[02:55] <sbalneav> Evening all
[03:01] <HedgeMage> hi
[13:52] <sbalneav> Morning all!
[13:52] <scottmaccal> good morning.
[14:00] <sbalneav> scottmaccal: Back at work?
[15:24] <LaserJock> stgraber, highvoltage: ping
[15:45] <LaserJock> anybody around in here?
[15:47] <sbalneav> me
[15:47] <sbalneav> just us chickens
[15:48] <sbalneav> When I get back home tonight, I'll test the dvd
[15:48] <LaserJock> alkisg: ping
[15:48] <alkisg> Hi all
[15:48] <LaserJock> hey
[15:48] <LaserJock> so we need a release announcement and release notes
[15:48] <LaserJock> what do you all want mentioned in either/both?
[15:50] <alkisg> That we need people to get involved with edubuntu less it dies? :D
[15:51] <LaserJock> alkisg: anything else? :-)
[15:53] <alkisg> There are many things I'd like to say, but I lack the words to express them...
[15:54] <alkisg> Now that edubuntu is on a dvd instead of a cd, thanks to you, it can become something better but it needs a lot of work too
[15:56] <alkisg> But I can't express myself about what needs to be done...
[15:57] <sbalneav> "Edubuntu has made major improvements in usability.  It has gone back to being a full distro with a DVD installer"
[15:57] <sbalneav> Improvements to LTSP, and management tools also enhance the experience.
[15:59] <alkisg> I think we should also put a big thank you there for LaserJock which will be "retiring"
[15:59] <LaserJock> ok, but what has changed from Jaunty
[15:59] <LaserJock> what potential pitfalls are there?
[16:02] <alkisg> We should also specifically mention that sabayon is now again in a working state
[16:02] <LaserJock> ok, good one
[16:03] <LaserJock> edubuntu-server should be working due to jbicha's moodle fixes
[16:03] <LaserJock> gcompris had a pretty big version jump that includes several fixes
[16:03] <alkisg> italc has had some improvements in autodetecting the clients and avoiding ports in use...
[16:06] <alkisg> ...language support was added on the edubuntu dvd for many languages...
[16:07] <jbicha> Marble has a visual changelog at http://edu.kde.org/marble/current_0.8.php
[16:21] <sbalneav> alkisg: we closed a lot of LTSP bugs, and I'd like to plow through, for next release, a lot of the bugs on some of the other packages.
[16:21] <sbalneav> screem looks like it needs some love :(
[16:23] <alkisg> I'm trying to organize things for all greek schools that want to use standalone ubuntu installations (non-ltsp). So to be honest, I don't expect to have much time this year for bug squashing.
[16:24] <alkisg> I'll be creating 2-3 packages and trying to push them upstream in universe, and I'll be writing wiki pages, though
[16:27] <alkisg> For bugs, I'll try to help as much as I can with ltsp and italc...
[16:29] <LaserJock> alkisg: that that we ask is that you do what you can, when you can, everything helps!
[16:30]  * alkisg gives many, many hours per day to get Ubuntu to fit in Greek schools... :)
[16:31] <LaserJock> yeah, that's awesome stuff
[16:31] <LaserJock> you need to do a brain dump sometime
[16:31] <LaserJock> on what kinds of things you do
[16:34] <alkisg> My "plan" is like this: (1) find what needs to be done for greek schools (sbalneav will hate me for abusing the unix users system)
[16:34] <alkisg> (2) document it (3) script it (4) make a remix out of it (5) when I see that it is out there and working for greece, I'll try to "publish" as much as people want upstream
[16:35] <alkisg> That last part has the most "beurocracy", which I hate... :)
[16:35] <ogra> sbalneav, dont forget ltsp-cluster support
[16:36] <ogra> (should surely be in the release notes)
[16:36] <ogra> LaserJock, all your new splits in the age dependant metapackages should be mentioned
[16:42] <jbicha> for next release, I'd like us to get subject/topic metapackages like debian-edu uses, ubuntu-edu-geography ubuntu-edu-music , etc.
