[00:00] <ajmitch> asleep or at work?
[00:01] <ScottK> Meh!  Sleep is for the weak.
[00:01] <sebner> ScottK: I'm really but I have to go to bed. 7 hours in the train. 1.00 am and my first lesson tomorrow is math :(
[00:01] <ScottK> OK, you're forgiven.
[00:01] <ScottK> Good night.
[00:02] <sebner> heh
[00:02] <sebner> gn8 and thanks for all your hard work!
[00:54] <asac> ScottK: ok we build fixed helix-player, also build tested in ppa ... and checked that firefox can load that plugin in about:plugins
[00:54] <asac> about to say good night ;)
[01:04] <ScottK> asac: Excellent.  Uploaded again, I assume?
[01:05] <ScottK> I see it.
[01:06] <asac> ScottK: yes. its up
[01:06] <asac> thx
[01:53] <hedkandi> hello motus
[01:54] <hedkandi> I guess you're all busy with the next release.
[01:54] <hedkandi> I've spent the past two days trying to learn how to create a package for revu
[01:54] <hedkandi> The documentation for this is utterly terrible.
[01:55] <hedkandi> and I can safely say that I am a smart guy, and if, after two days of study
[01:55] <hedkandi> I still have not got a clue what you people, and your documentation is on about
[01:55] <hedkandi> then it is inadequate.
[01:55] <hedkandi> I think you guys could think a little less about all the fantastic features you're going to brag about
[01:56] <hedkandi> and think a little more about how to make linux accessible to other people instead.
[01:56] <micahg> hedkandi: if you think the process needs help, then help make it better
[01:56] <hedkandi> I am not in a position to fix it myself because I know nothing about the topic
[01:56] <hedkandi> obviously
[01:56] <micahg> then how do you know there's a problem?
[01:56] <zooko> hedkandi: you sound frustrated.
[01:56] <hedkandi> this "oh it's up to YOU to solve the problem" is a cop-out
[01:57] <zooko> I sympathize with the frustration of trying to do something technical and finding the docs inadequate.
[01:57] <hedkandi> it's just a way of absolving yourselves of the responsibility
[01:57] <micahg> not up to you, but most of the people here are volunteers
[01:57] <hedkandi> right well I'm going to bed
[01:57] <hedkandi> bye
[01:58] <micahg> ugh
[01:58] <micahg> that frustrates me
[01:58] <ajmitch> what, the complete lack of specific details in that whine?
[01:59] <micahg> the arrogance that the user needs to be served, that because something already exists, it must be made perfect by the people who made it
[02:00] <micahg> I think it's cool that people can jump in and help
[02:00] <micahg> that's one of the reasons I like being a part of the ubuntu community
[02:02] <micahg> over the past few days I had a small glimpse into the amount of work that goes into packaging
[02:02] <ajmitch> and because of that, I recognise that I've lost my right to complain about karmic by not helping improve it :)
[02:02] <micahg> and I think it's amazing what the MOTUs do
[02:05] <directhex> he didn't even say which docs he feels sucks
[02:05] <directhex> so...
[02:08] <ajmitch> probably the packaging guide
[02:08] <ajmitch> but we don't know
[02:14]  * Yagisan is suddenly reminded why he would violate the CoC should he ever do "support" again for free
[02:18] <directhex> i quit #debian many years ago to avoid high blood pressure
[02:20] <Yagisan> I can imagine
[02:21] <Yagisan> it's the sense of entitlement that is most frustrating
[02:21]  * ScottK has a consulting rate for sense of entitlement
[02:22] <Yagisan> it's easier to put up with when you get financially compensated, but most of these people are too cheep for that
[02:25] <zul> ajmitch: blah
[02:25]  * Yagisan wonders if he should upgrade or fresh install in 2 days
[02:41] <ScottK> zul: Would you mind pastebining me your opennebula diff?
[02:42] <ScottK> Nevermind
[02:43] <ScottK> zul: Ack.  Looks good.  Thanks.
