[00:00] <doctormo> by the way, how is Vantax doing on the style sheets for moodle?
[00:00] <cprofitt> to be honest I am not sure...
[00:00] <cprofitt> I have not asked him about it.
[00:00] <cprofitt> do you know anything about Latex?
[00:01] <cprofitt> doctormo, other than the logo -- what did you think of the slide background?
[00:01] <doctormo> I know a little about Latex
[00:01] <doctormo> I think it's good, it's nice and light, which is good for readability.
[00:02] <cprofitt> A person asked me to convert that image to Latex
[00:04] <doctormo> That doesn't make sense to me, I always figured images like that were set as importable objects and that what you really made in latex was akind of positional template for various elements.
[00:04] <cprofitt> I will have to ask him then...
[00:05] <cprofitt> do you have an SVG source for the logo?
[00:05] <cprofitt> http://imagebin.ca/view/WYzAgR.html
[00:06] <cprofitt> interesting diagram...
[00:06] <cprofitt> we need to publish some of this stuff from the mailing list...
[00:06] <cprofitt> http://imagebin.ca/view/SwoftK3.html
[00:06] <cprofitt> http://imagebin.ca/view/a2vo651b.html
[00:07] <cprofitt> I mean that was a bit of work doctormo and it is all hidden and obscured
[00:09] <cprofitt> doctormo, this is the proposal you liked from pleia2  - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-learning/2009-October/000070.html
[00:09] <cprofitt> correct?
[00:10] <doctormo> Yes
[00:10] <doctormo> I just commited those to the bzr today actually.
[00:11] <doctormo> Perhaps we need to ask about each of them at a meeting before they go to the wiki
[00:13] <cprofitt> yeah... that would be good.
[00:13] <cprofitt> I really want things like that up on our wiki... so potential contributors can see it
[00:14] <cprofitt> I am not finding an svg version of the logo.
[00:15] <cprofitt> ... how do you take an svg and add it to a GIMP file?
[00:17] <cprofitt> hmm... seem like just open it... and render...
[00:22] <doctormo> Aye
[00:22] <doctormo> You can also open it in inkscape
[00:22] <doctormo> sorry for not responding, I'm baby sitting / dog sitting and the dog was going all stressed
[00:23] <cprofitt> I have two kids that are bouncing off the walls right now... so I can understand
[00:24] <doctormo>  Do you still need an svg?
[00:24] <doctormo> Have you seen the svg I used for the command line basics presentation?
[00:25] <doctormo> cprofitt: Can we put on the agenda for the next meeting to elect a person responsbile for talking care of some administrative functions for the group?
[00:26] <cprofitt> doctormo, sounds good to me...
[00:26] <doctormo> This would include organising meetings, chairing meetings, adding a section to the wiki on agreed administrative functions, structures etc and basically writing this sort of thing up. including posting meeting notes to the mailing list for archival?
[00:40] <doctormo> paultag, pleia2, hal14450, Reepicheep, Saj0577, maxb, Extend: Any of you want to take care of some group administrative functions?
[00:40] <paultag> Yo, what's up
[00:41] <doctormo> there are some parts to our group function that may not be functioning as well as they need to be.
[00:42] <doctormo> So perhaps someone who's job, responsibility and final say on these matters is required.
[00:42] <doctormo> But I want to sound people out and see if anyone is even willing to do it, otherwise the meeting will be pretty dull.
[00:42] <paultag> I feel that I have been less then active in here, but I would not mind providing some help where it is needed
[00:43] <doctormo> paultag: Is it the kind of thing your good at/will enjoy doing/can be reasonable expected to attend to at a steady rate?
[00:44] <ZachK_> heya all
[00:46] <paultag> doctormo, yes, I am almost always online. I have no problem helping lead
[00:50] <doctormo> paultag: lead? no, the position would be leadership of administrative functions. The board would be used to decide things though. Or at least that's what I'm thinking.
[00:51] <paultag> doctormo, Sorry, that's what I meant. I am a bit out of it right now
[00:52] <doctormo> np, recover :-)
[00:52] <paultag> thanks :)
[01:02] <pleia2> yeah, I've sorta been doing some of that but not reliably lately
[01:04] <paultag> Is there a google cal for this team?
