[02:50] <tommost__> In #ubuntu Castawayz is spamming the bot.
[02:51] <Flannel> tommost__: Thanks
[02:51] <tommost__> Thank you.
[03:13] <ryanakca> What do you do in cases like those? (where they ask to be banned) Ignore them if they leave / don't come back?
[03:16] <nalioth> ryanakca: well, if they're just a single user in a single channel, you use your op skills to help minimize disruptions
[03:16] <nalioth> this (as you saw) was not the case here
[05:34] <maco> Primorski_Lav in #ubuntu
[05:34] <maco> trying to pick up chicks
[05:35] <maco> has been told that channel isn't for that
[09:42] <bazhang> nice part message on Tim-B
[09:43] <bazhang> err hostname
[12:52] <bazhang> sertse looks familiar
[12:54] <ikonia> don't know the nick
[12:55] <ikonia> side note - be aware bacta is drunk and is in #ubuntu-offtopic, he's just sent me a few "odd" pm's, but just be aware he's drunk (or says he is)
[12:55] <ikonia> I'm off out
[12:55] <bazhang> see you later
[12:55] <ikonia> laters
[13:33] <niko> bash fork bomb
[13:42] <Psinetic> why are the acronyms like "wtf" and "stfu" and "omfg" not allowed?
[13:42] <jrib> Psinetic: because abrasive language in general is not allowed
[13:43] <Psinetic> how does anyone know what "wtf" means?
[13:43] <Psinetic> what the fudge, white turtle fountain
[13:43] <Psinetic> seriously...
[13:43] <Psinetic> it's an acronym
[13:43] <jrib> Psinetic: that's fine, please don't use it
[13:44] <Psinetic> i'd like to see where it says that in the code of conduct
[13:44] <jrib> It also (and most of the time) means "what the f***"
[13:44] <jrib> !coc
[13:44] <Psinetic> i have seen it
[13:44] <Psinetic> it doesn't say anything about language
[13:44] <jrib> Be considerate
[13:44] <jrib> Be respectful
[13:44] <Psinetic> nothing about language
[13:45] <jrib> Psinetic: being considerate and respectful includes this
[13:45] <jrib> Psinetic: besides, I'm sure someone gave you the !language factoid when you used it to inform you of the rule
[13:46] <Psinetic> !language
[13:46] <Psinetic> which family you talking about? mine or yours
[13:46] <jrib> Psinetic: neither
[13:47] <Psinetic> my point is that that rule is relative and you should be more specific. my family says cuss words all day long, i personally don't curse, i use substitutes, and your family may not. but when enforcing rules, you should be more specific. heck, spell out the words you don't want people to say in the rules (make note of it being verbally graphic to warn users)
[13:48] <Psinetic> that's just how i see it, and that's the point i'm trying to make
[13:49] <jrib> Psinetic: I understand your point.  And certainly there is a gray area of words that are considered offensive to some and normal to others.  When that happens, ops will let you know that the language shouldn't be used (e.g. "wtf"). It's impossible to create a list of all offensive words.
[13:49] <jrib> Psinetic: to be safe, just avoid using those words, there's no need to use them
[13:50] <jrib> Psinetic: to you, it may seem ridiculous but remember ubuntu is used by people all over the world coming from many different cultures
[13:51] <Psinetic> well, this is how it came off to me, and please let me apologize for sounding rude, i think i did come off a bit edgy. it's like i use the word "gay" to represent negative connotations for things. for example, i would say "man that was gay >_>" or something like that.
[13:51] <Psinetic> someone one time really got angry at me for that
[13:51] <jussi01> I think a better way of explaining it is in our guidelines: All the #ubuntu channels are visited by people whose ages vary, and whose tolerances of language and subject choice vary equally as much. Please be considerate of everyone and keep all the #ubuntu channels friendly places for everyone.