[03:57] <ScottK> So I'm starting to like debhelper 7.
[03:57] <ari-tczew> why?
[03:58] <ScottK> I spent an hour trying to coax pyproj into building with it's cdbs rules and gave it up as impossible.  In 5 minutes I had it building with debhelper 7.
[04:01] <ScottK> Nice readable docs too.  I didn't have to grep the source to figure stuff out http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/debhelper.html
[04:01] <ari-tczew> While kamic development cycle I saw that developers don't like debhelper 7, because it breaks languages or something...
[04:02] <StevenK> ScottK: Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
[04:02] <ScottK> ari-tczew: I think people are still getting used to it because it's new.
[04:02] <ari-tczew> e.g. notify-osd
[04:03] <ScottK> No idea about that.
[04:04] <ScottK> Personally, I've stayed away from it because I wasn't having any problems I thought it would solve.
[04:04] <ScottK> Until tonight.
[04:05] <ari-tczew> ScottK: are you working 24h ?
[04:05] <StevenK> ScottK: But cdbs is a problem? :-)
[04:05] <ScottK> Not quite.
[04:05] <ScottK> StevenK: IME it works fine for many common use cases.  It's when you need to deviate from that that the magic gets scary and dark.
[04:06] <StevenK> ScottK: Exactly. If you have a simple ./configure, make, make install, it's fine. But debhelper 7 even makes that case simple
[04:06] <ScottK> Agreed.
[04:07] <ScottK> If I was starting a package from scratch now, I'd use dh, but until tonight I've had no case for doing the work to convert an existing package.
[04:08] <StevenK> ScottK: I've ripped yada out of packages, and switched to db
[04:08] <StevenK> *dh
[04:08] <ScottK> Well yada, sure.
[04:09] <ajmitch> StevenK: have you managed to purge yada from the archive yet?
[04:10] <StevenK> ajmitch: No. :-(
[04:10] <StevenK> There's still around 20 source packages that use it.
[04:10] <StevenK> Hobbsee reckons we should just remove it and let those 20 break.
[04:11] <ajmitch> I agree
[04:11] <ajmitch> I don't recognise any of those 20 packages, I'm sure they're not important
[04:13]  * StevenK ponders a death-to-yada spec
[04:14] <ScottK> +1
[04:14] <JanC> hm, how to find those 20? ;)
[04:15] <StevenK> checkrdepends
[04:15] <ScottK> I'm thinking about a spec to have up stop carrying binaries forward from old releases.  Once the toolchain is in place, rebuild the entire archive and remove any binaries that fail.
[04:15] <ScottK> That way any binaries we release with we know built at least once during the cycle.
[04:16] <StevenK> http://paste.ubuntu.com/302525/
[04:16] <lifeless> ScottK: +1
[04:16] <zooko> I really like the fact that libcrypto++ runs its self-tests when built, which means that I don't have to worry about a broken one (due to the apparently bug in the new binutils) showing up in Ubuntu.
[04:16] <ScottK> More self tests would be good.
[04:17] <zooko> It makes me fantasize about the Test Driven Operating System, where no upgrade is allowed if it doesn't pass its own unit tests strictly better than the previous version did.
[04:17] <ScottK> The bigger problem now though is the ~10% of the archive we can't build.
[04:17] <StevenK> Some of the packages in that list are ... special
[04:17] <ScottK> StevenK: They are.  I did a fair number of removals this time around too (thanks for the help on kaffe, btw).
[04:17] <micahg> ScottK: are FTBFS fixes allowed after release?
[04:17] <ScottK> micahg: Yes.
[04:17] <ajmitch> micahg: normal SRU rules
[04:19] <JanC> StevenK: I guess this is 'reverse-build-depends' in karmic?
[04:22] <StevenK> JanC: They are the packages that Build-Depends in yada in Karmic
[04:23] <dtchen> ugh, another item queued for the long 10.04 fixing
[04:24] <ajmitch> dtchen: bug 433683 can be set as fix released since the fix is in the linux-backports-modules-alsa package?
