[09:53] <amachu> hi
[09:54] <happyaron> amachu: hi
[09:54] <amachu> persia: elky: lifeless: Hello
[09:54] <happyaron> freeflying: ping
[09:55] <amachu> happyaron: hi
[09:55] <persia> Hey amachu
[09:56] <amachu> persia: hello!
[09:56] <amachu> persia: CC results have come?
[09:56] <persia> amachu, Which results?
[09:56] <lifeless> hi
[09:57] <freeflying> happyaron: hi
[09:57] <amachu> lifeless: Hello
[09:57] <amachu> and TheMuso: hi
[09:58] <amachu> elky: are you there?
[10:00] <TheMuso> Hey amachu.
[10:00] <amachu> persia: TheMuso: lifeless: we four are here..
[10:01] <amachu> wondering what elky is now!
[10:01] <amachu> shall we start then..
[10:01] <persia> we're quorate, so we could.
[10:01] <amachu> let elky join, as she awakes ;-)
[10:01] <amachu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
[10:02] <amachu> Indus: Hi
[10:02] <TheMuso> The first candidate has a incorrect wiki page link.
[10:03] <amachu> sorry, indus & ddorda appear not to be here
[10:03] <amachu> happyaron: Hi
[10:03] <happyaron> amachu: hi
[10:03] <happyaron> I'm here, :)
[10:03] <lifeless> amachu: happyaron noted to me that the wiki page didn't have an accurate schedule a few days back
[10:04] <amachu> lifeless: yes. I was lazy enough to change it today only..
[10:04] <lifeless> amachu: if I can suggest, change it at the end of a meeting ;)
[10:04] <persia> I suspect that's why we have so few participants.
[10:04] <amachu> will do it immediately here after, with a stamp that we meet second & fourth tuesday
[10:05] <amachu> persia: can be a reason..
[10:05] <amachu> happyaron: Please go ahead, explaining your contributions to Ubuntu
[10:05] <happyaron> ok
[10:06] <happyaron> I have been an Ubuntu user and contributor since Feisty
[10:06] <happyaron> and my major contribution is in localization field
[10:07] <happyaron> I am now taking the lead of Ubuntu Simplified Chinese translators as well as Launchpad Simplified Chinese translators teams
[10:07] <happyaron> what's more, I've been part of Ubuntu Translations Coordinators now
[10:08] <persia> happyaron, In your wiki page, you say you're working towards providing a better environment for translators.  Could you expand on that?
[10:08] <happyaron> persia: yes
[10:09] <happyaron> This could be explained in two fields, my LoCo and the universe one
[10:09] <happyaron> for my LoCo, I am reorganizing zh_CN team, help on setting up a more organized team
[10:10] <happyaron> I have made it a circle of contributors who are willing to help, and help them know more about doing such work
[10:11] <happyaron> the organization will be expand to much more than a Launchpad team, who have the privilege to fix things for language pack
[10:11] <happyaron> I am working on make more and more people available for upstream work
[10:11] <happyaron> writing the new set of documentation is part of my work
[10:12] <happyaron> as you can see a list on my LoCo wiki http://wiki.ubuntu.org.cn/User:Happyaron
[10:12] <happyaron> (in Chinese)
[10:12] <happyaron> For the worldwide, I am working with other members of U-T-C team, and have just begun
[10:13] <happyaron> now I am focus on fonts and other user experience problems especially for CJK users
[10:13] <happyaron> who need special care due to the special character
[10:14] <amachu> happyaron: say about your packaging experience
[10:14] <happyaron> sure
[10:15] <happyaron> Now I am the maintainer of gmchess for Debian
[10:15] <happyaron> it is a Chinese chess game, or rather Xiangqi
[10:16] <happyaron> I work with Li Daobing, whose a Debian Developer, and he told me the resources to fix all kinds of issues
[10:16] <happyaron> freeflying helped me when I just get started and I should thank him, too.
[10:17] <happyaron> I am now preparing to pack ubuntu-tweak for Lucid
[10:17] <happyaron> this package is an excellent tool to tweak, which is written in python
[10:17] <amachu> happyaron: are there people here to support your membership?
[10:18] <happyaron> amachu: yes, dpm and freeflying is here
[10:18] <happyaron> lidaobing wasn't, :)
[10:18] <dpm> hi, yes, I'd like to support happyaron's application
[10:18] <amachu> dpm: freeflying: yours comments on happyaron
[10:18] <freeflying> amachu: yes, I support his application
[10:19] <dpm> he's been a very active member of the Ubuntu Translations Coordinators team, basically taking care that translations for all Ubuntu users are in good shape
[10:20] <dpm> he's quickly learned the procedures in the team, and at the same time has adapted to changes (the team is relativley new)
[10:20] <dpm> relatively
[10:20] <dpm> I meant
[10:20] <amachu> dpm: thank you
[10:20] <freeflying> amachu: I've witnessed nearlu all his contribution to FLOSS, back from the time he just started
[10:22] <amachu> persia: lifeless: TheMuso: shall we take voting now?
[10:22] <freeflying> amachu: he has great passion
[10:22] <amachu> freeflying: thank you
[10:22] <persia> I'm ready.
[10:22] <TheMuso> amachu: I think so.
[10:23] <amachu> I would give +1 considering contributions to translations, packaging supported by testimonials at the wiki as well as here..
[10:24] <TheMuso> +1 as well, great work.
[10:24] <persia> I'm very much in favour.  Lot's of good work, strong support.
[10:26] <amachu> and lifeless?