[13:51] <Psinetic> but i didn't know why until they calmed down enough to explain it, but it still don't make sense to me
[13:52] <Psinetic> i still use that expression, but i don't think acronyms should be banned from usage as they can be used to mean anything
[13:52] <Psinetic> just as someone my say "F*** You!" I could say, "Fudge you"
[13:52] <Psinetic> doesn't mean it's a cuss word
[13:52] <jrib> Psinetic: and some of the things those particular acronyms you mentioned mean ARE offensive
[13:52] <Psinetic> so if i use, "FU" which one am i using?
[13:52] <jrib> Psinetic: it's not clear, that's why you shouldn't use it.  Some people will take it as offensive
[13:52] <Pricey> Psinetic: As a guideline, I suggest that if you believe you need to obfuscate your message, your message is not suitable.
[13:54] <Psinetic> alright. well, thanks for the clarification. might i request, or suggest, that this is clarified in the code of conduct as well? it has no mention of language at all, or even the point and idea of what ops say in the forums.
[13:54] <jrib> Psinetic: what do you suggest exactly?
[13:55] <Psinetic> your explanation above.
[13:55] <jrib> I think what jussi01 pasted was directly from the guidelines?
[13:56] <jussi01> it wsas.
[13:56] <jrib> ⸮?
[13:56] <jrib> hrmm, not symmetric
[13:56] <jussi01> s/wsas/was/
[13:57] <jussi01> tis here.
[14:04] <jussi01> Psinetic: is there anything else you need from us?
[14:04] <Psinetic> not really
[14:04] <jussi01> Psinetic: then could I ask you pay attention to our topic :)
[14:05] <Psinetic> ?
[14:05]  * jussi01 waits for Psinetic to read it again....
[14:05] <jussi01> Psinetic: I mean /topic :)
[14:06] <jussi01> !idle | Psinetic
[14:06] <Psinetic> ah....sry, lol, i'm still getting used to irc's...haha, the topic doesn't mean what we're talking about as per se, rather, what it says at the top of the screen regarding the entire channel XD
[14:06] <jussi01> :)
[14:06] <Psinetic> hmmmm ok
[14:06] <Psinetic> thanks for your help
[15:19] <bazhang> bullgard4, how may we help you
[15:24] <jussi01> bazhang: ikonia's ban
[15:25] <bazhang> jussi01, right, just trying to see if he is responding or not
[15:59] <vox> we should create an #ubuntu-pickups channel
[15:59] <bazhang> ugh
[15:59] <vox> heh
[16:00] <bazhang> that is not really funny in light of all the abuse that -women have had to endure, not to mention -ot
[16:00] <vox> it was aimed more at irony than humour
[16:01] <bazhang> ubuntu_ seems to be trolling
[16:01] <bazhang> I know
[16:01] <jussi01> vox: youll find irc doesnt translate humor and irony too well..
[16:02] <vox> jussi01: well yes, this is true
[17:10] <bazhang> masterbob/psinetic in -ot
[17:39] <MenZa> bazhang: hm?
[18:10] <KB1JWQ> Anwar is pasting repeatedly in #ubuntu
[18:12] <KB1JWQ> He's gone.
[18:14] <bazhang> assembly code :)
[18:15] <KB1JWQ> Seriously.  That's... a little out of scope for most users here. :-)
[18:15] <maco> bazhang: we've talked about that before actually...in #ubuntu-women
[18:15] <maco> bazhang: about setting up like #ubuntu-hot-babes or #ubuntu-pickups and having an eliza bot or two in there
[18:15] <bazhang> true :)
[18:15] <bazhang> maco, interesting
[18:15] <maco> and auto banning anyone who joined it from #ubuntu-women ;)
[18:16] <maco> like if you join that channel, youre banned from u-w
[18:16] <niko> ahah
[18:16] <bazhang> my initial response was probably knee-jerk, but then I was made op in -ru at the outset to combat some of the worst of it
[18:16] <KB1JWQ> Forget the Eliza bot, you could rename a pony bot and call it good, given most users who troll for that stuff on IRC.
