[02:36] <crypt-0> hi
[02:37] <crypt-0> im having trouble with wxpython.
[02:37] <crypt-0> it is well beyond the #ubuntu help channel.
[03:28] <directhex> it's official: the only Ubuntu release whose Mono footprint is smaller than Karmic, was Edgy
[03:29] <cody-somerville> is this.... good?
[03:30] <directhex> cody-somerville, well, tomboy/f-spot take up 12 meg less room on karmic than intrepid
[03:30] <directhex> and slangasek tends to like megs
[03:30] <cody-somerville> :]
[03:32] <Sp3c1alK> what's a good, current, website that walks through writing a driver for ubuntu?
[03:37] <directhex> Sp3c1alK, what kind of driver?
[03:38] <Sp3c1alK> networking, TCP/IP
[03:38] <directhex> yeesh, that'll be kernel then
[03:39] <directhex> there's nothing specific to ubuntu. you want something on kernel drivers - and network drivers specifically
[03:39] <slangasek> ccheney: why did -human drop from a Depends to a Recommends of -gtk?
[03:39] <Sp3c1alK> oh boy, I better test in a vmware machine then, heh
[04:07] <wgrant> Is anybody else seeing the Examples desktop icon in Karmic RC as just a white page?
[04:14] <StevenK> wgrant: I heard seb mention that, but I'm not sure if there is a bug
[04:17] <robert_ancell> slangasek, can you look at the updates in bug 437167, bug 458709 and bug 458713 for Karmic?
[05:08] <ccheney> slangasek: followed the debian packaging convention, did it cause a problem for the seed? recommends are autoinstalled (aiui) and so should get pulled in anyway and its not a strict dependency of the -gtk package just should be there (eg more a recommends association)
[05:08] <ccheney> slangasek: convention wrt debian packaging moving its tango dep to recommends in the past update
[05:09] <slangasek> ccheney: "following convention" is not a good reason for a post-RC change
[05:09] <ccheney> anyone know what happened to approx wrt its startup mechanism it seems to be missing its initscript
[05:10] <ccheney> slangasek: did it actually change what is installed we automatically install all recommends at install time (right?) so its not a effective change?
[05:10] <slangasek> ccheney: no, it doesn't change the automatic install, but it's still superfluous :)
[05:10] <ccheney> ok :)
[05:10]  * ccheney was hoping he didn't uncover more apt bugs
[05:11] <ccheney> already hit one of those recently, heh
[05:11] <ccheney> apparently apt had issues coping with one of my pre-depends
[05:11] <snap-l> I'm not sure if I've hit a but with the postgresql upgrade. Would like a small hand to sort it out, if possible.
[05:11] <snap-l> Having trouble logging into postgresql after upgrading to Karmic. I know there's a debconf message that needs to be followed, but I didn't get all of the info. Is there a way to get that info after the fact?
[05:12] <snap-l> I don't think the upgrade from 8.3 to 8.4 happened.
[05:12] <ccheney> hmm approx runs under inetd now
[05:16] <crypt-0> does Karmic? have better SMP support?
[05:20] <ccheney> does inetd not listen on localhost by default?
[05:22] <virtuald> crypt-0: Karmic supports 4096 cpu's
[05:22] <ccheney> hmm even using the external ip doesn't work
[05:23] <ccheney> does inetd even work on karmic?
[05:24]  * ccheney thinks it isn't installed or something
[05:26]  * ccheney wonders how that works with packages needing inetd but not depending on any and none being installed by default
[05:26] <ccheney> hmm nm it is installed
[05:27] <ccheney> it seems it needed to be restarted
[05:27]  * ccheney wonders why it wasn't running already though
[05:34] <directhex> virtuald, thinking about it, why? there's no SSI hardware with that core count
[05:41] <wgrant> snap-l: IIRC it will have installed a new 8.4 cluster, on 5433
[05:41] <wgrant> Leaving the 8.3 cluster intact on 5432.
[05:42] <snap-l> wgrant: OK, so how do I get the data from 8.3 to 8.4?
[05:42] <snap-l> The instructions were displayed at a time when I couldn't really follow them. :)
[05:43] <wgrant> IIRC pg_upgradecluster is what you want.
[05:43] <wgrant> But I haven't done it in a long while...
[05:43] <snap-l> sudo pg_upgradecluster 8.3 main
[05:43] <snap-l> Error: could not get cluster default encoding
[05:48] <wgrant> snap-l: The debconf prompt suggests that you will need to drop the 8.4/main cluster first.
[05:48] <snap-l> There's no default encoding set, afaict.
[05:48] <wgrant> But I don't know about that error.
[05:48] <wgrant> And it is offtopic for here.
[05:48] <snap-l> no worries.