[10:26] <elky> oh. it's tuesday. whoops. here now
[10:26] <elky> looks good +1
[10:26] <lifeless> +1
[10:26] <amachu> that a surprise vote, all of a sudden :-D
[10:27] <happyaron> thank you all, :P
[10:27] <amachu> happyaron: War welcome
[10:27] <amachu> happyaron: Warm welcome
[10:27] <happyaron> amachu: thanks!
[10:27] <freeflying> happyaron: congrats
[10:27] <lifeless> amachu: sorry I've been missing meetings
[10:27] <happyaron> freeflying: :)
[10:27] <dpm> happyaron, congratulations!
[10:27] <lifeless> amachu: its an awkward time, middle of the evening, so I lose track.
[10:27] <happyaron> dpm: thanks for your support!
[10:27] <ziroday> happyaron: yay!
[10:27] <happyaron> ziroday: yeah!
[10:28] <persia> lifeless, Would later be better for you?  I thought we selected this time to not be so late that far east.
[10:28] <lifeless> persia: no, basically if I have time to relax after work its likely to end up with me relaxed :)
[10:29] <persia> heh.  Makes sense.
[10:29] <amachu> lifeless: thats ok. Lets see if could have two different times once Zheng joins..
[10:29] <persia> Regarding that, did we get a response from the CC?  I don't remember a clear one.
[10:29] <lifeless> +1
[10:29] <lifeless> IIRC
[10:30] <lifeless> with 2 year term I think
[10:30] <TheMuso> Do we not have another candidate?
[10:30] <lifeless> TheMuso: 2 awols, I thought
[10:31] <persia> So, what's outstanding to add freeflying to the board?
[10:31] <amachu> Following a mail from Daniel Holbach dated 07 Oct, there is consensus over it
[10:32] <amachu> persia: i will add him to launchpad team & mailing list, send a mail to CC and Ubuntu News Team
[10:33] <amachu> persia: hope that completes the job of inclusion
[10:34] <amachu> any comments?
[10:34] <persia> I don't think we can add to the team.  I think CC needs to do it (based on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-membership-board-asia-oceania/+members)
[10:37] <TheMuso> nothing from me
[10:38] <amachu> persia: Yes. I will make it the request..
[10:38] <persia> amachu, OK.  Sounds good to me then.
[10:39] <amachu> elky: lifeless: any thing else to discuss?
[10:39] <elky> nope
[10:40] <amachu> fine then..
[10:40] <amachu> thank you all for participating.
[10:41] <amachu> happyaron: Welcoming you again. Keep up the great work.
[10:42] <amachu> Our next meeting will be on 10 Nov 09, likely with Zheng on team :-)
[10:42] <happyaron> amachu: thanks, !
[13:00] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[13:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 07:59. The chair is NCommander.
[13:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[13:01] <NCommander> morning plars GrueMaster StevenK lool davidm paulliu dyfet ogra JamieBennett1
[13:01] <dyfet> need coffee
[13:01]  * StevenK shores
[13:02]  * plars is here
[13:02] <GrueMaster> dyfet: I see your coffee, and raise you 20oz.
[13:02]  * NCommander raises StevenK shores with snores
[13:02]  * NCommander has a pot freshly brewed
[13:02] <davidm> hello
[13:02] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20091027
[13:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20091027
[13:03] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
[13:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
[13:04] <NCommander> who's here?
[13:04] <NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
[13:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
[13:04] <NCommander> [topic] paulliu to close remaining moblin sync bugs for karmic
[13:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  paulliu to close remaining moblin sync bugs for karmic
[13:05] <StevenK> I believe they have all been closed
[13:05] <NCommander> [topic] ogra to file a bug for dhclient not working properly with the FEC driver in d-i
[13:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to file a bug for dhclient not working properly with the FEC driver in d-i
[13:06] <NCommander> ogra, ping?
[13:06] <ogra> aww
[13:06]  * ogra was bitten by DST change
[13:07] <JamieBennett> ogra: me too!
[13:07]  * NCommander wonders when we change the clocks in the states
[13:07] <ogra> my gcal apparently too :/
[13:07] <soren> NCommander: This weekend.
[13:07] <plars> in the US, we postponed DST change until next week (just so we wouldn't interfere with Ubuntu release week of course!)
[13:07] <NCommander> \o/
[13:07]  * NCommander makes a mental note to set the clocks forward.
[13:07] <plars> NCommander: then you'll be two hours off
[13:08]  * NCommander coughs
[13:08] <JamieBennett> lol
[13:08]  * ogra wonders why gcal still shows it at 15:00 
[13:08]  * NCommander drinks his coffee and whistles slowly
[13:08] <NCommander> ogra, probably hasn't been upgraded for DST
[13:08] <NCommander> ogra, so about that bug :-)?
[13:08] <ogra> err, i suck ... missed that
[13:08] <ogra> c/o
[13:09] <NCommander> [action] ogra to file a bug for dhclient not working properly with the FEC driver in d-i
[13:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to file a bug for dhclient not working properly with the FEC driver in d-i
[13:09] <NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster and plars to test suspend/resume on babbage and report results
[13:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster and plars to test suspend/resume on babbage and report results
[13:09] <plars> bug #456659
[13:09] <GrueMaster> Simple, it doesn't work.
[13:10] <NCommander> Is there a bug for Dove as well?
[13:10] <plars> NCommander: yes
[13:10] <dyfet> yes
[13:10] <plars> bug #453682
[13:10] <plars> also, hibernate does not seem to be supported on either... could just need to be turned on in the kernel config, but I haven't had time to confirm that
[13:10] <plars> hopefully one of the kernel guys will beat me to it
[13:11] <paulliu> StevenK: yes. all bugs are closed.