[01:05] <pleia2> no, when we plan meetings we put them on the fridge calendar
[01:05] <paultag> OK
[01:06] <pleia2> the doodle poll on our wiki shows best times for most of us (sunday and monday evening edt)
[01:07] <paultag> Cool
[01:08] <pleia2> but honestly when it comes to course development workflow I think we're at the point where we all just need to write some stuff and start getting a feel for it
[01:08] <pleia2> we can design structure all we want, but we won't really know what is perfect until we really get rolling with it
[01:14] <cprofitt> pleia2, doctormo and I were just discussing the difference between content generation and course design
[01:14] <pleia2> ah
[01:15] <cprofitt> Not sure if you saw my post on the idea of how to organize the status of a course
[01:15] <pleia2> yes, I did
[01:15] <doctormo> Aye, me and Bios have spent the day writing some of the courses up
[01:17] <cprofitt> doctormo, what did you put the courses in?
[01:17] <doctormo> So far trunk2, we're not finished yet
[01:17] <doctormo> It's just development step
[01:17] <cprofitt> I think I finally came up with a good analogy for some of this...
[01:17] <cprofitt> asciidoc = source
[01:18] <cprofitt> Moodle = compiled for 64bit
[01:18] <cprofitt> PDF = compiled fro 32bit
[01:18] <cprofitt> ... does that fit?
[01:18] <cprofitt> what is trunk2?
[01:22]  * cprofitt smiles
[01:22] <cprofitt> not good then?
[01:25] <cprofitt> doctormo,
[01:25] <doctormo> hello
[01:25] <doctormo> cprofitt: good analogy
[01:25] <cprofitt> Do you use 'classes' the same way I use 'topics'?
[01:25] <doctormo> possible
[01:26] <cprofitt> I looked at -- http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~doctormo/ubuntu-learning-materials/trunk2/annotate/head%3A/courses/sys-admin/introduction.txt
[01:26] <cprofitt> and it looks like you do...
[01:26] <doctormo> Sections > Topics == development, Courses > Classes == Publishing. But that's not fixed
[01:26] <cprofitt> the .List of classes -- looks like what I call topics
[01:29] <cprofitt> what is the > mean in that above?
[01:30] <cprofitt> I define course as - 10. 	a program of instruction, as in a college or university: a course in economics.
[01:30] <cprofitt> which we seem to share a definition on
[01:30] <doctormo> > means contains
[01:30] <cprofitt> but the sub-components of a course are topics to me
[01:31] <doctormo> only because in my teaching I split them out into teachable classes
[01:31] <cprofitt> classes =  	a group of students meeting regularly to study a subject under the guidance of a teacher: The class had arrived on time for the lecture.
[01:31] <cprofitt> right... so they are topics you are covering in 'classes'
[01:31] <cprofitt> but not classes...
[01:31] <ZachK_> yada
[01:31] <cprofitt> another reason I was getting confused...
[01:31] <paultag> cprofitt, it looks like classes are being taught in sessions
[01:32] <cprofitt> some topics might take more than one session...
[01:32] <cprofitt> but a topic is a single topic.
[01:32] <cprofitt> the amount of time a topic takes would be determined by the length of the session...
[01:32] <cprofitt> 1 hour, 2 hour, 1 week on-line...
[01:32] <cprofitt> so the sessions would be variable -- while topics would not; correct?
[01:33] <cprofitt> paultag, I agree...
[01:33] <paultag> cprofitt, Sorry, courses are taught in classes.
[01:34]  * paultag goes idle again
[01:34] <cprofitt> classes (or sessions) could have only one topic or more than one... depending on the 'length' of the session.
[01:35] <cprofitt> doctormo...
[01:36] <cprofitt> with asciidocs... if I am following the asciidoc component would be the topics -- in individual parts...
[01:36] <cprofitt> the asciidoc would also contain the 'outline' of topics
[01:36] <cprofitt> is that accurate?
[01:37] <paultag> why asciidoc cprofitt?
[01:37] <doctormo> I tend to afix a session size as two hours of teach/student intruction and time. Then other parts, it was worth defining a string of classes which progress as an entire course develops, instead of topics which are too ridgid to teach in my real world sessions.
