starcraftmanfolks Beginners team wiki FG meeting in a few minutes.20:57
duanedesignbetter, not so many people in #ubuntu-docs21:03
starcraftmanHey guys, hmmm, maybe wait a few more minutes for any late comers. I shall much on some fresh oatmeal cookies meanwhile.21:03
jjesseah i always get confused on the difference between #kde-docs and #ubuntu-doc :)21:04
Rocket2DMnlol yeah21:04
drs305I only came for the cake!21:05
jjessetheres cake?21:05
starcraftmandrs305: what? Who said anything about cake?21:05
duanedesignKashi makes a good oatmeal raisin cookie21:05
drs305starcraftman: You did, yesterday. Check the logs!21:05
Rocket2DMni heard there would be an open bar21:05
* drs305 Admits it might have been only virtual cake ...21:06
starcraftmandrs305: Oh right. Lemme just go fetch it.21:06
PabloRubianesdrs305: any cake is good!21:06
Rocket2DMnok starcraftman , let's do this21:06
Rocket2DMnwant me to begin starcraftman ?21:07
starcraftmanRocket2DMn: Sure thing. Your up first on agenda. We go by list.21:07
Rocket2DMnOk guys, so we finished the Summer of Documentation a few weeks ago, you can see the results here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki/SoD200921:07
Rocket2DMnThank you all for your efforts and excellent work!21:08
starcraftmanhear hear, was a good productive effort :).21:08
Rocket2DMnof course, that doesn't mean that we stop doing work, which leads to the next agenda item: Fall/Winter Activities21:08
Rocket2DMnAs of right now there is nothing we have organized, but wiki work will continue, and anybody interested in system documentation can talk to me or any doc-team member for that matter21:09
Rocket2DMnKarmic is due out in a few days, so the Wiki will have a bunch of stuff that needs to be updated21:09
Rocket2DMnif you have any pages that you "maintain", have a look at them soon once you have Karmic up and running and see if anything needs to be changed21:10
Rocket2DMngo for it lukjad00721:10
lukjad007If we are not immediately upgrading to karmic, what should we do in the meantime?21:10
starcraftmanlukjad007: virtualbox? Clean up tags? Orphan pages? Lots of things :)21:11
Rocket2DMnwell lukjad007 , nobody owns wiki pages, you don't have ultimate responsibility for them since it's a community effort21:11
Rocket2DMnYou can install in a VM, or ask somebody to review the page for you to see if anythin actually has changed21:11
lukjad007starcraftman Good points, just asking for suggestions.21:11
Rocket2DMnotherwise, just wait and have a look after you do upgrade, in that time, perhaps somebody else will step forward and update the page21:12
Rocket2DMnoterhwise, yes, there are other tasks :)21:12
Rocket2DMngo ahead drs30521:12
drs305Graphics w/ backgrounds still use LTS (Hardy)?21:13
Rocket2DMndrs305, if screenshots already exist on pages and are still applicable, then you can keep the old ones.  If things have changed, then new screenshots are needed21:13
Rocket2DMnthat may require pages to be refactored to support older and newer versions21:14
Rocket2DMnif you are doing fresh screenshots, use the latest release21:14
drs305Ok, but I'm NOT using any with that yellow background!21:14
Rocket2DMnhaha, drs305 if the material is the same between Hardy and Karmic, you can use Hardy :)21:15
starcraftmandrs305: or just take screenshots limited to the window of the program, avoids background.21:15
Rocket2DMnI think the most important thing is that you use the default theme, the background image isn't as important21:15
drs305That's what I normally do starcraftman21:15
starcraftmandrs305: roger, just noting.21:16
Rocket2DMnAny other questions?21:16
Rocket2DMnOk, next agenda item is Other doc team activities21:17
Rocket2DMnI don't think anything out of the ordinary is going on21:17
Rocket2DMnYou can always see Doc Team wiki tasks here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Wiki/Tasks21:17
duanedesignwe are still using https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Development ?21:17
Rocket2DMnduanedesign, yeah, for internal usage.  At some point I need to put something together for the whole doc team to use, at mdke's request21:17
Rocket2DMnat that time we'll migrate21:18
Rocket2DMnSystem documentation also has tasks here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks21:18
starcraftmanRocket2DMn: Sounds good. Still gonna be a system based on the wiki though?21:18
Rocket2DMnso if anybody is interested in writing material from scratch, there are some options there21:18
Rocket2DMnstarcraftman, yes21:19
starcraftmanI'd just like to note, these links all listed under the Current Tasks section of the homepage :)21:19
Rocket2DMnstarcraftman, in fact, it may be a good idea to just give a link to the doc team list so we don't duplicate material21:19
lukjad007afk, brb.21:19
Rocket2DMnit would help us integrate even better with the doc team21:20