[04:27] <dtchen> ajmitch: nah, not until 10.04 gets 2.6.3x, x>=2. OTOH, I've added a linux-backports-modules-2.6.31 task and marked it Fix Released
[04:28] <ajmitch> ok, thought I'd check since the alsa modules package isn't particularly obvious
[04:29] <ajmitch> but the fix works nicely, it's good to be able to listen to music in the office again :)
[04:29] <dtchen> yeah, I'm happy l-b-m gained the 20091012 snapshot
[04:29] <dtchen> it resolves a crackload of regressions
[04:34] <ScottK> BTW, we're open for business for Universe uploads for another 7 and a half hours ...
[04:35] <porthose> ScottK, bug #461656
[04:35] <ScottK> Looking
[04:45] <ScottK> porthose: Uploaded.  Thank you.
[04:46] <porthose> ScottK, ty :)
[04:47] <ScottK> porthose: I did edit your debian/changelog slightly.  Have a look at that after it's in.
[04:47] <porthose> ScottK,  Ok, was it not verbose enough?
[04:48] <ScottK> porthose: No,  The regex for auto bug closing has a space in it.  Also don't go over 79 characters in a line.
[04:48] <porthose> Oh ok
[05:04] <wrapster> guys no matter what i try im still not going any further than http://pastie.org/670439
[05:05] <wrapster> did everything I know... can anyone help me pls..
[05:05] <wrapster> according to geser, idea i tried running individual make, even then I end up with this only.
[05:05] <wrapster> damn libnss
[05:05] <wrapster> pls help folks
[05:07] <JanC> is that on Solaris or what?
[05:08] <wrapster> JanC: thats on nexenta: solaris kernel+ ubuntu userland
[05:09] <fabrice_sp> wrapster, not sure you will receive help today: this is the last day for last bugfixing uploads
[05:10]  * ScottK will be back after some sleep to review more stuff.
[05:10] <wrapster> fabrice_sp: oh man..
[05:10] <wrapster> ok.. if you ppl find some time pls look into this as well..
[05:10] <wrapster> thanks anyway guys.
[05:33] <fabrice_sp> Any motu release to have a look at http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/302554/ (const char * invalid conversion)
[05:48] <fabrice_sp> ScottK, I've just uploaded kmchart, linked to the previous pastebin
[06:45] <dholbach> good morning
[08:56] <fabrice_sp> Hi. Any motu-release to have a look at bug #461696?
[08:56] <fabrice_sp> this fixes a FTBFS
[09:01] <wrapster> folks finally i built the libnss 64bit version...
[09:02] <wrapster> working fine.. if anyone is free let me know.. I have a few queries (not with pkging) to now write a wrapper for this...
[09:28] <ScottK> fabrice_sp: Looks good.  Thanks.
[09:29] <fabrice_sp> thanks ScottK :-)
[09:50] <dstansby> Hi guys, just wondering if anyone could elighten me as to why I'm getting the following error whilst trying to build a package:
[09:50] <dstansby> Error: Target "linux", package "rtl" not found
[09:50] <dstansby> make: *** [configure-stamp] Error 1
[09:50] <dstansby> dpkg-buildpackage: error: fakeroot debian/rules clean gave error exit status 2
[09:57] <sebner> ScottK: I ignored my alarm clock, slept until now (missed maths) ... anything to sponsor for me? ^^
[09:59] <ScottK> sebner: Not that I know of.
[09:59] <directhex> sebner, can you beat monobristol.git with a stick until allpackages.git works for me?
[10:01] <sebner> directhex: looking
[10:02] <ScottK> I'm off for awhile, but ought to be able to make an appearance shortly before we lock things down.
[10:03] <sebner> directhex: wondering what's broken there (again)
[10:43] <ogra> ScottK, hrm, your upload broke usb-imagewriter
[11:34] <Q-FUNK> howdy! what is the procedure for getting a package approved to ${LTS}-backports ?