[18:16] <bazhang> until -women opped every member practically
[18:17] <maco> i think about 1/4 of us have ops in ther
[18:31] <xorred> ola all
[18:32] <xorred> can I appeal my ubuntu ban here?
[18:32] <xorred> since like ... 2-3 months?
[18:47] <MenZa> xorred: Someone with bantracker access should assist you shortly.
[18:48]  * MenZa pokes bazhang 
[18:48] <xorred> cool
[18:49] <MenZa> I can see you ban, but I can't see who set it.
[18:49] <MenZa>  *** 313 - #ubuntu: ban *!*@unaffiliated/xorred [by douglas.freenode.net, 1290846 secs ago]
[18:49] <bazhang> ikonia, is not around right now afaict
[18:50] <MenZa> (For the record, it's only been half a month since that was set)
[18:50] <bazhang> looks like August 12th
[18:51] <bazhang> xorred, have you read the code of conduct and the irc guidelines?
[18:51] <bazhang> !coc | xorred
[18:51] <bazhang> !guidelines | xorred
[18:51] <xorred> the reason I got banned is getting mad at someone, and my personal belief is he deserved it
[18:51] <xorred> the way I reacted in the public channel was not nice... next time I'll just pm what I think
[18:51] <bazhang> xorred, please read through those
[18:51] <xorred> ok
[19:09] <bazhang> xorred, have you read those documents?
[19:09] <xorred> yes, and I don't see a point where one member insults the member 2, and member 2 replies and gets banned...
[19:09] <bazhang> xorred, you are aware of why you were banned?
[19:09] <xorred> yes, bad behaviour in channel
[19:10] <xorred> but only one side of the bad behavior got banned, which is something I don't want to disput
[19:10] <ikonia> hello
[19:10] <xorred> hello, ikonia
[19:10] <ikonia> bazhang: you called
[19:10] <bazhang> ikonia, I gave him the coc and guidelines to read
[19:10] <bazhang> which he has done
[19:11] <ikonia> oh, xorred
[19:12] <ikonia> can you give me 2 minutes please
[19:12] <ikonia> bazhang: please continue if you're happy
[19:13] <bazhang> ikonia, no problem
[19:15] <MenZa> xorred: Sending someone angry messages in a /query is not allowed by the CoC either.
[19:15] <MenZa> xorred: I hope you realise this.
[19:15] <bazhang> xorred, having read the coc and the guidelines, you still maintain that your actions were justified?
[19:16] <xorred> I had a reaction to his words
[19:16] <xorred> and I don't think these were justified either
[19:16] <xorred> yes, I know the coc was broken by me
[19:16] <xorred> but it was not caused by vacuum
[19:17] <ikonia> my words ? the ones giving you the answer of how to do a server install on a cd
[19:17] <ikonia> yes, you ask a question, I gave you a working answer - how is that not justified ?
[19:18] <ikonia> "without" a cd I should say
[19:18] <ikonia> then you started ranting about design flaws in ubuntu
[19:18] <xorred> I said again, I don't want to disput what happened then
[19:18] <ikonia> yet you are doing
[19:18] <ikonia> you're telling people my words where unjustified
[19:18] <ikonia> when in reality I gave you the answer to the question you asked
[19:18] <xorred> ikonia, that specific version I used was impossible to install from usb
[19:19] <ikonia> the phrase you're looking for is "I'm sorry I was rude, my attitude was uncalled for"
[19:19] <ikonia> xorred: then you where not using ubuntu - as all the ubuntu images worked
[19:19] <xorred> actually, I am not looking for anything except un-banning my account
[19:20] <ikonia> well - then I suggest you look at your attitude
[19:20] <ikonia> and instead of trying to make people believe your actions where justified, look at the facts, you asked a question, for some reason didn't like the answer and was rude
[19:22] <ikonia> telling people in #kubuntu lies - also doesn't help
[19:22] <ikonia> no-one was "dissing you" so telling people you got mad because people where dissing you is nonsense - so I'll ask you again to consider your behaviour in general
[19:25] <xorred> I know  for myself, that my behaviour was not caused by a nice talking or a nice conversation, in "nice" being polite and non-humiliating
[19:25] <ikonia> xorred: I'm happy to make the logs of the conversation available to you
[19:25] <xorred> yet if you ask me to fall on my knees to beg you for an unban - that will not happen
[19:25] <ikonia> xorred: you can re-read them and see there was nothing rude or humiliating in there other than your own behaviour
[19:26] <ikonia> I'm asking you to fall on your knees I'm asking you to look at your behaviour in general, in any of the ubuntu channels
[19:26] <xorred> ikonia, there is no smoke without fire, have you heard of that?
