pleia2ok, we're getting ready for an ubuntu community learning project meeting00:00
bodhi_zazenwho is here for the meeting ?00:01
* pleia2 00:02
MootBotMeeting started at 18:02. The chair is cprofitt.00:02
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]00:02
cprofittHello all and welcome to the UCLP meeting00:02
cprofittplease just say here if you are present for the meeting00:02
pleia2thanks for chairing, cprofitt :)00:02
bodhi_zazenhere =)00:02
cprofittI would like permission to open an agenda item not on the list.00:04
cprofitt[TOPIC] Civility00:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Civility00:04
cprofittI would like  to express a feeling that I think we all share...00:04
cprofittthat there is a need to be civil during meetings and discussions (formal and informal)00:05
bodhi_zazen+1 cprofitt00:06
pleia2being mindful of the CoC would help, and keeping in mind that we're all on the same team here00:06
cprofittwe each have our own passions involved in this project, but a person's passions should not control a project. We all need to do a better job of seeing the project from a holistic view and take the time to pause when considering the view points of others00:06
bodhi_zazenI think a lack of civil discourse is detrimental to this project00:06
swoodya big +1 on this...00:07
cprofittI hope that we all reflect on potentially 'inflammatory' language and using it to make a point.00:07
swoodyfrom my UCLP peon perspective, there is a lot of great talent and leadership in this project. I think being able to overcome your personal biases and opinions for the team this could be an amazing team :)00:08
cprofittwe really need to curb that... this is not a 'debate' club meeting, but a team trying to produce something to assist the community.00:08
cprofittWe all have one goal that is the same -- educate users and potential users00:08
bodhi_zazenI also think we need to re-focus our efforts and I think we should at least touch base on the fact that we are using Moodle to "repackage" or present material in ways condusive to learning, and not a documentation project00:08
bodhi_zazendocumentation == wiki00:09
cprofittcan we wait on that bodhi_zazen00:09
cprofittlets stick with the civility first.00:09
bodhi_zazenyep, but I am throwing it out as it seems related , it the root cause of problems00:09
cprofitt[VOTE] We all need to be more aware of the words we use in expressing our opinions and take time to understand the points of view different from our own00:10
MootBotPlease vote on:  We all need to be more aware of the words we use in expressing our opinions and take time to understand the points of view different from our own.00:10
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot00:10
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting00:10
MootBot+1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 100:10
MootBot+1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 200:10
MootBot+1 received from swoody. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 300:10
MootBot+1 received from bodhi_zazen. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 400:10
cprofittany last votes?00:11
cprofittlast call for votes00:11
MootBotFinal result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 400:11
cprofitt[AGREED] The group agreed to make a conscious effort to be more civil00:11
MootBotAGREED received:  The group agreed to make a conscious effort to be more civil00:11
cprofittthank you.00:11
cprofitt[TOPIC] Course Organization00:11
MootBotNew Topic:  Course Organization00:11
cprofittWe discussed quite a bit of this on the list...00:12
cprofittand I wish to reflect my understanding...00:12
cprofittWe are trying to make courses that will be A)  On-line via Moodle and/or IRC B) Course materials that can be used with in-person training00:12
cprofittWe will not force a course 'creator/author' to make content in all of those formats00:13
cprofittthe choice will be up to the course author00:13
cprofittthe team may try to convert material from one format to the other00:13
cprofitt... is that accurate?00:13
cprofittgo ahead bodhi_zazen00:14
bodhi_zazenIMO our final product should be generic / versatile enough to be used in almost any content00:14
pleia2right, but the official course format is asciidoc, and if someone joins the team who just wants to write material (for any format) we will point them to doctormo's upcoming docs on how00:14
bodhi_zazenone should be able to use our "template" or outline in a classroom, IRC, independent study, should not really matter00:14
cprofittpleia2, I missed several meetings... was the asciidoc format voted on?00:15
pleia2yeah, what bodhi_zazen said00:15
pleia2cprofitt: yes00:15
Vantraxim 90% afk sorry guys, very busy at work getting some things ready for deadline00:15
pleia2bios_element reviewed a number of formats and showed them all to us00:15
pleia2cprofitt: might want to check the mail archives for his full text email of his analysis00:15
cprofittpleia2, have we posted that on our wiki page?00:16
pleia2ah, here we go: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-learning/2009-September/000050.html00:16
cprofittwe need to make sure that people have that information if they are considering assisting us.00:16
cprofittthanks for the link to the comparison...00:16
pleia2cprofitt: doesn't look like it, we're waiting on finalization of doctormo's instructions before we have people diving in00:17
pleia2we need standards for this, doctormo and bioselement have been writing them :)00:17
pleia2(it's all in bzr)00:17
cprofittI agree... but it might help us if it is mentioned as a standard... on our site even if we do not have a complete set of instructions00:17
pleia2cprofitt: we're trying00:18
cprofittI think with that being officially adopted we should strive to have our first course actually be one that shows how to use asciidocs00:18
cprofittinside our framework00:18
doctormoThat was something BiosElement was working on.00:18
pleia2that's what doctormo and bioselement are writing...00:18
cprofittpleia2, I would put a basic statement about it on the main page -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning00:18
cprofittunder the Course creation section00:18
cprofittnot a complete instruction set, but just a note that asciidocs will be used00:19
cprofittWe obviously will need the asciidoc course developed in Moodle and in-person format... would IRC be appropriate as well?00:19
pleia2yes, as I explained in my email the core material is in asciidoc, and then adapted for all three formats00:20
cprofittok.... cool...00:20
cprofittsorry I did not recall that detail in your email.00:20
cprofittdoctormo, do you have an eta or target date for that course?00:20
pleia2cprofitt: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-learning/2009-October/000067.html00:20
pleia2sent it out 6 days ago00:21
cprofittI remember the email, in general, but not the specific part about an asciidoc how-to course00:21
pleia2oh ok :)00:21
cprofittI have been working on the Moodle examples... to assist us with that...00:22
cprofittwhich I know you put in one of your emails.00:22
doctormocprofitt: There is a few steps, one involves getting the bzr/lp checkout, one involves editing text files and the final one is commiting branches.00:22
cprofittsounds good doctormo - I am just curious if you have a target date for the release of the course that will teach people how to produce courses for us00:23
cprofittthat will be an important step forward in having others contribute00:23
doctormocprofitt: I'd targeted last month, but we just didn't reach it.00:23
cprofittTrying for November then?00:23
doctormoTrying for January.00:24
cprofitt[ACTION] Doctormo is targeting January for finishing the course on how to contribute to UCLP00:24
MootBotACTION received:  Doctormo is targeting January for finishing the course on how to contribute to UCLP00:24
* cprofitt nods00:24
bodhi_zazenJanuary :p (I understand, just couild not resist the emoticon)00:24
doctormoHopefully it'll be done before then.00:24
pleia2in the meantime I've still been writing in odt00:24
cprofittone other thing that I raised in my email.00:24
cprofittI would like use to organize content in to sections00:25
pleia2I'll convert to asciidoc eventually, but we want to get rolling even if the official dev docs aren't done00:25
cprofittso that we will not have material duplicated00:25
* pleia2 nods00:25
cprofittif there is a 'using ubuntu' strand that involved using nano and a 'maintaining' ubuntu strand that uses nano00:26
doctormoI've seen the sections that you want to create cprofitt, I'm not in agreement to the precise layout.00:26
cprofittthen content on nano would be in its own course00:26
bodhi_zazenand have people identify what section(s) they are working on00:26
cprofittand in both strands00:26
doctormoBut I think we've been over some of it00:26
cprofittthat is the general concept.00:26
bodhi_zazenIf many people are working on sections, we need a way they can collaborate00:26
pleia2bodhi_zazen: that's already begun, it's being done on the wiki00:26
doctormoThe organisational collaberation anyway00:27
cprofittare you referring to this page pleia2 - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics00:27
pleia2cprofitt: yes, all 5 of the pages have owners00:27
cprofittlet me take some examples from there then00:27
pleia2then the sections are split off into "I'm working on this now" - so people can take ownership of them and let others know they're being worked on00:27
pleia2I am not sure we have to decide upon specifics of the courses at this meeting though00:27
* Vantrax likes where this is heading00:28
cprofittSynaptic Package Manager, Aptitude and Apt, What are repositories, and how do they work, Partitioning and Fstab, Linux file permissions, Sudo and Root, Linux file system hierarchy00:28
cprofittthose topics likely cross over to both the administering and the using areas00:28
bodhi_zazenI would put them in admin and not general use00:29
cprofittI do not think we have to organize specifics, but I want to ensure we are understanding one another00:29
cprofittbut our 'use' has been labeled by the graphic as 'desktop'00:29
bodhi_zazenI think of using more of OOO, firefox, etc00:29
cprofittand administering 'server'00:29
pleia2I think these topic labels are fluid, and I agree with bodhi_zazen00:30
* cprofitt pauses00:30
cprofittI am not sure I am communicating this well00:30
cprofittI apologize00:30
cprofittI think there is the potential for course overlap and wish to avoid that if possible00:30
cprofittwe have people in charge of the areas... but I think we need to have a process to look at those areas and not let them become silos00:31
pleia2the easiest way is putting topics on both pages, marking that they are responsible on both00:31
cprofittthat have over lapped content00:31
pleia2not the most elegant, but probably what we have to do00:31
* cprofitt nods00:31
doctormoWhat was the thoughts on considering use to be the execution of goals that produce results outside of the computer's own self maintaientance.00:31
cprofittpleia2, I think you and I are on the same page.00:32
doctormoPeople don't use vi or nano to edit their normal documents.00:32
cprofittI am not concerned with the specifics, just the fact that we want to avoid duplication00:32
bodhi_zazenI do doctormo =)00:32
VantraxI think there will be overlap, but there are different levels of detail in use in regard to applications00:32
doctormobodhi_zazen: special case00:32
cprofittVantrax - I agree.00:32
bodhi_zazenI understand ;P00:33
Vantraxone should be an introduction to command line text editing (nano)00:33
cprofittThe key is to not produced 'base' levels inside several courses00:33
Vantraxone should be advanced command line text editing (vi)00:33
swoody+1 cprofitt00:33
pleia2cprofitt: +100:33
cprofittbut to remove the 'base' level and make it its own course00:33
bodhi_zazenI for one suggest we do not separate out command line from graphical00:33
doctormoOverlap may not be too much of a problem, I don't think the project is big enough yet for it to be a problem and so long as organisation is being carried out on those few pages in the same form, it would be easy enough to check.00:33
Vantraxbut there will be some overlap00:33
bodhi_zazenIMO command line tools should be included where appropriate00:33
* cprofitt coughs00:33
swoodyI think a general 'base' knowledge course, and then if needed, further info into a specific area if it's required for those needs00:34
cprofittwe are getting in to the specifics00:34
bodhi_zazensome content there will be more , others less =)00:34