[05:48] <snap-l> Thanks
[05:51] <crypt-0> (4096) i plan on 1 quad core :)
[07:28] <pitti> Good morning
[08:09] <pitti> ArneGoetje: can you please mark http://launchpadlibrarian.net/34200734/ubuntu-karmic-translations.tar.gz (the 20091023 export) as "current" in LP? it still says that the 20091008 one is current (which is even older than what we really have)
[08:21] <pitti> dpm: good morning
[08:21] <pitti> dpm: can you please mark http://launchpadlibrarian.net/34200734/ubuntu-karmic-translations.tar.gz (the 20091023 export) as "current" in LP? it still says that the 20091008 one is current (which is even older than what we really have)
[08:23] <dpm> heya pitti, good morning. Let me have a look. Normally Arne takes care of this, so I just have to find out how to do it
[08:24] <pitti> dpm: ah, don't worry; we can also wait for Arne
[08:25] <evand> dpm: Just a heads up.  I've uploaded ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu with the translations update, per bug 452889.
[08:26] <dpm> evand, yes, I've seen it, thanks a lot!. I didn't remind you yesterday because I saw that (Lithuanian?) user already did.
[08:28] <dpm> pitti, I'll try to find out, so at least I know how it goes. I'll just have to wait for the rosetta guys or Arne to turn up and ask them
[08:28] <pitti> dpm: new packs are building now
[08:28] <dpm> pitti, ah, brilliant
[08:36] <mdke> dpm: on the Dutch issue, I hope you sorted it out - I think it is the same chap who filed a bug about it so he should have got the answer by now
[08:37] <mdke> dpm: now that translated xml is stripped into the langpacks, he'll need to wait for those before the translations appear
[08:37] <dpm> mdke, hi, thanks for coming back to me. I think we sorted it out, but it's pending on the next language packs to be built and released before we can check it out
[08:37] <mdke> right
[08:37] <dpm> mdke, yes :-)
[08:38] <dpm> mdke, Martin tells me that they are building now
[08:38] <mdke> awesome
[08:47] <ion> Shipit problems? It appears i’ve been sent a jaunty CD, even though i ordered a karmic one. #  1 CDs requested on 2009-10-16. 1 CDs were approved and sent to the shipping company on 2009-10-20. Please note requests usually take from 4 to 6 weeks to deliver, depending on the country of shipping.
[08:54] <wgrant> ion: ShipIt likes to lie like that. I believe it means that the order has been approved and sent off.
[08:55] <ion> wgrant: Alright, thanks
[08:58] <jussi01> wgrant: you can order karmic cd's already? o.O
[08:59] <wgrant> jussi01: For a few days now.
[08:59] <wgrant> As usual.
[08:59] <jussi01> wgrant: heh... shows how much I know... :D
[08:59] <debfx> pitti: in hal-info there is a patch with the decription "Some Thinkpads have ACPI brightness controls ..." but it is much more generic as it checks for the existence of /sys/devices/virtual/backlight/acpi_video*
[09:00] <debfx> is that intended?
[09:33] <pitti> debfx: I'm not sure; that patch is ancient, and I didn't do it
[10:04] <pitti> evand: does ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu get translations stripped? or are they retained in the package? (langpack export is already done, and langpacks are building)
[10:05] <evand> pitti: retained
[10:05] <pitti> evand: great
[10:05]  * pitti accepts
[10:06] <lool> mvo: Hey there
[10:06] <lool> mvo: I have an odd APT bug which I'm seeing right now
[10:06] <lool> mvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/299650/
[10:07] <lool> mvo: Some sort of infinite loop where it gets the Release file over and over again
[10:07] <lool> mvo: I think the server doesn't support if-modified-since/last-modified properly so it could be what causes the issue, but the mirror has been working fine in the last weeks, not sure why it would start doing that now
[10:09] <debfx> pitti: could you consider adding my patch from bug #415023 to hal-info, it doesn't seem to fix the issue for gnome-power-manager but works with kde powerdevil
[10:09] <YokoZar> what is iwlagn and why is it at 100% cpu
[10:10] <pitti> debfx: please assign to "pitti"
[10:10] <pitti> debfx: probably not for karmic final any more, but it could become an SRU
[10:15] <mvo> lool: let me have a look - is that reproducable if you run it again? if so, you could you please run it with "-o Debug::acquire::http=true" ?
[10:15] <mvo> lool: and maybe -o Debug::pkgAcquire=true ?
[10:15] <lool> mvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/299653/
[10:16] <lool> mvo: Hmm I connected to t
[10:16] <lool> I connected to the server and I see a disk has failed
[10:16] <lool> lighttpd reports things like 2009-10-23 11:16:14: (network_linux_sendfile.c.172) sendfile failed: Input/output error 7
[10:16] <lool> 2009-10-23 11:16:14: (connections.c.615) connection closed: write failed on fd 7
[10:16] <lool> mvo: So prob\
[10:16] <lool> So probably not worth chasing
[10:17] <mvo> lool: well, still a bug in the apt code to try this over and over again, is that the full http debug log?
