[20:39] <huayra> hei AliTabuger7
[20:39] <huayra> and hei everyone else
[20:39] <huayra> AliTabuger7 and I are the "core" of the SpreadUbuntu project team
[20:39] <huayra> and now we have revamped the site's homepage once again
[20:40] <huayra> and want to make a How-To on the site
[20:40] <AliTabuger7> hey huayra
[20:40] <huayra> could any of you please have a look at the site and give us ideas?
[20:40] <AliTabuger7> who else is here?
[20:40] <huayra> I am to blog (Planet Ubuntu++) it tonight and use screenshots and stuff
[20:40] <huayra> AliTabuger7: I don't know, but it's ok to just start the session like that
[20:41] <huayra> The site is here: http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/
[20:41] <huayra> thanks in advance :)
[20:41] <huayra> ok AliTabuger7
[20:41] <huayra> our users need to know that we offer several things:
[20:42] <huayra> 1. A site to share marketing material
[20:42] <huayra> 2. Campaigns to promote guerrilla marketing
[20:42] <huayra> 3. Localized versions of the site
[20:42] <huayra> 4. Material classified in different categories
[20:42] <huayra> 5. Localized material
[20:42] <huayra> 6. Easy access through Launchpad integration
[20:43] <huayra> anything else AliTabuger7?
[20:44] <AliTabuger7> how to make and modify materials
[20:45] <huayra> yeah, I thought that was part of 1
[20:45] <huayra> but maybe we should clarify that you can get, make, translate and give/share material
[21:02] <huayra> AliTabuger7: showing all those steps should suffice, right?
[21:20] <Takyoji> How many others are actually remotely involved in SpreadUbuntu by the way? :P
[21:21] <Takyoji> Because honestly people, why do you visit this channel (not that I'm implying you not to) if nobody ever speaks up to help others that are actually trying to be proactive and cause a change in the Ubuntu community of resolving the issue with Ubuntu's lack of publicity?
[21:22] <huayra> AliTabuger7: that answer can be answered by checking the logs of meetings, uploaded materials (over 1GB) or maybe by checking code commits
[21:22] <Takyoji> Idling this channel isn't helping.
[21:23] <huayra> Takyoji: it will, eventually
[21:23] <Takyoji> People could start having discussion, present their work and ask for critique or ideas, or ask about ways to promote it to a person, or whatever.
[21:23] <huayra> I believe that it is worth to document our thinking in the open
[21:23] <Takyoji> I've been on this channel for months now and I feel like one of the very few that speak up
[21:23] <huayra> this is a project of the marketing team
[21:24] <huayra> this was agreed upon for a long time ago in this channel
[21:24] <huayra> I know. You are. I remember talking to you earlier
[21:24] <AliTabuger7> Most of the "remote involvement" seems to be people with artistic talents that run a blog
[21:25] <AliTabuger7> Although, pretty much everyone has a blog, so I guess that's not too surprising.
[21:26] <huayra> lots of people are excited about ubuntu marketing but people do not know what to do
[21:26] <huayra> I have been following the fedora marketing team for motnhs now
[21:26] <huayra> and the gnome team too
[21:27] <huayra> those people know what to do, how to organize
[21:27] <huayra> our marketing community is way too loosely defined to be effective
[21:27] <huayra> I hope the meeting next week makes it a bit more productive
[21:27] <huayra> last time it ended up in a core-team that has not done anything I have seen
[21:27] <huayra> either as though process or action
[21:28] <huayra> *thought
[21:28] <huayra> just like I predicted a year ago
[21:28] <huayra> so now AliTabuger7 and I have been working with this project. Because we put our work where our mouth is
[21:29] <huayra> and I am glad we have something real to show... but I wish our team was more organized and productive as a whole
[21:29] <huayra> anyway.. I better go do something productive instead of idling here ;)
[21:39] <MadsRH> Hi. Does anyone know if Canonical has any Ubuntu promotion banners?
[21:40] <MadsRH> Or who I should talk to?
[21:42] <Flannel> MadsRH: Your LoCo team would be your best first point of contact
[21:45] <MadsRH> Flannel -> Thanks, but I'm asking on behalf of the Danish team regarding the 9.10 release party
[21:48] <huayra> MadsRH: I know of some banners, but those are for specific things (training)
[21:49] <huayra> You surely know about the countdown banners
[21:49] <Takyoji> I suppose you'd have to get such custom printed locally.
[21:49] <Flannel> MadsRH: You need the banners themselves? or just the artwork?