[01:37] <paultag> cprofitt, that is almost as low as Text
[01:37] <paultag> +1 doctormo
[01:37] <cprofitt> not sure paultag doctormo and bioselement want to use them as 'source' documents
[01:37] <paultag> Ah, cotcha
[01:37] <cprofitt> for producing the PDF, HTML, etc.
[01:37] <paultag> gotcha.
[01:37] <paultag> Makes sense.
[01:38] <cprofitt> doctormo, so a person making a course made in one hour chunks would need to write a new course...
[01:38] <cprofitt> or if the course was to be put in to Moodle with a five week period it would have to have a different asciidoc  course?
[01:39] <doctormo> cprofitt: It should be possible to bring the component parts together into different lengths, as each asciidoc is not really one file.
[01:42] <cprofitt> right...
[01:42] <cprofitt> but the 'course outline' would need to be different... right?
[01:42] <cprofitt> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~doctormo/ubuntu-learning-materials/trunk2/annotate/head%3A/courses/sys-admin/introduction.txt
[01:43] <doctormo> Yep
[01:43] <cprofitt> one would change that...
[01:43] <cprofitt> k.
[01:43] <doctormo> If you needed the course to be longer, shorter etc
[01:43]  * cprofitt starting to understand more
[01:43] <cprofitt> not longer or shorter for the course...
[01:43] <cprofitt> but the 'sessions' would change
[01:43] <doctormo> ah yes, sorry
[01:44] <doctormo> The topics, classes would be longer or shorter. Some of that may be down to compression.
[01:44] <cprofitt> yea...
[01:45] <cprofitt> now... in an attempt to 'refine'
[01:45] <cprofitt> if you are willing to entertain my idea doctormo
[01:45] <cprofitt> would be to just list the topics in the main doc... with a time the topic takes...
[01:46] <cprofitt> and a total 'course' time
[01:46] <cprofitt> then it could be used in multiple versions of the course...
[01:46] <cprofitt> would that work doctormo ?
[01:47] <doctormo> cprofitt: I'd need to think about how to encode time information, perhaps in the teachers part of the section.
[01:48] <doctormo> Perhaps three times, a) Instructional time, b) classroom time, c) Student at home time (i.e. 1 week)
[01:48] <cprofitt> doctormo, I have not seen a course that tied itself to specific time amounts per session...
[01:48] <doctormo> cprofitt: I only do that because it made it easier to teach.
[01:48] <cprofitt> lesson plans are made to break that stuff up... but the course outline itself did not try to break it up to specific sessions.
[01:49] <cprofitt> doctormo, yes... from the perspective of making one course that fits your current style that works...
[01:49] <cprofitt> but for an overall course design that accommodates multiple 'styles' it might not be the best fit
[01:50] <cprofitt> K-12 Courses do not even 'control' the specific pattern all the topics are covered in...
[01:51] <doctormo> Sure, and in the case of the format of how things are going to be written, it's just a matter of uncompressing certain parts (which I compressed) and splitting them up as required.
[01:51] <doctormo> We can document things in a way that allows us to control the output, but we can't really develop things so that they can model every teaching style. That may just be a matter of crossing that birdge when we come to it
[01:52] <doctormo> Otherwise, we'd not be able to do anything.
[01:52] <cprofitt> doctormo, that is my point
[01:52] <cprofitt> I do not see a need to divide the things up to the level you have
[01:53] <cprofitt> let the course instructor handle that...
[01:55] <doctormo> I haven't split things up, except in terms of subject matter.
[01:55] <doctormo> If they're not split up there, then we won't be able to develop effectivly.
[01:57] <cprofitt> no, no I agree... with how they are on your page...
[01:58] <cprofitt> just change the 'heading' to topics
[01:58] <cprofitt> and include the time period it takes to cover the topic
[01:58] <doctormo> what heading?
[01:59] <cprofitt> the heading of 'classes' change it to just 'topics'
[01:59] <cprofitt> http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-Science/6-006Spring-2008/LectureNotes/index.htm
[01:59] <cprofitt> that is an example of a course... that shows what I mean
[01:59] <cprofitt> he has course sessions... and the topics take several 'sessions'
[01:00] <cprofitt> some topics take more sessions that others...
[01:00] <cprofitt> I do not think we have to break our topics up -- let the instructors do that...