[13:11] <NCommander> [action] dyfet to test recent banshee release and report to the banshee bug
[13:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  dyfet to test recent banshee release and report to the banshee bug
[13:12] <dyfet> Had same issue
[13:12] <dyfet> Noted in bug :)
[13:12] <NCommander> [topic] Specification Review
[13:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Review
[13:12] <ogra> NCommander, where is the new rolling action i added
[13:12] <ogra> (sponsoring feedback)
[13:12] <NCommander> ogra, oh, *grumble*. I must have missed that when I wrote the minutes
[13:12]  * NCommander makes it appear
[13:13] <NCommander> [action] Sponsoring feedback
[13:13] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Sponsoring feedback
[13:13] <NCommander> uh
[13:13] <NCommander> [topic] Sponsoring feedback
[13:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsoring feedback
[13:13] <StevenK> Haha
[13:13]  * ogra fixed bug 401039 with a sponsoring upload
[13:13] <StevenK> Right, NCommander is doing all the sponsoring
[13:14] <ogra> anyone else who did some sponsoring this week ?
[13:14] <ogra> bad bad ... we suck
[13:14] <NCommander> I did some work with apw on fixing bcmlwl on 2.6.32 kernels, but that wasn't sponsoring as it usually counts :-/
[13:15] <ogra> i would say we only count sponsoring if it results in an upload you do
[13:15] <NCommander> Anyone want to say anything else on this topic before I move on?
[13:15] <ogra> yes
[13:15] <ogra> we need to get better here
[13:15] <ogra> (which is why i added the topic)
[13:16] <NCommander> [topic] Specification Review
[13:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Review
[13:17] <NCommander> I think the only spec that still marked incomplete is lsb compliance, so I don't think we need to spend too much time on this
[13:17] <NCommander> GrueMaster, anything to report?
[13:17] <GrueMaster> I am almost finished testing RC.  Just need the manual bits.
[13:17] <ogra> err, what about the new specs :)
[13:17] <GrueMaster> For LSB
[13:18] <NCommander> ogra, TBH, I rather save that for next week once we're past release
[13:18] <NCommander> and ****, door, brb
[13:18] <NCommander> [topic] UNR Status
[13:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  UNR Status
[13:18] <ogra> NCommander, not sure but i think there should be blueprints registered for the ones we want on the schedule prior release
[13:18] <ogra> davidm may correct me if thats not needed this round though
[13:19] <ogra> last time we definately had to have blueprints for the schedule the week before release
[13:19] <plars> I haven't tested it yet, but supposedly Bug #447886 was fixed for unr
[13:19] <NCommander> ogra, I'll do a New Specification Discussion towards the end though
[13:19] <plars> JamieBennett: did you happen to look at it?
[13:20] <JamieBennett> plars: It is (I've tested)
[13:20] <ogra> NCommander, ok
[13:20]  * NCommander loves packages being delivered at 9:20
[13:20] <plars> that's good news
[13:20] <ogra> yeah
[13:20] <JamieBennett> Indeed, took a little work yesterday but its done now
[13:20] <plars> I found a particularly nasty bug about oem install when testing isos last night, but it turned out not to be UNR specific
[13:21] <plars> it will be one of the bugs that's triggering a respin for today though, so there should be new images to test in the near future
[13:24] <NCommander> Anything have anything else to add before I go to UMR status?
[13:25] <NCommander> [topic] UMR Status
[13:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  UMR Status
[13:25] <JamieBennett> why is it that pidgin always dies during a meeting :(
[13:25] <paulliu> I've tested most of the bugs today. Most of them are not reproducible by myself. And those are not really major problem so things are good now.
[13:25] <ogra> cool
[13:26] <paulliu> About UMR compliance, I've check the report again.
[13:26] <ogra> JamieBennett, probably because pidgin knows that it sucks for IRC ? :)
[13:26] <paulliu> On library part, it seems we need to keep old version of library to make the compliance. But it's really annoying to do that.
[13:26] <plars> a lot of moblin-remix bugs got fixed in the latest downgrade
[13:26] <paulliu> plars: yes. Mutter downgrade fixed a lot of bugs.
[13:26] <GrueMaster> Moblin compliance for RC looks great (to me).  Only 133 failures out of 70106 tests.
[13:27] <JamieBennett> ogra: Indeed I keep going back to irssi but I just can't get on with it
[13:27] <ogra> xchat ++ :)
[13:27] <paulliu> GrueMaster: ok. I just thought we need to make that 0 failures for compliance..:)
[13:27] <StevenK> irssi ++++++++++
[13:27] <GrueMaster> Compared with 165/70084 the week prior.
[13:27] <paulliu> So the status is good now. Thanks.
[13:27] <StevenK> That's 0.1% of all tests failing
[13:27] <plars> GrueMaster: were comparison results ever posted for upstream moblin?
[13:28] <GrueMaster> paulliu: I don't think we can achieve 0 failures.  Some of these are LSB tests that fail on the regular LSB test suite as well.
[13:28] <paulliu> GrueMaster: Yes.
[13:28] <GrueMaster> plars: not yet.  Time and platforms were an issue.  Hope to do them soon.
[13:28] <NCommander> GrueMaster, do these same failures show up on the reference implementation from Intel?
[13:28] <plars> understand
[13:29] <GrueMaster> NCommander: ^^^
[13:29] <GrueMaster> I haven't had time or a spare platform to run the Intel image.
[13:29] <NCommander> GrueMaster, right, sorry
[13:30] <NCommander> [topic] New Specification Discussion
[13:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  New Specification Discussion
[13:30] <GrueMaster> My son is going to be working on getting another 32bit system online this week for LSB testing in my rack, freeing up one of my D945GCLF systems for side by side comparisons.