[21:49] <Takyoji> And I don't think anyone has something made as for a big banner
[21:49] <Takyoji> or at least posted such
[21:49] <Takyoji> I can check
[21:50] <Takyoji> There's mostly promotional posters rather than banners to my awareness
[21:50] <Takyoji> or are you saying like a banner for a website or something?
[21:50] <huayra> there's Takyoji: http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/en/material/poster/highway-freedom
[21:52] <MadsRH> Oh, I'm talking about huge real life banners ;-) http://www.discountprint.dk/udstillingssystemer_display.26.40.0.html
[21:52] <Takyoji> That's what I was thinking
[21:53] <Flannel> MadsRH: I've got artwork for one, its rather spartan, but that's generally what you want anyway.
[21:54] <MadsRH> Flannel -> Cool, is there a preivew?
[21:56] <Flannel> MadsRH: Yeah, let me find a photo
[21:57] <Flannel> MadsRH: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=40045456&id=1512931&l=fec53bc030
[21:58] <MadsRH> Flannel -> that _is_ basic, but just perfect :-)
[21:58] <MadsRH> Flannel -> .SVG source?
[21:58] <Flannel> MadsRH: Let me wrangle up the svg.  I haven't put it up on SU (along with a bunch of other things) because I haven't had a chance to sit down and figure out licensing.
[21:59] <huayra> Flannel: maybe we can figure it out now?
[21:59] <huayra> :)
[21:59] <huayra> I have figured out that we just might as well let people put things up with the license they want
[21:59] <huayra> or double license it with what you wnat and CC-BY-SA
[21:59] <Flannel> huayra: yeah, I just don't know what I want
[21:59] <huayra> AliTabuger7: any thoughts?
[22:00] <huayra> ok, just take your time Flannel :) And load up the material when you feel you have landed
[22:00] <Flannel> huayra: I was thinking that "categories" should probably be "tags" instead.  People can tag stuff with whatever, and that'll make it easier for things that don't fit neatly into stuff.
[22:00] <AliTabuger7> website bannars?
[22:00] <huayra> true.. and make a tag cloud
[22:00] <huayra> AliTabuger7: licenses
[22:00] <Flannel> huayra: I have no idea if the drupal stuff you're using would support that though
[22:00] <AliTabuger7> banners*
[22:01] <huayra> Flannel: it would. Drupal and tags are very good friends
[22:01] <Flannel> huayra: but that way I can tag something "flier" "poster" etc etc instead of having to pick one of the four categories (you'll also get more fidelity out of unknown)
[22:01] <huayra> am I worn AliTabuger7?
[22:01] <AliTabuger7> http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/en/material/site-button/random-ubuntu-advocacy-banner
[22:01] <huayra> Flannel: true
[22:01] <huayra> AliTabuger7: we nee dot put that into a bug. I will fill one right now
[22:02] <huayra> Flannel: would you like to havce the double license or the license you want?
[22:02] <AliTabuger7> You can put whatever license you want on it, but the only one we have to choose from is CC-BY-SA, or specifying your own, where you could do a double license
[22:02] <huayra> Flannel: would you like to have the double license or the license you want only?
[22:03] <huayra> you could always go WTFPL ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTFPL
[22:04] <huayra> I am filling those bugs
[22:05] <Flannel> huayra: yeah, that's the side I'm leaning towards.  I really dislike the fact that there's not a CC-SA license
[22:07] <huayra> Flannel: Honestly I want to empower users of SpreadUbuntu. CC-BY-SA seems like the most viable choice, but adding the option of double licensing seems reasonable
[22:08] <huayra> anything else will be complicated
[22:08] <Flannel> huayra: Yeah, I just don't like the forced attribution.  Especially without a resolution to that attribution question on -contacts a few weeks ago
[22:08] <huayra> I remember that thread
[22:08] <huayra> It's truly a difficult issue
[22:09] <huayra> The other day when taking the bus I realized that public Domain really is the only possible solution... but I havenæt had a change to discuss that with anyone
[22:10] <huayra> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain
[22:10] <Flannel> Well, I don't know why there's no CC-SA license.
[22:11] <huayra> AliTabuger7: any thoughts on Public Domain licensing?
[22:12] <Flannel> huayra: Well, allowing a freeform-ish licensing means you don't have to worry about changing the code when it changes.
[22:13] <Flannel> but, there are arguments against public domain... I just don't recall them.  I apparently have a bad licensing memory.
