ajmitchasleep or at work?00:00
ScottKMeh!  Sleep is for the weak.00:01
sebnerScottK: I'm really but I have to go to bed. 7 hours in the train. 1.00 am and my first lesson tomorrow is math :(00:01
ScottKOK, you're forgiven.00:01
ScottKGood night.00:01
sebnergn8 and thanks for all your hard work!00:02
asacScottK: ok we build fixed helix-player, also build tested in ppa ... and checked that firefox can load that plugin in about:plugins00:54
asacabout to say good night ;)00:54
ScottKasac: Excellent.  Uploaded again, I assume?01:04
ScottKI see it.01:05
asacScottK: yes. its up01:06
hedkandihello motus01:53
hedkandiI guess you're all busy with the next release.01:54
hedkandiI've spent the past two days trying to learn how to create a package for revu01:54
hedkandiThe documentation for this is utterly terrible.01:54
hedkandiand I can safely say that I am a smart guy, and if, after two days of study01:55
hedkandiI still have not got a clue what you people, and your documentation is on about01:55
hedkandithen it is inadequate.01:55
hedkandiI think you guys could think a little less about all the fantastic features you're going to brag about01:55
hedkandiand think a little more about how to make linux accessible to other people instead.01:56
micahghedkandi: if you think the process needs help, then help make it better01:56
hedkandiI am not in a position to fix it myself because I know nothing about the topic01:56
micahgthen how do you know there's a problem?01:56
zookohedkandi: you sound frustrated.01:56
hedkandithis "oh it's up to YOU to solve the problem" is a cop-out01:56
zookoI sympathize with the frustration of trying to do something technical and finding the docs inadequate.01:57
hedkandiit's just a way of absolving yourselves of the responsibility01:57
micahgnot up to you, but most of the people here are volunteers01:57
hedkandiright well I'm going to bed01:57
micahgthat frustrates me01:58
ajmitchwhat, the complete lack of specific details in that whine?01:58
micahgthe arrogance that the user needs to be served, that because something already exists, it must be made perfect by the people who made it01:59
micahgI think it's cool that people can jump in and help02:00
micahgthat's one of the reasons I like being a part of the ubuntu community02:00
micahgover the past few days I had a small glimpse into the amount of work that goes into packaging02:02
ajmitchand because of that, I recognise that I've lost my right to complain about karmic by not helping improve it :)02:02
micahgand I think it's amazing what the MOTUs do02:02
directhexhe didn't even say which docs he feels sucks02:05
ajmitchprobably the packaging guide02:08
ajmitchbut we don't know02:08
* Yagisan is suddenly reminded why he would violate the CoC should he ever do "support" again for free02:14
directhexi quit #debian many years ago to avoid high blood pressure02:18
YagisanI can imagine02:20
Yagisanit's the sense of entitlement that is most frustrating02:21
* ScottK has a consulting rate for sense of entitlement02:21
Yagisanit's easier to put up with when you get financially compensated, but most of these people are too cheep for that02:22
zulajmitch: blah02:25
* Yagisan wonders if he should upgrade or fresh install in 2 days02:25
ScottKzul: Would you mind pastebining me your opennebula diff?02:41
ScottKzul: Ack.  Looks good.  Thanks.02:43
ScottKSo I'm starting to like debhelper 7.03:57
ScottKI spent an hour trying to coax pyproj into building with it's cdbs rules and gave it up as impossible.  In 5 minutes I had it building with debhelper 7.03:58
ScottKNice readable docs too.  I didn't have to grep the source to figure stuff out http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/debhelper.html04:01
ari-tczewWhile kamic development cycle I saw that developers don't like debhelper 7, because it breaks languages or something...04:01
StevenKScottK: Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.04:02
ScottKari-tczew: I think people are still getting used to it because it's new.04:02
ari-tczewe.g. notify-osd04:02
ScottKNo idea about that.04:03
ScottKPersonally, I've stayed away from it because I wasn't having any problems I thought it would solve.04:04
ScottKUntil tonight.04:04
ari-tczewScottK: are you working 24h ?04:05
StevenKScottK: But cdbs is a problem? :-)04:05
ScottKNot quite.04:05
ScottKStevenK: IME it works fine for many common use cases.  It's when you need to deviate from that that the magic gets scary and dark.04:05
