[01:24] <symptom> hello, can anyone point me towards a good tutorial on how to build drivers for Linux
[01:31] <TheMuso> symptom: What kind of driver?
[01:32] <symptom> something really simple.  Just trying to learn.
[01:37] <TheMuso> symptom: Yes, but drivers for X, and drivers for sound cards for example, are done somewhat differently.
[01:38] <TheMuso> i.e X drivers are in userspace, and sound drivers are in kernelspace.
[02:50] <slangasek> TheMuso: hotkey-setup was already gone from main, I've now purged it from the archive, I suggest you drop the recommends, yes :)
[02:57] <TheMuso> slangasek: Ok will do. I've also been asked by the otehr studio devs to remove empathy from the default install but ship pidgin on the disks, not being installed. That will also be included in the meta upload. If you feel its too late for such changes, it can be reverted.
[03:47] <ScottK> TheMuso: I think it's really up to Ubuntu Studio to decide what it wants to do on that.
[03:51] <TheMuso> ScottK: Right, I was thinking more about how late things are to be changed etc, anyway I'll push the meta once its updated.
[03:51] <ScottK> We haven't started working on final ISOs yet, so I think it's fine.
[03:53] <TheMuso> Right.
[05:34] <ous335> hi i need help with ubuntu, my wireless is not working
[05:37] <lifeless> #ubuntu
[05:39] <ous335> plz help
[05:42] <ScottK> ous335: This isn't a help channel.  Ask in #ubuntu.
[05:43] <ous335> how do i go there
[05:47] <ScottK> The same way you got here, but instead of joining #ubuntu-devel, join #ubuntu
[09:01] <hrickards> Should a bug report be marked as a duplicate if the two errors reported are very similar but not the same and the cause of the error is the same?
[09:03] <joaopinto> hrickards, if the bug causing the message is the same, they are duplicates :)
[09:03] <hrickards> joapinto: Oh yeah. Nice way of putting it. :)
[09:04]  * hrickards feels like an idiot after the way joapinto put it. :(
[11:29] <gizero> In Jaunty you could quicly switch user by selecting the other user's name in the drop-down menu in the top-right corner of the screen. In Karmic you have to choose Switch User... there instead and it brings you to the regular login dialog. This is so much slower; my girlfriend and I constantly switch back and forth between our accounts. Why was this change made?
[11:32] <lifeless> gdm got rewritten
[11:32] <lifeless> the facility to figure out what other users have sessions was broken by that, and has not yet been recreated.
[11:32] <lifeless> there is a bug open on one of the indicator/messaging projects, and it should be fine in lucid
[11:33] <gizero> lifeless, Excellent, nice to know the feature wasn't removed intentionally
[11:35] <gizero> Looks like it's bug 425550
[11:35] <lifeless> gizero: claims to be fixed, are you fully up to date?
[11:39] <gizero> Yeah, I installed the RC yesterday, and installed all updates in Update Manager 15 hours ago
[11:39] <wgrant> lifeless: It was sort of reverted.
[11:39] <wgrant> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-session/trunk/revision/47
[11:43] <gizero> wgrant, Shounds like the bug should be reopened then
[11:44] <wgrant> gizero: Probably.
[11:45] <TheMuso> slangasek: Do you have any objection to dropping pt and es langpacks from powerpc Ubuntu CDs to ensure the alternate is not oversized?
[12:05] <cjwatson> TheMuso: dropping langpacks as necessary for size is usually fine
[12:07] <sebner> mighty cjwatson , some friend asked me about grub invaders. Should still be in grub2, right? Not seeing it though
[12:08] <TheMuso> cjwatson: ok
[12:10] <cjwatson> sebner: never heard of it
[12:10] <cjwatson> sebner: if it's some kind of grub extension, I expect that it would require a rewrite to work with grub2
[12:11] <cjwatson> sebner: if it's something that you boot from grub, then it should be reasonably easy to get it to work wiith grub2
[12:13] <sebner> cjwatson: space invaders in grub. I've found an old mail in debian archive about fixing it in grub2 .. from 2007 though
[12:13] <sebner> boot from grub iirc
[12:14] <cjwatson> sebner: afraid I don't know, don't really have time to focus on fixing up games :)
[12:14] <sebner> cjwatson: yeah, really np
[12:16] <sebner> cjwatson: there is a package grub-invaders. Wondering if this was installed default or included in grub some time in the past. Anyways, thx for you help
[12:17] <cjwatson> it was never installed by default
[13:11] <switchgirl> hi in karmic sd cards don't auto mount
[13:12] <switchgirl> anyone working on that?