[22:13] <huayra> I have one
[22:14] <huayra> I don't think you can apply it to material that uses trademarks (i.e. Ubuntu)
[22:14] <huayra> hehe
[22:14] <huayra> that's why I landed on CC-BY-SA
[22:14] <huayra> I would like to discuss that with people that know a fair bit about this
[22:14] <huayra> I think I'm going to blog on this now
[22:15] <Flannel> Yeah, there's something where if you do public domain something, it ends up hurting you down the road in ways you never thought or something.
[22:16] <Takyoji> such as in what regards?
[22:16] <Flannel> Oh, you *can* license CC-SA without the BY
[22:17] <Takyoji> Haven't heard of that
[22:17] <Flannel> Takyoji: I don't remember.  If I did, I'd be less confused.
[22:17] <Flannel> Takyoji: quoth wikipedia: Of the eleven valid licenses, the five that lack the "by" clause have been phased out because 98% of licensors requested Attribution, though they do remain available for reference on the website.
[22:17] <Takyoji> If someone took your work, and lawsuit trolled you or something, perhaps.
[22:17] <Takyoji> Ooo, didn't know of that
[22:18] <Takyoji> Because I don't mind if people don't cite me most of the time
[22:19] <Flannel> Takyoji: I think it's that in some countries you can't legally release something into the public domain?  have to wait for it to time-out?
[22:20] <Takyoji> You would use Creative Commons Zero license
[22:20] <Takyoji> That license defines what public domain means in countries where "public domain" isn't defined
[22:30] <Takyoji> http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/
[22:30] <Takyoji> I believe Creative Commons Zero was for resolving that issue
[22:31] <Takyoji> Though I'm not it deep aptitude of Creative Commons Zero specifically
[22:35] <Flannel> CC-BY-SA requires you to include the license itself (or a URI to the license) to works you perform publically.
[22:35] <Flannel> How does that even work?
[22:36] <Flannel> "I'm going to sing a song, but first, let me rattle off this URL for you!"
[22:36] <Takyoji> heheheheh
[22:37] <Takyoji> Seen the documentary "Rip! A Remix Manifesto", "Good Copy, Bad Copy", or "Steal This Film" at all?
[22:56] <AliTabuger7> I think you cannot do a public domain license for ubuntu materials because the ubuntu logo itself is not public domain
[23:03] <Takyoji> You have to cite the logo and colors as being trademarked, but everything else would be possible to have as public domain
[23:03] <Takyoji> Actually, Creative Commons Zero implies that trademarks can still apply
[23:03] <Takyoji> so that would resolve that issue I believe
[23:05] <Takyoji> Section 4: http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/legalcode
[23:05] <Takyoji> Although I could be interpreting it wrong
[23:06] <Takyoji> and it would be just the same case as if you used CC-BY-SA or any derivatives of that license.
[23:07] <Takyoji> So basically implying the ownership of the logo on the material, along with that it's not sponsored or endorsed by Canonical, would be appropriate to pretty much have any license.
[23:13] <huayra> interesting discussion... Maybe going CC-SA should solve some of the issue
[23:13] <huayra> *issues
[23:14] <Takyoji> I was just using CC-BY-SA as an example, rather than in specific
[23:14] <Flannel> huayra: apparently CC-SA is a "dead" liencese, due to lack of interest.
[23:15] <Takyoji> Doesn't mean it can't be used though.
[23:15] <Takyoji> CC0 is supposedly barely used
[23:15] <huayra> true, phased out but still can be used+
[23:15] <Flannel> Certainly not.
[23:15] <huayra> ok
[23:16] <Flannel> Another option would be to strip out Ubuntu logos from everywhere, and license the item CC0 and then have an easy way to reintegrate the logo!
[23:17] <Flannel> (no, I'm not really serious... although...)
[23:20] <Takyoji> because otherwise there's no license you could apply to work that contains the Ubuntu logo
[23:21] <Takyoji> http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
[23:25] <Takyoji> To simply say: is the Ubuntu logo under a Creative Commons license? No. Thus why is it possible to publish work under any other license than the trademark policy? This is what I'm trying to imply
[23:26] <Takyoji> hence why I refute the thought of "we are unable to make it public domain because the ubuntu logos are not public domain"
[23:26] <Flannel> Takyoji: No, I don't believe it's under a CC license
[23:27] <Flannel> Its use is approved for community use provided the logo usage guidelines (don't mangle it) are met.
[23:27] <Flannel> and it's not commercial
[23:28] <Takyoji> Sidenote: apparently when you have screenshots of open source applications, the screenshot supposedly have to have the same license as the open source application (as it's considered a 'remix' of it, if I remember reading correctly)