UI that would allow the teacher to temporarily set permissions
[21:13] <LaserJock> it would be easiest to do that on a per/session basis
[21:13] <LaserJock> but maybe something more temporary could be done
[21:14] <alkisg> LaserJock: if I used sshfs to mount the user homedirs instead of nfs, then the users would only see their own home folders. And it would be even possible for all their files on the server to be owned by the teacher, moving them around without worrying about permissions... :)
[21:14] <alkisg> (something like "virtual" home dirs, all under the teacher's documents...)
[21:15] <LaserJock> you can't do that with nfs?
[21:15] <alkisg> I don't think so
[21:15] <alkisg> sshfs provides for mapping to a specific uid/gid, I don't think nfs can do that...
[21:15] <alkisg> Plus the traffic would be encrypted = safer
[21:25] <jbicha> well, in the "fighting" scenario ... shouldn't the kids have to work together whether they like it or not?
[21:25] <jbicha> and if a kid can't play nice, then why does he need to take the group's work with him to the next group?
[21:30] <LaserJock> or for that matter, you could give him a USB stick to transfer his docs
[21:32] <Lns> alkisg: how would a student "merge" his previous group's work with the new group anyway?
[21:33] <alkisg> Lns: well, I guess he'd rename what files he wanted
[21:34] <alkisg> I.e. I could put his files to <newteam>/Documents/moved-user-files/*, and he could rename them and put them in the "correct" place, in <newteam>/Documents/*
[21:35] <Lns> yikes
[21:35] <alkisg> (and delete the ones he didn't want to keep, e.g. the ones the other students made)
[21:35] <alkisg> Yeah in the moving scenario it sounds better if each students has his own files, and no shared folder whatsoever :D
[21:36] <Lns> sounds to me like if a kid misbehaves he has the consequence of having to inherit the new group's work instead of feeling good about having contributed up until that point
[21:36] <Lns> but if it's being graded, that presents an issue too
[21:37] <alkisg> Yes, and also sometimes you don't really know who's to blame
[21:37] <alkisg> You just know that they need to be seperated
[21:37] <jbicha> if he has good ideas, he can share them with the next group, he's just as likely to share the work of the other students in the previous group anyway
[21:38] <Lns> this is a real interesting scenario
[21:41] <alkisg> If I could see which files they created or modified *today* I could only copy those files to each of the group members
[21:43] <alkisg> ...but I don't think that would work correctly in all cases (e.g. teacher copying some exercises in their home folders or downloading some old files from the internet etc)
[21:43] <LaserJock> what you need is to put all of their files in bzr or git
[21:44]  * alkisg imagines "bzr branch the-movie-I-downloaded-from-youtube" :P :D
[21:44] <Lns> lol
[21:47] <alkisg> I think the best way would be to show the 2 other students a synchronization dialog on logout, i.e. "I automatically synched whatever files I could, but there are conflicts on the following files, please specify what to do:"
[21:48] <alkisg> ...so they could check the files they needed to overwrite... or if they didn't care, they could just close this dialog
[21:49] <Lns> sounds like it'd be real confusing to the students
[22:35] <lfaraone> I'm experiencing really shoddy performance when using iTalc (installed on the server) via LTSP. The management console freezes often, and control of the student desktops is amazingly slow. Am I doing something wrong, or is there some way to speed this  up?
[22:39] <cprofitt> lfaraone, have you ensured the issue is not network related?
[22:40] <lfaraone> cprofitt: Yes, this is with two clients on a 100mbps switch. Other apps work fine, as does VNC.
[22:41] <cprofitt> hmm...
[22:51] <lfaraone> cprofitt: see bug 418150, apparently I'm not the only one
[22:52] <cprofitt> looking now
[22:53] <cprofitt> hmm... they are saying it is graphics driver releated
[22:53] <cprofitt> I will have to play with that...
[22:53] <cprofitt> I have not noticed issues wit iTalc like that
[22:55] <lfaraone> Well, I don't remember what graphics cards we are using at the lab, but I think it's not Intel at least.
[22:58] <lfaraone> I'm wondering if the older iTalc interface would have the same issues... when I tried compiling it from source, however, there were a bunch of errors; not something I'm inclined to shift through.