StevenKScottK: Exactly. If you have a simple ./configure, make, make install, it's fine. But debhelper 7 even makes that case simple04:06
ScottKIf I was starting a package from scratch now, I'd use dh, but until tonight I've had no case for doing the work to convert an existing package.04:07
StevenKScottK: I've ripped yada out of packages, and switched to db04:08
ScottKWell yada, sure.04:08
ajmitchStevenK: have you managed to purge yada from the archive yet?04:09
StevenKajmitch: No. :-(04:10
StevenKThere's still around 20 source packages that use it.04:10
StevenKHobbsee reckons we should just remove it and let those 20 break.04:10
ajmitchI agree04:11
ajmitchI don't recognise any of those 20 packages, I'm sure they're not important04:11
* StevenK ponders a death-to-yada spec04:13
JanChm, how to find those 20? ;)04:14
ScottKI'm thinking about a spec to have up stop carrying binaries forward from old releases.  Once the toolchain is in place, rebuild the entire archive and remove any binaries that fail.04:15
ScottKThat way any binaries we release with we know built at least once during the cycle.04:15
lifelessScottK: +104:16
zookoI really like the fact that libcrypto++ runs its self-tests when built, which means that I don't have to worry about a broken one (due to the apparently bug in the new binutils) showing up in Ubuntu.04:16
ScottKMore self tests would be good.04:16
zookoIt makes me fantasize about the Test Driven Operating System, where no upgrade is allowed if it doesn't pass its own unit tests strictly better than the previous version did.04:17
ScottKThe bigger problem now though is the ~10% of the archive we can't build.04:17
StevenKSome of the packages in that list are ... special04:17
ScottKStevenK: They are.  I did a fair number of removals this time around too (thanks for the help on kaffe, btw).04:17
micahgScottK: are FTBFS fixes allowed after release?04:17
ScottKmicahg: Yes.04:17
ajmitchmicahg: normal SRU rules04:17
JanCStevenK: I guess this is 'reverse-build-depends' in karmic?04:19
StevenKJanC: They are the packages that Build-Depends in yada in Karmic04:22
dtchenugh, another item queued for the long 10.04 fixing04:23
ajmitchdtchen: bug 433683 can be set as fix released since the fix is in the linux-backports-modules-alsa package?04:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 433683 in linux "HP Pavilion dv7 2108 doesn't mute speakers & switch output to headphones when they are plugged in" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43368304:24
dtchenajmitch: nah, not until 10.04 gets 2.6.3x, x>=2. OTOH, I've added a linux-backports-modules-2.6.31 task and marked it Fix Released04:27
ajmitchok, thought I'd check since the alsa modules package isn't particularly obvious04:28
ajmitchbut the fix works nicely, it's good to be able to listen to music in the office again :)04:29
dtchenyeah, I'm happy l-b-m gained the 20091012 snapshot04:29
dtchenit resolves a crackload of regressions04:29
ScottKBTW, we're open for business for Universe uploads for another 7 and a half hours ...04:34
porthoseScottK, bug #46165604:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 461656 in rapache "Rapache FTBFS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/46165604:35
ScottKporthose: Uploaded.  Thank you.04:45
porthoseScottK, ty :)04:46
ScottKporthose: I did edit your debian/changelog slightly.  Have a look at that after it's in.04:47
porthoseScottK,  Ok, was it not verbose enough?04:47
ScottKporthose: No,  The regex for auto bug closing has a space in it.  Also don't go over 79 characters in a line.04:48
porthoseOh ok04:48
wrapsterguys no matter what i try im still not going any further than http://pastie.org/67043905:04
wrapsterdid everything I know... can anyone help me pls..05:05
wrapsteraccording to geser, idea i tried running individual make, even then I end up with this only.05:05
wrapsterdamn libnss05:05
wrapsterpls help folks05:05
JanCis that on Solaris or what?05:07
wrapsterJanC: thats on nexenta: solaris kernel+ ubuntu userland05:08
fabrice_spwrapster, not sure you will receive help today: this is the last day for last bugfixing uploads05:09
* ScottK will be back after some sleep to review more stuff.05:10
wrapsterfabrice_sp: oh man..05:10
wrapsterok.. if you ppl find some time pls look into this as well..05:10
wrapsterthanks anyway guys.05:10
fabrice_spAny motu release to have a look at http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/302554/ (const char * invalid conversion)05:33