pleia2doctormo: yeah, for now it's not too huge of an administrative challenge, but I think we want to make sure we're aware that it'll come up and to check for it :)00:34
Vantraxgood point:P00:34
cprofittI would prefer not to discuss the specifics... nor the probability of overlap...00:34
VantraxLong as we are aware of the issue, and have a way to differentiate the different courses it will be fine00:34
cprofittjust to acknowledge that if it happens we will try to mitigate it00:34
bodhi_zazen+1 cprofitt00:34
pleia2if I start writing "now you aptitude install" in a Desktop course I'll be sure to cross-reference with Server course to make sure I'm not rewriting "basic aptitude" instructions00:34
doctormocprofitt: The probability and the cost of administrating the overlap seem fairly pertinant.00:34
bodhi_zazenI also like the wiki syntax "using any editor"00:35
bodhi_zazenrather then specifying nano vs kate vs gvim00:35
cprofittwe will table the discussion to the mail list then doctormo00:35
cprofittI motion we close this topic and move it to the mailing list00:35
swoody+1 bodhi_zazen , if how to use an editor has been covered by a previous 'base' topic00:35
pleia2cprofitt: +100:35
* cprofitt topic closed00:35
doctormo+0 I have no strong feelings about moving it anywhere, this place was as good as anywhere.00:36
bodhi_zazenswoody: that *should* be a linky to the wiki00:36
cprofittdoes anyone else have any topics that were not put on the agenda?00:36
pleia2I'm going to blog about the project sometime this week00:36
pleia2mostly based on my email, try to remind people that we exist and all00:36
doctormopleia2: Want me to blog at the same time?00:36
pleia2and I'm doing an Ubuntu Open Week presentation on it, so I'll share the draft of that with everyone soon in case you guys have things to add00:37
* cprofitt nods00:37
cprofitt+1 pleia200:37
cprofittanyone else?00:37
pleia2doctormo: sure, maybe you discuss how the base documentation format (bzr, asciidoc) for the project is coming along, and how to contribute in the meantime?00:37
pleia2my blog post will be some overlap in that regard, but you're the expert in our base format :)00:38
doctormopleia2: Expert you say :-)00:38
doctormopleia2: OK I'll document it, perhaps it'll give me something to go to BiosElement with.00:38
pleia2well, you and bioselement are better than the rest of us ;)00:38
* pleia2 nods00:39
doctormocprofitt, meeting over?00:39
cprofittunless there are other topics...00:39
cprofittdo you wish to motion to adjourn doctormo00:39
pleia2I'm done00:39
cprofittI motion that we close the meeting00:40
cprofittany seconds?00:40
cprofittany objections?00:40
* swoody seconds00:40
MootBotMeeting finished at 18:40.00:40
pleia2thanks everyone00:40
cprofittthank you all for coming.00:40
* doctormo goes back to disney's aladin00:41
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Technovikingmorning all12:01
pleia2good morning12:01
sabdflhello all12:01
dholbachgood morning12:01
dholbachTechnoviking: nice, you made it12:01
dholbachhey sabdfl, hi pleia212:01
dholbachI'd say that's quorum already - who else do we have here?12:01
sabdflTechnoviking: morning :-)12:02
dholbachI have a bad internet connection here, can anybody else lead the meeting?12:02
dholbachAFAICS we have two agenda items on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda (no mdke here for the wiki licensing and U1 shouldn't really be on the agenda anymore)12:03
dholbachhey popey12:03
pleia2hey popey12:03
dholbachany volunteers for running the meeting? :)12:04
sabdfli'm happy to do so12:04
sabdflwelcome, new CC12:04
popeyAhoi hoi!12:04
sabdflcan we remove the one.ubuntu.com item?12:04
sabdflit was for information purposes, and everyone is now aware of it12:05
* dholbach removes is12:05
sabdflok. we're skipping the team wiki issue till mdke joins us12:05
sabdflCoC - any thoughts before we move to a vote?12:05
sabdfldaniel, can you drive the vote please?12:06
sabdflmy mootbotfu is not up to it12:06
MootBotMeeting started at 06:06. The chair is dholbach.12:06
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]12:06
dholbach[TOPIC] Proposed CoC changes12:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Proposed CoC changes12:07
dholbachis http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mako/ubuntu-codeofconduct/proposed-revision/files the right link?12:07
popeyare we merely voting on its acceptance as the new CoC or its implementation?12:07
sabdfljust voting on the text12:08
sabdfldholbach: technically we should point to a particular revision on the branch12:08
dholbachI don't think it's the right branch12:08
Technovikingdholbach: that point to revision 8, sabdfl made a 9th revision12:08
dholbachmy internet is just so slow here12:08
dholbachso it takes me ages to find it12:08
MootBotLINK received:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/proposed-revision/files/912:09
pleia2I think was the last12:09
MootBotLINK received:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mako/ubuntu-codeofconduct/proposed-revision/annotate/head%3A/CodeOfConduct.txt12:09
dholbachcan everybody double-check?12:09
sabdflit was rev 9 on *my* branch, but mako merged it in as rev 8 on his12:09
sabdflit's accurate as it stands12:09
MootBotLINK received:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/proposed-revision/annotate/8/CodeOfConduct.txt12:09
dholbachsabdfl: so no diff between the two?12:10
MootBotLINK received:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mako/ubuntu-codeofconduct/proposed-revision/annotate/8/CodeOfConduct.txt12:10
popeythat one?12:10
sabdfldholbach: nothing material - the mako link is the correct one12:10
dholbachok great12:10
sabdfllet's move to vote12:10
dholbach[VOTE] Do we approve http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mako/ubuntu-codeofconduct/proposed-revision/annotate/head%3A/CodeOfConduct.txt as the new Code of Conduct?12:11
MootBotPlease vote on:  Do we approve http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mako/ubuntu-codeofconduct/proposed-revision/annotate/head%3A/CodeOfConduct.txt as the new Code of Conduct?.12:11
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot12:11
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting12:11
sabdflwell, no, that's the tip URL12:11
sabdflbut lets vote anyway12:11
MootBot+1 received from sabdfl. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 112:11
MootBot+1 received from Technoviking. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 212:11
MootBot+1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 312:11
MootBot+1 received from popey. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 412:11
MootBot+1 received from dholbach. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 512:11
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 512:11
dholbachwoohoo! :)12:11
sabdflthanks all, we have an updated CoC12:11
dholbachI'm happy we finally did that :)12:12
sabdflpopey: want to talk implementation?12:12
dholbachhey mako12:12
=== simon-o|lunch is now known as simon-o
makosorry i'm a little late12:12
sabdflmako, we just voted on and approved the new CoC per your rev 812:13
popeyI'd like to see a system whereby it's clear which verion of the CoC someone signed12:13
makooh, wonderful12:13
popeyand allow people to 'upgrade' their signature12:13
dholbachis there a launchpad bug/blueprint open for that?12:13
makoneedless to say (and for the record), i am also in favor12:13
popeyor elect not to12:13
sabdfli believe this is tracked in LP already, but we don't have flows around upgrading or displaying it12:13
sabdflpopey: can you chat with curtis hovey about that?12:14
sabdflhe's in US timezones12:14
sabdfli think the real plan is to generalise it, so any project can publish agreements / terms / sla's and we track who's agreed to what12:14
popeythat would be useful12:14
dholbachthat sounds great12:15
dholbachanything else on the topic of CoC?12:15
sabdflsounds like a swamp of legalese to me, but hey, full speed ahead :-)12:15
sabdfldholbach: will you publish it in all the right places?12:15
makothat seems like a minor issue. and in general, we want to avoid having to deal with arguments like, "well, i only agreed to version 1.0 of the CoC, not 1.1"12:15
popeybut we equally don't want people to say 'Hey, I never signed up for that!'12:16
makothat's certainly not a reason to not check12:16
popeyGPL v2 or later ..12:16
sabdfli would like to have a stab at generalising the CoC, so that other projects don't have to fork it12:16
Technovikingsomeone should publishize it to the Planet12:16
dholbachsabdfl: I'll talk to newz2000 to get it on ubuntu.com - not sure wherelse it needs to go12:16
dholbachsabdfl: but I'll have a look12:16
sabdflso, that can be a goal for a CoC 2.012:16
sabdflTechnoviking: go ahead and blog it!12:16
pleia2Technoviking: I can12:16
pleia2or you :)12:16
sabdflfor the moment, i think we're wrapped on that front12:17
popeyheh fill the front page with verbatim copies of the CoC :)12:17
pleia2dholbach: can you let me know when you have it "published in all the right places"?12:17
popey(front page of the planet)12:17
makosabdfl: ah! emma jane and i already have a branch where we started working on that12:17
sabdfldholbach: want to introduce CommunityCouncil/Delegation/Proposal ?12:17
dholbachpleia2: will do - I'll file a bug and subscribe you12:17
pleia2dholbach: great, thanks!12:17
dholbach[TOPIC] Clarify expectations of Team Councils and Boards12:17
MootBotNew Topic:  Clarify expectations of Team Councils and Boards12:17
dholbachsabdfl: sure12:17
sabdflcool mako! i didn't have any great insight other than the need to generalise so if you're working on it i'm +1 and won't interfere12:18
dholbachwe've grown a lot of team councils and boards in the Ubuntu community already and it seems like a good idea to clarify expectations for those governance bodies12:18
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation/Proposal is very common, very simple steps to try to go forward and expect similar things of all of them12:19
dholbachif we can agree on it, I'd like to add merge https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation/Proposal  into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation12:19
sabdfli think it could be fleshed out a bit more12:20
sabdflnot sure if it's best for me to do that right now, or later12:20
dholbachsabdfl: what parts are you thinking of?12:20
sabdflbut i'd like to see more specific articulation of the general model:12:20
sabdfl - governance boards (policy, dispute resolution)12:21
sabdfl - ops (moderators in forums, ops in irc, general uploaders in the dev team, etc)12:21
makodholbach: so i've seen this before and there's nothing in there that i find problematic12:21
sabdfl - members (substantial contributors)12:21
sabdflthat's a structural pattern that isn't clear to me from this doc12:22
* mako nods to sabdfl12:22
sabdflit's not rigid, but i would like to see the pattern articulated somewhere12:22
=== porthose|afk is now known as porthose
sabdfldholbach: will you lead the discussion while i have a stab at that in the document?12:22
sabdflapologies for real-time editing :-/12:22
dholbachsure, that all sounds good to me12:22
jonoI am happy to help with this too if needed, dholbach12:23
dholbachpleia2, Technoviking, popey: do you have any other comments on the proposal?12:23
pleia2no, looks good12:23
Technovikingfine here12:23
dholbachI agree with sabdfl - having team councils approve members is a great way to build a community and recognise great contributions12:25
dholbachand mentioning dispute resolution makes sense too12:25
dholbachI think we have a document about that on the wiki already12:25
dholbachsomething in the BuildingCommunity/ namespace?12:25
dholbachcan somebody help me find it? maybe we could link to it as a "howto"12:26
jonoabout councils approving members?12:26
dholbachno, sorry, dispute resolution12:26
jonooh right12:26
dholbachfor membership wiki.u.c/Membership should be good enough12:26
jonoI remember writing something up about it a long time back12:26
jonoI will see if I can find it12:26
pleia2https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeOfConductGuidelines links to an unratified Dispute Resolution document12:27
dholbachmy internet is dog-slow here, so don't wait on me finding it :)12:27
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/DealingWithConflict is what I was thinking of12:28
makoyeah, the second links looks a bit more threshed out12:29
jonodholbach, thats the doc I was thinking of too12:29
dholbachjono: I updated it a few weeks ago and linked it from a few other places too12:29
jonoI could also take my conflict chapter from The art of community and put there there too12:29
dholbachsure, that'd be good12:29
