zookoHooray Python 2.6.4 is out. https://mail.google.com/mail/?shva=1#inbox/124930ebf2a4eb6101:21
zookooops, not a good link01:21
JanCpython.org will be good enough I suppose  ;)01:22
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ScottKYeah, just don't link python.com by mistake.01:24
JanCScottK: considering that I use that site several times a week, not much chance for such mistakes from me  ;-)01:25
JanCand python.com seems to be about "other snakes"01:26
JanC(and NSFW)01:27
JanCwell, depending on your job etc.01:27
zookoHm, on second thought I don't see how to generate a smaller test case than "rebuild libcrypto++8".02:28
zookoI would assume that the problem is between the amd64 asm in Crypto++ and the recent patches to gas, but that's just a guess on my part.02:28
zookoI guess I should do what doko suggested and try reverting one or a few of the hunks in binutils, rebuild binutils, then try the "rebuild libcrypto++8" test?02:29
zookoSheesh, that's a lot of tedious effort.  I wish there were a robot that would do that for me.02:29
zookoIt took me most of today to manually bisect and identify which binutils update introduced the problem.02:30
ScottKzooko: But imagine how great it's going to feel when you nail it.02:52
ScottKI had one of these a couple of weeks ago where I ended up having to build kdelibs one svn committ at a time.02:52
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bryce_"Installing new version of config file /etc/init/gdm.conf ..."06:07
bryce_is /etc/gdm/gdm.conf no longer used?  Doesn't seem to appear on my test system anymore.06:08
cjwatsonbryce_: /etc/init/gdm.conf is an upstart job, not gdm configuration06:13
cjwatsonI don't think /etc/gdm/gdm.conf is used any more, though, no06:13
cjwatsonthere's custom.conf for a few things06:13
bryce_cjwatson, ok, guess this is something that changed while I was on leave.  Is it known that bulletproof-x no longer kicks in when there is a bad xorg.conf?06:15
bryce_cjwatson, (do we care about this use case anymore?)06:16
cjwatsonthat I don't know06:16
cjwatsonthough sounds potentially accidental06:16
bryce_problem can be reproduced by setting Driver "foo" in xorg.conf.06:17
bryce_(beware; only do it if you hate your computer)06:17
bryce_it seems gdm tries to start X 5 times, but fails and then exits06:17
bryce_upstart sees gdm has exited and restarts it06:18
bryce_on my system this goes on for a while and then the console locks up.  ssh over ethernet still works06:18
bryce_we no longer ship an xorg.conf either, so maybe this is not an important use case, but people might have an xorg.conf from an upgrade or something06:19
bryce_aha, this is bug #44163806:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 441638 in gdm "gdm main process keeps dying and respawning on reboot after karmic beta install" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44163806:28
dholbachgood morning06:45
pittiGood morning06:57
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slangaseksuperm1: you know this myththemes upload happened well after the deadline for the start of image mastering, right? :)13:15
slangaseksuperm1: it happens that we're doing a respin shortly for some ubiquity bugs - so there's a window where I can include this... how well tested is it?13:15
slangaseksuperm1: also, unversioned Replaces against an existing opens the door to future problems, things that should have been file conflicts being silently swept under the rug by dpkg13:18
ttxsoren: would you consider bug 461725 a feature or a bug ?13:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 461725 in upstart "rc-sysinit job might start before loopback is up" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/46172513:21
ttxsoren: slangasek already said he considers differences with what rcS provided to be a regression13:22
sorenttx: I think slangasek made the case very well yesterday, saying "everything that rcS did for us before should still be guaranteed"13:22
ttxsoren: hm, right13:23
sorenttx: At the very least, if such an assumption is broken, it should be documented..13:23
soren...and there should be another way to make sure it's taken care of.13:23
dpmslangasek, thanks for letting me know about the translations notes. I've made some small changes according to the latest update of the translation stats yesterday, so I'm just letting you know in case you need extra notification: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/ReleaseAnnouncement?action=diff&rev2=7&rev1=6 and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/TechnicalOverview?action=diff&rev2=128&rev1=12713:23
soren..but seeing as this affects things that don't have upstart jobs, but as old style runlevel init scripts, I don't see how we can do that.13:24
* hyperair waves at YokoZar13:24
sorenKeybuk: May we invite you to join the discussion? :)13:25
slangasekultimately, the way it should be taken care of is by having everything migrated to upstart jobs13:25
YokoZarhello there hyperair13:25
slangasekbut in the meantime, backwards-compat should be preserved13:25
* liw thinks s_langasek should write a book about distro release management13:26
slangasekstarting rc-sysinit later isn't a problem13:26
slangasekliw: what, and become dispensible? :-)13:26
Chipzzsoren: I'm no expert at all on the issue, but... 1) if I understand correctly, rc-sysinit compat is implemented as an upstart job itself; 2) upstart jobs can have a pre-req on the old rcS stuff13:27
hyperairYokoZar: hello there. this is regarding the ia32-libs issue, if you haven't already noticed =)13:27
liwslangasek, there ain't nothing to make you dispensable, but writing the book would mean you'd have a convenient place to point at when people repeat mistakes :)13:27
sorenChipzz: Oh, there are certainly mechanics for doing it.13:27
Chipzzso why not add that pre-req to the upstart job that handles rc-sysinit compat?13:27
slangasekliw: heh :)13:27
ttxliw: so you should get plenty of time developing that killer picture manager ?13:27
YokoZarhyperair: which issue?13:28
sorenChipzz: The discussion is whether or not it's desirable. I believe it is. Key people are undecided.13:28
liwttx, yes, it is my cunning plan to get Steve have some free time so he can write the missing bits13:28
YokoZarslangasek: Don't think of yourself as "dispensable", think "modular"13:29
hyperairYokoZar: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs/+bug/24839213:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 248392 in ia32-libs "32bit libgl search for dri at wrong place on 64bit system" [Low,Confirmed]13:29
ttxYokoZar: plugin-able ?13:29
Chipzzsoren: in my (irrelevant :P) opinion, if ppl are too lazy to migrate to upstart jobs, they shouldn't complain about being started later13:29
sorenChipzz: Just because Ubuntu decides to switch to upstart doesn't make every person out there who ever wrote an init script lazy for not following suit.13:31
Chipzzsoren: I was referring to ubuntu packages that haven't migrated13:31
sorenChipzz: So was I.13:32
Chipzzthe rc-sysinit compat stuff is exactly for external stuff13:32
Chipzzbut maybe "lazy" was a bit unnuanced :)13:32
Chipzzanyway, just my 2c13:33
