sbalneavEvening all02:55
=== highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage
sbalneavMorning all!13:52
scottmaccalgood morning.13:52
sbalneavscottmaccal: Back at work?14:00
LaserJockstgraber, highvoltage: ping15:24
LaserJockanybody around in here?15:45
sbalneavjust us chickens15:47
sbalneavWhen I get back home tonight, I'll test the dvd15:48
LaserJockalkisg: ping15:48
alkisgHi all15:48
LaserJockso we need a release announcement and release notes15:48
LaserJockwhat do you all want mentioned in either/both?15:48
alkisgThat we need people to get involved with edubuntu less it dies? :D15:50
LaserJockalkisg: anything else? :-)15:51
alkisgThere are many things I'd like to say, but I lack the words to express them...15:53
alkisgNow that edubuntu is on a dvd instead of a cd, thanks to you, it can become something better but it needs a lot of work too15:54
alkisgBut I can't express myself about what needs to be done...15:56
sbalneav"Edubuntu has made major improvements in usability.  It has gone back to being a full distro with a DVD installer"15:57
sbalneavImprovements to LTSP, and management tools also enhance the experience.15:57
alkisgI think we should also put a big thank you there for LaserJock which will be "retiring"15:59
LaserJockok, but what has changed from Jaunty15:59
LaserJockwhat potential pitfalls are there?15:59
alkisgWe should also specifically mention that sabayon is now again in a working state16:02
LaserJockok, good one16:02
LaserJockedubuntu-server should be working due to jbicha's moodle fixes16:03
LaserJockgcompris had a pretty big version jump that includes several fixes16:03
alkisgitalc has had some improvements in autodetecting the clients and avoiding ports in use...16:03
alkisg...language support was added on the edubuntu dvd for many languages...16:06
jbichaMarble has a visual changelog at http://edu.kde.org/marble/current_0.8.php16:07
sbalneavalkisg: we closed a lot of LTSP bugs, and I'd like to plow through, for next release, a lot of the bugs on some of the other packages.16:21
sbalneavscreem looks like it needs some love :(16:21
alkisgI'm trying to organize things for all greek schools that want to use standalone ubuntu installations (non-ltsp). So to be honest, I don't expect to have much time this year for bug squashing.16:23
alkisgI'll be creating 2-3 packages and trying to push them upstream in universe, and I'll be writing wiki pages, though16:24
alkisgFor bugs, I'll try to help as much as I can with ltsp and italc...16:27
LaserJockalkisg: that that we ask is that you do what you can, when you can, everything helps!16:29
* alkisg gives many, many hours per day to get Ubuntu to fit in Greek schools... :)16:30
LaserJockyeah, that's awesome stuff16:31
LaserJockyou need to do a brain dump sometime16:31
LaserJockon what kinds of things you do16:31
alkisgMy "plan" is like this: (1) find what needs to be done for greek schools (sbalneav will hate me for abusing the unix users system)16:34
alkisg(2) document it (3) script it (4) make a remix out of it (5) when I see that it is out there and working for greece, I'll try to "publish" as much as people want upstream16:34
alkisgThat last part has the most "beurocracy", which I hate... :)16:35
ograsbalneav, dont forget ltsp-cluster support16:35
ogra(should surely be in the release notes)16:36
ograLaserJock, all your new splits in the age dependant metapackages should be mentioned16:36
jbichafor next release, I'd like us to get subject/topic metapackages like debian-edu uses, ubuntu-edu-geography ubuntu-edu-music , etc.16:42
ograthat might end in endless fragmentation though16:42
LaserJockyeah, I'm not convinced that we need a lot more meta-packages16:43
stgraberLaserJock: pong16:43
ograubuntu-edu-geography-preschool, ubuntu-edu-geography-unioversity ...16:43
LaserJockstgraber: we need release notes and release announcement16:43
jbichapossibly instead of ubuntu-edu-primary16:43
* alkisg would like for edubuntu to provide an infrastructure for *other* people to do that (=make package collections)16:43
stgraberhighvoltage: highvoltage started to work on something on his gobby server16:43
stgraberhighvoltage: did you have a look ?16:43
stgraberLaserJock: ^16:43
LaserJockstgraber: I don't know where it is16:43
stgraberhang on a sec, looking at my jabber log16:44
