[10:32] <AnAnt> Hello, the network manager connecting icons in Humanity icon theme do not differentiate between the several stages in connection
[10:33] <AnAnt> the default icons in Network Manager do make the differentiation, hence aid in debugging a connectivity problem
[11:28] <coz_> hey guys... please tell me that no one here is responsible for the karmic desing especially the boot splash screens
[12:07] <thorwil> coz_: independent of an evaluation of the boot design, a comment as your's doesn't help in any way. it can only increase frustration. worst of all, it's not even one bit entertaining.
[12:08] <coz_> thorwil,  I wasnt trying to be entertaining at all..just curious  ...I am on the art team but have not done anything  for some time
[12:08] <coz_> thorwil,  and the images used for these splashes  are inconsitent with the colors in ubuntu
[12:09] <coz_> I realize there have been changes in gnome or at least gnome on ubuntu   by eliminating  gdm changes
[12:10] <thorwil> coz_: suddenly you are heading in a direction where one might find constructive criticism. however, the karmic case is closed. changes pretty much impossible
[12:12] <coz_> thorwil,  understood  and I am certain I will find a way to change the splash screens here... however you suggestion that my comments "can only increase frustration"  is a bit out of line
[12:12] <coz_> thorwil,  it was ...after all... a question to see if the team was responisble for the splash screen images
[12:14] <thorwil> coz_: that's not the question you asked. i'm not interested to play games with you if you can't remember your words 7 lines later
[12:15] <coz_> thorwil,  ok unfortunaely..without a further explanation of your comments  ...I dont think you and I can communicate properly
[12:16] <thorwil> "12:28:18 <coz_>	hey guys... please tell me that no one here is responsible for the karmic desing especially the boot splash screens"
[12:17] <coz_> thorwil,  I already know what I said... to believe that  someone on the team created those images is much more of a frustration than my question could possibly elicit
[12:18] <thorwil> coz_: so you imply that the work is bad without giving any details why you think so. hence frustration
[12:18] <coz_> although it wouldnt surprise me that shuttleworth made an independent decision about the images
[12:18] <coz_> thorwil,  they are inconsistent with ubuntu colors  and imply that the system theme is going to be a dark muddy color
[12:19] <thorwil> coz_: i wouldn't have complained if you said just that
[12:19] <coz_> I did
[12:20] <coz_> thorwil,  and the images used for these splashes  are inconsitent with the colors in ubuntu
[12:20] <coz_> I said that earlier
[12:20] <coz_> however I also know that in the past the efforts of the team were ignored by shuttleworth
[12:21] <coz_> so I was just curious as to who had made the final decision about the art work for splash
[12:22] <thorwil> ah, there we have it. a question without judgment
[12:23] <thorwil> coz_: from what i read on lists, Mark still signs off all design decisions, but wants to hand that responsibility over to someone from the team at Canonical
[12:23] <coz_> glad I could please  but what about an answer ? :)
[12:26]  * darkmatter yawns sleepily at gtk+
[12:34] <coz_> thorwil,  oh man that is not good news
[12:36] <darkmatter> design decisions should be left to designers :)
[12:37] <coz_> darkmatter, absolutely :)
[12:37] <coz_> darkmatter,  hey guy   how are you :)
[12:38]  * darkmatter gently pats coz_ hello
[12:38] <coz_> :)
[12:38] <coz_> darkmatter,  still the same old story about developers thinking they can design images  lol
[12:38] <darkmatter> not bad. been sleeping when I should be working, working when I should be sleeping. the usual ;)
[12:38] <darkmatter> how have you been?
[12:39] <coz_> darkmatter,  same old...doing much more support than I can handle sometimes...I am not on the cairo dock team so that takes more time and my car had broken down again
[12:39] <coz_> darkmatter, not to mention my video card blew two capacitors  takeint one monitor and 1 gig of memory along with it
[12:40] <coz_> darkmatter,  rathe I am on the cairo-dock team now
[12:40] <darkmatter> coz_: speaking of design. I'm sorta kinda collaborating on something (as in got the initial mockup sources and the rest is in my hand (filling in the gaps, making it 'work')
[12:40] <coz_> damn fingers
[12:40] <darkmatter> cool
[12:40] <coz_> darkmatter,  cool  I assume you finsished those gtk2 themes right?