YokoZarhyperair: so it's a mesa bug -- did you ever find the mesa bug that was said to already exist in the winehq thread?13:33
sorenChipzz: there's little point in providing a compatibility system that provides an incompatible environment.13:34
hyperairYokoZar: i did, yes.13:34
YokoZarhyperair: link please (so I can attach it to launchpad)13:34
hyperairbut it's just related13:34
hyperairit's not the same13:34
Chipzzsoren: in what way would it be incompatible? or are you referring to the state of affairs atm?13:34
YokoZarwell, the hard-coding is a bug we should file then13:35
hyperairYokoZar: http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2333513:35
ubottuFreedesktop bug 23335 in Drivers/DRI/i965 "[wine] Mesa returns invalid framebuffer status" [Normal,Assigned]13:35
hyperairYokoZar: yes, pretty much. which is the bug that's mentioned there.13:35
hyperairYokoZar: imo it's hardcoded based on the --prefix passed to mesa.13:35
sorenChipzz: The loopback interface used to be configured when rc2.d/S* ran. That is no longer the case.13:35
hyperairYokoZar: i'm not sure about how ia32-libs is built, but is it built with --libdir=/usr/lib32?13:35
sorenChipzz: No longer /necessarily/ the case, I mean.13:36
sorenIt's a race.13:36
hyperairYokoZar: and i raelly meant that it's hardcoded based on --libdir.13:36
Chipzzsoren: right, so you're referring to the current state of affairs :)13:36
YokoZarhyperair: no it's nowhere near smart enough to do that.  It literally downloads the 32 bit packages, rips their libraries out, and shoves them into /usr/lib3213:36
sorenChipzz: Yes.13:36
hyperairYokoZar: perhaps the bundled source/deb pair within ia32-libs could be patched.13:37
YokoZarhyperair: accordingly it may be ok for us to have a workaround patch in mesa itself until we can fix the issue properly13:37
YokoZarhyperair: that's an option too13:37
hyperairYokoZar: what do you mean workaround patch?13:37
hyperairto fallback on /usr/lib<arch>?13:38
YokoZarWell that would actually be a proper fix I guess13:38
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hyperairi'll go talk to some mesa peoples then.13:40
hyperairis it possible to get this fix into karmic?13:40
hyperaireven if this is just a workaround, it hides a more serious bug in wine (segfault issue)13:41
YokoZarhyperair: with an SRU shortly after release probably13:41
YokoZarI dunno though depends on how fast you are ;)13:41
YokoZarfor inspiration you can look at how glib does things (asac and I were working on this earlier) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs/+bug/36949813:42
ubottuLaunchpad bug 369498 in glib2.0 "32bits gtk and glib modules not found in ia32-libs" [Medium,In progress]13:42
asacyes. i think the patch i prepared shouldnt be that far off from what is needed13:42
asacjust needs to be checked why it didnt work13:43
asacmust be something obvious13:43
YokoZarit did work with canberra I think though13:43
YokoZareg we have /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/i486-pc-linux-gnu13:43
hyperairah GTK_HOST eh..13:44
YokoZarmaybe the issue with gvfs was a similar hard-coded path determined by --prefix at build time13:44
hyperairactually there are loads of these13:44
directhexoh, there was a missing lib in ia32-libs. libgnomekeyring i think13:46
directhexused by adobe air13:46
YokoZardirecthex: is it still missing?  I went on a blitz adding libraries about a month back or so13:46
directhexoh, i haven't checked for about a month or so13:47
sorenmvo: I'm looking at bug #461077.. The dpkgterminallog does not mention mysql-server anywhere. How can this happen?13:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 461077 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 "package mysql-server-5.1 5.1.37-1ubuntu5 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script killed by signal (Broken pipe)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/46107713:48
directhexYokoZar, definitely not there.13:49
mvosoren: I don't know, I suspect it might be happen in pre-configure already13:53
mvosoren: the log has "debconf: unable to initialize frontend: Dialog^M13:53
mvodebconf: (Dialog frontend requires a screen at least 13 lines tall and 31 columns wide.)^M13:53
sorenmvo: Perhaps. Hmm... Ok, thanks.13:58
=== bjf-afk is now known as bjf
Keybukslangasek, soren: I was only referring to the fact that loopback was never up before rcS14:15
Keybukrc2, certainly14:15
sorenKeybuk: You don't believe it was brought up by rcS.d/S40networking?14:16
sorenOh, I see what you're saying.14:17
sorenPerhaps I'm misunderstanding rc-sysvinit.14:17
slangasekKeybuk: something must have been lost in communication; I was asserting that before the rc2 scripts are run, everything that was previously handled by rcS should be finished14:17
* soren rereads14:17
slangasekincluding the bits that have been converted to upstart jobs14:17
sorenrc-sysinit is the job that switches to runlevel 2, isn't it?14:18
soren(or another configured runlevel)14:18
sorenAh, no.14:18
sorenWell, yes, that too.14:18
Keybukit's probably correct to change rc-sysinit14:18
Keybukmaybe to:14:18
sorenbut it also runs the rcS script?14:18
Keybuk  start on startup and filesystem and net-device-up lo14:19
sorenstart on (filesystem and virtual-network)14:19
sorenThat matches the old behaviour.14:19
Keybukexcept for the lack of "virtual-network" event ;)14:19
Keybuk(adding "on startup" fixes another bug - which WOULD BE NICE)14:19
sorenOh, I was thinking of the virtual-filesystems event. Bah. My bad.14:19
sorenstart on (startup and networking) ?14:20
Keybuk  start on startup and filesystem and net-device-up lo14:20
sorenKeybuk: If the goal is to make sure that what was true when starting runlevel 2 pre-upstartification, it should be networking, me thinks.14:22
sorenKeybuk: If the goal is to make sure that what was true when starting runlevel 2 pre-upstartification, is still true now, it should be networking, I mean.14:23
Keybukthen you will have the very strange effect where rcS/rc2 don't get started until well after X14:23
Keybukand honestly, "networking" hasn't started networking for many releases now14:23
Keybukso you're being unnecessarily picky :p14:24
Keybukwe've called ifup from udev for *ages*14:24
Keybuksince hardy certainly14:24
Keybukpossibly before14:24
sorenKeybuk: Except for bonded interfaces, for instance.14:24
Keybukin fact, I think we may have even called ifup from hotplug14:24
soren...and similar stuff.14:24
Keybukyou could do that14:25
Keybukthe side-effect will be quite odd an unexpected though ;)14:25
sorenWhat, the bond device being configured, but having no physical interfaces attached to it? :)14:25
Keybukno, I mean the X11 sockets being removed after X is running <g>14:25
hyperairYokoZar: a bit of digging shows that exporting DRI_DRIVER_SEARCH_DIR to /usr/lib/dri:/usr/lib32/dri during build should do the trick.14:26
sorenYes, that would certainly qualify for "odd and unexpected" :)14:26
Keybukis the loopback device being missing the problem,14:26
sorenKeybuk: In this case, yes.14:26
Keybukor is an actual network device being missing the problem?14:26
YokoZarhyperair: ooh, that does sound promising14:26
sorenKeybuk: Loopback.14:26
Keybukin which case, only fix the problem14:26