jbichathere's not a lot of difference between primary & preschool or between secondary & tertiary, stuff overlaps16:44
LaserJockcurrently no16:44
jbichait works for debian16:44
ograso you would think gcompris is a good tool for universities ?16:44
LaserJockDebian is quite different from Ubuntu though16:44
stgraberLaserJock: jono.co.za16:44
ograor tuxtype16:45
stgraberthe release notes schema is there, just need to fill it16:45
LaserJockk, good16:46
jbichaogra: we could keep a category for young children, but "ubuntu-edu-tertiary" is too broad and not well-defined16:47
LaserJockthat I can generally agree on16:48
ogramight be16:48
LaserJockwhat I think might be a better option16:48
ograbut turning it into task driven generates a big amount of maintenance overhead16:48
ograand also puts up the question where you stop splitting16:49
LaserJockis to turn -tertiary or something similar into a "basic educational/research workstation" type install16:49
LaserJockso rather than doing specific topic-area apps16:49
LaserJockwe do things like bibliography tools16:49
LaserJockwriting and productivity tools16:49
LaserJockand some good theming16:50
stgraberwhat I discussed a few times, is to have the ability to install everything, then have filtering using xdg to only show a few entries with the list of entries to be configurable (as it depends on the grade, the country and in some cases, the region)16:50
ogra(not that i would have to decide anything) :)16:50
* ogra points to edubuntu-menus16:50
jbichasome categorization is useful for findability, if I wanted to find recommended music software for education in Ubuntu, where would I go?16:50
ograit has so much potential16:50
LaserJockI think there's sort of two area16:50
ograand stioll nobody finished it16:50
LaserJockogra: now that I'm retired you never know ;-)16:51
ograjbicha, software-center16:51
ograLaserJock, hah16:51
ograLaserJock, you mean like edubuntu grew a community after is stepped back ?16:51
LaserJockI think we can categorize without metapackages16:51
ograjust add the right patches to software-center16:52
LaserJockI think it should be considered that we have a custom software-center view16:52
jbichaogra: there's 104 choices for music, I don't know if any of them are useful16:52
jbichaLaserJock: ooh, we can do that?16:52
ograsoftware-center is at some point supposed to replace all GUI package management tools16:52
LaserJockjbicha: sure, why not?16:52
LaserJockI was thinking this weekend16:52
ograjbicha, software-.center only had its first release, its still open to improvements16:52
ogralucid is the perfect time to spec such additions16:53
LaserJockthat we need a core Edubuntu16:53
jbichayeah, I just wasn't creative enough to think of that16:53
LaserJockthat's about theming, productivity, and a general educational feel16:53
LaserJock*without* specific educational content areas16:53
LaserJockand without much age specificity16:53
LaserJockand then add on those layers16:54
LaserJockwhat we're doing now is the opposite16:54
LaserJockmaking the general (edubuntu-desktop) depend on the specific16:54
LaserJockI think we should reverse that and make the specific depend on the general16:54
LaserJockand make the specific more accessible to the end user16:54
LaserJockI think that could be done via Ubiquity and Software Center16:55
LaserJockI'm thinking Edubuntu should be "plugin" based16:57
LaserJockwe provide a core and the means to plug in extras edu goodness16:57
ograLaserJock, and you dare to resign with such an idea in mind ? tsk16:59
LaserJockI got the ideas16:59
LaserJockjust not the time :(16:59
jbichahave we considered the KDE desktop for Edubuntu? I mean there's kde-edu but not a similar project for GNOME17:00
LaserJockjbicha: edubuntu-desktop-kde17:01
LaserJockif we consider this plugin-based design I think it would be entirely conceivable to make it work very well on Kubuntu17:02
LaserJockI think you still need to pick one in terms of the DVD17:02
jbichabut GNOME's the default, is GNOME more usable (or better supported by Ubuntu) in schools?17:02
alkisgHow hard is it for an admin to provide a list of packages? Do we really have to give such a big focus to package selection? Wouldn't it be better if we focused in some "out of the box" solutions? (like e.g. prepared ldap/nfs configurations...)17:02
LaserJockalkisg: I agree17:02
* alkisg is right onto that this year... :)17:03