[13:31] <ogra> NCommander, no armel status ?
[13:32] <lool> Hey folks; missed the beginning of the meeting
[13:32] <plars> hi lool
[13:32] <ogra> yay for DST change :)
[13:32] <plars> heh
[13:32] <NCommander> ogra, we haven't one before, but probably a good idea
[13:32] <NCommander> [topic] armel image status
[13:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  armel image status
[13:32] <ogra> imx51 live looks good ...
[13:32] <lool> May I respectfullly suggest that you drop the Specification review stuff until post UDS?  You can ping people to remind them of writing specifications though
[13:32] <ogra> apart from the syspend/hibernate issues
[13:32] <plars> there are some important bugs on armel I'd like to bring up
[13:33] <plars> the hibernate and suspend resusme ones of course that we discussed earlier
[13:33] <NCommander> dove live looks good based on test results
[13:33] <plars> also bug 458501
[13:33] <ogra> lool, i only asked for it because we might have to have registered for scheduling
[13:33] <lool> On a similar note, Sponsoring isn't really something we should be spending time on at this time of the cycle IMHO
[13:33] <lool> (So probably something which is not worth discussing in the last two weeks before release)
[13:34] <lool> (The list of topics for the meeting were meant to track deliverables and bugs through the cycle for e.g. alpha releases etc.)
[13:34] <NCommander> lool, fair enough.
[13:34]  * ogra thinks its valuable to report sponsoring status at any time 
[13:35] <lool> On ARM, I found Dove Y1 install to be quite unstable too, like NCommander
[13:35] <lool> ogra: Most items in the sponsoring queue are not compatible with final freeze
[13:35] <GrueMaster> Am I the only one with working audio on Dove Y1?
[13:35] <NCommander> lool, plars's Y1 was stable though. I'll be investigating this today.
[13:35] <lool> I am also very worried with the babbage 2.0 issue
[13:35] <NCommander> GrueMaster, with yesterday's daily, did yo have any stability issues with your Y1?
[13:35] <ogra> lool, though still i did a sponsoring upload to universe last week
[13:35] <lool> That it doesn't come up after install
[13:36] <plars> GrueMaster: afaik, yes... I still haven't got audio working
[13:36] <GrueMaster> Haven't tested Dove this week yet.
[13:36] <ogra> lool, is there a bug for it ?
[13:36] <lool> I let it run overnight and gdm created so many temp files that it ran out of inodes in the /var/run tmpfs
[13:36]  * ogra hasnt seen one
[13:36] <lool> ogra: No; JamieBennett and I see it, but we don't know what's happening
[13:36] <ogra> sounds definately weird
[13:36] <lool> I couldn't diagnose it enough before leaving and had issues getting a screen to work _at all_ here
[13:36] <GrueMaster> ogra: Bug #451635
[13:36] <lool> (I'm using the sprint's screens and they didn't work with 2.0 and 2.5 boards!!)
[13:37] <ogra> boot with "text"
[13:37] <lool> I had to borrow another screen which does indeed work
[13:37] <ogra> bah
[13:37] <lool> There are also clock issues on 2.0
[13:37] <lool> Perhaps even on 2.5
[13:37] <ogra> lool, tried to boot with a video= cmdline ?
[13:37] <lool> What I think we need to do now for Babbage / Dove is identifying the rough spots of the install and making sure our installation instructions cover them and provide workarounds
[13:37] <lool> ogra: I did, and it didn't help
[13:38] <ogra> might be that the EDID fallback to 1024x768 doesnt work on B2
[13:38] <lool> ogra: video=mxcfb=1024x768@60,bpp=16 to be precise
[13:38] <ogra> very weird
[13:38] <ogra> not sure bpp=16 will be respected
[13:38] <lool> I suspect the EDID support exposes the hardware bug on 2.0/2.5 more or less badly
[13:38] <lool> ogra: What's the correct arg?
[13:38] <ogra> just video=mxcfb=1024x768@60 i think
[13:38] <JamieBennett> ogra: My install boots to GDM then the screen goes blank. A press of the enter key brings it back.
[13:38] <lool> I found it reading the driver's source code; I'm relatively confident it should be
[13:39] <ogra> i have to look it up after the meeting
[13:39] <lool> ogra: I was specifically interested in using bpp=16 since that was a recent change in the kernel
[13:39] <ogra> JamieBennett, sounds like DPMS
[13:39] <lool> JamieBennett: Oh you can _stay_ on the gdm screen?
[13:39] <lool> You're lucky; I dont see anything at all
[13:40] <JamieBennett> Boot to GDM, 1/2 second and the screen goes blank. Press enter key its all back for good
[13:40] <lool> NCommander: Did you update the bootrom version for dove install?
[13:40] <NCommander> lool, not yet, that was on my TODO for today.
[13:40] <lool> JamieBennett: Wow that's not at all what I've been seeing
[13:41] <JamieBennett> lool: strange
[13:41] <lool> NCommander: So I was quite unhappy to discover that the uboot update -- which is more or less required -- itself requires a TFTP server; so far I did everything without and am a bit sad that we require people to have another Ubuntu computer to install Dove boards     :-/
[13:42] <lool> I checked out the Uboot code but there's a cascade of subtle defines and runtime computations for the Uboot NAND/SPI NOR addresses and size and alignment and crazy shit which makes anything but "bubt" unpractical
[13:43] <NCommander> lool, there's a known method for doing a NAND reflash without bubt, but its a bit hit or miss I found
[13:43] <NCommander> lool, we could add a sbubt command somewhat easily though if desirable.