hyperairYokoZar: =)14:26
sorenKeybuk: I'm just less convinced that you that that is the whole problem. :)14:26
Keybukthere are bound to be regressions throughout the switch-over14:27
Keybukoh, I know it's not the whole problem14:27
Keybukall the time we have both sysvinit and upstart jobs, we're going to have bugs14:27
hyperairYokoZar: http://pastebin.com/f49573d3e is what i have for mesa.14:27
* soren nods14:27
Keybukside-effect of only having 6 months for each release14:27
Keybukcan't develop everything in 6 months <g>14:27
slangasekright, other network interfaces not being guaranteed up at the end of 'networking' isn't a regression14:27
sorenI think it is, but I realise that fixing that causes other problems and may not be as critical.14:29
YokoZarhyperair: do you mean to define DEFAULT_DRIVER_DIR as that or just export DRI_DRIVER_SEARCH_DIR ?14:29
slangaseksoren: no, it's not a /regression/14:29
sorenslangasek: I think it is.14:29
slangasekyou're mistaken, and I defer to Keybuk to prove it :)14:29
hyperairYokoZar: that's a patch meant for upstream. downstream, without the patch, just exporting DRI_DRIVER_SEARCH_DIR will do the trick.14:30
hyperairYokoZar: it's untested though. i'm going to give it a go14:30
YokoZarGo for it :)14:30
slangaseksoren: by "not a regression" I mean "this hasn't regressed since jaunty"14:30
* hyperair has a full archives mirror on LAN ;-)14:30
sorenslangasek: So do I.14:30
sorenslangasek: bonded interfaces were brought up by rcS.d/S40networking.14:30
sorenslangasek: ..so when you reached rc2.d/S* they were available.14:31
sorenslangasek: That is no longer necessarily the case, as you yourself determined yesterday.14:31
slangaseksoren: that could only be done if the underlying physical hardware had been detected and had its drivers loaded first, and that's not guaranteed to be the case14:31
YokoZarhyperair: there is an (awkward) way to supply a home-built package into ia32-libs for testing too.  So just make sure mesa doesn't break on i386 and then we can push it as a normal update (and then have ia32-libs pull it in the natural way)14:31
slangasekhurray for udev asynchronicity14:31
hyperairYokoZar: how?14:32
Keybukright, it was never guaranteed that the underlying interfaces were up before S40networking ;)14:32
Keybukor even the underlying hardware14:32
slangaseksoren: now, there's a difference in the likelihood of a user /hitting/ this state14:32
sorenslangasek: Not /strictly/ guaranteed, but in almost every case a very reasonable assumption.14:32
Keybuksoren: we always had a race condition14:32
Keybukyou could have triggered it by just buying faster hardware14:32
YokoZarhyperair: you apt-get source ia32-libs and put it in the pkgs folder in it ;)14:32
Keybukso, in theory, you need to just get slower hardware :p14:32
Keybuk(or slower hardware, I can't remember which way things work)14:33
sorenKeybuk: Yet I didn't, and I've changed nothing about my hardware, but the system behaves differently. It's racy now on systems that did not used to be. that's a regression in my book.14:33
slangasekKeybuk: faster hardware> or putting your bridging interface on USB network devices :)14:33
slangaseksoren: it really was racy before, too, you just never hit the race; this is a quantitative difference only14:34
sorenI'm not hugely interested in discussing theoretical properties of asynchronous device configuration. I'm talking about what /actually/ happens and how it affects users.14:34
Keybuksoren: that's like saying the fact that the default theme is more brown than before is a regression14:34
Keybukit was always brown14:34
hyperairYokoZar: ah.14:34
sorenWhy the fsck do I always end up having this kind of argument with people?14:35
sorenForget it.14:35
sorenForgive me for trying to fix people's problems.14:35
hyperairYokoZar: how do i get ia32-libs to add an extra symlink?14:35
YokoZarhyperair: you add it manually in debian/rules14:35
YokoZarhyperair: using dh_link14:36
YokoZarthere's a bunch of examples in there to follow14:36
Keybuksoren: we're not saying there's no race here14:36
sorenKeybuk: I know.14:36
Keybukjust the right way to fix that race is to convert the job to upstart14:37
Keybukwhich is designed, from the ground up, to avoid races14:37
sorenKeybuk: I know.14:37
slangaseksoren: the point is precisely that this problem can't be fixed without converting the bridge initialization to an asynchronous model as well, and you'll lose a lot of time trying to hack around it14:37
sorenI'm just saying that we're trying to provide a compatibility layer for stuff that is not yet converted to upstart jobs and that the compatibility layer provides an environment that demonstrably is /functionally/ incompatible with what we're trying to be compatible with.14:39
sorenI find that unfortunate, but if the owner of the project that holds the keys to the the magic box of tricks to fix it as well as the release manger things differently, I'm not going to waste more time on it.14:40
Keybuksoren: well, not entirely14:41
Keybukit's compatible with what we *had*14:41
Keybukit's just not compatible with what people thought we had14:41
sorenThe operative word being "functionally".14:42
Keybukand that's quite a big difference ;)14:42
sorenHey, I can split hairs almost as well as the next guy.14:42
Keybukcf. recovery mode :)14:42
Keybukyou could quibble about the return value of runlevel ;)14:43
Keybuk(during rcS)14:43
Keybukthat's much more fun14:43
* jdstrand remembers dealing with that one...14:43
Keybukin this case, I made a decision not to be compatible14:44
Keybukand instead fixed a bug <g>14:44
superm1slangasek, yes sorry it was so late, these problems were just caught in testing last night.  it's had some testing by myself and someone else with a PPA during a dist-upgrade to make sure it DTRT (and does). that's a good point about the versioned file replaces, i can repeat the upload with that corrected for a re-roll14:45
slangaseksoren: AFAICS this conversation stems from you disagreeing with a very narrowly construed statement of mine that a particular race condition existed prior to karmic ("is not a regression").  I certainly didn't say the current behavior isn't unfortunate; I'm just perhaps a bit more sanguine about it than you because it's one in a long historical series of unfortunate design problems with sysvinit in general and the Debian init scripts in particular..14:46
slangasek... and also because I'm not the one who needs this to work personally14:46
slangasekthis is currently buggy; overall, however, I think karmic's init is no more buggy than jaunty's was, for the most part the bugs have just moved up the stack a little14:47
slangaseksuperm1: yes, please reupload with that change, and I'll quick-accept to get it into the mythbuntu reroll14:47
superm1great thanks14:47
ionkeybuk: What’s the kernel in the ubuntu-boot PPA for?14:48
Keybukion: tell you later :p14:49
cody-somervilleugh. gnome-screensaver has stopped working again in Xubuntu.14:49
* cody-somerville moans.14:49