[16:42] <ogra> that might end in endless fragmentation though
[16:43] <LaserJock> yeah, I'm not convinced that we need a lot more meta-packages
[16:43] <stgraber> LaserJock: pong
[16:43] <ogra> ubuntu-edu-geography-preschool, ubuntu-edu-geography-unioversity ...
[16:43] <LaserJock> stgraber: we need release notes and release announcement
[16:43] <jbicha> possibly instead of ubuntu-edu-primary
[16:43]  * alkisg would like for edubuntu to provide an infrastructure for *other* people to do that (=make package collections)
[16:43] <stgraber> highvoltage: highvoltage started to work on something on his gobby server
[16:43] <stgraber> highvoltage: did you have a look ?
[16:43] <stgraber> doh
[16:43] <stgraber> LaserJock: ^
[16:43] <LaserJock> stgraber: I don't know where it is
[16:44] <stgraber> hang on a sec, looking at my jabber log
[16:44] <jbicha> there's not a lot of difference between primary & preschool or between secondary & tertiary, stuff overlaps
[16:44] <LaserJock> currently no
[16:44] <jbicha> it works for debian
[16:44] <ogra> so you would think gcompris is a good tool for universities ?
[16:44] <LaserJock> Debian is quite different from Ubuntu though
[16:44] <ogra> yeah
[16:44] <stgraber> LaserJock: jono.co.za
[16:45] <ogra> or tuxtype
[16:45] <stgraber> the release notes schema is there, just need to fill it
[16:46] <LaserJock> k, good
[16:47] <jbicha> ogra: we could keep a category for young children, but "ubuntu-edu-tertiary" is too broad and not well-defined
[16:48] <LaserJock> that I can generally agree on
[16:48] <ogra> might be
[16:48] <LaserJock> what I think might be a better option
[16:48] <ogra> but turning it into task driven generates a big amount of maintenance overhead
[16:49] <ogra> and also puts up the question where you stop splitting
[16:49] <LaserJock> is to turn -tertiary or something similar into a "basic educational/research workstation" type install
[16:49] <LaserJock> so rather than doing specific topic-area apps
[16:49] <LaserJock> we do things like bibliography tools
[16:49] <LaserJock> writing and productivity tools
[16:49] <ogra> ++
[16:50] <LaserJock> and some good theming
[16:50] <stgraber> what I discussed a few times, is to have the ability to install everything, then have filtering using xdg to only show a few entries with the list of entries to be configurable (as it depends on the grade, the country and in some cases, the region)
[16:50] <ogra> (not that i would have to decide anything) :)
[16:50]  * ogra points to edubuntu-menus
[16:50] <jbicha> some categorization is useful for findability, if I wanted to find recommended music software for education in Ubuntu, where would I go?
[16:50] <LaserJock> right
[16:50] <LaserJock> well
[16:50] <ogra> it has so much potential
[16:50] <LaserJock> I think there's sort of two area
[16:50] <ogra> and stioll nobody finished it
[16:51] <LaserJock> ogra: now that I'm retired you never know ;-)
[16:51] <ogra> jbicha, software-center
[16:51] <ogra> LaserJock, hah
[16:51] <ogra> LaserJock, you mean like edubuntu grew a community after is stepped back ?
[16:51] <LaserJock> I think we can categorize without metapackages
[16:51] <ogra> yeah
[16:52] <ogra> just add the right patches to software-center
[16:52] <LaserJock> I think it should be considered that we have a custom software-center view
[16:52] <ogra> ++
[16:52] <jbicha> ogra: there's 104 choices for music, I don't know if any of them are useful
[16:52] <jbicha> LaserJock: ooh, we can do that?
[16:52] <ogra> software-center is at some point supposed to replace all GUI package management tools
[16:52] <LaserJock> jbicha: sure, why not?