[01:00] <cprofitt> we just define a course and the topics contained with in...
[01:00]  * cprofitt smiles
[01:00] <cprofitt> does that make sense?
[01:03] <cprofitt> doctormo, ?
[01:44] <cprofitt> hey doctormo -- what was the last part you had of my discussion with you?
[01:44] <doctormo> My computer crashed, sorry about that.
[01:44] <cprofitt> np
[01:44]  * doctormo will never buy from system76 again
[01:44] <cprofitt> http://pastebin.com/d623b24f9
[01:44] <cprofitt> there is a pastebin
[01:45] <doctormo> [Sat Oct 24 2009] [20:59:57] <cprofitt> he has course sessions... and the topics take several 'sessions'
[01:45] <cprofitt> really... had issues with them?
[01:46] <doctormo> this machine isn't up to snuff, there is some kind of power fault or some weird faltingness to it.
[01:47] <cprofitt> I bought Lenovo... because they are very good laptops
[01:47] <cprofitt> I build my own desktops
[01:47] <doctormo> The problem is that the computer works most of the time, so when I sent it back to them, they couldn't find a problem and thus didn't want to fix it (it needed replacing)
[01:47] <doctormo> It's hard to find intermitant failures and the problem is that I couldn't keep on sending it back to them, I need it, it's my only computer.
[01:48] <cprofitt> true...
[01:49] <cprofitt> so... back on to our previous topic...
[01:49] <cprofitt> do you understand what I was saying about how to just list topics w/ time to cover the topic
[01:49] <doctormo> so, from what you were saying about topics, the way we're doing it is correct and your happy with topics in devel.
[01:49] <cprofitt> instead of breaking it up in to a chunk size you like?
[01:49] <cprofitt> yeah... just do not call them classes... or restrict them to being 1 hour or 1 hours... etc..
[01:50] <cprofitt> makes the documents we are using much more versatile IMHO
[01:51] <doctormo> I agree, of course I will backport to asciidoc what we have and work from there
[01:52] <cprofitt> cool...
[01:52] <cprofitt> I think I see how asciidoc fits now...
[01:52] <cprofitt> at least from my vantage point it now has a place I can understand
[01:53] <cprofitt> ... another organizations thing...
[01:53] <cprofitt> with LP -- how will that be organized... by the 'areas'?
[01:55] <doctormo> In LP, so far only a single project exists and a single trunk branch, but it's possible to split out if it becomes a problem.
[01:56] <cprofitt> ... so all topics will be in the same branch under the same LP page?
[01:57] <doctormo> yes, ubuntu-learning-materials
[01:57] <doctormo> the trunk development should be lp:ubuntu-learning-materials
[01:57] <doctormo> But branches will be expected as people edit and create various modifications.
[02:23] <cprofitt> k
[02:23] <cprofitt> I will try to get more familiar with that.
[02:24] <cprofitt> doctormo, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning-materials ?
[02:25] <doctormo> yes
[02:26] <cprofitt> it comes up empty
[02:27] <cprofitt> ah... w/o the ~
[02:32] <doctormo> Aye, so cprofitt, now that we've gone over some of the structures and symantics, are you more confident and trusting of my decisions so far?
[02:34] <cprofitt> that is a loaded question.
[02:34] <cprofitt> it implies that there was a lack of trust before... which there was not.
[02:34] <cprofitt> it was a lack of understanding and a desire to understand it
[02:35] <cprofitt> I never questioned the groups decisions... in fact I was unaware that they were your decisions.
[02:36] <cprofitt> I knew you supported them... and worked on them...
[02:37] <doctormo> Well so far I've been the person writing stuff, so it came to pass that descisions were made so things could get written.
[02:38] <cprofitt> true...
[02:38] <doctormo> The problem today has been that I've felt like I've been defending all my work to your scrutiny. It didn't feel like you were just asking questions, but that may just be the language employed.
[02:39] <doctormo> Either way, I want you to know that I've been uncorfortable
[02:39] <cprofitt> I guess it is tough at times to tell the difference; why would you have felt that I was questioning the validity of your work?
