[11:39] <mdke> morning all
[15:55] <j1mc> hello doc-people
[15:55] <mdke> hiya j1mc
[15:55] <j1mc> hi mdke
[16:00] <j1mc> mdke: had you heard anything about the doc utility put together by canonical?  that came as a surprise to me.
[16:00] <mdke> j1mc: you mean kyle's project?
[16:00] <j1mc> in looking at the wiki and launchpad history, it seems like something that has come together recently.
[16:01] <j1mc> yes
[16:01] <mdke> not much, only what he has posted to the list
[16:01] <j1mc> right
[16:03] <mdke> i really think that he needs to work closely to shaunm, because it overlaps very heavily with gnome-doc-utils from what I can see in terms of features
[16:04] <Rocket2DMn> hey guys, just FYI the community docs are inaccessible
[16:04] <Rocket2DMn> you may have already known that
[16:05] <mdke> hmm?
[16:05] <Rocket2DMn> ERROR - The requested URL could not be retrieved
[16:05] <mdke> ouch
[16:05] <Rocket2DMn> are you able to access?
[16:05] <mdke> nope, I'll report
[16:05] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: no
[16:06] <Rocket2DMn> ok, so we're not (completely) crazy
[16:06] <Rocket2DMn> thanks mdke
[16:06] <Rocket2DMn> ah, so the community doc server (or its proxy) is called yangmei
[16:06] <j1mc> thanks to you, too, connor
[16:07] <mdke> looks like a proxy issue yeah
[16:07] <Rocket2DMn> the forums have had problems in the past with their proxy
[16:07] <Rocket2DMn> not recently though
[16:07] <Rocket2DMn> j1mc, i didnt pick up on it, my buddy cprofitt did
[16:08] <Rocket2DMn> i'm just the messenger today
[16:08] <j1mc> :)
[16:08] <Rocket2DMn> BTW, we're gonna get a community doc page on Grub2 real soon, drs305 is finishing it up in the next couple of days i believe
[16:09] <j1mc> mdke & Rocket2DMn ... it seems like the new documentation utility is docbook-focused... it seems like the mallard stuff is still up in the air.
[16:09] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: that is great
[16:09] <j1mc> finding documentation on grub2 is a little difficult
[16:09] <Rocket2DMn> yeah j1mc , there is a page on w.u.c but it is geared toward testers
[16:09] <mdke> j1mc: I think it is in very early stages as yet. But gnome-doc-utils is a lot more developed, I think it would make sense for him to base the project off that
[16:09] <Rocket2DMn> drs305 has some very nice forum tutorials on grub2, so i asked him to write the community doc page and he accepted
[16:10] <mdke> shaunm: if you happen to come upon this discussion, we're discussing https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-October/013845.html
[16:10] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: that's great
[16:10] <Rocket2DMn> yeah j1mc , i think so too.  Some Beginners Team members have some very good knowledge about different subjects and can therefore write good documentation on them
[16:11] <Rocket2DMn> bodhi.zazen is great with security and virtualization topics, so I've had him help with firewall documentation, and soon to rework KVM pages and a few others
[16:11] <j1mc> mdke: yeah, i think having him collaborate on gnome doc-utils may prove to be most beneficial
[16:12] <j1mc> i'm not clear on whether what he's put together is a set of command-line utilities, or if it is something different
[16:13] <mdke> j1mc: worth collaring him at UDS and finding out :)
[16:15] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, it appears that the docs are back up again
[16:25] <mdke> cool
[16:28] <Gwaihir> j1mc: I was looking at Kyle branch, looks like he has created a doc template for programs, a directories structure that you can put inside your project, edit a couple of Makefiles and you are done setting up the documentation part
[16:28] <Gwaihir> oh... obviously you still have to write the documentation though :)
[16:29] <j1mc> Gwaihir: interesting
[16:38] <shaunm> mdke: yeah, I'd definitely like to see at least some of that effort put into g-d-u
[16:38] <shaunm> we have old docbook templates in the gnome-docu module
[16:38] <shaunm> but I think they do more harm than good, because they encourage you to write without planning
[16:39]  * mdke nods
[16:40] <mdke> shaunm: I'll post something to encourage Kyle to look at g-d-u too
[16:40] <shaunm> not saying we can't identify common document patterns and do some sort of templating for them
[16:42] <shaunm> it's actually something I've been wanting to do for mallard documents.  provide templates for common page types, with comments containing instructions on how you *probably* should organize information for that page
[16:42] <shaunm> but planning and organizing a document is a different beast than deciding how to put words to paper on a single page
[16:43] <mdke> yes, I agree
[16:43] <shaunm> (obviously, I can't really speak to the sorts of integration features you might want in LP)
[16:44] <mdke> I don't think that should matter
[16:44] <mdke> Launchpad does its own integration really, at least as far as translations are concerned
[17:43] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, what do you think we should do with bug 442417, there hasn't been any further feedback from the desktop team
[17:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 442417 in ubuntu-docs ""Text Editor" changed to "gedit Text Editor" in Applications->Accessories" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/442417
[17:54] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I chatted to seb about it and he said he would get back to me as a few people had complained about the menu entry, but he hasn't... leave it open for now
[17:55] <mdke> afk for a bit
[17:55] <Rocket2DMn> ok
[19:39] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: hi what's up
[19:40] <Rocket2DMn> hi dhillon-v10 , just watching some football
 do you have some time to look over my document that I was working on
[19:41] <Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, what document is that?