dholbachso https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/DealingWithConflict looks good to all of you?12:30
popeyyeah, I'd not seen that page before.. it's pretty good12:31
dholbachcool, it'd be good if we could refer to a "howto" from the delegation page12:31
popeycould do with a couple of exit points for where the process fails12:31
popeye.g. 'get everyone on irc', if people refuse to join, or evade meetings.. what to do next12:32
dholbachmaybe Jono's book chapter has more detail? :)12:32
jonodholbach, it does12:33
jonoit talkes through a conflict resolution scenario too12:33
dholbachI'm not so sure what sabdfl meant when he mentioned "policy" - so I'd wait for him to re-emerge from the wiki editing12:33
jonoI will see if I can chop out the chapter and put it online12:33
dholbachthanks jono12:33
dholbachdoes anybody have thoughts about the structure of moderators in forums, ops in irc, general uploaders in the dev team, etc12:34
jonowhat do you mean?12:35
dholbachsabdfl:  mentioned it above12:35
dholbachsabdfl mentioned it above12:35
makoi mean, i don't have any general comments beyond the fact that they should be people who can/do satisify the requirements laid out in the LCoC12:35
pleia2I'd need to hear more from the specific teams about what they think the structure should be12:35
jussi01Thats a pretty broad group there.12:36
sabdfltake a look at what's there now, folks, is it headed in the right direction?12:36
jonosabdfl, looks good to me12:37
jonoI feel like we also need to link to a page detailing meeting best practise12:38
jonohow to run a meeting, essentially12:38
jonowe can check into this12:38
sabdflok, i will finish this edit in a while if you are all happy with the direction12:39
pleia2these changes look good so far12:39
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamIrcSessions probably12:39
Technovikinglooks good to me12:39
dholbachsabdfl: I'm happy with it too12:39
sabdfli will include those links, dholbach12:39
jonosounds good12:40
makobest practice stuff is great. councils should have as many of those sorts of resources12:40
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/KnowledgeBase has a lot of good stuff :)12:40
jonoindeed :)12:40
makobut we should be clear to distinguish best practices from policies and guidelines. our guidlines should be as small as possible and as reactive as we can12:40
dholbachmaybe we should also mention the team-council mailing list or whatever it's called?12:40
dholbachmako: agreed, that should be clear12:41
sabdfli think it's already there, i'll bolster it a little12:41
jussi01Just one thing slightly related to that delegation page, (if its inappropriate for now pull me up) is there a reason we only get people to sign the CoC and not sign the LCoC?12:41
jonodholbach, it is in there12:41
dholbachjono: ok cool12:42
jonoI am planning a few posts there this week12:42
dholbachjussi01: I'm happy to take somebody's "word of honour" for it as soon as they step up as a leader12:42
dholbachI personally don't think we need a technical implementation for it12:42
pleia2at the end of the the CoC there is a clause about leaders being required to follow the LCoC12:42
dholbachah cool :)12:42
jussi01oh, I didnt notice that. :)12:43
dholbach #include <lcoc>    :-)12:43
dholbachmaybe a word about sharing best-practices on https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/team-council-members ?12:43
dholbachbut maybe that's too obvious :)12:43
jonodholbach, indeed12:44
* popey wasnt aware of that list12:44
jonoI would like to encourage people to use that list as a means of sharing best practice as well as asking for help with governance issues12:44
jonopopey, this reminds me, we need to ensure the new CC is on12:44
pleia2popey: I wasn't either :)12:44
jonopopey, it is a list for Ubuntu community governance board members12:45
jonopleia2, popey I will add you if that is ok?12:45
pleia2jono: yes, thank you12:45
dholbachanything else you want to include/change on  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation/Proposal ?12:46
popeyjono: sure12:46
jonodholbach, looks good, I think it hits the main points12:46
jussi01dholbach: you may want to actually ad the address for the tem council list there? or a link to the lists.ubuntu.com page for it12:46
dholbachjussi01: I think sabdfl is editing right now12:47
sabdflok, take a look now12:50
sabdflsorry for the deep dive on the doc12:50
jonothis looks good sabdfl12:51
* dholbach fixes a typo and adds https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/team-council-members12:52
jonosorry folks, I need to run back to the apartment, ready for my call with dholbach in 8mins12:52
jonoI will be back soon12:52
dholbachI'm happy with it12:54
* dholbach waits for it to save12:54
dholbachif nobody spots anything urgent, shall we proceed to vote?12:54
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation/Proposal?action=diff&rev2=10&rev1=9 is my last edit12:54
dholbachsabdfl, mako, popey, pleia2, Technoviking: anything else? ready to vote?12:55
popeyer, ok12:55
Technovikinglooks great to me12:55
makoyeah, still going over it12:56
pleia2needs to be reviewed for typos ("can he ha helpful guide"), but otherwise looks good12:56
makoyeah, this looks great12:56
dholbach[VOTE] Approve https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation/Proposal for all Ubuntu Team Councils and Boards?12:57
MootBotPlease vote on:  Approve https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation/Proposal for all Ubuntu Team Councils and Boards?.12:57
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot12:57
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting12:57
MootBot+1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 112:57
MootBot+1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 212:57
MootBot+1 received from Technoviking. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 312:57
MootBot+1 received from popey. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 412:57
dholbachsabdfl? :)12:58
MootBot+1 received from sabdfl. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 512:58
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 512:58
dholbachthanks a lot everybody and thanks sabdfl for that fast editing! :)12:59
sabdfli think that concludes the agenda12:59
dholbachdoes anybody of you have anything else to discuss?12:59
makotoo late :)12:59
* dholbach needs to rush off for a call in a sec12:59
dholbachmako: oh sorry12:59
makoit's ok :)12:59
makoit's in the log12:59
sabdflalright, thank you all, look forward to seeing you again soon12:59
dholbachyeah :)12:59
dholbachthanks a lot everybody13:00
sabdflthanks to those who got up extra early today :-)13:00
dholbachyeah :-)13:00
sabdflthanks dholbach and jono for preparing much of this for us13:00
Technovikingthanks all , fantastic meeting13:00
dholbachif nobody else does it, I'll do minutes later on13:00
pleia2thanks everyone13:00
sabdflcheers all13:00
dholbach(might take a bit13:00
MootBotMeeting finished at 07:00.13:00
czajkowskinicely done :)13:01
makothanks everyone :)13:02
=== agateau|lunch is now known as agateau
=== fader|away is now known as fader_
* NCommander is here for now, but will not chair since I will be running before the meeting concludes13:58
ograi'll chair as i said13:59
NCommanderJust saying :-)13:59
MootBotMeeting started at 07:59. The chair is ogra.14:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]14:00
ogradyfet, plars, GrueMaster, JamieBennett, StevenK, lool, paulliu, NCommander14:00
ograping ! :)14:00
* NCommander waves14:00
* plars is here, full throttle in hand14:00
ogradavidm, are you attending ?14:00
davidmogra, I am14:01
* ogra waits for StevenK and lool attention bits :)14:01
* StevenK shores14:01
ograah :)14:01
ogra[topic] Action item review14:01
MootBotNew Topic:  Action item review14:01
ograStevenK to look into UNR ISO size tweaks14:01
* GrueMaster has coffee, will snooze^h^h^h be alert.14:01
NCommanderI can't pull up the wiki :-/14:02
ograStevenK, how does it look14:02
plarsogra: links?14:02
ogra[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/2009102014:02
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/2009102014:02
StevenKThe UNR ISO is currently 680MB, I was going to add de14:02
ogragood move !14:02
ograsounds good then14:03
ogra- lool to file a bug about armel fsck issues14:03
loolI dont remember that bug  :-(14:03
* ogra tries to find something ... 14:04
loolOh I think I filed it14:05
loolDuring the meeting14:05
ograhmm, cant find something either14:05
ograwhich one is it ? my evolution keeps quiet on searches14:05
loologra: Oh it wasn't fsck14:06
ograwell, lets move on and dig after the meeting14:06
loolI dont know why you said that last week14:06
loolIt was binfmt_misc14:06
loolI filed 450363 and it was resolved14:06
lool[14:20] <lool> amitk: I didn't have a chance to report it, but binfmt_misc sseems to be missing in dove14:06
ograi think you pasted a log and i just grabbed fsck out there14:07
lool[14:21] <ogra> lool, are you trying to run a karmic ext4 fs with a jaunty kernel ?14:07
ograbefore we discussed it14:07
loolFor some reason you seemed to believe that was fsck related but it's not14:07
ograsorry, my failt14:07
ogra- plars to move UNR bugs from non-karmic to karmic where necessary14:07
loolDon't worry, I an blaming you!   :-)14:07
ographew, lucky me :P14:07
plarsseems I can still nominate bugs but not actually accept them14:07
plarsI nominated a few more, but I need to talk to the QA guys again about getting the ability to do that14:08
ogracan you give a list to someon who can ?14:08
plarsfor now, best to look at the subscribed list14:08
plarsfor ubuntu-unr team14:08
plarsfocus on high/critical14:08
ograso we come to the intresting action items :)14:08
ogra- new rolling action: everyone with upload privs to look inot sponsoring bugs next week and report which ones he closed14:09
=== MosquitoOo is now known as MaWaLe
ograi sponsored the fis for bug 44535814:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 445358 in cdrdao "cdrdao fails to build on armv7l" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44535814:09
ogranothing more sadly :/14:09
ogralool, StevenK, what did you guys sponsor this week ? :)14:10
loolWell it's Jamie's14:10
ograits a sponsoring upload14:10
* lool marks a big one in ogra's box and a small zero in hi14:10
StevenKogra: I uploaded jijget (or so) for maco14:11
ograStevenK, did you do any sponsoring ?14:11
StevenKI was trying to remember how to spell it, and failed14:11
StevenKSo I guessed14:11
ograwell, at least we have something on the list14:11
ogralets improve that ;)14:11
ograok ...14:12
ogra- anyone who has spare test cycles to test lool's ffmpeg packages14:12
* ogra shamefully hans his head 14:12
ogra*hangs too ...14:12
ogradid anyone test the packages ?14:12
StevenKIf that's an arm package, ENOHARDWARE14:12
ograapart from the producer i mean :)14:12
GrueMasterI did some testing.  I don't have a lot of test videos, but what I do have seemed to play ok, even from an NFS share.14:12
loolI asked for testing on any arch and got some14:13
ograStevenK, right, but dyfet NCommander plars JamieBennett or GrueMaster could test14:13
loolplars reported that performance did not improve on non-NEON hardware which is ok14:13
* NCommander hangs his head14:13
looland it was pushed to karmic so it is sufficiently tested at this point14:13
ograanything we need to do about past specs in the spec review topic ?14:14
ogra[topic] spec review14:14
MootBotNew Topic:  spec review14:14
ograwho has ideas for lucid and wants to share ?14:14
NCommanderext2 images versus vfat14:14
ogra* casper cleanup/speedup14:15
StevenKOn arm?14:15
NCommanderhardware based system recovery14:15
StevenKStacked livefses14:15
NCommanderStevenK, in general, but mostly targetted for ARM14:15
ogra* stacked squashfs builds for live images (separate rootfs and kernel/modules completely)14:15
NCommander * clean up d-cd armel backends to remove a ton of code duplication between imx51 and dove14:15
ograoh, StevenK beats me :)14:15
* StevenK beats ogra 14:15
NCommander * ARM Softbootloader (again)14:16
StevenKApplication changes for UNR14:16
ogra* my personal one: move debian-cd for imx51 completely to redboot-tools14:16
StevenKSession changes for UNR14:16
StevenKMoblin Remix Revisited14:16
NCommander * UNR for ARM revisited14:16
ograwill we revisit it ?14:16
ogradavidm, ^^ ?14:16
NCommanderWell, in either case, we still need to figure out how we're going to handle Moblin for Lucid14:17
ogra*if* we handle it we have to, yes14:18
davidmWe will need to revisit, likely with a 2D launcher14:18
JamieBennett1not sure what happened there14:18
ogradavidm, moblin with a 2D launcher ?14:18