[02:39] <paultag> Sorry to jump in here
[02:40] <paultag> cprofitt, I've been tracking this, you did come off a bit aggressive
[02:40] <cprofitt> please enlighten me to what you viewed as aggressive
[02:40] <paultag> cprofitt, Loaded questions like that :X
[02:40] <cprofitt> I know I was having a hard time following some of the items and asked several times for clarification
[02:41] <cprofitt> paultag, I am honestly asking for you to tell me where...
[02:41] <paultag> cprofitt, YOU tell me why I was being aggressive. It's hard to read nuance over text.
[02:41] <cprofitt> that is true...
[02:41] <paultag> cprofitt, so try to work conservatively and read liberally
[02:41] <paultag> cprofitt, as a good rule of thumb :)
[02:41] <paultag> I'm sorry, write *
[02:42] <paultag> Long nite :)
[02:42] <cprofitt> paultag, seriously... how can one ask questions and get information if they do not understand...
[02:42] <cprofitt> if there was something you can point to that would be great... it would give me an example.
[02:42] <paultag> cprofitt, Worded with tact, and acknowledging that one might not understand something
[02:42] <paultag> cprofitt, Sentiences like that can be construed as aggressive
[02:43] <paultag> cprofitt, I'm not passing judgment here, I'm just posting my commentary. I have been just watching
[02:43] <cprofitt> I am not following paultag
[02:43] <paultag> cprofitt, I am totally removed from this issue.
[02:43] <cprofitt> paultag, not challenging that impartiality... just really trying to see what you are saying...
[02:43] <paultag> cprofitt, Meditate on it, perhaps thinking about how you read text would help. I don't think I can state it too much clearly :/
[02:44] <cprofitt> I am sorry paultag I really could use a more clear example from you...
[02:44] <cprofitt> was this the sentence you are referring too -- if there was something you can point to that would be great... it would give me an example.
[02:44] <paultag> cprofitt, I won't. Showing you instances won't help the big picture
[02:45] <cprofitt> w/o examples I am not sure how to proceed.
[02:45] <paultag> cprofitt, Think about it. And how you read other's IRC messages.
[02:45] <paultag> cprofitt, It will come to you. Of that I am sure.
[02:46] <paultag> I'm not being argumentative or attacking how you conduct yourself, just figured I would add another ( impartial ) viewpoint :)
[02:47] <cprofitt> paultag, I can appreciate that. I work better with examples - fresh in my mind.
[02:47] <paultag> cprofitt, Understood. Perhaps review your logs.
[02:48] <cprofitt> I have been...
[02:48] <cprofitt> http://pastebin.com/d3ebdb257
[02:49] <doctormo> cprofitt: since this is my thing, I'll find one
[02:49] <paultag> cprofitt, Just read through a few times. At least until you figure out "* cprofitt smiles" can be considered condescending
[02:49]  * cprofitt smiles
[02:49] <cprofitt> thanks.
[02:49] <cprofitt> omg
[02:49] <paultag> Ouch
[02:49] <paultag> Good timing
[02:49] <cprofitt> paultag, that was advice that someone else suggested I do to lighten things up
[02:50] <paultag> cprofitt, perhaps consider using emotocons
[02:50] <cprofitt> I am a rather straight forward person..
[02:50] <cprofitt> sorry... sarcasm coming now...
[02:50] <paultag> Clearly :)
[02:50] <cprofitt> what is different from :)
[02:50] <cprofitt> and /me smiles
[02:51] <doctormo> [Sat Oct 24 2009] [18:36:34] <cprofitt> but can you point me to the log from the meeting in which the group adopted asciidoc officially
[02:51]  * cprofitt nods to doctormo 
[02:51] <paultag> cprofitt, the difference between a patronizing smile, and a genuine one, over text, I'm afraid
[02:52] <cprofitt> paultag, so you are saying that : ) is genuine and /me smiles is not?
[02:52] <paultag> cprofitt, over text, yes. That's how it's taken
[02:52]  * doctormo grins like the cheshire cat
[02:52] <paultag> cprofitt, /me smiles is taken as "I'm right, and you should know that"
[02:52] <cprofitt> That is stupid
[02:52] <paultag> Noted duly
[02:52] <cprofitt> I had no idea that was a convetion....
[02:52] <cprofitt> my god that is stupid
[02:53] <paultag> Noted dully :P
[02:53] <paultag> Erm, dually
[02:53] <paultag> Word puns \o/
[02:53] <cprofitt> I knew about SCREAMING
[02:53] <doctormo> Actually I took /me smilies to mean, he smilies. I see no alternate motive or meaning.