LaserJockbut some "out of the box" solutions will be app-dependent17:04
LaserJockconsider the "parent with small kids" solution17:05
alkisgWell, we could provide him a dansguardian-based solution or something...17:06
LaserJockI think looking at out of the box "solutions" as plugins to a core Edubuntu sounds interesting17:06
LaserJockso what's needed are:17:07
LaserJock1) the core17:07
* alkisg thinks more people will be interested in this than in meta-packages17:07
LaserJock2) a few "solutions" that Edubuntu does *very* well17:07
LaserJock3) putting it all on an installation media17:07
LaserJockit would be good *hint* to spec this out and see if it could work for Lucid17:09
jbichaso these "solutions" would be separate from the normal deb dependency system....because otherwise it's just metapackages with a different name (& possibly philosophy)17:12
LaserJockthey might be implemented via metapackages17:15
LaserJockit doesn't matter a whole lot17:15
LaserJockit's more the design of it than the actual implementation method17:16
jbichaby the way, does anyone have a list of stuff that needs to be packaged, the software I could find (like BlueJ) has been too complicated17:18
LaserJockunless something is brand new, if we dont' have a package yet in Debian/Ubuntu it's probably for a reason :-017:19
LaserJock:-) rather17:19
alkisgLaserJock (since I think is in your field) have you looked at http://phet.colorado.edu/index.php for packaging?17:20
jbichayeah, but...you say you need help with packaging17:21
LaserJockjbicha: ah, well by packaging I usually mean package maintenance17:22
LaserJockjbicha: things like that moodle fixing you did17:22
LaserJockalkisg: I don't think those are open source17:22
jbichaLaserJock: oh ok, that's probably better than starting from scratch anyway17:23
LaserJockok, yeah, great17:23
LaserJockso yeah, I guess they'd be a candidate17:24
alkisgscratch could also be a candidate...17:24
LaserJockit used to be we didn't have a Free java VM, which ruled out us shipping and java apps17:24
* LaserJock runs17:24
alkisgHeh :)17:24
LaserJockI don't want to touch anything related to Squeak :-)17:24
LaserJockbut yeah, somebody should look at scratch17:25
alkisgAlso I've heard many teachers here using http://belvedere.sourceforge.net/ ...17:27
alkisgFinally, klatin was used but is no longer maintained upstream :(17:29
LaserJockyeah, that died during KDE3 -> KDE417:30
jbichaoh, neat, there's already a PPA for scratch https://launchpad.net/~scratch/+archive/ppa17:37
mhall119|workwhat about squeak?18:00
mhall119|workscratch is a cool game18:01
mhall119|workkind of like etoys, only with pre-made art and nicer puzzle-shaped blocks18:01
LaserJockmhall119|work: squeak and I have a long and not-very-pleasant past :-)18:05
mhall119|workheh, I can understand18:07
sbalneavok, time for me and jammcq to head to the airport18:10
sbalneavbe on tonight18:11
LaserJocksbalneav: k18:13
LaserJockI wonder if we should combine the release notes and release announcement18:41
highvoltageLaserJock: pong18:42
highvoltagehi LaserJock18:42
highvoltageLaserJock: my initial understanding was that it would be pretty much the same18:43
highvoltageLaserJock: sorry that I didn't finish it (or even start it properly), I just haven't been able to concentrate enough to just get it done18:43
LaserJockhighvoltage: well, the Ubuntu release notes are mostly (here are known problems)18:44
LaserJockhighvoltage: whereas the release announcement is all the "this is who we are and how you get it"18:45
LaserJockI don't know how many "known problems" we're going to have that aren't already covered in Ubuntu's notes18:45
LaserJockperhaps we should have Release Notes be the full version with all the info18:46
LaserJockand the announcement just be a brief couple paragraphs18:46
highvoltageLaserJock: that sounds like a very good18:48
highvoltageLaserJock: awesome opening paragraph you put there18:48
LaserJockhighvoltage: thanks18:49
LaserJockhighvoltage: do you have a little time now?18:49
highvoltageLaserJock: yep18:50
LaserJockstgraber: available'ish?18:50
LaserJockhighvoltage: it looks like what Ubuntu does is write the release notes on the wiki and keep a copy there, but the official location (where user and links go to) is on the website18:51
stgraberLaserJock: doing some iso testing, so yeah18:51