Rocket2DMnIf anybody has suggestions or ideas for tasks or improvements in any way, please don't hesitate to bring them forward to the doc team directly21:20
starcraftmanRocket2DMn: Sure thing. If ya need a hand on new track system, long as I'm around I'll try and help.21:20
Rocket2DMnany questions about tasks?21:21
Rocket2DMnsure thing starcraftman21:21
duanedesignwhat is this doc team list?21:21
Rocket2DMnduanedesign, the doc team mailing list is here - https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc21:22
starcraftmanduanedesign: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki#Joining%20the%20Teams21:22
Rocket2DMnthat is their primary form of communication since IRC isn't as popular as it is with the BT21:22
starcraftmanAh, rats, Rocket2DMn by 5 seconds.21:22
duanedesignoh ok the ,ailing list21:22
Rocket2DMnOk, well then my final announcement today is this: I am stepping down from the lead position in the Wiki FG and handing over leadership to starcraftman .  It's been a year and a half since we formed the FG, and I'd like to give somebody else a chance, as well as free up some time for myself21:23
* starcraftman dons requisite crown ready to become a tyrant.21:24
Rocket2DMnA handful of Wiki FG members spoke a couple of weeks ago and everybody supported him for leadership21:24
Rocket2DMnI believe he is looking for a co-lead as well, that is further down on the agenda21:24
drs305All hail the RocketMan! Well done!21:24
Rocket2DMnI'll still be around of course :)21:24
Rocket2DMnthanks drs305 , i can't believe it's been as long as it has21:25
* PabloRubianes claps!!21:25
Rocket2DMnthank you thank you, i accept donations via check or paypal21:25
starcraftmanRocket2DMn: ya deserve the break, former boss. Take it easy and relax to some DT :)21:25
duanedesignI have been reADINg the doc team mailing list rather religiously lately interested in any doc team activities at UDS21:25
drs305Seriously.  Great job putting the team together and all the work you did.21:25
Rocket2DMnduanedesign, are you going to UDS?21:26
drs305Now The king is dead. Long live the king. All hail starcraftman21:26
duanedesignRocket2DMn: That is the plan21:26
Rocket2DMnduanedesign, very cool dude, there was an email thread about UDS which I think you saw.  Pics or it didn't happen!21:26
starcraftmandrs305: You have a bright future. :)21:26
drs305It's NEVER too early to suck up.21:27
Rocket2DMnlol ok guys, let's keep moving so we don't drag this out21:27
Rocket2DMnSaj0577, are you here?21:27
starcraftmanduanedesign: I wish I could go, they need to hold one near Montreal again.21:28
starcraftmanRocket2DMn: nope, I was told PabloRubianes filling in for edu.21:28
PabloRubianesSaj0577 won't be here... some problems with a friend... he was taking him to hospital...21:28
duanedesignI am lucky it is in Dallas 4 hours from me21:28
starcraftmanduanedesign: rubbing it in eh? You going far, not so much...21:28
Rocket2DMnok PabloRubianes , then the floor is yours, enlighten us as to what is happening with edu FG and it's effec ton the Wiki FG21:28
duanedesignI am working on a wiki page(s) for Launchpad. This is a project with me and Pablo right now21:28
duanedesignsorry go ahead PabloRubianes21:29
PabloRubianesduanedesign just tell everything ;-)21:29
PabloRubianesnow we are working on google docs... and we are goona use that material for launchpad wiki page, tutorials for edu FG, and for the launchpad FG21:30
PabloRubianesI imagine that Saj0577 was trying to find more people to help with the job21:31
duanedesignyes I just did the 'getting started' section and Bodhi is working on a packaging blog post which i am hoping to use :)21:32
PabloRubianesbecause this topic could be a inter FG work21:32
duanedesignBut Launchpad is a fairly complex with a lot of tools. The result will be used between the Ubuntu wiki and the Education FG21:33
Rocket2DMnDon't forget to integrate with existing resources when working on any kind of documentation.21:33
starcraftmanPabloRubianes: hmmm, didn't he want to talk about getting mentors from the FG to follow people after they pass through new Wiki course he was planning? I could be wrong, that's what told me I think.21:33
duanedesignRocket2DMn: good point. Their is a lot already donee on the Launchpad wiki21:34
duanedesignRocket2DMn: in a case like that is it better, in your opinion, to link to LP or duplicate the documentation w/ attribution21:35
PabloRubianesstarcraftman: i don't know that Saj0577 ask me in a rush to be here...21:35
PabloRubianesstarcraftman: he told me you could explain...21:36
Rocket2DMnduanedesign, better to link rather than to duplicate material.  That means if the original documentaiton changes, you don' thave to keep up21:36
starcraftmanPabloRubianes: ah, hmmm, lemme get my logs then, think he explained it quite well on em.21:36
Rocket2DMnif the exisitng documentation is incorrect, you should alert the maintainer21:36
Rocket2DMnif it's a wiki page that is wrong, you can update it yourself21:36