[02:54] <paultag> Ah, I read those differently :)
[02:54] <cprofitt> but never thought /me 'action' was inferred as something other that what was said
[02:54] <paultag> cprofitt, Indeed it can be
[02:54] <paultag> cprofitt, Such as this case here.
[02:54] <paultag> ( imho )
[02:54]  * doctormo does a little dance
[02:54] <cprofitt> so my whole attempt to lighten things up  with /me smiles caused issues...
[02:54] <cprofitt> my lord
[02:55] <cprofitt> anyway...
[02:55] <cprofitt> with they quoted text doctormo how did that bother you?
[02:55] <cprofitt> I have been trying to pick things out of logs and mail list content to see things we need to add to our wiki...
[02:55] <doctormo> Actually it might just be with the directness of the language. if you say "/me smiles a jasmine smile of perfumed arabia" it's not really serious.
[02:56] <cprofitt> so that people coming in 'late' can be up-to-date with where we are
[02:56] <cprofitt> I missed a great deal with the mail list issues and missed meetings...
[02:56] <doctormo> Aye, I can see a need for that.
[02:56] <doctormo> We've certainly had to go over a lot today to cover up for that mistake.
[02:56] <cprofitt> and can empathize with decisions and directions not being in the wiki... but 'hidden' in the logs and archives
[02:57] <cprofitt> I really do not want to cause ripples, but want to smooth things out for the future...
[02:57] <doctormo> Ok so, using "but" to start a sentance preseeds to emotive as negative, then we move on to "point out"
[02:57] <doctormo> which means "something I can't see" or "something that I don't think exists"
[02:58] <cprofitt> It was 'something I did not see'
[02:58] <cprofitt> I still have not found it...
[02:58] <doctormo> I'm sure it doesn't exist
[02:58] <cprofitt> if it does not exist... I want us to vote on it and make sure it does exist.
[02:58] <cprofitt> ... if that is necessary...
[02:58] <cprofitt> I am not sure how formal we need to make this stuff to be honest
[02:59] <doctormo> Well, your going through each of the meetings to make this list right? then if it was voted on, it'll be there.
[02:59] <doctormo> But TBH, I'm not concerned with things being voted on if we know there is general concensus already. That's what makes the tone acusitory.
[03:00] <doctormo> because I shouldn't have to point it out, or even find it in the logs, it just shouldn't be that important.
[03:00] <cprofitt> doctormo, assuming all the meetings were on the page - yes
[03:00] <cprofitt> I did not want to assume there were.
[03:01] <cprofitt> in the last meeting someone, I do not recall nor is it important, said we had made it official in a meeting
[03:01] <cprofitt> so I was looking for it
[03:01] <doctormo> I think we have, or at least I have a vague memory of it.
[03:01] <doctormo> But if it's important to vote on it, we'll vote on it next meeting.
[03:02] <doctormo> Andif we need a list of agreements (which considering today I think we do) then we'll dot hat.
[03:02] <cprofitt> I do not know if it is important to vote on... but it is important to document...
[03:02] <cprofitt> document the process so people know what that process is.
[03:02] <paultag> doctormo, is there a wiki?
[03:02] <cprofitt> paultag, there is.
[03:02] <paultag> cprofitt, perhaps look to that?
[03:02] <doctormo> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
[03:03] <cprofitt> it is not there currently...
[03:03] <paultag> cprofitt, sounds like a great thing to add
[03:03] <paultag> :)
[03:03] <cprofitt> that is one of the things we need to work on... and I was trying to get a fix on.
[03:03] <doctormo> Aye, it's the first job of the new admin'er
[03:03] <cprofitt> I agree paultag
[03:03] <paultag> Righto
[03:04] <cprofitt> but we need to find all the pieces...
[03:04] <cprofitt> I think at times people have felt 'blind sided' by things... due to not knowing that a decision was made...
[03:05] <cprofitt> that has led to some 'bent' feelings and frustrations and I think documenting things -- at least the process decisions would help avoid those things
[03:05] <paultag> That's on me now cprofitt.