[16:52] <LaserJock> I was thinking this weekend
[16:52] <ogra> jbicha, software-.center only had its first release, its still open to improvements
[16:53] <ogra> lucid is the perfect time to spec such additions
[16:53] <LaserJock> that we need a core Edubuntu
[16:53] <jbicha> yeah, I just wasn't creative enough to think of that
[16:53] <LaserJock> that's about theming, productivity, and a general educational feel
[16:53] <LaserJock> *without* specific educational content areas
[16:53] <LaserJock> and without much age specificity
[16:54] <ogra> yeah
[16:54] <LaserJock> and then add on those layers
[16:54] <LaserJock> what we're doing now is the opposite
[16:54] <LaserJock> making the general (edubuntu-desktop) depend on the specific
[16:54] <LaserJock> I think we should reverse that and make the specific depend on the general
[16:54] <LaserJock> and make the specific more accessible to the end user
[16:55] <LaserJock> I think that could be done via Ubiquity and Software Center
[16:56] <LaserJock> essentially
[16:57] <LaserJock> I'm thinking Edubuntu should be "plugin" based
[16:57] <LaserJock> we provide a core and the means to plug in extras edu goodness
[16:57] <LaserJock> s/extras/extra/
[16:59] <ogra> LaserJock, and you dare to resign with such an idea in mind ? tsk
[16:59] <LaserJock> I got the ideas
[16:59] <LaserJock> just not the time :(
[17:00] <jbicha> have we considered the KDE desktop for Edubuntu? I mean there's kde-edu but not a similar project for GNOME
[17:01] <LaserJock> jbicha: edubuntu-desktop-kde
[17:02] <LaserJock> if we consider this plugin-based design I think it would be entirely conceivable to make it work very well on Kubuntu
[17:02] <LaserJock> I think you still need to pick one in terms of the DVD
[17:02] <jbicha> but GNOME's the default, is GNOME more usable (or better supported by Ubuntu) in schools?
[17:02] <alkisg> How hard is it for an admin to provide a list of packages? Do we really have to give such a big focus to package selection? Wouldn't it be better if we focused in some "out of the box" solutions? (like e.g. prepared ldap/nfs configurations...)
[17:02] <LaserJock> alkisg: I agree
[17:03]  * alkisg is right onto that this year... :)
[17:04] <LaserJock> but some "out of the box" solutions will be app-dependent
[17:05] <LaserJock> consider the "parent with small kids" solution
[17:06] <alkisg> Well, we could provide him a dansguardian-based solution or something...
[17:06] <LaserJock> preciously
[17:06] <LaserJock> I think looking at out of the box "solutions" as plugins to a core Edubuntu sounds interesting
[17:07] <LaserJock> so what's needed are:
[17:07] <LaserJock> 1) the core
[17:07]  * alkisg thinks more people will be interested in this than in meta-packages
[17:07] <LaserJock> 2) a few "solutions" that Edubuntu does *very* well
[17:07] <LaserJock> 3) putting it all on an installation media
[17:09] <LaserJock> it would be good *hint* to spec this out and see if it could work for Lucid
[17:12] <jbicha> so these "solutions" would be separate from the normal deb dependency system....because otherwise it's just metapackages with a different name (& possibly philosophy)
[17:15] <LaserJock> they might be implemented via metapackages
[17:15] <LaserJock> it doesn't matter a whole lot
[17:16] <LaserJock> it's more the design of it than the actual implementation method
[17:18] <jbicha> by the way, does anyone have a list of stuff that needs to be packaged, the software I could find (like BlueJ) has been too complicated
[17:19] <LaserJock> unless something is brand new, if we dont' have a package yet in Debian/Ubuntu it's probably for a reason :-0
[17:19] <LaserJock> :-) rather
[17:20] <alkisg> LaserJock (since I think is in your field) have you looked at http://phet.colorado.edu/index.php for packaging?
[17:21] <jbicha> yeah, but...you say you need help with packaging
[17:22] <LaserJock> jbicha: ah, well by packaging I usually mean package maintenance
[17:22] <LaserJock> jbicha: things like that moodle fixing you did
[17:22] <LaserJock> alkisg: I don't think those are open source
[17:23] <jbicha> LaserJock: oh ok, that's probably better than starting from scratch anyway
[17:23] <jbicha> http://phet.colorado.edu/about/licensing.php
[17:23] <LaserJock> ok, yeah, great
[17:24] <LaserJock> so yeah, I guess they'd be a candidate
[17:24] <alkisg> scratch could also be a candidate...