[10:18] <lool> mvo: No it repeats over and over
[10:19] <mvo> exactly the same ? i.e. no other code than 200 OK ?
[10:19] <lool> mvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/299656/
[10:20] <lool> mvo: that's all I see
[10:20] <mvo> lool: thanks! let me check the code
[10:31] <lool> mvo: It looks like APT just processes this gently
[10:32] <mvo> lool: yeah, it seems like the server is sending it over and over again
[10:33] <james_w> http://bruynooghe.blogspot.com/2009/10/no-permission-to-see-ubuntu-bugs.html <- points out that the release notes point to bug 354126 about the hibernation issue, but it is a private bug report
[10:33] <james_w> is that a typo in the bug number perhaps?
[10:38] <lool> mvo: I took a trace
[10:39] <lool> mvo: And opened it in wireshark
[10:39] <lool> mvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/299668/
[10:39] <lool> that's one exchange
[10:40] <lool> mvo: looks like the server claims to accept range specifications but doens't
[10:41] <lool> mvo: Mind if I fix the server now?  do you want the trace?
[10:49] <mvo> lool: thanks, I think I got what I need
[10:50] <lool> mvo: thanks for having a look
[11:15] <mvo> has someone seen something like bug #453444 (syslog filling up very quickly with message and rsyslog not catching that as dups?)
[11:34] <slangasek> TheMuso: ubuntustudio-desktop still Recommends: hotkey-setup, but shouldn't... was that inherited from ubuntu-desktop at some earlier stage?
[11:35] <pitti> ScottK, Riddell: jockey FTBFS> meh, seems python-kde4-dev suddenly stopped shipping pykdeuic4?
[11:36] <Riddell> huh?
[11:36] <Riddell> ok I'll look at that too
[11:36] <pitti> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 53 2009-10-16 07:51 /usr/bin/pykdeuic4 -> ../lib/python2.6/dist-packages/PyQt4/uic/pykdeuic4.py
[11:36] <pitti> which doesn't exist, hmm
[11:37] <pitti> /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/PyQt4/uic/pykdeuic4.pyc
[11:37] <pitti> /usr/share/pyshared/PyQt4/uic/pykdeuic4.py
[11:37] <pitti> oh
[11:37] <pitti> Riddell: this looks like fallout from the pycentral->pysupport migration?
[11:37] <pitti> Riddell: want a bug report for this?
[11:40] <Riddell> pitti: yeah go on
[11:43] <pitti> Riddell: done (bug 458953)
[11:54] <asac> stgraber: hey. wonder if you want a bug about pastebinit man page not really being helpful how to configure .pastebinitrc ?
[12:11] <Riddell> ccheney: you're uploading openoffice KDE fixes today?
[12:12] <slangasek> those should have already been uploaded?
[12:12] <Riddell> maybe he already has
[12:13] <Riddell> slangasek: yes looks like he has "Fixes wrong filter texts in KDE4 fpicker. (LP: #452518)"
[12:13]  * slangasek nods
[13:06] <logari81> should I use apport-collect to add information to a bug reported by someone else if I am affected by this bug to?
[13:06] <logari81> quote:
[13:06] <logari81> You are not the reporter of bug 434956.
[13:06] <logari81> Is that really the bug you want to update?
[13:18] <dpm> mdke, are you involved in kubuntu-docs packaging as well?
[13:18] <Riddell> dpm: I think that's just nixternal, who's away this week
[13:19] <dpm> Riddell, oh, do you know if anyone build kubuntu-docs before NonLanguagePacks deadline las week, then?
[13:19] <dpm> built
[13:20] <Riddell> dpm: last upload was four weeks ago
[13:23] <dpm> Riddell, hmm, that means kubuntu-docs translations were not exported from Launchpad on NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline and won't appear in the release
[13:24] <dpm> it will probably have to be an SRU, then
[13:24] <Riddell> dpm: well we can fix that but I suspect I've long since forgotten how to do it, maybe mdke can help
[13:26] <dpm> Riddell, now docs translations are included in language packs, so first the package needs to be uploaded (with updated translations) and then the translations are released in the language packs. Since the last language pack before release is building right now, that's no longer possible, but I think it will make a good candidate for an SRU
[13:28] <Riddell> dpm: where are they included in language packs?
[13:36] <mvo> Riddell: do you have a idea about bug #457270 ?
[13:36] <mvo> Riddell: it fails in loadUi("dialog_changes.ui") and the error is very odd
[13:51] <Christoph_vW1> mksquashfs in Karmic seems miss -le and -be options :/
[13:52] <Christoph_vW1> but the man page displays them as valid options -and they work in 9.04
[13:54] <Chris_vW> any idea how to work around the mksquashfs issue? I can't build my software without -le
[14:06] <Riddell> mvo: no but it'll be a problem in python-kde4 rather than anything to do with update-manager, I'll reassign the bug
[14:07] <mvo> Riddell: thanks
[14:16] <dpm> Riddell, do you mean the location where they are installed? Actually, looking at the package I've got installed, it seems that it wasn't migrated to use langpacks, so if it were possible to export translations, rebuild the package with them and do an upload with only the translations changes before release would work. I don't know if that's doable. You are on the release team as well, what do you think?
