doctormoVantrax: Thanks :-)00:05
Vantraxif you need any help, let me know00:06
pleia2swoody: looks good so far, cprofitt is working on this too so I'll make sure he has a look00:08
* pleia2 is at a lug meeting for the night, again00:08
swoodypleia2, thanks :)00:08
swoodyI'm thinking I could take out some of the details though, as they seem to be things that would be covered by a topic, and not have to be a sub-topic of it's own00:08
doctormoVantrax: Will do, hopefully something can be helped out with that group00:11
Saj0577morning al03:43
Saj0577pleia2: you looking for me earlier?03:49
pleia2Saj0577: yeah, was just letting you know I was putting together that tx email03:49
pleia2but you know that now :)03:49
Saj0577argh right no problem :) been asleep was not feeling to grand03:49
* Saj0577 wishes he could write emails like that lol03:52
Saj0577you read the replies and respondeding or am I free to go ahead and reply expalianing about the state exception for countries03:54
cprofittdoctormo, can you walk like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqhlQfXUk7w03:55
cprofittI know you have the hat... but not sure about the walk03:55
cprofittthat is one of my favorite comedy bits03:55
doctormocprofitt: Well yes, but my legs are not quite as gangly as John cleezes03:56
* cprofitt smiles03:56
swoodyhello cprofitt :)03:56
cprofitthey Swoody03:57
swoodycprofitt, when you get a chance, could you take a glance at the 'Using Ubuntu' page?03:57
Saj0577hey swoody what you doing in here hehe03:57
swoodyI 'tweaked' it a bit :)03:57
swoodycprofitt, wanted to get your input :)03:57
swoodySaj0577, I'm everywhere...03:57
* swoody disapears into a cloud of smoke...03:58
Saj0577I know!!!03:58
cprofittswoody -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics03:59
cprofittthat page or the Moodle server?03:59
cprofittI like the additions to the wiki04:00
swoodycprofitt, yeah, that page :)04:00
cprofittthough were there Ubuntu wiki articles on the items you linked to freeos?04:00
swoodynot sure, I usually just put up whatever looked best / most complete04:01
swoodywill look into it though :)04:01
cprofittI would want to make sure that we used the Ubuntu wiki vs. outside sources04:01
cprofittperhaps updating the Ubuntu wiki would be in order if the outside material is not solid...04:01
cprofittthough using outside material is not a 'bad' thing04:01
swoodycprofitt, sounds good :)04:02
swoodyI'll be sure to reference the wiki first then :)04:02
swoodyand I'll check into the ones that I already posted04:02
cprofittCool... thanks swoody - very good work04:02
swoodythank you :)04:02
pleia2hooray swoody04:03
swoodyhaha, thanks pleia2 :)04:03
swoodyso do you two think I should cut out some of the 'details' on the wiki?04:03
swoodyLike I had mentioned, I think some of the things I listed on there don't need to be sub-listed as they would more than likely be covered by the topic04:03
cprofittswoody, true04:04
swoodynamely the 'devices' section04:04
cprofittsome of the items you listed might fall under 'maintenance' as well04:04
swoodybut there some others tossed in there, too04:04
cprofittyou would have to ask pleia2 and doctormo04:04
swoodytrue, I just re-organized what was there, I really tried not to add/remove much04:05
swoodybut overlap will have to be looked into as well :)04:05
pleia2yeah, we haven't quite sorted out how we're going to make sure all the sections with overlap are dealt with04:05
pleia2aside from keeping it in our heads04:05
cprofittswoody, yes... we have to try to avoid duplication04:06
doctormoswoody: What aspects of the file system need to be taught for desktop?04:07
swoodydoctormo, not sure, it was there. I just organized it :)04:08
swoodypossibly just the basics?04:08
swoodyyour /home and ~/multimedia directories?04:09
doctormoswoody: OK, I'm thinking FS, CLI and so on are sharable base lessons for maintence and systems administration, though not desktop.04:09
doctormoswoody: You mean XDG directories? I'd keep it to just teaching places and nautilus.04:10
cprofittI would say your /etc too04:10
cprofittand probably /dev04:10
doctormoinclude pluging in devices and mounting an ftp server and your onto a winner04:10
doctormocprofitt: For the desktop?04:10
cprofittI would also think /media04:10
swoodycprofitt, nah, I don't think so04:10
swoodycprofitt, those may be above the needs of a desktop user04:11
cprofittI have not run server yet...04:11
cprofittand I have used all of those04:11
cprofittnot sure you need to go in to great depth... but I think at least knowing about them can help04:11