davidmUNR with 2D launcer sorry14:19
davidmUMR is up in the air14:19
ogralool, you said you had a list with spec suggestions too14:19
GrueMasterThere is a high possibility that we will be seeing PSB drivers again in that time frame.14:19
loolPlease let us use "moblin remix" not UMR14:19
NCommanderGrueMaster, ?14:20
* StevenK sobs14:20
persiaLast cycle, there was https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/KarmicSpecifications : why not do the same forhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/LucidSpecifications ?14:20
GrueMasterInside info.14:20
* lool uploads http://paste.ubuntu.com/297486/14:20
persiaAnd review the suggestions everyone adds there one-by-one next week.14:20
ograpersia, btw, any suggestions14:20
ogra(assuming you return in lucid)14:21
dyfetI had put up one spec for broader discussion, but it is VoIP related, and not mobile centric14:21
StevenKdyfet: No LXDE stuff?14:21
persiaogra, Assuming I have time, I'd like to improve desktop/handheld interaction stuff.14:21
dyfetI am going to have a LXDE one done in large part from the community14:21
MootBotLINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/297492/14:24
ograthats what i stripped out of the discussion14:24
ograso everyone please add specs to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/LucidSpecifications until next meeting14:24
ogra[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/LucidSpecifications14:24
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/LucidSpecifications14:24
ograanything else for specs ?14:25
StevenKogra: By name?14:25
StevenKogra: Or just list them?14:25
GrueMasterSomeone needs to make the LucidSpecifications wiki to start with.14:25
ograi think we should just list them for now14:25
loolStevenK: progress on ISO size bits for UNR?14:25
ograGrueMaster, the first one who gets there i'd say :P14:26
NCommanderI have an update with dove14:26
StevenKlool: UNR is 680, I don't think I can shrink it14:26
ogralool, covered at the beginning14:26
StevenKlool: I was going to add de/fr14:26
ograok, lets move on14:26
plarsbringup test procedures for new hardware, and documentation of what works/doesn't, workarounds, etc14:26
ogra[topic] UNR Status14:26
MootBotNew Topic:  UNR Status14:26
NCommanderpartman-uboot was merged and intergrated (thank you cjwatson). I smoke tested it, but I haven't tested one of today's dailies14:26
ograso StevenK anything intresting beyond size reduction ?14:26
StevenKLots of testing!14:27
ograindeed !!!14:27
NCommanderLook, I got ot run, my gate may have changed.14:27
StevenKRC is this week!14:27
NCommanderor not14:27
ograall for UNR ?14:27
loolnetbook-launcher upload14:28
ogra[topic] moblin remix Status14:28
MootBotNew Topic:  moblin remix Status14:28
looland notify-osd upload14:28
loolbut it's basically ok14:28
StevenKI'd like to upload casper14:28
ograpaulliu, so how does moblin look ?14:28
StevenKBut I need to build an initrd that isn't broken14:29
paulliuogra: Just left some minor bugs.14:29
ograruns and installs ?14:29
plarshaven't looked at the new image this morning yet, but according to lool the apt popup error should be fixed now14:29
paulliuAnd those bugs are upstream bugs.14:29
GrueMasterMoblin Compliance testing failures down to 165, mostly programmatic errors at this point.14:29
loolWe just have a new image published14:29
paulliuogra: yes.14:29
ogracool !!!14:29
ograso pretty much on track it seems14:29
StevenKGrueMaster: Our errors?14:29
* ogra doesnt have errors14:30
paulliuMoblin 2.1 preview is updated by Intel again. However we've freezed so not going to update the versions.14:30
paulliuIt changes a lot.14:30
GrueMasterDon't know.  I am seeing the same errors on the LSB testing.  I think a lot of them are actually in the tests.14:30
plarsGrueMaster: where are this posted? the last results I see say 17314:30
NCommanderGrueMaster, check the LSB sight to see what tests have errata and/or waviers14:30
paulliuABI/API bump in foundation libraries.14:30
GrueMasterI will upload the new results this morning.14:30
plarsGrueMaster: also, I don't recall, was there a comparison run with upstream moblin?14:30
paulliuSo we are going to establish another PPA. OEM team have to update all the packages before this week.14:30
GrueMasterThis is from Friday test run.14:30
plarsGrueMaster: cool, thanks14:30
loolpaulliu: god  :-(14:31
ograoh my14:31
StevenKpaulliu: Argh!14:31
StevenKpaulliu: Why?14:31
NCommanderpaulliu, OW14:31
NCommanderpaulliu, I do hope that the soversions and friends have been properly bumped14:31
paulliuDon't worry. Personally I'll update Debian packages with OEM team so in Lucid we'll have newer versions.14:31
GrueMasterI haven't had a chance to run a comparison with upstream, mainly because they are missing a lot of necessary bits from their repository.14:31
loolIt seems we didn't cover the UNR nor the moblin bugs14:31
plarsGrueMaster: that's a decent improvement from the previous, was that due to config changes, additional packages you installed, fixes made in the packages? what?14:32
lool[link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr14:32
MootBotLINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr14:32
loolnjpatel: dbarth wanted to tentatively poke this UNR bug14:32
paulliuNCommander: yes. soname is bumped. So package name bumped too..14:32
NCommanderpaulliu, that's good; it could be worse.14:32
GrueMasterAdding sym links to some newer libraries actually.14:32
loolnjpatel: There are a unch of fix committed or in progress bugs on https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unr which seem like they probably should be fix released14:32
StevenKGrueMaster: That isn't a solution14:32
GrueMasterSome libraries are backwards compatible with older versions.14:33
GrueMasterSome aren't, which caused more failures.  I ran a libcheck test on this before launching the main test run.14:33
paulliuGrueMaster: Ah. I'm sure it doesn't backward compatible. If updates that library, things are FTBFS.14:33
paulliuGrueMaster: So we have to update those stuff together.14:33
lool[link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-moblin14:34
MootBotLINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-moblin14:34
njpatellool: I'll catch up with dbarth on the keyring bug14:34
loolpaulliu: I'm a bit worried with the cheer number of sync bugs there14:34
loolpaulliu: Shall we close them to prevent them from happening?14:34
njpatellool: I need to make a clutk release that will fix the allocation crashes, will do that before end of today14:34
njpatellool: sorry, that will fix-release the crashers14:34
loolnjpatel: Ok thanks14:34
paulliulool: Yes. We should close them now. I found it tries to sync the newer version in Debian which I just upload for OEM team.. :(14:35
loolpaulliu: Could you close them?14:35
paulliulool: Yes. I'll do that after the meeting.14:35
ogra[action] paulliu to close remaining moblin sync bugs for karmic14:35
MootBotACTION received:  paulliu to close remaining moblin sync bugs for karmic14:35
plarsnjpatel: excellent, that should fix all of them? shall I dup them all to one so that you can just tag it with that lp#, or are they actually separate problems?14:35
loolStevenK: I assigned you to 439656 and marked it as triaged14:35
loolStevenK: mark it in progress if you're working on it14:35
ograare we done with moblin/UNR status ? ....14:36
ogra[topic] armel status14:36
MootBotNew Topic:  armel status14:36
lool[link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-moblin-remix/+bugs14:36
MootBotLINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-moblin-remix/+bugs14:36
njpatelplars: I believe it'll fix the _allocate crashers and the screwup with the rows of icons (overlapping and bogus spaces)14:37
loolplars, GrueMaster: Would probably help if more bugs had an importance on the above list, but I read through them as they came in and don't recall a lot of scary things14:37
njpatelplars: I was using this https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/clutk/+bug/445995 for _allocate issues14:37
plarslool: those are moblin, not armel14:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 445995 in clutk "netbook-launcher crashed with SIGFPE in clutter_actor_allocate()" [Critical,Fix committed]14:37
loolplars: I know, I had the URL ready when ogra moved to armel14:37
loolI can't help it if he moves faster than I type  :-)14:37
ograwell, thats why i asked if you are done :P14:38
plarsah, ok :) and yes, agreed, will try to pick through them a bit, but moblin has been further down on my list lately14:38
loologra: in the same minute, you asked, moved on, and I posted the URL; I dont care14:38
loolplease continue14:38
GrueMasterlool: We will triage these as fast as we can, but we can only juggle so much.14:38
loologra: It would help if as part of discussing each topic you posted bugs URLs though14:38
ograok, armel status ... NCommander ? how does dove look like ?14:38
NCommanderogra, partman-uboot was merged in by cjwatson last night14:39
lool[link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-armel14:39
MootBotLINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-armel14:39
NCommanderubiquity and partman-auto was also changed14:39
NCommanderBoth imx51 and dove images should be heavily tested. I don't except any unusual breakage, but its a fairly large change (especially this late)14:39
loolNCommander: do you cover bootrom and uboot updates in the install doc?14:39
ograNCommander, great, did you test it very very hard before it was committed ?14:39
NCommanderogra, several test installs, but I'm just one person14:40
NCommanderlool, I updated it to the previous drop we got from Marvell. I have to poke it for 4.3.114:40
NCommander(which I haven't seen a stable drop of yet)14:40
ograimx51 netinst has issues with dhclient and the FEC driver14:40
ograimx51 alternate has bug 36092514:41
NCommanderlool, dyfet ran through the instructions end to end, made sure they work. I also standardized Y0 and Y1 boot methods14:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 360925 in mobile-meta "md5sum check of UNR image fails in one file" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/36092514:41
ogra(i suspect dove has the same issue)14:41
loolNCommander: did you report to marvell on testing of their uboot?14:41
NCommanderlool, yes I did14:41
dyfetI tested Y0 of course, but yes, it worked14:41
loologra: what's the bug for the dhclient issue?14:41
ograno bug yet, i'll file it later today14:41
loolAbout time14:41
ogra[action] ogra to file a bug for dhclient not working properly with the FEC driver in d-i14:42
MootBotACTION received:  ogra to file a bug for dhclient not working properly with the FEC driver in d-i14:42
NCommanderAs a heads up this week, I don't have my boards setup, I brought them withme in case the shit hits the fan, but unless needed, I do not plan to have them up and running so I'm not going to be available for ARM image testing14:42
NCommandertime for me to board14:42
loolNCommander: Good thanks14:42
NCommanderlool, I'll be back online in 1h-1:30 based on flight time.14:42
ograand as a reminder i'm on the roda from tomorrow on, imx51 testing needs to be done by others until monday14:43
ograbut i dont expect any regressions here, desktop works definately fine14:43
JamieBennett1ogra: I can do some testing14:43
ogranetinst and alternate work with some tinkering14:43
plarsso can I14:43
ogracool, thanks14:43
GrueMastersame here.  I have both Y0 & Y1.14:44
ograand babbage :)14:44
JamieBennett1looks like we have it covered then :)14:44
GrueMasteryea, that too.14:44
loolcan we close bug #450940?14:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 450940 in linux-mvl-dove "Regression in linux-mvl-dove 207 and later causes Y0 boards to hang seconds after booting" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45094014:44
cjwatsonnote I made some corrections to NCommander's ubiquity changes, so it does need further testing14:44
plarsGrueMaster: have you tried the recent images on Y0 to see if that's still a problem?14:45
cjwatsonwith specific attention to the behaviour of the mountpoint drop-down when creating or editing uboot partitions in ubiquity's manual partitioner14:45
GrueMasterThe Y0 I have has the updated firmware and wasn't a problem to begin with.14:45
GrueMasterI traded with Brad last week.14:45
loolI'll go ahead and close 45094014:46
plarscjwatson: thanks for the heads up, we should take a look at the partman stuff this week anyway since it just changed14:46
loolGrueMaster, plars: You guys tested suspend resume on imx51 as well?14:46
GrueMasternot yet.14:46
plarslool: I haven't yet, but my suspicion is that it does not resume14:47