[14:17] <Riddell> dpm: I'd happily accept that into the archive, but I've forgotten the exact process to make the package
[14:18] <dpm> Riddell, let me dig out the wiki page with the -docs documentation...
[14:21] <Chris_vW> --> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squashfs/+bug/459072
[14:30] <lamont> so why is it that firefox comes up and sayz "Well, this is embarassing" and then I tell it to restore all of the tabs, and it goes "OK. done" ?
[14:31] <hyperair> because it has?
[14:36] <lamont> hyperair: because it fails the first try, and works just fine on retrying
[14:36] <lamont> which would kinda indicate a, well, you know, bug. maybe
[14:37] <hyperair> hmm maybe indeed.
[14:37] <hyperair> maybe it was intentional!
[14:37]  * hyperair hides
[14:38] <pitti> kenvandine: desktopcouch> -slangasek| what do SSL URLs have to do with desktop-desktop syncing?
[14:38] <lamont> I mean, it's really nice that it's so apologetic about it, even though my computer is never apologetic about anything it does.
[14:38] <lamont> we need a patch to give firefox more personalities
[14:39] <hyperair> hahahaha
[14:39] <hyperair> while we're at that, we should give fsck some personality
[14:39] <hyperair> i've had fsck scold me before
[14:39] <hyperair> blaming me for something i didn't do (fscking a mounted rw partition)
[14:40] <kenvandine> pitti, slangasek: desktop-desktop syncing happens with couchdb which uses ssl to talk to one another
[14:40] <Chris_vW> hmm - looks like squashfs-tools v4 removed support for big endian
[14:40]  * kenvandine doesn't know allot of those details though
[14:40] <Chris_vW> then -be and -le should be removed from the man page in karmic
[14:40] <kenvandine> but allot of what it does is REST calls to one another
[14:41] <pitti> kenvandine: and it doesn't use SSL for desktop->cloud?
[14:41] <pitti> kenvandine: i. e. why wasn't that broken all the time?
[14:41] <kenvandine> pitti, it does
[14:41] <kenvandine> but it doesn't serve to the cloud
[14:41] <pitti> ah, it's SSL _serving_
[14:41] <kenvandine> it is just a client of the cloud
[14:41] <kenvandine> i assume
[14:42] <kenvandine> they create a connection to each other, transfer tokens around etc
[15:03] <sabdfl> what's iceape-flashplugin?
[15:05] <pitti> sabdfl: iceape is Debian's name for firefox
[15:05] <sabdfl> thanks pitti. seems to be a known issue with adobe-flashplugin update
[15:05] <pitti> so I guess it's the flashplugin installer for it
[15:11] <scheusso> hi. i'm using karmic rc with an intel 945GM(rev 03) (today's fresh install). does anybody know why direct rendering is only enabled when running as root? (my user is in video group, permissions of /dev/dri/card0 is 660, root/video)
[15:12] <cjwatson> pitti,sabdfl: iceape is Debian's name for SeaMonkey, not Firefox - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation_software_rebranded_by_the_Debian_project
[15:12] <pitti> ah, right, that was iceweasel
[15:19] <scheusso> should i open a bugreport about this issue ?
[15:30] <ccheney> Riddell: uploaded it yesterday
[15:32] <Riddell> sorted, thanks ccheney
[15:34] <ScottK> mterry: I've got a user who installed an early Alpha and then ended up on upgrade with no syslog at all.  Would you mind having a look at the upgrade log to see if there's anything we need to deal with for upgrades?
[15:34] <jdong> Please close OpenOffice.org (including an eventually running
[15:34] <jdong> Quickstarter).
[15:34] <jdong> err the wording there is.... unusual?
[15:36] <mterry> ScottK: am busy this second, but bug number?
[15:36] <ScottK> mterry: Don't have a bug yet.  I'll ask the user to file it.
[15:36] <mterry> ScottK: k, thanks
[15:37] <Laney> dholbach: Do you know if example-content is going to get an icon for the desktop shortcut? Looks odd atm
[15:37] <ccheney> jdong: probably written by a non-native english speaker :)
[15:38] <dholbach> Laney: there's the symlink icon
[15:38] <Laney> I just see a blank piece of paper
[15:38] <Laney> is that the one?