[17:24] <LaserJock> it used to be we didn't have a Free java VM, which ruled out us shipping and java apps
[17:24] <alkisg> http://scratch.mit.edu/
[17:24]  * LaserJock runs
[17:24] <alkisg> Heh :)
[17:24] <LaserJock> I don't want to touch anything related to Squeak :-)
[17:25] <LaserJock> but yeah, somebody should look at scratch
[17:27] <alkisg> Also I've heard many teachers here using http://belvedere.sourceforge.net/ ...
[17:28] <LaserJock> interesting
[17:29] <alkisg> Finally, klatin was used but is no longer maintained upstream :(
[17:30] <LaserJock> yeah, that died during KDE3 -> KDE4
[17:37] <jbicha> oh, neat, there's already a PPA for scratch https://launchpad.net/~scratch/+archive/ppa
[18:00] <mhall119|work> what about squeak?
[18:01] <mhall119|work> scratch is a cool game
[18:01] <mhall119|work> kind of like etoys, only with pre-made art and nicer puzzle-shaped blocks
[18:05] <LaserJock> mhall119|work: squeak and I have a long and not-very-pleasant past :-)
[18:07] <mhall119|work> heh, I can understand
[18:10] <sbalneav> ok, time for me and jammcq to head to the airport
[18:11] <sbalneav> be on tonight
[18:13] <LaserJock> sbalneav: k
[18:41] <LaserJock> hmm
[18:41] <LaserJock> I wonder if we should combine the release notes and release announcement
[18:42] <highvoltage> LaserJock: pong
[18:42] <highvoltage> hi LaserJock
[18:43] <highvoltage> LaserJock: my initial understanding was that it would be pretty much the same
[18:43] <highvoltage> LaserJock: sorry that I didn't finish it (or even start it properly), I just haven't been able to concentrate enough to just get it done
[18:44] <LaserJock> highvoltage: well, the Ubuntu release notes are mostly (here are known problems)
[18:45] <LaserJock> highvoltage: whereas the release announcement is all the "this is who we are and how you get it"
[18:45] <LaserJock> I don't know how many "known problems" we're going to have that aren't already covered in Ubuntu's notes
[18:46] <LaserJock> perhaps we should have Release Notes be the full version with all the info
[18:46] <LaserJock> and the announcement just be a brief couple paragraphs
[18:48] <highvoltage> LaserJock: that sounds like a very good
[18:48] <highvoltage> LaserJock: awesome opening paragraph you put there
[18:49] <LaserJock> highvoltage: thanks
[18:49] <LaserJock> highvoltage: do you have a little time now?
[18:50] <highvoltage> LaserJock: yep
[18:50] <LaserJock> stgraber: available'ish?
[18:51] <LaserJock> highvoltage: it looks like what Ubuntu does is write the release notes on the wiki and keep a copy there, but the official location (where user and links go to) is on the website
[18:51] <stgraber> LaserJock: doing some iso testing, so yeah
[18:51] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I think it would make sense to do similar so we can update the release notes (I'm guessing there'll have more "known issues" after release)
[18:51] <LaserJock> my general thought is that the Release Notes should be a bit more prominent
[18:52] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ok
[18:52] <LaserJock> in the sense that as time goes by after release and big issues come up
[18:52] <LaserJock> we should document them in the Known Issues
[18:52] <LaserJock> and *then* point people their
[18:52] <LaserJock> *there
[18:52] <LaserJock> so like last release we had this stupid bug in Gcompris that I couldn't fix via an SRU
[18:53] <LaserJock> that should have gone into the release notes, even though I found out about it post-release
[18:53] <LaserJock> and when people had problems I could at least point to the release notes
[18:53] <LaserJock> it could be sort of a "go there first, then ask questions" type thing
[18:54] <LaserJock> thoughts?
[18:54] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I have to leave for a few mintes, I'll be back in about 10 minutes (sorry just have to help someone quickly)
[18:54] <LaserJock> np
[18:55] <stgraber> LaserJock: sounds good
[18:56] <stgraber> not sure we have anything broken at the moment (other than what's common with Ubuntu)
[18:56] <LaserJock> right
[18:56] <stgraber> so we should redirect readers to Ubuntu's as well
[18:56] <stgraber> what's the state of Moodle ? I remember reading about some issues there, has that been fixed ?