[13:43] <lool> I guess that leaves people who cant use a second computer with the only option of typing uboot commands manually; it would be great to do a uboot upgrade command from memory instead
[13:43] <NCommander> (serial bubt)
[13:44] <lool> NCommander: We'd have to provide tools for the host side as well, and it again means two Ubuntu computers
[13:44] <lool> NCommander: But a mbubt would be fine; we would just tell people to tftpdownload + mbubt, or USB load + mbubt, or serial load + mbubt...
[13:45] <GrueMaster> Considering that to do anything in uboot requires a serial connection to a separate system, isn't this whole argument moot?
[13:45] <lool> I think I did upgrade the bootrom from an USB stick fine though
[13:45]  * NCommander agrees with GrueMaster 
[13:45] <lool> GrueMaster: Entering commands can be done from e.g. hyperterminal
[13:45] <NCommander> lool, I could write an entire automatic update system for uboot via boot.scr
[13:45] <NCommander> lool, and I can run TFTP server on Windows as well
[13:45] <GrueMaster> lool: do you honestly thing Ubuntu is the only OS with tftp support?
[13:45] <lool> GrueMaster: I was sad to hear that, but a lot of companies working on ARM devices run Windows for development
[13:46] <lool> GrueMaster: I honestly dont see us providing support for TFTP server instructions on windows...
[13:46] <persia> tftp servers are usually one of the first servers available in an OS.  Lots of old-style fixed-line telephones can run them even :)
[13:46] <GrueMaster> We don't need to.  Only what to put on their tftp server, not what os to run on it.
[13:46]  * NCommander believes the current instructions are written in that mindset
[13:46] <ogra> GrueMaster, the point is that we failed if you *have* to use a serial console
[13:47] <ogra> which you e.g. dont have to do with the babbage images
[13:47] <lool> Well we're discussing uboot upgrades anyway
[13:47] <NCommander> ogra, yes, but to upgrade u-boot in flash to a version that's acceptable requires a serial console
[13:47] <lool> NCommander: I think providing rom + uboot upgrade USB sticks would rock
[13:47] <ogra> ++
[13:47] <GrueMaster> I.e. "Setup a tftp server according to the instructions for your desktop OS..."
[13:47] <NCommander> lool, the problem is theres no sane way to provide feedback that the upgrade is complete
[13:48] <lool> NCommander: LEDs?
[13:48] <ogra> uboot doesnt know when a write finished ?
[13:48] <lool> Anyway, we're getting a bit far from release stuff
[13:48]  * NCommander fires a back on topic cannon
[13:48] <lool> My concern was: installing ubuntu on dove requires a step which requires setting up a tftp server, and that should be fixed
[13:48] <NCommander> [action] lool and NCommander to discuss u-boot upgrades off-channel and report back
[13:48] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool and NCommander to discuss u-boot upgrades off-channel and report back
[13:49] <lool> I'm happy with uboot upgrade usb sticks or with a new mbubt command or any other similar solution
[13:49] <lool> So do we have a finite list of things we need to cover in installation instructions?
[13:49] <NCommander> so as far as release, how are things looking for armel overall?
[13:49] <GrueMaster> Hey, just got a notification that this meeting is to start in 10 minutes.  Gotta love DST.
[13:50] <NCommander> GrueMaster, odd, mine came on time this morning O_o;
[13:50] <ogra> same here
[13:50] <lool> Note: this meeting is likely to run a bit late as to allow us to cover release matters fully
[13:50]  * ogra just got it now+
[13:50] <plars> NCommander: well, there were the bugs I mentioned earlier, that are still pretty high, and in addition, sata on imx51 and sound on dove are still broken
[13:50] <GrueMaster> Anyone know what's going on with bug #431963
[13:50] <NCommander> lool, we'll have to move to #ubuntu-mobile, there's another meeting after us.
[13:51] <ogra> GrueMaster, nothing apart from FSL being on it
[13:51]  * ogra hasnt heard back more
[13:51] <lool> NCommander: I dont see it on the fridge calendar; which one is it?
[13:51] <plars> TB meeting I think is normally right after us
[13:51] <NCommander> lool, oh, whoops, TB isn't meeting this week
[13:51] <lool> GrueMaster: It's not going to be fixed for release; it's targeted as a SRU candidate
[13:51] <StevenK> TB is every 2 weeks
[13:51] <lool> Yes
[13:51] <NCommander> so we're fine here
[13:51] <GrueMaster> I figured that.  Just wanted to make sure someone was on it.
[13:52] <plars> GrueMaster: until then, any testing you do on imx51 should be to something other than sata
[13:52] <lool> ogra: I'm not quite sure FSL cares for it still
[13:52] <lool> ogra: They got the word that we're past kernel freeze now
[13:52] <ogra> hrm
[13:52] <lool> ogra: Would be good if you'd stay on top of it so that they provide a SRU able fix
[13:52] <ogra> do they know that we still fix critical bugs post release ?
[13:52] <ogra> yeah
[13:53] <lool> ogra: You were on the call with me last week and I mentionned that we wanted to still get help from them to fix this bug post release
[13:53] <lool> ogra: I mentionned the first two weeks after release as the time where we should focus on it
[13:53] <ogra> i'll try to provide them more info and dig down to the actual trigger thats spawned by gnome-session post release
[13:53] <lool> (They objected that they could not continue working on karmic forever, asking for a deadline)
[13:53] <GrueMaster> Do we have a 2.6.28 kernel I can test to see if the sata problem goes away?