plarshad to borrow parts to work on dove, so my b2.5 is down, bringing it back to life today14:47
ogra[action] GrueMaster and plars to test suspend/resume on babbage and report results14:47
MootBotACTION received:  GrueMaster and plars to test suspend/resume on babbage and report results14:47
loolplars: IMO do order enough parts that you can test the two at the same time; check with davidm but I think it's going to be important for release that we can test quickly multiple platforms at the same time14:48
GrueMasterI'll try to get to it.  My babbage has been focusing on the sata issue lately, but I can move the drive to a usb cable.14:48
plarslool: right, I had to make an unexpected  change14:48
ograsoo, is that all for armel ...14:48
GrueMasterlool: I agree.  I have 7 systems at my desk right now, all of which are accessible.14:48
ogralool, speak up !14:48
loolGrueMaster: You can test suspend resume from cmdline if you like  :)14:48
GrueMasterBetter to test with gui.14:49
loolWell I think nobody is chasing the toolchain issues except doko14:49
GrueMasterMore involved.14:49
davidmplars, order parts to have both boards up and running14:49
ograsuspend should work from livefs14:49
loolWould be nice if someone could research the various toolchain issues on the list14:49
ograhibernate needs an install14:49
looldyfet: Which bugs are you working on ATM?14:50
ogradyfet, *?14:51
dyfetI am going to close 453159 and 438450 today14:52
dyfetand add and close a bug for pigdin-sipe14:52
loolbug 45315914:52
ubottuLaunchpad bug 453159 in isdnutils "gcc 4.4 issue and casting of void * to va_list prevents armel build" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45315914:52
loolbug 43845014:52
ubottuLaunchpad bug 438450 in sqliteodbc "On arm, at least, builds with libsqlite0 instead of libsqlite3" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43845014:52
looldyfet: Ok14:53
dyfetand the sipe one needs to be added :)...I will report it when I post the patch14:53
GrueMasterI am going to retest imx51 and see if bug #424400 can be closed.14:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 424400 in linux-fsl-imx51 "DM9601 or Pegasus based USB NICs dont find their MAC address under 2.6.31-100-imx51" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42440014:53
looldyfet: these two are in universe though; perhaps you should focus on stuff in main first14:53
NC|Mobiledoor been closed. gtg14:54
ograthere was a new banshee upload this week14:54
loolQuick announce: I pushed armel cross compilers to my PPA14:54
dyfetlool: true, but they looked like they would be quick to resolve and were arm specific14:54
ogradyfet, could you test the recent banshee ? it might fix issues14:55
dyfetogra: yes...and I wonder if we still get divergent results :)14:55
loologra: I had the same stacktrace just installing a -cil package so I doubt it will be enough to resolve the mono issues14:55
ogra[action] dyfet to test recent banshee release and report to the banshee bug14:55
MootBotACTION received:  dyfet to test recent banshee release and report to the banshee bug14:55
ogralool, i havent14:55
ogra(as i reported on the bug)14:56
loolI did14:56
ograare we done with armel ?14:56
ograanything to add ?14:56
* lool is done14:56
ogra[topic] AOB14:56
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB14:56
StevenKYes, it's 1am, and I'd like to sleep. :-P14:56
GrueMasterAny news on the imx51 sata issue?14:57
ogracall is tonight14:57
GrueMaster(sorry, ogra types fast).14:57
JamieBennett1StevenK, orgra: AR's!14:57
ograwill do after the meeting14:57
loolGrueMaster: We confirmed that it is a kernel bug and that the gnome-session test case is enough to reproduce for kernel folks14:57
GrueMastercrack that whip.14:57
StevenKJamieBennett1: Will send before sleepy-time14:57
ograGrueMaster, we will14:57
loolGrueMaster: So the ball is in the kernel camp; hopefully FSL can help figure out a fix here14:57
=== JamieBennett1 is now known as JamieBennett
ogra2 mins left ... any other AOB stuff ?14:58
ogragoing once ...14:58
ogragoing twice ...14:58
MootBotMeeting finished at 08:59.14:59
ograthanks all14:59
GrueMastersold to the lady with the pink tutu.14:59
plarswith 1 min to spare, woot!14:59
GrueMasteroh, sorry.  Must be the coffee.14:59
MootBotMeeting started at 09:01. The chair is Keybuk.15:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]15:01
Keybuk[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda15:01
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda15:01
Keybukmdz, cjwatson, kees: ping?15:01
mdzKeybuk: pong15:02
Keybukok, that's three15:04
Keybukwe have a pretty short agenda today I think15:04
Keybuk[TOPIC] Developer Membership Board15:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Developer Membership Board15:04
keesKeybuk: review actions from last meeting first?15:05
Keybukkees: I can't find them, doesn't look like pitti sent them out?15:05
kees# Keybuk to finalize unit policy and email to TB for vote15:05
kees# cjwatson to drive vote on Archive Reorg rights for ubuntu-desktop and mythbuntu in email15:05
kees# pitti to announce DMB meeting next Tuesday 140015:05
Keybukah, thanks15:06
Keybuk(pitti should mail them too)15:06
Keybukunits policy is already on the agenda15:06
Keybukcjwatson is not here (but has done both of those action points)15:06
KeybukDMB meeting took place, so pitti's agenda item is cleared15:06
* kees nods15:06
Keybuk[TOPIC] Developer Membership Board15:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Developer Membership Board15:06
KeybukWe had the first meeting, and subsequent meetings will take place as needed15:07
KeybukML is set up, and I saw the ML request go to RT for the private list15:07
bdrungFYI i am here for units policy15:07
keeshi bdrung, thanks15:07
Keybukand the MC now send their reviews to the DMB15:07
KeybukI think we can consider this complete, modulo documentation changes15:07
Keybukjono: you took the action for those, how's that going?15:07
pittio/ (sorry for being late)15:08
jonoKeybuk, sorry, which actions?15:08
keespitti: np, just reviewed actions, and now covering last item of DMB15:08
Keybukjono: updating governance documentation to reflect that the DMB is now handling developer applications, not the TB15:08
mdzjono: documentation changes15:08
mdzKeybuk: FYI I've added an item to the agenda just now15:09
Keybukjono: you took it as an action in the 2009-09-08 TB meeting15:09
jonoKeybuk, oh, right, I was waiting on Keybuk to finish off a previous action to do this, I will look into it15:09
jonosorry about that15:09
Keybuknp, will carry over15:09
KeybukI'll remove the standing agenda item now in favour of tracking actions15:09
Keybuk[ACTION] jono to review and update governance documentation to reflect that the DMB is now handling developer applications, not the TB15:09
MootBotACTION received:  jono to review and update governance documentation to reflect that the DMB is now handling developer applications, not the TB15:09
Keybuk[TOPIC] Units Policy15:10
MootBotNew Topic:  Units Policy15:10
KeybukI took an action for this at the last meeting, but noted I'd likely not have time15:10
KeybukI was right, I didn't have time15:10
jonothanks Keybuk15:10
Keybuksince the release is next week, this seems ok to defer15:11
keesdoes anything remain other than a vote for the unit policy?15:11
bdrungmaybe improve the wording15:11
bdrungare the any objection that should be discussed?15:12
Keybukthe exception also seemed ... odd15:12
cjwatsonerk, sorry I'm late15:12
Keybuke.g. "only the prefix is displayed and not the unit (e.g. M instead of MB)"15:12
Keybukit seems much less difficult to simply state that traditional UNIX command-line tools are exempt, provided they provide options to select the output sizes15:13
kees(for the logs)  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy15:13
Keybuk[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy15:13
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy15:13
KeybukI don't want to spend too much time on this today as we're all busy with release-related stuff15:13
bdrungKeybuk: yes, your idea is simpler. how about providing an exception list?15:13
Keybukso let's continue this by e-mail15:14
Keybukbdrung: right, that's what I was thinking15:14
Keybuk[ACTION] keybuk to drive units policy to completion and vote by e-mail15:14
MootBotACTION received:  keybuk to drive units policy to completion and vote by e-mail15:14
Keybuk[TOPIC] EC2 image updates15:14
MootBotNew Topic:  EC2 image updates15:14
Keybuk[LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-September/028954.html15:14
MootBotLINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-September/028954.html15:14
Keybukmdz: ?15:15
smoserthis is my topic, but I am not exactly sure what is expected of me.15:15
mdzsmoser sent an RFC to ubuntu-devel15:16
smoserthe link above describes the proposal regarding support / updates to ec2 images.15:16
mdzthe basic issue is that Ubuntu for EC2 is distributed as a pre-installed image15:16
mdzand the EC2 model is such that updates are not applied in the usual manner15:16
mdz(if they are, it needs to be done on every boot)15:17
mdzso he has proposed that we should periodically refresh the images to incorporate updates15:17
keessounds reasonable.15:17
Keybukah, I wondered what he was proposing15:17
mdzhe hasn't received any feedback on the proposal yet15:17
cjwatsonthat's the case for live CDs too, but I can see how UEC images are different since the usage model is different15:17
Keybukhe used lots of terms and abbreviations that only cloud people know ;)15:17
smoser(above, it is not on "every boot", but on every first boot of a new instance)15:18
Keybukso it's entirely possible nobody outside of the UEC team knew what he was on about <g>15:18
mdzKeybuk: he did explain pretty clearly in the email, but it was long15:18
Keybukmdz: I disagree15:18
KeybukI read the entire e-mail15:18
Keybukan I've just re-read it15:18
Keybukand your one line explanation was far clearer15:18
Keybuk(remember, you know about cloud - I don't)15:19
mdzon EC2, the root filesystem and kernel are published separately, so it is possible to update the kernel while leaving the root filesystem alone, and vice versa15:19
mdzso he has proposed separate policies for when to update each15:19
cjwatsonmy main concern is release management; we know that point releases are a big whack of work, so this needs to be much more lightweight15:19
keesI would think a place like www.ubuntu.com/ec2-version-query/... would make a better official place to get AMI updates than on ~soren15:19
mdzwhen the kernel is updated, the rootfs would always be updated as well (since it contains the modules)15:19
Keybukis the rootfs like a ramfs?15:20
mdzkees: smoser is in the process of replacing the (prototype) ~soren thing with something more official15:20
Keybukor is the ramdisk something different?15:20
mdzKeybuk: it's typically a compressed writable filesystem15:20
mdzthe ramdisk is the initrd15:20
smoserKeybuk, rootfs is a partition image (consumed by xen)15:20
mdzso there is kernel (AKI) and ramdisk (ARI)15:20
Keybukwhat about the cases where you update the ramdisk and accidentally include updates to things like udev that aren't on the rootfs yet?15:21
mdzan AMI is a rootfs + a reference to an AKI and ARI used to boot it15:21
mdzsmoser: have I got that right?15:21
smosermdz, yes.15:21
Keybukif you update the kernel, you need to update the initrd and root filesystem since they have modules on them15:21
mdzwhen an EC2 user wants to start a new Ubuntu system up, they just specify the AMI they want15:21
Keybukif you update the root filesystem, you need to update the initrd too because it contains bits of it15:21
keesKeybuk: AIUI, you run the risk of hosing your image.15:21
mdzthe AMI is a short, inscrutable hex number15:22
Keybukif you update the initrd, you run the disk of including updates that aren't on the root filesystem yet15:22
Keybukseparate policies for them seems like a very bad idea15:22
smoserKeybuk, i will admit to not having thought of that.  However, the proposal is that a kernel update indicates a new root. so it should not be an issue.15:22
sabdflare there items in the ramdisk which could trigger an update too? as i read it, it's only kernel updates that do so15:22
keesI think the point is that it's not just the kernel changing that should trigger an ARI/AMI update.15:23
Keybuksmoser: so when would you not just update all three bits at the same time?15:23
Keybukas I see it, kernel implies initrd and rootfs update15:23
smoserany time the rootfs is updated it will take the most recent kernel/ramdisk at the time.15:23
Keybukinitrd means you must also update the rootfs otherwise you'll screw yourself one day15:23