[11:35] <Q-FUNK> I'm refering to the request in LP bug #237224 which I think is reasonable.
[11:35] <Q-FUNK> the delta between what's in Hardy and current upstream is minimal.
[11:45] <wrapster> why does something like this not work? how can i resolve it?
[11:45] <wrapster> http://pastie.org/671432
[11:46] <maco> can someone hit the retry button on maven-repository-builder? it was ftbfs but the dependency issue is fixed so it should build now
[11:47] <maco> er oh... wait it failed to build on i386...
[11:50] <randomaction> !backports | Q-FUNK
[11:54] <maco> ok yeah, i think maven-repository-builder should build now
[11:54] <ScottK> ogra: OK.  Ack for the revert.
[12:00] <ogra> ScottK, gracias
[12:03] <slytherin> maco: it failed again
[12:03] <maco> i wonder if it failed in the same way
[12:04] <slytherin> taht only you can tell.
[12:04] <maco> the fail was a missing dependency that is definitely in the repos
[12:05] <ScottK> Would someone with ops please make /topic say we are FROZEN for Karmic.
[12:05] <slytherin> This time it is MethodNotFoundException
[12:05] <ScottK> It's SRU material now.
[12:06] <maco> slytherin: only on i386, right? just like before?
[12:06] <maco> it builds in a amd64 pbuilder
[12:06] <slytherin> maco: It is arch:all package. It will be built only on i386.
[12:06] <maco> oh ok
[12:28] <dtchen> maco: create an i386 {s,}chroot and recreate the issue
[14:30] <bddebian> Heya gang
[14:31] <iulian> Hi bddebian.
[14:31] <bddebian> Heya iulian
[14:45] <sebner> huhu bddebian iulian
[14:46] <iulian> Hey sebner.
[14:57] <bdrung_> iulian, nhandler, ScottK, sistpoty|work: we did not manage to update eclipse-cdt. so it's better to remove it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eclipse-cdt/+bug/461995
[14:58] <sistpoty|work> bdrung_: what about duing an sru?
[14:58] <iulian> bdrung_: Is it really not needed anymore?
[15:00] <bdrung_> sistpoty|work: this would be an solution. but for eclipse-cdt we need some more packages (eclipse-mylyn, eclipse-emf, eclipse-rse) which are not in the archive
[15:00] <sistpoty|work> bdrung_: ah, ok, I guess removal seems like the better choice then
[15:00] <bdrung_> iulian: there are users of eclipse-cdt, but the package in the archive is totally outdated and does not work.
[15:01] <sistpoty|work> (or at least removing the binaries)
[15:01] <bdrung_> removing the binaries would be sufficient
[15:01] <bdrung_> with the current eclipse package you can install plugins as user (stored in ~/.eclipse).
[15:04] <bdrung_> iulian, nhandler, ScottK, sistpoty|work: second question: will the bugfix for bug 448337 be accepted?
[15:05] <sebner> huhu sistpoty|work , I missed you desperatly yesterday :P
[15:05] <sistpoty|work> hi sebner
[15:05] <sistpoty|work> sebner: I was busy at work :(
[15:05] <sebner> heh
[15:05] <sebner> np
[15:08] <sistpoty|work> bdrung_: I assume it can go through via SRU
[15:09] <bdrung_> k
[15:10]  * hyperair scratches head. where did all my wine shortcuts go?
[15:10] <hyperair> it seems winemenubuilder blew them away =.=
[15:11] <sebner> heh, huhu hyperair
[15:11] <hyperair> damn weird =\
[15:11] <hyperair> i mean all i did was replace a wined3d.dll..
[15:12] <hyperair> and do some tweaks with winetools. wait, that must have done it
[17:29] <konstantin> hi! i like to code, i like ubuntu, linux, c++, c and so on ... couple of minutes ago i watched MOTU: Common Questions Asked on youtube. how can i get into this?