[15:39] <jdong> ccheney: yeah, my guess too. Would've just been easier to say a 1-liner like "OpenOffice.org must be closed to update it"
[15:40] <dholbach> Laney: I had kind of an arrow the last time I looked (deleted the symlink now)
[15:40]  * Laney is in a live cd
[15:41] <Laney> dholbach: bug 458250 like that but on the desktop
[15:41] <Laney> not sure if it matters
[15:42] <ccheney> jdong: yea
[15:43] <dholbach> Laney: hum... not sure
[15:44] <jdong> ccheney: yeah I applied that update at the CLI, don't know what update manager would show you. If that same message... it's kinda scary :)
[15:44] <jdong> maybe in Debian world, you actually need to explicitly convince an expert user why he has to close down his big WYSIWYG word processor ;-)
[15:44] <ccheney> jdong: yea
[15:55] <Keybuk> bryce_: how much do you care about nouveau failures today?
[16:00] <mvo> mbiebl: hey! do you happen to know about issues with the rsyslog message duplication detection? there is bug #453444 that indicates its not quite working that well and I see my syslog filling with duplicated messages from the kernel as well
[16:00] <mvo> (not quite with the same speed though :)
[16:09] <cjwatson> Keybuk: is it possible that, when we mount the root filesystem from iSCSI in the initramfs, something is ripping it back out again? bug 457767
[16:09] <Keybuk> no idea
[16:12] <cjwatson> any suggestions on where to start looking?
[16:13] <Keybuk> I don't even know how iSCSI is mounted
[16:13] <bryce_> Keybuk, I'll care more later
[16:13] <Keybuk> bryce_: ok, I'll hold off with the bug report then ;)
[16:19] <cjwatson> Keybuk: nothing magic about the mount; logging into an iSCSI device causes the kernel to make new /dev/sd* devices available
[16:19] <cjwatson> but it does require networking to stay up :)
[16:19] <Keybuk> I don't know of anything that rips things down
[16:19] <Keybuk> disks, networking, etc.
[16:32] <mvo> mbiebl: is there a reason to not turn on RepeatedMsgReduction ?
[17:18] <kees> Keybuk: so, what're your thoughts on the "CLEAR" bug I had?
[17:19] <kees> Keybuk: it seems like slightly a matter of taste (at least the second CLEAR that I removed).
[17:19] <kees> Keybuk: the first one that repeats regardless of fsck activity is, I think, correct to be removed.
[17:19] <Keybuk> you need to CLEAR the screen between mountall updates
[17:20] <Keybuk> so they appear to be at the same point on the usplash output
[17:20] <kees> right, I didn't change that part.
[17:21] <kees> Keybuk: i.e. I added a CLEAR before the "Filesystem checks are in progress:" section and removed it outside that check.
[17:21] <kees> Keybuk: the only contentious change, possibly, is removing the CLEAR when it finishes.
[17:22] <kees> I wasn't sure about the "displaying_bored" logic
[17:22] <Keybuk> you want to clear the "I'm bored" bit
[17:23] <Keybuk> I guess the problem from a non-quiet POV is that mountall's messages are going to be interleaved with others
[17:23] <Keybuk> and usplash just flat out doesn't support that kind of model ;)
[17:23] <Keybuk> I think we should just make sure the default case works (quiet), and worry about properly fixing (or throwing away) non-quiet for lynx
[17:23] <kees> okay, I'll put the latter CLEAR back in.  are there other changes that need to go in?  I'd like to get this uploaded for the selinux fix too.
[17:23] <Keybuk> there are other changes that need to go in
[17:24] <Keybuk> please stop rushing
[17:24] <kees> sorry, I'm trying to give as much time as possible to "stabilization" before final.
[17:25] <Keybuk> an hour or thinking saves a week of bug fixing :p
[17:25] <kees> :)
[17:33] <LaserJock> anybody know the bug # for the issue with incomplete language support after install?
[17:34] <slangasek> LaserJock: 452516 (on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.milestone=12698)
[17:36] <LaserJock> slangasek: thanks, did you see my edubuntu-meta upload?
[17:36] <slangasek> LaserJock: yes, that's why it's been accepted ;)
[17:37] <LaserJock> doh, so it has
[17:45] <Keybuk> bryce_: the fun thing about my nouveau failure is this message...
[17:45] <Keybuk> [    2.734902] nouveau 0000:02:00.0: GPU lockup - switching to software fbcon
[17:45] <Keybuk> that's the second nvidia card, without any displays plugged in
[17:56] <apw> slangasek, i assume you want this dove-z0 meta change uploaded ?
[18:08] <pitti_> dpm-afk, ArneGoetje, slangasek: argh; the new langpacks are missing quite a few .po files, such as gdm, evolution, glade3, gnome-games, gnome-panel-2.0, gtk2.0; what happened?
[18:11] <pitti_> dpm-afk, ArneGoetje, slangasek: oh, seems it's just an old gettext on rookery
[18:12] <pitti_> I'm too easily scared on a Friday afternoon..
[18:21] <rafferty> anyone have luck with Sound on a Thinkpad x200 with Karmic?