Keybukrootfs means you must also update the initrd15:24
Keybuksmoser: you can't do that15:24
smoserany time kernel/ramdisk is updated (in builds) it forces a refresh of root15:24
Keybukif you update the rootfs, you must update the ramdisk too15:24
mdza rootfs update does not generally require a kernel update, and may not require an initrd update15:24
Keybukmdz: disagree strongly15:24
mdzKeybuk: generally, yes, but not always15:24
mdzKeybuk: an update to screen or w3m does not require a new initrd15:25
cjwatsoncan we determine this ad-hoc, based on (e.g.) the set of updates since the last image?15:25
mdzKeybuk: I don't necessarily disagree with you that we should update them in sync, as that would be simpler15:25
Keybukmdz: and the cost of determining that for each release?15:25
Keybukthat starts to put a larger release management overhead for these15:25
cjwatsonwe can tell automatically whether a package calls update-initramfs in its postinst, plus perhaps a small number of exceptions15:25
cjwatson(e.g. busybox-initramfs, don't ask)15:25
Keybukmy between-the-lines reading was that you wanted light release management of "update the images this week"15:26
Keybukis there a Bad Thing of just updating the three bits together15:26
Keybukat least then you vastly reduce your testing matrix15:26
mdzwe want a clear (preferably automatable) test to say "yes it is time to roll an update"15:26
Keybukotherwise you really should be testing all combinations of kernel, initrd and rootfs15:26
smoserI apologize for being dense here, but I believe the proposal is to update the 3 bits together.15:26
smoserKeybuk, where do you see something that doesn't state that?15:27
Keybuksmoser: honestly, I can't understand half of your proposal15:27
KeybukI don't know what an aki, ami, ari or uzi are ;)15:27
smoserKeybuk, fair enough.15:27
mdzKeybuk: I just explained15:27
Keybukcan we not just simply it to "UEC Image" ?15:28
Keybukrather than resorting to jargon?15:28
sabdflthe proposal is mostly useful to people who do understand ubuntu and ec2. now that mdz's explained, scott, you could read it again and see if you're happy with it in the light of your newfound insight ;-)15:28
mdzKeybuk: sure15:29
cjwatson"At the time of publish, AMIs will be associated with the latest AKI/ARI15:29
cjwatsonthat is available."15:29
cjwatsonI think Scott is requesting that we just bundle up a new AKI/ARI at the same time, too15:29
Keybuksabdfl: I am doing so, and I think the proposal is still vastly overworded now I think I get it15:30
cjwatsonor at least a new ARI (initrd), it's probably fairly easy to see when the AKI (kernel) doesn't need to change15:30
Keybukcjwatson: right, I think that's what I mean15:30
keesIIUC, proposal is: if anything changes in kernel or ramdisk, AKI/ARI/AMI is generated.  otherwise, just AMI.15:30
mdzkees: that's my understanding as well15:31
sabdflcan we always detect that something needs to change in the rd?15:31
keeswhich means as long as there is a way to discover "current AMI", a user will always have the latest of everything published.15:31
sabdflkees: no, i don't think the proposal is to roll a new set every time there is any update at all15:32
mdzkees: which is covered by the "Currency" section15:32
sabdfljust kernel updates, major security updates, and when the queue of updates is big15:32
cjwatsonsabdfl: initrd change> yes (I think), but it may be more work than is worth it15:32
smoserif there is a reason to always update kernel/ramdisk with each new AMI, then I do not have a good reason why that should not occur.15:32
Keybuksmoser: I don't think you need to update the kernel bit (AKI?)15:33
keessabdfl: right, I should restate it as: when something important changes in kernel or ramdisk, AKI/ARI/AMI is generated.  otherwise, just AMI.15:33
Keybukif there's no new kernel, that's a static image15:33
cjwatsonthe initrd is tiny and quick to build by comparison with the rest15:33
Keybukif you can auto-detect whether a new ARI is needed for a given AMI, then ok, otherwise I'd recommend always rolling a new ARI with a new AMI15:33
Keybuk(did I get that right? :p)15:33
smoserKeybuk, ah. ok. now i'm undertanding the problem.15:33
cjwatsonKeybuk: my counter-proposal would be: when something important changes in kernel or ramdisk, AKI/ARI/AMI is generated.  otherwise, ARI and AMI15:33
cjwatsonkees: ^-15:34
Keybukcjwatson: isn't that what I just said? :p15:34
cjwatsonKeybuk: sorry, I meant to direct that to kees15:34
keescjwatson, Keybuk: yeah, good.15:34
cjwatsonthis is basically just defensive programming, since it's not trivial (not *that* hard, but) to tell when the initrd needs to change, and it's not that expensive to just change it anyway15:34
Keybukcjwatson: agree15:35
mdzsmoser: is there any cost related to releasing a new ARI which we might not be aware of?15:35
smosernot that i can think of.15:35
Keybuk. o O { why do UEC images have ramdisks anyway, surely the kernel can just mount the rootfs? }15:36
smoseronly that I had previously assumed kernel:ramdisk was 1:1, not 1:N15:36
mdzok, in that case I think I more or less agree with cjwatson, except s/ or ramdisk/15:36
mdzi.e.: if the kernel changes, roll a new AKI/ARI/AMI, otherwise, roll new ARI/AMI with the old AKI15:36
Keybukmdz: right, good catch15:36
KeybukARI changes means ARI/AMI not AKI/ARI/AMI15:37
keesKeybuk: I thought you had concerns about ramdisky things like udev?15:37
cjwatsonmdz: yes15:37
mdzKeybuk: good question15:37
mdzsmoser: is it possible to omit the ramdisk, technically?15:37
Keybukkees: ramdisky things like udev would be fine in that situation - my concern is the udev version in the ramdisk and rootfs being out of sync with each other15:38
smoserfrom a 'allowed by amazon' perspective, yes15:38
Keybukkees: since they transfer data by a secret protocol known to no man that changes with the winds ;)15:38
=== RainCT_ is now known as RainCT
smoseri'm not sure as to whether or not our kernels have all the needed drivers built in. but obviously they could.15:38
mdzobviously that's not an option for 9.1015:39
mdzor older releases15:39
mdzso we need to address the ramdisk question anyway15:39
keesKeybuk: ok15:39
mdzand can look at whether it can be eliminated in lucid15:39
Keybukso, new AKI -> new AKI/ARI/AMI15:39
Keybuknew ARI or AMI -> new ARI/AMI15:39
mdzsmoser: do we presently provide any mechanism by which updates can be automatically installed at boot time?15:40
smoservia user-data.15:40
mdzor is that something that users have to roll their own?15:40
smoserie, if user boots with '--user-data "#!/bin/sh\napt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade"'15:40
mdzsmoser: ok, so they can pass in a script which does it, but we don't provide a simple toggle or anything15:40
smoserthat will get done.15:40
smosermdz, correct, we do not.15:40
smoserthere is not at the moment a general "config" like format to feed to an instance, only scripts.15:41
mdzsmoser: ok, so for 9.10 purposes, users are on their own with regard to keeping up to date15:42
mdzin that case, does it make sense to measure the size of updates or time to install?15:42
mdzshould we rather just update it every N days or whenever there's a critical issue?15:42
mdz(for 9.10)15:42
mdzkees: have you considered how this would tie into the security team's process?  presumably the USN should mention the new AMI where appropriate15:43
smoserI do not have the experience with SRU that others here have. but it seems that updating every N days when there are zero (or very few) updates is overkill.15:43
keesmdz: we have been pushing for ec2 to have a way for people to "get the latest".  I don't want to delay kernel publications on an update of AKI.15:44
mdzsmoser: my point was, if that criterion is based on the assumption that everyone will install updates at boot, is that a valid assumption given that it relies on the user to implement it manually?15:44
mdzkees: what if the security team could push a new AKI?15:44
smoserthat is a valid question.  I have had the feeling from others that it is fairly common to do update on first (or every) boot15:45
mdzsmoser: which is an EC2 question rather than SRU15:45
mdzsmoser: ok15:45
keesmdz: I would rather got gain that responsibility as it sets a bad precedence.  we are basically "upstream" for all derivatives.15:45
mdzsmoser: we certainly shouldn't do an update if there are no updates to packages in the image15:46
smoserrealize that the image as it is is basically useless, so each instance that is created will have *something* done to it to make it useful to the user15:46
sabdflcould we move all the kernel bits from the rootfs into the rd?15:46
smoserlikely they realize that one of the things they should do is update15:46
mdzsmoser: right, and we are assuming that a standard part of everyone's user-data script (who cares about security) is to install updates15:46
mdzwhich seems reasonable at this stage, though in the future I think we should explore simplifying that15:46
mdze.g. have unattended-upgrades automatically run at boot on EC2?15:47
mdzsomething to think about for the future15:47
smoseryes. i think that it is reasonable to have that as a default that can be easily turned off15:48
* kees agrees strongly15:48
mdzsmoser: it sounds like there is general agreement that 1) it is appropriate to issue new images periodically, 2) when to update AKI vs. ARI vs. AMI15:48
mdzdoes anyone have concerns with smoser's proposal to refresh based on time-to-install-updates or an approximation thereof?15:49
sabdflfine by me15:49
Keybukseems ok15:49
mdzhow about the support lifetime section, which basically says we will continue to provide updated images for the maintenance lifetime of the product?15:50
keesit was time-to-install or security update criticality  (AMI Updates / Stable Releases / a & b)15:50
mdzfor 8.04 LTS and 9.10+15:50
Keybukthat seems logical15:50
mdzkees: yes, thanks for the correction15:50
* kees now15:50
Keybukwe support an Ubuntu install with some updates installed for the same time period15:50
* kees nods15:50
Keybukphilosophically speaking, these images are just an alternate way of providing the same updates15:51
mdzso I think that leaves only 1) how users will find out about, and start using, the new AMIs (Currency)15:51
mdzare there any other outstanding questions or concerns?15:51
mdzI agree with Keybuk that it would help if the document were condensed15:52
mdznow that we have consensus, it should probably be made more procedural, i.e. step-by-step decision-making and release process, rather than explanation/RFC15:52
smoserI will update the wiki document.15:54
Keybukanything else on this topic?15:54
mdzif there are no other questions, I suggest that the next steps should be: 1. smoser to redraft, and 2. continue working on a system to allow users to find the right AMI15:54
keessounds right15:55
Keybuk[TOPIC] Community Bugs15:55
MootBotNew Topic:  Community Bugs15:55
Keybuk[LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard15:55
MootBotLINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard15:56
mdzsmoser: thanks15:56
Keybuk[TOPIC] # Select a chair for the next meeting15:56
MootBotNew Topic:  # Select a chair for the next meeting15:56
Keybukby my reckoning, it's mdz's turn next ;)15:56
Keybukthough it's posibble that there's a lot of leave being taken that week15:56
keescjwatson: anything to cover for "Archive reorganisation" ?15:56
mdzI will be traveling and may or may not be able to attend the meeting15:56
cjwatsonkees: not right now15:56
keescjwatson: ok, thanks15:57
pittivote is still going on15:57
mdzI will try to make it, but I don't think I can commit to chair15:57
cjwatsonI will be travelling week after next as well15:57
KeybukI am away that week15:57
keesI can chair it, but it sounds like we'll lack quorum?15:57
mdzpitti, kees, sabdfl?15:57
pittiI should be available15:58
sabdflah, attendance15:58
sabdfli'll be there15:58
mdzsabdfl: chair15:58
sabdflmdz: i thought scott said it was your turn15:58
Keybuksabdfl: mdz is away that week15:58
kees4 is quorum?15:58
Keybukor possibly won't be able to make it15:59
=== jono_ is now known as jono
Keybuksabdfl: and technically speaking, it's your turn since you've never chaired :p15:59
sabdfli'm just a lowly ex officio member here, iirc15:59
sabdflok, i'll chair it16:00
* bdale chuckles16:00
mdzKeybuk: AOB?16:00
Keybuk[TOPIC] AOB16:01
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB16:01
Keybuknone, good16:01
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:01.16:01
sabdflthanks all16:01
Keybukthanks everyone16:01
pittithanks all16:01
* mathiaz waves16:02
ttxkirkland, smoser: around ?16:03
ttxwaiting for mdz...16:04
mdzttx: here16:05