sorenslangasek: I don't believe in resting on laurels because we're "no worse" than Jaunty. People using stuff like bonding device are not the sort of people who install beta versions or RC's of stuff, so they will not start seeing the problems and complaining about them until after release. I happen to work on the edition of Ubuntu that has to deal with them, so by extension it annoys me.14:52
soren...and I just don't know what to tell them if they come complaining. "sorry, you shouldn't run Karmic, so please use the downgrade tool.. Oh, wait.."14:52
ionAdd a sysvrc script that just waits for the bonding device to appear. :-P14:53
mvotseliot: can you have a look at #459829 please ?14:54
sorenIf I /know/ what the fix is, I'd like to do it for them instead of having to tell them one. at. a. time.14:54
tseliotmvo: sure14:54
tseliotbug #45982914:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 459829 in update-manager "Upgrade from Hardy to Karmic didn't remove lrm-video" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45982914:54
mvotseliot: if its true that this causes failure on all nvidia systems on upgrade, that is pretty bad14:54
tseliotmvo: from what I remember that script modprobes the nvidia modules and we don't need that anymore14:56
slangaseksoren: so, do you know what the fix is here?  Because as I said, I don't see a way to reliably address this without a lot of work to make bridge devices work asynchronously, and then we need some way for the rc job to wait for "the network" generally14:56
tseliotmvo: so it's entirely possible that it's causing some nasty problems to the nvidia drivers14:56
sorenslangasek: In Jaunty, rcS.d/S40networking was finished when we reached runlevel 2.14:57
sorenslangasek: I realise that adding that dependency causes other problems, but virtaully all of this discussion has been about whether or not "being racy" is a binary, not about how to solve the problems.14:58
slangaseksoren: and with the way things are parallelized now, with rcS.d much shorter and faster, using that script as a synchronization point is not likely to do the job anymore14:58
slangasekyou're much more likely to reach that script before all your network hardware is up14:58
sorenThen we're far worse off than I thought.14:59
sorenthat means bonding device will *never* be configured.14:59
sorenslangasek: but good point.14:59
liwwait, are you talking about the network interfaces not coming up properly on karmic when a static /etc/network/interfaces is used and has bridging configured? 'cause I'm seeing that occasionally on my desktop machine15:00
slangasekliw: yes15:00
sorenliw: Yes.15:00
liwis there a workaround? (or you can tell me to read all of backlog)15:00
slangasekliw: stick a sleep 5 in /etc/init/networking.conf?15:01
liwoh, that's clever. I'll do that, thanks15:01
liw(as soon as I figure out the actual syntax)15:02
slangasekliw: I mean 'pre-start exec sleep 5'15:02
sorenliw: have a cronjob run "ifup -a" every minute or so15:02
sistpoty|workwhy does it work for me then? :)15:03
liwslangasek, thanks (I used sleep 30, just to be sure)15:03
liwsistpoty|work, if it's a race condition, you're just lucky; wanna play some poker? :)15:03
slangasekdepends on things like how long it takes to init your network devices, how many distinct local filesystems you have, how much other extraneous hardware you have in the box15:04
slangasekeven depends on how initramfs-tools is configured on your system15:05
liwsoren, has the KVM page on help.ubuntu.com (or wherever it is these days) been updated with this workaround? if not, could you take care of that?15:05
=== cody-somerville_ is now known as cody-somerville
slangaseksoren, liw: so that workaround takes care of half of the problem, the other half being that we still need to make rc wait for networking15:12
sorenliw: I only just realised this very problem twenty minutes ago.15:18
sorenliw: 14:59:06 < soren> Then we're far worse off than I thought.15:18
sorenliw: The moment of epiphany :)15:18
liwsoren, that's more than 1500 seconds for you have to have patched the docs ;)15:19
sorenslangasek: Yeah. Adding the sleep will make that problem even worse.15:19
sorenliw: I think it should be somewhere not quite as virtualisation specific.15:19
slangasekKeybuk: do you plan to SRU for bug #461725?15:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 461725 in upstart "rc-sysinit job might start before loopback is up" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/46172515:21
Keybukwould you like me to SRU for bug 46172515:22
ubottuLaunchpad bug 461725 in upstart "rc-sysinit job might start before loopback is up" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/46172515:22
Keybukthen I will ;-)15:26
LaserJockslangasek: should the latest edubuntu .iso be up on the iso tracker? I don't see anything listed for final release testing15:27
slangasekLaserJock: I can post it, but we're in a full-spectrum reroll right now due to some generic installer bugs that turned up15:27
slangasekLaserJock: if you'd like me to post it for you for smoketesting purposes, I can do so15:28
LaserJockslangasek: ok, no problem, I just wondered what you needed from us for final release15:28
slangasekLaserJock: will you do a release announcement this cycle that I should link to? (e.g., http://edubuntu.org/news/9.10-release)15:31
slangasekLaserJock: there's also upgrade testing that can be done in the meantime (http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/upgrade/all)15:32
LaserJockslangasek: yes to the release announcement15:32
LaserJockslangasek: and that's the url we'll use15:33
=== Whoopie_ is now known as Whoopie
tseliotmvo: are you going to remove /ect/modprobe.d/lrm-video in dist-upgrades?15:38
pittitseliot: what wrote/shipped that file?15:40
pittishouldn't that package clean it up on upgrades? (to also work with aptitude/apt-get dist-upgrade)15:40
tseliotpitti: linux-restricted-modules-common i.e. the l-r-m15:40
tseliotI don't know why it's not removed15:40
pittiwas it a conffile?15:40
pittiI suppose something conflicts: l-r-m on upgrade15:41
pittibut packages are removed, not purged15:41
tseliotit's a script which used to modprobe fglrx and nvidia15:41
pittiI meant, was it shipped in the package, or created/removed in postinst/postrm?15:42
tseliotI *think* it was in the package15:42
mvotseliot: I'm currently setting up my test machine with nvidia to see if I can reproduce, but yeah, I think something should rmeove it15:42
* tseliot nods15:42
mvopitti: its in the package, shows up in apt-file-search15:42
mvopitti: and a conffile15:43
tseliotfrom what I remember it modprobed either nvidia, nvidia_new or nvidia_legacy (from the l-r-m) or just nvidia if envyng was there15:44
pittiKeybuk: current m-i-t still evaluates files which don't end in .conf ?15:44
pittitseliot: ^ ok, so that won't help us then15:46
pittiKeybuk: thanks15:46
mvotseliot: and fglrx it seems15:46
tseliotyes, I noticed that. It should just give you a warning15:46
tseliotmvo: yes, of course. Fortunately there was only 1 version of fglrx15:47
mvois there something like fglrx-common? it sounds like we should just rm -f it in nvidia-common (and fglrx-common)15:47
tseliotno, I don't think we've ever had an fglrx-common script15:48
tseliotmvo: did you mean nvidia-kernel-common?15:48
tseliotnvidia-common is a different thing15:48
tseliotok, I misread what you wrote15:49