[13:43] <spaetz_> karmic kernel started oopsing continously now
[13:44] <spaetz_> CRDA: Error: command ['iw', 'reg', 'get'] failed with exit code 1: nl80211 not found.
[15:16] <Kano> cjwatson: why is iso-scan not working with ext4 partitions
[17:29] <Amaranth> anyone else being told they're being removed from ubuntu-devel due to excessive bounces?
[17:29] <Amaranth> I can't believe gmail would be bouncing regular list mail but not the notice of removal...
[17:52] <dtchen> Amaranth: yes, at least two others (maco and me)
[17:53] <maco> oh didnt know you got one too dtchen. why didnt you say so when i mentioned it this morning?
[18:02] <Laney> yeah everyone got one I think
[18:02] <Laney> it sounds like that anyway
[18:17] <jelkner> jono: are you here?
[18:17] <maco> jelkner: hi jeff!
[18:17] <jelkner> maco: hi
[18:18] <jono> jelkner, yeah
[18:18] <jono> :)
[18:18] <jelkner> i have a problem with an unassigned high priority bug that is destroying my life
[18:19] <jelkner> (i exaggerate a little, but not much ;-)
[18:19] <maco> haha
[18:19] <jelkner> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxcb/+bug/419501
[18:19] <jelkner> i kills gasp
[18:20] <jelkner> around which i've built all the python teaching materials i use
[18:20] <jelkner> so i won't be able to run karmic
[18:20] <jelkner> i didn't want to be a pest
[18:21] <jelkner> so since it was a high priority bug i figured i'd just wait
[18:21] <jelkner> but with release this week
[18:21] <jelkner> it doesn't look good for me
[18:21] <jono> jelkner, ahhh thats a shame
[18:21] <jono> looking at the bug now
[18:22] <jelkner> the bug is in debian squeeze also
[18:22] <jelkner> i checked yesterday
[18:23] <jelkner> i'm downloading fedora 12 now to see if it has the same problem
[18:24] <jono> jelkner, what would like me to do to help?
[18:26] <jelkner> jono: explain to me how the bugs get assigned
[18:26] <jelkner> and if there is anyone i could talk to about this
[18:27] <jono> jelkner, it gets assigned to whoever volunteers to fix it
[18:27] <jelkner> ahh
[18:27] <jono> unless a platform manager assigns it to a member of their team
[18:28] <jelkner> can one talk to a platform manager?
[18:28] <jelkner> and make an appeal
[18:30] <jelkner> is there a bounty process or something?
[18:31] <jelkner> i *really* would like to see this fixed
[18:31] <jelkner> and i can't fix it
[18:31] <zooko> jelkner: there is no bounty process, but I guess you could always try offering people money and see if they accept.  :-)
[18:32] <jelkner> i don't even know who to ask
[18:32] <jelkner> zooko: r u interested?
[18:32] <zooko> Your best bet is probably to generate specific, reproducible facts about it, such as whether it also happens in Debian and Fedora, what exact version first introduced it, etc.
[18:32] <zooko> jelkner: sorry, I am not.  I am just trying to help.
[18:32] <jelkner> it has to do with the new x library i believe
[18:33] <jelkner> i've filed bug reports, but they came back as duplicate bugs
[18:33] <jelkner> so i'm perfectly willing to do what you suggest, zooko, i just don't know how
[18:33] <zooko> Yes, filing a bug report is certainly the first step.
[18:34] <jelkner> that's why i'm here
[18:34] <jelkner> been there, done that
[18:34] <jelkner> months ago
[18:34] <zooko> Well, do you know how to compile different versions of the X libs in question?
[18:34] <jelkner> i guess i could
[18:35] <zooko> If, for example, you could identify that version X didn't have this problem and version X+1 did, that would help.
[18:36] <zooko> By the way, I'm not an Ubuntu dev, just a random person hanging out trying to help, but my guess is that it is too late to get this fixed for Karmic.
[18:36] <zooko> Fortunately Karmic isn't the end of the world.