[18:24] <apw> rafferty, did you ask on #ubuntu+1 ?  that would be my first port of call
[18:24] <rafferty> tried, no response.
[18:24] <rafferty> is there an alsa irq?
[18:25] <apw> its pretty close to release and people are running about like mad people i expect
[18:27] <apw> slangasek, about?
[18:33] <zul> anyone know why autofs would conflict would itself?
[18:47] <Keybuk> sladen: about?
[18:47] <Keybuk> (re: sreadahead issues)
[18:53] <Notch-1> how can i stop cron to send tons of mails? or where i can set a valid address in order to avoid my /var/log/mail.* and /var/spool/nullmailer to grow VERY quickly?
[18:57] <joaopinto> Notch-1, the support channels are #ubuntu and #ubuntu+1
[18:59] <Notch-1> it's hard to get answer there, 1500 people... and it's a tricky question i think, so if you can help, please do it
[19:04] <ScottK> Notch-1: It's explained in the cron man page and trouble getting an answer elsewhere doesn't make this a support channel.
[19:08] <Notch-1> ScottK: yeah, my mans are very short, don't know why... anyway i finally figured it out thanks to wikipedia and some other 100 forums or so... it's not easy to undestand you guys, so i use to ask here, the source...
[20:21] <wolfe> you know, I really wanted the name to be Orgasmic Koala or some inappropriately funny name ;D
[20:54] <soren> Can someone with moderator powers for ubuntu-devel please let en e-mail through for me (from nijaba, subject: UEC appliance).
[20:56] <cjwatson> soren: done
[20:57] <soren> cjwatson: Thanks very much.
[21:21] <directhex> cjwatson, did you hear the headline number i produced yesterday? f-spot&tomboy&deps footprint is down by 12 meg from Intrepid (6 meg from Jaunty)
[21:33] <cjwatson> directhex: I saw, that's pretty cool
[21:34] <directhex> sadly i think we're hitting the limits of what we can scalpel off
[21:34] <flower> does aptitude on ubuntu ignores /etc/apt/preferences and /etc/apt/apt/conf?
[21:45] <Keybuk> directhex: has Mono finally started doing shared libraries? :)
[21:45] <directhex> Keybuk, in what way?
[21:46] <Keybuk> if two apps both use Gtk#, do you still get two copies of Gtk# in memory?
[21:47] <directhex> i haven't checked. i don't think so, but miguel or one of his team is better equipped to answer that
[21:47] <lifeless> oh, whether it mmaps the file, or copies it in?
[21:47] <Keybuk> in C, shared libraries are shared in memory as well as on disk
[21:48] <Keybuk> with the PLT mapped copy-on-write so each app can have its own relocations
[21:48] <Keybuk> but basically, the entire library memory is shared
[21:48] <lifeless> all in userspace IIRC
[21:48] <lifeless> right?
[21:48] <Keybuk> in Mono, that never used to be the case, and each Mono app needed its own copy of each shared library
[21:48] <Keybuk> because it did JIT independantly and stuff
[21:48] <Keybuk> this meant the memory requirements of Mono apps were truly large
[21:50] <flower> do you use aptitude or apt-get?
[21:50] <lifeless> yes
[21:50] <flower> does aptitude on ubuntu ignores /etc/apt/preferences and /etc/apt/apt/conf?
[21:51] <flower> it seems that apt-get respects it, aptitude not
[21:51] <hyperair> it shouldn't ignore
[21:51] <hyperair> what option are you setting exactly?
[21:52] <flower> for example: http://pastebin.com/m75f77936
[21:52] <hyperair> what's version * supposed to be?
[21:52] <flower> all versions
[21:53] <hyperair> ah
[21:53] <hyperair> basically disabling pulseaudio from being installed?
[21:53] <hyperair> i don't see why you'd want to do that. =\
[21:53] <hyperair> i mean just apt-get remove and it won't come back
[21:53] <flower> that's another question
[21:54] <hyperair> ?
[21:54] <flower> why does aptitude ignore it, that's the question
[21:55] <Keybuk> it probably doesn't
[21:55] <hyperair> yeah. something else overrode it probably
[21:56] <Keybuk> given "aptitude", probably the user
[21:56] <flower> mmh when I test it with pavucontrol, apt-get doesn't install pulseaudio, aptitude does
[21:57] <hyperair> aptitude purge pulseaudioblah, followed by aptitude hold pulseaudioblah
[21:57] <hyperair> i think that should pretty much stick it in position
[21:59] <Keybuk> flower: yes, but did aptitude tell you it was having to install pulseaudio to solve a solution?
[21:59] <flower> Keybuk: no
[22:00] <flower> strange...