[18:56] <LaserJock> we are
[18:56] <LaserJock> I *think* it's fixed :-)
[18:57] <LaserJock> that was going to be something that was going in Known Issues, but I think jbica has fixed that
[18:57] <LaserJock> for know we can basically leave an empty section with "Important issues and workarounds will be noted here"
[18:58] <stgraber> "At the time of the release, we haven't been made aware of any issues outside of these listed in the Ubuntu release notes. Additional information may be added here at a later time" ?
[18:59] <LaserJock> yeah, perfect
[19:30] <highvoltage> hmmm
[19:31] <LaserJock> uh oh
[19:31] <LaserJock> what'd I do now
[19:31] <highvoltage> not you, LP :)
[19:32] <LaserJock> highvoltage, stgraber: can you guys read over what I have so far?
[19:32] <highvoltage> LP's UI and I have never gotten along quite well
[19:32] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I went through it and I think it's good
[19:33] <LaserJock> hmm, there was something I was remembering that should go into known issues but I've forgotten
[19:33] <highvoltage> LaserJock: what's the URL for the edubuntu bugs again? I'm failing to find it atm
[19:33] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I just added some to What's New
[19:33] <LaserJock> highvoltage: bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugsquad/+packagereport ?
[19:33] <LaserJock> that's from memory so YMMV
[19:35] <highvoltage> LaserJock: on the ltsp-cluster line, it has been available before, but what's new this time is that it's now available in the ubuntu archives
[19:35] <LaserJock> well
[19:35] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I've modified the description but I'm not sure whether it's nice.
[19:36] <LaserJock> it doesn't exist until it's in the archives :-)
[19:36] <highvoltage> LaserJock: our previous release notes disagrees!
[19:36] <LaserJock> fine, be that way ;-p
[19:37] <LaserJock> highvoltage: how's that?
[19:37] <highvoltage> LaserJock: good, although reading the 9.04 announcements again I think it's fine like it was
[19:37] <highvoltage> LaserJock: it (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Release/9.04/ReleaseNotes) just mentioned that the thin client supported ltsp-cluster, not that it was available for installation
[19:37] <highvoltage> LaserJock: so your original point there was probably fine
[19:38] <LaserJock> well
[19:38] <LaserJock> tbh I'm kinda of not considering the 9.04 release notes much
[19:38] <LaserJock> that was the old Edubuntu!
[19:38] <highvoltage> :)
[19:38] <highvoltage> LaserJock: *hug*
[19:54] <LaserJock> highvoltage, stgraber: time to put this on the wiki?
[19:55] <highvoltage> LaserJock: +1
[19:55] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I can't think of anything important that isn't covered yet
[19:55] <LaserJock> what URL do we want?
[19:55] <LaserJock>  /Edubuntu/Release/9.10/ReleaseNotes?
[19:56] <highvoltage> LaserJock: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/edubuntu/edubuntuwikisite/wikisite/officialnotes/releasenotes/karmic/9.04/KarmicReleaseNotes
[19:56]  * highvoltage ducks
[19:56] <LaserJock> or should it be /Releases/ (i kind of have a problem with putting multple things into a singular category but maybe that's just me)
[19:57] <highvoltage> LaserJock: as in /Edubuntu/Releases/9.10 ?
[19:57] <LaserJock> yeah
[19:57] <highvoltage> I think that's good
[19:57] <LaserJock> just because we're putting multiple releases in there
[19:58] <highvoltage> *nod*
[20:03] <stgraber> LaserJock: +1
[20:10] <LaserJock> stgraber, highvoltage (and anybody else): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Releases/9.10/ReleaseNotes
[20:10] <LaserJock> I tweaked the known issues section
[20:12] <highvoltage> LaserJock: thanks, that's a relief
[20:14] <LaserJock> highvoltage, stgraber: now working on announcement
[20:14] <LaserJock> I've copied over the top bits from the release notes
[20:15] <LaserJock> I think if we condense that a bit and add in a "Where to get it" I think it should be good
[20:15] <highvoltage> LaserJock: so the Release Announcements will be a few paragraphs?
[20:15] <LaserJock> yeah, I think it should be pretty brief
[20:16] <LaserJock> I guess the most important things are "hey, we're new!" and "here's how you get it"
[20:16] <LaserJock> thoughts?