fabrice_spScottK, I've just uploaded kmchart, linked to the previous pastebin05:48
dholbachgood morning06:45
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fabrice_spHi. Any motu-release to have a look at bug #461696?08:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 461696 in jta "FFe: Sync jta 2.6+dfsg-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/46169608:56
fabrice_spthis fixes a FTBFS08:56
wrapsterfolks finally i built the libnss 64bit version...09:01
wrapsterworking fine.. if anyone is free let me know.. I have a few queries (not with pkging) to now write a wrapper for this...09:02
ScottKfabrice_sp: Looks good.  Thanks.09:28
fabrice_spthanks ScottK :-)09:29
dstansbyHi guys, just wondering if anyone could elighten me as to why I'm getting the following error whilst trying to build a package:09:50
dstansbyError: Target "linux", package "rtl" not found09:50
dstansbymake: *** [configure-stamp] Error 109:50
dstansbydpkg-buildpackage: error: fakeroot debian/rules clean gave error exit status 209:50
sebnerScottK: I ignored my alarm clock, slept until now (missed maths) ... anything to sponsor for me? ^^09:57
ScottKsebner: Not that I know of.09:59
directhexsebner, can you beat monobristol.git with a stick until allpackages.git works for me?09:59
sebnerdirecthex: looking10:01
ScottKI'm off for awhile, but ought to be able to make an appearance shortly before we lock things down.10:02
sebnerdirecthex: wondering what's broken there (again)10:03
ograScottK, hrm, your upload broke usb-imagewriter10:43
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Q-FUNKhowdy! what is the procedure for getting a package approved to ${LTS}-backports ?11:34
Q-FUNKI'm refering to the request in LP bug #237224 which I think is reasonable.11:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 237224 in cups-pdf "No PDF file created when too-long File names result from ridiculous web page titles " [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/23722411:35
Q-FUNKthe delta between what's in Hardy and current upstream is minimal.11:35
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wrapsterwhy does something like this not work? how can i resolve it?11:45
macocan someone hit the retry button on maven-repository-builder? it was ftbfs but the dependency issue is fixed so it should build now11:46
macoer oh... wait it failed to build on i386...11:47
randomaction!backports | Q-FUNK11:50
ubottuQ-FUNK: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging11:50
macook yeah, i think maven-repository-builder should build now11:54
ScottKogra: OK.  Ack for the revert.11:54
ograScottK, gracias12:00
slytherinmaco: it failed again12:03
macoi wonder if it failed in the same way12:03
slytherintaht only you can tell.12:04
macothe fail was a missing dependency that is definitely in the repos12:04
ScottKWould someone with ops please make /topic say we are FROZEN for Karmic.12:05
slytherinThis time it is MethodNotFoundException12:05
ScottKIt's SRU material now.12:05
macoslytherin: only on i386, right? just like before?12:06
macoit builds in a amd64 pbuilder12:06
slytherinmaco: It is arch:all package. It will be built only on i386.12:06
macooh ok12:06
dtchenmaco: create an i386 {s,}chroot and recreate the issue12:28
bddebianHeya gang14:30
iulianHi bddebian.14:31
bddebianHeya iulian14:31
sebnerhuhu bddebian iulian14:45
iulianHey sebner.14:46
bdrung_iulian, nhandler, ScottK, sistpoty|work: we did not manage to update eclipse-cdt. so it's better to remove it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eclipse-cdt/+bug/46199514:57
ubottuLaunchpad bug 461995 in eclipse-cdt "RFA: Please remove eclipse-cdt from the karmic" [Undecided,New]14:57
sistpoty|workbdrung_: what about duing an sru?14:58
iulianbdrung_: Is it really not needed anymore?14:58
bdrung_sistpoty|work: this would be an solution. but for eclipse-cdt we need some more packages (eclipse-mylyn, eclipse-emf, eclipse-rse) which are not in the archive15:00
sistpoty|workbdrung_: ah, ok, I guess removal seems like the better choice then15:00
bdrung_iulian: there are users of eclipse-cdt, but the package in the archive is totally outdated and does not work.15:00
sistpoty|work(or at least removing the binaries)15:01
bdrung_removing the binaries would be sufficient15:01
bdrung_with the current eclipse package you can install plugins as user (stored in ~/.eclipse).15:01