[18:37] <maco> might be SRU-able...
[18:38] <dupondje> hmz, final grub2 came out ...
[18:38] <dupondje> will it get into Karmic ?
[18:39] <maco> jelkner: if you can play around and find out when in the libxcb version history the bug was introduced....
[18:39] <maco> dupondje: grub2 is in karmic...
[18:40] <dupondje> beta4 :)
[18:40] <dupondje> but the final 1.97 came out today
[18:46] <maco> oh
[18:47] <cr3> what's a good format for documenting a project? I have often seen text files under a doc directory in the root of projects, but I'd rather stay away from pure text to allow for greater formatting. so, what is most common? docbook? straight html? latex?
[18:49] <arand> dupondje: at this stage, probably not, unless the bugs it fixes are serious...
[18:50] <GodfatherofEire> Would this be the right channel to make a suggestion to the dev team or should I go to #ubuntu-motu?
[18:52] <GodfatherofEire> specifically for something to keep in mind/think about for lucid.
[18:53] <arand> dupondje: but that is not in any way an official answer, (I'm no dev)
[18:54] <dupondje> :)
[18:54] <dupondje> trying to get grub2 working with dmraid :s
[18:56] <maco> cr3: docbook is common
[18:57] <maco> GodfatherofEire: say what it is and go from there?
[18:57] <maco> GodfatherofEire: or try the ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
[18:58] <GodfatherofEire> maco, it would be with regard to the empathy IM client replacing pidgin, add to that that libempathy is a requirement for the message notification applet.
[18:58] <maco> if youre one of the people upset that pidgin was replaced, its been discussed to death
[18:58] <GodfatherofEire> maco, its not just that, its not ready for full scale deployment
[18:59] <maco> i doubt theyre gonna switch back after one release with it. more likely, submit bugs to empathy upstream and try to get them looked at
[19:00] <GodfatherofEire> If it had everything there, and if the notification applet didnt depend on libempathy (which takes up space, as its basically just the same as pidgin-data)
[19:00] <GodfatherofEire> maco, they already know whats wrong with it (like, no /msg, /join, /quit etc, protocols for IRC)
[19:01] <GodfatherofEire> as well as lack of password support, which pidgin already has
[19:01] <maco> and im sure at least some of that'll be fixed by lucid anyway
[19:01] <GodfatherofEire> like they say, "if it aint broke, dont fix it"
[19:01] <maco> if you know C you could probably help...?
[19:01] <maco> i assume empathy is C...most gnome is
[19:02] <GodfatherofEire> not too familiar with C, although it probably wouldnt take very long to learn
[19:04] <GodfatherofEire> and is it just me or does that also screw up the user switcher (the set status functionality)?
[19:04] <GodfatherofEire> (its removal)
[19:06] <GodfatherofEire> lastly, are you guys ever gonna fix the log out sound, or is it just gonna be one of ubuntu's quirks?
[19:43] <Julien13012> HI Everyone
[19:46] <Julien13012> Do someone know the release day of 9.10 ?
[19:47] <Laney> thursday
[19:47] <Julien13012> 29th ???
[19:48] <dtchen> Julien13012: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
[19:49] <Julien13012> thanks
[19:58] <cjwatson> dupondje: I'm not planning on putting the final grub 1.97 into karmic. I'd hoped that it would be released a week ago, in which case I'd absolutely have tried, but it's really too late now and I don't think I can justify it
[20:00] <cjwatson> dupondje: it's not going to make any difference to dmraid over 1.97~beta4
[20:00] <dupondje> yea true :)
[20:00] <dupondje> trying to get dmraid & grub2 working atm
[20:00] <dupondje> seems its a no-go :(
[20:01] <cjwatson> that's why the installer defaults to grub legacy for dmraid right now
[20:01] <dtchen> evand: thanks for the mailing list work!
[20:02] <evand> dtchen: elmo did the hard work, but thanks
[20:03] <dupondje> cjwatson: I know :) just like to try :)
[20:03] <dupondje> btw, could you get https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptitude/+bug/391035 into Karmic ? its quite annoying bug for me in aptitude
[20:04] <dupondje> but prolly not important enough to get in it anyway :)
[20:05] <cjwatson> that doesn't look release-critical, I'm afraid
[20:06] <cjwatson> and the patch is pretty suspicious, what if somebody has a >400-column terminal?