[03:06] <doctormo> paultag: You can get the data together, but we'll have a propper vote on it next meeting (monday?) just to make sure there are no objections.
[03:06] <cprofitt> what is on you paultag ?
[03:06] <paultag> RIghto doctormo. I'll need to pick apart logs from TN, as well as review some old documents
[03:06] <paultag> cprofitt, the lack of public documentation of internal practices
[03:07] <doctormo> So all it is is probably a page such as http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Team would be filled with a list of board members, dates for re-election, next meeting time and then previous desisions with voting table and link to irc log?
[03:07] <cprofitt> I must have missed that... sorry paultag
[03:07] <cprofitt> kids were monsters today...
[03:07] <paultag> cprofitt, as of about 4:00 PM :P
[03:07] <cprofitt> I saw doctormo discussing the need for that...
[03:07] <cprofitt> but not that you had taken it on
[03:08] <paultag> doctormo, I was thinking a page "development" for the team best practices
[03:08] <paultag> doctormo, What to use etc
[03:09] <paultag> doctormo, objections, concerns or questions on that?
[03:09] <paultag> you too cprofitt
[03:09] <cprofitt> paultag, I have no objections to that...
[03:09] <paultag> questions or concerns then ?
[03:09] <doctormo> So http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Team/Development ?
[03:09] <cprofitt> we need to get the process documented so contributors know how to proceed
[03:10] <paultag> doctormo, yeah, I have it open now, but have not saved it with a basic layout yet
[03:10] <doctormo> cprofitt: There are a couple of processes, organisation, development and publishing.
[03:10] <doctormo> Each one needs describing.
[03:10] <doctormo> But the orgnisation is fairly easy, go onto the Topics page for that section, and add and remove topics as required.
[03:12] <paultag> doctormo, is it OK to split it up to those four then?
[03:13] <doctormo> Split what up into what four?
[03:13] <paultag> doctormo, the documentation into processes, organization, development and publishing
[03:14] <doctormo> OK, but it's three. unless by processes you mean internal organisation?
[03:14] <doctormo> my fault for stray comma.
[03:15] <paultag> doctormo, that, or how we accept non-member contributions etc
[03:15] <doctormo> there is no such thing as member-contributions.
[03:15] <doctormo> members are only priviliaged by what they are organising, everythign else is open season.
[03:16] <paultag> doctormo, i.e. a document you write would be approved by default, whereas something emailed to you might undergo a review. That kinda thing
[03:16] <paultag> doctormo, or the actual process of review
[03:16] <doctormo> Oh everything gets peer review, i don't care if your king, or even bodi, stuff gets reviewed. It's all about eyes.
[03:17]  * doctormo hopes people get that I was joking about bodi :-P
[03:17] <paultag> doctormo, perhaps document that process then?
[03:18] <doctormo> paultag: I don't understand.
[03:19] <paultag> doctormo, the process of peer-review. Just so that if we have a sub-par document, we can point to how we have a process for accepting new material instead of arbitrarily denying contributions
[03:19] <doctormo> OK
[03:19] <doctormo> That may want to go into the development -> publishing documentation.
[03:20] <doctormo> i.e. at the start of publishing is says "After peer review [see development page], you publish yadda yadaa"
[03:20] <doctormo> And in development at the bottom, it explains how merge requests work in launchpad.
[03:21] <paultag> OK
[03:23] <doctormo> thanks paultag, your a star
[03:24] <paultag> np doctormo
[03:24] <paultag> I'll BRB
[03:28] <cprofitt> doctormo, just trying to be clear for me, we would peer review the 'source' or asciidoc part; right?
[03:30] <doctormo> cprofitt: Yes, or at least that's the best idea if we want to merge it using bzr/lp
[03:33] <cprofitt> ok...
[03:33] <cprofitt> now I am scared to type /me nods
[03:33] <cprofitt> for fear that has a meaning I am not aware of
[03:33] <doctormo> It might mean tht your going to sleep! (it doesn't)
[03:34] <cprofitt> true...
[05:02] <cprofitt> night all
[13:47] <pleia2> hm, Org seems to be a bit of a duplicate of Structure
[18:48] <Saj0577__> hey did someone ping me?
[21:53] <doctormo_> Hey BiosElement
[22:23] <BiosElement> Ahh, hey doctormo