[19:26] <ikonia> thats nonsense
[19:26] <xorred> ok, nonsense
[19:26] <ikonia> again - I'll offer the logs to you to read them for your self
[19:26] <ikonia> that way you can see you just didn't like the answer - and you where rude in the channel
[19:27] <ikonia> but as I said look at your behaviour in the other channels, eg: your lies/mouthing off in #kubuntu a few minutes ago, while I understand you are frustrated, just stop for a moment and consider what you're saying to people
[19:28] <ikonia> I can grab the logs for you if you want ?
[19:28] <xorred> I don't want to waste your or my time in reading logs and disputing them 2 hours more here or elsewhere
[19:28] <xorred> just accept I have learnt my lesson
[19:29] <bazhang> this seems to be going in circles
[19:29] <ikonia> no
[19:29] <xorred> indeed
[19:29] <ikonia> you don't seem to have learnt your lesson as you still feel your behvaiour is justified and you still seem to be offering non-factual information to people
[19:29] <bazhang> checking the logs xorred you were out of line
[19:30] <xorred> yes, I could have just shut up
[19:30] <xorred> sorry for expressing emotions too far
[19:30] <ikonia> thats fine, everyone gets frustrated
[19:31] <bazhang> happens to everyone
[19:31] <ikonia> I'm more concered that you feel that it's justified (reading your recent comments in #kubuntu)
[19:31] <ikonia> apprantly I deserved it and I was dissing you
[19:31] <ikonia> which is nonsese
[19:31] <ikonia> which is why I'm suggesting you re-read the logs to actually look at your behaviour
[19:32] <ikonia> everyone slips up - no question of it, I'm more concerned by the fact that you see things such as people "dissing you" where that is not the case, and then feel it acceptable to react to that
[19:32] <xorred> ikonia, if somebody speaks nicely to you - smiling, etc - can you spit them in the face in anger?
[19:33] <xorred> which is overexpressed again, but you get my point
[19:33] <ikonia> I don't know what you mean or how that's relevent
[19:33] <xorred> I mean that there is no possible way on earth I could have started feeling this way if it was uncalled for
[19:33] <ikonia> I understand that, which is why I'm asking you to read the logs so that you can see it was totally uncalled for
[19:34] <xorred> as I said, I overreacted
[19:34] <xorred> but it wasnot an overreaction on vacuum
[19:34] <ikonia> I don't know what that means ?
[19:34] <xorred> I don't want to continue this arguement
[19:34] <ikonia> ok - then we'll leave it there
[19:35] <xorred> you'll keep my account banned?
[19:35] <xorred> or you want to continue the arguement
[19:35] <xorred> what do you want ikonia
[19:35] <ikonia> I'm not arguing with you, I'm expressing concern that if the ban is lifted you'll re-join the channel, take offense at people helping you again and over react again
[19:35] <ikonia> I'm concerned that you're seeing people insulting you where no-one is
[19:36] <ikonia> and you may over-react again
[19:36] <ikonia> which based on your comments in #kubuntu you see as fine if people deserve it
[19:36] <xorred> let's ban me again if I insult someone first, ok?