[22:03] <flower> aptitude hold doesn't work either, when testing it with pavucontrol
[22:04] <Keybuk> don't use aptitude then ;)
[22:05] <flower> it shouldn't happen... in Ubuntu
[22:06] <dupondje> final is almost there :)
[22:06] <dupondje> but still nobody fixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptitude/+bug/391035 :P
[22:07] <Keybuk> flower: why not?  we don't recommend people use aptitude
[22:07] <joaopinto> dupondje, I don't think that's critical enough to deserver a post RC fix
[22:07] <Keybuk> use synaptic or ubuntu software centre
[22:07] <dupondje> joaopinto: I can understand ;)
[22:08] <dupondje> did build own package now for it
[22:08] <dupondje> it works here ;)
[22:08] <flower> is it possible to remove aptitude or is tasksel very important?
[22:08] <joaopinto> flower, man tasksel
[22:13] <flower> joaopinto: I don't think I ever used that. Is that an alternative for apt-get?
[22:14] <joaopinto> flower, read it's manpage :)
[22:14] <flower> joaopinto: mmh yeah, try to understand it... looks handy for generating debian cds or something
[22:15] <simon-o> fabrice_sp: Thanks for your comment on bug 459164 I'll take a look at it soon. And thanks for sponsoring my stuff :)
[22:16] <cjwatson> flower: tasksel is in ubuntu-minimal because the installer needs it. Unfortunately, removing it will also remove ubuntu-minimal, which is *permitted* but it does mean that you may have a harder time on upgrades
[22:16] <cjwatson> one of these days I should make it dynamically installed or something
[22:16] <flower> cjwatson: thanks!
[22:17] <cjwatson> aptitude is definitely kind of heavy for a debootstrapped chroot
[22:17] <fabrice_sp> simon-o, you're welcome. And thanks, for making Ubuntu better ;-)
[22:17] <flower> cjwatson: but do you understand why aptitude doesn't listen to /etc/apt/preferences here?
[22:17] <cjwatson> flower: I don't know about that
[22:17] <mvo> if the release upgrader is used, ubuntu-minimal will be put back by it if missing. it does not like when its not there
[22:18] <flower> cjwatson: you guyst always use apt-get?
[22:18] <flower> *guys
[22:18] <flower> *smart guys ...
[22:18] <flower> ;)
[22:18]  * mvo uses apt-get and is on his way to bed
[22:19] <flower> apt-get install REM-sleep
[22:19] <flower> good nicht
[22:19] <flower> night
[22:19] <arand> cjwatson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/445067 is, to me, a rather nasty one, you think there's reason enough to worry/fix before final?
[22:19] <cjwatson> flower: depends what I'm doing. aptitude has a more capable UI, but I rarely bother
[22:19] <cjwatson> arand: I'm pretty sure that we've never taken
[22:19] <cjwatson> arand: ... much care to preserve extended boot records
[22:20] <cjwatson> so I have a hard time justifying it as an OH MY GOD item?
[22:20] <cjwatson> I'm guessing it's probably the fact that partman resizes extended partitions as needed
[22:20] <arand> hmm, fair enough, but I'm kind of bothered since I keep grub there :/
[22:21] <cjwatson> I'm certainly not denying it's a bug - it just doesn't seem like the sort of regression that means we'd need to use some of the very few hours we have left to fix it
[22:21] <cjwatson> if it's demonstrated that it doesn't happen with older releases, that would increase the urgency
[22:22] <arand> also, this happens even if the installer isn't touching the extended (e.g. installing to a different HD)
[22:22] <cjwatson> um, why do you say extended boot records though?
[22:22] <cjwatson> sda1 is *not* an extended partition
[22:22] <cjwatson> your bug is very confusing
[22:23] <cjwatson> you say you've installed grub to the extended boot record (hd0,4) (grub1 syntax, so /dev/sda5) - but then the dd commands you give are dumping from /dev/sda1
[22:23] <cjwatson> which is it?
[22:26] <wgrant> The website is still showing the beta. Shouldn't it advertise the RC now?
[22:26] <arand> hmm, yea, it needs clarification...
[22:28] <cjwatson> the technical term for /dev/sda1 is a primary partition. Extended partitions do not have device nodes. /dev/sda5 is a logical partition. GRUB, as far as I can see, will never actually install to the extended boot record (the boot sector of the extended partition), only to the MBR or to the boot sector of a primary or logical partition.
[22:28] <cjwatson> arand: does that help clarify terms?