[13:53] <lool> ogra: A smaller testcase would indeed help
[13:53] <ogra> lool, well, deadline is two weeks post release then
[13:54] <ogra> :)
[13:54] <lool> GrueMaster, ogra: (post release) feel free to run gnome-session --debug from a xterm session and see what's exactly hanging the board
[13:54] <lool> or SATA IO
[13:54] <ogra> right
[13:54] <lool> ogra: Yup, that's what I told them (roughly)
[13:55] <lool> So are there other release worthy ARM bugs to cover?
[13:55] <lool> What I see we need to cover:
[13:55] <lool> Babbage 2.0 display stability issues
[13:55] <plars> lool: we discussed the suspend/resume and lack of hibernate support earlier
[13:55] <lool> SATA IO errors
[13:55] <ogra> babbage hibernate support is missing, seems like a config option in the kernel isnt on, thats surely also SRU worthy
[13:55] <plars> also, on dove only, gnome-screensaver hangs if you lock/unlock the session
[13:55] <lool> plars: Do you think it needs to be covered in release note like material>
[13:56] <GrueMaster> Does anyone else see the babbage 2.5 screen wrap the top few lines to the bottom?
[13:56] <NCommander> lool, probably looking at why we're seeing Y1 instability and plars isn't.
[13:56] <lool> I dont have access to a dove board to look at gnome-screensaver
[13:56] <ogra> (and suspend not finishing needs debugging on imx51)
[13:56] <lool> dyfet: Can you look into this today?
[13:56] <plars> NCommander: oh, others are seeing it too?  I thought you suspected something was up with your board last night
[13:56] <dyfet> I can yes
[13:56] <ogra> GrueMaster, nope
[13:56] <plars> it's bug #458501
[13:57] <NCommander> plars, lool seeing issues with his Y1
[13:57] <GrueMaster> Pfft.  Figures.
[13:57] <lool> plars: I have the feeling we didn't pay much attention to suspend/resume/hibernate so far; I think these are worth trying to fix, but dont need to be explicitely emphasized for release
[13:57] <plars> NCommander: specifics?
[13:57] <NCommander> plars, can't complete installation, board ust completely hangs with the counter stopping
[13:57] <lool> plars: I'm thinking more of things preventing installation, or preventing normal first time use of Ubuntu
[13:57] <lool> Things which would massively confuse folks basically
[13:57] <ogra> lool, they should  be release noted though
[13:57] <lool> dyfet: Cool, assigned to you then
[13:57] <plars> yes, I did 3 installs on dove last night with no hang
[13:57] <ogra> (the suspend/hibernate issues)
[13:58] <dyfet> ok
[13:58] <plars> I did see the cpu_idle and double-bit errors, but those have not caused me any identifiable problems
[13:58] <lool> ogra: Ok; well could you please care for that with slangasek then?
[13:58] <ogra> i will
[13:58] <NCommander> plars, what u-boot/BootROM?
[13:59] <plars> NCommander: don't have it handy, I'll get you that in a bit
[13:59] <plars> NCommander: it's the one you gave me a couple of weeks ago
[13:59] <NCommander> plars, so not BootROM 2.04 :-/
[13:59] <plars> NCommander: uboot-SPI-Y1-1GB_10142009.bin was the filename if that helps
[14:00] <lool> plars: Was the install really slow?
[14:00] <NCommander> yeah, thats based off u-boot 4.3.0
[14:00] <lool> plars: On dove
[14:00] <plars> lool: yes
[14:00] <lool> plars: Probably that should be release noted
[14:00] <plars> lool: possibly so, it doesn't ever actually appear to hang for me though
[14:00] <lool> plars: Does it slow down, or is it constant speed?
[14:01] <lool> plars: Does it take like 1 hour?
[14:01] <plars> lool: I haven't timed it.  The progress bar does seem to go a bit faster at the beginning, but I'm not sure that's an accurate way to say "it's getting slower as it goes"
[14:01] <lool> I guess my question is: does the user see progress all the time, or shall we warn that there is a known bug
[14:02] <plars> lool: the user sees progress all the time, there are no huge gaps, or anything that makes it look like the system has hung during the install
[14:02] <lool> Ok; then we probably do not need to release note it
[14:03] <lool> So I have this list for ARM stuff: http://paste.ubuntu.com/302806/
[14:04] <ogra> lool, suspend/hibernate on dove ?
[14:04] <lool> Oh I have bug #461812 which I need to cover too
[14:04] <plars> lool: suspend/resume and hibernate.... right what he said
[14:04] <lool> (Need to set the time on Babbage 2.x before install)
[14:04] <lool> (for offline install)
[14:04] <lool> What's status of hibernate on dove?
[14:05] <plars> lool: same as on imx51, appears to not be supported
[14:05] <plars> could just be kernel config
[14:05] <ogra> very likely config
[14:05] <lool> plars: And resume just doens't work on babbage?
[14:05] <plars> lool: no way I can see to resume on babbage
[14:06] <lool> Okay
[14:06] <plars> it seems to see that the pwr button was pressed, but doesn't do anything with it
[14:06] <plars> on dove
[14:06] <plars> it tries to resume
[14:06]  * ogra sees "CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND is not set" on imx51
[14:06] <plars> but the system slows to a crawl
[14:06] <lool> plars: That is fine
[14:06] <ogra> might be the blocking factor for suspend
[14:06] <lool> plars: thanks
[14:06] <lool> Did you guys try networkless installs on dove and babbage boards?
[14:07] <ogra> worked fine here when i tried last time on babbage
[14:07] <plars> lool: I couldn't get to imx51 testing last night, GrueMaster said he was going to though.  On dove I did networkless install and it worked
[14:07] <ogra> but thats a while ago, i'll try one today or tomorrow
[14:07] <GrueMaster> I tested Live.  Stoped after install when rebooting into the sata bug.  Will resume with usb sata controller today.