duanedesignRocket2DMn: good point. Launchpad does have a Doc Team :)21:37
Rocket2DMnyeah, you can file bugs against LP itself21:37
duanedesignAlso Launchpad has a few screencasts up on youtube21:38
duanedesignI thought these were helpfull as I like screencasts.ubuntu.comm21:38
duanedesigndoes antone know the status of the screencast team21:38
duanedesignI thought at one point it was part of the doc team21:39
Rocket2DMnduanedesign, you should ping pleia2 , she might know21:39
starcraft-ntbkPabloRubianes: hurrah, I have the logs.21:39
starcraft-ntbklp discussion done?21:40
PabloRubianesthat's great21:40
starcraft-ntbkwell from silence, I assume convo done, so back on topic.21:42
starcraft-ntbkSaj0577's proposal > http://pastebin.com/m521f705a21:42
starcraft-ntbkNot too much reading.21:42
* starcraftman waits for people to read and turns futurama on.21:43
Rocket2DMnIt sounds like not much is needed from our end in this.21:44
Rocket2DMnIf the Edu FG ends up with users who are interested in documentation, they get sent our way21:44
Rocket2DMnwe're more or less a back door direct to the ubuntu doc team21:44
Rocket2DMnWe are happy to help people learn how to write documentation21:44
starcraftmanRocket2DMn: aye, from my understand intention was to set up some sort of course they give to new prospects and then we can look over em. Saves us some question answering I suppose.21:45
Rocket2DMnstarcraft-ntbk, I think your rewrite of the Wiki FG page handles that pretty well, there is a section specifically for new users which includes links to getting started with the wiki21:46
starcraftmanRocket2DMn: hehe, thanks. I tried to make it simple. I'm with ya on your points, I don't mind answering questions, and if others wanna answer too, all the better :).21:47
Rocket2DMnWe have found in the past that having a prolonged mentor/mentee system doesn't work that well in a distributed development environment - it is really up to the new person to ask questions and have others review their work21:47
Rocket2DMnthat means that the user needs to be active in seeking advice and getting involved.  However, that's not to say that providing valuable information up front is not important.  One of the biggest problems some users have is knowing WHERE to get help/support21:48
Rocket2DMnIt sounds like the Edu FG's goal is to make it easier for people to get involved in different areas by knowing where the knowledge base is21:48
starcraftmanRocket2DMn: indeed, I guess so. In any event, what Saj0577 is asking isn't too different from way we operate now with new folks I suppose so no problem.21:49
starcraftmanMaybe once he flushes it out a bit more we'll get better idea.21:50
starcraftmanI'm not privy to all his ideas, so maybe he had more than what was in my logs.21:50
Rocket2DMnstarcraft-ntbk, it sounds like they act as traffic cops and a GPS - they can direct users in where to go in order to get involved, and where to get the initial information from21:51
Rocket2DMnperhaps they also help those seeking to contribute in finding what they are actually interested in doing21:51
Rocket2DMnin any case, i think we need more information, so let's move on and we can discuss it more later when Saj0577 gets back21:52
starcraftmanindeed, before we move on, we still got other folks right? Us two been only ones talking!21:52
* starcraftman pokes drs305 and nhasian who been particularly quiet.21:53
drs305I'm reading, but no inputs.21:53
Rocket2DMnlukjad007, duanedesign , you still with us, too?21:53
duanedesignMy understanding of the Edu FG was that it was to handle..21:53
starcraftmanWell you guys say something once and a while, just so we know ya there. :)21:54
duanedesignhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning    How to Develop    How to spread21:54
Rocket2DMnduanedesign, i think that is part of what they were doing, but they are trying to let that be a separate project now21:55
Rocket2DMnlet's move on with our agenda21:55
starcraftmanRocket2DMn: roger, ok, all mine.21:56
starcraftmanWell first thing is new page as was already mentioned and linky > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki21:56
starcraftmanJust wanted some feedback on new layout, and people might wanna look over it again much improved organization wise. :)21:57
drs305I think I've already said I like it.  ... repeats himself.21:58
drs305Very nice look.21:58
Rocket2DMnI think it looks good, definitely more user friendly than it was before21:59
starcraftmanK, well moving on. I was wanting to be sure everyones on the new BT mail list, uptake was a little slow (per nhandlers numbers), and I was thinking of maybe having a lil informal newletter once in a while.22:01
starcraftmanNewletter go out by email to bounce off our bt list and it'd maybe detail certain projects to work on for a period, stuff folks could pick up. Just a thought, we don't seem to use the bt list so often.22:02