[22:32] <arand> cjwatson: Ok, so I create an (what I would call) extended partition sda1, which contains sda5 and sda6 (which ubuntu is istalled to) in the installer I specified installing grub to sda1 (meaning I will have to chainload it, which I did by grub-root(0,4)-setup), I then ran ubiquity to install on a completely different haddrive, which meant that the chainloadable grub on sda1 was overwritten (mbr one still intact), resulting in
[22:33] <cjwatson> it's not possible to create an extended partition sda1
[22:34] <cjwatson> sda1 cannot contain other partitions
[22:34] <cjwatson> so I cannot comprehend your report
[22:34] <cjwatson> I suggest attaching installation logs to your bug report (/var/log/installer/syslog, /var/log/installer/partman)
[22:36] <arand> Hmm, i'm sure that's how I did it in vbox... anyhow, my current system has sda4 as extended, and grub installed to it for chainloading, which will be overwritten if I try to install karmic to, for example, a usb stick
[22:37] <arand> "grub installed" here meaning installed to the first 512 of it (afaik)
[22:47] <cjwatson> arand: again, sda4 is not an extended partition, it is a primary partition
[22:48] <cjwatson> arand: please stop using the word "extended" to refer to primary or logical partitions; it's really really confusing
[22:48] <cjwatson> nothing that you'll find in /dev is an extended partition
[22:48] <cjwatson> (hd0,4) in grub isn't an extended partition either
[22:49] <sbeattie> cjwatson: fdisk confuses the matter like so: $ sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda | grep Extended
[22:49] <sbeattie> /dev/sda3            3136      182401  1439954145    5  Extended
[22:51] <arand> Sorry, but yea so does gparted in that case... : /dev/sda4 : filesystem: Extended, hence me calling it so..
[22:51] <cjwatson> oh, hah, ok fair point
[22:51] <cjwatson> in that case I take back my comments with some embarrassment :)
[22:52] <cjwatson> it's very unusual to have sda1 as an extended partition of course, since some BIOSes can't boot if you do that
[22:52] <cjwatson> so I offer that as partial defence :)
[22:53] <cjwatson> arand: ok, sorry about that :-( in that case, it probably is just partman packing the extended partition, and not dealing with copying the boot records around. Exactly why it's doing that should be deducible from your installation logs, if you could attach them to the report please?
[22:59] <arand> Hmm, I'm not completely sure how I managed to get sda1 as an extended on the vbox, anyhow, the machine with sda4 is the one where it matters, now I at least have something substantial to blame :) btw, is the logs saved to the installed system or are they lost as you exit the livecd?
[23:00] <cjwatson> arand: they're saved to /var/log/installer/
[23:00] <cjwatson> 22:34 <cjwatson> I suggest attaching installation logs to your bug report (/var/log/installer/syslog, /var/log/installer/partman)
[23:06] <chrisccoulson> should we be adding "regression-release" tags to regression bugs now which are unlikely to be fixed before final but are candidates for SRU after karmic release (or still using "regression-potential")?
[23:06] <Keybuk> so, this is on a hard drive
[23:06] <Keybuk> wing-commander src# echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
[23:06] <Keybuk> wing-commander src# time /sbin/sreadahead --no-fork
[23:06] <Keybuk> (some time passes)
[23:06] <Keybuk> /sbin/sreadahead --no-fork  0.00s user 0.14s system 0% cpu 36.222 total
[23:07] <Keybuk> wing-commander src# echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
[23:07] <Keybuk> wing-commander src# time ./ureadahead
[23:07] <Keybuk> ./ureadahead --verbose  0.00s user 0.04s system 2% cpu 2.157 total
[23:08] <sconklin> hey akgraner, you here?
[23:08] <akgraner> yeppers
[23:09] <akgraner> sconklin, what's up?
[23:09] <sconklin> the feed tool I was trying to remember earlier and brain-faded on is just google reader - it's under the 'more' tab on your google home page
[23:09] <sconklin> akgraner: ^^
[23:10] <akgraner> sconklin, oh cool...:-)
[23:10] <akgraner> I was just working on setting all that up
[23:48] <jaka> anyone awake
[23:48] <arand> cjwatson: logs attached now, does that comment make sense?
[23:48] <jaka> was just wondering
[23:49] <jaka> whats the major difference in lenny vs jaunty
[23:50] <wasabi__> One's Debian, and ones Ubuntu?
[23:50] <wasabi__> No?
[23:50] <jaka> erm k
[23:51] <wgrant> And one is a year newer.
[23:51] <wasabi__> Is this a real question
[23:51] <jaka> no actually
[23:51] <jaka> nvm
[23:51]  * ogra wondered that as well
[23:57] <jaka> from a developer point of view
[23:57] <jaka> whats great about kde to gnome
[23:57] <jaka> and why has ubuntu chosen kde over gnome
[23:58] <lifeless> jaka: Ubuntu is GNOME based
[23:58] <lifeless> jaka: your question doesn't make any sense
[23:58] <jaka> where's the channel for it
[23:58] <lifeless> channel for what
[23:58] <jaka> there's one for kde but not rfor gnome
[23:58] <jaka> ubuntu gnome?
[23:58] <cjwatson> arand: thanks, will trawl that when I get a chance
[23:59] <lifeless> jaka: I don't think there is one. There is a channel for Gnome on the Gnome IRC network - see the gnome.org website for details
[23:59] <cjwatson> arand: I think there are at least two bugs here ...