[12:41] <coz_> darkmatter,  we havent talked for a while so I just want to be up to date with your efforts :)
[12:41] <darkmatter> coz_: sorta. thing went a little of course for a while. atm I'm working on breathing life into one of jimmacs designs
[12:41] <coz_> darkmatter,  ah cool
[12:42] <darkmatter> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/images/blog/cessna.png
[12:43] <coz_> darkmatter,  ooo nice and simple and clear I like it :)
[12:43] <coz_> darkmatter,  is that available right now?  for testing?
[12:43] <zniavre> yeaahh rounded menu aare lovely
[12:44] <zniavre> :o)  bonjour / hello
[12:44] <darkmatter> filled in the gaps for the missing widgets on paper. this weekend I'm starting on the gtk work (murrine/pixbuf)
[12:44] <coz_> zniavre,  hey guy :)
[12:44] <coz_> darkmatter,  very very cool
[12:44] <coz_> darkmatter,  will that theme have color variations?
[12:45] <darkmatter> coz_: nah.. just got the source svg from jimmac two days ago, been designing the missing bits to 'fit' with the existing file
[12:45] <coz_> darkmatter,  oh ok darn :)
[12:46] <darkmatter> coz_: for the most part it should be possible. first on the hitlist is the scrollbars. a lot of overlays to get the stripes going
[12:46] <coz_> darkmatter,  ok
[12:46] <coz_> cool
[12:46] <coz_> darkmatter,  I certainly like the focused and unfocused variations there
[12:47] <darkmatter> I could easily do recolorable with murrine/experience, but I don't think actualpackages for experience are that common (haven't really seen any), plus no distro has it by default iirc
[12:48] <coz_> darkmatter,  well  I could go in and edit it manually although that color blue is not too offensive :)
[12:48] <darkmatter> pixbuf handles recolors to an extent, just not as efficiently imo
[12:49] <coz_> darkmatter,  well this theme ,,,in my opinion is very attractive
[12:49] <darkmatter> lus experience would help add some character. you can place multiple image overlays anywhere on a widget with it. so could make for some awesome looking entries etc
[12:50] <coz_> darkmatter,  are you here more often now?
[12:50] <darkmatter> coz_: indeed. which is why I got the sources from jimmac. it's gnomish but modern (instead of the traditional gnomish/win95 :P)
[12:50] <darkmatter> coz_: yeah. almost every morning
[12:50] <coz_> darkmatter,  exactly .. I find the lines  very nice in that theme
[12:51] <coz_> darkmatter,  cool  I will have to  set xchat to open this channel automatically then :)
[12:52] <darkmatter> plus it's a nice soft, slightly warmish grey (I find the grey in clearlooks a little cool/harsh btw)
[12:52] <coz_> darkmatter,  I agree  but then  you knew that lol
[12:52] <darkmatter> lol
[12:52] <coz_> darkmatter,  some day we will prvail  and prevent developers from choosing artwork lol
[12:53] <darkmatter> hehe
[12:53] <coz_> darkmatter,  although that may take more effort when it comes to ubuntu.... this team should have final word in the choosing artwork
[12:54] <darkmatter> going to do a blue variant of the sonar icons to go with it (sonar is basically a high res industrial based on single-canvas git, but green in the monitors etc instead of blue)
[12:55] <coz_> darkmatter,  well icons are another issue with me.... I have had the same set for nearly a year now and have not found anything as nice for my use  it is the elementary set but the 1.5 version not the 2.0  since that guy completely reivised the set  as to appear as another theme
[12:55] <coz_> instead of being consistent
[12:58] <darkmatter> coz_: I generally like the  approach suse takes. submit > review > if it well received its in. it's still 'by committee' but its better than totalitarian decision making :)
[12:59] <coz_> darkmatter,  well ...that certainly sounds more appropriate for linux in general
[13:01] <darkmatter> coz_: I like these icons. http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4521/screenshotoh.png   http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3046/screenshot3mj.png
[13:03] <coz_> darkmatter,  nice... I generally dont like "face on" icons but the slight color variation on those are attractive
[13:06] <darkmatter> coz_: evolution of the tango style. I'm actually quite pleased by the changes
[13:07] <coz_> darkmatter,  mm I will have to take a closer look... I think you know I am not a big fan of tango :)
[13:09] <zniavre> please tell if i m right: i do not like the switch Off button used in gdm (white on white selected bg) is that "normal" ?