Rocket2DMnI like that idea, it's a good way to keep an open dialog between meetings (which only happen a few times a year)22:02
duanedesignstarcraftman: good idea. I have implemented a newsletter awhile back with OKlahoma LoCo and it helps with momentum, keeping people excited about projects and they are informative22:03
starcraftmanduanedesign: thanks. I'll look into it, that was about what I hoped. Probably not too much, just to keep people working on pages. Maybe have some special weeks where we do one task or other. Also, not too often, maybe every 2nd week or 3rd, depending how much going on.22:05
ZachK_hi team22:05
Rocket2DMnhey ZachK_ , we're finishing up a Wiki FG meeting - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki22:06
starcraftmanWell, I guess that's about it for that topic, I'll either write it up or co-lead which leads to last topic!22:07
duanedesignstarcraftman: just an idea we might think about all the FG pitching in on one every so often.22:07
ZachK_Rocket2DMn, starcraftman just linked me the pages22:07
starcraftmanduanedesign: one page?22:07
duanedesignstarcraftman: i would hate for it to get to long and discourage people from reading it is the major drawback. I guess that would depend on the amount of info thought necessary by each group22:08
ZachK_Rocket2DMn, you're stepping down?!?!!?22:09
duanedesignand not every group would have something to contribute every few weeks22:09
Rocket2DMnZachK_, yes22:09
duanedesignstarcraftman: I always like reading the team reports from all the different teams to see what is going on22:10
duanedesignsomething like that from the FG would be neat22:10
starcraftmanduanedesign: ahhhh, I see, a unified newsletter ya mean. I gotcha, sounds good, and your right, could be a sort of rolling thing since not everyone has something going on every week.22:10
Rocket2DMnok, well let's start with an email for ourselves, and if other FGs want to try something similar, that is fine.  Discussion about implementing a unified email between FGs is material for a BT meeting discussion22:11
starcraftmanWill have to bring it up at our regular team meeting on 4TH.22:11
Rocket2DMn^5 starcraftman , we're on the same page22:11
starcraftmanRocket2DMn: Roger, just what I was saying. An intriguing idea. I Shall put it on docket.22:11
starcraftmanSo moving to last topic!22:12
* ZachK_ claps22:13
starcraftmanI'm thinking on a co-lead and I want to know who would be interested in assisting with whatever (probably most often when I'm not available or other tasks to assist). Nothing too glorious. So volunteers?22:13
Rocket2DMni would nominate drs305 and lukjad007 as candidates22:14
* ZachK_ volunteers of course22:14
drs305Just got called to work. lukjad007 would be my recommendation. Talk to you all later. Bye.22:15
lukjad007Later drs30522:15
ZachK_he left pretty fast22:15
starcraftmanand that was a quick departure.22:15
Rocket2DMnwork on a saturday, what a pity22:15
starcraftmanRocket2DMn: Worse than exams on Saturday!22:15
starcraftmanlukjad007: So you'd be interested? I put ya and zack down for consideration.22:16
lukjad007I would be interested, yes22:16
starcraftmanduanedesign: No thoughts?22:16
ZachK_be back gents...gotta eat my chicken/bacon/and ranch sandwhich22:17
duanedesignI think lukjad007 has shown a definite amount of dedication over time making hima good candidate22:17
duanedesignZachK_: me hungry too22:17
starcraftmanZachK_: later, enjoy.22:17
ZachK_starcraftman, i expect to hear results? when i get back22:17
starcraftmanWell I guess I only got two candidates atm, unless maybe I pull someone unexpected out of hat. I shall deliberate!22:18
* ZachK_ crosses fingers22:19
starcraftmanShouldn't be too long, I guess that's end of meeting unless anyone have any last minute items?22:19
ZachK_ok i'm on lunch22:19
starcraftmanK, well I guess /endmeeting22:20
starcraftmanThanks a bunch folks for showing up.22:20
starcraftmanOh and the cake I promised > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ljFaKRTrI22:20
starcraftmanToo bad drs left before.22:21
* lukjad007 secretly bribes starcraftman 22:21
starcraftmanlukjad007: lol22:21
starcraftmanI'll have ya know I have high standads lukjad007.22:21
Rocket2DMnthat was a long meeting22:21
starcraftmani.e. better be a good bribe!22:21
starcraftmanRocket2DMn: indeed, 70 minutes.22:22
duanedesign:) good meeting all22:23
starcraftmanRocket2DMn: now, how do we make the log? I can't just copy this all right? Some means of formatting right?22:23
Rocket2DMnfiles get updated every hour, so you will need to wait a bit22:25
starcraftmanRocket2DMn: ah right, thanks, that's going in bookmarks.22:25
Rocket2DMnit's not the end of the world if sometimes oy have to use logs straight from your irc client22:26
starcraftmanRocket2DMn: k.22:28
ZachK_who's the co-lead?22:52

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