[17:31] <dholbach> hey konstantin
[17:31] <konstantin> hi :)
[17:31] <dholbach> check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted and the pages linked from there
[17:31] <dholbach> there should be a bunch of good information like the packaging guide, the packaging recipes, information about ubuntu development processes and stuff and links to more videos
[17:32] <dholbach> karmic is almost "in the bag" now, but Lucid could be YOUR release cycle :)
[17:33] <maco> konstantin: welcome :)
[17:33] <konstantin> i expected you guys to trash me *haha
[17:33] <maco> (go check out his other vids of howtos...very useful!)
[17:34] <konstantin> very nice in here
[17:34] <maco> that wouldnt be very ubuntu :P
[17:35] <dholbach> konstantin: and be sure to ask your questions in here - we appreciate you helping out
[17:36] <konstantin> wow! Packaging Training is this Thursday at 7 am in switzerland that's early
[17:38] <konstantin> i try to join you then
[17:39] <dholbach> konstantin: I don't think there's a session planned atm
[17:39] <dholbach> we're figuring out something there
[17:39] <konstantin> cool
[17:56] <mpt> Does apt treat "Breaks:" without a less-than clause identically to "Conflicts:"?
[18:00] <hyperair> can someone here run `dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE`?
[18:01] <hyperair> someone here running 32-bit ubuntu
[18:04] <randomaction> hyperair: i486-linux-gnu
[18:04] <hyperair> alright thanks
[18:04] <randomaction> hyperair: (karmic i386)
[18:04] <hyperair> thanks.
[18:04] <hyperair> so it's not my chroot acting weird
[18:05] <hyperair> so how do i go about getting the $host as autotools would detect it?
[18:05] <hyperair> from debian/rules, that is
[18:22] <konstantin> does anybody know why karmic doesn't ship with pidgin?
[18:23] <jdong> konstantin: it was decided to ship Telepathy instead
[18:24] <konstantin> because it uses D-Bus?
[18:25] <joaopinto> konstantin, because empathy was selected as the default
[18:25] <joaopinto> for multiple reasons, gnome integration being one of them
[18:26] <ari-tczew> It's not the time for wondering "why?"
[18:26] <konstantin> oh ok ... just trying to figure out how to seek out fitting software
[18:26] <CarlFK> is there a script to make a  dpatch-run .patch file using cvs diff?
[18:57] <fabrice_sp> CarlFK, you can use dpatch-edit-patch <patch-name> and apply the diff inside the shell
[19:03] <ari-tczew> CarlFK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/303023/
[19:39]  * kees joins the rest of motu and hugs ScottK too :)
[19:43] <jcastro> omg kittens!
[19:53]  * quadrispro gives ScottK an hug and a beer
[19:55]  * micahg isn't a MOTU but wants to give ScottK a hug anyways :)
[20:14] <CarlFK> fabrice_sp: ari-tczew - thanks
[20:15] <fabrice_sp> yw
[20:30] <fabrice_sp> 86 packages are not installable because of unmets. It's better than Intrepid, if I remember correctly
[20:31] <fabrice_sp> Better than Jaunty, I wanted to say
[21:20] <micahg> \sh: is there a reason that zend framework doesn't install dojo?
[21:36] <Buuntu> hi, can I request a mentor here?
[21:39] <maco> Buuntu: asking on the mailing list might work better :)
[21:40] <Buuntu> maco: link?
[21:40] <maco> Buuntu: universe is already frozen for karmic, so i think things'll be a little calm til lucid opens up
[21:40]  * maco looks
[21:41] <porthose>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Junior_Contributor
[21:41] <dtchen> ubuntu-motu@lists
[21:41] <maco> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
[21:41] <Buuntu> thanks
[21:41]  * maco goes to read the wiki link
[21:41] <maco> never saw that before
[22:08] <zooko> #l
[22:08] <zooko> oops