LaserJockhighvoltage: I think it would make sense to do similar so we can update the release notes (I'm guessing there'll have more "known issues" after release)18:51
LaserJockmy general thought is that the Release Notes should be a bit more prominent18:51
highvoltageLaserJock: ok18:52
LaserJockin the sense that as time goes by after release and big issues come up18:52
LaserJockwe should document them in the Known Issues18:52
LaserJockand *then* point people their18:52
LaserJockso like last release we had this stupid bug in Gcompris that I couldn't fix via an SRU18:52
LaserJockthat should have gone into the release notes, even though I found out about it post-release18:53
LaserJockand when people had problems I could at least point to the release notes18:53
LaserJockit could be sort of a "go there first, then ask questions" type thing18:53
highvoltageLaserJock: I have to leave for a few mintes, I'll be back in about 10 minutes (sorry just have to help someone quickly)18:54
stgraberLaserJock: sounds good18:55
stgrabernot sure we have anything broken at the moment (other than what's common with Ubuntu)18:56
stgraberso we should redirect readers to Ubuntu's as well18:56
stgraberwhat's the state of Moodle ? I remember reading about some issues there, has that been fixed ?18:56
LaserJockwe are18:56
LaserJockI *think* it's fixed :-)18:56
LaserJockthat was going to be something that was going in Known Issues, but I think jbica has fixed that18:57
LaserJockfor know we can basically leave an empty section with "Important issues and workarounds will be noted here"18:57
stgraber"At the time of the release, we haven't been made aware of any issues outside of these listed in the Ubuntu release notes. Additional information may be added here at a later time" ?18:58
LaserJockyeah, perfect18:59
LaserJockuh oh19:31
LaserJockwhat'd I do now19:31
highvoltagenot you, LP :)19:31
LaserJockhighvoltage, stgraber: can you guys read over what I have so far?19:32
highvoltageLP's UI and I have never gotten along quite well19:32
highvoltageLaserJock: I went through it and I think it's good19:32
LaserJockhmm, there was something I was remembering that should go into known issues but I've forgotten19:33
highvoltageLaserJock: what's the URL for the edubuntu bugs again? I'm failing to find it atm19:33
LaserJockhighvoltage: I just added some to What's New19:33
LaserJockhighvoltage: bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugsquad/+packagereport ?19:33
LaserJockthat's from memory so YMMV19:33
highvoltageLaserJock: on the ltsp-cluster line, it has been available before, but what's new this time is that it's now available in the ubuntu archives19:35
highvoltageLaserJock: I've modified the description but I'm not sure whether it's nice.19:35
LaserJockit doesn't exist until it's in the archives :-)19:36
highvoltageLaserJock: our previous release notes disagrees!19:36
LaserJockfine, be that way ;-p19:36
LaserJockhighvoltage: how's that?19:37
highvoltageLaserJock: good, although reading the 9.04 announcements again I think it's fine like it was19:37
highvoltageLaserJock: it (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Release/9.04/ReleaseNotes) just mentioned that the thin client supported ltsp-cluster, not that it was available for installation19:37
highvoltageLaserJock: so your original point there was probably fine19:37
LaserJocktbh I'm kinda of not considering the 9.04 release notes much19:38
LaserJockthat was the old Edubuntu!19:38
highvoltageLaserJock: *hug*19:38
LaserJockhighvoltage, stgraber: time to put this on the wiki?19:54
highvoltageLaserJock: +119:55
highvoltageLaserJock: I can't think of anything important that isn't covered yet19:55
LaserJockwhat URL do we want?19:55
LaserJock /Edubuntu/Release/9.10/ReleaseNotes?19:55
highvoltageLaserJock: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/edubuntu/edubuntuwikisite/wikisite/officialnotes/releasenotes/karmic/9.04/KarmicReleaseNotes19:56
* highvoltage ducks19:56
LaserJockor should it be /Releases/ (i kind of have a problem with putting multple things into a singular category but maybe that's just me)19:56
highvoltageLaserJock: as in /Edubuntu/Releases/9.10 ?19:57
highvoltageI think that's good19:57
LaserJockjust because we're putting multiple releases in there19:57
stgraberLaserJock: +120:03
LaserJockstgraber, highvoltage (and anybody else): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Releases/9.10/ReleaseNotes20:10