[20:06] <cjwatson> that should be allocated dynamically rather than statically
[20:07] <dupondje> true
[20:07] <dupondje> tho the bug should still get fixed ;)
[20:08] <cjwatson> I'm certainly not going to last-minute a patch that improperly fixes an issue affecting a small number of users in a way that can easily be worked around - sorry
[20:08] <cjwatson> I suggest looking into dynamic allocation, and getting that sorted out for lucid
[20:09] <dupondje> true :) the patch could been better ;)
[20:09] <dupondje> had Jaunty since Alpha 4
[20:09] <dupondje> Karmic since Alpha 2
[20:10] <dupondje> Lucid since Pre-Alpha ? ;)
[20:32] <ericrw> droid
[20:32] <ericrw> [that should've been, "/join #android".  (this is not the droid I am looking for)]
[20:50] <cjwatson> dupondje: brave, alpha 1 tends to be "the first point at which we could get it to work at all"
[21:31] <Keybuk> cjwatson: I wouldn't even go that far
[21:31] <Keybuk> Alpha 1 (especially this time) is "something booted for someone, ship it!"
[21:36] <didrocks> ScottK: concerning the quickly crash, I'm waiting for pitti's feedback tomorrow on python-distutils-extra to know if he will revert his change
[21:37] <ScottK> didrocks: python-distutils-extra is in Main, so unless this affects a lot of packages, I'd plan on fixing quickly.
[21:38] <didrocks> ScottK: ok, I don't know how to avoid python-distutils-extra moving my .desktop.in file in data/ directory, but I'll try to find a workaround.
[21:38] <ion> keybuk: Any thoughts about bug #458389 vs. bug #215666? :-) I still think usplash could simply disable the CLEAR command when in verbose mode. I don’t see leaving old status messages to the screen with a normal, quiet boot, as a good thing.
[21:40] <Keybuk> ion: didn't you send me patches for those?
[21:40] <Keybuk> that's a good idea, if you haven't, send me a patch! :)
[21:40] <Keybuk> I'll do the pending usplash and mountall bits tomorrrow
[21:40] <Keybuk> (or when I get out of the bath in a bit :p)
[21:41] <ScottK> didrocks: Universe has a later cutoff than Main, so even if pitti does change python-distutils-extra back, we'd have time to revert any quickly fix you might come up with, so I'd say please go ahead if you figure it out.
[21:41] <ion> keybuk: Kees’ changes are kind of conflicting with my patches. My commits were made before those changes; they didn’t take the “stuff cleared from the screen when in verbose mode” issue into account at all.
[21:41] <Keybuk> ion: if you think your patches are better, I can review them and work out which to take :p
[21:42] <Keybuk> I like your idea that CLEAR just doesn't work on verbose - it makes an amount of sense
[21:42] <Keybuk> or maybe works more like the console?
[21:42] <Keybuk> where we don't clear, but we don't repeat either?
[21:42] <didrocks> ScottK: ok. I'll try some stuff (just going to bed and think about it first ;)) and keep you in touch.
[21:42] <ion> keybuk: In the bug comments, Kees disagrees with my idea that CLEAR could be disabled in verbose mode.
[21:44] <ScottK> didrocks: OK  Have a good night.
[21:44] <Keybuk> ion: Kees may not be right ;)
[21:45] <Keybuk> if you can give me a patch, I'll have a think
[21:45]  * Keybuk bbl
[21:45] <ion> keybuk: I’ll do that.
[22:06] <EagleScreen> dkms is unable to install bcmwl kernel module in 9.10
[22:09] <ScottK> EagleScreen: Not true.  I did it on Tuesday.
[22:09] <EagleScreen> it cannot do it now
[22:09] <EagleScreen> i have installed Kubuntu right now with alternate CD
[22:10] <EagleScreen> how can I find out why dkms cannot install the module?
[22:10] <EagleScreen> I have installed the package directly, not using jockey
[22:11] <EagleScreen> there is an error when dkms tries to install the module
[22:11] <Keybuk> wow
[22:12] <Keybuk> I'm glad we left the back door in karmic, so I can read your screen and see that error
[22:12] <Keybuk> it totally helps
[22:12] <Keybuk> otherwise we wouldn't have a clue what was wrong, and wouldn't be able to help

[22:12] <azeem> by the time you wrote all this, you could've fixed it already!