[19:41] <dhillon-v10>  http://docs.google.com/View?id=dctjtzjg_113nnb93qf6
 I worked hard on this one
[19:42] <dhillon-v10> :)
[19:43] <Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, where is this document supposed to go?
 system docs. its the user guide for gnome-display apperance
[19:44] <Rocket2DMn> I don't believe the system docs have screenshots in them
 :( really now I'll have to remove that
[19:45] <Rocket2DMn> ok, welli can see some stuff already that isn't quite right
[19:45] <Rocket2DMn> for example, in Chapter 2, you said "System -> Administration -> Restricted Drivers Manager "
[19:45] <Rocket2DMn> it should be Hardware Drivers right?
[19:46] <dhillon-v10> yes
[19:46] <dhillon-v10> sorry about that
[19:46] <dhillon-v10> its fixed
[19:46] <Rocket2DMn> also, the gnome-display-properties doesn't work for nvidia restricted drivers, you need to use their utility
[19:47] <dhillon-v10> but they are downloaded through the same utility
[19:47] <Rocket2DMn> they are downloaded through Hardware Dribers
[19:48] <Rocket2DMn> but if you try to open gnome-display-properties, it will say that the graphics driver does not support the necessary extensions to use the tool
[19:48] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn> yah that's what I wrote in the document right...
[19:48] <Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, in your topics list at the top, you don't need phrases like "Talk about"
 I am going to remove all that its just for review
[19:49] <Rocket2DMn> ok
[19:49] <dhillon-v10> :) so what do you think
[19:50] <Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, at the beginning, try to avoid using "I" or "me"
[19:50] <Rocket2DMn> "I’m going to assume"
[19:50] <Rocket2DMn> also, a VGA port on the back of the computer is not the only place to plug in monitors
[19:50] <Rocket2DMn> there are also DVI ports, or HDMI, both of which can be used to plug in monitors or TVs
 alright, Phil told me about not using I its for review, I will fix the VGA ports part
[19:51] <dhillon-v10> I'll make it third person
[19:51] <Rocket2DMn> do you know if X needs to be restarted for a second monitor to be detected, or will it hotplug?
 It will have to be restarted so X can change the configuration
 hotplug might work but restarting X is a safer way
[19:53] <Rocket2DMn> Then you should mention that in chapter 1
[19:53] <Rocket2DMn> i'm not really sure about it though, like you should be able to plug in to projectors and whatnot without having tpo restart X
[19:54] <dhillon-v10>  <Rocket2DMn> yes that's true but do you think I should mention that restarting X is a safer way so it should be followed or just mention hotplugging
[19:55] <Rocket2DMn> I'm not sure, you may just say that X may need to be restarted if the second moinitor isn't detected when you hotplug and try to enable it within X
 ah, effective use of language :)
[19:58] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn> wait a sec. if you go by using the GUI to add a new monitor it will prompt you to log out for changes to take effect so what do you think about that
[19:59] <Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, that's fine, as long as it's documented
 alright, so now I'll have to remove all the screenshots and write parts of the doc. over again right
[20:00] <Rocket2DMn> i dont think there is a lot of rewriting to do
 yay! I actually did something useful for the community
[20:00] <Rocket2DMn> :)
 so what happens after I fix those errors, email the doc to you
[20:02] <Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, it is better if you find out where exactly in the docs it should go, then open a bug report and attach the text
[20:02] <Rocket2DMn> you can also email the list
 it was on the To-Do list so I started working on it now I have to format the doc. with docbook code and then I'll email the list
[20:03] <Rocket2DMn> im not sure what documentaiton may already exist for the stuff you wrote iup
 the To-Do list said none existed for that
[20:04] <Rocket2DMn> ok, im just saying that idk, I havent looked
 can you update the wiki here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks on the gnome-display task so no one else starts working on the same document
[20:06] <Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, you can update the page yourself
[20:06] <Rocket2DMn> it's a public wiki
 cool, I didn't know I could do that because that page is important
 one quick question are there any online services that convert txt to docbook format
[20:09] <Rocket2DMn> not that i know of, you can't convert plain text to docbook since it cant determine what things should have tags
[20:09] <Rocket2DMn> although, it may be able to pickup some stuff, there may be a html-to-docbook xslt somewhere
 alright I will find something, thank you very much for helping me here
[20:10] <Rocket2DMn> sure thing
 In 3 years from now I'll catch up to you :P
[20:13] <Rocket2DMn> lol, it doesnt take that long.  you just gotta give the illusion that you know what you're doing ;)
[20:14] <dhillon-v10> alright bye
[21:12] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: does gufw have a manual now? or did you remove it from the Tasks wiki page on the basis that there is something included in the keeping-safe document?
[21:15] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, on the basis that it is outlined int he keeping-safe document
[21:16] <Rocket2DMn> if that's not adequate we can add it back to the list
[21:16] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: ok. It still doesn't have a manual though, it think it needs onboard documentation that goes into more detail
[21:16] <mdke> s/it/I
[21:16] <mdke> and a help button
[21:17] <Rocket2DMn> oic, is the Help menu in Gufw supposed to take you to something in ubuntu-docs ?
[21:17] <mdke> no, not necessarily
[21:18] <mdke> normally it should point at a manual for the application
[21:18] <mdke> sometimes that could be a part of ubuntu-docs, but it doesn't have to be
[21:18] <Rocket2DMn> ok, we can add it back to the list, my bad
[21:19] <mdke> ok, I'll do it
[21:19] <Rocket2DMn> thanks, sorry about that
[21:20] <mdke> np at all