[20:16] <highvoltage> LaserJock: yeah
[20:21] <LaserJock> gah
[20:21] <highvoltage> and a live gah?
[20:21] <LaserJock> what the heck do you call a LiveCD session?
[20:22] <LaserJock> I want words normal people can understand
[20:22] <highvoltage> I've never known it by any other name than a "Live CD session"
[20:23] <highvoltage> I guess you could spell it out like "try it out by running it directly from the DVD without installing" or something similar
[20:24] <LaserJock> how does that sound?
[20:25] <highvoltage> yeah
[20:25] <highvoltage> feels like it's missing something
[20:25] <highvoltage> I'm in a weird perfectionistic mode where nothing just feels right. sorry :/
[20:26] <highvoltage> I've made a slight change but if it doesn't sound right feel free to remove
[20:26] <LaserJock> well it's only a problem if you dont' fix it ;-)
[20:26] <LaserJock> ah, much better, IMO
[20:27] <LaserJock> highvoltage: how about just plain "modifying your computer"?
[20:27] <highvoltage> k
[20:28] <highvoltage> (I was thinking of that too)
[20:28] <LaserJock> good
[20:28] <LaserJock> highvoltage: s/try/run/ ?
[20:29] <highvoltage> k
[20:29] <LaserJock> let's move on to installation before we pick it to death :-)
[20:29] <highvoltage> heh, indeed
[20:29] <highvoltage> I'm bummed that I don't have an edubuntu iso and not enough bandwidth do sync up :/
[20:30] <highvoltage> it would be nice to have an installation guide with screenshots again
[20:30] <LaserJock> highvoltage: since we already described what you can do with the DVD above I suggest we maybe just tell how to get the .iso and link to how to burn it
[20:30] <highvoltage> I guess I could still do that after the 1st
[20:30] <LaserJock> sure
[20:37] <highvoltage> (brb)
[20:42] <vmlintu> Hi! Anyone else getting nbd+squashfs errors when rebooting ltsp thin clients on karmic? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/457702
[20:44] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I don't have isos but I have the karmic repositories at least
[20:44] <highvoltage> LaserJock: if you don't find a kde user I could install kde on my netbook if there's enough space
[20:45] <LaserJock> it's just a quick thing
[20:47] <LaserJock> highvoltage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Releases/9.10/ReleaseAnnouncement
[20:48] <LaserJock> I want to add a thing on how to install the app bundles from Kubuntu
[20:51] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ok installing kpackagekit... I just confirmed with #kubuntu that that's what they actually use
[21:03] <LaserJock> good grief
[21:03] <LaserJock> like all the servers are crawling today
[21:04] <highvoltage> I guess everyone is keeping their debmirrors as up to date as possible in anticipation
[21:05] <LaserJock> I need to get how to get to kpackagekit :(
[21:11] <LaserJock> ok, done
[21:12] <LaserJock> highvoltage: can you do the wiki - > edubuntu.org on release day?
[21:16] <LaserJock> highvoltage, stgraber: OK, I'm done.
[21:16] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Releases/9.10/ReleaseAnnouncement
[21:16] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Releases/9.10/ReleaseNotes
[21:17] <LaserJock> ^^ those need to be put on edubuntu.org for release day
[21:17] <LaserJock> make sure to note that there are 2 FIXME markers in the announcement
[21:17] <LaserJock> I don't know what the exact URL for the .iso is going to be
[21:18] <LaserJock> There is a hopefully final .iso up at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/20091027.1/
[21:18] <LaserJock> please test those if you can
[21:19] <LaserJock> and with that I'm out
[21:19] <LaserJock> not sure when I'll be on next
[21:19] <LaserJock> so have a great release everybody and thanks!
[22:57] <dtrask> Hey all....I need help....this is somewhat related to edubuntu as it is for Open1to1.org and the image that I create for school netbooks....
[22:57] <dtrask> I have had schools complaining that students are creating "ad hoc" networks via network-manager and thus wreaking havoc on the school wireless network
[22:58] <dtrask> does anyone know of a way (clean or hack...I'm desperate here) of disabling the ability to create...and/or connect to an ad-hoc wireless network?