[22:13] <Keybuk> azeem: we secretly have fixed it, we're just not realising the fix because we're mean :p
[22:14] <EagleScreen> this is the error in terminal http://pastebin.ca/1643123
[22:14] <Keybuk> EagleScreen: ok, I have to be fair; that is the world's most useless error
[22:15] <Keybuk> is there a /var/log/dkms or something similar?
[22:15] <EagleScreen> yes this is /var/log/dkms_autoinstaller: http://pastebin.ca/1643124
[22:15] <EagleScreen> not much neither
[22:15] <Keybuk> EagleScreen: ok, now look in /var/log/dmesg
[22:15] <Keybuk> can you pastebin that too?
[22:15] <ScottK> Also in fairness I didn't use jockey either.
[22:16] <EagleScreen> dmesg: http://pastebin.ca/1643125
[22:16] <EagleScreen> (var7log/dmesg)
[22:16] <ScottK> My swag is since he's using Kubuntu, there's no policykit integration and some piece of jockey lacks some permission it needs
[22:17] <EagleScreen> ok, I think i have found the problem
[22:17] <EagleScreen> buid-essential is not installed
[22:18] <EagleScreen> shouldn't dkms or dkms packages depend on it?
[22:18] <Keybuk> yeah, that's arguably a bug
[22:18] <Keybuk> Depends: module-init-tools, gcc, make | build-essential | dpkg-dev
[22:18] <Keybuk> so if you had make or dpkg-dev already installed, it wouldn't drag in b-e
[22:22] <EagleScreen> make and gcc are installed
[22:23] <Keybuk> yeah that'd be why then
[22:23] <Keybuk> I'd file a bug about that
[22:23] <Keybuk> *and* I'd file a bug that "fail" is the most it can manage for an error
[22:25] <EagleScreen> thanks a lot
[22:28] <azeem> EagleScreen: I think that was an encouragement that *you* should file those bugs
[22:30] <EagleScreen> yes
[22:44] <ion> keybuk: Ok, pushed to https://code.launchpad.net/~ion/usplash/karmic and https://code.launchpad.net/~ion/ubuntu/karmic/mountall/karmic
[22:45] <ion> keybuk: The mountall branch also contains the try_mounts fix.
[22:45] <Keybuk> ion: I see -r334 and -r145
[22:46] <Keybuk> is that right
[22:46] <Keybuk> ?
[22:46] <ion> keybuk: Yes, the latest commit messages should be ‘Undo recent CLEAR changes...’ for mountall and ‘Reverse the ignore logic...’ for usplash.
[22:47] <Keybuk> ok
[22:49] <Keybuk> hmm
[22:49] <Keybuk> *thinks about the usplash patch*
[22:49] <Keybuk> CLEAR should certainly work when !verbose
[22:50] <ion> And when it’s verbose, multiple clients may be outputting text (say, sysvrc scripts and mountall), and either might accidentally CLEAR something the other one wanted to show.
[22:50] <Keybuk> yeah, but that's just a usplash design flaw
[22:51] <ion> which can be worked around for karmic with a single ‘!’ removal. ;-)
[22:52] <Keybuk> yeah but it's wrong for the fsck case
[22:52] <Keybuk> you'd get scrolling progress text that's ugrly
[22:53] <Keybuk> I think kees's patch is part right, and yours is too
[22:53] <Keybuk> we should only display the bored text once, without a CLEAR, and not update it once a second (unless maybe things change?)
[22:53] <Keybuk> but usplash should always honour CLEAR
[22:53] <Keybuk> that way the only time it is used is when an fsck is happening, to keep it all at the same point on the screen
[22:53] <Keybuk> does that make sense?
[22:55] <ion> Yeah, that should work. I was just a bit reluctant to change the progress display logic that much this near to release, thinking the usplash workaround would be good enough for now.
[22:55] <Keybuk> yeah, I just don't like *inverting* logic right before release ;)
[22:55] <Keybuk> invertion leads to surprises
[22:55] <Keybuk> at least enabling something doesn't so much
[22:55] <ion> True
[22:58] <ion> In the surprise case, that would still only lead to text being left on the screen.