tseliotrm -f in the preinst or postinst of nvidia-common should work15:50
mvotseliot: ok, cool. I prepare a update. thanks for your input15:51
GizmoHi. I am interested to find out if the Ubuntu installer has been modified with regards to the treatment of the swap partition? I am comparing two versions 8.10 and 9.04, and I have found 8.10 to cache some setup data in the swap partition, but 9.04 seems not to do so. I would like to know what code has been changed and where if anyone could point me in the right direction?15:51
tseliotmvo: thanks for reporting the problem :-)15:51
tseliotpitti: do you know why hal might be failing (at random) to apply some settings in the synaptics fdi?15:52
pittitseliot: no idea, without further details15:53
pittithe XML might be malformed or the cache outdated15:53
pittithose are the two most common ones15:53
tseliotpitti: I thought of the latter but apw told me that it's random15:53
tseliotis the cache updated automatically on boot?15:54
pittitseliot: no, just when something installs/changes/removes an .fdi15:54
pittiit's a dpkg trigger15:54
apwpitti, i see the 'fix' for the 10v touchpad fail to apply about one boot in 4 or 515:54
apwi saw it occur for scott too today, so its not just me15:55
=== dmart_ is now known as dmart
tseliotthat fix matches the product id of the netbook and apply the appropriate options accordingly15:55
pittiwhich .fdi are we talking about?15:55
cjwatsonGizmo: "setup data"?15:56
Keybuk(as in he saw Keybuk thump his computer angrily)15:56
pittiapw: would be interesting if you can reproduce it under hal debug mode (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingHal); I'd love to see a log where it's failing15:56
Gizmocjwatson: yes - bits and pieces of text gathered during the iinstallation15:57
cjwatsonGizmo: I'd expect that to be essentially random15:57
Gizmocjwatson: yes, I think it is.15:58
cjwatsonthe swap partition will contain all sorts of random stuff that happened to be in memory15:58
liwGizmo, isn't it normal that the swap partition has some data that was in RAM during installation but got swapped out due to memory constraints?15:58
pittiapw: and corresponding lshal output15:58
cjwatsonto my knowledge there was no relevant behavioural change15:58
cjwatsonany emergent change will be due to things like slightly different memory consumption figures causing different swap usage15:59
Gizmocjwatson: liw yes, it is. But my tests are indiciating currently that on the same machine with the same amount of RAM data is swapped with 8.10 but not with 9.04. I was curious to know if this was a deliberate change or just circumstantial.15:59
cjwatson8.10 and 9.04 don't take up exactly the same amount of memory due to installation15:59
Gizmoswapped from the installation, to be precise15:59
cjwatsonI'm curious why you're bothering to test this :)15:59
cjwatsonit's certainly circumstantial15:59
Gizmocjwatson: I am doing a study.16:00
cjwatsondo you understand virtual memory, in general?16:00
=== jamie is now known as Guest82689
ccheneyusing some swap doesn't really tell you anything16:04
=== beuno is now known as beuno-lunch
ccheneyi have some swap used on a 8GB machine but it also has 6896MB free16:04
GizmoI am in the process of conducting various tests, but in my first test I found that the password entered during setup was cached in the swap partition, in plain text. I was seeing if this also occured with ver 9.04. This is why I am asking.16:06
ccheneythe kernel (aiui) just moves some stuff out if it is not used much to allow more space for cache/buffers16:06
ccheneyGizmo: oh16:06
GizmoI am doing a MSc project you see.16:07
GizmoAnd this is part of my chosen area of strudy16:07
GizmoIt may have been a ranom dump of data, and I am trying to see if I can repeat it16:07
ccheneyGizmo: well cjwatson is one of the best people to be talking to for that :)16:07
GizmoIt hasn't happended with 9.04, so I wondered if the dev's had realised the problem with 8.10 and patched it. I fthey had, I wanted to know where16:08
mvotseliot: nvidia-common bzr and arcihve are out of sync (FYI)16:08
tseliotmvo: :-/ let me check16:09
Gizmoccheney: cjwatson yes, I have repeated the test with 8.10 again, using a diff username and password. It's definately cached to swap with a machine using 1Gb. Might not with higher RAM levels.16:10
tseliotmvo: my bad, the last commit was rejected. I'll remove it16:11
GizmoI was starting to panic that the 5 pages I've written on the subject might have been wrong, but thankfully not. If it's reliably dumping this data, but isn't with 9.04, there must have been a code page somewhere16:11
Gizmocode change somewhere, rather16:11
joaopintoGizmo, if something was changed it is related to the installer swap configuration, linux kernel virtual memory management, it was not related to the installer/security per si16:12
liwGizmo, not necessarily; it might just be that under 8.10 it happened to always do it and random changes in 9.04 makes the password not be swapped out; but hopefully someone's realized that locking the password into memory is a good thing, you could grep the sources for that16:12
Gizmojoaopinto: OK - so would you be able to tell me where I would find the code for the installwer swap config? liw yes - good idea16:13
joaopintoGizmo, erm, better go the way around look for the password config code16:13
Gizmoliw: how would one grep the sources?16:14
Gizmoforgive me - I am not a developer :-(16:14
mvotseliot: i have nvidia-common rev17 from 2009-07-30 here16:14
joaopintoif there is nothing mandating that the entire process should always be on physical RAM, it can randomly get swapped16:14
mvotseliot: that is what I get with debcheckout (that looks at the vcs-bzr header)16:14
cjwatsonGizmo: I think you are attempting to study something essentially random16:14
tseliotmvo: actually, now that I look at the diff, revision 17 should be ok16:15
cjwatsonGizmo: I don't know of any relevant code changes16:15
tseliotmvo: but it's not here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/karmic/nvidia-common/karmic16:15
Gizmocjwatson: you could well be right, but I have created 3 virtual machines, each with different usernames and passwords. When I examined each one afterwards (of the 8.10 distribution) all of the 3 passwords were cached. Same tests done with 9.04 showed no passwords. So I take your point that in theory it would be random, but my tests suggest otherwise.16:16
cjwatsonGizmo: the password utilities don't call mlock, which is what I would expect to see if passwords were being locked out of swap16:16
joaopintoGizmo, you are reproducing the conditions on your tests, that is not random :)16:17
tseliotmvo: can you put revision 17 in your upload too?16:17
GizmoI think the best way for me to document this one way or another is to work out which part of the installer is responsbile for the collection of the password (Step 5 of the installation) and which part does anything with the swap. Maybe it does a cleanup or something at the end?16:18
cjwatsonGizmo: of course, the passwords go between several different processes before ending up in the password file16:18
mptmvo, I have a couple of questions about packaging relationships if now's an okay time (perhaps it isn't?)16:18