[14:08] <plars> so the workaround for bug 457536 seems to be working
[14:08] <lool> ogra: So you had one relatively recent networkless install of babbage?
[14:08] <lool> I wont keep that on my radar then, feel free to test one or the other
[14:08] <ogra> two weeks ago or so
[14:08] <lool> Do we have general armel bugs which we didn't cover and should?
[14:08] <plars> my battery on my babbage appears to be dead :(
[14:09] <ogra> tried a voltmeter ?
[14:09] <lool> plars: I would recommend measuring voltage and checking whether you can find hardware to replace it
[14:09] <lool> plars: Do you feel like you would be able to solder it out and replace it with a one you'd shop for?
[14:09] <plars> lool: voltage is 0
[14:09] <lool> s/a one/one
[14:10] <lool> plars: I think I agree your battery is dead
[14:10] <ogra> even with power attached to the board ?
[14:10] <lool> :)
[14:10] <ogra> you should see at least some charge power
[14:10] <plars> lool: going to try to get it out of there when I have time... for right now, I'm only running it powered
[14:10] <ogra> even if the battery doesnt charge
[14:11] <lool> plars: If you feel you need advice on hardware or help on replacing the battery, can you bring it up with FSL or ogra/davidm to bring up to FSL?
[14:11] <plars> it would be good if we could at least get a recommended battery from FSL to replace it with
[14:11]  * ogra was actually planning to ask for battery specs next call
[14:11] <ogra> we dont know what to use to replace them
[14:12] <lool> plars: Agreed; in fact, I think you're relatively local, right?  So I guess you could perhaps even get them to replace it for you if they don't mind
[14:12] <ogra> snap
[14:12] <plars> right, I'd feel a lot more comfortable getting that from them rather than guessing
[14:12] <ogra> definately
[14:12] <plars> lool: yes, they are just down in austin, not too far
[14:12] <lool> plars: Sounds worth raising with them
[14:12] <lool> Ok; no other generic ARM bugs?
[14:12] <lool> JamieBennett: Your 2.0 doens't keep the time, right?
[14:13] <JamieBennett> lool: Right
[14:13] <lool> Ok; I need to release note that
[14:13] <lool> NCommander: I think we covered ARM stuff
[14:13] <lool> Just FYI, the images wont get new langpacks
[14:13] <ogra> lool, you said software center would be slow for you on babbage
[14:13] <NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
[14:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
[14:13] <plars> We are expecting a respin across the board at some point today.  Any testing you can do on UNR, moblin-remix, imx51, or Dove, would be greatly appreciated.  And please document your results at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com
[14:13] <ogra> lool, why is that ?
[14:13] <lool> (We have a buggy germinate on cocoplum and it's too late to fix)
[14:13] <ogra> ah
[14:14] <GrueMaster> I think we can close bug #417009.  I was able to load Oo.o yesterday on the live image.
[14:14] <lool> GrueMaster: No the original bug is there; we only have a workaround in place
[14:14] <plars> GrueMaster: iirc, that may just be a workaround for the time being
[14:14] <ogra> GrueMaster, its was badly worked around
[14:14] <GrueMaster> ah.
[14:15] <lool> (In general, I think it's best if you only close bug when the root cause is fixed, not when a workaround is applied)
[14:15] <lool> If in doubt, split in two
[14:15] <NCommander> lool, +1
[14:15] <ogra> we should have a special "hacked around" status for these :)
[14:15] <plars> ogra: agree, sometimes it's hard to tell
[14:15] <GrueMaster> I didn't know the current resolution was temporary.  I'm just looking at the list.
[14:15] <ogra> it will be permanent for karmic i think ...
[14:16] <ogra> its just not the proper one
[14:16] <ogra> duct taped ...
[14:16] <lool> I'd like to go back to moblin remix and UNR
[14:16] <lool> (Sorry)
[14:16] <lool> Are there things to cover in the release notes for these?
[14:16]  * StevenK looks for matchsticks
[14:17] <StevenK> (It's 1:15am)
[14:17] <lool> The only open release targeted bugs on UNR was this escaping issue for webfavs
[14:17] <NCommander> [topic] UNR status
[14:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  UNR status
[14:17] <lool> But it's been deferred to SRU
[14:17] <lool> And I dont think it's worth release noting
[14:17]  * ogra hands StevenK broomsticks
[14:17] <GrueMaster> Games folder still overlaps bottom of window in UNR.  Need to release note for (hopefully) sru fix.
[14:17] <plars> hmm
[14:18] <StevenK> ogra: The matchsticks are to hold my eyes open
[14:18] <lool> plars: Do you see any major bumps in moblin remix installation or first time usage which should be covered?
[14:18] <plars> there are a handful of people seeing indicator applet disappear on upgrades to unr karmic
[14:18] <ogra> StevenK, i know :)
[14:18] <plars> might be worth release noting how to work around this problem if you see it
[14:18] <ogra> plars, indicator applet or indicator session ?
[14:18] <lool> Hmm
[14:18] <plars> I don't have a good feel for how much of a problem to expect this to be.  I know of 3 cases of it happening, but I've been unable to reproduce it myself
[14:19]  * ogra just saw someone complaining about -session missing on the ubuntu-users ML
[14:19] <plars> indicator-applet-session - the gnome applet in the upper right hand corner that lets you shutdown
[14:19] <lool> Yeah, my problem is with how it happens exactly; I kind of suspect desktop-switcher before upgrading or something like that
[14:19] <ogra> plars, right
[14:19] <ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2009-October/199557.html
[14:19] <plars> it's not that the package didn't install, it's just that it's not running for them
[14:20] <lool> I'll cover these with slangasek; the fact that we don't understand who gets the problem or how it appears makes it a bit hard to word
[14:20] <plars> bug 461115 is the bug on it
[14:20] <lool> "You might or might not miss the shutdown/session menu after an upgrade; in case it goes missing..."