swoodySo is the Admin courses directed more towards server use?04:12
cprofittthat is the issue...04:12
swoodyand FYI, I haven't really used /media /dev or /etc :)04:12
cprofittI think we should make the course -- Desktop and Server04:12
cprofittor Using and Maintenance04:12
cprofittswoody, you ever played with your xorg.conf file?04:13
cprofittor checked your /media file to see what items are mounted?04:13
swoodysurprisingly not really :)04:13
cprofittor use /dev to see what tty you need to use to use minicom?04:13
swoodyhaha, I'm a pretty basic user ;)04:13
swoodyinternet, music, one USB thumb drive every 6 months...04:14
swoodyIRC, and that's about it :)04:14
cprofittso perhaps we need a 'basic' desktop course and an 'advanced' desktop course04:14
swoodythat could be useful :)04:15
cprofittI think the confusion is that the 'areas' are Using and Maintenance... but server is only under maintenance and desktop just under using04:15
swoodyvery intro for the soccer moms who want to check their email and blogs...04:15
doctormocprofitt: both of which were in the plan I sent when we were talking about this in the mailing list.04:15
cprofittwhen there is maintenance on the desktop side and using on the server side04:15
doctormocprofitt: Nah, desktop is under maint too, just hasn't been fleshed out.04:15
cprofittis server under using then too?04:16
doctormoAnd the using on the server side is not infrastructural, setting things up on a server is maint, using a server isn't using a server if you know what I mean.04:16
cprofittdoctormo, hmm...04:16
cprofittnot sure I follow you.04:16
doctormoBecause clients use servers, people dont04:16
cprofittso LDAP on a server would just be in the setup...04:17
cprofittand maintaining LDAP via a client would be covered under which area?04:17
pleia2desktop users will never be maintaining ldap04:18
doctormocprofitt: Desktop maint for client on LDAP, setting up LDAP on server would be server maint.04:18
cprofittUnder System Administration and Maintenance?04:18
doctormoBut they'd have to be bound04:18
cprofittand both of those under sys admin and maintenance right?04:18
doctormoWell we're talking about sections here04:19
cprofittyes, the five buttons on our wiki04:19
doctormoThe classes will be more direct as far as learnign objectives. But devel sections aren't always going to relate.04:19
cprofittI figured...04:20
doctormoSo we may not have to duplicate under two sections04:21
cprofittbut LDAP both client and server will be under the How To Maintain 'area' on our wiki?04:21
doctormoMost of what we know here in the technical world is maint, because use seems so obvious.04:22
cprofittwhere would things like teaching some basic command line be?04:22
pleia2I'd say server, maybe an option addon to desktop course04:23
pleia2we don't want to scare people off from desktop use, command line is scary04:23
cprofittwhy do we keep saying server...04:23
pleia2whatever we're calling it, maintenance?04:23
cprofittI think that is what is throwing me04:23
doctormocprofitt: Well technically cli is use, and it's a base class for most sys admin maint. So it's possible to do basic cli in use, but I'd put it in maint as it's not really used for only use as much for the people we want to teach.04:23
cprofittthere is a Sys Admin and Maintenance04:23
cprofittand Desktop and Application area on our wiki04:24
pleia2cprofitt: sorry, i've just shortended it to desktop and server like we did on the wiki04:24
doctormoYea, sysadmin is a subtopic of maint.04:24
cprofittpleia2, but the wiki has not been shortened to server... unless I am missing that part...04:25
cprofittand I might have missed it04:25
pleia2well nevermind then, I am too sleepy to watch my terms so carefully so I think I'll just let you guys do this :)04:25
pleia2s/carefully/carefully examined04:26
cprofittI look at the CLI as necessary for desktop -- at least a little under a troubleshooting course.04:26
* pleia2 seeks pillows and things04:26
cprofittpleia2, -- no issue... but I was just trying to keep the areas sep.04:26
cprofittso the CLI item would be under sysadmin/maintenance but considered a desktop level (at basic CLI)04:26
doctormocprofitt: But trouble shooting is desktop maint.04:27
cprofittand a more advanced CLI would be sysadmin/maintenance but a server related course?04:27
cprofittright doctormo and parts of desktop will fall under sys admin / maint04:27
cprofittI understand where you are coming from now with 'use'04:27
cprofittYou mean use as in 'end' user use only04:27