LaserJockI tweaked the known issues section20:10
highvoltageLaserJock: thanks, that's a relief20:12
LaserJockhighvoltage, stgraber: now working on announcement20:14
LaserJockI've copied over the top bits from the release notes20:14
LaserJockI think if we condense that a bit and add in a "Where to get it" I think it should be good20:15
highvoltageLaserJock: so the Release Announcements will be a few paragraphs?20:15
LaserJockyeah, I think it should be pretty brief20:15
LaserJockI guess the most important things are "hey, we're new!" and "here's how you get it"20:16
highvoltageLaserJock: yeah20:16
highvoltageand a live gah?20:21
LaserJockwhat the heck do you call a LiveCD session?20:21
LaserJockI want words normal people can understand20:22
highvoltageI've never known it by any other name than a "Live CD session"20:22
highvoltageI guess you could spell it out like "try it out by running it directly from the DVD without installing" or something similar20:23
LaserJockhow does that sound?20:24
highvoltagefeels like it's missing something20:25
highvoltageI'm in a weird perfectionistic mode where nothing just feels right. sorry :/20:25
highvoltageI've made a slight change but if it doesn't sound right feel free to remove20:26
LaserJockwell it's only a problem if you dont' fix it ;-)20:26
LaserJockah, much better, IMO20:26
LaserJockhighvoltage: how about just plain "modifying your computer"?20:27
highvoltage(I was thinking of that too)20:28
LaserJockhighvoltage: s/try/run/ ?20:28
LaserJocklet's move on to installation before we pick it to death :-)20:29
highvoltageheh, indeed20:29
highvoltageI'm bummed that I don't have an edubuntu iso and not enough bandwidth do sync up :/20:29
highvoltageit would be nice to have an installation guide with screenshots again20:30
LaserJockhighvoltage: since we already described what you can do with the DVD above I suggest we maybe just tell how to get the .iso and link to how to burn it20:30
highvoltageI guess I could still do that after the 1st20:30
vmlintuHi! Anyone else getting nbd+squashfs errors when rebooting ltsp thin clients on karmic? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/45770220:42
ubottuLaunchpad bug 457702 in ubuntu "nbd+squashfs errors when rebooting ltsp thin clients" [Undecided,New]20:42
highvoltageLaserJock: I don't have isos but I have the karmic repositories at least20:44
highvoltageLaserJock: if you don't find a kde user I could install kde on my netbook if there's enough space20:44
LaserJockit's just a quick thing20:45
LaserJockhighvoltage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Releases/9.10/ReleaseAnnouncement20:47
LaserJockI want to add a thing on how to install the app bundles from Kubuntu20:48
highvoltageLaserJock: ok installing kpackagekit... I just confirmed with #kubuntu that that's what they actually use20:51
LaserJockgood grief21:03
LaserJocklike all the servers are crawling today21:03
highvoltageI guess everyone is keeping their debmirrors as up to date as possible in anticipation21:04
LaserJockI need to get how to get to kpackagekit :(21:05
LaserJockok, done21:11
LaserJockhighvoltage: can you do the wiki - > edubuntu.org on release day?21:12
LaserJockhighvoltage, stgraber: OK, I'm done.21:16
LaserJock^^ those need to be put on edubuntu.org for release day21:17
LaserJockmake sure to note that there are 2 FIXME markers in the announcement21:17
LaserJockI don't know what the exact URL for the .iso is going to be21:17
LaserJockThere is a hopefully final .iso up at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/20091027.1/21:18
LaserJockplease test those if you can21:18
LaserJockand with that I'm out21:19
LaserJocknot sure when I'll be on next21:19
LaserJockso have a great release everybody and thanks!21:19
=== Ahmuck is now known as Ahmuck-Sr
dtraskHey all....I need help....this is somewhat related to edubuntu as it is for Open1to1.org and the image that I create for school netbooks....22:57
dtraskI have had schools complaining that students are creating "ad hoc" networks via network-manager and thus wreaking havoc on the school wireless network22:57
dtraskdoes anyone know of a way (clean or hack...I'm desperate here) of disabling the ability to create...and/or connect to an ad-hoc wireless network?22:58

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