cjwatsonGizmo: and I'm certain that not all of those lock it out of swpa16:18
Gizmocjwatson: I quite agree, but I'm not suggesting it's deliberately stored and read back from swap. The PW is entered by the user, put into RAM, and then written to the /etc/passwd & shadow files having being encoded etc, but that is obviously once the filesystem has been built, whicvh at the time the PW is requested, it hasn't been.16:20
cjwatsonit's entered into the frontend (ubiquity in the desktop CD, cdebconf in the alternate/server CD); in the desktop CD case, ubiquity passes it to debconf; that gets returned to user-setup, which passes it through the shell a couple of times; and user-setup passes it to chpasswd16:20
joaopintoGizmo, anyway, you mentioned a problem, and the possibility of it being fixed, have you reported it ?16:20
mvotseliot: the last revision i have in bzr is 0.2.12 the last in the archive is 0.2.1516:20
cjwatsonthere are several places there where it'll be in RAM temporarily16:20
Gizmocjwatson: excellent - that's what I was after16:20
cjwatsonI don't believe any of those saw significant changes in 9.04, and certainly not all of them16:21
mvompt: not a good time, but ask anyway, if you don't mind delays in answering16:21
cjwatsonso I'm not disputing that you see it in swap - what I'm saying is that the fact that it *isn't* in swap in 9.04 is essentially random, even if the variables controlling that are always more or less the same in *your* tests16:21
Gizmojoaopinto: no, I haven't. I am a forensic practitioner so my study is to work out potential weaknesses.16:21
cjwatsonrandom in the sense that there's nothing in the installer to prevent it16:22
cjwatsonI would certainly accept a bug report on this16:22
mvotseliot: I wonder if we could move it to something like ~ubuntu-core-dev or  ~ubuntu-desktop from the current ~tseliot location ? not important though16:22
cjwatsonalthough I would also argue that people who are concerned about attackers having direct access to their swap partition should be using encrypted swap16:22
tseliotmvo: I'm not a core-dev or a motu yet16:22
mvotseliot: aha, ok16:23
Gizmocjwatson: ha - it's funny you mention that. My MSc study is, in fact, relating to eCryptFS, introduced in 8.10.16:23
cjwatson(only root, or other physical access, can get direct access to swap, and those people can also grab the shadow password file and crack it at their leisure)16:23
cjwatsonecryptfs isn't encrypted swap16:23
cjwatsonin 9.10, however, we take more care here16:23
Gizmocjwatson: No, but it can be encrypted with it16:23
cjwatsonif encryption is enabled, 9.10 zeroes swap at the end of installation16:23
Gizmoyes, buit it is not enabled by default...yet16:24
cjwatsonthere are many other vulnerabilities open to an attacker with this level of access when the disk isn't encrypted16:24
cjwatsonzeroing in on a particular one of them isn't necessarily the best answer :)16:24
mvoRiddell: I saw some "widget-plugins/kde4.py" releated errors in u-m (like bug #459471)16:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 459471 in update-manager "[Karmic] update-manager-kde: not handled exception in KDE frontend" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45947116:25
Gizmocjwatson: thanks. This is just one of 15 areas I am looking at, unfortunately. My project is not just about the swap.  Are you one of the main Ubuntu dev's?16:25
mvoRiddell: is there any news on what is causing this?16:25
joaopintothe login password is probably not the most valuable asset if you can read the entire disk :P16:25
cjwatsonGizmo: yes16:25
Gizmojoaopinto: quite true, but if you want to crack encryption, it might be!!16:25
tseliotmvo: maybe it's easier if I put the code from karmic in my branch (after cleaning up my branch)16:26
Gizmocjwatson: do you know Dustin Kirkland?16:26
cjwatsonI would be inclined to say that there is not very much valuable data on a system that was only just installed!16:26
cjwatsonand if it wasn't only just installed, whatever part of swap that holds the password is very likely to have been overwritten16:26
Gizmocjwatson: as a generalisation, I quite agree.16:26
cjwatsonso this is unlikely to be a realistic attack on a system containing real valuable data16:27
mvotseliot: I can just upload as a normal package and let you sort it out. its only affecting hardy->karmic so it is just a minority16:27
cjwatsonyes, I know Dustin16:27
joaopintocjwatson, there is a lot of people doing fresh installs with a /home partition :P16:27
Riddellmvo: pyqt got a late move to python-support, that file is now in /usr/share/pyshared/PyQt4/uic/widget-plugins/kde4.py16:27
tseliotmvo: ok, thanks. I'll clean my branch tomorrow and pull from karmic after your upload16:27
cjwatsonjoaopinto: which won't be encrypted, then16:27
mvotseliot: thanks, I will uplaod when karmic-proposed opens, not sure when that will happen. I will let you know16:28
cjwatsonor at least if it is, ubiquity already probably won't cope very well16:28
tseliotmvo: ok, there's no hurry16:28
mvoRiddell: urgh, that seems to be causing issues, maybe we need to add a symlink or something16:28
mvoRiddell: I will try to figure out if its a general problem or just a corner case16:29
Gizmocjwatson: the thoery and liklihoods of things are not what I am trying to document. I am documenting potential areas of interest and possibilities. As a forensic finding, the fact that a setup sudo password may pontetially be recovered from the swap is a good thing. Yes, it may have been overwritten, but it may not. It's all about possibilities.16:29
GizmoObviously from a security point of view for Ubuntu, it's not so good.16:30
GizmoBut then, as you say, it's not likely to be recovered anyway16:30
Gizmoso it's not that much of a bad thing16:30
Riddellmvo: /usr/share/python-qt4/widget-plugins/kde4.py is pointing at the wrong place16:30
slangasekmvo: karmic-proposed is already open for business16:31
mvoRiddell: on jaunty? karmic? during the upgrade?16:31
Riddellmvo: but I'm not sure why that file would be used rather than the /var/lib/python-support/python2.6/PyQt4/uic/widget-plugins/kde4.py one which is actually in the python library path16:31
mvoslangasek: sweet, many thanks16:31
Riddellmvo: in karmic16:31
cjwatsonGizmo: right, from a development point of view, it's important to prioritise likely problems over unlikely ones16:32
cjwatsonGizmo: of course you're free to document whatever you like :)16:32
mvoRiddell: I don't know, maybe its because the jaunty version was loaded when hte upgrade starts and its still having a memory refrecne to it16:32
Riddellyes maybe16:32
Gizmocjwatson: absolutely. I doubt this is really worth the investment of time for Canonical. It's an interesting find though, do you not think?16:33
mvoRiddell: I will try to reproduce and see if I can come up with a workaround16:33
Gizmocjwatson: The answer you gave me above regarding the cycle of the password through the various steps, I'd like to use in my work. I can't quote IRC channels as an academic resource but I can quote individual developers. Would you object to being named? If so, do you know where I would find that information in a published sense? Where did you get it from, for example?16:35