[13:09] <darkmatter> coz_: well... I'm not a big fan of the style (and obviously tango is still present (it should be inherits gnome, but I did an edit because the green goes better :P), but the revisions present in g-i-t and sonar are making it grow on me
[13:10] <coz_> I have to take leave for a few hours to get the car fixed...
[13:10] <coz_> darkmatter,   will be back around pm I think
[13:10] <darkmatter> kk. take care :)
[13:11] <coz_> you too :)
[13:27] <mac_v> darkmatter: what is the widget_class for open office apps? i'd trying to finish a dark theme
[13:27] <mac_v> ?
[13:28] <darkmatter> mac_v: ummm... sec. I can't remember offhand
[13:29] <mac_v> any very dark color causes the open office icons to switch to hicontrast icons :/
[13:30] <darkmatter> nope... thats inkscape widgets... *digs through another file*
[13:30] <mac_v> is there any app which can help us identify the widget_class in use?
[13:31] <darkmatter> err.... I know of an 'engine' that can, not sure about an app
[13:33] <mac_v> darkmatter: engine? i dont mind which does the job ;) ... anything that might help identify the widgets ;)
[13:34] <darkmatter> sec. grabbing the linky to the 'how to find crap' part
[13:36] <darkmatter> mac_v: http://benjamin.sipsolutions.net/Projects/eXperience
[13:36] <darkmatter> quote: "If you set the enviroment variable EXPERIENCE_PRINT_WIDGET_PATH=TRUE the engine will print out all drawing operations to stderr (Loads of output). It prints out the class (and widget) path of the widget that is drawn, and the group used to do this. This is very usefull for tweaking apps. "
[13:40] <mac_v> darkmatter: hm... sounds awesome , now i have to figure out how it works and stuff ;)
[13:40] <darkmatter> hehe. it's neat. still learning it
[13:50] <zniavre> darkmatter, sorry to ask but where is the output of experience engine please?
[13:52] <zniavre> ha ok
[13:53] <zniavre> understand
[13:53] <mac_v> zniavre: which version are you using??
[13:53] <mac_v> the experimental or... ?
[13:54] <zniavre> experimental yes
[13:54] <zniavre> the one from debian repos
[13:55] <mac_v> ah ...
[13:55]  * mac_v still scratching head :/
[13:57] <zniavre> EXPERIENCE_PRINT_WIDGET_PATH=TRUE twf  for exemple
[13:58] <zniavre> http://art.gnome.org/themes/gtk2/1058    here an experience theme (olive)
[13:58] <zniavre> what is sad i wanted it to find a widget into gdm panel but i do not find the way to use it
[14:01] <darkmatter> zniavre: i t prints to stderr, you need run the app with the engine in use from a terminal. it will print the data to the terminal
[14:01] <darkmatter> as for gdm. which widget?
[14:02] <zniavre> the "combobox" in panel
[14:03] <mac_v> darkmatter: the  "EXPERIENCE_PRINT_WIDGET_PATH=TRUE" must be set in the theme?
[14:04] <mac_v> gtkrc or is it part of the app launcher command
[14:04] <zniavre> open terminal and type > EXPERIENCE_PRINT_WIDGET_PATH=TRUE twf
[14:04] <zniavre> if you got widget factory
[14:06] <zniavre> (sorry to answer)
[14:07] <mac_v> zniavre: hmm? why sorry?
[14:07] <darkmatter> those are slaved to gdm panel itself (for color etc). so as far as colors they're set by either  "*GdmGreeterPanel*" or widget "*gdm-user-switch-menubar*" (at least thats the only two I know of currently. both are panel classes in gdm)
[14:08] <darkmatter> widget "*GdmGreeterPanel*"  <-- typo fixed :P
[14:10] <zniavre> how did you  find it please?
[14:10] <zniavre> using experience ?
[14:11]  * mac_v kicks his connection , crappy speed :/
[14:11] <darkmatter> nope. they're from the latest revision of Sonar (openSUSE's default)
[15:12] <mac_v> darkmatter: ah! finally figured out how to use it..! but it seems the ooo uses the "GtkToolbar" argh!