MootBotMeeting started at 10:05. The chair is mdz.16:05
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:05
mdz[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting16:06
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting16:06
mdz[topic] Review ACTION points from previous meeting16:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting16:06
mdzACTION: kirkland to adapt help.ubuntu.com VM recipe(s?) to use libvirt16:06
kirklandmdz: not yet16:06
mdz[action]  kirkland to adapt help.ubuntu.com VM recipe(s?) to use libvirt16:06
kirklandmdz: i plan on doing some documentation this week16:06
MootBotACTION received:   kirkland to adapt help.ubuntu.com VM recipe(s?) to use libvirt16:06
mdzACTION: zul to fix m2crypto test suite and ensure that MIR is processed16:06
mdzzul: ?16:07
zultestsuite deferred to lucid but its in main now16:07
mdzzul: is there a bug open to make sure we revisit the test suite for lucid?16:07
zulmdz: yes16:07
mdzzul:  let me know what the bug number is when you can pull it up16:08
mdzACTION: mathiaz to add test case for image store in testcases wiki16:08
mathiazmdz: not done yet.16:08
mdz[action] mathiaz to add test case for image store in testcases wiki16:08
MootBotACTION received:  mathiaz to add test case for image store in testcases wiki16:08
mdz[topic] Karmic RC (ttx)16:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Karmic RC (ttx)16:08
ttxACTION: zul to add missing server-ship packages to ubuntu-server16:09
ttxyou missed that one ^16:09
zulmdz: oh kees fixed it #45199816:09
zulttx/mdz: thats done as well16:09
mdzttx: oh, thanks16:09
ttxI wanted us to revisit the list of bugs targeted to release and current targets of opportunity (karmic-nominated bugs)16:10
mdzttx: urls?16:10
ttxI pulled up a list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus16:10
ttxsince some of them are of interest to us but not assigned to a team member16:10
=== fader_ is now known as fader|away
mdzbug 452665 is fixed, I believe16:11
ubottuLaunchpad bug 452665 in eucalyptus "eucalyptus-cloud runs without any option set" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45266516:11
mdzoh, they are listed as fixed ,NM16:11
ttxso jdstrand added a release-targeted bug, bug 45583216:11
ubottuLaunchpad bug 455832 in libvirt "segfault when attaching disk with same physical device" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45583216:11
mdzI had not seen 455832 before16:11
ttxits quite recent16:11
mdzah, just filed 17  hours ago16:11
ttxalso not assigned to anyone -- I was considering removing the milestone and keeping int as a target of opportunity16:12
ttxunless someone says its a release blocker16:12
mdzkirkland: is this related to bug 432154 or bug 419590?16:12
kirklandttx: i can attempt to reproduce that, and look at it, if it's release critical16:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 432154 in qemu "dynamic block device attach/detach not functional with karmic KVM" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43215416:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 419590 in qemu "kvm core dump on hotplug (pci_add)" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/41959016:12
mdzit is not marked as a regression16:12
kirklandmdz: possibly; the consensus from upstream was that dynamic block storage attach/detach are not heavily used or tested16:12
jdstrandthe attach/detach work16:13
kirklandmdz: given eucalyptus' dependency on that, it might be worth us investing some time/effort testing and developing this upstream16:13
mdzjdstrand: is it a regression?16:13
jdstrandthat is what I was testing, and I accidentally attached a device two times in a row with the same target dev16:13
jdstrandand it segfaulted16:13
jdstrandI did not test on jaunty, but I can16:13
smoserit is not a regression from jaunty16:13
mdzok, in that case I would not  consider it critical for karmic16:14
ttxif its avoidable in normal use, I would not keep it as a RC bug16:14
smoserit was at best random success there.16:14
mdzit likely doesn't affect eucalyptus16:14
mdzand it doesn't sound like a "normal" use case16:14
jdstrandI can say that anyone in the libvirtd group, or with qemu+ssh//<host>/system access can DoS libvirtd with this16:14
ttxmdz: should we still keep it as a karmic-nominated bug ?16:14
mdzttx: smoser and I discussed bug 451881. since it only affects UEC, and not EC2, it is not critical for karmic (though he will continue to investigate)16:15
ttxi.e. moving it to the next list ?16:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 451881 in ec2-init "ssh public key fingerprint not available on console in UEC environement" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45188116:15
jdstrandif a user or application misbehaves libvirtd goes down16:15
mdzttx: no, I suggest we wontfix it for karmic16:15
ttxthe "Other targeted bugs" should onnly contain bugs that we may want to fix before release16:15
ttxmdz ok16:16
mdzsoren: how serious is bug 410886?16:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 410886 in vm-builder "VMBuilder doesn't work with grub2" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/41088616:16
mdzit's marked High and assigned to cjwatson16:16
sorenmdz: Not at all anymore.16:16
ttx455832 and 451881 > wontfix for karmic16:16
mdzin fact he closed it in a grub2 upload16:17
mdzgrub2 (1.97~beta3-1ubuntu8) karmic; urgency=low16:17
mdz  [ Colin Watson ]16:17
mdz  * debian/control: Conflict with grub (<< 0.97-54) as well as grub-legacy16:17
mdz    (see LP #410886).16:17
mdzsoren: can it be closed, or is there still an issue here?16:17
cjwatsonno, that didn't close 41088616:17
mdzcjwatson: ah, I see16:17
sorenmdz: There's still an issue, but it's not critical anymore.16:17
cjwatsonthe vmbuilder package needs to have the patch from trunk merged into it, does it not?16:17
cjwatsondid that happen?16:17
sorenI thought it did. I can check up on it.16:17
cjwatsonthe patch> to make it use grub from the chroot rather than the host16:18
cjwatsonI saw a comment in the last few days suggesting it hadn't been16:18
* soren adds to TODO16:18
mdzsoren: TODO->post-karmic?16:18
mdzi.e. we can untarget this bug?16:18
cjwatsonit should be pre-karmic16:18
mdzmilestoned and assigned to soren16:18
cjwatsonassuming it's what I think it is, vm-builder only works if you have grub (1) installed in the host16:18
mdzbug 362511: OpenSSH force-command unable to pass arguments along to internal-sftp (cjwatson)16:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 362511 in openssh "force-command unable to pass arguments along to internal-sftp" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/36251116:19
cjwatsonI'd entirely forgotten about that bug, TBH; I don't think it's likely to happen for karmic, unless somebody thinks it's urgent enough to steal it16:19
mdzcjwatson: given this is marked Low, I'm assuming it's post-karmic now16:19
mdzthe next two eucalyptus bugs ttx and I already discussed16:19
ttxok, wontfixed for karmic16:19
mdznext is bug 45541116:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 455411 in qemu-kvm "Conffiles from kvm are left around on upgrade from Jaunty" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45541116:19
mdzkirkland: given that's Low, I'm assuming it's missed the cut now?16:20
kirklandmdz: ttx filed it, thought it was low, i didn't get to it yesterday16:20
ttxmdz: its low because its harmless to load the kvm module twice16:20
mdzttx: wontfix for karmic then16:21
mdz(waiting for LP)16:21
ttxmdz: i'll do it16:21
mdzbug 453495 is next16:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 453495 in virt-manager "virt-manager does not honor other architectures when using qemu" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45349516:21
ttxtaht's another recent one filed by jdstrabd16:21
ttxjdstrand, even16:21
kirklandthose other arches are in qemu-kvm-extras, in universe; very low priority, IMHO16:22
mdzjdstrand: I don't understand the problem from your description16:22
mdzoh, it's not selecting arm16:22
jdstrandmdz: if you use kvm, you can specify the arch, i686 or x86_6416:22
mdzagreed, this doesn't sound High and we can deal with it post-Karmic16:23
jdstrandmdz: when using qemu, you can specify the others in virt-manager, but the resulting VM is x86_6416:23
mdzbug 453453 is another jdstrand libvirt bug16:23
ubottuLaunchpad bug 453453 in libvirt "libvirt sometimes hangs when using pulseaudio" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45345316:23
jdstrand(I put it high for virt-manager, but realize it is universe)16:23
mdzjdstrand: right, I understand now, thanks16:23
ttxmdz: 453495 wontfix for karmic16:24
mdzjdstrand: given it doesn't affect primary functionality (only functionality used with a universe package), I think we should consider it lower importance16:24
jdstrandsure. I am not suggesting it take priority over other items16:24
mdzjdstrand: you marked this a regression; when did it last work?16:24
jdstrandmdz: I am almost sure it worked in jaunty, but I didn't test it recently16:25
jdstrand(we are still talking about 453495, right?)16:25
jdstrandmdz: I can retest it16:25
jdstrand(on jaunty(16:25
mdzjdstrand: (yes)16:25
mdzbut now we need to talk about 45345316:26
kirklandsounds support has come and gone, come and gone in karmic16:26
mdzthis is Medium, which I agree with; not sure why it's targeted to Karmic though16:26
mdzoh, because it's a regression16:26
mdzjdstrand: er, yes, my last question was about 453453, not 45349516:26
kirklandi have verified that sound works when running kvm from the command line16:26
kirklandbut not when through libvirt16:26
jdstrandactually, I see it work in libvirt too16:27
mdzkirkland: when run through libvirt, does sound just not work, or does it make the VM unusable?16:27
jdstrandI think it is highly dependent on what is going on in the host as to whether or not it hangs the guest when initializing the sound device or if there is sound at all in the guest16:27
kirklandmdz: i saw the hang jdstrand mentions for the first time on Friday16:27
kirklandmdz: it's a race or something; non-deterministic failure16:27
jdstrandI agree with kirkland's assessment16:28
* kirkland borrowed jdstrand's assessment, probably :-)16:28
mdzkirkland: if it's come and gone, was there an earlier bug report about it?16:28
jdstrandprobably why it sounded *so right* ;)16:28
kirklandmdz: no16:29
mdzat this point it doesn't seem realistic to do anything about this bug for 9.10, though we could consider it for SRU16:29
mdzkirkland: your call; please either milestone for karmic-updates or wontfix for karmic16:29
mdzneed to keep moving16:29
mdzbug 45346716:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 453467 in virt-manager "virt-manager traceback if select an architecture on VM creation" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45346716:29
kirklandmdz: sound issues in VM's are *extremely* low priority, for me16:29
mdzthis is Low16:30
mdzthis seems related to the other bug, selecting an architecture16:30
mdzdoesn't seem 9.10-critical to me16:30
mdzbug 40794916:31
ttxmdz: agreed, wontfixing for karmic as well16:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 407949 in ec2-init "ec2-init: ec2-set-defaults needs better defaults for non US/EU regions" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40794916:31
jdstrandmdz: that may be true, but I think it is more a gui failure in virt-manager, though I haven't looked at it too closely16:31
smoseri just pushed  a branch with a suggested fix.16:32
smoserits very trivial, just catch the error and fall back.16:32
smoserrather than not catching error and failing with python trace16:32
mdzsmoser: does it cause the UEC images to fail to initialize correctly?16:32
ttxsmoser: that would involve a UEC/EC2 image respin, but not an ISO respin, right16:32
mdzttx: correct16:33
=== bdmurray_ is now known as bdmurray
smoserit does cause UEC images to fail to initialize correctly.  They do not get locale set.16:33
smoseri believe that they still have a functional /etc/apt/sources.list though.16:33
mdzsmoser: ok, milestoned for 9.1016:34
* Daviey noticed user-data not working as expected yesterday in ec2.16:34
ttxI propose we skip the UEC/EC2 release process discussion and do it after meeting with smoser16:34
ttxmdz: Test coverage ?16:34
mdzttx: yes, I emailed you with some notes about this16:34
soren"Test coverage"?16:35
mdzISO testing16:35
ttxSome server-related tests in the ISO tracker are not covered by a team member16:35
mdzthe list of deliverables which need testing is at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntuserver/all16:35
mdzdon't worry about ARM for the moment16:35
mdzthe main gaps are:16:36
mdz1. netboot16:36
mdz2. upgrades16:36