Riddellmvo: it sounds like it's only in the cases where upgrade is already failing?  I should do a SRU for kdebindings to fix the symlink and that would solve it once it got in?16:35
mvoRiddell: I'm not sure, it maybe when there is a conffile prompt or something else that need to pop up a dialog16:36
mvoRiddell: at least that is my theory right now16:36
Riddellmvo: even so a SRU should sort it surely16:37
mvoRiddell: yeah, looks much like being caused by a conffile prompt16:37
mvoRiddell: yes, if you have that in the works I will just dup the bugs16:37
zookoFolks, the problem with binutils assembling incorrectly is being looked at by Wei Dai: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/46130316:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 461303 in binutils "generates-bad-code regression" [Undecided,New]16:38
mvoRiddell: do you have a master bug for this?16:38
Riddellmvo: no, I think you can just move this one to kdebindings if you want16:38
mvoRiddell: thanks, done that and targeted to karmic-updates16:40
cjwatsonGizmo: I got it from having written a fairly substantial amount of the code and knowing it well :)16:40
cjwatsonGizmo: feel free to quote me16:40
Gizmocjwatson: ha - I see!!16:41
Gizmocjwatson: thats impressive then16:41
cjwatsonGizmo: you can 'apt-get source PACKAGE' with any of the things I quoted instead of PACKAGE (except that chpasswd is in shadow)16:41
cjwatsonand read the code16:41
GizmoWould you tell me your real name? Mine is Ted Smith, if that helps16:41
cjwatsonthough it's a pretty big codebase16:41
cjwatsonGizmo: type '/whois cjwatson' at your IRC client16:41
cjwatsonGizmo: yes, I think it is interesting, and we may want to consider just always zeroing swap at the end of installation16:42
GizmoCan I ask what your offocial title is in Canonical?16:42
cjwatsonsince there's a lot of code in the installer that is not especially security-conscious16:42
cjwatsonGizmo: you can't reliably assume that all Ubuntu developers work for Canonical, although as it happens I do16:43
* slangasek patches ubiquity to call mlockall()16:43
cjwatsonTechnical Lead, Ubuntu Foundations Team16:43
Gizmocjwatson: Thanks very much. Will I get my name in lights anywhere if you implement this...ha?16:43
cjwatsonslangasek: hah. (does fork/execve preserve mlockall)16:43
cjwatsonGizmo: if you file a bug, you might get a changelog mention :)16:43
cjwatsonslangasek: ah, fork documents that it doesn't16:44
slangasekright :)16:44
cjwatsonand indeed so does execve16:44
Gizmocjwatson: maybe I'll do that then. Is there a proper place to do that (obviously there is, I am being lazy and asking you what it is!!)?16:44
cjwatsonGizmo: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs; the relevant package name (to start with, anyway) is ubiquity16:45
spaetzGizmo, bugs.ubuntu.com16:45
joaopintoGizmo, you maybe interested in http://philosecurity.org/research/cleartext-passwords-linux16:45
joaopintoyou are just addressing a particular case of plaintext passwords lifecycle16:46
mathiazcjwatson: I'm trying to find a workaround for bug 45890417:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 458904 in eucalyptus "Adding nodes in several waves after launching VMs is not possible" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45890417:17
mathiazcjwatson: is there a reason why euca_find_cluster is using avahi_address_snprint?17:18
mathiazcjwatson: it seems that in some cases avahi_address_snprint doesn't return the correct IP address17:18
mathiazcjwatson: we've already run into a similar bug when the IP was and we've special-cased it17:19
mathiazcjwatson: it seems that the bug comes back in other configurations17:19
mathiazcjwatson: so I was wondering why we should not always use the name and no the human_address?17:20
mathiazcjwatson: see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus/+bug/458904/comments/417:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 458904 in eucalyptus "Adding nodes in several waves after launching VMs is not possible" [High,Confirmed]17:20
=== beuno-lunch is now known as beuno
cjwatsonmathiaz: I have no idea, I think I was using what appeared to make sense at the time :)17:46
MacSlowehm... what happened to the packages name xserver-xorg-video-ati?17:47
cjwatsonMacSlow: nothing17:47
MacSlowI can't reassign a bug to that package anymore17:48
MacSlowcjwatson, some lp issue?17:48
cjwatsonI have no idea17:48
cjwatsonit's a valid package name17:48
MacSlowcjwatson, ehm... hm.. *shrug*17:49
ChipzzGizmo: btw, there's also (I think) #ubuntu-installer17:57
Chipzzwhich is about ubiquity/debian-installer17:57
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|capoeira
=== robbiew is now known as robbiew-afk
LaserJockare the Ubuntu release notes kept on the wiki after release?18:36
slangasek"kept" in the sense that they're available there for further editing, not that the wiki is the official location18:37
LaserJockslangasek: the official location is on ubuntu.com?18:38
LaserJockI assume anyway18:38
slangasekyes, e.g. http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/91018:38
primes2hcr3: Hello, I just upgraded checkbox to 0.8.5 version but translation is still missing some strings18:40
primes2hcr3: it's not updated18:41
primes2hcr3: any ideas?18:42
cr3primes2h: I downloaded the strings when we last discussed, but I actually received confirmation that launchpad accepted my pot file yesterday18:45
cr3primes2h: I'm not sufficiently familiar with launchpad translations to understand exactly what might be the problem18:45
primes2hcr3: That strings are ok, I just checked them18:45
primes2hcr3: did you put them in your package?18:46
cr3primes2h: cool, so what strings aren't translated then?18:46
cr3primes2h: yeah, I'll pull up the commit I did with the tarball launchpad sent me... one moment18:47
primes2hcr3: I mean the tar.gz I showed you is ok.18:47
cr3primes2h: this is what I received by email: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~checkbox-dev/checkbox/trunk/revision/68218:48
primes2hcr3: but translations appearing using the package are the same as they were18:48
primes2htwo days ago18:48
cr3err, that's the commit I did based on the tarball I received by email18:48
cr3primes2h: hm, that's very strange indeed18:48
primes2hcr3: those po are ok18:49
primes2hcr3:  but the application still shows them not correctly18:50
cr3primes2h: it seems that lp:ubuntu/karmic/checkbox has not been updated, so I don't know from what sources the package was built18:51
primes2hcr3: What is strange is that some new strings are translated, other are not.18:52
primes2hcr3: it seems that they have been taken in the middle of translations18:52
primes2hcr3: I mean18:52
primes2hcr3: there is a string (a new one)  that I translated and then I updated one hour after.18:53
primes2hcr3: it shows the first translation18:53
primes2hbut it was still Thursday.. 17.00 in the afternoon18:54
mathiazcr3: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/checkbox/18:54
mathiazcr3: ^^ this has the updated source package18:54
mathiazcr3: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/34423527/checkbox_0.8.4_0.8.5.diff.gz18:55