cprofittthat helps me 'grasp' how we are dividing stuff up04:28
cprofittwith that said... File Permissions is a grey area swoody04:29
cprofittall of the command line stuff on the page you linked should be moved to the other page04:30
swoodywell like I said, in my defense, I'm not creator or destoyer, I just organized it :)04:30
swoodyok, will do :)04:30
cprofittthe installing applications should be moved as well..04:30
cprofittthat is not really using, but maintenance04:31
doctormosorry about that04:31
doctormocomputer crashed04:31
swoodysounds good04:31
cprofittI would say File System can stay in a light version... Intro to Command line and Installing Apps moved to maintenance04:31
doctormocprofitt: Last thing you said was [Thu Oct 22 2009] [23:26:28] <cprofitt> pleia2, -- no issue... but I was just trying to keep the areas sep.04:31
swoodydo you guys want the 'Desktop usage' to only include apps that come pre-installed with Ubuntu?04:31
doctormoNo wait, that's just the last thing in my log, I know you said thigns after that.04:32
doctormoswoody: Well, the desktop use should first contain gnome desktop, then gnome panels (like nautilus) then further out to default apps, last priority to other apps.04:33
doctormoI'd make an exception for inkscape04:33
swoodythat's what I figured :)04:33
swoodybut default for Jaunty, or Karmic?04:33
cprofittI think Apps, even if not default, can be using04:33
cprofittbut installing apps = maintenance04:33
cprofittI do not think we need to make a distinction between default and not default04:34
cprofittTuxRacer is not going to be maintenance04:34
doctormoSo sysadmin != maint, maint is the super topic and sysadmin will just be a set of classes/courses that emerge I think from those topics.04:34
swoodycprofitt, could be if you want it to be ;)04:34
doctormoBut also in maint (and not sysadmin) is the desktop maint.04:34
cprofittdoctormo, I am just going by the buttons you have...04:35
doctormoThe buttons may need rewording, I know I need to reword the community area.04:35
* cprofitt nods04:36
cprofittusing and maintenance areas make it 'cleaner' I think04:36
cprofittcould just be my odd mind though04:37
doctormoOK so I think changing "Systems Administration and Maintenance" to "Desktop Maintenance and Server Administration"04:38
doctormocprofitt: your thoughts?04:38
doctormoOg course that does leave client administration as a hanging by line of server admin, hmm.04:39
cprofittI would just make it Maintenance and Using04:40
cprofittthe desktop vs. server vs. sys admin is a course organization thing, not a topic organization thing04:40
Saj0577Maintenace and Usage   :)04:42
cprofittthat works Saj057704:42
cprofittdoctormo, does that work for you?04:43
doctormocprofitt: Sure, so are you saying I should remove the sub-text to the buttons?04:44
cprofittor change it...04:44
cprofittmaintenance / sysadmin is still valid I think.04:45
cprofittthe How should just not be limited to desktop04:45
cprofittsystems administration could be removed... too...04:48
cprofittI think that would probably make it less confusing04:48
doctormocprofitt: The word How?04:48
cprofittits almost like sys admin should have it own button... and programming / community development could be broken apart too...04:49
doctormoJust "Maintain Ubuntu" or "Ubuntu Maintenance"04:49
cprofitteither works...04:49
cprofittif you have Use Ubuntu -- then Maintain04:49
cprofittif you have Using Ubuntu then Maintaining04:49
* cprofitt smiles04:49
cprofittsound good?04:49
doctormocprofitt: Lets not go wild just yet, I'd rather see problem organising on those wiki pages before I create more topics, otherwise we'll get a little bit of choice paralasys.04:50
doctormoSo splitting up to be decided later on?04:50
cprofittthat is fine.04:50
doctormoThe wording I agree on though :-) sounds good04:50
doctormoDamn IRC and it's async chat.04:51
doctormoI think I'll get off to bed, trying to sleep properly again04:56
swoodyJust FYI, I've been trying to get things setup with some new people for Folding Jam, so I'll read all the logs to catch up :)04:57
cprofittk swoody05:02
=== swoody is now known as not
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=== not-swoody is now known as swoody
swoodygood morning everyone :)18:35
doctormohello swoody18:37
swoodyhow's life treating you today, doctormo ?18:40
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=== s is now known as s-woody
=== doctormo_ is now known as doctormo
=== s-woody is now known as swoody

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