[19:36] <ikonia> no
[19:36] <bazhang> xorred, no
[19:38] <ikonia> I'm afraid I'll need to step away for 15 - 30 minutes, but I just wanted to explain my reasonings to you
[19:38] <ikonia> bazhang: thank you for the hilight
[19:39] <bazhang> ikonia, no problem
[19:55] <MenZa> xorred: Can we help you with anything else today?
[19:56] <xorred> I still dont understand will you guys unban me on #ubuntu
[19:56] <MenZa> xorred: If not, please note our no-idling policy.
[19:56] <MenZa> xorred: As far as I can tell, you've already had this discussion with bazhang and ikonia.
[19:57] <MenZa> !appeals | xorred
[19:57] <xorred> the discussion was me understanding that I was wrong, but they never told me will I get unbanned or not
[19:57] <MenZa> Please see the link there if you insist on having your ban lifted.
[19:57] <MenZa> [2009-10-24 18:36:13 UTC] < xorred> let's ban me again if I insult someone first, ok?
[19:57] <MenZa> [2009-10-24 18:36:18 UTC] <+ikonia> no
[19:57] <MenZa> You won't.
[19:57] <xorred> ok, I'll follow the process
[19:58]  * jussi01 coughs in MenZa's direction....
[20:19] <MenZa> jussi01: Hello.
[20:22] <jussi01> MenZa: you dont have bt access?
[20:22]  * jussi01 eyes MenZa
[20:22] <MenZa> jussi01: Wait, I do?
[20:22] <MenZa> Oh wait, tsimpson *did* give me access.
[20:22] <MenZa> woops.
[20:22]  * MenZa hides from jussi01 
[20:23] <tsimpson> actually, I don't think you have access
[20:23] <tonyyarusso> stupid bot
[20:23] <tonyyarusso> @login
[20:23] <tonyyarusso> no, kompozer is a WYSIWYG HTML editor for easily creating web pages, and the continuation of the dead Nvu project.  It is available in !Universe on !Gutsy and later releases.  Note that there is a GTK incompatibility in !Intrepid and !Jaunty, so users of those releases should use the !PPA at https://launchpad.net/~giuseppe-iuculano/+archive/ppa instead.
[20:23] <MenZa> 2login
[20:23] <tsimpson> MenZa: try @btlogin
[20:23] <MenZa> I mean
[20:23] <MenZa> @login
[20:23] <MenZa> @btlogin
[20:23] <tsimpson> didn't think so
[20:23] <MenZa> @whoami
[20:23] <MenZa> humm.
[20:23] <MenZa> so hah, jussi01!
[20:23] <tsimpson> as long as someone on the IRCC says it's ok, I'll give you access
[20:24] <tonyyarusso> MenZa: try your btlogin again - it seems to have a bit of a lag
[20:24] <tsimpson> it won't work
[20:24] <tonyyarusso> well fine then
[20:25] <tonyyarusso> You be all up in your "oh, I have access to the list, look at me!"
[20:25] <tonyyarusso> :P
[20:25] <MenZa> :D
[20:25] <tsimpson> tonyyarusso: it needs a special privilege to get access, separate from editing factoids
[20:25] <tonyyarusso> tsimpson: Yeah, but I have no idea who has that priv or not - you do ;)
[20:26]  * tsimpson is all knowing
[20:26]  * MenZa cowers in fear
[20:26] <tsimpson> I just want someone to say it's OK, don't want to go over some ones head
[20:27] <tsimpson> procedures, procedures, procedures
[20:27] <jussi01> tsimpson: not yet.
[20:27] <MenZa> I don't need bt access if I'm not a member of the ircteam. ;)
[20:27]  * MenZa is the debating type, not the banning type.
[20:27] <tsimpson> you see, that's why I ask :)
[20:27] <MenZa> Well, mostly. :P
[20:28] <MenZa> Speaking of, jussi01 - how are my records?