mathiazcr3: ^^ diff between 0.8.4 and 0.8.5 - new translations are there18:55
cr3primes2h: can you have a look at the above diff and let me know if those po changes look alright?18:55
primes2hcr3: The italian one is OK.18:57
cr3primes2h: is the italian translation in the above diff different from the one in the package?18:57
hyperairYokoZar: i've more or less nailed it down, filed the bugs, and attached the patches =)19:00
primes2hcr3: no, it's the same19:00
=== asac_ is now known as asac
primes2hcr3: I just downloaded the source package19:00
primes2hcr3: now I must go. I'll be here in 1 and a half hour19:03
slangasekLaserJock: ETA of 1h30 for the respin of edubuntu DVDs to finish19:24
slangasekLaserJock: will be 20091027.1 when available19:24
LaserJockslangasek: k, thanks19:24
hdonhi all. i have some funny iconv behavior.. i think. can someone take a look at these couple of lines? http://pastebin.mozilla.org/67941519:32
slangasekcody-somerville: will http://xubuntu.org/news/9.10-release be the url I want to link from the announcement?19:32
slangaseksuperm1: is http://mythbuntu.org/9.10/release going to be the right url to link from the announcement?19:33
slangasekTheMuso, luisbg: will there be a release announcement page for Ubuntu Studio that you want me to link to, or will you use the download page like before?19:34
ionhdon: Looks right.19:34
hdonion: well, isn't UTF-8 "C3 89" the character e-accent-acute? in ISO-8859-1 that should be C919:35
luisbgslangasek, we can use the download page as before... the release notes are linked from there19:35
luisbgslangasek, or we can send you the link to the release notes (once we publish them)19:35
luisbgwhat do you think is best?19:35
cody-somervilleslangasek, what is the url the ubuntu website is using?19:36
ionhdon: You’re saying “please convert this ISO-8859-1 string to UTF-8” and passing it C3 89.19:36
slangasekcody-somerville: I don't think there's an equivalent, really19:36
hdonion: no, that's backwards19:36
superm1slangasek, Yes19:36
slangasekcody-somerville: this is the draft content for the email: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/ReleaseAnnouncement19:36
hdonion: thanks19:37
cody-somervilleslangasek, Okay, the url you mentioned will be used.19:37
slangasekluisbg: would need to have the url available to me beforehand, timing is a little tight at release time :)  I can just use the download page, then19:37
slangaseksuperm1: ok, thanks for confirming19:37
slangasekcody-somerville: ack, thanks19:37
luisbgslangasek, we use the wiki so I can have the URL decided before writing the document19:40
luisbgslangasek, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/9.10release_notes19:40
luisbglike that :)19:41
slangasekluisbg: ok - fwiw, I'm not sure how available the wiki is going to be during the release, but I can point there if you wish19:42
luisbgslangasek, how available the wiki si going to be during release?19:43
luisbgwhat do you mean?19:43
slangasekluisbg: wiki.ubuntu.com tends to get crushed by the traffic around release time19:44
luisbgahhh ok19:44
luisbgslangasek, thats fine, I will get the document ready then sooner possible19:45
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
jdstrandttx: hey. I noticed people are getting rather vocal in bug #42649720:22
ubottuLaunchpad bug 426497 in qemu-kvm "kqemu mode not compiled for karmic" [Wishlist,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42649720:22
jdstrandttx: I don't know if it is documented anywhere, but it perhaps should be that kqemu support is no more. just my two cents20:23
jdstrandttx: though, I must say I am saddened that it is gone myself20:23
jdstrand(I know why though)20:23
primes2hcr3: I think I've worked out what happened20:23
ttxjdstrand: let me look20:24
primes2hcr3: langpacks should have priority over package pos20:24
primes2hcr3: but20:24
primes2hcr3: for a strange reason translations were taken early during the day (22)20:27
primes2hcr3: They are usually taken on the evening, I don't know why in this cycle they have been worked out earlier20:30
cr3primes2h: thanks for sharing that, I still have a lot to learn about the release process20:32
ttxjdstrand: makes sense to document that...20:35
ttxkirkland: ^?20:35
primes2hcr3: no problem. ;) I'm only a bit angry about that out-of-the-common thing.20:41
LaserJockI need a KDE karmic user20:42
dtchenLaserJock: ...for?20:44
LaserJockdtchen: I'd like to know what comes up when you search for Edubuntu in Kpackagekit (or whatever GUI package installer is used)20:44
highvoltagewhat is the kubuntu package tool thingy these days? I think last when I used Kubuntu it was Kynaptic20:46
dtchenLaserJock: sec, vbox is taking a bit20:53
dtchenLaserJock: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~dtchen/20091027_vbox_kubuntu-desktop-i386-kpackagekit-edubuntu-search.png20:56
LaserJockdtchen: perfect!20:58
highvoltageheh, I guess I can stop my kpackagekit installation then20:59
TheMusoslangasek: Re studio, I don;t know what the others want, I am not involved with putting pages together etc, so unless you've received a different answer, I'd just say go the download page... If its been updated. :)21:21
=== rbelem__ is now known as rbelem
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
ubottuLaunchpad bug 456261 in network-manager "NetworkManager won't allow user to edit settings of Mobile Broadband connection" [Undecided,New]22:14
dupondjesurely a to-fix-for-final :P22:14
=== MacSlow|capoeira is now known as MacSlow
TheMusodupondje: Likely an SRU at this point.22:16
joaopintoor maybe not22:16
joaopintoit doesn't look reproducible22:16
dupondjecan reproduce it every time :s22:17
dupondjejust make a Mobile Connection in NetworkManager22:17
dupondjeenable 'availible to all users'22:17
dupondjeclose Network Manager22:17
dupondjestart it again22:17
dupondjetry to edit the connection22:17
dupondjeit asks for password, you enter it, you get error22:18
dupondjeand NetworkManager crashes22:18
dupondjejoaopinto: you can reproduce ? .)22:25
msaraujoif I install libsvn-dev, how can I include the svn headers?22:34
joaopintomsaraujo, read the topic :)22:34
msaraujojoaopinto: okay.22:35
jdstrandslangasek: fyi-- bug #46225822:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 462258 in mdadm "raid1 won't boot in degraded mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/46225822:35
jdstrandslangasek: I can't do any more triage atm22:35
jdstrandwill try back later22:35
msaraujojoaopinto: have a nice day22:36
=== mnepton is now known as mneptok
William-Ubuntu can any body tell me the different between ubuntu 9.10dvd and cd?22:41
TheMusoWilliam-Ubuntu: The DVD has both the live image, and the packages in individual debs.22:41
maxbIs the DVD basically the live CD plus the alternate CD plus lots of .debs ?22:50
TheMusomaxb: I believe so.22:53
=== dupondje- is now known as dupondje
ebroderThe security team's PPA is restricted access, right? How do they do that?23:29
ebroder(on an apt level, not a Soyuz level)23:29
wgrantebroder: HTTP authentication, with the credentials embedded in the URL in sources.list.23:52

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