[14:21] <lool> Ok; thanks
[14:21] <lool> I'll check it out with slangasek I think
[14:21] <plars> ok
[14:21] <lool> Any other UNR issues?
[14:21] <lool> JamieBennett: You tested the keyring binaries from the archvie as well?
[14:21] <JamieBennett> lool: Yes, works a treat :)
[14:21] <plars> yes, he mentioned that they were working earlier
[14:22] <lool> Cool
[14:22] <lool> Any other bits for Moblin?
[14:22] <lool> StevenK: Happy with our Moblin / UNR?
[14:22] <StevenK> lool: I am, for the most part
[14:22] <plars> a lot of stuff got fixed with the mutter version change
[14:22] <StevenK> Concerned about the -session bug
[14:22] <plars> one thing of interest... though I can't find the bug on it
[14:22] <JamieBennett> lool: although why you have to unlock the keyring every time you boot to access the network is another issue
[14:23] <plars> is that you have to hunt for the installer
[14:23] <paulliu> lool: Most bugs are seems not important. Or we already know that issue but still waiting the upstream.
[14:23] <lool> StevenK: Which one is that?
[14:23] <plars> it isn't in the favorites that get displayed on the main screen
[14:23] <lool> StevenK: indicator-session?
[14:23] <plars> might be worth a release note
[14:23] <lool> paulliu: Thanks
[14:23] <StevenK> lool: The one that we just talked about
[14:23] <lool> Oh I know
[14:23] <StevenK> plars: Yeah, I tried to fix it, and failed
[14:23] <lool> How to launch the installer in moblin remix should be release noted
[14:23] <plars> interestingly enough, the software center *did* get added there :)
[14:23] <plars> lool: right
[14:24] <GrueMaster> Games folder still overlaps bottom of window in UNR.  Need to release note for (hopefully) sru fix.
[14:24] <GrueMaster> There used to be a bug filed on this, but I'm not seeing it now.
[14:24] <plars> GrueMaster: don't think that one warrants a release note probably
[14:24] <lool> I noted that one down, even if I have to decide with slangasek whether it's release note worthy
[14:24] <davmor2> GrueMaster: there still is a bug on it
[14:24] <plars> GrueMaster: it's bug 445829
[14:25] <lool> I feel like it's an obvious bug and it doesn't block you from installation or normal usage too much
[14:25]  * plars has mad bugfinding skills today
[14:25] <lool> plars: Impressive :)
[14:25] <lool> Ok; do we need to discuss anything else for release?
[14:25] <NCommander> the launchpad-foo is strong with this one
[14:26] <lool> Perhaps someone should give some testing to random images like alternates and netboots for arm/unr if they feel like it
[14:26] <lool> Not needed, just nice to have if you're bored
[14:26] <plars> not just that, but all of them
[14:26] <plars> and *please* log your results on iso.qa.ubuntu.com
[14:26]  * JamieBennett is downloading the iMX51 image now
[14:26] <lool> Right
[14:26] <lool> Also please add a comment when you "fail" an image
[14:26] <lool> Well sometimes the bug link is enough
[14:27] <lool> But consider adding a comment when it helps clarifying breakage
[14:27] <lool> Ok; I guess we're about to adjourn
[14:27] <lool> Do put some ice in the freezer
[14:27] <lool> To cool the champagne on thursday  ;-)
[14:28] <lool> dyfet: Assigned 458501 to you
[14:28] <ogra> :D
[14:28] <GrueMaster> Champagne?  I'm going for the hard stuff.
[14:28] <lool> NCommander: thanks for chairing
[14:28] <NCommander> lool, np
[14:28] <NCommander> did we do ABO?
[14:28] <lool> Folks I wont be at the meeting next week (traveling) and might not attend regularly future meetings, but if you invite me explicitely to discuss a topic or just ping me during the meeting, I shall be able to comment
[14:29] <StevenK> AOB
[14:29] <StevenK> Not, ABO
[14:29] <NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
[14:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
[14:29] <lool> And I wont be there Friday (leave)
[14:29] <lool> And I'll go walk my dog Sunday
[14:30]  * GrueMaster sits in frustration, watching his dls modem reset continuously through the meeting.
[14:30] <ogra> your dog ?
[14:30] <GrueMaster> s/dls/dsl
[14:30] <NCommander> I might be swapping Friday out
[14:30] <lool> Well I dont have a dog, but couldn't think of something representing personal stuff nobody cares about better  :)
[14:30] <NCommander> So I may beMIA unless I'm needed due to an unforseen issue with release :-)
[14:30] <davmor2> lool: is it a yellowdog :D
[14:30] <lool> StevenK, paulliu: Good night guys
[14:30]  * StevenK goes to find a bed
[14:30] <paulliu> lool: Thank you.
[14:30] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[14:31] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:30.
[14:31] <ogra> lool, well, as long as you dont go buying cigarettes and never return ...
[14:31] <lool> ogra: I will go buying cigarettes in the foundations team next week though
[14:31] <ogra> yeah
[14:31] <lool> (And will never return  ;-)
[14:31] <ogra> but we wont let you off the hook easily :)
[14:31] <ogra> we'll still bother you :P