mdzwho has a setup where they can test netboot installations?16:36
mdzthis is fastest with a local mirror, but can be done over the Internet as well with a netboot setup16:36
Davieymdz: \o16:37
kirklandmdz: o/16:37
mdzDaviey: kirkland: thanks for stepping up16:37
ttxI can do upgrade testing, though the test contents are undefined right now16:37
davmor2mdz: I'm just finishing the netboot's16:37
mdzupgrade testing is fairly straightforward and can be done in a VM16:37
mdzttx: yes, we need to get a test case written16:37
zulill do that one16:37
davmor2mdz: at least for i386 and amd 6416:38
mdzzul: can you write up a test case which is equivalent to the desktop one, but for a server install?16:38
zulmdz: sure16:38
mdzdavmor2: great16:38
mdz[action] zul to write up server upgrade test case16:38
MootBotACTION received:  zul to write up server upgrade test case16:38
mdzttx: ok to move on?16:38
mdz[topic] Review progress made on the Roadmap:16:39
MootBotNew Topic:  Review progress made on the Roadmap:16:39
mdz[topic] eucalyptus status16:39
MootBotNew Topic:  eucalyptus status16:39
ttxI have a few eucalyptus bugs I wanted to bring up16:39
mdzkirkland, ttx?16:39
kirklandmdz: well, we've continued to improve16:39
ttxcurrent status is: we might still try to fix bug 455816 but its unlikely16:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 455816 in eucalyptus "When installing a UEC cluster, the prompt for the private interface is displayed after the "Installation complete" dialog" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45581616:40
ttxand we would fix bug 453456 if log rotation isn't functional16:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 453456 in eucalyptus "excessive logs in /var/log/eucalyptus" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45345616:40
mdzttx: 453456->can be fixed in SRU16:40
ttxwe would fix bug 455293 only if something else gets fixed16:40
mathiazttx: I plan to test cjwatson branch for bug 455816 today16:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 455293 in eucalyptus "UEC management interface still has Eucalyptus as title" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45529316:40
kirklandmdz: i think we fixed ~36 bugs in 9 uploads last week16:40
mdzyes, there was a lot of great work done last week while I was away16:41
ttxI'm slightly worried by bug 455625, if its confirmed16:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 455625 in eucalyptus "Eucalyptus Loses Public IP Address" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45562516:41
ttxand also note that I hit systematically bug 452556 and bug 444352 in my ISO testing16:41
ttxwhich means we might need to release-note them16:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 452556 in eucalyptus "euca-authorize default failing" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45255616:41
ubottuError: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/444352)16:41
ttxespecially if other testers hit those as well.16:42
nurmittx: We're going to be looking into 455625 asap16:42
ttxnurmi: it's a little... long to reproduce16:42
nurmittx: 452556 is confirmed, we're working on a fix16:42
mdznurmi: thanks, that would be a great help16:42
jsalisburyttx: I am going to try reducing the lease time to try and reproduce quicker16:42
ttxnurmi: also please comment on bug 453456 with a pointer on where the log rotation is implemented in code16:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 453456 in eucalyptus "excessive logs in /var/log/eucalyptus" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45345616:43
mdzttx: is 452556 9.10 critical?16:43
mathiaznurmi: IIUC guests don't know about their public IPs?16:43
ttxmdz: no. It's quite easy to workaround16:43
nurmijaslisbury: the public addresses are not handed out by DHCP16:43
nurmimathiaz: that is correct16:43
mathiaznurmi: right - that's what I though16:43
mdz[action] nurmi to investigate bug 45562516:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 455625 in eucalyptus "Eucalyptus Loses Public IP Address" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45562516:43
MootBotACTION received:  nurmi to investigate bug 45562516:43
ttxmdz: but could be release note material if systematic16:43
ttxthat's all from me on Eucalyptus16:44
kirklandnurmi: mdz: I think we're going to need to author some comprehensive documentation on the ip address handling in UEC16:44
mdzttx: agreed, please open an ubuntu-release-notes task on it16:44
kirklandit's complex16:44
mdzkirkland: ok, I see you have documentation on the agenda later16:44
mdzttx: can we move on from eucalyptus?16:44
mdz[topic] UEC images (smoser)16:44
MootBotNew Topic:  UEC images (smoser)16:44
mdzI looked at this with smoser yesterday, and we looked to be in good shape16:45
mdz[link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=uec-images16:45
MootBotLINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=uec-images16:45
smoseronly issue open is the locale on UEC16:45
smosers/open/known and to-be-fixed/16:45
mdzwhich we already discussed16:45
mdz[topic] EC2 images (smoser)16:45
MootBotNew Topic:  EC2 images (smoser)16:45
mdz[link] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ec2-images16:45
MootBotLINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ec2-images16:45
mdzalso reviewed yesterday, also judged OK for 9.1016:46
mdzsmoser: any changes?16:46
mdz[topic] Reference UEC appliance (soren)16:46
MootBotNew Topic:  Reference UEC appliance (soren)16:46
mdzsoren: I tried to get some help on this while we were on holiday last week, but it got dropped, so there hasn't been progress since you left16:47
mdzsoren: what remains to be done on getting a demo appliance ready to ship?16:47
mdzsoren: hello?16:48
mdzttx: do you know soren's status on this?16:48
ttxmdz: no. he is working on it though, has asked questions about EBS support16:48
kirklandmdz: i asked him about it this morning; he said it's "on track" for release16:48
kirklandmdz: he said there wasn't progress besides what he's posted on ubuntu-devel@16:49
mdzttx: the "demo" shouldn't require EBS; we should get the demo completed and then work on a persistent one16:49
sorenSorry, my wifi dropped for a minute.16:49
sorenThe demo will very closely resemble what I posted the week before last.16:50
sorenI'm getting the build of it cleaned up, but I'm having a weird problem with mysql.16:50
mdzsoren: can it be ready by Thursday?16:50
sorenI'm working on it.16:50
sorenThe completely unpersistent one, yes.16:50
ttxon the appliance store side, who tested that ?16:50
mdz[action] soren to complete demo virtual appliance16:51
MootBotACTION received:  soren to complete demo virtual appliance16:51
mdz[topic] UEC appliance store (niemeyer)16:51
MootBotNew Topic:  UEC appliance store (niemeyer)16:51
mdzGustavo is on leave I think16:51
kirklandttx: mathiaz tested the appliance store when he was here in Austin16:51
ttxmathiaz: did you test it since it was fixed ?16:51
mdzkirkland: mathiaz tested the eucalyptus interaction with the "fake" test store16:51
mdzI'm not sure if it has been validated against the production store yet16:51
nurmittx: I tested a bit shortly after austin, with the fake store as well16:51
kirklandmdz: right, sorry16:51
mdzsomeone needs to do that ASAP16:51
mathiazmdz: nope - not validated against the production server16:51
mathiazgustavo is on vacation today - so I don't know what's the state of the server side16:52
ttxis that production server up already ?16:52
mdzttx: so I've heard16:52
mathiazand a appliance is actually needed to do the complete testing16:52
mdz[action] mdz to chase down details on production image store16:52
MootBotACTION received:  mdz to chase down details on production image store16:52
mdz[action] mathiaz to test UEC integration with production image store16:52
MootBotACTION received:  mathiaz to test UEC integration with production image store16:52
sorenThe standard UEC image should be the first appliance, shouldn't it?16:52
mdzsoren: we can use a "blank" 9.10 appliance as well, for test purposes16:53
sorenI mean... that's clearly the most obvious way to publish that.16:53
mathiazsoren: I'd thought so16:53
mdzmathiaz: so we shouldn't need to block on soren16:53
mathiazmdz: agreed.16:53
mdzthe stock 9.10 UEC image should be able to go in the store16:53
mdz[topic] UEC documentation (kirkland)16:53
MootBotNew Topic:  UEC documentation (kirkland)16:53
mdz    *16:53
mdz      What needs to be documented, where, and by whom? How can you help? (DustinKirkland)16:53
kirkland> [1] http://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEC16:53
kirkland> [2] http://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEC/PackageInstall16:53
kirklandthose are two links to documentation16:53
ttx[1] is in reasonably good shape16:53
kirklandwe also have testcases in the iso testing wiki16:54
ttx[2] needs a lot of work16:54
kirklandthese materials need to converge on something we can point UEC users to16:54
kirklandi'm willing and able to help whip those into shape16:54
ttxI recently removed the "wrong" instructions from [2] (bundle your running kernel with UEC images)16:54
nurmikirkland: i can help as well16:54
kirklandbut I'm proposing that there are more people here that can help enhance that16:54
* kirkland high fives nurmi16:54
mdzthanks, nurmi16:54
kirklandanyone else?16:54
kirklandttx?  mathiaz?16:55
ttxkirkland: count me in16:55
kirklandshall we split the responsibilities?16:55
mdzkirkland: what kind of help is needed? I'm sure there are plenty of people who can read and edit for clarity, but fewer who can actually run through an end-to-end test16:55
mathiazkirkland: I can review the PackageInstall doc16:55
ttxthough I don't have the necessary hw to tset multicomponent, I can test the "by package" install16:55
kirklandor just let it grow organically?16:55
mathiazkirkland: as this is what I'm mostly doing in my installs16:55
kirklandmdz: i've been driving my installs from the testcases wiki ... i was thinking of shifting to drive my installs from the documentation16:56
ttxI think [2] should be split between two scenarios, multicomponent and multicluster16:56
kirklandmdz: once we all started working from the test cases wiki, it really improved dramatically16:56
kirklandi think something along these lines will help16:56
kirklandbut with more focus on explanation16:57
kirklandrather than copy-n-paste commands16:57
mdzkirkland: it would make sense to have one set of setup instructions, and just reference that16:57
* mathiaz thinks testcases and documentation should be merged at some point in the future16:57
kirklandmdz: of course16:57
ttxmathiaz: the testcase is script-oriented, the doc is human-readability-oriented16:57
kirklandokay, so we first agree on a format16:58
mathiazttx: I have an idea about that - but right now is not the time to discuss it ;)16:58
ttxI tried to avoid obscure script combos in [1]16:58
ttxyes, lets take this off-meeting16:58
mdzok, we are almost out of time, can we close on documentation?16:58
kirklandmdz: yes, i think we have some volunteers now16:58
mdzthere is one to-be-assigned bug: bug 45587316:58
ttxkirkland, mathiaz: email, ubuntu-cloud or ubuntu-server ML ?16:58
ubottuError: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/455873)16:58
mdzbug 45587316:58
kirklandttx: ubuntu-server, i suggest16:58
* mathiaz agrees16:59
ttxkirkland: you start it, you choose16:59
ubottuError: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/455873)16:59
kirklandttx: okay16:59
ttxmdz: I think zul proposed to take it16:59
mdzit's "mod_proxy causes duplicate query strings when nocanon option is used"16:59
ttxif that's the one I think it is16:59
zulyeah I did16:59
mdzon apache216:59
mdzok, assigned16:59
mdzI assume it is not 9.10-critical16:59
zulits for hardy17:00
mathiazmdz: nope - fixed in karmic17:00
ttxzul: prio 217:00
mdzplease update the bug to reflect that it's 8.0417:00
ScottKJust to toss in a clamav update: clamav 0.95.3 will likely be released on Monday, so it'll go to -proposed.  i hope to have some post-RC packaging fixes though.17:00
mdzmathiaz: can we skip the SRU review?17:00
mathiazmdz: sure17:00
mdz[topic] AOB17:00
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB17:00
mdzScottK: ok, thanks17:01
mdzanything else?17:01
mdzok, looks like we are in pretty good shape overall. thanks, all17:01
MootBotMeeting finished at 11:01.17:01
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jcastronurmi: ping!17:25
jcastronurmi: I need a response to my mail wrt UDS17:26
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nurmijcastro: sent via email, apologies for the delay18:16
jcastronurmi: no worries18:17
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