[20:28] <tsimpson> maybe it's an idea to separate access by channel for BT2
[20:28] <ikonia> tsimpson: can you update my bot access privs please, the last restore of the ubottu database lost them
[20:28] <MenZa> tsimpson: the more modularity, the better.
[20:28] <jussi01> MenZa: records?
[20:28] <MenZa> jussi01: I told you to notify me if you had any comments about any of my actions. Any? :)
[20:28] <jussi01> MenZa: well...
[20:28] <jussi01> :P
[20:29] <MenZa> tsimpson: could do groups - a bt group, an editfact group, etc.
[20:29] <MenZa> tsimpson: flags, even.
[20:29] <tsimpson> ikonia: what privileges are you lacking?
[20:29] <tsimpson> MenZa: there already is that
[20:29] <ikonia> factoid edit
[20:29] <MenZa> tsimpson: oh.
[20:29] <ikonia> must dash
[20:29] <MenZa> tsimpson: so what's the problem, in that sense?
[20:30] <tsimpson> @capability add ikonia editfactoids
[20:30] <tsimpson> @Admin capability add ikonia editfactoids
[20:30] <tsimpson> MenZa: I'm just thinking maybe an op in one channel doesn't need to access bans for another channel
[20:31] <tsimpson> right now they are all lumped together
[20:31] <jussi01> tsimpson: given that bt2 will be open to all...
[20:31] <MenZa> tsimpson: From a theoretical point of view, I agree. From an #ubuntu* point of view, well...
[20:32] <tsimpson> MenZa: I intentionally added "maybe" to that sentence ;)
[20:32] <jussi01> see with bt2 _everyone_ can see _everything_
[20:33] <tsimpson> it'd need some discussion on practicality, implementation and design if it's needed at all
[20:34] <tsimpson> with bt2 we can (theoretically) access the LP group(s) a user is in, and change what a user can see
[20:35] <jussi01> tsimpson: wait a sec. as Ive said, bt2 will be open to the public. why would we need access control like that?
[20:36] <tsimpson> jussi01: just for privacy issues, for non-logged channels
[20:36] <tsimpson> with publicly logged channels there is no issue
[20:36] <jussi01> ahh, good point.
[20:36] <tsimpson> but then we need to decide about how public operator comments should be
[20:56] <guntbert> you might want to have a look at WanHouse aka  Tjohejs in #ubuntu - random comments,....
[20:56] <Flannel> Meh.  BTs broken?
[20:57] <guntbert> Flannel: ?
[20:57] <Flannel> guntbert: Not you, I'll take a look.
[20:57] <guntbert> Flannel: ah - got it :)
[21:15] <Flannel> Can anyone confirm BTs not working? or is it something funky on my end?
[21:15] <Flannel> If it's working, do you have one or two slashes after ubottu.com?
[21:16] <Flannel> (not that I need to remind anyone, but just in case: don't paste your login URLs here!)
[21:19] <jussi01> Flannel: wfm
[21:19] <jussi01> and 1
[21:20] <Flannel> hmm, I guess I'll try deleting my cookies
[23:18] <maco> note: reklama = spammer (just spammed #ubuntu and then left)
[23:21] <guntbert> its me again - reklama is repeatedly spamming #ubuntu channel on entry and leaving
[23:22] <wgrant> #ubuntu+1 has been hit just once so far.
[23:22] <guntbert> wgrant: yesterday it was the same (at least in #ubuntu)
[23:27] <ikonia> lets see
[23:27] <ikonia> is it always the same guy ?
[23:28] <wgrant> ikonia: Thanks.
[23:28] <guntbert> ikonia: always reklama
[23:28] <ikonia> ok, so lets see what/how he deals with that
[23:28] <ikonia> thanks for the heads up
[23:29] <guntbert> and the last times the same IP too
[23:29] <guntbert> bye :)
[23:29] <ikonia> lets see what happens
[23:29] <ikonia> thanks !
[23:30] <guntbert> you are welcome :-)
[23:59] <niko> hi erUSUL