bdrung_iulian, nhandler, ScottK, sistpoty|work: second question: will the bugfix for bug 448337 be accepted?15:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 448337 in nautilus-open-terminal ".bashrc is not executed when terminal is opened through nautilus-open-terminal" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44833715:04
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sebnerhuhu sistpoty|work , I missed you desperatly yesterday :P15:05
sistpoty|workhi sebner15:05
sistpoty|worksebner: I was busy at work :(15:05
sistpoty|workbdrung_: I assume it can go through via SRU15:08
* hyperair scratches head. where did all my wine shortcuts go?15:10
hyperairit seems winemenubuilder blew them away =.=15:10
sebnerheh, huhu hyperair15:11
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hyperairdamn weird =\15:11
hyperairi mean all i did was replace a wined3d.dll..15:11
hyperairand do some tweaks with winetools. wait, that must have done it15:12
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konstantinhi! i like to code, i like ubuntu, linux, c++, c and so on ... couple of minutes ago i watched MOTU: Common Questions Asked on youtube. how can i get into this?17:29
dholbachhey konstantin17:31
konstantinhi :)17:31
dholbachcheck out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted and the pages linked from there17:31
dholbachthere should be a bunch of good information like the packaging guide, the packaging recipes, information about ubuntu development processes and stuff and links to more videos17:31
dholbachkarmic is almost "in the bag" now, but Lucid could be YOUR release cycle :)17:32
macokonstantin: welcome :)17:33
konstantini expected you guys to trash me *haha17:33
maco(go check out his other vids of howtos...very useful!)17:33
konstantinvery nice in here17:34
macothat wouldnt be very ubuntu :P17:34
dholbachkonstantin: and be sure to ask your questions in here - we appreciate you helping out17:35
konstantinwow! Packaging Training is this Thursday at 7 am in switzerland that's early17:36
konstantini try to join you then17:38
dholbachkonstantin: I don't think there's a session planned atm17:39
dholbachwe're figuring out something there17:39
mptDoes apt treat "Breaks:" without a less-than clause identically to "Conflicts:"?17:56
hyperaircan someone here run `dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE`?18:00
hyperairsomeone here running 32-bit ubuntu18:01
randomactionhyperair: i486-linux-gnu18:04
hyperairalright thanks18:04
randomactionhyperair: (karmic i386)18:04
hyperairso it's not my chroot acting weird18:04
hyperairso how do i go about getting the $host as autotools would detect it?18:05
hyperairfrom debian/rules, that is18:05
konstantindoes anybody know why karmic doesn't ship with pidgin?18:22
jdongkonstantin: it was decided to ship Telepathy instead18:23
konstantinbecause it uses D-Bus?18:24
joaopintokonstantin, because empathy was selected as the default18:25
joaopintofor multiple reasons, gnome integration being one of them18:25
ari-tczewIt's not the time for wondering "why?"18:26
konstantinoh ok ... just trying to figure out how to seek out fitting software18:26
CarlFKis there a script to make a  dpatch-run .patch file using cvs diff?18:26
fabrice_spCarlFK, you can use dpatch-edit-patch <patch-name> and apply the diff inside the shell18:57
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ari-tczewCarlFK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/303023/19:03
* kees joins the rest of motu and hugs ScottK too :)19:39
jcastroomg kittens!19:43
* quadrispro gives ScottK an hug and a beer19:53
* micahg isn't a MOTU but wants to give ScottK a hug anyways :)19:55
CarlFKfabrice_sp: ari-tczew - thanks20:14
fabrice_sp86 packages are not installable because of unmets. It's better than Intrepid, if I remember correctly20:30
fabrice_spBetter than Jaunty, I wanted to say20:31
micahg\sh: is there a reason that zend framework doesn't install dojo?21:20
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Buuntuhi, can I request a mentor here?21:36
macoBuuntu: asking on the mailing list might work better :)21:39
Buuntumaco: link?21:40
macoBuuntu: universe is already frozen for karmic, so i think things'll be a little calm til lucid opens up21:40
* maco looks21:40
porthose https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Junior_Contributor21:41
* maco goes to read the wiki link21:41
maconever saw that before21:41
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